Love the shop classes… I lost my Angel, Kristina, in 2013 due to MS. I have had her Quantum Edge 3 in storage. I’m just pulling it out to charge it, probably need new batteries. All the lights flash so it’s probably because the breaks are released. I’m going to watch all of your content, very interesting. Thank you for that. BTW I’m Sharky from Branson, Mo…
Excellent! I just acquired a newer F3 that belonged to a double-leg amputee and it had no leg/footrest installed. I have already ordered the mechanism itself, and learning all I can to install them on my chair, which I'm adapting to my use. This is very useful to me. Through a lot of research, I seem to have found the roller tray needed, waiting on the supplier to get back to me with a price, so I can complete my leg support installation. Success! I just got the roller tray a couple of days ago, went yesterday and got bolts and washers to complete the installation this weekend. I goofed yesterday and accidentally ran my chair off the walkway into soft, wet soil/mud. When it stopped, I tried several ways to get it to move. Ended up disengaging the motors, rotating, and dragging it back to the walkway. Disabilities aside, though, I got it out by myself.
I for one enjoy your shop classes Dan..I bought some of those Honda 50 tires and tubes and they have transformed my Rovi to a true off road chair...they rubbed the fender ever so lightly so I grabbed some spacers but liked the look better without them..thanks for that info, it was invaluable
My 4front pads fell off really fast,good idea on the skateboard grips.also my rival I have has just shy of 12,000 miles with motors replaced twice a year. So far I got 2367 miles on my 4front 2yes old n one new pair motors.
That explains a lot, thanks. My chair was donated to me. I would adjust the footrests, and then periodically they would slam down. I didn't realize there was an extension feature... it's not working. I'm not sure how to make it work though, cuz I don't know where it's hooked up to electrically work. Thanks though, at least I know I'm not going crazy now.
Informative video. I had a Q6000z that had a soft metal plate with teeth for the adjustment mechanism. The teeth on the soft metal broke and the leg rests would fall out going over room divider floor strips indoors. Haven’t had a single issue with my permobil and it is over 5 now. The other one had to have the adjustment mechanism replaced 3x and it only ran 3 1/2 of its 5 years. It spent 1 1/2 years waiting on prior authorization for repairs.
Another priceless tutorial about another aspect of permobil technology. Greatly appreciated! 2021 M5 and F5 look fantastic and you have opened many eyes regarding some frailties about the older technology. the batteries you moved using a permobil power leg rest put 'er to the test. Hows the new quantum?
Exactly what I was looking for. I was looking at a F3 but the seller is an amputee so there is no footrest on the chair. I thought it would be a simple thing to just get the assembly to add the footrest but now I see it would need a lot more and the controller probably isn't even set up to use a footrest if it was built without one. Thanks a bunch for the video.
actually the permobil chairs are plug and play! just buy the parts, plug in actuator, bootup and things will auto detect! (it takes 30-60 seconds for that process to occur tho and ya dont wanna touch anything till its complete and you see a giant power logo on the joystick display - also the ICS lights will flash during the process.. its all normal) FYI depending on how new the chair is, SOMETIMES a programmer might be required.. and the new actuator will definitely need to be calibrated after installation as well. (chairs before 2015 typically just power up and work though)
@@TotallyNormal-that's what I'm rapidly learning. I downloaded the manual this morning and started reading, then ordered the actuator off ebay, as well. I tilted the chair up to see the connection bus, and checking to make sure I get plugged into the correct slot. Honestly, that tickled me! I was expecting a little more complexity, but I'm liking that I followed my instincts and avoided some of the other used options I found on the Marketplace. One of the things I'm gonna need to figure out is that curved piece the rollers rid on beneath the chair that you showed. I finally tracked down the part number and name, now I need to find one. 323180 ROLLER BRACKET, LEGREST CORPUS
Mine are adjusted out to maximum, even dragging some on different terrain. And it still pushes my legs up forcing my knees up and pain. Which tells me they sold me the wrong chair for my build,, 6'4" tall and about 240 lbs. The damn thing gets stuck on two grains of sand.
Wow...I watched this in full at least 3 Times ! Who'd think you'd need to. Rite? Technical Questions: 1- If actuator shaft position placement is critical, can you give us the old-school positioning trick for the seat and leg-rest actuators? IE: If I gently turn the actuator shaft all the way in until it seats, how many full turns should I back it off for correct shaft placement? Thats how we used to DIY our carb-jets and tie-rods and they'd be spot on when we went for inspection! 2- 20:00 to 20:35, Just curious. Which wheelchair/ Rnet Module holds the programming that tells the footrest when to self adjust while its moving? THANKS DAN...very awesome video :-)
on permobil chairs the ICS is what controls ALL the seating and keeps track of actuator positions - (the ICS is a separate sub-network running on permobil chairs) the ICS has an auto-calibration it can perform - but resetting the actuator positions is tricky - the ICS knows where the last known position was - so there isn't really a 'manual' supported method to reset it. depending on the chair, there's maybe 1.5 to 3 turns before the actuator hits its mechanical limits at each end of travel. there is an over-amperage cutout - but it doesn't always prevent damage - and if the cutout is tripped the ICS may completely disable that actuator until it can be re-calibrated. ICS programming is done via the 8 button seating control pad, and the lights on it. honestly it makes my brain hurt even looking at the "quick setup" guide LOL. BUT... ive done this in some cases and it worked ok... if you KNOW the actuator is out of calibration, (leg rests for example) ya can kinda fake it.. with actuator disconnected from leg rests - use seating controls to completely retract the actuator, and while its moving, make sure it doesnt bottom out (twist actuator as necessary). keep using seating controls to retract it till the chair stops moving it. then manually screw it all the way in till it stops, and then back it out 2-3 turns. then while holding it (to prevent it from spinning) fully extend the actuator (slowly) using seating controls to make sure the full extension isnt topping out. ive gotten that to work in a few cases.. BUT its highly dependent on WHICH actuator it is, and how new the chair is. this should work on the recline, and power leg actuators in most chairs though. (tilt, and seat elevation is completely different though)
@@TotallyNormal- oooo, I forgot about tilt. my guess is that tilt sensors come into play. And I heard that the seat lift has mechanical limit switches. So, probably a different scenario for config. Thanks again :-)
yea on the "older" versions of the chairs the seat lift is 100% limit switch controlled.. so it can't get out of calibration at all. BUT the newer chairs.. F and M series (2012 ish and up) have actual firmware and logic controllers built INTO the actuators themselves (elevation and tilt) as well as some other complexities.. I'll just say that when the seat elevator breaks on a newer chair, permobil is more inclined to replace the ENTIRE chair! (yea they're NUTS to work on!) they don't want DME's attempting to replace elevation actuators because the risk of loosing a finger is so high!! - (also the vertical shaft on the newer chairs is actually the TILT actuator.. the elevation actuator is tucked way up underneath the seatpan)
@@TotallyNormal- So, in some respects, I'm lucky to have the older C300 with limit switches. HaHa :-) Oh, maybe it was an OLD C300 harness I was looking at that appeared to have backrest tilt sensors. Or, perhaps I'm mistaken.
Very detailed thank you for doing this video I think I saw a video not sure if it was one of yours with a Invacare chair where you can mount the leg rest at different points or angles so they are further back on your wheelchair and more out of your way I have the new permobil Corpus mvs would you know if there are different mounting options for the leg rests thank you
on permobil chairs the legs are affixed to the front edge of the seating - they can be moved back by adjusting the entire seat pan though. (which also changes the seat depth) but ya can also adjust the back of seat pan (and seat back) backwards to match
Thank you! This was really helpful but when I lower my footplates all the way, they are still about 4 inches off the ground. I am not able to put my feet on them while they are that high. They really need to be more flush with the ground so that I can slide my feet onto them.
that code is: Sensor; Cable between sensor and General Module; or GM is not working not 100% sure what it means.. but i'd check the basics.. make sure wiring isnt pinched anywhere, and check connectors etc.. i know the standing chairs have a few extra switches and sensors, but i haven't had a chance to look at one in person yet :^/
I have a question but have mot found my answer. My wife has a f3 permabil and the leg rest is stuck in the up position with error code ICS Leg error 209A flashing. How do i get her leg rest to lower? Thank you for any help
Hi, I'm only 4 foot 8 in tall so I'd rather the leg rests didn't extend, unless not doing so would cause some pelvic arm I'm not aware of, is there anyway I can make it so they don't extend?
usually ya need the leg rests to extend a bit otherwise the knees and legs end up being pulled up off the seat cushion when let rests are raised. most of the time when foot plates are set to the proper length the extension *should* be about right. in theory the spring loaded mechanism could be taken out from the bottom of the chair, and the adjustment strap cinched down to the appropriate length.. here's a video showing how that system works - - ruclips.net/video/SUqIWUcFB8o/видео.html
Thanks so much! I'm about to ditch my Pride 4front and purchase a Barely Used permobil M3. I was trying to figure out how to get the footplates to actually support my feet so that I can take bumps. My service person is a former 80P who used to work with Medicare and Medicaid who now sells wheelchairs privately. I'll share your video with him.
cool. I'd try the chair out first just to see how it fits.. there's a good chance it might be ok with the stock configuration. just get the height of the foot plates adjusted for ya with the cushion on the chair, and run the legs up and down a few times :^)
I need some advice on my batteries on my wheelchair. Sometime this month I'll be getting my first apartment and moving into it but in the nursing home I'm in they're not letting me use my electric wheelchair because I can walk in here (I can but it's really painful thanks to spina bifida and fatty filum) and I haven't used my electric wheelchair since August 2019. From the nursing home to the bus stop is 0.5 miles while from the bus stop to my apartment is 0.4 miles and the electric wheelchair were stored in a place where the outside elements (not rain or snow just the temperature) can get inside easily. From what I've said what are the chances of the batteries to fail on my way to my new apartment?
years back i was looking at living facilities, and they said the same thing.. they wouldn't allow my power chair.. said i had to use a manual chair.. so they're gonna make ya store it in a non-temperature controlled area? yea thats not the best for everything... if the batteries get super cold, they should be allowed to warm back up before using the chair (which can take 12-24 hours depending on the size of batteries)
@@TotallyNormal- yeah it's in a non temperature controlled area. I've already talked with the company that brought me the wheelchair and they did say that I would be able to replace them only when I live in my apartment but I'm worried about getting there from the nursing home when the day arrives.
Love the shop classes… I lost my Angel, Kristina, in 2013 due to MS.
I have had her Quantum Edge 3 in storage. I’m just pulling it out to charge it, probably need new batteries. All the lights flash so it’s probably because the breaks are released. I’m going to watch all of your content, very interesting. Thank you for that. BTW I’m Sharky from Branson, Mo…
Excellent! I just acquired a newer F3 that belonged to a double-leg amputee and it had no leg/footrest installed. I have already ordered the mechanism itself, and learning all I can to install them on my chair, which I'm adapting to my use. This is very useful to me.
Through a lot of research, I seem to have found the roller tray needed, waiting on the supplier to get back to me with a price, so I can complete my leg support installation.
Success! I just got the roller tray a couple of days ago, went yesterday and got bolts and washers to complete the installation this weekend.
I goofed yesterday and accidentally ran my chair off the walkway into soft, wet soil/mud. When it stopped, I tried several ways to get it to move. Ended up disengaging the motors, rotating, and dragging it back to the walkway. Disabilities aside, though, I got it out by myself.
Thank you for helping explain how our power wheelchairs work!
2018, and newer Permobil's will use two actuators provided the Active-Reach and/ or the VS option is added. Good stuff, Dan.
Thank you for this! Headed out to the garage to give myself 2 more inches of leg room. New boots doncha know😁
Technical Term: Applied Knowledge :-)
I for one enjoy your shop classes Dan..I bought some of those Honda 50 tires and tubes and they have transformed my Rovi to a true off road chair...they rubbed the fender ever so lightly so I grabbed some spacers but liked the look better without them..thanks for that info, it was invaluable
so they fit a Rovi.. good to know!!! sweet!!
They work great, and didn't even raise it too high for the EZ-lock to work...ride is improved 10 fold and I highly recommend
My 4front pads fell off really fast,good idea on the skateboard grips.also my rival I have has just shy of 12,000 miles with motors replaced twice a year. So far I got 2367 miles on my 4front 2yes old n one new pair motors.
@@bsdkong Did you reverse-rim the Rovi too?
Great work! I always learn a lot from your videos!
That explains a lot, thanks. My chair was donated to me. I would adjust the footrests, and then periodically they would slam down. I didn't realize there was an extension feature... it's not working. I'm not sure how to make it work though, cuz I don't know where it's hooked up to electrically work. Thanks though, at least I know I'm not going crazy now.
Your videos are awesome!
awesome video. my c300. my leg rest have been broke for years
Informative video. I had a Q6000z that had a soft metal plate with teeth for the adjustment mechanism. The teeth on the soft metal broke and the leg rests would fall out going over room divider floor strips indoors. Haven’t had a single issue with my permobil and it is over 5 now. The other one had to have the adjustment mechanism replaced 3x and it only ran 3 1/2 of its 5 years. It spent 1 1/2 years waiting on prior authorization for repairs.
Another priceless tutorial about another aspect of permobil technology. Greatly appreciated! 2021 M5 and F5 look fantastic and you have opened many eyes regarding some frailties about the older technology. the batteries you moved using a permobil power leg rest put 'er to the test. Hows the new quantum?
Exactly what I was looking for. I was looking at a F3 but the seller is an amputee so there is no footrest on the chair. I thought it would be a simple thing to just get the assembly to add the footrest but now I see it would need a lot more and the controller probably isn't even set up to use a footrest if it was built without one. Thanks a bunch for the video.
actually the permobil chairs are plug and play! just buy the parts, plug in actuator, bootup and things will auto detect! (it takes 30-60 seconds for that process to occur tho and ya dont wanna touch anything till its complete and you see a giant power logo on the joystick display - also the ICS lights will flash during the process.. its all normal) FYI depending on how new the chair is, SOMETIMES a programmer might be required.. and the new actuator will definitely need to be calibrated after installation as well. (chairs before 2015 typically just power up and work though)
@@TotallyNormal-that's what I'm rapidly learning. I downloaded the manual this morning and started reading, then ordered the actuator off ebay, as well. I tilted the chair up to see the connection bus, and checking to make sure I get plugged into the correct slot. Honestly, that tickled me! I was expecting a little more complexity, but I'm liking that I followed my instincts and avoided some of the other used options I found on the Marketplace.
One of the things I'm gonna need to figure out is that curved piece the rollers rid on beneath the chair that you showed.
I finally tracked down the part number and name, now I need to find one.
323180 ROLLER BRACKET, LEGREST CORPUS
Mine are adjusted out to maximum, even dragging some on different terrain. And it still pushes my legs up forcing my knees up and pain. Which tells me they sold me the wrong chair for my build,, 6'4" tall and about 240 lbs. The damn thing gets stuck on two grains of sand.
Wow...I watched this in full at least 3 Times ! Who'd think you'd need to. Rite?
Technical Questions: 1- If actuator shaft position placement is critical, can you give us the old-school positioning trick for the seat and leg-rest actuators? IE: If I gently turn the actuator shaft all the way in until it seats, how many full turns should I back it off for correct shaft placement? Thats how we used to DIY our carb-jets and tie-rods and they'd be spot on when we went for inspection!
2- 20:00 to 20:35, Just curious. Which wheelchair/ Rnet Module holds the programming that tells the footrest when to self adjust while its moving? THANKS DAN...very awesome video :-)
on permobil chairs the ICS is what controls ALL the seating and keeps track of actuator positions - (the ICS is a separate sub-network running on permobil chairs) the ICS has an auto-calibration it can perform - but resetting the actuator positions is tricky - the ICS knows where the last known position was - so there isn't really a 'manual' supported method to reset it. depending on the chair, there's maybe 1.5 to 3 turns before the actuator hits its mechanical limits at each end of travel. there is an over-amperage cutout - but it doesn't always prevent damage - and if the cutout is tripped the ICS may completely disable that actuator until it can be re-calibrated. ICS programming is done via the 8 button seating control pad, and the lights on it. honestly it makes my brain hurt even looking at the "quick setup" guide LOL. BUT... ive done this in some cases and it worked ok... if you KNOW the actuator is out of calibration, (leg rests for example) ya can kinda fake it.. with actuator disconnected from leg rests - use seating controls to completely retract the actuator, and while its moving, make sure it doesnt bottom out (twist actuator as necessary). keep using seating controls to retract it till the chair stops moving it. then manually screw it all the way in till it stops, and then back it out 2-3 turns. then while holding it (to prevent it from spinning) fully extend the actuator (slowly) using seating controls to make sure the full extension isnt topping out. ive gotten that to work in a few cases.. BUT its highly dependent on WHICH actuator it is, and how new the chair is. this should work on the recline, and power leg actuators in most chairs though. (tilt, and seat elevation is completely different though)
@@TotallyNormal- oooo, I forgot about tilt. my guess is that tilt sensors come into play. And I heard that the seat lift has mechanical limit switches. So, probably a different scenario for config.
Thanks again :-)
yea on the "older" versions of the chairs the seat lift is 100% limit switch controlled.. so it can't get out of calibration at all. BUT the newer chairs.. F and M series (2012 ish and up) have actual firmware and logic controllers built INTO the actuators themselves (elevation and tilt) as well as some other complexities.. I'll just say that when the seat elevator breaks on a newer chair, permobil is more inclined to replace the ENTIRE chair! (yea they're NUTS to work on!) they don't want DME's attempting to replace elevation actuators because the risk of loosing a finger is so high!! - (also the vertical shaft on the newer chairs is actually the TILT actuator.. the elevation actuator is tucked way up underneath the seatpan)
also permobil doesnt use any "tilt sensors" or tip switches like other manufacturers do.. its 100% based on actuator position awareness.
@@TotallyNormal- So, in some respects, I'm lucky to have the older C300 with limit switches. HaHa :-)
Oh, maybe it was an OLD C300 harness I was looking at that appeared to have backrest tilt sensors. Or, perhaps I'm mistaken.
I love your videos pal
Very detailed thank you for doing this video I think I saw a video not sure if it was one of yours with a Invacare chair where you can mount the leg rest at different points or angles so they are further back on your wheelchair and more out of your way I have the new permobil Corpus mvs would you know if there are different mounting options for the leg rests thank you
on permobil chairs the legs are affixed to the front edge of the seating - they can be moved back by adjusting the entire seat pan though. (which also changes the seat depth) but ya can also adjust the back of seat pan (and seat back) backwards to match
Thank you for responding hopefully I can get a technician to adjust it better for me your details are very helpful
Where do you plug the actuator in for power and control module?
My M5 legrests raise (tilt) but they don't extend.
good job
Thank you! This was really helpful but when I lower my footplates all the way, they are still about 4 inches off the ground. I am not able to put my feet on them while they are that high. They really need to be more flush with the ground so that I can slide my feet onto them.
Hi I just got a M3 corpus can my foot rest be changed so they go down flush to the floor. I've only had it 1 day
How did you fix the spring? Mine isn't broken but the spring need to be reattached
How strong are the footrests on the M3?
Are they suitable to weight bear for repositioning?
its best not to stand on them - not sure the actual weight capacity though..
@@TotallyNormal- I don't stand on them, more just putting weight on them while I shift my body with my arms.
I have a 2 yr old f5 standing chair that. Showing ics legs error 2091 was wondering if you had seen that before thanks for these videos
that code is: Sensor; Cable between sensor and General Module; or GM is not working
not 100% sure what it means.. but i'd check the basics.. make sure wiring isnt pinched anywhere, and check connectors etc.. i know the standing chairs have a few extra switches and sensors, but i haven't had a chance to look at one in person yet :^/
I have a question but have mot found my answer.
My wife has a f3 permabil and the leg rest is stuck in the up position with error code ICS Leg error 209A flashing.
How do i get her leg rest to lower?
Thank you for any help
I’m looking all over the internet trying to adjust the actuator, my leg rest is too far out , so if I do some turns on the actuator it might work?
if its a permobil ya dont want to manually adjust anything! here's a video about calibration :^)
ruclips.net/video/qVQqpFc-hDM/видео.html
Hi, I'm only 4 foot 8 in tall so I'd rather the leg rests didn't extend, unless not doing so would cause some pelvic arm I'm not aware of, is there anyway I can make it so they don't extend?
usually ya need the leg rests to extend a bit otherwise the knees and legs end up being pulled up off the seat cushion when let rests are raised. most of the time when foot plates are set to the proper length the extension *should* be about right. in theory the spring loaded mechanism could be taken out from the bottom of the chair, and the adjustment strap cinched down to the appropriate length.. here's a video showing how that system works - - ruclips.net/video/SUqIWUcFB8o/видео.html
Thanks so much! I'm about to ditch my Pride 4front and purchase a Barely Used permobil M3. I was trying to figure out how to get the footplates to actually support my feet so that I can take bumps. My service person is a former 80P who used to work with Medicare and Medicaid who now sells wheelchairs privately. I'll share your video with him.
cool. I'd try the chair out first just to see how it fits.. there's a good chance it might be ok with the stock configuration. just get the height of the foot plates adjusted for ya with the cushion on the chair, and run the legs up and down a few times :^)
When I had a Permobil Street, my footrest fell off. That strap broke!
I need some advice on my batteries on my wheelchair. Sometime this month I'll be getting my first apartment and moving into it but in the nursing home I'm in they're not letting me use my electric wheelchair because I can walk in here (I can but it's really painful thanks to spina bifida and fatty filum) and I haven't used my electric wheelchair since August 2019. From the nursing home to the bus stop is 0.5 miles while from the bus stop to my apartment is 0.4 miles and the electric wheelchair were stored in a place where the outside elements (not rain or snow just the temperature) can get inside easily. From what I've said what are the chances of the batteries to fail on my way to my new apartment?
years back i was looking at living facilities, and they said the same thing.. they wouldn't allow my power chair.. said i had to use a manual chair.. so they're gonna make ya store it in a non-temperature controlled area? yea thats not the best for everything... if the batteries get super cold, they should be allowed to warm back up before using the chair (which can take 12-24 hours depending on the size of batteries)
@@TotallyNormal- yeah it's in a non temperature controlled area. I've already talked with the company that brought me the wheelchair and they did say that I would be able to replace them only when I live in my apartment but I'm worried about getting there from the nursing home when the day arrives.
"most" rehab chairs can handle 2-3 miles ok... assuming everythings workin ok on on it..
@@TotallyNormal- everything works well. That's good. So I should take caution when I'm moving between locations.