Book Talk: The Dark Forest 🌲 - cranking up the Sci-Fi (and the sexism)
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Hi everyone! Today, I'm sharing some of my thoughts about Cixin Liu's "The Dark Forest", part 2 of the "Rememberance of the Earth's Past"-trilogy. The first volume of that series is "The Three Body Problem", so spoiler warning for that book! 🤓
As always, I feel there would be so much more to talk about, but I hope you enjoy my take on this novel!
If you've read "The Dark Forest", let me know what you thought! 😃 I'm already looking forward to the last part of the trilogy...
also, minor spoiler warning for 11:21-11:45
It wasn't because of the shell, the particles could interfere with particle accelerators and ensure the results were always randomized so human could never truly advanced into other studies. That's why near the end of the book, the teacher from the past could still teach physics, nothing had changed over the hundreds of years.
Nice review! If you were curious about the part where Luo Ji "cast a spell" on a star, he didn't actually cast a spell on it. He transmitted the coordinates for the star into space as a means of testing the Dark Forest Theory. When the star was destroyed, it confirmed that advanced alien civilizations will wipe out any potentially inhabited star system as a law of cosmic sociological game theory
Thanks! And thank you for the clarification :)
Yes, correct. Thank you for clarifying it for everyone who might not have caught that. That point really was a CHILLING moment!
Exactly, advanced civilizations act like humans to roaches. Looking out for any signs of life to exterminate. It’s interesting take on cosmic existence.
@@storyworldling7444the fact you didn’t understand this and it took a man to explain is the reason why the the girl doomed humanity
The whole "bring me my dream girl it's part of the plan" bit pissed me off. Luo Ji's wife and child aren't people/characters they are just bargaining chips. The more I think about the writing of Zhuang Yan's "character" the more I want to scream.
Yep, totally agree with that. There was some stuff in there where I thought "...you can't be serious..." - but then the book was. The dream girl stuff was one of those things.
@@storyworldling7444 Now that I think about it, I realize that Zhuang Yan was literally 'fridged' (she was put into cryogenic hibernation) to progress Luo Ji's arch. It almost seems like a joke from the author.
She’s definitely my least favorite character throughout the whole trilogy
I have read many short stories of Cixin Liu since Chinese is my first language and I can tell you many of the short stories are misogynistic.
Not understanding the spell equals not understanding the concept of a the universe as a Black Forest. Also, it means not understanding the ending.
Yes!.
I personally don't think Cixin Liu is sexist considering the female characters in his other novels, particularly Ball Lightning.
Indeed, the book will be more sexist if you change the character gender:
- Luo Ji, a young woman who slept with different men every week, did not even bother to remember their names. To get rich, she made up cosmological sociology to grab attention. After she became a Wallfacer, she used her Wall Facer privileges to get her ideal man without a shred of concern for the fate of the world.
- Tyler, a middle-age woman with considerable government experience, attempted to recruit terrorists and encourage suicide attacks against the Trisolarans. Failing that, she attempted to resurrect the Japanese Zero fighters to launch suicide attacks. However, it turned our her real plan was to help ETO to destroy the human space fleet to gave her a chance to get close to the Trisolaran fleet;
- Hines, a married woman who exceled at neurosciences, attempted to fight the Trisolarans by improving human intelligence. However, it turned out her real plan had always been to secretly brainwash people by imprinting their mind with defeatism and escapism. This atrocious violation against free will was exposed by her husband and the imprinting technology was forever sealed;
- Rey Diaz, a strong-willed woman who led her people to victory against the U.S., became a Wallfacer despite strong Western opposition due to her human rights violation. With Wallface resources, she came up with a plan to destroy the entire solar system to provide deterrence to Triasolarans. She also planted a super bomb inside New York to safely return to her own country, where she was stoned to death;
- Zhang Beihai, a female officer who deeply believed in defeatism, murdered innocent scientists in cold blood. She then went to the future through hibernation and highjacked a spaceship, taking everyone onboard hostage. She was about to launch an attack on friendly ships but was killed in the process.
As you can see, it's not like women were portrayed in a negative manner, but all major characters were portrayed this way.
Not negative though. Diaz plan was superb if it was possible though.
I agree that all the characters have questionable morals, but I don't think the objection is about the negative portrayal of women, rather, I think it is under-representation and unrealistic, idealistic portrayal. (and unhealthy beauty standards)
It's not about whether they're evil. It's if they have agency of their own asides filling a function for male characters to operate off of, and if they get to be more than decorative. All those gender swapped characters would be fine.
As a Chinese woman, I totally agree with the misogyny part. I think the majority of Chinese men of Liu Cixin’s age are just extremely insensitive of this issue. Also in early 2000s(when the story was first published), the female quota “requirement” wasn’t really a thing in China at all. Even til this day it’s far from being seen as important as in some western countries. Hopefully it will get better but due to these social issues, I don’t think he deserves such criticism(to this day he hasn’t really have any blatant sexist speech, though I have to say a lot of (male) Three Body fans(fans of this series) in China are very adolescent-like misogynistic…). That said, I loved the series, I still remember how I finished the whole series in 2 days. I couldn’t put the book down and only slept for about 2 hours in 2 days.
Liu's "sexism" is based
I'm glad the Chinese still understand biology
Finally I find someone who isn’t a woke retard. Like damn. I just got done with Death’s End and not a single thing throughout the whole series was sexist. People are looking to be offended.
I agree about the apparent sexism. Given that diseases can be eliminated when people are cryogenically frozen, perhaps there are advanced eugenics or therapies to make select women slim and beautiful in the eyes of men? This was not addressed.
The book is so profound and mind blowinh, its easy to overlook just how awful the entire "perfect girl" plotline was
True but think about who gave the answer to Lou Ji, it was a woman. I think women played the ultimate role when she gave him the theory of cosmic sociology which eventually led him to “cast a spell” ie use the star to reflect intelligent signals off of it making it a target for advanced civilizations.
Wasn't the perfect girl line all about showing how selfish he is in the beginning
@@nlystsand to show his imagination
It’s fascistic garbage actually.
i have trouble reading from schizophrenia but years ago i had a light in my mind that loved reading. i like watching videos about books. actually I've read a lot. i enjoy playing some musical instruments now( i don't want to reveal which ones ). i also love to write and draw. i really don't think its coming back i let it go it was doing me harm forcing it. i have watched several of your videos on this series of books. i a!ways felt like i was a babe who wandered into a dark forest when he embarked on a spiritual journey alone. i have survived my illness 30 years mostly by cunning and imagination. i must think this is worth having the privilege of existence.
The woman issue was a flaw but ironically it helped tiedown parts of the story for points of view to rally around. These points of view were not wrong as much as the correct choices given the nature of the conflict. All imho.
Great review. I think you are absolutely correct about the sexism in this volume, as you were about the first book. It’s not just the way the few female characters are depicted, but the fact that every character that actually acts in any meaningful and rounded way is male. Ye Wenjie in book 1 could be seen as an exception, but as you say in that review, she is written to repeat the Biblical trope that woman is responsible for original sin. Sexism aside, the ideas and scope are indeed fascinating. Nonetheless the treatment of these ideas is often quite mechanical, and doesn’t give a feel for the real variety of approaches people come up with in trying to survive from their diverse positions in the world. The ending leaves the promise that Liu will break out of this bleak, unrealistically abstract logic in the third book, which I eagerly look forward to reading.
I completely agree!!!
Loved you talking about this. Thank you
Thank you!
I've now watched all three of your videos about this series and you perfectly describe the dichotomy of the trilogy being mind expanding and compulsively readable whilst also being sexist in a comically adolescent kind if way. Maybe comical is the wrong word because the gender role fixation of these novels are repellent.
But I've never read a trilogy so quickly or compulsively. I found myself 100% buying into the dark forest explanation of Fermi's Paradox. And certain set pieces were brilliantly constructed with perfectly pitched tension
A odd, moving, frustrating, satisfying reading experience
Thank you for your comment! It's kind of good to know that I'm not the only one feeling this way about the series because most people strongly disagree with me regarding my criticism for the books.
Even while reading I found it fascinating how the trilogy was both so satisfying and frustrating to read sometimes. I absolutely agree with you on how many different feelings the trilogy evokes.
Just finished the trilogy and I am liking your reviews. I found the books incredibly compelling and profound. The sexism in the third book really kind of sheads light on the absurdity of some of his societal speculation which felt... Ridiculous at times, but I don't think it detracts from the larger themes, which I can't wait to get your take on in the next video.
ALMOST liked it as much as the dune books. The ideas were more compelling, but the storytelling not as much in comparison to dune (which honestly isn't a fair comparison, just brought it up out of similar enjoyment to showcase my personal tastes)
I personally didn't struggle with the dark forest hypothesis in the way cixin liu explained it, but I did have to read it several times to understand the passage explaining it. But I was already familiar with the Fermi paradox. If anyone is confused by it, I recommend reading the short Wikipedia article about it, which properly explains it as well. I definitely think the book assumes you already know what the Fermi peradox is going in, and it's also being translated from Chinese so some might be overly confusing, so I get why some might be lost on this point.
No, the Trisolarans built the Sophon which is effectively a super computer within a proton, and they use it to interfere with high energy particle accelerators here in the solar system so that fundamental physics couldn't get any accurate results and hence stopping science advancing, rather than "building a shell around the earth".
No, Luo Ji is a college professor who doesn't really care about anything or anybody other than himself, a selfish asshole with some capability and knowledge, if you will. He has degrees in both sociology and astronomy, whether PhD or not isn't too clear, or maybe I missed that somewhere in the books.
The reason why Luo Ji got picked as one of the four Wallfacers, while being the only "commoner" among them, has been hinted in the book quite a few times, it's because the Trisolarans are trying to murder him, first the car accident at the beginning of the book, then the sniper assassination attempt outside the UN headquarter, and later the targeted gene virus. The exact reason hasn't been told in this book, but with a bit of thinking and careful reading, it's not that hard to realize why they want him dead, it's the conversation between him and Ye which led later to him discovering the Dark Forest theory, the universal rule to the universe we are in.
As for the sexism, I'm really having a hard time seeing why women can't be portrayed as attractive?
Spoilers in this comment.
Thank you for your comment. I know that my summary of the book's plot is flawed, which is partly because I never want to spoil anything, but in this case it was partly because I didn't remember all the details. So thank you for clearing some things up. I want to address the sexism thing, I'm sorry that this comment is super long and I hope it helps to explain my opinion.
I don't think women cannot be portrayed as attractive per se. My issue is that women here are hardly more than that. One woman doesn't even get a name (which kind of makes a point of how Luo Ji is an asshole), and she gets killed immediately after losing her sole purpose for the story. I'm sorry, I wasn't a fan of that. And we don't even get to know her name even when Luo Ji remembers it later. The secretary general of the UN is so slender that she almost seems incompetent, that was at least my impression of her description, and I am not sure why that would be important for me as a reader to know. Ok, the world at that time apparently needs someone less "refined" to convey a stronger sense of power (which gives me a stereotypical vibe of what "power" should look like), but she is so small and slender that she seems to be "tiny and helpless". And with f.ex. Luo Ji's literal dream woman, she is educated, but not too highly educated because it would "calcify" her. She should know enough to be "more sensitive to life and to the world" (because women with an education lower than a bachelor's degree are apparently not very sensitive to life and to the world?) - but too much knowledge would apparently be bad for her or her sensitivity? Those are things I had issues with in that book. The women are attractive - because of course women are slender and pretty and basically "as if a gust of wind could blow her away" - but they are discarded right after serving their main purpose, or they only exist to make the man guy's dream come true (and later to be bait to make him actually work), etc. So my issue is not the fact that they are attractive, but more the way I feel that the book emphasises it - it is either the most important information I need about a woman, or it is almost impeding her competence.
It's worth remembering where this book was written. Comparing it to western values is a waste of time. It's like a time capsule really.
YES. Having just finished the Netflix series I am still at awe how the creator of this book justifies mass killings as “us versus the enemy” & “our history is always right”.
To put it into geopolitical perspective the book is quite literally about Mr. “No bad happens to Uyghur in Xinjiang (East Turkistan)” Cixin Liu or to a broader extent chest thumping Chinese nationalists see the Western world i.e., USA.
At its core, the whole “dark forest rule” thing is nothing more than some regressive ideology about blah blah resources limited survival of the race this and that… It’s quite evil, actually.
FYI I have the same cultural background as the author of the book. I consider myself to have a pretty good understanding of what is going on inside his chinese incel mind. chinese society behaves similarly with the tri-solarian society and I have no confidence that creator of the book have reflected or even realized much (if at all) on the negatives of this mentality ingrained into his own creation. It’s just not that good. Compelling story? Yes! Morally bankrupt? Even MOAR! Just like the imaginary tri-solaris civilization, chinese history is civilizational collapse on repeat. Plus I’d like to point out how either “eastern philosophy” or “regressive ethno-nationalism” (depending on how u wanna look at it without being prejudiced) heavily emphasizes collective and tribal survival.
The “dark forest” at its core it’s just the author glamorizing his twisted, immoral, totalitarian world view. To some extent, he perfectly demonstrated everything on his worldview, unapologetically, and assumed this is inevitable for all existence in the universe including the human race. (WHICH IS NOT)
That’s why I think his work is dangerously flawed.
I have nothing good to say about 3 body. Schizophrenic fascistic propaganda branded as “sci-fi masterpiece”.
Netflix has done a decent job of salvaging the original material I gotta say, but I still despise its core philosophy. It’s explains a lot why countries like china and russia despises peace and cooperation with the rest of the world.
Sexist garbage. I wonder why all the main characters are chinese or white?🤔
If you didn't like the sexism in this book, it gets SO much worse in the 3rd, To the point where I couldn't even keep reading it. It was really disappointing because I really did enjoy the sci-fi.
You've kinda missed the whole book if you missed the "put a spell on a star" bit. We observe the Dark Forest play out so many times in this book too, invasion, spell, both escapist groups, droplet interference, and the final explanation. Almost everything else served explaining the Dark Forest too, like the revelation they made Liu Ji a wallfacer becaue he was the only assassination target.
I agree the perfect girl plot felt weak and forced, but it served the point of showing the absolute power of earth's governments via characters like the inspector: They even control love. We see the ETO manipulate love too, but only in a secretive way, and only by being lucky to be in the right place, while the "perfect girl" demonstrated almost absolute control.
Imho, the perfect girl plot connects with the Dark Forest by showing how we make people do whatever is really necessary for survival, so government -> inspector -> Zhuang Yan -> Liu Ji here, but ultimately they leave no room for deviation from the Dark Forest. In particular, we'd assume Liu Ji exterminates an alien species with his spell, like the Trislolarians did with their unfolding.
----
In the book, Cixin Liu claims the Dark Forest theory does not hold for one species living together on one planet, but this wins up an incredibly weak & unsupported statement by the standards elsewhere.
Also, we see the world destroyed by climate change, with nobody even willing to talk about the cannibalism or worse of the great ravine. So does Cixin Liu himself believe the Dark Forest does not apply on earth?
I think the answer is no.. I suspect Cixin Liu knows peak oil, climate change, and eco-system degradation are rapidly turning our world from non-zero sum oil drunken frat party of global trade into a zero sum horror, in which carrying capasity drops below a billion people and trade collapses, and with it the reasons for international collaboration.
We know Cixin Liu is fairly nationalistic, based upon his comments about some Chinese minorities. I suspect the book is an allegorical argument to the Chinese intelligentsia that China must win a nuclear war with the US in order for any significant amount of the Chinese population to survive climate change, etc.
I could be wrong.. Would he have let the book be translated into English if he really felt this way?
I thoroughly enjoyed this book, I couldn’t put it down once I started.
You are right about the end of the 2nd book. Because Liu didn't have plan to write the 3rd book at that time
Just on the question of sexism in sci-fi, I’d love to hear your thoughts on ‘The Expanse’ book and TV series written under the pen name James SA Corey. The first book ‘Leviathan Wakes’ has several familiar faults in the roles it gives female characters, though nothing as blatant as in Liu’s books. But it seems the (male) authors took feedback on board and wrote much better parts for women (and other historically oppressed groups) from book 2. It’s a fascinating vision of current society projected three centuries into the future, throughout the Solar System, and making a sort of First Contact in a very original way.
Alright, so, real quick….every character in every story doesn’t need to be placed on a pedestal and decided whether they represent or speak for X group or X group or what this means or what was the author trying to say. Sometimes it just is what it is. Luo himself is blatantly shown as aloof, immature, and having little thought for women. There are people like Luo who exist. That’s life. Luo is highly sexist for almost half his appearance in the book. And?
When you read the book you realize he would remain a loser and probably die as one if not for a few key women in his life who showed him something. The entire seed for cosmic sociology came from Ye. His girlfriend-ish-person (they didn’t honestly care about each other) showed him how to unlock more of his mind. He got to both those places mentally because of these women and it’s pointedly shown. Yeah, what he created ended up being a dream girl. Everyone has a dream girl or guy and I have no issue telling someone they’re a liar to their face if they claim otherwise. Luo had to realize what was missing from his life, why it was missing, and why it’s important. That includes some kind of positive relationship with a female, which he very obviously never had. The government used his daydreaming against him, and this arena of plot is not divorced at all from things which did actually go on in Communist China and even moreso Communist Russia. There is precedent in real life. She was working in agreement with the UN. They used her as a bargaining chip. I guess people missed the way Luo wised up and was shown how despicable it is to objectify by having his wife and child taken away from him. Would it also have been preferable if they had a fake-pretend marriage and relationship? At least that somehow turned out something beautiful. Do we not want those things? Do we not want to know that people can change? I mean, I’ve been around long enough to know the answer is NO. They lied like hell to me back in school when they told me people can change and make something positive of themselves and it’s fine. Everything taught is the opposite of today and how people actually act. They also said it was ok to not be ok but here I am having to walk on eggshells everywhere because I am neurodiverse but anyway.
Some of the other comments are showing a pretty glaring base understanding of a lot of stuff going on in the book as well and so I do feel like it’s safe to say some of this needs to be pointed out in this post.
PS - page 403. Ding Yi gets corrected when he wants a replacement for Xizi, thinking her incapable, the captain then points out that female officers make up half of their fleet and he needs to just deal with life as it is.
The book’s not sexist.
I might also advise that if y’all can’t get some depth and perspective on human emotions and behavior here, or if you think the very presence of this segment of the plot needs to be done away with, do me a huge favor and don’t ever read Twain, Morrison etc. Do not ever turn a single page of a writer who refused to hold back in their depictions of anything or anyone. Cause you will be in for it, believe me.
The creative arts are my religion, put some of these worries to good use and try not to blaspheme the only useful one there is.
This series is so controversial among readers, you either love it ir hate it. I have seen both positions taken by book tubers. I need to read it again.
Definitely, and I have to say that I wasn't aware of the controversy among people until a while after I had read the first volume. I think I'll also reread it at some point, but I'm definitely more on the love side of things, a lot of the series is really cool I think.
i have finally finished reading dark forrest and i m back to comment ! previous book i commented about ye wenjie being a strong female presence and all , but i m gonna agree that this one felt really really like only mens are around XD the ladies job are only to be "beautiful" lmao, but other than that i think the ending of that book was amazing. aside from the sexism in there i would like cixin liu to care a bit about character style during dialogs, as it quikly shows that 1 brain is behind both characters talking to eachother. i d still give this book a 8/10 , rly rly cool scifi can t wait for death s end
I very much agree with your review. While his depiction of science is realistic and fascinating, his depiction of society makes me wonder if he has ever actually met other humans or instead lived in complete isolation with only Ben Shapiro videos to educate himself on human interaction.
I appreciate your reviews on science fiction novels. I am listening to roadside picnic now. So…I’ll wait a bit to check out thoughts on your review video.
I am a Chinese woman. In my opinion, rather than considering sexism, I think Liu Cixin does not understand women. He is more like a scientific geek, swimming in the ocean of knowledge and imagination, and does not care about daily life and social interaction.
I appreciate his ideas and amount of knowledge, which help me to expand my brain, so his lack of characterization can be ignored
I think my experience as a man prevented me from realizing the sexism in the book and I'm honestly happy for it, i think it would have distracted me from the main focus of the story, who knows, maybe the fact that I didn't notice is a sign that cixin wasn't being sexist on purpose as he is a man too, I love the story, just finished this one, I start the 3rd today
man, these books are thick. I read both in four days. I stopped doing any work because I was so hooked. Almost lost my job
I hear you, I powered through all three super fast as well, there wasn't much else going on while I read these.
@@storyworldling7444 😂😂 This is why I am not touching the third book until I have time off. I can't risk it. Back to reading books I can put down in the meanwhile.
This book kinda blew my mind with the science stuff. I had a harder time getting through it than the first one, much because the protagonist is such an asshole, but I still really enjoyed the revelations and theories that he brought forth towards the end. It's becoming a trend of having women in these stories that are either evil, in the way, or just pretty - annoying to read. Some day I will read the third one, where I expect the science and the sexism to merge into an interesting, if awfully represented society.
Hi Simon I am on My 3rd Xmas new Year where i am reading the whole dark Forest Trilogy through Brilliant books that confirm my "Mankind Never Fails To Disappoint Me" theory and having read it through the 3 books the last 3 years in the Xmas New Year period and seeing what has happened with all this Covid stuff where so many bad decisions have been made by people in power and people 'Individually' and seeing the push for One World Power by so many organisations and how the police in so many country's have turned on The people then my Mankind Never Fails To Disappoint me theory is fully justified lol have just 100 pages to read and am shaking my head in disappointment as i know what is coming lol i talked about this Trilogy in a Rumble video jim1a2a Go Your Own Way To The Centre Of The Universe.! i made last night try and read the 3rd book Deaths End as it becomes clear why the storyline on Women's roles in the story becomes clear and how men become 'feminised' is not a good thing China actually is worried about Demasculation in their society even worrying about the influence of boy bands on young men making them femanine and soft..... Best Regards James
Think about who gave the answer to Lou Ji, it was a woman. I think woman played the ultimate role when she gave him the theory of cosmic sociology which led him to “cast a spell” ie use the star to reflect intelligent signals off of it making it a target for advanced civilizations.
Hmm that book cover is epic… the copy I bought looks cheap compared 😢
If you think this one is sexiest I suggest not you not to read the follow up.
I didn't see any sexism
Just started the Redemption of Time. Great ona so far
For me its acceptable that luo ji had an attraction to fragile women. People like what they like. But i agree the overall representation of women was severely lacking
Somehow I didn't get any negative impression towards women reading all three books. I actually respect Ye Wenjie as much as Ding Yi. Although the most amazing characters are all males (Da Shi, Luo Ji, Zhang Beihai, Ding Yi). As a male, Cheng Xin is surprisingly someone I would relate to the most though, so I find her relatable (but not necessarily likable). Overall, the male and female characters of this book simply show the multi-faceted human experiences that I can totally comprehend. There is no gripes against any one, only understanding.
Gotta leave men vs women out of science fiction. Just go into the series with a free view. Men are often portrayed as villians but rarely do you hear of us complaining when a women is the best looked after character. Free your mind of bias
A *womam
It is Liu Cixin , not Cixin Liu .According to Chinese custom, the surname comes first, and Liu is the surname of Liu Cixin.
So did you read as Luo Ji or Ji Luo? Because the audiobook narrator said Luo Ji
@@tyriqcleo5899 His surname is Luo, his name is Ji. Chinese names are sometimes one character, sometimes two. For names with one, we usually say the full name, if not it just sounds weird and archaic. Ji Luo sounds weird, as does Cixin Liu.
Everything was going agreeable until the female quota showed up. It's a chinese author. Stop shoving your culture into others.
One culture to rule them all.
Another great review!
I am on My 3rd Xmas new Year where i am reading the whole dark Forest Trilogy through Brilliant books that confirm my "Mankind Never Fails To Disappoint Me" theory and having read it through the 3 books the last 3 years in the Xmas New Year period and seeing what has happened with all this Covid stuff where so many bad decisions have been made by people in power and people 'Individually' and seeing the push for One World Power by so many organisations and how the police in so many country's have turned on The people then my Mankind Never Fails To Disappoint me theory is fully justified lol have just 100 pages to read and am shaking my head in disappointment as i know what is coming lol i talked about this Trilogy in a Rumble video jim1a2a Go Your Own Way To The Centre Of The Universe.! i made last night try and read the 3rd book Deaths End as it becomes clear why the storyline on Women's roles in the story becomes clear and how men become 'feminised' is not a good thing China actually is worried about Demasculation in their society even worrying about the influence of boy bands on young men making them femanine and soft..... Best Regards James
That's a shame about the sexism; maybe he'll sort that out in any future novels, if he's aware of the problem. I started readi it but I hope that problem doesn't mar it too much
I thought the novel was stil quite good, although I was more frustrated with some things while reading. Let's say, I wouldn't have ranted about the first one if I had already read the second one at that time. But I still thought it was really good overall.
@@storyworldling7444 I'm just getting back to it today, I think I may skip bits when it gets too misogynistic
@@markpaterson2053 Stay thirsty my boy
Women's representation means literally nothing to a Sci Fi story. The first book represents women amazingly well. Don't complain about how women would be in the apocalypse.
*More* "sexism"? I'm definitely reading this one now.
Funny. I shall laugh in 4-6 business days.
@@bloodyhell8201 I was only 25% joking
Woman screwed up the whole humanity (in the first book by sending a message to space), like Eve did in Garden of Eden
Its almost like the author grew up in a totally different culture and society. Hmm, how weird that it doesnt match or conform to your american views
If you think these books are "sexist", you're in a CULT.