Why Vegeta Doesn't Work in Dragon Ball Super
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
- Hey everyone, hope all is well. In this video, we dissect the character of Vegeta from Dragonball Z, and elaborate on why his character falls flat in Dragon Ball Super. We take a main focus on what worked in Z and how it can be replicated in Super.
Please feel free to drop a like and subscribe, and post some comments. Let's get the pot stirring; I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on the character!
Also, feel free to let me know what other characters you'd like to see me breakdown in their respective stories!
Take care, and see you in the next video!
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/ @kallmeknick
Someone didn't read the Granolah arc, does no one actually remember what Vegeta said in Z? He states to paraphrase here "i admit it Kakarot you are the best" that doesn't mean he's gonna stop trying to get stronger or that he cannot learn any more
Someone didn't understand Vegeta's change in Z.
When Vegeta said that it means that he FINALLY saw Goku as an equal.
No longer he held a petty grudge of saying "i will beat you Kakarot"
Now he is fighting for HIS loved ones, HIS family.
Goku is now a friend, not a rival.
What they did in Super is COMPLETELY RETCON THAT PROGRESS.
Vegeta acts exactly the fucking same.
In GT the one thing they got right is Vegeta.
Why is Vegeta so grumpy about fusing whit Goku in the Broly movie? In GT he ASKS GOKU TO FUSE.
Vegeta should have accepted that he and Goku are EQUALS.
Did you even read/watch Z?
@@streptococo4735 my guy are you fkn stupid? Vegeta will always be Gokus rival, it's always been him that pushes Vegeta to get stronger he said that himself and sure they are friends now but your gonna sit there and act like Vegeta regressed and ignore stuff like Vegeta saying basically to Goku black "it's not your body your, you didn't mold it, and you'll never be better than that clown" or TRAINING ON YARDRAT! something Vegeta would have NEVER done before is sheer ignorance, him not wanting to fuse with Goku is just a trope and that's all it is even though in the manga in the black arc they both agree to not do the fusion and when they both get there licks in of Fused Zamasu and it doesn't work they resort to fusion but ya know whatever I don't understand Vegeta apparently or maybe I just don't ride Z like a lunatic
blud doesn't have a clue of what he's yapping about
@@streptococo4735you just proved that you don’t truly understand who Vegeta is. You can be friends with someone and still see each other as rivals. People who don’t train in any form of fighting shouldn’t have an opinion on these characters
Vegeta’s character arc was a revenge story. He was selfish, but he was a product of trauma and his environment. Vegeta went from selfish loner, to reluctant and disgruntled associate, to redeemed ally (post Majin).
Vegeta drove the narrative of DBZ. He was the front man to drive the story in the Namek and the Android Saga, interacting with the likes of Krillin, Gohan and Future Trunks. Goku was injured (sick) or in transit for a large part of both sagas. Vegeta even narrated Super Saiyan, as it was integral to his quest for revenge.
Vegeta I would argue is the single best written character in DBZ. He is fully realized and clearly developed as a character.
Dragon ball fans confuse me and I don’t understand them people hate the fact that veagta did his final atonement attack against topo but they go crazy when gohan went beast in the exact same way, he went super Saiyan two back in the day dragon ball fans live and breath on nostalgia
Thing is fans loved dbz it was infinitely better than Super and after it was finished fans wanted more it took about 15 years after Z finished for fans to get a new series so of course instead of critically thinking about it they just consumed it and that's why you find fans that love dbs and swear by it even though it's not that good
Final atonement is just a move its not surprising to see him use it again and it's not even like people care about that moment. Gohan unlocked beast after being rusty, at the beginning of his fight again gamma 1 he couldnt even transform and out of nowhere he is on par with mui, without mentioning that in the previous arc he was far weaker than base goku. If you rlly think ssj2 is the same then go rewatch the show or stop it, before fighting cell all he was doing was training and when the cell game started he was alrd the strongest. They even copy the design and the whole transformation scene(+the form is ugly asf)..
@@freezasama5802yesss that's true but it's still the only Canon sequel we got now besides the Fan Mangas
Ain't final anointment just a bigger super explosive
@@StevenJones851 that's true I can 100% guarantee if Super came instead of GT when Z ended it would have been trashed into oblivion and would have a very small fanbase and not as big as it is now
I think this is little far fetched. Vegeta is BETTER in Super. He has much deeper character there, seems more genuine and you see the story revolving with not only Goku in the spotlight, but with also Vegeta, side by side. Already in Z, after Namek saga, Vegeta is reduced to the sole purpose of wanting to surpass Goku. Only in Super we see "My Bulma!", moment in which Vegeta surpasses Ssj3 Goku because of love for his wife, getting God form all on his own, making deeper connections with every character than in Z, becoming mentor to younger sayans... Unfortunately, even though I love the show, it is not for the reasons like good plot or great characters. Main story in Dragonball is not saga, main story is how strong will characters get... AND I STILL FUCKING LOVE IT!
"After Namek, Vegeta is reduced to the sole purpose of wanting to surpass Goku" and "Only in Super we see 'My Bulma'"
Ima have to stop you right there. Number one, Vegeta wanted to be the strongest in the universe, hence him toying with Semi-Perfect Cell and allowing him to turn full perfect. He wanted to beat the best, whether it was Goku or not. In that same Cell Saga, we see Vegeta get a rage boost when Cell killed Trunks, he powers up and rushes him with the most power he had that whole fight. Its only in Super where Vegeta's main purpose in life is to revolve around Goku like he's his father
To each their own though, we all enjoy things for different reasons, AND I LOVE IT TOO!
@@Kallmeknick now you just being bias bro, in the moment goku return vegeta thrown all the family he builded in the trash for goku, all vegeta do post namek is trying to surpass goku, he play with cell to prove himself but his objective its goku, when goku dies he simply stop fighting, he nearly cries because would not be able to prove himself against goku bro
"Vegeta is BETTER in Super" 👉🤡
@@uasyagrutch7406 well you could hate it but vegeta definitely is better in both gt and super than he was in z.
I was thinking after this video it's impossible for clowns like you to say such a statement but I'll be damned even when presented with hardcore evidence your still blind
The Vegeta from Z sadly is gone forever. Thats the truth we need to accept.
He no longer markets well enough according to Toei what shame such a great character regressed for marketing purposes
@@freezasama5802 yeah the old Vegeta was such a cool badass character. I just don't get the same feeling when I watch DBS Vegeta.
@@Cuauhtemoc3 yeah now he acts like a baby constantly whining about trying to surpass Goku even though he has long since moved past that phase
@@freezasama5802Vegeta never said he would stop trying to surpass Goku
@@sparta1694 yes he did look at his number one speech and end of Z Vegeta no longer interested in surpassing Goku thats the point that's why he went Majin and then regretted it and aided Goku in becoming Vegito and fighting kid Buu can't you see it?
Vegeta fans when vegeta cares for his family more than commiting genocide.
"😡😡😡😡"
HE HAS BEEN DOING WHAT HE WANTS WHICH IS CARING FOR HIS FAMILY. HE DIDN'T WANNA JOIN THE TOP BECAUSE BULMA WAS PREGNANT AND WHIS HAD DELIVER THE BABY. He's been caring about his family since the buu saga and only fell back because he thought that was his last chance to face goku. Sure Vegeta should've gotten kill frieza. Overall in the Black arc you could say he's was better than goku whenever he wasn't kaioken. Took out toppo the second biggest threat in the tournament. We just forgetting about moro arc.
Toriyama notoriously didn't like Vegeta, that's something we all know. No disrespect to him, but stories with Vegeta in the future may have him pulling out more wins without Toriyama constantly dragging him down. In the Super Broly movie, the writers for the film knew what the audience liked when it came to Vegeta. So that entire first fight with Broly, as soon as Vegeta starts being on the back foot, they have Goku jump in. Perfect. Then in DragonBall Heroes and Xenoverse, whenever they try to do mind control on Vegeta, he always resists the influence and takes the power up. They know what we want.
One of the worst things we do in the DragonBall community is that we can't say a piece of dragonball content isn't good unless Toriyama worked on it. But almost always if that's the case, then 9 times out of 10 Vegeta is gonna get shafted. There's official writers who want Vegeta to have a win and I think we might get that some day.
Toriyama made most of the script for DBS Broly if I recall correct. In fact, I think the DBS Broly script was written by Toriyama, and the director and side writers (plus the animator's) had to cut it down. For example, there was a scene that was going to show Broly and Gogeta fight on the sun.
Vegeta keeping up with Goku is literally one of the best things about Super. I’m not saying it was an amazing show but it was better than GT and Vegeta is one reason for that.
You didn't pay attention in the Buu saga if you say super Vegeta is a better character than GT Vegeta
In GT Vegeta has continued his progression and doesn't *despite how fans try to portray it in GT* constantly obsess over Goku there is a desire to surpass him like it's a challenge but it's no longer his only goal in life and no longer an obsession
In Super he progresses as a family man too but that's about it
In Super he gets more screen time but he also constantly is a punching bag and a joke in the show
Unlike in GT where he does get his ass beat but he is trying his best and is doing it for earth and you know he isn't gonna win but you root for him anyways
In Super they constantly pretend there gonna actually let Vegeta has something and then take it away
Resurrection f he's gonna kill Frieza but nope let's let Goku do it instead
6 v 7 let's let Vegeta shine against the underdogs but only Goku gets to beat the big bad
Goku black he doesn't get a win still
T.O.P he once again you think he's gonna get it but then doesn't *at least in this saga he has some development* but it's about Goku
In the manga the trend continues it's even worse in the moto arc where you give him the tool to win but decide that he can't have the win and take it from him for literally no reason but too extend the plot and also in the manga they try to make his "Ego" an even bigger part of him when Z was him getting his ego checked and realizing that he wasn't above everyone else
But in super they decide to make it an even bigger part of him and it's like he learned nothing
In GT he gets his ass beat but he's doing it for earth and does everything in his power against omega knowing he can't win
Not because he's a ego maniac but because he wants to save his new planet Vegeta *Earth* and keep those he loves safe
@@gabrielchastain6091 GT Vegeta is straight up trash GT as a whole is straight up trash and it's not canon so who cares
@@christopherjackson1898 if anything is Trash it would be Super for ruining all the damn characters and removing all of their character progression
GT actually added real consequences to dragon ball and also payed omage to og dragon ball which you likely never watched as most of you only watched Z and dont understand GT
And funny enough
Akira toriyama himself disagrees with you
If the creator of the show can see something in this show you cannot
Then there's something your clearly not getting
Toriyama who wrote dragon ball
Loved how they did GT
Also it is canon dumbass
It's all canon it's not all in the same timeline but it is also confirmed to exist by the writers of the respective shows
The movies are a seperate timeline as stated by their writer and toriyama *who respected the movies*
GT is a grand side story according to toriyama who only said as such because he didn't want to take their work and take credit *implying it to be a different timeline but not non canon*
And ironically he doesn't take Super too seriously as he only signs off on things or makes an occasional design *much like gt* and calls it a casual continuation
It's Canon as much as you hate that
It's not canon the the main timeline but it is canon to dragon ball
So calling it non canon in an attempt to call it shit isnt working out for ya
^
@@ZekeAndroid49 whatever ya say man
Least GT Vegeta didn't regress
You know, things like this is the reason why i hate dragon ball fans in general, it just left bad taste whenever i try to enjoy z, super, or even gt. Dragon Ball fans are just the worst.
All Dragon Ball Fans can say is "Mid, Trash, Cashgrab."
Heck they will literally bring any super content to just trash talk about it even though it's not even related to it.
If you are a fan of dragon ball and haven't done what you've said then you yourself are wrong about yourself. If you don't add to what you don't like about dragon ball then you've done your part
@@linkmaster253The negative vastly outways the positive and it is for self assured dumb reasons like this video.
The problem is that Akira didnt want dragon ball evolution,be the last thing the franchise produce,and it does not matter what Dbs does,it will never be a worse ending than to have db evolution as the last thing the series does
I mean
At least Evolution is a seperate continuity and doesn't ruin the existing canon and story by inserting itself as the main thing
Vegeta and Guts are to different characters That is a BIG STRETCH 💯
I love vegeta seeing him grow from a villain to a man who sacrifices his life to try and save others he’s come to love I see myself and how Iv grown from some pretty bad mistakes. To complete his arc he needs to be the one who finishes frieza off for good to avenge his family and planet l.
In my opinion super was a mistake. It made Goku an idiot and Vegeta lost his essence. He's not a badass anymore.
You are 100% right brother
It was sadly made for money and didn't care about writing a story it's a real shame because the writing is atrocious and Vegeta pissed me off in Super multiple times ruining characters to shine like preventing Buu from fighting because of his stupid idea and taking Piccolo's place as if Piccolo is an old and useless man it really annoyed me dbs is garbage
@@freezasama5802This is not true in the Mangas case. You can see that that they are trying to make a story. Even going to the extent of making the Super Hero movie a bit better.
Manga Super Goku is not really an idiot though and has been pretty consistent with Z era Goku. Though Z Goku was also an idiot at times too. Hes also had badass moments in the manga too.
@@firionkaiser8291 I was very wrong I was specifically talking about the dbs anime not the manga because I treat the manga as a different entity since it's an actual story with actual development however the anime is different
vegeta was a struggler in the namek saga, and tactful, after that we have scenes of vegeta constantly taking L's and letting the villains win, sure those scenes may be in character but we see a more competent vegeta in the namek saga. infact the namek saga is the only saga where a main character doesnt let a villain get the upperhand (okay that one scene where goku let freeza powerup to a 100% but he still managed to wreck him)
We all know the best Vegeta was GT Vegeta
His design was the worst tho
@@smokeyjoseph1790tbh, besides the SSJ4's, UUB, Oceanus Shenron, and Omega Shenron, GT had some pretty uninteresting Designs. They weren't BAD, but they didn't stick or visually please. Kind of like Lord Slug. He's cool, but his design is kind of, eh.
@@Meelow-jp8lbi agree, i think babys design was pretty cool.
I agree with u 💯% brother, thanks i feel Vegeta should finally get his shine!!! I resonate with him most out of all characters 🫡
I know you're loving DragonBall Kakumei then. No Goku and Vegeta is shining.
Fax
I’d argue whenever Vegeta’s on screen, he eats up any scene he’s in, that includes DBS. Now, I don’t exactly think DBS is perfect, but Vegeta is the reason I kept watching, and I’m glad I kept reading it too, all for him.
I Always wanted to see Vegeta take out a Main Villain character & Not just Goku doing it all the time, I always wanted to watch Goku witness Vegeta taking out a main threat that he himself couldn't beat & then congratulate Vegeta afterwards, but that's just my opinion.
he was perfect against black
Gt vegeta became a man who acquires his own strength to save the world and his family suggesting fusion himself and acquiring ssj4 artificially just for the sake of it.
Super vegeta gets happy finally beating goku even though he never lost a fight to him.
Me personally, I think Super just gets hate for no huge reasons. It still has it's ups and downs, but it doesn't have the luxury of Z, because the people who are working on it are worried about doing something wrong, or at least that's what it feels like. In all honesty, I just love it. And to say that Vegeta using his Final Explosion in Super was trash. Bro say that again I DARE YOU! It was fire, man! It showed that Vegeta keeping his ideals, his pride isn't from his ego anymore, but from his place as a father in a family, it's not desperation that he fights Jiern out of, it's the pride of being a father, the pride of having a family to protect, the pride of having all of that to protect... and that's why he failed. Because he had pride. Pride is always someone's downfall, one way or another. That is the main thing that they did with Vegeta that still feels hollow. His pride. His pride shouldn't be like that. He should be more like in the Buu saga, where his pride was more of a story driven thing instead of a latching character trait. I never watched GT but it seems like that's the thing that GT Vegeta has that Super Vegeta doesn't: Humility. Add some actual character growth with Vegeta and it would be great. And just like you said, don't make him follow Goku around like a kid who lost their parent in a store following the employee around. Points like where Goku was fighting Fused Zamasu on his own could have and SHOULD have been a huge character moment for Vegeta, because Goku is doing it again, fighting someone he couldn't touch, just like Kid Buu. The creators of Dragon Ball Super are basically mining gold but leaving it in the walls out of fear of a cave in. Super really has become the Goku show. And in all honesty... that's alright. It appeals to a younger generation of fans. I feel like diehard Z fans don't realize that the same reason Z was such a gem was because it was one of a kind. Just because it's the same series won't mean it always has the same feel. In all honesty, I feel more like the Dragon Ball Super creators are trying to copy off of Z and add it to their own *cough cough* golden frieza vs super saiyan blue, cell max vs beast Gohan, (android 21 vs Vegito [probably eventually]). But in all honesty, I'm here for the novelty. Yes, Vegeta does feel hollow, because the people who make Super make him the other side of the coin for Goku. And I feel like that's good for a story telling perspective. They don't have to keep the Z era feeling. Also the only reason I wrote this is because you dookied on Vegeta's Final Explosion in the Super Anime. It was fire. Cool look go boom haha.
Honestly any iteration of Vegeta is not meant to carry a long term story as a protagonist unless it's like a movie special or something, only Goku and Gohan are good protagonist for a story arc. Unlike Piccolo, Vegeta narratively is not meant to have friends or be friendly with anyone besides Bulma, Trunks and Bulla so if anything Super does most of what it can by showing Vegeta taking being a father seriously whereas Piccolo it was reasonable to show his progression alongside the Z fighters because he found his first friend in Gohan along with fighting on the same battlefield as the Z-fighters against Nappa and saving Gohan's life in turn of his own in the process, making Piccolo's presence amongst the Z fighters from there after natural at any given time whereas Vegeta narratively would have no motive to interact with anyone beyond fighting besides the Briefs family even with all that has happened in the story so far.
I do agree though that Vegeta is watered down by being too attached to Goku now in Super. What made the duo special in the Buu saga was because it was by circumstances of a strong enemy that they worked together like they did not to prove who was stronger between the two, in the original EOZ and GT timelines Goku and Vegeta went their separate ways to train and went years without contact but in Super their main method of training is from the same source which also bring me to another point.
In my opinion, the duo of Goku and Vegeta not only watered down their own characters, it also extremely ruined the character of Beerus and Whis from what they were in BOGs compared to anything after because now they just serve as a way for the duo to get stronger or as spectators who can tend to trivialize the main story. Of course Vegeta is gonna seem like he 'reverted' back to his old ways when someone who is on par with him is right next to him as his training partner, in Buu saga and the Shadow Dragons saga, Goku and Vegeta teaming up was a dream team but now seems like a prerequisite to deem the opponent a strong foe, the only time it really clicked from a narrative standpoint with them teaming up and training together in Super was in the Goku Black arc and should have been the only time they pleaded for Whis to train them, not randomly on any given day.
Vegeta stopped having wants since he fused with kakarot. Vegito fr took away most of vegetas vegetaness
goku = john cena
vegeta = randy orton
Honestly you have stated a core problem I've had ever since Super came out, you aren't alone I promise, while all my brothers were hyped and praising it, and admittedly it was awesome to see all these characters in action again, but it didn't feel the same, or at least, everyone but Goku felt different, like they had no direction with any other characters for the foundation they laid out in Z, instead chose to try and lifelessly rehash story lines and character arcs, ESPECIALLY for Vegeta, it's like in Super they realized...wait this character already has a full arc and development...but he's so popular....just turn him into a gag 😂
I know it's a meme, but I literally was one of the first out here to say that dragon ball super has become "the Goku show" and it's sad, I cared about most of these characters, and for Gohan to just be used for fan service stupid shit because they can't think of any creative way to bring Gohan back is simply unacceptable to me, I hated that movie, and I hate where dragon balls priority is at
Have a good day everyone 😊
I checked out on Dragonball Z after the Cell saga where everyones characters arca had reached their conclusion.
Besides the Majin Vegeta segment where he had a relapse and was conflicted, and then had his atonement, the series got bland after Cell. I agree.
@@RodneyKing-kz3ymI Dissagree but you acutally have not only an acutal argument but a great argument at that unlike superfanboys
Aye I never realized how cool of an idea that would be for Vegeta to return to Namek by himself to try and right his wrongs and receive forgiveness from the Namekians but that's a great scenario that u just gave that could definitely work.
They did it in Super but it was in the Moro arc 6 arcs later took them forever and even when they did the story quickly became a cell saga knock off
0:16 Dawg, you're not cooking with this. The only one shown that I can kinda agree with is Bakugou, cause GUTS? HIEI?? SASUKE??? All of them are extremely different in roles, lore, and thematics.
My argument is this.
In Z the dynamic between Goku and Vegeta were about 2 MEN competing to see who was more skilled and stronger.
In Super, Vegeta is Goku's babysitter.
Vegeta is there to make sure Goku doesn't shit his pants.
The dynamic should have evolved from being rivals to being friends, imagine how interesting it would have been to see interactions of Goku and Vegeta as TRUE equal friends.
But no, Super completely missunderstood the characters, Goku is a moronic baby and Vegeta a literal second place babysitter.
Super makea both characters look worse.
And even for the people saying "Super Vegeta is better" Super Vegeta doesn't hold a candle to Z Vegeta in terms of how he is portrayed.
Just because he is a nicer dude doesn't mean he is well portrayed.
Super Vegeta is just a bland version of Z Vegeta, and im not saying Vegeta should be evil again, im saying Vegeta should hold onto his edge.
In Super EVERYTHING is bland and sanitized, the most edgy arc is Goku Black, an absolute shit arc.
An edgy character like Vegeta doesn't work whitout any edge on the show.
Umm did you forget the that's my wife scene? Cabba? His humble growth. The fact he's obviously the next GoD? Crazy talk
I think the problem with making *any* sort of continuity series after DBZ is that.. you’d just have to focus on a next generation of characters. Goku’s story was pretty much finished by the end of Z… which is why GT also, while pretty decent in my opinion, just wasn’t received as well.
The only route you can take as a writer, is giving Goku and Vegeta more power-ups, transformations, etc… which is exactly what GT and Super did.
But we’d already seen these evolutions back in Z.. and back in Z, they still felt fresh. So a new series of Dragon Ball after Z just called for a new cast, like the heirs to Goku, Vegeta and the other Z fighters. We had the perfect opportunity here to revolve the story around the next gen of Z fighters: Goten, Trunks, Pan… and I’m not saying to just off Piccolo, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, etc.. They could still be around, but just as something like mentors or guiders of wisdom for our new generation of heroes protecting the Earth. For one, just start off the next series with an aged Goku who’s kind of like the next “Master Roshi,” and maybe Vegeta and Piccolo have those roles also.. Gohan I think could still be young enough to fight alongside the new heroes.
But like… you get what I’m saying. We focused on Goku and his story in both Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. The time to focus on the next gen. of Z fighters has been a missed opportunity. I mean, this is why we constantly hear people in the fandom complaining how Goten and Trunks seem to never grow up… at least until the most recent manga chapters we’ve seen, that is.
How would yall improve Vegeta in dragon ball super?
I hate Vegeta in Super. He seems like a completely different character from the rest of the franchise.
If I were to change Vegeta, he wouldn't act like a clown for Beerus, he would not act like a simp for Bulma and he would be a realistic father to BOTH his children. He would spend more time training Trunks and have Trunks have a bigger role in the story, remain stoic as he always is (only acting silly occasionally, not every 5 seconds), dressing more like an earthling, and have Bulma support him with his training. Also, he could spend more time training the other Saiyan's, along side Trunks.
mustache
Vegeta is great in super
@@WillOfMyD"character development" db fans dont like these words
Vegeta is better in super
Dragon Ball: Goku Shippuden, I summarized dbs .
good vid ❤
Vegeta being the strongest along goku is the best thing and not relying on just goku is also the best thing.
His character evolution is far better than in fucking GT where he became the cuckest cuck. Unlike Z, vegeta gets respect in super.
I LOVE Z and even grew up with it (saw it more than 8 times and recently did) but lets be honest, its all nostalgia when it comes to hate DBS. The form designs being relied in AURA design fits more to the og plot of "ki" than flashy hair designs and in super forms have more of a different evolution ( blue fitting with kaioken, god being decently used in manga and looking fine in anime, blue being calm and representing ki control, ui being something else than a power up).
Super follows better Z vegeta's evolution than we expect. In Z, he is used as a punching bag (doing no effect againts buu, literally being raw dogged by kid buu, getting fucked by frieza and cell and even wasting everyones time in each saga whenever it comes to denial or pride. Vegeta literally took alot of time to fuse, to convince earthlings to do the spirit bomb, let cell get his perfect form and or made gohan lose an arm againts perfecter-perfect cell [Yamcha reference in db abridged]).
The development of Vegeta is one of many reasons I don't see Super as canon and I see GT as canon
When your (debatable) number 2 character has better development in the series not made by the og author, that says something
Then again, the edited kazenban ending of the manga set the stage for Super's regression (it ends with him saying how he's gonna surpass kakarot one day) so maybe it was always Tori's MO to regress Vegeta to always being obsessed with beating Kakarot
If that is the case tho, then I'm just gonna say that this is a dumba** decision
Super is just a way to redo the highlights of Z with none of the buildup
I always say vegeta in super shouldve never had the Goal of surpassing kakarot after The buu saga
They made so many roads for vegeta to take, be a teacher for u6 sayains , be the G. O. D candidate. have his goal in the moro arc be not to best kakarot but to save all those souls from moro and not even to kill moro. Bcz it's a no Brainer he should kill him but don't make it his goal and that's exactly what he did and for granolah arc him and granala would work so perfect.if toyotarou didn't fumble
Those are just examples it's like what you said his character wasn't connected to goku and that's how it should've been. Like many said goku shouldn't have been in granolah at least in the start
Alot of us could write dbs way better than toyotarou and toei
There's a fan manga called Kakumei and they immediately removed Goku from the story and made Vegeta go and train universe 6 saiyans and meet their king it's amazing stuff I don't understand why Super couldn't do the Sam e
@@freezasama5802highkey overrated
@@alchemist262 disagree it what Super should have been because it fixes everything Super failed in
@@freezasama5802 hell naw i understand super is rough but that fan manga is corny
@@alchemist262 it's not have you actually read it or are you just trashing it based on the art design? It's not corny dragon ball af was corny yet no on complained and now Toyotaro is in charge of dbs, Kakumei is a great manga that fixes the problems that dbs had and you can't deny that
Y'all hate on dbs but then y'all still want dbs season 2 make your mind up, Dbs still has its great moments and yes I've read and watched z. Dbs shows how Vegeta is changing like in the battle of gods he's still kinda of a anti-hero in dbsF Vegeta is still kinda of a rival and through out super you can still see Vegeta changing
the GOAT
I liked your take and I agree with it. Super and the characters seem like caricatures of their characters in certain parts of Z. It was planned for fan service and nostalgia bait to cover up a weak story with little to no growth and development. It did have some great moments though but it was... bad. It to me is popular because of the popularity of DragonBall, recency bias, and anime being more accepted into the mainstream. I prefer GT, which has its own and some similar problems but at the very least kept with the characters and lore for a more cohesive story.
Dragon Ball Super sadly ruined many characters just for money, character of Goku and Vegeta suffered the most sadly from it. Goku was an moron, but he was mature enough to know stuff, in battle he would not let enemy power up unless he was SURE he can win, against Frieza? He knew he will win, he was confident and wanted to teach Frieza an lesson, not to mention Super Saiyan rage was somewhat controlling Goku as he even told Gohan to "Go before i lose any control i have left", Cell? He knew Gohan can win, but also needed push, so he gave Cell all the confidence he needs to play with Gohan and learn to regret it once Ssj2 came out. Super Goku is an moron who will forget most important plan of entire strategy, who lacks any fucking common sense and worst of all? Will let all villains live if he could! Moro arc pissed me off the most in that aspect, him giving Moron chance? Yes makes sense, he did so for Vegeta and Frieza, that is not out of his character, however doing it TWICE? hell nah, Z Goku never gave second chances, when Frieza fired at him he got blasted, when Gohan was toying with Cell he told him to kill him, even against Buu he did not let him live again, he went right for the kill.
But Vegeta? Overall not a bad character sure, but he is version of Vegeta stuck between Cell and Buu Saga, like no joke watching him in super makes me feel they are showing us how Vegeta changed through those 8 years after Cell death, that is how his character feels. His story arcs are amazing, him saving the Namekians to make up for his past sins, him trying to reach to Gronolah seeing himself in him, the Ultra Ego form, an form perfect for Vegeta due to who he is- its all amazing, but his character is not, it feels like it reduced.
Thats why what would make Super perfect series would be taking Gt Goku and Vegeta personality and slapping them on Super versions, hate Gt all you want, but their characters were PEAK Goku knew to show mercy but also knew when to end it all, throw away chance he gave you? You get Dragon Fist up your ass. He was smart, not moron who just wanted to use more power till people he long overcame had to remind him, BRO FORGOT ALL HIS TEACHINGS AS MARTIAL ARTIST AND HAD TO BE REMINDED! That is not Son Goku, that is Retardku. And Vegeta? Him no longer being Goku's bitch in Gt, he is a Proud Saiyan who calls Earth his home, does he wanna fight Goku? Sure does! Who would not want to fight strongest guy around? He still wanna be the strongest? Sure do! As Saiyan it is in his blood! BUT HE DOES NOT WANNA REACH ABOVE GOKU! He wants to overcome himself, to become stronger than he was yesterday, thats what made him fun character! The way he does not act like some little tsundere who has crush on Goku (yes, Super Vegeta acts like that sometimes-) but would legit smile and laugh with him like good old pal he fought years with, Goku gets Super Saiyan 4? Super Vegeta would cry in the corner talking to himself how he will beat Goku and get even better form, Gt Vegeta? Smiles and wanna throw hands with Goku even he will lose for sure, he is here for good time.
Oh but Vegeta had to get help from Bulma to go Super Saiyan 4- AND GOKU DIDN'T? I AM SORRY DID YOU NOT WATCH OLD KAI AND KIBITOKAI HELPING HIM GET HIS TAIL OUT? Or maybe you forgot Pan had to talk Goku into getting his control back XD If anything Vegeta was more of a chad with his shit, Bulma offers him help? Ohhh but Vegeta would never ask for help from Bulma, not like she made Gravity Chamber for him to train better or armor for him to use in combat, nah Super fans think Vegeta should everyday go into space to find planet with more gravity to train! NAH if you are unable to turn Great Ape, logic speaks you look for other means to do it, he didn't even ask for help, Bulma just offered it and he taken it, and then went Great Ape, he didn't need anyone trying to wake him up, he snapped back into it himself, with makes sense as he controlled that form before without problem.
I Super makes the same mistakes as GT....... Goku has too much screen time. Allow others to be NEEDED. Allow their desires to push the storyline
I disagree entirely. Vegeta in super is just as good as Z Vegeta because they are the same person! If someone makes a bad writing decision about Goku it's the writers fault right? I think the same is true when talking about Vegeta.
The biggest issue is vegeta problem of obsession over goku despite the fact he had let that obsession go and even treated goku like a friend in end of Z and GT
But Super tries to do it all over again where he is constantly a snarky dick to goku still and acts like he learned nothing
Also you are correct he is constantly getting shafted in Super
He should have had that kill on frieza him not having that was because the writers wanted goku to have it despite that being bland and boring
Vegetas progression in being more humble and less egotistical is removed and even doubled down on as Super progresses even making his fucking ego his strongest form in the manga
Like why!?!! Did they even watch Z or did they watch dbz abridged
There are alot of problems with dragon ball as a series
Like any character except for sayains getting sidelined except for on rare occasions piccolos
When they could have done something smart or clever to have the humans keep up
But the biggest error is how Super treats Vegeta and Goku
I love dragon Ball z and dragon Ball all dragon Ball stories because of the storytelling because of the impact it had on my life. When people ask me why I watched dragon Ball z when I was younger I tell them hey look at my body I have a body somewhere in between a mix of a gymnastics and a bodybuilder and I attribute that all too the impact dragon Ball z had on me when I was younger.
Sasuke isnt a replica of Vegeta lol
Exactly Sasuke is a replica of the darkness dragon guy from Yu Yu Hakusho
Nah I love dbz cause it’s a fighting fest
I’m just a greatful guy
Dbs is so sad why is trunks looking up to some fictional super hero instead of his father. Vegeta should tell his son about his past
Majin Vegeta is the best
Idk maybe someone should give him a job application in super
Yapping
This is why we all watched tfs
They did everything you asked for
This video argument doesnt work because too many people like DBS Vegeta. You'll just create an endless back and forth argument in the comment section.
Maybe you don't like Dragon Ball Super in general. But thats a different issue. Else, lots of DBS fans prefer DBS Vegeta over DBS Goku.
That's not the argument brother we are talking about how Z Vegeta was changed in super from a hero back into a selfish antihero his character was awful in Super he regressed 8 years of development to go back to android saga Vegeta heck he wears that same stupid armour that was supposed to be a phase in his development this is why we are annoyed the argument isn't is dbs Vegeta better than dbs Goku because he is it's why Vegeta is awful in Super compared to Z
@@freezasama5802Stop being pathetic. Vegeta literally shows his respect for Goku in DBS multiple times but never throws away his pride. Vegeta's main character trait is his pride you can never take that from him no matter what. He has developed. The creator of this video made a headcanon of what HE wants in DBS even though it is clearly unnecessary and stupid. He sacrifices himself for his Son, the universe and continues to put up his rivalry with Goku because if he doesn't he puts his family in danger. Ultra ego shows this in his fight with Granola. He will NEVER surpass Goku, that is his tragedy. He pushes himself forward to protect his family but embrace his saiyanhood. Vegeta is shown to be complex within the narrative of Super and shows that his Saiyan blood still lusts for a fight like it should and always will. It is just a sad case of people failing to understand that Vegeta isn't a hero or a villain. He is simply a man with transgressions, desires and necessities he pushes in front of him.
@@pric3lessl0s3r5 you don't get it Z Vegeta had pride yes but he would put it aside for the sake of the universe or saving everyone it's important to have it for Vegeta but it's also important to keep it in check the explosion scene in Top is nothing special in the least it's just recreating what Vegeta did in the Buu arc but worse because he doesn't even die he survives and then humialtes himself trying to fight Jiren and up to that point Vegeta wasn't complex his goal was to surpass Goku even though he was finished with that goal back in the Buu arc yet Super wanted to give Vegeta something to do so they regressed him, Vegeta in Super isn't complex he's a regressed character that only gets to continue his arc in the Moro arc 6 arcs after the Buu arc it's downright ridiculous how far Vegeta got disrespected
@@freezasama5802 No it isn't. Literally after the events of Buu Vegeta makes it clear he wants to continue surpassing Goku. It is out of character for him not to consistently keep training like he does in DBS. d
DBS doesn't regress him at all. He doesn't create a past mistake and forced to come to terms with it, instead he makes sure people understand why he continues to fight. He is complex and that is because of his development from Z to now. He still very much cares for his family but his Saiyan instincts rush for a highervsjd more potent level.
@@pric3lessl0s3r5 yes he does hes done with trying to surpass Goku look at end of Z Vegeta he no longer cares about that his arc is completed however dbs Vegeta likes redoing everything he did prior and its boring
I don’t agree
I hate DBS fans.
db super is pretty much for kids PG13
Pretty sure both DBZ and DBS are both TV PG. Only OG DB gets a TV14 rating for it's more crude humor
vegeta in z way better super he just bland sucks and now hes over the top in super
Vegeta completed his character arc
Dragonball z in one of those anime you never think "I wish this happened" or "I wish it was like this" the only other anime with this quality I found is berserk
Dragonball Super should never be created.. Ultra instinct is super cool, but except that is all damn trash
Full on agree i couldn't get into it they doing to much
the manga is superior, just a bad adaptation to animation
@@mindofvirtuoso3358 the manga fucking sucks too
Speak for yourself
Super is great, its just you grandpa who cant understand that
Vegeta had a perfect story in Z he started off as a villain then anti hero in Namek saga then anti-hero/hero in android saga and finally a hero in the Buu arc, his deaths were also transformations of his character, after he died on Namek he was no longer as cold hearted as he was on Namek and after his Buu saga death he finally became a hero that had purified his sins through death, that's why I loved Vegeta soo much he was a great mirror to Goku and we cared about him heck if it wasn't for Vegeta most of dbz would have been over because Vegeta influenced the story that much. Toriyama had written originally for Vegeta to die on Namek and not be brought back this is why his arc is very strong in the Namek saga, yet due to fan backlash Toriyama changed Vegeta to make him part of the main cast and it was the best decision he ever did. Super massacred Vegeta everything Vegeta went through 8 years of development in the story were all wiped out and he wanted to surpass Kakarot and he's number one, one of my favourite Vegeta scenes was in end of Z where he meets Goku and he has a chill conversation with him and then he is surprised about Uub and wants to fight him to see his power he no longer cared about Goku or how strong he is, he doesn't even ask him, Super made Vegeta irrelevant and an actually obstacle in Super, he almost let's Beerus destroy everyone, he prevents Buu from participating in the universe 6 tournament, he takes Piccolo's place for no reason just because he's selfish, refused to fuse with Goku again, ignores the team up of universe 7 Vegeta is awful in Super and him standing up and saying "surpass the realm of the gods" pissed me off because it was just a rip off of when SSJ3 Goku was fighting Buu and Vegeta has his number 1 speech. All in all great video and I hope people open their eyes to how badly Vegeta got shafted in Super from a hero back into an anti-hero.
Originally Vegeta was supposed to die in the Saiyan Saga or Frieza Saga
@@bailujen8052 that is correct Happy Toriyama brought him back though
@@freezasama5802 for some reason I went 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Super doesn't really work period, GT was better than that plastic lookin garbage
Someone with a functioning brain. Awesome!
GT its pure trash bro, super is 100x better
@@WdsonH super is heartless, it only exists to sell you crap 😂
pure corporate trash
@@kaioken654 yeah bro heartless, the same series who stop the world its heartless and trash, you are just a random bro
@@WdsonH Someone with no brain.