Also I should point out that this "NEW EXCITING INNOVATIVE ENGINE DESIGN!!!11111" he was describing is a pretty ordinary design for large 2-stroke diesels for like the past 50 years already. Google EMD 710 series or Kolomna 11D45 for example.
Not to even mention GM who built millions of 2stroke supercharged Diesel engines which also had exhausts valves. The concept of a superchargers 2stroke is nothing new.
That 130hp is very downplayed and they could get much, much more. In the 90’s and early 00’s the 500cc GP bikes were pushing 190-200hp. From half a litre! Just imagine what F1 could do
@@seco000 Listen, if they want to put a hellcat engine in a caravan and sell it to folks from Alabama and Florida (because lets be honest, who else would buy it?), who are you to stop them?
Two stokes really shine in engines under 1L where the are very common and often make around 200hp/L naturally asperated. They are also reslly common with cvt transmissions to keep them in the powerband. It would be interesting to see if car manucaturers ever decide to make them again.
Two strokes only smelt like that because they were burning oil, Castrol R is recognisable from miles away, these new engines won't be burning oil in the compression chamber,not unless something goes wrong anyway.
@@diegoaponte8512 company's like Yamaha have worked with car company's to develop engines and engines components so to see a bike company start building race engines is pretty likely if not already being done
@@6door6four96 i do believe yamaha designed the V8 used in the Volvo XC90, which trickled down into some of the hot and nasty Morgan supercars. they also did the tiny V8 in ford's SHO for a little while, and that was a pretty zippy little engine
Dry sump lubrication would also be a beneficial addition, cutting windage loses and allowing the engine to run even cleaner. I once owned a 3 cylinder Kawasaki H2 750cc 2-stroke motorcycle and I can assure you, there was no lack of torque with that little beast.
No what you call engineering is Dodge/Chrysler getting only 400bhp from an 8L engine in the 2000 Viper. Amazing (I'm being sarcastic).And then Mitsubishi got the same from a 2L engine 4 years later.
@@sukhdevr3489 I would assume these two engines have a very different set of pros and cons. However, I am in no way trying to insinuate that you are incorrect.
Enzo Ferrari and Aurelio Lampredi also tried to design a 2 cylinder 2.5 liter engine in 1955 for Grand prix racing, but the crankshaft kept shaking itself apart. It was called the Tipo 116.
2T Principle with exhaust valves When the all-round transfer ports open, the valves must also be opened so that the burnt gas can be flushed out. The transfer and exhaust timing strongly depends on the pressure generated by the supercharger. The work load that stops in a normal 2t as soon as the exhaust opens, continues here until the opening of the transfer ports. I see that this flush is not yet sufficiently optimal because with 430 hp of power it lags behind the approx. 730 hp of the Aprilia RSA level in 2007. The fact that the crankshaft is inhibited by the oil is also a loss, but that cannot be so high. Perhaps we should conclude that this was only the beginning of a new design and that it should have been further developed.
Could see the advances in gearboxes, especially in quantity of gears versus size and weight and speed of change being an enabler for this. A 10 or 12 speed gearbox would negate any low torque or narrow power band issues. Couple this with a hybrid electrical system like KERS to torque fill during the gear changes and at low RPM and you could have a mega package that I supposed isn't that different to current F1 and LMP1 engineering with their small displacement and high revving hybrid power units.
bmw 1.6litre 4 cyl race cars made 800hp in the 80s...but they lasted only about 1000miles..you can squeeze power out of tiny engines but they tend to have a very short service life
@@monoracer_ Its a pure race engine but for endurance racing. So driving it normally would probably fine as it doesnt wear as much as full throttle for many hours. But for a road engine they would probably make it less "racey" and more street suited.
Not sure that engine would cut the mustard in a bike nowadays, with only 130bhp at 1.3litres. It will be interesting to see, if 2 strokes can cover the emission requirements, before the 'ECO' brigade take all our fun away.
Did you see the size of that thing? A "small" engine by car standards is massive by motorcycle standards. A modern 999cc superbike engine makes about 200hp and weights like 100lbs.
Great video ! I oftenly wonder why 2 strokes engines aren't made anymore, technology has evolved and I was sure it would doable. So thanks for this explanations and the little history lesson. And as always, I love your accent
Manufacturers are having trouble meeting the regulations with 4 strokes let alone 2 strokes, and most will have given up on major IC engine development years ago when the legislation started coming in to force electric car sales, to my knowledge both Volvo and Mercedes have stated they stopped working on any new IC engines for their range of cars and light vans and i'm sure most manufacturers are the same.
F1 and hybrids should move to jet engine as a generator to batteries/electric motors! Develop new technologies, new renewable jet fuels for aviation, sounds awesome...
Another thing is there'll be less rotational mass to spool up (missing one cam at least even with exhaust valves) so it should be a lot more snappy and rev happy. Once they put the other side on too the rotating of the crank etc is more or less already taken care of in the first 130hp so the second 130hp would be with almost no cost
I'm not sure this would be worth it to F1, with solenoid valve systems coming to the forefront. The addition of individual cylinder valve timing in F1 would be a monumental boon as it could be the savior of some very expensive engines, not to mention allowing thermal control of individual cylinders. Being able to regulate the valve timing based on individual cylinder oxygen sensor, and exhaust gas temperatures could really help.
Those 3 points made around 2:49 are incorrect... 2T's run cooler then 4T due to less rotating mass and moving components, 2ndly 2T can run at any powerband you want. A typical 125cc 2T does have a narrow power and but if you have ridden anything bigger you will know they tend to open up and become torque monsters with low end grunt, chunky mid range and a tight powerband up top like my TM300EN 2T is and all 500 2Ts are. They are torque monsters that are mistakenly thought of only producing horsepower. In the big 700cc 2T Maico they are almost all torque leading up to the powerband which hits you with the HP.
i would imagine direct injection technology is what was needed to gain the effeciencies. but like with the opposed piston engines cylinder oil control is still a problem with ports in the wall.
The foggy, a Ferrari? Interesting. I seem to recall hearing of Ferrari 3 cylinder work, and several stillborn collaborations with various manufacturers on unique concepts.
In general terms, 2 strokes avg. about 30% more peak hp/unit of displacement, while requiring about 30% fewer parts...That really crazy if you think about it.
The Rotax 850cc E-tec TURBO DI 2 cylinder makes 165HP in consumer form....And keeps making that HP at altitude. It also weighs less than that Ferrari boat anchor from the 90's. It uses computerized lubrication and fuel delivery.
This is genius. Make it a V12, that’s 860hp. Keep the MGU-K/H, which supplies additional hp and bonus torque. So we got V12s, but reliable, high rev sound, and road application for the V3 on Fiat/Chrysler economy cars, V6 on Alfas and SUVs. Everybody wins!
Ferrari: we're so cool, we made a supercharged 2-stroke Detroit Diesel: aw thats cute. we made single up to 16 cyl 2-stroke supercharged and sometimes also turbocharged 2-stroke diesels.
Including 3 53 which naturally are supercharged and say 6 v71 again supercharged as they cant work without it 16v92 twin turbo and twin charged find them in generators etc.
So essentially what they did was the same thing General Motors did back in the 1930's with the Detroit Diesel, except Ferrari did it with a gas engine. It might actually work if they turbocharged it and used ceramic composite pistons to offset the increased combustion temps. Could be interesting.😉 They'll definitely need to go with 4 valves per cylinder like the Detroit to reduce overall sprung valve weight and allow it to rev higher.
It's a gasoline Detroit diesel pretty much, ive always wanted to do a engine like this but I guess Ferrari had the idea years before I was even born lol
Car bloke "Nasty blue smoke"
Bike bloke "Smells like childhood dreams"
NITRO!!
I drive a 30 year old 50cc gdr bike and it smells like motoring heaven
Nothing quite like a fresh cup of coffee while the old mx bike warms up.
Mmmmmm Castrol R....!
2t mx bikes
The biggest engines in the world are actually 2-stroke albeit diesel.
The Detroit Diesel 12V71 is one of my favorite sounding engines of all time. ruclips.net/video/kRziS6C3i1Q/видео.html
And so are the smallest, looking at Dirt bikes, and some lawn equipment.
@@Gigitygigity24 gotta love those old Detroit screamers, 1,000 rpms sounds like 4 grand.
Yuk, diesel
Also I should point out that this "NEW EXCITING INNOVATIVE ENGINE DESIGN!!!11111" he was describing is a pretty ordinary design for large 2-stroke diesels for like the past 50 years already. Google EMD 710 series or Kolomna 11D45 for example.
"not much torque"
500cc two strokes: What ?
yea and that only have 1 cylinder😅
500cc 2 strokes can kickass a 1000cc 4 strokes around tight corners ..their powers peak at high rpm phenomenally..
I'm getting a 2001 cr500 next week very excited
@@mainadmin9432 congratulations
@@fidelcatsro6948 thankyou
Seems a lot like a spark ignition version of the compression ignition Detroit Diesel engine.
500 GP bikes were pushing close 190 bhp back in the day.
Bc it is SI DD.
I was about to say it looks a lot like an old Detroit.
@@KI4HOK a screaming jimmy! those were great fun to work on AND drive
There was an test version of the NS500R with about 220whp
And the torque was 100 Nm. So that two strokes has low torque is totally wrong.
Koenigsegg: "interesting"
Not to even mention GM who built millions of 2stroke supercharged Diesel engines which also had exhausts valves. The concept of a superchargers 2stroke is nothing new.
Koenigsegg's creations haven't really found commercial uses.
@@ishkaranbrar313 Qoros 3 has the freevalve system too
@Silently Sceptical Their so called "innovations" that are supposed to change the car world forever
@@ishkaranbrar313 not yet but I think we might start to see free valves pretty soon..
That 130hp is very downplayed and they could get much, much more. In the 90’s and early 00’s the 500cc GP bikes were pushing 190-200hp. From half a litre! Just imagine what F1 could do
yeah Ferrari should have consulted Yamaha and Suzuki about these..
@@fidelcatsro6948 or me l have some crazy thoughts running wild for many years.
@@pieterbezuidenhout2741 i know...im trying to make ufo propulsion engine to defy gravity altogether
It was 216 HP actually, 160 per litre
@@GiorGiiTV this was in the late 90's too. Thats insane!
I realy realy realy realy realy realy would love to see more modern twostrokes being produced nowadays! This could be the Renaissance for ICE's 😍
That Campervan Challenge from Old Top Gear.
Rip Jeremy's Citroen Grand Design
Well, at least he had an ice cream
Don't forget it toppled overnight by a wind 😂
And shouldnt richards land rover be on fire? Lol
What was the red car guys?
@@Mich_-mu7fz Lotus Esprit
4:13 *lovely blue smoke
“Ferrari hasn’t made a v6 in years”
Laughs in giulia quadrifoglio
What is the current Ferrari F1 engine then?
MunroM84 hahahahha
@MunroM84 It's an F154 engine... Wouldn't have the Ferrari engine code if it wasn't one
@MunroM84 Is a F1 car not a car then 'Mr Plank'?
@@mikeb3172 Don't worry Mike, MunroM84's Mommy probably doesn't let him watch proper racing.
Mazda should persue this tech because they always the weird one goes against all of other manufacturer's direction.
or dodge
Rumours said that Mazda is currently develop a liquid piston rotary engine
@@muhammadnurakbar4188 rumors are rumors for now
@@seco000 Listen, if they want to put a hellcat engine in a caravan and sell it to folks from Alabama and Florida (because lets be honest, who else would buy it?), who are you to stop them?
4:25 Your big end has gone mate.
Two stokes really shine in engines under 1L where the are very common and often make around 200hp/L naturally asperated. They are also reslly common with cvt transmissions to keep them in the powerband. It would be interesting to see if car manucaturers ever decide to make them again.
2-Stroke in F1? That'll give a nice smell on the track...😉
Two strokes only smelt like that because they were burning oil, Castrol R is recognisable from miles away, these new engines won't be burning oil in the compression chamber,not unless something goes wrong anyway.
@@popuptoaster Yes, and I preferred the smell of the oils with Nitro in them...!!
why is drivetribe not verified yet?
also, nice shirt
Undefined Octopus they can have ads on there vids
Richard “It enormous”
Jeremy “ Its absolutely superb”
That shirt is just amazing
Jeremy: *gasp* AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Jeremy licks icecream , and his big leaning tower goes 0 to 100 from a cliff in the background :D
Perhaps you may see bike engine manufacturers coming to F1.
Again. e.g. Yamaha and Honda
If not wrong in the past yamaha have made engine for f1 team.
Unlikely as it may cost to much, but I like the idea. Honda is already there
@@diegoaponte8512 company's like Yamaha have worked with car company's to develop engines and engines components so to see a bike company start building race engines is pretty likely if not already being done
@@6door6four96 i do believe yamaha designed the V8 used in the Volvo XC90, which trickled down into some of the hot and nasty Morgan supercars. they also did the tiny V8 in ford's SHO for a little while, and that was a pretty zippy little engine
The 2 cycle engine has a bright future.
no it hasnt, its very sad. No one wants to invest so much money in development to create more environmentally friendly 2strokes
man i love your t-shirt
Dry sump lubrication would also be a beneficial addition, cutting windage loses and allowing the engine to run even cleaner. I once owned a 3 cylinder Kawasaki H2 750cc 2-stroke motorcycle and I can assure you, there was no lack of torque with that little beast.
Lol the snowmobile industry has naturally aspirated 2 strokes that make 160 up from 800cc.
rotax and polaris 850 cc engines makes about 165-175 hp
@@matsmannela9475 with direct injection and a turbo, I've seen built cat motors make 300 horse!
Add hybrid and kers technology using v configurations for packaging and handling reasons 500hp is reasonable from a v4
4:14 "nasty blue smoke" 😂 some people seem to like that nasty blue smoke
that would be FREEKIN AWESOME. I would love to see cars w/2-strokes. Excellent idea
I love the shirt, was one of my favourite episodes, the leaning towner of citroen lol
Now that's called Engineering!
No what you call engineering is Dodge/Chrysler getting only 400bhp from an 8L engine in the 2000 Viper. Amazing (I'm being sarcastic).And then Mitsubishi got the same from a 2L engine 4 years later.
Sukhdev R34 ok, so it’s both engineering then.
@@sukhdevr3489 I would assume these two engines have a very different set of pros and cons. However, I am in no way trying to insinuate that you are incorrect.
@@dawsdep yeah, still was pretty amazing from Mitsubishi.
Sukhdev R34 Agreed! 👍
Nasty blue smoke?
I love 2 strokes and I love the blue smoke
I have already seen that T-SHIRT . Those machines were brillant. Old times will be never forgotten.
The shirt is great. One if the best episodes
Gotta love engine knowledge videos
Ahhh, so miss my old Aprilia RS250! ;)
Do you miss the seizures?
I had a 125, 33bhp max biaggi chesterfield replica back in 96/97.....I’d love an RS250
Aprilia or cagiva hmm
Noticed an error at: 4:13. You said "nasty" when the correct term is "glorious"
Enzo Ferrari and Aurelio Lampredi also tried to design a 2 cylinder 2.5 liter engine in 1955 for Grand prix racing, but the crankshaft kept shaking itself apart. It was called the Tipo 116.
Some old Japanese engines for the 80s or 90s has same power or even more in production 3 cylinder cars than this engine. Thank for the video.
A 130bhp 1300cc supercharged engine would get laughed out of any motorcycle shop.
Great video as always! Love the t-shirt!!
Merci! Thanks from Québec Canada! Love this series!
Much like i said with the cosworth 3 cylinder, that engine needs to find its way into a hot hatch.
250hp audi A1 lol
Bring back lancia, make a new delta and put it in there
2T Principle with exhaust valves
When the all-round transfer ports open, the valves must also be opened so that the burnt gas can be flushed out. The transfer and exhaust timing strongly depends on the pressure generated by the supercharger. The work load that stops in a normal 2t as soon as the exhaust opens, continues here until the opening of the transfer ports.
I see that this flush is not yet sufficiently optimal because with 430 hp of power it lags behind the approx. 730 hp of the Aprilia RSA level in 2007. The fact that the crankshaft is inhibited by the oil is also a loss, but that cannot be so high. Perhaps we should conclude that this was only the beginning of a new design and that it should have been further developed.
Could see the advances in gearboxes, especially in quantity of gears versus size and weight and speed of change being an enabler for this. A 10 or 12 speed gearbox would negate any low torque or narrow power band issues. Couple this with a hybrid electrical system like KERS to torque fill during the gear changes and at low RPM and you could have a mega package that I supposed isn't that different to current F1 and LMP1 engineering with their small displacement and high revving hybrid power units.
Hmm only 216hp with a turbo? The Nissan ZEOD engine is a 3cyl 1,5l 4-stroke turbo with 400hp, and it weighs only 40kg.
Is this powerplant reliable enough for daily use? Just curious, no offence
@@monoracer_ Yeah brah, it lasts a whopping 5k kilometres!
Just kidding I'm waiting for the answer also
bmw 1.6litre 4 cyl race cars made 800hp in the 80s...but they lasted only about 1000miles..you can squeeze power out of tiny engines but they tend to have a very short service life
@@monoracer_ Its a pure race engine but for endurance racing. So driving it normally would probably fine as it doesnt wear as much as full throttle for many hours. But for a road engine they would probably make it less "racey" and more street suited.
this was tremendously interesting. Thanks!
Come on Ferrari, put that engine on two wheels!
Not sure that engine would cut the mustard in a bike nowadays, with only 130bhp at 1.3litres. It will be interesting to see, if 2 strokes can cover the emission requirements, before the 'ECO' brigade take all our fun away.
Did you see the size of that thing?
A "small" engine by car standards is massive by motorcycle standards. A modern 999cc superbike engine makes about 200hp and weights like 100lbs.
@@BigUriel The modern day superbike engine includes the gearbox and weighs around 100kg, not 100lbs.
ferrari replied via whatsapp: we cannot sell them for 1 million dollars..
1 have a 80’s yamaha 60hp outboard which is 3sylinder 2-stroke
i bet that has a cool sound
Napier Nomad. One of the best and most efficient ever. ;-)
I always thought 2 strokes could make double the power compared to similar sized 4 strokes.
they can
4:50 Gotta love the dank nugget posted up in front of the Ferrari logo!
That top gear shirt is awesome, I remember that episode
Lovely T-shirt!
That shirt is iconic
Cool shirt. Wondering if BBC is going to have something to say about it.
Great video ! I oftenly wonder why 2 strokes engines aren't made anymore, technology has evolved and I was sure it would doable. So thanks for this explanations and the little history lesson.
And as always, I love your accent
They're still made. Scooters, mopeds, chainsaws all still use 2 strokes.
Manufacturers are having trouble meeting the regulations with 4 strokes let alone 2 strokes, and most will have given up on major IC engine development years ago when the legislation started coming in to force electric car sales, to my knowledge both Volvo and Mercedes have stated they stopped working on any new IC engines for their range of cars and light vans and i'm sure most manufacturers are the same.
@@popuptoaster Heaven help us then!
F1 and hybrids should move to jet engine as a generator to batteries/electric motors! Develop new technologies, new renewable jet fuels for aviation, sounds awesome...
Another thing is there'll be less rotational mass to spool up (missing one cam at least even with exhaust valves) so it should be a lot more snappy and rev happy. Once they put the other side on too the rotating of the crank etc is more or less already taken care of in the first 130hp so the second 130hp would be with almost no cost
Cool shirt! Miss that leaning tower of Citroen
I'm not sure this would be worth it to F1, with solenoid valve systems coming to the forefront. The addition of individual cylinder valve timing in F1 would be a monumental boon as it could be the savior of some very expensive engines, not to mention allowing thermal control of individual cylinders. Being able to regulate the valve timing based on individual cylinder oxygen sensor, and exhaust gas temperatures could really help.
Maybe it’s me, but I think your blower is spinning backwards. Love the shirt
Detroit did it first. Old school tech from the late 30's.
Those 3 points made around 2:49 are incorrect... 2T's run cooler then 4T due to less rotating mass and moving components, 2ndly 2T can run at any powerband you want. A typical 125cc 2T does have a narrow power and but if you have ridden anything bigger you will know they tend to open up and become torque monsters with low end grunt, chunky mid range and a tight powerband up top like my TM300EN 2T is and all 500 2Ts are. They are torque monsters that are mistakenly thought of only producing horsepower. In the big 700cc 2T Maico they are almost all torque leading up to the powerband which hits you with the HP.
i would imagine direct injection technology is what was needed to gain the effeciencies.
but like with the opposed piston engines cylinder oil control is still a problem with ports in the wall.
It sounds like a genuine direction of development for a company NOT betting the farm on EVs.
Love the Top Gear shirt. “Hammer!” 🤣
Thanks lad! Such informative
You completely missed out how Ferrari made a 3 cylinder motorcycle engine for the Carl Fogarty FP1. (Although it was rebadged a Petronas)
The foggy, a Ferrari? Interesting. I seem to recall hearing of Ferrari 3 cylinder work, and several stillborn collaborations with various manufacturers on unique concepts.
Ring da da da ding ding ding.
Dude, your shirt is awesome!
Pat Symonds is correct about 2 strokes. Evinrude's latest outboards are quite impressive (Ecotech?).
In general terms, 2 strokes avg. about 30% more peak hp/unit of displacement, while requiring about 30% fewer parts...That really crazy if you think about it.
love the T Shirt , with the most hilarious TG episode to date ,love Jeremy's building built hover the Citroën CX :D
I always thought the higher the revs, the more energy gets wasted just stopping the pistons and turning them around.
Not really, energy is lost due to friction, wich does have to do with rpms Changin the direction of the pistons has nothing to do with it.
*Must have sounded a treat !*
The Rotax 850cc E-tec TURBO DI 2 cylinder makes 165HP in consumer form....And keeps making that HP at altitude. It also weighs less than that Ferrari boat anchor from the 90's. It uses computerized lubrication and fuel delivery.
What a magnificent little engine!
That T-shirt is awesome
This is genius. Make it a V12, that’s 860hp. Keep the MGU-K/H, which supplies additional hp and bonus torque. So we got V12s, but reliable, high rev sound, and road application for the V3 on Fiat/Chrysler economy cars, V6 on Alfas and SUVs. Everybody wins!
V3's aren't a thing on cars for a reason...
Love the shirt such memories
Loving that t shirt
Great vid!
Great shirt
Great episode
Funny you mention on smoke, as Ferrari F1 2018 V6 hybrid engine produce a high amount of smokes when it's started up
Ferrari: we're so cool, we made a supercharged 2-stroke
Detroit Diesel: aw thats cute. we made single up to 16 cyl 2-stroke supercharged and sometimes also turbocharged 2-stroke diesels.
Supercharged AND Turbocharged. Also Intercooled AND Aftercooled. At least the V8s I work on. Nonetheless very cool 😎!!!
Including 3 53 which naturally are supercharged and say 6 v71 again supercharged as they cant work without it
16v92 twin turbo and twin charged find them in generators etc.
Mike i want to have every single one of your t-shirts no matter the price
Cool video. Thanks
So essentially what they did was the same thing General Motors did back in the 1930's with the Detroit Diesel, except Ferrari did it with a gas engine. It might actually work if they turbocharged it and used ceramic composite pistons to offset the increased combustion temps. Could be interesting.😉 They'll definitely need to go with 4 valves per cylinder like the Detroit to reduce overall sprung valve weight and allow it to rev higher.
Love the top gear shirt!!!
Interesting Mike, thanks!
Here's a deeper dive on the subject ruclips.net/video/YSBsWel2HzI/видео.html
A Ferrari v4 would be insane in old 90s civic or some small old JDM car.
I hope turbocharged twostrokes make it into many production cars!!!
Great Video.
Where did you get that shirt? Love it😍
People say 2-strokes are a thing of the past. In my opinion they‘re a thing of the future as well.
Great video
Hey Drivetribe can you make a video on the Lotec Concept? It had 1000bhp weighed 1000kg and this was in the 80s/90s
C1000.
My favorite car. Period.
Not a concept, this car is street legal.
@@jareknowak8712 Nice.
Remember BP zoom 25 from the pump! Yes I still own my RM 250 Slingshot from the 90s yep just slow or go, with a clutch that makes you feel alive 😎
Meanwhile Ferrari is testing a V6
2-stroke FTW!!
Love the tshirt
*Is the shirt you're wearing a small or did you opt for the medium?*
best shirt ever.
It's a gasoline Detroit diesel pretty much, ive always wanted to do a engine like this but I guess Ferrari had the idea years before I was even born lol
There is still hope for 2-strok ,🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳
This was a very well made video. Thank you! Well done!