Really impressive build order, just started playing sc2 this week and it got me to plat1, struggling with early game cheese, but once I weather the storm, basically it’s a guaranteed win
thanks for the tutorial! after playing with terran and zerg for weeks - started playing SC 2 around a month ago - I finally gave in to the temptation to play protoss and with this build I quickly reached 2500 MMR :D my max was like 2150 so far so this is really working and feels great Zerg is still problematic -- early ravager / roach rush which messes up my base because im focusing too much on air, doesn't have enough cannon or anything that could defend -- but i just needd practice
Some personal notes Notes Build pylon after 1st stargate unit to not be supply blocked. Lots of pylons for carriers (Will bank money after 2nd SG->FB) First 2 carriers can harass zerg When getting 4th base (3rd base saturated) at diamond+ Can go storm vs Terran/Zerg (vs corruptor, vikings, hydras) ~ Can go disruptors vs any race, cheaper than going storm ***Continuous probe production*** Standard opener (14 pylon- low ground, 16 gate, 17 gas, 20 nexus, 20 core, 21 gas, 22 pylon) Cannons and 3rd Nexus interchangeable Void ray first (chrono) adept->stalker (2 adepts vs zerg) Get stargate before warp gate (optional) Shield battery at natural Void ray (chrono) 3:25 gases at natural (he’s at 11 probes in nat at this point) 2nd stargate (2nd void before SG in PvP) Fleet Beacon 4:00 ***Natural base saturation at 4 mins Pylon Forge Use extra money on cannons at the front, mineral lines etc He built 1 cannon at nat ->2 carriers->1 cannon in main mineral line ***Remember to get enough pylons for first 2 carriers*** Carriers- chrono both Cannons (initially 1 in main mineral line, 1 at nat to prevent harass) Note- Stop probe production after 2 base saturation until Carriers start building 3rd Nexus (5:11) - 68/78 with 2 carriers in production 2 more carriers Battery and cannon at 3rd (battery in mineral line, cannon forward- perhaps for carrier micro up the cliff) +1 air attack 3rd Stargate (7:00) at 3rd base saturation - 108/125 (4 carriers, 2 more in production) 3rd base is saturated at this point Notes Take gas at 3rd base and later when base is saturated ***Chronos are all going to carriers Get up to 75-80 probes for 4 base saturation Probe builds 1 battery and 2 cannons at 3rd (can add more)
This is actually a PVZ build order that went wild in the Chinese ladder after the voidray meta. You can get +1 air attack and go for a double carrier pressure that focuses on killing queens. It is really hard for the zerg to deal with because the only viable counter for zerg is corruptors. And they must scout if the protoss is going skytoss or chargelot archon groundtoss after that. This build gets me(60 APM) to 68% PVZ win rate in NA 4000 MMR range(PVT is 30% because people start to do well splitting storm and disruptors and gateway units suck against stim bio with medivacs drops)
Yeah originally it was a PvZ and PvT build. I did the PvZ style after sOs vs Rogue in 2020 on purity and industry. I would open 4 carriers and then go double forge blink. In PvT I've had this style since... 2014? Pigbaby in WCS America played a similar style (and a version with double sg tempest). I took that and did 2 base all ins with 4 carriers. In lotv you can do a great carrier sentry adept all in off 2 base in PvT. Colour me surprised when I see classic and others recently doing the 2 carrier opening in PvZ...
Well your standard build order has gotten me to Platinum 2, probably not diamond yet because I am terrible at micro and countering early game aggression. Cant wait to try this build
Thanks for this, just started playing SC2 and my apm is low af so protoss it is 😅 Been struggling to get a solid build order and am very good at overdoing one element every game so this should help slow things down. Havent even tried playing vs other players yet since i get lost 😂
Hello! i have a question (you could say im new to the game) what do you mean by "14 pylon 16 gateway 17 gas and 20 nexus" ? thinking both timewise or in quantity none make sense to me :< also just my opinion but making a video where you speak about what exactly you're doing and why would be better than talking about other stuff because i think people cant follow your steps exactly while also paying attention to other stuff :D but maybe its just me so idk heheh
Yeah this month I intend to get out a noobie guide that will cover all these topics. In this case, it refers to your supply, that you can see in the top right. Build orders are generally written out in this supply format, and will leave off the probes.
I've been trying this and sometimes it works for me, sometimes it doesn't. When I lose it's usually because carriers get scouted early and I get mobbed by lings at the third base and forced to expand later than I want...Or they mass hydras or corruptors and just murder my carriers despite the batteries. I'd like to figure out this build with just pure carriers + batteries + cannons, but I usually have better luck by squeezing out storm + archons to go along with just a few carriers.
@@ProbeSC2 Thanks, I appreciate that. I've actually been having much better luck since I posted that comment lol. Maybe because I rewatched the video and started following the build better than I was before? Who knows.
Yeah that can happen. If you ever get stuck it can be a good idea to just compare your execution of the build order to the video again, because we miss details, or simplify things the first time we are learning the build because it's so much to take in. I do this too, and then I'll go back and rewatch a guide and realise I'm doing something completely wrong.
Will you be doing more advanced buildorder guides and stuff? I stopped playing for 2 years and have been getting back into protoss, but learning builds is kindof difficult for me as the 2 stargate voidray meta dying has made PvZ buildorders less easy to learn (this was a warranted change, I'll admit that I had a 100% PvZ winrate with it, good execution+scouting+good lategame control was just unbeatable. (Also to be fair I had a 75% ish overall winrate(so my 100%PvZ wasnt that much higher), because I had ladder anxiety and practiced out of ladder so much that I never really managed to reach an mmr my skill was equal to))
It's hard to do these advanced sort of build orders. One reason is they quickly go out of favour. If I was to do some more build order guides, which I will, I will probably start with intermediate, then advanced, and do it after the next patch releases.
Well I would share the replay (discord is best) so I can properly help, but generally this will be the toughest thing for you to handle. You need to fight at cannons and shield batteries and use battery overcharge. There isn't enough specifics in this comment for me to be certain, because it could just be your macro.
How does the build order change if you decide to get Stargate before Warp Gate? When my Cyber finishes at about 2:12, I have about 110 gas. Does the stargate go down the moment the Cyber finishes, or is there a delay? Should I take a probe of minerals and put on gas at any point? Cheers! (I'm scouting after first gate if that makes a difference.)
The gateway scout shouldn't change it in this case. There will be a slight delay before you can put the Stargate down. You still get the adept first, then Stargate, then 2nd unit, then warp gate. The only way this changes with Stargate first is if you go gas first, but I'm not getting y'all to do that.
Put the 2 Stargates in a control group. Control or shift + a number for 1 Stargate, then shift + Stargate #2 to add the second Stargate to the control group. For ex- I put my warp gates on control group 4, then add Stargates to it so, 1. I select my first gateway and press control +4. Control group 4 now has my gateway. 2. I select my first Stargate and press shift +4. Now control group 4 has a gateway and 1 Stargate (I press 4 to get to this control group) 3. For the next Stargate, I select the Stargate and press shift +4 to add it to control group 4. - now control group 4 has 1 gateway and 2 Stargates. To build carriers, I press 4 to select control group 4, then press tab to get to my Stargates, then I press C to build carriers
What are the hot keys I can't tell what 2 might be and did i get others right: 1-All fighting units 2-? 4-all nexus 5-All gateways (ground units) 6-all star gates (air units) 10-carriers
I use a very custom hotkey set up, so the numbers don't correspond to what I press to access it. But for production I put gateways together, and Stargates and robos together.
hey sorry to bother I'm only part way in the video but where can i find the complete build order? like when should i build the adept etc. Im a super noob fyi
I dont really suggest building nothing but carriers in mid game in PvZ. Zerg could just make lots of corruptors and just pass his corruptors by on your skytoss and run his corruptors as if nothing happened..
Ive been playing for a week maby slightly longer. I did play broodwars for years but only customs (mainly sunken defence). The point of my comment is im stuck on very hard ai. I figured if i cant rank up t max difficulty ai i dont need to be playing against real players even if they would be bronze. Should i stop playing random? I was watching a tournement and they said nobody does great even gm players when focusing on all 3 races. I figured playing all 3 will get me alot more knowledge and once i finish the hardest ai consistently i would pick a race(probably zerg). Is this a mistake or is it fine as long as i eventually pick 1 race?
I have 0 issue against harder difficulty with any race. But very hard I lose 2 out of 3 matches with any race exept Terran. I never liked terran even if they are probably the best race with a perfect balance of speed power and utility.
The downside to playing random is that you don't have to learn 3 matchups, but instead 9. And because you won't get the same race multiple games in a row you won't be able to build the mechanics for any of them. So if you do want to beat the AI with all races, which is a totally fine goal, then do that one race at a time. Maybe that will take you 5 games as Protoss, then you swap and it takes you 5 games as Zerg. Then at the end of it I would pick the race you are having the most fun with. You are much more likely to want to improve if you are playing a race you actually want to play.
Well a 20 core will be 10 seconds later than the nexus. 1:24 Nexus 1:33 Cybernetics Core If your timings are close to this (give yourself 3-4 seconds) then that's all good. If not, it's probably issues with not getting everything previous down fast enough (think about rallying the workers), not chronoboosting after the first pylon completes, or missing probes.
@@ProbeSC2 thank you for your reply. I am 51 years old and my son is 16. I am secretly trying to become master and show off to my son. I also enjoy the game. I am diamond zerg but I couldn’t get to master with zerg after trying for 6 months . I’ll try Skytoss now. Thank you for your guide
Stargate before warpgate is definitely better. You could even not get warpgate and get +1 instead. But just keeping it simple, and making sure we have a warpin if a push comes across the map (useful for PvT).
It's probably because I'm just starting out, but following this build order don't you have big problems against those who make initial pushes? The other day against a zerg he destroyed me after 3-4 minutes because he launched those air-to-ground insects (I don't know their name, I've never used zerg and they aren't present in the campaign)
That description does sound like you are just new. You might struggle against some really early stuff, but in general I've kept you pretty safe with this opener. Look at your replays, see if you are matching the timings I do in the video, and go from there.
@@ProbeSC2 yeah I'm just now getting into multiplayer and since I wrote the comment I've improved a bit and started winning against Terran and Protoss, but I still can't handle the Zerg. Little by little I will improve
no youre right, all he has to defend with is 1 void ray, 1 stalker, 1 adept. This will lose to any early game push except maybe zealot all in@@Trattato68
Going to have to be a bit more specific. If you want to share the replay you can put it in my discord channel. Loosely though, check your macro and compare to mine, and build more cannons and shield batteries.
You need to have knowledge of starcraft by watching matches. The guide cannot explain everything like what is a probe. What is a pylon. For that you need to watch introduction to sc2 video
Happy for you to try it out. At 4 minutes they don't have stim. You have an adept a stalker a void ray a battery and another warp in. Good luck out there!
Really impressive build order, just started playing sc2 this week and it got me to plat1, struggling with early game cheese, but once I weather the storm, basically it’s a guaranteed win
thanks for the tutorial!
after playing with terran and zerg for weeks - started playing SC 2 around a month ago - I finally gave in to the temptation to play protoss and with this build I quickly reached 2500 MMR :D
my max was like 2150 so far so this is really working and feels great
Zerg is still problematic -- early ravager / roach rush which messes up my base because im focusing too much on air, doesn't have enough cannon or anything that could defend -- but i just needd practice
Welcome to the best faction :D
@@ProbeSC2 Easiest* :p
Some personal notes
Notes
Build pylon after 1st stargate unit to not be supply blocked.
Lots of pylons for carriers (Will bank money after 2nd SG->FB)
First 2 carriers can harass zerg
When getting 4th base (3rd base saturated) at diamond+
Can go storm vs Terran/Zerg (vs corruptor, vikings, hydras) ~
Can go disruptors vs any race, cheaper than going storm
***Continuous probe production***
Standard opener (14 pylon- low ground, 16 gate, 17 gas, 20 nexus, 20 core, 21 gas, 22 pylon)
Cannons and 3rd Nexus interchangeable
Void ray first (chrono)
adept->stalker (2 adepts vs zerg)
Get stargate before warp gate (optional)
Shield battery at natural
Void ray (chrono)
3:25 gases at natural (he’s at 11 probes in nat at this point)
2nd stargate (2nd void before SG in PvP)
Fleet Beacon 4:00
***Natural base saturation at 4 mins
Pylon
Forge
Use extra money on cannons at the front, mineral lines etc
He built 1 cannon at nat ->2 carriers->1 cannon in main mineral line
***Remember to get enough pylons for first 2 carriers***
Carriers- chrono both
Cannons (initially 1 in main mineral line, 1 at nat to prevent harass)
Note- Stop probe production after 2 base saturation until Carriers start building
3rd Nexus (5:11) - 68/78 with 2 carriers in production
2 more carriers
Battery and cannon at 3rd (battery in mineral line, cannon forward- perhaps for carrier micro up the cliff)
+1 air attack
3rd Stargate (7:00) at 3rd base saturation - 108/125 (4 carriers, 2 more in production)
3rd base is saturated at this point
Notes
Take gas at 3rd base and later when base is saturated
***Chronos are all going to carriers
Get up to 75-80 probes for 4 base saturation
Probe builds 1 battery and 2 cannons at 3rd (can add more)
Thx!
This build order helped me win my first StarCraft 1v1 game. Thanks
This is actually a PVZ build order that went wild in the Chinese ladder after the voidray meta. You can get +1 air attack and go for a double carrier pressure that focuses on killing queens. It is really hard for the zerg to deal with because the only viable counter for zerg is corruptors. And they must scout if the protoss is going skytoss or chargelot archon groundtoss after that. This build gets me(60 APM) to 68% PVZ win rate in NA 4000 MMR range(PVT is 30% because people start to do well splitting storm and disruptors and gateway units suck against stim bio with medivacs drops)
Yeah originally it was a PvZ and PvT build. I did the PvZ style after sOs vs Rogue in 2020 on purity and industry. I would open 4 carriers and then go double forge blink.
In PvT I've had this style since... 2014? Pigbaby in WCS America played a similar style (and a version with double sg tempest). I took that and did 2 base all ins with 4 carriers. In lotv you can do a great carrier sentry adept all in off 2 base in PvT.
Colour me surprised when I see classic and others recently doing the 2 carrier opening in PvZ...
Protoss build order -> legacy of the void@@ProbeSC2
Great guide, Probe!
Next thing to learn is how to counter skytoss with Protoss
The answer to most things is macro better :D
But yeah hard to do a video on that since it's quite nuanced.
Well your standard build order has gotten me to Platinum 2, probably not diamond yet because I am terrible at micro and countering early game aggression. Cant wait to try this build
Let's gooooo PROBE!
and another clear precise guide. nicely done.
I will try it out 👍👍
Nice, thanks :)
It’s a tough build order to play against as a Protoss. Even tempests seem to struggle against it
Nice Guide! Thanks!
-Your New Sub
Thanks for this, just started playing SC2 and my apm is low af so protoss it is 😅 Been struggling to get a solid build order and am very good at overdoing one element every game so this should help slow things down. Havent even tried playing vs other players yet since i get lost 😂
Good luck with it. Hopefully this can act as a springboard into the wider game :)
I have played this game off and on and now I'm an addict sort of. I win so very hard levels off and on. But this might prove effective
Hello! i have a question (you could say im new to the game) what do you mean by "14 pylon 16 gateway 17 gas and 20 nexus" ? thinking both timewise or in quantity none make sense to me :< also just my opinion but making a video where you speak about what exactly you're doing and why would be better than talking about other stuff because i think people cant follow your steps exactly while also paying attention to other stuff :D but maybe its just me so idk heheh
Yeah this month I intend to get out a noobie guide that will cover all these topics.
In this case, it refers to your supply, that you can see in the top right. Build orders are generally written out in this supply format, and will leave off the probes.
I've been trying this and sometimes it works for me, sometimes it doesn't. When I lose it's usually because carriers get scouted early and I get mobbed by lings at the third base and forced to expand later than I want...Or they mass hydras or corruptors and just murder my carriers despite the batteries. I'd like to figure out this build with just pure carriers + batteries + cannons, but I usually have better luck by squeezing out storm + archons to go along with just a few carriers.
If you want to share a replay in my discord I'm more than happy to have a look and help. Sounds fixable.
@@ProbeSC2 Thanks, I appreciate that. I've actually been having much better luck since I posted that comment lol. Maybe because I rewatched the video and started following the build better than I was before? Who knows.
Yeah that can happen. If you ever get stuck it can be a good idea to just compare your execution of the build order to the video again, because we miss details, or simplify things the first time we are learning the build because it's so much to take in. I do this too, and then I'll go back and rewatch a guide and realise I'm doing something completely wrong.
Will you be doing more advanced buildorder guides and stuff? I stopped playing for 2 years and have been getting back into protoss, but learning builds is kindof difficult for me as the 2 stargate voidray meta dying has made PvZ buildorders less easy to learn (this was a warranted change, I'll admit that I had a 100% PvZ winrate with it, good execution+scouting+good lategame control was just unbeatable. (Also to be fair I had a 75% ish overall winrate(so my 100%PvZ wasnt that much higher), because I had ladder anxiety and practiced out of ladder so much that I never really managed to reach an mmr my skill was equal to))
It's hard to do these advanced sort of build orders. One reason is they quickly go out of favour. If I was to do some more build order guides, which I will, I will probably start with intermediate, then advanced, and do it after the next patch releases.
What if you get attacked? At 4.5 mins, I can get 4 cyclones and two tanks up.
If I wanna add Storm at some point, when is a good time? On four base?
You can definitely add it as your 4th base is getting saturated on minerals.
Probe OMG stop teaching people how to build Skytoss!! xD
I know you work for Aiur but have some mercy.
Come on man.
I do apologise to everyone on the ladder.
Any tips on how to deal with proxy cheese with this build?
What does that build order mean:
14 pylon, 16 gateway, 17 gas etc.?
at 14 supplies you build pylon, at 16 gateway at 17 gas :)
Is there any way to track build orders into the game directly? I mean 3rd party app like - spawning tool build advisor.
Does it still work in game?
skytoss just wrecks the ai every time
When I go void ray that early, for some reason my pickle gets hard. Maybe it because of the shape of the void ray? Please help.
Is there any merit in getting +1 shields to help your static D?
Yes it would be the upgrade to get, but more to help your carriers.
No need to rush it out though, can start on them once on 4 bases.
How to counter Zerg that scouted the fleet beacon early and attacked you with lots of corruptors when you only have 3 or 4 carriers ? MMR is diamond.
Well I would share the replay (discord is best) so I can properly help, but generally this will be the toughest thing for you to handle. You need to fight at cannons and shield batteries and use battery overcharge.
There isn't enough specifics in this comment for me to be certain, because it could just be your macro.
Go mass Archons they’re ridiculously strong to Zerg air units
Are there situations when you need to get an observer for this build?
It's not that important, since I'm getting you to build cannons.
How does the build order change if you decide to get Stargate before Warp Gate? When my Cyber finishes at about 2:12, I have about 110 gas. Does the stargate go down the moment the Cyber finishes, or is there a delay? Should I take a probe of minerals and put on gas at any point? Cheers!
(I'm scouting after first gate if that makes a difference.)
The gateway scout shouldn't change it in this case. There will be a slight delay before you can put the Stargate down. You still get the adept first, then Stargate, then 2nd unit, then warp gate.
The only way this changes with Stargate first is if you go gas first, but I'm not getting y'all to do that.
made mynight
how do you click the two sg when they on the opposite end of the
Put the 2 Stargates in a control group. Control or shift + a number for 1 Stargate, then shift + Stargate #2 to add the second Stargate to the control group.
For ex- I put my warp gates on control group 4, then add Stargates to it so,
1. I select my first gateway and press control +4. Control group 4 now has my gateway.
2. I select my first Stargate and press shift +4. Now control group 4 has a gateway and 1 Stargate (I press 4 to get to this control group)
3. For the next Stargate, I select the Stargate and press shift +4 to add it to control group 4.
- now control group 4 has 1 gateway and 2 Stargates.
To build carriers, I press 4 to select control group 4, then press tab to get to my Stargates, then I press C to build carriers
What are the hot keys I can't tell what 2 might be and did i get others right:
1-All fighting units
2-?
4-all nexus
5-All gateways (ground units)
6-all star gates (air units)
10-carriers
I use a very custom hotkey set up, so the numbers don't correspond to what I press to access it.
But for production I put gateways together, and Stargates and robos together.
Any advice on how to hit the times you have? I practiced several times today, but can't keep up yet. @@ProbeSC2
Nevermind! Sorry found your other video: ruclips.net/video/gfHLDJ15D3s/видео.html
@@ProbeSC2
do you have any teaching ?
hey sorry to bother I'm only part way in the video but where can i find the complete build order? like when should i build the adept etc. Im a super noob fyi
lotv.spawningtool.com/build/179316
@@ProbeSC2 ahh i see it now tysm
I dont really suggest building nothing but carriers in mid game in PvZ. Zerg could just make lots of corruptors and just pass his corruptors by on your skytoss and run his corruptors as if nothing happened..
Ive been playing for a week maby slightly longer. I did play broodwars for years but only customs (mainly sunken defence). The point of my comment is im stuck on very hard ai. I figured if i cant rank up t max difficulty ai i dont need to be playing against real players even if they would be bronze. Should i stop playing random? I was watching a tournement and they said nobody does great even gm players when focusing on all 3 races. I figured playing all 3 will get me alot more knowledge and once i finish the hardest ai consistently i would pick a race(probably zerg). Is this a mistake or is it fine as long as i eventually pick 1 race?
I have 0 issue against harder difficulty with any race. But very hard I lose 2 out of 3 matches with any race exept Terran. I never liked terran even if they are probably the best race with a perfect balance of speed power and utility.
The downside to playing random is that you don't have to learn 3 matchups, but instead 9. And because you won't get the same race multiple games in a row you won't be able to build the mechanics for any of them.
So if you do want to beat the AI with all races, which is a totally fine goal, then do that one race at a time. Maybe that will take you 5 games as Protoss, then you swap and it takes you 5 games as Zerg.
Then at the end of it I would pick the race you are having the most fun with. You are much more likely to want to improve if you are playing a race you actually want to play.
What does "core" mean??
Cybernetics Core.
i am trying to follow, nexus at 20 or 21 and always my core is late by about 10s after nexus saving for minerals.any tips?
Well a 20 core will be 10 seconds later than the nexus.
1:24 Nexus
1:33 Cybernetics Core
If your timings are close to this (give yourself 3-4 seconds) then that's all good.
If not, it's probably issues with not getting everything previous down fast enough (think about rallying the workers), not chronoboosting after the first pylon completes, or missing probes.
@@ProbeSC2 thank you for your reply. I am 51 years old and my son is 16. I am secretly trying to become master and show off to my son. I also enjoy the game. I am diamond zerg but I couldn’t get to master with zerg after trying for 6 months . I’ll try Skytoss now. Thank you for your guide
Probe, why you build warpgate before stargate? U dont build so many gateways
Stargate before warpgate is definitely better. You could even not get warpgate and get +1 instead.
But just keeping it simple, and making sure we have a warpin if a push comes across the map (useful for PvT).
It's probably because I'm just starting out, but following this build order don't you have big problems against those who make initial pushes? The other day against a zerg he destroyed me after 3-4 minutes because he launched those air-to-ground insects (I don't know their name, I've never used zerg and they aren't present in the campaign)
That description does sound like you are just new. You might struggle against some really early stuff, but in general I've kept you pretty safe with this opener.
Look at your replays, see if you are matching the timings I do in the video, and go from there.
@@ProbeSC2 yeah I'm just now getting into multiplayer and since I wrote the comment I've improved a bit and started winning against Terran and Protoss, but I still can't handle the Zerg. Little by little I will improve
no youre right, all he has to defend with is 1 void ray, 1 stalker, 1 adept. This will lose to any early game push except maybe zealot all in@@Trattato68
What does that build order on screen mean?? surely you're not gonna build 20 nexii? like what
Nexus on 20 supply. You can find your supply at the top right. Assume constant probe production.
When I play this against Zerg they just mass hydralisk and destroy me! 😮
Going to have to be a bit more specific. If you want to share the replay you can put it in my discord channel.
Loosely though, check your macro and compare to mine, and build more cannons and shield batteries.
Thanks for the new guide! I see its a cheater AI this time. Down with the AIs!
I was hoping he'd show up cheating, with a better composition, alas...
does this still work?
Should still be as effective as when it was posted.
probe play me
Dude, how is this a beginner guide when it's absolutely full of terms i don't understand???
Well it’s a beginner guide, not a “welcome to StarCraft” guide. The term “beginner” can mean many things
He clearly said at the start he’s assuming you watched the previous video that’s issue #1 your not listening.
You need to have knowledge of starcraft by watching matches. The guide cannot explain everything like what is a probe. What is a pylon. For that you need to watch introduction to sc2 video
Just snort a line bruh
10 min and 0 attacks lol... at real game you will die at 4 min from marines push
Happy for you to try it out. At 4 minutes they don't have stim. You have an adept a stalker a void ray a battery and another warp in.
Good luck out there!