Yeah considering how often over the years we've heard the "you know it was illegal to feed lobsters to prisoners" or some variant this one seems a little too obvious. Hopefully the next one won't be about Viggo Mortensen broke his toe.
That is actually an urban myth. There are a lot of those stories circling around, just the city changes every time, but there is never a credible source mentioned. According to a newspaper article an archivist from Basel did some research and found nothing. One thing however is for sure, there was a lot of salmon swimming in the rivers back then and it was indeed a poor man's dish.
@@oliverniekrenz After doing some research, this is a real thing, and a contract was found in France from 1842, where this "standard" had been continued past it's usefulness. The main problem with this claim is that many modern sources say it's from the 1800's when written statements from the 1800's are also claiming that this is something from the past. I found a claim from 1821 that claims their text was written in 1658, and the text itself calls this an "ancient statute". After doing some searching through Swedish sources, I've found claim from 2009 stating there was a contract from the 1700's with such a clause. (I haven't been able to verify this claim but it seems more believable than the next one) There's another Swedish claim that the state collected salmon as tax in the late 1800's, and salted it. Workers in Umeå shall then have requested not having to eat salmon more than a certain amount of days per week. The problem with this claim, is that the claim is dated later than the beginning of the myth, and is therefore not very different from me demanding to have this clause in my contracts. (I reordered my comment after writing it, so I apologize for the minor repeats.)
@@oliverniekrenz But at least it's an *old* urban myth. The oldest mention in the German area seems to be in Hamburg in 1695, where School Master Wenzel Janibal told that urban myth about poor servants 1454. ;-)
@@mawillix2018 hah, cool. looks like neither the journalist nor the archivist did their job properly. I stand corrected ...and feel hungry for some fried salmon
Bill, you're thinking of Pearl Street, which is still one of the main streets of lower Manhattan, but spot on about the history of the oyster shells there. Pearl Street actually runs along the original shoreline of Manhattan too - everything past Pearl going towards the East River is landfill!
There's a Pearl Street in Albany too, and it's pretty close to the Hudson river. Curious if it got the name for the same reason - not that oysters would be that far from the ocean, but it was along a major trade route from Manhattan.
Hearing the word “Midden” gave me such a nostalgia trip because as well as meaning a compost heap, it was/is also an insult in the Scottish Highlands - meaning someone (usually a teenage girl) who looks a mess. There were many times that my dad called me that (semi-jokingly) when I was dressed up and heading off to parties and concerts many years ago. I still use it today for my kids. Edit: grammar
On a similar note was that in some places it was considered a violation of human rights for a prison to serve lobster too often. However, it is worth noting a major part of that was HOW it was generally served: thrown into a grinder whole (i.e with their shells still on) and served as a lobster-y mush.
That lobster fact at the beginning didn't just apply to New England, but higher up into Atlantic Canada as well. I'm from the Acadian Peninsula, where the seafood industry is large enough that Shippagan even has a college campus dedicated to marine science and the fisherman have extra bunks on their lobster boats in case marine biologists need to go out to the ocean for their research or data collection.
This question totally would've gotten cut out if it weren't for Bill's incredible 18th century New England impression, and I am so glad we got to hear it.
3:45 - Yeah, I grew up down by the Manned Spacecraft Center, now “Johnson Space Center,” outside Houston during the Apollo program (my dad was one of many engineers working for Grumman on the Lunar Module). Anyway, in those days, not the roads, but the shoulders of the roads were entirely oyster shells.
That information came to some French radio recently (I think it was French radio, must have been because I remember they mentioned "homard", the French word for rock lobster). We had the same think in the West part of France, the contracts signed between farm owners and daily workers said that they must not be fed salmon more than X times per week.
oyster shells are used to pave streets and driveways in Texas along the Gulf coast. My grandmother's place was built new in the late 1960s and I remember being afraid to walk on the oyster-shell driveway 'cos it was so rough (but not sharp). The last time i was there was for her funeral fifteen years ago and that driveway had been worn down to small rounded bits about half an inch in size amidst a fine powder.
It's wild that NYC just paid 4 million dollars for a study that advises them to provide bins for trash collection, instead of just dumping bags on the street... o_O;
When it comes to "foods that used to be for the poors but now are eaten by the hoity toity elite", the funniest one for me is mimolette cheese in Poland. It used to be one of the most available cheeses back in the Polish People's Republic (Warsaw Pact) days, and everyone was positively sick of it, and now it's being sold as this incredible delicacy, while my mom and stepdad both utterly detest it and think it's hilarious that now it's being marketed to posh people while back in the day that was the common working man's cheese.
speaking as a poor person myself, I'm also quite happy things have gone this way. The rich are welcome to their Lovecraftian abyssal decapods; I'll get by on beef and chicken.
Thank you very much for the episode title! I know you get flak when the title or image spoils it, so I want to do the opposite here and say well done on making it interesting and enticing without spoiling anything!
only thing i knew about new england in the 1800s was the tuberculosis outbreak that caused a lot of our modern vampire myths. i didnt manage to link that to the question though
Initial thoughts: Their "yards" were the ocean at low tide? So, they kept the "shame" out of sight (e.g. hid bones/pelts of eaten rats), and also avoided the stink and slime/grime of old moldy food? Maybe they could not afford the proper "waste management service" fees? Perhaps it's their animal/human bodies, as in given them a home burial, and not pay the proper funeral fees? I know that even in the 20th century's country-side, before any environmental concerns, they would simply drag big trash (e.g. old appliances, debris) onto the frozen lake; and come spring, the problem would solve itself without lifting a finger. It was another time. So I can't image what it was like in the 1700s.
If someone really thinks they have the answer and doesn't want to say it in case its correct and ruins the bit, maybe yall should discord (other messaging systems are available (but worse)) the questioner and they can let you know if you're correct and should hold your tongue, or if you're way off and should say your guess so the show can go on and you can be a part of the discussion.
Damn social status is something huh? Nowadays some people still try and look wealthier than they actually are, but I didn't know there's that other end of the spectrum of not wanting to look poor for eating cheap. Nowadays you'd hide the fact you got cheap meals so others won't go there and make the place crank the prices up lol
So, what documentary did we all watch? 🤔🤔🤔😁 I think it has to be some video on RUclips because I believe I got this piece of information in English and I don't have any streaming service or English speaking TV station. And it has to be short one because I wouldn't watch an hour long video about lobsters or the history of New England, sorry.
Tom....As a former lighting designer, your new lighting is bothering me. It's making you look flat and plastic. Please move the key to one side, and add a lower-lumen fill to the other (75-90 spread between them; and if you want to make it even better, put a "no color pink" gel on the key and a "no color blue" on the fill). Look up the McCandless method of lighting for some tips.
On the accent, um... no. The southern accent is closest to the accent that used to be shared between all American and British English speakers. The British royal family changed their accent later and the British copied it. New England and New York, which had more contact with England after the revolution, ended up with a hybrid accent and the American South remained with something closer to the original common way of speaking.
This is actually a lot of misinformation, concocted after the fact by the Yankish to justify perceived differences in British and British American accents. It's very commonly repeated because it appeals to USA nationalism, but there's not much truth to it. People from all over the British Isles emmigrated to British America, taking their accents with them, including both south-eastern and north-western accents. It wasn't until relatively recently that the "General British-American Accent" became so widespread. It really is the yankish who have changed! Dr. Geoff Lindsay posted a great recent video on this sort of misconception, I'd recommend it to anyone.
@@FerinedCan you be more specific. I subscribe to that channel, though I only watch it occasionally. But I just scrolled through all his posted videos (there aren't that many) and I don't see what you're talking about there.
I'm surprised this question even made it to air. But I'm glad it was to hear that dead-on 18th century New England dialect.
Yeah considering how often over the years we've heard the "you know it was illegal to feed lobsters to prisoners" or some variant this one seems a little too obvious.
Hopefully the next one won't be about Viggo Mortensen broke his toe.
In some regions in Sweden that have found old documents saying that farm workers do not have to accept eating salmon more than 4 days a week. 🤣
That is actually an urban myth. There are a lot of those stories circling around, just the city changes every time, but there is never a credible source mentioned. According to a newspaper article an archivist from Basel did some research and found nothing. One thing however is for sure, there was a lot of salmon swimming in the rivers back then and it was indeed a poor man's dish.
@@oliverniekrenz After doing some research, this is a real thing, and a contract was found in France from 1842, where this "standard" had been continued past it's usefulness.
The main problem with this claim is that many modern sources say it's from the 1800's when written statements from the 1800's are also claiming that this is something from the past. I found a claim from 1821 that claims their text was written in 1658, and the text itself calls this an "ancient statute".
After doing some searching through Swedish sources, I've found claim from 2009 stating there was a contract from the 1700's with such a clause. (I haven't been able to verify this claim but it seems more believable than the next one)
There's another Swedish claim that the state collected salmon as tax in the late 1800's, and salted it. Workers in Umeå shall then have requested not having to eat salmon more than a certain amount of days per week. The problem with this claim, is that the claim is dated later than the beginning of the myth, and is therefore not very different from me demanding to have this clause in my contracts.
(I reordered my comment after writing it, so I apologize for the minor repeats.)
@@oliverniekrenz But at least it's an *old* urban myth. The oldest mention in the German area seems to be in Hamburg in 1695, where School Master Wenzel Janibal told that urban myth about poor servants 1454. ;-)
@@mawillix2018 hah, cool. looks like neither the journalist nor the archivist did their job properly. I stand corrected ...and feel hungry for some fried salmon
Spoilers bro
Bill, you're thinking of Pearl Street, which is still one of the main streets of lower Manhattan, but spot on about the history of the oyster shells there. Pearl Street actually runs along the original shoreline of Manhattan too - everything past Pearl going towards the East River is landfill!
There's a Pearl Street in Albany too, and it's pretty close to the Hudson river. Curious if it got the name for the same reason - not that oysters would be that far from the ocean, but it was along a major trade route from Manhattan.
Hearing the word “Midden” gave me such a nostalgia trip because as well as meaning a compost heap, it was/is also an insult in the Scottish Highlands - meaning someone (usually a teenage girl) who looks a mess. There were many times that my dad called me that (semi-jokingly) when I was dressed up and heading off to parties and concerts many years ago. I still use it today for my kids.
Edit: grammar
First time I ever heard the word was playing Skyrim, I actually didn't know until this video where it came from
On a similar note was that in some places it was considered a violation of human rights for a prison to serve lobster too often.
However, it is worth noting a major part of that was HOW it was generally served: thrown into a grinder whole (i.e with their shells still on) and served as a lobster-y mush.
still can't get over the fact that tom is not in his usual red shirt
and he has gorgeous green eyes
@@pincushionllama and wonderful silver hair!
bill stole it
Always a delight to see Robert!
2:20 'talk to a linguist'- Bill, forgetting Tom's degree.
Bill and Tom really smegged up Robert's question by answering it really quickly!
"Sir, you're a smee." "A smee." "You're a smee hee." "A smee hee." "A complete and total one!"
That lobster fact at the beginning didn't just apply to New England, but higher up into Atlantic Canada as well. I'm from the Acadian Peninsula, where the seafood industry is large enough that Shippagan even has a college campus dedicated to marine science and the fisherman have extra bunks on their lobster boats in case marine biologists need to go out to the ocean for their research or data collection.
This question totally would've gotten cut out if it weren't for Bill's incredible 18th century New England impression, and I am so glad we got to hear it.
I got that one instantly too.
I didn't get to lobster but I did get seafood as the New England coast is known for it.
I think I was around 22 when I saw an episode of SciShow that mentioned this fact.
Oh! I knew this one when the question was read! It's amazing how the perception of something can change so drastically.
3:45 - Yeah, I grew up down by the Manned Spacecraft Center, now “Johnson Space Center,” outside Houston during the Apollo program (my dad was one of many engineers working for Grumman on the Lunar Module). Anyway, in those days, not the roads, but the shoulders of the roads were entirely oyster shells.
I think up until the 1930s lobster was actually one of the foods regularly served in US prisons, because it was so cheap.
Finally one I also got right away! 😊
The important thing about filter feeders is the filter part
I like the word oyster. It sounds like something an English chef might yell at a lazy kitchen helper. "Oi! Stir that lobster chowder!"
What kind of noise annoys an oyster?
A noisy noise annoys an oyster.
i heard somewhere about the lobsters too, so this didn't feel too off for me either.
nice speedrun.
It was not only Tom & Bill who got it immediately. For the first time ever, I knew the answer when the question was being read.
Just noticed Robert's "mini-mes" on his shelf! 😆
I can't believe I didn't notice that!
That information came to some French radio recently (I think it was French radio, must have been because I remember they mentioned "homard", the French word for rock lobster).
We had the same think in the West part of France, the contracts signed between farm owners and daily workers said that they must not be fed salmon more than X times per week.
oyster shells are used to pave streets and driveways in Texas along the Gulf coast. My grandmother's place was built new in the late 1960s and I remember being afraid to walk on the oyster-shell driveway 'cos it was so rough (but not sharp). The last time i was there was for her funeral fifteen years ago and that driveway had been worn down to small rounded bits about half an inch in size amidst a fine powder.
"Geoffrey, Geoffrey. They've put a lobster in their trash."
That's the worst impression of Zippy I've ever heard!
knew this one immediately as well. feel i'm in good company with Bill and Tom. :)
I was so close but was stuck thinking of weird forest critters that might have easy to id bones and didn't consider the sea
I think scampi was the reverse where it went from posh seafood to classic pub grub.
Amazing lineup on this episode ❤
Fastest solve I've ever seen!
Bill's 18th century impression sounds shockingly like Tim Curry
There had been a load of 'lobsters used to be cheap' threads on Twitter recently, so this one was easy.
It's also recently come up on Lateral
It's wild that NYC just paid 4 million dollars for a study that advises them to provide bins for trash collection, instead of just dumping bags on the street... o_O;
My man Tom is looking fly as hell!
When it comes to "foods that used to be for the poors but now are eaten by the hoity toity elite", the funniest one for me is mimolette cheese in Poland. It used to be one of the most available cheeses back in the Polish People's Republic (Warsaw Pact) days, and everyone was positively sick of it, and now it's being sold as this incredible delicacy, while my mom and stepdad both utterly detest it and think it's hilarious that now it's being marketed to posh people while back in the day that was the common working man's cheese.
I grew up in Connecticut and some people still paved driveways with oyster shells
speaking as a poor person myself, I'm also quite happy things have gone this way. The rich are welcome to their Lovecraftian abyssal decapods; I'll get by on beef and chicken.
Ya I am happy to skip on anything coming out of the ocean, lake or streams.
Tom has such pretty eyes and I had not yet realized this.
I was thinking some veggie rind, but had the right idea of foodstuffs.
Thank you very much for the episode title! I know you get flak when the title or image spoils it, so I want to do the opposite here and say well done on making it interesting and enticing without spoiling anything!
Yes, I can confirm, all people in England and New England sound like Stewie Griffin
Just a little guess immediately efter the question:
I would suspect oyster shells.
Well, I was close at least.
@@57thorns I had the same
Yeah, I'm sure I've heard that before. Also lobster used to be similarly low-class food.
Close!
@AlexSwanson-rw7cv yeah and it was in England until there was a oyster sickness that was stopped being a food for a while
To Robert's point about New England accents. I grew up in, and still live in the SouthWestern US. I can't understand a proper New Englander either.
The truly poor people had nothing left to throw out.
That older fellow reminds me of Kryten from Red Dwarf... wait, he *is* Kryten from Red Dwarf!
How often should you change the filter on your oyster?
Has Tom had a glow-up? Throw on a silver chain and id be confused to if it wasnt a former noughties boy band singer
What a lovely accent Mr Llewellyn has! And I'm British btw. :p
Better as Kryten I reckon!
In mid-georgian London Oysters were so cheap they were a staple for poorer families, especially around Seven Dials.
Empty 'Happy Pilgrim - Family Buckets' from Kentucky Fried Rodent? : )
only thing i knew about new england in the 1800s was the tuberculosis outbreak that caused a lot of our modern vampire myths. i didnt manage to link that to the question though
Tom looks like a hollywood movie star right now!!! very suave
I knew this immediately
Initial thoughts: Their "yards" were the ocean at low tide? So, they kept the "shame" out of sight (e.g. hid bones/pelts of eaten rats), and also avoided the stink and slime/grime of old moldy food? Maybe they could not afford the proper "waste management service" fees? Perhaps it's their animal/human bodies, as in given them a home burial, and not pay the proper funeral fees?
I know that even in the 20th century's country-side, before any environmental concerns, they would simply drag big trash (e.g. old appliances, debris) onto the frozen lake; and come spring, the problem would solve itself without lifting a finger. It was another time. So I can't image what it was like in the 1700s.
Results: and another miss to put on the pile. I had the right idea (about hiding rats), but would not have made the link to lobster or seafood.
Lobster was also a poor person's food in the UK in years past.
Didn't know the answer but my immediate quests was bones of like a cat or something so...
Speedrun episode.
before seeing the answer, but being from new england the thing that everyone has heard is that it's probably lobster
I barely recognized Tom Scott in that outfit.
Description is wrong, technically robert gave the question and tom was facing it!
Semantics. They're just listing the guests and setting the scene. They're aware you will know what's going on.
If someone really thinks they have the answer and doesn't want to say it in case its correct and ruins the bit, maybe yall should discord (other messaging systems are available (but worse)) the questioner and they can let you know if you're correct and should hold your tongue, or if you're way off and should say your guess so the show can go on and you can be a part of the discussion.
I almost don't recognise Robert without his Kryten getup.
LOBBO, the fast-bowling giant lobstah is not amused.
LOBBO!!!
Tom has betrayed his country, surely the question is "Why bury rubbish in your garden?" 🇬🇧🇬🇧😂
Some people were so shellfish back then, they didn't help those who had very little. I suppose that's why they were a bit crabby.
Krities!!!!
I’m sure There was a rule inthe. U.S.that prisoners could only be served lobster so many times a week
Damn social status is something huh? Nowadays some people still try and look wealthier than they actually are, but I didn't know there's that other end of the spectrum of not wanting to look poor for eating cheap. Nowadays you'd hide the fact you got cheap meals so others won't go there and make the place crank the prices up lol
I'll go ahead and make the obligatory "Tom's not wearing a red shirt" comment.
Mayonnaise
surf for the serfs
Why does Tom's background look different?
Without the accent or makeup, I didn't recognize him.
How big a get is the guy who played Kryton?
Clam shells?
you were in the ballpark! 👍
So, what documentary did we all watch? 🤔🤔🤔😁
I think it has to be some video on RUclips because I believe I got this piece of information in English and I don't have any streaming service or English speaking TV station. And it has to be short one because I wouldn't watch an hour long video about lobsters or the history of New England, sorry.
Why is tom like 15 fps or something
Oysters are so yummy though!😭
But try lobster 3 meals a day for one month and see what you think after that :)
My guess was fish, and that it would have to do with their repugnant smell attracting attention.
SPOILER BLOCKER
Tom....As a former lighting designer, your new lighting is bothering me. It's making you look flat and plastic. Please move the key to one side, and add a lower-lumen fill to the other (75-90 spread between them; and if you want to make it even better, put a "no color pink" gel on the key and a "no color blue" on the fill). Look up the McCandless method of lighting for some tips.
Have you noticed how many RUclipsrs light themselves straight on, which makes them look flat? Better to use natural light when possible.
On the accent, um... no. The southern accent is closest to the accent that used to be shared between all American and British English speakers. The British royal family changed their accent later and the British copied it. New England and New York, which had more contact with England after the revolution, ended up with a hybrid accent and the American South remained with something closer to the original common way of speaking.
This is actually a lot of misinformation, concocted after the fact by the Yankish to justify perceived differences in British and British American accents. It's very commonly repeated because it appeals to USA nationalism, but there's not much truth to it. People from all over the British Isles emmigrated to British America, taking their accents with them, including both south-eastern and north-western accents. It wasn't until relatively recently that the "General British-American Accent" became so widespread. It really is the yankish who have changed! Dr. Geoff Lindsay posted a great recent video on this sort of misconception, I'd recommend it to anyone.
@@Ferined I'll look for that video. Thanks.
@@FerinedCan you be more specific. I subscribe to that channel, though I only watch it occasionally. But I just scrolled through all his posted videos (there aren't that many) and I don't see what you're talking about there.
@@Sam_on_RUclips His most recent video covers this somewhat, in the context of old Hollywood accents. It's the one about mid-atlantic accents.
I heard it was specifically the (south-eastern) Appalachian accent that most closely resembled Shakespeare's English.