The guide of Kris and Lisanne, was also a guide of another tourist who was found strangled on a popular tourist Island in Panama. He still guides to this very day…
I thought only 4 of them were killed they were the members of the ND5 gang if I'm not mistaken and the one member there is the son of the tour guide ( Feliciano ) and the sons name is ( Henry )
I always thought this was a shady case but this video is crazy. I definitely think the tour guide has something to do with it based on everything I’ve seen.
Why did Feliciano Gonzalez had to visit the girls host family house after they went missing, he is just a tour guide not a policeman nor a detective. This tour guide had no business being in their room!
They were naïve, sheltered Dutch females, that’s why. They obviously didn’t do any in-depth research into the country and area they were going; and they must have had some erroneous, romanticized perception of Middle and South America and missed the memo about the wide spread corruption, cartels, gangs, poverty and general disregard for human life that plagues Latin America. Of course not all Latino people are bad, but there certainly seems to be a large majority with very questionable morals considering the facts about how much horrid stuff happens on a continual, large scale throughout Mexico on down to Tierra del Fuego in Argentina.
Always found it very sus the tour guide went to check up on a client that didn’t show up for a appointment 🤔 then to go into the room they were staying 🤯 It don’t feel right … it’s creepy!!
Two young girls hiking in the woods alone in Panama.....if I was a crazy stalker/predator these two would be the perfect target! They were definitely brutally murdered!
No evidence of foul play outside of pretty wild speculation and conspiracy. Even the Dutch investigative team and the parents of the girls don't think it was foul play (though they did question the methods of the Panamanian authorities).
@@foleyhuck2344 There is circumstantial evidence - 1.) The deleted picture 509 in the cameras - supposedly this can only be deleted via a computer - where in the world would the girls have access/time to do this if stranded in the jungle? 2.) The placement of evidence- the foot, backpack, pelvic bone - all seemingly placed in puzzling locations to deter investigators from finding out the truth. The backpack is definitely a form of intimidation/joke as the girls belongings were folded up neatly as if to taunt those who would come across it. 3.) The unsuccessful attempts to get into one of the girls phones (possibly after the girls were killed) 4.) Much more if you research it. 5.) Two girls, alone in a jungle - planned a short trip, family re-walked the trails and showed no signs they could’ve gotten lost - unless they trailed off on their own and got “adventurous” off the path. There are other people living in that area and could have seen them as “prey” aka easy targets for rape and murder. Not to mention the drug trafficking and human organ black market... The professional that tested the bones working in Mexico said in an interview, going on the evidence on the bones, he believes the woman were killed and drained as he works in that field and understands what goes on as a result of his work in this country.
There was also a lady who visited that country and area before the girls. She was assaulted by 3 guys and they held her in a hut deep in the jungle. She managed to fight and get away.
Yes I remember this! The girl was hiking, got lost for 3 days and stumbled upon a group of 3 guys and asked for help. The 3 guys attacked her, and took turns graping her. The woman ended up stabbing one of them and got away. She ran for miles, stumbled on a trail and followed it which led her to an Indigenous village. The indigenous people helped her and brought her to authorities in a nearby town. All 3 men were caught and sentenced to 12-15 years in prison. Here’s the kicker, one of the men was apart of the Search Team that was sent out to locate the lost hiker……
@@ronalikumudu5926They are filthy corrupt. Panama often hides these cases from the media and downplays them to protect tourism. Panama is too dangerous if you’re a young female tourist. One tourist was hacked to pieces by an ex-Mexican cartel member who fled Mexico to Panama. He was sentenced to prison, but escaped and is currently on the run in Panama. Avoid that country at all cost.
I know well this case. My own conclusion is that Henry's gang did rape and murder them (there is even a picture of supposedly Lisanne and Kris with them), and his father Feliciano made the cover up. Thinking that this is an accident is just laughable, there are far far too many strange things that happened. You didn't talk much about the super weird events with the missing picture on the camera, and the staged night pictures made later made by the killers. Also the dog story is apparently bullshit, the dog does not appear on any picture, and the dog owners that own a restaurant at the beginning of the trail are shady !
@@EdWard-ie5wn It was maybe an other day, I would guess that they randomly bumped into them. It's also possible that you are right and it's not them on the photo, but redheads are rare in Boquete I suppose. As IMHO it's the gang that killed them, I would not be surprised that it's them on the pic either...
dismembering parts of body is very common in Latin america, hence i lean towards the murder theory. Also all the suspicous deaths of the young guys related to the case. There is no reason to believe it was an accident... no way!
The chance that if they were lost and couldn't be found was very small. At least one of them was still alive and used the cell phone on April 11. The monkey bridge🐒should have been walked by locals or hikers within that period ( 8 to 11 days) and the girls were right below with big SOS sign and other belongings. Also, locals should have already known that there were two missing european women in the area and paid extra attention to the surrounding area. Why no one saw them or any of their items : SOS, flash lights, shorts, branch with bags , etc. I believe because they were not there anymore . They met someone or some ones and were abducted. My theory is foul play. The village woman who found the backpack was lying. No one would walk 4 hours ( return journey) to a remote small river to wash his/her clothings in TWO CONSECUTIVE DAYS and ALONE. She was actually Feliciano's coffee farm employee and instructed to do the show. No eye witness at all . Only she . If she really found the backpack why wasn't she awarded the US$30,000 ? So revealing in itself
Guy jokes about cutting legs off. And they found one girls foot. Thats some creepy stuff. I think its definitely foul play imo. Its possible they got lost and hurt? And just couldn't get help? But i believe its foul play personally.
all people who died, like taxi driver , Osman ect..were killers of kriss and lisanne. Kartel killed them, because they knew, that was their mistake to kill kriss and kramers and they dont want that mens in his gang, who cauntioned police by their actions. Feliciano did max to convince police, that was the accident. He did well. Feliciano got for exchange life of their son. But Kartel was still angry. Feliciano know this gangsters very well, so they dont want to kill him, but if he say something one day, he will maybe dissapear too...
@@HussRisingYT but is it strange about last photos and the deleted photo. Do Kartel go to the woods to make fake photos? How they deleted photo? What about girls tryied 10 days to reach 911 and 112? This case is soo and soo and soo misteriuos... Maybe it has simple explanation, but I doubt we will ever find it out...
Many things should be secured before travelling to South America: 1- Girls should be accompanied by at least the same number of male friends for minimum protection. 2- Always be sure there's a mobile coverage in the jungle before hiking, so you can call for help in case of emergency. If not, then take with you a Talkie Walkie. 3- NEVER trust latin american men that you've just met, unless they are old friends. 4- Try to travel or hike in big numbers. Kidnappers won't attack large groups. They'll fail. 5- Always remember you're visiting a 3rd world country where there's a high crime rate and a lot of corruption even among police. Awareness on this topic is very important. 6- Consider taking with you a self-defense weapon that can be put in your pocket or backpack (a spray, a small hidden stick, a stun gun, etc...). If, despite reading all those recommendations, you're still reluctant to travel to South America, then travel elsewhere. There are dozens of other tropical countries that are much safer and even more beautiful than South America.
@@chrisx5127I don’t understand how these women don’t understand that. Stay out of remote locations. It’s bad enough for men, but for some reason many women believe they’re invincible. This case sad and creepy.
I will never understand why any women would go to a Central American country where laws don't exist to protect you especially if you're a foreigner. Stay home!
They did not have an appointment with him. They got rejected at the school and so they got freetime. They did not considered going only to that trial but on that day they did. Dude got hours to crawl in their private things before calling the police. He is sus in many occasions but none of it is solid evidence directly pointing on him. Also regarding to that many comments here : That girls did not spontainously traveled in a jungle like naive schoolgirls. They booked that trip months before, cleared out bad possibilities and managed to get a volunteers work and a save sleeping space. The school accomondated many students before and was not fishy at all. In the area vanished one or two other people in a timeframe from 20 years. The place is full with tourists and wanderers all the time. 99% go save home. That is why there is a cross on the top of pianista trail to remember only two names: Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers (and not 1000 other names because there is none). There are plenty of videos where people walk that trail. And i say it again: That girls were not dumb. Also you have to go very very far to end in the jungle, the most of the place around is not dangerous and abandoned. If you read carefully the case, adding all together, the photos, the phone data, the weather, the time, the diary, the eyewitnesses, the town, the people, the for and aftermath... you will maybe notice nothing make sense and so the official statement. And if that is probably not what happened, it is also no explanation what they did on that day, when they arrived the trail, how long they have been there, what the weather was etc. And if that makes not much sense the story of "poor girls got lost in jungle" is not verified at all. So please go away from that narrative and for the souls of that two girls: Dont let them remembered as dumb city chicks who had no clue and got lost. They were more of that and there must be a lot more to it.
he may have been the one making the emergency calls the entire time after taking their phones to make it look that they were alive the entire time also why didn't the woman who hosted them in her house call the authorities directly after they didn't come back at night wasn't she the one who told the girls to come back before sundown cos there are stuff happening in that town the women who called the police is also a suspect they may be a small group of human traffickers who were after the girls organs
No, Panama doesn't need to do anything. Western women need to get their heads out of their rear ends and realize the privilege and status of being a women in the West will NOT carry them safely though places like Panama! They should of had husbands to keep them from making dumb decisions like traveling alone in undeveloped countries! GEEZ why does this need to be explained? The audacity of Western women is insane!
This is a good recap of all the latest information. This was a cover up by the authorities for sure. Esp with all the witnesses and suspects showing up dead after the girls disappearance. Ruling it an accident and closing the case to avoid bad publicity for the tourist industry!!!
I’ve read up a lot on this case. Yes, accidents do happen, but it’s truly strange how people will put logic aside bec they would rather not see the evil that exists in the world. The most obvious answer is that they were murdered. Those poor women…
There was not a picture of Kris’s head with blood oozing from the temple. There was a picture of her head where some have insisted there is what appears to be blood on the bottom right corner of the photo. No one has proven if that’s what it was, or what part of her head is even shown.
The script of this case (In this video episode) is so sensationalized and numerous facts are loosely jumbled. This is very sloppy. It is high profile videos like this one that causes so much disinformation about this case over the years.
@@PanamaResearch-uj2xo See, to me it doesn’t look like blood. To me it looks like Lisanne’s hair. Both of their hair. Like they are huddled or lying together, as sad and tragic of an image as that potentially paints.
Clearly authorities do not want this case to be solved, in a previous video that just listed all the facts I already thought that this case wasn't mysterious at all, in no scenario could this ever be an accident. An accident doesn't make your remains scattered all over with such long distances in between, everything they found was planted. This man is definitely involved and he should've never been allowed into their room. Only way I can see this case solved is if the family would hire a private detective, who can uncover some things that local authorities don't want to. Often these gangs or well known families are 'ignored' by the police in cases like this. I hope they didn't have to suffer, but all the emergency calls suggest otherwise. I truly do hope that this case will be solved some time.
I read that Kris Kremer’s parents hired a private investigator and traveled there with them. There is a video on RUclips of the parents taking a hike with Felicio Gonzalez (he look’s uncomfortable and guilty, imo) and they determined, for themselves, that it was near impossible to get lost or fall from any height.
You mean the two women who were beheaded by radical Islamists from Morocco, I can't tell you which is scarier, sadistic gangs in South America or Islamist terrorists..
Hello! Very nice research, I think the girls did the hiking without problems, Feliciano's son Henry seems to be the one who took the girls along with gang members back in the town, I wish they would open the case again! Thank You for all the information!
That! As strange as this case is, the sensationalization is annoying me. Blood oozing from her temple. Really? This is said, as we see a picture of hair with no blood what so ever.
This case would be a simple case of missing and killed by the elements if not for the missing picture and how the bones were found. Those two items equal some weird ass shit went down.
Sigh. Dog never went with them. This was just some vague made up detail very early on (in 2014) in the case and was since not believed to be true by anyone. There is no blood in the picture of the hair, certainly not ‘oozing’.
I also recall the last photo of the girls had an eerie feel to it. All the selfies before looked happy, then the last like maybe someone else was there by surprise (i speculate). It is also suspicious that a single photo was removed permenantly. Why? Was it a photo of someone involved that was deleted by the perpetrator.
@noxnc true. This certainly raises a good argument against the foul play theories. I can't recall any items that were not found that were on the girls person that day? I can only say that if the camera wasn't found, theft/robbery might have been considered, which I suppose is what these theoretical perpetrators would have wanted to avoid? An investigation into murder involving people living in the area.
@@cotarddelusion876 Certainly not impossible that a perp would do as you say to avoid raising suspicion. It does feel risky to leave the camera or other items that might have DNA or other clues attached, but criminals have been known to do dumb things. Feels like burning everything so that no single item is conspicuously absent is the best bet, but who knows. I think someone else suggested that maybe the photo was deleted accidentally, or on purpose for some reason, when the investigators were retrieving data from the camera.
It's not mentioned fully here but the girls had "brunch" (drinks) with two men and went dancing, where one of the girls refused the advances of one of the young men. This case reminds me somewhat of the case of Natalie Holloway from years ago. Only now are they finally bringing the initial suspect to trial for that crime. I feel this was foul play, proven by the many times they attempted to call for help and the abundance of femicide in that area. Whether or not it was Gonsalez, I feel local men knew of the girls' presence and where they were hiking (small, tight community) and plotted to overtake them, perhaps believing they had money. So haunting.
Yes, i feel even they met Feleciano and Eileen this day and hike up together, then the son and the other guys of the gang joined them later and bad things start from there...
The phone evidence: Lisanne's phone died at the exact time that all the 77 failed login attempts began to occur on Kris' phone. The most likely explanation is that Lisanne had both phones and when her own phone died she began using Kris'. Not knowing the password, resulted in all the failed attempts. She kept trying to get in and was guessing things it could be (her friend's birthday etc). There's really no good explanation for an abductor/murderer to care about getting into the phone and if anything, accessing the phone just adds additional evidence due to pings. An abductor/murderer would much more likely want to get rid of the phones ASAP and dump them in a deep hole or water body where they'd never be found. Now as to why Lisanne would have both phones: there are a number of reasons: Kris had already died, Kris became ill and couldn't move or talk, one was injured and the other went for help (either the injured or the helper held onto both phones to use the light or call for help if one phone got signal), they were running from someone and the phones were in the backpack and the two somehow got separated with the one with the backpack having both phones, etc. I'm curious to know where the ping signal was on the one successful connection was to emergency services that lasted 2 seconds. If it was on the jungle trail, that would eliminate the water hole theory I think. Unless the claim is the girls were killed near the water hole and then the killer took the phones back to the jungle (but then how would the killer have the passwords to get in and then no longer have the passwords later on).
“Some” parts? When it comes to young women travelling alone. There has always been some degree of risk when backpacking or touring around certain parts of the world. There are countries and areas that women travelling alone should avoid all together. Especially ones where their cultures have little to no respect for women. Unfortunately, In this day and age, and not helped by mass immigration from third word countries. Women travelling alone or without male companions, boyfriends etc. have to be Extremely Vigilant and Careful virtually Everywhere!
In one of the many true crime contents about this case (a longer, very detailed and properly researched one) I saw a picture of where the ranch of the tour guide is located. Let's put it this way - seeing this and with all the information about him and his behaviour I don't have to hear anything more to full heartedly believe that he is involved in the murder of the two girls. I mean... it's blatantly obvious.
My hypothesis is : This tour guide is a bad native and he believes he rules that trail. He thinks he is above the law so he and his son's gang can do anything no matter how mad and evil. He said before to one of his female customers that if she resisted his sexual assault then he would cut her leg off 🦶This is evidence of his bad intentions past, present and future. I will not allow my children to visit this BANANA REPUBLIC 🍌🚫🚫🚫🚫🚫Do not go 🚫🚫🚫🚫🚫
@@Theivorypanda But the bones of one of the girls were bleached, and the foot of one of the girls was still in the shoe and the bone was cut perfectly. Moreover, the backpack was in a perfect state, while it was in the woods for months, and it was raining for a few days before the backpack was found
It seems very odd that they would go on that hike a day earlier then expected after making plans to go on that same hike the very next day with a guide.
@@benitolonard4441that's possible, but if they did take them off, it could've been because they were going swimming, or they were very hot and decided to remove some clothing.
To make it seem a a sex crime had happened to them.... IMO they never went out in the jungle by themselves (with Lisanne feeling very poorly that day). Their phones were "found" after a month or more - dry and still intact - in the wilderness. As well as their camera. Everything we think we know about this case is based on this fact. What - if it is fake? ......???
The creepy photo of the back of a bleeding head does not make sense if they were lost. I could see someone trying unlock the phone using the finger of unconscious girl, which may have snapped a random photo. If there were any photos of the guide or any potential suspects, on the girls cameras, they'd likely want to remove it.
M...my heart breaks at the thought of what these girls endured and the fear they felt not to mention the freaking cover up ...Mr Gonsalez you will get your day sir....
Glad this video was made. I mention this case a lot but find more and more so that people consider this not to be a mysterious case, but a case of getting lost/hurt and then succumbing to the environment. I do not feel this is the strongest theory, but the gonzalez family being involved is. Feels so much like a big cover up has taken place. May those poor women rip.
Yeah, when you read the wikipedia page on the two ladies, it leads you to think, Kris fell to her death, or fell and succumbed to injury, and Lisanne tried helplessly to call for emergency services and was lost, the pictures make you think they are taking them as she is walking for lighting purposes, and maybe recall of areas. But then, you watch something like this, and it makes you want to know the full truth, the investigation carried out clarified nothing. I hope those two angels are resting well. 👼
09:00 - it was not another man that went with the tour guide to the host family of these girls to ransack their bedroom, but a German intern worker named Eileen Witek. Feliciano's son Henry is his stepson. He does not have multiple sons. She spoke some Dutch also. For those interested in more case details, I have a channel here and a big blog series with all the case info, which can be found under Koude Kaas Cold Case blog.
This picture of Kris's hair is not the same as the picture I have seen on other channels. It actually looks more like hair that has been in the jungle for days unlike the more publicized picture of clean pristine hair.
If I had been the person who did the crimes I would go on trip advisor every so often and post negative reviews about the tour guide to point the investigation towards him.
It seems a few things were added to this video to dramatize the story. For example, I've never seen a pic with blood oozing from the temple of Kris. This is already an intriguing and mysterious case. No need to add misinformation.
Well that was a lot more information that I've never heard before. The guide, his card, and his visit to the host family. I never heard that one of their call attempts actually did go through.
Yeah they were attacked and taken away, theres been other cases of this too many really to document and the fact their belongings were found weeks later in good condition and it looks like the body parts were planted, suspect as...
I am watching this case of Chris and Lisan since more than ten years. Nothing is more sad than this tragedy in Panama. I suppose we never get closer to what happened. I only want to say that this story has very deeply and forever impacted my life. These girls are part of my life - foreever and ever.
I have no doubt he was a perv, but a murderer is a big step up. Perhaps could be the gang which included his son was involved and he helped to cover it up.
My country is next to Panama. Both Costa Rica and Panama are dangerous countries mostly due to the lack of profesional preventive police forces a lots of poor people. Most likely those girls thought they were safe as in Europe..RIP.
@@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 El Salvador is in this moment the safest country in all latin América. Honduras Is still pretty dangerous however Costa Rica Is getting close. When I was a kid in the 90s u rarely hear about a murder. Nowdays there are around 3 murders daily here...most of those because of gangs motivated by drug trafic.
I will always suspect that guide after reading the review of his tour left by a single woman traveling alone. She was legit scared of him and strongly recommended that NO woman go anywhere with him alone. They covered up the murders to protect the precious tourism trade. boils my blood that nothing was ever done.
Not really a mystery concerning Madeline McCann. She was never abducted, she sadly died in the apartment and her parents Kate and Gerry McCann covered up her death, and disposed of her body. Portuguese police inspector Gonçalo Amaral knew exactly what happened from the moment he entered the apartment after she so say went missing, and there was evidence of a clean up having taken place, and a strong smell of bleach. Cadaver and blood dogs indicated on Cadaver and blood in the apartment, and also in the hire car the McCanns rented some weeks later. I think they used the car to dispose of her body.
There's no mystery for.Maddy , she almost certainly died in that apartment . Weeks later cadaver dogs reacted to human decomposition smell there and.also in car rented by the parents
I fully agree .Until the panamanian government launches a full scale investigation and the law enforcement authorities are directed to exercise the law to bring in all suspects specially that very fishy tour guide and bring the culprits to book,panama should be on the red alert for tourists.I was contemplating a visit to Latin America very much,but after hearing this panamanian horror I have given up on this.Ugh!
I lived in the Republic of Panama for two years, and while many things there are beautiful, especially the beaches.....there is no serial killer in the world as dangerous as the jungle. A few steps off the path and you can be lost forever. Please be very careful if you visit.
@@lyndoncmp5751 ??? They weren't into exploring off trail? How do you know this? Taking a few simple steps off path is something anyone could do. "Nowhere to get lost on this path" said many a hiker who ended up in trouble. You can get lost on any path.
Dragonflie79 WE KNOW this because every single picture they took that day shows them squarely ON the trail. There is not even one picture showing them even a tad off the trail. Lisanne was a shutter bug and she documented their hike that day via a pictorial record. Lisanne would have most definitely taken pictures of any exciting ventures off trail. There aren't any. Nor would two young woman in shorts and tank tops be exploring off trail. They weren't dressed for it. You have to use logic and evidence here. Not a jot of evidence they were into exploring off trail. Facts to the contrary actually.
Dragonflie79, So who else on that trail has got lost, never been found and ended up dead? No, you cannot get lost on 'any' trail and as an experienced hiker I know this. In fact the most confusing part of the trail where you might take the wrong path is actually on the way UP to the Mirador summit, according to those who have hiked it. That Kris and Lisanne DIDN'T take the wrong path at the most confusing section and reached the Mirador in good time points towards them being fairly well orientated and able to follow it. Once over the summit you go down again. At the point in picture 508 you clearly go back UP the trail to the Mirador to go home. You don't start going off onto tiny side bush trails, dense in undergrowth.... in shorts. Two people hiking together won't get confused and disorientated there. It's a well defined main path all the way to the open meadow spot and beyond......which of course there is no record of them ever reaching willingly. It's a perfect picture opportunity. Yet no pictures.
Obviously Panama is gonna cover for their people. The tour guide obviously did it. He knows the area too well, this he would know where to plant items where nobody else would find them. So he could be like, “Look at what I found!” But he’s very old, so I’m very confused to how he could kill two young, able bodied women. Probably pushed them off a cliff judging off of the picture of the hair and the way the head was positioned.
I wonder if you would be that quick to accuse someone of multiple murders, sexual assault and conspiracy if this person lived in your country and could sue you for defamation.
Not to even mention the deleted photo. If you watched the revisit with their family on dutch tv you can see that its impossible to go off path . Atleast one of them was decently experienced at hiking. They didnt bring the right things for such a long hike. Theres a reason they suddenly went off the path into the dense jungle. To me its obvious they were trying to run away from someone. Also their belongings were so clearly planted.
I saw about these girls on another channel last night.. it's so tragic... they should've never left their guide to go exploring on their own but they did and some think they were murdered, I do tbh and some think they succumbed to the elements and one had an accident.. I hope one day the truth will be told... rip girls 😢😢
In my opinion, Feliciano might be the killer. He is the closest person to new tourists. If he is a creep that doesn't like when girls/women say “no” to him, he could be aggressive towards them to the point of the worst scenarios. He knows the surroundings and forest very well. He could, just like an animal, plan the hunt and isolate potential victim/s in the unknown for them area/s. And then he could kill, play a little to make it look like an accident, go back whenever he wants to check things and arrange them. He is the guide, so no one would be surprised to see him at the “weird” areas, he can go to the tourists rooms without being considered as suspicious. And he is trying to be everywhere, to play nice, to play good Samaritan. He helps the staff, he helps the police, he talks with media, he is all the time close to the case and can domineer it as he likes. If he is the killer, he is doing that for years, maybe since he is working there. And maybe he has some help, or had, since a lot of gang members were already killed.
@@EdWard-ie5wn Why so many guys from the gang died mysteriously then ? I think it's Feliciano's son, but yeah it's possible that it's just Feliciano...
The parents of one of the girls hiked the trail they got lost on, it was also filmed...there is practically no way you could get lost there. Plus the theory that they actually returned and met with those local boys and they killed them is making way more sense than it should. Photos with the boys later from that day from which you cant tell that it is them 100% but everything from hair color, skin color (they were obviously very white compared to the local population), to their heights (Froon was 184cm tall and the girl in the picture was really tall...tell me how many 180+ cm tall women live in Panama? 3?) and shape of bodies and even shape of their faces ...everything matches, and the fact that two of the boys died mysteriously soon after the girls disappeared....This is one of my favorite true crime mysteries. I am always skeptical when it comes to wild theories but I don't think I have ever come across one that would make more sense (maybe 9/11 lol)
They only called for help once each that first afternoon/evening/night. Very odd if they were lost or had an accident. They would have kept trying, unless somebody then took their phones off them.
It's odd that when they finally connected to 911, they didn't spam call it right after it disconnected. Seems like if they were lost they would have called 911 over and over right after connecting and then the call dropping.
He and another man were in the girl's room for 30 min, unobserved? Was there a computer, a laptop? He could have deleted the missing photo on the camera there and then, if he had the girls. He could have made the last strange photos too. Bit I don'r want to accuse him of anything. I don't know him.
So this tour guide for whatever reason didnt decide to go and do the walk without them looking for them straight away? But went to their rooms to snoop. Hmmm
They say that the prosecutor claimed that it was a hiking accident, when no evidence of such a case was found. My question is, what proof is there that they were murdered? Because an Internet user gets it into their head that it was a crime or their RUclips video attracts more attention and has more followers, they say things that they did not investigate or read official reports from Panama and Holland. A country like Holland, they believe, would want two of its citizens to be murdered and leave everything just like that. Or their families? Think a little, reason, look beyond the easiest. I went through that, I was more attracted to believing that someone harassed and murdered them than an accident, but I didn't stay with that and I continued searching until I believed more in the accident. But only they know what really happened to them and they can't tell it.
I think for some reason they drifted off their intended path, got lost in the jungle, and then were eaten by a family of polar bears. It's the most logical theory imo.
Thanks for the video, I’ve always said this case was due to FOUL PLAY! Sometimes you just have to go with your gut feeling. The mystery of this would be solved with just one little clue, I feel…much like Jonbenet Ramsey’s death or the Black Dahlia. I’m so glad that I’m not alone in seeing there’s something we’re not being told.
It's nice to hear Lisanne's name pronounced correctly. Such a sad story. I don't think for a minute the girls deaths were an accident. AndI do think that the perps. were taken care of.
There is zero mystery except people monetizing off them. They took a picture of the bridge she fell at u can clearly see the white cable in the background. They took a picture beneath it n the bones were found down river of the bridge!?! Crazy how yall are making money of the poor family. The one who lived used her phone until it ran out n then tried the other girls but didn't know the code. So simple. Make your money though make your money
The cutting off a leg comment does seem suggestive of the guide's involvement along with his alleged interest in foreign girls. The number of people killed who were related to this case also suggest foul play. It is such a haunting and tragic case with those two vibrant young girls meeting some type of horrible fate. The syndrome of the arsonist returning to the crime scene seems at play with the guide reporting the girls missing and being involved in the rescue mission.
It's sucks so bad there was no DNA on any of these items. Did they ever check that?? I just saw a case in Idaho where a killer was caught by a tiny tiny piece of DNA on a buckle clasp. I bet my left nut this crazy family left their DNA all over these items. Where are they now? Who has them?
In another video I saw that the backpack, phones and camera had like 6-12 fingerprints or partly fingerprints on them but they couldn't find anything based on them and also that the investigators never wore gloves or anything. The really half assed the whole thing…
Read up about this case the cops barely analysised the photos I just zoomed in on some and saw 2 photos with figures.. so how do the police miss this ...
I never knew about all the witnesses dying after the girls were found, this raises suspicion greatly imo
someone trying to keep people 🤫
The guide of Kris and Lisanne, was also a guide of another tourist who was found strangled on a popular tourist Island in Panama. He still guides to this very day…
What's his name? @@NotaGabeItch
Keep this case alive, their killers are still free.. since then, at least 30 people were killed and disappeared at El Pianista trail..
The stones are slippery there, you can slip, hit and die. After the rain.
Yes, but they aren't nearly as hot as these women are.
ok good answer @@molchanovblog
@@molchanovblog
Which people. Names and evidence please
I thought only 4 of them were killed they were the members of the ND5 gang if I'm not mistaken and the one member there is the son of the tour guide ( Feliciano ) and the sons name is ( Henry )
I always thought this was a shady case but this video is crazy. I definitely think the tour guide has something to do with it based on everything I’ve seen.
Why did Feliciano Gonzalez had to visit the girls host family house after they went missing, he is just a tour guide not a policeman nor a detective. This tour guide had no business being in their room!
The guide is a lover of young girls.
Because he robbered evidences proofs
Because he doesn't get money if they don't show up.
He's one of the gang even his son is a member ND5 gang of 3 of them were killed and the taxi driver suspiciously drowned
Why would two young girls go hiking in a jungle known for cartel activity and disappearing women?
That is the main question and you are certainly right!
They were naïve, sheltered Dutch females, that’s why. They obviously didn’t do any in-depth research into the country and area they were going; and they must have had some erroneous, romanticized perception of Middle and South America and missed the memo about the wide spread corruption, cartels, gangs, poverty and general disregard for human life that plagues Latin America. Of course not all Latino people are bad, but there certainly seems to be a large majority with very questionable morals considering the facts about how much horrid stuff happens on a continual, large scale throughout Mexico on down to Tierra del Fuego in Argentina.
Obviously because they didn't know about anything bad in that area
They were extremely naive 😢
Sheltered western women. They believed all the western lies about foreign countries all being gr8 places
I think people should boycott panama as a tourist country until this gonzales is put under lawsuit or until angry mob kills this entire "gang".
Yes they can stuff it
@@Suzyfromtheblock Yeah, yet another garbage ass country.
Always found it very sus the tour guide went to check up on a client that didn’t show up for a appointment 🤔 then to go into the room they were staying 🤯
It don’t feel right … it’s creepy!!
It's murder
He entered the room in order to remove some evidence which might could lead to the Tourguide F.
wrg
And was there in their room for 30 mins.. This guy is shady and should have been investigated properly.
The guide is a lover of young girls.
Two young girls hiking in the woods alone in Panama.....if I was a crazy stalker/predator these two would be the perfect target! They were definitely brutally murdered!
No evidence of foul play outside of pretty wild speculation and conspiracy. Even the Dutch investigative team and the parents of the girls don't think it was foul play (though they did question the methods of the Panamanian authorities).
@@foleyhuck2344 families always question police, no surprise there
@@foleyhuck2344 There is circumstantial evidence - 1.) The deleted picture 509 in the cameras - supposedly this can only be deleted via a computer - where in the world would the girls have access/time to do this if stranded in the jungle?
2.) The placement of evidence- the foot, backpack, pelvic bone - all seemingly placed in puzzling locations to deter investigators from finding out the truth. The backpack is definitely a form of intimidation/joke as the girls belongings were folded up neatly as if to taunt those who would come across it.
3.) The unsuccessful attempts to get into one of the girls phones (possibly after the girls were killed)
4.) Much more if you research it.
5.) Two girls, alone in a jungle - planned a short trip, family re-walked the trails and showed no signs they could’ve gotten lost - unless they trailed off on their own and got “adventurous” off the path. There are other people living in that area and could have seen them as “prey” aka easy targets for rape and murder. Not to mention the drug trafficking and human organ black market...
The professional that tested the bones working in Mexico said in an interview, going on the evidence on the bones, he believes the woman were killed and drained as he works in that field and understands what goes on as a result of his work in this country.
There was also a lady who visited that country and area before the girls. She was assaulted by 3 guys and they held her in a hut deep in the jungle. She managed to fight and get away.
What protection does Panama offer their tourists?The tourist police seem to be asleep
@@ronalikumudu5926they in on it too
Yes I remember this! The girl was hiking, got lost for 3 days and stumbled upon a group of 3 guys and asked for help. The 3 guys attacked her, and took turns graping her. The woman ended up stabbing one of them and got away.
She ran for miles, stumbled on a trail and followed it which led her to an Indigenous village. The indigenous people helped her and brought her to authorities in a nearby town. All 3 men were caught and sentenced to 12-15 years in prison. Here’s the kicker, one of the men was apart of the Search Team that was sent out to locate the lost hiker……
@@ronalikumudu5926They are filthy corrupt. Panama often hides these cases from the media and downplays them to protect tourism. Panama is too dangerous if you’re a young female tourist. One tourist was hacked to pieces by an ex-Mexican cartel member who fled Mexico to Panama. He was sentenced to prison, but escaped and is currently on the run in Panama. Avoid that country at all cost.
@@NotaGabeItch Sources?
So one natural decomp, and one bleached, with the clothes neatly folded, and they rule it an accident? Definitely foul play, definitely a cover up
To be fair the bleaching could be sun bleaching, not saying this case isn't otherwise potentially suspicious, just that part might be explainable
The stuff was NOT neatly folded. There's photos to show they was pretty fucked up when founded.
The most interesting thing was that there were bras in the backpack. They could attract maniacs in the jungle without bras.
The girls could despair and commit suicide. Because no help came to them.
@@molchanovblogAs women might tell you: wearing a bra for several days in a hot and damp environment isn't exactly comfortable.
I know well this case.
My own conclusion is that Henry's gang did rape and murder them (there is even a picture of supposedly Lisanne and Kris with them),
and his father Feliciano made the cover up.
Thinking that this is an accident is just laughable, there are far far too many strange things that happened.
You didn't talk much about the super weird events with the missing picture on the camera, and the staged night pictures made later made by the killers.
Also the dog story is apparently bullshit, the dog does not appear on any picture, and the dog owners that own a restaurant at the beginning of the trail are shady !
That's not them in the swimming photo
@@EdWard-ie5wn It's up to debate.
@anadrol9934 the location of that photo is like an hour away from the town/hiking trail. Why would they drive an hour away with some random locals
@@EdWard-ie5wn It was maybe an other day, I would guess that they randomly bumped into them.
It's also possible that you are right and it's not them on the photo, but redheads are rare in Boquete I suppose.
As IMHO it's the gang that killed them, I would not be surprised that it's them on the pic either...
@@anadrol9934 I'm not even convinced the people in that photo are women
Ever notice that rape or femicide are never labeled hate crimes?
🍄
Are men being raped and men being killed (by their spouse) called hate crimes?
dismembering parts of body is very common in Latin america, hence i lean towards the murder theory. Also all the suspicous deaths of the young guys related to the case. There is no reason to believe it was an accident... no way!
dismbembering and scattering off bodies is common in general in killers
@@houseofblues9016 They cut off heads in Mexico
The chance that if they were lost and couldn't be found was very small. At least one of them was still alive and used the cell phone on April 11.
The monkey bridge🐒should have been walked by locals or hikers within that period ( 8 to 11 days) and the girls were right below with big SOS sign and other belongings.
Also, locals should have already known that there were two missing european women in the area and paid extra attention to the surrounding area.
Why no one saw them or any of their items : SOS, flash lights, shorts, branch with bags , etc.
I believe because they were not there anymore . They met someone or some ones and were abducted.
My theory is foul play.
The village woman who found the backpack was lying. No one would walk 4 hours ( return journey) to a remote small river to wash his/her clothings in TWO CONSECUTIVE DAYS and ALONE. She was actually Feliciano's coffee farm employee and instructed to do the show. No eye witness at all . Only she .
If she really found the backpack why wasn't she awarded the US$30,000 ?
So revealing in itself
99% percent of the time sex is the main motivation
You mean rape
Rape*
And organs...
and prostitution with brothels
They proxxstiuals lifestyle
Next time you're thinking of booking a hike with Feliciano Gonzalez, just remember to watch this video first.
Another tourist that had him as a guide, was found strangled.
all reviews are good if they are groups or families, but solo says he is a harasser
The guide is a lover of young girls.
The guide is a lover of young girls.
@@NotaGabeItch what was his name?
Guy jokes about cutting legs off. And they found one girls foot. Thats some creepy stuff. I think its definitely foul play imo. Its possible they got lost and hurt? And just couldn't get help? But i believe its foul play personally.
Having a bad sense of humour doesn't make you a serial killer.
Also: of course you could find parts of a body. Do you think bodies evaporate?
all people who died, like taxi driver , Osman ect..were killers of kriss and lisanne. Kartel killed them, because they knew, that was their mistake to kill kriss and kramers and they dont want that mens in his gang, who cauntioned police by their actions. Feliciano did max to convince police, that was the accident. He did well. Feliciano got for exchange life of their son. But Kartel was still angry. Feliciano know this gangsters very well, so they dont want to kill him, but if he say something one day, he will maybe dissapear too...
Makes sense
@@HussRisingYT but is it strange about last photos and the deleted photo. Do Kartel go to the woods to make fake photos? How they deleted photo? What about girls tryied 10 days to reach 911 and 112? This case is soo and soo and soo misteriuos... Maybe it has simple explanation, but I doubt we will ever find it out...
all of the witnesses were killed
Many things should be secured before travelling to South America:
1- Girls should be accompanied by at least the same number of male friends for minimum protection.
2- Always be sure there's a mobile coverage in the jungle before hiking, so you can call for help in case of emergency. If not, then take with you a Talkie Walkie.
3- NEVER trust latin american men that you've just met, unless they are old friends.
4- Try to travel or hike in big numbers. Kidnappers won't attack large groups. They'll fail.
5- Always remember you're visiting a 3rd world country where there's a high crime rate and a lot of corruption even among police. Awareness on this topic is very important.
6- Consider taking with you a self-defense weapon that can be put in your pocket or backpack (a spray, a small hidden stick, a stun gun, etc...).
If, despite reading all those recommendations, you're still reluctant to travel to South America, then travel elsewhere. There are dozens of other tropical countries that are much safer and even more beautiful than South America.
bring a tent.
lots of food.
and a gps (cells dont work after bout half a mile)
7. Avoid Central and South America.
Women should consider not hiking in foreign countries I would suggest.
@Ohioleftmebroken Sorry. They craved attention.
@@marknewton6984Who craved attention? And what’s your actual point?
So scary! As a woman I would never dare go to an unknown country where I will not have the same protections and go on a hike. Too risky!
You shouldn't go on a hike period, especially alone, U.S or elsewhere.
@@chrisx5127I don’t understand how these women don’t understand that. Stay out of remote locations. It’s bad enough for men, but for some reason many women believe they’re invincible. This case sad and creepy.
I will never understand why any women would go to a Central American country where laws don't exist to protect you especially if you're a foreigner. Stay home!
It's the thrill for "exotic adventure"... a craving for the curious, innocent & naive. Especially for those who have money.
That's what happens when you vacation In a savage country.
They thought they had a temporary job working with children.
Too many Western women think the world is a playground.
@@mr.sinjin-smyth
meh...
I'd lean towards likes and followers nowadays.
Dont go to these lawless countries, you are rolling the dice with your life
im not nowhere near and im not a woman either way id never do this .after i hear this case .i wouldnt feel safe at all
Foul play definitely. The restaurant owner needs to be investigated.
They did not have an appointment with him. They got rejected at the school and so they got freetime. They did not considered going only to that trial but on that day they did. Dude got hours to crawl in their private things before calling the police. He is sus in many occasions but none of it is solid evidence directly pointing on him.
Also regarding to that many comments here :
That girls did not spontainously traveled in a jungle like naive schoolgirls. They booked that trip months before, cleared out bad possibilities and managed to get a volunteers work and a save sleeping space. The school accomondated many students before and was not fishy at all.
In the area vanished one or two other people in a timeframe from 20 years. The place is full with tourists and wanderers all the time. 99% go save home. That is why there is a cross on the top of pianista trail to remember only two names: Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers (and not 1000 other names because there is none). There are plenty of videos where people walk that trail.
And i say it again: That girls were not dumb. Also you have to go very very far to end in the jungle, the most of the place around is not dangerous and abandoned. If you read carefully the case, adding all together, the photos, the phone data, the weather, the time, the diary, the eyewitnesses, the town, the people, the for and aftermath... you will maybe notice nothing make sense and so the official statement. And if that is probably not what happened, it is also no explanation what they did on that day, when they arrived the trail, how long they have been there, what the weather was etc. And if that makes not much sense the story of "poor girls got lost in jungle" is not verified at all. So please go away from that narrative and for the souls of that two girls: Dont let them remembered as dumb city chicks who had no clue and got lost. They were more of that and there must be a lot more to it.
he is not only sus , i think ( im 97% sure )he is the killer
Feliciano made the cross himself..
And he also found the foot. And when I asked him last week about the case he got very nervous. Because he knows that I'm a Dutch private investigator.
he may have been the one making the emergency calls the entire time after taking their phones to make it look that they were alive the entire time also why didn't the woman who hosted them in her house call the authorities directly after they didn't come back at night wasn't she the one who told the girls to come back before sundown cos there are stuff happening in that town the women who called the police is also a suspect they may be a small group of human traffickers who were after the girls organs
@@juliannfloress3490 I think 98% he is the killer
Panama needs to properly investigate Gonzalez , leaving it unsolved is bad for tourism business!
No, Panama doesn't need to do anything. Western women need to get their heads out of their rear ends and realize the privilege and status of being a women in the West will NOT carry them safely though places like Panama! They should of had husbands to keep them from making dumb decisions like traveling alone in undeveloped countries! GEEZ why does this need to be explained? The audacity of Western women is insane!
This is a good recap of all the latest information. This was a cover up by the authorities for sure. Esp with all the witnesses and suspects showing up dead after the girls disappearance. Ruling it an accident and closing the case to avoid bad publicity for the tourist industry!!!
Feliciano Gonzalez, you know what you did! What’s hidden will come to light!
He Had Something 2 Do With It
Hope They Finally Find The Truth n HE GETS WHATS COMING 2 HIM
I’ve read up a lot on this case. Yes, accidents do happen, but it’s truly strange how people will put logic aside bec they would rather not see the evil that exists in the world. The most obvious answer is that they were murdered. Those poor women…
Where's the evidence then?
Accident is by far the best theory. People get lost way more than get killed.
@@Guizambaldi something wrong with your logic, there's more evidence 2 foul play, then an accident, just where are there bodies???
@@noleenpeake2164 what? they found most of there bones what are you saying?
I agree. Definitely no accident. They were murdered and dismembered. I can't imagine what they went through in their final few days.
That is one creepy looking guy
There was not a picture of Kris’s head with blood oozing from the temple.
There was a picture of her head where some have insisted there is what appears to be blood on the bottom right corner of the photo. No one has proven if that’s what it was, or what part of her head is even shown.
The script of this case (In this video episode) is so sensationalized and numerous facts are loosely jumbled. This is very sloppy. It is high profile videos like this one that causes so much disinformation about this case over the years.
@@AutumnsEndMusic 💯💯 Facts!
@@PanamaResearch-uj2xo Could be, that’s sort of what it looks like!
@AutumnsEndMusic Yeah. It's sad. Lisannes sister inlaw said something very similar.
@@PanamaResearch-uj2xo See, to me it doesn’t look like blood. To me it looks like Lisanne’s hair. Both of their hair. Like they are huddled or lying together, as sad and tragic of an image as that potentially paints.
Clearly authorities do not want this case to be solved, in a previous video that just listed all the facts I already thought that this case wasn't mysterious at all, in no scenario could this ever be an accident. An accident doesn't make your remains scattered all over with such long distances in between, everything they found was planted. This man is definitely involved and he should've never been allowed into their room. Only way I can see this case solved is if the family would hire a private detective, who can uncover some things that local authorities don't want to. Often these gangs or well known families are 'ignored' by the police in cases like this. I hope they didn't have to suffer, but all the emergency calls suggest otherwise. I truly do hope that this case will be solved some time.
i think the girls didnt even make a single phone call i be;ieve they didnt know what hit them and aall happened to fast to act
I read that Kris Kremer’s parents hired a private investigator and traveled there with them. There is a video on RUclips of the parents taking a hike with Felicio Gonzalez (he look’s uncomfortable and guilty, imo) and they determined, for themselves, that it was near impossible to get lost or fall from any height.
@@ericarose739 Link?
I remember seeing a video about two other women doing a hike somewhere like this....they were cut up on camera. Stay away from places like this man.
Never leave the boat. Apocalypse Now
Morocco backpack murders
You mean the two women who were beheaded by radical Islamists from Morocco, I can't tell you which is scarier, sadistic gangs in South America or Islamist terrorists..
They didn't go on vacation, they went to Panama to volunteer and study Spanish.
You can't learn Spanish in 1.5 months
Hello! Very nice research, I think the girls did the hiking without problems, Feliciano's son Henry seems to be the one who took the girls along with gang members back in the town, I wish they would open the case again! Thank You for all the information!
but by all accounts they were warned multiple times not to go...
That! As strange as this case is, the sensationalization is annoying me. Blood oozing from her temple. Really? This is said, as we see a picture of hair with no blood what so ever.
@@rabenweisyou can see her face in the photo supposedly
@@jdzen8548 The two Girls were warned, but couldn't speak or understand Spanish.
This case would be a simple case of missing and killed by the elements if not for the missing picture and how the bones were found. Those two items equal some weird ass shit went down.
The bones could be eaten by insects and animals
The girls could have been eaten by insects and animals
Sigh. Dog never went with them. This was just some vague made up detail very early on (in 2014) in the case and was since not believed to be true by anyone.
There is no blood in the picture of the hair, certainly not ‘oozing’.
You can see the dead face in that photo.
All those countries are heavily corrupted..much more than ours...RIP🌹🌹
I also recall the last photo of the girls had an eerie feel to it. All the selfies before looked happy, then the last like maybe someone else was there by surprise (i speculate). It is also suspicious that a single photo was removed permenantly. Why? Was it a photo of someone involved that was deleted by the perpetrator.
Why wouldn’t the perpetrator just destroy the camera though?
that wouldnt destroy the photos inside it@@noxnc
@noxnc true. This certainly raises a good argument against the foul play theories. I can't recall any items that were not found that were on the girls person that day? I can only say that if the camera wasn't found, theft/robbery might have been considered, which I suppose is what these theoretical perpetrators would have wanted to avoid? An investigation into murder involving people living in the area.
@@cotarddelusion876 Certainly not impossible that a perp would do as you say to avoid raising suspicion. It does feel risky to leave the camera or other items that might have DNA or other clues attached, but criminals have been known to do dumb things. Feels like burning everything so that no single item is conspicuously absent is the best bet, but who knows. I think someone else suggested that maybe the photo was deleted accidentally, or on purpose for some reason, when the investigators were retrieving data from the camera.
It's not mentioned fully here but the girls had "brunch" (drinks) with two men and went dancing, where one of the girls refused the advances of one of the young men. This case reminds me somewhat of the case of Natalie Holloway from years ago. Only now are they finally bringing the initial suspect to trial for that crime. I feel this was foul play, proven by the many times they attempted to call for help and the abundance of femicide in that area. Whether or not it was Gonsalez, I feel local men knew of the girls' presence and where they were hiking (small, tight community) and plotted to overtake them, perhaps believing they had money. So haunting.
i really think they were being stalked
They were raped and murdered. Period.
Yes, i feel even they met Feleciano and Eileen this day and hike up together, then the son and the other guys of the gang joined them later and bad things start from there...
did the femicides continue is this still going in the area do u know?
@@houseofblues9016 Don't go there.
The phone evidence:
Lisanne's phone died at the exact time that all the 77 failed login attempts began to occur on Kris' phone. The most likely explanation is that Lisanne had both phones and when her own phone died she began using Kris'. Not knowing the password, resulted in all the failed attempts. She kept trying to get in and was guessing things it could be (her friend's birthday etc).
There's really no good explanation for an abductor/murderer to care about getting into the phone and if anything, accessing the phone just adds additional evidence due to pings. An abductor/murderer would much more likely want to get rid of the phones ASAP and dump them in a deep hole or water body where they'd never be found.
Now as to why Lisanne would have both phones: there are a number of reasons: Kris had already died, Kris became ill and couldn't move or talk, one was injured and the other went for help (either the injured or the helper held onto both phones to use the light or call for help if one phone got signal), they were running from someone and the phones were in the backpack and the two somehow got separated with the one with the backpack having both phones, etc.
I'm curious to know where the ping signal was on the one successful connection was to emergency services that lasted 2 seconds. If it was on the jungle trail, that would eliminate the water hole theory I think. Unless the claim is the girls were killed near the water hole and then the killer took the phones back to the jungle (but then how would the killer have the passwords to get in and then no longer have the passwords later on).
This case is so sad. you really have to be careful in some parts of the world.
“Some” parts? When it comes to young women travelling alone. There has always been some degree of risk when backpacking or touring around certain parts of the world. There are countries and areas that women travelling alone should avoid all together. Especially ones where their cultures have little to no respect for women. Unfortunately, In this day and age, and not helped by mass immigration from third word countries. Women travelling alone or without male companions, boyfriends etc. have to be Extremely Vigilant and Careful virtually Everywhere!
You have to be careful everywhere, between inclimate weather, wild animals, and people.
All parts of the world!!
Panama is considered pretty safe overall. It boils down to the wrong place at the wrong time...no matter where you are
@@pikachu6031 Based and TruthPilled
In one of the many true crime contents about this case (a longer, very detailed and properly researched one) I saw a picture of where the ranch of the tour guide is located. Let's put it this way - seeing this and with all the information about him and his behaviour I don't have to hear anything more to full heartedly believe that he is involved in the murder of the two girls. I mean... it's blatantly obvious.
My hypothesis is : This tour guide is a bad native and he believes he rules that trail. He thinks he is above the law so he and his son's gang can do anything no matter how mad and evil. He said before to one of his female customers that if she resisted his sexual assault then he would cut her leg off 🦶This is evidence of his bad intentions past, present and future. I will not allow my children to visit this BANANA REPUBLIC 🍌🚫🚫🚫🚫🚫Do not go 🚫🚫🚫🚫🚫
I agree.
What's the other video?
@@Theivorypanda But the bones of one of the girls were bleached, and the foot of one of the girls was still in the shoe and the bone was cut perfectly. Moreover, the backpack was in a perfect state, while it was in the woods for months, and it was raining for a few days before the backpack was found
You would be the worst jury member.
1:58
"Let's 'explore' the neighboring villiage! In Panama!"
Darwin wins again.
I don't see any blood in the picture of the back of her head. Why does everyone keep saying there is blood?
No blood.
It seems very odd that they would go on that hike a day earlier then expected after making plans to go on that same hike the very next day with a guide.
Very simple , the guide lied .
Still I don't get why 2 apparently sane girls from Europe would want to go hiking there. Don't make sense, must be more to it.
Maybe they've seen enough of the show, with Bear Grylls.
Its almost a decade since they passed. So sad
They had a chance to survive if they were smart.
Never ever go to Panama. With many other places you can go to help. It's very dangerous. No man's land.
Why would their bras be in the backpack? I have never heard of women taking their bras off while hiking.
IMO they didn't take their bras off. They were taken off when the girls were being raped. The bras were then kept as souvenirs.
@@benitolonard4441that's possible, but if they did take them off, it could've been because they were going swimming, or they were very hot and decided to remove some clothing.
@@evafleury5538 Of course that is possible too
I think they got lost. Probably took their bras off as they can be very uncomfortable. Awful tradgedy!!!
To make it seem a a sex crime had happened to them.... IMO they never went out in the jungle by themselves (with Lisanne feeling very poorly that day). Their phones were "found" after a month or more - dry and still intact - in the wilderness. As well as their camera. Everything we think we know about this case is based on this fact. What - if it is fake? ......???
The creepy photo of the back of a bleeding head does not make sense if they were lost. I could see someone trying unlock the phone using the finger of unconscious girl, which may have snapped a random photo. If there were any photos of the guide or any potential suspects, on the girls cameras, they'd likely want to remove it.
Follow up examination of the photo show there was no blood, it was just the way it looked.
And who has clean fresh looking hair after 8 days of sleeping rough in a forest?
she was using the flash to see how bad the cut was.
@@lyndoncmp5751
anyone who washed it in water or kept it tied up.
JD Zen
Nope.
Next.
M...my heart breaks at the thought of what these girls endured and the fear they felt not to mention the freaking cover up ...Mr Gonsalez you will get your day sir....
Glad this video was made. I mention this case a lot but find more and more so that people consider this not to be a mysterious case, but a case of getting lost/hurt and then succumbing to the environment. I do not feel this is the strongest theory, but the gonzalez family being involved is. Feels so much like a big cover up has taken place. May those poor women rip.
Yes, i very much agree. Guide F. Gonzales is so creepy.
This is Surely Murder crime.
Yeah, when you read the wikipedia page on the two ladies, it leads you to think, Kris fell to her death, or fell and succumbed to injury, and Lisanne tried helplessly to call for emergency services and was lost, the pictures make you think they are taking them as she is walking for lighting purposes, and maybe recall of areas. But then, you watch something like this, and it makes you want to know the full truth, the investigation carried out clarified nothing. I hope those two angels are resting well. 👼
I have a video on my channel about this case.
09:00 - it was not another man that went with the tour guide to the host family of these girls to ransack their bedroom, but a German intern worker named Eileen Witek. Feliciano's son Henry is his stepson. He does not have multiple sons. She spoke some Dutch also. For those interested in more case details, I have a channel here and a big blog series with all the case info, which can be found under Koude Kaas Cold Case blog.
This is shocking. Panama is NOT a safe place. May they both rest in peace.
This picture of Kris's hair is not the same as the picture I have seen on other channels. It actually looks more like hair that has been in the jungle for days unlike the more publicized picture of clean pristine hair.
If I had been the person who did the crimes I would go on trip advisor every so often and post negative reviews about the tour guide to point the investigation towards him.
Ok. However not all criminals are that smart, some don't even know how to write properly.
Why are there no pictures later of the girls, why no video recording of them maybe saying goodbye or something ??
Its so weird...
He looks creepy as hell.
It seems a few things were added to this video to dramatize the story. For example, I've never seen a pic with blood oozing from the temple of Kris. This is already an intriguing and mysterious case. No need to add misinformation.
Well that was a lot more information that I've never heard before. The guide, his card, and his visit to the host family. I never heard that one of their call attempts actually did go through.
2 of their calls went thru actually.
neither was a call for help.
No I didn't either, and I am from The Netherlands! Such a nasty case isnt it?
@@saartjesdiner
no... not really
@@jdzen8548 why would you say that?
Sarah
Because he's trolling and knows nothing about this case.
Yeah they were attacked and taken away, theres been other cases of this too many really to document and the fact their belongings were found weeks later in good condition and it looks like the body parts were planted, suspect as...
I am watching this case of Chris and Lisan since more than ten years. Nothing is more sad than this tragedy in Panama. I suppose we never get closer to what happened. I only want to say that this story has very deeply and forever impacted my life. These girls are part of my life - foreever and ever.
It's 9 years old tho
I have no doubt he was a perv, but a murderer is a big step up. Perhaps could be the gang which included his son was involved and he helped to cover it up.
@@markgunther2502 i think same
I feel the same way too.
They didn't even take insect repellent with them!
One thing is not mentioned, the deleted photo 509 in a way that can bi done only on computer on 8th April.
it could have been a malfunction in the camera
They didn't "vanish without a trace" at all...
My country is next to Panama. Both Costa Rica and Panama are dangerous countries mostly due to the lack of profesional preventive police forces a lots of poor people. Most likely those girls thought they were safe as in Europe..RIP.
@belialah - I thought Costa Rica had a reputation for being quite safe compared to other countries in the region, like Honduras and El Salvador?
@@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 El Salvador is in this moment the safest country in all latin América. Honduras Is still pretty dangerous however Costa Rica Is getting close. When I was a kid in the 90s u rarely hear about a murder. Nowdays there are around 3 murders daily here...most of those because of gangs motivated by drug trafic.
Nothing was stolen from the girls.
I will always suspect that guide after reading the review of his tour left by a single woman traveling alone. She was legit scared of him and strongly recommended that NO woman go anywhere with him alone. They covered up the murders to protect the precious tourism trade. boils my blood that nothing was ever done.
很明顯的，這就是一起謀殺案，也許也跟活摘器官交易有關，兩位女孩生前的最後一刻應遭受了很多痛苦對待。
For me, this case is RIGHT Up there along the same lines of "mystery" as Madeline McCann + Jon Benet Ramsey.s cases.
This and Lars Mittank and debanhi escobar gives me the most chills.
Not really a mystery concerning Madeline McCann. She was never abducted, she sadly died in the apartment and her parents Kate and Gerry McCann covered up her death, and disposed of her body. Portuguese police inspector Gonçalo Amaral knew exactly what happened from the moment he entered the apartment after she so say went missing, and there was evidence of a clean up having taken place, and a strong smell of bleach. Cadaver and blood dogs indicated on Cadaver and blood in the apartment, and also in the hire car the McCanns rented some weeks later. I think they used the car to dispose of her body.
There's no mystery for.Maddy , she almost certainly died in that apartment . Weeks later cadaver dogs reacted to human decomposition smell there and.also in car rented by the parents
@@djolivierastro 100%
@@nnananananalars
I theorized this 5 years ago. Keep it going.
I fully agree .Until the panamanian government launches a full scale investigation and the law enforcement authorities are directed to exercise the law to bring in all suspects specially that very fishy tour guide and bring the culprits to book,panama should be on the red alert for tourists.I was contemplating a visit to Latin America very much,but after hearing this panamanian horror I have given up on this.Ugh!
Sounds like dangerous place. Not meant for tourists obviously
I lived in the Republic of Panama for two years, and while many things there are beautiful, especially the beaches.....there is no serial killer in the world as dangerous as the jungle. A few steps off the path and you can be lost forever. Please be very careful if you visit.
Nowhere to get lost on that path though, and they weren't into exploring off trail. Someone took them.
@@lyndoncmp5751 ??? They weren't into exploring off trail? How do you know this? Taking a few simple steps off path is something anyone could do. "Nowhere to get lost on this path" said many a hiker who ended up in trouble. You can get lost on any path.
Dragonflie79
WE KNOW this because every single picture they took that day shows them squarely ON the trail. There is not even one picture showing them even a tad off the trail. Lisanne was a shutter bug and she documented their hike that day via a pictorial record. Lisanne would have most definitely taken pictures of any exciting ventures off trail. There aren't any. Nor would two young woman in shorts and tank tops be exploring off trail. They weren't dressed for it.
You have to use logic and evidence here. Not a jot of evidence they were into exploring off trail. Facts to the contrary actually.
Dragonflie79,
So who else on that trail has got lost, never been found and ended up dead? No, you cannot get lost on 'any' trail and as an experienced hiker I know this.
In fact the most confusing part of the trail where you might take the wrong path is actually on the way UP to the Mirador summit, according to those who have hiked it. That Kris and Lisanne DIDN'T take the wrong path at the most confusing section and reached the Mirador in good time points towards them being fairly well orientated and able to follow it. Once over the summit you go down again. At the point in picture 508 you clearly go back UP the trail to the Mirador to go home. You don't start going off onto tiny side bush trails, dense in undergrowth.... in shorts. Two people hiking together won't get confused and disorientated there. It's a well defined main path all the way to the open meadow spot and beyond......which of course there is no record of them ever reaching willingly. It's a perfect picture opportunity. Yet no pictures.
what nationality are you?
Obviously Panama is gonna cover for their people. The tour guide obviously did it. He knows the area too well, this he would know where to plant items where nobody else would find them. So he could be like, “Look at what I found!” But he’s very old, so I’m very confused to how he could kill two young, able bodied women. Probably pushed them off a cliff judging off of the picture of the hair and the way the head was positioned.
I wonder if you would be that quick to accuse someone of multiple murders, sexual assault and conspiracy if this person lived in your country and could sue you for defamation.
Not to even mention the deleted photo. If you watched the revisit with their family on dutch tv you can see that its impossible to go off path . Atleast one of them was decently experienced at hiking. They didnt bring the right things for such a long hike. Theres a reason they suddenly went off the path into the dense jungle. To me its obvious they were trying to run away from someone. Also their belongings were so clearly planted.
ah yeah good point
That family definitely have something to do with those two ladies. May they rest in peace
I saw about these girls on another channel last night.. it's so tragic... they should've never left their guide to go exploring on their own but they did and some think they were murdered, I do tbh and some think they succumbed to the elements and one had an accident.. I hope one day the truth will be told... rip girls 😢😢
In my opinion, Feliciano might be the killer.
He is the closest person to new tourists. If he is a creep that doesn't like when girls/women say “no” to him, he could be aggressive towards them to the point of the worst scenarios.
He knows the surroundings and forest very well. He could, just like an animal, plan the hunt and isolate potential victim/s in the unknown for them area/s. And then he could kill, play a little to make it look like an accident, go back whenever he wants to check things and arrange them.
He is the guide, so no one would be surprised to see him at the “weird” areas, he can go to the tourists rooms without being considered as suspicious. And he is trying to be everywhere, to play nice, to play good Samaritan. He helps the staff, he helps the police, he talks with media, he is all the time close to the case and can domineer it as he likes.
If he is the killer, he is doing that for years, maybe since he is working there.
And maybe he has some help, or had, since a lot of gang members were already killed.
It's either him, or his son's gang. I believe that he just covers up for his son.
It has to be Feliciano. When you consider all the evidence, he fits perfectly. Dude's a creep
@@EdWard-ie5wn Why so many guys from the gang died mysteriously then ? I think it's Feliciano's son, but yeah it's possible that it's just Feliciano...
The parents of one of the girls hiked the trail they got lost on, it was also filmed...there is practically no way you could get lost there. Plus the theory that they actually returned and met with those local boys and they killed them is making way more sense than it should. Photos with the boys later from that day from which you cant tell that it is them 100% but everything from hair color, skin color (they were obviously very white compared to the local population), to their heights (Froon was 184cm tall and the girl in the picture was really tall...tell me how many 180+ cm tall women live in Panama? 3?) and shape of bodies and even shape of their faces ...everything matches, and the fact that two of the boys died mysteriously soon after the girls disappeared....This is one of my favorite true crime mysteries. I am always skeptical when it comes to wild theories but I don't think I have ever come across one that would make more sense (maybe 9/11 lol)
The fact they called for help repeatedly means they were either lost! or knew they were in danger. Maybe knew people were looking for them!
They only called for help once each that first afternoon/evening/night. Very odd if they were lost or had an accident. They would have kept trying, unless somebody then took their phones off them.
Maybe somebody was using their phones to make it look like they were calling for help
It's odd that when they finally connected to 911, they didn't spam call it right after it disconnected. Seems like if they were lost they would have called 911 over and over right after connecting and then the call dropping.
They would have definitely made a video if this was the case
@@violetlunna
Or taken pictures of their predicament during those days.
He and another man were in the girl's room for 30 min, unobserved? Was there a computer, a laptop? He could have deleted the missing photo on the camera there and then, if he had the girls. He could have made the last strange photos too. Bit I don'r want to accuse him of anything. I don't know him.
Exactly TOO MANY COINCEDENCES surrounding this man!!!
So this tour guide for whatever reason didnt decide to go and do the walk without them looking for them straight away? But went to their rooms to snoop. Hmmm
That's crazy I never knew about all the different people who were killed involved with the case..
They say that the prosecutor claimed that it was a hiking accident, when no evidence of such a case was found. My question is, what proof is there that they were murdered? Because an Internet user gets it into their head that it was a crime or their RUclips video attracts more attention and has more followers, they say things that they did not investigate or read official reports from Panama and Holland. A country like Holland, they believe, would want two of its citizens to be murdered and leave everything just like that. Or their families? Think a little, reason, look beyond the easiest. I went through that, I was more attracted to believing that someone harassed and murdered them than an accident, but I didn't stay with that and I continued searching until I believed more in the accident. But only they know what really happened to them and they can't tell it.
During lockdowns in 2022 440 people disappeared in Panama.
I think for some reason they drifted off their intended path, got lost in the jungle, and then were eaten by a family of polar bears. It's the most logical theory imo.
What polar bears do you find in tropical rain forests?The only beast I can think of is one with two legs!!
😂
Thanks for the video, I’ve always said this case was due to FOUL PLAY! Sometimes you just have to go with your gut feeling. The mystery of this would be solved with just one little clue, I feel…much like Jonbenet Ramsey’s death or the Black Dahlia. I’m so glad that I’m not alone in seeing there’s something we’re not being told.
It was Ramsay's brother....
The corrupt should know their days are numbered
If they did go missing why did it take weeks to find some of their belongings?
They were looking for girls in the wrong place.
It's nice to hear Lisanne's name pronounced correctly. Such a sad story. I don't think for a minute the girls deaths were an accident. AndI do think that the perps. were taken care of.
I agree with you. The murderers were murdered too. This is their way of doing things in Panama. Taxi driver was the informant. 🚖
2:08
😂😂😂
"...when the dog returned alone."
Doggo said, "F*ck this shit, I'm out."
You think this is funny?
There is zero mystery except people monetizing off them. They took a picture of the bridge she fell at u can clearly see the white cable in the background. They took a picture beneath it n the bones were found down river of the bridge!?! Crazy how yall are making money of the poor family. The one who lived used her phone until it ran out n then tried the other girls but didn't know the code. So simple. Make your money though make your money
organ trafficking
He probably went into their room for half an hour to delete the picture 509 off the camera permanently. It couldn't be retrieved.
Why only delete that photograph? Are the other phtographs real, then?
In all other photographs the time was changed. Yet, you would take them for granted?
Жалко, что никто и никогда не узнает, что на самом деле с ними произошло.
Возможно, узнает. Иногда подобные расследования длятся десятилетиями и находят истинные причины произошедшего.
abwarten
Humans and animals should not mix.
The cutting off a leg comment does seem suggestive of the guide's involvement along with his alleged interest in foreign girls. The number of people killed who were related to this case also suggest foul play. It is such a haunting and tragic case with those two vibrant young girls meeting some type of horrible fate. The syndrome of the arsonist returning to the crime scene seems at play with the guide reporting the girls missing and being involved in the rescue mission.
It's sucks so bad there was no DNA on any of these items. Did they ever check that?? I just saw a case in Idaho where a killer was caught by a tiny tiny piece of DNA on a buckle clasp. I bet my left nut this crazy family left their DNA all over these items. Where are they now? Who has them?
In another video I saw that the backpack, phones and camera had like 6-12 fingerprints or partly fingerprints on them but they couldn't find anything based on them and also that the investigators never wore gloves or anything. The really half assed the whole thing…
I feel foul play for sure!
F did that for sure because he is above the law.
Read up about this case the cops barely analysised the photos I just zoomed in on some and saw 2 photos with figures.. so how do the police miss this ...