REL T9x - Let's be real guys! 🧐 ... Watch this before you buy a T9x subwoofer (Review and DEMO)
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Live review and test of the REL T9x - in this video I give you my sincere thoughts about it after I've been listening to music on it for a few days.
Overall, I do think it is a good subwoofer, but at the price....maybe not the best option (details in the video).
This video is part of my video log which I sometimes take when I am reviewing products.
This is my first REL T9x review - I plan on making some more in the future.
A complete review will be coming out soon once I am confident I have covered everything I need to say.
If you are unsure about your subwoofer purchase, please don't run out and buy a Rel T9x until you've at least seen all my videos on the topic!
Happy to help where I can - just leave any questions in the comments.
Please consider I am in a listening space which is probably very similar to yours!
I do have a room upstairs with acoustic panels which should improve the sound a bit, but will this room sound like yours? Didn't think so!
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WATCH MY FINAL VERDICT VIDEO ON THE REL T9X : ruclips.net/video/EEaFcA8r7TY/видео.html
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100% rel subs are overpriced that along with jl audio there are too many good subs out there
You’ve obviously never heard an REL in a good system. @@dayonerecoverdub3626
Your room is literally an echo chamber with no sound absorption at all. You should not be testing any audio equipment until you fix it.
no adapted living room can absorb sub-bass frequencies - you really should research acoustic absorption panel technology before commenting on my video
@@geezerintotech Dude, you can drop the "I'm an expert" thing.
@@FJBx100 he is right you know. Bass is a few meters long per wavelenght
@@geezerintotech you can clearly hear an echo when you speak. Treatment needed.
Very rightly so, placement (sub crawl), room treatment and finally dsp are key. Subs are tricky. 1 sub also isn't a lot...
Mate listen, your allways going to have a problem as long as you have a laminate floor. The floor is the problem not the REL subwoofer and also your not getting the beast out of your monitor audios because of your laminate flooring. You can't polish a turd, and you can't polish an acoustical turd of a room with DSP! Your room is a acoustic nightmare. Is that a suspended floor as well?
REL makes best music listening subs out there , very very musical where removing of the dry wall is not a priority . Magic is in the upper parts of Subs performance where it is so much more useful than below 30Hz where other sub brands focus and there is sooo much less real music happening there .
My room is smaller and I'm using a T9i currently. Absolutely no issue.
You probably know this, but you could use an A/V receiver with Audessey or Dirac Live to DSP it for you. Any DSP delay would be equal for each channel, and these systems automatically take distance into account. You could still use the high-level input, me thinks, because it the receiver would simply EQ it as part of the front channels (you have it close enough to the fronts that I doubt you’d get an error message). (REL also allows you to use the LFE input at the same time as the high level with A/V receivers…that would be EQ’d too as the “subwoofer”).
Of course the downside is you have to use an A/V receiver….or spring for an AV processor and a dedicated power amp (if you’re not using one already). There’s a Pioneer receiver for $1200 with Dirac Live that everyone on RUclips is raving about.
You do know the REL comes with a white finish as well, which would match your stereo speakers? Readers should note that in the UK you can ask your hi-fi dealer for a discount. I paid less than £1000 for mine from a high street famous name. You need a carpet or rugs to stop that echo, It takes experimentation to get the whole system dialled in and easy to make mistakes. You are right about the intensity of the blue light which illluminates the wall - if using a projector this is not ideal.
I feel you need to put some soft furnishing in your room. To help absorb bass issues.
And is the T9X too big for u.
I guess the T7X or T5X may go better.
These are my opinion.
Thank u for sharing your experience.
The room is so small, speakers need air to breathe. I can understand the issue you're facing, I haven't tried the high level input, I still enjoy LFE. I had a HT1205 and T9x is a day and night difference in bass tightness and impact.
Why does your room have only one wallpapered wall? Did you spend all your money on the sub?
I'll have you know it's called a 'feature wall' actually...
But yeah the sub did set me back 😂
Bass room treatment is your friend; may be by putting some bass absorber in the corners. Your room sounds reflective as well through your recording. You have to absorb all that resonance at 50 Hz. I am not sure that DSP would fix the resonance. May be in your room, you would also be better serve with a couple of Rel t5's instead of the T9.
Thanks for the upload. A couple of things: a) Room setup/ sound treatment would be the easiest way to improve sonics. For instance, from what I can see of you room you are trying to listen to music in the middle of the shortest length of the room. Your TV and speaker/ cabinet should be on the shortest wall shooting length ways down the long side of the room. This would also remove your bass trap (hall way) from the stereo image. After that you could look at sound deadening as the room is on the smaller side (est. than 4m x 6.5m). Easiest first step would be a large rug - This would also soften the aesthetics of the room too. You will find you can increase the volume of your system then and be less likely to 'over excite' the room.
b) Preferably with (a) in place - Your sub could go where your dehumidifier/ air con unit is. This would allow the sub the 'longest' possible firing position (corner to corner) on the long side of the room. c) some stands for your monitors will prevent them resonating into the cabinet they are sitting on which amongst other things will give you a better stereo image, particularly if you take care in their placement (equal distance from the wall and toed in).
:) Good luck
Hello thanks for the suggestions! :)
I guess the point I am trying to make with the video is often people don't have the ability to set the room up as they see fit.
I have a sound treated room upstairs and I chose purposely not to demo the REL in there. Why? Because I know the majority of people are getting this sub to put in the living room where they have space. That's why DSP is handy and will overall sound better.
Also, the monitors are decoupled from the cabinet using ISO Pucks, and the cabinet itself cost me £1600, it's a solid steel frame with MDF construction - not your average stand!
At the end of the day, this is a small-medium sized room - room modes are going to occur and the average person isn't going to overcome these issues!
@@geezerintotech So you purposely rigged the test to make the REL perform as poorly as possible. Seems totally dishonest. Making negative reviews where you rig the results just for views shows how you sell your own integrity for views on your channel.
I think that you might have needed to raise the crossover rather than lower it.
Hear me out, your dip is likely due to there being a gap between the Rel highest frequencies and the lowest frequencies of the Monitor audio Studios.
By raising the crossover, you would narrow the gap. After doing so you might have to adjust gain.
the peak is there because of the room mode - i tried raising/lowering the xover many times and that's where it sounded best. I get what you're saying mate but you can't beat DSP for integrating a sub into a room. The control you have with DSP is so much more refined than a simple gain/phase dial and analogue filter
Literally everything is wrong about your set up for music. Don't blame the Rel before sorting everything else.
you mean, don't blame 'the subwoofer'. Why are you using 'Rel' and 'subwoofer' interchangeably?
I mean.. that's quite a big sub for a small, untreated room with hardwood floors and no rug. Do you have curtains?
rugs don't dampen bass
The problem might be that your seat is too close to the speakers. The room might be too narrow for the T9/x.
I am not certain however, moving the sub to a different location or possibly traps may help?
there'll be a spike in the bass no matter where you put it in that room. Also, traps don't make that much of a difference unless you put them in all the corners, build top to bottom and you need them thick (with an air gap).
That's alot of setup for a consumer sub - hence why people need DSP. Second sub also works but most people won't bother
Surely this is a room issue with specific frequencies, not a subwoofer problem for highlighting it ? I.e Fix your room and you wont get any frequency spikes ? And surely even if you don't and go with a DAC (Adjusted with the appropriate changes for your room) going into your Amp and sub this is not going to affect your latency. I use a RME-ADI-2 DAC and it introduces no noticeable latency. I have a REL 5Tx and It has transformed my system completely even with small spikes that you highlight. I have always seen Subs as a band aid to speakers which should do a better job, but there are very few speakers out there which go low enough to not require a sub at all. In terms of alternatives I also have several other sub brands like SVS and they are so laggy and out of time for money I am definitely glad I went with the REL. Everything with HIFI seems to be a compromise you just have to pick the right combo which gives you the right compromises.
I have a similar sized room with minimal room treatment. I also have the T9X, well to be accurate, I employ 3 T9X subs. Because the gain/volume doesn’t have to be as high, as when using a solo sub, you aren’t so likely to excite parts of the room, plus you get smoother distribution!
Other manufacturers employ ‘high level’ connectivity, but Rel claim the fastest response time.
Yes, Rel have plenty of competition and there are viable less costly options out there. At the end of the day, you pay your money, you make your choice.
As regard DSP. It is just one more signal processor in the signal path. I’m a purest and a minimalist and would prefer to keep the signal path as clear as feasible. DSP can, when done well, clean up the sub 300hz frequency response, but only for a specific area, like the listening position. Stray far from that post and peaks and nulls, manifest themselves.
I have a pair of larger RELs G1-MK2 so I am very familiar with the SW. What is your xover point on the subs? On mine, in a crappy room (I had not much to choose from in this house) I have the crossover set at 27hz. I've used an SPL meter and I can assure you the REL isn't adding anything in the 50hz area. I'd bet the REL i's down at least 12db there based upon a 27hz setting. Your issue is your mains don't play low enough. Your speakers have 4" drivers and are down 6db at 50hz. My subs are paired with 3-way speakers with 8" woofers. You can't easily integrate 4" drivers with a REL sub or any high quality sub. Buy bigger main speakers or set the REL crossover lower (I'd try 35hz) and see how that sounds.
The spec for the Rel only goes down to 27Hz @ -6dB. So at 35Hz, you'd only be filling in the 27-35Hz range, would that be worth it?
I'm no expert, but I really feel that a room your size (that is about the same size as mine) you would have done a whole lot better with a T5X or even better a pair. It would have saved you some cash as well. I really think it's way too big for the application. Just my opinion.
you are totally right. The solution given by the rel engineer is that you need to move around the sub to find the best sounding, meaning a location where the there is a balance or less room gain effect to the bass. But how could that be, because its a room, and no matter where u put it, there will always be a room gain. And it sound silly to have spend more money to have room acoustic treatment just to suit that subwoofer into your space.
Another way they mention is to reduce the crossover slowly. if the room gain happen at higher bass frequency, this crossover might help to curb it down, but what if the room gain happen at 30hz? or even 50hz like what u have there. lowering down the crossover is just not going to help. Said if you have no choice but to lower the crossover down to 50hz, its like almost cutting off all the frequency from 50hz to 120hz...u basically hear nothing exciting from the sub. The tonality just aint going to be there.
In my case, i have the room gain at multiple freq like 30hz and 110hz. so what am i going to do? crossover definately wont going to help, right. so luckily my source is a computer, therefore i am installing the EQ sofware to adjust it from there. But what if the source is from an unconfigurable source...that problem will just stick there forever ...
Conclusion DSP is really very important. Rel sub do have that texture in the bass, but without getting the major issue solve, that is still a useless subwoofer at the end.
well said Bryan.
What subwoofer do you have right now?
@@geezerintotech T9i. But i have no regret buying that sub, because through it, i get to know and realise the fact. It could help me in chooseing the right sub or setup in the future. i think i will get rsl speedwoofer, ryhmik or HSU sub to have a try soon. then with the calibration technique to tune the other sub, and see if has the same texture bass as what rel has. everyone is saying they are very good, and i am curious to find out. let see how dsp + other sub , will it = rel ?
for me i think if the subwoofer has good transient respond, i dont find it why other sub cant have the same texture bass that rel has with the help of dsp. By the way why dont u consider hsu? they have high level input for all their range.
@@bryansu Hi Bryan, great to hear from you again.
I would definitely consider HSU but as I live in the UK we don't have access to those subwoofers :(
I think Rhytmik would definitely be a great option as they use some great components + direct servo technology to get the lowest distortion from their designs - again, USA only I think :(
I think the texture you're describing comes from two things:
1) The T9i has a 10 inch driver - these will naturally be lighter than 12 inch or higher, therefore they are quicker to respond
2) REL seem to make their T-series drivers as light as possible - by making careful choices with materials you can save weight and increase bass resolution again.
However, if you want the bass to dig deep, go low and loud, then different design choices become optimal.
For example, the driver in the SVS PB-16 is made from more robust, heavier material (I think some sort of glass fibre compound), and this helps it produce such very clear, low distortion bass with high SPL below 40hz. But above 40hz that sub begins to show weakness.
So in conclusion, I think something like a 10 or 12 inch sealed design is going to provide similar response to the REL. My guess something like the BK XXLS200 will resolve as much detail, but because it's sealed you also give up some SPL.
It's all trade-offs in this game so you have to pick the best overall sub to fit your needs!
@@geezerintotech i quite agreed with what u say. but until i get the other brand and test out, else wont know the answer. rsl sub is relative cheap, maybe i can get that first..u should try that out too. even audioholics giving them high rating..shouldnt go wrong...perhaps...
@@bryansu yes I have heard alot about the RSL Speedwoofer but unforunately never heard it myself!
Another one to look for is Arendal 1723 2S. Dual opposing 13.8 inch drivers in a sealed enclosure. DSP on the back panel and there is also an app coming out to control from your phone.
Should have no problems hitting the lowest notes but still remain clear in a medium-large sized room.
looks like you have the yamaha receiver, so i wanted to know for the REL hilevel connection, did you connect the neutrik black wire to the speaker tap (-) terminal or leave it disconnected ?
i connected it exactly as in the diagram - i believe the (-) had two wires connected to it
What you are gonna do with the room node at 50-55hz... well.. treat your room.. move the sub around to try and cancle the node.. Sad that a good sub get's put down by a bad room and not enough research on how to fix your problem ;)
Not so much a bad room, just a bad reviewer.
Optimize your room setup and then listen to your system. You said it yourself, you have a standing wave problem, but somehow that is the fault of the subwoofer. Counterintuitively you could add another sub to cancel out some of your room modes.
Maybe you missed the point. The point is, without any DSP controls, those standing wave problems can't be accounted for. Modern subwoofers in that price category would come with DSP controls, giving me the option of applying parametric equalisation.
But REL have this ideology that a sub shouldn't use DSP and instead be connected by a speaker wire to the speakers
@@geezerintotech Because it is a known fact that the DSP in the chain slows the sub down, which makes it slower than the REL and it lags abit behind the main speakers.
The 50-70HZ problem will likely be caused by the 8ft UK ceiling height. Its a common issue with ceilings that height due to the physics of the dimensions and sound waves. Other than Placement and DSP you are totally correct. Deep Treatment would be required to help with a more even response. A room that size your talking minimum 40cm deep bass traps
Is it ported block the port up and turn it round facing the wall you might want to put it out of phase.
for music listening the Wharfedale sw150 is a great subwoofer £150 get 2 10 inch driver seal design
this is passive radiator subwoofer, so no ports. It has a downward firing passive driver at the bottom
Huh? It's connected to the front outs of a surround system? Did you set the fronts to "Large", or are they rolled off? You connect the LFE out from the surround system to the REL T9x LFE IN (RCA) AND you connect to the front speaker outputs too (as in also). Yep.
Judging from your message, I guess you haven't realised that REL use a special terminal (called high level connection) to connect your REL subwoofer to the front speakers using a Speakon connector.
They say it's 'their way' of doing things but in reality it isn't - it's the old fashioned way of connecting subwoofers to your speakers which most companies moved on from long ago
lol not true at all, do more research.@@geezerintotech
@@rx7dude2006 It's absolutely true, the only benefit of having a high level input is convenience. Plenty of subwoofer companies offer this, but don't claim sound quality benefits as there are none.
don't know if you are aware of this, bu having a rectangular room and positioning the speakers on the long side of the room can make you end up in the spot where the bass is just too strong. so using the short walls would enable you to find more comfortable bass. I tried this with a pair of tower speakers. the result was going from too little to too much, however it is good when you have a sub
Easiest test is a couple of area rugs to absorb some of the sound. Maybe, maybe not. Finding the sweet spot/settings is sometimes a challenge. Enjoy the ride. 😊
If you are going to critique any piece of equipment you need to set it up the way the manufacturer recommends or it won't sound correct. RELs are made to be placed in a corner. No freaking Yamaha ( mass producer of all kinds of electronics and a myriad of other products ) sub is going to be better than even this entry level REL. I hope you explain what speaker level connectors actually do in your other video, REL implements it in a way that is correct ( can't speak to the other examples you mentioned ). I'll leave it at that but could have way more to say concerning this video.
why exactly are REL subwoofers different from other subs and why must they be placed in corners specifically (in every possible room on planet earth). I'm happy for people to share how they think things should be done but please also provide scientific detail, because my research into room acoustics says it really depends on the room where the sub is best located.
I also see REL subwoofers as being made for the home, not for the room-treated studio. So please also take that into account.
Also, making statements about a global leader in audio like Yamaha, and assuming they can't make a good subwoofer is a bit blunt and assumptive in my opinion. First, test them and see what you think. I've tested a few higher end Yamahas that don't get much recognition in the 'hifi' world (at least not this part of the world) and they would give any entry REL a run for its money.
And by the way, my thoughts about speaker level connection is that it adds distortion to the audio...no? I thought that's why we always use line level in music studios.
@@geezerintotech Because manufacturers ( and not just REL ) make their products to work a certain way and if you choose not to follow instructions as with anything it usually doesn't end up well. So, your saying the sub distorts due to the high level connection?. No it does not.
Mate, guess what I did?! Mind you, I have the t9i’s, so I got 2 of them. They helped a lot. In your room, I would recommend two t7x’s. Give it a shot and let me know what you think. I still prefer DSP free subs though.
if can try i will let you know!
Why would you recommend the t7x? Im thinking of the 7 or 9 in my room. 3.5 x 7 x 2.2m . Cheers
yeah DSP not a must have.
what he's running 5 1/4" or 6". same as me different brands. my sub's are a pr. of cheap JBL 630 each box has two 7" going thru a PSB first subwoofer amp 100w moving standard 12". review not good. Sure did pressurize the room. Now using smaller and lighter paper cones, bass is now quality not quantity and have them mid way between the ceiling and floor to control the on and off axis to blend as one.
Even though REL recommends having the subs positioned near the corners preferably behind the standmounts and to be honest I can see why especially after doing several sub crawls but its only after i purchased a partner for my Rel Ti series, that I found they gave me a lot more flexibility and thats not just with positioning but with the integration also.
I now have them both positioned near the corners behind my sweet spot (basically out of View) and the best compliment I receive is when friends ask me "how the hell does those small standmounts sound so huge" 😁
stereo subs surely make a huge difference I agree.
You have two T9i don't you?
@@geezerintotech no! I only have a tiny 4 x 3.5 m room, so I went with the t5is. BTW enjoyed this video very much... anywhere where we might pick up some tips is good in our books 👍
@@totalplonker824 Thanks mate :)
Dual T5i sounds like a great choice for that space 👍
Did anyone ever looked inside at the bracing and cabinet thikness of the TX series?! Can´t find any information online...with so many REL subwoofers around it´s strange because it´s only removing a few screws 🤷
what was the model of Yamaha sub you mention you tested last year?? thank you
Yamaha Soavo or something like that
My listening room had similar problems with bass standing waves causing some nasty peaks at certain frequencies. I solved most of these problems with sealed limp membrane pressure bass traps. I used rubber sheet for the membrane and the design equations to calculate the thickness of the membrane and the depth of the trap for each standing wave frequency. I did also used some wide band velocity traps for upper bass and treble absorption. The end result isn't perfect but it's a colossal improvement compared to my original untreated listening room.
Nice review, but I don't know why you refer to the high-level input as "high pass".
High-pass is a filter that allows frequencies above the set high-pass frequency to pass and at the same time blocks the low frequencies from passing, therefore it is a feature that relates to satellites or subwoofers that offer a high-passed output to feed active satellites or power amplifiers that drive satellites.
What this REL subwoofer has, is a High-Level input, i.e. an input that will accept speaker-level signal when your amplifier doesn't have a subwoofer output or pre-outs.
Also this REL subwoofer, like most regular consumer subwoofers, despite the label on the dial, doesn't actually have a "crossover", it only has a Low-pass filter, and in a two-channel set-up where you feed the sub through the high-level input, or through line level input from a preamp, you can only adjust the low-pass frequency of the sub. The satellites do not get high-passed (unfortunately) unless your amplifier has that feature.
already corrected the day i posted the video...think i left a comment somewhere or amended description...i just kept saying high pass and when editing the video i realised...oops
Are you sure the passive radiator is not tuned to 50hz? Maybe that’s the issue.
Thanks for the question.
There is a room spike between 50 and 60hz which occurs with all subwoofers i have tested in that room. Without DSP you can't really address the issue.
Not much of an issue if you're connecting this to an AV receiver, but if you're connecting to a stereo amp without any digital functions then you could have problems like i did
@@geezerintotech Gotcha, rough, wish they stated the tuning of the radiator though.
@@geezerintotech So, then why are you complaining about the sub when you know it's your room ?
Maybe buy speakers that cost more than your sub. There's a start...
i have loads of speakers - those were the ones on show on the day
Add room treatments. A big old rug would do you wonders
lol that's how the story goes
Can hear each in recording. Room must sound bad
Echo
@@akia123 ok thanks for the advice. Just wondering - you say you're hearing echo in the recordings which is produced mainly by treble echo - just wondering your view on how this affects bass absorption exactly?
I say its the ceiling more distance more the smarming in sounds
Dude, you're reading my mind :D Still debating which sub would be good for 60% music and 40% movies :D Thought about T9i for £550 with full UK warranty or perhaps? What are your thoughts, please? I know you have or had Dali Opticon 6 so need something to match them and my Yamaha ASA3000/CDS3000 amp/DAC combo
what's your price range and how big or small do you want the sub to be?
@@geezerintotech up to 1k ideally but could stretch 15% if the value is there? Size wise small would be nice but as long as it not giant size then I'll be happy. When I say giant I mean a sub I.e rel predator. Cheers
@@SzymonMelewski Well, a great option would be the Arendal 1961 1S which competes nicely with the SVS SB2000 Pro.
If you want a bit bigger and want all bases covered then you have the Arendal 1723 2S which will do everything you want and more (bit more money though but you get a 60 day trial at least)
Two subs will most likely be better than 1, so another option is a BK Platinum 12 inch and get two of those and your bases are covered at a very decent price.
If you want more music then you could just get the sealed one if you don't care about the extra bass extension of the passive rad model
@@geezerintotech have you heard the arendals? Theee are my other optuin against rel. Im thinking of the 1723 1s
@@rog86 haven't heard arendal no - but might be getting one next week fingers crossed
I cant see any problem with this sub. You have problem with your room. Try to set your speakers on short wall and then try it
If you want to use minidsp you can without introducing relative delay to the sub. Just add it to the chain so everything goes through it (for example between source and dac). In fact this is the only way to do it as it works in the digital domain. Any delay introduced by it will affect both speakers and sub. This is a non problem.
I totally understand and agree - I have a minidsp so I am no stranger to it.
I just feel it conflicts a bit with REL's marketing, and I also think this would be too difficult for the average consumer to implement.
I think the SVS app tied to their line of subs is a much more convenient approach
@@geezerintotech Rel’ marketing is based on continuity and integration between speakers and subs. It actively discourages high pass of the main speakers for music because it assumes you have decent main speakers in the first place, you have selected an appropriate sub and you have placed it and tuned it correctly. It does not preclude neither states anything about using dsp at the system level. If bass is to be actively managed then this should start at about 200-300Hz and below not at the point of the speaker sub crossover. Managing just the sub is the quick and dirty way of doing it and it is not good enough for music. Btw, two hints from me. 1. Take your main speakers off that huge baffle that piece of furniture is and onto a decent pair of stands. 2. Since you are a musician, use the double bass and the piano as a means of setting up your speaker sub integration not some processed or synthetic music.
Love your videos, I'm looking to use a subwoofer for music only. I have one in the car and it makes a huge difference. I've ordered a powernode and a pair of LS50 Meta's, when they arrive, i'll probably add the SB1000 pro based on your recommendation, thanks again !
Hi Jason. Thanks for the feedback!
SB1000 pro is a good choice - if you live in the UK then the BK XXLS200 or XXLS400 would be great.
If you want a bigger passive radiator then the BK Platinum 12 inch PR is another choice :)
@@geezerintotech What do you think of the T9i as they seem to be discounted quite heavily, almost half the price of a T9X ? Could the T9i be too large for some rooms ? Mine is 15x13ft with 10ft ceilings. I'd be tempted to buy one, but would like your feedback
@@jasonharley8230 i am actually in the middle of testing two T9is. I'll be pitting them against the T9x. So I'll be doing a single T9x vs one T9i...I'll also be doing two T9i vs one T9x because the price is about the same.
I got my two T9is for £675 each which equates to about the price of the T9x.
At the moment they seem very competitive.
Are you subscribed? If you are then you should catch the videos when they come out
@@geezerintotech Yes a subscriber, great videos, even at 56 I learn something new everyday, cheers. I had never heard of BK until you mentioned them in your reply. Does the XXls400 compare to the T9i ? Do you think the T9i would be too big for my room or is it not a consideration ?
@@jasonharley8230 i don't think the xxls400 would be too big for that space. What are you plugging it in to? If it's an AVR then it should calibrate the bass for you with the DSP.
If you want an auto on/off feature you could also try the sealed BK Platinum.
Some might advise if you have no DSP you might be better off buying two smaller subs rather than one larger one for the money. Compared to bass frequencies, your room is small so there will be come problems there.
So for example two XXLS200s or if you like REL, two T5i or T7i.
I have some more videos coming out about this topic soon.
Hope this helps
1. That's too much sub for your room.
2. Rel recommends that the sub be in a corner. Yours isn't there.
3. Did you use the High level inputs? Do that because that is what you do to get the fast response.
BTW, the KC62 is the right size for your room.
Look at the T5 from real instead of the 9.
1. You're a plonker that reads too much REL marketing
@@geezerintotech or...maybe try what the manufacture reccomends and then form an informed opinion based on that? Sorry it didn't work for you.
Have you ever tried British made BK Electronics woofers? They are supposed to be really good quality for the money, I have got one, but I have never compared it to anything else.
yes i have many times - best value sub and you get all the connections - high level, hpf, low pass all with separate control knobs
REL don't believe in hpf so they don't give you that (not cool)
@@geezerintotech I only have an XLS200 MKII, competent enough to crack walls in my flat, the only thing I am missing is a auto power off/on, sorted that with a simple Wi-Fi controlled plug. Good to know that a person with your experience values those subs too! Thanks for your reply. :)
@@tyczekp i am actually thinking of sending these RELs back and getting two XXLS200s myself...trouble is it is so hard to demo them (and the auto on off lol).
How do you rate the sound quality yourself?
I was attracted to these RELs because you have the lighter 10 inch driver plus the passive rad to help fill in that 30-40hz range a bit more...
Most of the market is 12 inch diameter which I wasn't really looking for at this point
But even at £700 each I feel the T9i might just be a waste compared to BK XXLS200
@@geezerintotech sorry, I'm not getting notifications when you reply, need to review my settings.
Sound quality wise, I can't really find any flaws when set up right with my speakers. I bought it to use with Marantz MCR612 and Q-Acoustics 3020 as I knew I would be changing those and wanted the sub to outperform. It was a great and much needed addition. I now listen to Marantz PM7000N with Q-Acoustics Concept 40 and there is not much left for the sub to do. Those speakers get as low as 40Hz, sub adds that low end grunt and frankly, I think it is a bit much for my neighbors. 😂 However again, I cannot really find absolutely anything wrong with the sound it produces. Even if I would invest more in the amp, and possibly speakers, I would not be looking for another sub.
I guess a downside for some could be that if you set the crossover at 90Hz or more and gain at above 80%, you can hear a buzz, however I can't really see anyone wanting to use those settings.
@@tyczekp I wouldn't set the gain to 80% because you'll be introducing distortion and you're limiting the sub's headroom. Best to keep it around 40 or 50% and increase the line level signal to something more appropriate.
I understand speakers can technically go low to 40hz, or even further if you push it with EQ. But the question is how much distortion is there from a pair of bookshelf drivers vs the distortion if a subwoofer were to do that job.
Typically, people cross over at 60 or 80hz - this saves your speakers from playing two full octaves below that frequency at high SPL. This brings back available clean dBs to your speakers. So your speakers should be able to play at the same volume, more cleanly.
One example - the kef ls50 meta (which everybody seems to love except me lol) - people rave about that speaker's bass. But when the speaker was measured it seems below 200hz the speaker starts to distort and even reaches up to 100% harmonic distortion. Doesn't sound great.
If that speaker were to have subwoofer added and crossed over at 80 or 100hz - that would bring distortion down to acceptable levels.
That's the importance of a subwoofer - at normal listening levels it should be the same volume as your speakers and shouldn't really upset your neighbours unless you blast it of course!
I actually get the situation you are trying to depict. You didn't state whether you tried all possible locations in the room though. This scenario applies more towards 2-channel stereo setups. At $1250USD(current cost of this T9X), they'll typically start off with one sub. Everyone's room is different and in your case, one sub without any DSP functionality did not help achieve "integration." So how the heck can someone reduce the 50z or other peaks in their room with no DSP?
Obviously this may be different for people using AVR receivers with built-in DSP or stereo systems with room correction / DSP capabilities.
Here's a simple thought: If I spend thousands $$$ of dollars on gear, I'd try to learn the basics of even just simple measurements to understand what the system is doing in my space using something like a UMIK-1 for $100.
I too was in the market for compact subs due to space constraints and compared the RELs vs SVS subs. The newer SVS subs with built-in app-controlled DSP give one more flexibility. It's not perfect but if I can flatten the signal using the limited DSP, it's a major win before having to go into more complicated solutions like separate room correction / DSPs.
I've mentioned in previous videos that the position the sub was in was pretty much the best location for one sub (plus, there aren't many locations available in the room as it's a living room with furniture which restricts placement).
In a future video, I used two T9i subs and the 50-65hz peak in the room was greatly reduced by adding the second sub.
Thanks for your thoughts
No sound treatment, no carpet, wrong size room, wrong placement, and playing from a compressed source.
I agree, the placement is awful.
He could mitigate the resonance at listening position just with moving it around
Can you review the Tekton 4-10? It's cheap for what you're getting. As the name implies, it has four 10" woofers. 😳
I'd love to review these - but it would be hard for me to get ahold of those in this country.
Looking at the design though, I can work a few things out.
Firstly - you can expect a similar performance to an 18 inch subwoofer. But the typical 18 inch woofer cone should still be more efficient than four 10 inch woofers...so perhaps one 18 incher will outperform the Tekton when it comes to SPL.
The other thing is take a look at the RMS wattage. If what I am reading is correct, that thing is 300w RMS across 4 woofers. That tells me the drivers aren't really doing much i.e. they don't have much dynamic ability and can't shift as much air.
But it really depends on what you want to use it for - for music, this will be enough wattage - for movies, not really as most 18 inch subs for movies (or loud music) are over 1000w RMS and are designed to move alot of air.
Put your woofer where you sit, and then get on your hands and knees a find a spot where 50 - 60hz is the quietest; put your sub there.
then you'll lose bass output for the rest of the bass range
Hello everybody I own this subwoofer and I absolutely love it the best sounding subwoofer I have ever heard in my life I has subwoofers for as much as $4000 but this is my favourite one thing was wondering I noticed the light on the back never turns off which means I think the subwoofer never goes on sleep when it's not in use does it mean I have to turn it on and off every time or can it be left like that please help me with this thank you.
Thanks for sharing
I have the T9i and there is no auto power off either, so I plugged my REL into a home automated ( HomeKit) receptacle and I turn it on and off as I need it with my phone or Siri, works great.
The power draw on stand by is incredibly low. Best to leave it on.
REL recommend keeping the sub-woofer on in standby -, need to keep those capacitors charged.
Great points/counterpoints regarding DSP/non-DSP. I search out and enjoy these vids from common folk perspectives...myself, I am leaning towards 2 lesser quality subs (than Rel), with DSP, and DiRac for my AVR. I also only have 3 possible spots to put 2 subs, room treatments aren't gonna happen, so I think I need all the software assist that I can get.
I think when looking at their specs your room would be considered small. A medium room is around 400 sq ft. Or 37.2 sq meters.
Sir, do you know nothing of room acoustics and what one must do to adjust for them? First I'd suggest a lovely thick oriental rug on your floor. A big one. Next a couple ceiling panels and bass traps in your corners. More cushy furniture will help too. Speaker placement is not even almost enough! A big thumbs down on your poorly considered video. Please watch a few RUclipss on adjusting for room acoustics. You may find it lifechanging.
This guy is breathtakingly dim 😮
So I understand there are subs that are overpriced but what sub do you recommend for 8 inch sealed that is almost as good as the tel. Sq is priority for me not so much spl
I'd take the Kef KC62 over this REL if you're not prioritising SPL.
Even better value - I'd prefer a used Kef R400b if you can find one. Best of both worlds
@@geezerintotech oof the kc62 is expensive tho:(
@@radiospankin this country the kc62 and t9x are almost the same price.
Try and find a R400b on eBay. I think that's easily the best value
You really should invest in some sound absorbing panels before buying any more equipment.
you are wrong - regular sound panels are very poor aborbers of sub bass.
Perhaps better to do your research prior to leaving comments?
@@geezerintotech So get good ones, Duh!! And set up a REL properly so it sounds the way it should.
You telling me to do more research is comical.@@geezerintotech
Room placement is key, DSP isn't gonna help you.
Not a good set up. Not doing REL any favors here. Very amateurish camera work.
Always try moving it a few inches from the wall or closer to the wall till you find what sounds best
No response and my comment deleted? Really bro?
I saw your comment in my feed and tried to respond, but youtube automatically deleted it (or maybe you did 🤔 )
I remember your comment was something like you're a 'bass god' or something 😂.
I mean... how do I even respond to that man? 😂
What I will say is I don't particularly agree with your opinion on RELs
@@keepingupwiththejones2933 .
@@keepingupwiththejones2933 .
@@keepingupwiththejones2933 well, the wallpaper is nice😬
It's not the right sub for that room or those speakers. It was doimed to fail before you even started
I just must not have the ear you do. I just dont hear it. I have a T7x. Not sure if the smaller driver makes a difference in this example but it sounds great the me. Thinking of getting another to make a pair.
The light I do wish you could disable but its nothing a peice of electrical tape can’t fix.
Hi Peter - great to see you again!
The issue is the room itself (not the sub). The majority of the bass you hear in a small environment is coming from the room. What you're hearing is the bass echo coupled with the original sound coming from the driver. The result is a smeared sound no matter what subwoofer you have.
The T9x running from a stereo amplifier pure direct just doesn't sound right to me!
You're right - smaller subwoofers actually may be more suitable, but the bass response in the room will still be lumpy (especially with 1 sub).
That's why DSP is handy because you get some of that control back - you can also make adjustments to account for your small, untreated room.
Other than that, it's a good sub but at the price point (can't believe I'm going to say this) I think the Kef KC62 would be more suitable for the majority of people who just want to place the subwoofer and get an acceptable sound (at the price point of course). Overall, I would take the SVS 3000 micro in my room for music because I know with that subwoofer I have calibraton options.
Of course, we do have different rooms so I have no idea how the T7x sounds in your room! Just making a video to show you the results from mine :)
@@geezerintotech good to hear from you again as well. Appreciate the thorough response.
The KC62 was something I was really interested in but they are never in stock here in the states. Then I have a larger room so I was afraid it wouldn’t hold up with the little drivers.
Hope all is well and you’re staying safe over there
@@pmizz7959 I see. Yeah it's pretty hard to get hold of here too.
If you're looking for one sub in a larger room I'd probably go for REL as it's a bit larger.
Yepp all good over here mate! Being on RUclips means I barely leave the house (pretty sad but having fun at the minute hehe)
@@geezerintotech I feel you. I work in IT so I can work from home. My wife works from home and now my kids schools are getting outbreaks so I’m in the house 24:7 with all of them!!! Hence my need for loud music to drown out all of that 😂
@@pmizz7959 haha oh now I see! In that case..a pair of SVS PB16 Ultras will do you nicely!
I wonder if that peak in the higher range is why it’s supposedly so good for “ music “?
I think that's the room modes - I think they reckon it's good for music because of hearsay to be honest
You‘re wrong! You need better Speakers. T9x is to much for your tiny room man…🤷🏻♂️
you could cut out (trim down) that part with the DSP EQ section of your audio streaming software (Roon, JRiver Media Center)
yes
Heard the Rel subwoofer back in the day - wich is a nice sub, but i ended up purchase the Morel sub-10x.
Endgame subwoofer for me.
Hi, I would like to advise you on few things.
Put a pad or small square shaped carpet under the Rel subwoofer as you have hard flooring right below that passive radiator.
Then make sure you connected the cables to the exact terminals that Rel recommends on their web site and videos because according to the type of amp or receiver you have you the terminals you should connect to could be different.
And finally speak to Rel customer services they give great advice on these kind of issues.
Hello thanks for the advice!
I did set the subwoofer up via speakon connector exactly as per wiring diagrams in the book.
I know what you are saying, but if downward passive rads are meant to be placed on a pad, then REL should supply it in the box. I reckon over 90% of their customers are going to use the subwoofer without a pad and most people have hard flooring!
Also, that's not going to solve my room mode issues! People will have those sorts of problems in any room!
Thanks again
I never like down firering to me the bass sounded muddy. because the down fire driver is energizing the floor.
Speaker-level/high-level connections won't solve for phase issues caused by the speaker crossover, so you'll still need to be able to configure phase in a more sophisticated manner than the REL will allow you because it only gives you 0 and 180 of phase. I believe this is unacceptable for a product at this price-point. There are much better options that do more and cost less. I've posted a similar comment on other REL reviews of the Tx series but with REL you're paying for their marketing budget and brand name, not performance much less value.
i agree
All I see is you need a much smaller sub that is far too big for your room
Just received my pair of freshly built XXLS400 sealed 12-inchers from BK Electronics in a gorgeous veneer in the color of my choice. Shipping hurt me a little because I live off the beaten path (I'm nowhere near the UK), but overall I probably paid about similar money to this REL for two 12-inchers with impeccable fit and finish. I'm still setting up the room after a floor reno so I've literally not been able to fire them up yet but I'd be shocked if a single one of mine wouldn't beat this REL. Just going to print out four custom flexible TPU pads per sub on my 3D printer to anchor them against the hardwood a bit better and I'll be good to go. Bonus is that these don't look like "boy racer specials" like some SVS SB 2000 (non-pro) which I was considering first. No hideous metal grills here. I bought sealed on purpose - I want that tighter more musical presentation.
What is the Yamaha sub model ?
i think you mentioned this in another video
Even though I've done a complete home theatre overhaul, if there's one thing (or rather two things) that I wasn't gonna part with, was my rel t5i subwoofers. Absolutely love how they fill my entire room up with the low-end and that's almost all parts of the room! In fact I've made a video and i happen to have a little walkaround and you can pick up of what they sound like from all parts of the room...
ruclips.net/video/xvdqI5qZa6g/видео.html
You need the right tool for the job, not to blame something for being specialized.
The direct connexion is really the best for me.
I know the problem, i have that problem on 40hz, 15db higher than 50hz i have ht1205, but without minidsp it's really no hearing, i tuned with REW and minidsp, my room is 8.60 meters, and guess what, 40hz is also around that length, with minidsp it sounds very tight deep and in time 😁💪
You sre going to test subwoofers all your life long. Room + liquid garbage music = awful results
Why t9x? Why not t7x? I went down in size and had better sound and less spiking. Otherwise you need room treatment.
need more spl in 20-35hz region
You should move your couch closer to your TV and speakers
haha yeah - good joke 😂
Rel is analog subwoofer in the world of digital (dsp) subwoofers. As such has limitations as such it’s engineering needs better construction to get the sound they get where dsp subs can getaway with way worse construction. To me it’s more directed towards hifi users not Home theater people. AVRs are capable with room correction and don’t need high pass. HT predator 1510 is interesting though even though doesn’t extend low.
I’m stunned by the venom and rage in these comments
i'm not ... what are the first 3 letters of 'religion' pal?
coincidence? 🧐
Love when people expect the sub to fix all their room acoustic issues,lol.
yeah - that's exactly what parametric EQ is for - oh wait you don't get that option with a REL do you?
Treat your room properly first pretty simple.@@geezerintotech
@@geezerintotech And you didn't realise this before you got the REL, I have similar room nodes
in my small room similar to yours and I use a 5x, easier to control, I had a 7x first too much
turn it down and you start to lose the lower stuff. with the 9x there's far to much energy going
into that small space, try a 5x it actually plays tunes better in my room. I feel you ought to
rethink what you want from a sub.
This is a small sub with small woofers that doesn’t get loud or go low, but it’s tight? How is this impressive? I never saw the appeal of REL.
i've had tighter 👀
@@geezerintotech haha
I've had one. Very good sub. But....surely overpriced.
Fair enough!
I have two T9i subs in the red colour in my corridor - will be doing a comparison against the T9x and give my thoughts vs the SVS products etc.
@@geezerintotech SVS has very good specs for sure. But the BK similar model looks the best value for money.
@@rdh67dh yep - BK do a platinum 12 inch passive rad and I believe it's about £450-£550 depending on your choice of finish. You also get a plethora of wood finish options aswell.
I think the 12 inch passive rad is going to be the best all-round sub if you also want to cover movies in your listening space aswell
Time to change your room lay out.
I agree with you, REL Tx line is way overbranded... REL is written on the sub twenty (20) times... really! And it does in fact move/crawl/walk around the floor. I had T7x and the JL Audio E110. The JLA is simply better than the REL Tx for music and much better for HT. In my opinion,, REL TX line is overpriced and overated!
Didn’t BK electronics used to make Rel subbys
yeah i say this at the end of the video
@@geezerintotech sorry missed that
@@pureblood8307 no worries it's a 19min long video after all!
Not one of your better reviews
@@scottlewis815 this video is part of a series. This is not the complete review
I think you set set up properly before you try to make a video my friend, being a musician doesn’t qualify you to make this video, your way out mate
you've obviously missed the entire point of the video - what a plonker
Omg, can‘t tell any better! This man needs more exercise 😅😅😅
I Have Monitor Audio gold 200 and SVS SB16 Ultra , Parasound Halo 6 Integrated + chord qutest DAC for stereo. Sound is very good and sub is really fast . But in HT system SVS really show up . SVS sb16 ultra is 2,5k brand new but picked one years old on ebay for 1,4k . Rel is nowhere worth 1400£ in my opinion 500-600quid meybe only for music because in HT sub is very weak and not going LOW
I agree - I also have a sb16 ultra :)
the problem of bk is its look. The style is somehow old-fashion.😂
Room treatment from specialist, I think. Maybe better stands for the speaker?
It's a living room, so limited options for treatments. REL design these subwoofers for living rooms, not studios.
Room treatment won't really affect subwoofer performance because the sound produced is below 50hz. That's outside an acoustic panel's range.
I'm testing subwoofer performance - so, nothing to do with speakers and stands aren't going to make a difference to my subwoofer's performance
@@geezerintotech That is 100% absolute bullshit..... You sir have no
business reviewing anything in that echo chamber of a cave. OF COURSE room treatments can absorb below 50hz. You just have to have the right material, thickness, etc. And, that room is too small regardless to properly integrate a sub. Can be done, but you will never get down to the lower 20's I would bet. Not naturally, anyway.
@@TheMills567 it's a home subwoofer - not a studio subwoofer. Any interior space is going to have boundary interference and the echo you're hearing in the footage is mid/treble echo.
In the sub-bass range you would need frequency specific membrane-based acoustic treatment, which most people will never buy (especially for a living room).
In REL's videos, I see no mention of acoustic treatment needed - they don't intend these subs to be placed in a professional environment.
I think some might benefit by doing adequate research before writing degrading comments. If you could be a fraction more realistic that would also be suitable
SVS SB3000, all of sound profiling built in, sadly no high pass
Ur problem is that wooden floor...!..sit it on a rug and do another review
I was disappointed when I heard the rel t9x, for the price I'm sure you can do a lot better. If you shop around you can match the performance for half the price
😂 thank you, oh wise one
You can get Dual Rythmic L12 Subs which are roughly the same size and amplifier power. But also have 12 inch drivers AND go waaay lower in frequency... with a couple hundred dollars left over.
I think that the combination of RUclips and your mic isn't a great way to make your point with these kind of things, and then I'm not even talking about the equipment that people at home have to reproduce what you're hearing in real life.
I have for example 2 big Infinity studio monitors with 15 inch woofers and I built an active subwoofer using a Rockford Fosgate 12 inch woofer so I have a considerable amount more bass here in my room than you have in your room and I can't hear the difference when you play the single tone with increments of 5 Hz in the volume, here in my room the volume stays exactly the same.
There are too many variables, especially with this sort of subjects regarding sound there's just no way that anyone watching this video is hearing the same thing as you do in real life in your room with your audio setup, that's not even possible if someone has the same room with the same audio setup because you only have one mic, then your software does something to the audio, then RUclips does its thing, then you have all the variables of the setups that people are using to listen and watch your video.
Can you see the problem and the point I'm trying to make?
I understand where you are coming from...but I can't teleport people to my room so I don't have any other options. My microphone has a flat 20hz-20khz response so it's the best I can do.
Also, people take measurements of their room using a microphone, and then they calibrate using those measurements..so I don't completely understand your point but I respect what you're saying
@@geezerintotech The point I was trying to make is that there are too many variables that make it impossible for people to accurately reproduce the sound that you're hearing in real life.
I know that you're doing the best you can but we can never hear what you hear especially via RUclips because they encode the sound another time which messes everything up.
This makes it for you quite an impossible task to get people to understand what you're trying to explain.
I don't know how I can explain this any better to you, it's not that I want to insult you or anything it's just some advice to take into account when you make videos like this about how anything sounds in real life and how people watch your video.
@@RicardoPenders Hi Ricardo. If you use headphones and watch the video you can hear clearly what I'm saying and what point I am trying to make.
The only thing that I need people to hear was that there was a clear spike in the bass from 50-65hz: very audible over headphones.
You can tell different people's voices based on the timbre which is picked up by a microphone (even it's a cheap phone microphone you can tell the difference)..you know immediately when your favourite singer is singing even if it's over a cheap £15 radio speaker, so I personally don't agree with you on this, but I do respect your opinion very much :)
@@geezerintotech You're right about the latter but that's not what your video is about, and the part that I'm talking about is where you let people listen to the single tone only with the increments of 5 Hz and the subtle change in the volume that you hear I don't hear that on my sound setup when I play it back I hear the exact same sound level or volume during the whole sample, maybe because I have much, much more bass and with all the other variables it may level off or it's because the placement of my subwoofer which is much higher than you have, I have my subwoofer at ear height. Believe me it's surprising to me too that I can't hear the difference in volume because I normally hear things very accurately because it's ver accurately reproduced except this one thing that you point out in this video.
@@RicardoPenders it's recorded binaural so you should be using headphones really!
You really need DSP in that crappy little room. Wow you Brits like your near-field listening.
This is an entry level in rel
That right there was a violation
At last someone says it loud. A "subwoofer" that plays from 45Hz. Bollocks! It's an active woofer in fancy cabinet with internal amplifier. If it doesn't play loud at 20Hz it's not a SUBwoofer. So much "vooodoo" in audio industry and those REL overpriced products are perfect example.
Love ya
I bought my T9i new in 2016 for £899. Fucking couldn't believe they are wanting £1299 for a new T9X now. Jeez man. Happy with my T9i great video buddy
Move the REL.
it's just a subwoofer with a REL badge on it. It's not a 'REL'
in the corner
The REL moves by itself apparently; LOL!😂
Wtf is this?