Why is Space Malicious? | Three Body Problem Series
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2024
- Warning, this video has spoilers. Cixin Liu's Remembrance of Earth’s Past trilogy describes the journey of mankind through 8 distinct Era’s. The Common Era, the era most familiar to the one you and I know, before they knew what awaited within the dark forest beyond the stars. The year 201X C.E. or 2010 AD would mark the end of the common era. The Epoch C.E. stood for Crisis Era. This was the era directly following humanity’s discovery that not only was there other intelligent life in the universe, but it was vicious and hungry, determined to snuff out the human race and claim the earth for its own. The crisis era would last from 201X CE to 2208 AD which would mark the start of the Deterrence Era, which would last 62 years to be followed by a brief period of time known as the Post-Deterrence Era which lasted approximately two years from 2270 - 2272. The ages that followed were, in order, The Broadcast Era from 2272-2332, The Bunker Era from 2333-2400, the Galaxy Era which began in 2273 and continued indefinitely, and finally the Black Domain Era for the DX3906 Star System which last from 2687 through 18,906,416. We will discuss all of these eras in future videos but in this one we will hone in on perhaps the most crucial era of all for humanity, The Deterrence Era, which began with the Wallfacer known as Lou Ji.
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Imagine being able to just go, “Hey, watch this”, send a signal out that pings a stars location, and watching a light speed energy weapon come out of nowhere and turn that entire star system into a nebula. I mean, that’s quite the “spell”.
It's scary that even now, if u.s, or Russia or China, n.korea, etc, if one if them decided, hey I don't like (Insert country here), watch this!
Then with the press of a button, a bang, & a bright light, boom! Said country, & the millions of ppl in it.....Gone! In a blink! -Scary
What? If it was only going light speed, it might take centuries to get to the star system.
@@nortonwedge and then years for us to see it, & the light to hit our eyes 😆
@@nortonwedge my idea is it either slowed down before impact, came through an FTL method, or was somehow already nearby
Honestly the spell is what broke my suspension of disbelief in the series. If you could anonymously radio for an orbital strike on someone, then rather than a dark forest, the universe would be alive with constant tattling, because if earth can get away with it, so can anyone else.
honestly the fact that Luo Ji announcing "fuck around and find out" worked AND gave him all the control in the situation is both hilarious and cold as shit
You're a Chinese plant
You're a Chinese plant
Lol
Lol
Dude was a straight up bad ass, balls as big as Jupiter hahahaha
When the “darkest era in human history” starts with the earth’s environment *healing,* you KNOW it’s going to be something good.
Oh god….. I have to read this shit.
This is frequently the case in apocalypses. Nuclear apocalypses are kinda unique in their natural bleakness, right up there with the earth freezing over or the heat death of the universe.
Nature is a pest and an enemy. Some of the people who have never interracted with nature are deranged lunatics and forgot that. They will try to bring up that some limited contact with "nature" can be harmless, completely forgetting that the "nature" is artificial, man made, our ancestors slaughtered all the dangerous species they were able to slaughter
we still have to slaughter a few, microscopic organisms, mosquitoes, things that prey on humans, and are hard to exterminate due to how small they are. What morons think of as "nature" is so nice because it is a manmade environment, all the forests and natural parks of europe and america are manmade, cleared of all natural danger, all natural design, and in almost all cases, secondary man made forest, not primordial ones, even the trees in "nature" are man made. Because of this, deranged people will sometimes assume that what they see in a national park is "nature", and as such that nature is good
But that is a lie, english is a disgraceful language, words are never well defined, nature can mean the natural world, in which case all human actions are part of nature, but in this case it is more useful to define nature as everything that was not the outcome of the conscious actions of a human, under that definition, all of nature is either an enemy, or imperfect, everything you like about "nature", is according to your own human brain and value system, as well as your hard wired genetic instincts. The way you judge things (illogical as it may be) is completely human. Under our definition, it is completely unatural. You know the things you like about "nature", those things are completely arbitrary, and nature does not obey your preferences, as such it is always possible to modify nature to be closer to your very human conception of something good, which is exactly what the past generations of humans, people mighter and more sane than you, did, bending nature to their will, destroying it and replacing with life of their own design, which created this nice man made "nature", which is what you like, but just like them, you could see a few things that could be better about nature, so that even in your deeply confused and unfonctionnal mind, you still know that nature is not good.
Wait, where did it say it was healing I forgot
Lou Ji addressing sophon is a very badass part of this book.
There was this Sci Fi author in Argentina, H.G. Oesterheld, that in the 70s wrote a sci fi graphic novel which explored a very interesting concept: What if in case of an alien invasion, humanity was not united in their fight against the aliens, and instead some of Earth's nation states decided to simply ally themselves with the aliens, helping them conquer the other nation states that would fight the aliens?
In the graphic novel we see some nameless alien armada land and build a base in Antartica. Because of these, all of humanity calls them "the Antarticans". The Antarticans are clearly hostile, so every major power with nuclear capabilities on the planet launch their nuclear arsenal towards the Antartican's base. This does nothing at all. The Antarticans then destroy two major cities, one in Russia and one in the United States, explaining that all of Earth had to surrender to them or more cities would be destroyed, and give humanity 10 minutes to do so. Every country then agrees to surrender, and maybe negotiate some sort of deal that would allow them to live. The Antarticans then say that there aren't that many of them, and that what they want is a piece of Earth, not all of it, one continent would be enough, but not Antartica. They say that all of South America must be given to them to live in and manage in any way they see fit, without interference from other countries. In return, the Antarticans will share SOME of their technology (not all of it) with the two major powers of the time, Russia and the United States. The only ones to protest these terms are the leaders of South American nations, and some African leaders too, but they are promptly ignored. In fact, when the president of the Congo, a highly advanced country scientifically in this time, assures that the Congo has developed a device that can penetrate the Antarticans defenses on their main base undetected and destroy it, thus saving everyone, the United States proceed to nuke every major city in the Congo, explaing that South America is a small price to pay to the Antarticans if it means becoming even more powerful technologically speaking and thus more wealthy than the rest of the world. This attack on the Congo is also used as a deterrent for any other African nation that might want to complain about the deal with the Antarticans.
So South America is left to their own devices, never getting any help, in their fight against the Antartican invaders using guerrilla tactics. The Antarticans also try to bribe different people in South American nations to sway them on their side, using them as collaborators to betray the others, but the novel never explains if the bribes worked or not.
That's actually a major flaw I see in most Science Fiction, a extraterrestrial invasion doesn't not necessarily mean a enemy of Humankind no more than all the expansive empires of Earth did, maybe they like some ideologies and not others, maybe the war it's about some resource or adding some nations into their commonwealth, it doesn't need to mean all Humans are destined to unite or die fighting together against them.
I am from Argentina and never heard of this novel!
How is it called?
Sounds super interesting
This book sounds very interesting, I'd like to check out!
Is the novel you are describing called "The Eternaut"? I found this with a quick Google search but would like confirmation
Edit: OP has clarified that the story is called "La Guerra de Los Antartes"
@@mikehawk4204 It's a famous Argentinian comic called "The Eternaut" Two versions of it exist. The original version was drawn by Francisco Solano López while there's a shorter, more concise remake version drawn by the late great Alberto Breccia.
So basically, humanity has two possible futures:
Dune - We are alone in the universe
Three Body Problem - We are not alone in the universe
And both are equally terrifying prospects
I think Quinn explained that in the Dune series, alien life was not the focus. Aside from the sandworms. Maybe there is intelligent life in the Dune universe, but we'll never know.
But yes, the Three Body Problem prospect of intelligent life is both humbling and terrifying.
@@mullerpotgieter I would much rather be in the Dune universe than the Three Body Problem universe.
@@gdhuertas07 me too, bro! at least in the dune universe humanity isn't a helpless creature. in the three body problem trilogy we are being treat like bugs all along.
@@arnoldrivas4590
Leto II ruled a multi-galactic empire. There is alien life in Dune, just not "intelligent" alien life.
Leto II even trolled future humanity by building a construct on a world to make it seem extraterrestrial only for them to find out it was Leto's doing.
9:40 I find it warming in this hyper cynical series that, despite Luo Ji completely aware of cosmic sociology and the Dark Forest, that he felt the need to pray that he wasn't destroying a planet with life. In a universe where all life is a threat: sparing a civilization is the ultimate form of compassion.
Or foolishness.
@@JustJoellly cause folding reality in on itself just in case there may be somebody over there is sooooo smart
@@hastur_kinginyellow5310 did you not watch the video? Destroying a civilization before it has the opportunity to technologically progress in any way is purely a tactical move. From your perspective, folding reality is not a smart move, but for a species that can alter its own dimensionality, folding reality is clearly a necessity in their minds to ensure their technological superiority remains unchallenged.
@@hastur_kinginyellow5310 My brother in christ if your empire exists through six FUCKING SIX dimensional collapses do you think a seventh is going to be a major problem?
Especially considering the thing you're forgetting. The species that did that was in a war with other civilizations that ALSO had the technology to fold reality in on itself. It was considered an inevitability, and the only reason they used the technology sparingly was for practicalities sake.
They can be as tactful as they want. There is nothing smart about it. Eventually there will be one dimension left. Then where the super smart guys gonna go then. Burning the house down to kill who might be in it, will only leave you trapped in the basement .
Honestly after reading the Dark Forest i feel like the human species really needs to start focusing on a much bigger picture
I think this version of universe is true, that's why observe no life form in space because they are all hiding
No thats not the truth, any advanced intergalactic civilisation would be able to observe any civilisation that is not developed and determine their behaviours. There's also the advanced understanding of a developing species that they would understand wars are part of even their own history. Advanced Life is the rarest resource in the universe it would make no sense to destroy it. @polaris1985
@@EzraMerr like you said advanced civilization can scan the universe and observe primitive civilizations but at the same time they are hiding their own civilization from discovery and probably might stop us from ever achieving advanced status ourselfs, if there are a lot of civilizations in the galaxy I doubt they will waste so much resources on supressing all of them, they might just destroy some and keep an eye on the rest. You are forgetting the true nature of humans is to destroy and rule over others so why would galatic civilizations be any differenent if not worse. I doubt with HUMANS mindset we can allow anyone to rule over us so destruction is inevitable.
The universe is unkind and earthlings take their home for granted. Trisolarians are super united. They do not waste time and energy on useless internal wars, selfish gains and striving for meaningless egoistic achievements. Everything they do is for the benefit of the whole civilisation and that's a major reason why they progress. That's high intelligence.
@@EzraMerrI also think the concept of 'Dark Forest' makes little sense. Any civilization advanced enough to send a solar system/planet destroying weapon from lightyears away with pinpoint accuracy presumably also has the ability to image said solar system or planet with enough fidelity or would work towards developing technology that allows them to locate such systems. I mean, if you devote your entire civilization to the concept of eradicating any intelligent life in the universe, it makes little sense that you develop accurate interstellar weapons and not a means of proactively locating targets of opportunity without waiting for passive radiowave transmission or whatever. The concept in the books of fear of resource competition also makes little sense. The Trisolarians are interested in living on the Earth as a replacement for their planet, so their plan makes sense. A habitable world that meets your needs would be a rare resource. But aliens deciding to delete your entire solar system because of fear of resource competition makes less sense - unless you develop FTL travel, resources in other systems are only going to be useful in the system itself or if they are in very close proximity with your home system then you might be able to bring them back.
When I started this series I imagined that the only was to stop the trisolarans from destroying humanity entirely would eventually to come down threatening to destroy the earth itself in an attempt to deny them their prize, but the actual solution was a lot more morbid than I imagined. What I'm trying to say is that this series is dark and I love it.
Scorched earth
@@ralphtiangco6318which happens to my ass after taco bell
humans are dark.
One Guy want to destroy the Solar System
Oh boy thats little and cute on the book scale
One of the Wallfacers though of that, it went haywire and he was eventually stoned to death by his own people.
The idea of being a wall facer is seriously insane to think about like you could just wake up and everyone you know everything you did this for is gone but you still have a job to do and have to help out people you may have never even had a chance to meet or know of it's truly a cool concept
Id do it tomorrow if i could LOL :D
I saw it as the equivalent of being a messiah, which Luo Ji did refer to himself. Unimaginable influence and power, but in reality, a sacrifice to mankind's sins
(Spoiler)
You have to doff a fractal of Fedoras to Luo Ji for doing that and then his next thankless "task" of Sword Hollder for so damn long. And no thanks either.. And wtf is Mundicide? Need to look that up.
n., the destruction of an entire world.
Pretty obvious I suppose.. Lol!
wouldn't it be better if they pick people who have no friends or family to do the job? How did they pick these wall facers?
People gather around that which we don’t understand.
I genuinely think the only way to unite humanity IRL is to discover an extraterrestrial species (ideally a threat).
I know I’m spoiling the books for myself, but I can’t stop watching your videos man!!
Honestly they're better than the books in my opinion.
Doing exactly this right now
Thats a smart way to circumvent the issue. Mutually assured destruction for both parties. A suicide pact of cooperation. Cooperate, or we both die.
Enforced, yet stable, peace.
More three body content please 🙏🏽 absolutely love this series and glad you're giving it the attention it deserves.
I read (no...I absorbed) all three books and yet I have questions. Thank you Quinn for this series of videos. You are a wonderful person.
It would be cool to still have a ASOIAF video once every blue moon
@@internetera1523 still haven't read those or bothered with the show either. Maybe I'll give em a shot if George ever finishes them 🤷♂️
while the books are great and his videos as well. I think that this author shouldnt be given any coverage as he supports the genocide currently commited by the PCR on the uyghurs
@@sultanbaba1230 oof that's not a good look 😔
Minor nitpick: the Doomsday Battle is what destroyed most of the fleet. The Battle in Darkness was actually the interhuman conflict that occurred later at the edge of the Solar system. Great content as usual!
Neat…
DUDE....SPOILER
@@arielathomo229 I'm not spoiling anything Quinn isn't already spoiling in the video.
@@arielathomo229 bro you spoiled the book yourself.
It was you Barry, I did nothing. You spoiled the book yourself!
That slow build up to the battle in darkness is something else.
After listening to you describing the Trisolaran fleet destroying Earth's fleet in a video a while back, I immediately stopped the video and ordered the whole series. Just started and finished the first book last week, and I'm about to start The Dark Forest. The first book was excellent and I'm super excited to finish this series. Then I'll be back to watch these videos!
You do great work, duder.
Oh, The Dark Forest is SO good - the best book in a truly excellent series, IMO.
I'm starting to consider getting the trilogy thanks to Quinn's videos as far as I can observe, from everyone who have read it, that is a really good sci fi series.
@@markkuz69 The series is good, but the second book (Dark Forest) in particular is an absolute masterpiece.
I'm on Death's End currently and so far my favorite just due to my likes but The Dark Forest was incredible.
@@JohnCThomas24 so the order would be the 3 body problem, the dark forest and last death end?
The Dark Forest final was incredible. Luo dug his own grave and made an ultimatum that will, if executed, destroy both civilizations. It was incredibly well written, very powerful.
Honestly, I feel like this is the true final to the story. The 3rd book, while being interesting to read, was more like "what if" continuation of the story.
Absolutely agreed. Luo Ji holding the two civilisations at a stalemate was an incredible moment. I too consider The Three-Body Problem and The Dark Forest as Act I and Act II, with Death’s End being the extension.
You’re absolutely correct. Liu, when interviewed by the press, revealed that he actually planned to end the series at book2 since it did not sell well at all at that time. That’s why he killed off Zhang Beihai at book 2 despite so much effort in portraying him.
But he was gladly surprised that the series started to sell and thus the third book.
@@SpyFromMarsZeus I'm glad he did, cause death's end is my favorite of the three. While I liked Dark Forest, I prefer the explosion of ideas and the leaps in time in Death's End that made me turn pages like a madman wanting to know how far it goes lmao
in fact,he was going to end this series after the dark forest
@@hdl9756 I didn't know that. But it makes sense if it's true.
Read these books because of your videos, and found your channel because of the Dune content. Great sci-fi, but the tone you set in your videos is perfect and makes the broader concepts in the writing even scarier.
Keep up the good work and I hope you never run out of commentary for Quinn's Ideas. You're a natural story teller. I'm not a graphic novel person, but I will be picking up your book to enjoy something truly original
Same
Same same, these vids plus the impending release of Dune got me to reread and continue that series as well as The Three Body Problem
Quinn is definitely the best on RUclips
Same!
he has a book? dayum
Luo ji, the greatest wallfacer and swordholder.
Man, i am such a big fan of that man.
Fun fact: luo ji deterrence power was around 90% but there is another character called wade whose deterrence power was of 100%, trisolaris considered him as a real devil.
What does it mean, having 100% deterrence power? Like would he have been more ruthless in using the sword?
@@amanjanko3950 i guess so
@@amanjanko3950 That means that there's a 100 percent chance that the swordholder will carry out the deterrence threat if trisolarians act agressively
Yep Thomas Wade, either a hero or a monster depends on who you talk to, is who you are thinking of
@@amanjanko3950 It means he would have pushed the button for sure 100% if deterrence failed.
Quinn, you are a genius at communicating that which you enjoy and appreciate about the works you discuss. I have always enjoyed your content, but as a creator you've recently taken things to the next level. This video is brilliant- the dialogue, artwork, and musical score are all top-shelf. I had already read the Dune series, including Brian Herbert's novels, which is how I learned about your channel, and thanks to you, I'm now privy to authors such as Cixin Liu and Adrian Tchaikovsky. Thank you so much, and as always, I'm looking forward to your future videos. Good luck in all your endeavors.
20:48 - You know, the feeling of relief that I experienced when I first read this ultimatum was hardly comparable.
You inspired me to pick up the first book after coming across one of your videos quite a few months ago. Just finished Deaths End and its gotta be one of my favorite sci-fi series ever. Cixin Liu’s writing and tone can be very cold and calculated, while other times deeply poetic. The contrast makes for some seriously great sci-fi horror.
Just finished Death End myself , it was a great series . The writing at times was culturally difficult to parse , but on the whole I enjoyed the challenge . Good books .
Same. Quinn first exposed me to this series and I've subjected my coworkers to listening to the audiobooks on the way to jobsites for the last couple weeks. Just finished it today. It's going to take a while for me to fully internalize it all.
I'll be probably minority, but I found Book 1 and Book 2 quite underwhelming. To be fair 2nd half of Dark Forest was pretty good.
But Death's End, wow what a read. One of the best books I've ever read.
Obviously Book 1 was needed for context and to explain the Trisolaris. For me it would have been better as 2 Book series. Largely reduxed book 1 combined with slightly reduxed Book 2.
Book 3 was perfect!
I've had a terrible week and this video allowed me to escape into a new world for a while, thank you for the amazing work you put in.
Me too.
Same
*Luo Ji is a hero.*
The respect I have for him and the honor of his dedication is deeply sacred.
His tenacity and unwavering fortitude is what I would train and hope to have every moment of my life.
A true warrior will never hesitate to kill for the sake of his mission and Luo Ji chose his mission wisely.
Your postulations on sci fi are incredibly well done, going further than the usual regurgitation of common tropes and obvious plot devices. You seamlessly begin a discussion behind the major concepts and themes behind everything you cover. I have not read this series yet but from your coverage, it seems like some of the greatest scifi I've heard of in a long time. This channel deserves to be bigger.
On a side note, think about doing sci fi narrations, and if you do I'd be happy to lend my voice pro bono for any additional characters.
Just finished The Dark Forest book, and wow it's one of the best sci-fi books I've ever read. I'm starting with the third book tonight and looking forward to continuing this truly epic story :)
Have fun it's a wild ride :)
I also just started reading Death's End tonight, been reading it for7 and a half hours and couldn't put it down until I finally forced myself to. I find it hard to describe to vastness of the concepts in this series, it's like forcing a perspective as vast as the universe into a feeble human mind. It's a masterpiece.
I’m almost done with “Death’s End”, incredible series. Thank you Quinn for introducing it to me and many others!!
This series has been amazing, please continue it!
I'm glad to see another video on this series! You put me on to this series and it's definitely my favorite sci-fi series now! Cixin Liu has been very impactful in how I view space travel and out future now.
I see your new video, I watch. I'm a simple man.
And liking before the video started
Seriously appreciate the work you put into these videos. I love the Remembrance of Earths Past, and you really nail all the points I've found fascinating about Liu's work!
Your content convinced me to read this series! The more you post the more I LOVE it! I talk it up all of the time and have convinced others to read it. Thanks for all you do!
More Three Body Problem! That's what introduced me to your channel, and the book is still bouncing around in my head. One of the best sci-fi books I've read.
I originally started watching for your dune content, but I am pleasantly surprised with the steady new content. I wouldn’t have heard about A LOT of science fiction if not for your videos
I leave a like everytime and try to comment here and there. It’s not much, but i appreciate your content and it’s something
Listened to your first video about this series a few months back and immediately picked up this series. I finished it in about a week. Love your videos.
I've heard of the three body problem series a couple times but this was the first time someone really got me interested in it. great video!
Just discovered the channel - LOVE LOVE LOVE your content! Thank you so much for sharing your analysis with us here so generously. I was blown away by the books - these videos are giving me LIFE!
I absolutely ADORE your content about this series and I cannot get enough of it!
This content the most captivating I have come across. Time slows, urgency disappears and interest never wavers.
I couldn't recall what I had seen on YT that had made order these books. Rediscovering this channel is the best thing YT has gifted me.
I have a sense of belonging and feel privileged to be here amongst your audience.
Your commentary and narration of The Three Body series and Dune are always amazing.
I've read the series few years ago, but only relatively recently realized one stupidly simple thing, which allowed me to appreciate Cixin Liu's subtle genius even more - development of story for all three books (TBO and DF especially) is pretty much unwillingly masterminded by just single person, Ye Wenje, due to personal tragedies of her life, and forgiveness toward childishly cruel humanity as whole later in life. She is one of the most believable written human personalities I ever encountered, despite not even being developed that much throughout the series.
Yeah and the butterfly effect that goes with it all the effects of one little cause most of us see in our lives all the hardships all the bad shot we see it’s why the governments give us terrible food to make us weaker so we can’t revolt against what is to come
OMG QUINN!!! You put me on to the 3 body series and it rocked my foundation - it’s my fave sci fi now. Now I get a 30 min video about it?? You spoil me so 😫
It is clear that Cixin Liu is a genius and that he did his homework on basic deterrence theory, but I have a few criticisms of Cosmic Sociology based on the international relations theory known as Defensive Neorealism:
1. This theory assumes that civilizations will keep progressing in levels of power so that they can project this power across space with ease, and do so in a manner that makes annihilation of a civilization easier than conquest. This is flawed, because it ignores both logistics and the fact that technological development is often tied to crises of survival. So if civilizations do not expand, which is necessary for this line of thought to work (see point 3), then it is unlikely they could acquire the required resources for infinite technological progress, or at least the resources needed to sustain this power indefinitely.
2. You can only be sure of success in a first strike if the enemy is far below your “survival level”, because if they can survive your strike, they will move and/or look for you. And there’s no guarantee they have don’t have a way of tracking your attack back to you, since technological progress being near infinite makes almost anything possible given enough time, even if it seems completely absurd to you at the moment. And if the enemy is at or beyond your survival, it must be assumed the same is true in destructive power. Moreover, they could learn the truth of cosmic sociology, and project your location to the rest of the universe. Since civilizations that do not understand cosmic sociology and/or are weak in survival and destructive power are not going to be threats for some time, it would be best to simply leave them alone anyway. Since you cannot be sure that this is the case when a civilization is discovered, it is best to leave them be. There is an argument in the Dark Forrest that technological explosions can happen in an instant (in terms of universal time, which unlike us, measures itself by billions of years), meaning by the time communication is received, relativity and/or the time it takes for light or waves to travel the distance, a weaker civilization could have jumped ahead of the initially stronger one. This still does not work, because the same concept would mean that this would only apply to civilizations that are “close” to each other’s level of power (that could be dozens, hundreds, or even several thousands of years). Are we really prepared to assume that a single explosion could close a massive gap such as a million years? Moreover, given the premises of the overall argument, we must assume that this technological progress, whether uneven or not, is universal. Therefore, it is not as if the stronger civilization is standing still whilst the weaker one progresses rapidly. And as technology, knowledge and resources increase, so do potential for an increase in each one of these. Therefore, while an explosion may seem impressive during the initial phases of a civilization’s progress, this is only because it is continuously escaping primitivity in a sense. This is illusory, and so cannot allow for a logical transition to the idea that a civilization far behind another can catch up at all, let alone in a time that will worry the stronger of the two.
3. Expansion and the development of alliances would limit the ability of other civilizations to destroy you in one blow.
4. Destruction is both economically and systemically inefficient. Yes, survival and sovereignty are always going to be prioritized, but these are almost always choices made in crises, because of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs; when the immediate need to protect such things is not apparent, a civilization will focus on less pressing issues, but those that are ultimately useful in the long run. Moreover, the political system does not like overreach, because balance of power is key to orienting both individual state actors and their interrelations.
5. As explained in Death’s End, such destructive conflicts, the constant progress of genocidal weaponry and the ability of lower dimensional species to best survive by changing the special environment so only they may live in it, can have a disastrous, even apocalyptic effect on the universe. Who is to say that advanced civilizations do not realize this pattern, and seek to modify not only their own behaviour, but others as well, to stop this terrible cycle? After all, what is the point of survival now, when it makes death in the future guaranteed? Look at climate change right now: sure it has been difficult getting the fast-paced and radical changes many desire, but the world is indeed uniting over this existential threat. Such threats do not eliminate conflict, tensions, the threat of annihilation, or denial of the evidence, but they do decrease them considerably.
6. Who is to say that advanced civilizations are still capable of being destroyed? Perhaps they are pure energy, or not tied to a star, or exist at the quantum level, etc?
It seems to me that some of your concerns have been given an answer in the books
@@docgonzobordel Really? Could you be more specific? I’m curious
@@andreasfoerster772 It's quite complex to answer each of your points since I'm sick at the present time and not an english native speaker.. And you wrote a lot ^^ Point 3 : these alliances exists, but space is very populated, and some species just see extermination of possible threats (young technological societies) as we would see a cockroaches's nest destruction.. It's the case of the entities who destroy the Solar System in the books, and they are themselves at war with another civilization (or group of civilizations). Some of your points may find an answer in the fact ***Spoilers !*** That some civilizations are so ancients that they knew a time where the Universe was of more than 10 dimensions, our present one being the "residue" of billions of years of local war and exterminations by the use of dimensional weapons... Another point : there are alliances of civilizations that try to stabilize all that mess, or are in pursuit of others goals, but as I said, the Universe is a very populated place.. I can only advise you to read these books, seriously.
@@docgonzobordel I’ve read all the books, so don’t worry about spoilers. As for your response to point 3 that would go against one of the premises of cosmic sociology that everything is done primarily for security purposes. We don’t feel threatened by cockroaches. As explained in the series and the video above, the point of destroying the inferior species is to prevent them from becoming too powerful in the future. And I’ve addressed that in depth in my arguments. If what you say is true, that alliances do exist, but simply there are so many civilizations that someone must behave as expressed in cosmic sociology, well then the theory stops being a law doesnt it? It’s just a “well maybe”, rather than a law of social interaction. And as I already noted, I think the alliances would stomp these rogue actors who try to destroy anything they come into contact with - just like how countries do the same with rogue states like North Korea, Iran and more recently, Russia
@Rudolf Hillard Actually alliances work precisely when there is an imbalance of power. The purpose of alliances is what’s called “balancing”, that is, many groups ganging up to protect themselves from a potentially bigger fish, so to speak. But yes, alliances can form to allow for imbalances, such as a group joining forces to take on an enemy they couldn’t defeat alone. However, the system will always balance because a new alliance will emerge to counter the initial one. I do not see why this would not occur at a cosmic level. You say because of supposedly vast differences in power, but I already addressed that issue in my initial post. And your analogy of guns makes no sense, because it took centuries for gunpowder weaponry to supersede other forms of weaponry. And any historian of war knows that it is never technology that is the only, or main driving force behind conflict and their outcomes
There are a lot of videos detailing/summarizing the Dark Forest theory, but this is hands down the best and most thorough treatment of it. Thanks Quinn!
Most videos on youtube I half-listen to in the background while playing games, I had no problems dedicating all of my conscious awareness to this video and had me leaning into the screen. Keep up the great work mate.
Such a great book series, thank you for covering it as much as you have 🙌🏽
I’m really enjoying this series, thank you for posting.
Don't know if you read these, but thank you so much for your work, friend. You put so much passion into explaining books and ideas I may not have read or contemplated, and it is greatly appreciated. There isn't enough time in this life for me to do all the work, and to have your words is a great asset, resource, and comfort. A kindred spirit I will never meet. Again, thank you.
Reading this trilogy was really unsettling. Also, I really enjoy your videos deconstructing and summarizing it. The analysis adds a lot.
What a coincidence. You are releasing the video on Dark forest the same day I finished reading the first book, The three body problem.
Thanks to you, I stared reading this series after watching your videos. Your narration is wonderful. Been following your channel for a while. You have previously convinced me to read Dune and Hyperion but now I enjoy three body problem series more.
I love how Quinn covers the end of the 2nd novel when the sophons make a deal with that guy. They insist he put his gun away.
Hell they even offer to contact local emergency services, lol. Brilliant.
This playlist is amazing! Please continue making videos about this book series.
I don't think I've been as hooked into a story/series synopsis/interpretation, this wonderful thing you do, perhaps ever. The day I finally pick up these books for myself draws ever closer, but till then, I eagerly await 😍
I love the confrontation between trisolarians and LuoJi! I literally got chills reading that. Please do another episode on Yun Tianming and his three tales!
I always thought it should have an instrumental version of "You can't always get what you want" just as it dawn's on the audience what Luo ji did, if that scene was ever put on screen. End the episode/movie with the song at full crescendo
Love the break downs!!! Read TTBP & TDF back to back earlier this year but haven’t been able to get past the first hand full of chapters of DE due to some life/work changes 😫 but..
Hoping I can finish it this summer.
It’s interesting that DE is written in like a timeline form. Looking forward to content on this!
I've started listening to The Three Body Problem than your readings from The Three Body Problem. Your explanation of game theory and the dark forest made it really clear how intriguing this series would be.
I've learnt about a few other novels and authors through your channel. Thanks for your work.
Having read this series specifically because of the introduction Quinn made on this channel, the books are fascinating sci-fi, and really well done. And yet, as a philosophical and sociological premise, their take is a bit extreme - peak Hobbesian red-in-tooth-and-claw.
I would start with the fact that our actual forests are not dark. They're not petting zoos, either, so no appeals here from me to Rousseau, the usual opposite of Hobbes, neither of whom survive current critique in the field of anthropology. But the important thing about sci-fi? It has a brilliant way of introducing a premise, and getting the conversation started. These novels accomplish exactly that.
Also, forests on earth are examples of complex mechanism, were lifeforms can exists not just in opposition but benifiting from eachother, so boiling it down to "Kill or be killed, nothing inbetween", is a very extreme View.
@@plinfan6541 Kinda. It's always a zero sum game no matter how you slice it. But interstellar scales just make it much more extreme and remove much of the nuance.
That was amazing! Three Body Problem is at the top of my reading list now. This would make such an awesome TV series.
It's debuting soon
@@riverplate0101there is one already on Amazon prime
I hope you were able to watch it
Netflix did it but ... im sorry, the show sucks for book readers.
Always look forward to your content. And like everything else you’ve put out… This does not disappoint.
Love how you break these concepts down, a layman of existential philosophy could not grasp the horror, but you make it so clear and concise with compromising the immensity of these thought experiments.
What I love about your videos is the tone and incantation makes it so you can get lost in it much like a book.
Just finished reading deaths end. This trilogy was riveting, cosmic horror at it's finest.
What a fantastic book series! I love your explanation of the bigger topics covered in it!
Quinn, you’re the man! Read the first book and just finished the Dark Forest because I wanted to watch these videos. You’re brilliant. Keep it up
I'm so happy i found this series. And slightly disappointed in myself for not listening to your advice about reading the books first! Thanks for the great content, been a while since i've been this hooked on anything on YT.
What’s brilliant about this series is that it reads like historical sci-fi in an almost Asimovian sense, but is really a meta commentary about how important communication and empathy are.
The Universe at large is not the Dark Forest: Consciousness is.
It is only through trust of the Other that we can achieve progress rather than mutual annihilation. This is demonstrated over and over again in these three novels. Whether by individual humans, Trisolaran influence, political fuckery, or “Devine” Intervention; socialism, not communism or capitalism wins in the very end.
@Rational Fanatic Socialists and Communists are eternal copers
Honestly its probably why this series annoys me so much despite being objectively good writing and world building. Because the lesson of communication is important is already ingrained in me. So all of the world building feels contrived. "Gee it sure is convenient every species that got big first all share the single human emotion of paranoia and literally nothing else." "It sure is convenient absolutely anything seems to be possible with technology except the one thing that might bring the universe back to a higher dimensional state which would make the dark forest less dark."
That's what keeps going through my head despite the idea that the universe used to have more dimensions but the space equivalent to a nuke constantly makes galactic existence just that much worse is an objectively cool concept
@Rational Fanatic Socialism or at least socialist policies have a great track record. It's communism that usually fails.
@@legojay14 exactly! The dark forest theory is flawed in that it requires absolutism to work. Absolutism on factors that aren't absolute such as social change. Heck, humans basically aren't absolute in this, yet all the Aliens are.
It demands that regardless of biological, social difference and their advancement, they can never be anything other than scared animals. This absolutism gets more ridiculous when you realized that the universe (well, dimension but for those living in the dimension, it is their universe) got destroyed a number of times, yet NOT ONE alien comes out and say "oy, we gotta stop this,"
But nope. Every alien is fine with a scorched earth(dimension) solution many many many times.
What's funny is that the dark forest theory is very easy to break. The super alien civilization that fired of the dimension folders could have been a guardian. Just go to civilizations, ally with them, broadcast a message of cooperation and bam! Problem solved. But nope. Its shoot first, ask never.
Very human thinking. Yet almost everyone that ascribe to the dark forest theory said that this is alien thinking. What. The. Heck.
@@secondsein7749 Not even human thinking. We might have mutually assured destruction but that's been working entirely because despite what fiction says. Our leaders really really don't wanna fucking use nukes on ourselves again. So dimensional strikes if even theorized would cause instant calls for banning and any research towards it called to be destroyed. It's especially telling when we're actually shown how aliens see the situation and their just passive "eh why not" and they only express mild sadness and disappointment at being made 2 dimensional. Like seriously if your entire cosmic horror relies on aliens all consistently having a fuck it attitude to killing other races. Why are humans different. Because we're not supposed to be different in cosmic horror. We're supposed to be woefully standard and not special literally to counter the rest of sci fi calling us special
Your take on this series is really good. One can even use to teach the concept of civilization throught human history.
Quinn this is amazing!
Haven't read the books myself, but your explanation and tone make me feel as though I am
Please keep it going!
your videos are the best i listen to them before and after shifts, they help with the stress
Mutually assured destruction(MAD) is an insane concept, But it works, in fact in some situations it is the only thing that works.
Cix Liu should get a Nobel Prize for such brilliant concepts
Meah. Mass Effect did it first. Well Dune did it first. The people coming back to the Empire after the scattering. Something was out there
Seriously awesome video! Absolutely love this series so thanks for making it!
Living for three body problem content now. Please keep it coming!
my favorite thing about TBP is that i finished it a good while ago, and i don’t consciously think about it, but every once in a while a deeper realization about the meaning of the dark forest state will explode into my head. kinda like how luo ji wasn’t a Real Wallfacer until his wife was taken, and then suddenly all of this background information just clicked into place. in a way i think that his wallfacer experience echoes the experience of the reader in the way that they absorb the information.
I just have finished all 3 books of Three Body Problem. Takes some endurance, gosh what a saga! Never read anything like it, so many cool concepts. I wonder how much real science is there. It was kinda disappointing that all galaxy civilizations end up ruining the galaxy. The most advanced civilizations act just like greedy humans, proving to be no better than all lesser civilizations which them routinely "cleanse" from existence and causing "dark forest" situation. Especially knowing that some of them survived the universe restart for multiple times. It's just like hunger-games, just on galactic scale .
Greed and ruthlessness were never uniquely human qualities.
@@lukesanchez9961 Whom else though? Dolphins, chimps? Or whom are you implying as a subject of greed and ruthlessness? Can't imagine a ruthless dolphin though xD
@@D.2023 Dolphins are highly ruthless believe it or not.
I was hoping for some bad ass showdown between Trisolaris and some other predator.
But to be fair, Death's End was very interesting.
@@TheJoshtheboss I'd personnally rather see a peaceful solution. The Trislarins have near perfect communication. Peace could be attained. Both sides don't want to die but both sides know of eachother's existance. A solution could be found in this rare case.
A lot of stories are more interesting summary than to actually read. This is one of them. I'm so grateful for your channel, Quinn!
Very well-researched and well-formatted synopsis. Thank you!
Once I read in a book that having trust is like being lost at sea: there is no end to it. Even if all member of the crew work together, a single person can ruin what all worked together to achieve, he can throw the ship's oars to the sea when everybody is sleeping or penetrate the rue of the ship. That is why Dark Forest is such as scary notion.
Fantastic video, This series has pushed you to another level. One future idea I’d love to see you tackle is the series’ dramatization and exploration of the concept of morality - what is good? What is evil? Does time make such considerations pointless? Or more important than anything? I don’t think it offers an ultimate answer, but I do think it’s one of Liu’s major preoccupations. Peace.
Honk
I loved the books and reliving them through your thoughtful retelling/ analysis is sublime.
love your videos, sometimes i have a hard time putting all of the information together, like i’ll get certain parts but not others and your videos help me see the picture as a whole. thank you
Loved this series of books thanks to you for recommending them.
I watched the other five videos on this book series a few days ago and am already a third through the first one. Thank you so much for an excellent recap! And I am so excited to see another video. I’ve loved your stuff since the Lovecraft of ASOIAF video. Keep going strong, Quinn!
Im still reading through it, im at the part where they're explaining this virtual reality game with the suit that simulates the effects of the game. Its kinda confusing so far but I'm definitely enjoying it
Man your videos made me compulsively buy the whole trilogy! You are a remarkable storyteller! 👏🏽
Great work Quinn, you have a great reading voice and I really enjoy your detailed and clear narration and articulation of these concepts.
The explanation about the Dark Forest, man that is terrifying as hell
Cixin Liu's Trilogy The Remembrance of Earth's Past is a fascinating sci-fi story of enormous depth and scope. I highly recommend it.
Please tell us more about the era's of mankind. Im specifically looking forward to learning about the galaxy era. Always a great time just sitting late at night and listening to your wonderful voice explain these books.
BRO THE WAY LUO WENT OFF ON THEM WAS AMAZING!!!!!! i dont read but damn this story is so good especially listening to you while im 🌳🌳 is the cherry on top. Gets me thinking so much that i have to constantly rewind because my train of thought just keeps going wild with theories and questions.
makes star trek seems like children stories
Both are good stories that make interesting points. It's silly to dismiss one because the other is more cynical. Playing the game of a dark forest predator seems to guarantee your civilization's later destruction, even within the series.
Minus some Deep Space Nine
In other words is like the prisoner's dilemma, the only way to keep the survival of two hypothetical advance civilizations is by not shooting the other in the first place.
Sounds like West v Russia relations since the Cold War
There is almost 0 reason for an alien civilisation to destroy another. The only reasonable one is if one civilization is a predator. An advanced enough one has the means to manipulate stars and galaxies so they have no need for resources,they only need knowledge,and a live civilization gives them more knowledge than a dead one.
I’m really enjoying your analyses of various elements of these stories. Luo Ji becoming the sword holder was my favourite character development of the series.
Your videos on this series are what made me read the books. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Now let's see what else you make me want to read.
Hi Quinn. Long time listener, ever since the GOT days. Love all the new content, and the focus on science fiction, cosmic horror, and general isaac-arthury bent your content has taken.
I was wondering if you've ever read Blindsight, by Peter Watts, and if you'd be interested in doing a video on it.
It's a First Contact novel about hyper intelligent aliens who never developed self awareness. They just solve problems and invent technology by reflex and instinct. It's also about AI, transhumanism, the nature and function of consciousness, and neuro-divergence in humans.
It hits a lot of the same dystopian, and fatalistic themes as three body problem, while being slightly more american-action-movie-esq. Overall very enjoyable, and I think it'd be up your alley.
I’m interested in reading this series now. I’ve lately contemplated the dark forest theory and different takes on cosmic horror. It seems like the most apoetic solution to the Fermi paradox, but feels increasingly true the more I realize how inextricably linked intelligence is to the rough environment it grew out of. I love how you isolate the ideas in science fiction and base a whole channel on it.
Ultimately, the legitimacy of the dark forest theory relies on an assumed technological paradigm. In reality we have absolutely no idea just how capable a civilizations technology can become. It's very possible that technology can reach a level where the key points of the dark forest theory are rendered moot.
@@xenn4985 Like if it's impossible to move anything FTL, no matter how advanced your technology is.
LMAO. Your comment just like the rest here, is completely ignorant. Maybe you should read on what Neoteny did to us. Intelligence flourishes when there's less stress, you genius. The books are pure scientific hogwash when it comes to understanding where intelligence arises. It arises from complex sociality and cooperation. All the mammals that recognize themselves in a mirror have a few things in common. Chief among them is having few or no predators and having complex social behaviors like conflict resolution.
Godamit the next video can't come fast enough!!! I love what you did with the dune series and have been eagerly anticipating something like this done for the three body problem series
Great vid as always Quinn! The Dark forest was maybe the best Sci-Fi novel I have ever read. Love the three body content and would love more / a video on Death's End as well!
I'm halfway through the third book now, was very enjoyable to hear you revisit this section of the series. I wish you were the one who narrated the book on Audible. BTW I never knew about this series until I saw your videos, it has been a wildly intents ride and I had to take a few breaks as it was starting to mess with my head a bit. It's way darker than I usually like but I'm loving it.
Never thought I'd find you here. Great channel btw
@@wendohgermaine6448 oh yes sir! I've since finished the trilogy and the 4th book Redemption of Time and oh my goodness what an experience. I just jumped over to the much lighter hearted but still very good Shards of Earth (final architecture series) and I'm just waiting for the third book to come out and I have a few pages left in the last book of the Foundation series. Audio is fun and all but I enjoy sci fi much more :) cool bumping into you in Quinns page!
I read the first book in the series and stopped. Your video on the trilogy inspired me to give it another try. Holy smokes! By books 2 and 3 the story really takes off. I am currently up to the Bunker Era part of the story.
Also, Dark Forest Theory is terrifying. So much for getting any sleep now :-P
I’m so glad I found your channel. Such an awesome source of horror, especially on a philosophical level.
Yes thank you so much for finally making some more three body problem videos no one makes them as good as you