“Heated bed”, “purge tower”…. Seriously, that’s like patenting “a phone having a display” or “a car having wheels”. Some patents should really not exist… It seems absolutely ridiculous that such patents were granted, it’s absurd.
Another very agreeable point! I personally do not see Stratasys winning the lawsuit. I hope this lawsuit influences Bambu Lab to become more open-source. The 3d community is based on open-source technology from printer builds to slicers to stl libraries. There are few original ideas. The thought of bleeding the consumer off of open-source items ranks besides trademarking "You're Fired!"
This is a perfect example of US Patent office being more than broken. All of Stratasys’ patents should be put under the microscope and voided if found to have been granted incorrectly. The rest of the printer companies should join Bambu in their defense to fight the patents.
A patent beeing granted does not mean it's legally valid. In court, you can easily defend againt a claim and invalidate a patent by proving that the claimed invention was published publically in any form before, since a patent requires novelty. Someone makes a youtube video comntaining purge towers before the patent was filed - invalid. Prusa has a printer containing heat beds before the patent was filed - invalid. All their patents are bogus.
@@keithhaynes5216 Thanks for watching and contributing. My concern here is that before they can prove this in court that an injunction does not get filed baring Bambu Lab from selling in the United States until this matter is resolved.
@@storageaddict I had designed something in 2008 and paid a patent lawyer to place a patent on my design , only to get no responses for 6 months and have my design used by another major company. Only after was I informed that I should have certified mailed my design to myself with time stamp as proof that it was my design…. I tell you something putting trust in some people is literally the hardest thing to do .
Prusa would never join the fight because Prusa themselves got affected by BL sales. Like Stratasys, Prusa was selling expensive printers without any major upgrade, and when they tried to make changes look at what happened to XL and MK4. Also, BL tried to patent some stupid things so I don't know how to feel about it because they tried to do exactly the same. Don't do to others what you don't wanna others to do to you so......
Please do your research before posting. Stratasys has been suing 3D manufactures for a few decades now. This isn’t suddenly new. They first sued makerbot, which they eventually ended up owning, and formlabs which they ended up licensing to them. They’ve continued to sue other manufacturers under NDA’s without public knowledge. The reason they’re suing bambu is because they’re stock is failing and the patent troll is a greedy old man who doesn’t care about the advancement of technology, but more about his pockets being lined with money. He purchased all of his patents a VERY long time ago. He doesn’t care about the community as shown with what happened to makerbot and why formlabs is so expensive to cover licensing cost. His machines are in the hundreds of thousands when now you can buy a bambu x1c to do the very same thing for a few thousand with much better technology and speed. I hope they block it and gets dismissed for trying to stop innovation.
Not sure why you said to do my research I wasn't commenting on previous lawsuits or saying they never sued anyone before. However aside from that I agree with what everything you wrote and I am glad you mentioned in here their past legal situations as it gives further context to who they are and how they operate. I took hope they block it in the courts. Thank you for sharing and updating me on the information about their previous lawsuits.
I agree they have been suing different manufactures for years, for all sorts of reasons. The suit against Bambu should not be shocking, nor should their reasoning. Plus they picked a great location to file the suit. This is all a money game. Stratasys wants to get paid, Bambu wants to get paid, and now Texas is going to get paid.
If I remember correctly, they bought makerbot because they couldn’t win the lawsuit. I saw the documentary. It’s going to be difficult for them to try and sue a Chinese company this time as china doesn’t play that monopoly game. He was able to get away with Formlabs because they use lasers in their printers, most SLA printers now use LCD, or mono LCD to print which is not a patent he owns and I think it’s open source.
A patent beeing granted does not mean it's legally valid. In court, you can easily defend againt a claim and invalidate a patent by proving that the claimed invention was published publically in any form before, since a patent requires novelty. Someone makes a youtube video comntaining purge towers before the patent was filed - invalid. Prusa has a printer containing heat beds before the patent was filed - invalid. All their patents are bogus.
The term "Prior Art" is identical to "open source". "Prior Art" is the term used by the USPTO. The most effective way to combat Stratasys ifs through the Patent Trial & Appeal Board (PTAB). This internal administrative court has an 84% kill rate for invalidating patents. The Federal Article 3 Courts, Federal District Courts and the Federal Court of Appeals, have historically bowed out after PTAB litigation has commenced.
I had a 3d printer with a heated bed that i put a flexible pei sheet on in uni in 2014. And they weren't new. And their 2003 patent for fdm printing is based on their 1989 one which was about to expire (which lead to the 3d printer revolution when stratysys couldn't extort everyone anymore). they are the original villian in 3d printing..
Prior art isn't necessarily open source, it could essentially be but it could also be another patent that is still current. But ya that's just a technicality
@@willofthemaker - As an example an expired, abandoned patent or copyright falls into the public domain. AKA open source. We are talking the terminology of a government agency (Prior Art) or that of the common English language.
@@jeromefeig4209 right, just wanted to add to it. It's basically anything the has ever existed previously. Whether it has a patent (current or expired) or no patenta at all. Granted we are at the point where there has been so much that to get patenta at this point is generally a very specific change to a feature. When people say this patent is for purge towers and therefore all purge towers could be under attack, maybe... Or it should be. Specific way of purging. If it is so general, this is when they become non relevant and I think the USPTO should nullify it for being too broad
Stratasys has already been the villian for decades. They are the reason we didn't have heated chamber printers in the enthusiast space until a couple years ago when the 20 year patent of theirs expired. They also don't care about hobbyists. We absolutely are unimportant to them. They're good selling what they sell at the prices they sell them, as long as businesses keep buying from them they're happy. If a bunch of people who can't afford their machines are upset at them, they're not losing any sleep. This is just them trying to strong arm potential competition, and maybe go after more companies if they get their way. If they were to acquire BL they'd just shut down consumer operations of BL. The user experience of their next printers might get an upgrade as a result, but that'd be the extent of it. I guess it's a good thing BL spent a bunch on in house lawyers instead of customer support agents. They might have a deep enough bench to challenge those patents as long as the judge isn't going to just steamroll this one.
Very interesting, and totally agree. Love these comments and I did not know that was the reason we did not have heated chambers until a couple of years ago. Thanks for sharing and watching.
We now know what the market is capable of producing (Bambu Labs), so Stratasys may win the day, but they will never be a household name like Canon, HP, Brother, and Epson. Their market is primarily fortune 500 companies with manufacturing capabilities and companies that provide 3D printing services. Eventually their patents will expire and the market will produce high-quality, reliable, easy-to-use, and affordable machines for the home market without expensive "service plans". This is their blind spot. There is no plan for the home market other than "sue the little guy" or "buy the competition". Just for conversation sake, my first Stratasys machine had a heated nozzle for model material, a heated nozzle for support material, a means for switching the heads, a heated build chamber where the heated air flodded over the printing area, a bed levelling sensor, and it used a slicing software to generate GCODE for the printer that was sent via an ethernet connection. The year was 1999. Utility patents last 20 years. Sounds like there is a lot of technology up for grabs right now.
Patents can be extended indefinitely...If a company keeps the patent in use...Which CLEARLY if you read the court case Stratasys has always done. Why is it you have no issue with Bambu's CEO saying "We use our patents as weapons in the industry"...Hmmmm?
They go hand in hand. I started moving onto meshmixer myself, but modeling is definitely an entire new level for me. I am always in awe of those who can 3D model with platforms like Blender etc
If it comes to that I totally agree. If this is their way of trying to gobble up consumer and small business marketshare I think they will be in for a surprise. My concern is that its a tactic for acquisition which I don't think will be a good thing. Anyway thanks for sharing and watching
You don’t have to boycott them. We can’t afford their products in the first place. But just remember they own thingivrse when they acquired maker it. They could just shut down or not let us use it and then we lost a massive haul of stl files. I personally don’t like Bambu printers and let’s not forget Bambu Lab tried to patent corona designs not so long ago. So they to can be fu*kers
This sounds like when Henry Ford tried to patent an entire car. Fortunately, the courts 100+ years ago told Ford to go pound salt. Ford didn't invent the car, just pioneered the assembly line and mass produce vehicles to make them more cost effective.
The beauty of affordable 3d printers is that things can be replaced easily whether parts or the entire thing. There are to many parts prone to failure when it does and most will just spend a few bucks for a new one. Affordability is what makes 3d printers thrive just like ink printers.
I envision a future where this company's lawsuit will have the Streisand effect. Hopefully stratasys goes out of business. I am no fan of communist China by any means, nor am I defending their actions. I own an X1. But petty is petty. Heated build volume? Gimmie a break. What Bambu lab infringed was this company's pride. And what printer has straytasys come out with? Exactly, $30k-$50k printers don't sell.
Wow, you said it! And 100% same page. I don't wish anyone to go out of business but I hope the pressure makes them rethink their actions and perhaps they will drop the suit if they see that it can negatively impact their consumer market push via Ultimaker/MakerBot products. Anyway thank you so much for sharing and watching.
@@CaptainCreativity I hope the get out of business because is Izrael company HEre in USA the fired muslim people hard workers so sad and to much hate in this people ..i hope future is in Bambu Lab .
Bambu been filing patents using open source work of others. This probably real reason for lawsuits. Creality, prusa, elegoo, anycubic hasn't been sued. this is just me theorizing.
As far as i know, they have. There was a video the other day that dived into it and the top line says something like "Bambu and other Chinese sellers of 3d printers)
@@Caldoric you probably should look up the definition of a patent troll, since pattern trolls do not manufacture anything they have patents on they only sue. They have been making 3D printing industrial grade 3D printers since the '90s.
man have you read into stratysys and their history. They were the reason that 3dprinting randomly took off in 2009 when stratysys's original patent's started expiring meaning people could build them without getting sued. And stratysys's lawsuit is with open source ideas (most of them). If they can do this with no backlash then every company will start doing it.
Sell a printer without a heated bed, another company sells the heated bed to "ugrade" your printer. Change the way the bed heats, etc, and all this is moot.
They have done this more than a few times. Diy 3d printer tech started in the late 80's but was kept under lock and key tell one of the general patents they had expired opening the doors for the Orginal i3 bed slinger design.
I’ve been watching a ton of RUclips videos lately so I can learn more before I buy my first printer. This is my first video I’ve seen on your chanel and you’ve really done an amazing job with this production. Man you kept me on my toes the whole time. I’m really about to get the P1S and I think I’ll still get it. Thank you, +1 sub
I think you should buy one now before there is an injunction placed on them for selling to the United States. I think an injunction can happen much faster and if an agreement is not made I would not be surprised if this is the first thing that happens. Also keep in mind if they make a settlement we might end up paying for it in increased pricing. So if you were thinking of getting one, yeah I would buy it. Thanks for watching
Here is the rub, Bambu lab is a Chinese owned company, which means the Chinese government practically owns a portion of the company. Bambu lab isn’t going anywhere, but they may not be sold in the US, or if they are they will be higher cost. This would be a different situation is Bambu lab were based anywhere else but China, but let’s be honest here if someone really thinks they are going to acquire a Chinese company and the Chinese government is just going to let it happen is sorely mistaken. I actually can see this backfire spectacularly and Bambu winds up being the one that buys out Stratasys. This has got to be the dumbest thing I ever seen. Never mind the fact that, like them or hate them, Bambu forced advancement in 3D printing tech which to my mind is the greatest achievement Bambu has had to date.
The hype was just too strong at the time for their x1, everyone jumped on the bandwagon because it was finally not a diy machine. Then they came out with bed slingers, not as much interest and had a recall. Then lowered prices on them. Yeah, sorry CCP backed machine is no go for me. I'd rather go prusa just for their open source firmware. Problem is I can't afford an mk4, instead I got an mk3s. I mean if bambulab built on open source firmware, and then patented those ideas. They can go after anyone as well. Let's not give the CCP to keys to our lives.
@@oneanother1 yeah but the problem is, this has already happened. The stop and think about where the vast majority of products are produced. As far as Bambu producing a bed slinger, it actually was a smart move for them to put that product on the market because the core xy machines are too expensive for the average beginner. Yeah the recall hurt them, but Bambu isn’t the only 3D printer company that has had products that have had issues, and they won’t be the last. Finally on the prusa front, they make a fine machine that reliable and durable. But they are incredibly expensive. The mk3s is probably double what it realistically should cost, and it’s slow out of the box. Like it or not speed and accuracy is in demand by the consumer now in fdm. And for the most part prusa has resisted print speed increase. Sure you can tinker with the printer and put different firmware on it and speed it up, then you have to tune it and build new profiles. The Mk4 has a lot of potential, but again it’s expensive, and they still haven’t opened up the full firmware on it. I do like that it has tool changing heads. Now if they could incorporate AMS systems for one or all of the heads that might push me to earth the cost because that would really open up the multi color printing capabilities of the machine. Bambu pushed the printing industry to innovate more. You wouldn’t have the k1 series, the Jupiter 4, or the kobra 3 (to name a few) if Bambu hadn’t pushed them to do it, at least not yet. And while I know there are a lot of people that jump out and say “well what about voron?” Yeah a typical beginner isn’t going to build a voron or rat rig. And on that subject I personally prefer the rat rig over the voron because it’s mostly a complete kit when you order it. I have to ask what in gods green earth are you printing that your so scared Bambu is going to find out about? Yeah I can see some companies printing parts or prototypes that they don’t want out there but the average person not so much. Never mind the fact that you likely already had apps and programs that track and send your data to China or offer the information for sale to the highest bidder which is also China usually. And finally I have to ask what hype the Bambu x and p series printers didn’t live up to. The speed? They all lost the maximum speed which is kinda a lie, the accuracy of printed parts? The longevity of the machines? My very first x1c is still running, and I’ve only had to replace the hot end twice and a sensor once in its life. It had thousands of hours on it, never mind the various other Bambu printers I run. In fact I’ve had less problems with those printers in their life spans then any other printer I’ve ever owned, including the rat rigs I run which are also very good machines. I got rid of my last prusa printer last summer. Why? It was too slow……. It was a good printer, just much slower then everything else. Could I have installed klipper, yeah but I didn’t want to. I have criticism for every printer I own and have ever used. But the fact is the Bambu printers, in my personal experience, are some of the best off the shelf printers available today. Even the k1, which is essentially a clone of the Bambu, isn’t as good as the Bambu. I tried. While Bambu was the company that took the printing world by storm and forced innovation everyone else is catching up to offer nearly as good a product for less, and larger build volumes too. If they don’t release something substantial in both size, quality and speed soon they will be a footnote while the rest over take them. Rumor is they will release their second gen core xy this fall but it’s my understanding it’s going to disappoint in both features and build volume. But only time will tell for sure.
@@shawnhicks619 its the principle, invasion of privacy, and even if your data is sold to the highest bigger China is known for oppression, and I cannot support a product with it potentially having the CCP have full access to that information. Its not just for 3d printers, basically any device or app that can be exploited by an oppressive regime. Bambulab sells just a corexy machine, nothing special. There bed slingers aren't anything special either. Its just fanboys being fanboys, before bambulab came along the prusa fanboys were singing its praises for how reliable it is. The mk4 doesn't have crash protection, which was a fantastic feature, noe the mk4 is dumbed down to being an expensive bed slinger. I support open source firmware, which the k1 has. I have a k1 as well, nothing special. If 3d printing is your hobby, you probably have all the skills and knowledge to make it as reliable as anything out there. So I don't Gert these arguments to why this printer is better, maybe for noobs and fasnboys. I need open source firmware, because I need to make changes for when I tinker on the machine. I print with different filament sizes and material, so its necessary to be able to dial it in at a firmware lvl. Bambulab is no go for me.
Purge Tower is an easy work around and already available in the Bambu slicer. It is instead another object/s being printed. So not a purge tower. Laurie. NZ. 😊
You can purge as infill to the object you’re printing as well. Might be terrible idea cos infill colours might be visible if the walls are too thin or when the material is a bit translucent.
Only in America…. I don’t know how many % of Bambu sales are in us, but I doubt it is the biggest piece of the pie. Easiest way for Bambu is to stop us distribution and have us customers import from abroad. I think what got stratasys raising their voice is the availability in retail stores (micro center). Or Bambu can just buy Stratasys and put their (ever smaller) business to rest..
As someone who has held patents and then had to enforce them this is much more complicated than this video presents. For example, heated beds. It is probably not the actual heated bed but the design of the components and process used to ensure a consistent temperature and even heating across the bed. It could be the actual design of the bed, which materials to use and the composition of the layers etc. If you really want to understand this you need to download a copy of the patent and read it then look at the court filings.
I did read the court filings, and I encourage you to do so as well. This is not a case where it was some very detailed process used to ensure a consistent temperature and the are getting into the weeds on that type of a very specific uniquely developed IP, it's way more generic than that: "1. A build apparatus for printing a 3D object of thermoplastics employing additive manufacturing methods, the apparatus comprising: a build platform with a temperature control unit configured to control heating of the build platform; a thermally conductive plate disposed adjacent to the build platform; and a polymer coating attached to a surface of the thermally conductive plate which is capable of (i) facilitating adhesion to the 3D object during printing and (ii) permitting removal of the 3D object once the 3D object has been formed and cooled without chemically or mechanically removing the polymer coating from 3D object and without damaging the polymer coating, the thermally conductive plate, or the 3D object, wherein the polymer coating is not a polymer tape." That boils down to using a heated build platform on a build plate with a polymer coating that isn't polymer tape. That is just plain greed.
@@hotfix7387 Cool. Thank you for research. Never watched your channel before so I wasn't sure how deep you go into the subject matter. I recently bought a P1S/AMS so of course this caught my eye.
@@amputeemarksman You lost me when it comes to watching my channel versus reading the court filings. Did you confuse me with the video owner we are both responding to?
If I remember correctly, Stratasys' finacial's have been having a rough time. This may be a way to try to inject get some quick cash through settlements. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense. I don't see any Chinese companies paying them one thin Yuan. It's not like China respects patents and intellectual property rights.
yeah but they couldn't import them into the us which is a big market and possibly others. A bad case would be china keep innovating with faster prosumer affordable printers and we get stuck with an ultimaker knockoff. Slow unreliable and painful to fix.
Thanks for watching and sharing, my biggest concern is that if a deal is not made (and I dont think Bambu should settle) that Stratasys will move forward with an injunction in the meantime.
If there is really prior art out there for the heated bed and purge tower, then assuming Bambu Labs has competent attorneys, the patents will ultimately be held invalid. However, in many instances, the patent won't be on the broad technology like "heated bed" or "purge tower," it will be on some refined aspect of the technology. For example, maybe the prior art heats the bed throughout the whole print, but the patent may cover something like heading the bed prior to the first layer and then turning the heat off after the third layer in order to prevent the foundation layers from sagging. (Probably a bad example, but it illustrates the point.) The patent may then be different from the prior art even though both the prior art and the patent cover aspects of the heated bed. The legal nuances of patents tend to be complicated so don't be too quick to judge that something was already known simply because both relate to a similar technical aspect. The USPTO is pretty good about knowing what is out there and denying patents on things that are very known. Competent attorneys are good about digging up things the USPTO missed and getting patents held invalid. Some district court judges are pretty good with patent law, some not so much. But the appeals court for patents specializes in patent law so is very good. The biggest issue is whether Bambu Labs can bear the cost of the litigation.
If I make a fire and warm stuff on it is fine, but if I make a fire, place a pollished non abreasive stone on top, and lend a shit on it, is considered a heatbed; if change colour and make a purge block, that allows me to change colour in the first place since intuitivly the printerhead cannot go under the level of the intended print since will clash with it, is pattented, absurd, since this is the emerging logical straightforward solution. We live in the era of IOT devices, i have a watch to control a 3D printer, now this means my 3d printer is connected to the internet, Stratasys go suck an onion, really, what abismal Orwellian bs is this. Patents are a plague when they are not controlled debated and canceled, since they are non applicable anylonger. Stratasys doesn't own the internet. I womder whom aproved this ridiculous patents.😂
Case law for prior art is well set and would hold. Also the fact they are chasing bamboo, who is a new company, when there was prior clear violations by other long existing company’s (prusa and the like) and they chose not to sue them long before now sets another president that they where h willing to enforce the existing patients. Therefor this cas can be thrown. It’s legal posturing at best
You make a lot of great points. My biggest fear right now is that they're going to do an injunction which is going to bar them from selling the printers until things get settled. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Thanks so much for sharing and for watching.
That lawsuit isn’t going anywhere the people that came up with 3D printing open sourced the technology from the beginning, other major companies have already tried suing and failed. The consumer market 3D printing was open source since the beginning, and the commercial 3D printer market companies have already tried suing, the commercial companies lost.
I hope your right, but what about the concern of an injunction that can happen more immediately until the dust settles, this could bar them from selling to the United States which will have them hurting financially until the injunction is lifted. I hope it does not come to this but at the same time I do not see them settling. Anyway thanks for much for sharing and for watching
@@CaptainCreativity you are right I thought about that after posting they can prevent them from selling here in the US. I think we need to get together as a community, because to be honest this is a war against artist using these tools. Bambu labs can sign a deal with them and still make money, the only ones screwed here are us who use the technology.
The heated bed was issues in 2019, but do you know when it was filed??? It may have been filed many years ago- it can take a long time for patents to get issued. Also, the purge tower was issued in 2003. So they definitely had these patents way before 3d printing was popular. I believe Stratasys will win this thing- also, it wont hurt them at all because their market is much different than the maker market.
They don't have the money to keep this up in court Bambu should draw it out until there to broke to survive as a company. They didn't go after anyone else cause they can't afford it. Worst case scenario Bambu had to pay 5.00 per machine license but I don't even think that's gonna fly
They do indeed. So unless they have permission or are licensing they can also end up on Stratasys radar. Right now Anycubic has not been named and I think it's just Bambu Labs. Thanks for sharing and watching. More happier videos to come, thanks for watching
Has anyone tried telling Stratasys that a) it's not 1990 anymore, and b) no longer are printers the sole purview of large rich entities such as NASA or JPL or CalTech? If their business model depends on selling small numbers of mediocre machines at very high prices, in an era of market competition, perhaps they should rethink their market offerings.
Crowd source prior art to break / help invalidate the patents? That doesn't only help Bambu which I don't necessarily care for but the whole community.
Nah, it won’t end BL. Someone that owns a copyright or patent, they have to go out of their way to protect it. No matter how ridiculous the accusations maybe. That is why I believe they’re doing it. However, what they fail to realize is 3D printing companies have copied off eachother so much, it’s hard to tell who came up with first. That being said, Stratasys has already failed to protect their IP a long time ago if they ever truly owned the rights to the technology. Which I seriously doubt they owned the rights to a heating bed, purge tower, etc. Companies like this should have an equal reaction. Sue them for defamation. Stratasys is clearly picking a card out of a hat and making false claims. Sue them for making false claims and send that company to the graveyard pile. Nobody wants 3D printing services to be “get a quote”.
If you think any of what you says matters just thinks about how Masimo forced Apple to stop selling Apple Watches that measured blood oxygen. Just because consumers want their favorite companies to be able to break the law doesn’t make it legal.
Just remove the purge tower from Bambu Studio and allow plugins. The end user just downloads the purge tower plugin from a 3rd party developer. Simple.
Even though they have a patent, patents are only good for a max of 15 years......usually less. When the patent expired, this is when the consumer 3d printing market really kicked off.......I may be wrong here, if so, Im welcome to be corrected. Long live open source!!!!!
yeah that was stratasys's original patent from 1989 expired in 2009 which allowed 3d printing to take off. Before that they basically prevented any affordable competition. Since then it seems like they use the open source community as their R&D department. They build out the ecosystem and ideas then stratasys patent's parts or buys companies that had (ultimaker).
Because WWF (wrestling and Vince McMahon) weren't DEI and WOKE enough for the World Wildlife Foundation. That's why they were allowed to be sued and forced to change name.
thank you for the clear information. the only thing you said I disagree with is your advice to go get these printers NOW as IF bambu labs disapears or is taken over all being proprietory as in their hot ends and other hardwear we would have very limited lifetime printers with no access to spares..
All good points. The main purpose of the statement was pricing and possible injunction. That will you can get A1 Mini for $200 and A1 for $350 is the main idea as it's quite possible that situations involving payment of fees or settlements can have a trickle-down effect in increasing pricing. Secondly there is a short-term concern that an injunction can be filed which would bar the sales of these printers in the United States until the trial comes to a conclusion or the injunction is lifted. Usually unintellectual property cases one of the first things the company will try to do is file an injunction for future sales while the case is being heard. An injunction can happen very quickly and the judge can grant it just as easily. So those are my two biggest concerns. In any case thank you so much for the feedback and for sharing and definitely thank you for watching
30 years ago, a company called General Hydroponics had all these patents on a type of hydroponics unit (the Ein Gedi system) that had a reservoir with a pump in it that sprayed the roots hanging down into the reservoir, and it just recirculated. I had multiple books from 20 years before that showing that exact technique. But GH somehow got through the patent process without showing this abundance of 'prior art' which would, of course, have invalidated their patent application. So, yeah, the US Patent office is completely broken, and has been for a long, long time.
Awesome example and completely agree that the Patent office needs reform or just IP law in general. Anyway thank you for sharing and thanks for watching.
So 1st thing. As I understand if. They only have a USA patent. Even if they win it would only be a problem for USA. 2nd, you know what they say. If you have a good enough lawyer you can pretty much find a way to get past a patent. It really is true. I don't thing we should be too worried. And if will be in the courts for a long time if it goes forward
@@cpace123 Yes your correct as far as I know it effects the US for now. However Stratasys can file an injunction preventing sales to stop immediately until the case is resolved. If that happens it moves up the timeline even faster of cutting off the US supply. Your absolutely correct that with good IP lawyers they can make changes to avoid future infringement however Stratasys will still want damages to date. However there is also the danger and prescedent that it sets that if they do win that prior art from the open source community is fair game for companies to patent which is plain wrong. Then of course if there are damages or settlement of fees that it can impact pricing of their printers. Last and worst case scenario would be they scare them into acquisition and shelve or Jack up the pricing. Anyway there are definitely problems both short and long term. In any case thank you so much for the feedback and for watching. Thank you
I agree it won't end it, but it can certainly impact it's future. Between licensing fees and Stratysys getting to control patents that were originated from the open source Rep Rap community it sets a real dangerous precedent that can severely impact price and ultimately accessibility to current and future users.
It's also irritating because many of their patents are more like 'ideas' than patentable solutions. If they win this, then there's strong incentive for anyone outside of countries that don't really care about US patents (e.g. China) to simply ignore the US market, on whole. I'd avoid Statasys in every way going forward. You cannot patent heated beds, build plates with surfaces that assist with adhesion, or depositing layers of melted thermoplastic to build an object (FDM)? Stratasys has overstepped. They need to stop trolling and INNOVATE in their own way. This is likely going to pressure open source projects and companies to patent their 'ideas' just to protect them from this crap. Stratasys is dead to me. Hopefully they suffer disproportionately from their arrogance.
It is never going to hold up in court. You cannot patent things that would be obvious to someone experienced in the field. The heated bed and purge towers are obvious answers to the problems they solve.
I think that's the problem with new technologies, the patent office it's not hard to make something new sound groundbreaking unless you're part of the community and know you could buy a flexible pei sheet and printer with a heated bed from the early 2010's. etc and that their 2004 patent is a rewrite of their 1989 patent because it was expiring.
Isn't Cura from Ultimaker? As far as I know it is, and if it's any example of what Stratasys puts out, they can go under along with it. Absolute dumpster fire of a slicer; any surprise given where it came from.
I for one think its GREAT NEWS!!!! I hate Bambulab with every fiber of my being. I was brainwashed by all the fake hype, paid reviews, and from people who get free stuff from Bambu for "positive" posts. I bought 2 of their printers and they have been GARBAGE, Pure TRASH. machines. I have replaced tons of parts, have had to fight just to get decent prints and their customer support is the worst I have ever seen in any business. I hope Statasys BREAKS THEM. Puts them out of business. 3D printing was around long before Bambu and will be around long after...We dont need this crap company
Well Stratasys is an American company. And I try to buy American when it’s cost effective however I would never have been able to get into this hobby without companies like Bambu Labs and Creality that have made it affordable.
Very true however I think they are an American/Israeli company. They were founded I believe in Minnesota but the company is incorporated in Israel and has headquarters in both Eden Prairie, Minnesota and Rehovot, Israel. Anyway thanks for sharing and for watching.
If you look at the patents themselves, you will see that they are all expired and now in the public domain because they are now more than 14 years old and by law are now in the public domain and are for the most part is not legally enforceable. Patents are only good for 14 years to prevent stagnation in creativity.
they've got over 3 decades of patent lawsuits. One of them isexpiring in december the rest are around for another half decade at the least. Hopefully their not valid because many of the idea's were clearly not novel at least at the time and for many a year or several years earlier.
Bambulabs are also trying to play the patent troll game, and in both the pro and consumer space. At least Stratasys were happy to stick to their own lane all these years. 3d printing will be better off without Bambu, so I say all power to Stratasys on this one. Better the devil you know.
I for one will never buy any product that Stratasys makes or any on their subsidiaries that they own. This is obviously a move by them to acquire bambu labs. I could see that they approached them to acquire the company and they said no so now they are pressuring them legally to get them to sell. I will now be researching Stratasys and see what companies they own and boycott all of those products. If nobody buys their product they make no money and will go belly up. The consumer has the power in this not the company!!
All those companies do unethical things. The important thing is to grow 3D printing with innovation. Competition is vital. I could never do what I do with Strata system. I’m an old. disable guy on limited income. My CR10 spent more time being down. I create my own designs and want to be a valuable member of the society. This is my only options. If I were to buy a machine like Strata system have and be forced into their eco system….well that wouldn’t work. Students can create and push us so much forward….they are killing all that.
Your right. Companies do unethical things. Remember that time Bambu Lab tried to patent the voron printers? They even submitted documents with the voron logo and name on them and claimed them as theirs.
There is no such thing as a world wide patent so it looks like just the US will be affected given they are US patent numbers. I wonder how this will affect the global market, we should be encouraging innovation not stopping it. I dont think it would stop the idea of self builds with open source software/hardware.
Yup right now it should only be the US however I heard there is something in the works also in the UK. Either way totally agree with everything you said. It's always sad when innovation is stifled like this. Thank you so much for sharing and watching
Bamboo Labs is a Chinese company, so they most likely will not let a company like Stratysis push them around. It will mean BBL products are harder to get and more expensive for US consumers. I already boycot Makerbot products. Too expensive for what you get. I agree get your BBL stuff now. I love my X1 and would love another one. I have a Prusa too, and its a great machine. The BBL beats it hands down in every way.
I think I know why they are going after Bambu Labs. Very strategic actually For the same reason I won't buy one, If they win this one, Unlikely IMO, but still a possibility. they would get their hands on Bambu's base, they would become Pantone, also, they could easily have all the printers Bambu sold shut down, or useable with a stiff subscription
Seriously where are all the bambulab haters. It's like everyone loves the CCP spy machine. Are bambulab bots that good to win over in the comments. Yeha, I really want to see whats in their source code during the trial. If bwmblulqb were open source then I would be weary.
Unless you’re referring a product. So you’ve can then say ‘the x1c is one of the Bambu lab’s products’ But most will miss of the ‘ coz they don’t speak propa!
I'm trying to make a 7 feet tall freddy fazbear and if I must abuse my printer to achieve it then so be it, but not at the expense of expensive 3d printers.
Well for one the people who buy their printers don't give two s*** about bambu lab being sued it's not even the same realm of business for them. And how is this any different than paying commercial rates for a 3D print that has all the same type of technology built into it that a million others have. This is just typical business it happens every day. Most likely the worst it'll happen is they'll have to pay a fine and then they'll have to give Stratus their due
I thought 3dprinting is more or less open source. I can make my own printer with heated bed and so on. Talk about bs stratos is doing. Always some that sues onther.sad furure
The reason for that was because anybody could claim to have the idea first. But just having an idea doesn't get you anywhere, and never did. You have to implement that idea in the real world. You can't just say "oh I have this great idea about running shoes that can make ham sandwiches", and then if someone makes those shoes, you try to sue them because you had the idea in your head, but yet never produced anything. The system now is generally based on first to patent. However, that will not protect you if you've stolen not just someone's idea but an in-use design that they've already had. Basically if I make and sell a widget for years but I never patented it and then you come along and make the same product and patent it, you can sue me for infringement. However, once it goes to court I'd be able to materially prove that I actually invented it and had it in use first. Subsequently, your patent would likely be voided.
First, it would be nice if you could link the exact document/article about the Lawsuit, I disapprove of breaking anyone's patent, but you mix apples and pitches, showing that you do not understand copyright and licensing at all, and anything that I hear from you is advocating for cheap low cost 3D printers, no mether then what
A couple of things, prior art does not apply globally. It is completely legal to patent prior tech. Prior art applies to those that used the tech before it was patented but if you use the tech after it was patented then prior art doesn’t apply and it’s infringement. As to the lawsuit, touching on the issues you mentioned, it’s not simply suing because you have a heated bed, it’s how that bed heats up. If it happens the exact way the original company heats theirs, it’s infringement. Same with purge towers. I find your stance on this issue fascinating. It seems you’re ok with someone stealing and profiting off of the theft because it benefits all of us in the 3d printing community. What if this was your patent being stolen? Would you still hold the same position? Could you imagine paying millions of dollars to perfect a product, you price your product to get your money back for all you invested and then someone comes along and steals your patent, requiring them not to have to spend much money and then they sell their product for pennies on the dollar, setting themselves up to look like the hero’s that figured out how to do it for less? Would you let it go or would you be offended and want to be compensated for what’s yours? Why be mad at the owner instead of the alleged thief? The thief is the one that sold the dream. Someone or everyone will always get hurt when dishonesty and deception is at play.
Considering the history of the company, it is fair to call stratasys a patent troll. The reprap movement only took off due to the expiration of their relatively uncommercialized patent on fdm. They have done this successfully with makerbot, ultimaker, and another company that starts with A from like 2013 I can't recall. They are trying to enforce a patent on polymer coated heated beds of two components one of which that can be easily removed without damaging the bed. Which you could argue is using a glustick, painters tape, or hairspray.
@@kingdomtouchesbyajayrichrn6077 that they have effectively used a system to stop and devour compeitiors to the detriment of the space? Yes. Have you worked with their machines? Have you had to deal with their support? I will admit my biases, I have had very little positive experiences with their name brand factory models, as well as makerbot following their capture. For what bias are you feeding?
@@darbodrake89 I agree, ultimaker and makerbot used to be good printers now they're just extortionate and honestly fairly bad printers (not even taking into account the £10,000 price). And stratasys didn't invent anything, Arevo inc made the build plate patent, stratasys acquired them in march 2024 (likely for the dubious patent) which makes them a patent troll. They dont invent anything they find a way to extract money from people and if people stop buying their terrible printers then they go back to patent trolling.
This is the 'heated build plate' patent number (US9592660B2) search it on google patents. The 'claims' are basically around using a flexible non-stick removable plate. That's basically it. It talks about the current methods being using kapton tape which is true i remember but you could buy flexible removable pei build plates for 3d printers well before 2014. That wasn't an invention it was trying to steal someone else. Saying that i find your stance on this issue also facinating. It seems ok when someone steals someone elses idea and patent's it. But what about if that someone else was you, or the creator didn't patent it because they wanted people to be able to buy £10 instead of £200 build plate. Someone or everyone will always get hurt when dishonestly is at play and i hope in this case it's stratasys.
I'm not sure they tried to patent anything directly. But I do believe they patent certain things that rely on open source mechanisms. This is completely legal by the way. Basically you never claiming any rights to what was open source just on your addition to the part of it that works with the open source item.
@@chipwallaceartthey tried to patent designs from voron. But someone at Bambu forgot to remove the voron logo and names from the documents and they got found out
Stratasys deserves to win this case. They are a US company and Bambu Lab is a cheating, stealing Chinese company. I say Stratasys for the WIN! Hobbyists should not have 3D printers. Leave the 3D printing to the pros! Hobbyists are hurting US based 3D printer US because they keep supporting Chinese companies instead of US companies! Finally they have said enough is enough. Better buy up all those Bambu Lab printers while you can. I'm talking to you, 3D print farmers!
I hear what you're saying but one thing I would definitely point out is that some of this has nothing to do with China. Some of the big issues that people are having with this lawsuit is the fact that many of these patents were developed by people in the United States as well as all over the world who contributed these techniques and code to the rep rap community. So I think there is definitely a lot of people taking issue with the fact that they are suing a company whether it's Chinese or not on patented infringement which was taken from the open source community and is considered prior art. These people who contributed these technologies and code were never paid and they gave this technology to the world for free not for other companies to develop patents on them. So that's my biggest issue with the lawsuit.
Stratasys is a trash company who over charges for mediocre equipment and feels threatened and decided to lash out like they always do. Typical garbage strategy from a garbage company.
People, stop getting involved in this. You think any of the Bambu Lab or Strata listens to you? We are just the crumbs in this chaos. I see Patent lawsuits the way Italian Mafia operates. Pay up for your success, no highway option there. Patents should be tossed out and let people evolve and come up with their ideas, no matter if someone else came out first with the same idea. Just stop
Just sounds like SCO vs Linux.. Start making wild claims and try to get people to license the imaginary infringement. SCO was on the way out and it was their last gasp to survive while not moving forward with their product.
I won't purchase any of their products if they pull this nonsense. This is just lawfare and attorneys filing charges because they see an angle. I hope Bambu wins and sues for legal expenses.
I hope bambulab loses, show their source code, make sure they aren't stealing others ideas. Also, their machines are closed sourced so who knows what sort of spyware is in there. You have to remember they have full access to your machine, and China spies on everyone. Don't let them spy on you.
@@ricstandenno shit Sherlock. I still won't buy one, primarily though because they make overpriced trash compared to any number of other offerings. Have a swell night.
“Heated bed”, “purge tower”…. Seriously, that’s like patenting “a phone having a display” or “a car having wheels”. Some patents should really not exist… It seems absolutely ridiculous that such patents were granted, it’s absurd.
Another very agreeable point! I personally do not see Stratasys winning the lawsuit. I hope this lawsuit influences Bambu Lab to become more open-source. The 3d community is based on open-source technology from printer builds to slicers to stl libraries. There are few original ideas. The thought of bleeding the consumer off of open-source items ranks besides trademarking "You're Fired!"
So every 3d printer manufacturer is contravention these patents? It only takes a 10% change to invalidate a patent
car with wheels' I think that's one of theirs too, patented in 2019..
I have a patent "matter from this universe built into some kind of thing" 😂
@@ykgreene
This is a perfect example of US Patent office being more than broken. All of Stratasys’ patents should be put under the microscope and voided if found to have been granted incorrectly.
The rest of the printer companies should join Bambu in their defense to fight the patents.
The USPTO will allow a patent just because you apply if it isn't on the books, but all you have to do is prove the technology already existed.
A patent beeing granted does not mean it's legally valid. In court, you can easily defend againt a claim and invalidate a patent by proving that the claimed invention was published publically in any form before, since a patent requires novelty. Someone makes a youtube video comntaining purge towers before the patent was filed - invalid.
Prusa has a printer containing heat beds before the patent was filed - invalid. All their patents are bogus.
@@keithhaynes5216 Thanks for watching and contributing. My concern here is that before they can prove this in court that an injunction does not get filed baring Bambu Lab from selling in the United States until this matter is resolved.
@@storageaddict I had designed something in 2008 and paid a patent lawyer to place a patent on my design , only to get no responses for 6 months and have my design used by another major company. Only after was I informed that I should have certified mailed my design to myself with time stamp as proof that it was my design…. I tell you something putting trust in some people is literally the hardest thing to do .
Prusa would never join the fight because Prusa themselves got affected by BL sales.
Like Stratasys, Prusa was selling expensive printers without any major upgrade, and when they tried to make changes look at what happened to XL and MK4.
Also, BL tried to patent some stupid things so I don't know how to feel about it because they tried to do exactly the same.
Don't do to others what you don't wanna others to do to you so......
Please do your research before posting. Stratasys has been suing 3D manufactures for a few decades now. This isn’t suddenly new. They first sued makerbot, which they eventually ended up owning, and formlabs which they ended up licensing to them. They’ve continued to sue other manufacturers under NDA’s without public knowledge. The reason they’re suing bambu is because they’re stock is failing and the patent troll is a greedy old man who doesn’t care about the advancement of technology, but more about his pockets being lined with money. He purchased all of his patents a VERY long time ago. He doesn’t care about the community as shown with what happened to makerbot and why formlabs is so expensive to cover licensing cost. His machines are in the hundreds of thousands when now you can buy a bambu x1c to do the very same thing for a few thousand with much better technology and speed. I hope they block it and gets dismissed for trying to stop innovation.
Not sure why you said to do my research I wasn't commenting on previous lawsuits or saying they never sued anyone before. However aside from that I agree with what everything you wrote and I am glad you mentioned in here their past legal situations as it gives further context to who they are and how they operate. I took hope they block it in the courts. Thank you for sharing and updating me on the information about their previous lawsuits.
I agree they have been suing different manufactures for years, for all sorts of reasons. The suit against Bambu should not be shocking, nor should their reasoning. Plus they picked a great location to file the suit. This is all a money game. Stratasys wants to get paid, Bambu wants to get paid, and now Texas is going to get paid.
If I remember correctly, they bought makerbot because they couldn’t win the lawsuit. I saw the documentary. It’s going to be difficult for them to try and sue a Chinese company this time as china doesn’t play that monopoly game. He was able to get away with Formlabs because they use lasers in their printers, most SLA printers now use LCD, or mono LCD to print which is not a patent he owns and I think it’s open source.
A patent beeing granted does not mean it's legally valid. In court, you can easily defend againt a claim and invalidate a patent by proving that the claimed invention was published publically in any form before, since a patent requires novelty. Someone makes a youtube video comntaining purge towers before the patent was filed - invalid.
Prusa has a printer containing heat beds before the patent was filed - invalid. All their patents are bogus.
Corporate greed
Down with Stratasys.
That's the direction they are heading if this is the path they continue to choose.
The term "Prior Art" is identical to "open source". "Prior Art" is the term used by the USPTO. The most effective way to combat Stratasys ifs through the Patent Trial & Appeal Board (PTAB). This internal administrative court has an 84% kill rate for invalidating patents. The Federal Article 3 Courts, Federal District Courts and the Federal Court of Appeals, have historically bowed out after PTAB litigation has commenced.
I had a 3d printer with a heated bed that i put a flexible pei sheet on in uni in 2014. And they weren't new. And their 2003 patent for fdm printing is based on their 1989 one which was about to expire (which lead to the 3d printer revolution when stratysys couldn't extort everyone anymore). they are the original villian in 3d printing..
Prior art isn't necessarily open source, it could essentially be but it could also be another patent that is still current. But ya that's just a technicality
@@willofthemaker - As an example an expired, abandoned patent or copyright falls into the public domain. AKA open source. We are talking the terminology of a government agency (Prior Art) or that of the common English language.
@@jeromefeig4209 right, just wanted to add to it. It's basically anything the has ever existed previously. Whether it has a patent (current or expired) or no patenta at all.
Granted we are at the point where there has been so much that to get patenta at this point is generally a very specific change to a feature. When people say this patent is for purge towers and therefore all purge towers could be under attack, maybe... Or it should be. Specific way of purging. If it is so general, this is when they become non relevant and I think the USPTO should nullify it for being too broad
Stratasys has already been the villian for decades. They are the reason we didn't have heated chamber printers in the enthusiast space until a couple years ago when the 20 year patent of theirs expired.
They also don't care about hobbyists. We absolutely are unimportant to them. They're good selling what they sell at the prices they sell them, as long as businesses keep buying from them they're happy. If a bunch of people who can't afford their machines are upset at them, they're not losing any sleep.
This is just them trying to strong arm potential competition, and maybe go after more companies if they get their way. If they were to acquire BL they'd just shut down consumer operations of BL. The user experience of their next printers might get an upgrade as a result, but that'd be the extent of it.
I guess it's a good thing BL spent a bunch on in house lawyers instead of customer support agents. They might have a deep enough bench to challenge those patents as long as the judge isn't going to just steamroll this one.
Very interesting, and totally agree. Love these comments and I did not know that was the reason we did not have heated chambers until a couple of years ago. Thanks for sharing and watching.
We now know what the market is capable of producing (Bambu Labs), so Stratasys may win the day, but they will never be a household name like Canon, HP, Brother, and Epson. Their market is primarily fortune 500 companies with manufacturing capabilities and companies that provide 3D printing services. Eventually their patents will expire and the market will produce high-quality, reliable, easy-to-use, and affordable machines for the home market without expensive "service plans". This is their blind spot. There is no plan for the home market other than "sue the little guy" or "buy the competition".
Just for conversation sake, my first Stratasys machine had a heated nozzle for model material, a heated nozzle for support material, a means for switching the heads, a heated build chamber where the heated air flodded over the printing area, a bed levelling sensor, and it used a slicing software to generate GCODE for the printer that was sent via an ethernet connection. The year was 1999. Utility patents last 20 years. Sounds like there is a lot of technology up for grabs right now.
Patents can be extended indefinitely...If a company keeps the patent in use...Which CLEARLY if you read the court case Stratasys has always done. Why is it you have no issue with Bambu's CEO saying "We use our patents as weapons in the industry"...Hmmmm?
Stratasys is risking being blocked from sales in other countries btw.
3d printing has rejuvenated my attention to 3d modeling.
They go hand in hand. I started moving onto meshmixer myself, but modeling is definitely an entire new level for me. I am always in awe of those who can 3D model with platforms like Blender etc
Boycott Stratasys and all their products!!!
If it comes to that I totally agree. If this is their way of trying to gobble up consumer and small business marketshare I think they will be in for a surprise. My concern is that its a tactic for acquisition which I don't think will be a good thing. Anyway thanks for sharing and watching
You don’t have to boycott them. We can’t afford their products in the first place.
But just remember they own thingivrse when they acquired maker it. They could just shut down or not let us use it and then we lost a massive haul of stl files.
I personally don’t like Bambu printers and let’s not forget Bambu Lab tried to patent corona designs not so long ago. So they to can be fu*kers
The only ones buying statasys are other corporations.
I agree but There printers are too expensive and behind bambu. Not worth buying anyway
So I don' think a boycott will work. Most of never bought there products before anyways due to the price.
I’ve been following 3-D printing for over five years, and I have never heard of this company before.
Just so you know. They own thingiverse. So you’ve been using their products at some point or another
Bummer
because their products are way out of yours and my budget. They make some of the best printers.
“Im patenting the extruder to all printers” is what stratasys is saying.
They are practically saying "I invented 3d printing, every bit of equipment, and every technological advancement" 😂
@@seanburton3130 lol AND any and all future advancements
This sounds like when Henry Ford tried to patent an entire car. Fortunately, the courts 100+ years ago told Ford to go pound salt.
Ford didn't invent the car, just pioneered the assembly line and mass produce vehicles to make them more cost effective.
The beauty of affordable 3d printers is that things can be replaced easily whether parts or the entire thing. There are to many parts prone to failure when it does and most will just spend a few bucks for a new one. Affordability is what makes 3d printers thrive just like ink printers.
The Ink Scam is what was so problematic with ink printers.
Don’t be sorry about that rant…I think we are in majorly really upset with this.
Well thank you, and thank you for watching 😀
We might be surprised which well known printer companies are already paying royalties to Statasys
I envision a future where this company's lawsuit will have the Streisand effect. Hopefully stratasys goes out of business. I am no fan of communist China by any means, nor am I defending their actions. I own an X1. But petty is petty. Heated build volume? Gimmie a break. What Bambu lab infringed was this company's pride. And what printer has straytasys come out with? Exactly, $30k-$50k printers don't sell.
Wow, you said it! And 100% same page. I don't wish anyone to go out of business but I hope the pressure makes them rethink their actions and perhaps they will drop the suit if they see that it can negatively impact their consumer market push via Ultimaker/MakerBot products. Anyway thank you so much for sharing and watching.
@@CaptainCreativity I hope the get out of business because is Izrael company HEre in USA the fired muslim people hard workers so sad and to much hate in this people ..i hope future is in Bambu Lab .
Bambu been filing patents using open source work of others. This probably real reason for lawsuits. Creality, prusa, elegoo, anycubic hasn't been sued. this is just me theorizing.
As far as i know, they have. There was a video the other day that dived into it and the top line says something like "Bambu and other Chinese sellers of 3d printers)
Nah, Stratasys is just a massive patent troll. This'll get tossed out, most likely.
@@Caldoric you probably should look up the definition of a patent troll, since pattern trolls do not manufacture anything they have patents on they only sue. They have been making 3D printing industrial grade 3D printers since the '90s.
man have you read into stratysys and their history. They were the reason that 3dprinting randomly took off in 2009 when stratysys's original patent's started expiring meaning people could build them without getting sued.
And stratysys's lawsuit is with open source ideas (most of them). If they can do this with no backlash then every company will start doing it.
@@wfpnknw32 did you know bambu applied for patent base on those similar designs a few years go 😉
Sell a printer without a heated bed, another company sells the heated bed to "ugrade" your printer. Change the way the bed heats, etc, and all this is moot.
Yep, and it's only a matter of time before a 3rd party such as Big Tree Tech makes a board for Bambu Lab machines.
They have done this more than a few times. Diy 3d printer tech started in the late 80's but was kept under lock and key tell one of the general patents they had expired opening the doors for the Orginal i3 bed slinger design.
sued another company that started making low cost printers in 2010's. They're the original enemy of 3d printing tbh haha not unexpected..
I’ve been watching a ton of RUclips videos lately so I can learn more before I buy my first printer. This is my first video I’ve seen on your chanel and you’ve really done an amazing job with this production. Man you kept me on my toes the whole time. I’m really about to get the P1S and I think I’ll still get it. Thank you, +1 sub
Hey thank you so much for the generous compliments. I'll try to keep them coming. Thanks for watching
So.. should i buy a bamboo now?? Before they disappear or???
I think you should buy one now before there is an injunction placed on them for selling to the United States. I think an injunction can happen much faster and if an agreement is not made I would not be surprised if this is the first thing that happens. Also keep in mind if they make a settlement we might end up paying for it in increased pricing. So if you were thinking of getting one, yeah I would buy it. Thanks for watching
Here is the rub, Bambu lab is a Chinese owned company, which means the Chinese government practically owns a portion of the company. Bambu lab isn’t going anywhere, but they may not be sold in the US, or if they are they will be higher cost.
This would be a different situation is Bambu lab were based anywhere else but China, but let’s be honest here if someone really thinks they are going to acquire a Chinese company and the Chinese government is just going to let it happen is sorely mistaken. I actually can see this backfire spectacularly and Bambu winds up being the one that buys out Stratasys.
This has got to be the dumbest thing I ever seen. Never mind the fact that, like them or hate them, Bambu forced advancement in 3D printing tech which to my mind is the greatest achievement Bambu has had to date.
The hype was just too strong at the time for their x1, everyone jumped on the bandwagon because it was finally not a diy machine. Then they came out with bed slingers, not as much interest and had a recall. Then lowered prices on them.
Yeah, sorry CCP backed machine is no go for me. I'd rather go prusa just for their open source firmware. Problem is I can't afford an mk4, instead I got an mk3s.
I mean if bambulab built on open source firmware, and then patented those ideas. They can go after anyone as well. Let's not give the CCP to keys to our lives.
@@oneanother1you can flash custom firmware on the x1
@@oneanother1 yeah but the problem is, this has already happened. The stop and think about where the vast majority of products are produced.
As far as Bambu producing a bed slinger, it actually was a smart move for them to put that product on the market because the core xy machines are too expensive for the average beginner. Yeah the recall hurt them, but Bambu isn’t the only 3D printer company that has had products that have had issues, and they won’t be the last.
Finally on the prusa front, they make a fine machine that reliable and durable. But they are incredibly expensive. The mk3s is probably double what it realistically should cost, and it’s slow out of the box. Like it or not speed and accuracy is in demand by the consumer now in fdm. And for the most part prusa has resisted print speed increase. Sure you can tinker with the printer and put different firmware on it and speed it up, then you have to tune it and build new profiles. The Mk4 has a lot of potential, but again it’s expensive, and they still haven’t opened up the full firmware on it. I do like that it has tool changing heads. Now if they could incorporate AMS systems for one or all of the heads that might push me to earth the cost because that would really open up the multi color printing capabilities of the machine.
Bambu pushed the printing industry to innovate more. You wouldn’t have the k1 series, the Jupiter 4, or the kobra 3 (to name a few) if Bambu hadn’t pushed them to do it, at least not yet.
And while I know there are a lot of people that jump out and say “well what about voron?” Yeah a typical beginner isn’t going to build a voron or rat rig. And on that subject I personally prefer the rat rig over the voron because it’s mostly a complete kit when you order it.
I have to ask what in gods green earth are you printing that your so scared Bambu is going to find out about? Yeah I can see some companies printing parts or prototypes that they don’t want out there but the average person not so much. Never mind the fact that you likely already had apps and programs that track and send your data to China or offer the information for sale to the highest bidder which is also China usually.
And finally I have to ask what hype the Bambu x and p series printers didn’t live up to. The speed? They all lost the maximum speed which is kinda a lie, the accuracy of printed parts? The longevity of the machines? My very first x1c is still running, and I’ve only had to replace the hot end twice and a sensor once in its life. It had thousands of hours on it, never mind the various other Bambu printers I run. In fact I’ve had less problems with those printers in their life spans then any other printer I’ve ever owned, including the rat rigs I run which are also very good machines. I got rid of my last prusa printer last summer. Why? It was too slow……. It was a good printer, just much slower then everything else. Could I have installed klipper, yeah but I didn’t want to.
I have criticism for every printer I own and have ever used. But the fact is the Bambu printers, in my personal experience, are some of the best off the shelf printers available today. Even the k1, which is essentially a clone of the Bambu, isn’t as good as the Bambu. I tried. While Bambu was the company that took the printing world by storm and forced innovation everyone else is catching up to offer nearly as good a product for less, and larger build volumes too. If they don’t release something substantial in both size, quality and speed soon they will be a footnote while the rest over take them. Rumor is they will release their second gen core xy this fall but it’s my understanding it’s going to disappoint in both features and build volume. But only time will tell for sure.
@@shawnhicks619 its the principle, invasion of privacy, and even if your data is sold to the highest bigger China is known for oppression, and I cannot support a product with it potentially having the CCP have full access to that information. Its not just for 3d printers, basically any device or app that can be exploited by an oppressive regime.
Bambulab sells just a corexy machine, nothing special. There bed slingers aren't anything special either. Its just fanboys being fanboys, before bambulab came along the prusa fanboys were singing its praises for how reliable it is. The mk4 doesn't have crash protection, which was a fantastic feature, noe the mk4 is dumbed down to being an expensive bed slinger.
I support open source firmware, which the k1 has. I have a k1 as well, nothing special. If 3d printing is your hobby, you probably have all the skills and knowledge to make it as reliable as anything out there. So I don't Gert these arguments to why this printer is better, maybe for noobs and fasnboys.
I need open source firmware, because I need to make changes for when I tinker on the machine. I print with different filament sizes and material, so its necessary to be able to dial it in at a firmware lvl. Bambulab is no go for me.
Excellent point and definitely my concern as well, thanks for sharing and watching
Purge Tower is an easy work around and already available in the Bambu slicer. It is instead another object/s being printed. So not a purge tower. Laurie. NZ. 😊
Very true. Btw are you referring to those purge creatures? Either way a good point. Thanks for watching and sharing
You can purge as infill to the object you’re printing as well. Might be terrible idea cos infill colours might be visible if the walls are too thin or when the material is a bit translucent.
Only in America…. I don’t know how many % of Bambu sales are in us, but I doubt it is the biggest piece of the pie. Easiest way for Bambu is to stop us distribution and have us customers import from abroad. I think what got stratasys raising their voice is the availability in retail stores (micro center). Or Bambu can just buy Stratasys and put their (ever smaller) business to rest..
Stratasys is looking for a settlement payout.
Just trying to stick their hands in Bambus profits. Essentially stealing.
What a joke.
I'm new to the 3d printing world. Recently bought the P1S with AMS, glad I did before it all goes to sh!t
As someone who has held patents and then had to enforce them this is much more complicated than this video presents. For example, heated beds. It is probably not the actual heated bed but the design of the components and process used to ensure a consistent temperature and even heating across the bed. It could be the actual design of the bed, which materials to use and the composition of the layers etc. If you really want to understand this you need to download a copy of the patent and read it then look at the court filings.
I did read the court filings, and I encourage you to do so as well. This is not a case where it was some very detailed process used to ensure a consistent temperature and the are getting into the weeds on that type of a very specific uniquely developed IP, it's way more generic than that:
"1. A build apparatus for printing a 3D object of thermoplastics
employing additive manufacturing methods, the apparatus
comprising:
a build platform with a temperature control unit configured to
control heating of the build platform;
a thermally conductive plate disposed adjacent to the build
platform; and
a polymer coating attached to a surface of the thermally conductive
plate which is capable of (i) facilitating adhesion to the 3D object
during printing and (ii) permitting removal of the 3D object once
the 3D object has been formed and cooled without chemically or
mechanically removing the polymer coating from 3D object and
without damaging the polymer coating, the thermally conductive
plate, or the 3D object, wherein the polymer coating is not a
polymer tape."
That boils down to using a heated build platform on a build plate with a polymer coating that isn't polymer tape. That is just plain greed.
@@hotfix7387 Cool. Thank you for research. Never watched your channel before so I wasn't sure how deep you go into the subject matter. I recently bought a P1S/AMS so of course this caught my eye.
@@amputeemarksman You lost me when it comes to watching my channel versus reading the court filings. Did you confuse me with the video owner we are both responding to?
If I remember correctly, Stratasys' finacial's have been having a rough time. This may be a way to try to inject get some quick cash through settlements. Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense. I don't see any Chinese companies paying them one thin Yuan. It's not like China respects patents and intellectual property rights.
yeah but they couldn't import them into the us which is a big market and possibly others. A bad case would be china keep innovating with faster prosumer affordable printers and we get stuck with an ultimaker knockoff. Slow unreliable and painful to fix.
Thanks for watching and sharing, my biggest concern is that if a deal is not made (and I dont think Bambu should settle) that Stratasys will move forward with an injunction in the meantime.
If there is really prior art out there for the heated bed and purge tower, then assuming Bambu Labs has competent attorneys, the patents will ultimately be held invalid. However, in many instances, the patent won't be on the broad technology like "heated bed" or "purge tower," it will be on some refined aspect of the technology. For example, maybe the prior art heats the bed throughout the whole print, but the patent may cover something like heading the bed prior to the first layer and then turning the heat off after the third layer in order to prevent the foundation layers from sagging. (Probably a bad example, but it illustrates the point.) The patent may then be different from the prior art even though both the prior art and the patent cover aspects of the heated bed. The legal nuances of patents tend to be complicated so don't be too quick to judge that something was already known simply because both relate to a similar technical aspect. The USPTO is pretty good about knowing what is out there and denying patents on things that are very known. Competent attorneys are good about digging up things the USPTO missed and getting patents held invalid. Some district court judges are pretty good with patent law, some not so much. But the appeals court for patents specializes in patent law so is very good. The biggest issue is whether Bambu Labs can bear the cost of the litigation.
If I make a fire and warm stuff on it is fine, but if I make a fire, place a pollished non abreasive stone on top, and lend a shit on it, is considered a heatbed; if change colour and make a purge block, that allows me to change colour in the first place since intuitivly the printerhead cannot go under the level of the intended print since will clash with it, is pattented, absurd, since this is the emerging logical straightforward solution. We live in the era of IOT devices, i have a watch to control a 3D printer, now this means my 3d printer is connected to the internet, Stratasys go suck an onion, really, what abismal Orwellian bs is this. Patents are a plague when they are not controlled debated and canceled, since they are non applicable anylonger. Stratasys doesn't own the internet. I womder whom aproved this ridiculous patents.😂
LOL! Love your comment, the patent office or just IP law is overdue for some reform. Thanks for sharing and watching
Case law for prior art is well set and would hold.
Also the fact they are chasing bamboo, who is a new company, when there was prior clear violations by other long existing company’s (prusa and the like) and they chose not to sue them long before now sets another president that they where h willing to enforce the existing patients. Therefor this cas can be thrown.
It’s legal posturing at best
You make a lot of great points. My biggest fear right now is that they're going to do an injunction which is going to bar them from selling the printers until things get settled. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Thanks so much for sharing and for watching.
That lawsuit isn’t going anywhere the people that came up with 3D printing open sourced the technology from the beginning, other major companies have already tried suing and failed. The consumer market 3D printing was open source since the beginning, and the commercial 3D printer market companies have already tried suing, the commercial companies lost.
I hope your right, but what about the concern of an injunction that can happen more immediately until the dust settles, this could bar them from selling to the United States which will have them hurting financially until the injunction is lifted. I hope it does not come to this but at the same time I do not see them settling. Anyway thanks for much for sharing and for watching
@@CaptainCreativity you are right I thought about that after posting they can prevent them from selling here in the US. I think we need to get together as a community, because to be honest this is a war against artist using these tools. Bambu labs can sign a deal with them and still make money, the only ones screwed here are us who use the technology.
The heated bed was issues in 2019, but do you know when it was filed??? It may have been filed many years ago- it can take a long time for patents to get issued. Also, the purge tower was issued in 2003. So they definitely had these patents way before 3d printing was popular. I believe Stratasys will win this thing- also, it wont hurt them at all because their market is much different than the maker market.
They don't have the money to keep this up in court Bambu should draw it out until there to broke to survive as a company. They didn't go after anyone else cause they can't afford it. Worst case scenario Bambu had to pay 5.00 per machine license but I don't even think that's gonna fly
Clearly what should happen with this law suit is that it goes to Court and then the Judge throws it out quick smart.
If anything, Bambu printers will just become more expensive in the US to offset the licensing fees.
didn't mosaic palette have towers??
They do indeed. So unless they have permission or are licensing they can also end up on Stratasys radar. Right now Anycubic has not been named and I think it's just Bambu Labs. Thanks for sharing and watching. More happier videos to come, thanks for watching
Has anyone tried telling Stratasys that a) it's not 1990 anymore, and b) no longer are printers the sole purview of large rich entities such as NASA or JPL or CalTech? If their business model depends on selling small numbers of mediocre machines at very high prices, in an era of market competition, perhaps they should rethink their market offerings.
This is stratasys gasping for money since they are clearly failing.
Crowd source prior art to break / help invalidate the patents?
That doesn't only help Bambu which I don't necessarily care for but the whole community.
Nah, it won’t end BL. Someone that owns a copyright or patent, they have to go out of their way to protect it. No matter how ridiculous the accusations maybe. That is why I believe they’re doing it. However, what they fail to realize is 3D printing companies have copied off eachother so much, it’s hard to tell who came up with first. That being said, Stratasys has already failed to protect their IP a long time ago if they ever truly owned the rights to the technology. Which I seriously doubt they owned the rights to a heating bed, purge tower, etc. Companies like this should have an equal reaction. Sue them for defamation. Stratasys is clearly picking a card out of a hat and making false claims. Sue them for making false claims and send that company to the graveyard pile. Nobody wants 3D printing services to be “get a quote”.
Also so if I were bambu I would starting contacting all the other companies to help fund the lawyers cost, enough so that stratasys will give up.
If you think any of what you says matters just thinks about how Masimo forced Apple to stop selling Apple Watches that measured blood oxygen. Just because consumers want their favorite companies to be able to break the law doesn’t make it legal.
I think there's a problem with can and will. They can sue anyone, they will probably only sue who they feel is a threat
Very true and very wise, thanks for sharing and watching.
Just remove the purge tower from Bambu Studio and allow plugins. The end user just downloads the purge tower plugin from a 3rd party developer. Simple.
Even though they have a patent, patents are only good for a max of 15 years......usually less. When the patent expired, this is when the consumer 3d printing market really kicked off.......I may be wrong here, if so, Im welcome to be corrected. Long live open source!!!!!
yeah that was stratasys's original patent from 1989 expired in 2009 which allowed 3d printing to take off. Before that they basically prevented any affordable competition. Since then it seems like they use the open source community as their R&D department. They build out the ecosystem and ideas then stratasys patent's parts or buys companies that had (ultimaker).
Someone did the same to WWF as if abbreviations can't mean something different.
Because WWF (wrestling and Vince McMahon) weren't DEI and WOKE enough for the World Wildlife Foundation. That's why they were allowed to be sued and forced to change name.
thank you for the clear information. the only thing you said I disagree with is your advice to go get these printers NOW as IF bambu labs disapears or is taken over all being proprietory as in their hot ends and other hardwear we would have very limited lifetime printers with no access to spares..
All good points. The main purpose of the statement was pricing and possible injunction. That will you can get A1 Mini for $200 and A1 for $350 is the main idea as it's quite possible that situations involving payment of fees or settlements can have a trickle-down effect in increasing pricing. Secondly there is a short-term concern that an injunction can be filed which would bar the sales of these printers in the United States until the trial comes to a conclusion or the injunction is lifted. Usually unintellectual property cases one of the first things the company will try to do is file an injunction for future sales while the case is being heard. An injunction can happen very quickly and the judge can grant it just as easily. So those are my two biggest concerns. In any case thank you so much for the feedback and for sharing and definitely thank you for watching
30 years ago, a company called General Hydroponics had all these patents on a type of hydroponics unit (the Ein Gedi system) that had a reservoir with a pump in it that sprayed the roots hanging down into the reservoir, and it just recirculated. I had multiple books from 20 years before that showing that exact technique. But GH somehow got through the patent process without showing this abundance of 'prior art' which would, of course, have invalidated their patent application.
So, yeah, the US Patent office is completely broken, and has been for a long, long time.
Awesome example and completely agree that the Patent office needs reform or just IP law in general. Anyway thank you for sharing and thanks for watching.
So 1st thing. As I understand if. They only have a USA patent. Even if they win it would only be a problem for USA. 2nd, you know what they say. If you have a good enough lawyer you can pretty much find a way to get past a patent. It really is true. I don't thing we should be too worried. And if will be in the courts for a long time if it goes forward
@@cpace123 Yes your correct as far as I know it effects the US for now. However Stratasys can file an injunction preventing sales to stop immediately until the case is resolved. If that happens it moves up the timeline even faster of cutting off the US supply. Your absolutely correct that with good IP lawyers they can make changes to avoid future infringement however Stratasys will still want damages to date. However there is also the danger and prescedent that it sets that if they do win that prior art from the open source community is fair game for companies to patent which is plain wrong. Then of course if there are damages or settlement of fees that it can impact pricing of their printers. Last and worst case scenario would be they scare them into acquisition and shelve or Jack up the pricing. Anyway there are definitely problems both short and long term. In any case thank you so much for the feedback and for watching. Thank you
The lawsuit will not end 3D printing. Worst case it will end closed ecosystem printers for cheap in the US
I agree it won't end it, but it can certainly impact it's future. Between licensing fees and Stratysys getting to control patents that were originated from the open source Rep Rap community it sets a real dangerous precedent that can severely impact price and ultimately accessibility to current and future users.
Open Source does not provide immunity from patent infringements.
yeah patent's can be quite powerful, there was still 3d printing before 2009, stratysys had it, it just didn't allow anyone else to develop it.
It's also irritating because many of their patents are more like 'ideas' than patentable solutions. If they win this, then there's strong incentive for anyone outside of countries that don't really care about US patents (e.g. China) to simply ignore the US market, on whole.
I'd avoid Statasys in every way going forward. You cannot patent heated beds, build plates with surfaces that assist with adhesion, or depositing layers of melted thermoplastic to build an object (FDM)? Stratasys has overstepped. They need to stop trolling and INNOVATE in their own way.
This is likely going to pressure open source projects and companies to patent their 'ideas' just to protect them from this crap. Stratasys is dead to me. Hopefully they suffer disproportionately from their arrogance.
It is never going to hold up in court. You cannot patent things that would be obvious to someone experienced in the field. The heated bed and purge towers are obvious answers to the problems they solve.
I think that's the problem with new technologies, the patent office it's not hard to make something new sound groundbreaking unless you're part of the community and know you could buy a flexible pei sheet and printer with a heated bed from the early 2010's. etc and that their 2004 patent is a rewrite of their 1989 patent because it was expiring.
Do you know if someone patented a device that uses electricity? Just a tought...
Isn't Cura from Ultimaker? As far as I know it is, and if it's any example of what Stratasys puts out, they can go under along with it. Absolute dumpster fire of a slicer; any surprise given where it came from.
I for one think its GREAT NEWS!!!! I hate Bambulab with every fiber of my being. I was brainwashed by all the fake hype, paid reviews, and from people who get free stuff from Bambu for "positive" posts. I bought 2 of their printers and they have been GARBAGE, Pure TRASH. machines. I have replaced tons of parts, have had to fight just to get decent prints and their customer support is the worst I have ever seen in any business. I hope Statasys BREAKS THEM. Puts them out of business. 3D printing was around long before Bambu and will be around long after...We dont need this crap company
Should start leaving bad reviews on Stratasys and brands they own now.
Stratasys doesn't own Ultimaker; they just have a minority investment. Their Cura software is also strictly open source.
find it hard to believe the heated bed, patent rights have long run out , and it so easy to change one thing. but open source , through who
It's BAMBU LAB... no S at the end.
Well Stratasys is an American company. And I try to buy American when it’s cost effective however I would never have been able to get into this hobby without companies like Bambu Labs and Creality that have made it affordable.
Very true however I think they are an American/Israeli company. They were founded I believe in Minnesota but the company is incorporated in Israel and has headquarters in both Eden Prairie, Minnesota and Rehovot, Israel. Anyway thanks for sharing and for watching.
If you look at the patents themselves, you will see that they are all expired and now in the public domain because they are now more than 14 years old and by law are now in the public domain and are for the most part is not legally enforceable. Patents are only good for 14 years to prevent stagnation in creativity.
they've got over 3 decades of patent lawsuits. One of them isexpiring in december the rest are around for another half decade at the least. Hopefully their not valid because many of the idea's were clearly not novel at least at the time and for many a year or several years earlier.
If anybody remembers Makerbot....The big evil.
Bambulabs are also trying to play the patent troll game, and in both the pro and consumer space. At least Stratasys were happy to stick to their own lane all these years. 3d printing will be better off without Bambu, so I say all power to Stratasys on this one. Better the devil you know.
I for one will never buy any product that Stratasys makes or any on their subsidiaries that they own. This is obviously a move by them to acquire bambu labs. I could see that they approached them to acquire the company and they said no so now they are pressuring them legally to get them to sell. I will now be researching Stratasys and see what companies they own and boycott all of those products. If nobody buys their product they make no money and will go belly up. The consumer has the power in this not the company!!
I'm going to patent there being air above the build plate idea....
All those companies do unethical things. The important thing is to grow 3D printing with innovation. Competition is vital. I could never do what I do with Strata system. I’m an old. disable guy on limited income. My CR10 spent more time being down. I create my own designs and want to be a valuable member of the society. This is my only options. If I were to buy a machine like Strata system have and be forced into their eco system….well that wouldn’t work. Students can create and push us so much forward….they are killing all that.
Your right. Companies do unethical things.
Remember that time Bambu Lab tried to patent the voron printers? They even submitted documents with the voron logo and name on them and claimed them as theirs.
@@ricstanden I think I remember hearing something like that, but so vaguely.
Fyi these are USA Patent/s so only valid in the USA. Laurie. NZ.
I think the other big printer manufactures should ban together and put Stratasys out of business. Stratasys is bleeding $$ and are greedy.
I just need like 400 more dollars to buy the x1c with the ams system so just wait like 5 months to go out of business
There is no such thing as a world wide patent so it looks like just the US will be affected given they are US patent numbers. I wonder how this will affect the global market, we should be encouraging innovation not stopping it. I dont think it would stop the idea of self builds with open source software/hardware.
Yup right now it should only be the US however I heard there is something in the works also in the UK. Either way totally agree with everything you said. It's always sad when innovation is stifled like this. Thank you so much for sharing and watching
Bamboo Labs is a Chinese company, so they most likely will not let a company like Stratysis push them around. It will mean BBL products are harder to get and more expensive for US consumers. I already boycot Makerbot products. Too expensive for what you get. I agree get your BBL stuff now. I love my X1 and would love another one. I have a Prusa too, and its a great machine. The BBL beats it hands down in every way.
I'm not using cura every again now
I think I know why they are going after Bambu Labs.
Very strategic actually
For the same reason I won't buy one, If they win this one, Unlikely IMO, but still a possibility.
they would get their hands on Bambu's base, they would become Pantone, also, they could easily have all the printers Bambu sold shut down, or useable with a stiff subscription
Bamboo ask for it. They used open source technology and behaved as if they are big company
Seriously where are all the bambulab haters. It's like everyone loves the CCP spy machine. Are bambulab bots that good to win over in the comments. Yeha, I really want to see whats in their source code during the trial. If bwmblulqb were open source then I would be weary.
They are a big company. With over $1 billion.
The name of the company is Bambu LAB not Bambu Labs
Unless you’re referring a product. So you’ve can then say ‘the x1c is one of the Bambu lab’s products’
But most will miss of the ‘ coz they don’t speak propa!
@@ricstanden That’s not what is happening here.
@@stevekay6895 i don’t think you understood the joke. Must be a British thing
@@ricstanden The Company was mentioned multiple times as Bambu Labs and if there was a joke here it flew way over my head. Apologies for my ignorance
I'm trying to make a 7 feet tall freddy fazbear and if I must abuse my printer to achieve it then so be it, but not at the expense of expensive 3d printers.
Well for one the people who buy their printers don't give two s*** about bambu lab being sued it's not even the same realm of business for them. And how is this any different than paying commercial rates for a 3D print that has all the same type of technology built into it that a million others have. This is just typical business it happens every day. Most likely the worst it'll happen is they'll have to pay a fine and then they'll have to give Stratus their due
People who buy Stratasys don't care about these lawsuits. Stratasys wont lose any money due to bad PR from this.
I thought 3dprinting is more or less open source. I can make my own printer with heated bed and so on. Talk about bs stratos is doing. Always some that sues onther.sad furure
American companies always win except for Bud.
Lol finally decided to get a bamboo x1c and started saving my money for one. Now, i might not even get a chance to buy one.f$%k, you stratasys.
Some years ago, under Obama administration. We went from a first idea to first to file patent system. These are the results.
The reason for that was because anybody could claim to have the idea first. But just having an idea doesn't get you anywhere, and never did.
You have to implement that idea in the real world. You can't just say "oh I have this great idea about running shoes that can make ham sandwiches", and then if someone makes those shoes, you try to sue them because you had the idea in your head, but yet never produced anything.
The system now is generally based on first to patent. However, that will not protect you if you've stolen not just someone's idea but an in-use design that they've already had.
Basically if I make and sell a widget for years but I never patented it and then you come along and make the same product and patent it, you can sue me for infringement. However, once it goes to court I'd be able to materially prove that I actually invented it and had it in use first. Subsequently, your patent would likely be voided.
First, it would be nice if you could link the exact document/article about the Lawsuit, I disapprove of breaking anyone's patent, but you mix apples and pitches, showing that you do not understand copyright and licensing at all, and anything that I hear from you is advocating for cheap low cost 3D printers, no mether then what
Ha I allready have my farm, to late.
A couple of things, prior art does not apply globally. It is completely legal to patent prior tech. Prior art applies to those that used the tech before it was patented but if you use the tech after it was patented then prior art doesn’t apply and it’s infringement. As to the lawsuit, touching on the issues you mentioned, it’s not simply suing because you have a heated bed, it’s how that bed heats up. If it happens the exact way the original company heats theirs, it’s infringement. Same with purge towers. I find your stance on this issue fascinating. It seems you’re ok with someone stealing and profiting off of the theft because it benefits all of us in the 3d printing community. What if this was your patent being stolen? Would you still hold the same position? Could you imagine paying millions of dollars to perfect a product, you price your product to get your money back for all you invested and then someone comes along and steals your patent, requiring them not to have to spend much money and then they sell their product for pennies on the dollar, setting themselves up to look like the hero’s that figured out how to do it for less? Would you let it go or would you be offended and want to be compensated for what’s yours? Why be mad at the owner instead of the alleged thief? The thief is the one that sold the dream. Someone or everyone will always get hurt when dishonesty and deception is at play.
Considering the history of the company, it is fair to call stratasys a patent troll. The reprap movement only took off due to the expiration of their relatively uncommercialized patent on fdm. They have done this successfully with makerbot, ultimaker, and another company that starts with A from like 2013 I can't recall.
They are trying to enforce a patent on polymer coated heated beds of two components one of which that can be easily removed without damaging the bed. Which you could argue is using a glustick, painters tape, or hairspray.
@@darbodrake89 doesn’t the fact that they’ve been successful mean something?
@@kingdomtouchesbyajayrichrn6077 that they have effectively used a system to stop and devour compeitiors to the detriment of the space? Yes.
Have you worked with their machines?
Have you had to deal with their support?
I will admit my biases, I have had very little positive experiences with their name brand factory models, as well as makerbot following their capture.
For what bias are you feeding?
@@darbodrake89 I agree, ultimaker and makerbot used to be good printers now they're just extortionate and honestly fairly bad printers (not even taking into account the £10,000 price).
And stratasys didn't invent anything, Arevo inc made the build plate patent, stratasys acquired them in march 2024 (likely for the dubious patent) which makes them a patent troll. They dont invent anything they find a way to extract money from people and if people stop buying their terrible printers then they go back to patent trolling.
This is the 'heated build plate' patent number (US9592660B2) search it on google patents. The 'claims' are basically around using a flexible non-stick removable plate. That's basically it. It talks about the current methods being using kapton tape which is true i remember but you could buy flexible removable pei build plates for 3d printers well before 2014. That wasn't an invention it was trying to steal someone else.
Saying that i find your stance on this issue also facinating. It seems ok when someone steals someone elses idea and patent's it. But what about if that someone else was you, or the creator didn't patent it because they wanted people to be able to buy £10 instead of £200 build plate. Someone or everyone will always get hurt when dishonestly is at play and i hope in this case it's stratasys.
Hasn’t Bambu attempted to patent designs they acquired from open source?
I'm not sure they tried to patent anything directly. But I do believe they patent certain things that rely on open source mechanisms. This is completely legal by the way. Basically you never claiming any rights to what was open source just on your addition to the part of it that works with the open source item.
@@chipwallaceartthey tried to patent designs from voron. But someone at Bambu forgot to remove the voron logo and names from the documents and they got found out
Stratasys deserves to win this case. They are a US company and Bambu Lab is a cheating, stealing Chinese company. I say Stratasys for the WIN! Hobbyists should not have 3D printers. Leave the 3D printing to the pros! Hobbyists are hurting US based 3D printer US because they keep supporting Chinese companies instead of US companies! Finally they have said enough is enough. Better buy up all those Bambu Lab printers while you can. I'm talking to you, 3D print farmers!
I hear what you're saying but one thing I would definitely point out is that some of this has nothing to do with China. Some of the big issues that people are having with this lawsuit is the fact that many of these patents were developed by people in the United States as well as all over the world who contributed these techniques and code to the rep rap community. So I think there is definitely a lot of people taking issue with the fact that they are suing a company whether it's Chinese or not on patented infringement which was taken from the open source community and is considered prior art. These people who contributed these technologies and code were never paid and they gave this technology to the world for free not for other companies to develop patents on them. So that's my biggest issue with the lawsuit.
Stratasys will win this, why, because companies are people.
Stratasys is a trash company who over charges for mediocre equipment and feels threatened and decided to lash out like they always do. Typical garbage strategy from a garbage company.
People, stop getting involved in this. You think any of the Bambu Lab or Strata listens to you? We are just the crumbs in this chaos. I see Patent lawsuits the way Italian Mafia operates. Pay up for your success, no highway option there. Patents should be tossed out and let people evolve and come up with their ideas, no matter if someone else came out first with the same idea. Just stop
I would like to see all of the others said as well 😂
I have no sympathy for Bamboo labs. Their anti-Prusa marketing is uncalled for. I boycott Bamboo and now Strat as well.
"anti-Prusa"? Prusa was at a stalemate........Bambu Lab Shook up the Market.
Prusa will be fine.
Just sounds like SCO vs Linux.. Start making wild claims and try to get people to license the imaginary infringement. SCO was on the way out and it was their last gasp to survive while not moving forward with their product.
Prior art cannot be patented is false.
They sound desperate, very scary though
This is the actively heated chamber thing again. You didn't invent it. Its just an oven. In your face greed and monopolistic behavior.
I won't purchase any of their products if they pull this nonsense.
This is just lawfare and attorneys filing charges because they see an angle.
I hope Bambu wins and sues for legal expenses.
I hope bambulab loses, show their source code, make sure they aren't stealing others ideas. Also, their machines are closed sourced so who knows what sort of spyware is in there. You have to remember they have full access to your machine, and China spies on everyone. Don't let them spy on you.
Have you seen the cost of stratasys printers. I doubt you not buying one will force them into bankruptcy
@@ricstandenno shit Sherlock. I still won't buy one, primarily though because they make overpriced trash compared to any number of other offerings.
Have a swell night.