😂 Mate nobody cares Liverpool get the dodgiest decisions in their favour all the time. Serves your fanbase right for gaslighting and lying when it's against other teams.
@@fredjennereveryone who loves football cares. There will be lots of obsessed Liverpool haters like yourself that think it's great but who cares about them.
It is like seeing a mafia. A gang. No one can critize the refs. No one. Not managers. Not pundits. Not players. Not even the retired referees themselves. Hope Liverpool releases the audio and take them to court. About time to outsource referees from abroad.
@nrox8823 Stating what was right and wrong is what he used to do. However, over recent years he seems to have changed tack and is now a de facto brief for refs in the court of public opinion, seemingly always looking to mitigate whenever possible.
Liverpool is correct. This does undermine the integrity of the premier league. I see nothing wrong in Liverpool's statement. A lot of people like me are now suspicious of VAR and refrees...
@@georgewasickanin7933 if not for their own sakes then for the league at large. Referees must be held accountable for small errors to monumental failures. VAR has been shambolic all weekend. The fact it appears there is no oversight to stop "human error" from occurring is scandalous. I do hope LFC don't let this go. Enough is enough.
@@mrb2643 they have at this point two conceivable options. Admit their VAR personnel are woefully inadequate or incompetent; or hide that the match was rigged. The fourth official and both VAR refs were in UAE two days prior. Coincidence?
Never seen anybody look that uncomfortable whilst talking. Stephen was spot on. Who could say anything if they stopped the game once they'd realised and released the audio as soon as the game finished?
@@popo-vt4bjit's part of bot network. Automated network of accounts that spam comments and can be used to mass upvote your comments to the top of the comment section.
@@josephkerrigan733 If they wanted to fix games I doubt they would make it so visible. Would have been easier just to pay off the referee without having video analysis in real time and after the fact
I’d respect the hell out of any ref who would be willing to stand up to the FA’s scrutiny and fix the mistake. The game is NOT ABOUT YOU. They’ve made it entirely about themselves by standing on their manners and protocol. Steve is 100% right here
There won't be any "scrutiny". The PGMOL have already decided, without any investigation, that it was human error. They aren't even asking why THREE of the match officials were "working" in the UAE (the country that own Man City) two days before this game. How much were they paid for this "work" and who paid them?
@@oldbloke135 this is the equivalent of a lawyer getting liquored up at a conference held by the opposition firm, only to accidentally accept a guilty plea for their client a few days later. No attorney who does that isn’t stood before the bar and torn to shreds publicly.
This whole segment had potential to be positive, thought provoking and really interesting. Instead we got 4 people trying their best to not offend anyone. What VAR has done is criminal so unless we are willing to talk about it more open and honestly what’s the point. The retired ref could’ve offered wisdom, advice moving forward, radical changes instead of just trying to protect his tribe.
It's Dermot Gallagher mate. He's brain dead from the feet up...always has been... Don't remember how bad a ref he was?? Perhaps we should ask to see his foundation's bank accounts... PAID OFF LIKE THE REST, NO DOUBT
Everybody makes mistakes, but the idea that there’s no mechanism to rectify ones as big as this as soon as it’s possible to do so is simply unacceptable.
I mean they only had 30 seconds to bring the ball for a free kick to correct it... the audio needs to be released to show these guys as incompetent rather than fraudsters
Diaz's goal, Salah got booked for nothing, it was a foul on him. Robbo got robbed as well, as did Gakpo when he got snapped, the blatent corners denied, VAR intervened and showed only a still of Curtis's challenge, as Jones was being pulled back and actually got to the ball first and there was more controversial decisions, with nefarious actions around them. This is a bad look, it smells of corruption, but no-one will say it.
And Tottenham player (left back) on a yellow waiving the imaginary yellow for jotta’s second yellow… they give yellows for doing so… he should’ve been red carded
@@bipolarminddroppingsWhat about the Man U v Brighton game. The final whistle was blown, the referee decided to give a penalty after the game had ended. According to the International Football Association Board (IFAB), there are no time restrictions for reviewing incidents.
Dermot's a law robot. I'm not a Liverpool fan but they're entirely right. For years they've hidden behind the "we're only human" excuse. It's now obvious that even with the tools, there are too many of them who are entirely incompetent and lack even the most basic common sense or understanding of the wider game. They only understand the rule book and even that they can't apply properly!
@MissMcQueenif the scenario being described is accurate there is no corruption is why 🤦🏻♂️ if the ref thought he was checking if the goal should stand he didn’t need to draw lines it was obvious he was onside and why the check was so quick.
@MissMcQueenAny talk of corruption is fairly ridiculous considering the fact that the audio communication is recorded. So hopefully get to hear the audio if released.
@@tryingtogame8800 We'll have to wait and see why they would refuse to release the audio. If they refuse to release the audio it would only make it worse for PGMOL. Liverpool have already formally requested this audio to be released. So let's wait and see. I hope they release it. I also hope for their sake that it is nothing but a lapse in judgment because anything questionable said in that audio will cause this whole thing to escalate and rightly so.
Dermot stating he disagrees about sporting integrity, but fails to understand that if the process is not being fairly used consistently and it costs teams at the end of the season, like Liverpool missing out on something by a point, the integrity of the competition is affected. Difficult to see how this system was meant to eliminate subjectivity and support referees, but is doing the opposite.
Can we all just remember that lots of bad decisions happened before we had VAR. The question we should be asking is how many bad decisions are made now vs before.
I really don't get how badly they get these easy decisions wrong. Onana pen vs. wolves were so easy, but they got wrong. Diaz offside so easy, but they get wrong
It’s as if it’s more believable cheating/match fixing is involved rather than professionals being highly paid + with the assistance of VAR, are making these mistakes so consistently that incompetence seems too far fetched.
If they had have blown the whistle as soon as they realised which would have been a few seconds after the restart. The ref calls over Klopp and Ange and explains the situation then gives the goal. We would all be applauding. Nobody is angry at a mistake, they are angry at the handling of the mistake.
Once the game is restarted, the rule/law is that you can't go back. The referee would be reprimanded to do such a thing. The only Caveat being that Ange implore the ref to award a goal, but he would have not known what was going on, so that was never going to happen.
@@madam051 VAR isn't the problem. The standard of officiating is and until we remove and replace these incompetent - or worse still potentially corrupt - referees then it's not going to approve.
@@aidangriffiths5075No, it’s not simply the game of football. It’s a multi-billion $€£ industry that employs thousands of people at the elite level. One point can be the difference between champions and who’s relegated. Your attempt to dismiss the problem is simply unacceptable. No real football fan wants this to continue.
By sporting integrity undermined it means you have spoiled Liverpool's chance to go top of the table with the red card, offside goal and 1 wrong yellow card decision on Jota. In a massive game like that these decisions are unforgivable.
And failed to give a yellow to two Tottenham players waving for a booking. Remember when it was a rule that dinged MacAllister a few weeks ago after he got dumped from behind? Well, that "rule" got rescinded. Sort of. Maybe. Who knows?
Its crazy to me, you didnt need any lines it was onside so obviously.... and Diaz what a finish, such a great goal. I think that nobody was even in the VAR room.... its so so bad but clubs have to start fighting these terrible decisions, they can cost teams titles/relegations etc.
They say it's "human error", and we all have sympathy with someone making an honest mistake. But, I think they are avoiding the issue. What are the procedures? What actually happened? If all it takes is someone to slightly mishear something and we get a wrong decision then the issues are much deeper. And why didn't we get the lines drawn to show it was onside? That hasn't been explained. Don't we usually get a picture with the lines drawn, regardless of whether it is eventually called onside or offside?
It is clearly the process. They make so many mistakes and blame human error when it is their application of VAR which leads to so many errors. The leadership is terrible to allow them all to shout over each other while trying to make a decision and they are generally all bad referees with no common sense. We see VAR being used properly in many other competitions and sports. It is English referees who are the problem not VAR
They didn’t draw the lines because they thought it was obviously onside. That’s why he said, “check complete”. Because it was so ‘clearly’ onside, the VAR team thought they gave it as a goal and didn’t realise until later that the linesman had flagged it for offside. The real problem was, why didn’t they highlight this to the referee once they realised the goal wasn’t given. They will argue that once play had restarted (following the freekick) they were powerless to intervene which is the bone of contention, they should have, irrespective of protocol, screamed in the referee’s ears to stop the play and award a goal.
This is not an error, this is them lying. Suppose they are correct in their belief. Why did they put on the screen "disallowed goal" if it was a goal on field? Suppose it's the other way? They believed it was offside on the pitch. Why would they not show the lines as normal? The refs got this wholly wrong. Now the cover up will be worse than the crime. Way worse.
It’s the one thing ex referees and pundits avoid and do not talk about, the standard of refereeing in the English league’s is poor and has been bad for a long time. These Ex refs now pundits cover up the poor refereeing decisions by making up new interpretations to the laws to hide the fact the on field ref got it wrong. The reason VAR doesn’t work is because it’s these on field refs monitoring it. So you have poor performing referees on the pitch being monitored by poor referees off the pitch
Dermot Gallagher's response to "how can the process be improved" shows the mindset and capability of the people who are selected to perform as referees. "Reminding officials of what they're supposed to do" is insufficient. You only have to watch other sports with video refereeing to see that the first step to prevent this from happening again is for the on-field decision to be communicated, so that the VAR officials can check to see whether that is correct. It's not rocket-science!
Yup his answer there was terrible. In fact his answers to most of the points on the screen were vague cringe. Just comes across like a typical virtue signaller in the moment 😅 "this is bad and can't happen again" until it happens again then repeat
to respond to questions like those using the football laws would b difficult for anyone bcz the laws are technical. the process in dealing with VAR is difficult to explain cz England modified it to their liking in comparisons to the rest of the world.
You can stop the game for any reason the ref sees fit ( serious injury for example ) . VAR should have communicated with the referee as soon as it was clear to them the restart wasn't from the centre circle. Those few seconds allows the goal to be given ( correctly ) and the game to re commence.
agree, we have seen freekicks been retaken. As soon as spurs hit the freekick VAR should hav said to stop the game and award the goal. Ref could have blown the whistle 3-5 sec after the game started. it would have been fine.
@@jyeesingwell they break the law when they don't whistle a penalty for clear handballs or wrongly disallowing goals so breaking the law is really not an issue for them.
@@jyeesing The longer you wait to correct the mistake, the worse the outcome will be. I think a the law that was mentioned in the video should be amended so that the referee can stop the game in a similar way it would for mistaken identity, a violent incident or a head or severe injury (cardiac arrest for example) elsewhere on the pitch, if it has been concluded that the VAR has detected a fatal error made by either the on-field ref or the VAR themselves. What would a counterargument for this look like? I can't think of one. I can't see such an amendment being abused, because as of now, referees rarely stop play for any of the other criteria mentioned previously, so why would they for this? I think it's a simple solution. 1. Add the amendment. 2. Enforce a clear style of communication between ref and VAR. Instead of "check complete" -> "Offside. Check over." / "Goal. Check over."
@@FreedomOfTħought very good points. It wud take some amending of the law to make it possible but as it is now, it wudnt av been legal. But imo from wat i kno england hav changed the whole var protocol to suit themselves n made a mockery of the system. How var is used in other parts of the world is not the same in england so the problem lies with the instructions given by the english head of refereeing
The fact that in the past year alone there have been at least 14 decisions bad enough that the refereeing body had to come out and publicly apologise without any repercussions for the same people making the same ‘mistakes’ is insane. Like there’s 14 so bad that they had to come out to apologise, not behind the scenes discussions, public apologies. There have been hundreds of bad decisions and mistakes but the fact that 14 were THAT bad there’s an issue
The integrity of the game is 100% at stake, people are beginning to question if there is corruption in PGMOL because professional refs should not be making so many shocking decisions
I completely agree, 2 VAR refs getting it wrong starts looking very suspicious, especially paired with all the crazy on field decisions that game. I want to believe there was no corruption involved but if something waddles, goes quack quack and swims away it is usually a duck
In light of what has happened with Barcelona recently, I think the integrity of football officiating has to be called into question. I think match fixing should be a topic taken seriously, especially now. There’s so much money depending on football so for people to suggest it’s a crazy idea that people WOULD NOT try to fix the games is bizarre. If Barcelona and juventus can do it then it’s a very real possibility at this point
@@chrisvassiliou889first red under letter is a red,first yellow is a joke undogie goes into jotas path clips his knee then four seconds later clips his own feet 🦶 together and falls over !
@@chrisvassiliou889 Matic on goal? Why would matic be on the pitch for a spurs vs liverpool match? and yes you could argue the rest of the decisions were too. Jones' straight red is never a red (law of game states this), Jota gets first yellow for a player diving, gomez should have got a penalty.
1) The on-field ref simply must tell the VAR officials what the on-field call is. 2) Instead of these "Check complete" ambiguities, they must add "good goal" or "off-side" to the response. Make it "Good goal, Check complete, Good goal", and "Off-side, Check complete, Off-side." 3) When the refs realize a mistake of such magnitude has been made, the ref should be able to stop the game, pull the two managers together, show them the video of why the call was wrong, and correct it to the right decision, 4) Only VAR specialist will do VAR. Don't let the refs rotate between on-field and VAR duties from game to game. 5) The refs and VAR officials who are responsible for this mistake are just as clumsy as Curtis Jones' challenge that got him red-carded. No ill-intend, but clumsiness. The difference is that Jones’ challenge was potentially damaging but this refs’ mistake is proven damaging. If Jones is banned for 3 games, how many games are these VAR officials getting banned? The "gods" at PGMOL must make that transparent if Howard Webb wasn't faking it when he emphasized transparency. 6) At the end of the PL season, if Liverpool misses out on anything by 3 points, or if Tottenham qualifies/wins anything by 3 points, an asterisk needs to be put next to the PL table to indicate the refs' mistake contributes to that final standing. This refs' mistake must be engraved into the PL history forever moving forward.
Dermot doesn't understand the integrity being called into question. Yes he does. He's blindly backing his ref mates. Losing integrity to not even attempt to work out what that statement means. It's actually very clear.
"No way it should happen again" - It DID happen again because it happened against Arsenal in their title race when playing Brentford last season. VAR drew the lines on the wrong player and allowed a clear offside goal.
I really dont know why after they knew a error had been made after a few seconds someone in the VAR office didnt just shout out to the ref and tell him it was the wrong decision and a goal should be awarded, they must of noticed them about to take the free kick surely.
without refs making mistakes football would be a cold boring game, mistakes bring drama and controversy, it creates talking points and im quite happy in 2023 we still have humans in control of a human sport with all the downsides that come with being human. How are we so quick to blame the refs when players dive left right and centre in order to deceive the ref. Its actually tactical to dive these days, see a player coming in to challenge wait for the challenge to actually come in, tap the ball 3 feet further ahead so they were never going to touch it and go down like you just shot in both legs... whats the aim of this, to get that player booked and you a free kick, absolutely no other reason but to deceive the ref and you are actually saying that refs making mistakes all the time is a problem lol
@@paullasky6865 well it is solvable, we remove the human factor completely, have two teams of robots play the game officiated by robots and a mistake will never be made, players wont be diving all over the place screaming like babies to get a player a yellow, the robot officials have laser accurate eyeballs and never miss an offside and the ref never gets tired, never wipes sweat from his brow and never gets a decision wrong... sounds like something i would never want to watch. Its not solvable because as long as its a sport in which humans play and officiate there will be mistakes made, players will always try to deceive the ref, this isn't a game like snooker where players admit to mistakes for sportmanship, its the most unsportsmanlike game in the world and honestly, its all the better for it, we need mistakes made, we need on and off pitch drama, we need refs who are not perfect, its a game.
For me it’s about communication. Firstly, VAR shouldn’t be assuming, they could ask to confirm the on field decision. And secondly, rather than being ambiguous and saying “check complete”, they could say “you can award the goal” or similar. With those small things, VAR knows what the ref thought and then the ref knows what decision VAR has come to.
Exactly why wasn't someone jn var screaming " Simon it's a goal ..goal goal !!!!! Or 4th official who also can hear waving at the ref to say there's been a mistake
Confirming the decision at either end would have resolved this - If VAR had to confirm the onfield decision before checking the goal, or the ref had to confirm VAR's decison this would be a non-event. It should really be both...
One question only: If the VAR didn’t tell anyone through the communication system they were using that they have made a serious error right at the moment they realised they had made a mistake, then this is a problem of integrity. If they speak out immediately, I don’t think the situation cannot be resolved in some way. Now the VARs made the on field ref and the whole system a total joke.
Why don’t fans get to listen to the VAR decision live like we can when listening to the TMO in rugby? It’s clear and straightforward. No need for football to go down this cloak and dagger nonsense.
The idea from the guy with glasses that the referee would have 'allowed' a 'goal' is absolutely ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous idea from an actual adult.
As a Spurs fan, the refereeing in that match was abysmal. The first red card was bonkers, he didnt go in harshly, his foot slipped over the ball and it ended badly. As for the disallowed goal, they should be given it after the fact and the game should be a draw. They need to change the rules so that if a huge error is made, they can fix it.
The first red card was not a bad decision. He’s not in control, and could have ended badly. So that I’d say 50/50 yellow/red. The second red is say the first yellow was harsh but he’s just been warned and knew what he was doing. The second yellow he’s lost his head and let his team down. The offside was terrible, but it is human error. They need to tighten up the process and make sure it doesn’t happen again.
It was a red card, according to what the guidance for a red card is for dangerous play. - Not in control of body - over the top of the ball - Significant impact on opposing player - Potential for causing a significant injury There's almost no difference to several that have been handed out this season. The only difference was that he grazed the top of the ball, and the reason he did is because he lunged in, not in control of his body.
Is PGMOL willing to compensate the damage done to Liverpool in mine personal opinion let the lawyer of Liverpool do the talking cos PGMOL is just simply incompetent Liverpool must seek justice for the fans sake cos they are paying alot of £££££££ to watch the beautiful game ican say justice all the way
@@krishenchetty2536there wasn’t significant impact tho, that’s why these replays need to be shown in full time. In slo Mo yes it looks like a large impact but in real time it’s nothing of the sort
İ lost my confidence in VAR last season. I even heard a commentator say "no guarantee they will draw the lines from the correct angles" and that was last season.
This error is different to other howlers as it isn’t a subjective error the offside is an objective call and therefore is based on fact- goal or no goal. This is why the integrity of the game is being undermined as the VAR knew it was a goal for the whole game but did nothing. It isn’t a judgement which can have differing opinions and therefore the result should really be void (though not sure anyone expects that outcome in reality)
mistakes intenional or otherwise are happening in every game , should the referee get a review at halftime and give a penalty , allow or disallow a goal, It happened , most temas have been at the wrong end of a VAR mistake , why so much talk this time,
@@chrisvassiliou889he said it already…. This is the biggest howler from the refs. EVERYONE should be up in arms over this. It’s not just this week, it’s every week there are ridiculous decisions made. The refs are not up to standard before VAR, and then you introduce a system to help with human error, and then they’re just not paying attention?! Lmao keep trying to act like this is the standard.
@@chrisvassiliou889the difference this time is it's black white and clearly onside. It's not like the VAR reviewers have reviewed it and made the wrong decision. They say they have reviewed it, concluded it's a goal but not communicated this to the referee properly. It's farcical. How could anyone paid to watch and review a game, miss the fact the goal had been ruled out initially? How when they said check complete, could they see Tottenham taking a free kick and not jump in and say "it's a goal, what you doing to the ref". There's not 1 but 2 refs in the VAR room plus countless other people. It's not right, like they weren't even watching the game. Plus they're obviously talking to ref, how was it not discovered they had got their wires crossed. Yes VAR get a lot of decisions wrong but a lot of these still have areas of subjection and usually down to the VAR having a different opinion/interpretation of the rules during that moment. As I said this isn't interpretation, this was black and white he's clearly onside
Stephen is absolutely spot on. Integrity must come first and foremost. Having respectable open discussions between officials, team Management and Captains alike. Officials need to be held accountable just as much as players, management and clubs alike. FA are now being proven to be just as corrupt as FIFA and UEFA.
As a Liverpool fan this decision still makes me wanna cry whenever I see it or think about it. I’m still waiting for PGMOL to give some compensation to my club but I know it will never happen 💔
Been fuming since it happened and don't think anyone will get over it even mutuals lol this might happen again I mean it's 6 games in and there's been outrageous decisions already
Of course it will never happen. Do you know how many times VAR has saved your club. It’s in the name of your club! Jotas boot to skipps face last year comes to mind. They’ve gotten away with plenty it’s about time karma caught them. Var is awful but your not the only victims. Other clubs just get on with it.
@@nathanhenderson4129 Skipp shouldn't have been on the pitch as a matter of fact his horror tackle on Diaz wasn't even given as a foul! We know it swings in roundabouts so let's just leave it there.
@@OriginalNuttah93 I agree that’s what I’m saying. It goes both ways all day long. Fans just can’t cry out now mid season for a replay. Every teams going to want one.
When I make a "mistake" at work it might affect a few people in my team. This "mistake" has massive ramifications for an entire city and millions more. We already had the 21/22 season title decided by a ridiculous VAR gaffe, they can't keep getting away with this
@@Nopostonsundays24 Not in the context of a win or title for Liverpool. We've already seen City win the league in 21/22 due solely to a VAR mistake that grabbed them the league
Dermot Gallagher is completely missing the point with his « it’s a mistake » comment. Too many people involved to simply say that. This wasn’t a one man take. I can’t wait to hear the audio if it gets released. If it isn’t released someone is not telling the truth and integrity is out of the window.
It’s no longer a mistake if it’s done on purpose. The decision is so terrible, I have no other explanation than it was decided maliciously on purpose to not draw the lines on. I’m a United fan as well. The refereeing in this country is pathetic.
They did draw the lines, it was onside, that's why they put the check complete, correct decision. They thought the decision by the ref was a goal. That's the human error. VAR needs to be better run, but what that Liverpool fan is saying about allowing Liverpool to score a goal is ridiculous, would be the end of football if that happens. Countless errors have happened by VAR. This is not the worst one in any stretch. People are only mad because it's liverpool. Who usually get the most points awarded by VAR decisions.
@@RyanHulse-oo1niquestion is though, presumably the VAR team were watching the offside decision. How did they not see what the on field decision was? If VAR has benefitted Liverpool it was because the correct decisions are made. The inverse would seem to indicate decisions tend to go against them. Fans who love the game will not just turn a blind eye when a bad decision benefits their team, fairness and the correct decisions should always be paramount.
This is not just a mistake. It's an absolutely shocking incident that's just beyond belief. Whoever made such a big error as this should be held to account. Players and team managers get carded for bad errors or mistakes they make in games but it seems referees/match officials always get away with it and nothing ever seems to change. When are these officials going to start being held accountable or penalised for their errors and incompetence. And no, Liverpool won't let this one go. Why should they? A big error like this could cost them something like a place in the top 4, the league title etc. VAR has got to learn from this now and make sure that something like this never happens again. Ever!
Simple answer. Dont just say "check complete" , but give the result of the check. If he had said "check complete, onside" or similar then any confusion is highlighted and cleared up
It’s funny how Dermot says that they don’t intentionally make a mistake, buts it’s irrelevant if a player unintentionally makes a bad tackle, like in this very Liverpool game.
What is worst: To just allow the Diaz goal to be disallowed and carry on. Or to just say to the ref when he started the game again on the Diaz goal, that we missunderstood the situation and say it's a goal. What will make most people happy. 100% just say in the ref's ear that we made a mistake and allow the goal, even if he started the game again.
Did you even watch the video? By the time they realised what had happened, the game had restarted and at that point there is nothing the refs can do. They cant just make up their own rules.
They found the same issue with Co-pilot’s not questioning the Pilot even leading to their own deaths. They had to change the mindsets of ‘leader’ to ‘lead’ and reduced the issues greatly. 4:20
You don't want to look like the bad guy with your colleague I'm sure that's what happens most of the time if In this case they were not distracted by something
The way to lower the chance of this happening again is for the Ref in the VAR position to name his decision clearly i.e "Offside" or "Goal". Rather than "Check Complete".
PGMOL think they have more authority than god. I’ve never seen anything like it in any profession, especially with so much money involved. Extremely shady behavior
For PL this is a catastrofic. This is a league with so many good teams you can win or loose by a point so this can absolutely never ever happen. Especially with 2 people controlling it. I guess the assistent is there for safety reasons. Sorry aint gonna cut it. You just cant trust the desicions anymore..
Liverpool said they also want investigation into why the same 3 officials were in UAE the day before and then allowed to officiate the biggest game of the weekend the next day where they have inadvertently or otherwise made mistakes to benefit a club run by UAE.
Once the game has started again and within a few seconds they realised the mistake and that the goal wasn't given why could they not just intervene. There is literally no excuse for not intervening, the stopped the game when there is an head injury even if the opposition is on the attack. There is no excuse they can give that makes any sense.
Imagine how they felt sitting there knowing we'd see the mistake eventually. I bet there was a row about telling the ref or saying nothing. This included with the mcallister red being rescinded and the AR elbow last year are fuel for tinfoil hat wearers but can't be ignored.
@@martinhartecfc it's an unbelievably unique situation. No one would have said anything about the rules if they had stopped the game. Isn't it also a rule that if a goal is onside then it should be given
This could potentially shape the league come end of this season. This incident will still be the talking point once the season ends. If liverpool lose the title even by goal difference, they would be absolutely fuming
Only because it's Liverpool. Spurs lost the champions league final with the first goal being a non-penalty - the handball rules were changed immediately after. Sheffield United had a goal disallowed vs Villa, which meant they were RELEGATED that season as a result of that game. Obviously this is a huge, huge error. But all the talk of replaying the game is complete nonsense
@@leecolburn7849Origis goal was late in the 2nd half. Liverpools early penalty changed the entire game as Spurs faced 2 banks of 5 for the entire match. Origis goal is irrelevant.
I understand the point about the correct application of the laws of the game negating the referee from being able to nullify the mistake. However, the rules were not applied in the VAR room. Surely in that instance you have to “break” the rules to right a wrong.
It's a question of precedence/antecedent, referees (VAR) have never gone back on a decision. It's like an unwritten rule, a blue wall like the police culture.
even as a LFC, 2 wrongs don't make 1 right. game is over, but there are many more to play, and we want the refs to be at their best for those games and not make these mistakes again. a sorry isnt enough there needs to be some actionable change from the PGMOL
@@gabrielalohan728 Surely though if it can be clearly proven that a wrong decision/judgment had been made, shouldn't that be rectified in some way? Teams and fans don't like to feel aggrieved. Moreover, rules/laws are, rightly or wrongly, constantly being reviewed and changed "to improve the game". Therefore, shouldn't a provision for such an occurrence be incorporated into the rules/laws of the game, as a means of safeguarding the integrity of the game? Shouldn't they perhaps do something like this: stop the clock, approach the two managers (and the two captains) to explain what has happened, post a message on the screen for the fans to see, award a goal, or retract it, depending on what the error/grievance may have been, and then restart the clock and the game.
@@bragekv9937 I agree. I’m just saying it shouldn’t have even got to this point, very much as Warnock is saying in the video, and should have been rectified shortly after the miscommunication/mistake had been realised. The rules prohibit that, but as the rules weren’t applied in the VAR room, this excuse of abiding to the rules shouldn’t hold water.
He says it absolutely can't happen again, but it will. It will happen again because they aren't willing to change. All they care about is how they can protect themselves. VAR needs to be an independent body that isn't a part of PGMOL.
I take it you know all the referees personally? And have spoken to them many times, to know their intimate thoughts so well. They messed up. They admitted they messed up. The rules need to be changed, the process needs to be improved, but its not because the refs are corrupt and only care about themselves. They dont make the rules, they just enforce them.
@@bipolarminddroppings Why would I need to know them personally? Unless the rules change and an independent body starts to review ref decisions, we'll keep seeing these mistakes. The history is there, it's all evidence based.
Gallagher is talking like he's personally involved as a Referee. He's NOT. He's not there to REPRESENT referees still. He's there to give his informed opinion on decisions current referees make. It's not personal against him for crying out loud.
Simple way to avoid this happening again in future if for the VAR to say "Award the Goal" or "Disallow the Goal" rather than "Check Complete" like they do in Rugby League when a try is referred!!
The problem here is process and communication. The discussions held between officials in rugby is a perfect example of how to do it. There is also transparency as that discussion is televised.
I've never once heard Dermot say something different from what's obvious yet they bring him on for his insight. Having a referee ego is crazy 💀literally no one cares that much, you are a ref bro
I’ve heard a few VAR convos and they’re always in communication. It’s one thing to miss that the on field ref signaled Offsides visually but we were told that any call is relayed. Ex “flag up, that’s offsides, please check to verify) even if they missed it visually but also via audio is ridiculous
The strange thing is VAR worked just fine for Curtis Jones red card when showing the referee a still photo of the tackle when that is not supposed to happen?
Two red cards, a rightful goal unfairly disallowed, another unfair yellow card, two Spurs players who should have gotten a yellow card which would have led to red (making the card gesture), own goal. Nobody from the on field referee to linesmen to VAR team gets a let off for me
It's not human error. I can't believe they are saying they thought the goal was given when we all know the ref and linesman are communicating with VAR officials. Absolutely embarrassing to think the public would go along with this nonsense. It's blatantly obvious what's going on.
the incident happened on the 34th minute , to early to affect the result , you never know how teams can respond . By next week we will talk about something else
This goes beyond club loyalty. This isnt even about Liverpool's or any one club. These jokers are literally ruining our game.
😂 Mate nobody cares Liverpool get the dodgiest decisions in their favour all the time. Serves your fanbase right for gaslighting and lying when it's against other teams.
@@fredjennereveryone who loves football cares.
There will be lots of obsessed Liverpool haters like yourself that think it's great but who cares about them.
@@115MaTTy be more triggered 😂
@@fredjenner Who's triggered kid? lol
@@fredjennerso you think VAR has improved the game or made it worse?
Dermont’s job is not to defend the referees, it’s to tell us what’s wrong and right. Someone needs to make sure he knows that
EXACTLY! He's there to give his informed opinion on decisions current referees make. It's not personal against him for crying out loud.
Exactly
He feels a sense of loyalty to his profession and ex colleagues and feels retired not ex. I think it's fair enough and shows he has honour about him.
It is like seeing a mafia. A gang. No one can critize the refs. No one. Not managers. Not pundits. Not players. Not even the retired referees themselves. Hope Liverpool releases the audio and take them to court.
About time to outsource referees from abroad.
@nrox8823 Stating what was right and wrong is what he used to do. However, over recent years he seems to have changed tack and is now a de facto brief for refs in the court of public opinion, seemingly always looking to mitigate whenever possible.
Warnock did one hell of a job here, he expressed every fan's viewpoint perfectly
When being questioned Dermot always looks like he’s thinking “how am I going to get my boys out of this one!?”
It's so annoying man
Yep, old boys club. Closing ranks.
That's the only reason he's on the show. Deny deny deny
Liverpool is correct. This does undermine the integrity of the premier league. I see nothing wrong in Liverpool's statement. A lot of people like me are now suspicious of VAR and refrees...
If it looks like a cover-up and smells like a cover-up...
Imagine if Liverpool now loses the league by one point. Liverpool need to sue
@@georgewasickanin7933 if not for their own sakes then for the league at large. Referees must be held accountable for small errors to monumental failures.
VAR has been shambolic all weekend. The fact it appears there is no oversight to stop "human error" from occurring is scandalous.
I do hope LFC don't let this go. Enough is enough.
Sports betting rigged.. this a business and money and this game was an eye opener for blatantly being rigged
@@mrb2643 they have at this point two conceivable options. Admit their VAR personnel are woefully inadequate or incompetent; or hide that the match was rigged. The fourth official and both VAR refs were in UAE two days prior. Coincidence?
Dermot protecting his fellow Referees 😢
Howard "ManYoo" Webb should be sacked
@@tf2368for what 😅😅
Never seen anybody look that uncomfortable whilst talking. Stephen was spot on. Who could say anything if they stopped the game once they'd realised and released the audio as soon as the game finished?
I cannot understand his lacking of understanding. He should know what he is on about
It wasn’t just one mistake but plenty of ridiculous decisions.
VAR and the ref was an absolute disgrace.
@@oli3028 wat
Like what? Over reaching much...
@@popo-vt4bjit's part of bot network. Automated network of accounts that spam comments and can be used to mass upvote your comments to the top of the comment section.
There needs to be bribery and corruption investigation, these decisions happen way too often.
@@fredjenneryou’re the bot
All premier clubs should get behind this, it is not just a Liverpool issue.
VAR shouldn't be used for subjective stuff. Automated offside and goal line tech is all that's needed.
@@paullasky6865 They've invested too much money and want the ability to fix games when they want. VAR is here to stay for as long as the FA exists.
@@josephkerrigan733 If they wanted to fix games I doubt they would make it so visible. Would have been easier just to pay off the referee without having video analysis in real time and after the fact
Should have been like this when it happened to Arsenal last season.
Exactly, they should form their own league, only then will the EPL learn.
Even as a City fan I have to feel for liverpool on this. Refereeing in England has been shocking for years.
And it impacts all of us!
Its not a mistake if they keep doing it every week
What's the alternative? Stop accusing if you cannot propose an alternative. 🍈
@@tyrant_hermit get someone else who’s going to do a better job than this. Thats an alternative
@@tyrant_hermit getting it right first time is literally the alternative. Thats why referees get 100 replays
@@tyrant_hermit The alternative is to either get better staff with on pitch experience, or go the machine learning route.
@@tyrant_hermitYou’re just a pawn 🐑
I’d respect the hell out of any ref who would be willing to stand up to the FA’s scrutiny and fix the mistake. The game is NOT ABOUT YOU. They’ve made it entirely about themselves by standing on their manners and protocol. Steve is 100% right here
Well said Bobby 💯
But robots follow protocol. Perhaps we should get some humans in for this role
There won't be any "scrutiny". The PGMOL have already decided, without any investigation, that it was human error. They aren't even asking why THREE of the match officials were "working" in the UAE (the country that own Man City) two days before this game. How much were they paid for this "work" and who paid them?
@@oldbloke135 this is the equivalent of a lawyer getting liquored up at a conference held by the opposition firm, only to accidentally accept a guilty plea for their client a few days later. No attorney who does that isn’t stood before the bar and torn to shreds publicly.
@@toiletcomputer😂😂😂 your bad
This whole segment had potential to be positive, thought provoking and really interesting.
Instead we got 4 people trying their best to not offend anyone. What VAR has done is criminal so unless we are willing to talk about it more open and honestly what’s the point.
The retired ref could’ve offered wisdom, advice moving forward, radical changes instead of just trying to protect his tribe.
Think the dude with the khaki pants did a good job of playing Devil's advocate, but Sky Sports have their own agenda.
@@TottoHolm because he's the only former player
It's Dermot Gallagher mate. He's brain dead from the feet up...always has been...
Don't remember how bad a ref he was?? Perhaps we should ask to see his foundation's bank accounts...
PAID OFF LIKE THE REST, NO DOUBT
Dermot wouldn’t understand integrity if it sat on his face
😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂
Good one 😅😂
Unreal 😭
Everybody makes mistakes, but the idea that there’s no mechanism to rectify ones as big as this as soon as it’s possible to do so is simply unacceptable.
I think the rules are that once play resumes, that's it, they cant then change the decision.
@@bipolarminddroppings yeah, seems so. Hopefully this situation will change that, as it’s a ludicrous rule.
I mean they only had 30 seconds to bring the ball for a free kick to correct it... the audio needs to be released to show these guys as incompetent rather than fraudsters
Mistakes can happen. But we're talking multiple unlikely mistakes COMPOUNDING. How can that stuff happen? There is a check for a check.
Diaz's goal, Salah got booked for nothing, it was a foul on him.
Robbo got robbed as well, as did Gakpo when he got snapped, the blatent corners denied, VAR intervened and showed only a still of Curtis's challenge, as Jones was being pulled back and actually got to the ball first and there was more controversial decisions, with nefarious actions around them.
This is a bad look, it smells of corruption, but no-one will say it.
Totally agree with you
No corruption just incompetence
Should have been at least ten red cards for Spurs.
@@chrisking8579incompetence may be when theres only one player, and when is not repetition
And Tottenham player (left back) on a yellow waiving the imaginary yellow for jotta’s second yellow… they give yellows for doing so… he should’ve been red carded
They chose to not award the goal even after they knew they made a mistake. That was less than a minute after. That's the worst part.
The game had already restarted. The refs cant just make up rules.
The FA need to change the rules so that huge errors can be corrected.
@@bipolarminddroppingsWhat about the Man U v Brighton game. The final whistle was blown, the referee decided to give a penalty after the game had ended.
According to the International Football Association Board (IFAB), there are no time restrictions for reviewing incidents.
@@bipolarminddroppingsthey have brought players back onto the pitch after the final whistle with players already down the tunnel 🤷♂️
@@bipolarminddroppingsthey already broke the rules by disallowing a legitimate goal.
@@nandopatochthere are specific rules for penalties being awarded. You’re comparing apples and oranges here
Dermot's a law robot. I'm not a Liverpool fan but they're entirely right. For years they've hidden behind the "we're only human" excuse. It's now obvious that even with the tools, there are too many of them who are entirely incompetent and lack even the most basic common sense or understanding of the wider game. They only understand the rule book and even that they can't apply properly!
They don't even understand the book bc then man utd wouldn't have been awarded a penalty against brighton after game ended and players walked off.
This is not just a mistake, it is straight up MATCH FIXING at the highest level
@MissMcQueenif the scenario being described is accurate there is no corruption is why 🤦🏻♂️ if the ref thought he was checking if the goal should stand he didn’t need to draw lines it was obvious he was onside and why the check was so quick.
@MissMcQueenAny talk of corruption is fairly ridiculous considering the fact that the audio communication is recorded. So hopefully get to hear the audio if released.
@@FreedomOfTħoughtand what if we dont get tp hear the audio then what?
@@tryingtogame8800 We'll have to wait and see why they would refuse to release the audio. If they refuse to release the audio it would only make it worse for PGMOL. Liverpool have already formally requested this audio to be released. So let's wait and see. I hope they release it. I also hope for their sake that it is nothing but a lapse in judgment because anything questionable said in that audio will cause this whole thing to escalate and rightly so.
@@FreedomOfTħoughtcoping much?
Dermot stating he disagrees about sporting integrity, but fails to understand that if the process is not being fairly used consistently and it costs teams at the end of the season, like Liverpool missing out on something by a point, the integrity of the competition is affected. Difficult to see how this system was meant to eliminate subjectivity and support referees, but is doing the opposite.
Hes just a PGMOL stooge, incapable of independent thought that would contravene the word of his previous employers
He literally said he doesn't understand that statement about integrity 😂😂😂
He knows, he's playing dumb.
Same guy made poor decision against LFC last time too.
So is there integrity?
@@stnbch3025 It was when he said that he doesn’t understand what they mean by integrity that I realised he really is an English referee.
Can we all just remember that lots of bad decisions happened before we had VAR. The question we should be asking is how many bad decisions are made now vs before.
I really don't get how badly they get these easy decisions wrong. Onana pen vs. wolves were so easy, but they got wrong. Diaz offside so easy, but they get wrong
It’s as if it’s more believable cheating/match fixing is involved rather than professionals being highly paid + with the assistance of VAR, are making these mistakes so consistently that incompetence seems too far fetched.
Also Garnacho goals vs Arsenal. Hand ball of Palace in the box vs Utd. Ton of mistakes
@FF-oo8nz yh garnacho one was offside, its not about your team but its about football
@@SR-tl8fv he wasn't tough
@@FF-oo8nz ok
If they had have blown the whistle as soon as they realised which would have been a few seconds after the restart. The ref calls over Klopp and Ange and explains the situation then gives the goal. We would all be applauding. Nobody is angry at a mistake, they are angry at the handling of the mistake.
Even just calling up the captains
Once the game is restarted, the rule/law is that you can't go back. The referee would be reprimanded to do such a thing. The only Caveat being that Ange implore the ref to award a goal, but he would have not known what was going on, so that was never going to happen.
Wow Dermot criticising a decision, I never thought I’d see the day
Still trying to defend it though by saying 'mistakes happen all the time' 😅😅
@@madam051 VAR isn't the problem. The standard of officiating is and until we remove and replace these incompetent - or worse still potentially corrupt - referees then it's not going to approve.
Not fully though is he he’s still giving the generic neutral answers aswell and sitting on the fence a bit
Bet he'd defend the decision if PGMOL didn't come out and apologise
You can only lie for so long
6/7 people making a mistake at the same time? That's no mistake
The exact problem with VAR:
"Somebody should have been checking that VAR was correct."
It’s not a mistake, it’s a catastrophe
It's a mistake, its a game of football. Relax
The earthquake in turkey was a catastrophe. This is a football game
@@aidangriffiths5075No, it’s not simply the game of football. It’s a multi-billion $€£ industry that employs thousands of people at the elite level. One point can be the difference between champions and who’s relegated. Your attempt to dismiss the problem is simply unacceptable. No real football fan wants this to continue.
@@NoContextRDHit’s not just a game though, it’s a business
@@aidangriffiths5075 it's not a mistake when it's always occuring they affect lots of teams and sorry everytime is just not gonna cut it
By sporting integrity undermined it means you have spoiled Liverpool's chance to go top of the table with the red card, offside goal and 1 wrong yellow card decision on Jota. In a massive game like that these decisions are unforgivable.
And failed to give a yellow to two Tottenham players waving for a booking.
Remember when it was a rule that dinged MacAllister a few weeks ago after he got dumped from behind? Well, that "rule" got rescinded. Sort of. Maybe. Who knows?
It means the match was fixed
They should be saying "Off side" or "On side" Not "Check complete". It is systematic error.
Dermot still can’t help himself trying to have common sense. Protecting his mates as much as he can.
Referees been paid of same as in Qatar vs Ecuador.
His mates being Liverpool.
"common sense"
Yep. Old boys club.
Its crazy to me, you didnt need any lines it was onside so obviously.... and Diaz what a finish, such a great goal. I think that nobody was even in the VAR room.... its so so bad but clubs have to start fighting these terrible decisions, they can cost teams titles/relegations etc.
They knew it was onside, there was a miscommunication between VAR and the Ref
@@mikeed264 people miscommunicated that's 4 different brains 8 different eyes and ears. That's crazy
It wasn’t just a mistake it was a horrific event
It’s only football fella
They say it's "human error", and we all have sympathy with someone making an honest mistake. But, I think they are avoiding the issue. What are the procedures? What actually happened? If all it takes is someone to slightly mishear something and we get a wrong decision then the issues are much deeper. And why didn't we get the lines drawn to show it was onside? That hasn't been explained. Don't we usually get a picture with the lines drawn, regardless of whether it is eventually called onside or offside?
It is clearly the process. They make so many mistakes and blame human error when it is their application of VAR which leads to so many errors. The leadership is terrible to allow them all to shout over each other while trying to make a decision and they are generally all bad referees with no common sense. We see VAR being used properly in many other competitions and sports. It is English referees who are the problem not VAR
It is a clearly corrupt match-fixing
There's no error, they just cheated. People are really doing mental gymnastics to make it seem like an errorr
They didn’t draw the lines because they thought it was obviously onside.
That’s why he said, “check complete”.
Because it was so ‘clearly’ onside, the VAR team thought they gave it as a goal and didn’t realise until later that the linesman had flagged it for offside.
The real problem was, why didn’t they highlight this to the referee once they realised the goal wasn’t given.
They will argue that once play had restarted (following the freekick) they were powerless to intervene which is the bone of contention, they should have, irrespective of protocol, screamed in the referee’s ears to stop the play and award a goal.
This is not an error, this is them lying.
Suppose they are correct in their belief. Why did they put on the screen "disallowed goal" if it was a goal on field?
Suppose it's the other way? They believed it was offside on the pitch. Why would they not show the lines as normal?
The refs got this wholly wrong. Now the cover up will be worse than the crime. Way worse.
The problem isn’t just this wrong decision, it’s all of them that they are making week in week out which is a disgrace
Multiple wrong decisions in this one match alone plus a huge number this season for all clubs indeed. Disgraceful.
It’s the one thing ex referees and pundits avoid and do not talk about, the standard of refereeing in the English league’s is poor and has been bad for a long time. These Ex refs now pundits cover up the poor refereeing decisions by making up new interpretations to the laws to hide the fact the on field ref got it wrong. The reason VAR doesn’t work is because it’s these on field refs monitoring it. So you have poor performing referees on the pitch being monitored by poor referees off the pitch
When players did mistakes they’ll get red card
When referees did mistakes
Its just happened 😢
they did get dropped from officiating the next match at least though
Not true though, they can even get relegated, thought it was harsh what happened to Uriah Rennie.
@@smartgenes1 please do give us your apology when they DONT officiate this weekend....
Dermot Gallagher's response to "how can the process be improved" shows the mindset and capability of the people who are selected to perform as referees.
"Reminding officials of what they're supposed to do" is insufficient.
You only have to watch other sports with video refereeing to see that the first step to prevent this from happening again is for the on-field decision to be communicated, so that the VAR officials can check to see whether that is correct. It's not rocket-science!
Yup his answer there was terrible. In fact his answers to most of the points on the screen were vague cringe. Just comes across like a typical virtue signaller in the moment 😅 "this is bad and can't happen again" until it happens again then repeat
to respond to questions like those using the football laws would b difficult for anyone bcz the laws are technical. the process in dealing with VAR is difficult to explain cz England modified it to their liking in comparisons to the rest of the world.
You can stop the game for any reason the ref sees fit ( serious injury for example ) . VAR should have communicated with the referee as soon as it was clear to them the restart wasn't from the centre circle. Those few seconds allows the goal to be given ( correctly ) and the game to re commence.
agree, we have seen freekicks been retaken. As soon as spurs hit the freekick VAR should hav said to stop the game and award the goal. Ref could have blown the whistle 3-5 sec after the game started. it would have been fine.
technically u can't do that. it would av fixed the goal issue but the referees would breaking another law
@@jyeesingwell they break the law when they don't whistle a penalty for clear handballs or wrongly disallowing goals so breaking the law is really not an issue for them.
@@jyeesing The longer you wait to correct the mistake, the worse the outcome will be.
I think a the law that was mentioned in the video should be amended so that the referee can stop the game in a similar way it would for mistaken identity, a violent incident or a head or severe injury (cardiac arrest for example) elsewhere on the pitch, if it has been concluded that the VAR has detected a fatal error made by either the on-field ref or the VAR themselves. What would a counterargument for this look like? I can't think of one. I can't see such an amendment being abused, because as of now, referees rarely stop play for any of the other criteria mentioned previously, so why would they for this? I think it's a simple solution.
1. Add the amendment.
2. Enforce a clear style of communication between ref and VAR. Instead of "check complete" -> "Offside. Check over." / "Goal. Check over."
@@FreedomOfTħought very good points. It wud take some amending of the law to make it possible but as it is now, it wudnt av been legal. But imo from wat i kno england hav changed the whole var protocol to suit themselves n made a mockery of the system. How var is used in other parts of the world is not the same in england so the problem lies with the instructions given by the english head of refereeing
The fact that in the past year alone there have been at least 14 decisions bad enough that the refereeing body had to come out and publicly apologise without any repercussions for the same people making the same ‘mistakes’ is insane. Like there’s 14 so bad that they had to come out to apologise, not behind the scenes discussions, public apologies. There have been hundreds of bad decisions and mistakes but the fact that 14 were THAT bad there’s an issue
The issue is match fixing.
The integrity of the game is 100% at stake, people are beginning to question if there is corruption in PGMOL because professional refs should not be making so many shocking decisions
Refs literally control the game. If you didn’t know. It’s become a show. Like WWE.
I completely agree, 2 VAR refs getting it wrong starts looking very suspicious, especially paired with all the crazy on field decisions that game. I want to believe there was no corruption involved but if something waddles, goes quack quack and swims away it is usually a duck
In light of what has happened with Barcelona recently, I think the integrity of football officiating has to be called into question.
I think match fixing should be a topic taken seriously, especially now. There’s so much money depending on football so for people to suggest it’s a crazy idea that people WOULD NOT try to fix the games is bizarre.
If Barcelona and juventus can do it then it’s a very real possibility at this point
well said..
suppose all sending off and Diaz goal disallowed was fix , was the Matic own goal fixed too
Referees been paid of same as in Qatar vs Ecuador.
@@chrisvassiliou889first red under letter is a red,first yellow is a joke undogie goes into jotas path clips his knee then four seconds later clips his own feet 🦶 together and falls over !
@@chrisvassiliou889 Matic on goal? Why would matic be on the pitch for a spurs vs liverpool match?
and yes you could argue the rest of the decisions were too. Jones' straight red is never a red (law of game states this), Jota gets first yellow for a player diving, gomez should have got a penalty.
1) The on-field ref simply must tell the VAR officials what the on-field call is.
2) Instead of these "Check complete" ambiguities, they must add "good goal" or "off-side" to the response. Make it "Good goal, Check complete, Good goal", and "Off-side, Check complete, Off-side."
3) When the refs realize a mistake of such magnitude has been made, the ref should be able to stop the game, pull the two managers together, show them the video of why the call was wrong, and correct it to the right decision,
4) Only VAR specialist will do VAR. Don't let the refs rotate between on-field and VAR duties from game to game.
5) The refs and VAR officials who are responsible for this mistake are just as clumsy as Curtis Jones' challenge that got him red-carded. No ill-intend, but clumsiness. The difference is that Jones’ challenge was potentially damaging but this refs’ mistake is proven damaging. If Jones is banned for 3 games, how many games are these VAR officials getting banned? The "gods" at PGMOL must make that transparent if Howard Webb wasn't faking it when he emphasized transparency.
6) At the end of the PL season, if Liverpool misses out on anything by 3 points, or if Tottenham qualifies/wins anything by 3 points, an asterisk needs to be put next to the PL table to indicate the refs' mistake contributes to that final standing. This refs' mistake must be engraved into the PL history forever moving forward.
Dermot doesn't understand the integrity being called into question. Yes he does. He's blindly backing his ref mates. Losing integrity to not even attempt to work out what that statement means. It's actually very clear.
I respect you massively for noting that.
"No way it should happen again" - It DID happen again because it happened against Arsenal in their title race when playing Brentford last season. VAR drew the lines on the wrong player and allowed a clear offside goal.
Wasn't that when the VAR forgot to draw the lines?
Was that not allowing an offside goal to stand and not an onside goal to be disallowed.???
@@MadmanMario I think they drew them on the wrong passage of play, didn't take it from the pass the led to the goal
I really dont know why after they knew a error had been made after a few seconds someone in the VAR office didnt just shout out to the ref and tell him it was the wrong decision and a goal should be awarded,
they must of noticed them about to take the free kick surely.
“Referees make mistakes all the time” that in itself is the problem
without refs making mistakes football would be a cold boring game, mistakes bring drama and controversy, it creates talking points and im quite happy in 2023 we still have humans in control of a human sport with all the downsides that come with being human. How are we so quick to blame the refs when players dive left right and centre in order to deceive the ref. Its actually tactical to dive these days, see a player coming in to challenge wait for the challenge to actually come in, tap the ball 3 feet further ahead so they were never going to touch it and go down like you just shot in both legs... whats the aim of this, to get that player booked and you a free kick, absolutely no other reason but to deceive the ref and you are actually saying that refs making mistakes all the time is a problem lol
A lot of it is subjective. It isn't solvable.
@@paullasky6865 well it is solvable, we remove the human factor completely, have two teams of robots play the game officiated by robots and a mistake will never be made, players wont be diving all over the place screaming like babies to get a player a yellow, the robot officials have laser accurate eyeballs and never miss an offside and the ref never gets tired, never wipes sweat from his brow and never gets a decision wrong...
sounds like something i would never want to watch. Its not solvable because as long as its a sport in which humans play and officiate there will be mistakes made, players will always try to deceive the ref, this isn't a game like snooker where players admit to mistakes for sportmanship, its the most unsportsmanlike game in the world and honestly, its all the better for it, we need mistakes made, we need on and off pitch drama, we need refs who are not perfect, its a game.
That's why VAR is here to eliminate referee mistake, but VAR created another referee mistake. This is getting more and more bizarre....
This is match fixing and they trying to cover it up...there should be a full criminal investigation
For me it’s about communication. Firstly, VAR shouldn’t be assuming, they could ask to confirm the on field decision. And secondly, rather than being ambiguous and saying “check complete”, they could say “you can award the goal” or similar. With those small things, VAR knows what the ref thought and then the ref knows what decision VAR has come to.
Exactly why wasn't someone jn var screaming " Simon it's a goal ..goal goal !!!!!
Or 4th official who also can hear waving at the ref to say there's been a mistake
Referees been paid of same as in Qatar vs Ecuador.
Release the conversation audio between the reff and VAR
Confirming the decision at either end would have resolved this - If VAR had to confirm the onfield decision before checking the goal, or the ref had to confirm VAR's decison this would be a non-event. It should really be both...
As a test they should 13year olds to run VAR. I'm confident there would be more common sense than these current monkeys ruining the show.
One question only: If the VAR didn’t tell anyone through the communication system they were using that they have made a serious error right at the moment they realised they had made a mistake, then this is a problem of integrity. If they speak out immediately, I don’t think the situation cannot be resolved in some way. Now the VARs made the on field ref and the whole system a total joke.
Why don’t fans get to listen to the VAR decision live like we can when listening to the TMO in rugby? It’s clear and straightforward. No need for football to go down this cloak and dagger nonsense.
Because there’s clearly something sinister going on.
It’s not a mistake. They didn’t even draw the lines and check it. They just allowed what was called on the field.
The idea from the guy with glasses that the referee would have 'allowed' a 'goal' is absolutely ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous idea from an actual adult.
"I dont understand what that means " yeah that's the problem Dermot👍
Im surprised Dermot didn't try and say they got it right, he usually does
Nah he still disgraced himself, I dONt unDERStAnD lIVerpOoLs STaTement
but we heard the audio, they spoke and said that Liverpool had scored and ended saying its to late to stop the game
As a Spurs fan, the refereeing in that match was abysmal. The first red card was bonkers, he didnt go in harshly, his foot slipped over the ball and it ended badly.
As for the disallowed goal, they should be given it after the fact and the game should be a draw.
They need to change the rules so that if a huge error is made, they can fix it.
Red card all day long
The first red card was not a bad decision. He’s not in control, and could have ended badly. So that I’d say 50/50 yellow/red.
The second red is say the first yellow was harsh but he’s just been warned and knew what he was doing. The second yellow he’s lost his head and let his team down.
The offside was terrible, but it is human error. They need to tighten up the process and make sure it doesn’t happen again.
It was a red card, according to what the guidance for a red card is for dangerous play.
- Not in control of body
- over the top of the ball
- Significant impact on opposing player
- Potential for causing a significant injury
There's almost no difference to several that have been handed out this season. The only difference was that he grazed the top of the ball, and the reason he did is because he lunged in, not in control of his body.
Is PGMOL willing to compensate the damage done to Liverpool in mine personal opinion let the lawyer of Liverpool do the talking cos PGMOL is just simply incompetent Liverpool must seek justice for the fans sake cos they are paying alot of £££££££ to watch the beautiful game ican say justice all the way
@@krishenchetty2536there wasn’t significant impact tho, that’s why these replays need to be shown in full time. In slo Mo yes it looks like a large impact but in real time it’s nothing of the sort
Dermot makes sitting on the fence into an art form
İ lost my confidence in VAR last season. I even heard a commentator say "no guarantee they will draw the lines from the correct angles" and that was last season.
This error is different to other howlers as it isn’t a subjective error the offside is an objective call and therefore is based on fact- goal or no goal. This is why the integrity of the game is being undermined as the VAR knew it was a goal for the whole game but did nothing. It isn’t a judgement which can have differing opinions and therefore the result should really be void (though not sure anyone expects that outcome in reality)
mistakes intenional or otherwise are happening in every game , should the referee get a review at halftime and give a penalty , allow or disallow a goal, It happened , most temas have been at the wrong end of a VAR mistake , why so much talk this time,
Pedro mendes goal Vs man United.
@@chrisvassiliou889he said it already…. This is the biggest howler from the refs. EVERYONE should be up in arms over this. It’s not just this week, it’s every week there are ridiculous decisions made. The refs are not up to standard before VAR, and then you introduce a system to help with human error, and then they’re just not paying attention?! Lmao keep trying to act like this is the standard.
@@chrisvassiliou889the difference this time is it's black white and clearly onside. It's not like the VAR reviewers have reviewed it and made the wrong decision. They say they have reviewed it, concluded it's a goal but not communicated this to the referee properly. It's farcical. How could anyone paid to watch and review a game, miss the fact the goal had been ruled out initially? How when they said check complete, could they see Tottenham taking a free kick and not jump in and say "it's a goal, what you doing to the ref". There's not 1 but 2 refs in the VAR room plus countless other people. It's not right, like they weren't even watching the game. Plus they're obviously talking to ref, how was it not discovered they had got their wires crossed. Yes VAR get a lot of decisions wrong but a lot of these still have areas of subjection and usually down to the VAR having a different opinion/interpretation of the rules during that moment. As I said this isn't interpretation, this was black and white he's clearly onside
@@chrisvassiliou889 This isn't a blameless mistake. It's guilty of incompetence.
Stephen is absolutely spot on. Integrity must come first and foremost.
Having respectable open discussions between officials, team Management and Captains alike.
Officials need to be held accountable just as much as players, management and clubs alike.
FA are now being proven to be just as corrupt as FIFA and UEFA.
As a Liverpool fan this decision still makes me wanna cry whenever I see it or think about it. I’m still waiting for PGMOL to give some compensation to my club but I know it will never happen 💔
Been fuming since it happened and don't think anyone will get over it even mutuals lol this might happen again I mean it's 6 games in and there's been outrageous decisions already
i think PGMOL shd be penalised with a fee since points have already been dropped
Of course it will never happen. Do you know how many times VAR has saved your club. It’s in the name of your club! Jotas boot to skipps face last year comes to mind. They’ve gotten away with plenty it’s about time karma caught them. Var is awful but your not the only victims. Other clubs just get on with it.
@@nathanhenderson4129 Skipp shouldn't have been on the pitch as a matter of fact his horror tackle on Diaz wasn't even given as a foul! We know it swings in roundabouts so let's just leave it there.
@@OriginalNuttah93 I agree that’s what I’m saying. It goes both ways all day long. Fans just can’t cry out now mid season for a replay. Every teams going to want one.
This is not just a mistake by one human. This is complete system breakdown
Wahhhh wahhh wahhhh
When I make a "mistake" at work it might affect a few people in my team.
This "mistake" has massive ramifications for an entire city and millions more.
We already had the 21/22 season title decided by a ridiculous VAR gaffe, they can't keep getting away with this
In the context of actual life it's pretty minor man. Everyone needs to chill out, acting like this is a nuclear holocaust
@@1ironmikeocWhen it involves money in the billions and the sentiments of millions of people, i'd be skeptic labelling it a minor issue.
😂😂😂
@@Nopostonsundays24 Not in the context of a win or title for Liverpool. We've already seen City win the league in 21/22 due solely to a VAR mistake that grabbed them the league
Dermot Gallagher is completely missing the point with his « it’s a mistake » comment. Too many people involved to simply say that. This wasn’t a one man take. I can’t wait to hear the audio if it gets released. If it isn’t released someone is not telling the truth and integrity is out of the window.
Liverpool have every right to question the sporting integrity
Pedro mendes anyone?
It’s no longer a mistake if it’s done on purpose. The decision is so terrible, I have no other explanation than it was decided maliciously on purpose to not draw the lines on. I’m a United fan as well. The refereeing in this country is pathetic.
They did draw the lines, it was onside, that's why they put the check complete, correct decision.
They thought the decision by the ref was a goal. That's the human error.
VAR needs to be better run, but what that Liverpool fan is saying about allowing Liverpool to score a goal is ridiculous, would be the end of football if that happens. Countless errors have happened by VAR. This is not the worst one in any stretch.
People are only mad because it's liverpool. Who usually get the most points awarded by VAR decisions.
@@RyanHulse-oo1niquestion is though, presumably the VAR team were watching the offside decision. How did they not see what the on field decision was? If VAR has benefitted Liverpool it was because the correct decisions are made. The inverse would seem to indicate decisions tend to go against them. Fans who love the game will not just turn a blind eye when a bad decision benefits their team, fairness and the correct decisions should always be paramount.
Referees been paid of same as in Qatar vs Ecuador.
@@RyanHulse-oo1niwon’t see a clear handball than rodri at goodison. Couple of games left city win the league liverpool 2nd. Your chatting farts
They are definitely placing bets I’m sure of it
This is not just a mistake. It's an absolutely shocking incident that's just beyond belief. Whoever made such a big error as this should be held to account. Players and team managers get carded for bad errors or mistakes they make in games but it seems referees/match officials always get away with it and nothing ever seems to change. When are these officials going to start being held accountable or penalised for their errors and incompetence. And no, Liverpool won't let this one go. Why should they? A big error like this could cost them something like a place in the top 4, the league title etc. VAR has got to learn from this now and make sure that something like this never happens again. Ever!
You know its bad when Dermot can't even put a positive spin on it
Simple answer. Dont just say "check complete" , but give the result of the check. If he had said "check complete, onside" or similar then any confusion is highlighted and cleared up
Its genuinely a disgrace the amount of errors VAR makes, feels like there’s a controversy every match week
It’s funny how Dermot says that they don’t intentionally make a mistake, buts it’s irrelevant if a player unintentionally makes a bad tackle, like in this very Liverpool game.
Well done Stephen Warnock! You came across fantastic in this! Every response to their BS excuses was spot on! Replay the bloody game simple as that!
Scouse tears 😂 karma for gaslighting the refs
Replay the game? Do me a favour.
@@MarcoGosatti43 same lot who say we need ex players on VAR . They would nominate Carragher, Hargreaves, Souness and Owen.
@@fredjenner You'll lose count how many times Liverpool have got away with desicions the last 5 years.
@@MarcoGosatti43 problem is they spam every comments section everywhere with bots to try and solidify their narrative by false consensus.
There are so many wrong decisions made by those referees , Dermot is just insane
What is worst: To just allow the Diaz goal to be disallowed and carry on. Or to just say to the ref when he started the game again on the Diaz goal, that we missunderstood the situation and say it's a goal. What will make most people happy. 100% just say in the ref's ear that we made a mistake and allow the goal, even if he started the game again.
Did you even watch the video?
By the time they realised what had happened, the game had restarted and at that point there is nothing the refs can do. They cant just make up their own rules.
@@bipolarminddroppingsbut if the rule leads to this level of injustice then of what use is the rule
@@bipolarminddroppingslet’s wait for the recording to be released. There’s dollhouse to be a criminal investigator. From this
They found the same issue with Co-pilot’s not questioning the Pilot even leading to their own deaths. They had to change the mindsets of ‘leader’ to ‘lead’ and reduced the issues greatly. 4:20
Air Crash Investigation on Nat Geo. Too militant which ends with the blind leading the blind, sums up our referees perfectly.
You don't want to look like the bad guy with your colleague I'm sure that's what happens most of the time if In this case they were not distracted by something
@@Cruickyz damn, I thought I would sound smart and you knew exactly where I got it from! Down to the channel!
The way to lower the chance of this happening again is for the Ref in the VAR position to name his decision clearly i.e "Offside" or "Goal". Rather than "Check Complete".
thats too simple for them.
Something must be done, don't let anything destroy this beautiful game.
PGMOL think they have more authority than god. I’ve never seen anything like it in any profession, especially with so much money involved. Extremely shady behavior
Varaready have
Im a United fan and that’s borderline criminal. The ref should be suspended without pay for at least 2 weeks.
So the ref can earn more in the UEA for another couple of weeks? How would that solve anything?
Far longer than two weeks. A red card can mean a player missing three matches, so they should be receiving far longer than a couple of weeks.
Suspended? HE SHOULD BE FIRE, he's either incredibly incompetent or terribly corrupt, he has no place in the EPL in my opinion.
For PL this is a catastrofic. This is a league with so many good teams you can win or loose by a point so this can absolutely never ever happen. Especially with 2 people controlling it. I guess the assistent is there for safety reasons. Sorry aint gonna cut it. You just cant trust the desicions anymore..
It's NOT a mistake. It is sheer and utter incompetence.
Liverpool said they also want investigation into why the same 3 officials were in UAE the day before and then allowed to officiate the biggest game of the weekend the next day where they have inadvertently or otherwise made mistakes to benefit a club run by UAE.
This incident with Liverpool & similar incident with Arsenal last season both benefitted Man City. Then there's the infamous Rodri handball
Funny how the media are so protective over the match officials.......🤔
Once the game has started again and within a few seconds they realised the mistake and that the goal wasn't given why could they not just intervene. There is literally no excuse for not intervening, the stopped the game when there is an head injury even if the opposition is on the attack. There is no excuse they can give that makes any sense.
Imagine how they felt sitting there knowing we'd see the mistake eventually. I bet there was a row about telling the ref or saying nothing. This included with the mcallister red being rescinded and the AR elbow last year are fuel for tinfoil hat wearers but can't be ignored.
This was answered quite clearly in the discussion.
@@martinhartecfc yeah and it was a ridiculous explanation.
Rule change is needed regarding this .. they themselves have no wiggle room to rectify errors
@@martinhartecfc it's an unbelievably unique situation. No one would have said anything about the rules if they had stopped the game. Isn't it also a rule that if a goal is onside then it should be given
This could potentially shape the league come end of this season. This incident will still be the talking point once the season ends. If liverpool lose the title even by goal difference, they would be absolutely fuming
Only because it's Liverpool. Spurs lost the champions league final with the first goal being a non-penalty - the handball rules were changed immediately after. Sheffield United had a goal disallowed vs Villa, which meant they were RELEGATED that season as a result of that game.
Obviously this is a huge, huge error. But all the talk of replaying the game is complete nonsense
@@Meruem5No they didn’t. Origi banged one in to make it 2-0.
@@leecolburn7849My comment was poorly worded so I've now amended it. It was the first goal.
@@leecolburn7849Origis goal was late in the 2nd half. Liverpools early penalty changed the entire game as Spurs faced 2 banks of 5 for the entire match.
Origis goal is irrelevant.
How the hell do you know Liverpool were going to win that game ? They were already 10 men down
They DONE IT AGAIN with Liverpool 3 times losing 9 points, Odeggard handball also Wolves and few other teams
I understand the point about the correct application of the laws of the game negating the referee from being able to nullify the mistake. However, the rules were not applied in the VAR room. Surely in that instance you have to “break” the rules to right a wrong.
It's a question of precedence/antecedent, referees (VAR) have never gone back on a decision. It's like an unwritten rule, a blue wall like the police culture.
even as a LFC, 2 wrongs don't make 1 right. game is over, but there are many more to play, and we want the refs to be at their best for those games and not make these mistakes again. a sorry isnt enough there needs to be some actionable change from the PGMOL
@@gabrielalohan728 Surely though if it can be clearly proven that a wrong decision/judgment had been made, shouldn't that be rectified in some way? Teams and fans don't like to feel aggrieved. Moreover, rules/laws are, rightly or wrongly, constantly being reviewed and changed "to improve the game". Therefore, shouldn't a provision for such an occurrence be incorporated into the rules/laws of the game, as a means of safeguarding the integrity of the game?
Shouldn't they perhaps do something like this: stop the clock, approach the two managers (and the two captains) to explain what has happened, post a message on the screen for the fans to see, award a goal, or retract it, depending on what the error/grievance may have been, and then restart the clock and the game.
@@bragekv9937 I agree. I’m just saying it shouldn’t have even got to this point, very much as Warnock is saying in the video, and should have been rectified shortly after the miscommunication/mistake had been realised. The rules prohibit that, but as the rules weren’t applied in the VAR room, this excuse of abiding to the rules shouldn’t hold water.
Poor man Dermot Gallagher, he'll have a heart attack if he keeps appearing for such occasions on the telly.
He has already lost all his hair
😂😂😂
The only way out is improve the communication on whatever decision is taken. Making it clear on the screen for everyone to see.
He says it absolutely can't happen again, but it will. It will happen again because they aren't willing to change. All they care about is how they can protect themselves. VAR needs to be an independent body that isn't a part of PGMOL.
I take it you know all the referees personally? And have spoken to them many times, to know their intimate thoughts so well.
They messed up. They admitted they messed up.
The rules need to be changed, the process needs to be improved, but its not because the refs are corrupt and only care about themselves. They dont make the rules, they just enforce them.
@@bipolarminddroppings Why would I need to know them personally? Unless the rules change and an independent body starts to review ref decisions, we'll keep seeing these mistakes. The history is there, it's all evidence based.
Every time I hear the name of Dermott Gallagher I just can’t stop laughing 😂
Gallagher is talking like he's personally involved as a Referee. He's NOT. He's not there to REPRESENT referees still. He's there to give his informed opinion on decisions current referees make. It's not personal against him for crying out loud.
That was the fastest offside goal check I have ever seen. And no lines were drawn.
The lines was drawn but they didn’t show it on the screen
Well Done Stephen Warnock 👏🏽
Simple way to avoid this happening again in future if for the VAR to say "Award the Goal" or "Disallow the Goal" rather than "Check Complete" like they do in Rugby League when a try is referred!!
Exactly! In cricket an Aussie Rules football the decision in put onto the stadium screens and is communicated in completely non ambiguous way.
The problem here is process and communication. The discussions held between officials in rugby is a perfect example of how to do it. There is also transparency as that discussion is televised.
“Referees make mistakes all the time…” damn 😂
Easy to say when referees are given free reign to do as they please. They need to be answerable too
This was NOT an error. It was deliberate- an INSIDE JOB.
I've never once heard Dermot say something different from what's obvious yet they bring him on for his insight. Having a referee ego is crazy 💀literally no one cares that much, you are a ref bro
I’ve heard a few VAR convos and they’re always in communication. It’s one thing to miss that the on field ref signaled Offsides visually but we were told that any call is relayed. Ex “flag up, that’s offsides, please check to verify) even if they missed it visually but also via audio is ridiculous
The strange thing is VAR worked just fine for Curtis Jones red card when showing the referee a still photo of the tackle when that is not supposed to happen?
There is no way they could have made an error of this magnitude. Corrupt officials.
Its not just the offside is it...the ref was shocking!!!!!!!!
Two red cards, a rightful goal unfairly disallowed, another unfair yellow card, two Spurs players who should have gotten a yellow card which would have led to red (making the card gesture), own goal. Nobody from the on field referee to linesmen to VAR team gets a let off for me
It's not human error. I can't believe they are saying they thought the goal was given when we all know the ref and linesman are communicating with VAR officials. Absolutely embarrassing to think the public would go along with this nonsense. It's blatantly obvious what's going on.
Exactly.. took them over a hour to come up with that nonsense.
Brah, the screen on the pitch says “Checking For Potential Offsides”. Flag was up, Liverpool were not celebrating the goal. 🤦🏾♂️
the incident happened on the 34th minute , to early to affect the result , you never know how teams can respond . By next week we will talk about something else