Lightweight All-Terrain Wheel-Tire Combo for your Subaru
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- Опубликовано: 28 фев 2022
- Every pound of wheel-tire weight reduction is the same as reducing the overall vehicle weight by 20lbs. By loosing 19 pounds at each corner, the car "feels" 1,520 pounds lighter. This is because wheel-tire weight not only moves down the road, but it also has to be "spun-up" and "spun-down" when you accelerate and brake. I'm happy to answer your wheel and tire questions in the comments section. My Forester is a 2019 Premium.
#nomadgrappler
www.nittotire.com/suv-cuv-tir... 
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Solid wheel and tire combo🤘🏼 Great info!
Great video, awesome detail on parts and tools!
Thanks!
Omg I’m so glad you pointed out the scratching on black wheels.. you just convinced me to not go black. Those enkei look amazing, and might just be my Cho for the outback. Price on them is reasonable as well
I'm so happy you made a video on these I'm getting ready to lift my 14 2.5i premium and want to put these on there
Right on! Yeah, I'm so freakin' happy with these wheels and tires!
Great video and nice ride. Thanks for the lesson on wheels tires and weight. I’ve been thinking about tire for our Land Rover. I’ll keep the nittos in mind
Glad to hear that it was informative! Nitto has other tires for big 4x4s like your Land Rover.
Looks great mate, looking forward to seeing them in action!
Thanks 👍 I'll give em' the business as soon as possible! haha
Thanks, I was considering the grappler and now I’m sold.
They are rad! You’ll love them! After testing them in the mud, I sold my KO2s when I got home. That reminds me, I need to finish editing that video, haha.
Loved all the specs you gave out regarding weight on the tire/rim👍🏼 subbed!
Awesome, thank you!
They look great! Those grapplers are nice.
Thanks! I had KO2s like you, but these new tires are a better match for my little AWD vehicle.
Subscribed! I like your style of vids man
Many thanks! 😄
Great information and video 👍
Thank you!
I've always wondered what those dots are for on my tires. Thanks for the info!
Here is a little more info on the dots that I omitted for simplicity. My tires didn't have any red dots, but they would have indicated a flat side and they would take priority and get mounted by the valve instead of the yellow dot.
Great info Matt!
Thanks Bruce!
I really like these tires on the highway they are quiet. So far sandy, gravely, fire roads are no problem. Will see how they do in the snow this winter.
Me too! They really are fantastic all around! They were clearly designed for vehicles our size!
Very well done.
Thanks! 😄 I understood all the factors a lot more the second time around, haha.
Enkei RPF-1 have been around for so long. Still one of the best.
Amen! I love the RPF1! Fun fact: i replaced the factory wheels and tires that came on my new forester wilderness with RPF1s and nomad grapplers and saved 5.4 pounds per corner AND the tires are 1.9” taller and 0.7” wider!
Great content!
Thank you!
I'm looking forward to more updates about these tires. Between these and the new Nokian Outpost tires, my tire decision after these Kumho AT51s wear out is going to be hard to make.
We are planning another off-road camping trip soon, so you won't have to wait long to see the trail test!
Great video, I've subscribed! Wonder if this will work for my '16 OB
Yeah, but your fenders are larger so you can actually fit a slightly larger tire. Check out this useful table: www.rallitek.com/blog/lifted-subaru-tire-size-chart/
Your video gave me the confidence to swap to 245/65/17 Nomad grapplers on my outback! The stock 225/65/17 geolandars AT's felt vague cornering and weren't great off road even when aired down. The Nomad grapplers are super responsive in steering and makes the vehicle feel lively. They also seem to have much more traction on the dirt! I noticed a highway MPG drop from 26mpg-> 24.5mpg and an around town 16mpg>-15mpg. Road noise is maybe 15% louder than geolandars. It is noticeable if you look for it, but it easily fades into the background with music and doesn't bother me! Overall the tires give me a lot more confidence on and off road. They provide a half inch increase in ground clearance and ride height and also fill out the wheel wells much better! The outback looks and feels confident and sturdy now!
For daily driving on pavement, Subaru recommends running the stock 225 geolandars (1874 lb load limit @ 51psi) at 35psi cold.
The 245 Nomads have a load rating of 2403 lb @ 50psi.
Calculations for the conversion from stock tire pressure to new tire pressure with larger volume and increased load limit show:
35psi*(1874lb/2403lb) *(51psi/50psi) = 27.8psi
27.8psi cold seems a little low. I'd be concerned about sidewall flex and tire roll so I've been running mine at 30psi. What have you found to work best for you?
Update: Nitto says 31psi front 29psi rear
That tire pressure finding is an interesting result. I switched from regular size highway tires on my Honda Element in 215/70r16 to 235/70r16 Nokian Outpost ATs. One inch larger than stock, and something like .75in wider. I ended up having to go higher on my pressure, to 40 front and rear. Seems to be a good middle of the road pressure to have a full contact patch on the tread width, without being too long. If only Nitto made 16" Nomad Grapplers, but the Nokians have been fantastic. About the same noise as the winter tires I was running previously, but much more durable sidewalls (big deal for me being in Colorado with sharp rocks everywhere) and a lot more offroad grip. I'm guessing the stiffer sidewall also helped my handling, since it's much sharper in my experience too.
sj here, I also went this route but I chose 16x7 +35 rpf1s with 235/70/16 firestone destination at2s which are 29 lbs per tire (43-44 lbs total)... upgrading your brakes with either the 4 pots or the brembos would be a good move to help shed some more unsprung mass. 2 piece rotors are big weight savers too!
Awesome!
I just put on 235/65/r17 destination AT2 for this exact reason, low weight. Haven't put them to the test yet, but looking forward to it.
This Forester looks awesome!!! I have ‘22 Premium and haven’t upgraded wheels/tires yet. I have not lifted my Premium. Is your Forester lifted with factory Subaru lift or after-market lift?
Thanks! I have the Ironman Suspension that provides a 2" lift, its really only 1.5" after the springs settle, but the KEY thing is that the ironman struts are longer, so you get more travel and articulation. You can use their winter sale coupon SNOW2023 to save 25%. This makes it $1,050 for the complete suspension.
I put 235/65R17 Falken Wildpeak AT Trails on my stock 2017 Outback bac, in Feb 22. Ever so slight MPG diff. and honestly don't notice any additional noise, but definitely noticed improved performance on snow and on dirt trails. I went with Wildpeak Trail over KO2 or Geolander others seemed to be buying so I didn't add much weight but got the benefit of a little sturdier construction and grip. Sounds/looks like the Grapplers are pretty similar, I might have bought them if I'd seen this video but I'm happy with my choice. Thanks for the wheel suggestion, I'll probably do that too when I get around to doing a spring lift and increase the tire size, when the economy gets out of the ditch and I can afford it.
That's a good tire choice! Just so you know, your tires are slightly larger so you're going slightly farther for every rotation, so you MPHs are slightly better than the car's computer says. I'd like to caution you away from lift springs though. Unless you have a ton of gear, they are a bad idea. The springs are much stiffer and the ride is harsh, and most importantly you're articulation will suffer. With the car resting on level ground, you want the wheels to be at the mid point between full downward extension and full upward compression. I'd check to see if they make Ironman suspension for your 17' Outback. If you wait and catch a sale you can get it for $1050 including free shipping and no tax. You get 4 new struts and springs that are longer for more clearance and travel and articulation.
@@MatthewHeiskell Thanks! BTW I just learned that both Nomad Grappler and Wildpeak Trail differ on load rating depending on size, either SL or XL. Nomad mostly XL, but Wildpeaks vary a lot. Something to consider when adding weight to the vehicle, as well as pointing to tougher construction. Luckily my Wildpeak is XL but I didn't know to look for it when I bought it...
My 2016 Outback stock tire size is 225/65R17. Do 235's fit on the stock rim without a lift kit or any wheel well modifications? I saw these Nitto's on a Mazda the other day and really like the look and have read great reviews about them.
@@fast22fast you can go way bigger than that! Check out this tire size guide: rallitek.com/pages/lifted-subaru-tire-size-chart-1 Also, TireRack is doing a $100 instant rebate when you buy 4 Nitto nomad grapplers right now.
@@MatthewHeiskell thanks for the prompt reply but that link you sent is "Lifted Subaru Tire Size Chart". I wasn't planning to get my subi lifted. Don't want to mess with suspension, drive train alignment and handling. I just want to know if the 235's fit on the stock rim without a lift kit and does not rub on suspension, wheel well or stock mud flaps.
Man i would have never thought rpf1s would look so good on an off-road rig 😅
Thanks! 😄 Apparently RPF1s look good on everything!
Thinking about getting the nomads for my 21 crosstrek sport. Might get 235/65R17 to go a bit wider and taller than stock on my stock wheels
Oh yeah! That will be great!
Great video. do you have any experience with the michelin crossclimate 2? I am trying to decide between those and the nomad grappler.
The Crossclimate 2 is a great on road tire, but it's not designed to go offroad. The sidewalls are much thinner and weaker than something like the Nomad Grappler. If you're looking to go offroad, then get the Nomads. If you're just looking for a tire that you can run year round in the snow and still look cool, get the Michelins.
How is your clearance to brake caliper? I'm torn between RPF1 and PF01.
Thanks for sharing this wealth of info!
Really helping me along to find an ideal set up for 23 Forester Wilderness.
Cheers
I have the larger front brake option on my Forester, you likely do too. There’s about a 1/4” of clearance between the brake and RPF1 wheel at the tightest spot. You certainly cannot fit anything smaller than a 17” wheel if you have the larger brakes. I’m happy to answer any additional questions!
Great. Thank you.
Glad you liked it! How's your Forester doing?
@@MatthewHeiskell
So far so good.
I plan to do some cosmetic changes like put black wrap on chrome parts etc but for now I'll be full stock. :)
I do like it though. It's a good fit for me.
@@valdius85 I recently added this cool piece! artsc.ocnk.net/phone/product/2911 It was a pain for me to get it, but it should be easy for you. It is nice soft rubber.
awesome setup, and enjoying the videos. Do you think 30inch tires would fit with the ironman 2 inch lift. Looking at 235/70R17
Maybe if you do some trimming and adjusting and if you use a +45 or +48 offset wheel. My 29.5” just barely fit. I had to do some heat gun adjusting and mud flap removal.
How does the load weight rating relate to your wheel (rim) choice? I assume the OE "snowflake pattern" (Enkie made) rim rating/strength is well above what Subaru thinks is good and safe for average driving conditions (presumably the manufacturer specification for whatever the OE rim load rating is, corresponds to the vehicle weight / 4, plus some margin for max. recommended passenger/cargo load, safety with common road hazards such as potholes, etc.). I've not been able to find what the later generations Forester OE wheel specifications in this regard are, or Subaru's metrics for that... So it's hard to have a baseline for this consideration, aside from just anecdotal evidence of what kind and models of rims are commonly used for offroad Subaru builds, professional and otherwise.
Often a lighter rim means less strength, at least until considering true forged alloys. Presumably a good tire with a taller profile on a smaller rim mitigates somewhat any valid concern about rim strength for offroading. Still, it'd be good for the average Subaru owner looking for real offroad capability upgrades to know this kind of thing. Reducing unsprung weight is great for performance and wear on the drivetrain and suspension components, but even a high quality light street performance rim may come at a real cost in terms of reliability for anything more than light offroad use.
Nice videos on your Forester. I wanted to know if you have the site for the lights you have in your grill?
Thanks! Yup, I got them on Amazon. amzn.to/3KajLyQ
Love your vids! Are you worried at all about the strength of the wheel with it being so light? Was that part of your selection process? Or is that some that is negligible?
That’s a good question. I’ve had a few people mention that, I should have addressed it in the video. Enkei has a fancy manufacturing process that aligns the grain of the metal to make them really strong and they also test the wheels to a standard that is above and beyond the legal requirement. And those tires have a ton of side wall to flex and absorb the impact. And the suspension can also flex and absorb impacts. Wheel damage is really only an issue when you hit a pot hole with low profile tires.
@@MatthewHeiskell Does this wheel come in a black or bronze finish?
I have a 2024 Subaru Crosstrek Limited on order. I am tired of swapping between a winter tire and snow tire, and kinda want to have a set of AT tires. I am debating between these tires and the Wildpeak Falken on either 17" wheels - 225/60-17 size so that I can use the spare (in a pinch) and still get an extra inch of sidewall, or just having them mounted 225/55/18 (stock size) on the stock wheels, and bagging up the stock tires till the end of the three year lease. If I am gonna end up buying tires on a 45K mile lease, might as well buy for myself in the beginning and give them their crap all-season back at the end, instead of buying them some expensive new tires at the end of the lease for someone else. I live in Northeast PA, and my driveway is snow and ice in the winter, a muddy mess in the spring, and dirt in the summer and fall. Which of those two would give me a little better ice traction? I know they're not winter tires, but would like a little better winter performance than the stock Falken Ziex tires. Thoughts?
Yeah, tires are so key! And you’ll use them over the 45k. Have you seen the cross climate 2 tire? That thing looks awesome. I don’t know much about winter tires though. Save the stock tires and give that junk back to them, haha
Mine is on the lift right now getting new tires, 40” light bar and a few small ones.
I got the suspension/lift on. ;)
That's awesome! Ironman suspension for the win! Please post some videos! Your Forester is going to be awesome!
@@MatthewHeiskell I know I have been doing most of the work by myself so forgetting to pick up phone and take videos.. I have a ton of pictures but I guess that doesn’t help on RUclips haha.
AP aventure big body grill with skid plates next.
I went with some TOYOs.. will post video when it comes off lift this evening :) 💪🏼🙌🏼
@@MatthewHeiskell You are right, the 2 inch spacers with the Iron Man suspension was too much. I couldn’t fit the one the arm back in.. it was close!! So I went on ADF and bought 1” spacers! Haha I have awning and RTT on . 🤷🏽♂️
@@MatthewHeiskell 245/70 17s what I went with. Had to do a small amount of fab/cutting.
Gonna be sexy :)
@@Subie_OffXroad Dude, that's awesome! same width as mine, but an inch taller. How much cutting and grinding did it take?
Great info..I like it alot.
But is that lightweight wheels strong enough for off roading?
I think so. Enkei uses a special manufacturing process that makes the wheels very strong. Also, the tires have a lot of sidewall to flex and absorb the impact. Most people who break wheels hit a bad pothole with low profile tires (thin sidewall).
Great video, thanks! I really appreciate your emphasis on weight - I roll the same way. Out in the PacNW the biggest problem is sharp #2 crushed rock logging roads that seem to readily puncture any "P" tire unless you just tip toe around at very slowest of speeds. And even then if you spin a tire it may get cut. I did have luck with 10 ply / Load Range E but absurdly heavy. I want to "rally" on these roads in my Subaru like I used to be able to do in the south west's more decomposed granite and sandy roads, but without the punctures every time out. I don't want to run a rally race tire. I have done that with Kumho rally tires, and they are terrific on the logging roads, but were ridiculously loud and only lasted about 5,000 miles of mostly street driving. Any suggestions?
Thanks! It sounds like you need something really durable and that usually comes with a weight penalty. Those KO2s I had for 2.5 years were heavy but super durable. You could at least use a strong and lightweight wheel.
@@MatthewHeiskell Yes KO2s GTG. I wish they had them is "C"load range that fit that would be a little bit lighter. I had the "E's" on my Wrangler and never had a puncture... though had 5 on the OEM tire set before them. One on the first day of ownership of the Jeep on the way home when I detoured through a forrest.
Nokian a/t
Looks great man! I have a 2021 Limited and have been following your channel eagerly as I plan out my own mods. Question for you on rim sizes, do you think it's possible to fit a 16" rim to get more sidewall, of is this pretty solidly our of the question? Also how did you verify that your tire/rim/offset combo would work before ordering? I really like the way that your setup still allows the tires to fit inside the fenders at full compression.
Hello James! You’re smart to want a smaller wheel to get more sidewall, but 17” is definitely the smallest that you can go and still clear the brakes. The key to fitting larger and wider 245/65R17 tires is to keep the wheel offset super close to the stock wheel offset of +48mm. My old black wheels and my new silver wheels have an offset of +45mm. So the wheel-tire combo sits outboard by 3mm. It’s weird, but the lower/smaller offset value, the more the wheel-tire pokes out. But if you want big tires with good clearance, the you need the wheel offset to be +50, +48, +45 or MAYBE +40.
@@MatthewHeiskell good to know. I'll probably run the exact geometry you are to avoid issues (minus the heat gun fix obv.). Looking forward to hearing about your camping trip and seeing how these do off-road. I live in Socal, so mud performance isn't really high on the priority list anyways and I'd love to not have to deal with the noise/efficiency hit of KO2s or Wildpeaks.
@@jameszandstra2138 Smart! Will do!
@@MatthewHeiskell Still loving these videos. I'm finally getting around to building out my Forester and was wondering where you keep your full-size spare? Measuring out the trunk well it seems like you could maybe just barely fit 245/65/R17 if you remove the trunk insert and deflate the tire. Is that how you run your setup?
wondering if you think you would have tire rubbing in the front wheel well?... if you still had that closed off with that size tire.
Just a tiny bit and only under specific and rare conditions. This is definitely the size to get for a 2019+ Forester. 245/65R17 But avoiding rubbing depends significantly on the wheel offset. Factory is +48mm and it provides the best clearance. My wheels are +45mm and are close enough. I recommend that you stick with one of those two offset values.
Love this video. I would like to copy your setup but with a 7.5 with rim but the same size tire as yours. Did you have to modify the wheel wells? Do you have any rubbing with that size tire?
Yeah, 7.5” wide will work too. Little to no rubbing with 245/65R17. If you do, it is minor and you can heat and soften the part of the wheel well that’s rubbing and push it out with a gloved hand. Totally worth it to get the extra ground clearance from the taller tires!
@@MatthewHeiskell Cool thx. Will get the rims and tires first then coilovers later. How do you like the Nitto nomad grapplers compared to the K02? on road and off road?
Hi Matthew. Thanks for the your videos. Could you tell me please, what is the maximum size of tire I can use for 18 inch wheels. I have Forester Sport
For an 18” wheel, the best tire size is 245/60R18
Good video. How is the wet braking of the Nitto Nomad Graplers relative to the stock tires on pavement? Same question as to g force they handle in curves for wet road driving and for dry road driving? Trying to decide on tires for Ascent with 90% road and 10% forest service/trail use. Wish there were quantitative comparisons of Nittto Nomad Grappler, Falken Wildpeak A/T Trail, and Yokahoma Geolander GO15
Good questions! I’m not a professional tire tester, but I highly recommend the Nitto Nomad Grapplers. On the street, they feel just like the stock tires, but off road, they perform as well as my KO2s.
@@MatthewHeiskell Thank you. From the reviews I have seen, the Nitto Nomad Grapplers are one of the best AT tires for mild off road traction. You also show they are lighter too. However, given the poor wet braking and wet handling performance and gravel performance of the Nitto Terra Grappler G2 relative to all the other AT tires tested, (see ruclips.net/video/2hwYCc6YvYM/видео.html ), I really want to see some quantitative on road wet and dry braking and handling tests comparing the Nitto Nomad Grapplers to other AT tires including the Falken Wildpeak A/T trail before I buy a new set of tires. Once again thank you
You’re welcome! Yeah, that would be a great test! Hopefully someone does that soon!
My dude, i'm coming back to this video you posted a year ago I'm about to pull the trigger on some new tires, how are the Nomad's holding up? I'm torn between the Nomad Grapplers and the Wildpeak A/T Trails, both seem to be a somewhat of a lighter CUV AT than a dedicated AT which is what I'm looking for, running on stock rims, 90% highway driving with hitting the occasional forest service trail, deep snow and slush performance and longevity are important to me. How these holding up for you and how many miles you got on them now?
Sorry for the late reply, hopefully you read this soon enough. We have 25k miles on the Nomad Grapplers. They have been excellent. We actually just got another set for our new Forester. I highly recommend them!
@@MatthewHeiskell I ended up getting these, so far so good! Only a couple hundred miles on them mostly all highway, can't wait to really put them to the test. Glad to hear they are holding up well long term!
Could you go over wheel back spacing again? I'd like mine to stick out about an inch n half over stock. Great tutorial on wheel/tire weight. Any links where to buy those wheels? Thanks man
I don’t recommend using wheels that stick out that much. It adds stress to a lot of steering and suspension components and the wheel bearings. Also, you can fit larger tires for more ground clearance and traction if you use wheels that have a normal or nearly stock offset. But I know that it looks cool. If you want them to poke an inch and a half more, you can use wheel spacers or wheels that have an offset value that is 38mm lower than stock. For me, the stock wheels have +48mm of offset. My current wheels have +45mm of offset, so they stick out 3mm more than stock. Also, my tires are 0.7” wider, so they stick out 0.35” more than stock.
@@MatthewHeiskell Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. I'm used to lifting things like full size pick-ups and old K5 Blazers from the 70's and 80's that are a bit more robust that could handle a bit of offset. I get what you're saying and I'll heed your advice. Thanks again for your time.
Awesome! Yeah, solid axles in particular can handle a lot more wheel offset. This tire size table by rallitek should help you maximize your tire size: www.rallitek.com/blog/lifted-subaru-tire-size-chart/
Great video! What lift are you running? I’m curious what the largest size tire I can go on stock rims without a lift. I want to eventually get new rims and maximize tire size. I just got a 2019 forester premium a few weeks ago and looking at the falken wildpeaks or general grabbers. Doesn’t need to be the most aggressive tire on the planet but anything is better than oem all seasons I guess lol. Stock tire size is 225/60R17. Wonder if it makes it easier to go with a wider sidewall profile as opposed to wider tire like 235’s. Or if 235 would even fit on the stock rims without rubbing. I’m thinking about going with a 225/65R17 or 235/65R17. Thoughts? Would one fit better than the other? Any upside would give me a slight clearance increase as well so that’s a bonus. I won’t be doing any extreme rock crawling.
I have the Ironman suspension. It provides a lift and extra suspension travel. You can fit my size tires 245/65R17 on the stock wheels with or without a lift. Lemme know if you have any additional questions. I’m happy to help!
@@MatthewHeiskell thanks! I appreciate the response! I know some people had issues with panels or plastic parts rubbing with larger size tires I wasn’t sure if there was a point that it would be too big. I didn’t really know that you could fit larger tires on stock rims, I guess as long as it’s same rim size for the most part? If the larger tires will fit in the oem rims I might just go with some 235/65R17’s then. The little bit wider contact patch probably makes a big difference. And not too large that it should throw off the speedometer by much. I was torn between sticking with stock size 225 width or trying to squeeze 235’s in there. Glad to hear that they should fit. Biggest concern for me was turning or reversing and not having enough clearance.
I’m running the max size which is 245/65R17 tires. They are 1.9” taller and 0.7” wider than stock. It adds about an inch of ground clearance and a ton of traction. If you don’t wanna go all the way, you can step up just one size and do 235/65R17.
@@MatthewHeiskell awesome. Thanks for the info. It’s so hard to try and research this kind of stuff when all the tire websites only tell you the oem size lol. This Nitto looks like a good tire I’ll probably have to make the decision between these and the falken wildpeaks I think. K02 is just a bit too aggressive for a vehicle that spends 90% of its time on the pavement hauling kids around 😁
@@DIYDad1 Yeah, I really like my Nitto Nomad Grapplers, but the Falken Wildpeak ATW3 would be a good choice too.
Hey Mathew, I've been referring back to this video a few times and finally ordered a set of tires. Did you mount these yourself, or take them to be mounted? Oh, and can you share where you ordered the wheels and price, please? Thank you
Hello! I mounted the TPMS sensors in the wheels myself, but you need a special machine to mount the tires on the wheels. I got my Enkei RPF1s from “Tires Wheels Direct”. They provided great service. Call them and they can order exactly what you want. That wheel has several color options too. They should be about $300 each. Let me know if you have any additional questions!
@@MatthewHeiskell Thank you, tires arrived today. They look better in person than they do online for sure. 225/65/17 to maintain fuel economy and on-road driving manners. Will be adding suspension and STI control arms after my Pro-Line by the fire road trip.
Have you gotten any rub with this set up? I want something more aggressive looking but still good for comfort in daily use.
No rubbing and you can run this wheel/tire combo with or without a lift. I'm absolutely in love with this setup, it is light and quiet and still very capable off road. That wheel also comes in black and bronze too.
do you know the 0-50 wet stopping distance on the nomad grappler? thinking these would be great in stock size
Good question, wet braking performance might be on their website, I’d check there for more information.
These are definitely on my list now! Currently looking at either these, or the wildpeak at3ws in the 236/65r17 size. I know you said these won't be as good as a full on AT tire in mud, but are they decent enough? I was running the wildpeak trails in my old forester and while they were great on dry dirt and what not, it was like ice when in even the slightest amount of mud. My new forester came with the Yokohama geolanders and it was like driving on a track in one of the same ever so slightly muddy areas.
We will see how they perform during the next off-road camping trip! I'm totally prepared to sacrifice a bit of mud performance in exchange for the weight and noise reduction. It will definitely be the focus of my next trail video.
@@MatthewHeiskell definitely looking forward to it! Want something a bit more aggressive than the geolanders, and the AT3Ws are suspiciously lightweight in the size I'd like, but would also like to be able to easily turn in even slightly muddy conditions ... unlike the wildpeak trails where I'd continue to go straight for a second or two before the tires finally bit after turning them on very slightly muddy trails lol
I hear ya! I think that the Wildpeak AT3W is a great option too. It has slightly more aggressive tread than the nomad grappler, but it is a little heavier and likely a little louder. Way better choice than the KO2. It seems impossible to get an aggressive tread pattern without extra road noise. Oh! Another great tire is the CrossClimate2. It is technically an all season tire, but the tread pattern is freakin’ awesome! My friend has them on his AWD Lexus and we meetup in an empty gravel parking lot with about 5” of snow and it was blasting around just like my Forester.
@@MatthewHeiskell so here's the weird thing, I'm going for the 235/65r17 size, and the AT3W is 31.1 pounds in that size, 4 pounds lighter than the AT trail, and here's where it gets weirder, 1.6 pounds lighter than what it is in the 225/65r17 size, so I'm highly suspicious haha. I've heard good things about the cross climates, but don't think they'd fair well at the OHV parks in NC haha especially not Uwharrie.
@@JDS-Dalton You need to use the official PDF spec sheet for each tire. Tire website are not super reliable. Yeah, durability might be an issue on the CC2s. Uwharrie, haha, I've been there in my 79' Jeep CJ7 a long time ago. I'm from Winston Salem actually, haha.
Do You carry Your new spare with You? does it fit in the stock spare tire space?
I alway carry my identical 5th. It is quite a bit taller and wider than stock, especially the stock donut spare, haha. I just keep it in the cargo area, sometimes flat, and sometimes against the side.
Hey Matthew, have you consider rear diff locker?
Good question! I’ve seen them make a big difference on older Subarus, but I think that X-mode works well enough. The car is ultimately limited by the lack of super lower gearing, but the wilderness models do address this a bit.
is your Subaru lifted? Either way, does the added height mess with Subaru eyesight?
Yes, it is lifted. No, eye sight still works perfectly. I’ve never had it recalibrated either.
Where did you buy the wheels from? Their website says 14.9lbs for 17x7 114.3 but discount tire says they’re 19lbs. Also, Toyo at3 is 34lbs at 245/65/17 on the website not the LT size but discount tire says 36lbs. Other websites have different numbers as well. It’s hard to find the correct information.
I got my wheels from “Tires Wheels Direct”. I called them on the phone. They were great. I know it is tough finding accurate specs, always try to get the manufacturer’s data sheet.
Thank you so much!
Do you recommend these tires? I've run Nitto Terra Grapplers on my truck, so I wouldn't mind trying these Nomads on my Outback. Unfortunately I'm not ready to put money into new wheels, so I'm just doing the stock tire size for my '20.
Yes, absolutely! They are perfect for small SUVs like Subarus. Keep your stock wheels and get the nomad grapplers in a larger size, like 245/70-17 assuming you have 17” stock wheels. This website will help: rallitek.com/pages/lifted-subaru-tire-size-chart-1
@Matthew Heiskell Stock size for my car is 225/60/r18 unfortunately. Really wanted to downsize my wheels, but maybe next time
What happens if I get wheels that are different from the stock offset? Is this something that is fixed with an alignment?
Good question! Offset is how much the wheel sticks out or is recessed in the wheel well. It cannot be adjusted by an alignment shop. You need the correct offset to prevent the tire from rubbing against the wheel well or fender.
I can't find these tires in 245/65r17. So i might need to look at different tire. Sucks
I just got a new set for the new Forester from Amazon. Nomad Grapplers in 245/65R17
I was wondering if these tires and rims would fit on my 2018 Subaru forester... I intend to go with an iron man lift.... But I don't know what shocks and shrubs to use.. For the 2018 model
Hello, the 2018 is a different model. I think you can use the same wheels, but I think you need to use a slightly smaller tire. Also, I don’t think that the Ironman suspension fits your 2018, but you can get a 2” spacer lift for really cheap.
@@MatthewHeiskell Thank you very much.... Grateful for your video insights
Where did you get your grill lights from?
I got them from Amazon: amzn.to/3Tcbeld
I'm thinking about getting this for my 2006 Honda ridgeline, I wonder if they would work
Yeah, just check the sizes 👍
yes they have the same stock size for you at 245/65/17 but you could also go one size up to a 245/70/17 they come in both of those sizes.
Would that set up fit a stock 2021 outback XT??
Yes, it would fit and work very well for you 👍
Will the 245/65r17 tires fit a stock Forester without rubbing? If not then what about the stock Forester Wilderness?
Those tire fit without rubbing on ANY 2019+ Forester with or without a lift IF you have wheels with an offset that is close to factory. The factory +48mm is ideal, but mine are +45mm and that works too. Those are the only two that I can confirm.
@@MatthewHeiskell Thanks very much for this.
Are these "real" AT tires? Can they be ran aired down and are they as durable and puncture resistant compared to other options? I don't care about mud but I want something durable for roads with sharp rocks/gravel.
Oh, you’re interested in a tire with a high ply count. The Nitto Nomad Graplers are XL load rated and can be aired down and they have 4 layers of material. My KO2s are LT (light truck) rated and they have 6 layers of material. Both can be aired down, but the KO2 will have more puncture resistance and weight because of the extra layers. Interestingly they are both rated for the same max weight. I think I understand your situation, a friend from Maine described some super sharp shale gravel roads that would eat normal tires for breakfast.
@@MatthewHeiskell yup our roads up here in Maine rip the crap out of your tires it's annoying
Why not steel wheels if you are off-roading?
Steel wheels are great. Strong and affordable. But I run these all terrains all the time, so I want nice looking wheels all the time. If I swapped to some super aggressive mud terrains for adventures, then I have steel wheels for them.
Would you still use these or have you changed?
I just got a new 2024 Forester wilderness and I bought the same for it too. I highly recommend them!
Does your spare tire fit in the back? If not, where do you put it?
It is 1.9" taller and 0.7" wider so it does not fit in the normal spot. I just keep it in the cargo area. No problem, I can still put stuff on top of it, or stand it up if there's a lot of camping stuff back there. The normal tire spot holds a big bag of tools and gear.
@@MatthewHeiskell Thanks Matt! Great videos btw. Given me plenty of inspo!
are the nitto made in japan!
Nitto was originally a Japanese tire company. They were purchased by Toyo Tire in 1979. It’s possible that my Nitto Nomad Grapplers were made in Japan, but they were likely made near Atlanta, Georgia.
Awesome wheels for drag racing. Not very safe for off-road use. They are very weak against contact with rocks. Be very careful. This is why off-road wheels are heavy. More material adds weight and safety.
Yeah, I’ve heard of people damaging them by hitting potholes on the street, but most race tires have a shorter sidewall, right? I think that my larger sidewalls should provide enough protection and cushion, but I’ll still be careful with them, also I have an identical 5th spare tire.
Nah… had these specific wheels on a 600hp RS. They are one of the best flowformed wheels out there. Unless your crawling through chocolate thunder or trying to hit Pritchard Canyon in your Subi🤣 these wheels are a soild fit.
@@codywest1236 Awesome! Thank you! Wow, 600hp RS
@@MatthewHeiskell Correct. The issue is contact with a rock. They will shatter very easily if you get into a situation like that. Normal street/trail use they are fine.
Are they Passenger or Light Truck construction?
Great question! They are passenger rated, so the sidewalls actually flex when off roading. My KO2s were LT rated and they did not flex or conform to the terrain as well, even when aired down. I sold my KO2s 2 weeks ago, these Nomad Grapplers are so good!
What front skid plate is that?
That is a DIY winch bumper, but I do have all three Primitive Racing skid plates.
This tires is better than toyo open country
I’ve only used the stock tires, KO2s, and Nomad Grapplers. The NGs have been the best for me, all around. I highly recommend them.
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how’s the performance on wet pavement?
So much better than my KO2s! I think the problem is that the KO2s have the LT (light truck) rating, so they are designed for a much heavier vehicle.
Any improvement in MPG?
Yeah, I’m getting about 2mpg more around town. I haven’t done any long highway drives with them yet.
Needs more sidewall ;)
Thanks Chase, but I'm maxed out. I can't fit larger tires without using a sawzall and I can't fit smaller wheels because of my brakes.
Ah yeah I figured, I had the same issue trying to fit my 225/75R15 till I broke out the angle grinder haha
You're a mad man! haha
You got to do, what you got to do to to keep up with the Jeeps ahaha
Will these tires fit on wrx?
Yeah, but I think that you will need a different size wheel and tire, but it would be a great setup if you want to do some rally stuff. What year is your WRX?
Can I use 15x7 wheels on my 19 forester?
No, the brakes are too big for wheels that small. 17” wheels are the smallest wheels that clear the brakes
@@MatthewHeiskell Thanks for the info! Lastly, for 17 wheels what’s the biggest size A/T will fit without trimming/rubbing?
My tires are as large as possible without rubbing. Using wheels with the right offset is key to prevent rubbing. My wheels are 17x7 +45mm and my tires are 245/65R17.
Videos too good....
Many thanks!
en-key not r-kay
Either way they are awesome wheels!