Mini V12 Generator
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- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2023
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DSF-V12 Engine Specs:
Dimension: 216 (L) x 161 (W) x 159 (H) mm
Weight: 4.5kg
Type: Single Over Head Cam, 24 Valves, four stroke
Fuel: Gasoline
Stroke: 18mm
Bore: 16.68mm
Compression Ratio: 9.5
Displacement: 49.89CC
Rev Speed: 2000~12000rpm
Spark Plugs: Iridium Spark Plugs
Cooling: Water Cooling & Dry Sleeve, Gear Water Pump
Lubrication: Splash Oiling with oil passage
Starter: Brushless Start Motor
Piston: Aluminum Alloy, Dual Ring
Ring: 1 × Ductile Ring & 1 × Fluorine Rubber Ring
Firing Order: 1-9-4-11-2-7-6-10-3-8-5-12
Crankshaft & Camshaft: One-Piece, Alloy Steel, Fully Supported
Carburetor: Big Dint, four stroke type
Others: reserved ports for upgrading to independent lubrication
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A small arduino circuit that would monitor the rectifier output voltage (~40v) and use a servo to actuate the throttle to automatically compensate for load.
Big ol smoothing capacitor will help with those.@@maxmaix
Wouldn't even really need an arduino to accomplish it. Could be done with a fairly simple op-amp circuit.
wouldn't even need an op-amp, on old generators they do it with some metal balls spinning around to maintain constant RPM under load
A small arduino circuit that would try and maintain a steady engine RPM instead, it must have a power band. Needs dyno testing :)
Power band rpm when under load, sure. But when the load is low (like < 100 watts), something more towards idle is probably better for fuel efficiency. @@matthewspeller
Just goes to show you the incredible time and effort taken to design generators, and then they have to make them look like a package, and then generally reliable for the average not intelligent person to neglect. Cheers man this is an incredible feat.
They also have to keep 50/60Hz in the output without an inverter, so the engine speed has to be perfect for the specific load
@@dantevito1193correct. I manufacture and repair diesel generators. Depending on the generator design you have to hold 1800 or 3600 rpm to achieve a 60hz output.
It's not that complex, most generators now are made in a way that the rotor of a generator is bolted on one side to the engine via flex plate, basically sheet of metal to transfer rotational force but allow for any inprefections, the other side uses deep groove ball bearing like SKF 6309 most commonly
This allows to you to use any variety of engine generator options without much modifications.
Motorcycle voltage regulators usually work by shorting phases together when there is no 12V load so this is why your engine was loaded. If you want to go that way you may try using a so called series regulator that acts as a line switch instead but they are very expensive.
Also it's better if you avoid running the regulator without a battery connected
Those will still be much less efficient than a proper "buck converter". His current setup is probably the most efficient, although maybe he should switch to 24v instead of 12.
Year ago car charging systems worked that way
He is right. These regulators are not up for this task. If you want to use a bldc, you need a switching back to step it down to 12v dc. You had an unregulated pulsating voltage, in high frequency, coming out of your diode bridge. You fried the inverters with that pulsated dc. I dunno if anyone sells this. For a hardware developer is a walk-in the park
@@wodsonhelenosay nothing about a heat shield for the motor/generator. Needs a vfd for starter and delete original
Some 'dustbin' size Caps would help !!@@wodsonheleno
Put a small 12V battery between the DC-DC converter and inverter. It acts as a capacitor and will both smooth the load on the motor and the voltage out to the inverter
Wouldn't something like 1 farad capacitor be better and simpler?
@@Ziegeri it would probably also work but 1 farad is not a lot. It will not be able to provide even a second of power at a 50w load, while a 5Ah motorbike battery is also very simple and will actually be able to power the same load for over 1 hour without the motor running.(power is not interrupted due to a stall)
The capacitor would be better between the rectifier and dc-dc converter I think.
I'm pretty sure you would have 2 entirely different behaviours from the generator, the capacitor would bearly do anything to help the engine and would result in a very "snappy" generator(motor instantly responds to load). While the battery would give it a very sluggish response, the motor would also continue run loaded after a heavy electric load was removed due to it charging up the battery.
I would try both for fun
@@kissa02 Alright, I am no electrician, just thought it could be enough to smoothen the drops and peaks, and be smaller, lighter and more simple than battery, since I thought you meant lipo battery.
But yeah basic lead battery should be quite simple, don't know if they need any special charging circuitry to not fuck up the battery with constant charge.
@@Ziegerii thought about the battery charge as well, why don’t we use some of the voltage of the battery to help support the load?
Go sodium batteries
you can get fiberglass based muffler packing material that should be a lot safer to use than steel wool. if the timing ever gets off and you backfire and shoot flames into that muffler, you could have a pretty high temp fire on your hands
Johnny takes big boy toys to a new level 😂
Wow that muffler sounds really nice! I mean, it's literally bigger than the engine so it has a big advantage but it totally transformed it
Great job as always. 👏 I have an idea:
Why not using a small car alternator? It usually comes with a built it voltage regulator, that handles high currents pretty well. I did the same thing with a two stroke chainsaw engine lol. You can also use my arduino based throttle / load controller. It is based on a P.I.D. controller so you can easily set it up for your needs 😉 let me know if you need anything and keep it up!
but wait
they only generate two volts
gonna need alot of those
@@gamervaze1car alternator would generate 12-14 volts...
I recommend adding a capacitor bank (something like 4700 micro farads and 50 volts at least) after the 3 phase rectifier because the output of a rectifier bridge isn't pure DC. It has a ripple, and that may be what is messing with the rest of the circuit. Also, you could get a cheaper DC-DC buck converter that can handle that kind of load (in case you blow it up).
That knocking at the end got me laughing lol.
I know its not a the engine breaking but it just reminds me when Jeremy blew up his Maserati V6 on the cheap supercars challenge.
The motorcycle voltage regulator used in your setup is a shunt type which basically shorted the output coil when there is no load. You need a series type voltage regular, for example, SH775A from Shindengen. You also need to connect a battery or a large electrolytic capacitor at the output to work properly.
Really fancy would be using the generator BLDC motor as a starter as well.
Good work; you clearly put a LOT of work into this. It's about time someone took one of these model engines and actually put it to a practical use.
Sad too see it didn't work out. It was the coolest gen set I've seen, rotary (10A), which was half compressor half engine sounded weird but work good. As always love your work
V12 genset, not what I was expecting from a model engine channel!
Cant wait for a V10, it must sound amazing
Most motorcyle regulators work by just shorting the input (3 phase). So they are always drawing full load. Its inefficient, but simple and reliable.
That's really cool!
hope you get it fixed and running
The motorcycle "rectifier" is also a regulator utilizing the "shunt-regulator" principle. It shortens the generator coils outputs with thyristors when the voltage exceeds 14V at DC. This is a huge waste of energy, but within a MC engine, the stator coils are oil-cooled and so this cheap works and is used mostly.
hearing it on my headphones the exhaust sounds great and in my opinion it actually sounds like a generator
I really enjoyed your video, and it shows just how much work goes into making the generators that can be purchased ready to go. That said, I don't think you were too far off. Regulators as far as I'm aware always need smoothing prior to being fed into anything... I feel that was your problem, as the output converter probably hit a LV state, shut off (VERY briefly) the voltage skyrocketed, and in doing so would have damaged it's own circuitry, and if the output was somehow shorted to the input (MOSFETs probably), would have then blown your 12v inverter.
YAY!! Epic! Love these videos Jonny!!
This is a stunning build brother!!👍👌
That is one very expensive yet very cool generator. I would be the king of the camping community if I rolled up with that beauty
You all should definitely look into building a replica Merlin. Theirs a major fan base for that engine from ww2. Great video as always!
Finally a nice sounding model engine :)
I’ve never been so early, love your videos!!
Nice bit of engineering mate engine sounds awesome
Finally a new video. And it looks really cool
4:43 wow the brushless motor is louder than the exhaust coming out the muffler
awesome!
make another rotary, but this time a 5 rotor, and put it on the same generator rig! Epic work by the way, keep it up we love watching it!
Small car alternator from the wreckers. Should be pretty cheap. Then convert to direct drive with that bellows. You may also need an alternator regulator (modern alternators are often controlled by the ECU - so that function needs to be replaced). Then you'll have constant 14.4V output from an alternator that is fit for purpose (Air cooled) and is likely capable of delivering 1kW of constant electrical power (whether or not the engine can supply that much power is another question).
Johnny q followin that torque curve😂👍
This is great!!
Nail down rpm, at all loads.😊
Been waiting for another video from you 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Hi, I'm a mechatronic engineer. I just speak based on my perception, first the BLDC motor is not design as a generator. Second, there are too many step of power conversion such as rectifier for converting 3 phase ac to dc passing through 12v regulator and step up to 120ac. Maybe you can try a generator direct charging 24v battery, then connected to inverter to produce 120v ac. Like this the battery acting as a buffer for the sudden draw of the current spike. Like this it is more practical ussage for daily life.
Apart from the capacitor you blew up, that thing is hella quite, like more quiet than what we have in stores
I would love to see some decibel ratings on that engine at full throttle. Great job.
Someone send this man the new CISON OHV v8. Looks better than any others I have seen besides the conleys
ive always wanted one of those little engines.
You engines are getting bigger and bigger xd
YES! I was hoping for this ❤
Gert great Caps will solve all your problems! Great work....cheers.
Really cool!
Its better to use active rectifiers indeed.
And why not simply use any cheap DC-DC buck converter with wide input voltage range for 12V stabilisation? You'll be able to rev the engine and get all the power.
You need a big capacitor efter the rectifier to stabilize the voltage, as it will fluctuate a lot with varying load, which the buck converter probably will struggle a lot with handling without a big capacitor.
Also there are inverters supporting a wider range of inputs, that'll be better suited for your need.
Very creative of you, Jhonny. Very cool! If you can, try using an electronic governor to control the acceleration as the load increases on the generator.
As for the inverter, I don't know if there is one for sale that works with an input of up to 60v. If one of those exists, it would be ideal for this application.
I think that to choose a brushless motor as a generator, one must evaluate its maximum rotation while receiving the maximum tolerable voltage when it works as a motor, properly speaking. If, as a brushless motor, it has a very low rotation and is receiving a high voltage in the phases; So, as a generator, less rotation will be needed so that it, functioning as a generator, provides its maximum performance. This is because there are engines with lower speed ranges and others with lower speed ranges, but if the engine does not need to reach the red line to deliver the generator's maximum power, it means that in this type of application it is even better.
This video is a fulfillment of my childhood engineering dreams. Literally, but my fun with electricity ended when I plugged a small engine from an RC car straight into a 230V socket, and then I blew up both the engine and the traffic jams halfway down the street hahah
An ordinary 12 volt generator from a car is ideal here.
In addition, it is convenient to adjust the load with it. As a load for measuring power, you can take halogen lamps of 12 volts 65 watts (or more powerful).
50cc should be capable of around 1000w fairly easily, given that my 10KW generator has a 408 cc motor. I don't think that little 65 watt light bulb is going to be much of a load. I think he would need a blow dryer or something else where he can increase the load dynamically.
you mean an alternator right?
@@chubbysumo2230, you can use a dozen (or more) of these bulbs, turning them on in parallel. This will be enough to test such a generator under load and measure the output power.
The beauty of it is that the number of parallel light bulbs can be varied as needed. In addition, they operate at low voltage and there is no need to convert electricity to mains (110 or 220 volts)
@@coler154, yes, cars usually have a three-phase alternator. Usually it is combined with a diode bridge in one housing, so the voltage at its output is constant (pulsating, to be more precise)
@@Ilya_GThe three phase raw output of the alternator is immediately converted to DC, which in many cases is also regulated on the alternator itself. The frequency of the DC ripple will change with motor speed, but honestly that might be your best bet, because the regulator will vary the field applied to the alternator to help stabilize it. Plus, you can go full throttle on the V12 and not hurt the alternator especially if you're direct driving it. Even a small alternator for a tractor or something like that is 35 amp or so at 12V so you're highly unlikely to damage it. I think you'll find the limitations of that engine's cooling system and water pump long before the alternator has a problem.
The engine should be installed in a go cart; it's fantastic. Using it to power a generator is wasting its greatness.
Alex, from the RUclips channel "2 stroke stuffing" took the small four cylinder engine that all the RUclipsrs had been receiving, and put it on small bike..... until the crankshaft broke. He has been very busy with his own engine lately, but still, I would love to see something like that with the 50cc v12. I am absolutely sure you could make that happen, I don't know if others would have the ability to adapt the crankshaft the same way you would.
I hadn't seen any of his videos pop up lately and I was trying to remember if I had blocked him or if he had quit making videos. Dude was letting booze ruin his life, got annoying
Just amazing....every time! Thanks
I swear I said in a previous v4 or v8 video that making one of them a generator would be pretty damn awesome, a V12 genny would be pretty damn glorious to take to the RC park for field charging!
Johnny - did you uncouple the electric motor and see how the engine ran with it uncoupled? The way the inverter crapped out, it may have borq'd the electric motor OR the electric motor borq'd everything?
As for smooth power delivery maybe use a couple 12v UPS batteries in series(they are kinda small, 154mm x 94mm x 65mm) after a capacitor to help smooth out the numbers and handle surges?
BTW I still want your PocketNC man! 🤣
probably exactly what the designer of this v12 thought his motor would end in;)))
Thanks. Great video, as always.
Have caught 1 of JQ90's videos in a bit, man it's insane that he has nearly 2M subs now, I remember watch his vids year ago when he only had 100K+.
Your asking us your the genius lol I'm impressed with every video you'll fix it
You get invited to someone's house, ask for a phone charger and they pull this
The motorcycle regulator is doing what it should! You have a generator capable of putting out hundreds of watts of power, and in an unregulated state the voltage was around 40. The way that regulator works is that if the voltage is too high, it grounds it out through a resistor. So you push 40 volts in and the regulator just wastes away power as heat to force it down to 12-13 volts, pulling the full 150 watts that generator was able to produce in the process. If you connected up a load which could draw 150 watts, the regulator would do nothing, since the voltage would already sink down low enough.
This channel is the best.
You could use VESC with your bldc motor as a smart rectifier. With it's LISP scripting it would be quite easy to add servo output for active load control.
Try adding a capacitor at the rectifiers output, to stabylise the dc voltage.
Should be a pretty beefy one
Nice work ! Awesome.
Those old school motorcycle regulators are designed to essentially dissipate excess energy as heat as opposed to reducing the output of the generator so it's essentially running at 100% all the time. More modern MOSFET style regulators are more efficient but neither one of them are really designed to be run without a battery as a buffer so I don't know if either will really work for this application.
How did u simulate the kitty noises in the beginning? Lol. Does kitty appreciate your rc engine addition?
Freaking cool either way!
The most important thing to do at this point is to use a motor controller as your rectifier and have a small battery to regulate your output voltage. One of those little Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries for backup power supplies would be fine. Additionally, once you add a motor controller the motor's qualities need to be chosen to output no more than the desired voltage at the max RPM you'll run the generator if you use a BLDC motor.
Finding something that outputs 12V in the size motor you have at 10krpm might be difficult, so finding equipment that runs on 48VDC nominal might be a better option. Alternatively, you can rewind the motor with fewer turns than stock to make a 12V motor for yourself. As long as the phase output voltage at the load RPM never goes above your target battery voltage, a motor controller can boost the output voltage to battery voltage under regenerative braking. A VESC6 or one of its larger variants would likely make a very good option for such duty.
You’ll need throttle control for the stable voltage, and a capacitor inline before your dc-dc converter. That should normalize the output voltage and add the arduino to control the throttle at a set voltage or current.
Try hooking a hydraulic pump to it and split some wood? That wood be cool! LOL
You should use a capcitor after the recifier to smooth the voltage and also you should use a fuse directly after the recitfier. Also everytime your engine will increase its throttle a little bit you will get little voltage spikes that will go over 40V without any problem.
Well done, I want to try it
You can try an AC generator and use a PID controller to keep the engine speed stable through a servo connected to the throttle.
You should add a bunch of 100+V rated caps on the rectifier output. Then have a small ish 12v battery on the buck converter output. This should make everything work much better
Fantastic performance
What I would use is a small car or boat alternator, some versions have very efficient voltage regulation and could be easily used with a dc to dc inverter, you could also use a small 12v battery as ballast to help control the instant load on the inverter. My guess is that’s probably what killed your inverter capacitor. Also, consider some sort of governor to keep the engine at a fixed rpm
Alternator to diode rectifier to Solar charge controller to battery. Inverter from battery. Also might want to consider a governor to increase the torque when the load increases.
If you go for a higher KV brushless motor (or re-wind the one you have), maybe around 350KV, you should be able to lower the output voltage quite a bit so that it's around 12v, so you won't need a dc-dc converter. Or try using an inverter with a higher input voltage - you can get 24, 36 and 48v inverters, in addition to the 12v ones.
That and a big capacitor to smooth out the ripple, and a governor to adjust the throttle to maintain a steady output voltage, and it should work a lot better!
I would go for a car alternator and a pb battery as a buffer and to help regulate the voltage output.
Wow, thank you!
Super travail 😮utilisez une DIODE ZENER, a brancher entre le + et - , qui bloquera la tension a12volts, j'avais une moto débridée qui l'avait cramé un boîtier CDI, j ai donc installé cette diode pour protéger le boîtier et ça a fonctionné parfaitement
The problem its when the engine gains load it tends to lower the rpm. You need something that accelerates the engine as the load is put on it so that the rpm is constant.
In professional groups a pick-up is used that measures the rpm of the crankshaft and a solenoid that actuates the accelerator so that the rpm remains constant.
JohnnyQ90 better start a mini generator company LMAO
You can also try a MPPT solar panel controller. It has a wide input voltage range and you can use it to charge a battery. You'll probably need more capacitance after your rectifier as well. Good luck!
That is a great idea since they are designed to handle wider input voltage ranges, but if you use an MPPT controller, make sure it has an input current limit.
😅that is truly a work of art something to marvel all engineers out there😊
Dude this is the coolest channel ever. Like fr. Also I love rc cars as well I see you got some on here. Like my stanpede 4x4 vxl I just bought new broke the pinion on the metal gear so I might actually get a Traxxas center diff and all that pre assembled and go back to the stock pinion or use a Robinson racing lol. Idk it's weird. Anyways, my traxxas trx 6 I'm converting it back to stock because it was my first rc car i had that got ne in this hobby
I'm building my udr too before summer starts again all metal all that good stuff. Everyone loves it when I drive it, like I had a gf over the summer that loved the udr haha. Yeah btw I had traxx on my trx 6 and I'm converting it back. That's what i mean earlier.
Axial scx 6 didn't have a good time tho because the driveshaft just came off
Really amazing nice job, now thats something cool to show to some frend. Relly cool 😎
Most generators run at a set speed about 3000 rpm and contain an AVR to stabilize the load to engine rpm so that it remains constant and hence output stays the same. And as one guy says n Arduino could do that if you the skills to program it. You can buy AVRs but they are set for ac 120v or 230v.
very cute! Hella 'spensive generator tho!
You should try putting a lithium motorcycle battery into it to smooth the voltage. Some sort of battery that is intended for direct automotive use of constant charging/discharging. I imagine the inverter and the DC to DC converter would be much happier with it though to have it before the DC to DC you would have to ensure you can control the output voltage to keep the battery happy though. On the other hand, a bank of capacitors is probably the most common solution to the problem of voltage smoothing, and depending on the capacitors chosen they wouldn't care quite as much about some voltage change. But they likely wouldn't have quite the added storage capacity built in that a lithium battery would.
@JohnnyQ90 the bldc motor/alternator is shortcircuited because it was overheated, meanwhile it probably produced voltage spikes (voltage exceeded 60v) that breaked the dc-dc convertor and the invertor. Your design is almost perfect except the bldc motor needs to be cooled.
So i think you can use a "water cooled bldc motor" as alternator with exactly the same system and it should be fine. Or using a car alternator instead water cooled bldc motor + bridge rectifier + dc/dc convertor would be much easier.
Additionally later maybe you can add an arduino for automatic throttle controlling for constant rpm
Connect small car alternator or motorcycle such from Yamaha FJ or FZR series, BMW R or GS series, older Triumph Tiger 1200. In this case, 12V lead acid battery is mandatory. But is highly efficient!
The motorcycle rectifier has a scr which shorts the input to regulate 12v
Really great, if it could be integrated into a radio-controlled car it would be great and marketable 😊. Have you thought about doing FPV with screen/steering wheel and gear shift as if you were in the car?
I have one of the Wilesco T125 Model Steam Turbine generator sets. At full steam and load the small generator makes about 14vDC and 9 amps with about 25 psi of steam. It could charge your dead car battery, if you kept the water in the boiler and the ceramic burner lit and weren't too greedy on the load. It might wake up some sleeping dogs(yes). lol!.
Making a “Combined Cycle” Plant with some sort of Uniflow Steam Engine or something using the exhaust heat from this could be neat lol
(Granted I’m unsure how much heat is in the exhaust. If we get into Organic Rankine Cycle (ORC) Level stuff that may be too difficult idk, would love to see either way)
Also AMAZING build as per usual, keep up the great work!
What can i say to get a ton of likes on my comment?
I'd also love to see just a straight steam generator! Not nearly as efficient in all likelihood, but man steam is just cool (or hot if we're going literal).
Naa use exhaust heat for a Stirling engine way more efficient and simpler
@@TheLtVoss now there's an interesting idea. Use the heat from the exhaust on the hot side of the Stirling engine, and use the cooled coolant on the cold side (if it's cold enough anyway).
@@TheLtVoss I love them as well, but Stirling Engines can be a bit weak if I understand correctly. Granted i need to read up on them more, and i have seen large ~1kw Versions (One diy on RUclips solid fuel fired, an old company made a solar thermal one, and some Solar Thermal Heliostat Dishes use them)
I’d say steam piston engines, or even turbines to an extent, are more accessible and more proven.
I am 100% down for anything though, heck could even add M o r e S t a g e s To the whole combined cycle, although that adds even more complexity for diminishing returns.
I think a simple Muffler (or even catalytic converter / “afterburner” for more heat) derived steam generator, and a piston engine (although this may need a custom design (high efficiency uniflow, maybe even electronic valves 👉👈) as most models are just that, short of the ones like @Blondihacks made) could produce a decent bit of extra heat. Could maybe pre-heat the Boiler Feedwater with a Liquid-Liquid Heat Exchanger on the Coolant Pre-Expansion Tank/Radiator.
(Edit: Typo Fix + Minor Clarification)
So the motorcycle rectifier is putting a heavy load on it because it's shorting it to ground. You don't have a 12 volt load on the system so it immediately gets up its 12 volt limit, And then it basically shorts to ground putting all the energy as heat. That's why you see the big load.
What you want is a switching regulator that just disconnects when it goes high.
For this to work really well what you want to do is use something similar to what solar panels use and take the variable voltage generated by the motor and feed it through a solar style switched regulator to the battery. Then you connect your power inverter and everything else to that battery. All of that stuff stay safe and never sees those voltage spikes. The battery kind of absorbs it along with the regulator. And it gives you a buffer so you can rev up the engine if the load is getting high to keep the battery charging or if there is a sudden current draw the battery can compensate until you change the speed of the motor again.
This feels like an asmr
you need a big capacitor on the output of the rectifier, its why its unstable
Maybe a Buck Converter ? Can go from your output voltage to your desired voltage .. Just a thought !
that DC to DC converter has written as the 24input and 12v out put. you did input 40v+ from BL motor to that. may be that s why it blew up.
JohnnyQ90 probably has a different engine hooked up to power every item in his house. So the V12 is for his PC, he's got a bunch of V10's for things like his fridge and electric hob and the twin V for his electric toothbrush xD.
Congratulations. It would be great if you add add-ons such as engine temperature, tachometer, oil pressure, exhaust temperature.