**Just a heads up - my MOSFET power handling calculations are for ease of illustration ONLY! - I understand this is not how you calculate load/headroom etc and there are many other factors involved :^)
@@basook6116-- Even with an OEM programmer there are more hidden levels & settings. A programmer doesn't solve everything. In the wrong hands, you can destroy things with a programmer.
What good timing Dan; I was just about to take one power controller apart, because I am in the progress of learning how the electric system of my experimental C500 works. I have a number of questions, will post them separately as this may also be useful to other viewers. Thanks for making this video!
That was one of the most informative videos I have ever watched. "All freaken' 20 of them...."(seat actuator mosfets) "Springs on a pcb!", (to hold down mosfets to heat sinks), "When something goes wrong, it will go wrong in a catastrophic way"... o-rings etc. GREAT stuff. But yet detailed with mosfet pn# close-ups, thermal issues, all of it. Great video, Dan.
yup! youll have to make up some wiring adapters.. the motor connectors are different, as well as the battery connector.. but R-Net control can run pretty much any wheelchair motors! you'll need an R-Net USB dongle though to change necessary settings to make it work with other brands of motors though
@@TotallyNormal- I want able to change over to the RNET system quite yet but I did at least upgrade to the 90 amp controller and bought a pair of used motors from a Quantum 2.0 that I'm retro fitting this weekend. Hopefully that will at least give me a considerable boost and I can move to the MK6 Controller do I don't have to keep renting a programmer every time I want to adjust something. I hope to do the RNET upgrade asap and probably upgrade motors again at that point. I'm building another chair now also, free from all the proprietary constraints of the wheelchair manufacturers. I've gotta work out the controls so that I can still get that powerchair experience, but I'm building it around 2x 36-48v, 500watt brushless motors instead of the gearbox wheelchair motors
Well Dan that was in depth. Thanks for the MOSFET tour LOL there is a definite difference between having a 'familiar idea' with what you think 'it' does, moving to a more intimate knowledge.
Thank You for talking the time to explain... I have a chair that my Angel uses before she passed 8 years ago due to MS. I want to say it’s a Quantum. Custom seat with tilt, head and leg rest. Very fast. I want to learn more about it. May five trips to the store on it. It sat, unused for a year. I charged it a few times till the display started rapidly flashing. Maybe the battery. It’s in storage. Your videos inspire me to get it going again. 🙏🏻
yea - usually batteries tend to go bad when the chairs sit around for any period of time.. that's always the first thing to check when getting a chair going again. good luck!
I'll be the first to admit that electronics is NOT my strong suit, but this was easily understandable. I was curious about the smaller size primary wires on the 120amp vs 90amp controllers. Then I took a look at the primary (red & black) wires in the R-net joystick harness I have and they appear to be the smaller size of the 120amp controller. I don't see any advantage to having heavier gauge wiring anywhere else in the primary circuit than you would have coming from the charger connection port. The real difference in performance, as you pointed out, is the quality and number of MOSFETS in the 120amp R-net controller. I think larger cooling fins or a small cooling fan should be an optional upgrade with the 120amp controller to avoid thermal issues that seem to be common on chairs that get heavy use in hotter climates. IMHO
since there's already a bunch of heat inside the controller to begin with, the larger wires, and soldered on charging wires just ensure there's no bottlenecks for charging.. but YES you're correct! the rest of the charging circuit cant handle any more power anyways... however, i neglected to mention that those same 2 wires also power the rest of the chair - joystick, actuators etc etc.. it charges the batteries, but also powers the rest of the chair's electronics, and other modules.
Question about max amount of power that can be given continuously: what the power controller can deliver continuously is depending on what the batteries can deliver and what the fuse will let through. What is the bottle neck usually? What batteries and fuse do we need for the most powerful power controller?
the "bottleneck" is the entire system... right now the 120 amp controllers are putting out the max amount of power the motors can handle, and that the batteries can provide. the R-net drive system works very well!
Dan, will you do a video on the "lighting controllers"? I am trying to troubleshoot a "lighting controller" and tilt actuator / linear actuator that failed on my daughter's old Quickie S646SE with an old P&G control system.
@@TotallyNormal- mosfet sets off battery... and my only chance is to roll it towards the pond downhill.... complete terror!! naw, you're doing awesome bud.... keep it up!
Question: even though R-net works great, I don't like it (no access, too expensive). Can we bypass the system and drive the power controllers ourselves with PWM? (Arduino). How does R-net drive the motors now? From the joystick/interface unit there is the 4 poles Permobil wire going to power controller, what communication is going on there? (not PWM yet I think).
PWM or pulse width modulation is how these chairs work. there's no real benefit in switching to another type of drive system - unless you're wanting to run higher voltage or something..
Hi I'm Jerry, I have been a subscriber for some months now and really enjoy your videos and the great contribution you make to others including myself with your understanding of many different chairs and products. Your experiences have helped me in narrowing down my decision in a new power chair Purchase. How can I contact you or is that even a option I would like to talk to if at all possible. I am 57 and a quad of 39 years. Man oh man do I have wheelchair stories to share! Some of your viewers probably remember these times and chairs .I go back to 1981 my first new chair was a Ernest Jennings belt drive chairs that couldn't drive over it's own shadow and I am not joking it could not hardly straighten its own from caster wheels out if they were sideways. I have had 5 chairs since. The best chair I have ever owned by far was my a 1999 Model Invacare Arrow Storm Series with just tilt from Invacare. I ordered this chair with bigger gearboxes that came standard on the four pole motor upgrade performance package. I never once destroyed a gearbox but did ring off a armature shaft that drove the gearbox however the motor still ran fine with the shaft sheared off below the winding of course. My father did all of my maintenance so he replaced the armature and the pinion gear in the gearbox and I was going again with no major problems throughout the 11 years I used it daily. I had no backup chair just my Father keep everything fixed and running smooth. This performance package also came with independent spring assist shocks for suspension and the wide tires on the back along with the wider bigger front casters and tires on the front. It rode fantastic compared to the Invacare Storm SP I bought in 2010 and currently am in today. The gearboxes are a third of the size of my previous Arrow Storm and I have a box of 7 or 8 busted gearboxes to prove it. This chair has motion concepts tilt and recline. I have 7 busted actuators in a box beside the gearboxes box along with 6 hubs wore out hubs. I am fixing to get a new chair which is a big investment for me. I am some what old school I prefer talking instead of a lot of typing. I am looking at a Bounder or a F3 because my Medicare will help and I can pay for some upgrades. I would really enjoy a F5 over a F3 if I decided on the Permobile. as I am sure most of us would. I know nothing about Rnet versus Linx software and controllers so input from you would be great. I am also very interested in the power seat elevation option and definitely I am adding the Power leg rest option to whichever chair I get. I am a outdoor person and go in sandy rough areas. My home is easy for me to maneuver around in, I am fortunate to live in a older home with wide doorways, wide hall ways and large rooms. I have only used rear wheel drive wheelchairs for 39 years so that is a concern of mine along with the narrow tires of a Permobile F3-F5 it seems to me they would get stuck easily in my travels. I know the skinny tires on my Invacare would probably never make it around. Any help with this I would be greatly appreciate thanks for any input, Jerry
hey - welcome! usually the easiest way to chat is via twitter direct messages (there's a link in the video description for that) otherwise email works as well.. but email responses will be quite a bit slower.. just due to the volume of messages that arrive everyday. on the main channel page, "about" tab theres a 'for business inquiries' button - and thats where the email address lives!
@@TotallyNormal- Good Morning Dan from the Carolinas. I hope I have your name right if not my apologies. I have a account but never have I sent things on twitter. I know I know guys that's terrible but true :). Thanks for responding to my post. Have a fantastic productive day Dan and to the entire group of wonderful people here. Peace. Jerry
What I really want to know is how to get them to accept 12 extra volts without complaining. They can definitely handle it but overvolting is generally not going to work, at least not in my Pronto M51. I've got the battery built but can't seem to overcome the current limiting
What's the trade-off between fins and thermal mass? If fins are cut deeper, thermal mass is going to be reduced. Does the controller have moving air passing over it to make fins effective?
thermal mass is good for short, temporary loads - but once its reached saturation, the heat cant go anywhere easily. ya needs LOTS of surface area (more fins) for dissipation of heat into the air - even with less thermal mass. under the plastic covers on the chairs, more fins also create a convection current that keeps air moving around
Hi top video awesome I have just brought a new wheelchair it's a karma Leon so powerful fast & very good off-road take a look at them see what you think And love all the videos Stay safe
AWESOME. This Video Gets a 100 on a scale of 10 !!! To the man behind the curtain, Thanks OZ ! Comments: Quantum -- The Quantum CTLDC1466 are on the Qlogic 1& 2 and Edge 1&2 Chairs with seat accessories: lift, tilt, recline, leg lifts. I think the CTLDC1552 were common on Jazzy 600 wheelchairs. I believe the CTLDC1552 is for tilt only seating. Wire Size-- Is the smaller wire Teflon coated vs PVC coated wire? Rnet-- Seems like these controllers are somewhat serviceable. The components prone to failure (electrolytic caps, mosfets) aren't coated. Question: Inside the Quantum CTLDC1466, did you discover which component is the sensor that shuts your chair down. I call it the tilt sensor like a pinball machine "tilt-off-switch". Can you show us that component and would it be possible to over ride it if you were building a robot chair. NOTE: I am NOT asking you to show us how to over ride it. Just asking if it can be done. This video covers something I've been wanting to do myself. Thank you very much for this video.
haha yes! that will be in the photos etc once i get them all posted later today (hopefully) i forgot to look for that tilt sensor whilst the cameras were rolling though!!
turns out the tilt switch is a surface mount component on the PCB inside the seating control module.. its a little 8 pin chip.. and its REALLY buried in there! not much can be done to adjust it - short of using a programmer or physically mounting the module at an angle on the chair
@@TotallyNormal- That's really bizarre. I wonder what's inside. ...must be either a tiny reed switch or a rolling ball. I'm guessing a reed switch. I can't imagine anything else being sensitive enough. FYI: I tried driving a chair with the CTLDC1466 loosely mounted once and the chair would false-tilt. I don't think you can run that box anyway but vertical. That's why I suspect a reed. I think a ball might be subject to more false triggers.
Question about the efficiency: the need for cooling is a major element of these power controllers, thus a lot of energy is wasted, can we calculate how big of a % of our precious battery power is lost in heat? When looking online for DC motor drivers, I noticed that there seem to be 2 types; one with a big heat sink that is not efficient, and one without a big heat sink that is more efficient. Do you know how come, and which one of the two are being used in wheelchair power controllers? For example: not efficient (40-70%): L298N H-Bridge Motor Controller, and the efficient (91-95%): TB6612FNG H-Bridge Motor Controller. Source ruclips.net/video/JPPTRj0KWbg/видео.html
that link is for 2 amp controllers for drones - totally different application. power chairs use 80-150 amps to move around. PWM generates heat - no way around it.
thank you so much. awesome video as always is this the power module of your STEAMPUNK c300? or that use another version of power module? if so could you please give some info /links of that module?
i use a 120 amp controller in the 'steampunk' C300 chair :^) but ive also swapped some F3 motors onto it as well.. so its a pretty sketchy chair as far as safety goes!
thats one way to handle quick recharging! 2 self-installed connectors, and a dual channel 12v charger! (or even charging in series with a separate connector - but gotta be careful charging in series at higher amperages - the cells/batteries can get out of sync pretty easily)
@@TotallyNormal- I typically use a noco genius g26000 charger, it can charge at 12V or 24V (highly recommend btw). I have a small powerpole quick connect on each battery and then a sb50 on the chair. So I can charge or recondition a battery individually if I need to. I also made myself an adapter cable that allows me to charge from my van by disconnecting the quick connects and connecting them to the adapter in parallel.
@@JordanHaisley The van Charger sounds Pretty Slick! ...Yeah its pretty straight forward. But it's that type of awesome idea that seems so obvious that most people overlook it. Great tip !!! BTW: Automotive jumper cables are a great source for wire. Cut the jumper cables to length and add your SB50 Crimp connectors. It was the cheapest bulk wire I could find. Sometimes 16 foot jumper cables are as low as $8... I think they sent me something 2 awg stranded copper wire too !
I live in Southern California (HOT) and in a hilly area. Because of that, I sometimes get thermal rollback. I have thought about installing a small fan to cool the exterior of my controller. I think I saw something in one of your videos about fans for cooling your soccer chairs. Can you share how you wired in the fans please?
YES! sometimes in the summer here that happens to me as well.. ive installed them on a few chairs.. sometimes with temperature sensors, and other times on a toggle switch.. the latter is probably the easiest.. depends on the chair where the fans should be mounted etc...
So can my Permobil F3 run on 90 amp controllers or are they strictly running on 120 amp controllers? Because I have all the Power seating functions and Bluetooth modules on my chair
@@TotallyNormal- I would assume I would be on 120 amp controllers on my chair because of all the functions. Could you possibly do an inspection on your F3 in the future to determine which controllers are running on yours?
they've just launched new chairs with different control systems.. one of which is an R-net 120 amp setup.. I'll be investigating the LINX variant of their new lithium chairs soon :^) but as far as the batteries theyre using - they are drop-in replacements.. all the charging/load balancing etc is managed internally by the big lithium battery packs
Hey Dan I’ve been watching your videos for a while now and I was curious I’m watching the videos on the controllers for different chairs I was curious on which one you think that would be the best controller for a new chair cause I’m fixing to get a new chair and I would like your opinion on which one I wanna tell them to put on my new chair if you can please send me a message back and let me know which one you think that would be the best I am going with Permobil wheelchair F5 again the current wheelchair that I have is it PermobilAF5 but I was curious on which which controller you think that would be the best controller for me to tell them to put on my new chair please send me a message back if you can and let me know thanks
Hey .. If I want to replace my gel batteries with LiFe4 batteries. What should I have as a minium peak? Will 150A be enough? i have r-net 120a and it draws by no more than 120a in total?
It’s good to factor in a bit of a buffer.. I would think 150A should be sufficient. I still need to do some full load current testing on the R-Net controllers. On the dynamic controls my bouncer has, I occasionally see 130 amp spikes for a split second! But the 120A boost on R-net controllers only lasts 10 seconds at the most..
@@TotallyNormal- lithiumpro.dk/vare/lithiumpro-lifepo4-24v-100ah-150a-pro-serie/ Thanks for your reply .. That because I was confused about whether it was called 120a per motor or 60a.
"technically"with the PWM control they use - you can get 120A on BOTH channels at the same time :^) just FYI in case you're building something custom and need to know the output ratings! with PWM high speed switching you can have both running at the same time.. i need to bust out the oscilloscope and check but usually PWM is something like an average of 14,000 Hz switching (though im not 100% sure the switching speed on wheelchairs)
Hi I want to ask question a 1/2 wheelchair I have wheelchair electri But I want Bluetooth wireless In my wheelchair What can I do Please Can you give me ID for For Bluetooth wireless What I need And thank you very much
**Just a heads up - my MOSFET power handling calculations are for ease of illustration ONLY! - I understand this is not how you calculate load/headroom etc and there are many other factors involved :^)
Quantum wheelchair is pain to work with, specially Qlogic without the programmer
@@basook6116-- Even with an OEM programmer there are more hidden levels & settings. A programmer doesn't solve everything. In the wrong hands, you can destroy things with a programmer.
What good timing Dan; I was just about to take one power controller apart, because I am in the progress of learning how the electric system of my experimental C500 works. I have a number of questions, will post them separately as this may also be useful to other viewers. Thanks for making this video!
That was one of the most informative videos I have ever watched. "All freaken' 20 of them...."(seat actuator mosfets) "Springs on a pcb!", (to hold down mosfets to heat sinks), "When something goes wrong, it will go wrong in a catastrophic way"... o-rings etc. GREAT stuff. But yet detailed with mosfet pn# close-ups, thermal issues, all of it. Great video, Dan.
Great video! Thank You!
So that RNET 120 can replace my controller on the invacare?
yup! youll have to make up some wiring adapters.. the motor connectors are different, as well as the battery connector.. but R-Net control can run pretty much any wheelchair motors! you'll need an R-Net USB dongle though to change necessary settings to make it work with other brands of motors though
@@TotallyNormal- I want able to change over to the RNET system quite yet but I did at least upgrade to the 90 amp controller and bought a pair of used motors from a Quantum 2.0 that I'm retro fitting this weekend. Hopefully that will at least give me a considerable boost and I can move to the MK6 Controller do I don't have to keep renting a programmer every time I want to adjust something. I hope to do the RNET upgrade asap and probably upgrade motors again at that point. I'm building another chair now also, free from all the proprietary constraints of the wheelchair manufacturers. I've gotta work out the controls so that I can still get that powerchair experience, but I'm building it around 2x 36-48v, 500watt brushless motors instead of the gearbox wheelchair motors
Well Dan that was in depth. Thanks for the MOSFET tour LOL there is a definite difference between having a 'familiar idea' with what you think 'it' does, moving to a more intimate knowledge.
Thank You for talking the time to explain...
I have a chair that my Angel uses before she passed 8 years ago due to MS. I want to say it’s a Quantum. Custom seat with tilt, head and leg rest. Very fast. I want to learn more about it. May five trips to the store on it.
It sat, unused for a year. I charged it a few times till the display started rapidly flashing. Maybe the battery. It’s in storage. Your videos inspire me to get it going again. 🙏🏻
yea - usually batteries tend to go bad when the chairs sit around for any period of time.. that's always the first thing to check when getting a chair going again. good luck!
I'll be the first to admit that electronics is NOT my strong suit, but this was easily understandable. I was curious about the smaller size primary wires on the 120amp vs 90amp controllers. Then I took a look at the primary (red & black) wires in the R-net joystick harness I have and they appear to be the smaller size of the 120amp controller. I don't see any advantage to having heavier gauge wiring anywhere else in the primary circuit than you would have coming from the charger connection port. The real difference in performance, as you pointed out, is the quality and number of MOSFETS in the 120amp R-net controller. I think larger cooling fins or a small cooling fan should be an optional upgrade with the 120amp controller to avoid thermal issues that seem to be common on chairs that get heavy use in hotter climates. IMHO
since there's already a bunch of heat inside the controller to begin with, the larger wires, and soldered on charging wires just ensure there's no bottlenecks for charging.. but YES you're correct! the rest of the charging circuit cant handle any more power anyways... however, i neglected to mention that those same 2 wires also power the rest of the chair - joystick, actuators etc etc.. it charges the batteries, but also powers the rest of the chair's electronics, and other modules.
Question about max amount of power that can be given continuously: what the power controller can deliver continuously is depending on what the batteries can deliver and what the fuse will let through. What is the bottle neck usually? What batteries and fuse do we need for the most powerful power controller?
the "bottleneck" is the entire system... right now the 120 amp controllers are putting out the max amount of power the motors can handle, and that the batteries can provide. the R-net drive system works very well!
Very interesting video Dan! Neat to see what's under the hood of the controllers.
You always make awesome videos I always look forward to your videos so thanks Dan
Dan, will you do a video on the "lighting controllers"? I am trying to troubleshoot a "lighting controller" and tilt actuator / linear actuator that failed on my daughter's old Quickie S646SE with an old P&G control system.
Great video. I found it very interesting
now I'm afraid my wheelchair is gonna go pop at any minute!! :p
shrapnel everywhere...
the plastic covers will save you! lol yea i probably should have worded that part differently :^)
@@TotallyNormal- mosfet sets off battery... and my only chance is to roll it towards the pond downhill.... complete terror!!
naw, you're doing awesome bud.... keep it up!
Remember, solder melts at fairly low temperature. I'm guessing that's why the mechanical connection on the outputs.
Question: even though R-net works great, I don't like it (no access, too expensive). Can we bypass the system and drive the power controllers ourselves with PWM? (Arduino). How does R-net drive the motors now? From the joystick/interface unit there is the 4 poles Permobil wire going to power controller, what communication is going on there? (not PWM yet I think).
PWM or pulse width modulation is how these chairs work. there's no real benefit in switching to another type of drive system - unless you're wanting to run higher voltage or something..
Hi I'm Jerry, I have been a subscriber for some months now and really enjoy your videos and the great contribution you make to others including myself with your understanding of many different chairs and products. Your experiences have helped me in narrowing down my decision in a new power chair Purchase. How can I contact you or is that even a option I would like to talk to if at all possible. I am 57 and a quad of 39 years. Man oh man do I have wheelchair stories to share! Some of your viewers probably remember these times and chairs .I go back to 1981 my first new chair was a Ernest Jennings belt drive chairs that couldn't drive over it's own shadow and I am not joking it could not hardly straighten its own from caster wheels out if they were sideways. I have had 5 chairs since. The best chair I have ever owned by far was my a 1999 Model Invacare Arrow Storm Series with just tilt from Invacare. I ordered this chair with bigger gearboxes that came standard on the four pole motor upgrade performance package. I never once destroyed a gearbox but did ring off a armature shaft that drove the gearbox however the motor still ran fine with the shaft sheared off below the winding of course. My father did all of my maintenance so he replaced the armature and the pinion gear in the gearbox and I was going again with no major problems throughout the 11 years I used it daily. I had no backup chair just my Father keep everything fixed and running smooth. This performance package also came with independent spring assist shocks for suspension and the wide tires on the back along with the wider bigger front casters and tires on the front. It rode fantastic compared to the Invacare Storm SP I bought in 2010 and currently am in today. The gearboxes are a third of the size of my previous Arrow Storm and I have a box of 7 or 8 busted gearboxes to prove it. This chair has motion concepts tilt and recline. I have 7 busted actuators in a box beside the gearboxes box along with 6 hubs wore out hubs. I am fixing to get a new chair which is a big investment for me. I am some what old school I prefer talking instead of a lot of typing. I am looking at a Bounder or a F3 because my Medicare will help and I can pay for some upgrades. I would really enjoy a F5 over a F3 if I decided on the Permobile. as I am sure most of us would. I know nothing about Rnet versus Linx software and controllers so input from you would be great. I am also very interested in the power seat elevation option and definitely I am adding the Power leg rest option to whichever chair I get. I am a outdoor person and go in sandy rough areas. My home is easy for me to maneuver around in, I am fortunate to live in a older home with wide doorways, wide hall ways and large rooms. I have only used rear wheel drive wheelchairs for 39 years so that is a concern of mine along with the narrow tires of a Permobile F3-F5 it seems to me they would get stuck easily in my travels. I know the skinny tires on my Invacare would probably never make it around. Any help with this I would be greatly appreciate thanks for any input, Jerry
hey - welcome! usually the easiest way to chat is via twitter direct messages (there's a link in the video description for that) otherwise email works as well.. but email responses will be quite a bit slower.. just due to the volume of messages that arrive everyday. on the main channel page, "about" tab theres a 'for business inquiries' button - and thats where the email address lives!
@@TotallyNormal- Good Morning Dan from the Carolinas. I hope I have your name right if not my apologies. I have a account but never have I sent things on twitter. I know I know guys that's terrible but true :). Thanks for responding to my post. Have a fantastic productive day Dan and to the entire group of wonderful people here. Peace. Jerry
What I really want to know is how to get them to accept 12 extra volts without complaining. They can definitely handle it but overvolting is generally not going to work, at least not in my Pronto M51. I've got the battery built but can't seem to overcome the current limiting
at about 28 volts or so - most of them will start throwing high voltage errors and shut down :^/
What's the trade-off between fins and thermal mass? If fins are cut deeper, thermal mass is going to be reduced. Does the controller have moving air passing over it to make fins effective?
thermal mass is good for short, temporary loads - but once its reached saturation, the heat cant go anywhere easily. ya needs LOTS of surface area (more fins) for dissipation of heat into the air - even with less thermal mass. under the plastic covers on the chairs, more fins also create a convection current that keeps air moving around
hey handy man, I have to tell you, Quantum chairs are pain in the butt to work with, specially Qlogic controllers. what you think?
i 100% agree!!
keep up the good work, and I always enjoy your mechanical work shop
Hi top video awesome
I have just brought a new wheelchair it's a karma Leon so powerful fast & very good off-road take a look at them see what you think
And love all the videos
Stay safe
AWESOME. This Video Gets a 100 on a scale of 10 !!!
To the man behind the curtain, Thanks OZ !
Comments:
Quantum -- The Quantum CTLDC1466 are on the Qlogic 1& 2 and Edge 1&2 Chairs with seat accessories: lift, tilt, recline, leg lifts. I think the CTLDC1552 were common on Jazzy 600 wheelchairs. I believe the CTLDC1552 is for tilt only seating.
Wire Size-- Is the smaller wire Teflon coated vs PVC coated wire?
Rnet-- Seems like these controllers are somewhat serviceable. The components prone to failure (electrolytic caps, mosfets) aren't coated.
Question: Inside the Quantum CTLDC1466, did you discover which component is the sensor that shuts your chair down. I call it the tilt sensor like a pinball machine "tilt-off-switch". Can you show us that component and would it be possible to over ride it if you were building a robot chair. NOTE: I am NOT asking you to show us how to over ride it. Just asking if it can be done.
This video covers something I've been wanting to do myself. Thank you very much for this video.
haha yes! that will be in the photos etc once i get them all posted later today (hopefully) i forgot to look for that tilt sensor whilst the cameras were rolling though!!
excellent workaround!! nice!
@@RightoRepair Sweet :-)
turns out the tilt switch is a surface mount component on the PCB inside the seating control module.. its a little 8 pin chip.. and its REALLY buried in there! not much can be done to adjust it - short of using a programmer or physically mounting the module at an angle on the chair
@@TotallyNormal- That's really bizarre. I wonder what's inside. ...must be either a tiny reed switch or a rolling ball. I'm guessing a reed switch. I can't imagine anything else being sensitive enough. FYI: I tried driving a chair with the CTLDC1466 loosely mounted once and the chair would false-tilt. I don't think you can run that box anyway but vertical. That's why I suspect a reed. I think a ball might be subject to more false triggers.
Question about the efficiency: the need for cooling is a major element of these power controllers, thus a lot of energy is wasted, can we calculate how big of a % of our precious battery power is lost in heat? When looking online for DC motor drivers, I noticed that there seem to be 2 types; one with a big heat sink that is not efficient, and one without a big heat sink that is more efficient. Do you know how come, and which one of the two are being used in wheelchair power controllers? For example: not efficient (40-70%): L298N H-Bridge Motor Controller, and the efficient (91-95%): TB6612FNG H-Bridge Motor Controller. Source ruclips.net/video/JPPTRj0KWbg/видео.html
that link is for 2 amp controllers for drones - totally different application. power chairs use 80-150 amps to move around. PWM generates heat - no way around it.
thank you so much. awesome video as always
is this the power module of your STEAMPUNK c300? or that use another version of power module? if so could you please give some info /links of that module?
i use a 120 amp controller in the 'steampunk' C300 chair :^) but ive also swapped some F3 motors onto it as well.. so its a pretty sketchy chair as far as safety goes!
I charge most of my chairs at 20A, but I add anderson SB50 charging connectors to all of my chairs.
Interesting. What are you using for a charger?
thats one way to handle quick recharging! 2 self-installed connectors, and a dual channel 12v charger! (or even charging in series with a separate connector - but gotta be careful charging in series at higher amperages - the cells/batteries can get out of sync pretty easily)
@@TotallyNormal- I typically use a noco genius g26000 charger, it can charge at 12V or 24V (highly recommend btw). I have a small powerpole quick connect on each battery and then a sb50 on the chair. So I can charge or recondition a battery individually if I need to.
I also made myself an adapter cable that allows me to charge from my van by disconnecting the quick connects and connecting them to the adapter in parallel.
@@JordanHaisley The van Charger sounds Pretty Slick! ...Yeah its pretty straight forward. But it's that type of awesome idea that seems so obvious that most people overlook it. Great tip !!!
BTW: Automotive jumper cables are a great source for wire. Cut the jumper cables to length and add your SB50 Crimp connectors. It was the cheapest bulk wire I could find. Sometimes 16 foot jumper cables are as low as $8... I think they sent me something 2 awg stranded copper wire too !
I live in Southern California (HOT) and in a hilly area. Because of that, I sometimes get thermal rollback. I have thought about installing a small fan to cool the exterior of my controller. I think I saw something in one of your videos about fans for cooling your soccer chairs. Can you share how you wired in the fans please?
YES! sometimes in the summer here that happens to me as well.. ive installed them on a few chairs.. sometimes with temperature sensors, and other times on a toggle switch.. the latter is probably the easiest.. depends on the chair where the fans should be mounted etc...
So can my Permobil F3 run on 90 amp controllers or are they strictly running on 120 amp controllers? Because I have all the Power seating functions and Bluetooth modules on my chair
it depends.. but most of the newer chairs shipping now use the 120 amp controllers standard :^)
@@TotallyNormal- I would assume I would be on 120 amp controllers on my chair because of all the functions. Could you possibly do an inspection on your F3 in the future to determine which controllers are running on yours?
its the 120 amp version.. ya can see it in the F3 battery swap video :^)
@@TotallyNormal- OK, I didn't see what specific controller was on the chair when you swapped out the batteries but I'll take your word for it
what about 21st-century chairs with lithium batteries wonder what would be different?
they've just launched new chairs with different control systems.. one of which is an R-net 120 amp setup.. I'll be investigating the LINX variant of their new lithium chairs soon :^) but as far as the batteries theyre using - they are drop-in replacements.. all the charging/load balancing etc is managed internally by the big lithium battery packs
Hey Dan I’ve been watching your videos for a while now and I was curious I’m watching the videos on the controllers for different chairs I was curious on which one you think that would be the best controller for a new chair cause I’m fixing to get a new chair and I would like your opinion on which one I wanna tell them to put on my new chair if you can please send me a message back and let me know which one you think that would be the best I am going with Permobil wheelchair F5 again the current wheelchair that I have is it PermobilAF5 but I was curious on which which controller you think that would be the best controller for me to tell them to put on my new chair please send me a message back if you can and let me know thanks
Hey .. If I want to replace my gel batteries with LiFe4 batteries. What should I have as a minium peak? Will 150A be enough?
i have r-net 120a and it draws by no more than 120a in total?
It’s good to factor in a bit of a buffer.. I would think 150A should be sufficient. I still need to do some full load current testing on the R-Net controllers. On the dynamic controls my bouncer has, I occasionally see 130 amp spikes for a split second! But the 120A boost on R-net controllers only lasts 10 seconds at the most..
@@TotallyNormal- lithiumpro.dk/vare/lithiumpro-lifepo4-24v-100ah-150a-pro-serie/
Thanks for your reply .. That because I was confused about whether it was called 120a per motor or 60a.
yup the 120 a is TOTAL power!
@@TotallyNormal- 2x60a, thanks!! :)
"technically"with the PWM control they use - you can get 120A on BOTH channels at the same time :^) just FYI in case you're building something custom and need to know the output ratings! with PWM high speed switching you can have both running at the same time.. i need to bust out the oscilloscope and check but usually PWM is something like an average of 14,000 Hz switching (though im not 100% sure the switching speed on wheelchairs)
Hi I want to ask question a 1/2 wheelchair I have wheelchair electri But I want Bluetooth wireless In my wheelchair What can I do Please Can you give me ID for For Bluetooth wireless What I need And thank you very much
Hey is there an email I can email you for questions I got no problem joining if you're able to help me out with questions