Thank so much for these videos! Very important for so many people! I don’t miss one of these videos! Great work. I was part of a cult in the 1970’s, when there was a big Christian commune movement, we were young , 19 years old and even now I am learning so much, processing what we experienced, there was lots of sexual sin, nothing is new under the sun!
I was at ihop and participated for 10 years. Fasting really messed my body up and the problems still are with me.. Im partly to blame but the community didn't help me fast in a healthy way.
What people don't realize is young people needed to sleep if you look at videos from the medical industry that young people need to sleep and eat and they were these people were following a man and not God they were replacing God violating the Ten Commandments plus there was no foundations in and on the word so now you're all in recovery and licking your wounds and a lifetime of recovery and people hate IHOPKC and God because of all the abuse and DOGMA! TALK ABOUT CHURCH ABUSE and leadership abuse. Anybody tied in with IHOPKC is a major cult look at what they did with the money who got the money who got the property
Brantley it’s so good to hear your story! My sister and her family were ihop people for about 10 years, just left after the scandalous cult was exposed! She turned into a person that could not even relate to me about real life stuff while she was there. Now she is trying to sort through all of the deception she’d been living in. I personally left the charismatic cult 8 years ago. Just sharing this to let you know you will heal completely (and your wife) from all of it, and yes it takes time, you’re on a great, real, journey now!!! Great talk you guys! So thankful for this channel! Thank you John for all the research and resources you share with us!✌🏻
Sorry that your sister needed to be brainwashed and following a man over God I don't know why we violate the Ten Commandments and the Bible been through a cult myself it's horrible a lot of time to recover like Beth cavete coming out alive article was excellent
@@brantleyksmithwhere are those I've been exposing Church abuse for years we were we knew this was going to happen to IHOPkc group of people and we tried to intervene to no avail hardcore we tried to go to Media to investigate it's amazing the manipulation and control and the dummy down and the brainwashing of the masses by the way created a report Church abuse list due to Mike and Rick Joyner and also Chuck Smith senior and the evil vile wicked Assemblies of God that have an over 60 homosexual pedophile child molestation cover up. The occult hides sin, lives in darkness doesn't live in truth and sweeps sin under the carpet it's every movement I've ever sat in that calls itself a denomination or a Christian Church when it behaves like their father the devil give me one church that's living James 1:27 in its fullness. By the way I collect books on Church abuse I have some horrific ones and the 10 lies the church tells women and the 10 lies men believe based on my former cult. people think Jack Hayford is a Christian, where was the fruit grew up in that movement and you would have gone through the through a completely went from birth to death and they would have never gone through the Bible ever none of the denominations or movements I said and lived the God of the Bible. Didn't see them blessed provide prefer build bring out the best serve it was all diabolical narcissism they were all self-serving cults what your time and money could build their empires and bank accounts in real estate. Was Mike Bickle Mormon or was he the Satanist!
My husband and I have been married for 43 years, married after 3 months lol! Enjoyed hearing this conversation because I can relate to much of the process and it is well articulated. We have definitely disentangled from a lot of this mess. Also, so happy we stuck it out with our commitment to each other. Our relationship with Christ has never stopped being our foundation.
I like your use of the word “detangling” … good descriptive word. Reading and praying the Word of GoD and visiting/exploring various translations, has been very mind clearing … Holy Spirit is a good teacher, very near, not far. 1 John 2:27
Thank you for this first-hand account, I have family members in IHOP-KC, and even after the scandal, they still hope it will be revived. I saw my family devoted to the "movement" and faithfully following and focusing on Mike Bickle.. It has broken my heart.
I’m sorry to hear this Susan. It’s so hard. I have some friends who have left IHOPKC proper but they still believe the stuff. It takes years sometimes decades to work through this stuff. Keep loving them best you can! Reach out if you need any help pointing them in the direction of resources and support.
Eat the meat and spit out the bones. Wow, that’s exactly what I was told. Thanks for sharing that piece. I’m thankful God is helping folks to step away from works based theology. It doesn’t feel works based when you’re in it, but it really is, and the fruit is evident.
First time I went to jefersonville on Easter I went to branhams pyramid grave. I put a Córdoba rose on branhams grave and secured my salvation by doing it!
On Jesus being a historical figure ... even Bart Ehrman, the atheist biblical scholar out of UNC Chapel Hill, contends that no serious historian or biblical scholar doubts the historicity of the actual Jesus.
The house of prayer movement is very good and amazing, I’m at the Upper Room church in Dallas TX. So in spite of the Bickel mess the movement is very good 👍
When I found out Mike's brother was originally a part of the white horse prophecy, I immediately knew that it was a lie and the blue ridge procession was never going to happen.
I'm glad to hear Brantley mention the Grape Prophet by L.S.U. /Lifesavors Underground/Michael Knott! I had that album back when it came out. Sadly, I never really got the message. Years later it would come up in the back of my mind, I even heard Larry Randolph refer to himself as the "English interpreter of English". He was referring to how he would help unpack Bob Jones' prophecies. That was the one track that really stuck out in my memory from that whole album. Around 2008 I really began to ponder if that was what that project was all about. Nobody ever told me & I really had no way to deep dive and search that out in the very early 90's. I was going to ask Brantley if he had any info &/or personal incites on The Ramp with Karen Wheaton & Damon Thompson. It was in Hamilton, Alabama. I know Misty Edwards was involved there for a time following The Call Nashville 7-7-07.
@@brantleyksmith OK yeah! I remember him too from 7-7-07. I have to say I did really enjoy his worship leading. The worship to me was not about who was playing, at that time I had little to no familiarity with anyone. Of course I had heard of Misty, but actually her style was a challenge for me at the time. (She softened over the years) I had an amazing day there at Titan Stadium regardless of the 'program' there were things going on in my heart and life at the time. God really did draw me closer. In retrospect I am glad I had to leave mid-day. I missed the laser shooting into space thing.
@@allthings2allmenI enjoyed so many of those people too. It’s broken my heart to “peek behind the curtain” and see some of these people for who they really are. I missed the space lasers too apparently! We live-streamed it at our church and participated “virtually” 🤣 that was right after I met Eddie James.
Wow, I first heard that meat and bones saying back in 1970 at a very small Assembly of God church in Vacaville CA. After I left off going to church it became a large church and that pastor had been kicked out for some reason that I never knew. I reengaged with that pastor at an even smaller church in Elmira CA in 1990 and he talked me into going to a Basic Life Principles Seminar. I never got too far into that either. I don`t know why I feel as if I missed something in my Christian experience from Jesus People Movement to Pentecostalism, but I feel that if I had stuck to it without backsliding, I may have been happier somehow. I pray and study the Bible daily, but I am unchurched and may be an outcast, a pariah and a modern-day spiritual leper. Oh yeah, I also got involved with a theater ministry in Vacaville in the 2000s run by his daughter and son-in law as well as in my druggy backsliding days his father-in-law would ask me to do landscaping for him that I think was an excuse to witness to me. I did appreciate the Elders concern for me and also enjoyed delicious meals from his garden. He would shed tears for me as he told me he wanted to see me in heaven. I am tearing up right now.
@@TROYPETERSON-q5x What does that, although true, have to do with anything I said. I have no problem with Jesus, it`s Christians that push me away. My last word.
I'm so sorry you went through all that. Jesus has never stopped loving you. It sounds like you already have a relationship with him. If you can find a spiritually healthy church and start over, he would never tell you no. He gives people however many chances they need. You are loved by God!!
@@lesliewells-ig5dl I am done with churches. I am done with people. I am done with friends. You can only kick a dog so many times before he either runs away or bites. Why do you so called Christians insist on assuming that you know more about God and the Bible than a 74-year-old who has done more Bible study than most of the Christians in churches who scoot down the pew to get some distance away from him? Do you not think that he is so dense that he does see the people whisper and point at him? Why don`t you read the story of Jesus, the Pharisees and the woman of the streets who came and washed his feet? How about the Pharisee in prayer who was pointing out to God how righteous he was and looking down his nose at the poor man who cried to God, "Have mercy on me a sinner"? Why would I go back for more pain? I can pray in my "closet" better than I can with a room full of hypocrites. Sorry if that offends you but been there done that and over it. If Jesus has a group of people who want me around than He will send them to me because I am done looking. This is really my last word on the subject. Prayer is always the best way to deal with me. Talk is cheap.
Everyone’s journey is unique. I think we all deal with the fear of missing out emotions. I still have that with IHOPKC occasionally. I often make the joke about the prophecy about the chiefs winning the Super Bowl and then revival happening. Every time Patrick Mahomes wins a game I get a little scared 🤣 Once I quit worrying about having my beliefs perfect and started taking care of myself and my happiness, life has been way more enjoyable. Seems I can help a lot more people now too. Keep on keeping on!
Just because someone leaves a church, especially an abusive or unhealthy church, does not mean they are a goat or a tare. It could mean they are more spiritual than the leadership of that church.
We expect to be persecuted by the enemy, whoever that might be. But we should not have to be persecuted by our brothers and sisters. And, in so many cases, it is coming dfrom the church itself.
Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power, in holy garments; from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours. The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, “You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.” Psalm 110 this is God's word
@joshuI often wonder the same thing. So many comments seem so random. And people don't bother explaining what they are saying or what it had to do with the video. Even if you ask them they dint bother responding. I've often wondered why. aclark4706
Great interview- conversation! This…cult vocabulary fits some WOF “ churches” , likewise. Omy. My childhood “ end time event” was when JFKennedy was elected😆 31:44
I believe that if I make it to Heaven, I will be a janitor. I am very skilled at waxing and polishing large hard flooring. Backsliding can be healed but I think there may be eternal consequences besides the temporal ones that I cannot escape, a Branded Man. Just a feeling, not a doctrine based on scripture.
@@wleebraz As I understand it, our sins are covered by the blood, nailed to the cross (Col 2:14 He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the cross.) If we are in Christ, our judgment will not be based on our sins; rather on our good works. (1 Cor 3:9 For we are God’s coworkers. You are God’s field, God’s building. 10 According to God’s grace that was given to me, I have laid a foundation as a skilled master builder, and another builds on it. But each one must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what has been laid down. That foundation is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work. 14 If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.) I don't know about you, but I've wasted a lot of years.
You’d think we would’ve snuffed that out. If I remember correctly he would often refer to the verses about reaching for the prize and receiving the crown of life. It was hotly debated but it was engrained in the culture.
Hey John! Since it sounds like you're not a big fan of The Case for Christ, are there any apologetics books you do recommend? I was brought to IHOP as a child and was deeply involved there for about 20 years, so I have much "detangling" to do :-)
I really like Walter Martin’s work. Kingdom of the Cults, and his interviews on RUclips. Also liked the last book I read from Hank Hanegraaff. I’m not in full agreement with everything they say, but didn’t get the “deception” vibes I got from Strobel
@LeavingtheMessage also, this is not to say Strobel is a “deceiver”. It’s just so poorly written and in mocking tones with no real substance that it makes him sound like a fraud to anyone with real questions.
That statement proves that you know zero about how cults operate, about coercive mind control, or any of the psychology of cults. ZERO!!! They are more ways to keep a person prisoner than chaining them or locking them in a cage.
Question: we went to a central California IHOP for about a year. In listening to you talk it just occurred to me, are they all alike? In the time we were there, we had a Christmas party. The chairs were moved out. They hung a disco ball. Everyone was in tuxes and ball gown type dresses. Lots of dancing to contemporary secular music. Wine was served and ran pretty heavy as the night wore on. Not long after that I went to a women's Bible Study. Many of them were hopped up on antidepressants, and there was a lot of wine. We left after that. It's the only IHOP I've ever been to. I was Foursquare for years then went to a CEA..which is similar to Foursquare. Is this normal for an IHOP?
John has talked about Bernice Hicks before. He interviewed a lady that went to church there. It would be under the play list Our Stories, but I don't know her name.
@@estherj.tolbert8854I guess I'm confused. They aren't talking about it at that timestamp. It's been a while since I watched the video. That's ok. Those fake people fake all ki ds of things.
@@lesliewells-ig5dl by the way, idk why that time stamp was on my message. I’m not super familiar with RUclips chats yet. Maybe I’ll get the hang of it soon.
Lee Strobol’s book The case for Christ is a great book for 99% of people, coming at evidence from all sides. However, if you demand much deeper scholarship, then he did write a much more dense book in “Evidence that Demands a Verdict.” But to say it can lead to atheism.. you are a bit out there man. In the same vein I guess the same can be said of your own webcasts.
I sort of misspoke because it depends on your position at IHOPKC. If you were a worship leader, musician or singer it was 48hrs a week. 24 in the room and 24 for your “job”. All staff were required 24 in the prayer meetings which was 12, 2hr prayer meetings each week. Then you worked on base in a “job” for 24hrs(at least). Everyone raised support. Some students had part time jobs but not staff. Some families had one spouse work outside ihop but it was frowned upon.
@@brantleyksmith Wow, they regulated your spiritual life like a perpetual boot camp, it sounds like. It sounds terrible. Like all cults, they want to be the only thing in your life.
@@Balaamsasss I get that completely!! They leave themselves an out, they can say we never made anyone fast. But the truth is they did, with system and culture they created and all the pressure that everyone else is doing it. And they teach you that if you don't WANT to do what they say to do there is something really wrong with you and you aren't right with God. Classic cult operation, always maintaining plausible deniability, yet still, in actuality, making you fast.
from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood He made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1 . His work is finished, awaiting for our amen in the unseen reality of faith
@@brantleyksmithOH wow, that is interesting. But you had to pay to live there, even though they were underpaying you, right? Did they even pay minimum wage?
Apologetics is groupthink? Not even close. Give a little more time to asking questions and looking for answers and maybe your opinion on statements like that will begin to change. As a former member of a cult where I live, I’ve said a lot of these same things too - but not all of evangelicalism is a cult. We all understand in part, and there is room in the church for differences on many issues.
I think people went to IHOP to pray and seek God. We on the outside who came for that did not know all the bad stuff going on. You on the inside should have demanded holiness and biblical behavior. Failure on all your parts.
There are examples throughout all of John's videos. If you want examples of how being in the Branham cult messed me up, you could watch my podcast I did with John, it's in the Playlist called Our Stories. Or I will give you some right here. Being in the cult caused me to not to go to college when I was planning to before I joined the cult, it caused me to stay in an abusive marriage. It caused me to be afraid of God and just about everything else for 28 years. Watch a few videos and you will see lots of examples of how these groups destroy llives.
@@cathyschoening8148 The manipulation I experienced in the Branham cult messed up my life in ways that are still affecting me 20 years after I left the cult. That's my example.
Christian apologetics is group think? Read Alvin Plantinga, William Lane Craig, or even Plato. A good grasp of philosophy will solve that problem for you. There's no way God couldn't exist. ❤️
Hey Kirk! I think I was the guilty one there. I think what I was trying to get at is apologetics seems to be more of a defense of current beliefs. I can’t recall the exact phrase I said, but I think apologetics defends group think at times. I’m sure there are exceptions! We had to read William Lane Craig’s apologetics books at IHOPU.
@brantleyksmith thanks for clarifying. I enjoyed the interview. I wasn't trying to be snarky. I just wanted to say that the thinkers that I listed, rightly understood, are the very antithesis of group think. Blessings to you.
@@dashlamb9318 whose definition? The atheists who hold to the artificially contrived and indefensible position of a closed system? The irony would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. But thanks for your input.
Thank so much for these videos! Very important for so many people! I don’t miss one of these videos! Great work. I was part of a cult in the 1970’s, when there was a big Christian commune movement, we were young , 19 years old and even now I am learning so much, processing what we experienced, there was lots of sexual sin, nothing is new under the sun!
I was at ihop and participated for 10 years. Fasting really messed my body up and the problems still are with me.. Im partly to blame but the community didn't help me fast in a healthy way.
Want to share your story?
william-branham.org/site/contact
@@LeavingtheMessageI would love to hear about that, too.
What people don't realize is young people needed to sleep if you look at videos from the medical industry that young people need to sleep and eat and they were these people were following a man and not God they were replacing God violating the Ten Commandments plus there was no foundations in and on the word so now you're all in recovery and licking your wounds and a lifetime of recovery and people hate IHOPKC and God because of all the abuse and DOGMA! TALK ABOUT CHURCH ABUSE and leadership abuse. Anybody tied in with IHOPKC is a major cult look at what they did with the money who got the money who got the property
Brantley it’s so good to hear your story! My sister and her family were ihop people for about 10 years, just left after the scandalous cult was exposed! She turned into a person that could not even relate to me about real life stuff while she was there. Now she is trying to sort through all of the deception she’d been living in. I personally left the charismatic cult 8 years ago. Just sharing this to let you know you will heal completely (and your wife) from all of it, and yes it takes time, you’re on a great, real, journey now!!! Great talk you guys! So thankful for this channel! Thank you John for all the research and resources you share with us!✌🏻
I'm so glad you all got out!!
Thanks Connie! Does your sister know about the support communities on FB?
Sorry that your sister needed to be brainwashed and following a man over God I don't know why we violate the Ten Commandments and the Bible been through a cult myself it's horrible a lot of time to recover like Beth cavete coming out alive article was excellent
@@brantleyksmithwhere are those I've been exposing Church abuse for years we were we knew this was going to happen to IHOPkc group of people and we tried to intervene to no avail hardcore we tried to go to Media to investigate it's amazing the manipulation and control and the dummy down and the brainwashing of the masses by the way created a report Church abuse list due to Mike and Rick Joyner and also Chuck Smith senior and the evil vile wicked Assemblies of God that have an over 60 homosexual pedophile child molestation cover up. The occult hides sin, lives in darkness doesn't live in truth and sweeps sin under the carpet it's every movement I've ever sat in that calls itself a denomination or a Christian Church when it behaves like their father the devil give me one church that's living James 1:27 in its fullness. By the way I collect books on Church abuse I have some horrific ones and the 10 lies the church tells women and the 10 lies men believe based on my former cult. people think Jack Hayford is a Christian, where was the fruit grew up in that movement and you would have gone through the through a completely went from birth to death and they would have never gone through the Bible ever none of the denominations or movements I said and lived the God of the Bible. Didn't see them blessed provide prefer build bring out the best serve it was all diabolical narcissism they were all self-serving cults what your time and money could build their empires and bank accounts in real estate. Was Mike Bickle Mormon or was he the Satanist!
@@Catherine-bo8lb I'm glad you got out!!
My husband and I have been married for 43 years, married after 3 months lol! Enjoyed hearing this conversation because I can relate to much of the process and it is well articulated. We have definitely disentangled from a lot of this mess. Also, so happy we stuck it out with our commitment to each other. Our relationship with Christ has never stopped being our foundation.
I knew Mike Bickel was someone to avoid 20 years ago. It’s the gift of discerning of spirits.
Thanks for another great video, Brantley and John!
I like your use of the word “detangling” … good descriptive word. Reading and praying the Word of GoD and visiting/exploring various translations, has been very mind clearing … Holy Spirit is a good teacher, very near, not far. 1 John 2:27
Unraveling
Thank you for this first-hand account, I have family members in IHOP-KC, and even after the scandal, they still hope it will be revived. I saw my family devoted to the "movement" and faithfully following and focusing on Mike Bickle.. It has broken my heart.
I’m sorry to hear this Susan. It’s so hard. I have some friends who have left IHOPKC proper but they still believe the stuff. It takes years sometimes decades to work through this stuff. Keep loving them best you can! Reach out if you need any help pointing them in the direction of resources and support.
✅ very good interview!!
First they label you, then they dismiss you, then nothing you say can be true, no matter how true it actually is.
Eat the meat and spit out the bones. Wow, that’s exactly what I was told. Thanks for sharing that piece. I’m thankful God is helping folks to step away from works based theology. It doesn’t feel works based when you’re in it, but it really is, and the fruit is evident.
The Ramp is a whole other issue lol. Been there several times. Just more NAR circus without a tent.
I’m sure they probably have a tent 🤪 that place probably deserves its own podcast.
@@brantleyksmith it’s only a matter of time before there is one😆
Great show!
“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
John 14
First time I went to jefersonville on Easter I went to branhams pyramid grave. I put a Córdoba rose on branhams grave and secured my salvation by doing it!
LOL!!!!
More time with Brantley please
On Jesus being a historical figure ... even Bart Ehrman, the atheist biblical scholar out of UNC Chapel Hill, contends that no serious historian or biblical scholar doubts the historicity of the actual Jesus.
I’m aware of that now but I wasn’t when it was first presented to me. Sent me into a spiral!🌀
Extreme fasting is a very effective mind control technique.
The house of prayer movement is very good and amazing, I’m at the Upper Room church in Dallas TX. So in spite of the Bickel mess the movement is very good 👍
I really appreciate this one.
I thank the Lord He brought me out of all of this.
I'm glad you got out!!!
When I found out Mike's brother was originally a part of the white horse prophecy, I immediately knew that it was a lie and the blue ridge procession was never going to happen.
I'm glad to hear Brantley mention the Grape Prophet by L.S.U. /Lifesavors Underground/Michael Knott! I had that album back when it came out. Sadly, I never really got the message. Years later it would come up in the back of my mind, I even heard Larry Randolph refer to himself as the "English interpreter of English". He was referring to how he would help unpack Bob Jones' prophecies. That was the one track that really stuck out in my memory from that whole album. Around 2008 I really began to ponder if that was what that project was all about. Nobody ever told me & I really had no way to deep dive and search that out in the very early 90's.
I was going to ask Brantley if he had any info &/or personal incites on The Ramp with Karen Wheaton & Damon Thompson. It was in Hamilton, Alabama. I know Misty Edwards was involved there for a time following The Call Nashville 7-7-07.
Oh gosh I have been to the RAMP many times. That’s actually part of how I ended up at IHOPKC via connections with Eddie James!
@@brantleyksmith OK yeah! I remember him too from 7-7-07. I have to say I did really enjoy his worship leading. The worship to me was not about who was playing, at that time I had little to no familiarity with anyone. Of course I had heard of Misty, but actually her style was a challenge for me at the time. (She softened over the years) I had an amazing day there at Titan Stadium regardless of the 'program' there were things going on in my heart and life at the time. God really did draw me closer. In retrospect I am glad I had to leave mid-day. I missed the laser shooting into space thing.
@@allthings2allmenI enjoyed so many of those people too. It’s broken my heart to “peek behind the curtain” and see some of these people for who they really are.
I missed the space lasers too apparently! We live-streamed it at our church and participated “virtually” 🤣 that was right after I met Eddie James.
Wow, I first heard that meat and bones saying back in 1970 at a very small Assembly of God church in Vacaville CA. After I left off going to church it became a large church and that pastor had been kicked out for some reason that I never knew. I reengaged with that pastor at an even smaller church in Elmira CA in 1990 and he talked me into going to a Basic Life Principles Seminar. I never got too far into that either. I don`t know why I feel as if I missed something in my Christian experience from Jesus People Movement to Pentecostalism, but I feel that if I had stuck to it without backsliding, I may have been happier somehow. I pray and study the Bible daily, but I am unchurched and may be an outcast, a pariah and a modern-day spiritual leper. Oh yeah, I also got involved with a theater ministry in Vacaville in the 2000s run by his daughter and son-in law as well as in my druggy backsliding days his father-in-law would ask me to do landscaping for him that I think was an excuse to witness to me. I did appreciate the Elders concern for me and also enjoyed delicious meals from his garden. He would shed tears for me as he told me he wanted to see me in heaven. I am tearing up right now.
A true relationship with our Savior brings freedom to love Him because He FIRST LOVED and LOVES us.
@@TROYPETERSON-q5x What does that, although true, have to do with anything I said. I have no problem with Jesus, it`s Christians that push me away. My last word.
I'm so sorry you went through all that. Jesus has never stopped loving you. It sounds like you already have a relationship with him. If you can find a spiritually healthy church and start over, he would never tell you no. He gives people however many chances they need. You are loved by God!!
@@lesliewells-ig5dl I am done with churches. I am done with people. I am done with friends. You can only kick a dog so many times before he either runs away or bites. Why do you so called Christians insist on assuming that you know more about God and the Bible than a 74-year-old who has done more Bible study than most of the Christians in churches who scoot down the pew to get some distance away from him? Do you not think that he is so dense that he does see the people whisper and point at him? Why don`t you read the story of Jesus, the Pharisees and the woman of the streets who came and washed his feet?
How about the Pharisee in prayer who was pointing out to God how righteous he was and looking down his nose at the poor man who cried to God, "Have mercy on me a sinner"? Why would I go back for more pain? I can pray in my "closet" better than I can with a room full of hypocrites. Sorry if that offends you but been there done that and over it. If Jesus has a group of people who want me around than He will send them to me because I am done looking. This is really my last word on the subject. Prayer is always the best way to deal with me. Talk is cheap.
Everyone’s journey is unique. I think we all deal with the fear of missing out emotions. I still have that with IHOPKC occasionally. I often make the joke about the prophecy about the chiefs winning the Super Bowl and then revival happening. Every time Patrick Mahomes wins a game I get a little scared 🤣
Once I quit worrying about having my beliefs perfect and started taking care of myself and my happiness, life has been way more enjoyable. Seems I can help a lot more people now too.
Keep on keeping on!
Good work John 👍
People walking away from the church is not a problem, that is the separation of sheep and goats, wheat and tars.
Just because someone leaves a church, especially an abusive or unhealthy church, does not mean they are a goat or a tare. It could mean they are more spiritual than the leadership of that church.
We expect to be persecuted by the enemy, whoever that might be. But we should not have to be persecuted by our brothers and sisters. And, in so many cases, it is coming dfrom the church itself.
A good can become a bad when the Enemy pushes one to extremism.
Or good with the wrong goal can become a bad.
A good can become a bad when the Enemy pushes one to extremism.
Truth mixed in with lies....i.e. a broken clock is accurate twice a day! Best to get a functional working clock!
Some of these guys had trouble being right once in their life 😂
@@brantleyksmithLOL!!! So true, unfortunately.
Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power,
in holy garments; from the womb of the morning,
the dew of your youth will be yours.
The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind,
“You are a priest forever
after the order of Melchizedek.”
Psalm 110
this is God's word
How does this do with this podcast?
@joshuI often wonder the same thing. So many comments seem so random. And people don't bother explaining what they are saying or what it had to do with the video. Even if you ask them they dint bother responding. I've often wondered why. aclark4706
Great interview- conversation! This…cult vocabulary fits some WOF “ churches” , likewise. Omy. My childhood “ end time event” was when JFKennedy was elected😆 31:44
a friend of mine said..'.Normal.. a setting on a dryer'
?? How you live in this life determines your proximity to Jesus in the age to come ?? Trying to imagine what scripture Bickle based that on.
I believe that if I make it to Heaven, I will be a janitor. I am very skilled at waxing and polishing large hard flooring. Backsliding can be healed but I think there may be eternal consequences besides the temporal ones that I cannot escape, a Branded Man. Just a feeling, not a doctrine based on scripture.
@@wleebraz As I understand it, our sins are covered by the blood, nailed to the cross (Col 2:14 He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the cross.)
If we are in Christ, our judgment will not be based on our sins; rather on our good works. (1 Cor 3:9 For we are God’s coworkers. You are God’s field, God’s building. 10 According to God’s grace that was given to me, I have laid a foundation as a skilled master builder, and another builds on it. But each one must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what has been laid down. That foundation is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work. 14 If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.)
I don't know about you, but I've wasted a lot of years.
You’d think we would’ve snuffed that out. If I remember correctly he would often refer to the verses about reaching for the prize and receiving the crown of life. It was hotly debated but it was engrained in the culture.
WMB taught that about New Jerusalem too. I don't know about heaven.
@SunnySideup-ks7ot LOL!! Yeah, really!! Maybe h3 can hang out with WMB.
FOG ! Fear Obligation Guilt. True to abusive relationships and Cults!
Critical thinking will not interefere with believing in something true.
Hey John! Since it sounds like you're not a big fan of The Case for Christ, are there any apologetics books you do recommend? I was brought to IHOP as a child and was deeply involved there for about 20 years, so I have much "detangling" to do :-)
I really like Walter Martin’s work. Kingdom of the Cults, and his interviews on RUclips. Also liked the last book I read from Hank Hanegraaff. I’m not in full agreement with everything they say, but didn’t get the “deception” vibes I got from Strobel
@LeavingtheMessage also, this is not to say Strobel is a “deceiver”. It’s just so poorly written and in mocking tones with no real substance that it makes him sound like a fraud to anyone with real questions.
You can’t call it a cult when you have free will to stay or leave!!
That statement proves that you know zero about how cults operate, about coercive mind control, or any of the psychology of cults. ZERO!!! They are more ways to keep a person prisoner than chaining them or locking them in a cage.
Question: we went to a central California IHOP for about a year. In listening to you talk it just occurred to me, are they all alike? In the time we were there, we had a Christmas party. The chairs were moved out. They hung a disco ball. Everyone was in tuxes and ball gown type dresses. Lots of dancing to contemporary secular music. Wine was served and ran pretty heavy as the night wore on. Not long after that I went to a women's Bible Study. Many of them were hopped up on antidepressants, and there was a lot of wine. We left after that. It's the only IHOP I've ever been to. I was Foursquare for years then went to a CEA..which is similar to Foursquare. Is this normal for an IHOP?
No. You went to a church full of tares. They're everywhere.
I would love to hear you discuss the ramp in ole Hamilton. I was a ramp kid and serious Damon follower as a teenager
What is the ramp?
@@lesliewells-ig5dl ruclips.net/video/aNvRo8gFx7A/видео.html
Damon still has a church in the Carolina’s from what I know and now the Ramp is all over the place. UK, TN, AL that I know of.
@@brantleyksmith Cool!!!
Christ gospel church is the same exact way!Hicks is a branch off of Branham,plz talk more about her and her cult!!
John has talked about Bernice Hicks before. He interviewed a lady that went to church there. It would be under the play list Our Stories, but I don't know her name.
I don’t want a marriage relationship out side of Christ.
Shelley doing sere training for the army lol
John, what is a “ falsetto” 52:09 voice? I am so curious! Is that faking the anointing on the voice or what?
What falsetto voice?
@@lesliewells-ig5dl The one he mentioned in this video….
@@estherj.tolbert8854I guess I'm confused. They aren't talking about it at that timestamp. It's been a while since I watched the video. That's ok. Those fake people fake all ki ds of things.
@@lesliewells-ig5dl It was during the part about Axel Rose.
@@lesliewells-ig5dl by the way, idk why that time stamp was on my message. I’m not super familiar with RUclips chats yet. Maybe I’ll get the hang of it soon.
Lee Strobol’s book The case for Christ is a great book for 99% of people, coming at evidence from all sides. However, if you demand much deeper scholarship, then he did write a much more dense book in “Evidence that Demands a Verdict.” But to say it can lead to atheism.. you are a bit out there man. In the same vein I guess the same can be said of your own webcasts.
People had to commit to 40 hours a week in the prayer room? How did people earn a living and do that too?
I sort of misspoke because it depends on your position at IHOPKC. If you were a worship leader, musician or singer it was 48hrs a week. 24 in the room and 24 for your “job”. All staff were required 24 in the prayer meetings which was 12, 2hr prayer meetings each week. Then you worked on base in a “job” for 24hrs(at least). Everyone raised support. Some students had part time jobs but not staff. Some families had one spouse work outside ihop but it was frowned upon.
@@brantleyksmith Wow, they regulated your spiritual life like a perpetual boot camp, it sounds like. It sounds terrible. Like all cults, they want to be the only thing in your life.
Is it really scriptural to have fasting imposed on others? Isn't it supposed to be voluntary?
It was always voluntary but there was unavoidable social pressure that anyone would feel if they didn't participate.
@@Balaamsasss I get that completely!! They leave themselves an out, they can say we never made anyone fast. But the truth is they did, with system and culture they created and all the pressure that everyone else is doing it. And they teach you that if you don't WANT to do what they say to do there is something really wrong with you and you aren't right with God. Classic cult operation, always maintaining plausible deniability, yet still, in actuality, making you fast.
@@lesliewells-ig5dlexactly!
from Jesus Christ the faithful witness,
the firstborn of the dead,
and the ruler of kings on earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
He made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father,
to him be glory and dominion forever and ever.
Amen.
Revelation 1
.
His work is finished, awaiting for our amen in the unseen reality of faith
amen
It is wrong to live together. Is the Bible cast off?
Just holding space for those who may believe differently! We are all in different places on the journey.
@@brantleyksmith I really like that mindset. That's a good way to phrase it.
I'll probably have to steal that! LOL!!! @@brantleyksmith
It sounds like thay had a stranglehold on you guys!!! Disagree and you will lose your salary??
Did the interns live in a dorm?
Hernhutt Apartments were next door to the prayer room and owned by IHOPKC.
@@brantleyksmithOH wow, that is interesting. But you had to pay to live there, even though they were underpaying you, right? Did they even pay minimum wage?
Apologetics is groupthink? Not even close. Give a little more time to asking questions and looking for answers and maybe your opinion on statements like that will begin to change.
As a former member of a cult where I live, I’ve said a lot of these same things too - but not all of evangelicalism is a cult. We all understand in part, and there is room in the church for differences on many issues.
I think people went to IHOP to pray and seek God. We on the outside who came for that did not know all the bad stuff going on. You on the inside should have demanded holiness and biblical behavior. Failure on all your parts.
You keep talking about the manipulation how it’s messed people up, but give examples
There are examples throughout all of John's videos. If you want examples of how being in the Branham cult messed me up, you could watch my podcast I did with John, it's in the Playlist called Our Stories. Or I will give you some right here. Being in the cult caused me to not to go to college when I was planning to before I joined the cult, it caused me to stay in an abusive marriage. It caused me to be afraid of God and just about everything else for 28 years. Watch a few videos and you will see lots of examples of how these groups destroy llives.
@@cathyschoening8148 The manipulation I experienced in the Branham cult messed up my life in ways that are still affecting me 20 years after I left the cult. That's my example.
Christian apologetics is group think? Read Alvin Plantinga, William Lane Craig, or even Plato. A good grasp of philosophy will solve that problem for you. There's no way God couldn't exist. ❤️
Interesting conclusion, friend. What makes you think that Christian Apologetics is "group think?"
Hey Kirk! I think I was the guilty one there. I think what I was trying to get at is apologetics seems to be more of a defense of current beliefs. I can’t recall the exact phrase I said, but I think apologetics defends group think at times. I’m sure there are exceptions! We had to read William Lane Craig’s apologetics books at IHOPU.
Plato was not a Christian. All Christianity is "Group Think" by definition.
@brantleyksmith thanks for clarifying. I enjoyed the interview. I wasn't trying to be snarky. I just wanted to say that the thinkers that I listed, rightly understood, are the very antithesis of group think. Blessings to you.
@@dashlamb9318 whose definition? The atheists who hold to the artificially contrived and indefensible position of a closed system? The irony would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. But thanks for your input.