Enough so that they considered this episode to have never happened in actual canon, as I understand it. They were thoroughly embarrassed by how this episode turned out.
one of the maybe ONLY positives for this episode: Chakotay sitting in the Captain's chair, not the First Officer's chair (like he almost always does when Janeway is not on the bridge)
Roddenberry's son has declared this episode canon. It DID happen (as did the Animated Series and STV: The Final Frontier). He is in charge of the Trek Estate and says that if it is not specifically mentioned as happening in an alter re universe, it happened in the Prime Universe that we are familiar with.
+T James I know this comment was from 2 years ago, but I disagree with your last statement. What we are seeing isnt the prime universe. Looking back at Star Trek The Motion Picture (which I really liked) it introduced V'ger, an earth probe sent in 1976 that fell into a black hole and emerged at a machine planet that gave it the means to accomplish its goal of learning all that is learn able and reporting back to its creator. In the sequence where Spock journeys into the memory banks of V'GER and sees this machine planet. Im coming back to this part later. In Star Trek First Contact, the Borg make a final attempt at assimilating the earth, in which the cube is destroyed with the help and command of Picard, but a sphere escapes and travels back in time to try to prevent Cochrane's first warp flight that gained the notice of the Vulcans. Once again, coming back to this later. In Star Trek Enterprise, Archer mentions that Cochrane said that "cybernetic organisms from the future tried to prevent his warp launch, but they were stopped by another ship from the future. Of course we do see the Borg and its supposed to link back to First Contact, but here is where things get complicated. In Enterprise, Archer was contacted again and again by Crewman Daniels, who was a Temporal Agent from the 29th century who helped to guide Archer to create the Federation. We learn from this series that time can be fractured and split into various pieces. This has occurred in similar circumstances in other series, such as Voyager when they lost their Harry Kim. But from all the series combined, we learn that there can only be one timeline of events. There can be other dimensions where things act differently, but only a single timeline. But Daniels has been to other timelines, and so has Archer and his crew. This leads me to believe that the universe all the series takes place in, is not the Prime Universe. I believe that Daniels is from the Prime Universe of Star Trek. Cochrane never mentioned the Borg by name, despite his assistant and friend, Lily being on the Enterprise E and hearing, seeing, and watching the Bog for a long time. She knew them by name and ax experience to someone like that is sure to leave the name "Borg" in her mind for a very long time. Cochrane only referred to them as "Cybernetic" not mentioning Borg at all. If they were Cybernetic, and not Borg, who could they be? The definition for Cybernetic is: "the science of communication and control theory that is concerned especially with the comparative study of automatic control systems (as the nervous system and brain and mechanical-electrical communication systems)" Look at the end, "mechanical-electrical." (Now going back to V'GER) V'GER encountered a machine planet in its journey through the black hole. Based on the information that the shows and movies gives us, I can conclude that it was the Machine Planet that sent these "Cybernetic" organisms to earth to prevent the first Warp Flight. But from the future? (Now referring back to First Contact and the Motion Picture) The machine planet that built the ship for V'GER was described by Spock and Uhura has "holding a crew of tens of thousands" "or a crew of 1,000, 10 miles tall." If this machine planet had the capability to build such a massive ship which capabilities that we still cant fully comprehend, I would deem it logical to assume that they had Time Travel Capabilities as well. As Demonstrated in The Voyage Home, Time travel is as simple as flying around a star at around warp 9.6, which was enough to break the chronol barrier and travel back in time. The same thing was used to travel forwards in time. Based on this information, I would have to conclude that this machine planet had advanced time travel capabilities and ship construction. In the Original Series, the Guardian of Forever could send anyone to any place in time. Although it did not display the future, so we can assume that time was linear, and the Guardian could not show the future because it didnt happen yet. (Wrapping it all up now) The Machine Planet Could have seen the Federation as a threat and sent a probe back in time to prevent the launch, but what if the future they saw, wanst what we saw. What if they saw the future of the Mirror Universe, the Terran Empire and feared extinction. By sending a probe back in time to prevent the warp launch, it triggered the creation of the universe we know. From that point, Daniels, who had the means to track different vessels in the time frame, went back in time to stop the machines from destroying humanity. In this case, the Borg are never mentioned, and thus Cochrane never refers to them by name. The universe that we have come to grow up with and love then took a turn when the Bog attacked Earth, Thus sending a Borg Sphere and the Enterprise-E back in time to save the past. In this new universe Cochrane may refer to the machines as the Borg, since it was the Federation Star ship that we all know that stopped the Borg. From all this information these are my final conclusions: Daniels is from the Prime Universe, The Machine Planet not only created V'GER, but sent a probe back in time to stop the Mirror Universe from ever happening, but as a result, it created the beta universe, the one we know. The Mirror Universe rises to galactic power, enough to disturb this ancient race so much that it tries to change history. The universe we know could only happen one second at a time. The Guardian of Forever could only display what had already happened, and not was was going to happen. This excludes our universe from time travel into the future, or from the future into the past. Daniels could take Archer into HIS future to show him (Archer) what the Federation would be like, but from all the disturbances in the beta universe, the future as Daniels knows it, wont exist. And finally, Star Trek is incredibly complicated to understand if you put all things into perspective. Thats why I love this show, its complexity and curiosity. To go where no one has gone before.
Roddenberry's son is the heir to the Star Trek franchise. He will be EP of the new '17 series, and he has declared this episode cannon, 100 percent. Unless it is in a mirror/alternate universe, it DID happen in the Prime Universe we have seen
T James I dont know if you are getting what Im meaning. I accept that this is canon, even if it want the best episode, I enjoyed it and I do consider it canon since it was part of Voyager. Im just looking at clues hidden throughout all the movies and series that might hint that this universe isnt the prime universe. Its still canon, it just isnt the prime universe.
+Threeshallow Gaming A little curiosity: since amphibians made debut on Earth before mammalians, can we say that Paris and Janeway involved and not evolved?
Sightseeing First Contact was awesome, Generations....meh, Insurrection...the fuck?, Nemesis was ok-ish, and after Voyage Home I didn't like the movies either up until FC ;D But in terms of series: the three "middle" series, DS9, TNG, and VOY were the best; imo DS9 is the winner :)
If you want to see the movies based on the original show, you should skip 1 and 5. The good thing is that you do not even need to see the show to understand 2, 3, 4 and 6. Wrath of Khan is actually the best place if you want to start watching Star Trek. The only good Next Generation movie is First Contact, but you need to watch the show to appreciate it fully. Talking about Next Generation, if you want to watch that show, skip season 1 and 2. Enterprise is not a very good show. Season 3 and 4 are okay, but personally, I think Voyager is better, because it had the Doctor and Seven.
i liked voyager when i was younger but now its just painful to watch. so many fillers, so much over acting and bloated stories... DS9 is my favorite these days but i wish they had made things a bit more like BSG
Why don't you try Babylon 5 if you haven't already. The story is great with little filler and even though it look a bit old, it still holds up really well. Give the pilot movie, "In the Beginning," a shot, you might be pleasantly surprised.
Yes, you've got it! First season is a little slow kinda like TNG, but season 2-4 is fantastic; Season 5 winds everything down since it is a 5 year story arc. If you get a chance to watch it, let me know what you thing. :)
That's the episode where Tom kidnapped captain Janeway. They mate and had salamander babies.
Not to forget that they simulated unknown physics in a holodeck and made scientific progress worth of several nobel prices as a side project
the weirdest thing star trek ever produced and that says something
Enough so that they considered this episode to have never happened in actual canon, as I understand it. They were thoroughly embarrassed by how this episode turned out.
This episode seemed a little fishy to me.
THAT IS THE WEIRDEST THING STAR TREK EVER PRODUCED AND THAT SAYS A LOT
(but i still love it lmao)
I don't care! I LOVE vintage~style Monster-Mutated Themed Shows! Very 50's-60's Style Sci-Fi. Who cares about the silly script. It's a Mutant.
The most underrated episode!!!
@Josh VERY. GOOD. REASON.
That one marquis guy turned out to be a traitor who helped the kazon
This episode was freaking terrible.
+Reubenofthedead
This did not happen. This episode never existed.
+RedFenril: I agree, and also the episode when Kes 'returns' to the Voyager.
***** That episode was much better than The Thaw (the Matrix with the evil clown).
This episode was great!! It had me laughing the whole time. "Change me back?? How do you not know that I want to be this way!!"
@@Nisselak that episode was not THIS terrible.
one of the maybe ONLY positives for this episode: Chakotay sitting in the Captain's chair, not the First Officer's chair (like he almost always does when Janeway is not on the bridge)
he was a thirsty boy
This episode might be bad, but look at that make up on Salamander Paris.
The concept of `infinite velocity` is far more prescient and interesting than the biological aspect of this script;
It`s firing my PhD at the moment.
Warp 10 compresses space into a single point, meaning you experience all space at once
Roddenberry's son has declared this episode canon. It DID happen (as did the Animated Series and STV: The Final Frontier). He is in charge of the Trek Estate and says that if it is not specifically mentioned as happening in an alter re universe, it happened in the Prime Universe that we are familiar with.
+T James I know this comment was from 2 years ago, but I disagree with your last statement. What we are seeing isnt the prime universe.
Looking back at Star Trek The Motion Picture (which I really liked) it introduced V'ger, an earth probe sent in 1976 that fell into a black hole and emerged at a machine planet that gave it the means to accomplish its goal of learning all that is learn able and reporting back to its creator. In the sequence where Spock journeys into the memory banks of V'GER and sees this machine planet. Im coming back to this part later.
In Star Trek First Contact, the Borg make a final attempt at assimilating the earth, in which the cube is destroyed with the help and command of Picard, but a sphere escapes and travels back in time to try to prevent Cochrane's first warp flight that gained the notice of the Vulcans. Once again, coming back to this later.
In Star Trek Enterprise, Archer mentions that Cochrane said that "cybernetic organisms from the future tried to prevent his warp launch, but they were stopped by another ship from the future. Of course we do see the Borg and its supposed to link back to First Contact, but here is where things get complicated.
In Enterprise, Archer was contacted again and again by Crewman Daniels, who was a Temporal Agent from the 29th century who helped to guide Archer to create the Federation. We learn from this series that time can be fractured and split into various pieces. This has occurred in similar circumstances in other series, such as Voyager when they lost their Harry Kim. But from all the series combined, we learn that there can only be one timeline of events. There can be other dimensions where things act differently, but only a single timeline.
But Daniels has been to other timelines, and so has Archer and his crew. This leads me to believe that the universe all the series takes place in, is not the Prime Universe. I believe that Daniels is from the Prime Universe of Star Trek. Cochrane never mentioned the Borg by name, despite his assistant and friend, Lily being on the Enterprise E and hearing, seeing, and watching the Bog for a long time. She knew them by name and ax experience to someone like that is sure to leave the name "Borg" in her mind for a very long time.
Cochrane only referred to them as "Cybernetic" not mentioning Borg at all. If they were Cybernetic, and not Borg, who could they be? The definition for Cybernetic is: "the science of communication and control theory
that is concerned especially with the comparative study of automatic
control systems (as the nervous system and brain and
mechanical-electrical communication systems)"
Look at the end, "mechanical-electrical." (Now going back to V'GER) V'GER encountered a machine planet in its journey through the black hole. Based on the information that the shows and movies gives us, I can conclude that it was the Machine Planet that sent these "Cybernetic" organisms to earth to prevent the first Warp Flight. But from the future? (Now referring back to First Contact and the Motion Picture) The machine planet that built the ship for V'GER was described by Spock and Uhura has "holding a crew of tens of thousands" "or a crew of 1,000, 10 miles tall." If this machine planet had the capability to build such a massive ship which capabilities that we still cant fully comprehend, I would deem it logical to assume that they had Time Travel Capabilities as well.
As Demonstrated in The Voyage Home, Time travel is as simple as flying around a star at around warp 9.6, which was enough to break the chronol barrier and travel back in time. The same thing was used to travel forwards in time. Based on this information, I would have to conclude that this machine planet had advanced time travel capabilities and ship construction. In the Original Series, the Guardian of Forever could send anyone to any place in time. Although it did not display the future, so we can assume that time was linear, and the Guardian could not show the future because it didnt happen yet.
(Wrapping it all up now) The Machine Planet Could have seen the Federation as a threat and sent a probe back in time to prevent the launch, but what if the future they saw, wanst what we saw. What if they saw the future of the Mirror Universe, the Terran Empire and feared extinction. By sending a probe back in time to prevent the warp launch, it triggered the creation of the universe we know. From that point, Daniels, who had the means to track different vessels in the time frame, went back in time to stop the machines from destroying humanity. In this case, the Borg are never mentioned, and thus Cochrane never refers to them by name. The universe that we have come to grow up with and love then took a turn when the Bog attacked Earth, Thus sending a Borg Sphere and the Enterprise-E back in time to save the past. In this new universe Cochrane may refer to the machines as the Borg, since it was the Federation Star ship that we all know that stopped the Borg.
From all this information these are my final conclusions:
Daniels is from the Prime Universe,
The Machine Planet not only created V'GER, but sent a probe back in time to stop the Mirror Universe from ever happening, but as a result, it created the beta universe, the one we know.
The Mirror Universe rises to galactic power, enough to disturb this ancient race so much that it tries to change history.
The universe we know could only happen one second at a time. The Guardian of Forever could only display what had already happened, and not was was going to happen. This excludes our universe from time travel into the future, or from the future into the past.
Daniels could take Archer into HIS future to show him (Archer) what the Federation would be like, but from all the disturbances in the beta universe, the future as Daniels knows it, wont exist.
And finally, Star Trek is incredibly complicated to understand if you put all things into perspective. Thats why I love this show, its complexity and curiosity. To go where no one has gone before.
Roddenberry's son is the heir to the Star Trek franchise. He will be EP of the new '17 series, and he has declared this episode cannon, 100 percent. Unless it is in a mirror/alternate universe, it DID happen in the Prime Universe we have seen
T James Im not saying this episode isnt canon, im just saying that all this may not be in the prime universe as we have come to know it.
If it wasn't, we would have been able to tell right off. Sorry, this is canon.
T James I dont know if you are getting what Im meaning. I accept that this is canon, even if it want the best episode, I enjoyed it and I do consider it canon since it was part of Voyager. Im just looking at clues hidden throughout all the movies and series that might hint that this universe isnt the prime universe. Its still canon, it just isnt the prime universe.
I don't understand how traveling at warp 10 would cause mutation like this
Roncace by traveling at ∞ velocity you pass through every moment in time, in short radiation evolved them into different lifeforms.
+Roncace
It is not mutation, it is evolution; like a Pokémon.
Except all the stats get worse and the only attack it can use is Splash.
"Of course! Don't you know anything about science?" - Hitler Clones
Schwarzer Ritter xd
@@schwarzerritter5724 Dunno why they referred to it as evolution, that's devolution...
Captain? Was it good for you too?
so this is what us humans will look like?!
holy crap
at least it's better than saurians
+Threeshallow Gaming A little curiosity: since amphibians made debut on Earth before mammalians, can we say that Paris and Janeway involved and not evolved?
worst episode OF ALL TIME
At least Shades of Gray had parts of good episodes in it.
I would still say Dear Doctor is worse. Partially because it mangles evolution even harder.
Came back to say it again WORST EPISODE OF ALL TIME
Wow, he turned into a reptite from Chrono Trigger
Someone animated this segment in Filmation style.
This episode sucked so bad :D
Worst episode in my opinion. Best series though.
I don't need to see any Star Trek now to know that it sucks ass.
You saw the worst of the worst, trust me
TechSilver Yeah... I've seen most of the odd numbered movies too.
Sightseeing
First Contact was awesome, Generations....meh, Insurrection...the fuck?, Nemesis was ok-ish, and after Voyage Home I didn't like the movies either up until FC ;D
But in terms of series: the three "middle" series, DS9, TNG, and VOY were the best; imo DS9 is the winner :)
TechSilver Is the original one any good, even just to enjoy the new ones or for the few episodes that everyone knows about? What about Enterprise?
If you want to see the movies based on the original show, you should skip 1 and 5. The good thing is that you do not even need to see the show to understand 2, 3, 4 and 6. Wrath of Khan is actually the best place if you want to start watching Star Trek.
The only good Next Generation movie is First Contact, but you need to watch the show to appreciate it fully. Talking about Next Generation, if you want to watch that show, skip season 1 and 2.
Enterprise is not a very good show. Season 3 and 4 are okay, but personally, I think Voyager is better, because it had the Doctor and Seven.
This was a pathetic episode
i liked voyager when i was younger but now its just painful to watch. so many fillers, so much over acting and bloated stories... DS9 is my favorite these days but i wish they had made things a bit more like BSG
+INCC74656I man, BSG compared to this mess? This makes the ending of BSG actualy look good.
Why don't you try Babylon 5 if you haven't already. The story is great with little filler and even though it look a bit old, it still holds up really well. Give the pilot movie, "In the Beginning," a shot, you might be pleasantly surprised.
***** Babylon 5 > Voyager. I didn't even see it!
Yes, you've got it!
First season is a little slow kinda like TNG, but season 2-4 is fantastic; Season 5 winds everything down since it is a 5 year story arc. If you get a chance to watch it, let me know what you thing. :)
***** uh season 2 is not that great. Insteadt it's the end of season 3-6 that's actualy great. Season 7 was very weak.