The "hard sci-fi" aspects of the series were mind-blowing. Honesty, I don't even remember much about the characters or the finer details of the general plot. But the science and theories, especially his take on the Fermi Paradox, were what kept my attention and really changed the way I thought about things in that regard. Truly mind-bending ideas on a universal scale. The ending was so crazy, the entire series felt very dark and nihilistic (to me), but the ending felt like it had a glimmer of hope in it.
Characters are poorly developed? Dialogs are shallow? Who cares!? Sorry, but this book is not about characters! It’s about the overall experience. The characters are a detail. It is like a history book written by someone in the far future about the universe and its civilizations. Of course is a metaphor for our society where we can see each person as a civilization and the billions of people as the universe under the Dark Forest “law”. This is antagonistic to most religious views. People are mean! Survival is the highest goal. And we can extend this idea to the nature as a whole and the universe. Goodness exists only as a human ideal, and generally is inefficient and leads to ruin. On top of it, the way the Author connected actual scientific theories and knowledge into multiple plots and twists. Genius! A waste this to become only a Netflix series instead of a classic movie trilogy like Matrix or 2001!
Even though the characters aren’t the point the series as much as it’s ideas, I don’t feel like they’re bad at all. You don’t necessarily follow the same characters from beginning to end like say a Frodo so I can understand feeling disconnected from them. But I think they’re mostly cool and interesting. I wouldn’t even say they’re one dimensional, just not the focus.
So this is my favorite book in the trilogy by far. I loved all the concepts and whilst it might be unpopular opinion it is my fave because of the way it blew my mind. I especially enjoyed 3 moments: 1. When Luo Ji finishes his time as the sword wielder, he bows to the trisolarians. That scene, the respect shown between both sides was really cool. 2. I actively cheered when the ships hit the button. The story had been so bleak with humanity, that getting that small triumph made me cheer at home. 3. I loved that although humanity was not the most important society (no one is), the message at the end comes in part in human language, symbolizing that human society was important enough in the great scale of things.
the last part was exactly what Liu Cixin intended: he wanted to show that human beings made it to the end of the universe! And he was quite proud of this “optimistic” ending in the whole dark story.😂
why readers seem to ignore the love between Cheng Xin and Tianming?! The way that it blew my mind is the love moments between Cheng Xin and Tianming. It's a self-breakthrough for Liu Cinxin to write a wonderful love story in this trilogy. Very very few sci-fi writers could do that in their sci-fi novels. Not to mention that it's a very sci-fi and very romantic love story in a hardcore sci-fi novel. Cheng Xin met Tianming in that dinghy. .... 1. “All right, let’s talk about something else.” Cheng Xin smiled. “You want to know what I’ve been up to? After you left-” “I know everything. I’ve always been with you.” 2. “The universe is grand, but life is grander. We’re certain to meet again.” .... “Then let’s pick a spot to meet, somewhere other than the Earth, somewhere in the Milky Way.” “How about at the star you gave me? Our star.” “All right. At our star!” 3. Only one voice echoed in her mind: Our star. Our star... 4. “We don’t know where to go,” “We don’t know where to find them,” “Have you forgotten? Other than them, he also exists in the universe. You have a date,” “Yes, we have a date,” “Then let’s go to your star.” “Yes, let’s go to our star!”
I finished the trilogy a while ago, and it lingers like no other book ever. My husband just started the book 2. I told him the first book covers a few decades, the second spans a few hundred years. He's so surprised and went 'REALLY??' He has no idea what's coming at him in book 3!!! To say this trilogy mind-blowing is an understatement.
The dimensional warfare (3-dimensional matter collapsing into 2 dimensions while retaining its mass and gravity) being offered as a plausible explanation for dark matter actually fucking broke my brain.
I am so glad You loved 'Death's End' coz I did too and was so astonished to find that many Fans found it divisive ! I still think about the Events of This Book...the sheer scope of it.. like You said, couldn't have imagined it when I started 3body... now let's hope and pray We get to eventually see all of This in later Seasons of the Netflix Show !
It was the best science-fiction book I’ve ever read, period. I am into hard sci-if and I am obsessed by physics and astrophysics. The work is full of references to actual scientific theories, and I am absolutely amazed by the author’s capacity of create complex plots and twists without leaving any loose ends. All 3 books are a perfect complement to each other. More: the trilogy gives material for the deepest philosophical discussions. All these without appealing to mysticism of any type, even the god’s hypothesis
I finished the trilogy two months ago. I have not read a series that left me feeling so many emotion. There were so many scenes that genuinely made me angry at humanity, they had so many chances to save the majority of the population on the planet and humanity refused. The sacrifices the characters made left me so saddened. Luo Ji being viewed as some dictator broke my heart, he was never thanked and he gave up so much to keep everything in check for years and to be hated was so saddening to me. Cheng Xin and Yun Tianming bing so close but never close enough to reunite truly moved my heart, they were so close to each other. Even Wade who was in my opinion a survivor, and would do anything to make sure humanity survived was executed and his technology was the thing humanity needed to survive, I was so angry. The way the Trisolarans dealt with humanity was so shocking and terrifying. The idea that so much of the human population would be wiped out not by the Trisolarans but by humans wanting to survive was so realistic and terrifying. I was left completely shocked with this book. The Dark Forrest has been my favorite so far but a great addition to the three books. Would love to hear your opinion on The Redemption of Time book.
Cixin Liu understands humanity very well. Human stupidity is our most consistent export. If there is a decision to be made at the cusp of enterprise and sacrifice we will ALWAYS take the wrong one or give it to someone who will do it wrong. While despising the efforts of the person(s) who brought us to that stage. When we are comfortable we resort to childhood. This causes destruction and the cycle starts again.
What I loved about the ending was that it was essentially asking people to give up their own safety and re-enter the dark forest in order for the universe to continue. (Well, end, but start over.) They had to reject the premise of the dark forest in a way, choose self-sacrifice so that future others could live. And they had to do this with nothing more than a hope that enough others would do the same. To me the end is a triumph of shared humanity and hope over the concept of the dark forest itself.
i also liked the fact that even after slightly impugning the feminine perspective with the tri-solarans knowing they wouldn't push the button to broadcast the signal, it seemed like it was that feminine caring nurturing perspective that would be needed to make that sacrifice.
@@ZedsDeadBaby117 I remember an interview and this older white lady was asking him about his brilliant female characters and if there was any special consideration for adding strong female characters. And Cixin was like.. oh, not at all. I don't think about characters even for a moment. They're just there as vessels for my sci fi ideas.
In terms of the trial, I didnt even feel like the point of it was the trial itself. it was all about talking about what it means to be a human. What it means to be in a society, how we define our society, our laws, our morals. I found it so fascinating.
I would say another thread that Cixin Liu was trying to convey is that you should live your life now and not wait for it to get better. Cheng Xin's story is so sad because she had the chance multiple times to live her whole life and each time she delayed and delayed. I think she might have lived to be like 45 years old? Maybe younger. Sure, she went ahead through time billions of years, but her experiences did not amount to that much. Several characters went through this, and I don't know how deep the sub plot of the cyrongically-frozen-humans Cixin Liu wanted to delve in to, but it is most certainly what caused a lot of pain and suffering to the characters in the book. I think it was almost a necessity to have to help push the story into the future, which as someone who is tired of writers not thinking of humans beyond the point of 80 years is frustrating, so I am grateful for the experience Cixin Liu gave readers/me.
why readers seem to overlook the love between Cheng Xin and Tianming?! The way that it blew my mind is the love moments between Cheng Xin and Tianming. It's a self-breakthrough for Liu Cinxin to write a wonderful love story in this trilogy. Very very few sci-fi writers could do that in their sci-fi novels. Not to mention that it's a very sci-fi and very romantic love story in a hardcore sci-fi novel. Cheng Xin met Tianming in that dinghy. .... 1. “All right, let’s talk about something else.” Cheng Xin smiled. “You want to know what I’ve been up to? After you left-” “I know everything. I’ve always been with you.” 2. “The universe is grand, but life is grander. We’re certain to meet again.” .... “Then let’s pick a spot to meet, somewhere other than the Earth, somewhere in the Milky Way.” “How about at the star you gave me? Our star.” “All right. At our star!” 3. Only one voice echoed in her mind: Our star. Our star... 4. “We don’t know where to go,” “We don’t know where to find them,” “Have you forgotten? Other than them, he also exists in the universe. You have a date,” “Yes, we have a date,” “Then let’s go to your star.” “Yes, let’s go to our star!”
I'm glad you enjoyed this trilogy, it's certainly one that just stuck in my brain and I keep thinking about the Dark Forest every time I look up at the stars and wonder about what's out there.
It's one of my favourite trilogies! The way it gets bigger and better all the time. I just wonder how you could go through the review without mentioning the Sophon, and also the beginning.
Easily one of my most favorite books EVER!! It’s easily the best book out of the 3BP trilogy and it’s such a lovely hard sci-fi book, amazing story and I hope more people read it!
You're completely missing the point. No humans live forever. What's important is our legacy is carried on by our offspring and that's exactly what happened in Death's End. The entire trilogy is about humanity and never about individuals.
@@DaddyBear205 Well she did mention in other comments that the ending made her felt like a punch in her face, and I'm just trying to explain that it needn't be taken that way.
When the "universe blinked" in the first book, i was intrigued. When the Dark Forest theory was explained in the second book, i hid under my bed. When they started to use cosmological constants as weapons in the third book, i lost my mind.
This series feels like a true cosmic horror for the modern age. It effectively communicated the unimaginable insignificance of humanity when compared to the cosmic civilisations like the one Singer is from. He is just a grunt in his population, and yet through technology, he poses as existential a threat to humanity as an old god would in a lovecraftian horror.
@@karabomasibi2331 I think it's how he wants to take a second to indulge a curiosity of his before his boss tells him to get back to work, so he shrugs his shoulders (if he has those) and does it. Even across like 50 light years it's so relatable lol
This book series is akin to Asimov’s Foundation. The story isn’t really about the characters, it’s about the gigantic tale he is telling. The characters are just there to help the reader understand the huge story being told, like in Foundation. Both tales are fantastic.
I regret reading this series because it was so good that I can’t read any other sci-fi books at all. My favorite part was the whole chapter of Singer. Especially Singer’s line of reasoning about the hiding gene. As well as his conversation with his superior when he asked for the dual vector foil and his superior’s permission to use it and saying that such weapon isn’t really that expensive to make despite the weapon’s tremendous lethality. Also the part when Singer recklessly tosses the weapon just like it was nothing. Their civilization is so advanced we can’t even comprehend their power.
I am just discovering these three books, watched the tv show of the first book. I LOVE how dark forrest of hiding from species who aren't good or advanced also small 10 dimensions but most are hidden from us. Makes you think of the big bang and everything being FRACTAL!!!!
So many moments from this book stick with me, but most especially The Stairs of Responsibility because of where I was in my life personally. I finished this book days before the 2020 shutdown, and the entire thing quickly felt incredibly relevant at the time and definitely shaped a lot of my perspective on all of the pandemic. I think a lot of the political squabbles at the time just felt incredibly irreverent when viewed with the perspective of how small humanity is in the scheme of the universe and the question of how humanity moves forward when genuinely faced with danger. Although I wouldn't recommend reading this book without reading the rest of the series, for me this one is levels above the other two. I still find myself thinking about it constantly.
Pandemic of fear. Live trauma based mind control program designed for the world. And it worked to great success. Now the most powerful (1%) know how easily people will conform to just about anything. The "political" squabbles should have surrounded our will to live and work freely. Instead we were treated to more social programming centering around,what else? Well that's easy. Race/identity. Everyone forgot about covid 1984 and took to the streets. The corporate media forgot it's existence, until the end of the summer and time for the vax rollout. That's when "variants" came into play. Meanwhile people were legit dying from Remdesivir poisoning.
Just finished this novel hours ago. My advice to anyone getting into the trilogy, especially with the Netflix series just coming out, is not to get too bogged down with the hard sci-fi concepts. They're very high-concept and, in my opinion, affect the pacing negatively at times. Cheng Xi is certainly flawed, but as you said at the end of your review, I think she is the perfect representation of the best parts of humanity. She constantly chooses hope and understanding over pure self preservation and while she is constantly tortured by why her decisions were wrong for humanity, she never sacrifices her ideals for her duty. A great trilogy and I loved how it ended. Even in the final throes of the universe, Cheng Xi still chose hope over self preservation. After 18 million years, Cheng Xi still gonna Cheng Xi.
Correct. And it's her decisions that led to the extermination of humanity not just once, but three times. She never learned her lessons either as she was incapable of objective thought. Like a baby, and she was often referred to as "Child" her thoughts were entirely subjective. Nevertheless she correctly represented humanity and the fate we ultimately deserved.
Just finished and had to come here right away because I can’t discuss with anyone that might watch the show. WOW, just WOW My only spoiler free description of this series: It’s not horror and is the scariest book series I’ve ever read! The author choice that surprised me the most was the first person narrative of the cleaning crew alien. I know there have been some Tri-Solaren (spelling?) points of view, but from book 1 we were never given a description of what they look like or what their planet is like. So this immersive chapter dive into a 3rd alien race felt amazing and harsh at the same time. I’m an audio book listener and it became comical how many times I thought this book was ending. Wow that was amazing twist before the end … 8 hours left ?? I can’t believe that ending twist… 4 hours left ??? That was cool to give them an end like that… 2 hours left? Then it was done and I have missed it since. Audible claims to have 5 books in the series, but this feels right to me. I’ll have to join you starting Grace of Kings next.
The most chilling is how casually Singer uses dual vector foil (tip, it wasn't actually Singer who destroyed the Solar System, someone else beat him to it).
Singer chapter is easily my personal favorite chapters in fiction, especially when you consider that his wasnt the one that flattened us Hammers home the fact that "we are bugs" in this universe splendidly
I really enjoyed how quietly his chapter was thrown in just to emphasize the indifference of the universe. Him launching an apocalyptic dimension-collapsing attack on a civilization had the same emotional impact for him as us sending an email at work. Just another day.
@@viktorija.jankauskaiteIf I recall correctly, it’s the fact that that chapter is set a year after the dual-vector foil is first discovered in the Solar System by humanity!
@@thatmykahguy I've seen in multiple places, apparently in an interview this was an error on Cixin Liu's part, but regardless i think it fits the theme of the dark forest idea perfectly and i still consider that to be the case even knowing it was just an error on the authors part.
Glad someone else likes this part so much! It is my favorite as well. My specific favorite part was at the end when Singer asks for the dual-vector foil (the 2 dimensions paper) and his superior doesn’t even care that he is taking it and said: it is not like this weapon is expensive! This speaks volumes of how superior Singer’s civilization is!
Same feeling about Tianming's five recalls in his euthanasia, the trial of the captains, and Chenxin's struggle when the attack came. And also agree about the thoughts of the ending. Even if the universe is a dark forest, why there are civilizations like the human race existing in this situation and reaching the end, I believe humanity weighs in its way and means a lot. Those survivors like Beihai and Wade showed respect for humanity in their ultimate decision.
Loved some of the high concept stuff, I couldn't care less about the single characters. In fact, some of them I actively disliked, such as the constant misguided decisions of the main character, until the very end, she's unredeemable and won't ever learn. I guess it was a good portrayal of an idealist. Beside the high concept stuff, I was really into the historical story at the beginning, the Singer part, and the three chapters fairy tale. Highly recommend Death's End
Wade represents the dark side while Chen Xin represents the good side of humanity. In the 3rd book the people chose the good side, but unfortunately it was against natural selection where the fittest survives, and so humanity was doomed. It was never her fault alone.
BTW, it's not so much our radio broadcasts that need to be worried about. Our largest radio telescopes would not be able to pick up our broadcasts if it were even just 4 light years away. However, our radars have been going for about a century which is a concentrated beam. These could be detected for potentially thousands of light years, though they have only reached 100 or so at the moment. So really, we are already a bit ruined for hiding.
This was a great video! I read this back in 2019 so some of the finer detailed moments are starting to get really fuzzy for me but there are two moments I will never forget. The droplet in the dark forest and when the decide to press the button. I think about both of those moments all the time. I still get chills from the button push. It may be my favorite moment I have ever read. Do you plan on reading The Redemption of Time? It takes place in the same universe with the same characters but was not written Cixin. Cixin did give it his blessing before it was published however.
Just to put into perspective, humans adapted to the dying earth, behind Jupiter, on Mars, Mercury, behind Neptune, Uranus, Trisolarans, Spaceships, a distant star, inside a black hole all within a span of 300-400 years. Even made spaceship which could travel at lightspeed bending spacetime curvature. The book is a mind expanding and a mindbending story. Really enjoyed it.
I'm not really sure how I feel about the series. There were some parts that were so interesting, but they were never expanded on as much as I would have lived. There were also moments where they presenting something as being the only option, but clearly isn't and it just sort of left me scratching my head wondering: "what about these other 20 things you could have done first?" I did like that humanity didn't save the day, which I think fit the tone of the story, but I wasn't really a fan of the ending. I'm not really sure what I was expecting, but I was expecting something more I guess. There were some really interesting concepts in the story, so I highly recommend syfy buffs reading it, but there people's opinions may vary depending on what you are into.
I finished this the other week and really loved it but came away really hating Chang xin. It was probably best to end it without her meeting (I forget his name) the "brain guy" but that is life: You don't always get what you want and you have to make due. I really think Cixin Liu finished the series too soon. I would have liked to have seen another hundred pages exploring Neo-Humanity after the two get out of light speed and back on the planet. I was actually expecting to find a humanity that was, itself, blowing up other worlds in the dark forrest, a sign that we sometimes become what we try to avoid.
Yes, neo-humanity could become like that. But they are not the same humanity like Cheng Xin or us anymore. They are just another kind of aliens after millions of millions of light years. It's meaningless for Cheng Xin to enter their world. It's like what Tianming had experienced.
what comes across, "again and again and again" in these books is that humanity makes decisions based on emotions and feels, NOT logic. and in this trilogy, is punished for it. again and again and again. also, I dig the author's hatred for pseudo science of psychology.
Thank you! I never get the Cheng Xin hate. It’s not about being kind. It’s more like most of us can not endure wade’s hardened way. Even if you are an average person who on the not caring nihilistic side, it’s still very hard to kill another human being, let alone a city or a whole civilization. That’s why humanity chose her
But it's because of kindness that we can't endure it. Even if it means potentially surviving, we can't subject people to such cruelty. But you're right, it's for those qualities that she was chosen
I'm so glad you enjoyed this one! I read it last year and still think about it. Anytime anyone mentions aliens now, it makes me think of the dark forest. /bitesnails
Luo Ji "You either die a hero or live enough to see yourself being branded the villain." Cheng Xin "Better to live a shorter but fruitful and moral life than live a long and violent life" Wade "These is no right or wrong, survival is the only answer."
I think the Netflix series (though not perfect) gets the feel of the story right. Also I love the theme. It played in my head constantly while finishing the series.
I heard someone once interpret the trilogy as an ecological warning and I think it works so well! Humans treating themselves as important and getting comfy in the sense of impending disaster.
Humans are important. We are the reason Earth exists. It’s not the other way around. We live in a simulation. Every religion, mythos, and even science knows this. The simulation was created for us.
I really appreciated your take on everything, it was very nice! One thing I would like to point out is that you made an assumption of the ending your dad wanted, that isn't necessarily what he said. I understand where your dad is coming from, I thought that everything ending with nothing left would be a more satisfying ending. But I also appreciate your ending where there's threads of Hope still there.
Found you through One Piece once and now listened to a vastly shortnened but well executed german audio book of this triology. Apparently there is a 4th book by Baoshu which expands on Yun Tianming's experience while being with the Trisolarians. From what I hear through the reviews, it is necessary for me to actually read the books now. This, even in the format I was introduced to it, was bitter sweet.
My exact response to the fairy tale part! "No, get on with the story! Wait .. this is important .. I gotta try to figure this out!" 😊 I absolutely love this trilogy. As for the ending, I loved it and my friend who also read it was "ehh" about it.
Universe: Problem time! What do you do? Wade: Let's be evil about it. Cheng Xin: No, let's have some empathy. Universe: Haha, stupid woman. Wade, go save her. 😊
I thought the question of whether or not the universe ends was left open ended. Although based on the prevailing dark forest mentality I guess it's more likely than not that the universe ends.
Remember in Norway that they were trapped in maelstrom. The old man said to her, “The night I finished building the lighthouse, I took my boat out to the sea to look at it from a distance. And all of a sudden I had a thought: Death is the only lighthouse that is always lit. No matter where you sail, ultimately, you must turn toward it. Everything fades in the world, but Death endures.”" The theme "Everything has its end" is also shown in other parts of 3rd book and also it's title "Death's End". Readers all accepted it as they read through the book. So why are they upset and unsatisfied with Cheng Xin for there is no big bang for the universe?! The 3rd book is wrapped up with "Everything has its end" theme perfectly, and she is just doing what readers agreed or accepted. Everything has its end.
Just finished Death's End and not entirely sure what to think, I have a hard time grasping that this was the same book with all the events that occurred in Australia w/ the Trisolarians and became very forgetful about the beginning of it (which I thought was great) when it came to what was occurring in the end. I by no means think this book was not anything but superb, because it was. I think the ending was great because it showcased humanity, or atleast what we expect from humanity, the caring for thy neighbor and willing to do what is best for the great good etc. It was very human of them how they ended the history of humans, I am very intrigued and think about the miniature planet Cheng Xin and Sophon created and left behind. Much like humans of Earth we were created from the water and I wonder if they were leaving the blueprints behind to create human species within that miniature planet or evolution might create a human in the billion of years to come with the new universe... just a thought.
So glad you liked this series, Merphy! There's a Chinese series of the first book out already, but it's 30 episodes long, so it might not be your thing (I loved it, though, as did loads of other Chinese people).
Hey guys, I want to give a bit of advice: our lives do not revolve around politics every day. As a loyal fan of this book, I once saw someone claim that there is misogyny in the content of this series, which is quite pity. Attached is an interview with the author himself, which may involve some topics that some people are interested in: ruclips.net/video/IaOEogcC0l4/видео.html In addition, the first part of TBP has been adapted into a TV series in China, and the feedback is good: ruclips.net/video/3-UO8jbrIoM/видео.html And now, 2024, I'm looking forward to the Netflix series.
Of course one woman saying she doesnt hate the main character bc shes weak. Yet all of himanity was lost bc of. That weakness. Wtf is the point anymore then?!? Theres no more humans? Wade got results and saved the 2 women! Even with that women are ungrateful
Now can we see why I try to suggest so much the hard sci-fi stuff? That I’m right and Merphy will love them?😂 Yes, Banks - Culture can hit the bar. This was a pretty good review of the book. You left out of the series what happened on Earth as a consequence. How serious is the… mistake that she makes. The attacks, the camps. Because (IMO) the main thing is all these decisions can be projected on the current state of the society that is presented by the author always. Let’s say it’s very advanced, no criminal activity, etc…. That described state of living gives the false sense of peace for the people. Next when the camps exist they are in constant danger they believe in a very different future and leader. So the decisions that can be made and accepted… That’s why the punishment is this harsh for the spaceship. Crimes against humanity and they also can’t face the fact they caused it. They are a mirror. How far they went or could go. Wade… it’s also mentioned that if he takes the button they would never attack. She was weak. The final attack was so awesome because they literally didn’t care that much to do anything it was cost effective.
I think the author implies a bit that in a real world everyone already knows that we are here and our perception of the reality is already been tempered with. I got the idea from the desert dream and the phrases like - no free space left at the table, and why do we think that only Trisolaris has sent us the photons.
Love how Wade was right all along but I wished both him and the other character would merge their way of thinking for humanity to survive like two sides of the same coin but instead Wade is taken out and only one view is left which in the end dooms humanity.
Wade - dark triad Machiavellian Chen Xin - light triad humanist. Humanity needed both in different eras just happens humanity didn’t know what it needed during those tough times.
Wade is only right if your sole goal is to survive and advance at all costs. But his methods would have required the utter abandonment of our humanity. At that point, why should we deserve to keep existing?
Kudos for you as a Reviewer for tackling the three body problem, as it is a very problematic and thought provoking must read series. On one hand we have the death of the author issues, then the Chinese text translated by a well-respected author in his own right - who is aware of how chinese culture and science fiction are not the best bed fellows. And then we have the ideas which are very Asimov- big Ideas but from a Chinese perspective. But Asimov mushed up with a chinese traditional views of plot and characterisation. It is a must read for grown up sci fi fans - but LOTS of people will hate this
It all started with a young bitter girl who, in her hatred of the world, sent another signal to the Trisolarans, revealing Earth's position. When the Trisolarans were already in a stalemate, another woman came along and sealed the fate of humanity for good.
It was a matter of time to be honest (mere decades). Technology progresses rapidly and someone somewhere would have done the same eventually without needing such high end radio. This part of the book is the least interesting, to me at least!
I love your take on the role of humanity in the books- our race fights so hard for survival, only to realize time and again that we are not the biggest, baddest contenders and are outclassed at every turn. It rings so true to the hubris that humans have. I’m in awe of how Cixin Liu was able to broaden the scope of how I feel on a dark night looking up at the stars: I am so infinitesimally TINY. Humanity is so insignificantly TINY. And yet we have the nerve to think we’re special??
If you're interested in more books like Death's End, sort of "reality warping cosmic wars with humans as bit players told in a deeply thematic way", there's a whole series that does that called Faction Paradox. It's _technically_ a spinoff of some Doctor Who novels, but it's basically fully standalone.
I just finished this and I'm just soo depressed! Like profoundly so. I had no idea I was going to be reading something like this when I started the first book... Why does everything have to die....
Remembrance of humanity's past was so good that I immediately wanted to start over and read it again when I finished it. And after months of reading nearly two books a week, I'm at a loss for what to read next because nothing compares.
I read the trilogy years ago, and then I covered the Three-Body Problem and the Dark Forest a few time after, but not the Death's End, the third book gave me the chilling and I don't want to retake that feeling ever again.
the ending has written at first book, we are bugs, which could be seen as the least significant by the other advanced being in the dark forest, but bugs survive.
the character of Cheng Xin, clearly demonstrate the possibility, at some point that the future of mankind could very possible be at the tip of The Most Unfit person, it happened in the history and it will keep happening.
@@AITryOut-Tutorial Well, humanity choose emotions over logic, they choose her over Wade over and over again. They ignored natural selection and that’s why those immersed in emotions got wiped out by the dual vector foil. Those on the fleeing ships choose natural selection and this made humanity persist to the end of times. The same is true for all other civilizations. The Author wanted to deliver this message in the most horrific and nightmarish way. Also, humanity has a short memory, so despite the many chances we had we still rejected the idea of interstellar travel and spreading our eggs all over the place instead of cramping it on Earth and the Solar System. This prohibition could have been understandable at the beginning of the Crisis Era. But it was utterly unacceptable when humanity mastered the technology for large self-sustaining spaceships.
@@abdullahalrasheed394 I can't say I agree with you 100%, but most of part I am with you. The reason we can make conclusion about the whole book and even humanity is we have God's angle to overlook the whole thing. but historically speaking, for all our history, we only have narrow angle to make our decision. most of people thought that they made the best decision ever they could do. If in the end, it wasn't, everyone takes hit. It just the way it is, and it will always be this way. Once they thought Luoji was right, and then switched to support Chengxin. Wallfacer Plan was executed, and then abandoned, and executed again. All of these are saying one thing, people are shortsighted, not by choice, but by destiny.
@@AITryOut-Tutorial Well said and I totally agree with you on this point. We can't judge decisions that were made based on a narrow angle. However, even if you applied all kinds of excuses, and exhausted all reasons to give someone the benefit of the doubt, you will still not find one, remotely, good reason for the prohibition of leaving the solar system during the Deterrence Era and afterwards. I'm struggling to understand the logic behind this prohibition during such times and I think this is a major flaw in the whole book story.
I honestly despise the second sword holder character. Every single pivotal decision she made, was the wrong decision. I'm especially annoyed by her decision to throw Wade under the bus. Like, no sh*t Sherlock! Of course this is going to bite you in the ass later; Wade was the only one doing anything that could remotely save humanity over the long haul!
Just found your channel, great stuff! Have you read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson? If you like grand scope science fiction and big ideas with a little more character focus, check it out!
Completed the book yesterday. I woke up today and sat down to collect my thoughts and summarize the book. I had the same reaction-it's so expansive and covers many timelines. Since I read them back to back in quick succession, my brain just clubbed many parts of this book with the second, and it felt like one really long book. The author just went bonkers in the last few chapters. [Spoiler!] Personally, he could have just ended with Chong Sheen meeting Galactic humans. But he had to go further with pocket universes, reboot of the big bang. God!! It was just mind-breaking. I need a separate science video to help me learn and visualize all the science stuff that happened in this book! All in all, great stuff, and I think this trilogy is the local maximum when it comes to Sci-Fi. What do you recommend I try next? I have "The Ministry for the Future" in my mind, but I am still thinking...
I didn’t understand how the humans aboard blue space and gravity were able to get to Cheng Xin’s star before she did when they had sub light speed ships. I also didn’t understand how over 18000000 years past when Cheng Xin and the other dude were stuck in light speed for 16 days when earlier the 50 hour light speed trip to the star had only take like 260 years. I think 16 days is like 300 some hours how did that equate to so much longer… are these plot holes? 🤔
Have you ever thought that the author "cloned" himself inside Tianming's brain, and that the stories, instead of being stories, are a kind of prophecy, that only a higher dimensional entity like him (Liu Cixin) could decipher it? He himself said that he was inside a time crunch, and I think that in his style, it wouldn't be crazy at all. That's what I've been thinking for hours after having finished the trilogy for the first time. Awaiting instructions.
I find there are a lot of similarity between this book and Hail Mary project, the main characters both got sent on this suicide mission without any knowledge of what would happen to them, and they both become friends with the aliens
I really enjoyed the sci-fi concepts of this book, but the decision making of the second sword holder throughout the book made her absolutely insufferable. If the human race really depended on someone like that, we would never get off this planet
Just finished the last book… wow.. what a book. I think my favorite moments would be the flyby of Europa and of course the 4th dimension expedition to the tomb.
I’m kind of with your Dad about the ending, but not as disappointed. Seemed to me that the end of the story wasn’t going to be with the relaunching of the universe but rather with having hope that it would but understanding on a deep level that it was really going to die.
Meeerphy! You need to read Baoshus' 'The Redemption of Time'. He is a protege of cixin liu and was allowed to write the story of... You know, the brain in the spacejar. I personally loved it too and it expands on Deaths End in a nice way!
I love this book, but I absolutely hated the ending, I don't think that humanity had to be the best at something and rise above, the notion the we are insignificant I quite actually liked, but the ending was extremely boring for me, even reading through the final 100 pages felt like a task and not like an enjoyment of a story that I liked.
to me it was interesting that the trisolorians ended up having maybe their first “technological explosion” (developing the light speed ships) after expending time with us and adopting some of the human culture (they were right to fear us, ahaha)
Some of my thoughts: 1. You need to have read the previous books to understand this book. There is no summary or reminder in the book. Many characters and situations from the previous books are mentioned without any explanation. In my opinion that is a flaw that could be easily corrected with a few paragraphs of explananation. I read the first 2 books a few months ago, but I don't remember the details. 2. It is difficult to believe that the swordholder would be a single person. It is much more plausible that many leaders, presidents or prime-ministers of the world would all be swordholders and be able to press the button. And the deterrence weapon would only be activated if all, or at least a majority of the swordholders pressed the button. Putting the fate of the entire human race on a single person is too inplausible. 3. Many elements of the book are based on real science. It is difficult to know which elements are from the author, and which elements are from other authors or scientists. I wished there was an a bibliography with all the sources. 4. There is no mention of a Noah's Ark, at least in this book. Maybe there is in the previous books? I don't remember. If humanity were doomed to extinction, it is quite probable they would try to build and launch spaceships that worked as Noah's Ark. Such spaceship should have libraries with most human knowledge, and frozen embryos and seeds of most animals and vegetables, including several human embryos. The purpose would be that hopefully an advanced civilization would intercept and be able to revive the embryos, so humanity could survive and rebuild somewhere in the Cosmos. A more advanced Noah's Ark would have artificial incubators able to develop and give birth to the human embryos, and robot nannies able to take care, raise and educate the babies. An even more advanced Noah's Ark would have human adults in hibernation. A Noah's Ark is not that difficult to build and it is feasible, at least in its simplest form, with today's technology. Many arks can be built and launched and if at least one of them succeeds, then the human civilization could still exist and thrive somewhere in the galaxy. 5. If an alien civilization were to try to conquer the Earth, would they even bother to talk to humans? Do humans bother to talk to ants that might be living on a property where humans want to build a new house? Humans just build the house and kill any ants that stand in the way. Just like ants are completely ignored by humans, an alien civilization would just ignore humans and just kill any human that stood in the way. So to survive all you have to do is not to stand in the way of the aliens. The only problem is that aliens could want to occupy the entire planet, and possibly there would be nowhere to go to survive, except maybe outer space. And humans fleeing Earth would probably be completely ignored by the aliens.
1) All three books of this trilogy is already very thick and Cixin Liu intend and style is not about individual but the bigger circle and picture in the grand scheme of the universe and purpose of life in beyond a single insignificant solar system. 2) Do you have any ideas how much uncertain and complexity whenever involve more than one individual? The intended designed outcome will be very unpredictable. A good example is the two-way relationship between couples. 3) majority of the hard-science are the Cixin Liu alone since it is based on the latest cutting-edge scientific idea of our modern time. He has engineering background and work in that environment field for many years. How much can you say of previous famous sci-fi authors. 4) Human advancement haven't reach to that point yet at the moment of the storyline due to travel speed limitation and energy potential, plus the whole universe is a dark forest. The chance of encountering another benevelant alien lifeform that use their own resources to revive humanity. Even if they did, it would be in small number to be used for study. The closest star system is 4 light-year and is already occupied by Tri-solarian, and even they have to take many years to reach our solar system en-masses and have to take 3 stages in progression of expenses and scale. 5) Human don't bother communication with ant because this specie was known since ancient time and no more useful information can be exchange among the two species due to lack of a viable communication methods. Human already assume the role of domination over ant (an any other Earth species) and see no threat from them. Tri-solarian attempt at communication with human in order to influence and manipulate into slowing down human scientific and military progress to ensure 100% chances of victory when the close proximity physical war begin.
![The Dark Forest [spoiler] Review | The Three Body Problem](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/axAdVnKTnZo/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Dark Forest [spoiler] Review | The Three Body Problem](/img/tr.png)
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I am lucky to have met Liu Cixin in Worldcon 75 in Helsinki. I got my copy signed by him. 😊
how nice! when was that?
@@刘宇飞-y9o some time in the past, I’d assume, though who knows 😉 🤔
So lucky! I found a signed copy of his book online recently and they’re asking for over a thousand dollars.
The "hard sci-fi" aspects of the series were mind-blowing. Honesty, I don't even remember much about the characters or the finer details of the general plot. But the science and theories, especially his take on the Fermi Paradox, were what kept my attention and really changed the way I thought about things in that regard. Truly mind-bending ideas on a universal scale. The ending was so crazy, the entire series felt very dark and nihilistic (to me), but the ending felt like it had a glimmer of hope in it.
I see what you mean but I felt like I'd been punched in the face when I finished
Characters are poorly developed? Dialogs are shallow? Who cares!?
Sorry, but this book is not about characters! It’s about the overall experience. The characters are a detail. It is like a history book written by someone in the far future about the universe and its civilizations. Of course is a metaphor for our society where we can see each person as a civilization and the billions of people as the universe under the Dark Forest “law”. This is antagonistic to most religious views. People are mean! Survival is the highest goal. And we can extend this idea to the nature as a whole and the universe. Goodness exists only as a human ideal, and generally is inefficient and leads to ruin.
On top of it, the way the Author connected actual scientific theories and knowledge into multiple plots and twists. Genius!
A waste this to become only a Netflix series instead of a classic movie trilogy like Matrix or 2001!
Even though the characters aren’t the point the series as much as it’s ideas, I don’t feel like they’re bad at all. You don’t necessarily follow the same characters from beginning to end like say a Frodo so I can understand feeling disconnected from them. But I think they’re mostly cool and interesting. I wouldn’t even say they’re one dimensional, just not the focus.
You should read the andalite chronicles if you liked this book, you will love that too.
Exactly! Reading it I thought again and again, what Sophie's World is to Philosophy, the 3-Body-Problem Trilogy is to Material Science/Physics.
So this is my favorite book in the trilogy by far. I loved all the concepts and whilst it might be unpopular opinion it is my fave because of the way it blew my mind. I especially enjoyed 3 moments:
1. When Luo Ji finishes his time as the sword wielder, he bows to the trisolarians. That scene, the respect shown between both sides was really cool.
2. I actively cheered when the ships hit the button. The story had been so bleak with humanity, that getting that small triumph made me cheer at home.
3. I loved that although humanity was not the most important society (no one is), the message at the end comes in part in human language, symbolizing that human society was important enough in the great scale of things.
the last part was exactly what Liu Cixin intended: he wanted to show that human beings made it to the end of the universe! And he was quite proud of this “optimistic” ending in the whole dark story.😂
why readers seem to ignore the love between Cheng Xin and Tianming?!
The way that it blew my mind is the love moments between Cheng Xin and Tianming. It's a self-breakthrough for Liu Cinxin to write a wonderful love story in this trilogy. Very very few sci-fi writers could do that in their sci-fi novels. Not to mention that it's a very sci-fi and very romantic love story in a hardcore sci-fi novel.
Cheng Xin met Tianming in that dinghy. ....
1. “All right, let’s talk about something else.” Cheng Xin smiled. “You want to
know what I’ve been up to? After you left-”
“I know everything. I’ve always been with you.”
2. “The universe is grand, but life is grander. We’re certain to meet again.” ....
“Then let’s pick a spot to meet, somewhere other than the Earth, somewhere
in the Milky Way.”
“How about at the star you gave me? Our star.”
“All right. At our star!”
3. Only one voice echoed in her mind: Our star. Our star...
4. “We don’t know where to go,”
“We don’t know where to find them,”
“Have you forgotten? Other than them, he also exists in the universe. You have a date,”
“Yes, we have a date,”
“Then let’s go to your star.”
“Yes, let’s go to our star!”
@@Idylliactianming broke my heart
@@DaddyBear205Wait until you read the spinoff. You will regret your comment here!
@@abdullahalrasheed394 sorry what spin off? what are you referring to?
I finished the trilogy a while ago, and it lingers like no other book ever. My husband just started the book 2. I told him the first book covers a few decades, the second spans a few hundred years. He's so surprised and went 'REALLY??' He has no idea what's coming at him in book 3!!! To say this trilogy mind-blowing is an understatement.
I’m indescribably jealous of people who are able to write like this.
How *THE FUCK* do people just come up with this stuff?!?! It’s staggering 😂
I know, they must have supernatural brains. 😅
The black domain, the 0-homers, the death lines, and the 4-dimensional remnants of other species were some of my favorite parts.
My favourite parts are the last 10 minutes of the deterrence era, and Singer
Yeah, I really loved that part about Singer
The dimensional warfare (3-dimensional matter collapsing into 2 dimensions while retaining its mass and gravity) being offered as a plausible explanation for dark matter actually fucking broke my brain.
I am so glad You loved 'Death's End' coz I did too and was so astonished to find that many Fans found it divisive ! I still think about the Events of This Book...the sheer scope of it.. like You said, couldn't have imagined it when I started 3body... now let's hope and pray We get to eventually see all of This in later Seasons of the Netflix Show !
It was the best science-fiction book I’ve ever read, period. I am into hard sci-if and I am obsessed by physics and astrophysics. The work is full of references to actual scientific theories, and I am absolutely amazed by the author’s capacity of create complex plots and twists without leaving any loose ends. All 3 books are a perfect complement to each other. More: the trilogy gives material for the deepest philosophical discussions. All these without appealing to mysticism of any type, even the god’s hypothesis
You should read the andalite chronicles.
I can just tell the book hangover from this is gonna fuck me up for months
I finished the trilogy two months ago. I have not read a series that left me feeling so many emotion. There were so many scenes that genuinely made me angry at humanity, they had so many chances to save the majority of the population on the planet and humanity refused. The sacrifices the characters made left me so saddened. Luo Ji being viewed as some dictator broke my heart, he was never thanked and he gave up so much to keep everything in check for years and to be hated was so saddening to me.
Cheng Xin and Yun Tianming bing so close but never close enough to reunite truly moved my heart, they were so close to each other.
Even Wade who was in my opinion a survivor, and would do anything to make sure humanity survived was executed and his technology was the thing humanity needed to survive, I was so angry.
The way the Trisolarans dealt with humanity was so shocking and terrifying. The idea that so much of the human population would be wiped out not by the Trisolarans but by humans wanting to survive was so realistic and terrifying. I was left completely shocked with this book.
The Dark Forrest has been my favorite so far but a great addition to the three books. Would love to hear your opinion on The Redemption of Time book.
Cixin Liu understands humanity very well. Human stupidity is our most consistent export. If there is a decision to be made at the cusp of enterprise and sacrifice we will ALWAYS take the wrong one or give it to someone who will do it wrong. While despising the efforts of the person(s) who brought us to that stage. When we are comfortable we resort to childhood. This causes destruction and the cycle starts again.
When I was a kid, I was scared of the sun exploding and destroying the Solar System. Thanks for new nightmare fuel as an adult Cixin….
Get flattened in 2 dimensions. 😂😂
Finished earlier this year and was disappointed there wasn’t much booktube coverage. Thank you for doing a deep dive!
What I loved about the ending was that it was essentially asking people to give up their own safety and re-enter the dark forest in order for the universe to continue. (Well, end, but start over.)
They had to reject the premise of the dark forest in a way, choose self-sacrifice so that future others could live.
And they had to do this with nothing more than a hope that enough others would do the same.
To me the end is a triumph of shared humanity and hope over the concept of the dark forest itself.
i also liked the fact that even after slightly impugning the feminine perspective with the tri-solarans knowing they wouldn't push the button to broadcast the signal, it seemed like it was that feminine caring nurturing perspective that would be needed to make that sacrifice.
@@ZedsDeadBaby117 I remember an interview and this older white lady was asking him about his brilliant female characters and if there was any special consideration for adding strong female characters. And Cixin was like.. oh, not at all. I don't think about characters even for a moment. They're just there as vessels for my sci fi ideas.
The series was full of nonsense and Death's end just made it worse with that unnecessary fairy tale segment.
@@DoubleJack777OMG you didn’t understand why those tales are there?
@@DaddyBear205 can't believe someone forgot the point of the fairy tales
In terms of the trial, I didnt even feel like the point of it was the trial itself.
it was all about talking about what it means to be a human. What it means to be in a society, how we define our society, our laws, our morals.
I found it so fascinating.
I would say another thread that Cixin Liu was trying to convey is that you should live your life now and not wait for it to get better. Cheng Xin's story is so sad because she had the chance multiple times to live her whole life and each time she delayed and delayed. I think she might have lived to be like 45 years old? Maybe younger. Sure, she went ahead through time billions of years, but her experiences did not amount to that much. Several characters went through this, and I don't know how deep the sub plot of the cyrongically-frozen-humans Cixin Liu wanted to delve in to, but it is most certainly what caused a lot of pain and suffering to the characters in the book. I think it was almost a necessity to have to help push the story into the future, which as someone who is tired of writers not thinking of humans beyond the point of 80 years is frustrating, so I am grateful for the experience Cixin Liu gave readers/me.
why readers seem to overlook the love between Cheng Xin and Tianming?!
The way that it blew my mind is the love moments between Cheng Xin and Tianming. It's a self-breakthrough for Liu Cinxin to write a wonderful love story in this trilogy. Very very few sci-fi writers could do that in their sci-fi novels. Not to mention that it's a very sci-fi and very romantic love story in a hardcore sci-fi novel.
Cheng Xin met Tianming in that dinghy. ....
1. “All right, let’s talk about something else.” Cheng Xin smiled. “You want to
know what I’ve been up to? After you left-”
“I know everything. I’ve always been with you.”
2. “The universe is grand, but life is grander. We’re certain to meet again.” ....
“Then let’s pick a spot to meet, somewhere other than the Earth, somewhere
in the Milky Way.”
“How about at the star you gave me? Our star.”
“All right. At our star!”
3. Only one voice echoed in her mind: Our star. Our star...
4. “We don’t know where to go,”
“We don’t know where to find them,”
“Have you forgotten? Other than them, he also exists in the universe. You have a date,”
“Yes, we have a date,”
“Then let’s go to your star.”
“Yes, let’s go to our star!”
“He came; He loved; He gave her a star.”
I'm glad you enjoyed this trilogy, it's certainly one that just stuck in my brain and I keep thinking about the Dark Forest every time I look up at the stars and wonder about what's out there.
A lot of empty space…..lol 😁
Remembrance of earth's past is the most romantic love letter about entropy and nihilism...
It's one of my favourite trilogies! The way it gets bigger and better all the time.
I just wonder how you could go through the review without mentioning the Sophon, and also the beginning.
Easily one of my most favorite books EVER!! It’s easily the best book out of the 3BP trilogy and it’s such a lovely hard sci-fi book, amazing story and I hope more people read it!
All of my favourite characters slowly died off and I was left with the emptiness at the end
You're completely missing the point. No humans live forever. What's important is our legacy is carried on by our offspring and that's exactly what happened in Death's End. The entire trilogy is about humanity and never about individuals.
@@davidw.2467it’s just her personal feelings and I had the same emptiness, and I started reading from the beginning again 😂
@@DaddyBear205 Well she did mention in other comments that the ending made her felt like a punch in her face, and I'm just trying to explain that it needn't be taken that way.
When the "universe blinked" in the first book, i was intrigued.
When the Dark Forest theory was explained in the second book, i hid under my bed.
When they started to use cosmological constants as weapons in the third book, i lost my mind.
Deaths end gave me weird dreams at nighr
This series feels like a true cosmic horror for the modern age. It effectively communicated the unimaginable insignificance of humanity when compared to the cosmic civilisations like the one Singer is from.
He is just a grunt in his population, and yet through technology, he poses as existential a threat to humanity as an old god would in a lovecraftian horror.
Singer was lowkey a favorite of mine and dude literally destroyed the solar system but idk man, I liked him
@@karabomasibi2331 I think it's how he wants to take a second to indulge a curiosity of his before his boss tells him to get back to work, so he shrugs his shoulders (if he has those) and does it. Even across like 50 light years it's so relatable lol
This book series is akin to Asimov’s Foundation. The story isn’t really about the characters, it’s about the gigantic tale he is telling. The characters are just there to help the reader understand the huge story being told, like in Foundation. Both tales are fantastic.
I regret reading this series because it was so good that I can’t read any other sci-fi books at all.
My favorite part was the whole chapter of Singer. Especially Singer’s line of reasoning about the hiding gene. As well as his conversation with his superior when he asked for the dual vector foil and his superior’s permission to use it and saying that such weapon isn’t really that expensive to make despite the weapon’s tremendous lethality.
Also the part when Singer recklessly tosses the weapon just like it was nothing.
Their civilization is so advanced we can’t even comprehend their power.
I liked him trying to piece together the history of what happened from what little info he had, thinking "man, these guys are lunatics"
I am just discovering these three books, watched the tv show of the first book. I LOVE how dark forrest of hiding from species who aren't good or advanced also small 10 dimensions but most are hidden from us. Makes you think of the big bang and everything being FRACTAL!!!!
So many moments from this book stick with me, but most especially The Stairs of Responsibility because of where I was in my life personally. I finished this book days before the 2020 shutdown, and the entire thing quickly felt incredibly relevant at the time and definitely shaped a lot of my perspective on all of the pandemic. I think a lot of the political squabbles at the time just felt incredibly irreverent when viewed with the perspective of how small humanity is in the scheme of the universe and the question of how humanity moves forward when genuinely faced with danger.
Although I wouldn't recommend reading this book without reading the rest of the series, for me this one is levels above the other two. I still find myself thinking about it constantly.
Pandemic of fear. Live trauma based mind control program designed for the world. And it worked to great success. Now the most powerful (1%) know how easily people will conform to just about anything. The "political" squabbles should have surrounded our will to live and work freely. Instead we were treated to more social programming centering around,what else?
Well that's easy. Race/identity. Everyone forgot about covid 1984 and took to the streets. The corporate media forgot it's existence, until the end of the summer and time for the vax rollout. That's when "variants" came into play. Meanwhile people were legit dying from Remdesivir poisoning.
Just finished this novel hours ago. My advice to anyone getting into the trilogy, especially with the Netflix series just coming out, is not to get too bogged down with the hard sci-fi concepts. They're very high-concept and, in my opinion, affect the pacing negatively at times.
Cheng Xi is certainly flawed, but as you said at the end of your review, I think she is the perfect representation of the best parts of humanity. She constantly chooses hope and understanding over pure self preservation and while she is constantly tortured by why her decisions were wrong for humanity, she never sacrifices her ideals for her duty.
A great trilogy and I loved how it ended. Even in the final throes of the universe, Cheng Xi still chose hope over self preservation. After 18 million years, Cheng Xi still gonna Cheng Xi.
Correct. And it's her decisions that led to the extermination of humanity not just once, but three times. She never learned her lessons either as she was incapable of objective thought. Like a baby, and she was often referred to as "Child" her thoughts were entirely subjective. Nevertheless she correctly represented humanity and the fate we ultimately deserved.
Very good review indeed. I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would thank you.
Just finished and had to come here right away because I can’t discuss with anyone that might watch the show.
WOW, just WOW
My only spoiler free description of this series: It’s not horror and is the scariest book series I’ve ever read!
The author choice that surprised me the most was the first person narrative of the cleaning crew alien. I know there have been some Tri-Solaren (spelling?) points of view, but from book 1 we were never given a description of what they look like or what their planet is like. So this immersive chapter dive into a 3rd alien race felt amazing and harsh at the same time.
I’m an audio book listener and it became comical how many times I thought this book was ending.
Wow that was amazing twist before the end … 8 hours left ??
I can’t believe that ending twist… 4 hours left ???
That was cool to give them an end like that… 2 hours left?
Then it was done and I have missed it since. Audible claims to have 5 books in the series, but this feels right to me. I’ll have to join you starting Grace of Kings next.
The most chilling is how casually Singer uses dual vector foil (tip, it wasn't actually Singer who destroyed the Solar System, someone else beat him to it).
@@roastpork5437Good day, from what have you decided that not the Singer destroyed the Solar sistem with the foil? Did I miss any clues in this book?
@@viktorija.jankauskaite The Singer sent the foil in Bunker Era year 67. A foil reached the solar system in year 66.
I looooved these books! I read them all last year and I'm so happy that you enjoyed them. Will you be reacting to the Netflix series?
Singer chapter is easily my personal favorite chapters in fiction, especially when you consider that his wasnt the one that flattened us
Hammers home the fact that "we are bugs" in this universe splendidly
I really enjoyed how quietly his chapter was thrown in just to emphasize the indifference of the universe.
Him launching an apocalyptic dimension-collapsing attack on a civilization had the same emotional impact for him as us sending an email at work. Just another day.
Was it really not Singer who destroyed the Solar system? Where, how it is implied? Did I miss something?
@@viktorija.jankauskaiteIf I recall correctly, it’s the fact that that chapter is set a year after the dual-vector foil is first discovered in the Solar System by humanity!
@@thatmykahguy I've seen in multiple places, apparently in an interview this was an error on Cixin Liu's part, but regardless i think it fits the theme of the dark forest idea perfectly and i still consider that to be the case even knowing it was just an error on the authors part.
Glad someone else likes this part so much! It is my favorite as well. My specific favorite part was at the end when Singer asks for the dual-vector foil (the 2 dimensions paper) and his superior doesn’t even care that he is taking it and said: it is not like this weapon is expensive! This speaks volumes of how superior Singer’s civilization is!
How much it reminisces about the world we live in is what really touched me. The COVID 19 , the crisis in Gaza
Same feeling about Tianming's five recalls in his euthanasia, the trial of the captains, and Chenxin's struggle when the attack came. And also agree about the thoughts of the ending. Even if the universe is a dark forest, why there are civilizations like the human race existing in this situation and reaching the end, I believe humanity weighs in its way and means a lot. Those survivors like Beihai and Wade showed respect for humanity in their ultimate decision.
Loved some of the high concept stuff, I couldn't care less about the single characters. In fact, some of them I actively disliked, such as the constant misguided decisions of the main character, until the very end, she's unredeemable and won't ever learn. I guess it was a good portrayal of an idealist. Beside the high concept stuff, I was really into the historical story at the beginning, the Singer part, and the three chapters fairy tale. Highly recommend Death's End
Wade represents the dark side while Chen Xin represents the good side of humanity. In the 3rd book the people chose the good side, but unfortunately it was against natural selection where the fittest survives, and so humanity was doomed. It was never her fault alone.
I remember reading somewhere Liu admitted being rushed by the publisher towards the end of the third book. It is such a shame.
BTW, it's not so much our radio broadcasts that need to be worried about. Our largest radio telescopes would not be able to pick up our broadcasts if it were even just 4 light years away. However, our radars have been going for about a century which is a concentrated beam. These could be detected for potentially thousands of light years, though they have only reached 100 or so at the moment. So really, we are already a bit ruined for hiding.
I think I had a very similar experience, and also found the ending to be extremely fitting. Fun spoiler chats!!
This was a great video! I read this back in 2019 so some of the finer detailed moments are starting to get really fuzzy for me but there are two moments I will never forget. The droplet in the dark forest and when the decide to press the button. I think about both of those moments all the time. I still get chills from the button push. It may be my favorite moment I have ever read. Do you plan on reading The Redemption of Time? It takes place in the same universe with the same characters but was not written Cixin. Cixin did give it his blessing before it was published however.
He was kind of railroaded into agreeing to its publication though and it's the reason why there won't be a fourth book from him :(
Just to put into perspective, humans adapted to the dying earth, behind Jupiter, on Mars, Mercury, behind Neptune, Uranus, Trisolarans, Spaceships, a distant star, inside a black hole all within a span of 300-400 years. Even made spaceship which could travel at lightspeed bending spacetime curvature. The book is a mind expanding and a mindbending story. Really enjoyed it.
I'm not really sure how I feel about the series.
There were some parts that were so interesting, but they were never expanded on as much as I would have lived.
There were also moments where they presenting something as being the only option, but clearly isn't and it just sort of left me scratching my head wondering: "what about these other 20 things you could have done first?"
I did like that humanity didn't save the day, which I think fit the tone of the story, but I wasn't really a fan of the ending. I'm not really sure what I was expecting, but I was expecting something more I guess.
There were some really interesting concepts in the story, so I highly recommend syfy buffs reading it, but there people's opinions may vary depending on what you are into.
I finished this the other week and really loved it but came away really hating Chang xin. It was probably best to end it without her meeting (I forget his name) the "brain guy" but that is life: You don't always get what you want and you have to make due. I really think Cixin Liu finished the series too soon. I would have liked to have seen another hundred pages exploring Neo-Humanity after the two get out of light speed and back on the planet. I was actually expecting to find a humanity that was, itself, blowing up other worlds in the dark forrest, a sign that we sometimes become what we try to avoid.
Yes, neo-humanity could become like that. But they are not the same humanity like Cheng Xin or us anymore. They are just another kind of aliens after millions of millions of light years. It's meaningless for Cheng Xin to enter their world. It's like what Tianming had experienced.
what comes across, "again and again and again" in these books is that humanity makes decisions based on emotions and feels, NOT logic. and in this trilogy, is punished for it.
again and again and again.
also, I dig the author's hatred for pseudo science of psychology.
Thank you! I never get the Cheng Xin hate. It’s not about being kind. It’s more like most of us can not endure wade’s hardened way. Even if you are an average person who on the not caring nihilistic side, it’s still very hard to kill another human being, let alone a city or a whole civilization. That’s why humanity chose her
But it's because of kindness that we can't endure it. Even if it means potentially surviving, we can't subject people to such cruelty. But you're right, it's for those qualities that she was chosen
What you're saying is that it's easier to die than to kill...
Great review! I’m tired of people who review this book and take zero notes! This is wonderful.
I personally loved the ending, a bit melancholic but beautiful at the same time.
I'm so glad you enjoyed this one! I read it last year and still think about it. Anytime anyone mentions aliens now, it makes me think of the dark forest. /bitesnails
Luo Ji "You either die a hero or live enough to see yourself being branded the villain."
Cheng Xin "Better to live a shorter but fruitful and moral life than live a long and violent life"
Wade "These is no right or wrong, survival is the only answer."
I think the Netflix series (though not perfect) gets the feel of the story right.
Also I love the theme. It played in my head constantly while finishing the series.
I heard someone once interpret the trilogy as an ecological warning and I think it works so well! Humans treating themselves as important and getting comfy in the sense of impending disaster.
Humans are important. We are the reason Earth exists. It’s not the other way around. We live in a simulation. Every religion, mythos, and even science knows this. The simulation was created for us.
@@shawnlinnehan7349Um, no.
The tv series is 30 some episodes which I’m not sure I’ll try. I’ll give the coming shorter series come next year a go.
I really appreciated your take on everything, it was very nice! One thing I would like to point out is that you made an assumption of the ending your dad wanted, that isn't necessarily what he said. I understand where your dad is coming from, I thought that everything ending with nothing left would be a more satisfying ending. But I also appreciate your ending where there's threads of Hope still there.
Found you through One Piece once and now listened to a vastly shortnened but well executed german audio book of this triology.
Apparently there is a 4th book by Baoshu which expands on Yun Tianming's experience while being with the Trisolarians.
From what I hear through the reviews, it is necessary for me to actually read the books now. This, even in the format I was introduced to it, was bitter sweet.
Enjoyed your review of this series! I read it last year and loved it all as well. So much a series that makes you want to talk about it.
My exact response to the fairy tale part! "No, get on with the story! Wait .. this is important .. I gotta try to figure this out!" 😊
I absolutely love this trilogy. As for the ending, I loved it and my friend who also read it was "ehh" about it.
Guys we need to bring in the VOYAGER PROBE 😢... we are doom lol
Universe: Problem time! What do you do?
Wade: Let's be evil about it.
Cheng Xin: No, let's have some empathy.
Universe: Haha, stupid woman. Wade, go save her. 😊
I thought the question of whether or not the universe ends was left open ended. Although based on the prevailing dark forest mentality I guess it's more likely than not that the universe ends.
Remember in Norway that they were trapped in maelstrom. The old man said to her, “The night I finished building the lighthouse, I took my boat out to the sea to look at it from a distance. And all of a sudden I had a thought: Death is the only lighthouse that is always lit. No matter where you sail, ultimately, you must turn toward it. Everything fades in the world, but Death endures.”"
The theme "Everything has its end" is also shown in other parts of 3rd book and also it's title "Death's End". Readers all accepted it as they read through the book. So why are they upset and unsatisfied with Cheng Xin for there is no big bang for the universe?! The 3rd book is wrapped up with "Everything has its end" theme perfectly, and she is just doing what readers agreed or accepted. Everything has its end.
Just finished Death's End and not entirely sure what to think, I have a hard time grasping that this was the same book with all the events that occurred in Australia w/ the Trisolarians and became very forgetful about the beginning of it (which I thought was great) when it came to what was occurring in the end. I by no means think this book was not anything but superb, because it was. I think the ending was great because it showcased humanity, or atleast what we expect from humanity, the caring for thy neighbor and willing to do what is best for the great good etc. It was very human of them how they ended the history of humans, I am very intrigued and think about the miniature planet Cheng Xin and Sophon created and left behind. Much like humans of Earth we were created from the water and I wonder if they were leaving the blueprints behind to create human species within that miniature planet or evolution might create a human in the billion of years to come with the new universe... just a thought.
My only question is what to read next!? How do you follow it up? I feel like I need some light and a feel-good factor.
So glad you liked this series, Merphy! There's a Chinese series of the first book out already, but it's 30 episodes long, so it might not be your thing (I loved it, though, as did loads of other Chinese people).
Hey guys, I want to give a bit of advice: our lives do not revolve around politics every day. As a loyal fan of this book, I once saw someone claim that there is misogyny in the content of this series, which is quite pity.
Attached is an interview with the author himself, which may involve some topics that some people are interested in: ruclips.net/video/IaOEogcC0l4/видео.html
In addition, the first part of TBP has been adapted into a TV series in China, and the feedback is good: ruclips.net/video/3-UO8jbrIoM/видео.html
And now, 2024, I'm looking forward to the Netflix series.
Of course one woman saying she doesnt hate the main character bc shes weak. Yet all of himanity was lost bc of. That weakness. Wtf is the point anymore then?!? Theres no more humans? Wade got results and saved the 2 women! Even with that women are ungrateful
You clearly need to talk to a therapist
Now can we see why I try to suggest so much the hard sci-fi stuff? That I’m right and Merphy will love them?😂 Yes, Banks - Culture can hit the bar.
This was a pretty good review of the book. You left out of the series what happened on Earth as a consequence. How serious is the… mistake that she makes. The attacks, the camps. Because (IMO) the main thing is all these decisions can be projected on the current state of the society that is presented by the author always. Let’s say it’s very advanced, no criminal activity, etc…. That described state of living gives the false sense of peace for the people. Next when the camps exist they are in constant danger they believe in a very different future and leader. So the decisions that can be made and accepted… That’s why the punishment is this harsh for the spaceship. Crimes against humanity and they also can’t face the fact they caused it. They are a mirror. How far they went or could go. Wade… it’s also mentioned that if he takes the button they would never attack. She was weak.
The final attack was so awesome because they literally didn’t care that much to do anything it was cost effective.
I think the author implies a bit that in a real world everyone already knows that we are here and our perception of the reality is already been tempered with. I got the idea from the desert dream and the phrases like - no free space left at the table, and why do we think that only Trisolaris has sent us the photons.
Love how Wade was right all along but I wished both him and the other character would merge their way of thinking for humanity to survive like two sides of the same coin but instead Wade is taken out and only one view is left which in the end dooms humanity.
Although fragmented and dysfunctional, Wade and Cheng Xin supported each other and kept each other in check long enough to achieve light speed travel.
Wade - dark triad Machiavellian
Chen Xin - light triad humanist.
Humanity needed both in different eras just happens humanity didn’t know what it needed during those tough times.
Wade is only right if your sole goal is to survive and advance at all costs. But his methods would have required the utter abandonment of our humanity. At that point, why should we deserve to keep existing?
Death's end gave me weird dreams for quite awhile.
Same
Kudos for you as a Reviewer for tackling the three body problem, as it is a very problematic and thought provoking must read series. On one hand we have the death of the author issues, then the Chinese text translated by a well-respected author in his own right - who is aware of how chinese culture and science fiction are not the best bed fellows. And then we have the ideas which are very Asimov- big Ideas but from a Chinese perspective. But Asimov mushed up with a chinese traditional views of plot and characterisation. It is a must read for grown up sci fi fans - but LOTS of people will hate this
It all started with a young bitter girl who, in her hatred of the world, sent another signal to the Trisolarans, revealing Earth's position. When the Trisolarans were already in a stalemate, another woman came along and sealed the fate of humanity for good.
It was a matter of time to be honest (mere decades). Technology progresses rapidly and someone somewhere would have done the same eventually without needing such high end radio.
This part of the book is the least interesting, to me at least!
@@abdullahalrasheed394 just delaying the sophon block by 20 years might have allowed humans to advance much more
Despite the solar system getting destroyed in a dimension strike, it's nice to know humanity ended up thriving...even if they did have to hide
I love your take on the role of humanity in the books- our race fights so hard for survival, only to realize time and again that we are not the biggest, baddest contenders and are outclassed at every turn. It rings so true to the hubris that humans have. I’m in awe of how Cixin Liu was able to broaden the scope of how I feel on a dark night looking up at the stars: I am so infinitesimally TINY. Humanity is so insignificantly TINY. And yet we have the nerve to think we’re special??
If you're interested in more books like Death's End, sort of "reality warping cosmic wars with humans as bit players told in a deeply thematic way", there's a whole series that does that called Faction Paradox. It's _technically_ a spinoff of some Doctor Who novels, but it's basically fully standalone.
I just finished this and I'm just soo depressed! Like profoundly so. I had no idea I was going to be reading something like this when I started the first book... Why does everything have to die....
Remembrance of humanity's past was so good that I immediately wanted to start over and read it again when I finished it. And after months of reading nearly two books a week, I'm at a loss for what to read next because nothing compares.
The way you describe this book reminds me of the manga Teraformers. And the nightmares that persisted after.
Great review! Are you also going to read The Redemption of Time, the fourth book in the A Three-Body Problem series?
I read the trilogy years ago, and then I covered the Three-Body Problem and the Dark Forest a few time after, but not the Death's End, the third book gave me the chilling and I don't want to retake that feeling ever again.
the ending has written at first book, we are bugs, which could be seen as the least significant by the other advanced being in the dark forest, but bugs survive.
the character of Cheng Xin, clearly demonstrate the possibility, at some point that the future of mankind could very possible be at the tip of The Most Unfit person, it happened in the history and it will keep happening.
@@AITryOut-Tutorial Well, humanity choose emotions over logic, they choose her over Wade over and over again. They ignored natural selection and that’s why those immersed in emotions got wiped out by the dual vector foil. Those on the fleeing ships choose natural selection and this made humanity persist to the end of times. The same is true for all other civilizations.
The Author wanted to deliver this message in the most horrific and nightmarish way.
Also, humanity has a short memory, so despite the many chances we had we still rejected the idea of interstellar travel and spreading our eggs all over the place instead of cramping it on Earth and the Solar System. This prohibition could have been understandable at the beginning of the Crisis Era. But it was utterly unacceptable when humanity mastered the technology for large self-sustaining spaceships.
@@abdullahalrasheed394 I can't say I agree with you 100%, but most of part I am with you. The reason we can make conclusion about the whole book and even humanity is we have God's angle to overlook the whole thing. but historically speaking, for all our history, we only have narrow angle to make our decision. most of people thought that they made the best decision ever they could do. If in the end, it wasn't, everyone takes hit. It just the way it is, and it will always be this way. Once they thought Luoji was right, and then switched to support Chengxin. Wallfacer Plan was executed, and then abandoned, and executed again. All of these are saying one thing, people are shortsighted, not by choice, but by destiny.
@@AITryOut-Tutorial Well said and I totally agree with you on this point. We can't judge decisions that were made based on a narrow angle.
However, even if you applied all kinds of excuses, and exhausted all reasons to give someone the benefit of the doubt, you will still not find one, remotely, good reason for the prohibition of leaving the solar system during the Deterrence Era and afterwards. I'm struggling to understand the logic behind this prohibition during such times and I think this is a major flaw in the whole book story.
I honestly despise the second sword holder character. Every single pivotal decision she made, was the wrong decision. I'm especially annoyed by her decision to throw Wade under the bus. Like, no sh*t Sherlock! Of course this is going to bite you in the ass later; Wade was the only one doing anything that could remotely save humanity over the long haul!
I absolutely LOVED this book, and I agree with most of your review!
Great video as always Murphy :) I really enjoyed this trilogy. Each book was so good in different ways
Book 3 was pure cosmic horror. Remarkable series! This one is a reread for sure!
Just found your channel, great stuff! Have you read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson? If you like grand scope science fiction and big ideas with a little more character focus, check it out!
Completed the book yesterday. I woke up today and sat down to collect my thoughts and summarize the book. I had the same reaction-it's so expansive and covers many timelines. Since I read them back to back in quick succession, my brain just clubbed many parts of this book with the second, and it felt like one really long book. The author just went bonkers in the last few chapters. [Spoiler!] Personally, he could have just ended with Chong Sheen meeting Galactic humans. But he had to go further with pocket universes, reboot of the big bang. God!! It was just mind-breaking. I need a separate science video to help me learn and visualize all the science stuff that happened in this book! All in all, great stuff, and I think this trilogy is the local maximum when it comes to Sci-Fi. What do you recommend I try next? I have "The Ministry for the Future" in my mind, but I am still thinking...
Thanks for the synopsis! What did you think of the Netflix series, or I maybe the one released a few years ago if you watched it?
I didn’t understand how the humans aboard blue space and gravity were able to get to Cheng Xin’s star before she did when they had sub light speed ships. I also didn’t understand how over 18000000 years past when Cheng Xin and the other dude were stuck in light speed for 16 days when earlier the 50 hour light speed trip to the star had only take like 260 years. I think 16 days is like 300 some hours how did that equate to so much longer… are these plot holes? 🤔
Have you ever thought that the author "cloned" himself inside Tianming's brain, and that the stories, instead of being stories, are a kind of prophecy, that only a higher dimensional entity like him (Liu Cixin) could decipher it? He himself said that he was inside a time crunch, and I think that in his style, it wouldn't be crazy at all. That's what I've been thinking for hours after having finished the trilogy for the first time. Awaiting instructions.
I find there are a lot of similarity between this book and Hail Mary project, the main characters both got sent on this suicide mission without any knowledge of what would happen to them, and they both become friends with the aliens
I really enjoyed the sci-fi concepts of this book, but the decision making of the second sword holder throughout the book made her absolutely insufferable. If the human race really depended on someone like that, we would never get off this planet
It's been scientifically proven that any summary of Death's End must be at least as long as Death's End.
Just finished the last book… wow.. what a book. I think my favorite moments would be the flyby of Europa and of course the 4th dimension expedition to the tomb.
I’m kind of with your Dad about the ending, but not as disappointed. Seemed to me that the end of the story wasn’t going to be with the relaunching of the universe but rather with having hope that it would but understanding on a deep level that it was really going to die.
Great vid. I look forward to reading the series.
Meeerphy! You need to read Baoshus' 'The Redemption of Time'. He is a protege of cixin liu and was allowed to write the story of... You know, the brain in the spacejar. I personally loved it too and it expands on Deaths End in a nice way!
Baoshu is a fanfiction writer who got his story "canonized" because Liu had already lost interest in the series.
great outfits… and nice explanation
I love this book, but I absolutely hated the ending, I don't think that humanity had to be the best at something and rise above, the notion the we are insignificant I quite actually liked, but the ending was extremely boring for me, even reading through the final 100 pages felt like a task and not like an enjoyment of a story that I liked.
to me it was interesting that the trisolorians ended up having maybe their first “technological explosion” (developing the light speed ships) after expending time with us and adopting some of the human culture (they were right to fear us, ahaha)
Can we please return the Voyager? 🙈
Chang xin riled me up for sure, like to say she just makes a mistake doesn’t feel like it does her failures justice 😂
I wondered why he wrote it like that
Some of my thoughts:
1. You need to have read the previous books to understand this book. There is no summary or reminder in the book. Many characters and situations from the previous books are mentioned without any explanation. In my opinion that is a flaw that could be easily corrected with a few paragraphs of explananation. I read the first 2 books a few months ago, but I don't remember the details.
2. It is difficult to believe that the swordholder would be a single person. It is much more plausible that many leaders, presidents or prime-ministers of the world would all be swordholders and be able to press the button. And the deterrence weapon would only be activated if all, or at least a majority of the swordholders pressed the button. Putting the fate of the entire human race on a single person is too inplausible.
3. Many elements of the book are based on real science. It is difficult to know which elements are from the author, and which elements are from other authors or scientists. I wished there was an a bibliography with all the sources.
4. There is no mention of a Noah's Ark, at least in this book. Maybe there is in the previous books? I don't remember.
If humanity were doomed to extinction, it is quite probable they would try to build and launch spaceships that worked as Noah's Ark.
Such spaceship should have libraries with most human knowledge, and frozen embryos and seeds of most animals and vegetables, including several human embryos. The purpose would be that hopefully an advanced civilization would intercept and be able to revive the embryos, so humanity could survive and rebuild somewhere in the Cosmos.
A more advanced Noah's Ark would have artificial incubators able to develop and give birth to the human embryos, and robot nannies able to take care, raise and educate the babies.
An even more advanced Noah's Ark would have human adults in hibernation.
A Noah's Ark is not that difficult to build and it is feasible, at least in its simplest form, with today's technology. Many arks can be built and launched and if at least one of them succeeds, then the human civilization could still exist and thrive somewhere in the galaxy.
5. If an alien civilization were to try to conquer the Earth, would they even bother to talk to humans? Do humans bother to talk to ants that might be living on a property where humans want to build a new house? Humans just build the house and kill any ants that stand in the way. Just like ants are completely ignored by humans, an alien civilization would just ignore humans and just kill any human that stood in the way. So to survive all you have to do is not to stand in the way of the aliens. The only problem is that aliens could want to occupy the entire planet, and possibly there would be nowhere to go to survive, except maybe outer space. And humans fleeing Earth would probably be completely ignored by the aliens.
1) All three books of this trilogy is already very thick and Cixin Liu intend and style is not about individual but the bigger circle and picture in the grand scheme of the universe and purpose of life in beyond a single insignificant solar system.
2) Do you have any ideas how much uncertain and complexity whenever involve more than one individual? The intended designed outcome will be very unpredictable. A good example is the two-way relationship between couples.
3) majority of the hard-science are the Cixin Liu alone since it is based on the latest cutting-edge scientific idea of our modern time. He has engineering background and work in that environment field for many years. How much can you say of previous famous sci-fi authors.
4) Human advancement haven't reach to that point yet at the moment of the storyline due to travel speed limitation and energy potential, plus the whole universe is a dark forest. The chance of encountering another benevelant alien lifeform that use their own resources to revive humanity. Even if they did, it would be in small number to be used for study. The closest star system is 4 light-year and is already occupied by Tri-solarian, and even they have to take many years to reach our solar system en-masses and have to take 3 stages in progression of expenses and scale.
5) Human don't bother communication with ant because this specie was known since ancient time and no more useful information can be exchange among the two species due to lack of a viable communication methods. Human already assume the role of domination over ant (an any other Earth species) and see no threat from them.
Tri-solarian attempt at communication with human in order to influence and manipulate into slowing down human scientific and military progress to ensure 100% chances of victory when the close proximity physical war begin.
Great review! Just finished the trilogy for my second time, and nothing really comes close