We Need To Talk About Jeep...
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
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In this video we do a deep dive surrounding the future of Jeep, where they have come from, and questions and concerns we have surrounding the brands newest products.
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#Jeep #Wrangler #grandcherokee 
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It's somewhat simple, Jeep is trying to go up-market and caterer to the 17% of public that can afford the price. Unfortunately they don't have the brand recognition to be in that arena. As such, they have abandon 83% of the buying public that were loyal Jeep buyers. It's time Jeep woke up and remembers who their customer base was.
The problem is Jeep became woke to the tree-hugging environment and are fast asleep to what their customer, the Jeep buyer actually wants.
So what of Mazda? Nobody has the upmarket label until they've been in that game for at least a decade. The 17% will buy the cars new and the rest of us will get them as a second or third owner.
@krane15 I think Mazda has kinda entered that Buick/Mercury segment.
Kinda mainstream kinda premium.
Plus when you look at the two brands, their heritage, and lineups it kinda makes sense. Jeep is not known for luxury and is know for ruggedness and cheap terrible interiors.
Mazda really didn't have anything going for it. They might have a legacy but not one mass market buyers cared for. They don't have many new cars jumping the gun into luxury price territory except those new crossovers they released. Their interiors and style also look pretty premium as well.
Jeep is still known for poor quality and cheap interiors.
Just my opinion.
@@baronvonjo1929 I had a 2018 Mazda CX9 Grand Touring Edition. I personally loved it. My wife didn't like it. For $43,000 it was fully loaded. You couldn't beat the price. The only thing it didn't have because at the time it wasn't an option was ventilated seats. Maxda put out a new model called the CX90 and I think the pricing on that has pushed the car into the high $50,000 range which would turn me off to leasing another one.
@@thethomasj1795 Yes that's the reason!🤣
Jeep needs to offer an affordable wrangler, like they used to. There is a missed market opportunity where people would buy a base wrangler and then spend money upgrading it.
I agree. The "suv mother" in the 2010's jumped prices without the tech. So now sold at over 15,000 over what should be on models.
Maybe they should have partnered with Mahindra rather than sue them and have the entry level jeep on the US roads
If only suzuki made the jimny in the US it would sell like hotcakes.
Here in LA the jeep already financed is 111k, , that's way too much
@Inferno45 at this particular time, in this economy I'd have to agree with you.
Reason I owned a Jeep in college and when I graduated in the 90's it was a cheap 4wd, easy to fix and not pricey. This is what happens when you have people in management that do not understand the brand. You can still make a profit without pricing a large portion of customers out. I understand the company needs to make profit. They should only have the Jeep Wrangler, Gladiator, Grand Cherokee and the Wagoneer. Then revamp the pricing
As a Wrangler owner and lifelong Jeep lover, I think you guys are spot on. I’m holding onto my JKU as long as I can because anything new from Jeep is either completely unobtainable or nowhere near the affordable off-road capable vehicles that complemented the Wrangler (i.e. the XJ or original Wagoneer).
Good luck with that, Jeeps are horribly unreliable and don't last
I loved my jeep because of the rugged simplicity, especially in the power train. There was simply very little to break when I was really using it in a rugged setting. Now? Not so much. I am not paying the inflated prices and I don't need a small delicate turbo stressed 4 cylinder engine that probably needs premium gas.
A simplistic $30k wrangler and reboot of the XJ would be welcomed in my garage.
Maybe even $25k?
@@jeremy8715 Maybe -8K? They give you 8K to take it and a free puppy?
I'm sure they could make a new Wrangler and price it below a Corolla SE and be profitable.
That is definitely, 100%, absolutely achievable.
@@tim3172a bj for a cj?
Wrangler starts at 32k…
So you want a time machine back to the 1990s then?
Jeep got greedy adding options you could get a la carte into an expensive package. $72k for a Jeep Rubicon (not the X) is ridiculous.
Totally agree on this. Other car brands has all the packages that jeep made la carte standard. Jeep has gone over their head on pricing.
Jeep got greedy? What about Toyota's RAV4? Its pushing 50k at the top end and can't even go off road. Meanwhile, some of its off-road capable vehicles are 50-70+. Just look at the
I think a fully loaded Jeep Wrangler should be $45k-$50k max. And I mean with 35’s and 37’s standard.
@@1arry13gend LOL.. Really?
Gotta remember you’re taking 12-15k off in rebates and incentives
Dealers here in Kentucky are advertising $15,000 to $18,000 off MSRP on Wrangler/Gladiator because they can't sell them anymore. The prices finally tipped the bucket and people have said NOPE!
Yeah, $15,000 off after increasing MSRP $20,000 over the past few years, so their still selling for $50,000, even with the discounts. Their cars are still super expensive.
Maybe if Kentucky stopped donating their welfare checks* to Trump's election, they could afford a new vehicle?
*(#3 state in the country for recipients and #2 for total paid out, let's GO!!!)
@@tim3172ahh you love the 3 letter agencies. You are singing their song. Sorry this has happened to you.
@@tim3172 go get your head checked, it's defective. You seriously sound f'd up
@@tim3172Geez…don’t go away mad, just go away!
What has really put me off has been how over time they increasingly limit options to different trim levels. At one point you could say I want a Grand Cherokee with a more utilitarian interior (because I am going to actually do outdoorsy stuff with it) but I also want the V8 Hemi. Over time the V8 wasn't even allowed in the 'Limited' you had to step up to Overland or Summit and end up with a $70-80K Grand Cherokee. At that point.... even for those that can afford it --- why. They are just other options at that price point.
They got greedy and forgot who their core customers were.
Everyone does that now and it's stupid
Jeep needs to do an entry level “Suzuki Jimmy” style truck: tiny, square, capable, charming and fuel efficient
They do renegade trail hawk.
@@superkill30I guess you missed the part where they said they no longer make the renegade. They no longer have a cheaper jeep and the compas isn't a jeep.
@@superkill30the renegade is not body on frame. Its not even close to the Jimny.
I had a Renegade and if you live in MT and don't do much off roading, it basically is a perfect car with MORE 4WD capabilities than other "AWD" vehicles so National Forests are FUN but not Moab. You can still get one new for low low 20's but you better hurry. But, I agree they should have gone another generation on them imho... The Compass actually is built on the same fram just a bigger body. I didn't like em. The problem with the Renegade was that although perfect for Montana, it was NOT for large urban areas where honestly, you would never need the 4WD capabilities. Simple, AWD works fine in a city... Sand Mode is for the mountains or beaches... It was always the hidden easter egg imho. If you have one, take it on a good dirt back road sometime in sand mode. You will wonder what happened with all the power in a narrow band great engine breaking vs the auto mode designed strictly for gas mileage...
But, the fact that Jeeps are really nothing more than a statement for city people is a problem. When the prices start getting to where they are, and other companies are making a run at Jeep's core lineage, many are going to choose the lesser priced, more goodies inside version of the competitors. I bought a Gladiator here before the end of 2023 at 30% off and MSRP of 60,800, but I did look at a Chevy Colorado MSRP of 43K and quite loaded. Yes, they were selling at MSRP but it still had more "stuff" on it than the Freedom Edition JT I bought.
I have WANTED a Gladiator since they came out and balked at prices so the 30% finally got me to buy, but when competitors can offer up a full priced decent 4WD P/U at one third less MSRP a lot of people are going to go that way...and it shows...
They've priced themselves out of the market. Took them way to long to incorporate turbos into their lines. They killed off the Cherokee line and Grand Cherokee is $70k and the Compass is too small and overpriced for $40k. Charging luxury car prices for subpar quality.
I’ve owned Jeeps for over 20 years. Actually have only owned Jeeps. Sure they’re giving the Willys a locker, adding 35s to the 2 door finally, added a free float rear… but something seems off with Jeep now. They don’t support trail access like they use to, they’re too expensive, and they want to be a luxury brand. That’s not Jeep. My next new vehicle probably won’t be a Jeep for the first time in my life.
Land cruisers will always be superior
same ✋
I have a 2016 JKU since brand new. I also had a 1992 YJ Renegade for 15 years. But in 2022 I wanted to get a mid sized truck as well. I couldn't even get a sport S Gladiator for the price I got my SR5 Trail Taco for (rear locker). Unless someone is super brand loyal, they are pricing themselves out of the markets they are competing in. I considered myself a "Jeep guy" I still do. But I am not that brand loyal.
Everyone wants to be a luxury brand, it seems, even if they are not and never have been a luxury brand, like Jeep, Volvo etc.
@@TheEmptyMags 2016 JKU since brand new as well! Just hit 100k on it. Completely paid off and love it but don't know what I want to get next.
Well done video- I was a new car sales manager for a Jeep dealer from 2010-2020- I bought a 2022 Wrangler Unlimited Willys manual trans and crank windows for $37k- I'm 55 and at the rate they're going it may be my last one.
My 21 Cherokee Trailhawk has pulled me out of jams that no crossover ever should. It’s extremely comfortable and it’s nuts they got a rid of it.
I love my 22 TH. One thing I love is that it’s relatively rare compared to other jeeps. It’s like a perfect medium between highway and off road capability. We can go just about anywhere with confidence. I think they’re pulling it to make room for that small boxy electric one. Can’t remember the name now, but they mentioned it a couple times in the vid. Looks good just not the same as a Cherokee. But then again at least we won’t be seeing another facelift or Cherokee model that makes our feel old.😂
I agree
I would have ditched the Compass before the Cherokee. You guys are great together.
Yeah wtf is the point of the compass. The Cherokee was atleast offroad capable and came with a v6.
Not only would I have ditched it before the Cherokee, I would have based the Dodge Hornet on it before basing it on an Alfa. Could have given it the same drivetrain as the Hornet with the V6 as an option. It's also US made, but I think this is probably one of the driving forces behind them axing the Cherokee. Stellantis makes more money on Fiats and Alfas then actual Jeeps and Dodges, and the Compass is a Fiat at the end of the day.
The compass is sold in Europe whereas the Cherokee is not. At least in the UK. We haven’t had the Cherokee since 2016 before the refresh.
I mean I would have come out with a Cherokee that was decently reliable. At least with the Compass it has shown some area of improvement (mostly looks) from its first iteration. The newer Cherokee was a recall disaster with an ugly face that paled in comparison to the original which was iconic. And it never really got better
need a fixed roof wagon /suv on the 2 dr wrangler wheel base new Cherokee ? , a mini pickup 6'box on the 4dr wrangler wheel base new scrambler ?
I’m a huge Jeep fan, I have a Gladiator. Love it, no issues with it whatsoever. Got a hell of a deal during Covid. But they cost way too damn much. Jeep needs to drop the price! I’m not someone that hates the pentastar either, for my needs it’s plenty. But when Ford and Toyota are offering more power and torque in their midsizes…..you need another engine option.
The pentastar destroy those engines down low where it matters, I've owned them all. I also have a gladiator but jeep refuses to fix my leaking rear window at 14 months old 17k
@@mblake0420 dang that sucks! Try another dealer? Go on the forums and message Jeep cares.
Dang that stinks! Try another dealership? Or get on the forums and message Jeep cares. Compared to these new turbo 4s though, they’re the engines that are making gobs of torque down low.
@15jwrangler I've called "jeep cares" apparently they don't care. Said 24 hrs and they will get ahold of me, day 3 still waiting
@15jwrangler I wouldn't take a turbo 4 if you paid me, there is a reason they haven't been doing those till now, government regulations. They won't last 75k miles before they burn up
You guys are right on track. There are many of us who can not afford these high-end vehicles. I think Jeep will be missing out long term by discarding a large group of people who has helped keep them going all of these years.
It's looking like my 17-year-old Grand Cherokee (which I love) might be my last Jeep.
2001 limited 4.7l v8, The writing is on the wall I'll never be able to get a newer Jeep and it looks as if I wouldn't want one anyway because they've become even more unreliable and expensive. A Used Cherokee XJ beat to hell and barely running is above $5,000 then you have to put another 5k in it to make a daily. Used Jeeps have sky high prices and will only go up as the gov tries to force ice engines out regardless of what we the people want. The future is bleak to say the least for Jeep enthusiasts unless your rich.
That's what its down to, and the only practical solution to the rising cost of cars these day
Don't see good things for Jeep with a bunch of Eurocrates at the helm. They won't be in tune w/ the brand and it s customer base.
I've owned 5 JEEP's over the years, an 86 Comanche, 2 XJ's and 2 TJ's. Currently my #4 is a 2000 TJ SPORT with 190k on it and I recently added #5, a 1996 XJ SPORT with 388k, both with the venerable 4.0L. I picked up the TJ just 4 years ago for $9 grand and the XJ for just $5 grand back in December. I can't afford a $50-100 grand new vehicle but staying within my budget, both the TJ and XJ are going to last me a long time. Love the channel, greetings from just north of you in Cheyenne.
I'm identical to your vehicles, have a 1996 XJ, and a 2006 TJ
@TFL: Congrats to Nathan for this video! My comment for what’s worth it is that this very evident Jeep Identity Crisis ( I agree wholeheartedly, btw) is a result from the “old management” departure. The people that have left spent their entire careers with Jeep; indeed they were Jeep! In addition, they were Americans who knew INTIMATELY and, INSTINCTIVELY , the market and their native and, therefore, natural target market! The rugged Far-West, so to speak, the freedom only the American open spaces make you feel…and how to conquer them; with a true, unadulterated JEEP!
As a European (Greek) who came to the USA at the young age of 18, and who now is 76 but lives equally between the two countries and has a JGC Overland Trail Rated in Greece and a JGC Trailhawk here in the States, I understand the issues and the conundrum Stellantis is faced with. Something, I am certain, the new Stellantis top management does not. Their view, outlook and vision is influenced by the fact that they are not Americans! The places where they were born, raised, educated and built their careers are totally different than the American-way; and therefore, the Jeep brand, as part of and indeed totally different animal than the other brands and parts of Stellantis, will suffer for it.
So, the fact, IMHO, is that they are and will continue to make decisions that will be and are European in nature and character! More upscale, more refined, more expensive, in short, more “elegant” may be what the Europeans want but it’s the EXACT opposite of what the “traditional and core” Target Market of the Jeepers in North America want!
And, I may be wrong here, but as Jeep in the USA/Canada is their largest business segment in Stellantis’ businesses, they ought to continue paying special (key word) attention to the needs, wants, dreams, affordability of this special part of their business! And not chase their real or perceived competitors! Look what Toyota,Ford, Range Rover, their core competitors, are doing: bringing models that are aimed squarely at occupying the market space that Stellantis/Jeep are leaving wide open. Plus Bronco
Lest they kill the goose that keeps the company afloat!
This Europeanization of Jeep has to stop! Indeed market economics dictate otherwise!
Thanks to all who had the time and energy to read my admittedly long comment/commentary to its conclusion.
RAM and Jeep dealers are overflowing with inventory here in Canada. So many 2023 and some 2022's.
Can confirm. The same cars sit for months on full lots here in southern Alberta
On the other side of the coin, Toyota dealers in Canada have waitlists that span several years for their hybrid and Prime vehicles. 😬
I have an offer for a brand new 2021 wrangler on my table
Same here in Michigan.
Got one last year. The same cars I chose between are still in the lot. SW Ont.
My Dad who is currently laid-off from the Belvidere assembly plant. Told me yesterday, that his UAW representative told him there are plans to bring 3 new vehicles to the assembly plant.
And all of them will SUCK and won't be good capable off road vehicles because Fiat all but stopped making them. By 2030 a Jeep wrangler will cost 150k and crappy little Compass will be 60k.
It doesn't matter, if they can't lower production costs, they will to expensive and Stellantis will push for EVs & very expensive PHEVs to offset the shitty MPG of RAM trucks so they can meet increasing CAFE standards.
I really agree with you on this one!!
It seems that big companies have a major disconnect with what consumers want.
It seems they are trying to shove cars down our throats, that they want us to buy, not really caring about what we want.
They have a (profit margin), they need to get in order to make shareholders happy.
Not really care if it makes them go out of business…
I really do miss the Wranglers of old. My first was a 1995 YJ that I bought used in 1997 and drove for 10 years. I “upgraded” to a 2012 JK and had a really hard time falling in love with it. Now, 12 years and many different Jeeps later I have figured out what Jeep can make me feel like I did when I had that first one. The 1994 JY Wrangler that’s sitting in my driveway that still puts the biggest smile on my face every time I drive it!
Charging Lexus prices for sub par Italian flavored jeep quality. Nuff said.
Everything is expensive if you dont like it then go buy a kia and see how that works for ya
Hmmm…. A poorly made Jeep Wrangler or a new Lexus GX 🤔
Let’s be real, less than 20% of new Wrangler buyers are going off-road in any serious type of manner. I’d take Lexus build quality and reliability any day of the week.
Selling me Italian ice and calling it ice cream.
Read "Toyota" @@MrTickleBean
@@Inferno45 The funny thing about that statement is that Kias are getting crazy expensive now too lol. There’s really no such thing as a “cheap Kia” now, they don’t even stock them at dealers - and they killed off the Rio last year. I just commented on another post about how I had a 2020 Telluride and got it for just over $38,000 and it cost LESS per month than the 2018 Compass I was leasing. Crazy good deal. But now, to get the exact same mid-trim Telluride again for the 2024 MY is about $44,000 now and an extra ~$150 a month. You can price Tellurides, Stingers, EV6, EV9 etc. all to around or OVER $60,000 now…😩😵💫
EVERYTHING is getting way too expensive!
Somebody somewhere decided that mass market vehicles with low profit margins wasn’t nearly as worthwhile to produce as premium to luxury vehicles that return a much higher profit per vehicle sale.
That was a smart strategy when credit was cheap and easy. But a world in which the banks are making it harder and harder to get huge loans on depreciating assets makes selling up-market luxury goods to people who can't really afford it - a bad call.
@@nothingtoseaheardammit Yep. The balance tipped too far. These companies have a hell of a lot of bean counters. Decisions aren't "just because". They are in business for one reason. To make money. Now the pendulum is going to have to come back some because even the "entry level" vehicles are 45K.
It's almost like they teach that in business school. Can you believe the nerve!
@@nothingtoseaheardammit Getting credit was much harder decades ago. It was much harder after the housing and banking collapse in the late 2000s. Compared to then, credit is still relatively easy to get. Even when it becomes a problem, it's not like high-end automakers are facing an existential crisis, they are simply part of a boom/bust cycle of cash flow, and they have become stronger with each and every cycle that passes in recent times.
If anything is experiencing an existential crisis, it's the middle-class car buyer. They don't have as much spending power anymore to justify producing a product they can afford, so there becomes fewer and fewer options.
It makes more sense:
Fewer employees required. Less factory space required. Fewer raw materials required. Less shipping, lower costs.
Just less hassle all around to make more high-profit vehicles rather than more low-profit ones.
I want to rant for a second. First, I 100% agree with your sentiments. What frustrates me the most is that Jeep is moving away from their off road heritage. You can’t get the 4WD off road package on any I.C.E. GC. You can only get the 2-speed T-case on the $70K - $80K trims. I feel like most people are not going to take their $75K SUV off road. The Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD capability was among the most appealing things about the vehicle, to me. Also, why are they pricing the Grand Cherokee like a full size SUV? If you buy a Grand Cherokee for its towing and utility features, you have to spend about as much as you would on the more capable full size SUVs. It just doesn’t make sense. The packaging doesn’t make sense. The prices are outrageous. No matter how much someone can spend, there are some core features they can’t get anymore that used to be what made the Grand Cherokee so special. They need to really reconsider where they’re going as a brand. Slow down a bit. Listen to customers. Dealers. Rant over.
I’ve owned 2 Jeeps in my lifetime and loved both of them. Both did have reliability problems but were easy to work on and I was able to fix most issues myself. I ended up going with a FJ Cruiser about 10 years back and will not trade it in for any of today’s Jeep products. Jeeps have become way too expensive and still have reliability problems that I don’t think I’d be able to fix in my garage.
A great example of the most important question that never was asked in a corporate meeting…
“Should we?”….
They only asked
“Can we?”…..
The average transaction price of Jeeps in general has increased more than 50% and their sales are down essentially 1/3 over five years. The writing is on the wall.
So if each jeep was 30k and they used to sell 60k units = 1800000000
Now each jeep is 45k and there selling 40k units... 1800000000
They're losing zero dollars selling far fewer units... hence why their stock is performing so well spite their sales slumping
@@omardevonlittle3817I agree but it also will hit a wall. Priced to high and there are other options. Based off pics what wealthy person is going to choose the Wagoneer S over a Range Rover? Also, you run out of that top echelon buyer eventually. I think you see that in Wagoneer sales.
@@Michael-ur5qbI think they’re chasing the Range Rover crowd and moving upmarket just like Mazda is doing.
@@Michael-ur5qb range rover? Even a garbage defender is 30k+ more
@@chipb1193 at least Mazda id argue has the freedom to do so, where Jeep is sacrificing a fanbase.
Let's stop pretending that people will want to go into the back country with an electric jeep. What a joke!
jeep well probably go bankrupt because of EV.😢 EVs can't off road.
And that might matter to the 5% who actually take their jeeps off road.
I think of Nathan as a consumer's advocate and think this channel could be a buying group (15K views, 1.5 M followers). He or someone like him could make car companies build/sell affordable and expensive cars that we need.
I live out here in Puerto Rico and I have a 1988 Jeep Cherokee XJ Pioneer 4x4 with 500,000K miles on the legendary 4.0L already and still going strong!
Jeeps problem is being an iconic American vehicle now owned by an Italian car company that’s ran the brand into the ground.
I'm trying to figure out how a mazaroti executive fits into jeep in any way. It makes no sense and shows how little they understand the off road market.
Jeep was always off road capability first road comfort and luxury a very distant second while everyone else went luxury and road comfort first and off road capabilities a distant second. That set jeep apart in a way to that pretty much owned the off road market in the US and could easily the world if they tried. Italians aren't known for off road vehicles at all, they'd be smart to separate the jeep brand from the rest of the their holdings and let real off road people run jeep at every level, it would probably make for a better jeep and better sales globally.
same can be said for dodge too, theyre newest car is a rebadged alfa.
It genuinely feels like that’s what’s truly holding Jeep and Ram back now. Ford and GM executives seem to have a better idea of “America” and what the people want, not what the government is telling people that they should want. Having the Raptor R when Ram just killed the TRX. GM investing more money into new V8s. Ford still having the V8 in the Mustang. Jeep and Ram need to be bought by some American billionaire and put real American citizens back in positions of power. Last time I checked, Maserati was basically extinct. So how that CEO got another job is insane to me. It’s unfair that Jeep and Ram are the only ones profiting and literally keeping those other Stellantis brands alive. Imagine if they separated and all that profit actually went back into Jeep and Ram, and not given to shit brands that Americans don’t even buy like Alfa, Fiat, Maserati, etc. The Cherokee is one of the most historic nameplates, getting rid of that tells you that clearly there is too much international input being given, and not prioritizing American values for a brand that should be one of the most “patriotic” considering it was literally a war vehicle
THIS. Stop with the Euros running the brand.
Stellantis is based in Amsterdam
I am in favor of change and moving forward but I think Jeep should stick to their roots and offer a well made , inexpensive, no frills, Wrangler for off road.
Jeep will do what makes them money. They are not a charity organization. If the bean counters and accountants determine that will make them more money then they will do it. Not "just because it is a nice thing to do".
@@danielrn133 I know that , but it seems folks are looking for inexpensive vehicles. I think this high end approach won't last long because the bean counters are out of touch with who consumers are.
that customer will buy the used market Jeep. Just like with BMW@@erich.4305
the large volume vehicles unsold on dealer lots doesn't demonstrate that. Inventory sitting unsold doesn't make money.@@danielrn133
RUclips comments are not really reflected in reality @@erich.4305
While working for the Alaska Railroad, my buddy Garrett just bought a brand new Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4 x 4, and I asked him where it was and he said they're waiting on a part. A brand new $60,000 Jeep that he did not have for two months because a part had failed and they could not get another. Not only do they have the most uncomfortable seats I've ever sat in, the doors are paper, thin, and you're paying a premium price for something that feels like it's worth half of its value. I guess the old adage of fool and his money are soon parted, still rings true?
the doors are thin because they are supposed to be removable. and easy to store somewhere. if you went with the thickness of any other vehicle you are looking at a minimum of at least 10 inches (not including the mirror or window cranks but bearing in mind that most vehicle doors are curved from top to bottom)
a jeeps door is straight up flat and about 5 inches thick at the internal handle area. not gonna be very warm in alaska, but on that same point, its not like the roof has any insulation being as its either canvas or fiberglass. no insulation or padding
You kind of nailed it, more professionally than I. Jeep has priced themselves out of the market. Add in the garbage 4 banger engines and the problem gets bigger. No v6 option in the Renegade hurt sales. The 4 cylinder in it has reliability issues. Outside of the Wrangler and Wagoneer, they're a company focused on soccer moms. And at their price point, there are better options out there.
An American icon being run by people who don't "get" America.
Jeep cannot sell anything right now. Too expensive and even with the programs now “14k off msrp” no is buying their trash with over 300+ days on the lot
I work at a jeep dealership, i'm not sure of where you are, but where are they at the only incentives they are offering are on 2023 vehicles. But keep in mind that even a Toyota has Brand New 2023 tacoma's they are still trying to sell. Jeeps are selling a bit better then most other vehicles.
Tacomas on lot, not where I am.
Every manufacturer is having this problem.
15-20k off current Wrangler and Gladiator msrp is just getting back to normal pricing. They need bigger discounts for them to be ‘on sale’. They shouldn’t cost more than a Toyota 4Runner or Tacoma and those can be had for low 40’s for a loaded TRD Off Road Premium. A new off the lot, well optioned Wrangler Rubicon or Mojave Gladiator for 40k is just about right.
Edit to add with 1.9-2.9% interest rate. At 6-8% interest $40k is still too high.
In Idaho, Tacomas are typically sold before they're on the lot or within a week of arrival...
I’m currently working on moving to a Truck off-roader from my Wrangler. The reason why I’m not going with a gladiator is because compared to its direct competitors, it’s woefully under equipped in power train and electronics that matter (Mainly Cameras). They didn’t even take the opportunity to add standard front cameras with the new info system. Yet they have the gall to charge the most in the segment. 😂
I have been trying to convince myself to buy a Gladiator for the last 6 months. I just can't do it... yet. Waiting to see if the prices collapse. It's just not worth what the dealers are asking.
We bought my wife's Wrangler JL in 2019 for $42k Happy to say we paid it off this month almost 2 years early.
I find that the little boxy vehicles are nearly perfect for rural America especially with awd or 4x4. The Renegade was the nicest box on the road.
I'm a little sad they got rid of the renegade, i bought a factory ordered fully loaded trailhawk in 2022 for $35k and i absolutely love it. Not sure if it's because mine was a factory order, but build quality on it seems very good with pretty much zero rattles/creeks or crazy panel gaps, and the ride quality is actually good as well, it's respectably quiet and smooth. i've taken it off-road and on some trails and it is amazing if you keep in mind that it's not a rock crawler. A year + in and 8k miles hasn't had a single issue either.
Why does/did it get sooo much hate? The only downsides i've noticed are the seats being a little firm, fuel economy is below average, and the price is higher than it probably should be as is just about everything nowadays.
I'm glad you like your Renegade. They are quirky little things an do have a certain appeal. That being said.... At the end of the day, they are just a subcompact unibody that was leveraged into an 'off roader.' At 8K miles you are probably still in the honeymoon phase. Add another 40K to that and it isn't going to be the new car you love today. It's just the nature of small platforms like that. The Cherokee is the same way. I haven't driven in the Compass or Renegade but I would imagine it is similar to the Cherokee; the ride is harsh, noisy and not particularly comfortable compared to a GC..
And, for $35K, I just bought a 28k mile 4Runner TRD Off Road...
We got each of the twins new '19 TH Renegades before they went off to college. Not a lick of trouble and each have 50k+ miles on them. They're great, and no CVT like the Subie's. However in 2019, we got them new for under $24k...now they'd be $35k...and that right there is they stopped selling.
I've always liked the styling of thd Renegade...it was just the reliability that gave me pause.
@@luchaDor hopefully your luck continues with those. My 17 lived in the shop with nonstop issues. Off the top of my head I can remember it getting 2 transmissions, 3 TCM's, a ECM and BCM, new wiring harness, 2 sets of cooling fans, oil pump recall, valve cover gasket, head gasket, injectors, vacuum pump, and some other things I'm forgetting.
I bought it new with 10 miles and got rid of it 2 years later. The value on them tanked so bad after you leave the lot.
2017 jeep renegade latitude 60,000, have had zero problems.
Needed to be said. Good talk
15:57 I own& still live the 1st gen Jeep Compass. It’s decent offroad. Amazing in the snow. It’s just great.
I used to be a HUGE Jeep fan. Owned a YJ, TJ, a couple of XJs, and a ZJ. The company has lost its soul. I now drive an Xterra Pro4-X because is it way more dependable than modern Jeeps and it feels brawny/off-roady. I miss Jeep as I knew it in the 90s & 2000s.
Did you mention the Gladiator? I bought a Renegade in 2019 because I thought they were too expensive. But, of late, I got a new Freedom Edition MSRP 61K at 42K and change with 30% off Stellantis/Dealer incentives... BUT, that itself only supports your last statements in the video. My deal works for me, but may reflect some other systemic (Stellantis) issues.
The Cherokee Trailhawk is going on 10 years old now. That would be a good candidate for the next Cheap Jeep series! It would be interesting to see how capable one of those is a decade later.
I love my 2015 Cherokee Trailhawk, however they took away the 3G connectivity which make the nav etc.. almost useless, why they could not just update the connectivity without having to replace the entire radio unit for lots of money is beyond me, especially when they have it in the newer ones and then the new Trailhawks are electric only which is just plain stupid. I'm waiting to see what 2025 has to offer but not quite sure I'll be getting another Jeep with what they have been doing.
Just picked up a Gladiator Rubicon for a touch over $41k. Deals are out there. Added it to my JL, and my Liberty. They ain’t the best, but I enjoy them.
They are going up in price even compared to inflation. J.D Power says a 1990 wrangler base MSRP was $12,029, adjusted for inflation would be around $28,316 and some change (using US CPI data). 2024 Wrangler base models start at $31,995. I'm sure other automakers are all the same, I just wish they'd find a business model that focuses on long term reliability rather than sensationalism and planned obsolescence. Like Toyotas are crazy expensive for something that was designed decades ago, but at least you are paying for peace of mind with their products (generally). We need more of that. Edit: Either lower your prices, or make the price reflect how long the cars will actually last without rebuilds on basic at home maintenance. We don't need NEW cars, we need the cars that WORK.
Need to bring a cherokee retro version similar to Bronco style but cheaper. Mid 30’s and this would dominate
You forgot American Motors (AMC) which was the owner of Jeep when I bought our first Cherokee in 1984. Chrysler took over a few years later, as I believe my 1988 Cherokee was a Chrysler product.
He did say AMC really fast.
Yes, he did mention it quickly.
Exactly what happened I will never forget when I purchased my jeep scrambler in 1984 in-line 6 258 engine American Motors perfect vehicle I pay 9,500 hundred dollars for that truck brand new just a heater were my options no AC, Radio, there gone oh well I love jeeps best off-roading vehicle ever built now 👎🏾except 4the 392 but who in the hell will pay 97,000 for that so, that’s why o went with a new 4Runner TRD off road premium built like a tank best Overland vehicle in the world 🤙🏾
There needs to be a recon or a new Cherokee with removable doors that is gas powered that has no turbo that has good gearing, at least a rear locker , and a low range greater than 45:1 , typically (to be a strong contender among all Jeeps).
If that can't be done , we might settle for a hybrid.
I'll watch the video and see what happens.
The problem with a lot of the Trailhawk Jeeps is the troublesome 9 speed automatic.
Jeep should learn from that and allow for a manual transmission option!
In 5 years (2018 JKU to 2023 JLU), the build of my Jeep has increased in price by 48.6%. For some comparison, in the same time frame between the TJ and the JK, the price went up 4.2%. And this is despite great advances in automation building the Wrangler, and the ridiculous outsourcing that FCA and Stellantis implemented making the Wrangler almost only 50% US with the rest from Mexico. I just priced my same build in a 2024 JLU and it's $59,000 MSRP. For a Sport S with the same options/add-ons I had on my JKU. Absolutely and utter insanity.
I totally agree …. I did the same calculation 48.9% more expensive totally insane … and probably my last Jeep Wrangler!!!!
@@Edscomment Yep I hear ya. Once the 2025 4Runner comes out, we will be shopping around for 3-5 yrs old used ones.
we have three Jeeps, wrangler, Grand cherokees, from 19-23 , got them for a fair value but wouldnt say they are reliable or ride well ,but get the job done but new Jeeps are insane priced, no way.
We have a '15 WK2 and it rides great. Decent off road with the 32s I put on it. It is really a sweet spot in their lineup. $25k used with ~80K miles, Limited trim, good gas mileage for not being a shitbox econo car (22mp/g), comfortable and probably what most buyers NEED when they buy a Wrangler. I might buy a used Wrangler some day down the road if my wife wants one, but I just bought a 4Runner TRD OR and love it. And the thing is, in 20 years, the 4Runner will still be running like a top. I have my doubts on the 3.6 in the GC...
Stelantis has destroyed the iconic American brands of Dodge, Chrysler and Jeep. Dodge has noting to sell. Chrysler has nothing to sell an Jeep has priced its way out of the reach of Joe average citizen.
I love your off-road vehicle performance reviews and comparisons. Could you make a video discussing which small to mid-sized hybrid SUVs available used for under $30,000 have the best combination of fuel economy and off-road performance? I'm looking for something that gets 38 MPG or better and can handle driving on most Forest Roads and BLM roads in the Western US, but no extreme rock-crawling. Toyota RAV4 Hybrid is at the top of the fuel economy list, but I'd love to know if another vehicle with similar fuel economy and cargo space actually performs better off-road?
I started working there in the early 80's... I started with AMC... And it just tumbled from there... Almost 35 year of service... 419, North Cove BLV, JEEP PKWY, Overland PARKWAY!... All gone now... Dana built something on that property
The XJ and the CJ's were my Favorite... Wagoneer's stopped about 1992/4.. and went to Jefferson ave
AMC Jeep was the best Jeep. Downhill ever since
Reliability reliability reliability, I’m not buying a vehicle that’s not going to last the length of my loan.
2024 Wrangler Willys 2 door. FINALLY has a proper locking rear differential, but base price is a bit brutal still.
The fact the compass still exists,,, 😂😂😂. It was hugely from day number one!! Ughhh. Jeep is lost right now. If they continue, the Wrangler is going to be phased out because they think they can charge Bronco prices! The Wrangler is a much more sip,e use vehicle. Go for a road trip of 4 guys fishing pulling a trailer with fishing & camping gear. The Wrangler sucks in comparison!! If it’s 1 or 2 people it’s not to bad in either, but the Bronco is more comfortable, nicer to drive in smooth roads, yet still does 90%+ of what the Wrangler does. Jeep will either start styling in that direction and drive the prices through the roof, or will phase it out.
The management team has gone from humble, down to earth approachable leaders that listen to the public to machismo stylish giant flare type of personalities that just don’t even understand that personality and communication exists!! The head of Maserati??? Hahaha… that’s not the guy I would put in front of the Jeep division. Dealing with flash and fire vs hard working purpose built vehicles will get you the EV that looks like,,, well,,, a Maserati!! Might as well morph a 7 pointed spear in there to blend the iconic grill with the trident!! 😂😂.
Bean counters and too much flash in the pan, bravado, etc and a total loss of reality. Jeepers might want to worry,,,.
I plan on keeping my 2018 JLUR for quite some time. I don’t use it as a daily driver for several reasons….. MPG being one and 37” tires ain’t cheap either.
Now that you have the Bronco which is direct DIRECT competitor + other highly capable mid-sized off-road trucks (Ranger/ZR2/TRD pro/pro-4x) there’s simply more options than before for a typical Jeep buyer
I had a fully optioned 2016 Rubicon which I purchased new for $42,000. When I build a 2024 Rubicon it prices out to $70K. Just ordered a Bronco.
A bronco is not cheaper lol
Plus a Bronco is not as capable. Bronco has its own fair share of issues especially with their new motors.
Jeep has lost its way. They are leaning too hard into being a luxury brand. In my mind they have strayed too far away from their roots and ultimately made Chrysler completely obsolete.
Is a big Jeep fan I absolutely agree with everything you guys said and I hope that Jeep will get out of this identity crisis as soon as possible.
You guys are on the mark! Jeep is hurting itself IMO by retiring the Cherokee and Renegade. I've owned Jeeps since 1991 & I was planning on buying a Cherokee when I retire, now I am forced to look at other brands. I wish they actually listened to their long-time customers. We need off-road capable and AFFORDABLE options. Seems like they are shifting to 'town' cars that look cool and super expensive off-road models, leaving their loyal customers in the lurch. Watch for hundreds of thousands leaving the brand, especially when others are stepping up their offerings and capability. I would rather buy a Subaru or Toyota or Nissan than pay the outrageous prices Jeep is pushing. Going to 4xe is out of the question as well because of the ridiculous pricing & limited capability. It looks like my current Jeep is the last Jeep I will ever own.
So many better options nowadays with better reliability and more comfortable. Think Land Cruiser, 4Runner etc
We'll see if the new Land Cruiser and 4Runner have reliability. Toyota has largely achieved reliability by not changing their models very often. The current 4Runner dates back more that 15 years. Say what you want about Jeep but they have at least kept their engines, powertrains, and interiors up to date (the 4Runner has an anemic engine, archaiic 5 speed transmission, outdated infotainment/interior, and terrible fuel economy). If you look at one of Toyotas most recent attempts at a new model (Tundra), it seems to have a rash of catastrophic early engine failures.
I will never get rid of my 2017 2dr jeep wrangler rubicon recon!!
and if you did, i would buy it! to park next to my 2017 rubicon recon
I bought my 1998 TJ Sport (4.0 - 5 speed) for $10K 6 years ago. It had less than 50K original miles and it still has it's clear coat. I installed the A/C myself last year. Fortunately, it's already wired for A/C even though it didn't come with A/C from factory (Pro Tip). I just bought new shoes (Goodyear "Wranglers"). I just changed the water pump and radiator myself for less than $200.
I'm sure the used car dealer that sold it to me thinks he got over... ok...
Doors off, Bikini top, 115K miles, and I'm just the coolest Jeep on the road. PERIOD.
This video confirms what I've been feeling and worried about recently. Jeep isn't interested in selling to average people anymore. When my JK goes, it's probably getting replaced with a Toyota.
I also have 0 interest in a battery powered car, which seems to be the only propulsion method they care about anymore
Wasn't the Renegade basically a Fiat? Would make sense why it went out of production with a new Parent Company.
Fiat is under this new parent company, so I'd assume there's another reason for discontinuing the Renegade that Jeep doesn't want to say.
Reworked Fiat 500x I believe
The renegade was getting to old and jeep was too lazy to redesign it.
Ah i see, i just checked that. I misunderstood it and thought that only Jeep was bought out. @@damilolaakanni
Stellantis and its brands are dead in 5 years, tops. Over a year of sitting inventory, they’re done for.
In Brazil there is also the Jeep Commander, which is a larger Compass with 3 rows, 4x2 or 4x4.
Never been happier to own a 2000 & 2003 Wrangler, & an 18' Pro4x w/ manual & king cab
After owning many wranglers and gladiators jeep is killing itself. My first Jeep wrangler se cost 17k how my 4xe rubicon is 75k. These prices are dumb comparable to other brands and options.
Unfortunately Jeep turned into an upscale brand years ago. Wranglers are extremely overpriced for what they are but people buy them
Fav part of the video was that FC at the beginning! Mine is getting sooooo close
Glad I bought my TJ when I did way back almost 20 years ago.
I think I'll just keep it!
I would buy the recon if they made an ICE version with solid axles. Basically, a Jeep version of the Ineos. While I own a Wrangler, my desire to have a roof capable of supporting a roof top tent along with a more quite interior, far eclipse any desire to take off the roof or doors.
Reliability is abysmal. If they sold vehicles which lasted 300k miles for those prices, fine.
I agree with you two. They’re losing sight of what makes a Jeep a Jeep.
I custom ordered a 2020 JLU Rubicon…the 3.6l and 8-speed looked great on paper…after 3.5 years there were too many problems/symptoms that all told me it was going to be trouble. Friends with wranglers, gladiators, and Rams, and problems they had as well made me feel like it was better to cut and run while it still had some value. I feel safer with the long term ownership potential of my brand new 4th gen tacoma than anything in the stellantis line unfortunately, I really wanted to love the Jeep for a long time.
to all who complain about price - keep in mind rav4 nowdays above 30 and 4runner is about 50. Everything went up like crazy.
$49k list for a 4Runner TRD Off Road Premium. My local dealer marked one down to $44k, but we passed to keep payments reasonable (if you can call $400+ a month reasonable). We went with a 28k used for $35. Couldn't be happier.
60k avg for a Wrangler is just crazy. She should consider building a modern day CJ 3. a small off-road focused vehicle probably have to build it in Mexico to make it affordable. Stellanis is huge, I’m sure they have a platform they can use.
It's a shame no one wants to offer a diesel in the US market. The bronco sport would do quite a bit better if it had a 2 liter diesel offering like 150-160hp but got 32-35 highway. I think killing the entry level vehicles was more streamlining their production lines. The compass is the same platform as the renegade, but with slightly more room in it and that 9 speed is one of the worst transmission around. They need to make an adaptable suv based unibody chassis, set it up for independent suspension that has some decent travel, the bring it in with lockers and an incentive to aftermarket manufacturers to get into producing parts for it. I enjoy small capable off road vehicles but even a 2 door wrangler has gotten so expensive I'd never spend money on one as a fun off road toy 2nd vehicle anymore.
Thank the EPA for no diesels. Europe is trying to kill them off too.
I was at a CDJR dealer last week picking up my new 2022 (yes, an unsold RAM 1500 Classic Warlock 4x4 V6 fully loaded with every option at 19,000 under MSRP ) and as you might imagine, they didn't have a lot of inventory except pre-owned, a few Challengers and Chargers, all at or above 100K, final editions and of course some over 100K Jeep Wagoneers. I was chatting with my salesguy and he said the word is that Jeep may spin off Wagoneer as a stand alone luxury brand like Hyundai/ Genesis. He rolled his eyes, said they can hardly sell the Wagoneer, the 4xE Cherokee or the 90K+ Grand Cherokee L, not a great situation. So yeah, Jeep has a problem. Have you heard of this idea? Im guessing that Land Rover looking Jeep you showed might be part of this
wranglers are almost out of reach for the majority of people!!
A Suzuki Jimny competitor would sell like hotcakes
What is a gimny? Suzuki doesn't make a model of that name.
I'd love to see a 7/8th size Wrangler. Full frame. 2 Locker option. No electric motors. Affordable and that can mean wind up windows, manual locks, no key fob, manual mirrors. For now, I'm keeping my 43k mile, 10 year old 4 door Wrangler and strongly considering upgrading to a couple lockers. I do offroad and am in an offroad Jeep club. I'm not paying fifty grand for a replacement and recently was looking at a 2017 Rubicon and could not even justify $33k. I'm not alone and there are plenty of aftermarket options to upgrade and keep our old Wranglers going over rocks. If Jeep keeps this up, they won't be getting my money for a new one.
Im in the UK & have just ordered an Avenger (mild hybrid) - it cones as EV, Gas, mild-hybrid & ive heard rumours of a 4XE version arriving this year.
The Avenger is small but a good drive, comfortable & practical.
A smaller Wrangler would be good though.
Dependability is a major concern for me when looking at any vehicle. I love the look of a gladiator but im not paying 60k for a 100k mile truck
annapolis md - every new wrangler is a 4Xe, and they are not moving…
The 4XE is an interesting power train on paper - lots of power, torque, and good fuel economy depending how you drive it. However, it would be a no go for me - too much complexity and cost. The Pentastar and the 2.0l turbo are far more to my liking - lower cost and much simpler. Likely to be more reliable and cost effective over the long haul.
I’ve never owned a Jeep but I own a bronco now and it’s made me fall in love with everything offroad. I’d love to see a Suzuki Jimny type offering, something compact and affordable that starts to dip it’s toes into something like an American Acty.
I always considered myself a Jeep guy having had 5 of them over the years with a few others in my immediate family. The most recent one I owned was a 2014 Cherokee Trailhawk, which was a great vehicle for both on and off road use. My family eventually got too big and I moved to an older three row Sequoia. When the Wagoneer came out, I was excited and planned on getting one until I saw the price and (lack of) capability. When I finally needed to replace the Sequoia last year, I ended up in a used low milage 200 Series Land Cruiser instead. I guess, I've officially moved on.
All of the manufacturers are moving to selling less for a higher average selling price. The unions have helped make this happen as well.
I've also heard where the unions were sabotaging the manufacture of repair parts!
You mean unions with communist roots are destroying free market businesses? That can't be true at least according to them.
Until they build wranglers that the paint doesn’t bubble around the hinges on a $50k plus vehicle- I would never buy one again after owning 7 over the years.
The Cherokee nameplate was replaced, but the vehicle is still here, it is the Wagoneer S that you mentioned .
Great video! I agree with everything you outlined. Wagoneer was always intended to be an aspirational brand so I do think there is a place for the Grand Wagoneer, Wagoneer S, and the the top trim Grand Cherokees to live under the Wagoneer umbrella. However I think the other vehicles in the line up including the Wagoneer need to be more accessible. I think a RWD based small crossover like the old Cherokee would stand out well against the current FWD based vehicles offered by every other manufacturer. I believe the new Stellantis platforms are set up to allow them to be FWD or RWD based and gas or electric so they may have an opportunity to do this.
Also, I’m shocked that Jim Morrison was moved to a parts role. He was an incredible steward of the brand.
Prior owner of 3 Jeeps and 5 RAMs here. As soon as Fiat Stelantis bought and I saw the direction they were going. I have now bought a Lincoln Aviator and Ford F150. F350 is next. I'm not looking back. No Italian company has ever built a car without electrical issues and declining market share in the states. I'm done with all things Stelantis.
Bought my manual 2 door bronco base model for $28.5k put on a set of take offs for another $800 and now have a nice off-road rig with 32in tires for under 30k. Sad to see even ford discontinuing the base model. Not everyone wants to be 40-50k into a vehicle, let alone 60k. So discouraging.
I was recently in the market for a capable vehicle for overlanding and trail driving for access to backcountry spaces and because of the price to capability ratio I overlooked jeep and didn't even consider any of their models.
I love Jeep and when I saw that Gladiator Sideburn Concept, I thought it was so cool but with that being said, their pricepoints are incredibly high. I was lucky to buy my Gladiator Rubicon certified pre-owned at low miles, fully loaded at 44k. Jeep has a lot of potential and I especially love their 392. The Jeep community is also fantastic.