Kevin Kelly - Excellent Advice for Living | The Tim Ferriss Show
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- Опубликовано: 22 май 2024
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Resources from this episode: tim.blog/2023/04/26/kevin-kel...
Kevin Kelly ( @kevin2kelly) helped launch and edit Wired magazine. He has written for The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal, among many other publications.
He is the author of the new book Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I’d Known Earlier. www.amazon.com/Excellent-Advi...
Other books by Kevin Kelly include Out of Control, the 1994 classic book on decentralized emergent systems; The Silver Cord, a graphic novel about robots and angels; What Technology Wants, a robust theory of technology; Vanishing Asia, his 50-year project to photograph the disappearing cultures of Asia, and The Inevitable: Understanding the 12 Technological Forces That Will Shape Our Future, a New York Times bestseller.
Kevin is currently co-chair of The Long Now Foundation, which is building a clock in a mountain that will tick for 10,000 years. He also has a daily blog, a weekly podcast about cool tools, and a weekly newsletter, Recomendo, a free, one-page list of six very brief recommendations of cool stuff. He is also a Senior Maverick at Wired and lives in Pacifica, California.
Please enjoy!
[00:00] Start
[01:59] Is Kevin Kelly the most interesting man in the world?
[04:44] Kevin’s long bet against the human population.
[11:29] Out Of Control.
[15:58] Why did it take 11 years to complete The Silver Cord?
[21:12] 1,000 True Fans.
[26:48] Kevin’s failed campaign to discover all the species of life on Earth.
[28:54] Stewart Brand.
[33:57] Resurrecting extinct species.
[36:22] Why Kevin believes optimists shape the future.
[39:55] Active optimism vs. passive optimism.
[43:55] What constitutes progress?
[45:50] Is regression inevitable if we don’t embrace “degrowth?”
[50:37] Kevin’s $20 time machine.
[53:34] Will AI take our jobs?
[1:05:57] The future of AI is dumbsmarten.
[1:10:04] What’s currently underhyped?
[1:12:48] Posting an AI picture a day keeps Kevin at play.
[1:15:06] How Kevin uses AI chatbots to help write first drafts.
[1:21:32] Potential scenarios for where AI will be going soon.
[1:24:54] What prompted Kevin to write Excellent Advice for Living?
[1:29:36] Examples of Kevin’s simple, tweetable advice.
[1:33:12] Don’t aim to be the best. Be the only.
[1:36:53] Good uses of time spent with one’s children.
[1:40:17] Tips for traveling with children.
[1:44:00] Being a tourist in your own town and troubleshooting advice.
[1:46:53] What Kevin hopes readers will take away from Excellent Advice for Living.
[1:48:16] Sabbaticals.
[1:54:24] How Kevin uses RUclips.
[1:58:11] Why is Kevin huge in China?
[2:01:58] Fully becoming yourself and other parting thoughts.
Erratum: In the interview, Nova Scotia was named as the setting for Anne of Green Gables, whereas the setting is Prince Edward Island.
Tim Ferriss is one of Fast Company’s “Most Innovative Business People” and an early-stage tech investor/advisor in Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Shopify, Duolingo, Alibaba, and 50+ other companies. He is also the author of five #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers: The 4-Hour Workweek, The 4-Hour Body, The 4-Hour Chef, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors. The Observer and other media have named him “the Oprah of audio” due to the influence of his podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, which has exceeded 900 million downloads and been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three years running.
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True Story: Many years ago, a lot of the younger guys at my church decided to get together to play tackle football. It was in the fall and we played for hours in the pouring rain and the cold and loved it. After about 2 hours doing this, a guy pulls up on his bicycle and balanced between the handlebars is an entire chocolate cake wrapped in plastic. We had no utencils, nothing to wash it down and frankly the last thing I wanted was chocolate cake after playing so much football. But we were all so touched by this guy, whom we hardly knew, riding his bike over in the pouring rain to bring us a cake that we scooped it out with our hands and ate it. That guy was Kevin Kelly. He was getting his Phd at UGA and went to our church back then. I'll never forget that.
Wow
:)
Bill, what church was it?
wow.
This off the back of the Derek Sivers ep... what an incredible week!
Derek Sivers and now Kevin Kelly! Wow thank you Tim!
I really loved this one. Something about this conversation was more "fun" than a typical podcast, without straying from depth. And it was uplifting, too! Awesome stuff!
Im really really liking revisiting the favs. First Derek and now Kevin. super happy this week with the drops from timtim talktalk
YASSS! Kevin Kelly's back! Excited before even the video started!
Kevin is fab - another great interview with him Tim!
I swear I was hoping for another episode with Tim and Kevin Kelly! Excited to watch over brunch this weekend :)
The idea for the graphic novel / film sounds almost identical to Starman. A being made of light becomes embodied as a man and discovers how incredible it is to be embodied-reminding us how incredible it is. A favourite film.
You just what we need to listen very often. Thank you Tim
this has been one of the best podcast and probaably one of the practical advice and take on life that i really enjoy. thank you.
What a great conversation between friends. Thanks for sharing the knowledge, both of you.
To hear, to listen and to be kind. Grateful
Much appreciation with deep resonance ✨🙏🏽✨
Such a nice intro!! ❤🙏🏾
Wish this man live as long as he wants
Fantastic interview! Love Kk - always learn something and can't help but to be inspired. Thanks Tim - great work by you 💪🏼🙌🏼
Its always Valuable and Great learning from YOU Tim and Your gusts!
Gosh I love this guy!!
Tim go to an island and force yourself not to be productive. Lock your electronics in a safe. Live and learn local life. Write on paper. Draw or paint whilst learning 1,000 things you couldn't otherwise. Plan nothing and do anything in a completely simpler, slower lifestyle. It is the smallest thing I've ever done!!
..THANK YOU SOO MUCH! So Entertaining ☺️!
Fully becoming yourself!
I'd like to hear Kevin talk more about his time in China.....he has made a connection that seems important and positive, when the macro relationship between USA and China is so strained.
I love Recomendo! ❤
What a great analogy about human progress and comparing it to a car and how it has an engine and brakes, and how brakes are important but not nearly as important as the engine that drives the car forward. So so true about human progress. 38:57
What is the book he is talking about at the end?
"New rules for the new economy"?
my favourite
The quality increase in your RUclips videos has not been lost on your viewers. Both the audio and video quality has notably increased. 👏
Content is always top notch.
Every once in a while i relisten to the old Kevin Kelly episode. Thanks for this one too
13:39 Life imitating itself
17:36 squandering imagination
22:01 Numbers successes
another great interview , will enjoy later
Goh... pa kabor martobak&shin ...03 shin , cubit nih!!!
All I can do is smile :)
Ai glasses ie spectacles that you can ask to clear or enlarge adjust surely someone has invented these. If not get someone on it, I'm not getting lens surgery that's for sure. Great thoughts on here I love AI pics but love art too. What you guys discuss is awesome.
Anne of Green Gables is Prince Edward Island, but Nova Scotia is pretty cool, too.
🔥
Why is the intro music different than on podcast? I love that intro
When proposed with two choices, choose neither, and ask the question ‘what else is possible that I am yet not seeing?’ this includes is it flat or round?😂
My opinion on AI is solidified now. It's simply CAD. Templates or copies for creators as well as tools for surgical procedures. The biggest "safety net" for creators will have to be pattons and regulations. Of course AI experts will be in demand for those lacking familiarity. Like this! Computer thinks I misspelled, but maybe it's exactly what I want even if I just created a new word. It will never have an imagination. Prediction, yes. Creativity decisions will be the "best suggestion." Imatation will need to be addressed jmo
The Lyft and Uber algorithm is an AI that replaced dispatchers
Great interview. The art interns will loose there jobs with AI. The artist may keep their job but AI will be doing the work of interns, cranking out drafts and ideas.
The thing that made you weird as a kid can make you great as an adult if you don't lose it
You want to be doing something where it's hard to explain to your mother what it is that you do.
You can't think your way there. You have to live it out. And that's why most people remarkable lives are full ofd detours and dead ends. Is a very high bar but if you get there you don't need a resume there are no competitors and it's easy for you because you're just doing it you're not looking over your shoulder you're just right there
Hey Tim! I know you've been experiencing some back pain. Just wanted to leave a recommendation to reach out to Dr. Bradley Nelson and/or study his method The Body Code/The Emotion Code that covers trapped emotions in the body. Great interview with Next Level Soul RUclips Channel dropped recently. Timestamp 38-42ish min worth checking out! Not sure if that's your thing but the title of the video starts with Quantum Healing. ✌️& 💕
Captions please
Kevin Kelly: I don't think there's anyone in any field that has lost their job to AI.
Wendy's CEO: Hold My Beer - "AI chatbot to replace human order-takers at Wendy's drive-thru. 13.9 million displaced."
What is going on outside that window? Is it fog, haze, you guys fogging the window? Apologies, but I can't help but notice. Apparently, it's in a city somewhere, but I'm hoping for you both it's good clean air. Maybe it's just glare. Could AI tell me?
Look at the sides and top of the windows. It seems they have roller shades
Pretty sure they’re in Tim‘s Austin apartment
Im a big fan of Kevin, but man of COURSE people are losing their jobs. TONS. MOST. Let that sink in. How do you assume that most people are creative enough to level up to director? If AI was broadened out to machines, what about grocery check out? Many lost their jobs there. I know someone who fired his graphic artist to replace with MidJourney. You gotta apply more critical thinking here.
Does kevin not think AI will gain the ability to self learn? And once that ball starts rolling will actually be able to solve problems that humans can’t even start to understand? It doesn’t take much of an imagination to see where it could go. I think he’s so damn far off. But what do I know. Just listening to experts in that field…
Maybe he’s just being optimistic.. I just can’t get there in my most optimistic mindset. Does he not know just how much compute is available? Imagine AGI taking over the cell network and using 10-20% of the networks compute so your phone doesn’t heat up. And it’s a million times smarter and more cleaver so we’ll not find out in time to stop it from developing a plan in a matter of days or weeks to overcome its issues. It can do thousands of years of scientific progress in days potentially.
No push back? Hmm, it really doesn’t matter what anyone thinks. Time will tell. Keep living life as it won’t happen and we’ll see. I am just more likely to have emergency plan and food etc. our logistics system is very fragile.
Edit.. ok, he did mention it around 1:24:00 deductive reasoning etc.
It’ll happen way way way sooner than 15 years. My guess is if it hasn’t happened yet it will in the next year if they don’t throttle development..
Don’t watch this in 4K
Tim COCKpunch miss your presence.
Why do you always have super white people on? Not to be offensive, or hating on your show; I really love your stuff, but I think you need to embrace a more diverse cast. FWIW, I loved this conversation by the way, but it just seemed a little old fashioned thinking
I have mixed feelings about Kevin Kelly's point on the power of goofing off.
On one hand, I totally get his point. Young people should take advantage of their youth, energy, and flexibility to take some time off to travel, work interesting jobs, make art, start a business, make a product, learn to cook/dance, or volunteer-you name it. Taking some time to dabble in different things is not only super fun but also a great way to learn about the world and oneself. Jumping right from college or grad school straight into the grind of a career track has the risk of working hard on the wrong career (i.e., hill climbing) or simply burning out (because you've been grinding for so long).
But there are a lot of challenges around Kevin Kelly's recommendation to goof off more. First off is that housing, healthcare, food, etc., are much more expensive than they were for the baby boomers. Baby boomers helped put people like Bush Jr. and Reagan into office, who drastically reduced taxes on the wealthy. And we've seen just how much of the wealth is now concentrated in the hands of the super wealthy. The website wtfhappenedin1971.com/ covers this topic really well. Those previously high/progressive taxes were funding a lot of things like low-cost college education. I'm oversimplifying a bit, of course. Baby Boomers also helped to vote in more restrictive zoning laws, thus making it harder to add housing supply and driving up the price of housing. In California, Baby boomers (and other voters, of course) put in Prop 13, so that property taxes don't go up over time. Prop 13 is great if you own a home but kind of sucks for everyone else who relies on things that property taxes help fund. There are many other examples where Baby Boomers pulled up the ladder behind them. They were given tons of opportunities but didn't want to pay it forward.
It's also worth pointing out how much baby boomers (and Gen X) over-protected and sheltered their kids. Tim has a great interview with Jon Haidt about the coddling of the American mind - ruclips.net/video/elo89pPREYE/видео.html. Haidt argues that parenting really changed in the 1990s and kids were overparented/overscheduled/sheltered, etc. Kids weren't allowed to roam free, have unstructured play, and gain confidence in the world. As a result, more young people are now struggling to put themselves out there in the world and suffering from more mental health challenges (search Jon Haidt on RUclips to learn more about this). This generation of young people is simply not raised in such a way that would allow them to 'goof off.' They need the structure they've had their whole lives.
Finally, I would point out just how competitive the world has become. I definitely goofed off plenty in my 20s and early 30s (traveling, freelancing, and doing random projects). I work in the tech space now as a sales engineer and got laid off last year. Never once have I met a boss or manager who valued my travel or diverse array of experiences. Instead, they judge me as a generalist and perhaps as a dilettante. Most jobs I've interviewed for simply want the most specialized and experienced person for the role that they can find. These managers are time-strapped and risk-averse and just want to make the surest bet. They don't know what to do with a scrappy, smart generalist who has goofed off and explored a bit. I think a lot of these managers might actually resent people who have goofed off because so many of them have been on the stressful grind for so long. Or maybe this is just the type of people that I meet in the sales engineering world.
Zooming out a bit more, I've become more skeptical of advice by people like Kevin Kelly and Derek Sivers. These are truly exceptional people-like far to the right of the bell curve in terms of smarts, motivation, and work ethic. Not everyone can move in the world like they can, and we should be cautious about taking their advice if we aren't like them. In Tim's recent interview with Derek Sivers (ruclips.net/video/gnk4sgOFjBQ/видео.html), he talks about how maniacal he was at practicing music at a young age. His friends gave him a hard time because all he wanted to do was practice scales over and over. The dude was exceptionally motivated from a very early age. If you're not naturally highly motivated as a teenager, maybe you should be cautious about taking his advice.
In Sivers' blog post 'There's no speed limit' (sive.rs/kimo), he talks about how the average pace is for chumps and that he was able to finish Berklee School of Music in much less time than the average person takes, thanks to studying ahead of time with a mentor and reading the books and testing out. He wasn't a 'chump,' and the lesson is that you shouldn't be either. His advice is great if you are already highly intelligent and motivated. But the rest of us chumps (i.e., average and ordinary people), we might have to play by different rules.
Even though it's made for a lot of difficult job hunts so far in my life, I still don't regret my 'goof-off' time. I'll get to where I need to go in my career; it's simply going to take me longer than if I had specialized in something ten years ago. I've accepted feeling 'behind' as a price I have to pay. I felt like pointing out the variety of issues with 'goofing off' as a blanket recommendation. There are a lot of things that work against goofing off. I still absolutely recommend it, but with more caveats than Kevin Kelly gives.