The R211's - What Are The Car Assignments?
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- Опубликовано: 10 окт 2024
- The R211s are the newest trains to grace the tracks New York City Subway System, and we know that they will be entering revenue service soon, but just where will they run? What lines will they run on? In this video, I give my thoughts on what I think the R211's car assignments will be.
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I am excited for all the fleet upgrades in NYC!
You and me both!
And me even though I won’t risk riding them
im not i like big windows lol
The Base order and option order 1 are based off of CBTC instalations while option order 2 is based off of capacity increases and fleet expansion
I agree with the whole video lol. I love the idea of having some R160 5 car sets from the (G) form to 10 car sets to the (B) and (D). after all, we do need NTT's on Concourse.
Yes, we do, especially with CBTC coming to 6th Avenue.
Yeah, but what will happen to the R68s?
@@KingofGamingAndTrains456 The R68 will be retired, leaving the entire B division with NTT trains. Additional R211 cars will be ordered.
@@KingofGamingAndTrains456 They will go to the N,Q, and W lines and be there for a while until late 2028
@@Ashes449 when the R68 is retired, i guess the new car there would be something like the R280, idk.
I will miss the R46’s since they are a key part of my memory in transit, but I am also excited for the R211’s!
They won’t be gone till 2025 and Maybe later ride the ACWQNrockoway park shuttle a bunch before they go
I hope the MTA powers that be are listening. Your projections make good sense, and all too often, whether it be buses or railcars, it looks as though the MTA simply throws everything up in the air and then runs them wherever they land.
I'm glad you agree with my predictions for the R211 assignments. I tried to put my line bias aside for this video, and think about the things that really matter, such as:
- CBTC Support
- Most Capacity/Overcrowding
- Faster Service
I do know that a big part of this order was to replace the R46s and R68s. Are all of those going with the arrival of the R211s or will we continue seeing them on the tracks for some time?
The N and Q Should have gotten those Cars Can't keep an Old Train
On those lines Forever
As an operator's point of view, the 46's on the A are dying. they're slow and are running terribly. So definitely the 211's will be going to the A especially they're doing all the cbtc work along 8th ave which I personally am going to hate. The 179's on the A are having issues too. I work the A 5 days a week so I know what's going on.
I believe you when you say that the 46’s are dying. You can hear & see it. And yes the CBTC system I really didn’t like what I heard about it. It’s sad.
The R46's definitely are dying. I have a relatives that used to work the (A), (retired recently) and he said that they are on their last legs. Wasn't it just a few weeks ago when a traction motor caught on fire at Broadway Junction?
@@MysticTransit I didn't hear about that but it doesn't surprise me, a lot of 46's that are out of Pitkin have dead motors. and instead of fixing them all they do is keep them running till they die on the road. It's sad what the A line has become besides all the homeless people living in the cars.
Were the R32s in better shape than the 46s? Maybe they should have retired the 46s before the R32s
@@ariesmichaelsayan4013 sorta but only because they were in life support with too much maintenance during their final years. The 42s were the worst cars for a number of years.
Since 2019, I have had my own views on the R211 car assignments and these are it:
- Base order of 535 cars sent to 207 St Yard / Pitkin Yard / Concourse Yard for the A, B, C, D, and S(R) lines. Displaced R68s from Concourse would be sent to Coney Island Yard to retire R46s based there. Under this plan, the B would be transferred to Concourse Yard.
Additionally, 8 car R179s based out of 207 St Yard would be displaced to Jamaica or Coney Island Yard, depending on where the G is based out of at that time, which would expand the G fleet to 84 cars.
During this time, Concourse will run a mixed fleet of R68s and R211s, as the MTA would likely choose to displace or retire the Pitkin R46s first due to 8 Av CBTC. This would leave Option Order 1 to displace the rest of Concourse's 68s to Coney Island and potentially expand Jamaica's fleet. By the end of this option order, all R46s will have been replaced or used as a contingency fleet, but being phased out. For option order 2, I'd like to think that the MTA would send some of the 5 car sets to Coney Island Yard to either expand the fleet further, or even retire some of the R68/As in the worst condition. The 4 car sets in East New York would be used to expand the fleet, but also to displace some 4 car R160s and/or R179s to Coney Island Yard for further expansion of the G line fleet.
Note: If Coney Island gets R211s, I have a feeling they'd prioritize the (Q) to receive the trains, as the (Q) has more opportunities to be rerouted onto a different line than the (N/W).
W plan
@Mr. Foamer Just speculation
This seems like a good prediction. I agree, if Coney gets the R211's, they will most likely go to the (Q).
@@MysticTransit fax
@@MysticTransit especially with the possibility of SAS getting CBTC
I see them being on Coney Island and Concourse Yards B,D,G,N,Q & W trains. Concourse will be unique because it has both R211s and R262s if in service
This is how you grow from bus foamer to content creator, and I wish people in other cities did these types of videos that are modeled after RMtransit and the like
Lmao, I wouldn't consider myself a "foamer". Certainly not a "bus foamer", but I try my best to create quality videos on transit for all people.
W
I hope you’re not using the term “foamer” in a bad sort of way!
wwwwwwww
I agree with the whole video, the (A), (B), (C) and (D) lines desperately need the R211 cars. As for as I know, these trains have had mostly the same type of trains for decades, so it's time for an upgrade on these lines. It's no brainer that the (E), (F), (M), and (R) would receive some R211s because of CBTC on the Queens Blvd line, and I think it's a great idea for the (G) train have R160s and the R179s from the (C), (J) and (M) lines so it can be extended to 8 cars like you said. The (J) should also get some R211s to help upgrade it's line.
However, I somewhat agree for the non-Queens Blvd Broadway lines. The (Q) and the (W) trains having the R68/A's are fine to me, but I think the (N) train should have some NTTs because I've heard plans to for it to move to the Queens Blvd line while the Queensboro Plaza station gets a renovation soon. I honestly think this new service should be permanent (with the (N) entering the line via 63rd street) because a lot of people complain about the (R) service in general and I think with an extra local service tagging along with the (M) and (R) trains, it can really help local service go faster since the (N) is express in Manhattan and Brooklyn. As for Astoria, the (W) line should serve it alone because I remember going to Astoria all the time in the past and there was a lot of track work which rerouted the (W) to the 2nd Ave Line, leaving the (N) train by itself, so it seems like having only one train going there will make things more simpler. The extra R68/A's can also help the (W) have it's own fleet from the (N) and be extended into Brooklyn.
With that in mind, my final assignments for the Broadway line would be:
(N): R160s & R211s (Possible to receive more R160s, so won't make official numbers yet, but the total should be about 29-31 trains)
(Q): 264 R68/As (33 trains) (Service expansion for the line because as of now, it only has enough equipment for 22 trains)
(R): R160s & R211s (Possible to receive more R211s, so won't make official numbers yet, but the total should be about 29-31 trains)
(W): 256 R68/As (32 trains) (Service expansion for the line)
I miss the old mta this new one sucks I miss when the A was 100 percent 44/46 When the C had 100 percent 32s
The J is not getting R211. R211s are not going to the East New York Yard. The R211 are going to the Pitkin and what you have said Concourse and Coney Island Yard. The B is based out of CIY while the D is based out of Concourse.
i have a theory, during mid decade of 2020-2029, the R68/As will be on the N/Q/W lines and the R211s will be on the A/B/C/D trains if they're gonna do CBTC on the IND 8th Avenue line, thereby removing all the R46s
As a daily D train rider I really hope that we get r211s the trains are always so crowded
R211*
D trains are most likely getting 100% R211’s
@@karinathomas6506 yup, but we gotta wait....a whileee.
@Dagamez DM The B is also getting them if the D has them because they both run on 6th avenue and often get rerouted over 8th avenue
B trains are D trains so w e happens to D will happen to B
Another option could be if Jamaica swallowed the rest of the R160’s from ENY from the J/Z and made 9 car G trains and used an option order for 4 car R211’s for the J/Z or an option order for full length R211 C trains and push the R179’s to the J/Z
First day off 211 service it gets its breaks pulled before it even leaves the station: anyway mystic loved the video and agree with the plan but this was my alternative plan i made a month ago or so
(A) (C) 10 car R211’s 10 car R179’s
(B) (D) 10 car R211’s
(E) (F) (R) R160’s
(G) 8 car R179’s
(N) (Q) (W) R68/A’s and its R160’s from the G back
(J) (Z) R143 R160 R179
(L) R143 R160
(M) R160
My plan has every line getting some form of NTT’s
The G is not getting R179's because R160s are swapped there PERMENANTLY in there. So there is no reason to send r179's to the G line. Also, Crosstown CBTC is confirmed by the MTA and they are implementing CBTC on the Crosstown Line and it is coming soon.
I hope to be able to operate these soon, especially since I operate mostly on 8th Avenue lines. It really pains me that Broadway doesn't get CBTC, but the MTA doesn't have enough cars yet to retire r68s or there A counterparts, nor do they have enough r211's to put them in full service on all the lines in this video that were speculated to have them. This will be true i think in a few years like maybe 2026, but expect them on the A lines first, and all the r46's on the line would temporarily shift over to Broadway N,Q and W service and the B and D lines on 6th Avenue, until they are retired. I'm gonna miss the r46's though 😢. But modernization is inevitable, and awaited, so here they come!
Yeah. I know that this isn't gonna happen in the next 1-2 years. We only have like 10 cars so far, but should all options be exercised, I really see these being the car assignments.
Yup, also, there is currently 30 cars so far, 2 more shipments had come in overnight, but I doubt anyone knew about them. At least that’s what I heard, and I have seen 1 of the other sets while operating the S in far rockaway.
I was honestly was told by some of my co operators, but I believe them because, why would they lie
The R211 is gonna be 1612 that’s more than enough to replace R46s and R68s
Totally agree here. Unfortunately my Broadway line gets the shaft again .
No worries. It will get better soon. The q line is going to get upgraded with CBTC as soon as 2nd avenue subway part two is completed so the T train can run NTT's, so just pray it happens soon.
Shafted lmaooo
The A/C has gotten shafted for 30 years.
No disrespect, You sound entitled.
@@R323838 true a/c got treated the worst in the system for over 30 years but not no more cuz those lines will be fully NTT.
@@R323838 The E riders are more entitled
@@R323838wdym the A and C been shafted those were the two lines to have the most legendary equipments the 32s the 44s the 38s 42s 40 slants 46s those line were popping back then nowadays is more bland and boring but back then it was something you couldn’t miss
I think the R211 car assignments might be a little more straightforward:
-The A/C trains will keep their R179 cars and receive the 460 R211 cars from the base order of 535 cars, for 8th Avenue CBTC (This leaves behind the 75 R211S cars for the Staten Island Railway). The C will continue to run different length trains like it has been doing with the R46s.
-ONLY the base order cars will get CBTC equipment installed. This means Jamaica Yard (E/F/G/R trains) won't be getting any R211 cars, so those lines would keep their R160s.
-If the MTA exercises the first option order of 640 cars (all 5-car sets), they would go to Coney Island and Concourse yards (B/D/N/Q/W trains). The B/D would need them to be NTT at Columbus Circle for 8th Avenue CBTC, and the N/Q/W would need them since they are easier to switch between routes at terminals. If the MTA decides to make the B/D lines 100% R211s, the R68s from Concourse would be displaced to Coney Island yard to replace some of the R46s there. The N/Q/W lines would run a mix of R211, R68, and R68A units.
-It is too early to determine whether or not the second option order of 437 cars (81 5-car sets and eight 4-car sets) will be exercised, but if it is, the 4-car sets would probably go to East NY yard for the J and Z lines.
Tbh im pretty excited to see NTTs on the B and D lines in the future and I cant wait for the whole B division to be almost 100% NTT!
I’ve had a number of thoughts on the assignment of the R211 cars. However, one came to mind for me and would make the most logical sense from both a maintenance POV and a passenger POV. Specifically:
Base order:
All 440 subway cars in this order would be assigned directly to Pitkin Yard. This allows for 380 cars for the A and 20 cars for the Rockaway Park Shuttle, and also a direct replacement of the 352 R46 cars assigned to the Pitkin Yard. Meanwhile I was thinking that the 130 R179 cars would be assigned to the C train alongside its fleet of 92 R179s, bringing a total of 24.5 trains, though it does bring me issues of trains of the same type in different lengths operating on the same line, though an option would be to rotate a portion of the R211s between the A and C and keep the R179s on the A.
Option order 1 (640 cars):
This option order I’ve had some different thoughts on it. Originally, my plan was to have 380 cars assigned to the N/W. Initially this made sense since at that time, the line needed 330 cars of various for the peak service and replacing these hodgepodge assignments to one car type for the whole line could simplify things. I was also under the impression that Astoria would be getting CBTC. In light of recent information regarding 8th Avenue CBTC, this has been changed to have the 380 cars assigned to the D route at Concourse Yard, indirectly replacing a portion of the 396 R46 cars by sending all 276-284 R68 cars over to that yard for the Broadway Line N/W, and Q, which are not getting CBTC.
Meanwhile, the remaining 260 cars would be assigned to the Jamaica Yard for the E train. No surprise there since the line is already at capacity, and a 10% capacity increase from the open gangways can make all the difference in crowding on the trains. Seriously, why have the most crowded lines in the B division have zero open gangway trains when other lines are not routinely crowded? Literally makes zero sense. All these cars would make up the entirety of the E with the R160s acting as spares.
As a result of all of this, all 260 Siemens R160s would be moved over to 207th Street Yard for the C train. At this point, since the 260 cars would make up 100% of the C train needs (180 trains for the rush hour), the fleet rotations with the A would end, and all the R179s would be displaced. The 92 4 car R179s would be displaced to East NY Yard (and by extension, Canarsie and Fresh Pond Yards). No cars will be moved out of there as a result, resulting in more trains available for the J/Z to reduce the need for the R143 fleet rotations on the L. Originally, I had the 130 5-car R179s moved over to the Coney Island Yard. The move of the G back to Jamaica Yard, which took me by surprise, has changed things and new assignments will be needed.
At this point, the N/W would’ve had 304 R68s, the Q would’ve had 200 R68As, and the B would’ve had 112 R68s and 130 R179s and the G would’ve had the 90 R160s. A little weird.
Option order 2 (437 cars):
Finally, this fleet expander will have two components: 32 cars in 4-car units and 405 cars in 5-car units. For the first part, the 32 cars would be placed on the Eastern Division, for whatever line possible. The remaining cars would’ve been assigned to Coney Island Yard, with 315 cars going to the B for CBTC and remaining 90 for the G. The final assignments would’ve been:
(A): 440 R211s (44 trains)
(B): 315 R211s (31.5 trains)
(C): 260 R160 Siemens (26 trains)
(D): 380 R211s (38 trains)
(E): 260 R211s, 60 R160s (320 cars, 32 trains)
(F): 520 R160s (52 trains)
(G): 130 R179s, 90 R211s (220 cars, 22 trains)
(J/Z): 188 R179s, 56 R160s (244 cars, 30.5 trains)
(L): 212 R143s, 96 R160s (308 cars, 38.5 trains):
(M): 220 R160s, 32 R211s (252 cars, 31.5 trains)
(N/W): 304 R68 cars (38 trains)
(Q): 112 R68s, 200 R68A cars (312 cars, 39 trains)
(R): 450 R160s (45 trains)
This assignment ensures that higher ridership lines like the E can get some R211s and simplifies maintenance since some yards can maintain no more that two car fleet types (some like Concourse can continue to maintain and store one and only one car type) and other like Coney Island and East NY can be a “jack of all trades” type yard and maintain more types.
So would the R211s make up the entire (A) line's fleet?
@@KingofGamingAndTrains456 With this plan I have, it would be safe to say that the R211 base would make up the entirety of the A and Rockaway Park Shuttle, in terms of service requirements and spare cars.
@@TheRailLeaguer ok. i would see the 260 Siemens R160s being *shared* between the A and C lines instead of running only on the C line, so that the C line has an opportunity to snag a few R211s.
@@KingofGamingAndTrains456 That could be a possibility as well. However do keep in mind that these are merely predictions, though it is known that 8th Avenue is in line for the base order.
From there we have two option orders: one for 640 cars and another divided into two sets: a set of 405 5-car sets, and another for 32 4-car sets. The assignment of these cars can be based on who’s is getting or already has CBTC.
@@TheRailLeaguer What about the remaining R160s from the G? Instead of assigning of them to the E bc they have enough trains you can assign the remaining 9 sets of R160s on the G back to N/W to also give the N/W some NTTs and replace part of the R68/A order. Its better for the N/W to get it over the Q bc they share their trains and it is hard to change the signs on the R68/A.
The A/B/C/D/E will all need to be 100% NTT in preparation for 8th avenue CBTC for rerouting flexibility. The most likely possibility is the base order going to the B/D and r68/as on those services going to the N/Q/W and some r211s going to the A/C to make their fleets all NTT.
@Dagamez DM The B and D need NTTs in preparation for 8th Avenue CBTC so they can be easily rerouted if anything goes wrong.
@Dagamez DM Where would they get r160s from, they can't appear out of nowhere.
The base order is the A C Rockaway Park Shuttle and the Staten Island Railway. The one you said R211s going to the B D E is the option 1 order.
New Technology trains are long over due on the A, C, B, D, and G lines. I am happy they are finally getting the love they need. Now for the IRT to get some new “wheels” lol
I pray to God that the 4 5 6 S lines get some love 💕 with CBTS in the future because Lexington Avenue a busy line also . I have a real spriital feeling that they are definitely gonna have the R262as I'm telling you.
1: The B/D will most likely not get R160s, as they will get factory fresh R211s for CBTC bc the B/D has used R68 for about 30 years so it's about time they get the newest fleet.
2: The G can use displaced R179s from the C, it's enough. Your getting 11-12 tph so that is good.
3: As the G is getting the R179s now, the remaining R160s don't need to go to Concourse as they have enough trains (R211), you can assign the remaining R160s back to the N/W. The reason I am not assigning them to the Q is bc the N/W share their trains and it is hard to change the signs on the R68/A. Bringing the fact if the Q ever gets rerouted over 6th Ave, it won't get CBTC until 2030 or so and that is when the R68/A will have replacements.
4: You neglected the Rockaway Park Shuttle, as it still uses the old R46. You can assign 16 R211 cars to Rockaway Park Shuttle (the 32 cars from the 4 car option order) to replace the R46. This not only extends the SR from 2 to 4 cars, but also there is a leftover 16 cars (2 trains) to assign to East New York for J/M service. On weekdays the M would use one R211 train ph and the J would have the other R211. On weekends the J/M will use fully R160/R179 to allow for the R211s to get mantainence.
I like this👏🏼
I don't think G Line is getting R179s and because the G is staying at Jamaica Permanently means that they are staying there and keeping R160s and because Crosstown CBTC is coming soon. I think R179's should stay on the A and C and retrofitt with CBTC. I don't think J and M should get R211.
Man, its kind of ironic - the N, Q, and W trains have gotten the nicest, shiniest, cleanest trains and the best treatment for like 12 years ever since the R160s were delivered. But ever since 2020, with the swap, they've had the script flipped on them and now are gonna be consistently getting the oldest and most outdated equipment for the next 12 years. It's very possible that they are now the least priority lines for all of the B division, even if they get a lot of service.
I’m kinda mad about that- but at least we’ll get some R211’s, if they order more.
In 10-15 years, However, the R268’s will replace all the R68’s on the N/Q/W and Broadway will have the shiniest cars once again.
We will have to deal with it for now.
@@storm1602 No they not replacing all the R68/as . The R211as/TS are definitely replacing all the R46/44s . Now when the R268/as comes for CBTCS the R268/as will be replacing all the R68/as in that order. Another thing to when the brand new R262/as comes for CBTCS it will replacing all the R62AS R62S for the A devisin s which is the iRT lines number s trains.
@@leecornwell5632 The N/Q/W is least priority for the R211’s. We (CIY) will get whatever is left over. But yeah, that’s completely true. The 68’s still have life in them. But they will be replaced.
So They still Gonna Use the R68 For Another 10 Years I do Miss the R160 On the N and Q lines I know why Because the Queens lines Have CBTC
And I know They Gonna have CBTC On the 8th Ave Line So For the N and Q To Get CBTC How long will that take
Here’s what I predict the rolling stock assignments will be when the R211’s start coming into service:
First off, The A and C will undoubtedly use R211’s, that is confirmed information by the MTA. However I think they might spice it up a notch.
The A can use both R179’s and R211’s, while the 8-car R179’s from the C are moved to the G, which will also receive R211’s, as well as the R. In turn, the R160’s on the G and R will be moved to the B, C, D, and Q lines, which will also use R211’s.
The C and D will receive R160B’s from the G and R, both with the Alstom and Kawasaki traction motors, while the B and Q use only the Alstom-built R160A-2’s. The A will use R160’s from the C during late nights while the R179’s and R211’s undergo maintenance, and the R will still be able to interchange R160’s with the E and F at Jamaica Yard, along with the R211’s.
The M will use both R160A-1’s and R211’s, with a small number of R160A-1’s being moved to East New York Yard to be used on the J/Z and L lines. During weekends and late nights, the M can use R143’s from the J/Z and L while the R211’s undergo maintenance. The J/Z will continue using R143’s, R160’s, and R179’s, and the L will continue using both R143’s and R160’s.
Lastly, we have the N and W. Sadly, they’ll simply just get the short end of the stick from the fleet swap, by getting R68/A’s displaced from the B, D, and Q lines. You did mention that Broadway would not be getting CBTC anytime soon, but the thing is, I don’t want the R to continue sticking out like a sore thumb as the only Broadway line with NTT’s while the other 3 primarily use SMEE trains, so either the N/W or the Q would have to get the short end of the stick. I went with the former since the Astoria branch isn’t getting CBTC either, at least until after CBTC is fully installed on the 6th and 8th Avenue lines, and Culver as well.
And before I forget: the shuttle lines. The Rockaway Park Shuttle will receive R68/A’s displaced from the Q. The Franklin Avenue Shuttle will also continue using R68’s.
My Prediction for the R179 at Pitkin and 207th Street Yard is to keep them and also retrofit CBTC on the R179. If the MTA wants to make Fully R211A on the A and C lines. It means that the R179s will be displaced from Pitkin and sent to Coney Island Yard for the N and W possibly the Q. The R179 from 207 Street Yard would go to East New York Yard for the J/Z for increasing the sparefactor there.
Even with the G going 480ft that doesn't necessarily mean Culver will run F full express service because Bergen st. Now if MTA reopens the lower level I can see that happening ( but mta won't)
I never said it "will". I want it to though. It would increase the speed of the line, and help tons of Culver riders.
Also, I agree with reopening Bergen St LL.
@@MysticTransit At minimum it would help with reliability because the F would be deinterlined from the G. So a delay that happens on one line doesn't impact the other.
@@MysticTransit Yeah, when the G terminated at Smith-9th I could understand only using one platform but, in expanding the route all the way to Church, maybe it would've helped the MTA to reopen the LL ASAP.
I have a prediction that there will be three yards the R211 would go
The first yard would OBVIOUSLY be Pitkin/207 street yard. The A and C would share the fleet and the C would get to 10 cars.
The second yard would be concourse, they will get R211s that would run on the B/D.
The third yard would either be Jamaica Yard or Coney Island Yard
• For Coney Island Yard, the R211s would displace most of the R46s with the rest of the fleet replaced by the R68/As from concourse. All would run on the N/Q/W
•For Jamaica Yard, the R211s would run on the E/F trains and sometimes the R. The amount of the R160s that would get displaced by the R211s would get sent to Coney Island Yard.
Like come on, you have to give the N/Q/W some type of new tech.
The N/Q/W have gotten really bad service in the past few years. People are starting to dislike the amount of laziness put into Broadway because of CBTC. The N/Q/W are really popular, and the MTA made a sh*t move sending all the R68’s to coney.
For the Second Yard, the B can't be reassigned to Concourse/Mosholu Yard because it is just a small yard than the CIY and the Concourse serves the 4 and the D lines so I am 50% sure that the D would get R211s and I am sure that R160s are going to the D. For Jamaica Yard is most likely sense to go to the E and F and sometimes the R. The B will have R160s displaced from Jamaica and some for the N/W and Q.
Childhood Gone R46 A and R32 C will forever be legends
fr 😪
The R211s on my opinion, are going to lines that have High Ridership and CBTC which are the 8th Avenue and Queens Boulevard Lines.
Confirmed by the MTA:
(A) and (C) lines are getting the R211 first as the 8th Avenue CBTC is coming soon and the 8th Avenue CBTC will be completed in late 2024. My opinion to start CBTC on the 8th Avenue will start in 2025 after the R46 from the A and C line are retired. Because of the R211 delivery going on right now. R46 can be displaced from Pitkin and go to the Coney Island Yard to increase the spare factor of the (N) (Q) and (W) Lines. Now the R179 I would believe to be retrofit with CBTC and just keep in the 207th Street and Pitkin Yard. There are R179's running in the Rockaway Park Shuttle and the R211 can go to the Rockaway Park Shuttle and probably the R211T to run in 2025 even though the R211T are running on the C line right now. The A and C getting R211 is confirmed by the MTA.
My Predictions after the (A) (C) and Rockaway Park Shuttle:
Queens Boulevard has CBTC and the R211 has more capacity than R160s. So the R211s are going to lines that have CBTC. So what I believe the R211s should go is the (F) and (R) lines. The QBL will have a mix of R160 and R211s. The E and F have high ridership and E can have R211 as well because it has high ridership. Probably the R would get some R211 or get all R211 or not get R211. The (E) and (F) can have R211 because of high ridership according to rumors saying that. But I would say (F) and (R) getting R211. What will happen to the R160 in Jamaica Yard will get displaced to other lines. Other Rumors are saying that they want the (N) (Q) and (W) to get R160's back probably because their childhood memories riding on these fleets. The R160s will go to the Coney island Yard and also the Concourse Yard for the (B) and (D) lines. People who said that they want R160s back to the (N) (Q) (W) lines, I would say don't worry because they will be back but they would have some of R160 even the B is a part time route also for the W. The r160s are going to the (B) and (D) lines when the R211s are on the QBL lines. The (N) (Q) and (W) can have some in weekdays. Now what will happen to the R68s from Concourse is they will transfer their R68s from Concourse to Coney Island Yard said by most of the rumors and R68s will be reassigned to the (N) (Q) and (W). The R68 and R68A's in the Coney Island Yard will be reassigned to the (N) (Q) and (W). (N) (Q) (W) can have stock of SMEES although Broadway and Astoria CBTC aren't coming anytime soon.
What I think I find False:
1) People saying that R211s are going to the (N) (Q) and (W) after the (A) and (C) lines:
That is my opinion before I heard from rumors. But the (N) (Q) and (W) are not getting R211s because R211s are going to lines that have CBTC and high ridership. Broadway CBTC and Astoria CBTC isn't coming anytime soon so the (N) (Q) and (W) aren't getting R211. If you think the (B) and (D) are keeping those cars and are not New Technology Trains, they are getting New Technology Trains and they are getting displaced R160. R211s can go to the B and D if there is 6th avenue CBTC announced by MTA. But I will talk that on #2. Like I said on the previous part about my predictions is that the R68s from Concourse is they will transfer their R68s from Concourse to Coney Island Yard said by most of the rumors and R68s will be reassigned to the (N) (Q) and (W). The R68 and R68A's in the Coney Island Yard will be reassigned to the (N) (Q) and (W). (N) (Q) (W) can have stock of SMEES although Broadway and Astoria CBTC aren't coming anytime soon. The (N) and (Q) can have some NTT's even the B and W are the part time route. So the R68 and R68A's in 2025 are on the (N) (Q) and (W).
2) People saying that the R211s are going to the (B) and (D) lines after the (A) and (C) lines:
They can have R211 even when the MTA has announced the 6th Avenue Line and they modernizing signals now. 6th Avenue CBTC is in the 2020-2024 Capital Program. But, I don't think that the R211s aren't happening to go on the B and D lines because 6th Avenue CBTC hasn't been announced by the MTA and I didn't see modernizing signals on the 6th Avenue Line now. The B and D aren't getting New Technology Trains since the R160 delivery which is 2005-2010. But now, the B and D are getting New Technology Trains which are getting displaced R160 which I talked back in the previous predictions. (N) (Q) and (W) can get some R160 in weekdays and also the B and W are part time route. (B) and (D) are getting NTT which are the R160.
If 6th Avenue CBTC is announced by the MTA:
6th Avenue CBTC is in the 2020-2024 Capital Program, but in reality they are not modernizing signals and the 6th avenue CBTC isn't announced yet. If the MTA has announced the 6th Avenue CBTC and they are working to modernize signals on the 6th Avenue Line, the R211s can go for the B and D lines 100% and the (N) (Q) and (W) can have some even the B and W are part time route. But this is reality and they don't announced it yet.
R211s going to the Staten Island Railway:
The R211S will be going to the Staten Island Railway to retire those R44's in there. This will modernize cars on the SIR and for more capacity. The R211A and R211T are on the NYC Subway system. But in the SIR System, the R211S will be getting another signal system different than NYC Subway's CBTC. What I believe is the Pulse Code Cab Signaling for the Staten Island Railway. The R211S will be equipped with Pulse Code Cab Signaling System.
B Division Lines Prediction when it is 2025 and after:
A: R179 and R211
B: R160
C: R179 and R211
D: R160
E: R160 and R211
F: R160 and R211
G: R160
J: R160 and R179
L: R143 and few R160
M: R160
N: R68/A's and some R160
Q: R68/A's and some R160
W; R68/A's and some R160
SF: R68's
SR: R179 and R211
Z: R160 and R179
R211 Signal system equipment:
R211A: CBTC
R211T: CBTC
R211S: Pulse Code Cab Signaling System.
Anyways that is all my predictions of the B Division assignments.
All option order + base order = 1,545 cars if all orders are used.
My predictions if all are used:
(A/S): 440 R211's (44 trains)
(B): 270 R211's, 40 R160's (310 cars, 31 trains)
(C): 130 R179's, 50 R160's (180 cars, 18 trains)
*The A/C can also share all their cars*
(D): 380 R211's (38 trains)
(E): 320 R160's (32 trains)
(F): 520 R160's (52 trains)
(G) 88 R179's (11 trains)
(J/Z): 192 R179's, 56 R160's (248 cars, 31 trains)
(L): 212 R143's, 96 R160's (308 cars, 38.5 trains)
(M): 220 R160's, 32 R211's (252 cars, 31.5 trains)
(N/W): 380 R211's (38 trains)
(Q): 40 R211's, 80 R68's, 200 R68A's (320 cars, 39 trains)
(R) 450 R160's (45 trains)
I don’t think their gonna put 380 r211s on the N/W. I think their gonna even out the r211 fleet between the N Q W, IF the all the options are included. Or they put some r160Bs back on the N Q W
@@22k_LOL They might unless the R160B will get displaced to Concourse and Coney island for the B and D lines. In CIY for R160B, they would place some R160B on the N Q and W. This is if the R211s are running on QBL Line.
If the MTA wants the R211 on the Concourse and Coney Island. The R211 go to the B and D lines. It can't go fully to the N/W because Astoria and Broadway CBTC aren't coming anytime soon. Then r160s have to stay in Jamaica if that is the case. Because 6th Avenue CBTC is coming, the MTA can decide to put B and D trains with fully R211. Some N/Q/W will have some R211s. I don't think the M is getting R211s. G is not getting R179s because G train is staying with R160s and the G Line is staying in Jamaica Permanently and because Crosstown CBTC is coming.
Oh boy I’m excited to see them
I hope the B and D lines get them 1st order. It'll be cool to see the 211s in The Bronx
I hope so because I think they like the R211s in the Bronx. This will happen when MTA has announced 6th Avenue CBTC and I hope they have Concourse CBTC.
Thank you for this video I finally wanted to know where they might go or not
That was a great video about the R-211s But I don't think 💭 that the MTA would run the R-211 on Queens Blvd Routes . Due to them using R-160 already The A and C Routes and Band D need them more them E F M R. The ACBD use Older Trains then QBL routes .
They do, but I explained my reasoning in the video. The (A/C/B/D) will be getting NTT's, R211's included. The (E/F/M/R) are all very crowded, and will also be getting the R211's, as they have the most capacity.
@@MysticTransit Some R211s will go to the QBL to help the R160s
Yup. Let bet mystic
@@MysticTransit I can just hope that the R211T's get to QBL because it gets bad after Forest Hills (going west)
@@MTA_9929 the r211's have more passenger capacity than the r160's. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if Jamaica gets some of the option order of the r211's (especially the open gangway) and sends some of the r160's to Concourse.
Because that's were they run, I'm expecting the base order to go to the A and C, while the options to replace the remainder partially going to Coney island. The rest we don't know.
The assignments are based on CBTC installations, and so far, Broadway isn’t on the list for CBTC, unless you’re referring to the Coney Island Yard-based B route. The base order would be mostly going to the 8th Avenue Line while the options could be going to Queens Blvd and one other location.
I wanna see them on the A,C,B,D,N and Q
What about this some R160s will be on broadway line like N Q W trains like they did with R32s
No.
@@MysticTransit yes it could happen soon broadway line will get cbtc in the future
@@keeganjohnson8648 Not anytime soon. We got 6th, 8th, culver line and crosstown that will need CBTC in the overcrowded lines. As much as I want broadway to get NTT again, the line will be fine without it when the 68/As come.
@Dagamez DM you think so will see about that
@@MysticTransit the only CIY line that could see NTTs when the 211s come is the (Q). Likely will be 160s from Jamaica
i will miss The R46's, But I Do Feel It Is Time For New Trains On The A Line.
Put 160s (regular & Siemens [8653-9202 or 12]) to the concourse on the Blake & Daphne lines should b very interesting, while the QBL can get 160s after 9203 or 13 & 211s
The R160 Siemens numbers range from 8843 to 9102, which is 260 cars. Combine that with the 8652-8842 range, which is about 190 cars, that about 450 cars. That alone won’t be enough for the B and D lines, especially for CBTC operations. If anything, the best one can do is assign nearly all of the option orders to the Queens Blvd Line and the whole base order to Pitkin and 207th Street Yard. This could make the E and F routes 100% R211, while the R160s are offloaded elsewhere.
Don’t worry if someone says that Queens Blvd shouldn’t get the R211s. They’re definitely lying.
That would never happen ever
@@karinathomas6506 Why?
It is too soon to know where they will go as they are just in the testing phase, the MTA has final say on car assignments, and that can always change.
I think the R211 assignments will go this way
Base order of 535 R211A/R211T cars will be assigned to Pitkin yard/207th St/Concourse yard to run on the A/C/D and Rockaway Shuttle. The R179's on the A will stay for extra service, the 8 car R179 based out of 207th St yard would be displaced over to either Coney Island or Jamaica which will depend on the yard the G is assigned to. C trains will be extended from 8 to 10 cars and G trains will have its trains extended from 5 to 8 cars.
During this time, the B will most likely run a mixture of R211's and R68/As unless it changes to Concourse, where it will run 100% R211's. The MTA will most likely retire all of Pitkin's R46's since they are in worse condition then the R46's at Coney Island and for 8th Av CBTC. In addition to that, the R68's from Concourse will be displaced to Coney Island, retiring some of their R46's.
Option order 1: This option order of 640 cars I think has 2 possibilities. The first and most likely possiblity is that all 640 cars in this option order will go to Jamaica Yard for the E, F and R. With this, all of the R160B's from Jamaica will be displaced to Coney Island for the B, N and W. With the B running a mixed fleet of R160B’s and R211’s, the R68s on the B will be displaced to the N/W while R68A’s on the B will be displaced onto the Q to retire the remaining R46's. Any remaining R160B’s that were displaced from Jamaica to Coney Island will be assigned to the N/W because they switch at Ditmars Blvd and it’s hard to do that with the R68/A’s. Bringing the fact that if the Q does get rerouted over 6th Avenue, it most likely won’t get CBTC until around the early 2030s and by then the R268s will arrive and replace the R68/A’s. The second possiblity is that all of the cars go to Queens Blvd and to displace some R160Bs to the A/C for spare units and extra service.
Option order 2: This option order will contain around 437 cars in both 4 and 5 car sets. the 4 cars sets will go to the M, J and Z to expand their fleet for cars. With that some of the R179s from ENY will move to Jamaica or Coney Island for G service (depends on what yard the G is assigned to). The 5 car sets will go to Coney Island for the N/W because of Ditmars Blvd switching and expanding the fleet. Some of the R68s from the N/W will be moved to the Q.
Final Predications:
A/C: R179's and R211's
The A/C can share all of their cars
B: R160B's and R211's
D: R211's
E/F/R: R160A-2's and R211's
G: R179's
J/Z: R160A-1's, R179's, R211's
L: R143's, R160A-1's
M: R160A-1's, (Occasional R211 Pop ups)
N/W: R68's, R160B's, R211's
Q: R68's, R68A's (Occasional R211 pop ups)
Franklin Av Shuttle: R68's
Rockaway Shuttle: R211's
With these assignments high ridership lines like the E/F/R can get R211's because they will have the most capacity in the system. The G should get 8 car R179's from 207th St because we can extend G trains from 5 to 8 cars. It would also make sense for Coney Island to get a small batch of R211's because remember, those lines always switch at Ditmars Blvd, and its not easy to do that with the R68/A's. With that, some of the N/W's R68/A's can be pushed out to the Q because the Q will need extra units once SAS Phase 2 opens.
@@CR1Creative Remember before the Jamaica/Coney Island rolling stock swap in 2019-2020, G trains were based out of Coney Island yard and I am just saying "whatever yard the G is assigned to" because the G may be reassigned to CIY.
@R68aQtrain There's very little reason to reassign the G back to Coney Island.
1) The 460 base order subway cars will go to Pitkin. No R179’s will be displaced from the A or C since they're the most reliable subway cars in the city. The remaining 75 cars are for the Staten Island Railway.
2) The 1st option order is more likely to go to Concourse and Coney Island Yards for D and B service, respectively. Since Concourse only maintains cars for the D, it doesn't need 2 NTT's(let alone 3, as mentioned in the video) This is because 6th Avenue is getting CBTC. The R68's from Concourse Yard will be transferred to CIY to replace that yard’s R46's.
3) The 2nd option order wasn't placed yet, so I won't say much about this one. However, if the 4 car sets are built, I suggest sending them to 207th Street Yard to increase service on the C line.
Regarding Jamaica Yard, it has more than enough CBTC-equipped R160'sfor the E, F, G, and R. Therefore, the probability of R211's going there is very, very low. It makes no sense to do two fleet swaps when only one is necessary.
@@CR1Creativewhen R211’s go to ENY M trains are getting displaced R160’s from the J and Z.
@@JeremiahCI99
The 32 4-car R211's are likely going to be headed to East New York for the M line once all 4-car sets are built
The (4-car) R179's will be displaced to East New York for the J/Z lines pushing out 56 R143's to the L line for service increase which is more than enough so the J/Z and L lines won't need the 4-car R211's this will make all C trains full length at 10-cars each
@@CR1Creative they’re not the MTA only wants R160’s in Queens Blvd not mixed fleets they’re sending these R211’s to the J & Z
This might me a bit long but this is what I know about the potential R211 assignments:
- I recently learned there is a chance that both Option Orders could be open-gangway trains.
- If Jamaica does receive R21's, they will likely be for (E)(F)(R) service
- Under that proposal, the (G)(M)(R) lines will retain their R160's
- If the (E) (F)(R) does receive R211's, those R160's is more than enough to cover (B) and (D) service
- Should Coney Island get their NTT's (R160's) back, they will keep them for (Q) service
- The proposed 4-car R211's will likely go to the (L) line.
Everything is preliminary and I recognize that plans can change.
That could be good news for the Queens Blvd Line. I hear the trains there can get crowded.
@@TheRailLeaguer Queens Boulevard has a high volume of traffic and crowding. It is why it was urgent for them to retrofit Queens Boulevard for CBTC. For the sake of assigning the R211's to the fewest possible yards, I'll give Jamaica the entire batch of 5-car Option Order II units and a large amount of Option Order I cars. In turn, they can give up their R160's for the (B)(D)(Q) lines.
@@BrIaNMeRcY1022 And this means that the E and F would be 100% R211, right?
Also, I did look into having the R211 cars assigned to the fewest possible yards as well. In fact, I had all 640 Option 1 cars assigned to Jamaica Yard. I think I had the second option at Coney Island Yard for some reason.
@@TheRailLeaguer That would be correct. You can't send all of the Option Order I cars to Jamaica. 207th/Pitkin would need more R211's to act as spare units. I'll just wait and see as the years progress. The second they deploy 60-foot trains back on the (B) and (D), dwell times would decrease significantly.
@@BrIaNMeRcY1022 Okay, and also, is the CBTC system installed on the R211 compatible with the system used for the Canarsie Line? You did mention that the 4-car R211s are likely to go to the L route.
As long as the R46’s start hitting the scrap heap I’ll be happy with whatever gets assigned to the Broadway line be it the R68 or any NTT.
The r211 probably go on the A and C because of the CBTC On The 8th avenue line
99.99999% chance
Yup and that is part of the base order. It is also going to the Rockaway Shuttle and Staten Island Railway. The A and C has all of 3 categories which has Aging of Cars, CBTC, and High Ridership.
These are only planned to replace the R44 and R46. The newer, but still old R68 and R68A are rumored to be replaced by the upcoming R268, but not before the R62 and R62A are replaced by the R262 for the IRT lines, which use slightly narrower trains. After the R44, R46, R62, R62A, R68 and R68A are all replaced, manual announcements from the conductor will be fully eliminated and replaced by automated announcements. The only issue related to platforms and train lengths not yet mentioned by the MTA is what will be done with the Franklin Ave Line. Assuming the future R268 will replace the R68, the former will be too long to fit on the platforms unless they get extended. The MTA could either extend the existing platforms to allow 4-car trains to accommodate them or they could relocate the line underground, rebuild all platforms as full-length ones and merge it with the Crosstown Line, thus not only eliminating the shuttle but putting all would-be revenue tracks at Prospect Park to proper use, since the Franklin Line is a continuation of the Brighton Line’s local tracks but can’t provide through-services since the former’s platforms are too short whereas the express tracks continue towards the Manhattan Bridge.
I feel like the R211 should run on the N and D and B because the N and D at 36-4 Ave to Atlantic Barclays center on the D N and R train like I get on one of those stations and the trains are so full on rush our and they only got 8 Cars and the B and D trains in 6 Ave is crowded always and run like every 5-7 minutes for each one and the R160s F and M they have cbct and run at every 2-5 mins
The A C S and SIR have the Base Order to receive R211s since they have 3 of 3. Your opinions on the option 1 order. For the D, yes it would have R211A but for the N no because N/W and Q don't have enough high ridership and CBTC on Broadway and Astoria aren't coming anytime soon. D will have R211s since they have High Ridership and Aging of cars. E/F/R are the possible to have R211s since they have CBTC and High RIdership. R160s will go to the B and Q and some for the N/W. R68/A's will proceed to the N/W and Q to punch out R46's they have in there CIY.
Here’s my prediction! R211 will be on the (A) (B) (C) (D) (E) (F) (R) With that the R42 at Pitkin can retire. R160 5 car sets can be put on the (G) to expand the fleet (I’m hoping for 10 car trains). Then the rest of the R160 cars from can be moved to coney which will use R160 and R68. R179 4 car sets from the (C) can be put on the (SR) as well as the (J) and (Z) expanding their fleet. Five car R179 from the (A) can be placed on the (B) and (C).
I think the R68s should get the same treatment that the R46s got with the roll signs replaced with screens
The MTA attempted that a few years ago, but the trial failed.
My pet peeve on NTT cars is that they're not ordering ENOUGH to allow for service expansion and other amenities.
In a perfect world, rather than ordering 212 R143 NTT cars, we would've ordered 320 train cars, providing enough service for the (L) train and enabling the CBTC system to go online sooner.
For the R160's, instead of 1662 cars, we should've ordered 2000 cars, subdivided into a base order and two option orders. This order to replace the R32-R42 cars in one shot, would've easily been able to accommodate for service changes like the change in the (M) route and easily increase service on other lines.
This order would've come with some open gangway trains. The R179 order, rather than be a small order of around 300 cars, should've been another large order of about 1725 cars, again broken down into a base order and two option orders, replacing all of the R43 and R46 cars in a single go. All cars in this order would have open gangways, displacing (5-car) R160's to the (B), (D) and some on the (Q) to replace some R68/A cars.
Finally the R211 order could've been 800 cars to fully upgrade the (N), (Q), (W) and Franklin Aveune Shuttle replacing the remaining R68/A cars and to enable CBTC compatibility on the Astoria line between Ditmars Blvd and 57th Street-7th Avenue elimanting the signane confusion on alot of those trains. Some of the cars in this order would come with open gangway trains. By now the entire system would've been all NTT trains, which is a big boon for ridership.
@@CR1Creative I dont agree with you last claim that mystic transit JeremiahC99 and Brianmercy are trustworthy reliable sources because they are railfans not people that actually work for the MTA. But other than that you are right about the R211s
The Concourse really needs NTTs
Either Displaced R160B or R211s. R68 from concourse will be going to CIY for the N Q and W. B and D will get NTT's when it is 2025.
WOO BABY STATEN ISLAND IS GETTING R211S!
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I share in your excitement for the deployment of the R211s for regular service. I think the 8th Av Line may get the bulk of the new fleet because of the age and declining performance of the R46s (A/C); also increasing the frequency of the A & C running along the Central Park corridor, through 8th Avenue and into Fulton.
The 8th Avenue Line is first up, with Queens Blvd getting much of the two option orders. East New York Yard could get the final 32 cars in the 437 car option 2 order.
@Dagamez DM They probably think the overcrowding is exaggerated. I’m still seeing a fair share of overcrowded trains not just on Queens Blvd but also on the other lines like the 8th Avenue.
@@TheRailLeaguer which lines will the r211As hit passenger service in December of this year
I had an earlier response but I deleted it. Why? The math changes if All R179's are pushed out of the (A) and (C), though this would only be possible with the second option order. With the (A), (C), (E) and (F) being 100% R211's, the (A) and (C) get up to 6 more trains for frequency boosts, but the (E), (F), and (R) do not get any due to infrastructure constraints (primarily low-capacity terminals); therefore a ton of R160's and R179's are pushed to Coney Island, enough to allow the (Q) to run R160's (and let the G return to Coney Island).
I still don't like this though, because about half of all R68[A]'s would just sit unused. 33 [out of what would be 77 but currently 68] trains are used for the (N) and (W), so yeah, there won't be leftover R160's as BrianMercy is saying, but leftover R68[A]'s. And the 60th Street tubes seem unable to do better than 24 TPH, so I don't expect that 33 figure to increase at all unless MTA finally wants to go forward with deinterlining -- which I doubt because the MTA's new priorities indicate going in the opposite direction.
In my calculations below, the only service boost I accounted for, besides the (A) and (C) (simply because there are R211's for it whereas the (E) and (F) cannot run additional trains), is the (G) train. Because the (G) is a shorter line that doesn't use that many cars to begin with and only interlines with one other train, I made it match (F) frequencies, where according to schedules, it consistently maxes out at 12 trains per hour, or every 5 minutes on average. The catch is that there are no more NTT's to make the (G) 10 cars, but capacity should still improve by 38%, and there should be fewer delays caused by merging (late trains would still cause problems but at least conflicts are no longer built into schedules).
The result is that there are 17 extra NTT trains for spares and B/D/Q service boosts at Coney Island Yard. If the (Q) didn't use any NTT's, that number would be 39.
-A/C and Rockaway Park Shuttle (Pitkin+207): 740 R211's (up from 680 in 5-car equivalents; only =630 needed to run the (C) every 5 minutes and both (A) branches and shuttle every 10)
-E/F/R (Jamaica): 760 R211's, 355 R160's
(1115 total with 40 spares each, down from 1290)
-D (Concourse): 335 R160's
-B/Q/G (Coney Island): 730 R160's/R179's, of which 560 would be in service (MTA may want to do something about Jamaica Yard being over capacity, which is why I have the (G) back here, and the reduction above)
-N/W (Coney Island): 416 R68's + 200 R68A's, of which ... 264 would be in service. Yes, that's 352 spares, or 44 trains...
-J/Z: 188 R179's, 40 Borrowed R160A-1's (23+4 trains; (J/Z) currently use 20 during AM rush hours)
-L: 212 R143's, 64 R160A-1's (34 trains; (L) currently uses 24)
-M: 268 R160A-1's, 32 R211's (33+4 trains; (M) currently uses 24)
R160s will be proceeding to the B and D lines if the R211 was placed in Jamaica and assigned to E/F/R.
My thoughts
The first order of uR211s are definitely going to the A/C trains thats a guarantee.
People are saying that the R211s should also go to the N/Q/W trains well I could see why people are saying this. It cause they have R46s. However I believe that it’s more likely that the E/F/R trains will receive the R211s and the R160s will return to the N/Q/W trains.
People might call the swaps dumb and unnecessary but it would actually be justified reason. A subway line having the oldest train car fleet doesn’t immediately guarantee that they will receive the newest train car fleet right away.
What’s determines the train car fleet assignments.
CBTC
Crowding
What fleet in the worst condition.
The R46s are getting old yes. But see the MTA will likely want the newest train car fleet operating on Queens Blvd right away to allow for the Queens Blvd CBTC system to be more effective. The N/Q/W are crowded but that’s nothing compared to the E/F/R trains.
Queens blvd is extremely busy especially during rush hours so the Queens Blvd line will need all of the extra capacity the R211s will offer. And if the MTA approves of the open gangway train car, they will definitely go to the most overcrowded train routes with are the A E and F trains. Hence forth the second order of R211s At least 50%-70% of the R160s currently operating the Queens Blvd line will be reassigned I personally believe that the Siemens sets will be the first few R160s to leave queens blvd.
But don’t be sad N/Q/W train riders. Cause the displaced R160s will then return to the Coney Island yard to replace the R46s heck in fact there might be enough R160s to replace the R68s R68As and operate on the B/D trains.
If they approve of a special 4 car R211 order. Will certainly go the L train and while the displaced R143s and R160s get reassigned to the G train. (L) will be needing extra trains to run more service as they are pretty packed and would definitely benefit from the wider doors and maybe open gangway.
The B/D train will likely get the displaced R179s from the A/C trains.
The M and J/Z trains are extremely unlikely to receive the R211s
Further more the 5 car sets R160s of the G train can be combined into 10 cars sets and go to the N/W/Q trains
I say there is a high probability of R211's going to Jamaica yard because QBL has a pretty high ridership and could benefit from the wider doors and open gangway.
Rockway shuttle and SIR R211s definitely
Franklin Avenue shuttle Either R160 or R211
But the R46s R68s and R68As will all be retired farewell you served us well but we need NTT 100%
Why so eager to get rid of the R68s they isn’t even anything wrong with them aren’t shitty like the R46
@@gabepl2986 no no no. It’s not like I hate them. We need newer cars. They are becoming more expensive to maintenance. We need CBTC and since the R68s can’t provide that; they gotta go. The extra R211 order should be enough to retire the R68s
@@Amiri_Francis The plan for the R211s is not to retire the R68/As (though if the R179 order was larger, they would). Rather, they plan on using that 437 car Option 2 order to increase the fleet size.
Now listen I’m not saying I hate the R68s I’m saying that with the plan expand CBTC the R68s don’t really have anywhere to go. But I guess they are still pretty young. So ok. I just don’t want a repeat of the car shortage that happened when the R44s were forced to retire and they wasn’t enough R32s R42s or even new R160s to fill in the void the R44s leaved
@@Amiri_Francis Broadway is where the R68s would be going considering that Astoria CBTC is a long ways away from being close to completion. Common sense and logical assignments would see the base order R211s to 8th Avenue and options to Queens Blvd and 6th Avenue, the latter to accommodate the all to familiar reroutes and swaps during the routine weekend work (I.e, A via Rutgers).
i strongly agree with the prediction. Keep in mind that Concourse yard can only handle one fleet. Most likely, Concourse will get the r211A's or the r160's from Jamaica. All the open gangway trains should go to Jamaica, since it serves the lines that have the highest ridership.
That won’t be happening R160’s were permanently swapped to Jamaica R211’s will be going to the A,B,C,D lines.
R160's are permanently on Jamaica. But the E will still recieve at least 4 -10 car sets during the summer, due to its high ridership. The B and D unfortunately can't get them, and won't until CBTC is installed, to prioritize lines that already have CBTC or are in the process of getting it will recieve the NTT's while all extra r68s will be split between Broadway and Concourse lines and r46s will run along those lines until their retirement, and them the D and B will recieve r160's if nessecery. But Concourse will get r211's by 2030, hopefully.
@@ranabhaipersaud8886 QBL is already crowded as it is it is not getting R211’s I repeat it is not getting R211’s they’re doing perfect with R160’s. R211’s will go on lines currently using OTT.
@Dagamez DM the base order of r211's will go to the A, C,. Keep in mind that the B, D will also need NTT's once 8th Avenue CBTC is complete. B, D's are often rerouted through 8th Avenue and will most likely be rerouted through 8th Avenue when work on 6th Avenue CBTC begins. R68's won't be able to run on 8th Avenue or 6th Avenue once CBTC is installed on both lines. By the time 8th Avenue CBTC is done all r211's will be delivered.
My guess is that they will replace the R46s where they run now, A/C/N/Q/W, and when they are done with those start removing the R68s from the B/D and wherever the residual cars are. They had the R160 on the N/Q/W for years before they pulled them for QB CBTC and now they'll put the new cars back in place. 6th Ave isn't getting CBTC anytime soon and the last of the R211s will be ready by then. The B is a part time line and they won't put the newest cars on it, and only on the W because is shares the fleet with the N and they essentially operate as one line. They won't transfer the cars around if the plans are already in place to replace them.
My opinion the N and Q lines should get the R211 Because they not using the R160s and the R46 Is getting old
What about Central Park West?
The latest information I heard, they want every single IND line to be 100% NTT. The TA wants to be flexible with 8th Avenue CBTC. Allowing NTT's to be assigned to the (B) and (D) allows that flexibility to transpire. You aren't going to see NTT's again on the (N) and (W) for another 10-15 years. Should Coney Island receive it's NTT's back, they are strictly for the (Q) line.
@@BrIaNMeRcY1022 ^
The Q should receive either R211s or R160Bs from Jamaica, that way they could get rerouted onto 6th Av during gos without any trouble
@@JellyMations You have a better chance of seeing the R160's on the (Q) than the R211's. As the MTA wants the entire IND to be 100% NTT.
Something else that people don't realize is that if 8 car R179's went to Jamaica for the G, and R211's went there for the E, F and R, the maintenance staff would need training on those cars, which means more money going to the MTA. R211 assignments will most likely be based on CBTC installations, not the transit community's demands.
Edit: This also applies to transferring R160's to Concourse. If you want to examine QBL overcrowding, you need to go there during AM peak and observe.
It seems that you don't understand that I planned these assignments based on CBTC Installations, along with thinking about the crowding on each of the lines.
@@MysticTransit Oh I understand. It just seems illogical. If we said, "Ok, every subway line that's overcrowded should get R211's", they would go to all of the lines, including the numbered ones.
Remember that they're doing 8th Avenue Line CBTC from 59th Street to Jay Street and they also need to do Astoria Line CBTC from Ditmars Blvd to 57th Street to boost capacity. Therefore, the logical assignments are as follows:
1) Pitkin yard for the (A)
2) 207th Street Yard for the (C)
3) Coney Island for the (B), (N) and (W), as well as an occasional Q line trip.
4) Concourse for the (D)
@@clbtransit4798 Swap out number 3 for the E, F and R and the assignments are a match made in heaven, especially as Broadway is in no way in line for new NTT cars until the R68/As are up for retirement.
Funny thing is that my original predictions had this:
(A)/(S) 440 cars
(E): 260 cars
(D): 380 cars
(B): 405 cars
(J/Z), (L), (M): 32 cars.
Also, the AM rush loads perfectly justify the R211s going there. Sure not the base order but rather the option orders. With the two option orders you have an extra 597 cars (the 437 options plus another 160 cars). Where are you going to put them?
@@TheRailLeaguer The MTA might do Astoria line CBTC. Download the 2020-2024 Capital Plan and scroll down to page 23. For that, they would go to Coney Island for the N and W. Furthermore, the B is based out of CIY.
If they put R211's in Jamaica, some R160's would need to leave and go to Concourse and Coney Island yards. With that, the R160 fleet would be split among 3 yards. What's the point in doing that after they spent so much energy and time getting them into Jamaica?
And like the video says, it makes no sense to put CBTC equipped trains on lines that don't have it. The D doesn't have CBTC yet, and neither do the CIY subway lines.
Edit: Extra subway cars can be used to increase service on the A, B, C, D, N, and Q
I cant wait, I hope the Q becomes 100% R68/R68A
Yes it will in 2025. But I feel that the Q would get some NTT's as well.
I just hope they complete the entire order of r211s
So personally my theory is that the first 211s will go to Pitkin/207 to push the 46s on the A/C to Coney Island to retire the worst performing 46s that are there now on the N/Q/W.
Then the next step would be to make the B/D have NTTs. 8th Ave is obviously getting CBTC next, and if the (D)eltas and (B)ravos still have their 68/68As, they won’t be able to travel over 8th Ave in an event of an emergency, so they need to have CBTC equipped trains.
So the only way for NTTs to find their way to the Bravo/Delta line is that when the 211s come in, they’ll give them to Jamaica next to give to the E/F lines and Jamaica will then push the 160s from the E/F to Concourse (D)/Coney Island (B) which in turn will push their 68/68A to the N/Q/W to retire the remaining of the 46s.
In regards to the option orders, I did the math already, and If the 211s have no issues, and all the option orders are exercised, there would be enough 211s to obviously retire all the 46s but also cut into the 68/68A and leave approx 200 68s remaining. Personally I hope the 68As get retired first because they’re a nightmare to operate.
Additionally, when the 211s come in, I would like them to replace the 8-car 179s on the C to make the C 100% 10-car and those 179s will be pushed to the J/Z which will then push their 8-car 160s to the G to make them 8 cars to increase capacity.
And the 211 option orders only calls for 4 full sets of 8 car 211s, which I would strongly assume would go to the L and Push some of the 160s that are on the L to the G.
There are no immediate plans to replace the R68/As. Replacement cars for this particular fleet will be funded in the next program.
There will also only be 32 4-car sets in that 437 car option order. A large portion of this order will be 5-car units.
@@MTA_9929 that would be nice…
We're getting Closer to it's First Revenue Run.
Yep! I'm excited to see them running.
The doors haven’t been tested yet.
It has.
First, we need to do the burn in testing!
@@TBF_1J emi testing is currently going on,next is brakes testing though out the system and then noise and vibration testing,deep snow testing,test to see if will stop at the correct car marker.
If the R46 Retire the N Q W will run with R68s?
yes.
Yea
If the Astoria Line gets CBTC, the R68/A's will only be allowed to run on the Q
Yes, and when Astoria CBTC comes soon in the 2030s. The R268's will be on the N/Q/W.
@@euromatrixkung Astoria cbtc isn’t even happening anytime soon
I agree with this video and I can't wait to see these R211s in service
I actually think the R211 assignments are gonna be more straightforward.
The base order of 460 cars will go to the A/C and Rockaway Park Shuttle to push out their R46s. This would allow the A/C to be 100% NTT for 8 Avenue CBTC, and Fulton Street CBTC later on. The C can continue using its 8-car R179s, as it uses different-length trains now. The R46s will probably go to the N Q W so that their R46s can be retired first, as they perform worse.
Then for the first option order of 640 cars, there are two possibilities. If the B changes to Concourse Yard, then all 640 cars would probably go there and make the B/D 100% R211. Then all the R68/R68A on those lines would go to the N Q W, retiring their R46s. If the B stays at Coney Island Yard, about 335 R211s would go to Concourse for the D, pushing its R68s to Coney Island Yard for the B N Q W. The remaining 305 R211s would go to Coney Island Yard for the B N Q W as well. I would say that the B can be mostly R211s with some R68/R68A, the N/W can be mostly R68/R68A with some R211s for Ditmars Blvd switching, and the Q can be 100% R68/R68A with occasional R211 pop-ups. 6 Avenue will likely get CBTC in the future, but it's not officially confirmed as of now, so the B can still use a few R68/R68A until their replacement model arrives.
Finally for the second option order, there will be 405 cars in 5-car sets and 32 cars in 4-car sets. The 4-car sets will probably go to the J/Z, and maybe the M if they get CBTC. There would only be four 8-car trains formed with 32 cars, so no R160s or R179s there would go to the G. The G can continue using 5-car R160s from Jamaica Yard. For the 405 cars configured in 5-car sets, there's no confirmation of where they would go for now. For Jamaica, I'd say they only have a 5% chance of getting R211s, as they're out of space and to increase E F G R service with CBTC, they can just use more R160s they have.
Jamaica has a larger chance of getting the R211 option orders. The wider doors and larger capacity make it the obvious no brainer. With this, the R160s would be pushed out to other yards, like Concourse and Coney Island yards, which both operate routes that are at lower capacity. It really makes no sense to assign the higher capacity cars onto lower volume routes while constantly overcrowded routes with no room to add additional trains are stuck with train cars with lower capacity.
@@TheRailLeaguer well their main goal is to retire the R46s right now with the R211s. R160s are definitely not going back to Coney for the N Q W. They'll definitely continue showing up as loans, but 0% chance of a permanent transfer back. The MTA spent alot of time and money installing CBTC in the R160s so that they can specifically run on the E F G R for Queens Blvd, Culver, and 8 Avenue CBTC. Therefore, they'll all be staying in Jamaica now. Those four lines are running just fine with them too, so they don't really need R211s. Also, the option order R211s are actually not confirmed to be getting CBTC right now. Therefore, that makes them more likely to go to Concourse and Coney for the B D N Q W lines
@@subwayfan200 Just because Jamaica Yard is current 100% R160 DOES NOT mean that they must stay 100% R160. In all actuality, the Queens Blvd CBTC is designed to accept any CBTC equipped railcar in revenue service except for the R143 and 64 R160s, so any train car could be operating there.
Broadway is also not on the list for CBTC so factory fresh cars will be going to lines that have or are getting CBTC.
Jamaica is also 100% in the list for R211 cars. Hell it makes perfect sense. High ridership + crowded trains + the R211 wider doors + open gangway + CBTC on that line = a match made in heaven.
@@TheRailLeaguer I didn't say Jamaica has to stay 100% R160s. I was saying that because they have CBTC installed in them now, that means they'll all most likely be staying there. Jamaica can still get a few R211s from option 2 to increase their spare and for crowding. I didn't say that's a 0% chance. Their main goal with the R211s, is retiring the R46s. Plus, the E F G R are all doing fine with their R160s right now. If they were to go back to Coney for the N Q W, that would've been a big waste of time and money in my opinion
@@subwayfan200 I’m pretty sure that Jamaica getting R211’s won’t largely increase the spares. Rather, this move is going to move out several R160s onto lower volume lines (I really don’t see any N trains operating at capacity). Not all of the R160s are staying at Jamaica Yard, and pretty much a significant number of them are going to leave. That is how everybody is seeing it, as ridership in Eastern Queens continues to grow.
At the end of the day, Jamaica is getting a piece of the entire order. One prediction I’ve noticed is that that Jamaica could be getting 405 cars, all from the Option 2 order of 437 cars. After all, why assign high capacity cars to lower volume lines when these same cars can be assigned to the high ridership lines to give these people a little more breathing room?
Off topic when the lines get the new signaling system, will the museum trains get the necessary equipment to operate on those lines, or will they no longer be used for fan trips?
They won't get new equipment. I think they will still be able to operate with the traditional wayside signaling.
OH WOW SO R46 SUBWAY TRAIN CARS We’re Be Removed From The N,Q,W Train So THIS WAY THE N,Q,W Train Will BE GETTING THE R68A SUBWAY CARS THAT MATCH THE R68A B Train And R68 D Train Also Too I JUST CAN WAIT TILL WE SEE ITS VERY SOON AS POSSIBLE 🚅👏⛱🚞🚢..
The only problem is that only 535 R211s are being delivered, and over 700 R46s are still running. That leaves about 120 R46s.
That’s only the base order. There’s also two more option orders: one for 640 cars and the other for 437 cars. This will help retire the R46 cars and expand the fleet.
The cars will be assigned to lines getting CBTC, like 8th Avenue, Queens Blvd, 6th Avenue, etc.
@@TheRailLeaguer no dum dum
@@karinathomas6506 What do you mean?
N line Broadway
You right may G lines will get R211 or they keep R160s
They should get 8-car R179s from the C when they get equipped with CBTC
The G line is staying at Jamaica Yard PERMENANTALY! R160s are running on the G line and if R211s went to Jamaica for the E/F/R then the G can have some R211.
I really don’t know why there are a small amount of people on this comment section who are flipped off about the prospect of R211s going to the Queens Blvd Line? Are you all okay? Don’t you know that the E and F have always been on the books for the option order R211s? What is wrong with the higher capacity cars (R211) going on the higher capacity lines (like the E or F).
R211’s will not be going to Jamaica they will be going to lines that use R46/R68 type trains
For everyone replying, Queens Blvd is a line with high ridership, behind the Canarsie and Flushing Line. Therefore it would make more sense for some R211s out of the option order to go to Jamaica Yard.
Fleet assignments are based on CBTC installations and fleet age to some extent, with CBTC taking priority. A line like the 8th Avenue A and C trains do have old cars and are in the process of getting CBTC. Therefore, it would be beneficial to get R211 cars. In contrast, you have lines like the Broadway N/W and Q that are using old cars, but are NOT earmarked for CBTC installation. Therefore, it would be unwise to send R211s over to all of these lines.
Now you have the open gangway trains. A big increase in space compared to the R160, a third criteria has been added: high ridership. As mentioned before, Queens Blvd has high ridership and crowding on the E and F routes is prominent. Given this, the QBL already has CBTC and these two lines have high ridership, so it would make sense to have R211s go over there, with the R160 cars offloaded onto lower volume lines. It really makes zero sense for train cars of higher capacity to be assigned with lower ridership volumes while high ridership lines get stuck with lower capacity cars. It really doesn’t match. By doing the assignments in the way I mentioned, with the R211s also considered for the E and F, things become more efficient.
Remember, just because the R211s are replacing the R46 cars DOES not mean that they only have to go to lines with these cars. It is definitely okay to assign these cars to lines that don’t even have the old cars like Jamaica and off load the cars from said yard to the yards with older cars.
In fact, there has also been some speculation on having the R211s assigned to Jamaica Yard. From BrianMercy's knowledge:
This might me a bit long but this is what I know about the potential R211 assignments:
- I recently learned there is a chance that both Option Orders could be open-gangway trains.
- If Jamaica does receive R211's, they will likely be for (E)(F)(R) service
- Under that proposal, the (G)(M)(R) lines will retain their R160's
- If the (E) (F)(R) does receive R211's, those R160's is more than enough to cover (B) and (D) service
- Should Coney Island get their NTT's (R160's) back, they will keep them for (Q) service
- The proposed 4-car R211's will likely go to the (L) line.
@Mr. Foamer Thanks. That’s probably how the MTA would look to assign the new cars.
@Mr. Foamer Don’t worry about Vincent Craig. He’s talking about a different Jeremiah.
so im assuming the J's least used station is 111th st. either that or its 104 (my home line)
I'd wager it's Cypress Hills 😛
It is 111 St. You can see that at the end of my last Least Used Stations video.
@@MysticTransit aii. so isnt the Z's least used diffrent?
@@MysticTransit Thanks! Well dang, that came as a surprise. 😅
I disagree with u J M Z lines they going to remain with the R160s their not getting R211 when they already have R160s and R179s
Just because they already have R160 and R179s does not mean that they are in line for new cars As far as I’m concerned, they could get the 32 R211 cars in the option 2 for service expansion.
@@TheRailLeaguer no because r160s and 179s already have cbtc
@@keeganjohnson8648 But that doesn’t mean that it’s enough for current and future service needs. The R211 car order includes up to 597 cars for fleet expansion, which means that service is going to be expanded.
And as far as I’m concerned the Eastern Division is short. The R211 order would mean that another 92 R179s would be transferred and they could be getting 32 R211s, bringing up the total fleet assigned to the division to 804 cars. This could be enough to expand service on the J/Z, L, and M.
@@keeganjohnson8648 No the Nassau line dont HAVE CBTC For R179's and R160's
I think for maintenance simplicity best would be ENYD get all 4 car r179 sets from A/C line for nassau line. A/C will be 5 car sets of r169 r211. QBL get all r160 as all equipment are cbtc ready, while r211 go to lines getting fitted with cbtc now so both infrastructure and rolling stock will be cbtc ready around same time.
Notice that all B division trains are sent to the (C) when they are close to being retired
Why not? It's just a lcl (A), and runs like 5 tph.
Lol
Everytime 😂
I'm not sure if this is 100% true but in early to mid 2030's, the MTA might order about 732 R268's for the N, Q, W and Franklin Avenue Shuttle (Probably the T if it goes to CI Yard) to replace all remaining R68/A's possibly making the MTA fleet all NTT. If this happens, It would be a shame to see the last Pre-1999 trains kiss goodbye. But hey, the MTA has a giant future ahead of them!
Probably true because the After the B D Get NTTs The N Q W is the only r68 and Franklin Avenue Shuttle they will be the only line will old Tech
@Dagamez DM no need to retire the car that are running good service
@Dagamez DM okay
@@josejeremyortiz9635 hah. The R68’s are also always breaking down on Broadway. Service has decreased exponentially ever since the OTT’s have been pushed to The N/Q/W. The R268’s will indeed replace the n/q/w’s R68’s, and these lines will be fully R268.
@@storm1602 yes true but even if the r68 break down right now they Still needed for to the N Q W FS and if they retire this cars early then car shortages come back mta dont want that and the N Q W cant can borrwing r160 from Jamaica because they needed these cars for QBL CBTC
The R211 Car Assignments should be straightforward
Base order (440 cars)
All 440 subway cars in this order would be assigned directly to Pitkin Yard. This allows 310 cars for the (A) and 130 cars for the (C), and also a direct replacement of the 356 R46 cars assigned to the Pitkin Yard. Meanwhile it does bring me issues of trains of the same type in different lengths operating in different lengths operating on the same line, though an option would be to rotate a portion of the R211's and the (5-car) R179's Between the (A) and (C). That'll leave 75 R211S for Staten Island Railway and the 20 R211T Pilot trains with open gangways those are a bit of a tossup; But The 20 R211T Pilot trains would likely be assigned to Pitkin Yard for the (A) line only to increase the spare factor
Option order 1 (640 cars)
130 cars in this option order would go to Pitkin/207th Yard for the (C) and RP(S) to increase the spare factor, this will push out the 92 (4-car) R179's to East New York for the (J/Z) making All (C) trains full length at 10 cars each. The other 510 cars will go to Jamaica for the (E) and (F) Since Queens Boulevard is the Busiest corridor in the B Division, the R211's design is total highest capacity and wider doors which reduce dwell times are ideal for those lines. 275 R160's will be moved over to Concourse Yard for (D) service, indirectly replacing a portion of the 396 R46 cars by sending all 268 R68's over to Coney Island Yard for the Broadway Line (N/W) which are not getting CBTC Anytime soon.
Option order 2 405 (5-car units)
All (5-car sets) will be assigned to Jamaica Yard for the (E) and (F), No surprise there since the line is already at capacity, and a 10% capacity increase from the open gangways can make all the difference in crowding on the trains. Seriously, why have the most crowded lines in the B Division have zero open gangway trains when other lines are not routinely crowded? Literally makes zero sense. All of the R211's would make up entirely of the (E) and (F) lines.
As a result of all of this, All 275 R160's Both Alstom and Siemens Sets will get displaced over to Coney Island for (B) service and 112 R68/A's will be moved to the (N)/(W), Meanwhile 220 R160's will be displaced to CI Yard for the (Q), Yes the (Q) has to be 100% NTT's Just in case if the (Q) has to be Re-routed via the 6th Avenue Line and the SAS Phase 2 would see a huge volume of riders, while the Leftover R160's will be deployed to the (N)/(W); With that All remaining 236 R68's would be retired early as they are not needed. Meanwhile the Remaining 490 Siemens R160's at Jamaica, 65 of them to make All (G) trains full length at 10 cars each and service expansion for both the (G) and (R) lines. With the (4-car) R179's displaced over to East New York (and by extension, Canarsie and Fresh Pond Yards). No cars would be moved out of there as a result, resulting in more trains available for both the (J/Z) to reduce the need for R143 fleet rotations on the (L). The move of the (G) back to Jamaica Yard, which took me by surprise, has changed things and new assignments will be needed
Option order 2 32 (4-car units)
All 32 (4-car sets) would be placed in the Eastern Division to increase the spare factor; 92 R179's coming from the (C) would also provide service expansion pushing out the 56 R143's to the (L) line for service increase, allowing them to keep more of their R143 and R160 cars already configured for the unique CBTC system used there of which is more than enough so they don't need new trains
The Final assignments would've been:
(A): 310 R211's, 65 R179's, 20 R211T's
(B): 275 R160's (Both A and B sets)
(C): 130 R211's, 110 R211A's, 65 R179's
(D): 275 R160's (A sets only)
(E): 200 R211A's, 205 R211T's
(F): 310 R211A's, 200 R211T's
(G): 180 R160's (B sets only)
(J/Z): 188 R179's, 56 R160A-1's
(L): 212 R143's, 96 R160A-1's
(M): 220 R160A-1's, 32 R211's
(N/W): 380 R68/A's, 30 R160's
(Both A and B sets)
(Q): 220 R160's (Both A and B sets)
(R): 310 R160's (B sets only)
Rockaway Park (S): 20 R211A's
Hello everyone sorry to bother you with drama Jeremiah claims the E & F train are crowded when he does not even take those lines or have any business on the QBL he resides by Coney Island and is a daly N train rider every line is busy during rush hour not just the E & F and 6th Ave is extremely busy that’s why 6th Ave is getting CBTC and the B & D are getting R211’s to deal with the overcrowding on 6th Ave & in reality the QBL is empty for most of rush hour and after rush hour and that line is already using 100% CBTC equipped R160 equipment and he think the MTA will swap NTT for NTT when in fact they won’t because the R160’s are doing an excellent job at Jamaica the dude is brain dead and just wants to see unnecessary fleet swap well guess what Jack that is not gonna happen.
B train has low ridership while the D has high ridership. The D is either getting R160 or R211. The MTA hasn’t made the award contract about cbtc on 6 av yet. 6 av is in the 2020-2024 capital program.
Is it just me or did the mat copy the new tube for London with the led doors lights and the front of the train
False. All false.
How would you know?
The 4 car dents could also be the rockaway shuttle
5:46 what’s that on the 44? Is it like a cow catcher?
Here's the most logical R211 car assignments:
Base Order (440 R211A cars)
Pitkin Yard (A/C): 440 cars
(direct R46 replacement and CBTC Installation on 8th Avenue Line).
20 R211T cars
(Split Between Pitkin and Jamaica Yards)
1st Option Order (640 R211A cars)
130 cars to 207th Street Yard to push the (4-car) R179's to East New York Yard
510 cars to Jamaica Yard for (E), (F), (R) routes, R160's moved over to Concourse and Coney Island Yards for the (B) and (D) routes in case if needed to be rerouted via 8th Avenue Line once CBTC over there becomes active.
2nd Option order (81 five-car sets)
250 cars to Jamaica Yard to push out several R160's over to Coney Island Yard to make the (Q) 100% NTT's in case if needed to be rerouted via 6th Avenue Line once CBTC over there becomes active.
The remaining 155 cars go to Pitkin for frequency boosts and to run more service.
2nd Option order (8 four car sets)
The (8 four car sets) would be placed at East New York Yard for expanded fleet needs in the Eastern Division.
The 20 R211T will be assigned to Jamaica Yard for sure. Pitkin and 207th Street Yard is fine at 570 cars for a light fleet expansion. Jamaica Yard will need more R211s to spare. They will need at least 90 to 93 cars to increase the spare factor. The R211s 4 car sets only have 32 cars and can go to the M Train.
@@jonathancho8807stupid 🤬that’s false
if the broadway gets full CBTC, the train would look repetitive and boring.
we want SMEEs back! add them on a new line as a moving museum!
EF share Jamaica Yard and they currently share R160s.
True and they will permanently 🙂
@@phillipvalasquez3145 Not permanently. Insider information says that Jamaica Yard is getting a piece of the R211 option orders, probably about 200 cars.
@@TheRailLeaguer I heard it is permanently.
@@phillipvalasquez3145 Maybe permanently NTT but not R160. Insider sources say that Jamaica Yard could be getting a portion of the option orders.
@@TheRailLeaguer wrong I heard Jamaica won’t be getting R211’s whoever told you that should be fired for giving you false information.
I was told they'll be on the A & C LINES WITH the 160s going to Staten lsland....
Staten Island is getting a brand new fleet of R211s as well. 75 R211S cars are part of the 535 car base order and are outfitted with cab signaling for FRA compliance.
No r160's in staten Island, because r211s and r44s should do the job until r44s retire. That of course will happen slowly starting with the integration of the r211s and will be totally gone when r211s can replace it fully. The r44's will take there last retirement run in the mainland most likely, on the line it debuted on which was the F line.
You can nip that in the bud lol. If there's one thing that's a rock-solid confirmation here, it's that R211s are going to Staten Island. They even have a designation "R211S".
R179 on m and g train makes sense,but r143 g trains wouldn’t be bad because there are cbtc equipped but the r179 isn’t yet,getting booted from the L train with r160,for crosstown and upper culver cbtc.
The R143's have CBTC that is only compatible with the (L).
@@MysticTransit I believe the (L) CBTC is very different from other types.
@MysticTransit I was wondering why you didn't include the 143s. It all makes sense now. Is it the same with the R188s?
@@MysticTransit it can be retrofitted with similar technology as the upcoming r142/a cbtc.
I think it makes sense to send some R143 on the m train
Car assignments will be wherever the R46’s are and wherever the new CBTC installations are. The A, the C, the N & the Q run the R46s so they will likely be getting the new cars. 8th Avenue is being equipped with CBTC so the A and C will need the cars.
The Rockaway Shuttle (H) also runs R46s but they could get the R211s as well, as there is an R179 set on the H currently.
Astoria Line CBTC was pulled out of the upcoming CBTC plans so it’s expected that the cars will be assigned to both 8th Avenue and Queens Blvd Line services, and maybe the 6th Avenue Line with an outside chance.
@@TheRailLeaguer Concourse is keeping it's R68s and will receive R68As from the B/N/Q/W
CIY will have R68/As R160s/R211's
(B) getting R160s/R211's
(D) keeping R68s and will receive R68As from the (B) (N) (Q) (W) and it will remain with having R68/As until a contract is awarded to replace R68/As in the future
(F) Most R160s/ Some R179's
(N/W) will get mixed equipment of R160s/R211's
(Q) R211's only
@@Samuelltooooo R211’s are going to the A, C, B, D lines since those lines need NTT for 6th & 8th Ave CBTC.
R211s aren’t going to the N Q W because broadway cbtc is not coming anytime soon. Broadway cbtc and Astoria cbtc will be activated in 2030 so R268 are going there.
R211s are going to the A C F and R possibly for the E. B and D are getting new trains.
My final predictions are
(A/C): 10 Car R179s & R211As
(B/D): R160A-B’s
(E/F): R211As and R211Ts
(G/R): 10 Car R160A-B’s and R211A’s
(J/Z): R143s Rush Hours Only R160s R179s
(L): R143s and R160s
(M): R160s R179s and R211s
(N/Q/W): R68 and R68A N and Q Trains can use a small amount of R160s when the B and W Trains are not running on the weekends
Franklin Avenue Shuttle: R68s
Rockaway Park Shuttle: R179s and R211s
I Think The R211 Should Go On The J & Z For Added Service
Speaking Of J/Z, Should We Reroute It From Bowery To Hoboken Via The PATH?
That is literally impossible. How can you reroute a NYC subway train via PATH if the MTA does not even own PATH. Besides, the J/Z are supposed to be in NYC, not NJ.
@@r160fan7 I Meant Different Tracks Used Going The Same Direction
There is no reason for the J and Z to have R211 because the R211 has 5 cars and can't go to ENY Yard. The MTA will never expand the NYC Subway to New Jersey.
Also, if Option 2 Order hits. They would likely go to the M on weekdays but the L on weekends. But I don't think that J L M Z are getting R211s.
If this actually happens I think they should l d retire R46s and some R68As and R68s
If the delivery is successful in service. This would leave the r68 the only fleet remain and they won't be taken out until 2035 at least. The r143 consist of 212 cars, the r160 is 1,662 cars. r179 is 318 cars and r211 is 1,612 cars. The r211 consist of 440 cars as r211a built standard much like the r169/179 cars in addition to 75 r211s cars, the remainder of the order are 640 and 405 cars of r 211t which are the open gangway arrange in five car units while 32 cars are four car units which is not much unless they can change it having the last option order be 305 cars for five car units and 132 cars arrange in four car units. That would be 44 standard sets, 94 gangway sets and one extra unit and 16 eight car set and one extra unit but we'll have to see. Most likely, the r211 can be stored in three yards, Jamaica, pitkins and coney island yards. 440 r211a and 300 r211t in pitkins, 305 and 211t in coney island and 340 to 32 or 132 r211t in Jamaica. B,D,NQ,W retain the r68 and use a small percentage of the new cars, the E and the F can use 240 of r211 leaving the G with 65. The C can use 211 both standard and articulate units and the A can use 90 r179 and the rest would be r211. The L would be r143/160, J/Z r143/179 and the M is r160/211. We can only hope that the next batch of new cars would be almost just the amount as the r160 so it that most routes can use the standard and articulate units.
The R211 base order is for the A/C and the Staten Island Railway. The 1st option order will go to the B and D for 6th Avenue CBTC. The R68/A's will run on the N/W and Q. The 2nd option order wasn't placed yet and probably isn't needed.
As for the Jamaica Yard, it's extremely unlikely to receive R211's since it already has the CBTC-equipped R160s.
@@clbtransit4798 they have to complete the entire order which is why they have to go through with this and it wouldn't make any sense to include the features and not living up to the deal which people were hoping to see like the open gangways and USB charger. The order has to carry out even if it takes longer. It takes 1080 cars to retire the r46 and the remaining 405 cars to supply extra trains for additional capacity or upcoming projects. The r211 assignments depends on what lines are being installed for CBTC.
@@ianhardy9375 They're not obligated to order subway cars that they don't need. If it's pursued, they would be better off using the 2nd option order for additional CBTC installations.
@@clbtransit4798 I just said that before that the remaining cars of option two are going to be use for CBTC mostly on the lines built by the IND. The C train needs full length trains and the G needs some extra trains and in addition to various things like mixing the 4 car unit and 5 car unit to make a 9 car train set I say its worth having additional cars. Better be safe than sorry
@Ian Hardy There are extra trains allocated in the base order for the A and C. As for the G, you're clueless to understand that the Jamaica Yard has an R160 surplus for service increases if necessary.
The C doesn't need to be 100% full-length. Ridership on that line has historically been low, and ridership hasn't fully rebounded
Great video!
Thanks!
Your welcome
Cannot wait till we see the r262 cars but I am guessing That won’t happen another 1015 years
Wrong the MtA chairman is having a big meeting a bout it. I do have this spriital feeling they are gonna make the R262as at Kawasaki Yonkers I'm telling you. How do you think that they made the R142as from Kawasaki Yonkers and the R188s R160as and the M9s from Kawasaki Yonkers. We have not heard about the M9as from metro North railroad yet.
@@leecornwell5632 The contract should go to Alstom or Siemens maybe Kawasaki building the extra trains
@@Amiri_Francis They are building extra subway cars in Kawasaki Yonkers and the M9AS for metro North. I have a spriital feeling that they are gonna build the R262as I could tell you that now. Nabrasa Kawasaki has a sick staff shortages I just found out this pass week.
Should TA exercise all the option orders, not only will the R46s be retired, but all the 75' long cars will be retired, except for maybe 10 R68s for the Franklin Shuttle. This will allow for C service to Lefferts Blvd, and A service to both halves of the Rockaways.
Not quite. There will be 185 R68s left over, including the 9 for the Franklin Ave shuttle. (That's 22 trains excluding the shuttle.)
And this assumes they replace some R68s without using the additional new trains to run more frequent service.
There are no plans for immediate replacement of the R68/As.
@@TheRailLeaguer 100% Accurate. The cars that will eventually replace the R68/A's won't be awarded/paid from the 2025-2029 Capital Plan. With the cars being deployed in the first half of the 2030's.
R211 car assignment predictions
Base Order 440 cars the A, C and Rockaway Park (S) will be getting the Base order of R211's to Retire 356 R46's at Pitkin Yard and the A and Rockaway Park (S) will use 10-car R179's while the C keeps its 8-car R179's and will also get the Base order of R211's that leaves around 75 R211S to replace R44's in Staten Island Railway
Option Order 1 (640 cars) the B and D will get R211's from the 1st Option Order because the B and D will need to be 100% NTT for upcoming CBTC installations on 6th and 8th avenues While R68's from Concourse will get transferred at Coney Island Yard to Run on the N/W and R68/A's from the B will also get transferred to Coney Island Yard to run on the Q and the N & Q will use R211's from the B During weekends and late nights when the B and W aren't Running
Option Order 2 (437 cars) this option order contains 32 (4-car sets) and 405 (5-car sets) Queens Boulevard has the possiblity to get the R211's From my understanding the 32 4-car R211's would go to the G line and the 405 5-car R211's would go to The E, F & R lines while some R160's from Jamaica will be Displaced to Return at Coney Island Yard to go on the N/W lines
Final Predictions
(A) and Rockaway Park (S): Gets Base order R211's and 10-car R179's
(C): Keeps its 8-car R179's and Gets Base Order R211's
(B): R211's only
(D): Same as the (B)
(E): R160's and R211's
(F): Same as the (E)
(G): R160's and R211's
(J/Z) R143's, R179's
(M) R160's only
(N/W) R68/A's and R160's (may use R211's during weekends and late nights when the (B) and (W) aren't running)
(Q) R68/A's only (may use R160's and R211's During weekends and late nights when the B and W aren't Running)
(R): R160's and R211's
Note: the N/W would need some NTT's since it is easier to switch routes at Astoria Ditmars Blvd Remember it isn't easy to Switch Routes with the R68/A's and R46's
Lets go Staten island
I pray they’re not on the N/W anytime soon- I hate these new cars and their dentist chair lighting / removal of the corner seats/inability to enjoy a relaxing view out the window. Long live the R68/R68A.
They won’t. Supposedly the option R211s will go to Queens Blvd (Jamaica Yard) and the R160s will return back to Coney Island Yard. Makes logical sense due to crowding on the E and F routes and the fact that this ties into the 8th Avenue CBTC operation as well.
I don't think that the nassu line needs r211s. Maybe the M line but definitely not the J or Z.
The r211s will be assigned to the A and C trains they can keep the 130 cars of r179 five car units as for the r211s would be range from 500 to 600 cars are he A runs a total of 38 train sets while the C is 18 trains and the shuttle runs three trains with only half the units. The N and W utilize 33 trains so that's 330 cars total while the Q runs 21 trains total so it needs 210 cars so that's another 600 if not under 700 cars for the time being unless they'll go to the B and the D trains, again range between 600 and 700 cars. The Jamaica yard can utilize the reminder of the five car units of r211s. The 96 cars of r179 four car units would be transferred to the ENY yard to supply extra trains for the J. 32 r211s four car units to be use on the M and the 75 cars to the SIR.
I hope the R211s are good.
Same.
They will be, trust me.
Then again, I thought the same about r179's then...BLECK. We had gallons of lemonade.
You know that not all of the 211s will have gangways, the non-gangway cars (R211A) would probably be used on the (A), (C), (E); the 211Ts would be on the (N), (Q)/, (R),(W), and the SIRT…
Yes, I know. The R211A's still have more standing room than the current NTT's in the system though.
Why they gotta do Broadway dirty like that? Just moved to Sheepshead Bay literally after the R160/R46/R68 swap and would love to have at least some R211s on the Q.
Broadway is not on the list for CBTC as of yet. However I’ve been hearing some speculation that the Q could be getting R160s back once the fleet needs for Concourse are filled.
@@TheRailLeaguer are you seriously that dumb those R160’s are needed for CBTC the Q will use OTT for atleast another decade
@@karinathomas6506 That is an option that can be considered, especially after allotments for more important lines like 8th Avenue, Queens Blvd, and 6th Avenue are filled. I’m basing this off the information BrianMercy told me the other day.
@@TheRailLeaguer Some R160's will probably go back to CI. But they would be on the N/W. It depends if concourse gets the B, Then CI would be stuck with nothing but R68's if they lose the B.
@@R323838 That could probably be true.
"the A/C use the oldest models in the system"
meanwhile the R44 in si