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Each point on the chaos wheel represents one of the gods, so there's in total 8 gods. If Vastor the Archane is one god and the cow have their own god, that 6. The question then becomes who are the 7th and the 8th gods because they each have an. And here's an interesting question if corn's number is 8. And Nurgul's number is 7. Tzeentch (often spelled “Tzinch”) is 9, while Slaanesh corresponds to the number 6, Does that mean they were born out of order? Or came into creation out of order. As we understand it. Also, since Zinch's number is 9 and the chaos wheel is 8, does that mean Zinch wasn't supposed to exist and he exists outside of the the gods of chaos as we would understand it? Like he's an accident?
1. They are def gonna use gravity to either pull the planet away or create an anti-gravity bubble for themselves. 2. I bet they find an original version of the golden throne there and realize its necron/old god tech, that it can be used as a interface for the blackstone, how to use it, and how to repair it
@@garrickbrasil They mentioned that most of the Golden Throne. Is alien technology so I always assumed it was the old ones, but it's a good point that the golden throne would be how they activate. And use Blackstone.
I think it'd be hilarious to release an old one, then just dedicate a book to the old one traveling the galaxy and looking on in horror at what it's become. Seeing the Orks and the Eldar would be a funny interaction.
Guiliman Inferior spending the first 10 minutes of every conversation raging about what he's going to do to Cawl when he finds out about himself is pretty funny.
It's extremely funny that the Lion's new psychic power lets him be an EVEN MORE INTENSELY absent father than he was before: always stepping out to play MGS Peacewalker with Fallen and punching out chaos champions at random on one side of the Great Rift.
Like father, like son I guess? Plus, with all the random crap the Dark Angels have done in ten thousand years, I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson wanted to bail. xD
When big E speaks to Crawl he said you will think you have betrayed me but in the end you will not have. Maybe it's about this. Crawl release a C'tan that kills that thing on the Golden Throne, but that allows the Star Child to inherit all the Emperors power.
@@Enja_Near They're going to 'end times' 40k sooner or later. One could debate that it's already happened, or is happening as we speak. I have long suspected that one day when whatever happens to The Emperor to make him wake up, will cause the galaxy to fuse with the warp. Meaning that anyone can go anywhere, at any time. More or less to 'serve' the table top game and ultimately, the company.
@@Enja_Near Hahaha yeah good point. The star child might just be able to power the astronomican is what I meant by he gets all the emperors powers. I can certainly agree that maybe letting the corpse rot might be the safer ploy. Also love the way you phased that! I agree with your later comment to. I think they are setting the end times up right now. Probably won't happen until there model sales slump though.
People think Belisarius surname is Caul, This is in fact not true. People has just forgotten how to spell his name though the aeons. His real name is Belisarius Cool, because he's cool indeed.
I've been fond of the idea that the demons in the current setting are Old One and Eldar warp weapons that have gotten out of control. Like war dogs who's owners have died, resulting in them going feral.
I think it makes sense that the Tyranids are a creation of the Olde Ones. It seems like the Orks are a contained version of Tyranids; They are weapons that move from system to system consuming everything for war. But Orks are deliberately limited. They don't even become Krorks unless they have to. But 'Nids are designed to consume at all costs. They are the Pyrrhic victory for the Olde Ones; Total destruction and consumption of the galaxy.
I think that pins too much narrative weight on the Old Ones. Much in the same way that Ancient Aliens is dumb for making every jot and titter of human history the cosmic shadowplay of aliens, pinning the daemons' existence on the frog-kings absence leaves too little agency for anyone else
The basic premise of time being affected by gravity as described in the book is accurate in our current understanding. It doesn't explain how Cawl will be able to transfer that knowledge out unless there is warp fuckery going around or they have access to Necrontyr technology that is FTL.
Your basic understanding of the 'time travel' is absolutely correct. The problems are getting there, spending time there (which would equate to thousands or millions of years passing in the outside galaxy) and getting back. If you've seen Interstellar, it's like that Tsunami World but millions of times worse where seconds on that planet would equate to centuries (or more) outside.
You also run into the problem of actually reaching the planet. The trip to the planet would take millions of years, as time flows slower and slower the closer you get.
I always assumed that Slaanesh was a greater demon not unlike Vashtor or Be'lakor who succeeded in it's apotheosis by seducing the Aeldari. Which means she would exist and she would have alters and rituals etc happening in her name before she became a god.
Warp spaghetti and timelessness do make things complicated, but Slaanesh is/was no more a greater demon than any other chaos god. They are actually a C'tan, inverted from being a realspace entity into a warp entity as a long term getback on the Aeldari.
I’m not a physicist and nobody really knows for sure. But some theories state crossing the event horizon inverts time and space. So you can move forward and backwards in time like you walk through a room. But your movement in space is locked. You can only move forward at a fixed rate, toward the singularity of the black hole. And by move forward and back in time, all of the particles and matter that have passed the event horizon are there, being drawn toward the singularity. However, the singularity would probably render it all disorted and compressed beyond recognition the closer you get to the singularity.😊
I love this theory, from what I know it stems from the idea of "if you are restricted in movement in the 3 space dimensions X, Y and Z by being pulled into a singularity, you might be able to move freely in the temporal time dimension instead". Which ultimately doesn't matter much, since the Penrose diagram for example can tell us that the singularity is not a place in space, but a point in time, the last point in time for anything inside the event horizon . Cheers.
Personally I'd like the Emperor's return to not so much end the setting as transform it into something without as many cliffhangers and more stability, Order & Chaos, the Emperor (complete with the Star Child) and Dark King in balance maintained by perpetual conflict into the foreseeable future. Of course with some characters and factions trying to end the cycle and thus keep things dynamic and interesting. This would of course be a huge change and not everyone would like it (after all every intro to 40k has big E on the Throne) but at least it would live on.
I wouldn’t mind the time travel if Cawl visited the planet, then had some instantaneous travel to another planet, leaving him stranded millions of years in the past and having to take the long way back. Maybe he intentionally gets captured in a trazyn pokeball to shortcut, or maybe being awake for aeons ruins his mind like so many necrons
I picture Cawl playing pong or like Galaga in his head while the Primarch is lecturing him! Like an uninterested child with adhd getting bitched at by its parents😂😂
Kind of makes sense that Aaron Demski-Bowden wrote the Cawl stuff. He seems to understand the idea of the traitors, and Cawl kind of tows the line in so far as the current Mechanicus is concerned
With you calling the inferior the false primarch made me come up with a theory about the war of the false primarch being the cawl inferior leading the loyalists as a result of Cawls time travel we have no lre for it except the pentalpha of blood was sent to stop it
he could build a metal body for the inferior before sending it back in time terminator style lol it could even be with guilimans permission if there was a great enough need for something.
@@Sharksvsnids For now, Time travel is one way in WH40K. The time travel Cawl want to do is to a planet where the time slowed down to a crawl. He is not going back in his own timeline. No one I know, have the means to time travel in the Materium. The warp travel back in time is more a rumor than a proven fact.
As badass as the charcharodons and flesh tearers are, if the Cawl or the Guilliman inferior led 11 chapters, I don't think the Pentarchy of blood would have been able to defeat them
The thing about relativity, gravity, and time distortion is that it's all about perspective. From the outside, something caught in a black hole would seem to slow down the further it was pulled into the gravitational well. However, to someone standing on the planet time would continue to flow as we normally experience it. Your watch would not slow down nor would you. And as you looked out to the stars, you would see time accelerating. Also, the gravitational force of a black hole is so powerful, but in such a concentrated place that the planet would likely be experiencing different flows of time in different places depending on how close it was to the black hole. Though, if it was a particularly massive black hole, the gravitational eddies might be big enough to encompass an entire planet. Also depends on how far away they are. Now, if you were to want to go from a perspective of being on the outside of the event horizon to being on the planet, you would basically have to experience the time difference between the two points of view. That is to say, if you are still seeing the planet as it was 100 years ago, it would take about 100 years for you to travel from where you are to the planet in question. And, as you did so, you would come to see the planet as it currently was from the perspective of those who were on the planet the whole time. Good news is, that it would take a very, very long time for an object to fall into a black hole (even from the perspective of being that object.) Bad news is that if the gravitational eddies are too close together, they could tear the planet apart from the difference in gravitational forces. But 40k has warp fuckery. Time travel is nothing new to the setting via warp travel. They honestly could have ignored the time dilation of a black hole and had them try to find a way to actually control time warp travel and I think it would have made more sense in-universe and out, but regardless I hardly look to 40k for hard science or realism.
Bellasaurius Cawl is awesome. He is basically a 10 thousand year old space squirrel who has been stashing acorns (Primaris Marines) all over the galaxy and breaking every rule of the Imperium. Big E has got to love the guy.
Cawl doesn't travel to the past in this case. Rather, the orbital station has travelled into the future. Higher gravity indeed slows down the flow of time, which means that the wider time of the galaxy has flown by faster
If the planet is basically at the event horizon of a black hole time on the planet moves extremely slowly as compared to the rest of the galaxy. Depending on the dilation as compared to the rest of the galaxy. Similar to what happened in interstellar with Miler’s planet near gargantua. With that being said if the go down to that planet they will be under the same time dilation as the inhabitants of said planet. They experience time the same as everyone else it’s just much slower relative to someone outside the dilation. As long as the planet hasn’t crossed the event horizon escape should be possible.
Crazy idea, that this world they want to recover is actually is/contains the location of the weapon that Vashtorr is looking for, Or the weapon is what black holed the planet and can be used to undo it. Everything in 40k has unforeseen and expected consequences.
Resonate the Black Hole planet in some manner that you can detect in the warp, and look for that resonation...if the warp is timeless, then there's a path to that old moment, however hidden. Then it's just a matter of following that path backwards when the job's done.
Physics guy here: that is actually pretty close. Deeper down the gravitational well and the closer to C you travel the slower you perceive reality/time while reality/time outside seems to speed up. If you like anime the Gunbuster goes over this well. There was also that interstellar movie a few years back that was good at showing this.
Fun fact: FTL is time travel in general relativity. Any kind, through another dimension (warp, hyperspace, subspace, whatever), teleport, warping spacetime, whatever. So any sizeable civilization is already traveling backwards in time constantly, or much more likely, 40k does not operate on Einsteinian relativity. If they don't, then black holes and all that jazz work entirely differently, so we can't really tell anything.
In regards to the concerns of time travel - it would only be "time travel" in the regard that the *planets time* has to all outside observers 'stopped' as it passed beyond the event horizon due to the mechanics of black holes. It's essentially a memento of the past frozen in place, so the characters themselves wouldn't be hopping inside a time machine and zipping back into the past in actuality. They'd just have to deal with the time dilation effects of getting back out of the black hole and returning to the 41st millennium.
Cawl has a necron chronomancer as a prisoner, he's likely to use her to create a stable tunnel from 41k to the necrontyr world which I assume is something that can be done from the outside in but the necrontyr/old ones on the planet can't do from the inside out as from their perspective that would be going into the future.
Black hole time dilation comes up in so much sci fi. It's a real sign of how much 40k is usually just pew pew in space that this showing up is a big deal.
Something Stuck on event horizon of black hole where time stops or slows down. Outside forces pull it out of black hole, person trapped in time gets essentially transported from the past to the present. A present where there is war and conflict and is much worse than the past This is the plot of the kevin sorbo tv series Andromeda
Cawl makes his own comedic version of a Black Mirror episode. I giggled almost at every single AI Guilliman’s response. Not to mention Cawl being a smartass throughout the whole exchange knowing the the AI cant do shit 😂
So if Cawl travels from "now" to the planet where "now" is actually "then", he is linked to "than" ... which is a time zone we know several characters hail from. There could very well be a display on Solemnace with Cawl looking smug waiting for Trayzen to reawaken him "now".
Close to gravity - when watched from far away you look slow, for you time is normal but outside world look faster. Moves super fast- when watched from far away you look super fast, for you outside is super slow. That means, when for you seconds pass, for outside years pass. For a photon with speed of light, fraction of a second pass, when outside experiences billions of years. Those 2 rules are important to coordinate GPS, fast moving satelite clock and surface high grać phone clocks.
I suspect that in theory the imperium has gravity warping technology. After all they have artificial gravity on their ships and grav weapons and whatnot. The planet is effectively locked in stasis due to the gravitational warping of the black hole. The harsher the gravity, the slower time moves. So the closer you are to a black hole, the slower time moves for you compared to everyone else. Thus as the planet nears the event horizon, it's basically paused in time. In theory, if Cawl could reverse engineer some existing gravity manipulation tech to create a bubble of normal gravity around himself, he would be immune to the time dilation of the black hole and would be able to wander around on this planet frozen in time.
The way it's explained in genefather is that due to the extreme gravity caused by a black hole time goes extremely slowly so even 60-odd million years later the planets inhabitants are still looking up at the sky awaiting their doom. So even if Belisarius spent 60odd million years on the planet collecting the data he needs, literally seconds will have passed anywhere else in the galaxy. Meaning he has PLENTY of time to do what he needs to and time will have passed but so little that he'd basically be going back to the same time. (Same result as on Molech but by TOTALLY different means). Btw, time is thought to behave like this under EXTREME gravity. I.e. near a black hole. The closer you get to a black hole, the more time slows. Hope this clears things up 😊
There really isn't much explaining to do. It's just impossible, I get people don't understand but I wish for things like this they would just say "warp tricks" if you use science you should at least use it correctly. If time dilation were to occur on this level the entire planet would already be broken into microscopic pieces. People have a hard time understanding how much gravity would be affecting the planet, or just choose to ignore it. Remember EXTREME gravity = time dilation.
Interesting, that time travel can open up more plots, what happen if Silent King learned how to reverse from mechanic body to flesh from Belisarius Cawl’s body modification? Or Cawl may go back a bit too far off and end up meeting with Necrontyr before they threw away their flesh?
Cawl has the emperors mark on him, its why he has a get out jail free card. Dude is untouchable. The emperor that sits on the throne is absorbing the energy of the warp, just like he did to become the dark king. The rift closing wouldnt change anything, the longer it stays around the more power he absorbs.
Theory: Original Alpha through the cabal’s revelation saw an alternative third way to save the imperium. Omega died at the hands of Royal Dorn, Alpha faked his death after the worse outcome of the Horus Heresy came to be. Then the “true” long war began, utilizing the distraction of chaos corruption over 10,000 years outside of the warp until the still highly secretive psychological indoctrination protocols are initiated and Alpha pulls a Word Bearers and sends his own infant form through time back to Terra. Double time loop twist, maybe? Omega set the precedent that an entire secret mini empire exists that supports the Alpha Legion when Alpha originally found his twin.
With you mentioning age of sigmar, id be really interested to hear you talk about some of the lore from that game! It seems a lot better than it did when it was first introduced
As a filthy casual fan, I don't understand a few things. It seems to me like Mars has all of the important stuff in the Mars/Terra alliance. They have all the war machines. They are the ones that manufacture most of the weapons and armor. They have most of the space ships. Like if Mars decided to go rogue, I don't think that Terra could stop them. Terra has the ability to inefficiently make Space Marines that have like a 90% washout rate, and from what I've observed, that's about it. Why does Belisarius Cawl even care what Roboute Guilliman thinks? Because it seems like Mars has pretty much all of the power in this relationship. At least that's how it looks from my layman perspective.
Well Mars does still need the emperor because of the astronomicon. They also believe (mostly) that the emperor is the omnissiah, the earthly manifestation of the machine god
@@SandmanofTerra So I guess that leads into my next question. Why doesn't Mars just come out and say something like that we no longer believe that you are serving in the best interest of the Omnissiah. Most of you, especially if you are an old school Space Marine, don't even believe in the divinity of The Emperor. We are going to wipe out the Adeptus Custodes because despite being in the presence of The Omnissiah all the time, you refuse to believe in his divinity. We are then going to replace the Custodes with Sororitas who DO acknowledge the supreme divinity of the God Emperor, and since we pretty much make all of your stuff, either do what we say or be branded a heretic. Can you recommend me a book or a source that kinda goes into how the political power is looked at between Mars and Terra? If there isn't one, there should be and you should write/voice act it lol. That is if Games WorkShop hasn't imploded via culture war at that point.
on the topic of the blackhole planet thingamajig, i can't help but wonder if the lion would be able to use his forrest walking (or whatever the formal name is ) ability to enter and exit said planet
What if loyalist alpha marines trick magnus into pulling the planet out, Malcaldor yeeted a planet through the warp, I think tigerius, Mephiston, caldor draigo or if not them magnus could do it.
yup. he is just visiting a place in slow mo. now this means temporal dialation applies to him too though. so if 1 second is one year there and he spends an hour there.... then 3600 years pass outside. hope it is just a 5 minute trip (3 centuries) if it the case. i do not know the timescale being discussed, but if the war in heavan is millions year past 1 sec to 1 year might not be out of the question (86400*365 years pass in a day, about 31 million years)
Personally I think this will be what comes out…. The warp used to be part of our space, but in order to defeat the old ones, the necrons discovered and used the blackstone pylons and beacon worlds to fold and separate the warp from realspace and imprison the old ones in the warp. Abbadon’s crusades were intended not just to hurt the imperium and the races of the galaxy but to weaken the prison holding the Old Four as well as the rest of the Old Ones and allow them to return as part of real space to dominate the galaxy once more.
I want more Cawl and Trazyn cooperation. Maybe Cawl will call him and say "Hey cleptozyn, we got a potentially alive old one, but there is a slight problem - he's on a planet inside black hole, anything you can do?" I imagine that'd be really funny
I recently heard that there is an excerpt from the new chaos marine codex that describes Perturabo and Vashtor have actually collaborated with each other in the past on some horrifying experiments involving demon engines and technology that is purely invented for the sole purpose of making your enemy suffer. So apparently these two have met in the past and appeared to have a somewhat warm relationship, which makes me wonder why does Vashtor need Abaddon when he could easily ally with a demon Primark who is basically a demon prince of undivided. Also, somebody mentioned the science behind the movie interstellar, which is actually based on real scientific data and because of the way time actually works versus how we perceive, it are two entirely different things . In the movie, his daughter is able to write messages on the floor by moving dust aside, so there appears to be words in order to help the main character understand what he needs to know in order to save the but it’s so early in the movie that there isn’t much he understands at this point. If I understand correctly time, whether it’s past present and future are all simultaneously happening at the same time . We’re only able to be traveled backwards and One Direction then you would also have to deal with the problem of a paradox , what happens if you were to shoot yourself in the past you’re still alive but technically you shouldn’t be and if you weren’t then you wouldn’t have been able to visit yourself in the past and shoot yourself in a loop. Such a scenario cannot exist, which is why scientists have theorized that is simultaneously occurring but humans perceive it as moving forward and One Direction. This is also a theory that is used in another movie that involves two giant aliens stuck in a spaceship with one of them dying . They are not able to communicate using human language and it is later revealed after they hire the main character who is a translator of languages that it’s because the aliens use a form of language that exists through a simultaneous timeline. Once she’s able to understand and learn the language, she is able to perceive time as the aliens do and is able to advert a world war based on the fact that once she sees what happens if she doesn’t help the alien and the aliens dying partner because there are other nations who are afraid of the spacecraft and at some point it’s Implied, it starts another world war that ends with the extinction of the human race as soon as she understands this, she is able to pick up the phone and call the Chinese ambassador and explain what’s going to happen. I remember the Chinese ambassador almost blows her off and says this is impossible, and she says something to him that only he would know which places him in a state of shock and he immediately stalls any future plans of using nukes as do other countries and the human race up learning the language at the end of the movie, which in a way has our species evolve to a higher level of understanding once they are able to use this time based language which changes our perception so it accurately is able to see time for what it actually is. Also is another concept called string theory, which is a very complicated discussion regarding multiple universes where we each have created based on our own decisions and their outcome but the question is how do we access these alternate dimensions created by string theory?
Cawl won't be travelling in time to the planet, the planet has just been slowed down to a crawl. The question is how will Cawl go into the slowed time zone and back without the rest of the universe getting fast forwarded to 50k while he's there
Maybe its like futurama. He goes back in time but can't get back so he has to put himself to sleep until he's back in the current time. He meets the emperor and he puts him inside what was to be mars aka the void dragon. Na no way.
Cawl is being clever. As you get closer to a large body time changes, it slows down. If Cawl went without anyone who could modify the flow of time for himself. He would just end up outliving humanity. So he needs psykers who can modify the flow if time for himself so that he can get the infomation he needs. though he would have problems. If he tried keeping to the normal flow of time that the rest of the galaxy is flowing at he would in theory being doing the equivelant of traveling at FTL speeds to the people on the planet. He would have to allow some time dialation on himself or he would never be able to interact with any of the tech he needs. time dialation is the affect of time being changed by large bodies, i.e Black Holes. So Cawl 's gonna be gone a while unless he intentionally uses warp shinaigans to get around turning up up tens of millenia after he left. He probably would do that before he left find a way to trigger a massive time jump to get back not long after he went in
to observe it could it be just like looking at a light stream at a surton point ? so u can't change it just veiw its and move back the light would change the time back ? as the light its traveling to the center of the black hole
The skaven are technologically inclined and their god is the great horned rat. Vashtorr is related to technology, so he can be the great horned rat evolved. :D
Blasphemous man-thing! Horned Rat greater than false god-thing! Jokes aside, sad as it is to say the Imperium of Man is the Skaven analog in 40K. If memory serves the High Lords are 12 in number with a 13th reserved for the Emperor or his stand-in (custodes). Humans reproduce at an obscene rate. The Emperors ultimate manifestation would have been the Dark King Chaos God of Ruin, which is what the Horned Rat was the epitome of. Their single greatest bane is the constant betrayal and power plays that sabotage their own success. Their claim that they will rise up and control all of the galaxy. The Eldars' general contempt for humanity bordering on the desire to genocide them. Much like the justifiable contempt for the Skaven. The weird and often times unnecessarily cruel design of the Imperial technology - The Emperors Ordo Sinister Psi-titans. Old lore but I seem to recall the Warp drives had psychers stuffed into them to act as the warp charge. The frequent use of abhuman slaves and depending on the region I am sure there are aliens used as slaves too. The Inquisition that runs around claiming Divine Mandate, not unlike the Grey Seers of the Horned Rat. I'm sure I'm missing a few examples, those were just what came to mind immediately. My beloved rat-things are already represented by the absolute failure that is humanity.
I'm assuming cawl has some sort of temporal energy shield or field that can protect him and his company from the full effects. Otherwise it will be pointless.
I now want not one, but two krork to be released from the planet, and have them be received at Gork and Mork, thus fracturing the orks into a civil war to balance out the krork coming into the setting
It is my layman understanding of a black hole that it has the effect of essentially warping spacetime in a confined space so that it stretches spacetime to effectively become all the same moment, meaning time effectively stops moving. I'm not sure if it can completely stop time by stretching it to infinity, but I'm not looking that up and my gut tell me no as the black hole does not have infinite mass. But the difficult part is how the heck do you leave when the gravity is so strong even the speed of light is not enough to escape its gravity? I'm thinking warp shenanigans, so Belisarius and the Mechanicus better be cooking some spicy warp spaghetti if they are to pull that off! TL;DR: Big mass, time very slow near it... relatively speaking. 🤓
Since Abaddon is a direct descendant of Albert Einstein & Sun Ce...now... Doesn't it make a lot of sense. That he only had enough black stone. To make a tendril partly from the eye of terror to Terra. So he then broke open the great rift. So that now his path is a lot shorter.
It is true that time on a planet that has passed the event horizon of a black hole would have time slowed down to a stop. Although-- going there means passing the event horizon yourself. I guess since FTL technology exists in Warhammer it would be possible to escape it-- but then why haven't the residents of that planet already done that when they had FTL technology too? Moreover, if one goes to a planet where time is slowed down so that seconds take centuries, then however much time he spends studying things there he won't emerge for several millenia. I bet you anything that the writers are just going to conveniently forget that fact or pretend he has some sort of "time window".
Wasn't there an aborted plan to teleport _Mars_ at some point? Could they get the planet out of the black hole that way? Gulliman: So we are fine, as long as nobody teleports any Necron worlds! Cawl: Question.
Is it crazy to think the price of trazyn helping belesarius is once the imperium gets the tech to replace the pylon it couldn't defend, trazyn takes him for his zoo?
I can totally see Trazyn doing that. But being able to atleast push the warp back would be worth it. Considering half of the fanbase and imperium want to scorch him.
Hmmmm... even if the Emperor did have the 2 halves of his soul healed and rejoined into one I don't see him being able to get up off of that chair since he still has that Webway hole into the Warp right there in his Throne Room thanks to the Big Red Idiot.
You can get to the planet alright, the problem is how you escape from it. Time slows with increased gravity, so a planet so close to a black hole would practically frozen in time. But technically, time still flows for the planet itself, quite slowly. Just like interstellar ocean planet, when you leave you will find that eons have passed. And all these only possible if you can find a solution to incredible stress the gravitational forces will inflict on any craft moving trough it. And that applies to planet too. I doubt it will be stable if they can land on it, the planet would be falling apart, literally. A time dilation that big requires the object to be too close to event horizon, the point of no return.
Oh the problem won't be escaping, they'll just conjure up some Necron artifact or something. The real problem will be getting back without some insanely powerful and dangerous stowaways.
@@HydraulicDesign not a Necron one, but maybe an Eldar one since they are better with warp stuff. Warp can make you go back in time in some cases, but they will have to travel back millions of years, which I never heard before in setting. They will be millions of years in future when they set foot on planet, each second of stay probably costing thousands of years. Orikan would be very useful in this story.
When he went back in time to the planet he would be stuck there never able to go forward because his past would now become his present but he could link his Quantum consciousness with another body in the present time and just leave everything else behind and if it's just information he is after the information could be transferred through his Quantum connection as long as there's nothing physical that has to be transported to his other body in the current timeline
I still wish the fall of Cadia was Failadon throwing the blackstone fidget spinner to break Cadia THEN his army goes shoots up everyone and gets close to Sol before getting hit with something. Just so dum he wastes all his men.. theb throws the Dinner Plate.
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Each point on the chaos wheel represents one of the gods, so there's in total 8 gods. If Vastor the Archane is one god and the cow have their own god, that 6. The question then becomes who are the 7th and the 8th gods because they each have an. And here's an interesting question if corn's number is 8. And Nurgul's number is 7. Tzeentch (often spelled “Tzinch”) is 9, while Slaanesh corresponds to the number 6, Does that mean they were born out of order? Or came into creation out of order. As we understand it. Also, since Zinch's number is 9 and the chaos wheel is 8, does that mean Zinch wasn't supposed to exist and he exists outside of the the gods of chaos as we would understand it? Like he's an accident?
Great video! Please do one of the ‘Immaterial College’ next
1. They are def gonna use gravity to either pull the planet away or create an anti-gravity bubble for themselves.
2. I bet they find an original version of the golden throne there and realize its necron/old god tech, that it can be used as a interface for the blackstone, how to use it, and how to repair it
@@garrickbrasil They mentioned that most of the Golden Throne. Is alien technology so I always assumed it was the old ones, but it's a good point that the golden throne would be how they activate. And use Blackstone.
I think it'd be hilarious to release an old one, then just dedicate a book to the old one traveling the galaxy and looking on in horror at what it's become. Seeing the Orks and the Eldar would be a funny interaction.
Guiliman Inferior spending the first 10 minutes of every conversation raging about what he's going to do to Cawl when he finds out about himself is pretty funny.
Can you imagine a Gulliman Inferior unit on the tabletop? Admech warlord to soup with a smattering of ultramarines.
I like the part where cawl like "Do you really need to argue everytime i turn you on?"
I just picture a servoskull is just writing all this info down.
Rule of Thumb; If it's the second or third worse possible option, that's what Cawl did
*HEY* …do you want to become a servitor? Because talking like that is how you become a servitor.
It's extremely funny that the Lion's new psychic power lets him be an EVEN MORE INTENSELY absent father than he was before: always stepping out to play MGS Peacewalker with Fallen and punching out chaos champions at random on one side of the Great Rift.
Like father, like son I guess? Plus, with all the random crap the Dark Angels have done in ten thousand years, I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson wanted to bail. xD
“Sons, I’m just going for a walk in the forest. Back soon”
“Yea…ok dad”
When big E speaks to Crawl he said you will think you have betrayed me but in the end you will not have. Maybe it's about this. Crawl release a C'tan that kills that thing on the Golden Throne, but that allows the Star Child to inherit all the Emperors power.
It would also turn off the light of the Astronomicon and Terra would be devoured by warp storms sooooo.......
Probably let the corpse emperor rot.
@@Enja_Near Sometimes disrupting the status is the better outcome.
@@Enja_Near They're going to 'end times' 40k sooner or later.
One could debate that it's already happened, or is happening as we speak.
I have long suspected that one day when whatever happens to The Emperor to make him wake up, will cause the galaxy to fuse with the warp. Meaning that anyone can go anywhere, at any time. More or less to 'serve' the table top game and ultimately, the company.
@@Enja_Near Hahaha yeah good point. The star child might just be able to power the astronomican is what I meant by he gets all the emperors powers. I can certainly agree that maybe letting the corpse rot might be the safer ploy. Also love the way you phased that!
I agree with your later comment to. I think they are setting the end times up right now. Probably won't happen until there model sales slump though.
Just don't let the star child near Drake hehehe.
Old One shows up in Modern 40k... sees the state of the galaxy... immediately turns around and jumps back in black hole
People think Belisarius surname is Caul, This is in fact not true. People has just forgotten how to spell his name though the aeons. His real name is Belisarius Cool, because he's cool indeed.
Yes, yes. This. This is certainly the truth.
I've been fond of the idea that the demons in the current setting are Old One and Eldar warp weapons that have gotten out of control.
Like war dogs who's owners have died, resulting in them going feral.
That is what I considered the Eldar "gods" to be
I think it makes sense that the Tyranids are a creation of the Olde Ones. It seems like the Orks are a contained version of Tyranids; They are weapons that move from system to system consuming everything for war. But Orks are deliberately limited. They don't even become Krorks unless they have to.
But 'Nids are designed to consume at all costs. They are the Pyrrhic victory for the Olde Ones; Total destruction and consumption of the galaxy.
I think that pins too much narrative weight on the Old Ones. Much in the same way that Ancient Aliens is dumb for making every jot and titter of human history the cosmic shadowplay of aliens, pinning the daemons' existence on the frog-kings absence leaves too little agency for anyone else
Besides thats the orcs already.
The basic premise of time being affected by gravity as described in the book is accurate in our current understanding. It doesn't explain how Cawl will be able to transfer that knowledge out unless there is warp fuckery going around or they have access to Necrontyr technology that is FTL.
Your basic understanding of the 'time travel' is absolutely correct. The problems are getting there, spending time there (which would equate to thousands or millions of years passing in the outside galaxy) and getting back. If you've seen Interstellar, it's like that Tsunami World but millions of times worse where seconds on that planet would equate to centuries (or more) outside.
You also run into the problem of actually reaching the planet. The trip to the planet would take millions of years, as time flows slower and slower the closer you get.
@@alltat Yeah, I covered that very briefly in 'getting there' and I assume there's a handwavium solution to getting there and getting off.
I always assumed that Slaanesh was a greater demon not unlike Vashtor or Be'lakor who succeeded in it's apotheosis by seducing the Aeldari. Which means she would exist and she would have alters and rituals etc happening in her name before she became a god.
👍 This is a much better explanation, then this whole “the gods existed before they even existed” and blah blah
Warp spaghetti and timelessness do make things complicated, but Slaanesh is/was no more a greater demon than any other chaos god.
They are actually a C'tan, inverted from being a realspace entity into a warp entity as a long term getback on the Aeldari.
If they brought an old one back, wouldn’t Trazyn just steal him immediately?
That would certainly be a danger 😂
Trazyn might offer his help to get the planet out from beyond the event horizon, just to somehow steal it later.
Its not stealing, it is simply having to Strategically Transfer Equipment to Alternate Locations
Dum dum dduuuuuuum.
Trazyn the Infinite Deus Ex Machina
What if Tyranids are the current state of the Old Ones.
I’m not a physicist and nobody really knows for sure. But some theories state crossing the event horizon inverts time and space. So you can move forward and backwards in time like you walk through a room. But your movement in space is locked. You can only move forward at a fixed rate, toward the singularity of the black hole. And by move forward and back in time, all of the particles and matter that have passed the event horizon are there, being drawn toward the singularity. However, the singularity would probably render it all disorted and compressed beyond recognition the closer you get to the singularity.😊
I love this theory, from what I know it stems from the idea of "if you are restricted in movement in the 3 space dimensions X, Y and Z by being pulled into a singularity, you might be able to move freely in the temporal time dimension instead".
Which ultimately doesn't matter much, since the Penrose diagram for example can tell us that the singularity is not a place in space, but a point in time, the last point in time for anything inside the event horizon .
Cheers.
Personally I'd like the Emperor's return to not so much end the setting as transform it into something without as many cliffhangers and more stability, Order & Chaos, the Emperor (complete with the Star Child) and Dark King in balance maintained by perpetual conflict into the foreseeable future. Of course with some characters and factions trying to end the cycle and thus keep things dynamic and interesting. This would of course be a huge change and not everyone would like it (after all every intro to 40k has big E on the Throne) but at least it would live on.
A Cawl clone travels to the past and uploads the data to timeless warp so big E on his throne gets the message
I wouldn’t mind the time travel if Cawl visited the planet, then had some instantaneous travel to another planet, leaving him stranded millions of years in the past and having to take the long way back. Maybe he intentionally gets captured in a trazyn pokeball to shortcut, or maybe being awake for aeons ruins his mind like so many necrons
I picture Cawl playing pong or like Galaga in his head while the Primarch is lecturing him! Like an uninterested child with adhd getting bitched at by its parents😂😂
It's that guy who used to make
40k lore sandman I think he was called Sandman 👀👌🏻
Harsh, but fair 😂 I'm back now so regular scheduled programming
I did miss the content I'm just upset instantly forgiven on blowing your load on a rather long video
Vashtor is using the Cawl and Roboute simulacrums as spies and at some point the two are going to simultaneously attack the originals
I don't think so because The will od cawl and g man us stronger than him so they can't
Just finished Genefathers...good timing
Kind of makes sense that Aaron Demski-Bowden wrote the Cawl stuff. He seems to understand the idea of the traitors, and Cawl kind of tows the line in so far as the current Mechanicus is concerned
Awhh yes sandman has finally posted, now WARRIOR TIER !
With you calling the inferior the false primarch made me come up with a theory about the war of the false primarch being the cawl inferior leading the loyalists as a result of Cawls time travel we have no lre for it except the pentalpha of blood was sent to stop it
Pentarchy of blood
he could build a metal body for the inferior before sending it back in time terminator style lol it could even be with guilimans permission if there was a great enough need for something.
@@Sharksvsnids
For now, Time travel is one way in WH40K.
The time travel Cawl want to do is to a planet where the time slowed down to a crawl. He is not going back in his own timeline.
No one I know, have the means to time travel in the Materium.
The warp travel back in time is more a rumor than a proven fact.
What about the time travelling door in ravenor? @@painlord2k
As badass as the charcharodons and flesh tearers are, if the Cawl or the Guilliman inferior led 11 chapters, I don't think the Pentarchy of blood would have been able to defeat them
The thing about relativity, gravity, and time distortion is that it's all about perspective. From the outside, something caught in a black hole would seem to slow down the further it was pulled into the gravitational well. However, to someone standing on the planet time would continue to flow as we normally experience it. Your watch would not slow down nor would you. And as you looked out to the stars, you would see time accelerating. Also, the gravitational force of a black hole is so powerful, but in such a concentrated place that the planet would likely be experiencing different flows of time in different places depending on how close it was to the black hole. Though, if it was a particularly massive black hole, the gravitational eddies might be big enough to encompass an entire planet. Also depends on how far away they are.
Now, if you were to want to go from a perspective of being on the outside of the event horizon to being on the planet, you would basically have to experience the time difference between the two points of view. That is to say, if you are still seeing the planet as it was 100 years ago, it would take about 100 years for you to travel from where you are to the planet in question. And, as you did so, you would come to see the planet as it currently was from the perspective of those who were on the planet the whole time. Good news is, that it would take a very, very long time for an object to fall into a black hole (even from the perspective of being that object.) Bad news is that if the gravitational eddies are too close together, they could tear the planet apart from the difference in gravitational forces.
But 40k has warp fuckery. Time travel is nothing new to the setting via warp travel. They honestly could have ignored the time dilation of a black hole and had them try to find a way to actually control time warp travel and I think it would have made more sense in-universe and out, but regardless I hardly look to 40k for hard science or realism.
I think Cawl is my favorite Non-Astarties character..
His madness is brilliance & I love seeing His work.
Bellasaurius Cawl is awesome. He is basically a 10 thousand year old space squirrel who has been stashing acorns (Primaris Marines) all over the galaxy and breaking every rule of the Imperium. Big E has got to love the guy.
Cawl doesn't travel to the past in this case. Rather, the orbital station has travelled into the future. Higher gravity indeed slows down the flow of time, which means that the wider time of the galaxy has flown by faster
I think they'll leave via the warp and find a time "vein" that takes them back to the current present.
Gosh I've been making 40k videos and watching this is exhausting thinking the amount of work that went into it great job
Thanks dude!
If the planet is basically at the event horizon of a black hole time on the planet moves extremely slowly as compared to the rest of the galaxy. Depending on the dilation as compared to the rest of the galaxy. Similar to what happened in interstellar with Miler’s planet near gargantua. With that being said if the go down to that planet they will be under the same time dilation as the inhabitants of said planet. They experience time the same as everyone else it’s just much slower relative to someone outside the dilation. As long as the planet hasn’t crossed the event horizon escape should be possible.
Teleport the plane. The Mechanicus did it with Ullanor which became Armageddon
Crazy idea, that this world they want to recover is actually is/contains the location of the weapon that Vashtorr is looking for, Or the weapon is what black holed the planet and can be used to undo it.
Everything in 40k has unforeseen and expected consequences.
Resonate the Black Hole planet in some manner that you can detect in the warp, and look for that resonation...if the warp is timeless, then there's a path to that old moment, however hidden.
Then it's just a matter of following that path backwards when the job's done.
Cawl gonna need a time travel expert, he's not gonna get it in the imperium, but hes pal Trazyn happens to know one very powerfull time traveller ;)
Physics guy here: that is actually pretty close. Deeper down the gravitational well and the closer to C you travel the slower you perceive reality/time while reality/time outside seems to speed up. If you like anime the Gunbuster goes over this well. There was also that interstellar movie a few years back that was good at showing this.
Ciaphas Cain and Belisarius Cawl are two of the imperium's rarest humans who utilize common sense.
Fun fact: FTL is time travel in general relativity. Any kind, through another dimension (warp, hyperspace, subspace, whatever), teleport, warping spacetime, whatever.
So any sizeable civilization is already traveling backwards in time constantly, or much more likely, 40k does not operate on Einsteinian relativity. If they don't, then black holes and all that jazz work entirely differently, so we can't really tell anything.
In regards to the concerns of time travel - it would only be "time travel" in the regard that the *planets time* has to all outside observers 'stopped' as it passed beyond the event horizon due to the mechanics of black holes. It's essentially a memento of the past frozen in place, so the characters themselves wouldn't be hopping inside a time machine and zipping back into the past in actuality. They'd just have to deal with the time dilation effects of getting back out of the black hole and returning to the 41st millennium.
1 old one would be galaxy changing they are basically all emperor or greater level psychers, who can create new life forms on a whim.
Cawl has a necron chronomancer as a prisoner, he's likely to use her to create a stable tunnel from 41k to the necrontyr world which I assume is something that can be done from the outside in but the necrontyr/old ones on the planet can't do from the inside out as from their perspective that would be going into the future.
Black hole time dilation comes up in so much sci fi. It's a real sign of how much 40k is usually just pew pew in space that this showing up is a big deal.
I think the necron pylon tech could be adapted to close the webway, freeing the emperor from his internment on the throne in order to be reborn.
When crossing the event horizon of a blackhole it will appear that time stops but nothing that goes in can come out
Something Stuck on event horizon of black hole where time stops or slows down. Outside forces pull it out of black hole, person trapped in time gets essentially transported from the past to the present. A present where there is war and conflict and is much worse than the past
This is the plot of the kevin sorbo tv series Andromeda
Cawl makes his own comedic version of a Black Mirror episode. I giggled almost at every single AI Guilliman’s response. Not to mention Cawl being a smartass throughout the whole exchange knowing the the AI cant do shit 😂
So if Cawl travels from "now" to the planet where "now" is actually "then", he is linked to "than" ... which is a time zone we know several characters hail from. There could very well be a display on Solemnace with Cawl looking smug waiting for Trayzen to reawaken him "now".
Close to gravity - when watched from far away you look slow, for you time is normal but outside world look faster.
Moves super fast- when watched from far away you look super fast, for you outside is super slow. That means, when for you seconds pass, for outside years pass. For a photon with speed of light, fraction of a second pass, when outside experiences billions of years.
Those 2 rules are important to coordinate GPS, fast moving satelite clock and surface high grać phone clocks.
I suspect that in theory the imperium has gravity warping technology. After all they have artificial gravity on their ships and grav weapons and whatnot.
The planet is effectively locked in stasis due to the gravitational warping of the black hole. The harsher the gravity, the slower time moves. So the closer you are to a black hole, the slower time moves for you compared to everyone else. Thus as the planet nears the event horizon, it's basically paused in time.
In theory, if Cawl could reverse engineer some existing gravity manipulation tech to create a bubble of normal gravity around himself, he would be immune to the time dilation of the black hole and would be able to wander around on this planet frozen in time.
"That's a qualification!" LMAO
Cal is best herasy part human octopus this is better then the meme with him asking Gillaman about veggies
I'm here for the lore, love it 👍👌
I would be amazed at having a copy of my mind available to me. That would be awesome! :D
Come on chat gpt
@@SandmanofTerra I think I'd create an infinite loop of "What If's..." . Oh the things I'd create haha. I'm a big Cawl fan. :)
The way it's explained in genefather is that due to the extreme gravity caused by a black hole time goes extremely slowly so even 60-odd million years later the planets inhabitants are still looking up at the sky awaiting their doom. So even if Belisarius spent 60odd million years on the planet collecting the data he needs, literally seconds will have passed anywhere else in the galaxy. Meaning he has PLENTY of time to do what he needs to and time will have passed but so little that he'd basically be going back to the same time. (Same result as on Molech but by TOTALLY different means). Btw, time is thought to behave like this under EXTREME gravity. I.e. near a black hole. The closer you get to a black hole, the more time slows. Hope this clears things up 😊
There really isn't much explaining to do. It's just impossible, I get people don't understand but I wish for things like this they would just say "warp tricks" if you use science you should at least use it correctly. If time dilation were to occur on this level the entire planet would already be broken into microscopic pieces. People have a hard time understanding how much gravity would be affecting the planet, or just choose to ignore it. Remember EXTREME gravity = time dilation.
Interesting, that time travel can open up more plots, what happen if Silent King learned how to reverse from mechanic body to flesh from Belisarius Cawl’s body modification? Or Cawl may go back a bit too far off and end up meeting with Necrontyr before they threw away their flesh?
Cawl could make copies of himself put him in a stasis feild and fire it into the event horizon and control the replica from his ship maybe
Guilliman's true father is Konor Guilliman - forever and always
Cawl has the emperors mark on him, its why he has a get out jail free card. Dude is untouchable.
The emperor that sits on the throne is absorbing the energy of the warp, just like he did to become the dark king. The rift closing wouldnt change anything, the longer it stays around the more power he absorbs.
Getting an old one react to the Ynnari death crusade and the Tyranids would be incredible
Theory: Original Alpha through the cabal’s revelation saw an alternative third way to save the imperium. Omega died at the hands of Royal Dorn, Alpha faked his death after the worse outcome of the Horus Heresy came to be. Then the “true” long war began, utilizing the distraction of chaos corruption over 10,000 years outside of the warp until the still highly secretive psychological indoctrination protocols are initiated and Alpha pulls a Word Bearers and sends his own infant form through time back to Terra. Double time loop twist, maybe?
Omega set the precedent that an entire secret mini empire exists that supports the Alpha Legion when Alpha originally found his twin.
Very interesting talk
With you mentioning age of sigmar, id be really interested to hear you talk about some of the lore from that game! It seems a lot better than it did when it was first introduced
As a filthy casual fan, I don't understand a few things. It seems to me like Mars has all of the important stuff in the Mars/Terra alliance. They have all the war machines. They are the ones that manufacture most of the weapons and armor. They have most of the space ships. Like if Mars decided to go rogue, I don't think that Terra could stop them. Terra has the ability to inefficiently make Space Marines that have like a 90% washout rate, and from what I've observed, that's about it. Why does Belisarius Cawl even care what Roboute Guilliman thinks? Because it seems like Mars has pretty much all of the power in this relationship. At least that's how it looks from my layman perspective.
Well Mars does still need the emperor because of the astronomicon. They also believe (mostly) that the emperor is the omnissiah, the earthly manifestation of the machine god
@@SandmanofTerra So I guess that leads into my next question. Why doesn't Mars just come out and say something like that we no longer believe that you are serving in the best interest of the Omnissiah. Most of you, especially if you are an old school Space Marine, don't even believe in the divinity of The Emperor. We are going to wipe out the Adeptus Custodes because despite being in the presence of The Omnissiah all the time, you refuse to believe in his divinity. We are then going to replace the Custodes with Sororitas who DO acknowledge the supreme divinity of the God Emperor, and since we pretty much make all of your stuff, either do what we say or be branded a heretic.
Can you recommend me a book or a source that kinda goes into how the political power is looked at between Mars and Terra? If there isn't one, there should be and you should write/voice act it lol. That is if Games WorkShop hasn't imploded via culture war at that point.
Awwwwwww yiss more Sandman vids!
on the topic of the blackhole planet thingamajig, i can't help but wonder if the lion would be able to use his forrest walking (or whatever the formal name is ) ability to enter and exit said planet
Plot twist: the Weapon Vashtor seeks is locked on the same planet Cawl wants to visit
What if loyalist alpha marines trick magnus into pulling the planet out, Malcaldor yeeted a planet through the warp, I think tigerius, Mephiston, caldor draigo or if not them magnus could do it.
Great vid
yup. he is just visiting a place in slow mo.
now this means temporal dialation applies to him too though. so if 1 second is one year there and he spends an hour there.... then 3600 years pass outside.
hope it is just a 5 minute trip (3 centuries) if it the case. i do not know the timescale being discussed, but if the war in heavan is millions year past 1 sec to 1 year might not be out of the question (86400*365 years pass in a day, about 31 million years)
You kinda look William Scott Ritter Jr., love your lore videos.
Abaddon and Vashtorr's Excellent Adventure might take them back in time, too. ;)
I think so!
Personally I think this will be what comes out…. The warp used to be part of our space, but in order to defeat the old ones, the necrons discovered and used the blackstone pylons and beacon worlds to fold and separate the warp from realspace and imprison the old ones in the warp. Abbadon’s crusades were intended not just to hurt the imperium and the races of the galaxy but to weaken the prison holding the Old Four as well as the rest of the Old Ones and allow them to return as part of real space to dominate the galaxy once more.
I want more Cawl and Trazyn cooperation. Maybe Cawl will call him and say "Hey cleptozyn, we got a potentially alive old one, but there is a slight problem - he's on a planet inside black hole, anything you can do?" I imagine that'd be really funny
I recently heard that there is an excerpt from the new chaos marine codex that describes Perturabo and Vashtor have actually collaborated with each other in the past on some horrifying experiments involving demon engines and technology that is purely invented for the sole purpose of making your enemy suffer.
So apparently these two have met in the past and appeared to have a somewhat warm relationship, which makes me wonder why does Vashtor need Abaddon when he could easily ally with a demon Primark who is basically a demon prince of undivided.
Also, somebody mentioned the science behind the movie interstellar, which is actually based on real scientific data and because of the way time actually works versus how we perceive, it are two entirely different things .
In the movie, his daughter is able to write messages on the floor by moving dust aside, so there appears to be words in order to help the main character understand what he needs to know in order to save the but it’s so early in the movie that there isn’t much he understands at this point.
If I understand correctly time, whether it’s past present and future are all simultaneously happening at the same time .
We’re only able to be traveled backwards and One Direction then you would also have to deal with the problem of a paradox , what happens if you were to shoot yourself in the past you’re still alive but technically you shouldn’t be and if you weren’t then you wouldn’t have been able to visit yourself in the past and shoot yourself in a loop. Such a scenario cannot exist, which is why scientists have theorized that is simultaneously occurring but humans perceive it as moving forward and One Direction.
This is also a theory that is used in another movie that involves two giant aliens stuck in a spaceship with one of them dying .
They are not able to communicate using human language and it is later revealed after they hire the main character who is a translator of languages that it’s because the aliens use a form of language that exists through a simultaneous timeline.
Once she’s able to understand and learn the language, she is able to perceive time as the aliens do and is able to advert a world war based on the fact that once she sees what happens if she doesn’t help the alien and the aliens dying partner because there are other nations who are afraid of the spacecraft and at some point it’s Implied, it starts another world war that ends with the extinction of the human race as soon as she understands this, she is able to pick up the phone and call the Chinese ambassador and explain what’s going to happen.
I remember the Chinese ambassador almost blows her off and says this is impossible, and she says something to him that only he would know which places him in a state of shock and he immediately stalls any future plans of using nukes as do other countries and the human race up learning the language at the end of the movie, which in a way has our species evolve to a higher level of understanding once they are able to use this time based language which changes our perception so it accurately is able to see time for what it actually is.
Also is another concept called string theory, which is a very complicated discussion regarding multiple universes where we each have created based on our own decisions and their outcome but the question is how do we access these alternate dimensions created by string theory?
I think Vashtor plans on throwing Abaddon away after using him and his bulk to bore into the Vault.
Cawl won't be travelling in time to the planet, the planet has just been slowed down to a crawl. The question is how will Cawl go into the slowed time zone and back without the rest of the universe getting fast forwarded to 50k while he's there
Maybe its like futurama. He goes back in time but can't get back so he has to put himself to sleep until he's back in the current time. He meets the emperor and he puts him inside what was to be mars aka the void dragon. Na no way.
40:25 YO!!! WHO GOT THE EMPEROR'S COD-PIECE?? 😂😂
Cawl is being clever. As you get closer to a large body time changes, it slows down. If Cawl went without anyone who could modify the flow of time for himself. He would just end up outliving humanity. So he needs psykers who can modify the flow if time for himself so that he can get the infomation he needs. though he would have problems. If he tried keeping to the normal flow of time that the rest of the galaxy is flowing at he would in theory being doing the equivelant of traveling at FTL speeds to the people on the planet. He would have to allow some time dialation on himself or he would never be able to interact with any of the tech he needs. time dialation is the affect of time being changed by large bodies, i.e Black Holes. So Cawl 's gonna be gone a while unless he intentionally uses warp shinaigans to get around turning up up tens of millenia after he left. He probably would do that before he left find a way to trigger a massive time jump to get back not long after he went in
to observe it could it be just like looking at a light stream at a surton point ? so u can't change it just veiw its and move back the light would change the time back ? as the light its traveling to the center of the black hole
The skaven are technologically inclined and their god is the great horned rat. Vashtorr is related to technology, so he can be the great horned rat evolved. :D
Blasphemous man-thing! Horned Rat greater than false god-thing!
Jokes aside, sad as it is to say the Imperium of Man is the Skaven analog in 40K. If memory serves the High Lords are 12 in number with a 13th reserved for the Emperor or his stand-in (custodes). Humans reproduce at an obscene rate. The Emperors ultimate manifestation would have been the Dark King Chaos God of Ruin, which is what the Horned Rat was the epitome of. Their single greatest bane is the constant betrayal and power plays that sabotage their own success. Their claim that they will rise up and control all of the galaxy. The Eldars' general contempt for humanity bordering on the desire to genocide them. Much like the justifiable contempt for the Skaven. The weird and often times unnecessarily cruel design of the Imperial technology - The Emperors Ordo Sinister Psi-titans. Old lore but I seem to recall the Warp drives had psychers stuffed into them to act as the warp charge. The frequent use of abhuman slaves and depending on the region I am sure there are aliens used as slaves too. The Inquisition that runs around claiming Divine Mandate, not unlike the Grey Seers of the Horned Rat.
I'm sure I'm missing a few examples, those were just what came to mind immediately. My beloved rat-things are already represented by the absolute failure that is humanity.
so,this is how they plan to bring emperor back? real 'keys of hel' vibes, with biles cloneslugs...
I'm assuming cawl has some sort of temporal energy shield or field that can protect him and his company from the full effects. Otherwise it will be pointless.
Isn't it obvious?
The kneepads go to Lorgar so he can get down on his knees and..... then it gets REALLY grim dark.
I now want not one, but two krork to be released from the planet, and have them be received at Gork and Mork, thus fracturing the orks into a civil war to balance out the krork coming into the setting
Dammm. I said i won't bother with lore after the fall of cadia but that was cool
It is my layman understanding of a black hole that it has the effect of essentially warping spacetime in a confined space so that it stretches spacetime to effectively become all the same moment, meaning time effectively stops moving. I'm not sure if it can completely stop time by stretching it to infinity, but I'm not looking that up and my gut tell me no as the black hole does not have infinite mass. But the difficult part is how the heck do you leave when the gravity is so strong even the speed of light is not enough to escape its gravity? I'm thinking warp shenanigans, so Belisarius and the Mechanicus better be cooking some spicy warp spaghetti if they are to pull that off!
TL;DR: Big mass, time very slow near it... relatively speaking. 🤓
Since Abaddon is a direct descendant of Albert Einstein & Sun Ce...now... Doesn't it make a lot of sense. That he only had enough black stone. To make a tendril partly from the eye of terror to Terra. So he then broke open the great rift. So that now his path is a lot shorter.
It is true that time on a planet that has passed the event horizon of a black hole would have time slowed down to a stop. Although-- going there means passing the event horizon yourself. I guess since FTL technology exists in Warhammer it would be possible to escape it-- but then why haven't the residents of that planet already done that when they had FTL technology too?
Moreover, if one goes to a planet where time is slowed down so that seconds take centuries, then however much time he spends studying things there he won't emerge for several millenia. I bet you anything that the writers are just going to conveniently forget that fact or pretend he has some sort of "time window".
Wasn't there an aborted plan to teleport _Mars_ at some point?
Could they get the planet out of the black hole that way?
Gulliman: So we are fine, as long as nobody teleports any Necron worlds!
Cawl: Question.
I'd love to see Cawl go and get Orokan's help with the time fuckery
The Archmagos is Mechanicus so technically it's not heresy by his values.
His temporal dilation plan reminds me of the plot of Andromeda.
There's a theory I like that the watchers in the dark ARE the surviving old ones
Is it crazy to think the price of trazyn helping belesarius is once the imperium gets the tech to replace the pylon it couldn't defend, trazyn takes him for his zoo?
I can totally see Trazyn doing that. But being able to atleast push the warp back would be worth it.
Considering half of the fanbase and imperium want to scorch him.
From my extremely basic understanding of physics time travel only works in one way, forward
Maybe he’s going to drop the planet into the warp and visit it there.
Or one of Trazyn’s pocket dimensions.
Hmmmm... even if the Emperor did have the 2 halves of his soul healed and rejoined into one I don't see him being able to get up off of that chair since he still has that Webway hole into the Warp right there in his Throne Room thanks to the Big Red Idiot.
Nice one again
You can get to the planet alright, the problem is how you escape from it. Time slows with increased gravity, so a planet so close to a black hole would practically frozen in time. But technically, time still flows for the planet itself, quite slowly. Just like interstellar ocean planet, when you leave you will find that eons have passed.
And all these only possible if you can find a solution to incredible stress the gravitational forces will inflict on any craft moving trough it. And that applies to planet too. I doubt it will be stable if they can land on it, the planet would be falling apart, literally. A time dilation that big requires the object to be too close to event horizon, the point of no return.
Oh the problem won't be escaping, they'll just conjure up some Necron artifact or something. The real problem will be getting back without some insanely powerful and dangerous stowaways.
@@HydraulicDesign not a Necron one, but maybe an Eldar one since they are better with warp stuff. Warp can make you go back in time in some cases, but they will have to travel back millions of years, which I never heard before in setting. They will be millions of years in future when they set foot on planet, each second of stay probably costing thousands of years.
Orikan would be very useful in this story.
When he went back in time to the planet he would be stuck there never able to go forward because his past would now become his present but he could link his Quantum consciousness with another body in the present time and just leave everything else behind and if it's just information he is after the information could be transferred through his Quantum connection as long as there's nothing physical that has to be transported to his other body in the current timeline
Always thought the Eldar culled the krorks until they reverted to Orks to make them "manageable." Read that somewhere.
I never got why the eldar didn't hunt the necrons as the slept
I still wish the fall of Cadia was Failadon throwing the blackstone fidget spinner to break Cadia THEN his army goes shoots up everyone and gets close to Sol before getting hit with something.
Just so dum he wastes all his men.. theb throws the Dinner Plate.