Austro-Hungarian SABRE Manuals You Should Know About | Pt. 1
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- In this multi-part series I go through primarily German language Austrian and later Austro-Hungarian manuals for cut fencing on foot from the late 18th century through to the early 20th century.
My list is not exhaustive and no manuals have been left out deliberately.
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Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
1:29 Carl Timlich (1796)
3:01 M. de Saint Martin (1804)
4:38 Carl Thallhofer & Michael Isnardi (1838)
5:44 Josef Ott (1853)
7:14 August Hermann (1859)
8:59 Conclusion & Outlook
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Citations and links to the manuals:
TIMLICH, C. (1796). Gründliche Abhandlung der Fechtkunst auf den Hieb zu Fuss und zu Pferde zum Gebrauch der Cavallerie mit Kupfern. Vienna.
Link : www.digital.wienbibliothek.at...
Translation by Russ Mitchell (sabre on foot): www.amazon.com/Hungarian-Huss...
DE SAINT MARTIN, M. J. (1804). L'Art De Faire Des Armes Réduit A Ses Vrais Principes [...]. Vienna.
Link: books.google.com/books?id=Z9z...
THALLHOFER, C. & ISNARDI, M. (1838). Theoretisch-practische Anleitung zur Fechtkunst á la contrepointe. Nebst eine Anleitung zur Vertheidigung mit den Säbel oder Degen den Bajonnetisten. Vienna.
Text volume: onb.digital/result/10A25A55
Plates volume: onb.digital/result/10A25A4C
OTT, J. (1853). Das System der Fechtkunst a la contrepointe für den Stoß und Hieb: Das Hiebfechten. Olomouc: Slawik.
Link: onb.digital/result/106BFB0D
HERMANN, A. (1859). Grundzüge einer Anleitung zum Säbel-Fechten: nebst Fechtaufgaben und deren Lösung. Verlag von Hermann Geibel.
Link: data.onb.ac.at/rep/10720A70
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![Akademia Szermierzy - TOP 3 Polish Saber Exercises [ENG SUB]](/img/1.gif)
So, you have to delve into these sources more. You ahve not presented any real aspects of these.
Timmlich is an important example of fencing centered around cavalry use of the sabre, although his main features are using the cross cutting training (on the end - the one with training regime) and the very old cut nomenclature (Agrippa baby!). The diagram you presented is a reversed (a guard position oriented cross).
De Saint Martin is a student of Danet (THE Danet) he is has a very partiicular Espadon method which encompasses his author approach towards the tactical body heavily connected to smallsword - although it is not the contre -pointe, it is just an Espadon wth particularities.
Thalhoffer is a very interesting one - he is a Wiener Neustadt teacher, so a central training grounds for fencing teacher in Austrian Empire. The hoch-tierce and popularity of Barbasesetti system all started there.
This is the more traditional contre-pointe - it is particular since there are little acutal contre pointe treatises, which are as Grisier notes in his book in 40s (les armes at les duel) that they focus on facing a smallsword user. This is important since most fencing treatises on contre pointe are acualle meant to face another sabre user.
Ott and Hermann are typical examples of later German cut fencing, they are in fact not even very interesting in terms of research, although they present a major fashion that took on at this time - the Gedechtes fechten.
Oh, I will look at them more going forward but I also never said this was an in-depth video analysing them. I am still learning about them myself.
In fact, it was always meant as an overview for an audience outside of Central Europe who might have never heard of them. I even provided the links to the manuals so people could have a look themselves.
I appreciate the info in your comment, so I'm gonna pin it
Cheers!
As a Hungarian, whose ancestors apparently did a lot of fencing and Ottoman demilitarizing back in the day, I like this video very much. Looking forward to seeing the upcoming episodes. Instant subscription added. 😁
That moustache though... the XIX. century vibe is strong. 😃
Köszi! My own great-granddad was in the hussars (I believe in Nyíregyháza) and had a similar moustache. Welcome to the channel and a happy 2023!
@@historyandsabre Bitte schön! 😉
And happy 2023 to you too!
Speaking of hussars, my great-granddad's father was an officer among them in the early 1900's. In Miskolc, which is not that far from Nyíregyháza. (I mean everything is far from Nyíregyháza, it's in the middle of nowhere. Me and my classmates got hit by a blizzard there when I was 8. I never visited that place again for some reason. 😅)
@@viktorberecz27 Good story, haha. I was planning on going to Nyíregyháza at some point, so I'll be sure to do that during the summer! 😆
Ad 2. Martin (1804):
The first section is on foil, not epée. The other techniques can be adapted for both cavalry and infantry fencing.
Thank you for the input, François!
how on earth is foil different than smallsword? MOF makes it different, but historically it is absurd to compare...
@@jurekmiklaszewski7027 Nothing to argue about here. One is the practice weapon, one is the sharp. The viewer pointed out to me that the pictures show foils which I hadn't seen earlier.
Thanks for sharing these sources. I was wondering what kind of influence the Polish sabre had on these systems
That's some good austrian manuals, trust me, i know a good austrian manual if I see one.
Nobody wants to talk about the complaint tablets huh
Danke fürs verlinken der Manuskripte!
Sehr gerne! ✌️
I would love to have these manuals.
Same, though we can have them as PDFs at least!
Hi Peter, interesting stuff, I hope I get a chance to learn some of this stuff in a workshop.
Thanks Carlo, appreciate your kind words! There's quite a way to go for me before I can teach some of thalis stuff as I'd have to practice it properly myself beforehand! :)
Maybe one day!
Awesome video!
Thank you!
Awesome video thanks!
Thanks, glad you liked it!
That's really awesome! It's really hard to get any information on fencing manuals that are not in English, so Hungarian systems are always a mystery to me. I can't wait for your translations!
Thanks! Unfortunately, I don't speak Hungarian even though my family cane from Hungary originally. Fortunately enough, many manuals are in German, which is my first language.
@@historyandsabre That would be awesome! I wanted to try OCR the text and translate them online, but the text is in black letter and I'm not sure how well it would work
@@historyandsabre By the way, do we know any Hungarian manuals for those sabres only with a crossguard? Were those earlier time periods?
@@BS-bd5uq Yep, totally. OCR doesn't work at all with Fraktur, so I sometimes use speech to text. Works really well!
Is there simple way to find more quality sabre manuals like these?
Check out Google Books and the digitized collections of national or regional national libraries from the countries you are interested in!
How do you find the upwards strike? I have always wondered why it is not included
What do you mean exactly?
Isn't Saint Martin French Military? Becuase he states that his method for saber on foot is used in boarding actions, and I think Austria didn't have a Navy if I'm not mistaken.
Saint Martin himself was French but he taught at the Austrian military academy in Wiener Neustadt for the Austrians. And Austria did have a Navy from the 18th century into WWI.
@@historyandsabre Oh I see. Thanks for the info!
De Martin shall be damned! Shame on him giving his knowledge to those austrians!
Austrians today can't read French anyway, so the joke's on us! 😂