For years we have heard countless environmentalists complaining about seeing 5 seater cars with only one person in them on the daily commute . If we all drove formula 4 cars they would be happy, yes? This is proof for nothing other then environmental reasons we need to make formula 4 cars road legal.
@@mileswoods2527 the formula car can maintain and sutain that pace for the whole grandprix while the 911 turbo will start to heat sock after 5 or so laps
For me Porsche obvious won. You can came by Porsche on track, have fun and go back to home. On evening you can go for date with girl. In f4 car you can't. You don't have slicks on 911. Weight difference is X3, comfort difference is x30. You can try longer distance on this cars (tires, fuel) and Porsche could won. It's all about regulations and FUN.
Why are people complaining about comparing these 2?? There are a million videos already comparing a 911 against R8's, Ferraris, GTR's etc, etc, etc... This is something different! Finally!
Jack Thorpe Well for you we have a new video, just because you want something different, are you ready? The Porsche 918 Spyder VS. The Mall Walker. Think about the weight difference, this one could be close!
"Simplify, then add lightness". It's a shame modern sportscars are so far removed from that philosophy. This Turbo S weights 1605kg (3538lbs). Ridiculous...
911 has comfort, single-seaters has none, its a boneshaking ride from hell! comfort = adding weight, but modern sportscars has gone to far from lightness and simplisity
Bro it's a road car, luxury car. Not for me or you (i think) because of budget. You can compare Porsche 911 rebuild for racing and than compare this cars even with f3 or F2. (Equal cost of build + add cost per use for season). 911 here even don't have slicks...
I don't know why people are mad that the Formula 4 car is better. Did you really expect any road car to be as good to drive as a single seater race car?
Yes... a F4 car can be beaten by a hypercar on semi-slicks (like the 918 or the 720s), maybe also by the GT2 RS. Meaning on an average track with some longer straights
@@iseeq72 There is no way, we are faster than the 500hps gt3 arround some tracks (who have slicks, light weight and some aero). It's the fact the cars run lower to the ground and are 3times lighter that makes them that fast
Ciber At Laguna Seca, with Randy Pobst at the wheel, the 918 holds the production road car record (1:29.89). Fastest lap in Prototype 1 (sports-racers with 1000cc motorcycle engines and about the same power and weight as that Formula 4) at last November's SCCA run-offs was 1:22.397, in a Stohr WF1. It's not close , even when the road car is a hybrid hypercar...
@@DavidKAndersoneven after 9 years the new record for the fastest production car is 1:24ish by the Jesko Attack still a few second slower than an F4 car.
With 100,000 big ones, I can have a couple of nice cars to get some groceries with. Both cars are great, I sure hoped the Formula 4 car would beat it since that's the one thing it was made to do.
Any production car is a virtual bus when compared to a formula car. Only about 150mph in a straight line would that Porsche have the ability to outrun the F4 because of its superior aerodynamics and power. The Porsche is a rolling chicane everywhere else.
911 Turbo S is fast but it is not a track prepared car, its only fast in a straight line. Second important thing is 911 Turbo S is nowhere near the fastest 911 available. 911 GT3 RS would be faster on track, then 911 GT3 RS from 2019 would be even faster as it generates much more downforce than 2015 version, then 911 GT2 RS would be even faster and then 911 GT2 RS MR is the fastest currently available 911 and it could easily make more than 5 seconds of difference. So yeah they should compare it with truly fast, track oriented 911 rather than the one which only appears to be fast. Third thing is the track choice. This is probably a small, very technical circuit without long straights which favorizes F4. Let's try on a Monza and I bet 911 Turbo S will be much closer if not faster and something like already mentioned 911 GT2 RS MR would just destroy that F4 car. So this is a very biased comparison. Not all of the road legal cars are slower than race cars. Slow race cars like F4 or maybe something like BTCC may be about as fast if not a bit slower than the fastest road legal cars (and 911 Turbo S is nowhere near the fastests 911s.
@@paulstevens9409 911 Turbo S is nowhere near the fastest road legal cars or fastest 911s. It's not even designed to be fast on a track. 911 GT3 RS would be faster than that, GT3 RS from 2019 would faster than 2015, then GT2 RS would be easily faster than GT3 RS and top of it GT2 RS MR would be even faster than standard GT2 RS. See? The actual fastest Porsche (not that sluggish Turbo S) would probably be as quick as that F4 car and remember this is a very slow, technical circuit. On a Monza GT2 RS would probably destroy it.
+Jackie Scholl I bet the Porsche would win on a fast circuit like Monza or Spa Francorchamps. It is the same as with the discussion about the Ferrari LaFerrari vs. Porsche 918 vs. McLaren P1: there is not one fastest car, there is only a fastest car on a certain track.
I wouldn't call Le Mans boring. In the 80s before they added the two chicanes cars did 260 down the mulsanne straight. Even if it is long that's not exactly boring.
I believe this is actually a very good comparison. It's just informative on the difference between a race car and a street car. The significant difference is in the high speed corners where the aero come into affect. The tyres on the F4 car are not necessarily grippier than the Turbo's tyres. I forgot if the the F4 car uses bias-ply or radial tyres. Even if you put slicks on the Porsche, it would not come close to the F4 car. The better handling gives more rolling speed out of the corners so down the straight the cars equal out. If anything the F4 car is faster down straights because the aero reduces drag. With proper setup and gear ratios, I believe the F4 car can go 1 or 2 second faster at least. You would also have to see how he is on the brake traces in the F4 car. In a formula car, under braking you have to slowly trail off due to loss of down force as you slow down so he might be losing significant time in braking too. Very good driver though!
Dumy Jobby that's why i asked. I obviously think that the porsche is better but some people really like pure performance on the track. nothing more, and for that the f4 car is better.
MarksmanGamingVideos this video does prove though if you are shopping for a track day car don't waste your money on a porsche. I'm sure lots of people buy porsches only for track/recreational use and this video proves there are much better options out there. Fair comparison
What's pointless here? The Porsche has a a huge horsepower advantage which to most people is the only thing that defines the performance of a car. If anything this dispels any notions of that being the sole defining factor of performance. I imagine the massive torque of the Porsche also helps to counter the weight of the car in comparison to the light F4. Had it been a racetrack with really long straights the comparison might have been more even.
i wish that one day they try a submarine vs i don't know F16??? that is totally fucked UP! but there is a point,you can go faster without spending tooo much! but we can't drive this F4 ON THE STREETS.
I would like to see XBow RR versus a F4 ! I would like to know if its worth investing in a trailer to pull an open wheel car, or if there is a product out there that could roll its way in and out of the circuit on its on wheels.
at SPA francorshamps : - the Fomula 3 is 30 seconds faster than the McLaren P1 and 35 seconds faster than the 911 Turbo S. - the Formula 4 is 24 seconds faster than the McLaren P1 and 30 seconds faster than the Turbo S. Formula 3 best lap at SPA : Max Verstappen 2014, in 2:11,1 McLaren P1 best lap at SPA 2:39
The Porsche is useless on the road. It's FAR too fast, to the point of being entirely irrelevant. I can't even enjoy a modest hot-hatch on the road, because by the time you're actually reaching into the cars ability you're doing twice the speed limit, easily. And that's jail time, and that's just not worth it. It's a great comparison this - for not much money (not necessarily an f4 car) you can get a single seater that's much more suited to track driving - it won't cook its tyres or its brakes, and every road car will do that after a few laps. People talk about nurburgring lap times, and this that and the other when debating sports cars - it's all pointless, because its just people arguing about what compromised road car is fastest in an environment where it's as relevant as an articulated lorry. Modern sports cars have lost the plot chasing speed and lap times and this video, while perhaps revealing the obvious, also makes you think about what you're spending your money for.
1) It's not all about raw speed it's about responsiveness and 2) they have this thing called a track. I have an STI. I'll never top it out at 150+ mph. But just using it as a daily driver is fun. A regular econobox feels like driving a tractor in comparison.
msiley I completely agree with you. Also thinking about handling, grip, sound, gear shifts... Driving a powerful car is loads of fun, even if you don't drive like a madman on public roads. I've got a modest Scirocco, but I enjoy every corner with it. What's an STI, a Subaru?
Everyone calm down... This was a necessary test to reset what, we the public, view in our minds as quick. I think the Porsche did very well but it's a street car with air conditioning, air bags, cup holders, etc.. Think about this, if the Porsche races a Formula 1 car, the F-1 team would have been packed up by the time the Porsche finished...
+jack dalisa In your dreams maybe. It cant even outrun this Porsche. The tested Car on the Nurburgring everyone talks about is not serial, it was called a "near serial prototype".
+jack dalisa as a civic driver (my daily) i definitely agree. f1 car doesn't have anywhere close to a chance. haha nd f1 cars now have only 2 more cylinders! and some turbos. they got nothing on my naturally aspirated inline 4 though! ;D
+Connor DeYoung Racing Video proof or keep dreaming.Show us ur DD with upgrades vs the aforementioned car... MAKE SURE to post link here of your car where you call me out in video of you as you race.....
Nizam Ahamad LOL what? Both cars have the same power-to-weight ratio. The Porsche won´t accelerate faster with its 1400kg against a 470kg F4- car just because it has 500hp. But the F4-car has slicks and lots of aero.
Nizam Ahamad 470kg vs 1700Kg not only the formula 4 car has more power per weight ratio but it has much more grip due to it slick tyres and aerodynamic, if only the Porsche had slick tires things would have been different
Still a fun video. This video is not meant to compare apples:apples. It is intentionally an apples:oranges comparison. Old saying "get the right tool for the job" - In my opinion if you want a great lapping/weekend day car and can trailer, an F4 car is a great option. Inexpensive and you'll be hard pressed to have more fun then that! The Porsche is simply amazing in every aspect, including that you can drive it down, have a tonne of fun and drive home at the end of the day. 2 amazing cars, two difference purposes...I appreciate them both
This match show how weight is much more important than power, when you deal with bends. But in the real world forget the F4. If you want something light and fast for the real world, try Lotus Exige, for example.
Alexandre Fernandes The weight yes. But the single seater's center of gravity and roll center are so close to the ground it almost does not roll in corners. It can pull +2g in corners easily. You can make a very tall car that weights light but it won't do well in corners. The video also made a mistake. F4 has very little downforce (compare to F3, CN 2liter prototypes, etc), it relies heavily on mechanical grip, not aero grip. It's a go kart on steroid. I track an old Formula Renault 2.0 3 times a year. These cars are naturally faster than any sports car but extremely difficult to post very competitve lap times.
golferchin76 Yes, when I mentioned weight the center of gravity was included. And indeed, the car need a minimum weight to have the necessary grip. Thanks, for your contribute!
Interestingly huge difference in track performance... Wouldnt have guesses that. If I had to own one it would be the formula car all day long. Basic, simple, effective.
swinglow33 lol! We need this review because Steve Sutcliffe keeps gushing on about how superior the GTR is to other cars they put it against like the F10 M5. So put your money where your mouth is and test it against its strongest rival. I believe that the GTR will be beaten.
Ayrton Atif Indeed. Car Mag compared them and the GTR was slaughtered but it would be very amusing to see how Sutcliffe would try to talk the GTR out of that!
On next weeks show we will be comparing a chicken with a table leg. -_- This show is getting more and more ridiculous with their gasping Sutcliffe and silly content. Can't remember the last decent video from Autocar.
MT just shit out a useless video comparing an old T-Bird with a Miata, yeah you read that correctly. So I guess Autocar found out about that and decided to make an even bigger useless shit of a video by comparing a street legal passenger car with a full blown (track only) race car. What's next, 911-vs-steam locomotive ?
But which can you pick up the kids at the shopping mall in pouring rain? 911 is the best all round car in existence. Track, suburbs, or highways. In all weather, and in comfort.
Not every comparison test has to be a DIRECT comparison, you Yob-Os. Its showing the relative performance differences based on power, weight, cost, etc. - as everyone has a different scale of importance for each category, do the mental multiplication and come to your own conclusion
Drove both at Sepang (although not back to back); the F4 car is just super surefooted through the high speed stuff like turns 5 and 6, while the Turbo S moves around a lot there so you need commitment. The 911 is just *insanely* fast down the straights, though. Ran out of revs down the long straights in the F4, but the Turbo S just kept pulling and pulling and pulling. On a big Tilkedrome like Sepang, I think the Turbo S might just clinch it. That said, my choice would be... the 911 GT3. I was four sec. a lap faster in that car even though it was less powerful and only RWD.
Useless comparison, but damn! 140K for a turbo 991 911! Id rather get myself a used 458 or 12C. I love Porsche to bits but they are in the wrong price range for their cars.
Don't judge the pricerange of cars when you barely can afford to pay insureance for one of them. Porsche is way more value for money, a brand new 458 Italia with the "must have options" will charge you more money than you'll cover in a lifetime! Ferrari are silly expensive and they hold their value like shit! A Porsche costs alot because it's quailty will outlast your life, Ferrari cost alot because they can charge alot, nothing else.
So, for £45k, you could get a track car that is mind-blowingly faster around a track than the 911 Turbo S. And for £12k, you could get a bike that is mind-blowingly faster on the road than the 911 Turbo S. But to get both pretty fast on a track and on the street, you have to pay £141k.
This is a novelty comparison for entertainment purposes. Other than both being vehicles, they have nothing in common in terms of purpose. So to banter about over which is better is beyond reason. I enjoyed the video, but I'm surprised at how many people actually engage in some form of 'debate' as to which is better between these two machines.
I'd like to add that this comparison is done on the F4's turf - a race track. Let's race them from San Francisco to LA down interstate 5 a see who gets there first.(?)
slick formula 1 track slicks compared to that of Porsche specified exotic dressed tires makes a difference especially on on track racing statistics & how much aero efficiency track chassis coverage these have. 911 GT held up understandably in given track arrangement
I think the point in this review is to show the enormous importance of weight rather than power. Weight is way more important than power will ever be. But, proper drivers and car enthusiasts would know that already.
+Matt Gan I'd go with a supercharger, no lag is important in a car like this where instant maneuverability is key! or a small turbo along with a tiny electric engine to remove lag, that would be awesome!
Of course the track-focused F4 car will outrun the 911 over a racing circuit, but isn't it amazing testament to the extraordinary engineering of the Porsche? A true every-day sports car slugging it out toe-toe with a machine dedicated to shaping the careers of budding grand-prix racing drivers. Thats progress no matter which way you look at it!
6 second gap in such a small circuit is a massacre, the porsche is nowhere near the F4 car for racing, and it's not meant to be of course . Incredible car, fast, beautiful, excellent all around, but formulas are built for racing, they will always be in a different league, just never go too slow, you'll cook the damn thing.
LOL....this is an F4 car. This class is specifically tailored for first year race car drivers...namely young kart racers who have never even driven a race car. Sealed motors, sealed ratios, minimal adjustments, you can not even play with the dampers. (3) spring sets you can use. The next class up...F3. An F3 cars has almost 2x the HP (300-320), wider and grippier tires, and will go a LOT faster. In this track, and F3 car would lap in the 1:05 range in the hands of a proper driver.
Which is the average speed on this short twisty track ? I guess the F4 would be quicker even on a longer and faster circuit as like as Spa...do you agree ?
@@INDIGOBLUE555 actually no....an F4 does not have a lot of power, and has more drag than a properly engineered sports car. Its advantage is in the corners. A fast track like Spa or Monza would actually give the production car an advantage. But move up to an F3 car...lol...there is not a street legal car in existence that can compare to a car of that level or higher.
@@shooter7a Thanks for your answer. I agree, an F3 would destroy any street legal supercar on most circuits let apart ovals. I guess even at Monza an F3 would lap quicker than any street legal car.
I skipped to halfway through to see if it was worth it. Yes it's pretty obvious that a single seater is faster. What a good use of an F4 car, Porsche, race track and camera crew. Oh and please stop whispering when dubbing the comparison, it's not a durex advert. Now do a video that makes sense ffs. What a waste of time
If you went back to an old school formula ford, with no aerodynamic downforce, it would be a reasonably fair - and interesting - comparison. But this is a bit like comparing an apple to a donkey - sure you can, but why would you? It doesn't MEAN anything.
I don't understand these comparisons they do. Its like big manufacturers give them random cars and they put them against whats lying about. Would've loved to see the formula 4 car against one of the track day cars like a bac mono. Or even an exige or elise with an engine transplant.
Formula 4 are declared the victor because it's not just the speed that the break horsepower increase, also lightweight chassis that has the abilities to hande the corners and turns that retains the medium speed. 😀🏁🏎👍
In my opinion, all that the Porsche needs to keep up with the f4 car is a much stiffer damping and a much lower suspension height! Also let's not forget that the race car has slicks! Those alone give it a 4 to 5 seconds advantage!
slicks and suspension alone wont buy 6 seconds on such a short track the car will have to lose at least 300kg wear slicks and racing brake pads braided steel lines racing brake fluid and to keep temps at bay your talking about a full revamp in the oiling bracking and radiator cooling system so your talking forge wheels no battary or lithuim battary and no ac no trim single bucket seats and alot of carbon composite parts and more aero like gt wing and canards and spliter but by that point its pretty much a fia speced gt car
I don't get that, they say "for less than a third you can get a formula 4 car", but what if i want to use my car anywhere else than a racetrack, for example a road?...... Comparing these two is a nonsense
so you're comparing a 4 seater(almost) 1600 kg(Empty) 550 bhp all-wheel-drive road car with normal tires to a 1 seater open wheel 200 bhp 600kg(when you're in it) track car with slicks? Hardly seems fair. Let alone the power to weight ratio, aerodynamics alone made it hilarious.. If f4 car had 150 bhp or so, then we could talk.. Really intreseting video however.. Good job!
Racing car beats road car on a racetrack, news at 7! Always wondered why more people don't buy things like this F4 car for trackdays, amazing performance and not outrageously expensive either. Comfortable road car with a trailer for your racing car >>>>>>>>>>>>> track car with plates in my opinion. Why compromise?
So what this video establishes is if you want a track toy, you can save yourself nearly £100,000 and embarrass just about any supercar...(assuming you have the required talent)? If only I had £45,000... ...and talent.
It has 560 bhp, not 552. Autocar always displays lower horsepower and torque figures than the manufacturer claims and i fucking hate that. Biggest mistake being the Bugatti Veyron, they claimed it had 986 bhp when it makes a soild 1001 bhp. The goal of the Veyron project was
The Turbo S accelerate quicker for a moment with 321lb/ft/ton but the F4 have better power to weight ratio, downforce, frame advantage, with less push and understeering. Yes the 911 Turbo S's all wheel steering did avoid understeering and let the car to reach very very close to the apex but still, that's not enough to overcome F4's downforce grip. The extreme torque and horsepower'll create push for the Turbo S. However, that is a F4 car, GT car won't beat a F4 car until they puts on slicks and race car frame+ downforce packages.
"It weighs less than 600kg... Even with me in it!" LOL Oversized gokarts being raced by future pro drivers. Kids who weigh around 50kg dripping wet... the power to weight ratio is mind boggling!
Why do you think that lowering the car and making it lower to the ground is also part of the key to speed and weight. Both of these are to be kept in mind when making it a faster car with only 200 HP this is why balance is key. But still for a road legal car the Porsche 911 Turbo A along with the NSX or any of those other rockets are still desirable with everyday use. Somethings cant breach into the extreme unless well its extreme F1. But for nothing comes close to an F1 experience on the track but were talking about road cars you can never go wrong with Porsches Offerings.
Not enough is said about the fact that the F4 car weighs LESS THAN A THIRD what the Porsche weighs. 515kg vs 1605kg. That's a huge difference, especially when it has fat racing tires. The power to weight ratios are actually similar in these cars, but mass is mass, and a circuit with any turns in it is going to slow down the massive road car.
For years we have heard countless environmentalists complaining about seeing 5 seater cars with only one person in them on the daily commute . If we all drove formula 4 cars they would be happy, yes? This is proof for nothing other then environmental reasons we need to make formula 4 cars road legal.
Jon Jennings can't argue with that
Jon Jennings then they would argue to use electric vehicles formula cars lol
Everyone would have fun, and everyone would save fuel. Plus F4 cars are super safe.
best comment
Formula 4 cars are road legal as long as you don’t get pulled over. And at that point you can only get pulled over if you let them pull you over
Wow, the F4 car seems like a hell of a lot of fun for the money!
2017
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If you only drive on race track, the F4 is a superior choice.
Why is everyone commenting years?
"It's not how fast you can go. But how fast you can KEEP going."
i think lap time wudv been more shorter had the porsche drive wudv cut sown the wide turns like the formula1 driver did
2016
Straight facts
@@mileswoods2527 the formula car can maintain and sutain that pace for the whole grandprix while the 911 turbo will start to heat sock after 5 or so laps
For me Porsche obvious won. You can came by Porsche on track, have fun and go back to home. On evening you can go for date with girl. In f4 car you can't. You don't have slicks on 911. Weight difference is X3, comfort difference is x30. You can try longer distance on this cars (tires, fuel) and Porsche could won. It's all about regulations and FUN.
Why are people complaining about comparing these 2?? There are a million videos already comparing a 911 against R8's, Ferraris, GTR's etc, etc, etc... This is something different! Finally!
Jack Thorpe Well for you we have a new video, just because you want something different, are you ready? The Porsche 918 Spyder VS. The Mall Walker. Think about the weight difference, this one could be close!
@Radeon__ BTW Amazing isn't it? What do people like that do with the REST of their lives?
"Simplify, then add lightness". It's a shame modern sportscars are so far removed from that philosophy. This Turbo S weights 1605kg (3538lbs). Ridiculous...
Safety is important too, Porsche has to cater for both good drivers and people who think they're good drivers 😂
911 has comfort, single-seaters has none, its a boneshaking ride from hell! comfort = adding weight, but modern sportscars has gone to far from lightness and simplisity
@@torevenheim9607 boneshaking ride from hell is what sports cars should be about.
A110
Bro it's a road car, luxury car. Not for me or you (i think) because of budget. You can compare Porsche 911 rebuild for racing and than compare this cars even with f3 or F2. (Equal cost of build + add cost per use for season). 911 here even don't have slicks...
next comparison: tricycle vs. nitro fuel dragster in a quarter mile race
Actually, I would like to see maybe a Bugatti SS v. a Funnycar. That would be kind of interesting.
You're an idiot, dude. not you inklebonker.
Ciber why exactly? They compared an expensive, luxurious 4-seater sportscar to a race car .... ON THE TRACK!
Ganooster Moppy my grandma has a dragster and has just accepted the challenge. I'll be providing the dragstrip
Inklebonker Wone A funny car would make the Bugatti look like a slug
5:38 lol didn't even attempt to make the corner
+sniktun1 the formula car cut every corner that you could cut without going on the grass so doesnt realy matter xD
+sniktun1 2 wheels on the track. Perfectly legit
+sniktun1 I think they're counting the red/white parts as track.
+Ettick is not a fan of motorsport definitely... that's called kerb, dude...
Randy Lasmana
Thanks for telling me, you clearly have superior knowledge on the subject.
Much like a recently engaged woman, weight is the enemy.
ignore the usual sad moaners. This was informative and fun. Thank you
I don't know why people are mad that the Formula 4 car is better. Did you really expect any road car to be as good to drive as a single seater race car?
Yes... a F4 car can be beaten by a hypercar on semi-slicks (like the 918 or the 720s), maybe also by the GT2 RS. Meaning on an average track with some longer straights
@@iseeq72 but not an F3 car. Nothing you can drive on the street will touch it.
@@iseeq72 There is no way, we are faster than the 500hps gt3 arround some tracks (who have slicks, light weight and some aero). It's the fact the cars run lower to the ground and are 3times lighter that makes them that fast
Next: Toilet car with Bugattis 16.4 engine vs Train
+Zellox | CSGO Clips Transrapid? ;)
McLaren P1 would be interesting in this comparison.
oh yeah! I don't see it going 6 seconds faster than the Porsche, but I don't see a 185hp 1-seater beating it either, so...
918 spyder would be as well.
Yeah all 3 hybrid supercars. That way we can gauge what they're actually capable of in comparison.
Ciber At Laguna Seca, with Randy Pobst at the wheel, the 918 holds the production road car record (1:29.89). Fastest lap in Prototype 1 (sports-racers with 1000cc motorcycle engines and about the same power and weight as that Formula 4) at last November's SCCA run-offs was 1:22.397, in a Stohr WF1. It's not close , even when the road car is a hybrid hypercar...
@@DavidKAndersoneven after 9 years the new record for the fastest production car is 1:24ish by the Jesko Attack still a few second slower than an F4 car.
Put some slicks on the Turbo and try again.
Put a turbo on the F4, see what happens.
Take the F4 to the shop to get some groceries....oh wait...
Ref. 911 Turbo
With 100,000 big ones, I can have a couple of nice cars to get some groceries with.
Both cars are great, I sure hoped the Formula 4 car would beat it since that's the one thing it was made to do.
OK, about 1,5 second less in this track. Slicks are not miracles
Okay, so we've proven that a race car is faster than a road car...
Never would have suspected that...
Ferrariman601 Its nowhere near the fastest race car vs one of the fastest road cars...thats the bit that makes it interesting, surely you get that?
If you have money, and want car for track, you must go with formula. Porsche is worst.
Any production car is a virtual bus when compared to a formula car. Only about 150mph in a straight line would that Porsche have the ability to outrun the F4 because of its superior aerodynamics and power. The Porsche is a rolling chicane everywhere else.
911 Turbo S is fast but it is not a track prepared car, its only fast in a straight line. Second important thing is 911 Turbo S is nowhere near the fastest 911 available. 911 GT3 RS would be faster on track, then 911 GT3 RS from 2019 would be even faster as it generates much more downforce than 2015 version, then 911 GT2 RS would be even faster and then 911 GT2 RS MR is the fastest currently available 911 and it could easily make more than 5 seconds of difference. So yeah they should compare it with truly fast, track oriented 911 rather than the one which only appears to be fast.
Third thing is the track choice. This is probably a small, very technical circuit without long straights which favorizes F4. Let's try on a Monza and I bet 911 Turbo S will be much closer if not faster and something like already mentioned 911 GT2 RS MR would just destroy that F4 car. So this is a very biased comparison.
Not all of the road legal cars are slower than race cars. Slow race cars like F4 or maybe something like BTCC may be about as fast if not a bit slower than the fastest road legal cars (and 911 Turbo S is nowhere near the fastests 911s.
@@paulstevens9409 911 Turbo S is nowhere near the fastest road legal cars or fastest 911s. It's not even designed to be fast on a track. 911 GT3 RS would be faster than that, GT3 RS from 2019 would faster than 2015, then GT2 RS would be easily faster than GT3 RS and top of it GT2 RS MR would be even faster than standard GT2 RS. See? The actual fastest Porsche (not that sluggish Turbo S) would probably be as quick as that F4 car and remember this is a very slow, technical circuit. On a Monza GT2 RS would probably destroy it.
So why isn't the Porsche on slicks to be fair?
+Jackie Scholl Fairer excuse him
It's a comparison of road vs race car. It's not about proving who's best just an interesting comparison to watch,
+Jackie Scholl I bet the Porsche would win on a fast circuit like Monza or Spa Francorchamps. It is the same as with the discussion about the Ferrari LaFerrari vs. Porsche 918 vs. McLaren P1: there is not one fastest car, there is only a fastest car on a certain track.
why isnt it a formula 4 car to be fair.....
Monza maaaaybe. Just maybe the porsche would be faster
Spa there is no chance. Spa is fast but it's all high speed turns, the F4 would eat it alive.
So at the full Le Mans circuit the porsche wins by a mile. At the full Nurburgring Nordschilfe, the formula 4 wins by a mile.
Le Mans is a boring circuit with miles and miles of straight road, no wonder.
the Ring is anyway the real benchmark for any car's capabilities.
I wouldn't call Le Mans boring. In the 80s before they added the two chicanes cars did 260 down the mulsanne straight. Even if it is long that's not exactly boring.
TheOne42
You have obviously never watched a Le Man's 24Hr race then.
hvf26 No because its that boring ;)
Yeah no it's difficult to watch a race that's nonstop for 24 hours.
I believe this is actually a very good comparison. It's just informative on the difference between a race car and a street car. The significant difference is in the high speed corners where the aero come into affect. The tyres on the F4 car are not necessarily grippier than the Turbo's tyres. I forgot if the the F4 car uses bias-ply or radial tyres. Even if you put slicks on the Porsche, it would not come close to the F4 car. The better handling gives more rolling speed out of the corners so down the straight the cars equal out. If anything the F4 car is faster down straights because the aero reduces drag. With proper setup and gear ratios, I believe the F4 car can go 1 or 2 second faster at least. You would also have to see how he is on the brake traces in the F4 car. In a formula car, under braking you have to slowly trail off due to loss of down force as you slow down so he might be losing significant time in braking too. Very good driver though!
I agree!
Exactly.... Porsche just useless.... it's heavy and bulky..... F4 car is the obvious choice.
Rarely do you hear someone say that Porsche is useless because it's heavy and bulky. lol But when you're comparing apples to oranges...
is that sarcasm?
go to work and do shopping in a F4 car, very pleasent experience
Dumy Jobby that's why i asked. I obviously think that the porsche is better but some people really like pure performance on the track. nothing more, and for that the f4 car is better.
MarksmanGamingVideos this video does prove though if you are shopping for a track day car don't waste your money on a porsche. I'm sure lots of people buy porsches only for track/recreational use and this video proves there are much better options out there. Fair comparison
NEXT WEEK, on Autocar's Pointless Comparisons: A McLaren 650s vs. a go kart!
That would actually be kind of cool.
What's pointless here? The Porsche has a a huge horsepower advantage which to most people is the only thing that defines the performance of a car. If anything this dispels any notions of that being the sole defining factor of performance.
I imagine the massive torque of the Porsche also helps to counter the weight of the car in comparison to the light F4.
Had it been a racetrack with really long straights the comparison might have been more even.
Why would that be pointless?
On a track i would love to see it
i wish that one day they try a submarine vs i don't know F16??? that is totally fucked UP! but there is a point,you can go faster without spending tooo much! but we can't drive this F4 ON THE STREETS.
Check out the Formula Ford street racer
well of course the 911 is greatly out classed. this was an interesting comparison and I think the 911 did good. It impresses me.
So a street car on street tires, with full interior, against a bathtub on slicks that isn't street legal. seems legit.
I would like to see XBow RR versus a F4 ! I would like to know if its worth investing in a trailer to pull an open wheel car, or if there is a product out there that could roll its way in and out of the circuit on its on wheels.
at SPA francorshamps :
- the Fomula 3 is 30 seconds faster than the McLaren P1 and 35 seconds faster than the 911 Turbo S.
- the Formula 4 is 24 seconds faster than the McLaren P1 and 30 seconds faster than the Turbo S.
Formula 3 best lap at SPA : Max Verstappen 2014, in 2:11,1
McLaren P1 best lap at SPA 2:39
+pakkiaman2 Damn! I need a Formula 4 Car.
+pakkiaman2 It's also probably faster than the current F1 cars from McLaren :v
+Ric Rac hahaha
At Spa, I run the lamborghini murcielago in gt1 . And I never lose.
+pakkiaman2 ...and 2015 pole position at Belgian GP (Lewis Hamilton) was 1:47:197! Just to put things into perspective.
The Porsche is useless on the road. It's FAR too fast, to the point of being entirely irrelevant. I can't even enjoy a modest hot-hatch on the road, because by the time you're actually reaching into the cars ability you're doing twice the speed limit, easily. And that's jail time, and that's just not worth it.
It's a great comparison this - for not much money (not necessarily an f4 car) you can get a single seater that's much more suited to track driving - it won't cook its tyres or its brakes, and every road car will do that after a few laps.
People talk about nurburgring lap times, and this that and the other when debating sports cars - it's all pointless, because its just people arguing about what compromised road car is fastest in an environment where it's as relevant as an articulated lorry.
Modern sports cars have lost the plot chasing speed and lap times and this video, while perhaps revealing the obvious, also makes you think about what you're spending your money for.
I do that with my STI everyday but always looking for police, lol
Sour grapes much?
1) It's not all about raw speed it's about responsiveness and 2) they have this thing called a track. I have an STI. I'll never top it out at 150+ mph. But just using it as a daily driver is fun. A regular econobox feels like driving a tractor in comparison.
msiley
I completely agree with you. Also thinking about handling, grip, sound, gear shifts... Driving a powerful car is loads of fun, even if you don't drive like a madman on public roads. I've got a modest Scirocco, but I enjoy every corner with it. What's an STI, a Subaru?
VentoRdrummeR Yes a Subaru. Before that was a 350Z. It would be hard to go back to normal cars. That's the only downfall of sportscars.
Everyone calm down... This was a necessary test to reset what, we the public, view in our minds as quick. I think the Porsche did very well but it's a street car with air conditioning, air bags, cup holders, etc.. Think about this, if the Porsche races a Formula 1 car, the F-1 team would have been packed up by the time the Porsche finished...
A civic type r could outrun an f1 car
+jack dalisa In your dreams maybe. It cant even outrun this Porsche. The tested Car on the Nurburgring everyone talks about is not serial, it was called a "near serial prototype".
MrBigL100 it's a joke
+jack dalisa as a civic driver (my daily) i definitely agree. f1 car doesn't have anywhere close to a chance. haha nd f1 cars now have only 2 more cylinders! and some turbos. they got nothing on my naturally aspirated inline 4 though! ;D
+Connor DeYoung Racing Video proof or keep dreaming.Show us ur DD with upgrades vs the aforementioned car...
MAKE SURE to post link here of your car where you call me out in video of you as you race.....
shawnkiller90 dude chill it was a joke lmao. Civics are the slowest things on the face of the planet haha
Yes. Slick vs stock. Videotroll of the day.
Slicks are stock on an F4 car
000Haze
That´s what he means. The F4-car with its slicks would have run circles around the Porsche if it wouldn´t have been staged for TV.
lol 552hp vs 189hp lol.
Nizam Ahamad
LOL what? Both cars have the same power-to-weight ratio.
The Porsche won´t accelerate faster with its 1400kg against a 470kg F4- car just because it has 500hp. But the F4-car has slicks and lots of aero.
Nizam Ahamad 470kg vs 1700Kg not only the formula 4 car has more power per weight ratio but it has much more grip due to it slick tyres and aerodynamic, if only the Porsche had slick tires things would have been different
Great camera work and filming.
Bad, very bad research.
Price: ~177500£
0-62 mph: 2,9 s
Top Speed: 205 mph
Power: 572 hp (580 ps)
AWD (actually mentionned in the Video)
Still a fun video. This video is not meant to compare apples:apples. It is intentionally an apples:oranges comparison. Old saying "get the right tool for the job" - In my opinion if you want a great lapping/weekend day car and can trailer, an F4 car is a great option. Inexpensive and you'll be hard pressed to have more fun then that! The Porsche is simply amazing in every aspect, including that you can drive it down, have a tonne of fun and drive home at the end of the day. 2 amazing cars, two difference purposes...I appreciate them both
2019
This match show how weight is much more important than power, when you deal with bends.
But in the real world forget the F4. If you want something light and fast for the real world, try Lotus Exige, for example.
You mean on the roads, because the track is still in the real world.
Well, you forget slick tyres and downforce...
PlagueIsMyName Yes! I forgot that! Thanks to remember!
But the weight is the main issue.
Alexandre Fernandes
The weight yes. But the single seater's center of gravity and roll center are so close to the ground it almost does not roll in corners. It can pull +2g in corners easily.
You can make a very tall car that weights light but it won't do well in corners.
The video also made a mistake. F4 has very little downforce (compare to F3, CN 2liter prototypes, etc), it relies heavily on mechanical grip, not aero grip. It's a go kart on steroid. I track an old Formula Renault 2.0 3 times a year. These cars are naturally faster than any sports car but extremely difficult to post very competitve lap times.
golferchin76 Yes, when I mentioned weight the center of gravity was included. And indeed, the car need a minimum weight to have the necessary grip. Thanks, for your contribute!
Well I found that one very interesting, thanks again Steve.
Typical robot, always exaggerating ;)
Interestingly huge difference in track performance... Wouldnt have guesses that.
If I had to own one it would be the formula car all day long. Basic, simple, effective.
That's racing slick on the formula four car, a wet lap comparison would be more interesting :)
Next up: Cessna Citation vs an F-16 in a dogfight
So next week the Turbo S vs GTR?
Now you're just talking crazy with cars that compete against each other. Next week, the Turbo S vs UK's finest taxi cab. Redemsion for the Turbo!
swinglow33 lol! We need this review because Steve Sutcliffe keeps gushing on about how superior the GTR is to other cars they put it against like the F10 M5. So put your money where your mouth is and test it against its strongest rival. I believe that the GTR will be beaten.
I don't think they want to embarrass the GTR that much.
chbrules that shit is already destroyed.
Ayrton Atif Indeed. Car Mag compared them and the GTR was slaughtered but it would be very amusing to see how Sutcliffe would try to talk the GTR out of that!
On next weeks show we will be comparing a chicken with a table leg. -_-
This show is getting more and more ridiculous with their gasping Sutcliffe and silly content. Can't remember the last decent video from Autocar.
MT just shit out a useless video comparing an old T-Bird with a Miata, yeah you read that correctly. So I guess Autocar found out about that and decided to make an even bigger useless shit of a video by comparing a street legal passenger car with a full blown (track only) race car.
What's next, 911-vs-steam locomotive ?
If you wanna be quickiest on race track-buy formula...if you wanna pull birds on high street buy Porsche....simples!:)
344 Porsche owners watched this video! Take stock guys, the F4 is a designed for the track ONLY. The 911S is a fine automobile by all means.
But which can you pick up the kids at the shopping mall in pouring rain? 911 is the best all round car in existence. Track, suburbs, or highways. In all weather, and in comfort.
Not every comparison test has to be a DIRECT comparison, you Yob-Os. Its showing the relative performance differences based on power, weight, cost, etc. - as everyone has a different scale of importance for each category, do the mental multiplication and come to your own conclusion
Came back to watch this again, enjoy this comparison, and what it tells me about both cars.
Drove both at Sepang (although not back to back); the F4 car is just super surefooted through the high speed stuff like turns 5 and 6, while the Turbo S moves around a lot there so you need commitment. The 911 is just *insanely* fast down the straights, though. Ran out of revs down the long straights in the F4, but the Turbo S just kept pulling and pulling and pulling. On a big Tilkedrome like Sepang, I think the Turbo S might just clinch it. That said, my choice would be... the 911 GT3. I was four sec. a lap faster in that car even though it was less powerful and only RWD.
Cant drive the formula 4 on the street , obviously. Its awesome on the track and priced pretty damn well. Can anyone buy one of these?
A real test would be seeing them both drive on a regular road. Let''s see how that F4 does against potholes.
How well do you think 911 handles potholes?
0-60 mid-late 2 seconds. 911 turbos
Useless comparison, but damn! 140K for a turbo 991 911! Id rather get myself a used 458 or 12C. I love Porsche to bits but they are in the wrong price range for their cars.
It's better then an Italia in every way apart from looks. It destroys it performance wise. Its the right price range.
You get what you pay out of a Porsche, trust me...
Don't judge the pricerange of cars when you barely can afford to pay insureance for one of them. Porsche is way more value for money, a brand new 458 Italia with the "must have options" will charge you more money than you'll cover in a lifetime! Ferrari are silly expensive and they hold their value like shit! A Porsche costs alot because it's quailty will outlast your life, Ferrari cost alot because they can charge alot, nothing else.
its way to expensive for a porsche i agree
well better have at least 50k put aside for your maintenance for your pre-owned Fezza .. nice car and everything but in the real world... good luck !
ayye the guy in the porche you have a bugger hanging out of your nose................just saying
The engine sound of the formula 🔥😍
6 sec slow is amazing . Remember the 911 got every single shit you imagine a/c nav ect.
Wtf is this? What are you comparing next, a Skoda vs a fighter jet as to which can reach a higher top speed?
Why not try 918 spyder vs Formula 4 ?
F4 cant beat that but a F3 probably can
really interesting comparison, i enjoy videos like this a lot
So, for £45k, you could get a track car that is mind-blowingly faster around a track than the 911 Turbo S.
And for £12k, you could get a bike that is mind-blowingly faster on the road than the 911 Turbo S.
But to get both pretty fast on a track and on the street, you have to pay £141k.
Race a F4 with some testing and you are right up there at £100k
is there a good website to buy a second hand formula 4 car?
I wish he'd let the PDK do the work - no doubt it would be faster than him.
Awesome video! Yes, power to weight ratio is key.
How about a GTI vs a P1?
This is a novelty comparison for entertainment purposes. Other than both being vehicles, they have nothing in common in terms of purpose. So to banter about over which is better is beyond reason. I enjoyed the video, but I'm surprised at how many people actually engage in some form of 'debate' as to which is better between these two machines.
I'd like to add that this comparison is done on the F4's turf - a race track. Let's race them from San Francisco to LA down interstate 5 a see who gets there first.(?)
Im still impressed watching the 911 try.
Porsche driver without helmet on the track 🤨😳
slick formula 1 track slicks compared to that of Porsche specified exotic dressed tires makes a difference especially on on track racing statistics & how much aero efficiency track chassis coverage these have.
911 GT held up understandably in given track arrangement
this was fun to watch. thanks autocar.
Would be nice see whatkind of car is in turn 6 seconds slower than the porsche, just to get the idea how big the 6 second gap really is.
Probably like a Golf R or something, or maybe even a GTI.
What if you put slicks on the Porsche?
what if you put 550hp in the F4?
My question is can the Formula 4 be used on normal roads, if so then that ll be so bad ass.
I think the point in this review is to show the enormous importance of weight rather than power. Weight is way more important than power will ever be. But, proper drivers and car enthusiasts would know that already.
Six seconds on that track is like 6 minutes on the Ring
Of course it can't...who the hell told them it was fast enough to even attempt??
Why were they claming that the f4 was a two cylinder when it clearly had 4 pipes on the header?!?
Brandy Niemeyer 2 liter
on a wet track it would be more interessting. Or you could put the 911 on race tires
Put a turbo or a supercharger on that formula 4. that thing would eat up the track!
+Matt Gan I'd go with a supercharger, no lag is important in a car like this where instant maneuverability is key! or a small turbo along with a tiny electric engine to remove lag, that would be awesome!
Of course the track-focused F4 car will outrun the 911 over a racing circuit, but isn't it amazing testament to the extraordinary engineering of the Porsche? A true every-day sports car slugging it out toe-toe with a machine dedicated to shaping the careers of budding grand-prix racing drivers. Thats progress no matter which way you look at it!
6 second gap in such a small circuit is a massacre, the porsche is nowhere near the F4 car for racing, and it's not meant to be of course . Incredible car, fast, beautiful, excellent all around, but formulas are built for racing, they will always be in a different league, just never go too slow, you'll cook the damn thing.
@@culturedsquid8442 not to mention the price difference. you can buy like four of those f4 cars with the price of the porsche.
LOL....this is an F4 car. This class is specifically tailored for first year race car drivers...namely young kart racers who have never even driven a race car. Sealed motors, sealed ratios, minimal adjustments, you can not even play with the dampers. (3) spring sets you can use. The next class up...F3. An F3 cars has almost 2x the HP (300-320), wider and grippier tires, and will go a LOT faster. In this track, and F3 car would lap in the 1:05 range in the hands of a proper driver.
Which is the average speed on this short twisty track ?
I guess the F4 would be quicker even on a longer and faster circuit as like as Spa...do you agree ?
@@INDIGOBLUE555 actually no....an F4 does not have a lot of power, and has more drag than a properly engineered sports car. Its advantage is in the corners. A fast track like Spa or Monza would actually give the production car an advantage. But move up to an F3 car...lol...there is not a street legal car in existence that can compare to a car of that level or higher.
@@shooter7a Thanks for your answer. I agree,
an F3 would destroy any street legal supercar on most circuits let apart ovals.
I guess even at Monza an F3 would lap quicker than any street legal car.
Nice
Proof Ford also make great engines!
*Cant wait to drive my single seater :D*
I skipped to halfway through to see if it was worth it. Yes it's pretty obvious that a single seater is faster. What a good use of an F4 car, Porsche, race track and camera crew. Oh and please stop whispering when dubbing the comparison, it's not a durex advert. Now do a video that makes sense ffs. What a waste of time
Since we're playing the game of exaggeration, how about a shopping trolley v. a McLaren F1?
that is messed up the 911 driver didn't even try to race he was chillen wile there racing idiot G.O.D!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you went back to an old school formula ford, with no aerodynamic downforce, it would be a reasonably fair - and interesting - comparison. But this is a bit like comparing an apple to a donkey - sure you can, but why would you? It doesn't MEAN anything.
I don't understand these comparisons they do. Its like big manufacturers give them random cars and they put them against whats lying about. Would've loved to see the formula 4 car against one of the track day cars like a bac mono. Or even an exige or elise with an engine transplant.
Formula 4 are declared the victor because it's not just the speed that the break horsepower increase, also lightweight chassis that has the abilities to hande the corners and turns that retains the medium speed. 😀🏁🏎👍
In my opinion, all that the Porsche needs to keep up with the f4 car is a much stiffer damping and a much lower suspension height! Also let's not forget that the race car has slicks! Those alone give it a 4 to 5 seconds advantage!
slicks and suspension alone wont buy 6 seconds on such a short track the car will have to lose at least 300kg wear slicks and racing brake pads braided steel lines racing brake fluid and to keep temps at bay your talking about a full revamp in the oiling bracking and radiator cooling system so your talking forge wheels no battary or lithuim battary and no ac no trim single bucket seats and alot of carbon composite parts and more aero like gt wing and canards and spliter but by that point its pretty much a fia speced gt car
Why is this a video, no, obviously, what a stupid comparison.
Light weight always prevails.
I don't get that, they say "for less than a third you can get a formula 4 car", but what if i want to use my car anywhere else than a racetrack, for example a road?...... Comparing these two is a nonsense
so you're comparing a 4 seater(almost) 1600 kg(Empty) 550 bhp all-wheel-drive road car with normal tires to a 1 seater open wheel 200 bhp 600kg(when you're in it) track car with slicks? Hardly seems fair. Let alone the power to weight ratio, aerodynamics alone made it hilarious.. If f4 car had 150 bhp or so, then we could talk.. Really intreseting video however.. Good job!
Racing car beats road car on a racetrack, news at 7!
Always wondered why more people don't buy things like this F4 car for trackdays, amazing performance and not outrageously expensive either. Comfortable road car with a trailer for your racing car >>>>>>>>>>>>> track car with plates in my opinion. Why compromise?
So what this video establishes is if you want a track toy, you can save yourself nearly £100,000 and embarrass just about any supercar...(assuming you have the required talent)?
If only I had £45,000...
...and talent.
It has 560 bhp, not 552. Autocar always displays lower horsepower and torque figures than the manufacturer claims and i fucking hate that. Biggest mistake being the Bugatti Veyron, they claimed it had 986 bhp when it makes a soild 1001 bhp. The goal of the Veyron project was
no
The Turbo S accelerate quicker for a moment with 321lb/ft/ton but the F4 have better power to weight ratio, downforce, frame advantage, with less push and understeering. Yes the 911 Turbo S's all wheel steering did avoid understeering and let the car to reach very very close to the apex but still, that's not enough to overcome F4's downforce grip. The extreme torque and horsepower'll create push for the Turbo S.
However, that is a F4 car, GT car won't beat a F4 car until they puts on slicks and race car frame+ downforce packages.
"It weighs less than 600kg... Even with me in it!" LOL
Oversized gokarts being raced by future pro drivers. Kids who weigh around 50kg dripping wet... the power to weight ratio is mind boggling!
LOL!!! It's so funny how big and clumsy the Porsche looks running next to the F4 car. It's simply amazing!!!
Why do you think that lowering the car and making it lower to the ground is also part of the key to speed and weight. Both of these are to be kept in mind when making it a faster car with only 200 HP this is why balance is key. But still for a road legal car the Porsche 911 Turbo A along with the NSX or any of those other rockets are still desirable with everyday use. Somethings cant breach into the extreme unless well its extreme F1. But for nothing comes close to an F1 experience on the track but were talking about road cars you can never go wrong with Porsches Offerings.
Not enough is said about the fact that the F4 car weighs LESS THAN A THIRD what the Porsche weighs. 515kg vs 1605kg. That's a huge difference, especially when it has fat racing tires. The power to weight ratios are actually similar in these cars, but mass is mass, and a circuit with any turns in it is going to slow down the massive road car.
it would of been a bigger gap if you didn't cut so many corners like you did in the porche, i'm thinking more like 10 seconds