Hi Viking, I live in Europe and I can say by experience that the prices the Chinese brands are applying to their cars in Europe are too expensive for people to consider a Chinese brand. For not much more money (+3.000 € / 5.0000 € } we prefer to turn towards something that is more known to us and looks more reliable.
The real problem is the lack of customer service, like for example the number of people who bought an MG4 and are facing problems/bugs is very high (but that's not abnormal for a new car), but when facing customer service here in France, or the very few clueless dealership, it gets ridiculous and the feedbacks from people are pretty horrific at the moment, hopefully they will learn from their mistakes and do a better job in the future...
I compared a Nio EL7 with a Mercedes-Benz EQE SUV and pricewise they are about the same, which is simply not accepted in Europe. Why should you risk buying Chinese when you can have a MB for about the same price and equipment? I compared the MB EQE SUV 350 4MATIC with the Nio EL7 100 kWh battery.
@@manu.yt25 That's exactly the problem but the prices are to high in comparison to known brands. Combine that with unknown reliability and in most countries pretty tough biyearly technical inspections and you know why people won't by Chinese. The closest Chinese brand dealer, MG, is 130km away from my home. BYD would be around 400km. In addition many use unknown networks for service and Aiways uses one which has a very poor reputation.
@@eish3291 of course, but that’s not my point. Way back when the Audi A4 TDI came to market, it was very competitively priced and could gain a lot of market share due the good price vs quality offer, resulting in a substantial price increase 3 years later. Equally good cars like the Honda Accord came later at the same price levels as the increased Audi A4 price level and could never gain a big market share. It’s all about perception and credibility, values that have to grow over time and can only be bought from the public with offering more for less, like IMO the MG 4 is doing.
There are many reasons why they don't sell in Europe. To name a few: - Price. Either due to import taxes or whatever added costs, these aren't cheap. A BYD Han starts at over 72000 €. And that's the lesser spec. Sure, the Han is not an econobox, but I don't see cheap Chinese EVs in Europe. - Brand Recognition. For budget vehicles, it's not that relevant, but when it comes to higher priced vehicles, it matters. Not many Europeans would get a BYD Han over a Mercedes EQE or a NIO ET7 over a Porsche Taycan. - Distribution. They don't sell them in all of Europe, only in a few countries and they have very limited networks. I checked BYD in France (biggest EU country). There's one dealer in Paris. That's it. Tesla has 20 in France, 3 of them in Paris. I don't think it's worth mentioning how many VW, Nissan or Kia dealerships there are in France. - Reliability concerns. Chinese brands don't have a reputation for quality and reliability. This, tied in with the distribution issue creates a major problem. If I live in Toulouse and I got a BYD and something happens, what do I do? Do I tow it 700km to Paris? Even if I would expect it not to have any issues at all (which is not the case), what about regular servicing and maintenance? - Marketing. I haven't seen any Chinese car commercials so far. EV or other. People don't know about them.
Your right but one point you didn't mention is geopolitical perception. Loads of people in the comments section on every channel are anti -China so it's also something Chinese will need to overcome. I still think the Chinese will do well, it's just the start. By the way, Chery rebadged as DR motors in Italy and Spain sold 3,000 and 950 units in the former and later in march. So they selling good numbers every month. They are creeping in....
From what I hear from Norway, those Chinese EVs are not cheap, not competitive with Tesla. For BYD or Neo to sell in Norway, they have to be significantly cheaper than Tesla. They are not. Volvo, MG, can somewhat compete on their brand names. Bud new Chinese brands have to compete on price. They cannot at this point.
Yeah, Tesla offers a lot of value and far better engineering for your money. Also, talking to consumers, you can see there is a question of consumer familiarity/trust when it comes to forking out top dollar for a Chinese car.
Tesla is winning on price and tech. MG is cheap here in Norway but not the others. BYD has raised their prices too much. And Chinese software sucks. Buggy as hell.
When you have a good brand and words get out, it's unstoppable. Right now the chinese fllooding euro with chinese car remind me the time when the chinese mobile company flooded euro. But at the end of the day Apple still rein supreme and TEsla wil be the same.
Where I live, BYD is discounted about $20,000 against the Model Y and about $10,000 against the M3. At these much lower prices BYD offers good value in its market segment. That said with Tesla you pay more and get more, particularly the Supercharger network, faster charging and better software. That said BYD offers some surprises where it out competes the Tesla's. I am happy to comment on the comparison because our family owns both an Atto3 and an M3 so are well acquainted with both.
Try the Et5 ... i own one in China and its under my point of view better than Tesla 3. Compared with my oil Audi (same price range) back home its just another level.
I think it's a brand recognition issue. It was smart of Geely to buy the Volvo because people know that brand very well. SAIC's MG is doing well in the UK because MG is an old well known brand there. It might not do so well in the rest of Europe because I don't think MG was ever that well known outside the UK. Unless they resurrect a famous old brand like SAAB, new Chinese players are almost completely unknown and need to do a lot of advertising and catch people's attention. Maybe they should aim for fleet sales, offer discounts to police forces etc.
There’s nothing in the brand. I know quite a few Brits who hate MG and SAIC for what they did with Longbridge. Many Brits prefer the local built Nissan’s, BMWs, and Toyota’s.
@@dogwithkatana485 not really... if you compare the price of their same model in China and in Europe, that’s almost 2 times higher or even more... I know there are import taxes and localization costs, but I really don’t think it’s gonna be as much as 100% of a whole car price.
It's actually very simple - the prices are too high. BYD Han in Germany is over 70K € (525K RMB) - Ioniq 6 is 61 000 €. Very similar cars. It is the same for the rest of the range as well. That accounts for 30% of the price, in china the ~10% car acquisition tax is currently exempted for NEV's, but still - imagine if the BYD Han was over 50K USD in china, the highest price model with discounts is less than 40K. I think all Chinese car makes entering the European market will have to have reasonable prices at the start - they're practically unknown, the brand tax that the German manufacturers collect doesn't make sense when the brand effectively doesn't exist :D It would be fine if they would sell at the same price as Tesla / Hyundai / VW, but an extra 20% for what? It's not like the cars are even somehow significantly better. Imagine if the Xiaomi's / Huawei's / Oppo's first phones would have cost 2000 € - would people have bought them? Probably not :D BTW In terms of why Tesla is selling so many cars. 1. Brand - Tesla is considered to be VERY COOL in Europe. 2. Pricing, especially now - a Tesla model 3 LR is even cheaper around 54K €. The car is less luxurious than a Han / Ioniq 6, but at the same time it's very light for an EV and well it's significantly cheaper. Model Y has something going for it too - although it's again much less luxurious than the competition, it is also cheaper and has good performance. Ioniq 6 Ultimate is 10K more than Tesla Model Y.
@@johnsmith-cw3wo It's not actually possible to have chinese pricing in EU. There is import duty - 10% and VAT, which is about 20% for EU countries. Add to that delivery - about 2K. Assuming those costs, the pricing of the top of the line Han should be about 50K - 60K, a far cry from the nearly 70K that is right now. Chinese car manufacturers won't enter US until the 25% tariff is lifted.
@@gpsfinancial6988Keep in mind - I am only talking about exemptions in China. The exemption was created in 2014 and has been extended currently to the end of 2023. In terms of prices - I have never seen cars be as cheap as they are in China.
The same thing happened to Toyota when they started selling cars in the United States back in the day they have to build confidence in their brand you're spending twenty thousand plus dollars
Here is UK BYD Atto 3 has been launched at $40,000+ - it’s just way too expensive when you can get a Model 3 for not much more and several other established makers have good EV’s at the same price. Given the economic situation isn’t good it’s going to be a real uphill struggle to establish a brand at that price.
Back in "the day", Toyota were selling new cars in the US for *< $2,000* ‼ _I remember my aunt bought a little datsun for which she took much chiding, but she was price sensitive._
Hi Viking, I live in the U.K. The Sales Prevention Officers are at it. An Example- Ora Cat a really great little car with three models, the low range, the one to go for with a good range and the Boy racer model with no advantage over the model with the good range. So they import only the low range model and call it the Funky Cat that is more expensive than all comparable models ( we were advised it would be £24k ) so no choice just the “Funky Cat” low range- and expensive-unbelievable so Sales are non existent.
People are reluctant to buy from unknown brands mostly because they are wondering about parts availability and service in the not too unlikely case that the brand will disappear. (It's a reason I would not consider a Rivian, let alone an Xpeng.)
Maybe. That's because >85% of the Non-Western world is reluctant to buy from & support Western companies. Why would we pay more for lesser-value Western products? I'm not interested in expensive to maintain EU cars (I come from Europe, but I have holistic ethical mindset).
Sorry the Chinese cars are not on the same level, than the European EVs. They are not. But they want the same money or more, then the local brands. Charging for BYD is 5 minutes at low kWh than ramps up to 70-90 and stays there till 90%. The Europeans do 140-200kw/h at the charger for the first 20 minutes. That means you can recharge and go much faster. The driving assistances are not on the same level for BYD. Definitely not. The cheap price in China is also for lower specs. Like bad brakes, if you want the good brakes like Brembo, they are not cheap anymore. No long term experience, no repair network, no secured spare parts. Buying a Chinese brand is a total gamble, like the Koreans 20 years ago.
Just bought a BYD Atto 3 in Thailand. I have owned over 70 cars in my, and I find this EV amazing. Much better than some of the other brands in Europe on your list. Great value and quality for the money.
@@akeshshi9137Heres the salty Indian. At least Chinese have car brands and tech brands. Indians don’t have a single car i have seen here in Australia but BYD i have started to see more and more. Keep talking bud why don’t you put your hate into something more useful.
The main reason is that brand recognition and trust takes a long time. It might be true now, but in a couple of years time, once people see enough of them, it will become part the list of familiar brands .
It takes time to know if they are cheap crap, or you can't get parts to repair them, or it's super expensive, or they are dangerous and have a lot of recalls.
@@macmcleod1188 many Europeans think that way but still buy cheap European crap, that in some cases have been crap for a long time. But most Europeans buy expensive and overpriced European brands. You just have to watch European RUclipsrs to se how excited they are over a 120-150.000€ car that’s no better then a Chinese or American car for 2/3 of the price. I’ve been driving expensive European brands like BMW and Porsche for many years until I switched to Tesla two years ago. Tesla aren’t any worse the they are but cheaper in every way. But we Europeans just love are overpriced luxury cars…
I live in the Netherlands. There are solar parks here that are NOT connected to the grid because there is still no room for the electricity. There are companies here that have their own generators because the grid cannot supply the electricity. Expanding the grid is a huge huge job and takes really a lot of time and money. Electric cars have many many disadvantages and are not as environmentally friendly as they say. Just think of unstoppable fire, declaring the total loss in the event of a very minor damage to the battery. Fixing the car for a lot of money, a $20,000 tesla battery (the time of the cheap repair is over), and so on. I see more in hydrogen, partly because inventions have been made recently that generate hydrogen with very high efficiency and new type engines ....very small with high torck and power
@@gustavgyll3291 I'm sorry... but chinese products are extremely suspect and often of illegally low quality. The parts *look* normal but fail early. Which is not a good idea for brake parts. Chinese businesses are going to need to deliver quality products and behave ethically for several years (maybe longer) before people trust them. They behaved like Volkswagon did. They have low credibility until they earn a better reputation. This is especially critical for items that cost over a couple thousand dollars.
PRICE, every person who really considers to buy EV's and isn't "rich" does his/hers do diligence, and then they see, well X car's base model from X brand cost in china $17K but here $34K on what planet would you pay DOUBLE the price? cos then its not a bargain anymore and for $34K you already have other options.. and for the highest trim (which is not even near Tesla in speed, battery, ect..) you have to pay $44K, which is insane, thus the person rather gets a Model3 or a some other western made car...
The main reason is the pricing! and the Tariffs applied in the European Market to Chinese products... For instance, the BYD Han in China costs 30K but in Europe costs 80K Instead of competing with a Model 3, it is priced as much as a Mercedes E Class.
Well, chinese tariff over europeans cars seems to somehow backfire. These tariff are pretty much those chineses apply to europeans built cars sold in China.
@@dieselpub2 Top pselling european car in China for years is VW, and built in China, almost all taxis there are VW since very early when the China market opened up after 1980
@@hongsienkwee537 i corrected my previous comment. But basically, tariff do no depend of the company country, but on where the good is made. Chinese would be able to sell cars in Europe with no fee, if they were built in Europe. Pretty much like Japanese manufacturers are doing for decades.
From Ireland here, and while MG EVs doing Ok - particularly with taxi drivers ... there is however an undercurrent of concern about dealing with China. We know we already have a lot of Chinese electronic stuff, phones etc.. and a good cross section of people are concerned about increasing trade from China - especially a big ticket item like a car. I gather there are some BYD and Nio cars here in the country - a few RUclips reviews ... but I've not seen any on the road yet - and I live quite near to the area in south Dublin where many of these new car companies seem to base themselves (Tesla has been there a while) . The Irish love affair is mostly with Korea - Hyundai Tucson best selling Irish market car and Ioniq 5 frequently topping the EV charts, along with VW. Pre-EV, our ICE-car love affair frequently saw Skoda topping the charts here. So, it's a political awareness thing with China - like some other commenters on here have said.
MG is definitely doing okay in the UK and building up popularity in Ireland. There are at least 4 or 5 dealers in Ireland. By contrast BYD has zero, although apparently they are planning to enter the market in 2023 somehow.
Do you find Ireland less worried about Climate Change? Their Electric is still very dirty and Cattle Farming seems "untouchable" even with its very negative pollution and dominance of land available for arable production??
I agree to your point of having concerns related to China. EVs are extremely dependent on the software and payment environment around them. So what happens if the communists decide to invade Taiwan? Will they switch off remotely all Chinese EVs? Or will they crash them into walls to kill the passengers? Nobody knows, what they are planning for. Plus all data from the vehicle flows into Chinese cloud servers and intelligence companies. See the somewhat similar concerns with TikTok. I am positively sure that I will never buy any kind of Chinese vehicle or anything else which can pose a life threat.
@@spxram4793 That means Chinese Tesla owners should also be worried if war breaks out then the American government will order Tesla to remotely crash all Tesla's in china and collect the data of their owners because let's face it if the American politician's hate all things Chinese then it means they hate all Asians because you cannot distinguish between Chinese ,Koreans or Japanese living in china.
I work in the solar industry, and for what I can tell, it is a lot with that people for example in Sweden do not trust Chinese companies. In my experience that is in solar but a lot of people here simply refuse or have Chinese as a last option because of political views from west and east.
In Sweden Nio tried to only lease cars, you couldn't buy them. The prices were also very high, maybe $1100 per month. Now they have changed and sells cars also but still for high prices.
So here in Sweden I was looking forward to getting possibly more affordable EVs from these chinese brands, but reality is that the BYD Atto 3 is priced the same as the Testla Model 3, that is the higher spec for the Atto and the baseline Model 3, but still, considering Teslas experience and dominance in the field, who would pay that for a completely unknown brand that has shown 0 long term reliability here. Even the cheaper Atto3 is just a negligible amount below the Model3, so I can easily see why people would just shrug and buy a Tesla. They would have to be at least 25% or more cheaper, at least for me to take that chance considering how long term of an investment it is to get a new EV, it is a huge cost. Sweden also no longer has the EV Incentive anymore, which is probably stopping many from jumping in. I have only seen 1 Atto 3 in the wilds here, but I see probably at least a dozen or so Teslas every single day during my 15 minute commute and in the parking garage I use.
BYD barely entered and Tesla reduced prices. The cavalry is dolphin and Seagull then seal. Obviously it takes time to establish a brand. It's similar to Japanese in the 70s except Chinese have to overcome geopolitical perception but they do have a headstart in EV technology
I for one, was really excited about the Atto3 coming to the UK. Pricing in Europe was expected to be around €32000 for the top version. When it arrived it was €35000, then when it finally came to the UK it was priced at £39000! I'm sorry but at that price, nobody in their right mind is going to buy one here, especially as BYD have virtually no brand awareness(I haven't yet seen any advertising) and the value of used ev's are in free-fall at the moment. About 4 months ago I looked at the value of my leased Kia e-Niro 4+; they were selling(at a year old) for their original price when they were new - £39000. Now they are at £30000 and still falling! A slightly lower spec 3 model is £25000. Nearly all new ev's are leased as company cars because of the tax incentives in the UK, hardly anyone is buying them privately as they are just too expensive. The way things are going, I can see the big 2035 switch off of ICE cars in Europe being a total non-event unless something drastic happens. I am looking at retiring soon and my beloved e-Niro will be going back to the leasing company. What will I replace it with? Well, I can't afford to buy an ev so it will be back to ICE for me and that saddens me greatly. 😢
The Atto 3 has received a very luke warm reception from the UK motoring press. Badly packaged, lack of dealers and support and too expensive to name a few areas that have been criticised.
@@kyliefan7 They start at £27k and go up to £32k. I would say though that the range is a lot less than they say and the interior upholstery quality is poor. Great drivers car though!
I think you are partially correct. Part of the problem in Europe and the UK is that the Chinese manufacturers are just not known by the general public to even exist. MG is the only one that is still known, and that is only because of it's heritage as an English sports car manufacturer in the dim and distant past. Otherwise, ask any average person on the street to name a single Chinese car manufacturer, and I'll bet they couldn't name a single one (with the possible exception of MG as I said). So whenever anyone is looking to buy a new car, they automatically look at the well-known "legacy" brands and don't even know that the Chinese manufacturers even exist. Combine that lack of knowledge-penetration with the fact that for most people, the phrase "made in China" equates to low quality and very poor reliability. Those "in the know" understand that in recent years (VERY recent years), the quality of Chinese cars has improved greatly. But for the average person, they only think Chinese made = poor quality & poor reliability. The Chinese need to do some *serious* PR to get their message out there that they do _now_ finally, at last, do actually build some good cars. And to add insult to injury, there is also the question of manufacturer longevity. Will this "unknown" brand still be around in 5, or 10 years when I start needing spare-parts or maintenance......? It's all perception.
When the EV educated folk buy in, owning an EV means the OS is half the importance of the car, they just go with a Tesla as the OS is tight, snappy and easy. Struggling with the OS is a huge issue for other makers. I guess Tesla knew that was of high importance from the get go. After many years of EV research, I’m yet to buy one, and will soon I think, and there’s really only one contender, and I’m kinda waiting for Highland to drop because an M3 refresh sounds great.
I own an EV... and frankly the daily driving portion of the equation is MUCH more important to me than the OS. In fact, that's why I didn't buy the obvious M3 of MY (experiencing phantom braking on a test drive didn't exactly endear Tesla to my wife either... appearently the shadow of a highway overpass was incredibly dangerous). To me, Tesla undoubtedly has the best UI, battery management and performance/price out there... plus the best charging network by a country mile. However, to me they ride poorly, are still put together poorly, don't have basic parking sensors(!) and even with double glacing they are noisier than their competition. All of these factors would annoy me day to day... the OS I'd just get used to. Again it's a matter of personal preference and this is just mine.
Tesla cars are not good drives. I bought a model U, had it for 2 weeks before selling it and buying an atto 3. Atto 3's build quality is much, much better. It's a real car unlike Tesla.
Another vote for the OS not being a big deal, coming from a person that had deal with a MY. Sure, the OS is probably the best in any EV, but I would've traded it away in a heartbeat for a couple of physical switches. It simply does not matter.
@@elmohead Amen. Tried it a couple of times and I have to admit that while I could, maybe, tolerate feeling like douche while alone, using that while having passengers is a no go. I I'd rather feel like the idiot who got swindled into using everything through an ipad to save money on few effin switches. Also: English is not my first language, but I do not have a thick accent or anything . My retired parents though, that could realistically be in the market for a car like this, just laughed at the touchscreen "solution" and then shook their heads when I told that someone brainfarted the idea of using voice control instead..
Thanks for this video. Prices for Chinese EVs are very high, totally unrelated to the price in China. Why pay a premium for a car from a brand that may not be there tomorrow?
I can remember as a kid in the early 80’s when the first one of my friends parents bought a Honda. Another friend said to me, “Wiley sold his Oldsmobile and bought a Honda…he must be crazy!” That same friend ended up driving a Honda when he went to college a few years later. Back then, there was a general consensus that Japanese cars were shabby little shit boxes, but that perception changed 180 degrees in a few years time. If the Chinese auto makers can survive long enough maybe they’ll see a similar change in perception amongst the Europeans.🤔🥴😊
But that has also to do with culture (and same for Korea). These are countries where people are obsessed with engineering, technology, higher education. China isn't exactly the same and hasn't the same image.
@@aesma2522 True. Japanese quality and improvement is something that was integrated into their culture for generations (although some western dummies claim it was their idea).
@@FOLIPE “yet” Like they have that integrated into their culture. Ha ha. They aren’t even cheap, like how they supposed to be. Europeans are wise in not buying stupid, expensive, communist government tracked, stolen technology Chinese shit cars.💩
There is a massive negative reputation hurdle of Chinese product quality to get over. I myself always struggle to get over this hurdle. I have been bitten to many times with inferior products .
I think like investor & do the opposite. The future is in Asia/BRICS/China. When BYD Seagull arrives in Australia it will be the safest EV buy (after my bicycle with electrified body push ;)
As the video said, most of these Chinese EV manufacturers are losing serious money. I would hesitate to buy products from companies that may or may not exist in a few years.
Yes, including China built iPhone with inferior S/W that doesn't run as well on most others devices like Android or HarmonyOS. Most of the products I have are Asian & I don't trust Western overpriced variants.
@@DimitarBerberu well yeah if i want crap phone i buy chinese designed phone, that displays advertisements when i use it and cant turn the advertisements off, like xiaomi redmi lineup. if I want just as costly car as tesla, but only literally everything is jankier and sucks, I buy chinese ev.
@@Redmanticore BYD (& few other Chinese prestige brands) is better value than the overpriced Tesla. For ethical reasons, I avoid buying from bullies. When you mentioned phones I never buy inferior iPhones & I'm IT pro (Galaxy S23 Ultra, just because of the S-pen & 8K 30f/s video, next >5y will be Chinese). China is now superior in tech (with many other affordable cheaper options for everyone).
Apart from brand recognition, and taxes, dealership and warranty are another thing that European buyers are concerned about, in the Netherlands Louwman is now a dealer for BYD
The German and many Euro country consumer mindset and pride will always make the Chinese EV entrance difficult- in mind will be the Covid episode, and who caused the mayhem, the resultant shut downs and Chinas support for Russia. An iced mountain to climb. I don’t think the majority of consumers want to be associated in any way with supporting Chinese products- they might be acutely aware and afraid of being scolded and laughed at.
EV adoption worldwide will be bloody competitive at the outset. It probably will create diversity in price and market segmentation. Bad for investors but great for consumers
yes and no, the only reason they fail is PRICE.... i mean in China they sell a certain car for converted to US $17K, and when the same trim level arrives in the UK it starts from £28K = $34.8K aka DOUBLE the price.... if it where let say $25K people would buy it like candy... and the higher trim of $22K is $44.8K for which you already get a western well known brands car, which have almos a century of legacy and name recognition, and "trust" and services built out.
MG has brand recognition; it may be Chinese owned but it is also a British brand that is 100 years old. Also British people have fond memories of the old MG sports cars from the 60ies and 70ies.
Sales will come eventuality. This is a marathon and not a sprint. Public needs to be convinced about quality, reliability and service, especially for lower cost cars, which takes time.
What aren't they sending more EVs to Australia, we have so little choice down here and what we do receive sells like wildfire. They are missing out on pretty much guaranteed sales in Australia. 😭
No vehicular emission standards in Australia mean EVs are prioritised to go to other countries that do which is all OECD countries except Russia. Fed Gov is expected to do it this year despite Toyota pressure not to…
In the UK MG is quite well known and their are so many RUclips videos on them expecially the MG 4. The only reviews I see on BYD and NIO cars are from Bjorn Nyland, no one else seems to be talking about them.
I think that’s because they aren’t on sale in the UK yet. The BYD Atto got a lot of coverage from UK RUclipsrs once it was confirmed as coming to the UK in RHD
Tesla is not a traditional German car company but they are made in Germany so maybe the fact that the others are made in China and thus jobs in China not Germany
Japan and China have been building airplanes for years, but the sales are meager. A major factor is that Boeing claims that if a Boeing Airplane needs a part ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, it will be delivered in about TWO hours or less. Even Tesla can't manage that! The Chinese have yet to start building a Supply Base to match this level of service globally, & I doubt they can afford it!
Hey Viking, I'm in Europe and it's true, EVs from China are not being marketed aggressively at all. Some dealerships have a side section where they've partnered with Ora or MG but it's an afterthought and a curiosity. You don't get a proper brochure just a piece of paper with some pricings and that's it. Regarding the MG4 although it got rave reviews for driving performance it's got too many software issues and MG are unresponsive to fix them. I was in the market for one but a quick look on the MG forums shows many problems and the dealers haven't been given the know how to fix them. On top of this in general Chinese naming can be weird and doesn't translate well, for example who wants to drive a "funky cat" ?😅 I as well thought Chinese EVs would have taken over by now but it's not happening just yet. Maybe they need to buy some defunct brands like Saab or Rover or something to be taken seriously.
I'm really keen on the BYD Seal, I live in the UK. I know they are now selling the ATTO 3 here, but try finding any info on them with regarding to buying one..... There's pretty much no info out there, it's as if they don't have a footprint in the UK at all. The only place an Atto 3 can be found is on the leasing sites.
@@pauldoree3967 Me2. If they don't want too much I will get one. But, it has to be cheaper then brands which are already here. That they have to understand. Why else should I buy it?
@@knabbagluon with you entirely. I currently have a Tesla Model 3 Performance, lease ending soon. The Seal will need to be cheaper for me to take the chance and move to BYD. If they market it at around the same price as the equivalent Tesla, I would probably not change.
European and other nations support their own national brand, European brands. A foreign brand especially from China have to be very price competitive and also have good review to even consider as in the competition
Good job Sam. Interesting News…..simple answer in my mind, Europeans just don’t want China to take over the world! So we stop buying their products so far as we can. Its a shame that the European car makers can’t yet match the pricing of the Chinese EVs. Its still a cost thing though for many of us Europeans who actually want to dump our polluting cars for an EV. Keep up the great channel. I just subscribed.
It is not all about the cost of the EV here in Eastern Europe. I made a fool of myself recently when I bet a crowd here that EV's are inevitable and better. I was forced to find a charging station in my area. Found one 30 minutes away which would charge my car in 4-6 hours. The nearest 20min fast charger was 120km away on the main superhighway and for $100K Teslas only. BTW, fast charging a battery shortens its life. Living in a multi tenant home we cannot just rip up the ground to add a high voltage charger to the garage. The final nail in the coffin is the power monopolies now have to import coal from Australia, not Russia, and so they raised their rates. Charging an EV is now just as expensive as gas.
Given that China is backing Putin's war with economic and possibly military aid (through third-party workarounds) while Europeans' own tax money goes to Ukraine for humanitarian and military aid, I'd imagine lots of European EV buyers are taking a hard pass on even considering Chinese brands at the moment. Plus, decades of trade imbalance with China doesn't help either.
I live in Europe and several elements may explain why Chinese EV don't sell that well: 1. There is a fiscal incentive for companies to buy/lease EV or hybrid cars. They will prefere European brands, and most are hybrid cars. 2. Tesla's charging network 3. Chinese cars are as expensive as, or even more than European EVs, no incentive to buy them. For instance BYD is as expensive as Tesla's equivalent model. 4. European brand recognition 6. European brands have a garage and maintenance infrastructure. Where do you go if you have a problem with your chinese car ? 7. Same for road assistance in case of trouble. 8. Insurance companies add a premium because of the lack of history : cost of repair, security, etc 9. Chinese cars didn't adapt their cars to benefit from local European fiscal incentive plans, Tesla did. 10. Europe and USA political nd economical tensions with China. China supporting Russia in the war with Ukraine, or at least not condemning' Russia's invasion.
excellent points. i would add European countries should build/ maintain their own stregnth and not allow another country to gut its industry/jobs. US made a big mistake in helping/trusting China and now we are in a fight for survival of democracy around the globe
I saw an interesting post yesterday about someone who has purchased a BYD in the UK but they couldn’t get it insured as insurance companies don’t hold any data on the cars. That will slow down sales until the insurance companies catch up
Hi Sam, thanks for your video. Contrary to you, I am not surprised by the lack of success of Chinese brands in Europe. I have an electric-only vehicle rental business in Portugal and I personally own 4 Chinese BEV cars manufactured by JHC (Hebei province I believe). Most arguments about buying Chinese cars in Europe are already in the comments, but here is my point of view as a recurrent buyer and an owner. 1) brand building takes time anyway and Chinese start with a handicap, as we europeans know them for their cheap gadgets and shitty products (buy anything on Aliexpress and you get what I mean); 2) they are not well known by the general public and there is a doubt on their durability and capacity to provide long-term assistance. We have the experience of big multinationals that come with big promises and run away two years later to focus back on their home market or whatever marketing BS they see fit. Are we sure the Chinese will provide spare parts 5 years on? 3) some people are weary of trading with Chinese companies and be caught in big geopolitical shenanigans; 4) price of available Chinese cars is too high: prices are on par with European models, so what is the point of buying Chinese? 5) most Chinese cars are not a good fit for our culture: we appreciate good-looking, well-finished, reliable cars that project style, class and good taste. Our main criticism to Tesla cars is the misalignment of parts like the hood, doors, dashboard or even rearview mirrors, which project bad taste and bad quality according to our standards... so imagine when we closely examine a Chinese car! Even the cars that were exposed in the Paris Auto Show last October were subpar! Cars like the Dacia Spring -which is a Chinese car directly imported and rebranded by the Renault Group- are rightly positioned as bare-bones very low-cost (and therefore low-expectations) vehicles. For me, the most problematic factor is that, put simply, many Chinese vehicles are badly built by European standards. Having my 4 JHCs running is a permanent infuriating hassle and I have multiple recurrent problems with rust (I live by the sea), battery defaults, loose parts on the dashboard, plastic parts that break simply by touching them, fragility of the suspensions... In light of my 3-year experience operating this business and owning personally Chinese cars in France and Portugal, in order to buy Chinese, I expect at the very least a 40% discount compared to an equivalent European car. Hope this helps you understand why I won't buy Nio, MG or BYD, as many europeans who have a choice.
@@TangtangTangvancach The subject of Sam's video is: why do Chinese car makers sell so few cars in Europe ? Your answer is that europeans think highly of their own brands. Of course! It's because our cars are made to our taste. I see that many people in the world outside Europe do not care about panels alignment (this is an example)... well, we do.
I was thinking about buying a Chinese car, but as the Chinese government has behaved absolutely abhorrent in the Russia-Ukraine war, I changed my mind.
From many comments below, the major issue for the China's EV is PRICING. They must set the price much lower then others to have a good start for their new brand, not the other way around. But l think the China's EV maker have analyzed the European market all out, maybe other factors like tariff that pull them back since the EV has not been manufactured in European land.
I run a car wash with a touchless automatic that washes the car just with high pressure water and soap. To give everyone an idea: you can hold your hand in front of the water stream and it won't hurt you. One day a 3 year old "Great Wall" went into the machine and it "blew off" both (left and right) standard roof racks that supposed to hold luggage on the roof!! Thankfully this happened at our carwash and not out on the road with luggage attached. On closer inspection we also noticed the rubber around the windows completely disintegrated. What a POS after only 3 years. GWM = Great Wall Motors (Haval, Ora, etc.) No way would I buy one. That's for sure. Europeans, especially Germans, are very quality sensitive and conservative. Many wouldn't touch poor quality no matter how it shines.
NIO is way too expensive here in Norway. And they haven’t delivered all the battery swap stations they promised. The stations were supposed to be automated but so far they are staffed and that cost a lot of money.
Newsflash: The swap stations will always be staffed! I work in fully automated semiconductor facilities. They were supposed to be dark boxes, where you could turn out the lights and materials would go in, and finished products come out....LOL! Never gonna happen. It turns out that moving things will eventually break.....WHAT? Imagine if at 2:00am, a swapper decides to break after a battery has been removed, but before the next one is installed. Front page, headline news that you don't want.
I live in Finland and Chinese EV's are really rare, but EV's in general make up only 1.2% of the Finnish car market. People in Finland will drive a car for years, you still see so many cars from the 80's and 90's on the road. It's not a Finnish thing to have a Shiney new car the prices are far too high as are the prices of used vehicles. I did see a Chinese SUV that was just introduced to Finland, they wanted €60,000 for it. Nobody is paying €60,000 for a Chinese SUV.
Viking, this exactly relates to a comment I made on another of your videos. Westerners, both Americans and Europeans (and Canadians) simply don’t trust Chinese companies. Chinese sales successes have been primarily in selling either under a Western brand (Apple iPhones or GE appliances, for example), or selling components to Western companies (battery packs to Western car companies, for example). And a few unique cases such as Volvo and Lenovo, where consumers don’t really identify the company with China. And TikTok, but that’s free. This will almost certainly change as the quality of Chinese EVs becomes undeniable. And once a few consumers buy, more will buy, and then more, etc. But for now, Western consumers are even more wary than Western governments of Chinese companies. The reputational attacks on China have been very successful. And everyone remembers the memes about disastrous Chinese car crash tests. And melanin in milk, lead in toys, etc. It will take time and effort to overcome this. And this is not even taking into account all the ways Western governments hamper advanced Chinese product sales in strategic industries like the EV car industry. Germany will never allow BYD to displace its big 3 car companies (and neither will German car buyers) no matter how good BYD’s EVs get. It’s like the Japanese and rice or the French with cheese. Foreigners will simply not be allowed to put the hometown heroes out of business. This is why when you focus so much on how far behind Japanese and European and non-Tesla American EV companies are compared to BYD and other Chinese companies, that is not seeing the full picture. Yes, BYD is ahead of Toyota in EVs. But Toyota can sell its inferior EVs in Japan, Europe, and North America, while BYD can’t, even if its EVs are superior, as you point out in this video. So it’s not a black and white situation. It’s a race between Chinese EV acceptance and non-Chinese technology improvements. I’m guessing the Chinese will do well because their giant home market enables them to fund continuous improvements, and they will have better luck in neutral or friendly markets like Africa and much of Asia. But it’s going to be a tough business and political fight all over the world. (I don’t want to give the impression that Western governments, companies, and consumers are the only ones playing unfairly. The Chinese are masters of the art of using and abusing Western companies for their own ends. I saw this up close in some of my work).
You are obviously not from Europe. Huawei was huge in phones in Europe before the Americans employed all illegal means they could think of to kill Huawei. Xiaomi is also huge in Europe. All my electronics is Chinese and it is head and shoulders above the Korean, Japanese and American stuff quality-wise. I've had them all. The American were so bad it's not even worth talking about. Japanese were all buggy and build quality was not good. The Korean were better but still with bugs (from day one) and some strange decisions like inferior screen on their top model, etc.
@@svetkali You are sort of making my point. Huawei was becoming dominant in wireless telecom, a strategic industry. So its business was targeted and partially destroyed by the US, with help from Europe and the Five Eyes. Simply put, Chinese companies will not be allowed to be dominant in strategic industries in Western markets. Telecom infrastructure is a strategic industry and we saw what happened to Huawei. The auto industry is a strategic industry. The same thing would happen to BYD or any other overly successful Chinese car company. Xiaomi is currently doing well in Europe as you point out. How long do you think their market access would last if they were targeted by the US and the other main Western governments? And if Xiaomi starts doing too well and threatening strategic Western companies, how long do you think before Xiaomi gets accused of spying for the CCP and put on the Entities List? If Western consumers don’t block Chinese companies in strategic industries, Western governments will do it for them.
The MG 4 have had a lot of ads here in Norway. The sales numbers I have no idea about, but it seems hugely popular here, just that you can’t buy one and drive out the same fay, you have to wait 3-4months. Nio seems like a decent car, but it’s no way cheap- it’s the same price or pricier then VW so basically people who have decided to burn kr 600 000($60 000) on a car can decide between brands they never heard of or brands they know. However with the MG it’s different, “hmm, should I go for a brand I know or save $15 000 and get all the functions and 7 year guarantee, hmmmmmm????”
It would be very hard for me to own a modern electric car with all of its privacy and ownership issues regardless if it's made here or US but Chinese made? I know quality wise even Tesla that's been in the game the longest still has issues, a new player and Chinese is a no go. Don't get me wrong, I'm in love with the BYD blade battery but that's emotional talk for the specs, time will tell if the IRL deal is as good.
Dear Mr Viking, Could you not consider for one moment that everything in the car market sector is not always driven by short-term profits for the manufacturers, and savings for the consumers? How about if we in Europe were starting to clearly realise that the rise of Chinese industry frequently leads to the decline of our own? Therefore we might not want to buy Chinese cars on principle? Just a thought...
Buying a car is a long term proposition for most people. Can you rely on Chinese Govt long term to allow these companies to operate and provide parts for maintenance or accidents?
Europe is going to take some time to adopt Chinese cars. but given the Chinese reputation, getting Europe to buy mid to premium cars will not work. China should be selling smaller cheaper cars to Europe first. It's not the demand but is the product packaging and pricing.
Seling cheap to reinforce stereotypes of cheap junk? I think the management in Chinese car manufacturer are smarter than that. Why shall I eat dirt when I can deliver premium products with comepetetive price to make legacy maker consumer feel they paying primium just for the badge? That is exactly what Hongqi, Nio and XPeng ate doing. It takes time to get the word out, and legacy maker are definitely feeling the pressure. Lexus in North America is doing exactly that, asking premium price for a leather seat. But the onboard system is a generation behind its Toyota counterpart from the same era, and ride quality is not substantial better. It is just not economically justify to pick a lexus over a toyota in the same segment
@@林振华-t4v He did not say cheap but CHEAPER and I think he has a point. The Japanese and Korean successes in the car market did not start with their Lexuses and Genesis. They started with smaller and cheaper cars and with growing acceptance, so too did their higher marques grew. Fact of the matter is that of current, Chinese brands are not widely acceptable and it will take some time for that to happen. Nothing to do with quality otherwise everyone will be scrambling for a HongQi H9.
In the UK I brought a European brand for two reasons. Short supply chains for spares first. Most important I do not want to make a large purchase from a country that constantly makes aggressive threats against mine and bangs the war drums. No salesman who is rude and aggressive is going to get my money.
Short supply chain? Are you sure? Last time I check a F30 3er OEM tail light. It is made in Korea. There are bits here and there coming from other place. I know back in E46 3er era, some of them came from South Africa
Not specifically only about Chinese EVs, but I wonder how long until we see a genuine open source car operating system, and some sort of standardization, a bit like a Linux distro, so car owners can customize their car operating system if they choose.
I bought BYD Atto 3 last week (UK). I believe is an excellent car. Compared to others it has all the gadgets I need, excellent and comfortable driving. I was between Tesla 3 and Atto, but Atto offers more then Tesla in terms of internal space and boot. I do not think price is that high based on the fact that they give you all gadgets, heat pump, free colour, cables, liners. Warranty is more than on Tesla. I had some opinions from the Australian group, and they were all positive. I think Chinese are still researching the market. You said the are planning a factory in Thailand to produce for the UK market. If we do not see that many BYD’s around, it means the factory does not work yet.
Here in the Philippines, Chinese cars have a spare parts problem when cars break down or needs a replacement part, normally a 2 month wait. Maybe it's the same thing in Europe?
Europeans just prefer European cars , and if not available for the exact product they want, they will go for Korean or Japanese brands. In some countries Ford also has a presence (locally manufactured though).
Nio initially adopted the subscription service model in Germany and a few countries. But they're starting to accept purchase orders. That may explain the lower sale number initially.
I'd like to think there are a lot of people like me who aren't going to spend their money on products from China, who supports Russia's aggression in the Ukraine, and doesn't let their own people vote, and....well there are thousands of reasons, and people need to vote for the world they want with their wallets!
BINGO! Coal power plant permitting, construction starts and new project announcements accelerated dramatically in China in 2022, with new permits reaching the highest level since 2015. The coal power capacity starting construction in China was six times as large as that in all of the rest of the world combined. A congressional estimate in the U.S. placed the cost of Chinese intellectual property theft at 225-600 billion dollars yearly. According to a CNBC survey, 1 in 5 corporations say China has stolen intellectual property within the previous year, while 1 in 3 said it had happened some times during the previous century. XI supports PUTIN. Why would I support the Chinese regime with my wallet? I'll buy American Tesla and get a better car and support FREEDOM and the RULE OF LAW.
@@beautifulgirl219 laughable!! China is way more democratic than the US or Europe. In China you can’t get elected to move up the meritocratic system by just being a clueless alt-reality tv celebrity clown or a smooth talking charming personality like in both Europe and the US. As for freedoms that’s the biggest brainwashed nonsense ever. In Chinese society you have more freedoms than in any place in the US. Chinese cities as big as they are are the safest cities in the world. Schools are the safest in the world, police aren’t cruising around hunting down citizens to harass, beat up or shoot. Women and children are safe in public. As for this nonsense of elections or democracy. Every member of the Chinese government has to work their way up by being voted by the village, community, town, city, province they represent, and you have to start at the village level as Xi Jinping did. Americans are the most clueless ignorant brainwashed lemmings of all developed nations. As for Chinese products they are amongst the best in the world (ask musk who’s his biggest EV competitor and he’ll say BYD). Space system programs China surpasses the US. Military China has more advanced and superior weapons than the US. Cities and domestic societal infrastructure no nation on earth can compete with china. More Tesla’s are made in China than anywhere else. Again the level of bias ignorance of the average American is laughable
I guess people voted for the U.S's proxy war in Yemen which resulted in over 130k civilians starved to death? Or the indifference bombing of Iraqians? The real problem is that some of the western population actually believe their votes matter --- The fact is U.S and NATO are just as evil as the CCP and those who live the west benefit greatly from their "military operations" --- Your moral high ground never existed.
You need to have a place to bring it in for service and repairs. Mine would be 2 hours by car away for an MG, while the already settled brands have their dealers and service stations 15 minutes away, including Tesla. Teslas are too big until now, but... And most EVs are just too expensive for what people need - not compared to other over the top equipped cars costing 50.000 and more if you want to have heated front seats and rear parking beepers (ID3, because that comes in expensive packages combined with too much stuff), but compared to what the people need.
Hi Sam, I really wanted an atto 3 after looking at various videos over the last year or 2. But £38000 in the UK. Not at this price I went for an under 2 year old model 3, for £34000. I think the reason Chinese cars are not selling is the price, in my experience Chinese cars are only cheap in China.
Maybe its a strategic thing before attracting enough attention then cut the price dramatically. Tesla did it exactly the same between 22-23 in China which boosted the sale.
the problem is the mark up. i think they feel it is always easier to cut prices than to raise prices so they don't want to set the price low. when push comes to shovel, they will cut the prices. current pricing leaves a lot of room for that. for example, byd atto3's cost is below 20k usd but its price in europe is 38k euros. I am not as positive on nio and xpeng because their cars cost more to make. but byd, u can count on it to shatter the pricing of the industry.
Hi Electric Viking Just to expensive we get ripped off in the uk. The ora price about £32000. When they are that expensive people would rather pay a bit more and have a Tesla
With European buyers there were Chinese ICE cars before with a terrible crash rating and designs that did not appeal to a European taste. So now EV's from China are viewed with distrust. MG4 was designed in the UK but manufactured in China. Furthermore performance is getting great reviews by the European press and RUclipsrs. For me in Amsterdam I would not buy a BYD, etc. because I am worried about our relationship with China. If war does break out in Taiwan in the coming years, relations with China could be severed. How will you get service on a BYD car if that happens. Spare parts? Company finances in Europe? Tesla remains a better bet in that case. But thats just me.
Sam.. aside from the fact that you are an admirable man, a great father and a “good Egg”. What stands out (for me) is that you are “quick on the uptake “ What do an mean ? … Well you are fast to analyse trends and changes. You present your findings very quickly! Way ahead of the MSM and even faster than other you tube channels ! Well done. Best wishes. Love to your wife and youngsters.
I sure can't venture a guess, but I will say this. If I were the Chinese autocrat I would look at this and want the war in Ukraine and bad relations with the West to end.
I visited Zeekr to get update. If you purchase a car in English they don’t provide software updates for you. Also they don’t have Apple play. The real warranty is 6 years 150,000 kms. They are obviously still sorting things out as they intend on marketing in EU.
Hopefully NATO stop invading countries. Well, too late,............ the rest of the world ahead dumping the dollar and BRICS are uniting in the face of illegal sanctions and NATO aggression for decades.
I am confused too. In the UK I am seeing lots of Polestars and MGs, do people, as you suggest, think these are not Chinese? I wonder if familiarity will eventually bring down a lot of obstacles? I do think, as do most of the comments by the look of it, that price is key. MGs were selling well because they are cheap, with the MG4 they are cheap and good. If the other Chinese makers expect to compete directly with the established premium brands, they will surely fail.
It's a question of trust, it took the koreans decades to be trusted in europe, they had to sell their cars with double the warranty length of european ones for years for buyers to trust them. And China has a way worse reputation of making unreliable products, it's fine when it's small electronics, but you're trusting your life to a car... Then there is the chicken and egg problem of an established network: if you buy european you know it will be easy to get parts and get it repaired, it's more convenient. And finally don't underestimate the patriotism: French people still mostly buy Peugeot and Renault despite these brands being mostly shit, any japanese or korean car is way superior for the same price. So it will take a while before people start trusting the Chinese, when you see how they build apartment blocks it doesn't give you much confidence their cars are gonna be worth it.
The Chinese companies are entering a market v loyal to their European brands. The new Chines brands have no choice but to sell their cars as bargains. BYD is apparently trying to sell their Atto3 just under the price of the Model Y. Stupid. The price in Australia is closer to mark, but with Tesla lowering the price here in past couple of days BYD might have to drop price here to mid $40ks to keep selling. Its a really good car but price is important, especially when entering a new market with established brands. Additionally, after watching numerous British reviews of the Atto 3, its clear that the Chinese brands will have to fight the old imperialist mind set too. Happy to take an MG because that is Britishish, ok to take a Volvo/Polestar because that's sort of Swedish. Teslas are ok even if made in China. But pure Chinese brands are below them especially if they are asking the same money as Europeans
@bullpup1337 well maybe, or maybe they are the enemy because we are told they are a threat by mostly the American government. It all comes back to money and America don't want China to take there place in the No.1 spot. Maybe
Very interesting Sam !! Any theories on why? Two that come to my mind: 1. America is an ally, while China has sided with an enemy. President Xi’s bromance with Putin and increasingly aggressive foreign policy is threatening to wind back decades of economic growth in China. It’s a shame as the Chinese people deserve better. 2. There is an obvious quality gap between a BYD Atto 3 and a Tesla Model 3, when you drive both of them, as I have. Germans are discerning buyers and would notice this straight away. The $10K difference in price obviously isn’t enough to induce them to go with the inferior car. BTW Sam, why did you never make that review video of your Atto 3 ownership experience? Is it because you didn’t want to make enemies by pointing out its failings?
Europeans are brainwashed by Western Propaganda. Good Luck to more economic recession created by your boss USA. Actually byd is gaining popularity in Asia new Zealand and Australia. It will achieve in South Africa and South America through BRICS.
@@TangtangTangvancach really, citing that BYD is doing great in home country is like kissing your grandmother .. it should do better with all the CCP subsidy
I think the ASEAN market is the main focus for Chinese brand. The European market is just making a present their. Things might change once ASEAN market and South American market along middle east are better established. I would speculate Europe, Japan and Africa will pick up a bit later
@@林振华-t4v yeah southeaat asia have very huge potential market for electric car. Amd its have very few competitor too. In my country, indonesia there is only brand that serious on selling EV, it is hyundai and wuling. BYD is surprising not enter indonesia market yet but i bet that if the pricing was right it could be distrupting the whole indonesia car market just like wuling
It's just a matter of time when people accept Chinese brands as long as Chinese brand cars are good and reliable. People used to reject Japanese cars as well in the 70s. History repeats itself.
Thanks for all the great content, you're a machine! As far as this topic goes - I think there are many factors at play but mainly - really bad product image and expectations for Chinese cars in Europe. Chinese brands tried to get into the ICE market in the EU about a decade ago and miserably failed because their products were terrible on everything except maybe looks, which one could argue were mostly copied from EU brands. Take that image nightmare and combine that with non existing sales and service infrastructure, scaring an already skeptical of EVs mainstream populace (not talking about enthusiasts and early adopters here) and that's how you get anemic sales. But - one only need to look at Japanese brands and most recently Korean brands to see how this can work out. Takes time, super aggressive pricing and in the end just really solid products.
Don't underestimate brand loyalty and perception. In the UK, where I'm from, this is massive, my farther in law for example had a problem with a Ford in the 90's and now even 30 years later wouldn't buy a Ford. These new Chinese brands had neither.
I was wondering the same thing with Chairman Xi’s closeness to Putin, would be bad for marketing. That would keep me from looking at a known Chinese product.
The German KBA published the March and YTD registration numbers a few days ago: Nio sold 136 cars so far in 2023 (Jan - March). BYD sold 64 cars in 2023. Sixty-four cars! Great Wall Motors: 176 Only MG Roewe did a decent job with 3823 cars sold. Compare to Tesla who had only an ok quarter: 20655 cars
Not sure I’d spend £30k to £40k on a Chinese electric car and not be sure the company would be around in 5 years. Coupled with this millions of people don’t have a drive way upon which to charge their car and the charging network is crap. In addition we’ve just narrowly avoided a recession so people aren’t buying as many new cars. Exception is the MG brand which is well known in UK
8:30 because there is a little convertible British car called MG and Europeans might think it is the British MG. But if someone already buys something they should find out.
In Germany Chinese EV’s have a terrible reputation concerning fire safety. Stories are going around of the batteries spontaneously combusting, creating an unquenchable fire that burns down the house attached to the garage the car was housed in. These stories are told by fire safety officers and they are highly regarded in Germany.
Good video Sam, us in Canada will probably never see a Chinese made ev. Not sure it matters since the attitude about EV is very low in my province, Manitoba. I like the technology but not the price.
Yesterday I was arguing with a British friend about electric cars. I was complimenting BYD on their trolley technology and he said electric cars would never succeed. I asked him why and he said he was an environmentalist and that the waste batteries from the trolley cars would pollute the environment far more than burning gasoline. Hearing this, I smiled and said that you may not know that China has long been able to recycle waste batteries pollution-free and decompose them for recycling. After this he added that there would not be enough power plants to charge electric cars unless more coal-fired power plants were built, which would also pollute the environment. I laughed again and said you're right, it's true for some countries, but it's not the case in China. China has a mature infrastructure, we have thermal power plants, but we also have a lot of wind farms, solar farms, nuclear power plants. At the same time, there is a very innovative thing that you may not know about in the west. I live in a village, and many self-built houses in the village are equipped with solar power panels. The solar power received by these panels can be converted into household electricity. Then they are distributed to other areas with less electricity through the national grid. So electric cars are an irreversible trend, but the scope of your knowledge makes you think it is impossible........ I was arguing with an Anglo-Saxon yesterday about electric cars. I was complimenting BYD on their trolley technology and he said electric cars would never succeed. I asked him why and he said he was an environmentalist and that the waste batteries from the trolley cars would pollute the environment far more than burning gasoline. Hearing this, I smiled and said that you may not know that China has long been able to recycle waste batteries pollution-free and decompose them for recycling. After this he added that there would not be enough power plants to charge electric cars unless more coal-fired power plants were built, which would also pollute the environment. I laughed again and said you're right, it's true for some countries, but it's not the case in China. China has a mature infrastructure, we have thermal power plants, but we also have a lot of wind farms, solar farms, nuclear power plants. At the same time, there is a very innovative thing that you may not know about in the west. I live in a village, and many self-built houses in the village are equipped with solar power panels. The solar power received by these panels can be converted into household electricity. We also get money to distribute to other areas with less electricity through the national grid, so electric cars are an irreversible trend, it's just the scope of your knowledge makes you think it's impossible........ He said nothing after that
Coal power plant permitting, construction starts and new project announcements accelerated dramatically in China in 2022, with new permits reaching the highest level since 2015. The coal power capacity starting construction in China was six times as large as that in all of the rest of the world combined. A congressional estimate in the U.S. placed the cost of Chinese intellectual property theft at 225-600 billion dollars yearly. According to a CNBC survey, 1 in 5 corporations say China has stolen intellectual property within the previous year, while 1 in 3 said it had happened some times during the previous century. XI supports PUTIN. Why would I support the Chinese regime with my wallet? I'll buy American Tesla and get a better car and support FREEDOM and the RULE OF LAW.
The sentiment in Europe around support for Ukraine is very strong. Most Europeans have had their quality of life - energy costs in particular, impacted negatively by the invasion. Then they see President Xi's continuing support for Putin, and they think buying Chinese is supporting Putin...
How is it not? Tell me how logically if you buy a ccp car that it’s not related to them sending “hunting m16 knockoffs” and “ hunting body armor” for the Russians?
Hi Viking, I live in Europe and I can say by experience that the prices the Chinese brands are applying to their cars in Europe are too expensive for people to consider a Chinese brand.
For not much more money (+3.000 € / 5.0000 € } we prefer to turn towards something that is more known to us and looks more reliable.
The real problem is the lack of customer service, like for example the number of people who bought an MG4 and are facing problems/bugs is very high (but that's not abnormal for a new car), but when facing customer service here in France, or the very few clueless dealership, it gets ridiculous and the feedbacks from people are pretty horrific at the moment, hopefully they will learn from their mistakes and do a better job in the future...
I compared a Nio EL7 with a Mercedes-Benz EQE SUV and pricewise they are about the same, which is simply not accepted in Europe. Why should you risk buying Chinese when you can have a MB for about the same price and equipment? I compared the MB EQE SUV 350 4MATIC with the Nio EL7 100 kWh battery.
@@teledopo you pays your money and takes your chances. Even the MB EQS electric motors have had problems.
@@manu.yt25 That's exactly the problem but the prices are to high in comparison to known brands. Combine that with unknown reliability and in most countries pretty tough biyearly technical inspections and you know why people won't by Chinese. The closest Chinese brand dealer, MG, is 130km away from my home. BYD would be around 400km. In addition many use unknown networks for service and Aiways uses one which has a very poor reputation.
@@eish3291 of course, but that’s not my point. Way back when the Audi A4 TDI came to market, it was very competitively priced and could gain a lot of market share due the good price vs quality offer, resulting in a substantial price increase 3 years later. Equally good cars like the Honda Accord came later at the same price levels as the increased Audi A4 price level and could never gain a big market share. It’s all about perception and credibility, values that have to grow over time and can only be bought from the public with offering more for less, like IMO the MG 4 is doing.
There are many reasons why they don't sell in Europe. To name a few:
- Price. Either due to import taxes or whatever added costs, these aren't cheap. A BYD Han starts at over 72000 €. And that's the lesser spec. Sure, the Han is not an econobox, but I don't see cheap Chinese EVs in Europe.
- Brand Recognition. For budget vehicles, it's not that relevant, but when it comes to higher priced vehicles, it matters. Not many Europeans would get a BYD Han over a Mercedes EQE or a NIO ET7 over a Porsche Taycan.
- Distribution. They don't sell them in all of Europe, only in a few countries and they have very limited networks. I checked BYD in France (biggest EU country). There's one dealer in Paris. That's it. Tesla has 20 in France, 3 of them in Paris. I don't think it's worth mentioning how many VW, Nissan or Kia dealerships there are in France.
- Reliability concerns. Chinese brands don't have a reputation for quality and reliability. This, tied in with the distribution issue creates a major problem. If I live in Toulouse and I got a BYD and something happens, what do I do? Do I tow it 700km to Paris? Even if I would expect it not to have any issues at all (which is not the case), what about regular servicing and maintenance?
- Marketing. I haven't seen any Chinese car commercials so far. EV or other. People don't know about them.
Your right but one point you didn't mention is geopolitical perception. Loads of people in the comments section on every channel are anti -China so it's also something Chinese will need to overcome. I still think the Chinese will do well, it's just the start. By the way, Chery rebadged as DR motors in Italy and Spain sold 3,000 and 950 units in the former and later in march. So they selling good numbers every month. They are creeping in....
Adding to your list.
- Questionable resale value
- Financial health of these companies
@@protagonist9716 DR Automobili is currently selling 8 different models in France: 1 is electric and 7 are ICE
same situation in Switzerland
Chinese are soon not gonna trust apple,LV, Hermes, Prada, VW, BMW, Benz, Porsche, Cognac,Moet Chandon,scotch of which china is the biggest market.
From what I hear from Norway, those Chinese EVs are not cheap, not competitive with Tesla. For BYD or Neo to sell in Norway, they have to be significantly cheaper than Tesla. They are not. Volvo, MG, can somewhat compete on their brand names. Bud new Chinese brands have to compete on price. They cannot at this point.
Yeah, Tesla offers a lot of value and far better engineering for your money. Also, talking to consumers, you can see there is a question of consumer familiarity/trust when it comes to forking out top dollar for a Chinese car.
Tesla is winning on price and tech. MG is cheap here in Norway but not the others. BYD has raised their prices too much. And Chinese software sucks. Buggy as hell.
When you have a good brand and words get out, it's unstoppable. Right now the chinese fllooding euro with chinese car remind me the time when the chinese mobile company flooded euro. But at the end of the day Apple still rein supreme and TEsla wil be the same.
@@johnsmith-cw3wo there is still tax for imported car…they needs to produce it in Europe like Tesla to compete
Where I live, BYD is discounted about $20,000 against the Model Y and about $10,000 against the M3.
At these much lower prices BYD offers good value in its market segment. That said with Tesla you pay more and get more, particularly the Supercharger network, faster charging and better software.
That said BYD offers some surprises where it out competes the Tesla's.
I am happy to comment on the comparison because our family owns both an Atto3 and an M3 so are well acquainted with both.
It’s because in Germany Neal only has the ET7 and the EL7 available, there $70,000 cars. The et5 is more affordable and it just got there yesterday.
Correct. Et5 numbers are better now in Europe. It's the cavalry
Try the Et5 ... i own one in China and its under my point of view better than Tesla 3. Compared with my oil Audi (same price range) back home its just another level.
@@albertpicher832 And then your chinese EV EXPLODED right? LOL
I think it's a brand recognition issue. It was smart of Geely to buy the Volvo because people know that brand very well. SAIC's MG is doing well in the UK because MG is an old well known brand there. It might not do so well in the rest of Europe because I don't think MG was ever that well known outside the UK. Unless they resurrect a famous old brand like SAAB, new Chinese players are almost completely unknown and need to do a lot of advertising and catch people's attention. Maybe they should aim for fleet sales, offer discounts to police forces etc.
MG is well known in Ireland, and for older generations who actually remember MG in the rest of Europe
There’s nothing in the brand. I know quite a few Brits who hate MG and SAIC for what they did with Longbridge. Many Brits prefer the local built Nissan’s, BMWs, and Toyota’s.
In Germany, they also well known and are actually fair-priced.
@@dogwithkatana485 not really... if you compare the price of their same model in China and in Europe, that’s almost 2 times higher or even more... I know there are import taxes and localization costs, but I really don’t think it’s gonna be as much as 100% of a whole car price.
agree with you, Chinese cars are almost Trash
It's actually very simple - the prices are too high. BYD Han in Germany is over 70K € (525K RMB) - Ioniq 6 is 61 000 €. Very similar cars. It is the same for the rest of the range as well. That accounts for 30% of the price, in china the ~10% car acquisition tax is currently exempted for NEV's, but still - imagine if the BYD Han was over 50K USD in china, the highest price model with discounts is less than 40K. I think all Chinese car makes entering the European market will have to have reasonable prices at the start - they're practically unknown, the brand tax that the German manufacturers collect doesn't make sense when the brand effectively doesn't exist :D It would be fine if they would sell at the same price as Tesla / Hyundai / VW, but an extra 20% for what? It's not like the cars are even somehow significantly better. Imagine if the Xiaomi's / Huawei's / Oppo's first phones would have cost 2000 € - would people have bought them? Probably not :D BTW In terms of why Tesla is selling so many cars. 1. Brand - Tesla is considered to be VERY COOL in Europe. 2. Pricing, especially now - a Tesla model 3 LR is even cheaper around 54K €. The car is less luxurious than a Han / Ioniq 6, but at the same time it's very light for an EV and well it's significantly cheaper. Model Y has something going for it too - although it's again much less luxurious than the competition, it is also cheaper and has good performance. Ioniq 6 Ultimate is 10K more than Tesla Model Y.
I did not know that BEVs were exempt the tariff. That makes the pricing even stranger.
Chinese know this, they are milking till they can.
@@johnsmith-cw3wo It's not actually possible to have chinese pricing in EU. There is import duty - 10% and VAT, which is about 20% for EU countries. Add to that delivery - about 2K. Assuming those costs, the pricing of the top of the line Han should be about 50K - 60K, a far cry from the nearly 70K that is right now. Chinese car manufacturers won't enter US until the 25% tariff is lifted.
@@gpsfinancial6988Keep in mind - I am only talking about exemptions in China. The exemption was created in 2014 and has been extended currently to the end of 2023. In terms of prices - I have never seen cars be as cheap as they are in China.
do you compare BYD HAN to that stupid looking IONIQ?
The same thing happened to Toyota when they started selling cars in the United States back in the day they have to build confidence in their brand you're spending twenty thousand plus dollars
They also need service and delivery facilities, prospective buyers also look to being able to service or repair their vehicles
Indeed, but Japan is not a communist country with totalitarian dictators.
Here is UK BYD Atto 3 has been launched at $40,000+ - it’s just way too expensive when you can get a Model 3 for not much more and several other established makers have good EV’s at the same price. Given the economic situation isn’t good it’s going to be a real uphill struggle to establish a brand at that price.
@@ISuperTed
BYD will undercut with Dolphin then Seagull. Once established Seal and Atto3 well start doing well.
Back in "the day", Toyota were selling new cars in the US for *< $2,000* ‼ _I remember my aunt bought a little datsun for which she took much chiding, but she was price sensitive._
Hi Viking, I live in the U.K.
The Sales Prevention Officers are at it.
An Example- Ora Cat a really great little car with three models, the low range, the one to go for with a good range and the Boy racer model with no advantage over the model with the good range.
So they import only the low range model and call it the Funky Cat that is more expensive than all comparable models ( we were advised it would be £24k ) so no choice just the “Funky Cat” low range- and expensive-unbelievable so Sales are non existent.
People are reluctant to buy from unknown brands mostly because they are wondering about parts availability and service in the not too unlikely case that the brand will disappear. (It's a reason I would not consider a Rivian, let alone an Xpeng.)
If there is a revolution in China parts would be very hard to comeby XD
I think the tension with china and European and western countries has buyers reluctant to buy from and prop up Chinese companies right now.
True. For every time Xi shakes hands with Putin thousands less Chinese cars are sold in Europe.
Maybe. That's because >85% of the Non-Western world is reluctant to buy from & support Western companies.
Why would we pay more for lesser-value Western products? I'm not interested in expensive to maintain EU cars (I come from Europe, but I have holistic ethical mindset).
@@DimitarBerberu Who makes a better car?
Sorry the Chinese cars are not on the same level, than the European EVs. They are not. But they want the same money or more, then the local brands. Charging for BYD is 5 minutes at low kWh than ramps up to 70-90 and stays there till 90%. The Europeans do 140-200kw/h at the charger for the first 20 minutes. That means you can recharge and go much faster. The driving assistances are not on the same level for BYD. Definitely not. The cheap price in China is also for lower specs. Like bad brakes, if you want the good brakes like Brembo, they are not cheap anymore. No long term experience, no repair network, no secured spare parts. Buying a Chinese brand is a total gamble, like the Koreans 20 years ago.
As far as I know China hasn't declared war on any western country? It's just excuses to be racist.
Just bought a BYD Atto 3 in Thailand. I have owned over 70 cars in my, and I find this EV amazing. Much better than some of the other brands in Europe on your list. Great value and quality for the money.
in before his car explodes
It will be a rust bucket. Get rid.
Remember this comment when you decide to replace the batteries. Soon you will realise the resale value of a wuhan car.
how much did it cost?
@@akeshshi9137Heres the salty Indian. At least Chinese have car brands and tech brands. Indians don’t have a single car i have seen here in Australia but BYD i have started to see more and more. Keep talking bud why don’t you put your hate into something more useful.
The main reason is that brand recognition and trust takes a long time. It might be true now, but in a couple of years time, once people see enough of them, it will become part the list of familiar brands
.
It takes time to know if they are cheap crap, or you can't get parts to repair them, or it's super expensive, or they are dangerous and have a lot of recalls.
@@macmcleod1188 many Europeans think that way but still buy cheap European crap, that in some cases have been crap for a long time. But most Europeans buy expensive and overpriced European brands. You just have to watch European RUclipsrs to se how excited they are over a 120-150.000€ car that’s no better then a Chinese or American car for 2/3 of the price.
I’ve been driving expensive European brands like BMW and Porsche for many years until I switched to Tesla two years ago. Tesla aren’t any worse the they are but cheaper in every way. But we Europeans just love are overpriced luxury cars…
I live in the Netherlands. There are solar parks here that are NOT connected to the grid because there is still no room for the electricity. There are companies here that have their own generators because the grid cannot supply the electricity. Expanding the grid is a huge huge job and takes really a lot of time and money. Electric cars have many many disadvantages and are not as environmentally friendly as they say. Just think of unstoppable fire, declaring the total loss in the event of a very minor damage to the battery. Fixing the car for a lot of money, a $20,000 tesla battery (the time of the cheap repair is over), and so on. I see more in hydrogen, partly because inventions have been made recently that generate hydrogen with very high efficiency and new type engines ....very small with high torck and power
@@gustavgyll3291 I'm sorry... but chinese products are extremely suspect and often of illegally low quality. The parts *look* normal but fail early. Which is not a good idea for brake parts.
Chinese businesses are going to need to deliver quality products and behave ethically for several years (maybe longer) before people trust them. They behaved like Volkswagon did. They have low credibility until they earn a better reputation.
This is especially critical for items that cost over a couple thousand dollars.
PRICE, every person who really considers to buy EV's and isn't "rich" does his/hers do diligence, and then they see, well X car's base model from X brand cost in china $17K but here $34K on what planet would you pay DOUBLE the price? cos then its not a bargain anymore and for $34K you already have other options.. and for the highest trim (which is not even near Tesla in speed, battery, ect..) you have to pay $44K, which is insane, thus the person rather gets a Model3 or a some other western made car...
The main reason is the pricing! and the Tariffs applied in the European Market to Chinese products...
For instance, the BYD Han in China costs 30K but in Europe costs 80K
Instead of competing with a Model 3, it is priced as much as a Mercedes E Class.
Damn
Well, chinese tariff over europeans cars seems to somehow backfire. These tariff are pretty much those chineses apply to europeans built cars sold in China.
@@dieselpub2 Top pselling european car in China for years is VW, and built in China, almost all taxis there are VW since very early when the China market opened up after 1980
@@hongsienkwee537 ww cars are, built in China. So no tarif. Chinese car are made in china, so got tarifed
@@hongsienkwee537 i corrected my previous comment. But basically, tariff do no depend of the company country, but on where the good is made. Chinese would be able to sell cars in Europe with no fee, if they were built in Europe. Pretty much like Japanese manufacturers are doing for decades.
From Ireland here, and while MG EVs doing Ok - particularly with taxi drivers ... there is however an undercurrent of concern about dealing with China. We know we already have a lot of Chinese electronic stuff, phones etc.. and a good cross section of people are concerned about increasing trade from China - especially a big ticket item like a car. I gather there are some BYD and Nio cars here in the country - a few RUclips reviews ... but I've not seen any on the road yet - and I live quite near to the area in south Dublin where many of these new car companies seem to base themselves (Tesla has been there a while) . The Irish love affair is mostly with Korea - Hyundai Tucson best selling Irish market car and Ioniq 5 frequently topping the EV charts, along with VW. Pre-EV, our ICE-car love affair frequently saw Skoda topping the charts here. So, it's a political awareness thing with China - like some other commenters on here have said.
MG is definitely doing okay in the UK and building up popularity in Ireland. There are at least 4 or 5 dealers in Ireland. By contrast BYD has zero, although apparently they are planning to enter the market in 2023 somehow.
Do you find Ireland less worried about Climate Change? Their Electric is still very dirty and Cattle Farming seems "untouchable" even with its very negative pollution and dominance of land available for arable production??
I agree to your point of having concerns related to China. EVs are extremely dependent on the software and payment environment around them. So what happens if the communists decide to invade Taiwan? Will they switch off remotely all Chinese EVs? Or will they crash them into walls to kill the passengers? Nobody knows, what they are planning for. Plus all data from the vehicle flows into Chinese cloud servers and intelligence companies. See the somewhat similar concerns with TikTok.
I am positively sure that I will never buy any kind of Chinese vehicle or anything else which can pose a life threat.
@@spxram4793 That means Chinese Tesla owners should also be worried if war breaks out then the American government will order Tesla to remotely crash all Tesla's in china and collect the data of their owners because let's face it if the American politician's hate all things Chinese then it means they hate all Asians because you cannot distinguish between Chinese ,Koreans or Japanese living in china.
If Chinese brands were selling for prices anything near to Chinese prices, they wouldn't care.
I work in the solar industry, and for what I can tell, it is a lot with that people for example in Sweden do not trust Chinese companies. In my experience that is in solar but a lot of people here simply refuse or have Chinese as a last option because of political views from west and east.
It's all about racism not performance.
In Sweden Nio tried to only lease cars, you couldn't buy them. The prices were also very high, maybe $1100 per month.
Now they have changed and sells cars also but still for high prices.
So here in Sweden I was looking forward to getting possibly more affordable EVs from these chinese brands, but reality is that the BYD Atto 3 is priced the same as the Testla Model 3, that is the higher spec for the Atto and the baseline Model 3, but still, considering Teslas experience and dominance in the field, who would pay that for a completely unknown brand that has shown 0 long term reliability here. Even the cheaper Atto3 is just a negligible amount below the Model3, so I can easily see why people would just shrug and buy a Tesla. They would have to be at least 25% or more cheaper, at least for me to take that chance considering how long term of an investment it is to get a new EV, it is a huge cost. Sweden also no longer has the EV Incentive anymore, which is probably stopping many from jumping in.
I have only seen 1 Atto 3 in the wilds here, but I see probably at least a dozen or so Teslas every single day during my 15 minute commute and in the parking garage I use.
funny, BYD has been making cars longer than tesla
Is there a tax, or tariff, on Chinese EVs in Europe?
I agree byd need to seriously undercut Tesla to gain market recognition otherwise it will take them years to get a foothold here.
BYD barely entered and Tesla reduced prices. The cavalry is dolphin and Seagull then seal. Obviously it takes time to establish a brand. It's similar to Japanese in the 70s except Chinese have to overcome geopolitical perception but they do have a headstart in EV technology
I don't know why you would even compare atto3 with model 3. One is a compact SUV, the other is a sedan.
I for one, was really excited about the Atto3 coming to the UK. Pricing in Europe was expected to be around €32000 for the top version. When it arrived it was €35000, then when it finally came to the UK it was priced at £39000!
I'm sorry but at that price, nobody in their right mind is going to buy one here, especially as BYD have virtually no brand awareness(I haven't yet seen any advertising) and the value of used ev's are in free-fall at the moment. About 4 months ago I looked at the value of my leased Kia e-Niro 4+; they were selling(at a year old) for their original price when they were new - £39000. Now they are at £30000 and still falling! A slightly lower spec 3 model is £25000. Nearly all new ev's are leased as company cars because of the tax incentives in the UK, hardly anyone is buying them privately as they are just too expensive. The way things are going, I can see the big 2035 switch off of ICE cars in Europe being a total non-event unless something drastic happens. I am looking at retiring soon and my beloved e-Niro will be going back to the leasing company. What will I replace it with? Well, I can't afford to buy an ev so it will be back to ICE for me and that saddens me greatly. 😢
I watch UK youtube channels and they have more affordable EV’s in the Uk than we do in the US. Aren’t most of the MG EV’s around 30k?
The Atto 3 has received a very luke warm reception from the UK motoring press. Badly packaged, lack of dealers and support and too expensive to name a few areas that have been criticised.
@@kyliefan7 They start at £27k and go up to £32k. I would say though that the range is a lot less than they say and the interior upholstery quality is poor.
Great drivers car though!
@@malph9216 Exactly. From what I've seen of Chinese cars so far, I'm not impressed.
I think you are partially correct.
Part of the problem in Europe and the UK is that the Chinese manufacturers are just not known by the general public to even exist. MG is the only one that is still known, and that is only because of it's heritage as an English sports car manufacturer in the dim and distant past. Otherwise, ask any average person on the street to name a single Chinese car manufacturer, and I'll bet they couldn't name a single one (with the possible exception of MG as I said). So whenever anyone is looking to buy a new car, they automatically look at the well-known "legacy" brands and don't even know that the Chinese manufacturers even exist.
Combine that lack of knowledge-penetration with the fact that for most people, the phrase "made in China" equates to low quality and very poor reliability. Those "in the know" understand that in recent years (VERY recent years), the quality of Chinese cars has improved greatly. But for the average person, they only think Chinese made = poor quality & poor reliability.
The Chinese need to do some *serious* PR to get their message out there that they do _now_ finally, at last, do actually build some good cars.
And to add insult to injury, there is also the question of manufacturer longevity. Will this "unknown" brand still be around in 5, or 10 years when I start needing spare-parts or maintenance......?
It's all perception.
When the EV educated folk buy in, owning an EV means the OS is half the importance of the car, they just go with a Tesla as the OS is tight, snappy and easy. Struggling with the OS is a huge issue for other makers. I guess Tesla knew that was of high importance from the get go.
After many years of EV research, I’m yet to buy one, and will soon I think, and there’s really only one contender, and I’m kinda waiting for Highland to drop because an M3 refresh sounds great.
I own an EV... and frankly the daily driving portion of the equation is MUCH more important to me than the OS. In fact, that's why I didn't buy the obvious M3 of MY (experiencing phantom braking on a test drive didn't exactly endear Tesla to my wife either... appearently the shadow of a highway overpass was incredibly dangerous). To me, Tesla undoubtedly has the best UI, battery management and performance/price out there... plus the best charging network by a country mile. However, to me they ride poorly, are still put together poorly, don't have basic parking sensors(!) and even with double glacing they are noisier than their competition. All of these factors would annoy me day to day... the OS I'd just get used to. Again it's a matter of personal preference and this is just mine.
Tesla cars are not good drives. I bought a model U, had it for 2 weeks before selling it and buying an atto 3. Atto 3's build quality is much, much better. It's a real car unlike Tesla.
Another vote for the OS not being a big deal, coming from a person that had deal with a MY. Sure, the OS is probably the best in any EV, but I would've traded it away in a heartbeat for a couple of physical switches. It simply does not matter.
@@TeeFunkable this. I also wanna add that voice command isn't a solution.
@@elmohead Amen. Tried it a couple of times and I have to admit that while I could, maybe, tolerate feeling like douche while alone, using that while having passengers is a no go. I I'd rather feel like the idiot who got swindled into using everything through an ipad to save money on few effin switches. Also: English is not my first language, but I do not have a thick accent or anything . My retired parents though, that could realistically be in the market for a car like this, just laughed at the touchscreen "solution" and then shook their heads when I told that someone brainfarted the idea of using voice control instead..
Thanks for this video. Prices for Chinese EVs are very high, totally unrelated to the price in China. Why pay a premium for a car from a brand that may not be there tomorrow?
I can remember as a kid in the early 80’s when the first one of my friends parents bought a Honda. Another friend said to me, “Wiley sold his Oldsmobile and bought a Honda…he must be crazy!” That same friend ended up driving a Honda when he went to college a few years later. Back then, there was a general consensus that Japanese cars were shabby little shit boxes, but that perception changed 180 degrees in a few years time. If the Chinese auto makers can survive long enough maybe they’ll see a similar change in perception amongst the Europeans.🤔🥴😊
But that has also to do with culture (and same for Korea). These are countries where people are obsessed with engineering, technology, higher education. China isn't exactly the same and hasn't the same image.
china has never stood for quality and its hard to change that now
@@aesma2522 China is exactly the same in this, it doesn't have that image... Yet
@@aesma2522 True. Japanese quality and improvement is something that was integrated into their culture for generations (although some western dummies claim it was their idea).
@@FOLIPE “yet” Like they have that integrated into their culture. Ha ha. They aren’t even cheap, like how they supposed to be. Europeans are wise in not buying stupid, expensive, communist government tracked, stolen technology Chinese shit cars.💩
Good send them to Australia
LoL
Yes, waiting for BYD Seagull
There is a massive negative reputation hurdle of Chinese product quality to get over. I myself always struggle to get over this hurdle. I have been bitten to many times with inferior products .
I think like investor & do the opposite. The future is in Asia/BRICS/China.
When BYD Seagull arrives in Australia it will be the safest EV buy (after my bicycle with electrified body push ;)
As the video said, most of these Chinese EV manufacturers are losing serious money. I would hesitate to buy products from companies that may or may not exist in a few years.
Yes, including China built iPhone with inferior S/W that doesn't run as well on most others devices like Android or HarmonyOS.
Most of the products I have are Asian & I don't trust Western overpriced variants.
@@DimitarBerberu well yeah if i want crap phone i buy chinese designed phone, that displays advertisements when i use it and cant turn the advertisements off, like xiaomi redmi lineup. if I want just as costly car as tesla, but only literally everything is jankier and sucks, I buy chinese ev.
@@Redmanticore BYD (& few other Chinese prestige brands) is better value than the overpriced Tesla. For ethical reasons, I avoid buying from bullies. When you mentioned phones I never buy inferior iPhones & I'm IT pro (Galaxy S23 Ultra, just because of the S-pen & 8K 30f/s video, next >5y will be Chinese).
China is now superior in tech (with many other affordable cheaper options for everyone).
I think it’s pretty simple. Why buy a car from a company that may go belly up in a year or two?
Apart from brand recognition, and taxes, dealership and warranty are another thing that European buyers are concerned about, in the Netherlands Louwman is now a dealer for BYD
Thanks for telling the hard truth! IMO, there are too many car makers. Maybe it will take some years for the stronger ones to step up
The German and many Euro country consumer mindset and pride will always make the Chinese EV entrance difficult- in mind will be the Covid episode, and who caused the mayhem, the resultant shut downs and Chinas support for Russia. An iced mountain to climb. I don’t think the majority of consumers want to be associated in any way with supporting Chinese products- they might be acutely aware and afraid of being scolded and laughed at.
BINGO !
Especially Xi Jinping hugging Putin is a bad sight for us. Not gonna support Xi Jinping who supports putin.
Yep agree
China is the largest market for Airbus,LV, Hermes, Prada, VW, BMW, Benz, Moet Chandon, Cognac so go figure.😂
@@noahlee4764 What is LV?
EV adoption worldwide will be bloody competitive at the outset. It probably will create diversity in price and market segmentation. Bad for investors but great for consumers
yes and no, the only reason they fail is PRICE.... i mean in China they sell a certain car for converted to US $17K, and when the same trim level arrives in the UK it starts from £28K = $34.8K aka DOUBLE the price.... if it where let say $25K people would buy it like candy... and the higher trim of $22K is $44.8K for which you already get a western well known brands car, which have almos a century of legacy and name recognition, and "trust" and services built out.
The MG4 EV is selling very well in the UK
Europeans think they are higher than English.
MG is own by china.
MG will survive.
MG sales seem to have dropped quite a bit in Germany at least. Even Before Tesla's price drops.
MG has brand recognition; it may be Chinese owned but it is also a British brand that is 100 years old. Also British people have fond memories of the old MG sports cars from the 60ies and 70ies.
Sales will come eventuality. This is a marathon and not a sprint. Public needs to be convinced about quality, reliability and service, especially for lower cost cars, which takes time.
What aren't they sending more EVs to Australia, we have so little choice down here and what we do receive sells like wildfire. They are missing out on pretty much guaranteed sales in Australia. 😭
Right hand drive, that's why.
No vehicular emission standards in Australia mean EVs are prioritised to go to other countries that do which is all OECD countries except Russia. Fed Gov is expected to do it this year despite Toyota pressure not to…
In the UK MG is quite well known and their are so many RUclips videos on them expecially the MG 4. The only reviews I see on BYD and NIO cars are from Bjorn Nyland, no one else seems to be talking about them.
I think that’s because they aren’t on sale in the UK yet. The BYD Atto got a lot of coverage from UK RUclipsrs once it was confirmed as coming to the UK in RHD
Tesla is not a traditional German car company but they are made in Germany so maybe the fact that the others are made in China and thus jobs in China not Germany
you'd think consumers care where their cars are made? It's because of the brand.
@dxelson The Germans care. But most other EU countries don't care they just want a Very good car.
Remember that news that Germans were up in arms about Tesla using batteries from China. I think there's something there.
@@icosthop9998 I don't believe that for one moment. France, for one would care.
Lynk and Co 01 is best selling car in the Netherlands amongst all cars. It's only made in China.
Japan and China have been building airplanes for years, but the sales are meager. A major factor is that Boeing claims that if a Boeing Airplane needs a part ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, it will be delivered in about TWO hours or less. Even Tesla can't manage that! The Chinese have yet to start building a Supply Base to match this level of service globally, & I doubt they can afford it!
Hey Viking, I'm in Europe and it's true, EVs from China are not being marketed aggressively at all. Some dealerships have a side section where they've partnered with Ora or MG but it's an afterthought and a curiosity. You don't get a proper brochure just a piece of paper with some pricings and that's it. Regarding the MG4 although it got rave reviews for driving performance it's got too many software issues and MG are unresponsive to fix them. I was in the market for one but a quick look on the MG forums shows many problems and the dealers haven't been given the know how to fix them. On top of this in general Chinese naming can be weird and doesn't translate well, for example who wants to drive a "funky cat" ?😅 I as well thought Chinese EVs would have taken over by now but it's not happening just yet. Maybe they need to buy some defunct brands like Saab or Rover or something to be taken seriously.
I'm really keen on the BYD Seal, I live in the UK. I know they are now selling the ATTO 3 here, but try finding any info on them with regarding to buying one..... There's pretty much no info out there, it's as if they don't have a footprint in the UK at all. The only place an Atto 3 can be found is on the leasing sites.
@@pauldoree3967 Me2. If they don't want too much I will get one. But, it has to be cheaper then brands which are already here. That they have to understand. Why else should I buy it?
@@knabbagluon with you entirely. I currently have a Tesla Model 3 Performance, lease ending soon. The Seal will need to be cheaper for me to take the chance and move to BYD. If they market it at around the same price as the equivalent Tesla, I would probably not change.
@@pauldoree3967 yes. I think it has to be around 35k max. Better 30k.
@@knabbagluon I’m. It hopeful at all. I think the dual motor Seal will be around £50k+
European and other nations support their own national brand, European brands.
A foreign brand especially from China have to be very price competitive and also have good review to even consider as in the competition
Good job Sam. Interesting News…..simple answer in my mind, Europeans just don’t want China to take over the world! So we stop buying their products so far as we can. Its a shame that the European car makers can’t yet match the pricing of the Chinese EVs. Its still a cost thing though for many of us Europeans who actually want to dump our polluting cars for an EV. Keep up the great channel. I just subscribed.
It is not all about the cost of the EV here in Eastern Europe. I made a fool of myself recently when I bet a crowd here that EV's are inevitable and better. I was forced to find a charging station in my area. Found one 30 minutes away which would charge my car in 4-6 hours. The nearest 20min fast charger was 120km away on the main superhighway and for $100K Teslas only. BTW, fast charging a battery shortens its life. Living in a multi tenant home we cannot just rip up the ground to add a high voltage charger to the garage. The final nail in the coffin is the power monopolies now have to import coal from Australia, not Russia, and so they raised their rates. Charging an EV is now just as expensive as gas.
Also worth mentioning the new Polish manufactured Stellantis Jeep Avenger. Gas model 99K zl. Electric model 173K zl.
Given that China is backing Putin's war with economic and possibly military aid (through third-party workarounds) while Europeans' own tax money goes to Ukraine for humanitarian and military aid, I'd imagine lots of European EV buyers are taking a hard pass on even considering Chinese brands at the moment. Plus, decades of trade imbalance with China doesn't help either.
Send to southeast asia. We are waiting and getting impatient.
They are. BYD is builing an EV plant in Indonesia .
BYD will start manufacturing in Thailand in 2024
I live in Europe and several elements may explain why Chinese EV don't sell that well:
1. There is a fiscal incentive for companies to buy/lease EV or hybrid cars. They will prefere European brands, and most are hybrid cars.
2. Tesla's charging network
3. Chinese cars are as expensive as, or even more than European EVs, no incentive to buy them. For instance BYD is as expensive as Tesla's equivalent model.
4. European brand recognition
6. European brands have a garage and maintenance infrastructure. Where do you go if you have a problem with your chinese car ?
7. Same for road assistance in case of trouble.
8. Insurance companies add a premium because of the lack of history : cost of repair, security, etc
9. Chinese cars didn't adapt their cars to benefit from local European fiscal incentive plans, Tesla did.
10. Europe and USA political nd economical tensions with China. China supporting Russia in the war with Ukraine, or at least not condemning' Russia's invasion.
excellent points. i would add European countries should build/ maintain their own stregnth and not allow another country to gut its industry/jobs. US made a big mistake in helping/trusting China and now we are in a fight for survival of democracy around the globe
I saw an interesting post yesterday about someone who has purchased a BYD in the UK but they couldn’t get it insured as insurance companies don’t hold any data on the cars. That will slow down sales until the insurance companies catch up
EEEEKKKK
Nice traitor and egg roll car
Hi Sam, thanks for your video. Contrary to you, I am not surprised by the lack of success of Chinese brands in Europe. I have an electric-only vehicle rental business in Portugal and I personally own 4 Chinese BEV cars manufactured by JHC (Hebei province I believe). Most arguments about buying Chinese cars in Europe are already in the comments, but here is my point of view as a recurrent buyer and an owner.
1) brand building takes time anyway and Chinese start with a handicap, as we europeans know them for their cheap gadgets and shitty products (buy anything on Aliexpress and you get what I mean);
2) they are not well known by the general public and there is a doubt on their durability and capacity to provide long-term assistance. We have the experience of big multinationals that come with big promises and run away two years later to focus back on their home market or whatever marketing BS they see fit. Are we sure the Chinese will provide spare parts 5 years on?
3) some people are weary of trading with Chinese companies and be caught in big geopolitical shenanigans;
4) price of available Chinese cars is too high: prices are on par with European models, so what is the point of buying Chinese?
5) most Chinese cars are not a good fit for our culture: we appreciate good-looking, well-finished, reliable cars that project style, class and good taste. Our main criticism to Tesla cars is the misalignment of parts like the hood, doors, dashboard or even rearview mirrors, which project bad taste and bad quality according to our standards... so imagine when we closely examine a Chinese car! Even the cars that were exposed in the Paris Auto Show last October were subpar! Cars like the Dacia Spring -which is a Chinese car directly imported and rebranded by the Renault Group- are rightly positioned as bare-bones very low-cost (and therefore low-expectations) vehicles.
For me, the most problematic factor is that, put simply, many Chinese vehicles are badly built by European standards. Having my 4 JHCs running is a permanent infuriating hassle and I have multiple recurrent problems with rust (I live by the sea), battery defaults, loose parts on the dashboard, plastic parts that break simply by touching them, fragility of the suspensions... In light of my 3-year experience operating this business and owning personally Chinese cars in France and Portugal, in order to buy Chinese, I expect at the very least a 40% discount compared to an equivalent European car.
Hope this helps you understand why I won't buy Nio, MG or BYD, as many europeans who have a choice.
Narrow-minded. Only europeans think highly of their own car brands. Byd atto is gaining popularity in many countries
@@TangtangTangvancach The subject of Sam's video is: why do Chinese car makers sell so few cars in Europe ? Your answer is that europeans think highly of their own brands. Of course! It's because our cars are made to our taste. I see that many people in the world outside Europe do not care about panels alignment (this is an example)... well, we do.
totally agree with you, they're pure trash far away from Japanese and Korean EV cars
I was thinking about buying a Chinese car, but as the Chinese government has behaved absolutely abhorrent in the Russia-Ukraine war, I changed my mind.
War is coming. I hope all those people that bought Chinese are happy to send their kids into battle
From many comments below, the major issue for the China's EV is PRICING.
They must set the price much lower then others to have a good start for their new brand, not the other way around.
But l think the China's EV maker have analyzed the European market all out, maybe other factors like tariff that pull them back since the EV has not been manufactured in European land.
I run a car wash with a touchless automatic that washes the car just with high pressure water and soap. To give everyone an idea: you can hold your hand in front of the water stream and it won't hurt you.
One day a 3 year old "Great Wall" went into the machine and it "blew off" both (left and right) standard roof racks that supposed to hold luggage on the roof!!
Thankfully this happened at our carwash and not out on the road with luggage attached. On closer inspection we also noticed the rubber around the windows completely disintegrated. What a POS after only 3 years.
GWM = Great Wall Motors (Haval, Ora, etc.)
No way would I buy one. That's for sure.
Europeans, especially Germans, are very quality sensitive and conservative. Many wouldn't touch poor quality no matter how it shines.
NIO is way too expensive here in Norway. And they haven’t delivered all the battery swap stations they promised. The stations were supposed to be automated but so far they are staffed and that cost a lot of money.
Newsflash: The swap stations will always be staffed! I work in fully automated semiconductor facilities. They were supposed to be dark boxes, where you could turn out the lights and materials would go in, and finished products come out....LOL! Never gonna happen. It turns out that moving things will eventually break.....WHAT?
Imagine if at 2:00am, a swapper decides to break after a battery has been removed, but before the next one is installed. Front page, headline news that you don't want.
@@TeslaDo_d Ship Engine officer myself and things can always break down there is no such thing as no maintenance or breakdowns.
@@Infernal_Elf Some manufacturers can't even make reliable DC charging stations even though they have no moving parts except for the cable.
I live in Finland and Chinese EV's are really rare, but EV's in general make up only 1.2% of the Finnish car market. People in Finland will drive a car for years, you still see so many cars from the 80's and 90's on the road. It's not a Finnish thing to have a Shiney new car the prices are far too high as are the prices of used vehicles. I did see a Chinese SUV that was just introduced to Finland, they wanted €60,000 for it. Nobody is paying €60,000 for a Chinese SUV.
exactly
Viking, this exactly relates to a comment I made on another of your videos. Westerners, both Americans and Europeans (and Canadians) simply don’t trust Chinese companies.
Chinese sales successes have been primarily in selling either under a Western brand (Apple iPhones or GE appliances, for example), or selling components to Western companies (battery packs to Western car companies, for example).
And a few unique cases such as Volvo and Lenovo, where consumers don’t really identify the company with China.
And TikTok, but that’s free.
This will almost certainly change as the quality of Chinese EVs becomes undeniable. And once a few consumers buy, more will buy, and then more, etc.
But for now, Western consumers are even more wary than Western governments of Chinese companies. The reputational attacks on China have been very successful. And everyone remembers the memes about disastrous Chinese car crash tests. And melanin in milk, lead in toys, etc. It will take time and effort to overcome this.
And this is not even taking into account all the ways Western governments hamper advanced Chinese product sales in strategic industries like the EV car industry. Germany will never allow BYD to displace its big 3 car companies (and neither will German car buyers) no matter how good BYD’s EVs get. It’s like the Japanese and rice or the French with cheese. Foreigners will simply not be allowed to put the hometown heroes out of business.
This is why when you focus so much on how far behind Japanese and European and non-Tesla American EV companies are compared to BYD and other Chinese companies, that is not seeing the full picture. Yes, BYD is ahead of Toyota in EVs. But Toyota can sell its inferior EVs in Japan, Europe, and North America, while BYD can’t, even if its EVs are superior, as you point out in this video.
So it’s not a black and white situation. It’s a race between Chinese EV acceptance and non-Chinese technology improvements. I’m guessing the Chinese will do well because their giant home market enables them to fund continuous improvements, and they will have better luck in neutral or friendly markets like Africa and much of Asia. But it’s going to be a tough business and political fight all over the world.
(I don’t want to give the impression that Western governments, companies, and consumers are the only ones playing unfairly. The Chinese are masters of the art of using and abusing Western companies for their own ends. I saw this up close in some of my work).
You are obviously not from Europe. Huawei was huge in phones in Europe before the Americans employed all illegal means they could think of to kill Huawei. Xiaomi is also huge in Europe. All my electronics is Chinese and it is head and shoulders above the Korean, Japanese and American stuff quality-wise. I've had them all. The American were so bad it's not even worth talking about. Japanese were all buggy and build quality was not good. The Korean were better but still with bugs (from day one) and some strange decisions like inferior screen on their top model, etc.
@@svetkali You are sort of making my point. Huawei was becoming dominant in wireless telecom, a strategic industry. So its business was targeted and partially destroyed by the US, with help from Europe and the Five Eyes.
Simply put, Chinese companies will not be allowed to be dominant in strategic industries in Western markets. Telecom infrastructure is a strategic industry and we saw what happened to Huawei. The auto industry is a strategic industry. The same thing would happen to BYD or any other overly successful Chinese car company.
Xiaomi is currently doing well in Europe as you point out. How long do you think their market access would last if they were targeted by the US and the other main Western governments? And if Xiaomi starts doing too well and threatening strategic Western companies, how long do you think before Xiaomi gets accused of spying for the CCP and put on the Entities List?
If Western consumers don’t block Chinese companies in strategic industries, Western governments will do it for them.
The MG 4 have had a lot of ads here in Norway. The sales numbers I have no idea about, but it seems hugely popular here, just that you can’t buy one and drive out the same fay, you have to wait 3-4months. Nio seems like a decent car, but it’s no way cheap- it’s the same price or pricier then VW so basically people who have decided to burn kr 600 000($60 000) on a car can decide between brands they never heard of or brands they know. However with the MG it’s different, “hmm, should I go for a brand I know or save $15 000 and get all the functions and 7 year guarantee, hmmmmmm????”
It would be very hard for me to own a modern electric car with all of its privacy and ownership issues regardless if it's made here or US but Chinese made? I know quality wise even Tesla that's been in the game the longest still has issues, a new player and Chinese is a no go.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in love with the BYD blade battery but that's emotional talk for the specs, time will tell if the IRL deal is as good.
Do you think that the lack of Chinese EV sales might just be a reflection on how the CCP is perceived in Europe?
Totally agree, Sam I’ve been watching your channel pretty much from the beginning and you were the first to enlighten us about China EV’s
ruclips.net/video/yOA7qKMcjcE/видео.html
Dear Mr Viking, Could you not consider for one moment that everything in the car market sector is not always driven by short-term profits for the manufacturers, and savings for the consumers? How about if we in Europe were starting to clearly realise that the rise of Chinese industry frequently leads to the decline of our own? Therefore we might not want to buy Chinese cars on principle? Just a thought...
When i was in Italy, every time I complained about the price the Italians would say " if you want a cheap copy then buy Chinese "
chinese car makers are using european prices in europe though.
agree
Buying a car is a long term proposition for most people. Can you rely on Chinese Govt long term to allow these companies to operate and provide parts for maintenance or accidents?
Europe is going to take some time to adopt Chinese cars. but given the Chinese reputation, getting Europe to buy mid to premium cars will not work.
China should be selling smaller cheaper cars to Europe first. It's not the demand but is the product packaging and pricing.
Seling cheap to reinforce stereotypes of cheap junk? I think the management in Chinese car manufacturer are smarter than that. Why shall I eat dirt when I can deliver premium products with comepetetive price to make legacy maker consumer feel they paying primium just for the badge? That is exactly what Hongqi, Nio and XPeng ate doing. It takes time to get the word out, and legacy maker are definitely feeling the pressure. Lexus in North America is doing exactly that, asking premium price for a leather seat. But the onboard system is a generation behind its Toyota counterpart from the same era, and ride quality is not substantial better. It is just not economically justify to pick a lexus over a toyota in the same segment
@@林振华-t4v He did not say cheap but CHEAPER and I think he has a point. The Japanese and Korean successes in the car market did not start with their Lexuses and Genesis. They started with smaller and cheaper cars and with growing acceptance, so too did their higher marques grew. Fact of the matter is that of current, Chinese brands are not widely acceptable and it will take some time for that to happen. Nothing to do with quality otherwise everyone will be scrambling for a HongQi H9.
In the UK I brought a European brand for two reasons. Short supply chains for spares first. Most important I do not want to make a large purchase from a country that constantly makes aggressive threats against mine and bangs the war drums. No salesman who is rude and aggressive is going to get my money.
Short supply chain? Are you sure? Last time I check a F30 3er OEM tail light. It is made in Korea. There are bits here and there coming from other place. I know back in E46 3er era, some of them came from South Africa
also the residual value risk is something that you need to be compensated for by lower price as there are no residual valutslaget to be seen
Here in Croatia for example. Would you rather buy MG 4 for 40k or Tesla 3 for 45k ? Yea, I thought so. Tesla is another galaxy away from MG4.
Not specifically only about Chinese EVs, but I wonder how long until we see a genuine open source car operating system, and some sort of standardization, a bit like a Linux distro, so car owners can customize their car operating system if they choose.
Security and safety with wannabe software guru's playing ego games risking other peoples lives
I bought BYD Atto 3 last week (UK). I believe is an excellent car. Compared to others it has all the gadgets I need, excellent and comfortable driving.
I was between Tesla 3 and Atto, but Atto offers more then Tesla in terms of internal space and boot.
I do not think price is that high based on the fact that they give you all gadgets, heat pump, free colour, cables, liners. Warranty is more than on Tesla.
I had some opinions from the Australian group, and they were all positive.
I think Chinese are still researching the market. You said the are planning a factory in Thailand to produce for the UK market. If we do not see that many BYD’s around, it means the factory does not work yet.
Here in the Philippines, Chinese cars have a spare parts problem when cars break down or needs a replacement part, normally a 2 month wait. Maybe it's the same thing in Europe?
We had a Honda Civic blow it's gearbox. It took twelve weeks to get the parts shipped from Tokyo.
Europeans just prefer European cars , and if not available for the exact product they want, they will go for Korean or Japanese brands.
In some countries Ford also has a presence (locally manufactured though).
@@jimgraham6722 What civic gearbox did you have to get from Tokyo? Every Honda dealer I've been to could rebuild a civic without waiting on parts.
@@RCXDerp It was a Civic hybrid. The bit that snapped was the torque mixer.
Nio initially adopted the subscription service model in Germany and a few countries. But they're starting to accept purchase orders. That may explain the lower sale number initially.
I'd like to think there are a lot of people like me who aren't going to spend their money on products from China, who supports Russia's aggression in the Ukraine, and doesn't let their own people vote, and....well there are thousands of reasons, and people need to vote for the world they want with their wallets!
BINGO! Coal power plant permitting, construction starts and new project announcements accelerated dramatically in China in 2022, with new permits reaching the highest level since 2015. The coal power capacity starting construction in China was six times as large as that in all of the rest of the world combined. A congressional estimate in the U.S. placed the cost of Chinese intellectual property theft at 225-600 billion dollars yearly. According to a CNBC survey, 1 in 5 corporations say China has stolen intellectual property within the previous year, while 1 in 3 said it had happened some times during the previous century. XI supports PUTIN. Why would I support the Chinese regime with my wallet? I'll buy American Tesla and get a better car and support FREEDOM and the RULE OF LAW.
@@beautifulgirl219 laughable!! China is way more democratic than the US or Europe. In China you can’t get elected to move up the meritocratic system by just being a clueless alt-reality tv celebrity clown or a smooth talking charming personality like in both Europe and the US. As for freedoms that’s the biggest brainwashed nonsense ever. In Chinese society you have more freedoms than in any place in the US. Chinese cities as big as they are are the safest cities in the world. Schools are the safest in the world, police aren’t cruising around hunting down citizens to harass, beat up or shoot. Women and children are safe in public. As for this nonsense of elections or democracy. Every member of the Chinese government has to work their way up by being voted by the village, community, town, city, province they represent, and you have to start at the village level as Xi Jinping did. Americans are the most clueless ignorant brainwashed lemmings of all developed nations. As for Chinese products they are amongst the best in the world (ask musk who’s his biggest EV competitor and he’ll say BYD). Space system programs China surpasses the US. Military China has more advanced and superior weapons than the US. Cities and domestic societal infrastructure no nation on earth can compete with china. More Tesla’s are made in China than anywhere else. Again the level of bias ignorance of the average American is laughable
I guess people voted for the U.S's proxy war in Yemen which resulted in over 130k civilians starved to death? Or the indifference bombing of Iraqians?
The real problem is that some of the western population actually believe their votes matter --- The fact is U.S and NATO are just as evil as the CCP and those who live the west benefit greatly from their "military operations" --- Your moral high ground never existed.
Yes, agree with this too.
I'm not from Europe and will only buy Chinese. ASEAN and Gulf Countries Iran Russia and Latin America already Chinese best sellers!
You need to have a place to bring it in for service and repairs. Mine would be 2 hours by car away for an MG, while the already settled brands have their dealers and service stations 15 minutes away, including Tesla. Teslas are too big until now, but...
And most EVs are just too expensive for what people need - not compared to other over the top equipped cars costing 50.000 and more if you want to have heated front seats and rear parking beepers (ID3, because that comes in expensive packages combined with too much stuff), but compared to what the people need.
Hi Sam, I really wanted an atto 3 after looking at various videos over the last year or 2. But £38000 in the UK. Not at this price I went for an under 2 year old model 3, for £34000. I think the reason Chinese cars are not selling is the price, in my experience Chinese cars are only cheap in China.
Maybe its a strategic thing before attracting enough attention then cut the price dramatically. Tesla did it exactly the same between 22-23 in China which boosted the sale.
the problem is the mark up. i think they feel it is always easier to cut prices than to raise prices so they don't want to set the price low. when push comes to shovel, they will cut the prices. current pricing leaves a lot of room for that. for example, byd atto3's cost is below 20k usd but its price in europe is 38k euros. I am not as positive on nio and xpeng because their cars cost more to make. but byd, u can count on it to shatter the pricing of the industry.
MG are selling better in the UK as they sell EV's that cover the 'estate car' part of the EV market.
Hi Electric Viking
Just to expensive we get ripped off in the uk.
The ora price about £32000. When they are that expensive people would rather pay a bit more and have a Tesla
With European buyers there were Chinese ICE cars before with a terrible crash rating and designs that did not appeal to a European taste. So now EV's from China are viewed with distrust. MG4 was designed in the UK but manufactured in China. Furthermore performance is getting great reviews by the European press and RUclipsrs. For me in Amsterdam I would not buy a BYD, etc. because I am worried about our relationship with China. If war does break out in Taiwan in the coming years, relations with China could be severed. How will you get service on a BYD car if that happens. Spare parts? Company finances in Europe? Tesla remains a better bet in that case. But thats just me.
Agreed from Ireland using second hand IC sub $1500 as I cheap sKate
Sam.. aside from the fact that you are an admirable man, a great father and a “good Egg”. What stands out (for me) is that you are “quick on the uptake “
What do an mean ? …
Well you are fast to analyse trends and changes. You present your findings very quickly! Way ahead of the MSM and even faster than other you tube channels !
Well done. Best wishes. Love to your wife and youngsters.
I sure can't venture a guess, but I will say this. If I were the Chinese autocrat I would look at this and want the war in Ukraine and bad relations with the West to end.
I visited Zeekr to get update. If you purchase a car in English they don’t provide software updates for you. Also they don’t have Apple play. The real warranty is 6 years 150,000 kms. They are obviously still sorting things out as they intend on marketing in EU.
Hopefully they let their citizens vote someday.
Someday is too far. They need it sooner ;)
Chinese are all allowed to vote. Go google please.
Hopefully NATO stop invading countries. Well, too late,............ the rest of the world ahead dumping the dollar and BRICS are uniting in the face of illegal sanctions and NATO aggression for decades.
I am confused too. In the UK I am seeing lots of Polestars and MGs, do people, as you suggest, think these are not Chinese? I wonder if familiarity will eventually bring down a lot of obstacles? I do think, as do most of the comments by the look of it, that price is key. MGs were selling well because they are cheap, with the MG4 they are cheap and good. If the other Chinese makers expect to compete directly with the established premium brands, they will surely fail.
The Chinese EVs are simply too expensive in the UK.
And there's not many of them, yet.
I'd be happy to buy one if it was competitive.
It's a question of trust, it took the koreans decades to be trusted in europe, they had to sell their cars with double the warranty length of european ones for years for buyers to trust them.
And China has a way worse reputation of making unreliable products, it's fine when it's small electronics, but you're trusting your life to a car...
Then there is the chicken and egg problem of an established network: if you buy european you know it will be easy to get parts and get it repaired, it's more convenient.
And finally don't underestimate the patriotism: French people still mostly buy Peugeot and Renault despite these brands being mostly shit, any japanese or korean car is way superior for the same price. So it will take a while before people start trusting the Chinese, when you see how they build apartment blocks it doesn't give you much confidence their cars are gonna be worth it.
viv la france! Great brands and all countries must protect themselves from unfair Chinese trade practices that will gut indusrty.
Thanks for sharing and surfacing the truth. 👏👍
The Chinese companies are entering a market v loyal to their European brands. The new Chines brands have no choice but to sell their cars as bargains. BYD is apparently trying to sell their Atto3 just under the price of the Model Y. Stupid. The price in Australia is closer to mark, but with Tesla lowering the price here in past couple of days BYD might have to drop price here to mid $40ks to keep selling. Its a really good car but price is important, especially when entering a new market with established brands. Additionally, after watching numerous British reviews of the Atto 3, its clear that the Chinese brands will have to fight the old imperialist mind set too. Happy to take an MG because that is Britishish, ok to take a Volvo/Polestar because that's sort of Swedish. Teslas are ok even if made in China. But pure Chinese brands are below them especially if they are asking the same money as Europeans
I think the main problem is BYD are relying a third party distributor to sell their EV, that the reason why the price is high
Maybe geopolitics? Europeans are starting to distrust China for supporting Russia?
It's brand snobbery, you don't want your neighbours thinking you're buying a cheap car 😂
also supporting an enemy country
@bullpup1337 well maybe, or maybe they are the enemy because we are told they are a threat by mostly the American government. It all comes back to money and America don't want China to take there place in the No.1 spot.
Maybe
The only reason is supply. BYD and others have only just started exporting.
Very interesting Sam !! Any theories on why? Two that come to my mind:
1. America is an ally, while China has sided with an enemy. President Xi’s bromance with Putin and increasingly aggressive foreign policy is threatening to wind back decades of economic growth in China. It’s a shame as the Chinese people deserve better.
2. There is an obvious quality gap between a BYD Atto 3 and a Tesla Model 3, when you drive both of them, as I have. Germans are discerning buyers and would notice this straight away. The $10K difference in price obviously isn’t enough to induce them to go with the inferior car. BTW Sam, why did you never make that review video of your Atto 3 ownership experience? Is it because you didn’t want to make enemies by pointing out its failings?
Byd seal is known better than Tesla 3. In China, byd seal competes with Tesla 3, not byd atto. Also byd lion would compete with Tesla Y
Europeans are brainwashed by Western Propaganda. Good Luck to more economic recession created by your boss USA. Actually byd is gaining popularity in Asia new Zealand and Australia. It will achieve in South Africa and South America through BRICS.
@@TangtangTangvancach really, citing that BYD is doing great in home country is like kissing your grandmother .. it should do better with all the CCP subsidy
WHy on earth would anyone in Germany buy a Chinese EV when they can buy a Tesla?
While living in Bangkok, Tesla Viking didn't realize that Chinese EVs are dominating the Thai market? Stop looking at the ladyboys, dude! 🤣😎👍
I think the ASEAN market is the main focus for Chinese brand. The European market is just making a present their. Things might change once ASEAN market and South American market along middle east are better established. I would speculate Europe, Japan and Africa will pick up a bit later
@@林振华-t4v yeah southeaat asia have very huge potential market for electric car. Amd its have very few competitor too. In my country, indonesia there is only brand that serious on selling EV, it is hyundai and wuling. BYD is surprising not enter indonesia market yet but i bet that if the pricing was right it could be distrupting the whole indonesia car market just like wuling
It's just a matter of time when people accept Chinese brands as long as Chinese brand cars are good and reliable. People used to reject Japanese cars as well in the 70s. History repeats itself.
Chinese brands will remain junkies because they don't invest on designers and innovators.
Thanks for all the great content, you're a machine! As far as this topic goes - I think there are many factors at play but mainly - really bad product image and expectations for Chinese cars in Europe. Chinese brands tried to get into the ICE market in the EU about a decade ago and miserably failed because their products were terrible on everything except maybe looks, which one could argue were mostly copied from EU brands. Take that image nightmare and combine that with non existing sales and service infrastructure, scaring an already skeptical of EVs mainstream populace (not talking about enthusiasts and early adopters here) and that's how you get anemic sales. But - one only need to look at Japanese brands and most recently Korean brands to see how this can work out. Takes time, super aggressive pricing and in the end just really solid products.
Don't underestimate brand loyalty and perception. In the UK, where I'm from, this is massive, my farther in law for example had a problem with a Ford in the 90's and now even 30 years later wouldn't buy a Ford. These new Chinese brands had neither.
I don’t want to buy their car because one day we will go to war with them and they will kill our people.
I wonder if all the tension with China is affecting there sales
Yes
I was wondering the same thing with Chairman Xi’s closeness to Putin, would be bad for marketing. That would keep me from looking at a known Chinese product.
The German KBA published the March and YTD registration numbers a few days ago:
Nio sold 136 cars so far in 2023 (Jan - March).
BYD sold 64 cars in 2023. Sixty-four cars!
Great Wall Motors: 176
Only MG Roewe did a decent job with 3823 cars sold.
Compare to Tesla who had only an ok quarter: 20655 cars
Not sure I’d spend £30k to £40k on a Chinese electric car and not be sure the company would be around in 5 years. Coupled with this millions of people don’t have a drive way upon which to charge their car and the charging network is crap. In addition we’ve just narrowly avoided a recession so people aren’t buying as many new cars. Exception is the MG brand which is well known in UK
8:30 because there is a little convertible British car called MG and Europeans might think it is the British MG. But if someone already buys something they should find out.
exactly
In Germany Chinese EV’s have a terrible reputation concerning fire safety. Stories are going around of the batteries spontaneously combusting, creating an unquenchable fire that burns down the house attached to the garage the car was housed in.
These stories are told by fire safety officers and they are highly regarded in Germany.
Good video Sam, us in Canada will probably never see a Chinese made ev. Not sure it matters since the attitude about EV is very low in my province, Manitoba. I like the technology but not the price.
Yesterday I was arguing with a British friend about electric cars. I was complimenting BYD on their trolley technology and he said electric cars would never succeed. I asked him why and he said he was an environmentalist and that the waste batteries from the trolley cars would pollute the environment far more than burning gasoline. Hearing this, I smiled and said that you may not know that China has long been able to recycle waste batteries pollution-free and decompose them for recycling. After this he added that there would not be enough power plants to charge electric cars unless more coal-fired power plants were built, which would also pollute the environment. I laughed again and said you're right, it's true for some countries, but it's not the case in China. China has a mature infrastructure, we have thermal power plants, but we also have a lot of wind farms, solar farms, nuclear power plants. At the same time, there is a very innovative thing that you may not know about in the west. I live in a village, and many self-built houses in the village are equipped with solar power panels. The solar power received by these panels can be converted into household electricity. Then they are distributed to other areas with less electricity through the national grid. So electric cars are an irreversible trend, but the scope of your knowledge makes you think it is impossible........ I was arguing with an Anglo-Saxon yesterday about electric cars. I was complimenting BYD on their trolley technology and he said electric cars would never succeed. I asked him why and he said he was an environmentalist and that the waste batteries from the trolley cars would pollute the environment far more than burning gasoline. Hearing this, I smiled and said that you may not know that China has long been able to recycle waste batteries pollution-free and decompose them for recycling. After this he added that there would not be enough power plants to charge electric cars unless more coal-fired power plants were built, which would also pollute the environment. I laughed again and said you're right, it's true for some countries, but it's not the case in China. China has a mature infrastructure, we have thermal power plants, but we also have a lot of wind farms, solar farms, nuclear power plants. At the same time, there is a very innovative thing that you may not know about in the west. I live in a village, and many self-built houses in the village are equipped with solar power panels. The solar power received by these panels can be converted into household electricity. We also get money to distribute to other areas with less electricity through the national grid, so electric cars are an irreversible trend, it's just the scope of your knowledge makes you think it's impossible........ He said nothing after that
Hey Viking, Chinese cars are selling really really well in Russia
that's not true, if you go in Russia you'll see so much Lada and Japanese
Stop the war!
Coal power plant permitting, construction starts and new project announcements accelerated dramatically in China in 2022, with new permits reaching the highest level since 2015. The coal power capacity starting construction in China was six times as large as that in all of the rest of the world combined. A congressional estimate in the U.S. placed the cost of Chinese intellectual property theft at 225-600 billion dollars yearly. According to a CNBC survey, 1 in 5 corporations say China has stolen intellectual property within the previous year, while 1 in 3 said it had happened some times during the previous century. XI supports PUTIN. Why would I support the Chinese regime with my wallet? I'll buy American Tesla and get a better car and support FREEDOM and the RULE OF LAW.
The sentiment in Europe around support for Ukraine is very strong. Most Europeans have had their quality of life - energy costs in particular, impacted negatively by the invasion. Then they see President Xi's continuing support for Putin, and they think buying Chinese is supporting Putin...
How is it not? Tell me how logically if you buy a ccp car that it’s not related to them sending “hunting m16 knockoffs” and “ hunting body armor” for the Russians?