personally, i dont think any of the modern boilers match up to the reliability of the old boilers from 30 years old and older, its important to mention that if you have an old boiler, you have a peace of mind that they were bullet proof. engineers call them bullet proof because they hardly ever broke down, be it an old glowworm, potterton, vaillant, vulcan, ideal, worcester, or any other. there are still people who dont realise that the have a boiler in the chimney, because they hardly broke down and over time, in 15 , 20 years, the person forgot they had a boiler in the chimney. i know someone will point out the service issue, but im just making a point. i did a flue sample on a 30 year old boiler and the co /co2 was 0.0008 i think, and on the same day, another 2 year old boiler, and it was 0.001, so the efficiency on the old was better. just like some old and new cars. people make savings on gas bills, bit sometimes the repair on a new boiler is huge, even a new boiler in some cases, i had this twice on a viessmann. and getting the right parts onviessman is hard if the serial number happens to have been rubbed out or something.dirt in systems didnt much affect in causing boiler breakdowns before the turbomax ranges, same goes with expansion vessels and diverter, its the quality of parts thats gone down, o rings lasted 20 years without going hard, now its very less, same with fibre washers, before they were leather, now its like some paper composite.boilers were bulet proof. no manufacturer can claim theirs as bullet proof. they all keep their own old boilers in their training centers because the old boilers were meant to last a lifetime. didnt need a warranty of 5 , 10, or 15 years, neither did they need proof that the boiler was serviced (is it about 2 minute with no tools). i thought i would put this comment in because i repair many boilers, and ive repaired 30 year old boilers where engineers said that this cant be repaired, and it cost the customer maybe £70 instead or £3000 (plus problems for warranty due to sludge/debris). old is gold, if it can be fixed, try to fix, try too save the customer money, taking into account the yearly gas bills and what the can actually save.new biler life 5 years? maybe less ?im not being argumentative, but i thought i would show a different genuine view point.
You are correct those old boilers had a gas valve and stat so they never broke down. As rich as you are your gas bill would be over double it is today and not very green.
Dear zubs ,I’m afraid I think you are totally wrong in your ideas about boilers yes the old ones were a bit more reliable a bit like 1980s cars and mobile phones they were built to last for decades but this is not what people want they are more Conscience of the environmental impact of running an old cast-iron boiler which is only 60% efficient that’s literally throwing 40% of energy through the flue pipe! secondly, how did you have trouble getting parts for a viessmann boiler? Serial number rubbed off? There is a serial number on top of the boiler ,another one on the base panel of the boiler and also another one inside the boiler also there is the part number visible on most of the parts ! nine years ago I removed a Potterton netaheat cast-iron boiler and replaced with a viessmann vitodens 100 Combination boiler, during the last nine years it has been reliable and has paid for itself on the gas savings alone, 9 years x £300 per year = £2700 savings ! how did you find that the new combination boilers only last five years or less? This is the first time I have heard of this if you fit a quality combination boiler (preferably German-made) it will last you 15 years and if you change your boiler after 15 years you will not be complaining as it will have served you well . It is all down to the installation quality . I only fit viessmann now since last 10 years, top quality
@@SalimKhan-gk1fh Hi Salim, I have installed many Viessmann's brilliant boiler and after sales, never had one problem, we have one here for Training, the point is efficances. In the 1970 80's loads of back boilers big cast iron high poluting units, thanks to very cleaver engineers in R&D we now have 90%+. Offically all boiers are ment for 12 years, some will last much longer if installed / maintained correctly. Too many are not thus last 5 years don't blame ihe manufacture blame the installer. Why do we still see photos in Gas Installer mag. My 2 installers are told NEVER work on any boiler over 15 and if the repair in over £500 then fit a Ravenheat 98HE. Thanks for your reply, regards george staszak
Dear Zubs, When I started in 1970 we all just installed because we were not trainined to repair untill Vaillant started, thank God. 5 years later they broke down thus a new bread (me) evolved breakdown engineers. for the next 30 years I spend fixing installs and faults. Today 2020 we get the same: Nr1 fault is undersized gas pipe, sludge, no by-pass, controls etc. etc. why is the standard so low? Take care george staszak Mr Combi Training
@@mrcombiBedford Hi George thank you for your reply the reason I gave big reply was because zubs he’s giving the wrong information to people! okay I agree 1970s & 80’s cast-iron boiler was the most reliable,But they are not efficient at all, Most of the fuel is wasted and over 40% is going out to the flu to atmosphere as pollution okay so 1980s Mercedes was the best very solid and built like a tank, but these days people will not accept 20 mpg efficiency from their car! I gave you example of the viessmann vitodens boiler I fitted , fitting cost was about £2000 butBecause it is efficient it has saved £300 per year on gas consumption, Very reliable last nine years if it last another 5-6 years this is okay for customer. Are you based in the UK ?because in the UK the installers are not doing very good job of the installation.
Quite right about old boilers. I have a 25 year old Camray Oil boiler and still going strong. What is the progress having to renew them every 10 years. What is the point of high efficiency when they only last 10 years?
@@edc1569 Yes I suppose so with 30% extra efficiency they would pay for themselves in 10 years . Since I posted that comment I sold my house with the old boiler and got a house with one of the new ones in it and what really makes the difference is in new radiators.
@@CommercialGasEngineerVideos The money that is saved in fuel over a period of the life of the boiler is cancelled out by the cost of its replacement. I think I would rather have an inefficient boiler that could go on for 30 years than one that has to be replaced every 8 or so years.
@@rodneycooperLMSCoach all seems like a scam to me. Think I'd rather have a machine that's less efficient but lasts 30 years than the headache and cost of replacing a boiler every 10 years. So many environmental friendly schemes seem like they are there to line pockets rather than save the environment or the customers outgoings.
Have had a Potterton system boiler for 13 years and only one warranty issue. Getting kitchen done and replacing with Baxi 800 - backed with a 10-year-warranty. Spoke to three different gas engineers who all rate the Baxi for ease of fitting and reliability.
Being one who records whilst they work and edits in the twilight hours. I know the difficulties and how much effort goes into making these videos. Material like this is undervalued. Education has changed so much with RUclips. Society are gaining the equivalent of a RUclips plumbing degree. It's good when it's used for something positive like making individuals better engineers. Onsite experience is vital as well as real qualifications. Yet this media stream and experience passed on is helping nations strive to better engineering standards. It would have been a game changer if I had some of these videos when I initially qualified as a plumber 13 years ago. There was hardly anything like this to watch. It's great that the information is there for those that are thirsty to grow in their knowledge of the trade.
I agree with you Zubs as that has been my experience over the last 20 years after replacing ye olde faithful cast iron boiler. Maybe it’s just down to bad luck but since then I’ve had three different boilers , Vaillant failed after 5 years despite expensive attempts to repair , Potterton lasted 8 years again with expensive repairs & touch wood Baxi is still going but again with repairs Baxi . Most of the repairs always seemed to involve what I would call the electrical components of the boiler & the cost of replacing two ‘mother boards’ ( is that the right term ?) was eye watering. In my case even if as someone stated the cost of gas would be double it still wouldn’t have been more than installation, servicing & repair costs. As for the environmental side of it - well two boilers that have gone to the tip in the meantime isn’t very green.
This is why I am tempted to keep my 40 year old Ideal boiler. Minimal costs, a new gas valve and a couple of thermocouples. With corrosion inhibitor and smart valves only use about £700 of gas a year for a 2 bedroom semi-detached bungalow. Can't see a new boiler with yearly maintenance etc really being cheaper over 10years.
The advent of condensing boilers is probably the most significant leap in domestic boiler efficiency - ever. It is also the biggest job creation exercise keeping ‘gas engineers’ busy installing them and repairing them. However to gain fuel burn efficiency and keep the house comfortable, there needs to be less focus on which is the ‘best boiler’ and much more focus on the house, in terms of the heat losses, selecting a boiler of the right size and the sophistication of the control system to garner back efficiency. In addition, there needs to be some analysis of required system flow rates and what amendments are needed to the current pipework to enable that. Also, effective power flushing takes time - it is not a 30 minute exercise. I am not at all sure if all ‘gas engineers’ are equal to the task, many are not able to do the above (or cannot be bothered) and just offer a ‘white box solution’ - hang it on the wall in a morning - job done. But it may not be the right boiler and any paper efficiencies may never be realised.
I just replaced the same boiler, Ideal Mexico in my house with a modern Combi. It must have been at least 40 years old. Essentially there was nothing wrong with it apart from its total inefficiency and I personally battled with replacing something that wasn't broken. I'm glad I did. My gas bill has now reduced remarkably by 70% and thus my carbon footprint. Which is a good thing. It is also extremely efficient and warms my house so quickly compared to the old boiler. The old boiler was bombproof and good for the time but hardly 'Ideal' for the modern world. Excuse the pun. Food for thought.
I have the best boiler .A ideal stnd 40/60 boiler fitted in 67 and ( repeat ).never let me down ,in a fairly big detached house 10 rads.Bills are fairly low ,and cannot have it on full as its gets tropical inside . So simple ,cast iron heat exchanger ,gas valve ,and thermostat .And pump renewed 25 years ago .How can modern boilers beat that .lol
What a good informative video. As a retired ships chief engineer I like to think I know a little bit about various boilers/systems. This video explains essentials in simple terms that most customers will be able to understand and so help them make a good decision. By the way I have just had installed a Worcester-Bosch Style 8000, 35Kw combi boiler and EasyControl thermostat by an accredited installer and so get the 12 year guarantee. (This replaced 30+ years old Worcester). So far, so very good. The only comment I would make is that there are no written instructions available for the EasyControl smart phone app, which is easy to use but I would have liked a detailed explanation. Old fashioned I know!
Great IMFORMATIVE VIDEO and very concise, learnt a lot !! keep up the GOOD work !! Retired plumber and heating engineer still learning in my 70 year's young !!
Valliant Boilers: the Mercedes benz of boilers. My diverter valve started to leak in two years but then again: my radiators were not flushed: Had them flushed and since then the boilder worked flawlessly.
It's probably fair to say that combi-boilers grew to dominance mainly through new-builds. The boiler itself might be a bit more expensive than heat-only, but for big house builders they much prefer nowadays to fit a combi because it saves them the added cost, manpower, and extra space requirements that come with fitting a water tank and all the related plumbing and wiring. If you live in an older house with a tank already fitted, you've got to think hard about whether you're better off getting rid of it.
I thought that the new modern combi and system boilers had modulating gas valves that varied the size of the flame according to demand so that when the heat requirement was low the flame was low. Say in the region of 6 Kw hour, and up to what ever the output capacity of the boiler for high demand. so it did not matter if you had a slightly larger combi boiler to give a higher capacity for domestic hot water for a bath that filled reasonably quickly.
@@mrcombiBedford WB old rubbish recycled...at least they made an effort on the PRV...Vaillant yes agreed and Intergas Nope takes too long for parts to arrive and they are extortionate prices on parts AND their technical support is shite BAXI Alpha Vaillant all the way
@@chohanchohan8208 I used to install loads of Intergas, my two installers put loads in the very very reliable one pressure switch (muck) part from P Centre was 2 days. Mine is 8 years our daughter is 3 years both zero faults. As always it's down to installation and 12 month regular maintenance , regards george
My WB system boiler has a warranty of 8 years . Installed last September. We had a 80,000BTU CF floor mounted Ideal E Type. Fabulous. Worked 44 years and totally reliable only maintenance a thermocouple every 25 years. Dead easy to replace. But energy prices have got at me. We have a 4 bed house , fairly large but my wife wanted an airing cupboard. No combi then. The new WB is in the garage so no noise ( attached to house closely) . I hope it lasts a long time but won't last 44 years but nor will gas central heating. The world has gone mad. I am too old to bother.
As a greek heating technician I have to say that it is an honour to have you as my internet instructor 🙏The knowledge and the information that you share are just invaluable 👏
I'd be very interested to see the actual gas savings from using a combi vs stored hot water- I very much doubt there are any! A comb fores every single time a tap is opened. It heats itself first, then the water, then the pipes- by the time hot water reaches the taps the boiler might have been firing at full power for twenty seconds. Repeat this dozens of times a day and it soon adds up to a lot of wasted heat. A cylinder heats once or twice per day under normal use. A modest sized cylinder looses around 1kwh of energy per 24 hours- that's about 3p worth of gas. Don't forget, that in winter that heat "lost" from your tank makes a small contribution to keeping your home warm too- so for six months of the year your central heating has to work a tiny bit less hard! A tank gives you a back up option (immersion heater) and a heat only boiler is less complicated and therefore longer lived than a combi.
As you say it's for one outlet only, with about 21 million dwellings over 60% are 3 bed or less thus a combi is the correct choice, for larger hot water demand we have U Vented with a combi or system boiler. It's up to the installer and customer to fit the correct system for the house, too often wrong.
Mr Combi Training & Sales Someone with a vested interest in selling combis would say that! The only redeeming feature of a combi is that they are space saving, at a push i would use one if I was refurbing a small flat for sale. I would never have one in my own property, and I would never install one as a landlord because they fail so regularly and it pisses tenants off, not to mention costs a fortune in emergency repairs.
@@spencerwilton5831 Hi Spencer, A bit harsh, combies only exists because stored water is so expensive and unhygienic. I agree combies are not for dwellings of more than one water outlet, but that is 70% + what we live in. The UK installers are the worst in Europe which is very sad. I have been a trainer for over 30 years and Mr Combi Training for over 18, every week we get installers 20+ years in the heating world NEVER fitted a by-pass, frost stat, TRVs as standard, external vessel as required. Systems not balanced or flushed our and NEVER put inhibitor which is why boilers bread down and these emergence engineers keep making a load of money, I used to be one. It's not my fault the system is mess but I will fix it. Your car mechanic WILL change parts BEFORE they break down we should copy. Any moving part at 6 years is due to fail, installers say when it breaks down call me- what? That's the problem we have in 2020 2021 etc. regards george staszak Mr Combi Training, we only train installers to become breakdown engineers who will make a lot of money for many years.
Hi Tomkat, I had a Stelrad old style Boiler with a Hot Water Tank upstairs. It worked perfectly for 45 years until it started to leak rusty water last winter. I got a Vaillant 830 Combi replacement and i must say what a life changer not having to heat the water tank up to have a bath and also whilst in bed during the winter i can switch on the heating with a remote control box during the night from my bed . I do suspect though that my new Boiler is oversized for a 3 Bedroom House. Who knows. Interestingly my bills are not any better, especially the Electric which is quite high. Stevie in Fife.
Worth asking the next boiler servicing (ideally the same firm who installed your one or who installs the same brand) and ask what can be done to make it run more efficiently. I've also heard that only some controllers work with X gas boiler brands, forget smart controls. The bigger issue is that most non supersmart controls are not tested against boilers
I like these video's immensely. These are PROPER reviews,and the likes of yourself and allen hart give an absolutely no-nonsense verdict on these products. straight talking yorkshiremen do not mince their words.You will get a brutally honest opinion on stuff,
Baxi 800 Combi all day long, magna clean in the box & 10 year guarantee. Fitted loads and not a problem on any of them. Great reward scheme for installers too.
All boilers are extremely good and reliable, we have a big problem with unregistered installers who are used. They rip off customers and we have to fix it. Too many will not pay the correct amount and get the job done correctly.
@@ME-ol9gk My two mates Chris n Stewart do all my old customers we never charge less than £2.2K, we up-sale with boiler controls Danfoss eco TRV's etc plus 10 G;tee we learnt a long time ago how to make a presentation pack with factory promo bits and charge more than other quotes by quality, People will pay. george staszak
Forget the budget, its Vaillant boilers in all situations, they are not too expensive, especially when your cheaper boiler goes down. They are the most reliable and easy to work on. A dirty system needs cleaning and a magnatite filter should be fitted so your diverter then won't fail. It's the Rolls Royce of boilers and I have been fitting them for over 25years, tried others and regretted it. No brainer!
Been quoted for an ideal logic. Priced at £1650 with smart therm and powerflush. Price seems good but is the boiler long lasting? I will always service annually.
Excellent video Derek, packed with a wide range of information its very difficult for the average consumer (me) to take in. Watched this video a couple of days after my heating guy advised and fitted (replacement) a Worcester Greenstar 30si in our medium size 1930's solid wall double fronted semi with one bathroom. Hopefully a good choice for my circumstances. In the process of trying to work out the best auto setting for the EPH. Also watched a very simple balancing video from "Skill Builder", if needed in the future. I used to think computers (my expertise) were complex but heating a house is up there with them :)
Agree with the emphasis on system quality - hugely overlooked and plays a big part in the reliability of any cheap or expensive boiler. No such thing as a bad boiler 🤓
I had an Ideal Combi boiler installed early 2019. I think they took the ancient Baxi one I had to an archaeology museum? I have a hand held remote about the size of a small round alarm clock with touch sensitive controls to control the heating. It bypasses all the thermostat and other controls on the wall. I get hot water on demand, so only pay to heat up what I use. It has slashed my utility costs by a third. Absolutely amazing. I had previously gone through two harsh winters with no heating or hot water, so I really appreciated getting the new boiler and then some. Plus it freed up so much more storage room in both my cupboards as I no longer required a cylinder. Two chaps working full time were all done and completed in just six hours. They even declined a cup of tea when I offered and I make good tea. 👍😜🤦♂️👀✌
Worcesters had so many problems in the past, whichever model. I liked Intergas combis: A cast alloy burner/heat exchanger with two copper tubes snaking through it, 1 about 22mm for heating, the other about 15mm for HW (heated directly by the burner). No diverter valve or secondary HE for HW to clog up - the pump just doesn't run in HW mode; no auto air vent to seize up - manual bleed valve instead. The 240v fans on the larger capacity ones had problems, but the 24v ones were fine. 10 year guarantee, too. Dutch firm, Worcester wanted to buy them out. They only had 1 or 2 models back then - a bewildering choice now
I have had my VIESSMANN 200W Weather Compensation Combination Boiler for 13 years, regular service only recently had new water flow switch, spark contacts, flame electrode, burner chamber gasget, & new outside temperature sensor, its going to be upgraded for Internet and new low energy pump, so yes I'm very happy its well made for sure 👍
I think that you were a bit negative about Baxi, was that your opinion or the findings of WHICH, I personally find them to be excellent and have good customer service but good video all the same.
I've put in a viessmann vitotrol a few years ago and its easily the best combi I've had to date it heats up the house as quick as my kettle boils and 5 year guarantee superb!
Yes Phil .I have fitted loads of them now very very good also quiet and efficient, think u meant vitodens not vitotrol!? Which one do you have the 100 series?
Sorry yeah vitodens! Mind you I've now fitted the hive system on it because the viessmann thermostat was just a bit to complicated than it really needed to be and I'm very pleased with the whole heating system the viessmann boiler was probably a bit more expensive than the rest but definitely worth the extra!
@@philmoffett366 Yes I know what you mean! I have fitted over 20 viessmann boilers but found customers can’t operate the vitotrol thermostat so stopped using them, even I can’t understand how to operate them! Your boiler may have been a bit more expensive than the others you were quoted on but only the viessmann boiler can give you good economy on the gas savings Once all the house is heated they drop down to a very quiet tick over and operate on a lower gas rate typically around approximately 20p an hour . of the ones I fitted people noticed a gas consumption drop of about 20 to 40%. The viessmann technology Is more advanced than other brands and they have won multiple awards for it
@@SalimKhan-gk1fh that's interesting to know! I just went for the viessmann because of the little bit of research I did and recommended opinion it did stack up as a good boiler but what has transformed it is I have installed a hive on it and it's so much more accurate with the temperature and more importantly much more useable👍 sometimes modern technology can be a pain at times but in this case its brilliant! At work all day use my phone to switch it on 15 minutes before I get home..........brilliant👍
@@philmoffett366 That’s good to know which model did you fit ? did you fit the 100 series or the 050? Have you noticed any drop in your gas consumption as most of the ones I fitted people noticed a good drop in gas use also have you noticed they are a very quiet running boiler?
My ideal Stelrad boiler was installed in 1992. Still going strong, never failed and cost £230. I’ll never change it until it fails. I have cheap rate electricity heating a 300 litre tank and a solid fuel fire for winter which also heats the tank negating the need for the immersion in winter.
My Ideal Stelrad wall mounted boiler has just bitten the dust, I believe it was fitted in the 80s. the heat exchanger had rusted through and it started leaking, so I’m just about to have a new boiler, probably a Baxi I bet no boilers these days last as long as those old cast iron jobbies.
You're unlucky bhaijee as they're the best and the Asian choice. Worcester Bosch use an aluminium heat exchanger which is substandard vs. stainless steel in the Ideal.
Great informative video. Confirmed my understanding about the complete installation needing to be considered and done properly. I'm not a heating engineer, however it surprises me how many have commented and insisted they know the best boiler. Maybe they need to look at the video again but with an open mind. Pros - great advice on what to consider for consumers and heating engineers. Cons - the cuts in the video are a bit annoying at first but well worth persevering. Keep up the good work!
Don’t be surprised by people leaving a comment on which they think is the best best I left a comment at the top of this page just below the video . this is through 15 years experience of fitting a particular brand ( viessmann) From my point of view as an engineer and from the customer’s point of view in terms of satisfaction this brand is number one in Europe & uk its also the most efficient
@@SalimKhan-gk1fh I understand your reply and agree that there are very good reports of satisfied customers and installers with Viessman but you are looking with a very narrow view as a good installer who ensures that you only fit to a good, clean system. A Viessman boiler properly installed may well be the best, or at least one of the best, however the point that Derek was making with the video is that the best boiler fitted by an installer that takes short-cuts is more likely to experience problems than a cheaper boiler installed properly. The other point is that if a customer expects a particular feature such as instant hot water, they won't be satisfied with a combi boiler with a long pipe run to the taps. To sum it up, it is important to use a good heating engineer who will discuss and advise on the most suitable boiler TYPE and will then source and properly install an affordable brand. I am looking at a Viessman or Worcester Bosch System boiler plus new cylinder at the moment but will find an accredited installer with good feedback as I believe that it will give me the best chance of an installation which is trouble free in the future (provided that the 12 monthly services are performed!).
I'm not a gas fitter, but I choose an Intergas ECO RF 36. No plastic parts and leaks, no diverter valve or plate heat exchanger to get clogged up. Two years old and no problems so far.
Vaillant Turbomax, 21 years great service finally replaced last week with a Baxi 830. The Vaillant went through 5 or 6 divertor valves and one fan. I hope the Baxi lasts as long, its much smaller, much quieter and hopefully, more efficient.
@@kevinwilliams1421 I think the issue was using refurbished valves rather than new original manufactured valves. Around £40.00 if you send in the old valve against £190.00 to buy new, I used to get between 2 to 3 years out of a refurbished valve before the inevitable loss of hot water at the tap, a few times it was a punctured diaphram, others it was the weak plastic lever not engaging the microswitch. An hour or so to change a valve, as long as you didn't snap the plastic retaining clip at one of the inlets.
@@Vincent-dc6ku 99 times out of a hundred with no hot water on a tmax is the plastic wheel in the flow sensor…now I’ve literally changed hundreds of them
Very well fair unbiased report on selecting a boiler manufacturer. I totally agree with you that choosing the right system is the key to an energy efficient hot water and heating system and it should be a mandatory requirement using a weather compensated heating system in the uk. Manufacturers need to incorporate a weather compensator compulsory so the boiler is not over cycling and is working at it’s optimum. Sweeden and other countries have a far better understanding on heating design and usage. Boiler longevity would be achieved and fuel poverty would decrease. Well done Derek you are a credit to the heating industry.
Zahur Weather compensation now is mandatory, As part of boiler plus viessmann Have been supplying vitodens boilers with a compensation sensor in the box with the new boiler for over two years now. The gas savings and efficiency have been impressive
Top Tips on the set up of any system! My 25 year old Valiant combi is hanging in there but for how long who knows keeping it alive by descaling heat plate each year and replacing parts as they leak is working for now. A new boiler & installation cost vs energy savings and new boiler in 15 years approx is food for thought & i found your video very informative especially about the heat controls & modulation! Thank you!!!
Good video, as an gas safe registered installer I agreed with most of the points raised. When installing a system or heat only boiler it’s important to stress to the uninformed consumer that there isn’t a diverter valve to breakdown internally on the boiler with that said would be good to hear opinions on the best type of materials used on heat exchangers these days, my self I am now moving towards stainless steel as it’s seems more durable long term(10 years on) . 100% agree on a clean system being a must, power flushing and inhibitor is essential .
We've just had a Worcester/Bosh fitted with the app to control it from our phones, it's great and does everything very well, thought I was buying a U.K. built boiler but no it's made in Germany. The only problem we have is that it loses pressure once a week and needs topping up, takes about 10 seconds to do that so no big deal, there must be a small leak somewhere? Now the big problem is that the boiler fitters have been informed but getting them back to investigate just isn't happening, bloody typical.
Great video Derek, and thank you for all the info you have put here on RUclips, It helped me a lot in preparing for my ACS and getting on the gas safe register. Much appreciated 👍
Back in the 80s had a baxi with a dial for temp 1-6 left it on 1 spring and autumn and left the boiler on cheap as chips to run toasty warm no room stat
Baxi are hands down the best boiler on the market at the moment. Parts are a reasonable price. And I’ve found customer service to be very good. The 600/800 combis are brilliant.
@@heatpump8566 you don’t need to range rate modern boilers much anymore. Unless you are 20kw out, the modulation rate is huge, baxi are 10-1 modulation on the current range. Baxi and Worcester and working together on hydrogen boilers. So I wouldn’t say they are years behind, just no need for over engineering boilers
How about the Main eco compact? Exactly the same as Baxi 600/800 but at third the price! The only downside being they only come with a 5 year warranty instead of 7 or 10.
Not a fan of any new boiler, the on.y thing that ever went wrong with old boilers was the 'thermocouple ' every now and then,now it's a £400 control unit,
Six years ago, we exchanged our good -old free-standing Worcester Boiler, for a Vaillant eco something or other. ''The Rolls Royce'' of boiler's we were told. They extended their normal 2 year Guarantee, to 3 yrs. Despite that, and regular servicing, we have had to call out 'The Man' 5 times, with failed or failing--parts. Roll Royce eh? well the cost of the parts were. Very disppointed.
Would you agree that more modern the gas boiler (with high efficiency due to complex and fragile electronics) are all engineered to fail in a far shorter time period than those made 15/20 years ago?
Brilliant video everyone should take note of the comments, it's NOT the boiler but the installation that ruins boiler and keeps breaking down and costing money. Love the videos form TomKat, regards george staszak Mr Combi Training
Disagree ... as a repair engineer there are plenty of boilers I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole these days ... ideal and Worcester are on that list as well now
@@russthomas02 great when you can turn down work. As a repair engineer should you look at these boilers as a challenge then and take great satisfaction when you get the boiler running and put a big smile on your customers face.
@@tomkatgastraining I repair them no problem but to install for my customers I steer them away from makes that I have to repair often .... why would I recommend a boiler that’s not reliable IMO
@@russthomas02 they all seam to give massive warranty’s now on boilers some even giving 12 years and more so I don’t get why as engineers we hate boilers. Don’t get me wrong some are better to fit than others and some have a poor build quality but at the end of the day as the video says it’s all about the best boiler for the customer.
The one boiler I refuse to fit but do fix them (often) is Worcester Botch. Customer rings up saying " my Worcester Bosch is leaking", me " what side is it leaking from right or left?" Then I know what bit of cheap rubbish plastic has failed.
You make a lot of sense, however as the bulk of UK homes are many decades old have original flow design of 82 Deg C, therefore the condensing boiler hardly runs in condensing mode to meet the older design temperatures and house heat losses. Nothing is simple!
great video! i actually got 13 years out of an ideal isar 24 but it was constantly on preheat HW (costly if you live alone), very basic CH modulation with over sensitive HW activation (as 1 drip from a HW tap run the boiler at full). My new Worcester 30i CH has noticeably better modulation as it turns the burner off before reaching set temp, as not to over shoot set temp. HW is perfect for my mixer shower with 12.5 ltrs per min. The Eco option finally stops preheating the HW in summer that dogged the isar, but only time will tell especially with my gas bill.
What an excellent video - this guy obviously knows what hes talking about - wish i could use him personally to sort my very old system but living in cornwall doubt thats possible -
Excellent Overview. Thank you. I have had absolute nightmares with plumbers who have done terrible jobs. They're primary concern is to charge as much money as possible and do a rubbish job, with minimum effort. NOT ALL plumbers are like this and there are some Excellent plumbers out there I'm sure. It's got so bad that in the end I have decided to Give-Up and tune into this channel and learn about central heating systems / plumbing. I'll then be able to understand and check the design and their work. Fortunately I have a technical background so it all makes sense. Should I need to do this though? It is what it is / that's life. Thank you again, great information.
Outstanding communication! Pleased to have my combi de-mystified, and to be so much better prepared for choosing replacement. Ten-year old Baxi condenser keeps going but pressure can be erratic, up and down. Would like to learn optimum balance between setting of water temperature, room thermostat and use of the timer because boiler seems happier set to 'always on' but regulated only by the remote room thermostat. This beastly Baxi dislikes being off for several hours, won't let me go away for a weekend!
I have a Viessmann 200w , jig , flue and adey magnaclean , ready to be installed next week after a 2 hour magna cleanse . You are right, The home owner knows his house ,the heating engineer hopefully is more knowledgeable about correct operation and installation and commissioning. Hopefully this boiler will be keeping up and not playing catch up, with the weather compensation on a North wall.
yes indeed. I was planning on a baxi 624 pack bought new,but scoured marketplace and got a worcester+flue for the same price.adey filter was courtesy of marketplace too. not shy about saying this but with gas prices going the way they are i needed a quick fix.the quotes i was getting for a new full system was £1000+ over what i could afford if i bought new on the market. gumtree and FB markeplace are your friends!...couldn't have done this otherwise. all real deal genuine parts,just leftovers to someon'es DIYjob.
The ideal icos/ISAR boiler was quite reliable if it was installed on a clean system and service properly ,by dismantling. Taking the fan /burner assembly and the sump cover of.,to clean out thoroughly. I was talked into installing a Remarhra ( a Baxi brand) boiler. The worst decision I ever made. They always came with dirty rusty water inside the water ways! The first I cleaned out and commissioned broke down within 24 hours on the Saturday. The service department eventually showed up on the following Wednesday! The second one came in the same state so I returned it and got a glow-worm instead.
@@mrcombiBedford Servowarm were taken over by NPower I think. I WAS a customer, asked them to install a Bosc Worcester combi but they ignored what I wanted and installed a shitty Baxi 105HE - so they lost my custom for good and good riddance to them!
@@CH-vb5kr Hi CH, thanks for the update, that's very bad they ignored your wishes, 105e is a monster with higher running costs. I think that Baxi is one of a few firms that does not allow down-rating the heating to match your rads out put, I don't like that. Our Unit has 12KW of rads why should I put auto 24KW and expect to save more money than I can now. They won't give me a boiler to test against my Vaillant, I wonder why regards george staszak Mr Combi Training
I have allway use INTER GAS boiler and is one off the best combi boiler neaver had any problems read the reviews on google this boiler is from holland I have already installed 5 boiler in different places
yes I did enjoy the video and it is very informative, I am not impressed with the running costs/maintentance of boilers produced over the last 20 year .. I would have liked to hear you comment on Saunier Duval also as I regularly see Thelia/ Thema being replaced after 25 years only because of their age and the introduction of government schemes. I know they were from a different era and don't have the high tech/complcations of a condensing boiler with extensive electronics but the running costs over the lifetime has been very small by comparison .. would you like to make a short comment? thank you.
CH System design is more important than simply boiler choice. I designed the CH system for my new house in 1982 no room thermostat no isolation valves just danfoss TRV'S and RAV HW conroller with potterton Netaheat 16/22 sealed cabinet boiler with fan assisted flue an spark ignition(no pilot flame) the system ran perfectly efficently for over 35 years and was only changed when i was unable to obtain replacement parts for the boiler . The TVR's remain installed and working. The Potterton 16/22 boiler was the most advanced boiler on the market in 1982 and would still be operating today if i was able to obtain spare parts for it. My New condensing boiler (installed in 2007) produced problems from installation but then the manufacturers service document lists almost 100 fault conditions. The old boilers with cast iron heat exchangers fan assisted flue and simple controls where and still are the most reliable .
An excellent broad view of the issues that should be considered with a gas heating installation. As several have remarked, there is a real question about progress. Reliability and product quality has become questionable, sometimes brought on by poor quality maintenance. Efficiency payback takes so long that a 10 year life expectancy does not equate.
My old Gloworm boiler is at least 30 yrs old and apart from changing thermocouples and cleaning is still like new in 10 years my son is on his 5th combi boiler simple is best
I have to correct what you said regarding Viessmann divertor valves, There was an issue with them way back on the WB1A model between 2006/7. (long since sorted out) Since then they have been bulletproof. Also all Viessmann domestic boiler heat exchangers are manufactured from stainless steel.
Great video to unravel the points to consider when selecting a replacement boiler/ ch system. so much technology about its easy to over specify if you just read the adverts.
Really good information. Proves that there is no such thing as a 'best' boiler just like there is no such thing as a best car. It depends what's best for you.
Great video with so much information about things I hadn't taken into consideration. I have an old Worcester HiFlow 35 stand alone boiler and the 1st thing I need to do is install a magnetic filter. I have fitted smart valves on all the radiators which has increased the efficiency of the system. The other question which wasn't covered was what fuel are we going to be using in 10 years time. I live in the West Midlands and Natural gas is being mixed with Hydrogen on a trial at 85-15% ratios. Do you think that we're going to be turning to 100% and are therefore going to need to have new burners fitted like we did when moving from coal gas to natural gas?
All new boilers will have gas valves that can tell how much hydrogen is with the gas. I believe if we keep the hydrogen lower than 20% the gas valves don’t need changing in the older boilers. Thanks for watching cheers 👍🏻
Without any doubt the best boiler is The Archie Kidd Boiler. When I bought my house in 2006 the Kidd boiler hadn't been serviced for 13 years but was still running well. Needless to say I did have it serviced. I even spoke to Mr Adam Kidd on one occasion. With great regret the business no longer exists so I worry slightly about the future of my boiler. It will be a sad day if I have to replace it. Is there anyone out there who knows how to service a Gas Archie Kidd boiler?
The more the efficiency of gas boilers and led lighting increases the more they charge you to supply you energy. Smart meters recoup money buy registering the on off incorrectly on led lighting as a led is only on for half the time you use it hence the flicker on some cameras.
I'd like to see reviews that show what thermostats are opentherm compatible. Few mention it. Like to also see some advise on when to do a powerflush and where should TRVs go. Also some future reviews on water tanks, hybrid gas and heat pumps and what additives are recommended.
"And even Baxi" ? I admit that Baxi aren't perfect, but I have found them to be the best of an otherwise bad lot. As for "Which Report" in 2008 they gave the Baxi Duo-Tec "Boiler of the year" with the Potterton Gold coming in second place. They went on to state the areas the Duo-Tec preformed better than the Gold. This brought a smile to my face! They are the same boiler with even the same part numbers for spares.
You said that cavitation causes air, but this is not the case. Cavitation usually occurs on the suction side of a pump impellor due to the low pressure at that point, and it is this low pressure which causes the water to locally boil. So the cavitation bubbles are actually water vapour, not air. Cavitation reduces pump efficiency and, as each microscopic bubble collapses, it emits sound energy which, over time, can damage pump impellors. I just had a Baxi regular boiler installed at my parent's house. The main problem is that the ignition is very robust, nay startling. The local Baxi rep took a look at it and it's now somewhat improved, but I'm still not happy with it, and I'm not going to specify Baxi in my own home, despite the existing Baxi old-tech boiler still running after 33 years.
Very informative video, many thanks. I visited the Bosch Worcester factory about 8 years ago. It was very impressive particularly the Quality Assurance and testing programmes.
You need to look at the Intergas boilers. Much superior than any you mention. Built like tanks. Well ahead of all else. The only combi that can be open vented as well. It will convert from system/heat only boiler to a combi by pressing buttons. Only _four_ moving parts with no troublesome 3-way diverter valve. They a can be used as a multi-point water heater with the CH system dry - not even fitted with water, they are so well made. I have no connection with Intergas, just impressive products, and they are priced competitively,
@@tomkatgastraining All due respect, however your title says _WHICH IS THE_ *_BEST_* _GAS BOILER IN 2020._ Not the best _selling._ Installers who fit Intergas boilers tend to stick with them, as they are highly impressive - as once fitted no call backs. I have had the combi fitted on old open vent systems still using the open vented F&E tank, as the rads were old and looked like they would pop if pressurized adding needless extra cost, and hassle, to the customer. They come complete with weather compensation and an excellent control system. Some versions modulate down to 3.6 kW - the boiler most of the time just sits there purring on a low kW rate. Some models use only one plastic pipe for the condensate and pressure relief making installation easier again. A number of guys mentioned Intergas on these comments. I believe Intergas have sold over 100,000 boilers in the UK and not through any intensive advertising or promotions - mainly by recommendations. They are easily and readily available. Plumb Center were promoting them a few years back. Vaillant at one time wanted to make under licence the Intergas heat exchanger, Integas refused. Rheem, one of the biggest HVAC/boiler/water companies in the world last year bought out Intergas in Holland. I always look to Intergas as the first option in boilers, as they are clearly excellent and well priced. Great bang for buck. Recently I had to fit a Keston (Ideal) as they had the long 50mm plastic flue options. In another, fit a Navien (great boilers - Navien are the world largest combi manufacturers) as it is the only boiler that can be fitted _outside._ The *BEST* boilers on the market in the UK are: ♦ Intergas (Dutch); ♦ ATAG (Dutch); ♦ Navien (Sth Korean); They are in a league of their own, with quality of manufacture apparent. The rest are in the league below at best.
Very Infomative video and clear explanantion as to why regular maintenance is a top priority and key to performance and longevity for boilers and components. 😀Right size selection for the boiler is well understood especially with high modulation. You paid great emphasis as to this point and as I am about to buy a new boiler (emergency purchase) I am now reassessing changes to my selection. My only concern is rightsizing for my current house size in the knowledge renovation which will imrove thermal efficiency of the home and add a shower and one bedroom will make choice of boiler size questionable. Based on that do I right size for the additional load now? If I do then I would think there is an option to install a non vented system at a later date for hot water supply. Option to install unvented now is not possible due to space for cylinder. But I would consider that a combi boiler with a percentage of available overcapcity now could be used to service an unvented heat exchanger via diverter valve at a later date in event of introduction of living space and hot watwer load. Thanks again for yiour informative video. maintance maintance
No mention of Intergas boilers combined with Tado smart . Only 4 moving parts no reversing valve to go wrong ! Mine has been in for 7 years working perfectly . Also it's ok the makers give you multiple years warranties but you probably end up paying as much as a new boiler in the end .
Thank You for your Reply Tomcat Gas Training , I've lived and brought up My family on mostly 'Baxi' back Boilers and other makes and I can assure you that ALL of them are mounted on an OUTSIDE Wall were they get their Air supply and the Exaused goes up the Chimney Look at the Facts How many People have Died in the Twenty Year Period of Baxi Type Boilers and How many in Todays ????
I had the misfortune to be advised by my plumber to fit a LPG Baxi Neta Tec combi boiler. It has been unreliable since installing! Now six years on it has been issued with a danger do not use notice because it was exceeding 4000ppm carbon monoxide in the flue test. It commonly made a loud bang when starting, this was followed by error codes. Eventually in year four it baffled two plumbers as to why it was issuing different error codes. Eventually Baxi sent their main man out, he was baffled but eventually discovered a tiny leak from the heat exchanger which was dripping onto a switch. When he removed the boiler he found it was distorted, presumably due to the banging when starting up. He replaced all the internals. Now at a mere six years old our gas installer is recommending a new boiler given the history of ours. He is recommending an Ariston combi 30kw.LPG he recommends that over the Worcester Bosch 30i LPG. What would you advise?
So much useful information. Especially for us guys who are new to the game. Found this really interesting. I’ll be watching this again for sure. Thanks Derek 👍🏻 Asian Jon. Training.
I won’t use any of them my gloworm boiler is so reliable it’s still going for more then 25yrs without any breakdown please everyone go for gloworm boiler.
This also depends on how old your water cylinder is. A modern one means you might be able to reuse it in a future heat pump system. We know it will be hydrogen boilers in 10yrs. Gas won't save the planet at all just lower your fuel bill.
Another awesome video thanks. Lots of useful information as usual from you given us honest reviews . I agree with you it doesn’t matter what boiler you fit if you don’t set it up right in the beginning it’s never going to last 😂.
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personally, i dont think any of the modern boilers match up to the reliability of the old boilers from 30 years old and older, its important to mention that if you have an old boiler, you have a peace of mind that they were bullet proof. engineers call them bullet proof because they hardly ever broke down, be it an old glowworm, potterton, vaillant, vulcan, ideal, worcester, or any other. there are still people who dont realise that the have a boiler in the chimney, because they hardly broke down and over time, in 15 , 20 years, the person forgot they had a boiler in the chimney. i know someone will point out the service issue, but im just making a point. i did a flue sample on a 30 year old boiler and the co /co2 was 0.0008 i think, and on the same day, another 2 year old boiler, and it was 0.001, so the efficiency on the old was better. just like some old and new cars. people make savings on gas bills, bit sometimes the repair on a new boiler is huge, even a new boiler in some cases, i had this twice on a viessmann. and getting the right parts onviessman is hard if the serial number happens to have been rubbed out or something.dirt in systems didnt much affect in causing boiler breakdowns before the turbomax ranges, same goes with expansion vessels and diverter, its the quality of parts thats gone down, o rings lasted 20 years without going hard, now its very less, same with fibre washers, before they were leather, now its like some paper composite.boilers were bulet proof. no manufacturer can claim theirs as bullet proof. they all keep their own old boilers in their training centers because the old boilers were meant to last a lifetime. didnt need a warranty of 5 , 10, or 15 years, neither did they need proof that the boiler was serviced (is it about 2 minute with no tools). i thought i would put this comment in because i repair many boilers, and ive repaired 30 year old boilers where engineers said that this cant be repaired, and it cost the customer maybe £70 instead or £3000 (plus problems for warranty due to sludge/debris). old is gold, if it can be fixed, try to fix, try too save the customer money, taking into account the yearly gas bills and what the can actually save.new biler life 5 years? maybe less ?im not being argumentative, but i thought i would show a different genuine view point.
You are correct those old boilers had a gas valve and stat so they never broke down. As rich as you are your gas bill would be over double it is today and not very green.
Dear zubs ,I’m afraid I think you are totally wrong in your ideas about boilers yes the old ones were a bit more reliable a bit like 1980s cars and mobile phones they were built to last for decades but this is not what people want they are more Conscience of the environmental impact of running an old cast-iron boiler which is only 60% efficient that’s literally throwing 40% of energy through the flue pipe! secondly, how did you have trouble getting parts for a viessmann boiler? Serial number rubbed off?
There is a serial number on top of the boiler ,another one on the base panel of the boiler and also another one inside the boiler also there is the part number visible on most of the parts ! nine years ago I removed a Potterton netaheat cast-iron boiler and replaced with a viessmann vitodens 100 Combination boiler, during the last nine years it has been reliable and has paid for itself on the gas savings alone, 9 years x £300 per year = £2700 savings ! how did you find that the new combination boilers only last five years or less? This is the first time I have heard of this if you fit a quality combination boiler (preferably German-made) it will last you 15 years and if you change your boiler after 15 years you will not be complaining as it will have served you well .
It is all down to the installation quality . I only fit viessmann now since last 10 years, top quality
@@SalimKhan-gk1fh Hi Salim, I have installed many Viessmann's brilliant boiler and after sales, never had one problem, we have one here for Training, the point is efficances. In the 1970 80's loads of back boilers big cast iron high poluting units, thanks to very cleaver engineers in R&D we now have 90%+. Offically all boiers
are ment for 12 years, some will last much longer if installed / maintained correctly. Too many are not thus last 5 years don't blame ihe manufacture blame the installer. Why do we still see photos in Gas Installer mag. My 2 installers are told NEVER work on any boiler over 15 and if the repair in over £500 then fit a Ravenheat 98HE. Thanks for your reply, regards george staszak
Dear Zubs, When I started in 1970 we all just installed because we were not trainined to repair untill Vaillant started, thank God. 5 years later they broke down thus a new bread (me) evolved breakdown engineers. for the next 30 years I spend fixing installs and faults. Today 2020 we get the same: Nr1 fault is undersized gas pipe, sludge, no by-pass, controls etc. etc. why is the standard so low? Take care george staszak Mr Combi Training
@@mrcombiBedford Hi George thank you for your reply the reason I gave big reply was because zubs he’s giving the wrong information to people! okay I agree 1970s & 80’s cast-iron boiler was the most reliable,But they are not efficient at all, Most of the fuel is wasted and over 40% is going out to the flu to atmosphere as pollution okay so 1980s Mercedes was the best very solid and built like a tank, but these days people will not accept 20 mpg efficiency from their car! I gave you example of the viessmann vitodens boiler I fitted , fitting cost was about £2000 butBecause it is efficient it has saved £300 per year on gas consumption, Very reliable last nine years if it last another 5-6 years this is okay for customer. Are you based in the UK ?because in the UK the installers are not doing very good job of the installation.
Quite right about old boilers. I have a 25 year old Camray Oil boiler and still going strong. What is the progress having to renew them every 10 years. What is the point of high efficiency when they only last 10 years?
Burn less fuel?
@@edc1569 Yes I suppose so with 30% extra efficiency they would pay for themselves in 10 years . Since I posted that comment I sold my house with the old boiler and got a house with one of the new ones in it and what really makes the difference is in new radiators.
True, what's the point
@@CommercialGasEngineerVideos The money that is saved in fuel over a period of the life of the boiler is cancelled out by the cost of its replacement. I think I would rather have an inefficient boiler that could go on for 30 years than one that has to be replaced every 8 or so years.
@@rodneycooperLMSCoach all seems like a scam to me. Think I'd rather have a machine that's less efficient but lasts 30 years than the headache and cost of replacing a boiler every 10 years. So many environmental friendly schemes seem like they are there to line pockets rather than save the environment or the customers outgoings.
Have had a Potterton system boiler for 13 years and only one warranty issue. Getting kitchen done and replacing with Baxi 800 - backed with a 10-year-warranty. Spoke to three different gas engineers who all rate the Baxi for ease of fitting and reliability.
Being one who records whilst they work and edits in the twilight hours. I know the difficulties and how much effort goes into making these videos. Material like this is undervalued. Education has changed so much with RUclips. Society are gaining the equivalent of a RUclips plumbing degree. It's good when it's used for something positive like making individuals better engineers. Onsite experience is vital as well as real qualifications. Yet this media stream and experience passed on is helping nations strive to better engineering standards. It would have been a game changer if I had some of these videos when I initially qualified as a plumber 13 years ago. There was hardly anything like this to watch. It's great that the information is there for those that are thirsty to grow in their knowledge of the trade.
I agree with you Zubs as that has been my experience over the last 20 years after replacing ye olde faithful cast iron boiler. Maybe it’s just down to bad luck but since then I’ve had three different boilers , Vaillant failed after 5 years despite expensive attempts to repair , Potterton lasted 8 years again with expensive repairs & touch wood Baxi is still going but again with repairs Baxi . Most of the repairs always seemed to involve what I would call the electrical components of the boiler & the cost of replacing two ‘mother boards’ ( is that the right term ?) was eye watering. In my case even if as someone stated the cost of gas would be double it still wouldn’t have been more than installation, servicing & repair costs. As for the environmental side of it - well two boilers that have gone to the tip in the meantime isn’t very green.
This is why I am tempted to keep my 40 year old Ideal boiler. Minimal costs, a new gas valve and a couple of thermocouples. With corrosion inhibitor and smart valves only use about £700 of gas a year for a 2 bedroom semi-detached bungalow. Can't see a new boiler with yearly maintenance etc really being cheaper over 10years.
@Corsham Viton they just farm seem to fix their diverter and low water sensor problems
The advent of condensing boilers is probably the most significant leap in domestic boiler efficiency - ever. It is also the biggest job creation exercise keeping ‘gas engineers’ busy installing them and repairing them. However to gain fuel burn efficiency and keep the house comfortable, there needs to be less focus on which is the ‘best boiler’ and much more focus on the house, in terms of the heat losses, selecting a boiler of the right size and the sophistication of the control system to garner back efficiency. In addition, there needs to be some analysis of required system flow rates and what amendments are needed to the current pipework to enable that. Also, effective power flushing takes time - it is not a 30 minute exercise.
I am not at all sure if all ‘gas engineers’ are equal to the task, many are not able to do the above (or cannot be bothered) and just offer a ‘white box solution’ - hang it on the wall in a morning - job done. But it may not be the right boiler and any paper efficiencies may never be realised.
I defiantly going to stick with my ideal Mexico 2, been running for 56yrs without any problems 😀 (just found out it was installed 56yrs ago)
I just replaced the same boiler, Ideal Mexico in my house with a modern Combi. It must have been at least 40 years old. Essentially there was nothing wrong with it apart from its total inefficiency and I personally battled with replacing something that wasn't broken. I'm glad I did. My gas bill has now reduced remarkably by 70% and thus my carbon footprint. Which is a good thing. It is also extremely efficient and warms my house so quickly compared to the old boiler. The old boiler was bombproof and good for the time but hardly 'Ideal' for the modern world. Excuse the pun. Food for thought.
I installed the Mexico 2🤔 I thought they came out in the late 80,s even early 90's
Late 80s boiler.
I have the best boiler .A ideal stnd 40/60 boiler fitted in 67 and ( repeat ).never let me down ,in a fairly big detached house 10 rads.Bills are fairly low ,and cannot have it on full as its gets tropical inside .
So simple ,cast iron heat exchanger ,gas valve ,and thermostat .And pump renewed 25 years ago .How can modern boilers beat that .lol
What a good informative video. As a retired ships chief engineer I like to think I know a little bit about various boilers/systems. This video explains essentials in simple terms that most customers will be able to understand and so help them make a good decision. By the way I have just had installed a Worcester-Bosch Style 8000, 35Kw combi boiler and EasyControl thermostat by an accredited installer and so get the 12 year guarantee. (This replaced 30+ years old Worcester). So far, so very good. The only comment I would make is that there are no written instructions available for the EasyControl smart phone app, which is easy to use but I would have liked a detailed explanation. Old fashioned I know!
Thanks for watching and your comment cheers 👍🏻
This is one of the best videos I have ever seen... very educational and it helped me a lot. Cheers !
Great IMFORMATIVE VIDEO and very concise, learnt a lot !! keep up the GOOD work !! Retired plumber and heating engineer still learning in my 70 year's young !!
Valliant Boilers: the Mercedes benz of boilers. My diverter valve started to leak in two years but then again: my radiators were not flushed: Had them flushed and since then the boilder worked flawlessly.
It's probably fair to say that combi-boilers grew to dominance mainly through new-builds. The boiler itself might be a bit more expensive than heat-only, but for big house builders they much prefer nowadays to fit a combi because it saves them the added cost, manpower, and extra space requirements that come with fitting a water tank and all the related plumbing and wiring. If you live in an older house with a tank already fitted, you've got to think hard about whether you're better off getting rid of it.
I thought that the new modern combi and system boilers had modulating gas valves that varied the size of the flame according to demand so that when the heat requirement was low the flame was low. Say in the region of 6 Kw hour, and up to what ever the output capacity of the boiler for high demand. so it did not matter if you had a slightly larger combi boiler to give a higher capacity for domestic hot water for a bath that filled reasonably quickly.
I dont know about Best boiler But this is one of the the BEST Videos for our market...Thanks and will catch up soon..
I think the best 3 boilers are the new W Bosch, Vaillant green IQ and Intergas, regards george
@@mrcombiBedford WB old rubbish recycled...at least they made an effort on the PRV...Vaillant yes agreed and Intergas Nope takes too long for parts to arrive and they are extortionate prices on parts AND their technical support is shite BAXI Alpha Vaillant all the way
@@chohanchohan8208 I used to install loads of Intergas, my two installers put loads in the very very reliable one pressure switch (muck) part from P Centre was 2 days. Mine is 8 years our daughter is 3 years both zero faults. As always it's down to installation and 12 month regular maintenance , regards george
My WB system boiler has a warranty of 8 years . Installed last September. We had a 80,000BTU CF floor mounted Ideal E Type. Fabulous. Worked 44 years and totally reliable only maintenance a thermocouple every 25 years. Dead easy to replace. But energy prices have got at me. We have a 4 bed house , fairly large but my wife wanted an airing cupboard. No combi then. The new WB is in the garage so no noise ( attached to house closely) . I hope it lasts a long time but won't last 44 years but nor will gas central heating. The world has gone mad. I am too old to bother.
As a greek heating technician I have to say that it is an honour to have you as my internet instructor 🙏The knowledge and the information that you share are just invaluable 👏
I'd be very interested to see the actual gas savings from using a combi vs stored hot water- I very much doubt there are any! A comb fores every single time a tap is opened. It heats itself first, then the water, then the pipes- by the time hot water reaches the taps the boiler might have been firing at full power for twenty seconds. Repeat this dozens of times a day and it soon adds up to a lot of wasted heat. A cylinder heats once or twice per day under normal use. A modest sized cylinder looses around 1kwh of energy per 24 hours- that's about 3p worth of gas. Don't forget, that in winter that heat "lost" from your tank makes a small contribution to keeping your home warm too- so for six months of the year your central heating has to work a tiny bit less hard! A tank gives you a back up option (immersion heater) and a heat only boiler is less complicated and therefore longer lived than a combi.
As you say it's for one outlet only, with about 21 million dwellings over 60% are 3 bed or less thus a combi is the correct choice, for larger hot water demand we have U Vented with a combi or system boiler. It's up to the installer and customer to fit the correct system for the house, too often wrong.
Mr Combi Training & Sales Someone with a vested interest in selling combis would say that! The only redeeming feature of a combi is that they are space saving, at a push i would use one if I was refurbing a small flat for sale. I would never have one in my own property, and I would never install one as a landlord because they fail so regularly and it pisses tenants off, not to mention costs a fortune in emergency repairs.
@@spencerwilton5831 Hi Spencer, A bit harsh, combies only exists because stored water is so expensive and unhygienic. I agree combies are not for dwellings of more than one water outlet, but that is 70% + what we live in. The UK installers are the worst in Europe which is very sad. I have been a trainer for over 30 years and Mr Combi Training for over 18, every week we get installers 20+ years in the heating world NEVER fitted a by-pass, frost stat, TRVs as standard, external vessel as required. Systems not balanced or flushed our and NEVER put inhibitor which is why boilers bread down and these emergence engineers keep making a load of money, I used to be one. It's not my fault the system is mess but I will fix it. Your car mechanic WILL change parts BEFORE they break down we should copy. Any moving part at 6 years is due to fail, installers say when it breaks down call me- what? That's the problem we have in 2020 2021 etc. regards george staszak Mr Combi Training, we only train installers to become breakdown engineers who will make a lot of money for many years.
Hi Tomkat,
I had a Stelrad old style Boiler with a Hot Water Tank upstairs. It worked perfectly for 45 years until it started to leak rusty water last winter. I got a Vaillant 830 Combi replacement and i must say what a life changer not having to heat the water tank up to have a bath and also whilst in bed during the winter i can switch on the heating with a remote control box during the night from my bed . I do suspect though that my new Boiler is oversized for a 3 Bedroom House.
Who knows. Interestingly my bills are not any better, especially the Electric which is quite high.
Stevie in Fife.
Worth asking the next boiler servicing (ideally the same firm who installed your one or who installs the same brand) and ask what can be done to make it run more efficiently. I've also heard that only some controllers work with X gas boiler brands, forget smart controls. The bigger issue is that most non supersmart controls are not tested against boilers
I like these video's immensely.
These are PROPER reviews,and the likes of yourself and allen hart give an absolutely no-nonsense verdict on these products.
straight talking yorkshiremen do not mince their words.You will get a brutally honest opinion on stuff,
Derek that is the most informative to the point home gas boiler video I have see thank you, amazing performance.
Baxi 800 Combi all day long, magna clean in the box & 10 year guarantee. Fitted loads and not a problem on any of them. Great reward scheme for installers too.
Getting one fitted (system) shortly myself.
I’m a fan of baxi 600 and 800 easy to fit easy to work on my opinion only
All boilers are extremely good and reliable, we have a big problem with unregistered installers who are used. They rip off customers and we have to fix it. Too many will not pay the correct amount and get the job done correctly.
@@ME-ol9gk My two mates Chris n Stewart do all my old customers we never charge less than £2.2K, we up-sale with boiler controls Danfoss eco TRV's etc plus 10 G;tee
we learnt a long time ago how to make a presentation pack with factory promo bits and charge more than other quotes by quality, People will pay. george staszak
Baxi 800 range gets my vote. Stainless heat exchangers are definitely best.
I have a Baxi 380 and have had nothing but problems with it for years
Forget the budget, its Vaillant boilers in all situations, they are not too expensive, especially when your cheaper boiler goes down. They are the most reliable and easy to work on. A dirty system needs cleaning and a magnatite filter should be fitted so your diverter then won't fail.
It's the Rolls Royce of boilers and I have been fitting them for over 25years, tried others and regretted it. No brainer!
Been quoted for an ideal logic. Priced at £1650 with smart therm and powerflush. Price seems good but is the boiler long lasting? I will always service annually.
Make it the IDEAL VOGUE MAX, get it installed by a MAX approved installer and yes, it'll last longer than its 12 years warranty!
Excellent video Derek, packed with a wide range of information its very difficult for the average consumer (me) to take in. Watched this video a couple of days after my heating guy advised and fitted (replacement) a Worcester Greenstar 30si in our medium size 1930's solid wall double fronted semi with one bathroom. Hopefully a good choice for my circumstances. In the process of trying to work out the best auto setting for the EPH. Also watched a very simple balancing video from "Skill Builder", if needed in the future. I used to think computers (my expertise) were complex but heating a house is up there with them :)
Agree with the emphasis on system quality - hugely overlooked and plays a big part in the reliability of any cheap or expensive boiler. No such thing as a bad boiler 🤓
@ferkemall My mother has had her Thorn boiler since 1980 and it has never let her down. Only 60% efficient though!
I had an Ideal Combi boiler installed early 2019. I think they took the ancient Baxi one I had to an archaeology museum? I have a hand held remote about the size of a small round alarm clock with touch sensitive controls to control the heating. It bypasses all the thermostat and other controls on the wall. I get hot water on demand, so only pay to heat up what I use. It has slashed my utility costs by a third. Absolutely amazing. I had previously gone through two harsh winters with no heating or hot water, so I really appreciated getting the new boiler and then some. Plus it freed up so much more storage room in both my cupboards as I no longer required a cylinder. Two chaps working full time were all done and completed in just six hours. They even declined a cup of tea when I offered and I make good tea. 👍😜🤦♂️👀✌
Worcesters had so many problems in the past, whichever model. I liked Intergas combis: A cast alloy burner/heat exchanger with two copper tubes snaking through it, 1 about 22mm for heating, the other about 15mm for HW (heated directly by the burner). No diverter valve or secondary HE for HW to clog up - the pump just doesn't run in HW mode; no auto air vent to seize up - manual bleed valve instead. The 240v fans on the larger capacity ones had problems, but the 24v ones were fine. 10 year guarantee, too. Dutch firm, Worcester wanted to buy them out.
They only had 1 or 2 models back then - a bewildering choice now
This is one of the best videos I have ever seen
Was he leaning on a hob knob at the beginning. I could hear a spark generator running?
Very helpful video I got stuck my Worcester Bosch boiler was failing badly I've now had it replaced it with a ideal logic very happy with it
I have had my VIESSMANN 200W Weather Compensation Combination Boiler for 13 years, regular service only recently had new water flow switch, spark contacts, flame electrode, burner chamber gasget, & new outside temperature sensor, its going to be upgraded for Internet and new low energy pump, so yes I'm very happy its well made for sure 👍
I think that you were a bit negative about Baxi, was that your opinion or the findings of WHICH, I personally find them to be excellent and have good customer service but good video all the same.
Not mine which, as I said in the video. I personally not fitted one of the new baxi boilers so can’t comment on something I haven’t installed yet
Excellent video - thank you for your time and effort. Will definitely help me make an informed choice when I replace my 40 year old Ideal CF60N!
I've put in a viessmann vitotrol a few years ago and its easily the best combi I've had to date it heats up the house as quick as my kettle boils and 5 year guarantee superb!
Yes Phil .I have fitted loads of them now very very good also quiet and efficient, think u meant vitodens not vitotrol!?
Which one do you have the 100 series?
Sorry yeah vitodens! Mind you I've now fitted the hive system on it because the viessmann thermostat was just a bit to complicated than it really needed to be and I'm very pleased with the whole heating system the viessmann boiler was probably a bit more expensive than the rest but definitely worth the extra!
@@philmoffett366 Yes I know what you mean! I have fitted over 20 viessmann boilers but found customers can’t operate the vitotrol thermostat so stopped using them, even I can’t understand how to operate them! Your boiler may have been a bit more expensive than the others you were quoted on but only the viessmann boiler can give you good economy on the gas savings
Once all the house is heated they drop down to a very quiet tick over and operate on a lower gas rate typically around approximately 20p an hour . of the ones I fitted people noticed a gas consumption drop of about 20 to 40%. The viessmann technology Is more advanced than other brands and they have won multiple awards for it
@@SalimKhan-gk1fh that's interesting to know! I just went for the viessmann because of the little bit of research I did and recommended opinion it did stack up as a good boiler but what has transformed it is I have installed a hive on it and it's so much more accurate with the temperature and more importantly much more useable👍 sometimes modern technology can be a pain at times but in this case its brilliant! At work all day use my phone to switch it on 15 minutes before I get home..........brilliant👍
@@philmoffett366 That’s good to know which model did you fit ? did you fit the 100 series or the 050?
Have you noticed any drop in your gas consumption as most of the ones I fitted people noticed a good drop in gas use
also have you noticed they are a very quiet running boiler?
My ideal Stelrad boiler was installed in 1992. Still going strong, never failed and cost £230. I’ll never change it until it fails. I have cheap rate electricity heating a 300 litre tank and a solid fuel fire for winter which also heats the tank negating the need for the immersion in winter.
My Ideal Stelrad wall mounted boiler has just bitten the dust, I believe it was fitted in the 80s. the heat exchanger had rusted through and it started leaking, so I’m just about to have a new boiler, probably a Baxi
I bet no boilers these days last as long as those old cast iron jobbies.
Ideal is the worst had problems since day one in new property.
Thanks for video
You're unlucky bhaijee as they're the best and the Asian choice. Worcester Bosch use an aluminium heat exchanger which is substandard vs. stainless steel in the Ideal.
Great informative video. Confirmed my understanding about the complete installation needing to be considered and done properly. I'm not a heating engineer, however it surprises me how many have commented and insisted they know the best boiler. Maybe they need to look at the video again but with an open mind.
Pros - great advice on what to consider for consumers and heating engineers.
Cons - the cuts in the video are a bit annoying at first but well worth persevering.
Keep up the good work!
Don’t be surprised by people leaving a comment on which they think is the best best I left a comment at the top of this page just below the video . this is through 15 years experience of fitting a particular brand ( viessmann) From my point of view as an engineer and from the customer’s point of view in terms of satisfaction this brand is number one in Europe & uk its also the most efficient
@@SalimKhan-gk1fh I understand your reply and agree that there are very good reports of satisfied customers and installers with Viessman but you are looking with a very narrow view as a good installer who ensures that you only fit to a good, clean system. A Viessman boiler properly installed may well be the best, or at least one of the best, however the point that Derek was making with the video is that the best boiler fitted by an installer that takes short-cuts is more likely to experience problems than a cheaper boiler installed properly.
The other point is that if a customer expects a particular feature such as instant hot water, they won't be satisfied with a combi boiler with a long pipe run to the taps.
To sum it up, it is important to use a good heating engineer who will discuss and advise on the most suitable boiler TYPE and will then source and properly install an affordable brand.
I am looking at a Viessman or Worcester Bosch System boiler plus new cylinder at the moment but will find an accredited installer with good feedback as I believe that it will give me the best chance of an installation which is trouble free in the future (provided that the 12 monthly services are performed!).
I'm not a gas fitter, but I choose an Intergas ECO RF 36. No plastic parts and leaks, no diverter valve or plate heat exchanger to get clogged up. Two years old and no problems so far.
Vaillant Turbomax, 21 years great service finally replaced last week with a Baxi 830. The Vaillant went through 5 or 6 divertor valves and one fan. I hope the Baxi lasts as long, its much smaller, much quieter and hopefully, more efficient.
I’m surprised you changed that many divertor valves on a tmax..I’ve worked on them for years only replaced a handful
@@kevinwilliams1421 I think the issue was using refurbished valves rather than new original manufactured valves. Around £40.00 if you send in the old valve against £190.00 to buy new, I used to get between 2 to 3 years out of a refurbished valve before the inevitable loss of hot water at the tap, a few times it was a punctured diaphram, others it was the weak plastic lever not engaging the microswitch. An hour or so to change a valve, as long as you didn't snap the plastic retaining clip at one of the inlets.
@@Vincent-dc6ku 99 times out of a hundred with no hot water on a tmax is the plastic wheel in the flow sensor…now I’ve literally changed hundreds of them
Very well fair unbiased report on selecting a boiler manufacturer.
I totally agree with you that choosing the right system is the key to an energy efficient hot water and heating system and it should be a mandatory requirement using a weather compensated heating system in the uk.
Manufacturers need to incorporate a weather compensator compulsory so the boiler is not over cycling and is working at it’s optimum.
Sweeden and other countries have a far better understanding on heating design and usage.
Boiler longevity would be achieved and fuel poverty would decrease.
Well done Derek you are a credit to the heating industry.
Zahur Weather compensation now is mandatory, As part of boiler plus viessmann Have been supplying vitodens boilers with a compensation sensor in the box with the new boiler for over two years now. The gas savings and efficiency have been impressive
Top Tips on the set up of any system! My 25 year old Valiant combi is hanging in there but for how long who knows keeping it alive by descaling heat plate each year and replacing parts as they leak is working for now. A new boiler & installation cost vs energy savings and new boiler in 15 years approx is food for thought & i found your video very informative especially about the heat controls & modulation! Thank you!!!
Good video, as an gas safe registered installer I agreed with most of the points raised.
When installing a system or heat only boiler it’s important to stress to the uninformed consumer that there isn’t a diverter valve to breakdown internally on the boiler with that said would be good to hear opinions on the best type of materials used on heat exchangers these days, my self I am now moving towards stainless steel as it’s seems more durable long term(10 years on) .
100% agree on a clean system being a must, power flushing and inhibitor is essential .
We've just had a Worcester/Bosh fitted with the app to control it from our phones, it's great and does everything very well, thought I was buying a U.K. built boiler but no it's made in Germany. The only problem we have is that it loses pressure once a week and needs topping up, takes about 10 seconds to do that so no big deal, there must be a small leak somewhere? Now the big problem is that the boiler fitters have been informed but getting them back to investigate just isn't happening, bloody typical.
Ive had one for 2 years not had a problem, however, I must say gas bills have gone up substantially, and the gas meter whirs around at triple speed.
Great video Derek, and thank you for all the info you have put here on RUclips, It helped me a lot in preparing for my ACS and getting on the gas safe register. Much appreciated 👍
Back in the 80s had a baxi with a dial for temp 1-6 left it on 1 spring and autumn and left the boiler on
cheap as chips to run toasty warm no room stat
Baxi are hands down the best boiler on the market at the moment. Parts are a reasonable price. And I’ve found customer service to be very good. The 600/800 combis are brilliant.
You can’t range rate Baxi, they’re years behind everyone else. The heat only is universally up popular too
@@heatpump8566 you don’t need to range rate modern boilers much anymore. Unless you are 20kw out, the modulation rate is huge, baxi are 10-1 modulation on the current range. Baxi and Worcester and working together on hydrogen boilers. So I wouldn’t say they are years behind, just no need for over engineering boilers
@@heatpump8566 the heat only isn’t great reliability wise I agree
Has nobody tried Intergas boilers ?
@@kevinschoales844 yeah pretty good boiler. I had a stint of repairing them a few years ago. Plenty of ignition issues
How about the Main eco compact? Exactly the same as Baxi 600/800 but at third the price! The only downside being they only come with a 5 year warranty instead of 7 or 10.
exactly
Such an important video knowing which boiler is compatible for each home. ❤
Not a fan of any new boiler, the on.y thing that ever went wrong with old boilers was the 'thermocouple ' every now and then,now it's a £400 control unit,
Six years ago, we exchanged our good -old free-standing Worcester Boiler, for a Vaillant eco something or other. ''The Rolls Royce'' of boiler's we were told. They extended their normal 2 year Guarantee, to 3 yrs. Despite that, and regular servicing, we have had to call out 'The Man' 5 times, with failed or failing--parts. Roll Royce eh? well the cost of the parts were. Very disppointed.
Had my vaillant ecotec pro for 6 years not one issue yet
If they are not flushed properly on installation it will always keep breaking
Would you agree that more modern the gas boiler (with high efficiency due to complex and fragile electronics) are all engineered to fail in a far shorter time period than those made 15/20 years ago?
Like cars.
Brilliant video everyone should take note of the comments, it's NOT the boiler but the installation that ruins boiler and keeps breaking down and costing money. Love the videos form TomKat, regards george staszak Mr Combi Training
Thanks for watching and your comment cheers 👍🏻
Disagree ... as a repair engineer there are plenty of boilers I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole these days ... ideal and Worcester are on that list as well now
@@russthomas02 great when you can turn down work. As a repair engineer should you look at these boilers as a challenge then and take great satisfaction when you get the boiler running and put a big smile on your customers face.
@@tomkatgastraining I repair them no problem but to install for my customers I steer them away from makes that I have to repair often .... why would I recommend a boiler that’s not reliable IMO
@@russthomas02 they all seam to give massive warranty’s now on boilers some even giving 12 years and more so I don’t get why as engineers we hate boilers. Don’t get me wrong some are better to fit than others and some have a poor build quality but at the end of the day as the video says it’s all about the best boiler for the customer.
The one boiler I refuse to fit but do fix them (often) is Worcester Botch. Customer rings up saying " my Worcester Bosch is leaking", me " what side is it leaking from right or left?" Then I know what bit of cheap rubbish plastic has failed.
I'm in total agreement with you Tony. Worcester BOTCH 😁 Customers think there the best ?🙃😝🥶
Left side - left hand mains block pin hole
Right side - adaptor behind flow switch.
Nearly always. Neither too bad to do
You make a lot of sense, however as the bulk of UK homes are many decades old have original flow design of 82 Deg C, therefore the condensing boiler hardly runs in condensing mode to meet the older design temperatures and house heat losses. Nothing is simple!
great video! i actually got 13 years out of an ideal isar 24 but it was constantly on preheat HW (costly if you live alone), very basic CH modulation with over sensitive HW activation (as 1 drip from a HW tap run the boiler at full).
My new Worcester 30i CH has noticeably better modulation as it turns the burner off before reaching set temp, as not to over shoot set temp. HW is perfect for my mixer shower with 12.5 ltrs per min. The Eco option finally stops preheating the HW in summer that dogged the isar, but only time will tell especially with my gas bill.
Fantastic glad you fixed the problem. I did Park Homes and loads had pre heat ON which on LPG is expensive . regards george staszak
What an excellent video - this guy obviously knows what hes talking about - wish i could use him personally to sort my very old system but living in cornwall doubt thats possible -
Excellent Overview. Thank you. I have had absolute nightmares with plumbers who have done terrible jobs. They're primary concern is to charge as much money as possible and do a rubbish job, with minimum effort. NOT ALL plumbers are like this and there are some Excellent plumbers out there I'm sure. It's got so bad that in the end I have decided to Give-Up and tune into this channel and learn about central heating systems / plumbing. I'll then be able to understand and check the design and their work. Fortunately I have a technical background so it all makes sense. Should I need to do this though? It is what it is / that's life. Thank you again, great information.
Outstanding communication! Pleased to have my combi de-mystified, and to be so much better prepared for choosing replacement. Ten-year old Baxi condenser keeps going but pressure can be erratic, up and down. Would like to learn optimum balance between setting of water temperature, room thermostat and use of the timer because boiler seems happier set to 'always on' but regulated only by the remote room thermostat. This beastly Baxi dislikes being off for several hours, won't let me go away for a weekend!
I have a Viessmann 200w , jig , flue and adey magnaclean , ready to be installed next week after a 2 hour magna cleanse . You are right, The home owner knows his house ,the heating engineer hopefully is more knowledgeable about correct operation and installation and commissioning. Hopefully this boiler will be keeping up and not playing catch up,
with the weather compensation on a North wall.
yes indeed.
I was planning on a baxi 624 pack bought new,but scoured marketplace and got a worcester+flue for the same price.adey filter was courtesy of marketplace too.
not shy about saying this but with gas prices going the way they are i needed a quick fix.the quotes i was getting for a new full system was £1000+ over what i could afford if i bought new on the market.
gumtree and FB markeplace are your friends!...couldn't have done this otherwise. all real deal genuine parts,just leftovers to someon'es DIYjob.
The ideal icos/ISAR boiler was quite reliable if it was installed on a clean system and service properly ,by dismantling. Taking the fan /burner assembly and the sump cover of.,to clean out thoroughly.
I was talked into installing a Remarhra ( a Baxi brand) boiler. The worst decision I ever made. They always came with dirty rusty water inside the water ways! The first I cleaned out and commissioned broke down within 24 hours on the Saturday. The service department eventually showed up on the following Wednesday! The second one came in the same state so I returned it and got a glow-worm instead.
An excellent video, brilliant honest information, and no waffle.thanks so much ,
I grow up with servowarm boilers, the last ten years with a Valliant boiler 👍.
I remember Servowarm very good then disappeared. george
@@mrcombiBedford built like a tank, lasted for years.
@@mrcombiBedford Servowarm were taken over by NPower I think. I WAS a customer, asked them to install a Bosc Worcester combi but they ignored what I wanted and installed a shitty Baxi 105HE - so they lost my custom for good and good riddance to them!
@@CH-vb5kr Hi CH, thanks for the update, that's very bad they ignored your wishes, 105e is a monster with higher running costs. I think that Baxi is one of a few firms that does not allow down-rating the heating to match your rads out put, I don't like that. Our Unit has 12KW of rads why should I put auto 24KW and expect to save more money than I can now. They won't give me a boiler to test against my Vaillant, I wonder why regards george staszak Mr Combi Training
@@CH-vb5kr Servowarm were taken over by Homeserve who then sold the business to Npower.
I have allway use INTER GAS boiler and is one off the best combi boiler neaver had any problems read the reviews on google this boiler is from holland I have already installed 5 boiler in different places
yes I did enjoy the video and it is very informative, I am not impressed with the running costs/maintentance of boilers produced over the last 20 year .. I would have liked to hear you comment on Saunier Duval also as I regularly see Thelia/ Thema being replaced after 25 years only because of their age and the introduction of government schemes. I know they were from a different era and don't have the high tech/complcations of a condensing boiler with extensive electronics but the running costs over the lifetime has been very small by comparison .. would you like to make a short comment? thank you.
CH System design is more important than simply boiler choice. I designed the CH system for my new house in 1982 no room thermostat no isolation valves just danfoss TRV'S and RAV HW conroller with potterton Netaheat 16/22 sealed cabinet boiler with fan assisted flue an spark ignition(no pilot flame) the system ran perfectly efficently for over 35 years and was only changed when i was unable to obtain replacement parts for the boiler . The TVR's remain installed and working. The Potterton 16/22 boiler was the most advanced boiler on the market in 1982 and would still be operating today if i was able to obtain spare parts for it. My New condensing boiler (installed in 2007) produced problems from installation but then the manufacturers service document lists almost 100 fault conditions. The old boilers with cast iron heat exchangers fan assisted flue and simple controls where and still are the most reliable .
An excellent broad view of the issues that should be considered with a gas heating installation. As several have remarked, there is a real question about progress. Reliability and product quality has become questionable, sometimes brought on by poor quality maintenance. Efficiency payback takes so long that a 10 year life expectancy does not equate.
I had a servo warm boiler for twenty years then 19 years till vaillent Thermo compact boiler still running good.
My old Gloworm boiler is at least 30 yrs old and apart from changing thermocouples and cleaning is still like new in 10 years my son is on his 5th combi boiler simple is best
Brilliant video Sir. Very informative. Thank you. Peace be unto you.
I have to correct what you said regarding Viessmann divertor valves, There was an issue with them way back on the WB1A model between 2006/7. (long since sorted out) Since then they have been bulletproof. Also all Viessmann domestic boiler heat exchangers are manufactured from stainless steel.
If you have a dirty heating system a diverter valve will fail no matter how bulletproof you think they are.
Great video to unravel the points to consider when selecting a replacement boiler/ ch system. so much technology about its easy to over specify if you just read the adverts.
great information in this video Derek, I have a Vokera Mynute E16 in our 3 bed house for 16 years. Time to change to Bosch I think?
Really good information. Proves that there is no such thing as a 'best' boiler just like there is no such thing as a best car. It depends what's best for you.
Great video with so much information about things I hadn't taken into consideration. I have an old Worcester HiFlow 35 stand alone boiler and the 1st thing I need to do is install a magnetic filter. I have fitted smart valves on all the radiators which has increased the efficiency of the system. The other question which wasn't covered was what fuel are we going to be using in 10 years time. I live in the West Midlands and Natural gas is being mixed with Hydrogen on a trial at 85-15% ratios. Do you think that we're going to be turning to 100% and are therefore going to need to have new burners fitted like we did when moving from coal gas to natural gas?
All new boilers will have gas valves that can tell how much hydrogen is with the gas. I believe if we keep the hydrogen lower than 20% the gas valves don’t need changing in the older boilers. Thanks for watching cheers 👍🏻
Without any doubt the best boiler is The Archie Kidd Boiler. When I bought my house in 2006 the Kidd boiler hadn't been serviced for 13 years but was still running well. Needless to say I did have it serviced. I even spoke to Mr Adam Kidd on one occasion. With great regret the business no longer exists so I worry slightly about the future of my boiler. It will be a sad day if I have to replace it. Is there anyone out there who knows how to service a Gas Archie Kidd boiler?
The more the efficiency of gas boilers and led lighting increases the more they charge you to supply you energy. Smart meters recoup money buy registering the on off incorrectly on led lighting as a led is only on for half the time you use it hence the flicker on some cameras.
I'd like to see reviews that show what thermostats are opentherm compatible. Few mention it. Like to also see some advise on when to do a powerflush and where should TRVs go. Also some future reviews on water tanks, hybrid gas and heat pumps and what additives are recommended.
"And even Baxi" ? I admit that Baxi aren't perfect, but I have found them to be the best of an otherwise bad lot. As for "Which Report" in 2008 they gave the Baxi Duo-Tec "Boiler of the year" with the Potterton Gold coming in second place. They went on to state the areas the Duo-Tec preformed better than the Gold. This brought a smile to my face! They are the same boiler with even the same part numbers for spares.
You said that cavitation causes air, but this is not the case. Cavitation usually occurs on the suction side of a pump impellor due to the low pressure at that point, and it is this low pressure which causes the water to locally boil. So the cavitation bubbles are actually water vapour, not air. Cavitation reduces pump efficiency and, as each microscopic bubble collapses, it emits sound energy which, over time, can damage pump impellors.
I just had a Baxi regular boiler installed at my parent's house. The main problem is that the ignition is very robust, nay startling. The local Baxi rep took a look at it and it's now somewhat improved, but I'm still not happy with it, and I'm not going to specify Baxi in my own home, despite the existing Baxi old-tech boiler still running after 33 years.
Excellent video Derek, very well presented & with valuable information about boilers. Great video. 👍👍😀
Excellent video with lots of information, even after 2 years.
Very informative video, many thanks.
I visited the Bosch Worcester factory about 8 years ago. It was very impressive particularly the Quality Assurance and testing programmes.
You need to look at the Intergas boilers. Much superior than any you mention. Built like tanks. Well ahead of all else. The only combi that can be open vented as well. It will convert from system/heat only boiler to a combi by pressing buttons. Only _four_ moving parts with no troublesome 3-way diverter valve. They a can be used as a multi-point water heater with the CH system dry - not even fitted with water, they are so well made.
I have no connection with Intergas, just impressive products, and they are priced competitively,
I know all about intergas boilers but they are not in the top 5 best selling boilers in the U.K. so that’s why they are not in the video
@@tomkatgastraining
All due respect, however your title says _WHICH IS THE_ *_BEST_* _GAS BOILER IN 2020._ Not the best _selling._ Installers who fit Intergas boilers tend to stick with them, as they are highly impressive - as once fitted no call backs. I have had the combi fitted on old open vent systems still using the open vented F&E tank, as the rads were old and looked like they would pop if pressurized adding needless extra cost, and hassle, to the customer. They come complete with weather compensation and an excellent control system. Some versions modulate down to 3.6 kW - the boiler most of the time just sits there purring on a low kW rate. Some models use only one plastic pipe for the condensate and pressure relief making installation easier again.
A number of guys mentioned Intergas on these comments. I believe Intergas have sold over 100,000 boilers in the UK and not through any intensive advertising or promotions - mainly by recommendations. They are easily and readily available. Plumb Center were promoting them a few years back.
Vaillant at one time wanted to make under licence the Intergas heat exchanger, Integas refused. Rheem, one of the biggest HVAC/boiler/water companies in the world last year bought out Intergas in Holland.
I always look to Intergas as the first option in boilers, as they are clearly excellent and well priced. Great bang for buck. Recently I had to fit a Keston (Ideal) as they had the long 50mm plastic flue options. In another, fit a Navien (great boilers - Navien are the world largest combi manufacturers) as it is the only boiler that can be fitted _outside._
The *BEST* boilers on the market in the UK are:
♦ Intergas (Dutch);
♦ ATAG (Dutch);
♦ Navien (Sth Korean);
They are in a league of their own, with quality of manufacture apparent. The rest are in the league below at best.
@@johnburns4017 it’s a play on words mate meaning which magazine 😜
@@tomkatgastraining
I have never agreed with that magazine's choices.
can i connect my Boiler manager to it as i have done to my baxi?
Very Infomative video and clear explanantion as to why regular maintenance is a top priority and key to performance and longevity for boilers and components. 😀Right size selection for the boiler is well understood especially with high modulation. You paid great emphasis as to this point and as I am about to buy a new boiler (emergency purchase) I am now reassessing changes to my selection. My only concern is rightsizing for my current house size in the knowledge renovation which will imrove thermal efficiency of the home and add a shower and one bedroom will make choice of boiler size questionable. Based on that do I right size for the additional load now? If I do then I would think there is an option to install a non vented system at a later date for hot water supply. Option to install unvented now is not possible due to space for cylinder. But I would consider that a combi boiler with a percentage of available overcapcity now could be used to service an unvented heat exchanger via diverter valve at a later date in event of introduction of living space and hot watwer load. Thanks again for yiour informative video. maintance maintance
No mention of Intergas boilers combined with Tado smart . Only 4 moving parts no reversing valve to go wrong ! Mine has been in for 7 years working perfectly . Also it's ok the makers give you multiple years warranties but you probably end up paying as much as a new boiler in the end .
Viessmann 200-W is, by far, the best boiler sold in the UK (provided it is compatible with your household piping).
Thank You for your Reply Tomcat Gas Training , I've lived and brought up My family on mostly 'Baxi' back Boilers and other makes and I can assure you that ALL of them are mounted on an OUTSIDE Wall were they get their Air supply and the Exaused goes up the Chimney Look at the Facts How many People have Died in the Twenty Year Period of Baxi Type Boilers and How many in Todays ????
Buderus not a brand in the UK? Had my condenser boiler over 10 years, hassle-free with yearly inspection/maintenance.
I had the misfortune to be advised by my plumber to fit a LPG Baxi Neta Tec combi boiler. It has been unreliable since installing! Now six years on it has been issued with a danger do not use notice because it was exceeding 4000ppm carbon monoxide in the flue test.
It commonly made a loud bang when starting, this was followed by error codes. Eventually in year four it baffled two plumbers as to why it was issuing different error codes. Eventually Baxi sent their main man out, he was baffled but eventually discovered a tiny leak from the heat exchanger which was dripping onto a switch. When he removed the boiler he found it was distorted, presumably due to the banging when starting up. He replaced all the internals.
Now at a mere six years old our gas installer is recommending a new boiler given the history of ours. He is recommending an Ariston combi 30kw.LPG he recommends that over the Worcester Bosch 30i LPG.
What would you advise?
Great video, However Vokera have upped their game have great cutomer services and thay are well made and great value.
So much useful information. Especially for us guys who are new to the game. Found this really interesting. I’ll be watching this again for sure. Thanks Derek 👍🏻
Asian Jon. Training.
Two most reliable boilers ever are, the number one is of course the Potterton Profile, the second most reliable boiler is the ideal classic in my view
I won’t use any of them my gloworm boiler is so reliable it’s still going for more then 25yrs without any breakdown please everyone go for gloworm boiler.
Always been Vaillant or Worcester for me. Very few issues.
Worcester boiler has has two fans and two printed circuits needed in the time I have had it.
This also depends on how old your water cylinder is. A modern one means you might be able to reuse it in a future heat pump system. We know it will be hydrogen boilers in 10yrs. Gas won't save the planet at all just lower your fuel bill.
Another awesome video thanks. Lots of useful information as usual from you given us honest reviews . I agree with you it doesn’t matter what boiler you fit if you don’t set it up right in the beginning it’s never going to last 😂.
I read many new installs are going for bigger than needed combi to get a bigger built-in water tank