This is such an important conversation. When I read Einstein, I saw his struggle with the Big Bang. Hawkins, too. The closer you look at nature, the more intelligent design reveals itself. Thank you for the extensive revelation.
This is an amazing walk through of the hundreds of books I read during college that solidified my understanding of how science proves God’s existence. Thanks for this Matt and Dr. Bergsma!
@tombullish3198 As a Christian myself, it's also uninformed, too. Science doesn't "prove" things. God is also a topic within Metaphysics, which is beyond the domain of science. So, science can't tell us anything about whether God exists or not. Only philosophy can. That's not a knock against apologetics, it's just not putting up with Scientism.
Very true that the more advanced you become in a field of expertise the more you realize how little you know. It's one of the reasons why a little bit of knowledge can sometimes be a dangerous thing.
Isn't it weird how confident Bergsma sounds in these arguments if this is the case? Sounds like he's made up his mind in stark contrast to most of the professionals in these fields, and confidently so. And weirdly aligns perfectly with all of the popular criticisms put forth by the Discovery Institute.
More important to realize is: The more credentials someone obtains, the more they become accustomed to being treated as if they're the one with the answers. Pride very easily follows. Much of the time, when PhDs say, "the more advanced you become in a field, the more you realize you don't know" they're ironically saying this from a prideful perspective. Because they say it as if one must have a PhD to truly be humble. Which isn't true at all. No credentials are needed for humility and they usually result in pride, not humility.
Yes! Came home from a quick trip with my family and all the kids were relaxed. I sat down in my living room, grabbed the remote, and realized I don't watch anything. Turned the thing off.
Thank you, Matt, for having Dr. Bergsma on again. He is my favorite of your guests, after the exorcists, and possibly Fr. Andrew with his exuberance (and my fascination) over the Sacred Shroud. ☺️
I intellectually entertained the new atheist movement right before my conversion to catholicism in high school. This whole podcast just sent me back to my cringe middle school and high school freshmen self. Praise be to God that He is evident in the natural philosophies of science because it led me straight to Him.
@@John_Six He didn't say he was a scientist himself but he pretends to be well read on those subjects when he clearly isn't. He doesn't know the basic arguments and has a clear agenda. The whole ID movement seems dishonest and coward. It started as a way to bypass the prohibition of teaching religion at American (and some other places) schools. I'm a believer and don't need to hide that. It is also clear that ID folks don't imply that their designer could be space aliens or that we live in a simulation. He claims to have enough knowledge to debunk evolution, which is wrong. Clint's Reptiles YT channel has a great video on evolution, where he shows what would need to be discovered to falsify it and also shows all evidence for it plus counter arguments against those arguments brought forward by anti-evolution people. The follow up video, in which he discusses the reactions on his video, also showed the cultish behsviour of many atheists. Clint had already expected insults from the ethically unhinged part of the creationism movement but he was surprised by the insults and hate he got from atheists, who had previously enjoyed his evolution, phylogeny and exotic pet keeping videos. They were so hateful because he revealed that he is actively religious (praying, going to church etc.) and that statement alone made him their enemy. Darwin discovered natural selection and "random" mutation (random just from s purely methodologically naturalist perspective) based evolution. The first type genetic inheritance mechanism was discovered by the monk Mendel
@@SteppingStone445 agreed! There is such incredible depth of knowledge in each episode, that it's difficult to absorb it fully in only one watch/listen. There are many that I've been through more than once.
Wow, I have had alot of this stuff floating around in my head in bits and pieces for years, but to hear it laid out and explained from A to Z was incredible. Bravo for having the conversation and allowing all of us to listen in, thank you very much and God bless both of you.
@niklaswikstrom78 this use to be my stock response as well. I could never imagine an atheist becoming religious. But I now realize that is just the ego talking.
@@niklaswikstrom78 to apply the principal of charity to OP here, I think it's fair to ask you this question: On what grounds do you confidently declare that, correct or incorrect in their beliefs, OP was not an atheist at some point in their life? That would require an immense amount of knowledge regarding a person's (and in this case, a very specific online stranger's) life that I am doubtful you have on hand. Could you explain your conclusion to me?
I so appreciate Dr Bergsma's knowledge, his willingness to share it, and his ability to TEACH and communicate so well to us. Thank you for being understandable!
Yeah but...wasn't the video titled "how science proves God"? When did that happen? I lasted _thirty minutes_ and they still hadn't really started talking about evidence of a god (relying on detections of reality (evidence) to know reality is what we call "science").
@@sandramckeehan5679 Did I miss it? Really try to find a timestamp where evidence of a god was presented. Because thirty mins in it sure seems like this is one of those "cheerleading" theist videos where they still don't have any actual evidence of a god, but some guy showed up to say sciency words, and the vid's titled "proves God" so they just ignore the details of how *science definitely doesn't prove God currently.*
@@sandramckeehan5679 So I guess I didn't miss it, given the lack of response? So then do you agree we shouldn't believe in gods because nobody (including Bergsma) can demonstrate a god exists?
@@majmage Depend on what is your definition on God. A skyDaddy, then no, science can not prove that. an the other had if you definition of God , is a life force, then yes, science can prove that life does not come from non life, and a conscience being, can not come from a non-conscience. the more we know about science, the more impossible all of this seems. science is proving that there is a mind, a designer, a force, that has fine tuned the universe for life, but why, who, what, I don't' know but enjoying the journey, I think we all will fine out sooner or later.
First time hearing of Dr. Bergsma! He is one of the most enjoyable people to listen to. Intelligent, succinct, thoughtful, easy to understand! I watch a lot of these type of podcast, and he is by far one of the top three easy to understand and respectful if I was going share an video with a non-believer. I think John Lennox and Stephen Meyer might be the other two lecturers I would feel comfortable sharing with non Christian’s.
What a small world…I dated Dr Bergsma niece for about a year. Crazy to think the more and more my faith grew now I listen to this guy and Am 100x more religious and faithful than when I was younger full circle moment 🤔
Such a great conversation! I knew Bergsm was a great scripture scholar, but I had no idea he was so well educated on atheism and science. I am even more impressed now. Thanks Matt!
Y’all have to bring on Kenneth Miller! He’s awesome: an evolutionist, cell biologist, professor at Brown, author of several textbooks and nonfiction books, expert witness, and devout Catholic.
@@johnbrion4565 The difference is that theistic evolution isn't actually random but merely appears so. For God, the outcome is clear. Regarding the pure science of the physical world, it is kinda the same evolution (Dawkins believes a specific theory that evolution only happens at the gene level while most hold to the multi level selection) but atheists reject anything beyond the physical world.
Yay!! I am so glad you are having Dr. Bergsma on again. He might be my favourite guest which is saying something considering that there have been so many excellent people on Pints. Everyone please go watch the other episodes with the Dr. if you haven't already!
We can heap concepts upon intellectual concepts and grin at each other across a table, knowingly But *One Absolute Truth* will always prevail, God's ways are not our ways
Our Father, Who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen. Our Father, Who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen. Our Father, Who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.
Amazing show!!! Will share with my older kids who don’t see how Christianity can be compatible with science. And it’s a bit adorable that these very Holy people don’t know Breaking Bad made Heisenberg infamous 🤗
Thank you for this episode!!! I’ve heard so much about the Kalam argument and fine tuning, but I’ve never fully understood what those were until now. So helpful
@@PoppinPsinceAD33 Oh yes, there is another miraculous image with Mary and baby Jesus imprinted all the way through a large stone. I can’t remember what country it’s in but check that out if you haven’t seen it. It’s supernatural in origin like the Thilma of our lady of Guadalupe.
I'm not an expert on anything, but somehow I find myself living in the Galilee for a reason. My whole life has been nothing but a miracle, and the reward I have through a beautiful family is a testament of my devotion for Him. Even the tragedy in my life I was able to turn it in a way to put me on his path. I only intuitively know about science, but my awareness of God's presence is such that it cannot be ignored. He promised not just life but life in abundance and that's what I got. Yeshua has ROI, invest in him, but you must be prepared to be baptised by fire as a first cleansing step. Blessings to all who believe without seeing
I don't know how many times I've said this, so I apologize for repeating myself, 😅 but this is quite possibly one of your very best, most interesting episodes. I can't possibly say enough about how much I enjoyed this. In addition to Matt, Dr. Bergsma is one of my favorite people and his depth of knowledge is incredible. Please have him back again! Lastly, we are praying for the recovery of his son, Francis. 🙏
Thankyou for this. Dr Bergsma is a firm favourite. I have Fr Spitzers book and it's great, but the audio version of it is easier to follow for some weird reason. Dr Bergsma makes quite complicated concepts easy to follow......it's the power of the 'stick man'. Wonderful teacher ❤ Would love to see Dr Bergsma, Jimmy & Matt in a very cool long form discussion on the topics discussed here too one day. Thanks again 👍
1:14:28 to 1:18:25 Matt, if you haven't you should read Brant Pitre's Jesus the Bridegroom: The Greatest Love Story Ever Told. Thank you Dr. Bergsma, for your knowledge of Scripture to help Matt along.
This is one of my top videos to watch. So fascinating and concise across a range of scientific topics that kept plaguing me on a proper answer to a lot of family and friends that throw science at me with God in question. I found fr john breck Beyond These Horizons, Quantum Theory and Christian Faith A good read too on this subject.
Hi, Matt! Could you please interview Trent Horn again soon? Also, was wondering if you saw Trent Horn's video today, "The Emptiness of 'Political Christianity"? I think it's really helpful for many people. Been praying for you and your family in my daily Rosary. God bless you. Hope you have a light-filled peaceful blessed day!
I recently had a discussion with an atheist about free will. His premise was that, according to the Bible, God knows our entire lives before we were born ,and therefore we do not actually have free will. My rebuttal was that God has infinite wisdom and he knows the infinite possibilities of what could or could not happen based on our actions. For example, if I came to a fork in the road, God already knows where the road may lead me in each direction. However God may not necessarily know which road I will take because he has given me free will. Could the multiverse be what could have happened if our choices were made differently? It might not be what is present, however what could have been may still exist within God's wisdom. He may even show us when we die what could have been if we had chosen to do his will or what did happen because we did do his will.
Interesting stuff. Just because God knows what choices I will make, does not mean it is not 100% my choice! Free will is an awesome gift. Sadly, so many of us go down wrong paths. May God guide us all.
The more we learn about the world through science the more complicated it appears, thus it becomes less and less likely that the ultimate explanation of everything is randomness
I am a geologist trained in paleontology and to be honest Bergsma's argument about the ediacaran compared to cambrian fauna does just fall flat on it's face. Darwin's doubt is very selective in the evidence it puts forth and just handwaves away preservation biases like it's nothing. More and more we see examples of this "complex" life before the Cambrian, the existance of small shelly fossils for example show firmly that molluscs and brachipods were present in the Ediacharan. Further more this also puts the origin of Bilateria as well as the split between Protostomes and Deuterostomes firmly in the Precambrian, like molecular clock studies predict which ofc is a whole line of evidence completely ignored. You also see an already complex level of niece partitioning in the precambrian with nectonik, benthic and infaunal organisms. We also have precambrian fossils that show clear signs of predation. The Cambrian "explosion" is notable in that it is represented by two insanely high quality lagerstatte which show an incredible biodiversity, we just lack simmilar earlier locations. But in essence Darwin's doubt whole premise is built upon these 2 sites which is an insanely shakey foundation to build any argument on. For anyone who wants read up on this more I'd reccomend the overview article and book review of Darwins doubt " the Cambrian explosion: How Much Bang for the Buck?" By prof. Ralph Stearley.
I am SUPER fasinated to hear there were mollucks before the Cambrian. Were sponges not the first animals to evolve then? This argument wasn't making sense to me, and I'm super glad to see it addressed in the comments. Ty!
I felt so.. cheated? Lied to? I paid so close attention to the origin of life classes, only for me to find out today that most of what we were taught in school was pseudoscience? Thank you so much, Dr. Bergsma.
The beauty of making statements about the past is that the past never raises its voice to disagree. That so many people blithely reify these ideas boggles the mind.
It was the "four horsemen of new atheism" that made me sway away from God as a young adult. Glad to say 12 years later God is back in my life, and I'm happier than ever.
Is there a list of all the sources Dr. Bergsma cites? Particularly the book he mentions by Fr. Spitzer. I’m searching for ways to help my 33 year old son, who has sadly left the church and embraced liberalism. He holds these beliefs that are so alien to me and my husband. Thank the LORD and St. Monica, he spends time with us and all our family every Sunday, AFTER we get home from Mass. He is a wonderful husband and father. He has genius level intellect, like my Dad. I wish my Dad were here to gently debate the existence of God with him, but for now I pray and look for videos/books that might help him find the Truth if he ever agrees to watch/read them.
18:50 *is* the insurmountable barrier. "We would like to pursue that idea *farther back in time* ..." belies that mindset that simply won't allow a person the freedom of letting God do it.
I couldn’t do a dissertation at Notre Dame in 2012 because they had no professors in philosophy. It was to be on a really consequential subject that now science like Dawkins and others are catching up with on “The relational cause that is above and through all other causes.” 12 years later!
Fell asleep listening to this pod and dreamt about making Pal Metal Ingot (a material used in the game Palworld), which could be changed to “God Material” when finished kindling. The cool thing about changing ‘Pal Metal Ingot’ to ‘God Material’ is that God Material can be used to create ANYTHING… it just took way longer to do. My dream logic brain chose Pal Metal Ingot because I needed spheres now (object in the game needed to catch pals/monsters), having no desire for more than what I needed in the moment. I know it was the pod because when I woke, they were talking subatomic particles. What a fun ride 😂❤ definitely gave this another listen, fully awake lol
You should have on Fr. Nicanor Austriaco, he's a Dominican and biologist who would articulate the theistic evolution position really well. He spoke at Hillsdale when I was a student there
Josiah is no longer going by Thrsdy. This was shared on his Discord: "TLDR: Please do not call me Thursday that is not who I am or ever was. Hey gang, thank you all for supporting my streaming hobby! I figured since the name change will affect you I will give you an explanation. Please don’t see this as sympathy fishing (I actually do not want to talk about it with you guys at all bc I have real life friends that know me for that). I struggle with a lot of pretty strong loneliness, feelings of inadequacy, and negative self talk/thought(I’m aware that phrase has been “leftistized” but in my case it’s accurate I insult myself often and severely). At the beginning “Thursday” was a way to protect my identity. At some point it also became a LARP of me playing a caricature of myself for the camera. Once my identity was actually out for those who looked hard enough only the second remained. The LARP morphed into me getting to be this caricature when I was at work instead of being me. I was doing it bc Thrsdy was “loved” (appreciated) bc he was insanely adequate, competent, and funny. Being Thursday allowed me to disconnect from myself. I see a therapist once a week, and have recently been prescribed adderall. A lot of the reasons I felt disconnected seem to have been symptoms of my ADHD that I thought were vices. (The easiest example for others to grasp is this: I hated what I perceived as laziness in myself, but since starting meds I’ve realized I wasn’t lazy I was actually incapable of focusing and working like other people.) I’ve tossed Thursday away bc I do not want to LARP. I do not want to escape being Josiah. I’d love to be able to be called Thursday and have the name of a character that I saw as a friend and twin soul in some very hard times, but I cannot anymore separate the name from the coping mechanism it became. So the name is no more. I want to be me. I want to fix me. I want to be Josiah even when i don’t want to be Josiah I don’t want to pretend to be anyone else to run from my problems. I apologize for being sappy and soft if it makes you uncomfortable All that to say I may stream less bc I need to invest more in MY life and less in Thursday’s popularity or admiration"
Thursday, from what i heared Matt say, your name seems to be Josiah. Please use your given name more, because it is a beautiful name you received from God that seems to mean "God supports". What a continual beautiful testimony would that be to use your name also here.
The multiverse argument falls prey to the ontological argument. If there are an infinite number of universes with different conditions, then a maximally great being exists within that infinite set of universes. Given he is maximally great, there is nothing preventing him from reigning over all infinite universes.
@@will19125 Nifty! I've also not been impressed by Infiniverse escape route- seems an Atheism of the Gaps. Zero evidence of course for other universes. Also non sequitur: even if there are infinite universes who's to say they have different physical constants as if mutually exclusive between universes. I thought Atheists were the ones who accepted reality based on data we have but some seem to live in a Star Trek episode
3:13:40 Hugh Ross talks about this. Scientists need to integrate their fields to come to the right interpretation of the data. Dr. Bergsma your lay explanation of these topics is impressive. You've done your reading.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Please pray for Dr Bergsma's son. He was recently hospitalized and is very ill.
Prayed! Thank you for asking!
Lord please bless & protect the Bergsma family, and heal his precious son. Amen 🙏
St. Padre Pio, please intercede for Dr. Bergsma's son!
Amen 🙏
Dr. Bergsma's is helping to strengthen our faith. May God the Almighty help his son to recover.
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Oh I'm so ready. Dr. Bergsma has to be one of the best guests on the show.
1000%
He's probably my favourite.
He’s so chill 😄
+1!
@@jonathanlatta20 I agree whole heartedly. This conversation helped me tremendously in my faith
Dr. BERGSMA!!!! He's my all time favorite professor ever. So blessed by this man
This is such an important conversation. When I read Einstein, I saw his struggle with the Big Bang. Hawkins, too. The closer you look at nature, the more intelligent design reveals itself. Thank you for the extensive revelation.
@@gizzymiko Same here. He is so clear in explaining everything. Super smart guy.
Bergsma is the best at communicating Catholic theology and complex science topics in such a clear straightforward way.
Brilliant! Dr. Bergsma is my favorite guest by far. Will always watch when he’s on! God bless both of you!
This is an amazing walk through of the hundreds of books I read during college that solidified my understanding of how science proves God’s existence. Thanks for this Matt and Dr. Bergsma!
Science doesn't prove anything. Science is always provisional
So while colllege you read am average of 1 book per week for at least 4 years straight? Doesn't sound very believable to me.
@tombullish3198 As a Christian myself, it's also uninformed, too. Science doesn't "prove" things. God is also a topic within Metaphysics, which is beyond the domain of science.
So, science can't tell us anything about whether God exists or not. Only philosophy can.
That's not a knock against apologetics, it's just not putting up with Scientism.
One of the top 3 guests this show has ever invited. I will power through work with this episode today for sure.
Very true that the more advanced you become in a field of expertise the more you realize how little you know. It's one of the reasons why a little bit of knowledge can sometimes be a dangerous thing.
Isn't it weird how confident Bergsma sounds in these arguments if this is the case? Sounds like he's made up his mind in stark contrast to most of the professionals in these fields, and confidently so. And weirdly aligns perfectly with all of the popular criticisms put forth by the Discovery Institute.
More important to realize is: The more credentials someone obtains, the more they become accustomed to being treated as if they're the one with the answers. Pride very easily follows.
Much of the time, when PhDs say, "the more advanced you become in a field, the more you realize you don't know" they're ironically saying this from a prideful perspective. Because they say it as if one must have a PhD to truly be humble. Which isn't true at all. No credentials are needed for humility and they usually result in pride, not humility.
I don't watch Netflix anymore because of these long conversations
Yes! Came home from a quick trip with my family and all the kids were relaxed. I sat down in my living room, grabbed the remote, and realized I don't watch anything. Turned the thing off.
Save the money, gain the knowledge. 😂
@@jp-too cancel all your subscriptions for this free content!
@@jp-too same here haha
I don’t waste money on woke agenda pushers.
It's always a delight when Dr. Bergsma is on.
Thank you, Matt, for having Dr. Bergsma on again. He is my favorite of your guests, after the exorcists, and possibly Fr. Andrew with his exuberance (and my fascination) over the Sacred Shroud. ☺️
What about Dr. Pitre Brant? He is my favorite
I intellectually entertained the new atheist movement right before my conversion to catholicism in high school. This whole podcast just sent me back to my cringe middle school and high school freshmen self. Praise be to God that He is evident in the natural philosophies of science because it led me straight to Him.
Sounds like you were on the right track and then something weird happened.
Dr. John Bergsma is my favorite contemporary scholar and theologian of the faith.
@@John_Six He really is just the whole package.
He certainly is no expert of evolution
@@napoleonfeanor When did he say that he is a scientist?
@@napoleonfeanoronly charlatans would be experts on something so wholly corrupt and fantastical.
@@John_Six He didn't say he was a scientist himself but he pretends to be well read on those subjects when he clearly isn't. He doesn't know the basic arguments and has a clear agenda. The whole ID movement seems dishonest and coward. It started as a way to bypass the prohibition of teaching religion at American (and some other places) schools. I'm a believer and don't need to hide that. It is also clear that ID folks don't imply that their designer could be space aliens or that we live in a simulation. He claims to have enough knowledge to debunk evolution, which is wrong. Clint's Reptiles YT channel has a great video on evolution, where he shows what would need to be discovered to falsify it and also shows all evidence for it plus counter arguments against those arguments brought forward by anti-evolution people. The follow up video, in which he discusses the reactions on his video, also showed the cultish behsviour of many atheists. Clint had already expected insults from the ethically unhinged part of the creationism movement but he was surprised by the insults and hate he got from atheists, who had previously enjoyed his evolution, phylogeny and exotic pet keeping videos. They were so hateful because he revealed that he is actively religious (praying, going to church etc.) and that statement alone made him their enemy.
Darwin discovered natural selection and "random" mutation (random just from s purely methodologically naturalist perspective) based evolution. The first type genetic inheritance mechanism was discovered by the monk Mendel
I just love these types of conversations so much. Actual men having real meaningful conversations.
Watched and rewatched previous episodes with Dr. B. He is so great!
Pints is very rewatchable!
@@SteppingStone445 agreed! There is such incredible depth of knowledge in each episode, that it's difficult to absorb it fully in only one watch/listen. There are many that I've been through more than once.
I rewatch him too!
The best scripture person of this day and age.
"Definitely one of my favorite guests! Let's go, Dr. B!"
Wow, I have had alot of this stuff floating around in my head in bits and pieces for years, but to hear it laid out and explained from A to Z was incredible. Bravo for having the conversation and allowing all of us to listen in, thank you very much and God bless both of you.
This is so fantastic. I'm a former atheist who was sure I knew science, but I never actually got an opposing viewpoint.
@@NM-tl6pe No you’re not.
@niklaswikstrom78 this use to be my stock response as well. I could never imagine an atheist becoming religious. But I now realize that is just the ego talking.
@@NM-tl6pe Nope.
@@niklaswikstrom78 to apply the principal of charity to OP here, I think it's fair to ask you this question:
On what grounds do you confidently declare that, correct or incorrect in their beliefs, OP was not an atheist at some point in their life? That would require an immense amount of knowledge regarding a person's (and in this case, a very specific online stranger's) life that I am doubtful you have on hand.
Could you explain your conclusion to me?
@@niklaswikstrom78oh look. An atheist with nothing constructive to add.
I love Dr. Bergsma! He is brilliant.
I so appreciate Dr Bergsma's knowledge, his willingness to share it, and his ability to TEACH and communicate so well to us. Thank you for being understandable!
Yeah but...wasn't the video titled "how science proves God"? When did that happen? I lasted _thirty minutes_ and they still hadn't really started talking about evidence of a god (relying on detections of reality (evidence) to know reality is what we call "science").
@@majmage Sorry you missed it.
@@sandramckeehan5679 Did I miss it? Really try to find a timestamp where evidence of a god was presented.
Because thirty mins in it sure seems like this is one of those "cheerleading" theist videos where they still don't have any actual evidence of a god, but some guy showed up to say sciency words, and the vid's titled "proves God" so they just ignore the details of how *science definitely doesn't prove God currently.*
@@sandramckeehan5679 So I guess I didn't miss it, given the lack of response? So then do you agree we shouldn't believe in gods because nobody (including Bergsma) can demonstrate a god exists?
@@majmage Depend on what is your definition on God. A skyDaddy, then no, science can not prove that. an the other had if you definition of God , is a life force, then yes, science can prove that life does not come from non life, and a conscience being, can not come from a non-conscience. the more we know about science, the more impossible all of this seems. science is proving that there is a mind, a designer, a force, that has fine tuned the universe for life, but why, who, what, I don't' know but enjoying the journey, I think we all will fine out sooner or later.
I love Dr Bergsma! Such a gifted teacher, this conversation greatly blessed me.
First time hearing of Dr. Bergsma! He is one of the most enjoyable people to listen to. Intelligent, succinct, thoughtful, easy to understand!
I watch a lot of these type of podcast, and he is by far one of the top three easy to understand and respectful if I was going share an video with a non-believer. I think John Lennox and Stephen Meyer might be the other two lecturers I would feel comfortable sharing with non Christian’s.
He has been interviewed on Pints before to talk about biblical archeology. I highly recommend that episode if you have not seen it yet! :)
What a small world…I dated Dr Bergsma niece for about a year. Crazy to think the more and more my faith grew now I listen to this guy and Am 100x more religious and faithful than when I was younger full circle moment 🤔
Such a great conversation! I knew Bergsm was a great scripture scholar, but I had no idea he was so well educated on atheism and science. I am even more impressed now. Thanks Matt!
YES BRÖTHER LET BERGSMANIA COMMENCE
Ive watched this twice-- and I'll watch it again and take notes💝 An Amazing discussion
Y’all have to bring on Kenneth Miller! He’s awesome: an evolutionist, cell biologist, professor at Brown, author of several textbooks and nonfiction books, expert witness, and devout Catholic.
I hope that happens. This interview made me cringe so much
@@napoleonfeanorwhy did it make you cringe?
Doesn’t Kenneth Miller believe in evolution as Dawkins does?
@@johnbrion4565 The difference is that theistic evolution isn't actually random but merely appears so. For God, the outcome is clear. Regarding the pure science of the physical world, it is kinda the same evolution (Dawkins believes a specific theory that evolution only happens at the gene level while most hold to the multi level selection) but atheists reject anything beyond the physical world.
@@napoleonfeanor thanks.
There is nothing more freeing & peaceful to me knowing there is a loving God. I can't imagine a world not believing otherwise . ❤
"Loving god", guess you aren't a Christian then, because I see no love in 1 Samuel 15: 3.
Does your god send people to hell for not believing in him?
@@jamesroberts3642 no he people go to hell as a result of their sins. People choose to reject salvation
@downenout8705 WOW Satan you are a busy boy!
The great anesthesia.
Dr. Bergsma da GOAT fr
I’ve watched rewatched rewatched again and again Dr. Bergsma on PWA. Matt find another slew of subjects to interview Dr. Bergsma. 😊
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 for the healing and complete recovery of Dr. Bergsma’s son.
Absolutely love Dr. Bergsma! 🙏✝️
Yay!! I am so glad you are having Dr. Bergsma on again. He might be my favourite guest which is saying something considering that there have been so many excellent people on Pints. Everyone please go watch the other episodes with the Dr. if you haven't already!
I'm becoming more aware of the power of prayer and the healing God provides. Thank❤ you
We can heap concepts upon intellectual concepts and grin at each other across a table, knowingly
But *One Absolute Truth* will always prevail,
God's ways are not our ways
I’m very much enjoying this conversation !! Thank you both!! I’m a huge Dr. Bergsma enthusiast!! 🙏❤️
Same!!!!
Praying for your son the last few weeks John! Haven’t watched this episode yet but I assume he is better if you are out doing work!
Loved this all! John Bergsma is the best! ❤️💙
Dr. Bergsma always has a perfectly executed tie knot during his appearances on this program. Well done sir!
One of my favorite guests. What a blessing.
I've listened twice now, and need more. Thank you
Yes!!! Me too!
Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done,
on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.
Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done,
on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.
Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy Will be done,
on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.
I love this Channel!!! I am learning soooooo much about God and history, I think it’s subconsciously changing my life for the better
Amazing show!!! Will share with my older kids who don’t see how Christianity can be compatible with science.
And it’s a bit adorable that these very Holy people don’t know Breaking Bad made Heisenberg infamous 🤗
James Tour and Stephen Meyer 👍🏻 Plus Dr John Bergsma!
Thank you for this episode!!! I’ve heard so much about the Kalam argument and fine tuning, but I’ve never fully understood what those were until now. So helpful
Thank you! What a great way to spend three hours!
The scientific analysis of Eucharist miracles alone proves Jesus is God. Great interview Matt! Jesus’s blood type is AB ✝️☦️
Really? I watched Jimmy Akins video on the evidence for these miracles a while ago and it seemed pretty sparse.
@@CollinBoSmith Yes Jimmy’s good but I’ve seen him perform poorly in several debates. There is better apologists out there.
@@CollinBoSmith Look up 21st century Saint named Carlo Acutis. He has a website with a vast amount of information on Eucharist miracles.
The evidence from Eucharist and Mary’s image imprinted on the cactus fiber cloth is also very interesting
@@PoppinPsinceAD33 Oh yes, there is another miraculous image with Mary and baby Jesus imprinted all the way through a large stone. I can’t remember what country it’s in but check that out if you haven’t seen it. It’s supernatural in origin like the Thilma of our lady of Guadalupe.
I'm not an expert on anything, but somehow I find myself living in the Galilee for a reason. My whole life has been nothing but a miracle, and the reward I have through a beautiful family is a testament of my devotion for Him. Even the tragedy in my life I was able to turn it in a way to put me on his path. I only intuitively know about science, but my awareness of God's presence is such that it cannot be ignored. He promised not just life but life in abundance and that's what I got. Yeshua has ROI, invest in him, but you must be prepared to be baptised by fire as a first cleansing step. Blessings to all who believe without seeing
I don't know how many times I've said this, so I apologize for repeating myself, 😅 but this is quite possibly one of your very best, most interesting episodes. I can't possibly say enough about how much I enjoyed this. In addition to Matt, Dr. Bergsma is one of my favorite people and his depth of knowledge is incredible. Please have him back again!
Lastly, we are praying for the recovery of his son, Francis. 🙏
My favorite guest
Thankyou for this. Dr Bergsma is a firm favourite. I have Fr Spitzers book and it's great, but the audio version of it is easier to follow for some weird reason. Dr Bergsma makes quite complicated concepts easy to follow......it's the power of the 'stick man'. Wonderful teacher ❤
Would love to see Dr Bergsma, Jimmy & Matt in a very cool long form discussion on the topics discussed here too one day. Thanks again 👍
My respect for Bergsma just went up even more. Didn't know he had made a special study of this area
This was an amazing interview. Much needed. Thank you Dr. Bergsma and Matt!
You mean high and lifted up an expert in his field for God’s glory amen
Dr B is my fav guest 🙏🏻
1:14:28 to 1:18:25
Matt, if you haven't you should read Brant Pitre's Jesus the Bridegroom: The Greatest Love Story Ever Told.
Thank you Dr. Bergsma, for your knowledge of Scripture to help Matt along.
He went to Ken Ham’s ark. fantastic interview, but his comments are the most telling. Very smart and thoughtful.
I also have Darwin’s Doubt.
i cant wait! bergsmas work has had a profound influence on my relationships here and in heaven
Listened to every minute!
Mind blowing! 🤯
Loved it!
my favorite guest!
This was absolutely incredible.
Brilliant conversation. Thanks.
Dr. Bergsma for president!
This is one of my top videos to watch. So fascinating and concise across a range of scientific topics that kept plaguing me on a proper answer to a lot of family and friends that throw science at me with God in question. I found fr john breck
Beyond These Horizons, Quantum Theory and Christian Faith
A good read too on this subject.
Loved this conversation! The evolution discussion in particular was very enlightening.
Woot!! An amazing guest!
Thanks so much! This was great.
"Common sense interpretation of the facts"..... pray for those who won't even hear the facts.
Hi, Matt! Could you please interview Trent Horn again soon? Also, was wondering if you saw Trent Horn's video today, "The Emptiness of 'Political Christianity"? I think it's really helpful for many people. Been praying for you and your family in my daily Rosary. God bless you. Hope you have a light-filled peaceful blessed day!
Specially unto all HE FED increased in front of HIS EYES. Yet...none came. Chose amnesia. My "AM" thank you for knowing my HEART AND MIND!
Proud to see a fellow TMIY brother!
Only 1 hour in, best show so far. 👍
I recently had a discussion with an atheist about free will. His premise was that, according to the Bible, God knows our entire lives before we were born ,and therefore we do not actually have free will. My rebuttal was that God has infinite wisdom and he knows the infinite possibilities of what could or could not happen based on our actions. For example, if I came to a fork in the road, God already knows where the road may lead me in each direction. However God may not necessarily know which road I will take because he has given me free will. Could the multiverse be what could have happened if our choices were made differently? It might not be what is present, however what could have been may still exist within God's wisdom. He may even show us when we die what could have been if we had chosen to do his will or what did happen because we did do his will.
Interesting stuff. Just because God knows what choices I will make, does not mean it is not 100% my choice!
Free will is an awesome gift. Sadly, so many of us go down wrong paths.
May God guide us all.
That quote from Robert Jastrow is phenomenal.
The more we learn about the world through science the more complicated it appears, thus it becomes less and less likely that the ultimate explanation of everything is randomness
I am a geologist trained in paleontology and to be honest Bergsma's argument about the ediacaran compared to cambrian fauna does just fall flat on it's face. Darwin's doubt is very selective in the evidence it puts forth and just handwaves away preservation biases like it's nothing.
More and more we see examples of this "complex" life before the Cambrian, the existance of small shelly fossils for example show firmly that molluscs and brachipods were present in the Ediacharan. Further more this also puts the origin of Bilateria as well as the split between Protostomes and Deuterostomes firmly in the Precambrian, like molecular clock studies predict which ofc is a whole line of evidence completely ignored.
You also see an already complex level of niece partitioning in the precambrian with nectonik, benthic and infaunal organisms. We also have precambrian fossils that show clear signs of predation.
The Cambrian "explosion" is notable in that it is represented by two insanely high quality lagerstatte which show an incredible biodiversity, we just lack simmilar earlier locations. But in essence Darwin's doubt whole premise is built upon these 2 sites which is an insanely shakey foundation to build any argument on.
For anyone who wants read up on this more I'd reccomend the overview article and book review of Darwins doubt " the Cambrian explosion: How Much Bang for the Buck?" By prof. Ralph Stearley.
You rock
Thank you for sharing this. I respect Dr. Bergsma but his argument seemed a bit "God of the Gaps" to me.
I am SUPER fasinated to hear there were mollucks before the Cambrian. Were sponges not the first animals to evolve then?
This argument wasn't making sense to me, and I'm super glad to see it addressed in the comments. Ty!
so much sophistry
He was my professor for my graduate work. He is a wealth of knowledge and a wonderful man!
Absolutely amazing interview!!!
Engineer here, doing/discussing some of these topics in Physics class.
Please tell me it's fifteen hours long.
rs
This Episode was great
I felt so.. cheated? Lied to? I paid so close attention to the origin of life classes, only for me to find out today that most of what we were taught in school was pseudoscience? Thank you so much, Dr. Bergsma.
The beauty of making statements about the past is that the past never raises its voice to disagree.
That so many people blithely reify these ideas boggles the mind.
It was the "four horsemen of new atheism" that made me sway away from God as a young adult.
Glad to say 12 years later God is back in my life, and I'm happier than ever.
Is there a list of all the sources Dr. Bergsma cites? Particularly the book he mentions by Fr. Spitzer. I’m searching for ways to help my 33 year old son, who has sadly left the church and embraced liberalism. He holds these beliefs that are so alien to me and my husband. Thank the LORD and St. Monica, he spends time with us and all our family every Sunday, AFTER we get home from Mass. He is a wonderful husband and father. He has genius level intellect, like my Dad. I wish my Dad were here to gently debate the existence of God with him, but for now I pray and look for videos/books that might help him find the Truth if he ever agrees to watch/read them.
18:50 *is* the insurmountable barrier. "We would like to pursue that idea *farther back in time* ..." belies that mindset that simply won't allow a person the freedom of letting God do it.
To bring forth clarity, coherence, adequacy, evidence, and witnesses!
But God’s timing is not ours.
Thanks Dr. B for your knowledge and understanding evolutionary theory
Dr Bergsma has such a great memory!
I couldn’t do a dissertation at Notre Dame in 2012 because they had no professors in philosophy. It was to be on a really consequential subject that now science like Dawkins and others are catching up with on “The relational cause that is above and through all other causes.” 12 years later!
Beloved still love my professor!
We exist because of God! Simple and easy enough!
this is one of the best episodes
Fell asleep listening to this pod and dreamt about making Pal Metal Ingot (a material used in the game Palworld), which could be changed to “God Material” when finished kindling. The cool thing about changing ‘Pal Metal Ingot’ to ‘God Material’ is that God Material can be used to create ANYTHING… it just took way longer to do. My dream logic brain chose Pal Metal Ingot because I needed spheres now (object in the game needed to catch pals/monsters), having no desire for more than what I needed in the moment.
I know it was the pod because when I woke, they were talking subatomic particles. What a fun ride 😂❤ definitely gave this another listen, fully awake lol
You should have on Fr. Nicanor Austriaco, he's a Dominican and biologist who would articulate the theistic evolution position really well. He spoke at Hillsdale when I was a student there
YEAH BERGSMA
This interview was far more rewarding than I had anticipated. Thanks, Matt!
I must have missed something: when did Thursday start going by his real name?
I think it was a mistake as it was before they were ready.
This is the comment I was looking for! I was like who is Josiah? By the way Josiah is
Way better than Thursday.
Josiah is no longer going by Thrsdy. This was shared on his Discord:
"TLDR: Please do not call me Thursday that is not who I am or ever was.
Hey gang, thank you all for supporting my streaming hobby! I figured since the name change will affect you I will give you an explanation. Please don’t see this as sympathy fishing (I actually do not want to talk about it with you guys at all bc I have real life friends that know me for that).
I struggle with a lot of pretty strong loneliness, feelings of inadequacy, and negative self talk/thought(I’m aware that phrase has been “leftistized” but in my case it’s accurate I insult myself often and severely). At the beginning “Thursday” was a way to protect my identity. At some point it also became a LARP of me playing a caricature of myself for the camera. Once my identity was actually out for those who looked hard enough only the second remained. The LARP morphed into me getting to be this caricature when I was at work instead of being me. I was doing it bc Thrsdy was “loved” (appreciated) bc he was insanely adequate, competent, and funny. Being Thursday allowed me to disconnect from myself. I see a therapist once a week, and have recently been prescribed adderall. A lot of the reasons I felt disconnected seem to have been symptoms of my ADHD that I thought were vices. (The easiest example for others to grasp is this: I hated what I perceived as laziness in myself, but since starting meds I’ve realized I wasn’t lazy I was actually incapable of focusing and working like other people.)
I’ve tossed Thursday away bc I do not want to LARP. I do not want to escape being Josiah. I’d love to be able to be called Thursday and have the name of a character that I saw as a friend and twin soul in some very hard times, but I cannot anymore separate the name from the coping mechanism it became. So the name is no more. I want to be me. I want to fix me. I want to be Josiah even when i don’t want to be Josiah I don’t want to pretend to be anyone else to run from my problems.
I apologize for being sappy and soft if it makes you uncomfortable
All that to say I may stream less bc I need to invest more in MY life and less in Thursday’s popularity or admiration"
@@andrewosterloh2244 wow! I love Josiah even more!
Good, because I like Josiah WAY better than the name Thursday lol. It suits him better
Thursday, from what i heared Matt say, your name seems to be Josiah. Please use your given name more, because it is a beautiful name you received from God that seems to mean "God supports". What a continual beautiful testimony would that be to use your name also here.
As of July 7th, he will be going by Josiah. He announced on his Discord that he no longer wishes to be called Thrsdy.
@andrewosterloh2244 thanx for letting this know. Cause i don't have discord.
So sad to hear Thursday was fired. New guy seems cool though.
The multiverse argument falls prey to the ontological argument. If there are an infinite number of universes with different conditions, then a maximally great being exists within that infinite set of universes. Given he is maximally great, there is nothing preventing him from reigning over all infinite universes.
@@will19125 Nifty! I've also not been impressed by Infiniverse escape route- seems an Atheism of the Gaps. Zero evidence of course for other universes. Also non sequitur: even if there are infinite universes who's to say they have different physical constants as if mutually exclusive between universes. I thought Atheists were the ones who accepted reality based on data we have but some seem to live in a Star Trek episode
3:13:40 Hugh Ross talks about this. Scientists need to integrate their fields to come to the right interpretation of the data.
Dr. Bergsma your lay explanation of these topics is impressive. You've done your reading.