Gaeilgeoir if you think about it, not really. at their core, they are both programs acting off code. one is projected and one is mechanized. go even further and humans are biological forms of this.
The doctor's only similarity with Data was that he had a lot of screen time, even more so when they gave him the mobility to leave the Sickbay. Aside from that he's just a hologram, in the SNG examples of holograms, they all act incredibly human but only because they were coded as such. But yea it is terribly hard to tell and it might not actually be a mistake from Torres.
Rick Worthy played 3947, not Brent Spiner. He later went on to play various characters in other "Trek" shows, plus programs like "Battlestar Galactica", "The Vampire Diaries", and "The Magicians". He also did a TV version of "The Magnificent Seven".
He likely would not have chosen "hours" as a unit of measurement if it weren't a constant length of time throughout the Federation (which would be a repurposing of it from its original intent, but that's fine.) Assuming this is true, we can state that he has been in service about 150 of Earth's years, regardless of how many years that would translate to on other planets.
Nerdy or geeky as this is, I always love it when overlapping works that take place in the same world reference or discuss about one another. It really shows how wide and rich the universe the works they take place in can be.
+nepomusik Yes yes I understand I always got this thrill that just reinforced the larger world aspect of it all. DS9 TNG cross overs were awesome! This little gem is good as well. The Riker and Q episode I thought was great.
She might have considered mentioning that Data in fact outranks her and she would be expected to take orders from him if she were serving on the same starship. Then she could have used that as a lead in to explaining the concept of individual rights and how a multi-species society works, which these robots did not seem to comprehend.
Sadly these robots only have one thing in mind, destroy the enemy, and all other knowledge they acquire will be irrelevant once they act on that objective. I mean, their own creators tried to make peace with their enemies, and since their programming didn't include the possibility of peace, they declared their creators traitors and wiped them all out. You tell them all of this, and the second their enemy appears, it will all instantly be forgotten.
Something that’s pretty cool is how you realise how much more sophisticated Data really is compared to these androids, which seem to be numerous throughout this part of the Delta Quadrant. Data has facial expressions, a voice with inflections, eyes that blink at “random”. He’s also able to reconcile different conflicting ideas and possess *true* agency and free will whereas these androids can’t seem to operate outside of their programming.
Well these androids were meant to be weapons, so they didn't include those features. Now if they were say assassins rather than frontline soldiers they'd have surely included the full run of humanoid features like facial expressions and blinking eyes.
Not on film, but she meets Data in a 'Starfleet Academy' novel set before she dropped out and joined the Marques. As these books are aimed at young readers it doesn't state if she tested his level of full functionality.
NOVELS ARE NOT CANON. Paramount has stated this many times. They routinely ignore the events in the novels. If B’Elanna ever meets Data then she will say “Our first time meeting” .
I really wish they had put Data in Voyager's holodeck for 39 to meet him. Would've been one of the best Voyager episodes of all time. But this was a good episode anyway.
One thing I love about the Star Trek universe is that it’s interconnected. Even thousands of light years away from Federation Space, Voyager and her crew are aware of other notable places and people - and when they established contact with Earth, vice versa. Data, Spock, Q, the history of the Enterprise, Deep Space Nine, the Dominion - all of it.
I read the Trek Lit Pocket Books Timeline. Took about 3 years and was well worth the journey. All the Voyager relaunch books were excellent by Kirsten Beyer .
+CowsRus Some languages are different. The U.S. uses math as opposed to maths. By the way, taking such a condescending tone in regards to language, one would think you would structure your "sentence" better than an 8 year old.
Robert Kowalke That would be Russia. Now can all the children take their petty arguments elsewhere because I'm getting fed up of getting emails and notifications every time one of you replies to my comment. Thank you in advance.
i dont think the doctor would count as a sentient machine, hes a sentient program. which can display a physical form. and Lor is not part of starfleet, so perhaps B'elanna did not include him, because hes not part of their society, and it would complicate things to include an evil sentient ai machine.
@@Tyhros Or, more simply, B'elanna doesn't know about Lore. Data is kind of famous in Federation circles, but his evil brother? Not so much. They try to keep it under wraps that there's an identical android to Data running around out there. If Voyager takes place at the same time as TNG, then Data wouldn't have been active for that long and even the TNG crew didn't know about Lore initially. It's possible that they only ran into him while Voyager was already stuck in the Delta Quadrant.
This is what I love about Star Trek. It's all about the exchange of cultures between two species which highlights the contrast between them. This scene in particular is interesting because it follows that exact idea but it's between Starfleet and an AI Cyborg. They eventually seem to establish some sort of understanding and connection. It's subtle stuff like this that I enjoy so much about Star Trek.
Actually she left out the Exocomps. They were considered sentient in their willingness to act in a manner of self-sacrifice, and in protest to the endangering of their fellows. They just weren't as witty as Data.
They aren't probably as well known as Data was by the time Voyager got lost, even if years has passed, while their will to survive was proven on the episode they stared, further test would probably take some time and more to make it public. Besides, Data is famous for being as humanly as possible, the same reason why the Doctor isn't mentioned, since despite his appearance, his physiology is very different, being an hologram and all.
+Michael Saumure Perhaps because it turned out Data's hypothesis regarding the Exocomps was wrong. From what I have seen in the episode, their behaviour could have been just the most efficient way to solve a problem.
B'Elanna could have mentioned Lore or Lal too. But she probably forgot, or didn't see every episode of TNG. She almost certainly didn't know about Juliana Tainer, Data's "mother".
I love how the Star Trek Worlds intertwine each other like that. Even though they come from the same creators, but it's still so cool!! I love Star Trek!!
Thank you for being the only person to actually recognize the design. People are all over here saying Doctor Who and Styx like this wasn't an ancient design.
Has anyone noticed seven seconds into the video it shows a bunch of robotic parts laying on the table? The three fingered hand it shows belongs to Johnny 5 from Short circuit. I'm sure of it. It's identical. It might even be from the same props.
I would have loved to see a robot like this meet Data. It feels like Data didn't really get a lot of other robots to interact with, and when he did, most of them weren't sentient. I could just imagine the two talking and just going full robot mode with their speech, both being able to understand each other in ways that the other humans couldn't.
How wild would it be though if it had been the enterprise that encountered these robots though? Would have loved to see how Data would react to them and vice versa
@@guyplus3053 That whole relationship in general was forced, " uhm, we need seven to get with somebody to show her humanity it's the last few episodes just pick someone"
Both Data and The Doctor are artificial lifeforms- this episode aired when Voyager's crew have already accepted their Emergency Medical Holgraphic Program as part of the crew. But the unit asked more specifically if the artificial life forms are similar to their own. So it would lend to a response related to robotic artificial lifeforms... like data. She kinda hinted at Exocomps tho.
The doctor is a computer program given from by holographic lighting. Wherever “he is”, his existence is actually entirely still within the ship’s computer.
The Doctor is also a sentient artificial lifeform, and his shipmates at least treat him as their equal. I always found it weird that the writers forgot about him, and the actress didn't catch up on the mistake when saying her line either.
+ScientistCat I think I thought about that too when I watched the episode, but maybe B'Elanna was more talking about mechanical lifeforms like Data and the guy she's talking to and putting the Doctor in a separate category since he's a hologram
vegetarianvamp101 Perhaps, though she doesn't mention that. She only refers to the APU's cognitive level. Sounds more like a writing error than continuity, then. (Or you could excuse it by saying B'Elanna was focused too hard on her work and didn't realize her mistake.)
fctiger74 While I agree with most of that, it's the level of cognition that she mentions (sorry if I sound like I'm repeating myself here); neither of them says a word about physical body. Besides, if I remember right, the Doctor was already being seen as his own person by the time this episode aired... which made B'Elanna's error all the more glaring to me when I first watched it.
The Doctor is not a form. What you see is a hologram. Everything about the Doctor exists as a program inside the sip’s computer. Wherever “he is” is merely an illusion.
RIMMER: Now this three-dimensional sculpture in particular is quite exquisite. Its simplicity, it's bold, stark lines. Pray, what do you call it? LEGION: The light switch. RIMMER: The light switch? LEGION: Yes. RIMMER: I couldn't buy it, then? LEGION: Not really. I need it to turn the lights on and off.
After a few days her general knowledge exceeded the robot maker of robots. No one should under-estimate her zeel for knowledge and her love of robotics.
The Doctor wasn't considered sentinent by the crew at this point that's why Be'lanna didn't mention him. The Doctor truly started to evolve in the third season and he just kept growing up until the very end. One of the best character arcs I've ever seen. Data and Seven of Nine come second and third.
@@alphanerd7221 as a hologram the entire intelligence of the Doctor runs on a machine, so yes he's a machine with the hologram simply the projection of him for interacting with the physical world.
@@shadizersilverhand2113 Wrong. He's a program. Which machine he's on is never part of his identity. The Doctor's program exists on half a dozen machines throughout the show and he never becomes a new person.
@@alphanerd7221 he's a program THAT REQUIRES A MACHINE TO RUN ON. Yes of course he doesn't change when his physical body (the machine) changes because the program contains his identity but he can't exist without the machine to run on.
@@shadizersilverhand2113 Putting irrelevant things in capitol letters doesn't change the fact that you lost this argument. I can't exist without air. That doesn't mean air is part of me.
At that time I'm not sure how much B'Elanna would have known about the Exocomps before she got booted to the Delta Quadrant. But they eventually got their opportunity to take part in Federation society a decade or so later.
Interesting. Wouldn't Voyager's Emergency Medical Hologram constitute a sentient artificial life form by this point? I always thought their very gradual development of the doctor, from little more than an automaton to a fully realized sentient being, was one of the best things about this show.
friendly reminder this is the show that fired more than 4 times the amount of torpedoes than the ship could have ever carried and launched 3 times as many shuttle craft.... they couldn't give a shit less about that kind of thing
@@shadowforge No. That is a common ignorant criticism of the show. They bought new warheads and manufactured new shuttlecraft. The show was clear about this. You just didn't pay attention.
@@alphanerd7221 That's because they aren't merely programs and algorithms my friend. They are consciousness. Just like us. Only our vessels and abilities/life purposes are different. This is something that many of us will discover in the years to come. Stay blessed and keep your head up dear brother. 🌎✨
It looks like one of the puppet prop arms. Where you would see the arm on camera doing things but not the whole robot. It looks legit though. Wonder why CBS has it though...
So, one thing I never understood. Data is presented throughout TNG as this incredibly advanced artificial life form, so much so that no one could reproduce the technology used in his positronic brain (he tried once with Lal, who malfunctioned and was irreparably damaged shortly after activation). Then Voyager comes a long with the EMH, who becomes a fully functioning, integrated part of the crew, who from all appearances is at least as sophisticated as Data, just lacking a physical form. So, when asked about artificial life forms, why does B'ellana mention Data but not the Doctor. Why isn't he considered an artificial life form?
Honestly, they were never consistent in this regard. The same can be said of Vic Fontaine from DS9 and of Moriarty from TNG. You could also see that even the unevolved versions of the EMH seemed unhappy toiling in mines. I suppose one could rationalize it as prejudice displayed by the crew, but I suspect it's just bad writing/lacking philosophical sophistication when dealing with the problem of artificial intelligence.
Thanks for posting this video as well as naming the episode it's taken from. I don't think I've seen this episode, but your video has sparked my interests. I'm going to have to check it out now.
the production crew must have watched metropolis before creating the humanoid artificial life form in this scene......it's face is heavily influenced by the robot in that movie
Alex Rozenbom Gay. Outside of unique situations, no straight man says to another man, “I trust you”. Smh. If you aren’t straight, I get it. But if you are straight, be cognizant of how you speak.
That is the uptime in Unix: # uptime At 1:00 I have been in service 1,314,807 hours and 33 minutes. At 1:00 That is 149.98939 years and 33 minutes. A non-advised person would say: 150.09212 years.
I watched all of this and I have no memory of this episode, then again I saw half of the last episode thinking it was mid season, only to watch it and say I’ve seen this the whole time
Yes, he almost did, at one point, he intended to send flowers for her funeral but then found out it was too premature. He didn't however verse his intentions on screen.
The most often hurt bad character in Star Trek universe. She even had her beating heart gripped and squeezed from inside by a terrorizing hologram once. The director must have hated her.
This episode had such strong Frankenstein undertones. Plunging a knife into the new prototype, which gives the race the ability to reproduce, is a concept that is very similar to Mary Shelley's monster and Frankenstein destroying the female monster.
"I would like to be acquainted with this 'Data.'" In that moment, 39 became the show's avatar for anyone who had to slog through the first few seasons of Voyager.
I remember really liking this episode but it was a bit of a shame that the robots were so cringey looking. They reminded me of Dr Who effects from the 80's. They might have pulled it off better if they just made them look like machines with different appendages for different uses etc, like the medical droids in Star Wars. I suppose the budget was to blame.
voyager always made references and tribute to TNG, yet DS9 ripped it apart everytime. Which is unforunate because Voyager, DS9 are infinitely better than JJ Trek.
But he did not achieve sentience until after running for many, many months longer than he was originally designed to operate and even then his prototype was specifically denied the same rights that Data was granted (Episode #166 "Author, Author").
A robot is an automaton designed to do repetitive or dangerous work. An android is an autonomous independent intelligence capable of a myriad of tasks that can mimic human capabilities. A robot is programmed. An android can learn and apply that new knowledge in creative ways.
We had some really attempted well planned Star Trek writing; that made sure that the lives of some of our favorite characters never intersect in the present story lines. That Voyager episode made Data a mere reference for B'lana who never met him or needed to in the vast multiple worlds world of Star Trek. Also, writers resisted an appearance or communication of Piccard characters with Janeway and other Voyager characters other than the involved Seven of Nine!
She forgot about the other sentient artificial lifeform in Starfleet, the one she interacts with on a regular basis, the Doctor.
There's a big difference between an artificial lifeform and a computer program.
Gaeilgeoir if you think about it, not really. at their core, they are both programs acting off code.
one is projected and one is mechanized.
go even further and humans are biological forms of this.
The doctor's only similarity with Data was that he had a lot of screen time, even more so when they gave him the mobility to leave the Sickbay.
Aside from that he's just a hologram, in the SNG examples of holograms, they all act incredibly human but only because they were coded as such.
But yea it is terribly hard to tell and it might not actually be a mistake from Torres.
The Doctor is NOT a life form. He's a computer program. There's a world of difference...
FlyingPanda Data isn't a program, he functions with an actual brain and stuff, not from a computer.
"Wears a uniform just like the rest of us..... and outranks me"
Would be awesome if she said that. Shows the enormous. Respect for the officer.
She's referring to the OPS department
Also 2nd Officer of the Enterprise the Federations Flagship
@@DrRiddlez2015 to be fair he's also a Lieutenant Commander
Rip
It's so freaking cool to see the different series reference each other.
I find it funny that they're talking about Data while Brent's acting as Three-Nine-Four-Seven.
I recently started watching Enterprise. The references get me everytime.
Rick Worthy played 3947, not Brent Spiner. He later went on to play various characters in other "Trek" shows, plus programs like "Battlestar Galactica", "The Vampire Diaries", and "The Magicians". He also did a TV version of "The Magnificent Seven".
Well, the voice sure sounded similar.
Not to me. Very different.
I just used calculator and he's been in service about 150 years.
149 years, 361 days. His birthday is in 4 days!
So now :D
Assuming the planet he comes from has a 24 hour day and 365 day calendar year.
1,314,807 hours 33 minutes
Using 24 hours/day; & 365.25 days/year
that's 149 years; 361 days; 9 hours; 33 minutes
He is nearing his 150th birth anniversary...
or rather 150th Activation Anniversary
He likely would not have chosen "hours" as a unit of measurement if it weren't a constant length of time throughout the Federation (which would be a repurposing of it from its original intent, but that's fine.) Assuming this is true, we can state that he has been in service about 150 of Earth's years, regardless of how many years that would translate to on other planets.
Nerdy or geeky as this is, I always love it when overlapping works that take place in the same world reference or discuss about one another. It really shows how wide and rich the universe the works they take place in can be.
+nepomusik Yes yes I understand I always got this thrill that just reinforced the larger world aspect of it all. DS9 TNG cross overs were awesome! This little gem is good as well. The Riker and Q episode I thought was great.
+nepomusik
Nerd and Geek is form of disparagement to express a dislike for those that appreciate knowledge.
and then someone comes along and reboots it, and all that decades-long effort to maintain continuity and relations doesnt mean anything anymore
This timeline still exists parallel to the new timeline.
Used to be. Used to be. Now thanks to the licensing scams by Bad Robot, CBS and Kurtzman it's all torched and destroyed.
She might have considered mentioning that Data in fact outranks her and she would be expected to take orders from him if she were serving on the same starship. Then she could have used that as a lead in to explaining the concept of individual rights and how a multi-species society works, which these robots did not seem to comprehend.
Daniel S i was thinking the exact same thing.
Sadly these robots only have one thing in mind, destroy the enemy, and all other knowledge they acquire will be irrelevant once they act on that objective. I mean, their own creators tried to make peace with their enemies, and since their programming didn't include the possibility of peace, they declared their creators traitors and wiped them all out. You tell them all of this, and the second their enemy appears, it will all instantly be forgotten.
Well, considering she was a member of the Maquis I would think an ensign would outrank her as her current title is only symbolic out of necessity.
Considering her past I doubt the writers would have her taking orders from a male even if android.
then you will be interested in this, google:
rule34 data
*comes back a few hours later*
3947: Data lied
B'elanna: How so?
3947: He says his name is Lore
Something that’s pretty cool is how you realise how much more sophisticated Data really is compared to these androids, which seem to be numerous throughout this part of the Delta Quadrant. Data has facial expressions, a voice with inflections, eyes that blink at “random”. He’s also able to reconcile different conflicting ideas and possess *true* agency and free will whereas these androids can’t seem to operate outside of their programming.
I think Data would disagree with you.
@@sallysanchez8891 which is what’s so great abt him lol
The REAL... ahem... Measure of a Man... is whether or not a cat would deign to share quarters with 3947...
Well these androids were meant to be weapons, so they didn't include those features. Now if they were say assassins rather than frontline soldiers they'd have surely included the full run of humanoid features like facial expressions and blinking eyes.
A great moment, in one of B'elanna's best stories: it's too bad we never actually got to see her MEET Data.
Not on film, but she meets Data in a 'Starfleet Academy' novel set before she dropped out and joined the Marques. As these books are aimed at young readers it doesn't state if she tested his level of full functionality.
So Data is the only sentient being in their society... Glad the Doctor didn't hear that....
NOVELS ARE NOT CANON. Paramount has stated this many times. They routinely ignore the events in the novels. If B’Elanna ever meets Data then she will say “Our first time meeting”
.
I really wish they had put Data in Voyager's holodeck for 39 to meet him. Would've been one of the best Voyager episodes of all time. But this was a good episode anyway.
+Paul-Octave Hébert And then 39 starts asking questions about photonic lifeforms and hears the Doctor's complaints about being oppressed.
Actors cost money. Voyager couldn’t afford more than a few guest spots per year. (Also possible Brent Spiner was busy doing other shows.)
doctor was a hologram. lol!
Better yet, put Professor Moriarty on Voyager's holodeck.
Talking about Data is one thing. Bellana telling us she knows he's fully functional. Then I'll be impressed.
Only two people knew for sure, and they both are dead.
That's how we know he's fully functional
+Potsdam28 -- Awww XD
Well, they are both dead, but both basically confirmed already that it is the case, so it doesn't matter that they're dead
Jenna D'Sora died?
One thing I love about the Star Trek universe is that it’s interconnected. Even thousands of light years away from Federation Space, Voyager and her crew are aware of other notable places and people - and when they established contact with Earth, vice versa. Data, Spock, Q, the history of the Enterprise, Deep Space Nine, the Dominion - all of it.
I read the Trek Lit Pocket Books Timeline. Took about 3 years and was well worth the journey. All the Voyager relaunch books were excellent by Kirsten Beyer .
He has been online for 150 years.
+Matt Dykes I just watched this for the first time and did the math. Then I wondered if anyone else did the math too, and then I saw your comment.
+CowsRus Some languages are different. The U.S. uses math as opposed to maths.
By the way, taking such a condescending tone in regards to language, one would think you would structure your "sentence" better than an 8 year old.
+CowsRus Ignorant? Your something of a special type aren't you? Just remember who saved your dumb asses from becoming extinct in the 40's you halfwit.
Robert Kowalke That would be Russia. Now can all the children take their petty arguments elsewhere because I'm getting fed up of getting emails and notifications every time one of you replies to my comment. Thank you in advance.
Matt Dykes
I love the Johnny 5 robot hand thrown into the pile of parts.
Yes, thank you. Was thinking the exact same
I recognized it immediately, and I was scrolling through comments hoping I wasn't alone.
Thanks how did i miss that it was my fav movie as a kid still love it now tho
@Carpathia's Creations It is called recycling. 😁
Seemed like a terminator skull aswell
So Data is the only sentient being in their society... Glad the Doctor didn't hear that....
or Lor; if someone re-assembled him not to mention that other prototype Moon built.
Data was the only sentient one at that time, the Doctor hadn’t been accepted yet or something
i dont think the doctor would count as a sentient machine, hes a sentient program. which can display a physical form.
and Lor is not part of starfleet, so perhaps B'elanna did not include him, because hes not part of their society, and it would complicate things to include an evil sentient ai machine.
@@Tyhros Or, more simply, B'elanna doesn't know about Lore. Data is kind of famous in Federation circles, but his evil brother? Not so much. They try to keep it under wraps that there's an identical android to Data running around out there. If Voyager takes place at the same time as TNG, then Data wouldn't have been active for that long and even the TNG crew didn't know about Lore initially. It's possible that they only ran into him while Voyager was already stuck in the Delta Quadrant.
@@Xylarxcode that makes better sense, didnt consider that about lore. Him being lesser known or under raps.
This is what I love about Star Trek. It's all about the exchange of cultures between two species which highlights the contrast between them. This scene in particular is interesting because it follows that exact idea but it's between Starfleet and an AI Cyborg. They eventually seem to establish some sort of understanding and connection. It's subtle stuff like this that I enjoy so much about Star Trek.
Actually she left out the Exocomps. They were considered sentient in their willingness to act in a manner of self-sacrifice, and in protest to the endangering of their fellows. They just weren't as witty as Data.
They aren't probably as well known as Data was by the time Voyager got lost, even if years has passed, while their will to survive was proven on the episode they stared, further test would probably take some time and more to make it public. Besides, Data is famous for being as humanly as possible, the same reason why the Doctor isn't mentioned, since despite his appearance, his physiology is very different, being an hologram and all.
+Michael Saumure
Perhaps because it turned out Data's hypothesis regarding the Exocomps was wrong. From what I have seen in the episode, their behaviour could have been just the most efficient way to solve a problem.
Well, the Exocomps aren't Federation members. 3947 specifically asked about *her* society.
This IS B'elanna Torres we're talking about. If she literally can't identify shit WITH a tricorder, what makes you think she knows about the exocomps?
B'Elanna could have mentioned Lore or Lal too. But she probably forgot, or didn't see every episode of TNG. She almost certainly didn't know about Juliana Tainer, Data's "mother".
I love how the Star Trek Worlds intertwine each other like that. Even though they come from the same creators, but it's still so cool!! I love Star Trek!!
Also, Data is my most favorite Star Trek character!!!
The Robots' face reminds me of the chrome-face cops in THX-1138
"His name is Data. And he is more perfect than you and your companions are ever will be."
He reminds me of the robot in Fritz Lang’s 1927 silent movie, “Metropolis.”
I knew I recognized it from somewhere! Wow, I haven't thought about that movie in more than a decade!
Thank you for being the only person to actually recognize the design. People are all over here saying Doctor Who and Styx like this wasn't an ancient design.
3947 has been alive 150 years
B'Elanna talking about Data had me bawling. It was so beautiful to watch 🥺❤️
Actually Juliana Tainer is the most advanced Soong-type android
Don’t think that was public knowledge
Till Maddox does his masterpiece
Going deep bro
How do I not remember this episode? Those creepy, dead eyes don't seem like something I'd forget.
You nailed it with the dead eyes. If you watch this episode, these androids end being , well let's just say it didn't end well for the builders.
You forgot because they invariably wimp out and by the end of the episode everything is back to boring old normal again.
+Brandon “Innomen” Sergent I thought the robots destroyed each other
I liked the reference to Johnny Five. Great stuff.
Jesus dude, look up two movies, "Short Circuit", and "Short Circuit 2".
22steve5150. Gave me existential nightmares as a kid.
Jared said, and smiled in his special way
JARED BARATTA I see what you did there. 🤣
That arm on the table was a good call back. I wonder if the movies had any producers or technical engineers that later witness on star trek.
she's my favorite - people cry so much but, seriously there's no crying in The Delta Quadrant
B’elanna is very kind in this scene.
B'elanna is so damn cute!
Dang... gotta watch the whole episode now.
He sounds like Dr. Theopolis from Buck Rogers.
OMG, he does!
OMFG you're showing your age there buddy, I loved Tweeky too
Your right :).
Buck Rodgers is on Comet TV, so not really showing age.
@@debbienpeters Well if I had to guess, I'd say they remember it from the original showing. Because...I've never heard of Comet TV.
no love for Lore :(
+dbonomo123 or B4 (who may have come after chronologically, but still!)
+dbonomo123 nor the tiny microscopic robotic colony that wesley build
+dbonomo123 Nor the servocomps that Data fought for and begrudgingly were acknowledged to be sentient.
+dbonomo123 Data's daughter.
Marc Duperron
Sadly does not count because does not exist as it were any longer.
"Oh, crap, I forgot today was the robot episode shooting. Quick, go to any store, buy a plastic mask! You, give me your jacket!"
It's a well written tell. These robots are designed for war so their human interface would be minimal.
Has anyone noticed seven seconds into the video it shows a bunch of robotic parts laying on the table? The three fingered hand it shows belongs to Johnny 5 from Short circuit. I'm sure of it. It's identical. It might even be from the same props.
Came here to see if anyone else had noticed^^
yep
I would have loved to see a robot like this meet Data. It feels like Data didn't really get a lot of other robots to interact with, and when he did, most of them weren't sentient. I could just imagine the two talking and just going full robot mode with their speech, both being able to understand each other in ways that the other humans couldn't.
Did they borrow a TOS android costume or something? Thing's cheezy as fuck even by Star Trek standards
+BuzzKill True to your name.
saquist I try.
+BuzzKill Cheese and sex do not go well together. I agree the costume is a bit too tin manny
fctiger74 I see. Thanks for the insight.
I would never invite you to my birthday cause you will be the one saying "one year closer to death!"
How wild would it be though if it had been the enterprise that encountered these robots though? Would have loved to see how Data would react to them and vice versa
Kryten is my favourite talking robot.
Smeeee... Smeeee HEEEEEEEE!!!!
150 years after their builders were destroyed
they kept fighting
B’elanna should be Star Trek: Picard. I wonder about the rest of her story after Voyager got back.
She ditched Tom and became a lesbian
@@sillysausage4549 actually, that's what happened to 7 and Chakotay.
@@guyplus3053 That whole relationship in general was forced, " uhm, we need seven to get with somebody to show her humanity it's the last few episodes just pick someone"
@@sillysausage4549 No
@@guyplus3053 No
Data is a legend in the Alpha Quadrant
Both Data and The Doctor are artificial lifeforms- this episode aired when Voyager's crew have already accepted their Emergency Medical Holgraphic Program as part of the crew. But the unit asked more specifically if the artificial life forms are similar to their own. So it would lend to a response related to robotic artificial lifeforms... like data. She kinda hinted at Exocomps tho.
The doctor isn't an artificial lifeform.
The doctor is a computer program given from by holographic lighting. Wherever “he is”, his existence is actually entirely still within the ship’s computer.
I like when she mentions about wearing the same uniform as him. A strong hint that she's talking about Data.
The Doctor is also a sentient artificial lifeform, and his shipmates at least treat him as their equal. I always found it weird that the writers forgot about him, and the actress didn't catch up on the mistake when saying her line either.
+ScientistCat I think I thought about that too when I watched the episode, but maybe B'Elanna was more talking about mechanical lifeforms like Data and the guy she's talking to and putting the Doctor in a separate category since he's a hologram
vegetarianvamp101
Perhaps, though she doesn't mention that. She only refers to the APU's cognitive level.
Sounds more like a writing error than continuity, then. (Or you could excuse it by saying B'Elanna was focused too hard on her work and didn't realize her mistake.)
fctiger74
While I agree with most of that, it's the level of cognition that she mentions (sorry if I sound like I'm repeating myself here); neither of them says a word about physical body. Besides, if I remember right, the Doctor was already being seen as his own person by the time this episode aired... which made B'Elanna's error all the more glaring to me when I first watched it.
The Doctor is not a form. What you see is a hologram. Everything about the Doctor exists as a program inside the sip’s computer. Wherever “he is” is merely an illusion.
it's LEGION from Red Dwarf!
RIMMER: Now this three-dimensional sculpture in particular is quite exquisite. Its simplicity, it's bold, stark lines. Pray, what do you call it?
LEGION: The light switch.
RIMMER: The light switch?
LEGION: Yes.
RIMMER: I couldn't buy it, then?
LEGION: Not really. I need it to turn the lights on and off.
After a few days her general knowledge exceeded the robot maker of robots. No one should under-estimate her zeel for knowledge and her love of robotics.
The Doctor wasn't considered sentinent by the crew at this point that's why Be'lanna didn't mention him. The Doctor truly started to evolve in the third season and he just kept growing up until the very end. One of the best character arcs I've ever seen. Data and Seven of Nine come second and third.
He's also not a machine.
@@alphanerd7221 as a hologram the entire intelligence of the Doctor runs on a machine, so yes he's a machine with the hologram simply the projection of him for interacting with the physical world.
@@shadizersilverhand2113 Wrong. He's a program. Which machine he's on is never part of his identity. The Doctor's program exists on half a dozen machines throughout the show and he never becomes a new person.
@@alphanerd7221 he's a program THAT REQUIRES A MACHINE TO RUN ON. Yes of course he doesn't change when his physical body (the machine) changes because the program contains his identity but he can't exist without the machine to run on.
@@shadizersilverhand2113 Putting irrelevant things in capitol letters doesn't change the fact that you lost this argument. I can't exist without air. That doesn't mean air is part of me.
Great episode. I remember getting mad at the foreshadowing for letting me know about the twist. LoL :)
Don't forget about the Exocomps.
At that time I'm not sure how much B'Elanna would have known about the Exocomps before she got booted to the Delta Quadrant. But they eventually got their opportunity to take part in Federation society a decade or so later.
Interesting. Wouldn't Voyager's Emergency Medical Hologram constitute a sentient artificial life form by this point? I always thought their very gradual development of the doctor, from little more than an automaton to a fully realized sentient being, was one of the best things about this show.
friendly reminder this is the show that fired more than 4 times the amount of torpedoes than the ship could have ever carried and launched 3 times as many shuttle craft.... they couldn't give a shit less about that kind of thing
@@shadowforge Haha 🌎✨ ^^
No. A program could never be a life form. It has no form.
@@shadowforge No. That is a common ignorant criticism of the show. They bought new warheads and manufactured new shuttlecraft. The show was clear about this. You just didn't pay attention.
@@alphanerd7221 That's because they aren't merely programs and algorithms my friend. They are consciousness. Just like us. Only our vessels and abilities/life purposes are different. This is something that many of us will discover in the years to come. Stay blessed and keep your head up dear brother. 🌎✨
Is it just me or is there a subtle level of awe and admiration when Belanna speaks about Data?
I told the commander We are not enemys.
I would bever be your enemy.
He talks like Isaac from The Orville hehe
Romeo Vásquez and data
THE KRAYLOR
they are a race in the episode
NIGHTINGALE
I'm pretty sure his builders were the Praylor.
Reminds me of how good the writing used to be on Voyager. I miss it.
Wow, I forgot about this clip. They really did mention Data by name! :-D
This robot race had to be the inspiration for Kaylon in the Orville series. There are just too many similarities.
I was thinking the same thing
ROFL was that a johnny 5 hand at the start of the vid?
Good catch! It sure looks like it. I wonder if it is a real prop from the movies or if they recreated one as a homage. :)
It looks like one of the puppet prop arms. Where you would see the arm on camera doing things but not the whole robot. It looks legit though. Wonder why CBS has it though...
That ALWAYS bothered me... I hate when I see contemporary earth tech in sci-fi movies and shows....
Johnny 5 is alive
Definitely looks the same
DS9 and Voyager are the best Spin - offs of Star Trek.💪
This episode is an example of why the Prime Directive exists.
Anyone else catch the "johnny 5" hand on the bench?
Johnny 5 is Canon in STU
So, one thing I never understood. Data is presented throughout TNG as this incredibly advanced artificial life form, so much so that no one could reproduce the technology used in his positronic brain (he tried once with Lal, who malfunctioned and was irreparably damaged shortly after activation). Then Voyager comes a long with the EMH, who becomes a fully functioning, integrated part of the crew, who from all appearances is at least as sophisticated as Data, just lacking a physical form. So, when asked about artificial life forms, why does B'ellana mention Data but not the Doctor. Why isn't he considered an artificial life form?
Honestly, they were never consistent in this regard. The same can be said of Vic Fontaine from DS9 and of Moriarty from TNG. You could also see that even the unevolved versions of the EMH seemed unhappy toiling in mines. I suppose one could rationalize it as prejudice displayed by the crew, but I suspect it's just bad writing/lacking philosophical sophistication when dealing with the problem of artificial intelligence.
The doctor is just a hologram. He literally has no form.
I was watching this scene and she started talking about Data and I screamed like a little girl.
He's been alive for 150 years.
Notice the large "fingers" at the beginning? That's from Short Circuit.
good catch
Based on the parts I recognize, they literally disassembled Johnny 5.
I had such a crush on B'Elanna back then, it was mostly her eyes and her lips that sold me ❤️
Thanks for posting this video as well as naming the episode it's taken from. I don't think I've seen this episode, but your video has sparked my interests. I'm going to have to check it out now.
From Star Trek voyager prototype. Season 2 episode 13.
the production crew must have watched metropolis before creating the humanoid artificial life form in this scene......it's face is heavily influenced by the robot in that movie
Is that Brent Spiner's voice?
No, it's an actor named Rick Worthy.
memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/3947
@@jaredc304 Thanks for the answer. It sounds exactly like Brent Spiner. I trust you.
Alex Rozenbom Gay. Outside of unique situations, no straight man says to another man, “I trust you”.
Smh.
If you aren’t straight, I get it. But if you are straight, be cognizant of how you speak.
Vwap Trader2019 so you’re a monster.
Joe T Butt out of this (pun fully intended, Gaylord).
i think it is cool that at the very beginning, and throughout, the clip, you can see Johnny 5's hand on the work bench.
This was one of the best episodes of Voyager. It is reminiscent of the Doctor Who episode "Robots of Death"
Technically wouldn't Lore bump that number up to 2?
This takes place a while after Lore's destruction in 'TNG: Descent, Part II' and Data's 'evil' brother isn't well known.
That is the uptime in Unix:
# uptime
At 1:00 I have been in service 1,314,807 hours and 33 minutes. At 1:00
That is 149.98939 years and 33 minutes.
A non-advised person would say: 150.09212 years.
Nice.
I would just round up to 150, very few things need yo be that precise
Thanks for doing the math on that, I was wondering how long that was lol.
References to characters from other series are _almost_ as exciting as crossovers. :)
I watched all of this and I have no memory of this episode, then again I saw half of the last episode thinking it was mid season, only to watch it and say I’ve seen this the whole time
short circuit nova robotics hand at the beginning.
"Nova Robotics, disassemble make dead, disassemble Number Five, dead."
*Why can I see Johnny 5's fingers?*
"I belive it will"
This one sentence is pure gold 😐
I went ahead and did the math on a whim. 3947 has been active for 150 years.
cliffhanger: does the sentient unit send her flowers after that?
Yes, he almost did, at one point, he intended to send flowers for her funeral but then found out it was too premature. He didn't however verse his intentions on screen.
"same as any human" sorta feels weird in Star Trek with all it's species and being spoken by someone who is half human
Yea , she could’ve said “same as any biological lifeform”
@@Seven35888 But that wouldn't be accurate.
@@alphanerd7221 how so?
@@Seven35888 How about because cockroaches and the corona virus are biological life forms?
Awesome addition to this space
Prototype is from Season 2, episode 13.
We know he's fully functional thanks to his encounter with Tasha Yarr.... hey-hey.
He can't use contractions when he talks but he can make Tasha have contractions all night
The most often hurt bad character in Star Trek universe. She even had her beating heart gripped and squeezed from inside by a terrorizing hologram once. The director must have hated her.
In the opening pan shot, the hand prop with the blue joints is Johnny 5's hand (or another of the NOVA robots) from Short Circuit.
This episode had such strong Frankenstein undertones. Plunging a knife into the new prototype, which gives the race the ability to reproduce, is a concept that is very similar to Mary Shelley's monster and Frankenstein destroying the female monster.
"Can your artificial life forms make use of contractions?"
sauercrowder are their beards an affectation?
NO THEY CAN'T ... DON'T EVEN TRY!
I always found that stupid, capable of writing new subroutines and such for himself, still can’t simply change the way he says things.
+FTLghost It’s an easy tool for the writers to make people feel like the person speaking is artificial.
@@bobgunner3086 NICE reference.
"I would like to be acquainted with this 'Data.'"
In that moment, 39 became the show's avatar for anyone who had to slog through the first few seasons of Voyager.
Johnny 5's hand in the foreground is a nice touch.
Good luck meeting Data...
2 questions:
A: Why does she have Johnny 5's hand?
B: How did the props department get Johnny 5's hand?
I saw the series 3x times, but I just saw it NOW!
I remember really liking this episode but it was a bit of a shame that the robots were so cringey looking. They reminded me of Dr Who effects from the 80's. They might have pulled it off better if they just made them look like machines with different appendages for different uses etc, like the medical droids in Star Wars. I suppose the budget was to blame.
I thought similar
I think it would have been enough if they had simply had the from and back parts of the head actually line up.
That gap, it's like why?
@@celestialsalamander Fair point. I liked the voices.
I don't remember this episode, and I re-watched the whole series 3-4 years ago.
Tiberian Fiend you aren’t missing anything, evil androids killing each other. That’s about it.
I think that was Johnny 5's hand in at the very beginning...cool!
voyager always made references and tribute to TNG,
yet DS9 ripped it apart everytime. Which is unforunate because Voyager, DS9 are infinitely better than JJ Trek.
When did DS9 ripped TNG apart?
sorry I meant DS9 fans ripped it apart everytime, I don't know why voyager got so much hate.
Actually VOY was most proper SEQUEL to TOS.
The Doctor from this very ship is also an ALF(artificial life form)
But he did not achieve sentience until after running for many, many months longer than he was originally designed to operate and even then his prototype was specifically denied the same rights that Data was granted (Episode #166 "Author, Author").
True, but he's not a robot.
Jero Briggs
Data is android not a robot.
-- Isn't an Android just a robot made to look like a human ?
A robot is an automaton designed to do repetitive or dangerous work.
An android is an autonomous independent intelligence capable of a myriad of tasks that can mimic human capabilities.
A robot is programmed. An android can learn and apply that new knowledge in creative ways.
I like how the file extension is left in the title 😆 nice clip!
We had some really attempted well planned Star Trek writing; that made sure that the lives of some of our favorite characters never intersect in the present story lines. That Voyager episode made Data a mere reference for B'lana who never met him or needed to in the vast multiple worlds world of Star Trek. Also, writers resisted an appearance or communication of Piccard characters with Janeway and other Voyager characters other than the involved Seven of Nine!