A quick note here, this is an FRLR speaker and as such isn't really supposed to be mic'd, but we did it anyway to try and give a close(ish) approximation to what the speaker does. Also, some of the distorted sounds I think are of a 5150, which in itself can have quite a distinctive sound. I wasn't always a huge fan of the 5150 (although I am a recent convert), in the room the Triple Cone actually sounded pretty close.
Seems like the natural mic to use for representing an FRFR or FRLR speaker in a video would be a measurement mic, something as simple as the Behringer ECM8000 from 10' away at real world band rehearsal volume, or possibly a PZM sitting in the room (???)
Thanks for all the info - first time I've heard of speakers specifically created for simulators and IR users. I believe however that I'll stick with my lovely tube amps running through a cab with 2 Celestions: a Vintage 30 and a beautifully warm 70's Greenback. But I learned something new today - so there's that 😀🙏
Would to hear this compared with the F12-x200 in a range of cab styles - a standard closed back 1x12 and your FRFR cab. I’ve got a F12-x200 that I’m looking to buy a cab for.
Yeah we should do that at some point. We were sent this on Wednesday so chucked it in a cab and gave it a blast... we'll do a more thorough video asap.
We have a few videos on it, we were one of the first to get samples back in probably September/October, but have been asked not to release anything until they are officially out. They sound great by the way.
There are a few questions that most people have: - Does it feel like an Amp in the Room (philosophical differences aside)? - Can you run a variety of cabs IR's through it and they sound good? - Can you run a variety of cabs IR's through it and they sound accurate ... or match FOH? - Do you need to tweak presets when you used this beyond what you do on a FRFR, PA, etc?
Good questions. I don't use modeling amps that much myself as for live they're not really my thing, useful but just not my thing. When I heard Joe playing through this in the room it was sounding pretty close to the amps it was supposed to, he used a 5150 setting and I would have spotted that as a 5150. I've never been that blown away by FRFR and going through a PA is kind of a little unfair as there is an array of speakers to cover all the frequency bands. In short its a decent compromise, it's probably the best speaker for this kind of stuff that I've heard and this was a quick test remember, just chucked in the nearest cab.
That's very kind of you. Joe who made the videos left and then we got super busy. We are actually about to relaunch the channel, we've got nine videos in the bag and have upped the game a little with a production team (all still in house).
I just noticed I called it the Celestion Triple Crown in the video. Must’ve been optimistically thinking about the rugby. 👍🏻🏴 Really impressed with this speaker.
@@CelestionUK that’s great, and do you mind explaining what the difference is between the F12M and the X200? I was getting ready to order the X200, and this kind of confuses things for me. I appreciate the reply!
I'd like to try a couple of these. My X200s are really good, but the high end takes a lot of tweaking to control on the presets, the highs are definitely there. I've been playing one amp with a X200 for about a year, and I'd say it is warming up really well. So take that in to consideration when you get them new. I check my presets on a set of Dynaudio LYD 48 (Helix floor). And the idea is to match that in a combo form. The high end can follow, no problem. But I don't think it's necessary in the combos, but the FOH still need the full range, so maybe the Triple cones will be plenty... FWIW
@@brucedickinson8993Well interesting as I just saw your question 😉Here goes; I've run two Katana 112 mk 1 with X200 for a little over a year now and have been very pleased. At first I had them tilted at floor level and now have them on stands, so I have adjusted the global eq. on my Helix to give a little more bottom end. For acoustic simulations and ambient sounds nothing can beat it. But I was missing the tubefactor especially on the treble, so I tested an ENGL screamer combo with a Triplecone and that was the sweet spot (running only the output stage). So now my next move is to put Triplecone in 2 Marshall DSL20CR the same way, and see what sounds the best to me. I might end up using all 4 combos, X200 Katana - DSL20 Triplecone for the fullest biggest sound I can imagine, I will know in about 2 weeks 😁
It can but you'd have to turn the cab sims off. The Redback is a traditional guitar speaker so would sound really bad with the speaker emulation etc on.
Pardon for this dumb question, but if these kinds of speakers are not supposed to be mic'd, how can you play with this in a live band setting in a very large venue while your bandmate's cabs are mic'd?
So I'm getting ready to build two celestion spec cabs and get a pair of f12-x200. Then I saw these came out. Would this speaker really be a better choice? I mean it's just basically a whizzer cone right? Isn't a good coaxial driver the better way to go? What's your personal preference between the two? Was going to power the f12-x200s with a 330w per side class A/B crown amp for extra headroom. I'm running an axefx3. I'd appreciate your honest take on my situation. Thank you.
@@brucedickinson8993 diy celestion spec cabs loaded with f12-x200 freaking rock! Best axefx3 rig ive had. Feels like a real amp. Powered with a behringer epx4000 class H 530watts per channel.
@@justincase9173 thanks! I'll made my cab with @roxstage here in Brazil, the diy model for F12 x200, i hope that i did a good choise, it's very expensive here
This is the first time I have heard a mic'd frfr cab sound anything like a real guitar cab, sounds so much better than the F12-X200 demo you did. How does it feel and sound in the room compared to a real cab, and the F12-X200? P.s. Also hoping Pivac can get the boys playing again, but then again I'm also hoping you are going to send me one of your cabs on long term (30 years) trial 😉
Thanks John, we haven't really had loads of time with this speaker, we were sent it in the middle of the week and we chucked it in the closest cab on Thursday. I first heard it on Friday morning and without much eq-ing or fiddling it was sounding pretty good. We used a valve power amp which from experience tends to make them sound a bit more musical but a lot of those speakers tend to need the eq fiddling with, this one was sounding pretty close from the pre-sets. Put it this way, on a pretty much blind test I didn't find it that hard to spot what amp it was supposed to be. The 5150 actually sounded really close.
Isn’t the F12M supposed to be a cheaper budget model of the F12?? God damn this modeling world, seriously. I’m getting furious trying to find a happy way to have an amp experience.
I hope it's better than the F12-X200, I modified two of your 1x12 cabs with vents and put them in to replace my Yamaha DXR10 mkII Helix LT speakers. They were terrible!! Compared to the great sounding Yamahas they were fizzy and awful sounding and they went back in a hurry along with the HoTone Loudster Portable Power Amp. ==> back to Greenbacks and tube amps for band use 😀
Mine are warming up after a year of use. I run two solid state combos, power stage only. I would like however to try to run them with tube amp powerstages, it's an expense I don't need but I'd like to hear the result.
whoah realizing we were close mic'd wi[th a 57 nearly rebootted my OS when i realized how good [this was sounding wi[th a modeler in[to FRFR (no[t a[t al0l0 i knowL) wi[th a 57 on cone. id l0ove [to check ou[t your research buil0ding cabs wi[th [these
A quick note here, this is an FRLR speaker and as such isn't really supposed to be mic'd, but we did it anyway to try and give a close(ish) approximation to what the speaker does. Also, some of the distorted sounds I think are of a 5150, which in itself can have quite a distinctive sound. I wasn't always a huge fan of the 5150 (although I am a recent convert), in the room the Triple Cone actually sounded pretty close.
Yeah, it must be pretty hard to demo this kind of speakers (FRFR and such). How does it compare to the Kemper Kone in your opinion?
How would this compare to a Kemper Kone for us Powered Kemper users? I was just about to buy one when I saw this video.
6:31 metal 7:06 some rhythmic testing
channel is getting better and better. great playing btw!
Thanks Joe, glad you like it. Joe can really play.
I have an very old crate solid state combo. Thinking of swapping the crap speaker to this and using it with my helix. What do you think?
One of the best video since you have clean and overdrive tones on display
Seems like the natural mic to use for representing an FRFR or FRLR speaker in a video would be a measurement mic, something as simple as the Behringer ECM8000 from 10' away at real world band rehearsal volume, or possibly a PZM sitting in the room (???)
Thanks for all the info - first time I've heard of speakers specifically created for simulators and IR users.
I believe however that I'll stick with my lovely tube amps running through a cab with 2 Celestions: a Vintage 30 and a beautifully warm 70's Greenback.
But I learned something new today - so there's that 😀🙏
the heavy tones are brutal
Brutal good or brutal bad? In the room it was sounding not that far away from a 5150.
@@ZillaCabs very good proper chunk, despite as you said mic-ing it isn’t ideal, great job on the vids guys.
Great demo, Joe. Did you personally get any of the feeling of playing through a regular guitar speaker when you did this?
I'll get Joe to reply here, but he called me in on Friday morning to have a listen. The 5150 sound was uncanny.
Oh and thanks for sending the speaker out. I'm looking forward to properly testing it.
That last tone was awesome! Really cool stuff with these speakers :). Great playing!
Sounds amazing, even on my Smartphone.
Would to hear this compared with the F12-x200 in a range of cab styles - a standard closed back 1x12 and your FRFR cab. I’ve got a F12-x200 that I’m looking to buy a cab for.
Yeah we should do that at some point. We were sent this on Wednesday so chucked it in a cab and gave it a blast... we'll do a more thorough video asap.
What a player, great jibs
Yeah he's good isn't he.
Please demo the Celestion Hempback!
We have a few videos on it, we were one of the first to get samples back in probably September/October, but have been asked not to release anything until they are officially out. They sound great by the way.
Nice sounds/tone you got good review
There are a few questions that most people have:
- Does it feel like an Amp in the Room (philosophical differences aside)?
- Can you run a variety of cabs IR's through it and they sound good?
- Can you run a variety of cabs IR's through it and they sound accurate ... or match FOH?
- Do you need to tweak presets when you used this beyond what you do on a FRFR, PA, etc?
Good questions. I don't use modeling amps that much myself as for live they're not really my thing, useful but just not my thing. When I heard Joe playing through this in the room it was sounding pretty close to the amps it was supposed to, he used a 5150 setting and I would have spotted that as a 5150. I've never been that blown away by FRFR and going through a PA is kind of a little unfair as there is an array of speakers to cover all the frequency bands. In short its a decent compromise, it's probably the best speaker for this kind of stuff that I've heard and this was a quick test remember, just chucked in the nearest cab.
yes just ordered my fatbaby 1x12 150w celestion redback ,,
Hi Paul, I have that cab on my bench right now being prepped for toelxing tomorrow.
This channel is perfect, what happened? no more videos in 2 years, all is ok?
That's very kind of you. Joe who made the videos left and then we got super busy. We are actually about to relaunch the channel, we've got nine videos in the bag and have upped the game a little with a production team (all still in house).
I just noticed I called it the Celestion Triple Crown in the video. Must’ve been optimistically thinking about the rugby. 👍🏻🏴
Really impressed with this speaker.
I thought you said that hahaha.... I accidentally called it a tripe cone in a post which I think is the worst of the three names.
LOL Triple Crown is a great name, though!
Is it a worthwhile upgrade from a cheap plastic PA? I’m near giving up on modeling for jams.
@@justinTime077We think it will give you a more authentic playing experience than using a PA cab (or something similar to that.)
@@CelestionUK that’s great, and do you mind explaining what the difference is between the F12M and the X200? I was getting ready to order the X200, and this kind of confuses things for me. I appreciate the reply!
my 10 inch headrush frfr speaker is broke, so i am looking for the best sounding speaker for replace the broke one
I'd like to try a couple of these. My X200s are really good, but the high end takes a lot of tweaking to control on the presets, the highs are definitely there. I've been playing one amp with a X200 for about a year, and I'd say it is warming up really well. So take that in to consideration when you get them new. I check my presets on a set of Dynaudio LYD 48 (Helix floor). And the idea is to match that in a combo form. The high end can follow, no problem. But I don't think it's necessary in the combos, but the FOH still need the full range, so maybe the Triple cones will be plenty... FWIW
So what you decided? Which one of them are better?
@@brucedickinson8993Well interesting as I just saw your question 😉Here goes; I've run two Katana 112 mk 1 with X200 for a little over a year now and have been very pleased. At first I had them tilted at floor level and now have them on stands, so I have adjusted the global eq. on my Helix to give a little more bottom end. For acoustic simulations and ambient sounds nothing can beat it. But I was missing the tubefactor especially on the treble, so I tested an ENGL screamer combo with a Triplecone and that was the sweet spot (running only the output stage). So now my next move is to put Triplecone in 2 Marshall DSL20CR the same way, and see what sounds the best to me. I might end up using all 4 combos, X200 Katana - DSL20 Triplecone for the fullest biggest sound I can imagine, I will know in about 2 weeks 😁
Modeling speaker shootout time??? ;-)
P.S. Your playing is fantastic!
Possibly in the future. Thanks for the kind words, I will tell Joe.
This sounds good
Thanks, glad you like it.
F12 x200 or this?
*1:10**... The two extra cones inside the main cone are not, **_"Tweeters..."_** They are called, **_"Whizzer Cones..."_*
HI Everyone...can the Redback be used as an alternate to F12-x200 and the new F12M-150 for modelling devices?
It can but you'd have to turn the cab sims off. The Redback is a traditional guitar speaker so would sound really bad with the speaker emulation etc on.
How does it compare to the F12-X200?
Pardon for this dumb question, but if these kinds of speakers are not supposed to be mic'd, how can you play with this in a live band setting in a very large venue while your bandmate's cabs are mic'd?
do you go direct to FOH with your amp sim?
If you are using these you already have signal that can be sent to FOH instead of a mic'ed signal.
So I'm getting ready to build two celestion spec cabs and get a pair of f12-x200. Then I saw these came out. Would this speaker really be a better choice? I mean it's just basically a whizzer cone right? Isn't a good coaxial driver the better way to go? What's your personal preference between the two? Was going to power the f12-x200s with a 330w per side class A/B crown amp for extra headroom. I'm running an axefx3. I'd appreciate your honest take on my situation. Thank you.
Ao what you decided?
@@brucedickinson8993 diy celestion spec cabs loaded with f12-x200 freaking rock! Best axefx3 rig ive had. Feels like a real amp. Powered with a behringer epx4000 class H 530watts per channel.
@@justincase9173 thanks! I'll made my cab with @roxstage here in Brazil, the diy model for F12 x200, i hope that i did a good choise, it's very expensive here
This is the first time I have heard a mic'd frfr cab sound anything like a real guitar cab, sounds so much better than the F12-X200 demo you did.
How does it feel and sound in the room compared to a real cab, and the F12-X200?
P.s. Also hoping Pivac can get the boys playing again, but then again I'm also hoping you are going to send me one of your cabs on long term (30 years) trial 😉
Thanks John, we haven't really had loads of time with this speaker, we were sent it in the middle of the week and we chucked it in the closest cab on Thursday. I first heard it on Friday morning and without much eq-ing or fiddling it was sounding pretty good. We used a valve power amp which from experience tends to make them sound a bit more musical but a lot of those speakers tend to need the eq fiddling with, this one was sounding pretty close from the pre-sets. Put it this way, on a pretty much blind test I didn't find it that hard to spot what amp it was supposed to be. The 5150 actually sounded really close.
Isn’t the F12M supposed to be a cheaper budget model of the F12??
God damn this modeling world, seriously. I’m getting furious trying to find a happy way to have an amp experience.
Look at the curve chart. This speaker has a high end roll off with will sound more like a guitar speaker
I hope it's better than the F12-X200, I modified two of your 1x12 cabs with vents and put them in to replace my Yamaha DXR10 mkII Helix LT speakers.
They were terrible!! Compared to the great sounding Yamahas they were fizzy and awful sounding and they went back in a hurry along with the HoTone Loudster Portable Power Amp.
==> back to Greenbacks and tube amps for band use 😀
Mine are warming up after a year of use. I run two solid state combos, power stage only. I would like however to try to run them with tube amp powerstages, it's an expense I don't need but I'd like to hear the result.
Hey where's the blonde guy?
haha that's me, we are having to keep our distance because of covid. I'll be back.
@@ZillaCabs Glad to read from the man himself! Keep it up guys! I love your channel!
whoah realizing we were close mic'd wi[th a 57 nearly rebootted my OS when i realized how good [this was sounding wi[th a modeler in[to FRFR (no[t a[t al0l0 i knowL) wi[th a 57 on cone. id l0ove [to check ou[t your research buil0ding cabs wi[th [these