wel.... PRO's want to do that... in a failed attempt they tried to confiscate CD's if the DJ has not every single purchase voucher... very stupid movement.
well if they decide to go to the dark side rob our hard earning ca$h I going to used DJ stand alone you can't go wrong with that they really going to lose a lot of money if people don't be so naive
please dont give them those ideas, now a days with a chip in the cridit card gonabe ease to do it jajajaja. 1 dollar per each track you play ajaajjajajajaj
Or at the very least, these companies should be made by law to put on the box (and advertisements) in large bold letters the day and date when these products are going to have their support dropped. That will inform the consumer how to best spend their money.
My friend has an older ddj 400 and cdj-1000s. He hasn't been able to update rekordbox in years because it will make his controllers and decks stop working! We just bought a denon prime 4+ and we love it!
Native Instruments dropped support for all their older Traktor controller for M1 macs apparently. Another greedy fucking corporation trying to push a slightly different version of the same damn thing.
Pretty much. They claim "it doesn't work because the new software doesn't support it". That's total BS. MIDI is MIDI. If it doesn't work is because Pioneer paid someone to add a bit of code that detects the old hardware and prevents it from working.
The DDJ RZX is not supported anymore. I actually have a subscription but even with that it's not working. They decided they did not want to put the effort in supporting the screens in RB7. Currently looking into which steps I can take against them as I am sure this is against EU regulations.
If you can still use RB6 i don't really see what you can legally do? Did they at any point promise future software support? I never liked pioneer and the way they do business but at some point it makes sense that they stop supporting old hardware for their new software. As long as you can still use the old software which was included with you product you have a working product.
Indeed, it was still in retail early 2021. Regarding RB 6: this software is no longer further developed. This means no security updates and fixes etc. I disagree with your point that it makes sense to no longer support hardware. The idea from the EU is that hardware that relies on software is supported through out it's acceptable life cycle. 3 years is definately not an acceptable life span for a 3000 euro pro controller. That is a true rip off. As for the hardware unlock issue (which is different than my problem), I think the flow to new devices should be natural. If you say that the device that you purchase comes with Rekordbox it should for its life cycle. Not a few more months with an unsupported version.
I worked for a software company. The biggest cash cow was tech support for that software, and it came in the form of a subscription. The company knew that in order to do their work and make a living, the customer needed our software. If the software had a problem, they couldn't do that. So they sold expensive tech support subscriptions. This model will only continue to grow as long as the customer keeps paying. Stand firm and boycott subscription based services.
I pay my pound of flesh every month and support completely ignores my emails (I don't even get canned or automated responses anymore). I cannot post to the forums as I seem to be stuck in a loop where as soon as I click the "start a new topic" button it kicks me back out to the landing page. They don't even care f you have a subscription anymore either unless you buy their flagship hardware. I'd be happy to pay their blood money if they'd only support my controller (a Pioneer DDJ-SX) but they seem to have intentionally designed RB v.7x to completely ignore it and also cripple earlier versions. It's insane what they are doing if they are doing what it certainly seems like they are.
"When Denon becomes market leader they will pull the same trick" Well, at the moment they don't do it and pioneer does. I'm not saying we should trust any of these corporations, but it's best to support the ones that are not charging you for the same product twice (or recurringly)
I paid 3000€ for my DDJ-RZ controller and I had all features with hardware unlock when version 6 came out. After version 7 arrived, they removed most features and put them behind the paywall... F**k you AlpaTheta!!
You'll be lucky to be able to use it even with a paid subscription. They went much farther than pay gating it, if anecdotal evidence online is any indicator. Your hardware may not even work if you give them your money. That's where I am with an original DDJ-SX. RB won't even recognize that it is plugged in (except as a single channel audio interface). People with much newer hardware are reporting similar situations. It is atrocious.
That's why I stopped using Pioneer and continued to use Traktor which is a full blown licence. With Traktor Pro 4 they moved away from the subscription model altogether.
plus one for Mixxx. I love my Kaoss DJ but Serato stopped support and virtual DJ wants me to pay for a license which costs more than the Kaoss DJ. Mixxx to the rescue, and it works awesome.
Consider going vinyl. Record players keep their value and you never need to upgrade or worry about software support. I'm still using my 1210:s from 1988.
@@defcreator187 lol 😂 Your funny, yer like you gonna play in a club with your controller lol 😂 We are talking ethics here and poor customer care and attitude. And I probably played more clubs than the amount of years you have graced this world. And indeed I use my denons at home alongside my 1210’s mk2. And have never been able to justify the price tag of the pioneer CDJ’s 2000+ Used to have an old CDJ400 LTd However was sometime ago. Feel free to pay for your software, its upto you…
I don't buy pioneer stuff since they stopped innovating. Switched to denon. I'm very happy with it. Only exception is the durability of faders and buttons which I truly believe they'll solve in the future
This is a great example of why old school DJs have a superior edge over modern DJs. For example, I have a collection of a little over 1,000 pieces of vinyl I collected from 1996 to roughly 2007 when I started collecting MP3s from sites like Beatport. No company has any control over me if I want to bust out some 1200s and an old non-Serato mixer and bump the party. I got the skills that require nothing but the most simplist of technology. The only problem is that 100 pieces of vinyl (45s) with one track per side is about 200 tracks weighs somewhere around 50 pounds. That's the ONLY downside to the way it was.
Same here I own my music records cds and I have many mp3 files on several hard drive. I have old controllers that still work without all the fancy shit. Still own technics 1200 mk2 and cdj900 and Old school Dj mixers Could care less what they do.
It's not the only downside... Grooves wear out from usage/cueing, they can get scratches, warped, etc. I've had all of the above happen even though I take great care and store them properly, etc. I totally agree with the general sentiment though.
I still have my techno vinyl, about 800 in number, that I started buying in 1991. Girls underwear hit the floor at light speed creating small craters when they see you come in with the equipment and records.
I'm too old to climb those damned ladders with a bag of vinyl anymore. 50lbs on a janky ladder 30 feet in the air is a pretty big downside. Also, vinyl wears out, being analog media and all. I guess some old media players and a tube preamp (so we can still grumble about the "warmth") might suffice. I could carry a book of CDs up a ladder still. LOL
Would sell my Pioneer XDJ XZ as soon as Denon drops a Prime 5 with mechanical jog wheels. My first experience was with CDJ 2000, years later I started dj’ing at home with DDJ400 and a tried a couple of other controllers, but IMO you can’t beat mechanical jogs… So I went for the XDJ XZ, despite lacking some killer features the Prime 4 has.
I had prime 4, 4 years used 10 hrs a week min. It fell apart . And the jogs are sensitive to electromagnetic fields. I got Xz now. We’ll see in time hiw it holds up.
Welcome to the 1% of us who actually care about motorized jog wheels 99% of the population doesn’t care about this which is why companies don’t give a fuck about about it
I kept away from Pioneer. I always found Denon offered far better equipment. Virtual DJ and Denon served me well. Great video, so glad you are speaking out against this money grabbing tricks play by Pioneer.
Lol? Djaypro is terrible. It can't even maintain feature parity between ios, android or desktop. Not to mention the subscription model and the distinctly terrible list of supported controllers. VirtualDJ is hands down rhe best software available ATM it just costs an arm and a leg. Mixxx is the most ethical choice and honestly the only hope we have software wise for long support of bulk hardware at a low enough price point anyone can have a crack (free).
to be fair: 1) ios, android, pc and mac are not the same hardware-wise. my ipad pro with m2 definitly better than intel 1165g in my notebook. feature parity on random hardware is hard. holy shit, real-time stems work great on a tablet with passive cooling. 2) “terrible list of supported controllers” yeah, but excelent midi-mapping. it is possible to buy class complient controller and map it as you wish. it’s easy and it works great. proprierary features may not work, but algoriddim can not drop support of class complient controllers. and they depend on willingness of said pioneer to disclosure proprietary drivers anyway. 3) …and you are right about subscription model. 4) …and I should try Virtual DJ.
@@gtvwillarm and a leg?? It’s 299 for a lifetime license that included all plugins, dvs support video support or the sub is 19.99 that’s hardly an arm and a leg for a working dj.
Software support costs money and it's always easier to make breaking changes instead of ensuring backwards compatibility. That's why I'm always skeptical when hardware is dependent on external software and can't function on its own. I'm a software engineer myself and also make music, but purely with hardware and without a DAW, completely without a notebook (except for the initial configuration of my MIDI controllers, which then work without a notebook, standalone), because I just want to make sure that when I buy a music device, it will work just as well and remain usable in 10 years' time. For profit reasons, of course, it always makes sense to produce something that won't last a lifetime, otherwise you won't earn anything. So what is the solution to this problem? I would argue that you invest in a controller that doesn't require external software to configure it and communicates via a standard that is too widespread that the DJ software manufacturer is shooting itself in the foot if it no longer wants to support this standard. I think switching to a MIDI controller such as Faderfox (the ones you can configure without a notebook) could be a good first step.
for those that are locked out of RB7..... dont worry, youre not missing anything! even the unlocked units cant use the AI Auto-cue in the 'free' version after the trial is up!!
I agree with you 💯 percent. These companies come out with updated products from a previous model and treat it like it's the best on the market just to have dj buy the same thing again for more money. They give products to popular club and social media DJs and get paid fake reviews to hype products to sell. Then behind the scenes they do subscription services just to use gear you already paid hundreds of dollars for with included software that only needs firmware updates but now you have to pay to play. It's only going to get worse until just like DJ Plaza said we have to stop buying their products and subscriptions. Please DJs do your research before you spend your hard earned money.
They are becoming money grabbers. For over 2 years, we have been crying for STEMS and hoping version 7 would improve STEMS. I wouldn’t be surprised if STEMS will be on subscription after the improvements. I’m thinking of moving to SERATO and having DJAY PRO as a backup go-to.
"You need to vote with your wallet" I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people. If you dislike a company and their behavior, stop giving them money!!!!!!!
Vote with your wallet only works when every player in a market is equal. Pioneer has a defacto monopoly and therefore some leverage on what they can do. I hate to support this, but If I want to be comfortable with club gear, I am going to stick to Pioneer controllers.
@@Lumpus_ Not just tedious, downright impossible. No one wants to have a DJ moving equipment on stage, unplugging/repluggging things, etc. The DJ doesn't wanna do that, the DJ preceding them doesn't want it, the club owner and the sound guys definitely don't want it, and the crowd sure as hell doesn't want the music to suddenly cut because something wrong was unplugged or they can't figure out why the equipment isn't working properly with the club's equipment and now there's ten minutes of silence while someone gets on the mic to apologize for the mishap.
You are correct and for some people a $400 controller is a lot of money. I hope someone sues Pioneer. If my new FLX4 stops working ill be extremely angry.
$400 is a lot of money for some. You are right and here in Europe, you can pay much more. I've since moved to Virtual DJ and haven't looked back. Pioneer doesn't care about their customers, only their bonuses.
7 years ago I got on the Denon Prime boat, a single SC5000 and Engine DJ (music prep only), I understood the road map Denon was laying out. Not being shackled to a laptop or services put me in control, haven't looked back since, haven't touched any DVS or DJ software, all my music local not on a service. I'm in control, not a corporation. Convenience is a trap for DJs and the industry knows it.
What I don’t understand is, how Pioneer thinks this going to bring in new customers or get loyalty from current users. I’ve been in the market for awhile now for a new controller to upgrade my Denon mc7000. I’m def not going to Pioneer now, had been lusting a xdj-xz forever. Hoping for a an update. Decided a Rane Performer is prolly the direction I’ll go. I’m already comfortable with Serato, I find its music management to be much much easier for me. RekordBox can pound sand.
I’ve got nearly 5 grand sitting in an account waiting for Pioneer to refresh their 2016 tech. It’s been there for two years and It can stay there because there’s no way I’m buying either an XDJ 100 mk2 or a djm750mk2 not everyone wants a good damn controller.
Where is this illegal? You must live in the EU. Everywhere else in the world this is completely integrated into any and every product on the market (any market, for anything). Has been for decades. Try to get a service manual easily. 💁
@@DurhamBell Yes it is illegal in the EU, but I'm from Canada. Each provinces are working on their own Bill, but Québec is the first province/state in North America to forbid planned obsolescence with Bill 29. Didn't know that it was still a thing elsewhere!
So... What would currently be the correct move for a hobbyist? I have about half a meter worth of vinyl that I want to digitise, back from my days as a small-time "zolderkamer" DJ. Forget all the digital supports, I just want to be able to mix the old-fashioned way. And while the SL1200's and SL1210's were the norm back then, I'm not married to any brand. And I want to teach my 13 year old the art of mixing too. Any pointers?
standalone equipment that doesn't rely on specific software that companies can use to extort money from you on a monthly basis. Nothing that is connected to the internet, so you don't need updates that they can use against you for ransom
Keep your vinyls and keep using them. Maybe buy yourself a good pair of used Technics 1200 Mk5, a mixer that unlocks Serato DJ Pro and maybe a pair of timecode vinyls for using. That's a good pick. If you already know how to play on vinyls, it's way more pleasant than using toy-ish controllers.
@@djgustavvo The problem I see is the cost of (re)entry. A stand-alone controller with a pair of good jog wheels will probably set me back much less than a good used pair of SLs and a mixer that understands MIDI signals from vinyl. I'd _love_ to go with the latter if the price gap wasn't that significant. There is also the practical difference in how both set-ups take up space and can be moved or not.
As an avid user of Recordbox, I am shocked by the news that Pioneer is discontinuing support for older controllers. It is downright scandalous that they demand such high prices for their devices and then proceed to charge additional subscription fees. I agree that Pioneer needs to do something about the soaring prices, especially considering the fact that I own two CDJ-2000NXS2s and a DJM-900NXS2. If the new controllers were more affordable, I would definitely consider upgrading. Unfortunately, I have now switched to Traktor DJ. I believe that my next move will be to transition to Denon controllers. Many DJs are already making the switch due to the ongoing innovation that Denon offers, while regrettably, I see little innovation from Pioneer. It also strikes me that whenever Denon introduces something new to the market, Pioneer tends to lean towards imitation rather than innovation. Let's hope that Pioneer listens to the feedback from their users and takes steps to make their products more affordable and innovative. In the meantime, I look forward to my potential switch to Denon and the exciting new possibilities they have to offer.
Hmmm...if Pioneer actually lost the market leader position to Denon, that _may_ be enough to convince Denon not to go down the same road as Pioneer. No guarantee of course 🤷♂
5 years ago, most companies stopped offering perpetual licences. Now the same companies are sunsetting the perpetual licences via yearly “maintenance fees”. So we payed outright, now we pay a subscription fee regardless. Pioneer have even killed old support forums, for what reason?!
You speak truth my friend My next controller won't be Pioneer and until I get a knew one it's time to put on the good old pirate hat und to hoist the flag 🏴☠️🏴☠️ Aye!
Every competitor makes cheap equipment that breaks. Denon has QC issues, Nemark sucks it’s cheaper than cheap build quality. Pioneer runs this game, they’re the industry standard so while yes I agree they do a piss poor job with the software and such. They make damn good hardware and like I said. They’re the industry standard if you’re practicing not in rekordbox / not on pioneer equipment and you want to play shows. You’re doing yourself a disservice. And that’s why pioneer will remain at the top.
I have been using mates ddjs for years this year i decided to save up and spend a bit of extra money on an all in one, (xdj rr) I bought it because I didn't want to use a laptop (partly for this reason) im heart broken than if i ever plug my all in one that it wont work.
This is why i moved over to Virtual DJ. Works with almost every controller, mixer and player. I own a DDJ-1000 and still have everything unlocked in Rekordbox but i can already see this shady business practice getting out of hand in the future as you described. That's why i moved everything over to Virtual DJ already. I don't even care to use Rekordbox anymore even though i still can. I also just bought a Denon Prime 4+ over an Opus Quad for this very reason as well. I am done with Pioneer.
I’ve been DJing for more than 15 years and I never bought a thing from Pioneer. My first setup was a pair of Denons, which I used for more than 10 years (talk about reliability) as CD players, then as USB players, and then as controllers. Only recently did I switch to NI Traktor (S4). NI tried a subscription service recently but ditched it with the Traktor software v4. I recommend DJs look around because there is plenty of good gear from various manufacturers. Pick your setup based on your style of playing and budget, not on what clubs and rental companies are buying. Club standard is a myth. There’s nothing wrong with bringing your own controller to the gig.
Since I was about 8 years old i have always used traktor. at 16 years old i find that pioneer if FAR too expensive for someone who has not got a lot of money or options. Granted the s4 mk3 retails for about 800 quid. But if i buy them 2nd hand its half the price. I've been djing on the traktor kontrol s8 since a kid and would like something of my own that has special features worth every penny. But the way i see it. Pioneer are trying to make profits from your passion as a dj. There making you pay for that buzz you feel when 2-3 tracks go together like butter and you feel that sense of proudness in yourself. That feeling should be priceless IMO
I used to use Traktor Pro. However, I'm not satisfied with Alpha Theta's behavior. Rekordbox DVS offers flexible beat grids and a superior library function. If Traktor Pro were to add flexible beat grids, improve its library function, fix the "Deck Lock" issue, and address other long-standing complaints from DJs, I might consider switching back.
@@djsubculture2111 Traktor has its flaws but i personally think its far more user friendly than rekordbox. Despite rekordbox having certain library functions, Its still manageable within traktor if you organise your music anyway. Ive personally never had the money to try rekordbox/pioneer so can only really tell the story from one side but everyone has there preference. I suppose traktor is heading more towards the music production side so it all really depends what you want to intergrade into your djing
you are right "from the title". They are the worst on the market. All the other Software is much better(from a DJ). their software is like crank like made in 2010 and it's 2024. Even the CDJ3000 quality is a Joke. and the best mixer V10 is copying Denon's stuff. I just hope NI can stand up and kill Pionner.
And here I am still using a DDJ-SR from 2013 that still gives me a hardware license to use the latest Serato DJ Pro …. bought it used and it works great as a production midi „keyboard“ in SeratoStudio and as DJ controller in Serato DJ Pro…
I'm kinda new to a dj hardware and yesterday I thought about buying some cheap pioneer ddj usb controller. Can I install old version of record box and use it? Keeping in mind that I don't need any online functions.
Hi Deejay Ive seen both videos you recently made about Pioneer and it was really informative. I am not a DJ but in the future I may want to buy a controller and learn how to DJ at home. So following these two videos you made could you make some videos on these topics: what software can we use that doesn't require a subscription, what controller should we buy as of 2024 that continues to have lasting support and isn't discontinued so quick like pioneer is doing. etc Also if anyone sees this and has suggestions just add it under this comment. Hopefully a video can be made about it.
This is the reason why many people responded to you about Denon. Their OS is being used by multiple companies and...if they do become a market leader, they'd likely not be able to reverse-engineer a 'gotcha' into their older products. Not being able to update the unit any longer isn't always a bad thing-but what Pioneer is doing...IS. The fact that non-recordbox analyzed tunes on a flash drive do not receive bpm data made me hate Pioneer even more...
Sadly they're digging their own grave. Denon won't do the same, because all their new gear doesn't need a computer, they have computers in them. So very much like you could time lock a computer. Thats what happens on independent gear.....but it will always do what it does now.
I'm glad to hear you admit that all digital DJ's are responsable for this. Just go back to two turntables and a mixer, and of course a vinyl collection. More satisfying for everybody, incl. the people in the clubs.
@@renatomartins2086 oh yeah, they live in the past! I was just being cynical. For me, it has its limitations but it does what I need. I guess if you stop chasing the latest and greatest and stick with what works for you, you have a better chance to avoid these types of scams.
I was in contact with Pioneer support for my DDJ-RZX in regards its compatibility with RB7. It was sad. So many non conclusive statements. The best quote: "However, DDJ-RZX is an old model, so the video display does not show video when using rekordbox 7. Therefore we should say that DDJ-RZX is not fully compatible with rekordbox 7."
So gld for your honesty.i own denon set up mixed with other stuff allen and heath ect. I never bought into pioneer dj just because i think their product are not that great and i left serato when i stopped using my turntables.Shame marketing and money all these companies are intrested in.good video 👍🏽
Imho, software should only put limitations on things you can use in regards to software (eg. disabling certain encoders or limiting the bitrate you can record with), not the hardware you can use. I think DaVinci Resolve (video editting software) does this very well: Bring any camera you want _but_ if you don't get the paid version, some in-software limitations may apply (such as being limited to just 4K).
This is why I use Traktor. Although I have to pay a subscription, it’s relatively cheap and they take a long long time to stop supporting old hardware. Plus… doesn’t take ten hours to analyse/ export tracks for use again and again and again…..
My gut says the dj field market isn't profitable anymore so they need to go subscription or outdated (hey Traktor!) Standalones could be a solution but the true point is wallet-voting as you pointed and underground solutions depending on what do you need (mixing or scratching). Innovate in djing field is also hard due djs are consumers are very "laggards" and could keep working with their turntables and any dvs out there (or counterparts) meanwhile new ideas such stems or remixing tools aren't truly profitable. These are usually more accepted as studio tools so you end mixing whatever on simple setup. There's any dvs system outputting stems for dedicated hardware channels so external mixing is possible? Internal fx are usually crap... also all the Apple Arm switch (now Wintel following) makes market even more stagnated... I've lost even the joy of djing at all.
Thank you for your videos calling out Pioneer on their shitty business tactics. I’m getting back into DJing after 15+ years and the environment has changed a lot. Your videos helped me to stay completely away from these bastards and go all in with Traktor and NI hardware. Sure, they have their own issues with slow development but at least my VCI-100 still works with it. Hell Vestax doesnt even exist anymore, yet I can still use it with modern software. Pioneer, take note. Your customers do not like you.
I have been using Pioneer products since around 1997. Over the years, with changes in the company's ownership, after 2014, we have witnessed a decline in the build quality of Pioneer products. You can easily compare the build quality of the CDJ-1000 MK2 with the new Pioneer product, the CDJ-3000. Certainly, none of the DJ hardware manufacturers, except for Denon, have taken professional action, but I think the new owners of Pioneer have decided to bid farewell to professional DJs. Recently, I worked with Virtual DJ software, and I can confidently say that it is five times better than Pioneer's Rekordbox software. We will wait to see what the company's policies are to determine our stance.
Sad state of things, yes. But i still bought an Opus Quad 2 months ago: I bought SL1200's in 1994. CDJ1000's around 2005 (late to the digital party). Then 2000's came and i said NO!. I kept burning cd's.. i tried Traktor. I bought a Denon MCX8000 in 2016. BUT..... Whenever i have a gig in a club or what else; i have Pioneer in front of me. So i gave in. I want to focus on 1 system, get really familiar with it; like i used to have 'the club standard' at home from 1994 -2006...
I would like to buy a dj controller (something like DDJ-FLX 4). Is this a good choice for a beginner? I have like 50 gigabytes of music on my hdd which I would like to use (and maybe, just maybe, map cues for the tracks I like the most in Rekordbox as I was advised this is something that I should learn). Which controller I should go for? I know it is hard to tell what will happen over time but I really dont want to get milked with software as a service payment model, rather a one time payment (I dont plan throwing gigs, I just want to mix at home for me and my friends). Is DDJ-FLX 4 a good starting point? Or should I look for something else?
Is it going to be your first controller or you had a contact with another gear before?, If it's going to be the first, I see no problem on getting a FLX4 and leaning how to play and manage your library with Rekordbox. But if you already have some experience, I would not go to the FLX4. I myself sold mine in order to buy a used DDJ-SX2 or RX. This is because these small controllers quite do the job, but they are quite simple as well... Small jogs, small tempo fader, small Vu meters, which limits your performance. So again, if youre going to start from somewhere, then try the DDJ FLX4, and keep it as a back-up unit (probably You're in a county where these things got a fair price, so it won't hurt your wallet). I would also advise you to look for a second hand DDJ 400 if you wanna spend less, or a DDJ -800 if you wanna spend more.
@@djgustavvo DDJ400 is exactly the same as FLX4 in terms of functionality and usability, DDJ800 isnt worth it when you could just invest in an all-in-one or older CDJs
@@djgustavvo thanks! I only used Traktor on iPad before and VirtualDJ on pc but... using mouse so its barely a mixing experience. I think ill go for the flx-4 then, thanks!
@@deejayplazaSerato is not yet owned by AlphaTheta, as the regulators in New Zealand (where Serato is from) haven't given a go ahead on the acquisition yet, due to an objection from inMusic (owner of numark, denon etc.). Currently the decision date is listed as 18th of July, but it has already been pushed back numerous times, so I assume it will be moved further.
Do all controllers require subscription services, or is this more for all-in-ones? I'm new to the hobby with a Hercules MK200 (low budget, I know). But I want to be informed when I eventually upgrade. I want to avoid subscriptions at all costs. I'm tired of a world where everything is a subscription. 😭
I always disliked Pioneer because they are what almost all the big dj's use, so when little old me would play a festival and use Ableton, there was always a huge ass Nexus system that had to be dismantled to make room for my APC-40 and gear. I never could afford a huge Pioneer system, I think they are pretentious, and over rated, and I dislike subscriptions too. Glad I stuck with Ableton all these years, watching Pioneer implode is just desserts for all the times a Nexus system got in the way of my little Ableton setup haha
I decided when I got into this, that I'd stick to standalone or hardware-only mixing with CDJs. I use a well backed up, old-school, non-cloud library and USB sticks. No subscriptions and no bullshit. If they had a perpetual license, I'd have no problem with a controller setup, but that's giving them too much power.
Im a owner of DDJ 800 and for that price its a really expensive its just a mapped keyboard with really poor hardware only 2 microchips that handle USB connection and rekordbox on laptop doing everything of course 3 locked beat fx effects where u need pay 300+ dollars for ping pong , helix and vinyl brake effect and there is more locked features . Any hardware features there for that price its just a mid-range sound card and cheap PCB we just paying for software thats already locked .
I’ve always hated RB…. I started using VDJ 20 years ago and bought it for $50. After buying a few controllers over that time and trying RB But just found it 1st to confusing way back and also to many unnecessary clicks to make it all work, even the options were displayed in a stupid manor, so I’ve stuck with VDJ since day 1! Now I’m benefiting from the love I gave them and not being subjected to the bullshit RB is throwing at folks. Every controller I’ve used worked within 2 weeks of owning it with VDJ! So my advice to any DJ that needs to use software….. get VDJ… yes it’s expensive now £300. BUT…. You’ll all benefit in the long run. In the VDJ forums we are laughing our heads off about RB users coz we have the best programmers and we are ALWAYS looked after by them!
I've been switching to Denon DJ for some time now and for now, I can only be satisfied with everything. If Denon also starts scamming customers like Pioneer is doing, I will change again and ADIOS. Alphatheta, will be the ruin of the Pioneer DJ brand.
I upgrade from Hercules DJ Control Steel to Pioneer FLX4 two weeks ago. Recordbox is awful. I bought a mixer-specific VirtualDJ license, I paid 99€ for Hercules. It is so comfortable to use. It may be that I buy a new VirtualDJ license for FLX4. I'm just a bedroom DJ and for my own pleasure I play. Anyway, Tidal support is better in VirtualDJ than in Recordbox.
If rekordbox 7 it is under payment, peoople should by ad all in one controller if they like use pioneer dj controllers, but with USB and personal playlist, without using rekordbox anymore, but it is a very slow limit for the djs be more flexible and fast work with the music preparation before a gig.
Next move:
Starting up the CDJs in a club and a pop up says: _"Please insert your credit card to use this unit"_
whahaha. wouldn't be surprised
wel.... PRO's want to do that... in a failed attempt they tried to confiscate CD's if the DJ has not every single purchase voucher... very stupid movement.
well if they decide to go to the dark side rob our hard earning ca$h I going to used DJ stand alone you can't go wrong with that they really going to lose a lot of money if people don't be so naive
please dont give them those ideas, now a days with a chip in the cridit card gonabe ease to do it jajajaja.
1 dollar per each track you play ajaajjajajajaj
Enshittification is loose and greediness is off the charts.
Dropping support on functional hardware needs o be illegal. No reason to pack the landfill with functional devices.
100% agree
@@deejayplaza Everybody can keep using rekordbox 6 for free as long as they want. Devices are not bricked wtf are you talking about, people... oO
Or at the very least, these companies should be made by law to put on the box (and advertisements) in large bold letters the day and date when these products are going to have their support dropped. That will inform the consumer how to best spend their money.
My friend has an older ddj 400 and cdj-1000s. He hasn't been able to update rekordbox in years because it will make his controllers and decks stop working!
We just bought a denon prime 4+ and we love it!
@@ABizzyBYT but you can still use the older versions right? I don't see why ppl would upgrade
Back to the vinyl lads.
Their software and hardware will get hacked. Seen this happen to many greedy Corporations.
Lets hope
i already used serato for free when starting out, im sure there is a bunch of recordbox cracks going to pop up, as soon as they make it worth it
There are at audiotools website already
As it always has been.
It has done up to v6.8.4, so v7 will be cracked soon enough.
Fuск the subscription model
You will own nothing and be happy 😂
its freaking midi controllers.
you are right ...
Native Instruments dropped support for all their older Traktor controller for M1 macs apparently. Another greedy fucking corporation trying to push a slightly different version of the same damn thing.
Pretty much. They claim "it doesn't work because the new software doesn't support it". That's total BS. MIDI is MIDI. If it doesn't work is because Pioneer paid someone to add a bit of code that detects the old hardware and prevents it from working.
@manny_f they never said that. It will work, once you subscribe. Or you can stick to rekordbox 6, which is still working just fine.
What's midi controller 😊
"You will own nothing and be happy."
good quote!
U will play vinyl and be happy 😂😂
We own nothing already but illusion❤
W.E.F
Agenda 2030
The DDJ RZX is not supported anymore. I actually have a subscription but even with that it's not working. They decided they did not want to put the effort in supporting the screens in RB7. Currently looking into which steps I can take against them as I am sure this is against EU regulations.
I did wonder if someone would go down this route. I hope you get somewhere.
Seriously? that thing is still a pretty modern piece of kit.
If you can still use RB6 i don't really see what you can legally do?
Did they at any point promise future software support?
I never liked pioneer and the way they do business but at some point it makes sense that they stop supporting old hardware for their new software. As long as you can still use the old software which was included with you product you have a working product.
Indeed, it was still in retail early 2021. Regarding RB 6: this software is no longer further developed. This means no security updates and fixes etc. I disagree with your point that it makes sense to no longer support hardware. The idea from the EU is that hardware that relies on software is supported through out it's acceptable life cycle. 3 years is definately not an acceptable life span for a 3000 euro pro controller. That is a true rip off. As for the hardware unlock issue (which is different than my problem), I think the flow to new devices should be natural. If you say that the device that you purchase comes with Rekordbox it should for its life cycle. Not a few more months with an unsupported version.
They have had future support for all controllers before, so when you buy one with support you assume it will be the same.
Louis Rossmann might have something to say about this... might be worth getting in contact with him.
@louisrossmann
how do we tag him lol
I worked for a software company. The biggest cash cow was tech support for that software, and it came in the form of a subscription. The company knew that in order to do their work and make a living, the customer needed our software. If the software had a problem, they couldn't do that. So they sold expensive tech support subscriptions. This model will only continue to grow as long as the customer keeps paying. Stand firm and boycott subscription based services.
Is this about AVID or is this about AVID lmao
I pay my pound of flesh every month and support completely ignores my emails (I don't even get canned or automated responses anymore). I cannot post to the forums as I seem to be stuck in a loop where as soon as I click the "start a new topic" button it kicks me back out to the landing page. They don't even care f you have a subscription anymore either unless you buy their flagship hardware. I'd be happy to pay their blood money if they'd only support my controller (a Pioneer DDJ-SX) but they seem to have intentionally designed RB v.7x to completely ignore it and also cripple earlier versions. It's insane what they are doing if they are doing what it certainly seems like they are.
"When Denon becomes market leader they will pull the same trick"
Well, at the moment they don't do it and pioneer does. I'm not saying we should trust any of these corporations, but it's best to support the ones that are not charging you for the same product twice (or recurringly)
I paid 3000€ for my DDJ-RZ controller and I had all features with hardware unlock when version 6 came out.
After version 7 arrived, they removed most features and put them behind the paywall...
F**k you AlpaTheta!!
can you still use version 6 with the controller for free?
@@martinschone3531 Yes. But I cannot export edited tracks... Before version 7 I could...
You'll be lucky to be able to use it even with a paid subscription. They went much farther than pay gating it, if anecdotal evidence online is any indicator. Your hardware may not even work if you give them your money. That's where I am with an original DDJ-SX. RB won't even recognize that it is plugged in (except as a single channel audio interface). People with much newer hardware are reporting similar situations. It is atrocious.
@@DurhamBell But I'm using version 6! When version 7 came out, I cannot use features on version 6 that I had before...
my 40 year old technic 1200 still functions perfectly smh
Just by some Denon stuff. The club standard thing does not matter.
Unless you're playing at the clubs.
@@djsubculture2111 Some clubs have Denon equipment in their inventory. I also see nothing wrong with bringing your own gear to the gig.
That's why I stopped using Pioneer and continued to use Traktor which is a full blown licence. With Traktor Pro 4 they moved away from the subscription model altogether.
the fact this is how most companies operate now feels like the beginning of a black mirror episode
Next step is creating Open Source DJ software. No more huge corporations controlling everything
You are welcome to the Mixxx community. We need the numbers and you need the stability :)
@@NicolayGiraldo was coming here to say just this like mixx is free and open source and does more then rekordbox does in some cases.
plus one for Mixxx. I love my Kaoss DJ but Serato stopped support and virtual DJ wants me to pay for a license which costs more than the Kaoss DJ. Mixxx to the rescue, and it works awesome.
virtual dj sort of achieves this, 1 time fee, life time support
@@NicolayGiraldo mixxx is nowhere near feature parity
Consider going vinyl. Record players keep their value and you never need to upgrade or worry about software support. I'm still using my 1210:s from 1988.
Went the DENON Engine DJ Way and I’m a HAPPY CAMPER 👌🏼
Hence why Im a DenonDJ user.
And indeed I don’t pay for any subscriptions…
I refuse to… ❤
@@defcreator187 lol 😂
Your funny, yer like you gonna play in a club with your controller lol 😂
We are talking ethics here and poor customer care and attitude.
And I probably played more clubs than the amount of years you have graced this world.
And indeed I use my denons at home alongside my 1210’s mk2.
And have never been able to justify the price tag of the pioneer CDJ’s 2000+
Used to have an old CDJ400 LTd
However was sometime ago.
Feel free to pay for your software, its upto you…
Denon is next level n should be in all clubs
I don't buy pioneer stuff since they stopped innovating. Switched to denon. I'm very happy with it.
Only exception is the durability of faders and buttons which I truly believe they'll solve in the future
They dropped support for my DDJ-RX. Thats me done with them
rightfully so
This is a great example of why old school DJs have a superior edge over modern DJs. For example, I have a collection of a little over 1,000 pieces of vinyl I collected from 1996 to roughly 2007 when I started collecting MP3s from sites like Beatport. No company has any control over me if I want to bust out some 1200s and an old non-Serato mixer and bump the party. I got the skills that require nothing but the most simplist of technology. The only problem is that 100 pieces of vinyl (45s) with one track per side is about 200 tracks weighs somewhere around 50 pounds. That's the ONLY downside to the way it was.
Same here I own my music records cds and I have many mp3 files on several hard drive. I have old controllers that still work without all the fancy shit. Still own technics 1200 mk2 and cdj900 and Old school Dj mixers Could care less what they do.
It's not the only downside...
Grooves wear out from usage/cueing, they can get scratches, warped, etc.
I've had all of the above happen even though I take great care and store them properly, etc.
I totally agree with the general sentiment though.
I still have my techno vinyl, about 800 in number, that I started buying in 1991. Girls underwear hit the floor at light speed creating small craters when they see you come in with the equipment and records.
With a good DAC like Focusrite and you could rip stereo FLAC versions of the tracks.
I'm too old to climb those damned ladders with a bag of vinyl anymore. 50lbs on a janky ladder 30 feet in the air is a pretty big downside. Also, vinyl wears out, being analog media and all. I guess some old media players and a tube preamp (so we can still grumble about the "warmth") might suffice. I could carry a book of CDs up a ladder still. LOL
Would sell my Pioneer XDJ XZ as soon as Denon drops a Prime 5 with mechanical jog wheels.
My first experience was with CDJ 2000, years later I started dj’ing at home with DDJ400 and a tried a couple of other controllers, but IMO you can’t beat mechanical jogs… So I went for the XDJ XZ, despite lacking some killer features the Prime 4 has.
I had prime 4, 4 years used 10 hrs a week min. It fell apart . And the jogs are sensitive to electromagnetic fields. I got Xz now. We’ll see in time hiw it holds up.
Welcome to the 1% of us who actually care about motorized jog wheels 99% of the population doesn’t care about this which is why companies don’t give a fuck about about it
@@djslip_irieMust have been bad grounding 😂
I kept away from Pioneer. I always found Denon offered far better equipment. Virtual DJ and Denon served me well.
Great video, so glad you are speaking out against this money grabbing tricks play by Pioneer.
Djay pro has by far the best software just a shame it cant read serato/RB crates from an external drive. Hopefully soon...
Lol? Djaypro is terrible. It can't even maintain feature parity between ios, android or desktop. Not to mention the subscription model and the distinctly terrible list of supported controllers.
VirtualDJ is hands down rhe best software available ATM it just costs an arm and a leg.
Mixxx is the most ethical choice and honestly the only hope we have software wise for long support of bulk hardware at a low enough price point anyone can have a crack (free).
to be fair:
1) ios, android, pc and mac are not the same hardware-wise. my ipad pro with m2 definitly better than intel 1165g in my notebook. feature parity on random hardware is hard. holy shit, real-time stems work great on a tablet with passive cooling.
2) “terrible list of supported controllers” yeah, but excelent midi-mapping. it is possible to buy class complient controller and map it as you wish. it’s easy and it works great. proprierary features may not work, but algoriddim can not drop support of class complient controllers. and they depend on willingness of said pioneer to disclosure proprietary drivers anyway.
3) …and you are right about subscription model.
4) …and I should try Virtual DJ.
@@gtvwillarm and a leg?? It’s 299 for a lifetime license that included all plugins, dvs support video support or the sub is 19.99 that’s hardly an arm and a leg for a working dj.
This is an issue thats hitting all companies. They are all looking how they can make even more money. Subscription is killing everything.
Software support costs money and it's always easier to make breaking changes instead of ensuring backwards compatibility.
That's why I'm always skeptical when hardware is dependent on external software and can't function on its own.
I'm a software engineer myself and also make music, but purely with hardware and without a DAW, completely without a notebook (except for the initial configuration of my MIDI controllers, which then work without a notebook, standalone), because I just want to make sure that when I buy a music device, it will work just as well and remain usable in 10 years' time.
For profit reasons, of course, it always makes sense to produce something that won't last a lifetime, otherwise you won't earn anything.
So what is the solution to this problem?
I would argue that you invest in a controller that doesn't require external software to configure it and communicates via a standard that is too widespread that the DJ software manufacturer is shooting itself in the foot if it no longer wants to support this standard.
I think switching to a MIDI controller such as Faderfox (the ones you can configure without a notebook) could be a good first step.
Good video, thanks for the news. What Pioneer is doing is just a disgrace. A tip from me, use Traktor and forget all the problems.
People sometimes ask why I play cds when its so much more convenient to use software and a controller. Well, this is one of the many reasons.
@@Kiham80 cool story bro
So far, the infinity license (one time payment) for VDJ has held. Over 15 years I believe since they introduced it.
And I hope it stays that way. Virtual DJ is a wonderful piece of software. I'm really enjoying all the things it has.
for those that are locked out of RB7..... dont worry, youre not missing anything! even the unlocked units cant use the AI Auto-cue in the 'free' version after the trial is up!!
Better decision I made in my life switching to Denon Dj
I agree with you 💯 percent. These companies come out with updated products from a previous model and treat it like it's the best on the market just to have dj buy the same thing again for more money. They give products to popular club and social media DJs and get paid fake reviews to hype products to sell. Then behind the scenes they do subscription services just to use gear you already paid hundreds of dollars for with included software that only needs firmware updates but now you have to pay to play. It's only going to get worse until just like DJ Plaza said we have to stop buying their products and subscriptions. Please DJs do your research before you spend your hard earned money.
They are becoming money grabbers. For over 2 years, we have been crying for STEMS and hoping version 7 would improve STEMS. I wouldn’t be surprised if STEMS will be on subscription after the improvements. I’m thinking of moving to SERATO and having DJAY PRO as a backup go-to.
im 99% sure it will be a subscription
They've been money grabbers
They're just getting bold about it
Wait on serato, it's being aquired by AlphaTheta, Pioneer DJ's parent company, so I'll not be surprised if they merge rekordbox and serato
Yeah serato and pioneer are one company now
Just make your stems on any ai site . Way cleaner. No live processing.
I have sold my DDJ-RZ just 2 weeks ago, just in time I guess. It is time to switch to Traktor, the good old friend that never failed me
Try Denon, you won't regret! A friend of mine bought a Prime 4 and he loves it.
"You need to vote with your wallet"
I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people. If you dislike a company and their behavior, stop giving them money!!!!!!!
How would you play in a club then when 99% of them only have Pioneer CDJs? Bring your own gear? Pretty tedious.
Vote with your wallet only works when every player in a market is equal. Pioneer has a defacto monopoly and therefore some leverage on what they can do.
I hate to support this, but If I want to be comfortable with club gear, I am going to stick to Pioneer controllers.
Because they are MINDLESS DRONES!!! 🤨
@@Lumpus_ Not just tedious, downright impossible. No one wants to have a DJ moving equipment on stage, unplugging/repluggging things, etc. The DJ doesn't wanna do that, the DJ preceding them doesn't want it, the club owner and the sound guys definitely don't want it, and the crowd sure as hell doesn't want the music to suddenly cut because something wrong was unplugged or they can't figure out why the equipment isn't working properly with the club's equipment and now there's ten minutes of silence while someone gets on the mic to apologize for the mishap.
they're the standaed.....how da f you're gonna play around?
You are correct and for some people a $400 controller is a lot of money. I hope someone sues Pioneer. If my new FLX4 stops working ill be extremely angry.
$400 is a lot of money for some. You are right and here in Europe, you can pay much more. I've since moved to Virtual DJ and haven't looked back. Pioneer doesn't care about their customers, only their bonuses.
dont forget you need to pay for the songs you play or pay for a pool and then pay BMI their royalties if you play in public... what a world...
true
Denon have not done this. Even my old MC7000 which is 6 years old is still fully supported and has perpetual licences.
we will see how long that lasts, at the end of the day they are still a corporation, and I have faith in none... hope I am wrong
this is disgusting, adobe got suid recently. isn't this illegal? This is why I would buy a standalone, until they get subscription for that to
Lol whatta scam, guys just ignire pioner products and use others like denon etc.
7 years ago I got on the Denon Prime boat, a single SC5000 and Engine DJ (music prep only), I understood the road map Denon was laying out. Not being shackled to a laptop or services put me in control, haven't looked back since, haven't touched any DVS or DJ software, all my music local not on a service. I'm in control, not a corporation. Convenience is a trap for DJs and the industry knows it.
What I don’t understand is, how Pioneer thinks this going to bring in new customers or get loyalty from current users. I’ve been in the market for awhile now for a new controller to upgrade my Denon mc7000. I’m def not going to Pioneer now, had been lusting a xdj-xz forever. Hoping for a an update. Decided a Rane Performer is prolly the direction I’ll go. I’m already comfortable with Serato, I find its music management to be much much easier for me. RekordBox can pound sand.
I still have a MC7000 as well as sc5000's. The 7000 is a damn good controller, even today.
I wanted the XZ also, but thought it was past due for a mk2. Went with Prime 4+.
I hear the Rane Performer is really an amazing piece of gear. Good luck with your decision.
I’ve got nearly 5 grand sitting in an account waiting for Pioneer to refresh their 2016 tech. It’s been there for two years and It can stay there because there’s no way I’m buying either an XDJ 100 mk2 or a djm750mk2 not everyone wants a good damn controller.
Oh I still have a relative new ddj-rz on my closet, can I still use it with Recordbox 6?
0:20 That's called straight up planned obsolescence and is absolutely illegal
Toyota has adopted this model and their dealerships are FULL of trucks they cannot sell.
Where is this illegal? You must live in the EU. Everywhere else in the world this is completely integrated into any and every product on the market (any market, for anything). Has been for decades. Try to get a service manual easily. 💁
@@DurhamBell Yes it is illegal in the EU, but I'm from Canada. Each provinces are working on their own Bill, but Québec is the first province/state in North America to forbid planned obsolescence with Bill 29. Didn't know that it was still a thing elsewhere!
So... What would currently be the correct move for a hobbyist?
I have about half a meter worth of vinyl that I want to digitise, back from my days as a small-time "zolderkamer" DJ. Forget all the digital supports, I just want to be able to mix the old-fashioned way. And while the SL1200's and SL1210's were the norm back then, I'm not married to any brand. And I want to teach my 13 year old the art of mixing too.
Any pointers?
standalone equipment that doesn't rely on specific software that companies can use to extort money from you on a monthly basis.
Nothing that is connected to the internet, so you don't need updates that they can use against you for ransom
@@deejayplaza Thank you. Can you recommend a few that I should further look into?
Keep your vinyls and keep using them.
Maybe buy yourself a good pair of used Technics 1200 Mk5, a mixer that unlocks Serato DJ Pro and maybe a pair of timecode vinyls for using. That's a good pick.
If you already know how to play on vinyls, it's way more pleasant than using toy-ish controllers.
@@djgustavvo The problem I see is the cost of (re)entry. A stand-alone controller with a pair of good jog wheels will probably set me back much less than a good used pair of SLs and a mixer that understands MIDI signals from vinyl. I'd _love_ to go with the latter if the price gap wasn't that significant. There is also the practical difference in how both set-ups take up space and can be moved or not.
As an avid user of Recordbox, I am shocked by the news that Pioneer is discontinuing support for older controllers. It is downright scandalous that they demand such high prices for their devices and then proceed to charge additional subscription fees. I agree that Pioneer needs to do something about the soaring prices, especially considering the fact that I own two CDJ-2000NXS2s and a DJM-900NXS2. If the new controllers were more affordable, I would definitely consider upgrading. Unfortunately, I have now switched to Traktor DJ.
I believe that my next move will be to transition to Denon controllers. Many DJs are already making the switch due to the ongoing innovation that Denon offers, while regrettably, I see little innovation from Pioneer. It also strikes me that whenever Denon introduces something new to the market, Pioneer tends to lean towards imitation rather than innovation.
Let's hope that Pioneer listens to the feedback from their users and takes steps to make their products more affordable and innovative. In the meantime, I look forward to my potential switch to Denon and the exciting new possibilities they have to offer.
This has been coming since companies stopped shipping license keys together with hw. Switching to subscriptions are just the first red flag
Hmmm...if Pioneer actually lost the market leader position to Denon, that _may_ be enough to convince Denon not to go down the same road as Pioneer. No guarantee of course 🤷♂
5 years ago, most companies stopped offering perpetual licences. Now the same companies are sunsetting the perpetual licences via yearly “maintenance fees”. So we payed outright, now we pay a subscription fee regardless.
Pioneer have even killed old support forums, for what reason?!
You speak truth my friend
My next controller won't be Pioneer and until I get a knew one it's time to put on the good old pirate hat und to hoist the flag 🏴☠️🏴☠️
Aye!
very good points mate, im into NI Traktor & i stay there for sure, love the hard & software, best support ever!
I didn’t realize this was happening, super concerning
Every competitor makes cheap equipment that breaks. Denon has QC issues, Nemark sucks it’s cheaper than cheap build quality. Pioneer runs this game, they’re the industry standard so while yes I agree they do a piss poor job with the software and such. They make damn good hardware and like I said. They’re the industry standard if you’re practicing not in rekordbox / not on pioneer equipment and you want to play shows. You’re doing yourself a disservice. And that’s why pioneer will remain at the top.
I have been using mates ddjs for years this year i decided to save up and spend a bit of extra money on an all in one, (xdj rr) I bought it because I didn't want to use a laptop (partly for this reason) im heart broken than if i ever plug my all in one that it wont work.
I placed a comment on your other video. I am completely convinced I need to cancel my Rekordbox DJ performance subscription. Thank you!
This is why i moved over to Virtual DJ. Works with almost every controller, mixer and player. I own a DDJ-1000 and still have everything unlocked in Rekordbox but i can already see this shady business practice getting out of hand in the future as you described. That's why i moved everything over to Virtual DJ already. I don't even care to use Rekordbox anymore even though i still can. I also just bought a Denon Prime 4+ over an Opus Quad for this very reason as well. I am done with Pioneer.
I’ve been DJing for more than 15 years and I never bought a thing from Pioneer. My first setup was a pair of Denons, which I used for more than 10 years (talk about reliability) as CD players, then as USB players, and then as controllers. Only recently did I switch to NI Traktor (S4). NI tried a subscription service recently but ditched it with the Traktor software v4.
I recommend DJs look around because there is plenty of good gear from various manufacturers. Pick your setup based on your style of playing and budget, not on what clubs and rental companies are buying. Club standard is a myth. There’s nothing wrong with bringing your own controller to the gig.
Since I was about 8 years old i have always used traktor. at 16 years old i find that pioneer if FAR too expensive for someone who has not got a lot of money or options. Granted the s4 mk3 retails for about 800 quid. But if i buy them 2nd hand its half the price. I've been djing on the traktor kontrol s8 since a kid and would like something of my own that has special features worth every penny. But the way i see it. Pioneer are trying to make profits from your passion as a dj. There making you pay for that buzz you feel when 2-3 tracks go together like butter and you feel that sense of proudness in yourself. That feeling should be priceless IMO
I used to use Traktor Pro. However, I'm not satisfied with Alpha Theta's behavior. Rekordbox DVS offers flexible beat grids and a superior library function. If Traktor Pro were to add flexible beat grids, improve its library function, fix the "Deck Lock" issue, and address other long-standing complaints from DJs, I might consider switching back.
@@djsubculture2111 i prefer traktors library style, pioneer's beat grid analysis is awful for drum n bass... i hate that pioneer is a necessary evil
@@djsubculture2111 Traktor has its flaws but i personally think its far more user friendly than rekordbox. Despite rekordbox having certain library functions, Its still manageable within traktor if you organise your music anyway. Ive personally never had the money to try rekordbox/pioneer so can only really tell the story from one side but everyone has there preference. I suppose traktor is heading more towards the music production side so it all really depends what you want to intergrade into your djing
you are right "from the title". They are the worst on the market. All the other Software is much better(from a DJ). their software is like crank like made in 2010 and it's 2024. Even the CDJ3000 quality is a Joke. and the best mixer V10 is copying Denon's stuff. I just hope NI can stand up and kill Pionner.
Denon DJ ❤
seems like the old cdjs will come handy, fuck software!
And here I am still using a DDJ-SR from 2013 that still gives me a hardware license to use the latest Serato DJ Pro …. bought it used and it works great as a production midi „keyboard“ in SeratoStudio and as DJ controller in Serato DJ Pro…
I'm kinda new to a dj hardware and yesterday I thought about buying some cheap pioneer ddj usb controller.
Can I install old version of record box and use it? Keeping in mind that I don't need any online functions.
Pioneer are just generating a TON of electronic waste by arbitrarily dropping support and pushing a forced subscription. Boycott!
And that’s why I don’t own any pioneer products.
Hi Deejay Ive seen both videos you recently made about Pioneer and it was really informative. I am not a DJ but in the future I may want to buy a controller and learn how to DJ at home. So following these two videos you made could you make some videos on these topics: what software can we use that doesn't require a subscription, what controller should we buy as of 2024 that continues to have lasting support and isn't discontinued so quick like pioneer is doing. etc Also if anyone sees this and has suggestions just add it under this comment. Hopefully a video can be made about it.
This is the reason why many people responded to you about Denon. Their OS is being used by multiple companies and...if they do become a market leader, they'd likely not be able to reverse-engineer a 'gotcha' into their older products. Not being able to update the unit any longer isn't always a bad thing-but what Pioneer is doing...IS. The fact that non-recordbox analyzed tunes on a flash drive do not receive bpm data made me hate Pioneer even more...
Sadly they're digging their own grave. Denon won't do the same, because all their new gear doesn't need a computer, they have computers in them. So very much like you could time lock a computer. Thats what happens on independent gear.....but it will always do what it does now.
I'm glad to hear you admit that all digital DJ's are responsable for this. Just go back to two turntables and a mixer, and of course a vinyl collection. More satisfying for everybody, incl. the people in the clubs.
Stuff like this is the reason why I put dj’ing on the back burner and picked up playing instruments more. I don’t have to update my acoustic guitar.
At least Traktor barely gives you anything of value with their subscription program :D
But they stopped innovating also. For open format djs it's not good. And I loved traktor
@@renatomartins2086 oh yeah, they live in the past! I was just being cynical. For me, it has its limitations but it does what I need. I guess if you stop chasing the latest and greatest and stick with what works for you, you have a better chance to avoid these types of scams.
I was in contact with Pioneer support for my DDJ-RZX in regards its compatibility with RB7.
It was sad. So many non conclusive statements. The best quote: "However, DDJ-RZX is an old model, so the video display does not show video when using rekordbox 7.
Therefore we should say that DDJ-RZX is not fully compatible with rekordbox 7."
jeez
So gld for your honesty.i own denon set up mixed with other stuff allen and heath ect.
I never bought into pioneer dj just because i think their product are not that great and i left serato when i stopped using my turntables.Shame marketing and money all these companies are intrested in.good video 👍🏽
Imho, software should only put limitations on things you can use in regards to software (eg. disabling certain encoders or limiting the bitrate you can record with), not the hardware you can use.
I think DaVinci Resolve (video editting software) does this very well: Bring any camera you want _but_ if you don't get the paid version, some in-software limitations may apply (such as being limited to just 4K).
This is why I use Traktor. Although I have to pay a subscription, it’s relatively cheap and they take a long long time to stop supporting old hardware.
Plus… doesn’t take ten hours to analyse/ export tracks for use again and again and again…..
My gut says the dj field market isn't profitable anymore so they need to go subscription or outdated (hey Traktor!)
Standalones could be a solution but the true point is wallet-voting as you pointed and underground solutions depending on what do you need (mixing or scratching).
Innovate in djing field is also hard due djs are consumers are very "laggards" and could keep working with their turntables and any dvs out there (or counterparts) meanwhile new ideas such stems or remixing tools aren't truly profitable. These are usually more accepted as studio tools so you end mixing whatever on simple setup. There's any dvs system outputting stems for dedicated hardware channels so external mixing is possible? Internal fx are usually crap... also all the Apple Arm switch (now Wintel following) makes market even more stagnated...
I've lost even the joy of djing at all.
Thank you for your videos calling out Pioneer on their shitty business tactics. I’m getting back into DJing after 15+ years and the environment has changed a lot. Your videos helped me to stay completely away from these bastards and go all in with Traktor and NI hardware. Sure, they have their own issues with slow development but at least my VCI-100 still works with it. Hell Vestax doesnt even exist anymore, yet I can still use it with modern software. Pioneer, take note. Your customers do not like you.
I am sure that Ive read lately that, on some 4 channel pioneer controllers, you have to pay to “activate” the other two channels.
Is this true?
not sure, could be, I wouldn't be surprised by the way Pioneer is acting lately.
@@deejayplaza
Yea pioneer seems to like “extracting the urine” out if people
All I need is for Denon to make players with great quality build and DYI reparability and I'm selling all of my Pioneer DJ crap ASAP
Pioneer keeps on fxcking up! I think it’s time for me to make the move to denon 🤷♂️
I have been using Pioneer products since around 1997. Over the years, with changes in the company's ownership, after 2014, we have witnessed a decline in the build quality of Pioneer products. You can easily compare the build quality of the CDJ-1000 MK2 with the new Pioneer product, the CDJ-3000.
Certainly, none of the DJ hardware manufacturers, except for Denon, have taken professional action, but I think the new owners of Pioneer have decided to bid farewell to professional DJs.
Recently, I worked with Virtual DJ software, and I can confidently say that it is five times better than Pioneer's Rekordbox software.
We will wait to see what the company's policies are to determine our stance.
Sad state of things, yes. But i still bought an Opus Quad 2 months ago: I bought SL1200's in 1994. CDJ1000's around 2005 (late to the digital party). Then 2000's came and i said NO!. I kept burning cd's.. i tried Traktor. I bought a Denon MCX8000 in 2016. BUT..... Whenever i have a gig in a club or what else; i have Pioneer in front of me. So i gave in. I want to focus on 1 system, get really familiar with it; like i used to have 'the club standard' at home from 1994 -2006...
I would like to buy a dj controller (something like DDJ-FLX 4). Is this a good choice for a beginner? I have like 50 gigabytes of music on my hdd which I would like to use (and maybe, just maybe, map cues for the tracks I like the most in Rekordbox as I was advised this is something that I should learn). Which controller I should go for? I know it is hard to tell what will happen over time but I really dont want to get milked with software as a service payment model, rather a one time payment (I dont plan throwing gigs, I just want to mix at home for me and my friends).
Is DDJ-FLX 4 a good starting point? Or should I look for something else?
Is it going to be your first controller or you had a contact with another gear before?,
If it's going to be the first, I see no problem on getting a FLX4 and leaning how to play and manage your library with Rekordbox.
But if you already have some experience, I would not go to the FLX4. I myself sold mine in order to buy a used DDJ-SX2 or RX. This is because these small controllers quite do the job, but they are quite simple as well... Small jogs, small tempo fader, small Vu meters, which limits your performance.
So again, if youre going to start from somewhere, then try the DDJ FLX4, and keep it as a back-up unit (probably You're in a county where these things got a fair price, so it won't hurt your wallet).
I would also advise you to look for a second hand DDJ 400 if you wanna spend less, or a DDJ -800 if you wanna spend more.
@@djgustavvo DDJ400 is exactly the same as FLX4 in terms of functionality and usability, DDJ800 isnt worth it when you could just invest in an all-in-one or older CDJs
@@djgustavvo thanks! I only used Traktor on iPad before and VirtualDJ on pc but... using mouse so its barely a mixing experience. I think ill go for the flx-4 then, thanks!
What we do about Serato DJ then?
They will probably go the same route as they are also owned by AlphaTheta
@@deejayplazaSerato is not yet owned by AlphaTheta, as the regulators in New Zealand (where Serato is from) haven't given a go ahead on the acquisition yet, due to an objection from inMusic (owner of numark, denon etc.). Currently the decision date is listed as 18th of July, but it has already been pushed back numerous times, so I assume it will be moved further.
Do all controllers require subscription services, or is this more for all-in-ones?
I'm new to the hobby with a Hercules MK200 (low budget, I know). But I want to be informed when I eventually upgrade.
I want to avoid subscriptions at all costs. I'm tired of a world where everything is a subscription. 😭
they didn't in the past, but the way this is going ...
I always disliked Pioneer because they are what almost all the big dj's use, so when little old me would play a festival and use Ableton, there was always a huge ass Nexus system that had to be dismantled to make room for my APC-40 and gear. I never could afford a huge Pioneer system, I think they are pretentious, and over rated, and I dislike subscriptions too. Glad I stuck with Ableton all these years, watching Pioneer implode is just desserts for all the times a Nexus system got in the way of my little Ableton setup haha
I decided when I got into this, that I'd stick to standalone or hardware-only mixing with CDJs. I use a well backed up, old-school, non-cloud library and USB sticks. No subscriptions and no bullshit. If they had a perpetual license, I'd have no problem with a controller setup, but that's giving them too much power.
wow i didnt even know this was an issue that is progressively getting worse and worse
Somebody in the US should go to court for this! With enough people chiming in on the same case they will lose and this ish will stop!
I'm so happy I have all Denon Prime gear; at the moment!😢
We wouldn’t mind if we could actually get hold of new Pioneer equipment!
Im a owner of DDJ 800 and for that price its a really expensive its just a mapped keyboard with really poor hardware only 2 microchips that handle USB connection and rekordbox on laptop doing everything of course 3 locked beat fx effects where u need pay 300+ dollars for ping pong , helix and vinyl brake effect and there is more locked features . Any hardware features there for that price its just a mid-range sound card and cheap PCB we just paying for software thats already locked .
I’ve always hated RB…. I started using VDJ 20 years ago and bought it for $50. After buying a few controllers over that time and trying RB But just found it 1st to confusing way back and also to many unnecessary clicks to make it all work, even the options were displayed in a stupid manor, so I’ve stuck with VDJ since day 1! Now I’m benefiting from the love I gave them and not being subjected to the bullshit RB is throwing at folks. Every controller I’ve used worked within 2 weeks of owning it with VDJ! So my advice to any DJ that needs to use software….. get VDJ… yes it’s expensive now £300. BUT…. You’ll all benefit in the long run. In the VDJ forums we are laughing our heads off about RB users coz we have the best programmers and we are ALWAYS looked after by them!
I've been switching to Denon DJ for some time now and for now, I can only be satisfied with everything. If Denon also starts scamming customers like Pioneer is doing, I will change again and ADIOS. Alphatheta, will be the ruin of the Pioneer DJ brand.
I upgrade from Hercules DJ Control Steel to Pioneer FLX4 two weeks ago. Recordbox is awful. I bought a mixer-specific VirtualDJ license, I paid 99€ for Hercules. It is so comfortable to use. It may be that I buy a new VirtualDJ license for FLX4. I'm just a bedroom DJ and for my own pleasure I play. Anyway, Tidal support is better in VirtualDJ than in Recordbox.
If rekordbox 7 it is under payment, peoople should by ad all in one controller if they like use pioneer dj controllers, but with USB and personal playlist, without using rekordbox anymore, but it is a very slow limit for the djs be more flexible and fast work with
the music preparation before a gig.
When companies prioritize shareholders over the users who buy the products.