WHEELCHAIR REPAIR: Permobil F3/F5 Battery swap
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- Today we go over how to swap the batteries in a permobil F3 and F5 power wheelchair!
0:00 intro
1:56 cover removal
3:10 tray removal
7:32 disconnecting batteries
15:56 reinstalling batteries
18:59 top cover install
20:33 testing!
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I find myself always coming back to your channel. It’s great I’m buying a used wheelchair
I concur!
That was a really nice cheer with that sent you back initial cost of that
Thanks for putting that on. I’ve got an F5 to do tomorrow. Excellent.
This is a REALLY helpful video Dan. Very much appreciated. Great Job !!!
Great video, we will be at Knowledge Fest Thank you for the content
thanks legend, I am replacing batteries on Tuesday next week and this was bloody helpful
HI, Do you know if the F3 can take a bit different size battery? Still gel but different size, still 12V just different AH's?
the F3 can fit group 34 (approx 60Ah), and group 24 batteries (approx 70-80Ah)
Thanks, Very helpful.
Your videos are the best Thxs pal
Hello.
Thanks for showing and demonstrating.
greetings from Germany
Tommy
Hi Dan, interesting video. I like how you explain as you go along working on the chair. I’m still leaning towards the F5, but I’ll give the 4front a look for the guys sake.
i really like the m/3 F/3 chairs.man u lucked out,i hope to come across deal like that.hope u do extensive every day/all terrain reviews
I love your videos pal
Really like the video man! Also I think this would be a very good instructional video for wheelchair technicians if they haven’t had the chance to work on some of permobils newest products.
I agree.
Just did the video step by step pausing often . And rewinding often.
My issue was both batteries were dead!I
So was still able Remove with unit down .
Helped to remove the mistory.
Need to work out to lift those suckers!
Thanks for a very helpfull video,swedish quality no 1
Thanks again....
I am so glad that you do these vids, i am also in the same wheelchairs by Permobil (M300 and M3). The big question that i have is how do you get back up into your chair after working in the floor. I am already having shoulder problems. Thanks and keep up the great work.
If it helps, what I do is park the chair close to a stable surface. I'm my case a coffee table.I throw one leg over my seat, grab the chair arm furthest from me and using the coffee table to push up, and my other arm to pull, I can get into my seat.
Thanks the batteries are grp22
In theory activates hey siri
Thanks man , just changed out the batteries on my sister m3 spent about 500 on the batteries and about 10 min to install way better then what a wheelchair repair company was charging over 1,000 and it has been two weeks with no word from them smh and that’s that I told them I would pay cash not from insurance an they still pushed me away , sucks that these companies are money hungry and are real slow at service calls or parts of using insurance that sucks how they prioritize things obviously they make more money from insurance customers but take an eternity doing so and for a person with disability a wheelchair is a necessity that’s how they move they depend on it ! sorry for the rant lol
oh i totally understand!! glad ya got it taken care of!!
$500 for batteries???? I'm a tinker. into R/C. I got a use electric wheelchair for
$30 ( it didnt work). The batteries didnt want to charge. 12V 36ah ( cranking power ..exact replacement batteries are only $70-ea)
Did a little research....wiggle stuff around to make use the connecter were making connections..ect....Hook up 8S Lipo batteries 4.2 v x 8 fully charged.
33.2
The controller can operate on it ( becuase another simular model with 450watt
motors use the same ESC). Mine only have 350 watt motors...even thou the manual says 200 watt....anyways..I used a different charger to recharge the
stock batteries ( they were sitting for years..and the acid simply evaporated).
The batteries charge back up...so I can use to wheelchair's installed charger....
I tried 10S ( 40.2 V)...it's didnt work...The controller will flash to simply tell
me it's too much voltage...I tried 9s...still to high...it's above 36v
I have 6V acid batteries...laying around..The controller will operate UP to 36V
Fully charge acid 12v batteries will get up to 13V. So I CANT use 3x 13v (39V)
Im going install 2-ea 12 V and a 6V...to give the chair more gusto...or use 8 LIPO.lol...But there's 8s Li On battery packs for electric bikes for only
around $100 or less,NOW ...get lot for $500...swap packs or wire it up
so you can switch back and forth...for more RANGE.
LIPO are smaller and lighter MORE DISCHARGED POWER..recharge in less time..but they're a little more pricey. For $500...I would of had of 8s lipo with wazzooo range .lol
I only had enough to put 10000mah together ( $120)..I can drive the chair
for 15 mins none stop. 3 miles...probably...IDK..The motors or esc dosnt get hot.
The Wheel chair was almost brand new...It still had shipping plastic wraps
on it....It was just in storage
whats the brand of chair you got? ive been meaning to do a test and see what the max voltage the controllers will run on... 36v would liven things up quite a bit! one thing to consider with mobility devices - they dont just ramp up the voltage similar to standard ESC's or industrial drives.. they MAX out the amperage when you start moving from a stop - for a nice smooth linear start - the output curves are very interesting. thats why the wheelchair controllers are so big and have so many MOSFETs in them they see max amperage almost anytime ya move around. from a start you can spoke to 110 amps, then when up to speed, 25-35 amps depending on things. the controller also powers up the field wingdings in the motors - and keeps them powered up for 0.5 to 1.5 seconds after you stop moving. plus the regenerative braking that's mandatory for you to come to a stop. theres a lot of factors inside of these things..
but im happy to hear someone was trying higher voltages!!! im super curious to see what your final setup looks like!
@@TotallyNormal- Liberty 312...but is has 350 watts motors (EC82M245335ALOBL) The ESC is P&G VS 2 60A
I ve just been running it on the 8S lipo....2-ea 4s 5000 mah @ 50C x 2.
The wheel chair is heavy. It also has solid 10" back tires.
I was pulling 2 kiddies wagon with 4 kids and a baby..probably
300 lb plus total ( I my self weight 145lb)..The stock chair says 81 Lb.
It didnt have any heating issues. I test drove it 4-5 times...on 8 cells.
Reconidtioning the acid batteries at the moment.
I just made an adapter for the Lipo batteries.
( there;s no modifications to the esc/wheel chair...ect)
There's just 2 wires jammed tight and tape into the ESC Batteries input.
I didnt clip wires..ect I simply cable tie them out of the way.
It has decent speed..7-8 mph. It stops when I let off the joy stick..
might be a little fast for indoors. if you're not used to it.
but fun speed for the kids...outside.lol
I was keeping up with the kids on modify power wheels on 5s lipo ( 8 mph)
Well...my final set up would be stock ( so I can give it away) everything works on it.....However i plan on using the motors on a powerwheels with 13" pheumatic tires..Run it on 8s lipo with a GO kart ESC...with just forward and reverse 36V-42V go kart ESC...Im not sure what the amps are...
but some of the ESC on my R/C are in the 150A range 6s...
They go 60mph..easy...Yes Im awear you can program ESC
to different punch level or breaking..ect
I dont have the programming card to the wheel chairs ESC.
I 'll just put the motor back on the chair when the kids out grow the powerwheels...it wont get daily use...They might ride it once or twice p/week.
The power wheels will be lighter.Idk what the top speed will be with 13" wheels..
not much faster..under 10 mph for the kids will be fine.
Like I said ..I got it for only $35...but it's almost new( unused)
I'll make sure everything works when I give it away.
I would really like to know what one would need to do for the batteries and or wheelchair, and battery chargers should an EMP occur? Does a faraday cage need to be made for the chairs and chargers? Can they withstand?
Dan your a Life
saver 🤣 very helpfull video. Do you know any good online spare parts for permobil? Also do you know underneath the locking system with the 3/8 plate aftermarket or factory? Ill appreciate it. thanks 👍
I’ve already purchased the controller need someone to install it
That's odd I've got a two year old F3 it looks like total distance 1369 m I think it's miles gone gone through one set of front tires fixing to change rear still alive original batteries thanks for showing us the battery setup there again permobil quirky thanks for the info any information is helpful how you get your hand on all these permobil chairs and info it's like pulling teeth for me parts too way overpriced see if you can get ahold of a pacesaver let's see the quality of an american-built power chair thanks good video Stay careful
I'm also so shocked you use Pittsburg on your chairs, especially those t-handles!
having slightly off-sized allen wrenches can be SUPER handy! especially when working on stuff with older fasteners that are stripped, corroded or damaged.
also.. whats an 'off brand' tool gonna do? make the batteries start leaking somehow? lol
I can kindly ask you the abbreviation of the gel battery for the F5
and size
I thank you
The biggest frustration for me is screwing back together the battery bay shield. I feel as if I can never get all those slots to line up perfectly.
Really appreciate your videos! I just changed batteries on my f3 and now I can't get the cover back on. The rubber boots are hitting the cover. I have replaced these with these same batteries twice before. Can I run without the rubber boots or get rid of the washers¿????? Any ideas?????
Vern wallace
the batteries have to be the proper orientation.. and all of the cables lined up just perfectly.. im assuming you're installing group 24 batteries? they BARLEY fit in my old F3 lol the ridges in the top cover are for the battery screws to fit, and also the cables. took quite a bit of finagling to get everything in place.
also make sure you top cover is seated into place correctly before ya slide it back on.. it can pop underneath the little ledge that its supposed to be on top of fairly easily. good luck!
I have a question if anyone knows.. I have a f3 and the front wheels are making a ticking when rotated. I’m guess wheel barring?
I have an F# with a tilt error, any help would be appreciated.
You See, I own a 2019 Permobil F3 but I have no lighting on my chair and someone gave me a toy 12"
LED - light bar that is 12 volt or 24 volt I was going to put on above my headrest.
Do you recommend that or not ?
APatriot NowAwake I don’t think above the headrest is a good idea, it easily could be knocked off. Below is much better!
How manny hours is a f3 supposed to last mine last like 10 hours inisde a house and then i have to charge is that normal?
Question about secondhand powerchairs- my seat dimensions are really really tiny- can you adjust the seat size on these chairs?
Most permobil chairs in “standard sizes “ (assuming it’s 3G seating) can be adjusted width from about 17” to 23” (don’t quote me - but something like that lol) and depth can be adjusted as well If ya start getting less than 17” ish- then you’ll need pediatric seating. Hope this helps!
Totally Normal I’m 14 inch width, lol, so I’ll check that out!
yea - that's in the pediatric sizes then for sure. a lot of those (pediatric chairs) are slightly adjustable in that range as well.. but not sure of how much. BUT the power bases are identical to the bigger chairs FYI :^)
Can I use lithium battery for my permobil F3?
hey handy man, did you have any advise on how to dismantle V6 wheel, which has three really high torque on them? It's nice that F5 has sliding batteries system.
yes... a 3/8' drive or 1/2' drive impact, with allen sockets! it does not come apart easily!!
@@TotallyNormal- I try really high torque (30Kg), it didn't move. thanks anyway.
sometimes a big breaker bar works better than impact drivers.. theres GIANT nylock nuts in there.. i took mine to a tire shop and they had to use air tools.. electric impacts wouldn't cut it. the next time i had to take them apart, a 2 foot breaker bar worked nicely - BUT i think after removing the bolts the first time, it gets easier.. good luck!!
@@TotallyNormal- great idea, thanks
Hey my name Spiros I have permobil m5 can I put more big battery in it I need to no?
Can anybody tell me if the P 222 Powerchair good
I went to replace 2 batteries for our Permobil F3. They said they were 245 a piece. Is there a way to get them cheaper?
if ya look around online ya can find some sellers that ship a pair of the group 34 MK batteries for $350-375 ish with free shipping.. BUT if ya need the group 24 batteries - $245 each is about right..
Hi, after After accumulating 890 miles. Yes you heard me right 890 Miles, since November of 2018 on my permobil -F-3 power wheelchair. I'm about to replace the batteries on my power wheelchair just as you have in this video.
My question is : Approximately how long, how long,"how many hours did the first initial charge take. ?
If you could get. back to me, i would greatly appreciate it. But one thing, i know theres not many people that has accumulated 890 miles in less than three years on a,
Power wheelchair........
Take care........
i usually run 300 miles/month on average.. there are quite a few people who put lots of miles on their chairs :^) the initial charge wont take long. BUT you wanna make sure ya dont run the new batteries very low at all for about the first week, and plug the chair in ALL night, EVERY night! 8-10 hours of charging is important. some people look at the battery gauge on the chair, and others the lights on the charger.. and unplug it as soon as it turns green, or when the chairs battery gauge shows full. doing this will shorten the service life of the batteries quite a bit!
lead acid batteries need 1-2 hours of 'absorption charging' - this only happens after the light on the charger turns green.
also - dont skimp on GOOD batteries. MK power is the way to go!
@@TotallyNormal- Man this reply statement is very useful!!! I NEVER had anyone or any DME guys tell me about how these batteries charge and need a good overnight charging even after the light goes GREEN!!!!!. thank you. I have batteries back ordered (to be in Oct 1) for my chair, from my Permobil dealer, my current batteries in my 2020 are failing fast, i need to plug it in after 4 - 6 hours just running around my home doing. I leave it plugged in all night always, but I get batteries from Permobil. What are MK batteries? is there anything I can do to improve the batteries I'm using till I get replacements?
And needs a new battery
Is there a manual way to get to the batteries. My chair won't charge enough to lift the seat.
YES!!! i was actually working on a short video about that right now!! lol but i mentioned it in another video.. lemme find the clip real quick... skip to 26: 35 in this video (the link should take you to that time code) ruclips.net/video/3cQq-LfVfPk/видео.html
here's the new video! ruclips.net/video/qQitPa9j2NM/видео.html
Thank u.
A quick question :
If Someone wanted to put an LED light bar,
which would be 12 volt, Would the 2 batteries be able to handle that ?
( I I would really appreciate If someone could answer my question ? )
you'd want to run a 24 to 12volt step down (or buck converter) connecting accessories to ONE battery will get them out of balance and cause a bunch of issues. a lot of the light bars out there (especially from china) support 12 AND 24 volts right off the shelf though!
Yes, and Dan has a good point
At about 16:33 is the problem I'm having. It looks like you might have had the problem but edited it out of your video. When you're sliding the battery tray back in it doesn't go all the way but leaves about an inch. I discovered there's two small bolt tops that are blocking the tray from sliding in all the way. If you had this problem and fixed it that is what I'm trying to fix but I don't see in your video. Please let me know if you encountered that problem and how you fixed it. Thank you
didnt have any issues like that here... if there's bolts sticking thru on the bottom though, ya should be able to lift the battery box up a bit, or maneuver it around to get past them
Good night .......I'm very intereested in buying myself a wheelchair. And l like them quite pernobil . And l saw some Swiss-made chairs ( scewo Bro) that they really liked ( climb stairs)and other germán off-road (ziesel) impressive, but l was sad to know their prince.
Please tell me by a pernobil bet ween f3 and f5 what is the difference and which would you choose
F5 is an inch or 2 longer than the F3.. but it has faster motors, more aggressive tire tread, and a taller seat lift :^) they're essentially the same chair.. but F5 is faster, taller, and very slightly bigger.
@@TotallyNormal- Please tell me how much this chair is and how I can buy it.
honestly, I'd just keep an eye out for an F5 on ebay. they're EXPENSIVE! (anywhere from $20k - $30k brand new)
I seem them on ebay fairly often starting around $5-7000
@@TotallyNormal- I don't understand it's $30,000 new or on ebay they sell it for $57,000 I don't understand
30k new - and around 5000 to 7000 used on ebay
m3 or f3 that is the question . i put in a request for evaluation for a new chair . should know in a few days if approved for an evaluation then see which chair manufacturer will get the node . I am hoping that Permobile gets it. M3 or f3 what say you ? "i'm so confused"' !
depends on if you want mid wheel, or front wheel drive :^)
@@TotallyNormal- which one is better on steep ramps and potentially slippery surfaces?
probably the mid wheel drive.. theyre more stable.. (the M3)
fwiw i got to try both & personally found the m3 more maneuverable but it also was quite jarring on spine over larger sidewalk bumps vs. f3 kinda wants to fishtail/forklift more at higher speeds but dampens down the sidewalk cracks like no-ones business. both are really really good