Didn't out work well for Spain and Portugal, who went from global economic superpowers to become some of the poorest countries in western Europe, still widely using horses for transportation in the 1950's. Meanwhile, more industrialized countries charged ahead.
@@larryevans6739 What are you smoking? Spain and Portugal have not been global economic superpowers since the end of the Napoleonic War. They didnt partake in the Industrial Revolution of the 1850's and have been insignificant ever since.
@@csjrogerson2377 I never said they were recently economic superpowers. They failed to evolve and stay competitive, then put in protectionist policies that ended up making it worse. Nothing you said contradicts that. Don't be a jerk.
@@larryevans6739Spain and Portugal were never economic powers. Their wealth came from massive plunder and loot of Americas. The loot was so huge that these countries faced massive inflation for centuries. The loot was never invested to create a real economic base. And when the colonies became independent, both of these countries started to become poorer again. These two countries have been irrelevant for two centuries now. And would continue to remain so for centuries to come.
Thats a lie... Chinese EV-prices in Sweden are "artificially HIGH", not low... The Usd 16.000 ORA Cat is sold here for +€40.000, the Usd 20.000 BYD Atto 3 for €45.000...
You forgot to mention that this lie is being paid by European oil and the ICE industry. Europe is pathetic. Japan is pathetic. The USA at least has Tesla.
@@sic22lhave you checked the difference between warentee policy between EU and their domestic market. And same car roll off from the same production line with identical look but different structure, have you think of the Supplychain nightmare it stem from?
@@林振华-t4v This is a good point. BYD doesn't really know their EU warrantee costs. This is another reason it might be smart of them to overprice for EU a bit in the beginning.
Yeah, but you can argue Chinese EV is low due to subsidizing. In order to compete, VW has to do this. It's the source and structure of this pricing, not the pricing itself.
@@benwlee so whenever we can’t compete, we resort to this tactic. We will say we lost the solar panel battle because of their subsidies. We never look at our cost structure and see where we can improve. Back in 2010, I was really curious how the Chinese can make lighters so cheap, wholesale price is like 15 cents, yet it has 32 parts. They all say it’s government subsidies. I was not convinced, who in their right minds would subsidize lighter manufacturing? I went to Yiwu to find out. It turned out they had perfected the process and they were still making reasonable money. They had a truck that drove through the village, where they threw out the materials to the part makers, and the people who were making the parts threw onto the truck the finished parts. So they were making the components in the villager’s home, basically no overhead. They were making these parts in their spare time just to make some extra money. Also look at how they built their high speed rails, buildings, it’s not something you can explain with subsides. I lived there for about 10 years from 2000 to 2010. I witnessed how a 27 story building was built in a month: day 1, bulldozers demolished the old houses and everything cleared, day 2,3: a big hole was dug, day 4: some strange machinery hammering down many concrete columns in the hole, day 5: underground floor complete, day 6: nothing was happening, from day 7: every day, 2 stories built, constant shipment of steel bars and concrete, before I could finish counting, roof was there with a strange antenna. Then the whole building was wrapped in green fabric top down, I couldn’t see anything anymore. Fast forward to day 26, green fabric wrap was took down, a 27 story building was standing there, windows and granite panels decorated, the next couple of days, sites cleared, heck, huge trees were shipped in and planted, with bags of water and tubing hanging on the trees, shockingly they were treating the trees with infusion! I don’t think any subsidy can do this. It’s time for us to admit that they are doing it better and learn from them. They didn’t shy away learning from us, why is it so hard for us to learn from them? After all, they have a population base of 1.4 Billion, if there’s one smart genius in 10000 people, they have more than 140,000 genius minds. Do the same math and count how many you have? Maybe that will make you humble?
@@manimalworks7424 Yes, I come from a country that started the green screen thingy and the way how a skyscraper is put together quickly. And you know what, for a lot of things that went up quickly, there's a lot of things buried and counted as cost of doing business. I am not saying one way is necessarily better than the other, but simply stating that you won't know details until you look into it. As far as argument goes, we know how Cobalt is mined for example. Now I don't disagree that legacy automakers are dragging their feet on their collective jobs. But that alone is simply one facet of the whole matter and should be assigned precisely. Now, comes to your lighter example. I am sure there are certain governmental involvement to make sure it sets up a noncompeting infrastructure for lighter manufacturing. It is a necessity for them to squeeze the last ounce of everything so to meet the demand of the buyers. Democracy/free market always proves it is messy and not efficient. But I thought we established this a long time ago that it is by design, the purpose is to create competitions and so whatever we are dealing can revolve/evolve. Once you created the 'best' machinery, you tend to fixated on it and will stop right there. It's simply a manifestation of different stages of an industry. As much as I would hold in awe of Chinese scientific advancements, I tend to think that is not how we, as human beings like to live our lives! You know, been told to 'where to go next'. At least for myself, I like to goof around and hope to trip on something interesting in the process. This is, by definition, not efficient. I think this west vs China boils down to how you like to live your lives. Because you should know, if Chinese CCP gets the chance to order you to do their marching, its going to be merciless. You do understand the difference between been a Chinese vis-a-vis Chinese CCP, right? The cost of sustaining into future should also be considered.
@@benwlee True, then in turn, one can argue VW is being subsidized by the German government because it's selling at a low price. 😀And in order to compete, Chinese EV brands were forced to lower price as well. So the culprit is definitely the German government.
@@benwlee In fact, the subsidy is given to all EV makers in China. It comes in 3 forms: 1. government installed millions of charging stations and written down requirements that all new developments: residential or commercial, have to provide certain amount of charging station per project size. Every rest area of expressway installed charging station. 2. 10% of the sale tax is waived for EVs (any EV, doesn't matter which brand or where it's made) 3. Tag special treatment, in big cities, especially Shanghai and Beijing, tags for ICE cars are limited, there's a lottery system. For EVs, no tag limit. Well, that's why Tesla is selling so well in China. You're incentivized to buy one. Based on these information, I can confidently say there's no subsidy to EV makers. There're only incentives for EV consumers. Do you get tax credit in your country when you buy an EV? Is the credit given to all EVs.? In America, we only gave tax credit to Tesla and the big 3. As for German or SK made EVs, no credit. and Chinese EVs? Forget it, banned.
The EU has mandated(because of carbon emissions) that by 2035 all new vehicles sold there will be EV's. The Chinese have started producing and selling EV's to the EU market relativity cheap(much cheaper than the EU manufacturers can. Now the EU wants to put tariffs on these planet saving vehicles. I guess that means that the carbon thing is only a problem if the EU can produce EV's to help solve it. It's like carbon credits, it's ok to pollute as long as you pay a tax.
So, we are now wondering if all these carbon emission and climate change things are just made-up lies by the Western politicians and businessmen who want to make profits on this issue.
@@thamesmud- Hard to say how much renewable electricity in China is used to make EVs as 56% of electricity is from fossil fuels as of a year ago. China is trying to get away from coal but there are economic and environmental issues.
So your country protected it from western trash that would have bought and then devoured your car company. Ask German companies like Linde, Kuka, etc. how "bad" they feel being owned by Chinese companies. Ask companies like Volvo...
The same outcome came about in Australia during the 2010s. Economics is a function of social science. The laws of science will always prevail. Australian nostalgia and jingoism be damned. ruclips.net/video/SAhBpCLsA2I/видео.html
@@근육돌이밥이 Well I'm Malaysian who's ethnically Chinese. Malaysia's population is about 20% Chinese. Geely now owns 49.9% of Proton, and the latest 3 models sold were all rebadged Geelys
@@근육돌이밥이Go research on the Malaysia population by race ratio, since independence from Britain in 1957, 3 major races came together to opt for independence and build this nation. The national car was created in 1985 and a local policy were made to those with political connections and made only a handful rich out of the taxpayer who could buy better quality cars. Sadly the protection policy only made the national car uncompetitive to compete globally against global car brands - economic of scale to produce and development cost spiral , the national car lost billions and sadly taxpayers were burdened to pay and spoon feed a titanic. The government did the right thing to offload a loss making business and Geeley purchased a major share offering technology and retraining of people , launching new models that fits the current market demand from consumers. It’s now making money with local acceptance of the Chinese brand. So before you write and mouth off any Chinese with your inheritance racist education from your government, the Chinese save a lot of locals jobs losses. Go and look at Volvo today with Geeley behind them and Saab under GM, GM wouldn’t sell that loss making brand to any Chinese company and close it down, what happened to all those workers who lost a job globally because of arrogance
hahaaa EU knows very well that it will affect their economies if the chinese cars are flooding. DISASTER for EU economies. Dont think of low prices but POLITICS.
I basically agree, but governments are under pressure to keep their national industries operating in order to protect jobs and their economy. These things are complex.
Same damn panic when Japanese cars started to dominate. However, that was on same technology, so high end European manufacturers simply improved their products. This time, it is a disruptive technology, and Europe is caught with pants down. Smart EU companies are partnering with chinese companied. The chinese do the tech and the europeans do the luxury. Put them together and you have a luxurious, high tech offering. Of course, the politicians think diffrently. Anyway, mark my words on this.
Smart companies actually decouple from China because it is an authoritarian, greedy, soon to be warmongering state that could at any point in near future be our enemy like Russia :)
It has mothing to do with any disruptive technology but by the fact that Chinese companies are subsidised by their government to disrupt the competition by selling below cost and take over other markets. UE companies are not partnering with Chinese ones because they're smart but because they've been forced to do so by Chinese law - only companies with at least 50% of shares owned by the Chinese are allowed to sell cars in China.
It has everything to do with a disruptive technology, both batteries and software, just look at the amounts VW are spending to try and resolve the issue. Please can you name the car company that hasn’t received any subsidies….
While China being able to drive down costs faster might have hurt some European solar manufacturers who couldn't compete, it also drove down prices to be a fraction of what they were and a fraction what we pay in the US. It made solar the least expensive way to generate electricity in Europe. That has led to much faster adoption of renewable energy in Europe at a lower cost than in the US. Stopping lower-cost EV's will have a similar effect in slowing EV adoption and extending reliance on fossil fuels.
@@aesma2522 Mexico does not have the IP, automated manufacturing or decades of investment into infrastructure and supply chain to make the panels. Labor costs are a small fraction of the overall panel cost now. If a Chinese company were to set up shop there, it would still get hit with sanctions (as they were in Southeast Asia). However, there is a lot of sunny, barren land there that could import energy into the US (potentially even using Chinese panels to do it), if we would allow that. Remember that by using the lower-cost panels, they become less than half of the system cost. If I were giving charity away, I think Mexico could use it more. But there are better ways to promote economic development than to force consumers to use uncompetitive products that are significantly more expensive.
has nothing to do with price, more to do national security issue. present days chinese government r a bag of dicks. can u all in renewable structure all dependent on chinese supply chain? if covid and ukrain war taught us anything, u wouldn't get mask or gas if they chinese or russian decide to fuck u over. rather u like it or not, alternative supply chain will be made, chinese r not trust worthy trading partner. force tech transfer for market r a thing of the past.
@@larryevans6739 I totally agree with you on IP, infrastructure, etc. However, if a Chinese company sets up shop in Mexico, they qualify for the USMCA and avoid tariffs.
I had seen a video once on Swiss watchmaking industry where in the 70s they used to have accuracy contests. Then Seiko came and blew away everyone with quartz. So they first banned quartz and then stopped the contest for some years. We are seeing something similar now. The tendency of EU not to accept defeat but to resort to unethical ways to protect products that cannot compete. In India German cars just don't excite anymore. Where I live 2 guys bought cars, one a VW and another a Kia and Kia is way ahead in all aspects. Build quality design interiors, features. Not to mention Kia is cheaper. And VW looks boring. This is the problem with European (and Japanese) cars. They are too badly stuck in old world tech with inflated prices.
A valid point but as I mentioned in my comment above, this is more complicated than that. The EU and parts of the world went too fast to this 'green transitioning'. While yes, we should lower CO2 emissions (the whole EU policy is based on that), the EU cannot be the only one doing it across the board. So now EU is taking multiple steps back and moving goalposts on all fronts.
@@toms5996 Those who have the largest per capita carbon footprint should move the fastest. No one has moved too fast. Climate change is now kicking us in the butt and it's all our fault. We were warned decades back and should have started moving then.
Actually Quartz tech was discovered in Switzerland. But unfortunately the Swiss, then leading the industry, sold the patent to Japan. A historic mistake.
Pls note that 1 Ch*na heavily subsidizes their car industry and copied a lot of tech from Tesla etc 2 Millions of jobs in Europe are at stake. 3 car emissions ( incl trucks etc) make up for only 7% worldwide. So its other industries that cud save the planet never private cars alone 4 why should Europe not protect millions of Jobs from a communist rival who tries to dominate all key industries? Do we want the world to be under the thumb of genocidal dictators who steal our intellectual property to defeat us with our own tech? 5 of course they got better access to rare earth but they run over 1000 coal power plants and plan to add 300 more. So much for saving the planet. ch*nas nazi party is after world dominance not saving the planet
@@peterraddatz2841- Somewhat like the digital camera, actually invented by a Kodak engineer but back then film was making too much money for #1 Kodak so the camera was put on the back burner. Meanwhile Japanese camera makers figured out their own way to make digital cameras, introduced it to the world and it was all over for Kodak.
IYesterday I watched the live stream of the naming of the new Maersk Line “green” Methanol fuelled containership by Ms Von der Lyon, the President of the EU and the ship’s godmother and she spoke at length about this issue during the naming ceremony - totally out of context of a naming ceremony. One problem is that the Chinese companies are building cars that people want and at a price that they can afford whereas the European makers are building ugly expensive cars that few people really want to buy
@@ericxu3860 I wouldn’t know about that as I’m no longer (such a pity too) in the EU so we don’t read/hear about what goes on so much among the member states or in the HQ
What has Tesla done to make the Chinese EVs more expensive in Europe? (You misspelled your post a bit, maybe I didn't understand it therefore. So please explain it).
The US imposes a 27.5% tariff on Chinese cars while China imposes a 25% tariff on US cars imported. China used to impose a 40% tariff on US cars. The EU imposes a 10% tariff on US (and all others) cars while the US imposes a 2.5% tariff on European cars (25% for SUVs/Trucks) - so, its basically a wash.
Under WTO rules, developing countries are allowed to setup tariff barriers to protect their nascent industries. What EU n US r doing now r against WTO rules.
A very substantial percentage of VW's global sales are in China. If commercial barriers go up, it can go very badly for the European brands....stopping competition is not the answer.
I do everything on social networks to explain to Chinese people that only Chinese, South Korean (except for the batteries - sideeye LG) and Tesla BEVs are worth buying and that ICEs, PHEVs and HEVs are losing a lot of value very soon.
I think the idea is you have increasing returns to scale, so it makes sense to reduce competition. The problem is that China is playing a complex game of Chess lasting generations, While the West is playing checkers every election cycle.
12:31 “The fact is Chinese manufacturers are making better cars…”. Never have truer words been spoke. The Chinese car market is highly competitive, those who make it out to the export market have beaten literally more than 100 competitors. They are not $3,000 death traps. Go sit in a BYD and you’d know what we’re dealing with, they are really good cars
The USA and Canada regularly bail out the big 3 US automakers. how is that different. The problem with this is that if EU imposes tariff, then China may impose tariffs and every big car manufacturer will lose that market. Thus this is a very tricky step for the EU to take.
different being US and canada dont export those cars they made at home to outside market, they r just trying to save the workers. so other market can impose 100% tax on their car produce in north america for subsidies, but it wouldn't do anything as north america is a close market they dont give two shit. us and canada dont make a living off selling car. not the case for europe, if they increase tax on chinese car export. chinese will retaliate vice versa, german has 25% of their entire gdp on auto industry and 40-45% of their auto industry revenue comes from china. it will be a shit show if they engage china in a trade war over cars, as the chinese literally buy 40% of the world luxury product most comes from europe.
Legacy companies in Europe, the US, and Asia stayed in denial far too long. Now they are having to scramble to survive and their governments will attempt to help them through to some extent. It's just where things are.
This is great video mate, you are right, China does not need Europe as much as Europe needs China. Your comments are crystal clear, logical and truthful.
China startup provided reusable rocket to Spacex under trade deficit. Tesla, Solar City, Starlink, The Boring Company, Nurolink are all Chinese startup to boost US economy.
Haha! I REALLY would like to see the EU try the 'artifically low' prices argument in a court of law! Even the biased ECJ! The argument is instantly blown apart by the fact that the China EV manufacturers prices are DOUBLE what they are in China!
@@sic22lAnd you are telling me EU memeber did not subside their Ev? EU can put out what ever they want. But it is clear what ever EU do in this case trying to slow down the Ev expension. The ministry of commerce will be more than happy to drag EU ass to WTO for a settlement
The EU doesn't ask anybody anything ever. We negotiate when we must with the US and that's about it. The EU is an economic block with the US and China and with certain industries the only one. This time we do as we please.
So when US Oligarchs ship US jobs overseas, that's perfectly fine... when those cheaper labor costs threaten their own businesses in the guise of cheap imports Government must "protect the capitalists". Who was the one who said Socialism for the Rich, and Capitalism for the rest of us?
China is past "the wild west" phase and is now putting out quality goods. Recently Japan and S. Korea went through the same thing. The Chinese cars are only going to get better. So the product is good. Now we can debate the political aspects of global capitalism. What do you want to accept and what is going to continue the $ going forward. The only power we, the individual, have is what we decide to spend money on.
China startup provided reusable rocket to Spacex under trade deficit. Tesla, Solar City, Starlink, The Boring Company, Nurolink are all Chinese startup to boost US economy.
I can see governments in the US and Europe relaxing regulations on ICE vehicles and cutting subsidies on EV's as the companies that are dependent on ICE vehicles panic.
CHINESE have worked hard on ICE cars too... if you are GEELY and VOLVO is under your ownership, you are going to get every piece of technology in that whole VOLVO lineup... CHINESE are the largest investors in MERCEDES Group as well... things have changed so fast.
I think their biggest fear is not that made-in-China cars (including Teslas) will dominate, but that their companies will relocate manufacturing to China in order to compete.
The real deal is that when it's all said and done, China will produce everything at better value than any other country/region due to their economies of scale from that massive market, as well as China having easy access to all the necessary raw materials. Key features allowing them to do this are their very well developed logistics and supply chain.
@@cocoday6215 Because Germany's economy locomotive is the car industry. German car industry was enjoying high profit margins and could pay good salaries. Today Germany is no longer special - China can make equally good cars at the fraction of the cost, so Germany must adjust to stay in business - lower cost by lowering salaries etc. This is very sad for the Germans, considering they have to keep 30million people in Ukraine on life support.
@@cocoday6215becoz they won't be anywhere near affordable out of China😢 tariffs everywhere, poor countries unwilling to sanction China won't be able to pull enough infrastructure on charging
EU currently struggle in high inflation, mortgage rates, and high electric fees. cheap product will cold down the inflation. what I can read from von der Leyen here is, she want people spend more and stay poor?
well, due to high energy cost. germany squessed their manufacturing capacity, then move to china, Ex BASF. you can called it side effects. but the whole ecnomy everiment is totally change after ukriane war. will more people losing their jobs in EU. instead replace as the Robot 24x7 massive manufactring in china. it's happening right now.
Try and see the bigger picture. This is just one of the steps to make Europe more robust and less dependent on China. If this works out well it will great for Europe long term. Us being dependent on Russia for cheap Gas has shown us what dealing with a potential enemy can do to you.
@@Astke I'm for TOTAL decoupling... China to BAN all western products, Tesla, Apple, etc, and THE WEST to ban all communist stuff... and let the free market right wing capitalism work out who win the global south market.
BYD Atto 3, prices starting from 44250e. Maxus Euniq 5 Grand Wagon 54560e. So far only MG has a little bit more reasonable prices but then there are human 'rights' and stuff...
What is important is getting affordable electric vehicles into the hands of everyone. Not just the rich. This is about cleaning up the environment, not greed.
Internet globalizes... -what worked yesterday, do not neccesarily works today. Why pay €50.000 for a car priced at €20.000 in China?... the difference is beyond reasonable. Maybe if the car in every single part became 2.5 times better. Stainless steel instead of recycled scrap metal, ceramic brakes, gold-plated electrical connectors etc etc etc.... People in EU now know than a Volkswagen ID.3 is at €15.000 (...and ain't worth any more), so why pay €40.000.- The huge difference makes no sense, no sense at all.
Volkswagen ID3 is priced at US$15,000 in China. The price of id4 in China is US$20,000, which is far lower than the price in Europe. In fact, the Chinese government should investigate European car companies for dumping at low prices in the Chinese market. 😆
If the EU imposes tarrifs the EU ins transfering wealth from its citizens to its domestic automakers. Make everyone poorer to prop up the big auto companies that can't compete. If the intent is give companies like BMW time to recover and become competitive, this might make sense. But one of the reasons they're not competitive is high energy costs, which may be permanent with the bombing of Nord Stream. The other part of the story is that Europe had a huge chunk of the Chinese car market and that will be lost in a few years, again permanently. And if the EU imposes huge tarriffs on Tesla, Mercedes, VW etc importing their cars from China they are hurting their own companies.
The other option is to make Chinese carmakers build factories in the EU, like the US did with Japanese automakers in the 1980's. That way, you get the best technology and best cars at the cheapest prices, while preserving jobs and wages in your own country.
Good idea. But it's totally diffirent story. Jp kr is a dog with a neckchain in they master's hand in every aspects same as EU UK their are neolibrilism digital slave. China is their totally own master of sovereignty in every aspects. from low-tech to hi-tech from food to energy , raw material to DJI Huawei satiliter phone,,, ,social media apps to payment system everything including nuke and war machine,,,,,, . Chinese cheap prices = hi-edu ppl + hi-efficiancy w mass production.
3:29 there is a difference between subsidies or tax breaks to create jobs, or to save an ailing company to save jobs (and not in the startup phase of an industry when there is a shakeout, which is to be expected), and dumping - or subsidies that encourage dumping. There are laws on the national and international levels, that have provisions for dumping practices. We've seen it in semi-conductors in the nineties I believe, and in other industries as well. Such practices amount to war on another country by economic means. There's a huge difference, and you need to educate yourself on that.
This is true. However, because the EU and US never considered China as a true market economy. This means that ender WTO rules, US and Eu don't have to base the price of imported goods in their market on the price of the same goods on the home market (in this case China)
Besides the EU car-makers are on their way to kill their own car market... they dont want to sell "cheap" cars, and since about 1-2 years the budget cars are gone, and the cars still left has got a 50-100% inflation in prices within the same time period... This strategy meets the inflation with higher interests, exepensive food etc making people having even less money to put into a car, and if they still have the money, why invest in a not-priceworthy car when other things are more attractive?
Chinese manufacturers are not selling cheap cars for charity, they're being subsidised by the Chinese government in order to take over and control the market.
I think here in Belgium to overly big majority of those 50.000 € and more European cars, are sold to companies as extra legal benefit for their higher ranked employees. Meanwhile, those same car brands agressively promote their hybrid cars: ‘a hybrid for the price of a petrol car.’ Even one saying their hybrid is cheaper to run than an electric. Should be illegal! Hybrids, bio fuels, hydrogen , … all holy grailed by big oil an big automobile to keep their production high and their profits even higher. But China is to blame. I’ve learned by now: when they point in one direction, look the oposit way and whose finger it is.
Look at the years of losses Tesla endured before they reached high enough scale to become profitable with EVs. Legacy is going to have to follow the same path of accepting losses. But the path will be easier for them. Batteries are massively cheaper now and EV component supply companies are up and running.
The problem is that the CEO can see the writing on the wall and will move manufacturing to the low cost producer. Then tyhey will keep his pay at the same rate or higher. Unless you provide an incentive to keep manufacture in Europe this is what going to happen.
Malaysia have done the same thing against foreign imported cars with extremely high tariff and ban to protect local car market maker Proton. It failed badly after it was forced to open its car market to the world. U til it was partly taken over by Geely for the latter technology and skills in making better cars. It is still not doing that todate. The better selling cars are made by Geely China but under Proton badge.
NIO ET7 costs 61,000 euros in China, in Germany it costs 70,000 euros. European officials say "Why so cheap?" Raise it to BMW level. Am I the only one who thinks something is wrong here?
I don’t get it. If BYD or any Chinese manufacturer wants to sell you cars at an affordable price cas Chinese govt is giving them some incentives. Whats the harm? In the end we consumers benefit from cheaper Evs.
In Europe, in the Netherlands, all Chinese brands are major sales flop...except Mg and Lynck&co, Volvo (also considered a Chinese brand). Byd, Nio, etc etc no sales at all despite hugh marketing efforts.....no suc6 at all. Only Tesla sells extremly well and only model Y.
@@peijinli3628 I want to buy one in Europe!!! I tried to buy a U8 on the Shanghai Motor show. They said they don't deliver to Europe yet! Me sad!! Very sad!!
It’s a good thing that China is expanding into the EU. EU have protected the German car market for to long. The German car makers need to step up their game to stay alive, not implement taxes and regulations. And Chinese cars aren’t that cheap either😆 They sell for the same price in Sweden as most German cars do. And to be honest the German cars aren’t that good anymore.
China startup provided reusable rocket to Spacex under trade deficit. Tesla, Solar City, Starlink, The Boring Company, Nurolink are all Chinese startup to boost US economy.
European here. Time for change & fairness. So much anti china bias, when EU is doing same shit its accusing china of.. same goes with us ofc. Cheering on the chinese cos they've honestly earned it (this time)
The French automakers as pushing EU to investigate Chinese EV's, as they want to get a better share of the sales to China who imports predominantly German cars. "Your friend is not really a friend."
No. It's actually that the european ev cars are ridiculously expensive. China is the biggest power battery manufacturer. It is able to make the price low. To be honest, many of us are shocked by the high price of Chinese ev cars in EU. And it more shocking that EU still thinks that they are too cheap.
Whether it Geeley, Chery, GAC, Changan or BYD, they’re all crap. Geeley can take 4 months just to have service done or even get parts. Complaints are running through the roof in our country. Limited car inventory and usually here today gone tomorrow. No consistency. Stay away.
German auto companies should JV with Chinese EV companies to survive. German manufacturers anyway is screwed with high energy cost without cheap Russian gas.
Its because all you had to do was put a generator on one axle to keep the car charging itself and get unlimited mileage that would save the planet not burning coal to keep the car going it makes no sense
Germany might want to think about any tariffs on Chinese cars. Losing the Chinese market would cause massive losses for VW, Mercedes and BMW. The Chinese govnemnt won't take away any factories, but they could make things difficult. They could simply put tariffs on imported cars, but the EVs are almost all made in China anyway, or place tariffs on European brands -- the small number of 'German' EVs which are sold in China would be become zero......
Sit back and relax, the EU Commission in Bruxelles will pose substantial tariffs on Chinese cars. The Chinese Market is highly regulated for foreign companies in so many ways. In China foreign automakers can’t own the majority stake in a joint venture, all has to be with an angle favorable for the chinese. The EU will do the same versus Chinese automakers.
Back long ago there came to be no USofA government, it being swapped out with it being the majorest of CORPORATION. The "GIANTS" of industries have all been, and all are now, subsidized through the CORPORATION of the USofA.
If you can't compete with them, join them .. Europe car makers has to look beyond Europe. Leveraging on China's logistics and network.. they can ride into emerging and developing markets in BRICS nation.
Europeans companies just need to make a good affordable eletric car like Volvo just did. It's not that difficult. (I know Volvo is mostly chinese owned at this point)
The China EV’s are too competitive now to be expensive. Since US and EU are selling a lot of autos in China, high import tariffs only invites retaliation from China. US and EU become more protective means becoming less competitive, gradually losing market in other parts of the world.
The Swedish government said no to subsidizing Volvo and Saab. that is one of the reasons they are Chinese owned today. and saab passenger cars are dead..
It would be much more productive to take the Chinese play book and start to build joint venture for battery, chips, sensor etc. In exchange for market.
China's labor cost is at least 7 times lower while their productivity is at least 2 times higher, so it's not difficult to figure out why their cars were cheaper.
How many years have European automakers sold cars in China? Japanese cars are sold in Europe. China is just doing what everyone else already has. China is doing everyone a favor by showing automakers what they should be making just like Tesla tried to.
Put as much as duty as they want, ultimately it’s just protectionism and artificially increases the cost base of life within the EU or any other jurisdiction with such tariff in place. At the same time, it does not alter the commercial competitiveness of its societies. It’s just not sustainable but will just continue to price the EU out of the global market. Once upon a time EU cars had the technology edge to justify the margin, not any more in the BEV world. The key question is whether EU/govt is willing to fix the root cause of their lack of competitiveness and cost base.
When you cannot compete, the best option is to peddle fake news, slander and impose tariff.
Didn't out work well for Spain and Portugal, who went from global economic superpowers to become some of the poorest countries in western Europe, still widely using horses for transportation in the 1950's. Meanwhile, more industrialized countries charged ahead.
@@larryevans6739 What are you smoking? Spain and Portugal have not been global economic superpowers since the end of the Napoleonic War. They didnt partake in the Industrial Revolution of the 1850's and have been insignificant ever since.
@@csjrogerson2377 I never said they were recently economic superpowers. They failed to evolve and stay competitive, then put in protectionist policies that ended up making it worse. Nothing you said contradicts that. Don't be a jerk.
EU standards of living will fall one way or another if they have to complete with China, EU can't afford costly labour.
@@larryevans6739Spain and Portugal were never economic powers. Their wealth came from massive plunder and loot of Americas. The loot was so huge that these countries faced massive inflation for centuries.
The loot was never invested to create a real economic base. And when the colonies became independent, both of these countries started to become poorer again.
These two countries have been irrelevant for two centuries now. And would continue to remain so for centuries to come.
Thats a lie... Chinese EV-prices in Sweden are "artificially HIGH", not low... The Usd 16.000 ORA Cat is sold here for +€40.000, the Usd 20.000 BYD Atto 3 for €45.000...
You forgot to mention that this lie is being paid by European oil and the ICE industry. Europe is pathetic. Japan is pathetic. The USA at least has Tesla.
That's because they need to meet EU safety requirements, establish a dealer network, offer 2 year warranty and actually pay for those repairs.
@@sic22lhave you checked the difference between warentee policy between EU and their domestic market. And same car roll off from the same production line with identical look but different structure, have you think of the Supplychain nightmare it stem from?
@@林振华-t4v This is a good point. BYD doesn't really know their EU warrantee costs. This is another reason it might be smart of them to overprice for EU a bit in the beginning.
Today, artificially high… Tomorrow, market price then below when they have excess inventory
VW is selling ID3 in China for half of the price in EU, so that fits the definition of dumping very well
Yeah, but you can argue Chinese EV is low due to subsidizing. In order to compete, VW has to do this. It's the source and structure of this pricing, not the pricing itself.
@@benwlee so whenever we can’t compete, we resort to this tactic. We will say we lost the solar panel battle because of their subsidies. We never look at our cost structure and see where we can improve. Back in 2010, I was really curious how the Chinese can make lighters so cheap, wholesale price is like 15 cents, yet it has 32 parts. They all say it’s government subsidies. I was not convinced, who in their right minds would subsidize lighter manufacturing? I went to Yiwu to find out. It turned out they had perfected the process and they were still making reasonable money. They had a truck that drove through the village, where they threw out the materials to the part makers, and the people who were making the parts threw onto the truck the finished parts. So they were making the components in the villager’s home, basically no overhead. They were making these parts in their spare time just to make some extra money.
Also look at how they built their high speed rails, buildings, it’s not something you can explain with subsides.
I lived there for about 10 years from 2000 to 2010. I witnessed how a 27 story building was built in a month: day 1, bulldozers demolished the old houses and everything cleared, day 2,3: a big hole was dug, day 4: some strange machinery hammering down many concrete columns in the hole, day 5: underground floor complete, day 6: nothing was happening, from day 7: every day, 2 stories built, constant shipment of steel bars and concrete, before I could finish counting, roof was there with a strange antenna. Then the whole building was wrapped in green fabric top down, I couldn’t see anything anymore. Fast forward to day 26, green fabric wrap was took down, a 27 story building was standing there, windows and granite panels decorated, the next couple of days, sites cleared, heck, huge trees were shipped in and planted, with bags of water and tubing hanging on the trees, shockingly they were treating the trees with infusion! I don’t think any subsidy can do this.
It’s time for us to admit that they are doing it better and learn from them. They didn’t shy away learning from us, why is it so hard for us to learn from them?
After all, they have a population base of 1.4 Billion, if there’s one smart genius in 10000 people, they have more than 140,000 genius minds. Do the same math and count how many you have? Maybe that will make you humble?
@@manimalworks7424 Yes, I come from a country that started the green screen thingy and the way how a skyscraper is put together quickly. And you know what, for a lot of things that went up quickly, there's a lot of things buried and counted as cost of doing business. I am not saying one way is necessarily better than the other, but simply stating that you won't know details until you look into it. As far as argument goes, we know how Cobalt is mined for example. Now I don't disagree that legacy automakers are dragging their feet on their collective jobs. But that alone is simply one facet of the whole matter and should be assigned precisely.
Now, comes to your lighter example. I am sure there are certain governmental involvement to make sure it sets up a noncompeting infrastructure for lighter manufacturing. It is a necessity for them to squeeze the last ounce of everything so to meet the demand of the buyers. Democracy/free market always proves it is messy and not efficient. But I thought we established this a long time ago that it is by design, the purpose is to create competitions and so whatever we are dealing can revolve/evolve. Once you created the 'best' machinery, you tend to fixated on it and will stop right there. It's simply a manifestation of different stages of an industry.
As much as I would hold in awe of Chinese scientific advancements, I tend to think that is not how we, as human beings like to live our lives! You know, been told to 'where to go next'. At least for myself, I like to goof around and hope to trip on something interesting in the process. This is, by definition, not efficient.
I think this west vs China boils down to how you like to live your lives. Because you should know, if Chinese CCP gets the chance to order you to do their marching, its going to be merciless. You do understand the difference between been a Chinese vis-a-vis Chinese CCP, right? The cost of sustaining into future should also be considered.
@@benwlee True, then in turn, one can argue VW is being subsidized by the German government because it's selling at a low price. 😀And in order to compete, Chinese EV brands were forced to lower price as well. So the culprit is definitely the German government.
@@benwlee In fact, the subsidy is given to all EV makers in China. It comes in 3 forms: 1. government installed millions of charging stations and written down requirements that all new developments: residential or commercial, have to provide certain amount of charging station per project size. Every rest area of expressway installed charging station. 2. 10% of the sale tax is waived for EVs (any EV, doesn't matter which brand or where it's made) 3. Tag special treatment, in big cities, especially Shanghai and Beijing, tags for ICE cars are limited, there's a lottery system. For EVs, no tag limit. Well, that's why Tesla is selling so well in China. You're incentivized to buy one.
Based on these information, I can confidently say there's no subsidy to EV makers. There're only incentives for EV consumers. Do you get tax credit in your country when you buy an EV? Is the credit given to all EVs.? In America, we only gave tax credit to Tesla and the big 3. As for German or SK made EVs, no credit. and Chinese EVs? Forget it, banned.
The EU has mandated(because of carbon emissions) that by 2035 all new vehicles sold there will be EV's.
The Chinese have started producing and selling EV's to the EU market relativity cheap(much cheaper than the EU manufacturers can.
Now the EU wants to put tariffs on these planet saving vehicles.
I guess that means that the carbon thing is only a problem if the EU can produce EV's to help solve it.
It's like carbon credits, it's ok to pollute as long as you pay a tax.
So, we are now wondering if all these carbon emission and climate change things are just made-up lies by the Western politicians and businessmen who want to make profits on this issue.
Remeber these "cheap" ev's are being built using cheap coal fired energy.
@@thamesmudand cheap gas Germany ditched thus being not competitive anymore.
@@thamesmud- Hard to say how much renewable electricity in China is used to make EVs as 56% of electricity is from fossil fuels as of a year ago. China is trying to get away from coal but there are economic and environmental issues.
@@thamesmud gGo find out which country is the world's number one producer of renewable energy.
That’s total double standard, hypocrisy and protectionism. Period.
My impression - Chinese EVS are priced artificially HIGH in Europe. Many are nearly double the price in China.
I'm from Malaysia, and for decades our national car company was protected from competition with tariffs. Today its owned by Geely
So your country protected it from western trash that would have bought and then devoured your car company. Ask German companies like Linde, Kuka, etc. how "bad" they feel being owned by Chinese companies. Ask companies like Volvo...
The same outcome came about in Australia during the 2010s.
Economics is a function of social science. The laws of science will always prevail. Australian nostalgia and jingoism be damned.
ruclips.net/video/SAhBpCLsA2I/видео.html
don't lie...you are a chinenese
@@근육돌이밥이 Well I'm Malaysian who's ethnically Chinese. Malaysia's population is about 20% Chinese. Geely now owns 49.9% of Proton, and the latest 3 models sold were all rebadged Geelys
@@근육돌이밥이Go research on the Malaysia population by race ratio, since independence from Britain in 1957, 3 major races came together to opt for independence and build this nation. The national car was created in 1985 and a local policy were made to those with political connections and made only a handful rich out of the taxpayer who could buy better quality cars. Sadly the protection policy only made the national car uncompetitive to compete globally against global car brands - economic of scale to produce and development cost spiral , the national car lost billions and sadly taxpayers were burdened to pay and spoon feed a titanic. The government did the right thing to offload a loss making business and Geeley purchased a major share offering technology and retraining of people , launching new models that fits the current market demand from consumers. It’s now making money with local acceptance of the Chinese brand. So before you write and mouth off any Chinese with your inheritance racist education from your government, the Chinese save a lot of locals jobs losses. Go and look at Volvo today with Geeley behind them and Saab under GM, GM wouldn’t sell that loss making brand to any Chinese company and close it down, what happened to all those workers who lost a job globally because of arrogance
Low car prices are a good thing for consumers. Besides, I think price war are necessary, some car companies are too arrogant.
hahaaa EU knows very well that it will affect their economies if the chinese cars are flooding. DISASTER for EU economies. Dont think of low prices but POLITICS.
I basically agree, but governments are under pressure to keep their national industries operating in order to protect jobs and their economy. These things are complex.
@@bobwallace9753 for each own market, no problems, of course.
not arrogant, LAZY is the word! @77lynx8
LIberals are always against free markets.
Same damn panic when Japanese cars started to dominate. However, that was on same technology, so high end European manufacturers simply improved their products. This time, it is a disruptive technology, and Europe is caught with pants down. Smart EU companies are partnering with chinese companied. The chinese do the tech and the europeans do the luxury. Put them together and you have a luxurious, high tech offering. Of course, the politicians think diffrently. Anyway, mark my words on this.
Smart companies actually decouple from China because it is an authoritarian, greedy, soon to be warmongering state that could at any point in near future be our enemy like Russia :)
It has mothing to do with any disruptive technology but by the fact that Chinese companies are subsidised by their government to disrupt the competition by selling below cost and take over other markets.
UE companies are not partnering with Chinese ones because they're smart but because they've been forced to do so by Chinese law - only companies with at least 50% of shares owned by the Chinese are allowed to sell cars in China.
@@sic22lthat’s not correct Tesla builds cars in China and doesn’t have any partnership.
It has everything to do with a disruptive technology, both batteries and software, just look at the amounts VW are spending to try and resolve the issue. Please can you name the car company that hasn’t received any subsidies….
@@sic22lChina stopped their subsidiaries already and while they gave their subsidiaries, they didn't discriminated any foreign EVs at all
While China being able to drive down costs faster might have hurt some European solar manufacturers who couldn't compete, it also drove down prices to be a fraction of what they were and a fraction what we pay in the US. It made solar the least expensive way to generate electricity in Europe. That has led to much faster adoption of renewable energy in Europe at a lower cost than in the US. Stopping lower-cost EV's will have a similar effect in slowing EV adoption and extending reliance on fossil fuels.
Sure but now these panels could probably be made for the same price in Mexico. Wouldn't you rather help Mexico develop instead of China ?
@@aesma2522 Mexico does not have the IP, automated manufacturing or decades of investment into infrastructure and supply chain to make the panels. Labor costs are a small fraction of the overall panel cost now. If a Chinese company were to set up shop there, it would still get hit with sanctions (as they were in Southeast Asia). However, there is a lot of sunny, barren land there that could import energy into the US (potentially even using Chinese panels to do it), if we would allow that. Remember that by using the lower-cost panels, they become less than half of the system cost.
If I were giving charity away, I think Mexico could use it more. But there are better ways to promote economic development than to force consumers to use uncompetitive products that are significantly more expensive.
It's a choice between losing to China or losing to Russia.
has nothing to do with price, more to do national security issue. present days chinese government r a bag of dicks. can u all in renewable structure all dependent on chinese supply chain? if covid and ukrain war taught us anything, u wouldn't get mask or gas if they chinese or russian decide to fuck u over. rather u like it or not, alternative supply chain will be made, chinese r not trust worthy trading partner. force tech transfer for market r a thing of the past.
@@larryevans6739 I totally agree with you on IP, infrastructure, etc. However, if a Chinese company sets up shop in Mexico, they qualify for the USMCA and avoid tariffs.
I had seen a video once on Swiss watchmaking industry where in the 70s they used to have accuracy contests. Then Seiko came and blew away everyone with quartz. So they first banned quartz and then stopped the contest for some years. We are seeing something similar now. The tendency of EU not to accept defeat but to resort to unethical ways to protect products that cannot compete. In India German cars just don't excite anymore. Where I live 2 guys bought cars, one a VW and another a Kia and Kia is way ahead in all aspects. Build quality design interiors, features. Not to mention Kia is cheaper. And VW looks boring. This is the problem with European (and Japanese) cars. They are too badly stuck in old world tech with inflated prices.
A valid point but as I mentioned in my comment above, this is more complicated than that. The EU and parts of the world went too fast to this 'green transitioning'. While yes, we should lower CO2 emissions (the whole EU policy is based on that), the EU cannot be the only one doing it across the board. So now EU is taking multiple steps back and moving goalposts on all fronts.
@@toms5996
Those who have the largest per capita carbon footprint should move the fastest.
No one has moved too fast. Climate change is now kicking us in the butt and it's all our fault. We were warned decades back and should have started moving then.
Actually Quartz tech was discovered in Switzerland. But unfortunately the Swiss, then leading the industry, sold the patent to Japan. A historic mistake.
Pls note that
1 Ch*na heavily subsidizes their car industry and copied a lot of tech from Tesla etc
2 Millions of jobs in Europe are at stake.
3 car emissions ( incl trucks etc) make up for only 7% worldwide. So its other industries that cud save the planet never private cars alone
4 why should Europe not protect millions of Jobs from a communist rival who tries to dominate all key industries? Do we want the world to be under the thumb of genocidal dictators who steal our intellectual property to defeat us with our own tech?
5 of course they got better access to rare earth but they run over 1000 coal power plants and plan to add 300 more. So much for saving the planet. ch*nas nazi party is after world dominance not saving the planet
@@peterraddatz2841- Somewhat like the digital camera, actually invented by a Kodak engineer but back then film was making too much money for #1 Kodak so the camera was put on the back burner. Meanwhile Japanese camera makers figured out their own way to make digital cameras, introduced it to the world and it was all over for Kodak.
IYesterday I watched the live stream of the naming of the new Maersk Line “green” Methanol fuelled containership by Ms Von der Lyon, the President of the EU and the ship’s godmother and she spoke at length about this issue during the naming ceremony - totally out of context of a naming ceremony. One problem is that the Chinese companies are building cars that people want and at a price that they can afford whereas the European makers are building ugly expensive cars that few people really want to buy
she is working for the interest of Americans, not Europeans....
@@ericxu3860 I wouldn’t know about that as I’m no longer (such a pity too) in the EU so we don’t read/hear about what goes on so much among the member states or in the HQ
Von der Lyon 😆
I see this coming from the beginning. This is one of the reasons why Chinese EVs prices much higher than people think they could have .
Good eye
What has Tesla done to make the Chinese EVs more expensive in Europe?
(You misspelled your post a bit, maybe I didn't understand it therefore. So please explain it).
@@richard--swhat Tesla. Did the original post even mention Tesla in his post?
@@eggheadegghead a person responded with Tesla as a reason, therefore I asked.
He has deleted his comment obviously.
Would love to get the Chinese pricing here in Australia. These politicians can't do basic maths.
That’d be my wish too😂
You guys get torn up on everything price wise. But you also keep voting for the same party.
Of course they know math. But lazy people who don’t will listen to their lies
They can look at honest ads. 😂
@@marczhu7473 i am sure German ads are honest. I am sure their diesel engines did not violate emission law.
The US imposes a 27.5% tariff on Chinese cars while China imposes a 25% tariff on US cars imported. China used to impose a 40% tariff on US cars. The EU imposes a 10% tariff on US (and all others) cars while the US imposes a 2.5% tariff on European cars (25% for SUVs/Trucks) - so, its basically a wash.
The first guy who knows what he’s talking about
And Europe want to add the same approx… sounds good.
Under WTO rules, developing countries are allowed to setup tariff barriers to protect their nascent industries. What EU n US r doing now r against WTO rules.
Good to know. I wasn't aware of the numbers.
Appreciate ur comment
A very substantial percentage of VW's global sales are in China. If commercial barriers go up, it can go very badly for the European brands....stopping competition is not the answer.
I do everything on social networks to explain to Chinese people that only Chinese, South Korean (except for the batteries - sideeye LG) and Tesla BEVs are worth buying and that ICEs, PHEVs and HEVs are losing a lot of value very soon.
Subsidising companies to allow them selling cars below cost in order to take over the market isn't exactly a competition either.
I agree, but barriers to trade can go very wrong.
I think the idea is you have increasing returns to scale, so it makes sense to reduce competition.
The problem is that China is playing a complex game of Chess lasting generations, While the West is playing checkers every election cycle.
China is actually the biggest market for European car companies. If China retaliates, it will hurt European car makers more than it will help them.
12:31 “The fact is Chinese manufacturers are making better cars…”. Never have truer words been spoke. The Chinese car market is highly competitive, those who make it out to the export market have beaten literally more than 100 competitors.
They are not $3,000 death traps. Go sit in a BYD and you’d know what we’re dealing with, they are really good cars
Better than whut ??? In ur opinion . Th best is NOT A CHINESE BRAND
👍totally agree
You don’t know how these will hold up. Many short cuts, to save on cost is standard procedure for Chinese products.
Can you back it up with crash test results that will pass the US standards.
Backup your claims - where are the crash test?
The USA and Canada regularly bail out the big 3 US automakers. how is that different. The problem with this is that if EU imposes tariff, then China may impose tariffs and every big car manufacturer will lose that market. Thus this is a very tricky step for the EU to take.
different being US and canada dont export those cars they made at home to outside market, they r just trying to save the workers. so other market can impose 100% tax on their car produce in north america for subsidies, but it wouldn't do anything as north america is a close market they dont give two shit. us and canada dont make a living off selling car. not the case for europe, if they increase tax on chinese car export. chinese will retaliate vice versa, german has 25% of their entire gdp on auto industry and 40-45% of their auto industry revenue comes from china. it will be a shit show if they engage china in a trade war over cars, as the chinese literally buy 40% of the world luxury product most comes from europe.
The EU wouldn't be the EU without protectionism 😂
Compared to the US, us in the EU are very open.
Merika wouldn't be Merika without protectionism either.
Ironic, isn't it, the communist country being more open to foreign companies than self styled capitalist free market economies.
Protectionism through tariffs is socialism and proves you're not good enough to compete against the best.
sometimes you have to protect what matters the most to you.
here, i agree with EU.
europe needs to pull their collective heads out and just build decent cars at decent prices.
Legacy companies in Europe, the US, and Asia stayed in denial far too long. Now they are having to scramble to survive and their governments will attempt to help them through to some extent. It's just where things are.
even CHINESE ice cars are better built today... CHINESE are building good gas engines with low Co2 emissions. @@bobwallace9753
Labor cost, regulation, political stability, logistic cost, energy cost...
Simple math
This is great video mate, you are right, China does not need Europe as much as Europe needs China. Your comments are crystal clear, logical and truthful.
China startup provided reusable rocket to Spacex under trade deficit. Tesla, Solar City, Starlink, The Boring Company, Nurolink are all Chinese startup to boost US economy.
Haha! I REALLY would like to see the EU try the 'artifically low' prices argument in a court of law! Even the biased ECJ!
The argument is instantly blown apart by the fact that the China EV manufacturers prices are DOUBLE what they are in China!
It's not. If they're subsidised they are artificially low even if they're higher than in China.
@@sic22lAnd you are telling me EU memeber did not subside their Ev? EU can put out what ever they want. But it is clear what ever EU do in this case trying to slow down the Ev expension. The ministry of commerce will be more than happy to drag EU ass to WTO for a settlement
but europe would have to pretend they arent subsidizing their own cars.@@sic22l
The EU doesn't ask anybody anything ever. We negotiate when we must with the US and that's about it. The EU is an economic block with the US and China and with certain industries the only one. This time we do as we please.
@@sic22l China have lower EV subsidies than the EU...
Every accusation is a confession.
🎯
Especially with Trump
It's also a projection.
Yup, Trump and the GOP teabaggers
@@ConstanceCoxtrump still lives rent free up there?
So when US Oligarchs ship US jobs overseas, that's perfectly fine... when those cheaper labor costs threaten their own businesses in the guise of cheap imports Government must "protect the capitalists".
Who was the one who said Socialism for the Rich, and Capitalism for the rest of us?
China is past "the wild west" phase and is now putting out quality goods. Recently Japan and S. Korea went through the same thing. The Chinese cars are only going to get better. So the product is good. Now we can debate the political aspects of global capitalism. What do you want to accept and what is going to continue the $ going forward. The only power we, the individual, have is what we decide to spend money on.
I have always admire people who have the courage to speak the truth, which you've in spades, mate. Best wishes for your wife's health battle.
China startup provided reusable rocket to Spacex under trade deficit. Tesla, Solar City, Starlink, The Boring Company, Nurolink are all Chinese startup to boost US economy.
I can see governments in the US and Europe relaxing regulations on ICE vehicles and cutting subsidies on EV's as the companies that are dependent on ICE vehicles panic.
CHINESE have worked hard on ICE cars too... if you are GEELY and VOLVO is under your ownership, you are going to get every piece of technology in that whole VOLVO lineup... CHINESE are the largest investors in MERCEDES Group as well...
things have changed so fast.
I think their biggest fear is not that made-in-China cars (including Teslas) will dominate, but that their companies will relocate manufacturing to China in order to compete.
BMW already did
they do not actually care, otherwise they would have addressed their energy shortage and high price long ago
Well the tariffs on both sides would make this inevitable
Alot of companies are leaving China, so not sure how many would move there under the current economic climate.
@@AntonyBall-hm4jo Can you name one of those companies that have left?
The real deal is that when it's all said and done, China will produce everything at better value than any other country/region due to their economies of scale from that massive market, as well as China having easy access to all the necessary raw materials. Key features allowing them to do this are their very well developed logistics and supply chain.
@@cocoday6215 Because Germany's economy locomotive is the car industry. German car industry was enjoying high profit margins and could pay good salaries. Today Germany is no longer special - China can make equally good cars at the fraction of the cost, so Germany must adjust to stay in business - lower cost by lowering salaries etc. This is very sad for the Germans, considering they have to keep 30million people in Ukraine on life support.
@@cocoday6215becoz they won't be anywhere near affordable out of China😢 tariffs everywhere, poor countries unwilling to sanction China won't be able to pull enough infrastructure on charging
EU currently struggle in high inflation, mortgage rates, and high electric fees. cheap product will cold down the inflation.
what I can read from von der Leyen here is, she want people spend more and stay poor?
Inflation true, but remove all your manufacturing jobs and see what happens to your economy
well, due to high energy cost. germany squessed their manufacturing capacity, then move to china, Ex BASF. you can called it side effects. but the whole ecnomy everiment is totally change after ukriane war. will more people losing their jobs in EU. instead replace as the Robot 24x7 massive manufactring in china. it's happening right now.
Try and see the bigger picture. This is just one of the steps to make Europe more robust and less dependent on China. If this works out well it will great for Europe long term. Us being dependent on Russia for cheap Gas has shown us what dealing with a potential enemy can do to you.
Apparently, you don't live in Europe...you haven't got a clue about what is going on there.
@@Astke I'm for TOTAL decoupling... China to BAN all western products, Tesla, Apple, etc, and THE WEST to ban all communist stuff... and let the free market right wing capitalism work out who win the global south market.
BYD Atto 3, prices starting from 44250e. Maxus Euniq 5 Grand Wagon 54560e. So far only MG has a little bit more reasonable prices but then there are human 'rights' and stuff...
Chinese cars are being sold at a pretty high markup in Europe so I see no problem 😂
Many Europeans won’t buy those Chinese cars.
@@eb7912You don’t speak for most Europeans, troll!
Many European will buy this China EV cars.
A few excellent points made Sam.
Great video Sam.
Europe just needs to Git Gud!!
Nuff said.
Absolutely
Actually is the price of the VW ID3 in China much lower than in Europe. That fits the definition of dumping very well
What is important is getting affordable electric vehicles into the hands of everyone. Not just the rich. This is about cleaning up the environment, not greed.
Internet globalizes... -what worked yesterday, do not neccesarily works today. Why pay €50.000 for a car priced at €20.000 in China?... the difference is beyond reasonable. Maybe if the car in every single part became 2.5 times better. Stainless steel instead of recycled scrap metal, ceramic brakes, gold-plated electrical connectors etc etc etc....
People in EU now know than a Volkswagen ID.3 is at €15.000 (...and ain't worth any more), so why pay €40.000.- The huge difference makes no sense, no sense at all.
Morgan doesn't get a massive subsidy in the UK, I'm not sure if it gets any subsidy.
Weird car of the year in Europe is the Jeep avenger. Tesla is in a bit of bother in Europe as inventory backs up they might have to slow production
Volkswagen ID3 is priced at US$15,000 in China.
The price of id4 in China is US$20,000, which is far lower than the price in Europe.
In fact, the Chinese government should investigate European car companies for dumping at low prices in the Chinese market. 😆
actually chinese EVs are being sold for double prices of the EVs in china, and it s said being "artificially low"...lol
If they're subdidised by the Chinese gvt then yes they're artificially low.
@@sic22ldidn't watch the video do you ? Every car brand gets subsidise from their government.
@@Rex-ww4cw ...it isn't nearly the equivalent of the Chinese model subsidies...
@@puzer1 chinese subsidization had completely ended the end of 2022 btw.
CR Patterson and sons, a black owned car company that made cars from 1893 to 1939.
They never got any subsidies in the U.S.
EU before: "Cheap Russian energy? No, no, no... Europeans must pay more!!"
EU now: "Cheap Chinese EVs? No, no, no... Europeans must pay more!!"
Thanks so much Sam
You are so welcome!
Any tariff in Chinese EV only benefited to US cars (Tesla!!!), definitely NOT european cars industry or buyers....
If the EU imposes tarrifs the EU ins transfering wealth from its citizens to its domestic automakers. Make everyone poorer to prop up the big auto companies that can't compete. If the intent is give companies like BMW time to recover and become competitive, this might make sense. But one of the reasons they're not competitive is high energy costs, which may be permanent with the bombing of Nord Stream. The other part of the story is that Europe had a huge chunk of the Chinese car market and that will be lost in a few years, again permanently. And if the EU imposes huge tarriffs on Tesla, Mercedes, VW etc importing their cars from China they are hurting their own companies.
Telsa isnt a EU compnay ... and more so - they're not hurting the workers in their country - but the ones in China only.
Spot on 👍
If you can't beat them, rig the game.
Great analysis!
It is all about local company protection. Not about how much pollution we produce and how quickly we can save our planet.
Finally the true colours shining through. Aint about climate change its about the money!
China is 1.4 billion consumer market. I don't think you should be fking with that.
Since when is lower priced car a bad thing?
With UK being outside EU, it will be interesting to see how this develops
Cheers Sam
Europe doesnt even have the infrastructure to support evs. What is the point of tariffs? Let the market decide.
The other option is to make Chinese carmakers build factories in the EU, like the US did with Japanese automakers in the 1980's. That way, you get the best technology and best cars at the cheapest prices, while preserving jobs and wages in your own country.
Good idea. But it's totally diffirent story. Jp kr is a dog with a neckchain in they master's hand in every aspects same as EU UK their are neolibrilism digital slave.
China is their totally own master of sovereignty in every aspects. from low-tech to hi-tech from food to energy , raw material to DJI Huawei satiliter phone,,, ,social media apps to payment system everything including nuke and war machine,,,,,, . Chinese cheap prices = hi-edu ppl + hi-efficiancy w mass production.
3:29 there is a difference between subsidies or tax breaks to create jobs, or to save an ailing company to save jobs (and not in the startup phase of an industry when there is a shakeout, which is to be expected), and dumping - or subsidies that encourage dumping. There are laws on the national and international levels, that have provisions for dumping practices. We've seen it in semi-conductors in the nineties I believe, and in other industries as well. Such practices amount to war on another country by economic means. There's a huge difference, and you need to educate yourself on that.
This is true. However, because the EU and US never considered China as a true market economy. This means that ender WTO rules, US and Eu don't have to base the price of imported goods in their market on the price of the same goods on the home market (in this case China)
I'm not sure about that, as there _is_ legislation with provisions for dumping.
This is called "checkmate."
Besides the EU car-makers are on their way to kill their own car market... they dont want to sell "cheap" cars, and since about 1-2 years the budget cars are gone, and the cars still left has got a 50-100% inflation in prices within the same time period... This strategy meets the inflation with higher interests, exepensive food etc making people having even less money to put into a car, and if they still have the money, why invest in a not-priceworthy car when other things are more attractive?
Chinese manufacturers are not selling cheap cars for charity, they're being subsidised by the Chinese government in order to take over and control the market.
I think here in Belgium to overly big majority of those 50.000 € and more European cars, are sold to companies as extra legal benefit for their higher ranked employees. Meanwhile, those same car brands agressively promote their hybrid cars: ‘a hybrid for the price of a petrol car.’ Even one saying their hybrid is cheaper to run than an electric. Should be illegal! Hybrids, bio fuels, hydrogen , … all holy grailed by big oil an big automobile to keep their production high and their profits even higher. But China is to blame. I’ve learned by now: when they point in one direction, look the oposit way and whose finger it is.
VW ID. 4 sold for NZ$33k in China but sellingNZ$79.9k in NZ... Is VW dumping in China?
☝️😏,, tell the CEO to take a pay cut, and start increasing volume at lower prices 🤣
Look at the years of losses Tesla endured before they reached high enough scale to become profitable with EVs. Legacy is going to have to follow the same path of accepting losses. But the path will be easier for them. Batteries are massively cheaper now and EV component supply companies are up and running.
The problem is that the CEO can see the writing on the wall and will move manufacturing to the low cost producer. Then tyhey will keep his pay at the same rate or higher. Unless you provide an incentive to keep manufacture in Europe this is what going to happen.
Malaysia have done the same thing against foreign imported cars with extremely high tariff and ban to protect local car market maker Proton. It failed badly after it was forced to open its car market to the world. U til it was partly taken over by Geely for the latter technology and skills in making better cars. It is still not doing that todate. The better selling cars are made by Geely China but under Proton badge.
NIO ET7 costs 61,000 euros in China, in Germany it costs 70,000 euros. European officials say "Why so cheap?" Raise it to BMW level. Am I the only one who thinks something is wrong here?
I don’t get it. If BYD or any Chinese manufacturer wants to sell you cars at an affordable price cas Chinese govt is giving them some incentives. Whats the harm? In the end we consumers benefit from cheaper Evs.
Hmmm! A guy named Warren Buffet was (past tense) A BIG stock holder BYD. He sold it all. Wonder why?
Thank you for reporting the truth. This remimds me of the death of Blackberry.
>?> Thank you for reporting the truth
In Europe, in the Netherlands, all Chinese brands are major sales flop...except Mg and Lynck&co, Volvo (also considered a Chinese brand). Byd, Nio, etc etc no sales at all despite hugh marketing efforts.....no suc6 at all.
Only Tesla sells extremly well and only model Y.
I am waiting for a BYD Yangwang U8 and a SAIC MG Cyberster.......
U8 will be launched in 4 days
@@peijinli3628
I want to buy one in Europe!!! I tried to buy a U8 on the Shanghai Motor show. They said they don't deliver to Europe yet! Me sad!! Very sad!!
It’s a good thing that China is expanding into the EU. EU have protected the German car market for to long. The German car makers need to step up their game to stay alive, not implement taxes and regulations. And Chinese cars aren’t that cheap either😆 They sell for the same price in Sweden as most German cars do. And to be honest the German cars aren’t that good anymore.
China startup provided reusable rocket to Spacex under trade deficit. Tesla, Solar City, Starlink, The Boring Company, Nurolink are all Chinese startup to boost US economy.
European here. Time for change & fairness. So much anti china bias, when EU is doing same shit its accusing china of.. same goes with us ofc. Cheering on the chinese cos they've honestly earned it (this time)
The French automakers as pushing EU to investigate Chinese EV's, as they want to get a better share of the sales to China who imports predominantly German cars. "Your friend is not really a friend."
There will be a huge EU backlash.
Sure, Europe is scared but dumping below cost is considered illegal everywhere. It’s not appropriate to grab market share by dumping below cost.
the World,s hardworking poor America, Eu Latinamerica Needs Cars like these!!!
I'd love to see car price go down for that matter. No chinese ev in canada😢
No. It's actually that the european ev cars are ridiculously expensive.
China is the biggest power battery manufacturer. It is able to make the price low.
To be honest, many of us are shocked by the high price of Chinese ev cars in EU.
And it more shocking that EU still thinks that they are too cheap.
Whether it Geeley, Chery, GAC, Changan or BYD, they’re all crap. Geeley can take 4 months just to have service done or even get parts. Complaints are running through the roof in our country. Limited car inventory and usually here today gone tomorrow. No consistency. Stay away.
Tesla’s Shanghai plant will be affected by the EU tax !
Can't they just use the Berlin plant?
@@ChrizzeeB and hit all that lucrative profits from China.
Wow
German auto companies should JV with Chinese EV companies to survive. German manufacturers anyway is screwed with high energy cost without cheap Russian gas.
Its because all you had to do was put a generator on one axle to keep the car charging itself and get unlimited mileage that would save the planet not burning coal to keep the car going it makes no sense
Germany might want to think about any tariffs on Chinese cars. Losing the Chinese market would cause massive losses for VW, Mercedes and BMW. The Chinese govnemnt won't take away any factories, but they could make things difficult. They could simply put tariffs on imported cars, but the EVs are almost all made in China anyway, or place tariffs on European brands -- the small number of 'German' EVs which are sold in China would be become zero......
Sit back and relax, the EU Commission in Bruxelles will pose substantial tariffs on Chinese cars. The Chinese Market is highly regulated for foreign companies in so many ways. In China foreign automakers can’t own the majority stake in a joint venture, all has to be with an angle favorable for the chinese. The EU will do the same versus Chinese automakers.
I assume the Chinese can still enter the UK, Switzerland and Norway markets unaffected by the potential EU tariffs.
Depends if they are in the customs union.
£50 for a hoodie pullover i think is a bit over the top. Where you buying your stock?
apart mg4 there are no chinese EV cars in europe that could be considered cheap. even the mg4 isn't cheap, but is on par with ICE cars
In a way, Europe's beginning to comprehend actually what PPP is.
Back long ago there came to be no USofA government, it being swapped out with it being the majorest of CORPORATION. The "GIANTS" of industries have all been, and all are now, subsidized through the CORPORATION of the USofA.
Problem is every European car is made with Chineese parts.
The Chinese could have a 6 month export ban… It would bankrupt VW Mercedes etc…
If you can't compete with them, join them .. Europe car makers has to look beyond Europe. Leveraging on China's logistics and network.. they can ride into emerging and developing markets in BRICS nation.
Europeans companies just need to make a good affordable eletric car like Volvo just did. It's not that difficult. (I know Volvo is mostly chinese owned at this point)
Err Volvo is COMPLETLY Chinese owned not mostly.
The China EV’s are too competitive now to be expensive. Since US and EU are selling a lot of autos in China, high import tariffs only invites retaliation from China. US and EU become more protective means becoming less competitive, gradually losing market in other parts of the world.
The Swedish government said no to subsidizing Volvo and Saab. that is one of the reasons they are Chinese owned today.
and saab passenger cars are dead..
It would be much more productive to take the Chinese play book and start to build joint venture for battery, chips, sensor etc. In exchange for market.
The EU can choose not to import the EVs, what's the problem?
Why they ask people to pay too much?
China's labor cost is at least 7 times lower while their productivity is at least 2 times higher, so it's not difficult to figure out why their cars were cheaper.
You sell a car here I build a hotel there! Haha, no more.
How many years have European automakers sold cars in China? Japanese cars are sold in Europe. China is just doing what everyone else already has. China is doing everyone a favor by showing automakers what they should be making just like Tesla tried to.
Put as much as duty as they want, ultimately it’s just protectionism and artificially increases the cost base of life within the EU or any other jurisdiction with such tariff in place. At the same time, it does not alter the commercial competitiveness of its societies. It’s just not sustainable but will just continue to price the EU out of the global market. Once upon a time EU cars had the technology edge to justify the margin, not any more in the BEV world. The key question is whether EU/govt is willing to fix the root cause of their lack of competitiveness and cost base.
>> It’s just not sustainable but will just continue to price the EU out of the global market.
Bristol motors in uk never took money from govt.