So many people crapping on the 2210 purely for the fact that it has diodes, when they're the exact same people that use diode clipping pedals in front of a 2203 to do the exact same thing...
Have you looked at the preamp schematic differences? People use overdrives to boost the front end in a 2203. The diodes in the 2210 are in the middle of the preamp. To my ears they certainly do not sound the same. Well because they aren't too...
Sick video. Fun face off! Can’t go wrong with either, although I prefer my 2210 over my 2203. Maybe because I’ve had it way longer. I’m a sucker for that compressed dirt.
In the 2210, the best sound from the gain channel that I ever got was by switching the phase inverter tube and using a 12AU7 instead of the usual 12AX7/ ECC83. It lowers the volume ever so slightly,but also smooths out the spitty fizz that goes with many of these amps. Some say it is a darker sounding amp, but especially if you use single coils the 2210 is a great amp because it is more practical to use live when you msy use a clean sound for part of a song, and switch for a solo. Also the amp is more suited for moderate overdrive for dirty rhythm and classic rock lead tones may need extra line boosting from an overdrive unit to push the overdrive channel a bit further for solos, rather than turning up the gain on the amp, as that can be a brittle fizzy sound ; so moderate on the drive channel,with more gain from a pedal, and well set (separate eq) on the clean channel, the 2210 can be a great gigging amp, (I've used one for bar gigs, corporate functions, and private or club gigs, and slso used the equivalent combo version for many years. I get how some, who play mainly hard rock or metal, wouldn't like the smp, but depending on what you use it for, it can be the best possible amp.
The trick to setting up the 2210 is to set the channel volume at 9.5 the gain at 9 to 10 and barely crack the master but no more than 1. Put an overdrive in front of it with the level dimed and the gain barely on. Then you have a fire breathing beast.
I set mine a little less than your reco, and it sounds really good. The key is setting that channel volume so high and using the master at 1 at the most. I also have 6550 tubes and that makes a difference. @LeonTodd, did any of this work for you?
Tube Choice and a proper bias make a huge difference. I own a 2210 and that's what I've learned from experience. Sovtek, Groove Tube, Mullard, they all sound different. Also the pre-amp tubes play a role in the distortion characteristics. I know people say the 2204, but look at what Michael Schenker is playing through on almost any RUclips live video. Yep, 2210's. One flaw that can affect the od channel saturation sound; If you have the clean channel volume up, even while playing the od channel, it blends with the od channel, in effect ruining the gain you are aiming for. That's what I've noticed anyhow.
I'm surprised you suffer from that, that channel bleed issue should have been resolved for you by now. There are good mods to either improve it or completely remove the idea depending on how far you want to go. I fitted my own '89 2210 with proper MOSFET controlled relay switching to completely separate the two channels. Ridiculously cheap to do and not hard if you can make a tiny PCB. It gave me the opportunity to add a Green/Red LED to the channel selection too. I now have the only multicolour indicator 2210 out there!
This dude just isn't using it right. The 2210 is a beast. I run it into a 1960A with a mix of 25w Greenbacks and G12H 55 hz, it also loves V30's. I can nail Hendrix/Gilmour/Blackmore/Beck/Zappa/Sabbath and it screeeaaams with harmonic feedback!!! The 2203 needs pedals or mods to even get close. And it has a great reverb! The normal channel is a good platform for my '78 Muff.
2203 sounds great! I miss mine everyday I don’t have it anymore... 2210 is great sounding with the “proper” tube selection to be honest!! I have played a bunch of 2203s as well as the Reissues and every single one was different but amazing. I’ve played a ton of different 2210s as well and everyone of them sounded quite the same but good too. Some sounded a bit too fizzy, but some 2210s that had some very gorgeously, selected Mullard tubes sounded AMAZING! Big and punchy sounding more like a 2203 with more gain!! 2210 seems more modern to me too... 2203 seems more classic and still has a slightly modern tinge to it with pedals in the front...both are amazing for sure. My vote is 2203 though!!!!!
People get so crazy over all these editions, I think there all great in there own way. None of them sound bad. Personally I’d go with the 2205/2210 since I prefer 2 channels. I really wish Marshall would Reissue the 2205/2210 series! I think a lot more people than we think we buy them. I know I would.
Indeed I have to keep the treble and presence way down on mine There is a simple modd Premier Guitar posted that will help that Thinking about doing it myself
I have Svetlana tubes in my 2210 and I love it. OD/distortion pedals don’t help the tone, but a boost and/or EQ certainly does. I bought it used and there was a mod to “correct a common problem.” I’ll get details from my amp guy.
Your 2210 sounds nothing like mine brother. Got mine in 87 and it's got more bite and easy less boxy than the 2203 you tested here. I tried both too but didn't have chance to make a demo. I'd love to do a comparison with mine. Rock on dude!
I own both a 2203x and a mint 2210 from 1990. I love both of them and they are slightly different. The 2203x is dirtier and has a spongier feel while the 2210 is a little cleaner and stiffer feeling. Once you get used to playing it though, that amp sounds big.
Greasy hair slobs unite! Your 2210 tone is exactly what I tend to end up with when I try to dial in "traditional" JCM 800 tones, and I just end up returning to my Boogie sounds. This explains a lot.
A good 2203 is a lot cleaner than people expect, it's far more of a Plexi on steroids thing than a modern high gain sound. The AX8 Friedman and Atomica cover the Marshall stuff pretty well for me these days.
I could not believe there is such a large difference. Nice demo man answered my questions. I wont buy that one Jcm 800 after all. Gotta look for that other one
Both sound very similar and fine. Well at least in this demo they do!! But for mine, Marshall build a shitload too much of top end into almost all of their amps for whatever f'ing reason! My vision of Marshall's testing scenario is thus: 1.) place amp and cabinet in a seriously sound proof room 2.) drape 10 thick blankets over the speaker cabinet before placing recording mic in front of speaker 3.) make sure guy playing guitar through that amp NOT in same room! 4.) Make sure all guys monitoring have lost any semblance of top end in their hearing decades ago and are wearing industrial grade earmuffs 5.) Make sure guitar cable is lowest quality on the planet and 37 miles long 6.) Make sure guitar is on front pick-up with treble wound completely off then play some stuff 7.) Make record of monitoring guys concluding their testing & instructing amp tech, (cockney accent) "Nigel me ol' mate . . . Would you mind buildin' a mite more top end into the circuit please codger? It's frightfully dull!" All the backline hire co.'s in Australia carry the 2203. I'd fucking love to use them but am forced to lug my own 1970s Super Lead 100w Marshalls around. They've been modified to reduce possibility of cutting the heads off of the first 100 rows of people in the audience, not to mention the guy at the sound desk to whom the cabinets are invariably directly pointed . . .! And they STILL have all the top end, 6000DB less than the factory issue 2203, that you could ever want or need!
Played a 2210 for years, not really knowing how to get the most out of the amp. Now looking back I never did like how the amp felt to play. Was brittle and unforgiving. And was just too loud also.
So the “clean” channel is the regular channel sounds like your basic jcm800 2203, the boost channel is the diode clipping. So to compare keep your master volume appropriately set and use the unboosted channel otherwise you aren’t comparing apples to apples. Keep in mind many artist in the late 80’s we’re using pedals (tube screamer and such) infront of the amp as they want more gain, hence the boosted channel. I laugh so good when people say they use the boss od 1 pedal and the 2203 and in the same breath knock the 2210 for having diode clipping on the boosted channel.
You can tell by your playing you enjoy the 2203 more. I didnt even need to hear your thoughts. The JCM900 gets close.. but it never hits that JCM800 magic. In mix, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference if dialed in right. Have you tried a JCM900 SLX? Thinking you should sell that JCM900 and get a 2203.. get what inspires you. I just bought a 2203 for $1250 US.
Great video but this is where it just gets nit-picky lol they're jcm 800s, they're both top of the line some of the absolute best amps produced. I know some people really get fussy over things like compression or "fizz" and I suppose if you have the money and REALLY wanna chase the tone dragon I get it, but me as long as it sounds good i dig it!
Have you ever thought about adding a room mic to your recording/RUclips set up ? I’ve seen a lot of people do it and it really seems to add a lot of warmth......just curious. By the way, having a 2204 clone (good one) delivered today....so I’m revisiting these vids 👊🏻
Your 2210 doesn't sound right at all. Always keep the distortion knob cranked to get the diodes going, and the boost channel's volume high or dimed as well. It doesn't function the same way as a 2203. But I also do not hear the right tubes in there. V1 changes the sound drastically. Make sure it's stock and tinker with it. Also, the earlier models need a few mods.
What year (serial number) is the 2210 ? They changed the circuit starting in ‘87....’made them a little hotter. I personally played a “Z” serial numbered one (‘90-‘91) that I wish I would’ve gotten a year ago. So nasty.
I have a "Y" serial 2210, this baby is a real monster! (I'm use that amp with really good, old Marshall cabs. A JMP with G12-65s and a JCM800 with first generation T75s. These three Marshall gear together = unbeliveable great classic hard-heavy-rock-metal heaven setup.) Dreams come true sometimes.
Marshall uses diodes for clipping in the 2210. I saw the diagram. They save on one stage of valve 12AX7. It's a shame because it cooled the sound. He's too straight. That's a shame.
The 2203 sounded horrible.But just like any amp it all comes down to what kind of tubes you use.The 2210 is tricky pony when it comes down to the tube layout.Theres 3 tubes for the gain chanel V1,V3,V4, V2 is for the normal chanel only (87-90 models)and V5 phase inverter.So you have to"mess around"with V3&V4 as well to get a good sounding overdrive if you not happy with just changing the V1 preamp tube.And of course the phase inverter(V5)is very important as well for the power amp section.
You’re 2210 does not sound anything like mine. I have an 89 and it’s a beast, harmonics jump out and it doesnt sound as flubby as yours. But I do have my more power section loaded with 6550’s. Again comparing to the video recording to mine your 2210 sounds poopy IMO. Here’s me n my 2210 with a tele style guitar and sounds quite different than yours. ruclips.net/video/n62Cgmo7FQo/видео.html
@@tubo628 you are entitled to you opinion. But in the room there was nothing Wooley about it. And there is a clear difference even in shitty speakers between Leon’s and mine . Not saying mine is better just different. The 6550’s definitely added articulation to my 2210 as they are unforgiving. Also if you know 2210’s the way you set your gain , mAster vol ,and channel vol makes worlds difference tones.
So many people crapping on the 2210 purely for the fact that it has diodes, when they're the exact same people that use diode clipping pedals in front of a 2203 to do the exact same thing...
Don't get me started :p
Straight. Up.
Have you looked at the preamp schematic differences? People use overdrives to boost the front end in a 2203.
The diodes in the 2210 are in the middle of the preamp. To my ears they certainly do not sound the same. Well because they aren't too...
Sick video. Fun face off! Can’t go wrong with either, although I prefer my 2210 over my 2203. Maybe because I’ve had it way longer. I’m a sucker for that compressed dirt.
In the 2210, the best sound from the gain channel that I ever got was by switching the phase inverter tube and using a 12AU7 instead of the usual 12AX7/ ECC83. It lowers the volume ever so slightly,but also smooths out the spitty fizz that goes with many of these amps. Some say it is a darker sounding amp, but especially if you use single coils the 2210 is a great amp because it is more practical to use live when you msy use a clean sound for part of a song, and switch for a solo. Also the amp is more suited for moderate overdrive for dirty rhythm and classic rock lead tones may need extra line boosting from an overdrive unit to push the overdrive channel a bit further for solos, rather than turning up the gain on the amp, as that can be a brittle fizzy sound ; so moderate on the drive channel,with more gain from a pedal, and well set (separate eq) on the clean channel, the 2210 can be a great gigging amp, (I've used one for bar gigs, corporate functions, and private or club gigs, and slso used the equivalent combo version for many years. I get how some, who play mainly hard rock or metal, wouldn't like the smp, but depending on what you use it for, it can be the best possible amp.
The trick to setting up the 2210 is to set the channel volume at 9.5 the gain at 9 to 10 and barely crack the master but no more than 1. Put an overdrive in front of it with the level dimed and the gain barely on. Then you have a fire breathing beast.
i'll have to try that
I have a 2210 and i play exactly that Sound its fuckin amazing
I set mine a little less than your reco, and it sounds really good. The key is setting that channel volume so high and using the master at 1 at the most. I also have 6550 tubes and that makes a difference. @LeonTodd, did any of this work for you?
Tube Choice and a proper bias make a huge difference. I own a 2210 and that's what I've learned from experience. Sovtek, Groove Tube, Mullard, they all sound different. Also the pre-amp tubes play a role in the distortion characteristics. I know people say the 2204, but look at what Michael Schenker is playing through on almost any RUclips live video. Yep, 2210's. One flaw that can affect the od channel saturation sound; If you have the clean channel volume up, even while playing the od channel, it blends with the od channel, in effect ruining the gain you are aiming for. That's what I've noticed anyhow.
I'm surprised you suffer from that, that channel bleed issue should have been resolved for you by now. There are good mods to either improve it or completely remove the idea depending on how far you want to go. I fitted my own '89 2210 with proper MOSFET controlled relay switching to completely separate the two channels. Ridiculously cheap to do and not hard if you can make a tiny PCB. It gave me the opportunity to add a Green/Red LED to the channel selection too. I now have the only multicolour indicator 2210 out there!
This dude just isn't using it right. The 2210 is a beast. I run it into a 1960A with a mix of 25w Greenbacks and G12H 55 hz, it also loves V30's. I can nail Hendrix/Gilmour/Blackmore/Beck/Zappa/Sabbath and it screeeaaams with harmonic feedback!!! The 2203 needs pedals or mods to even get close. And it has a great reverb! The normal channel is a good platform for my '78 Muff.
Any suggestions to get close to what you're describing? Mine just sounds so flat and lifeless, even after a service and retube.
Leon Todd What kind of speaker are you using? Get a marshall 4x12 with greenbacks or vintage 30’s and it will sound magically!
2203 sounds great! I miss mine everyday I don’t have it anymore...
2210 is great sounding with the “proper” tube selection to be honest!! I have played a bunch of 2203s as well as the Reissues and every single one was different but amazing. I’ve played a ton of different 2210s as well and everyone of them sounded quite the same but good too. Some sounded a bit too fizzy, but some 2210s that had some very gorgeously, selected Mullard tubes sounded AMAZING! Big and punchy sounding more like a 2203 with more gain!!
2210 seems more modern to me too...
2203 seems more classic and still has a slightly modern tinge to it with pedals in the front...both are amazing for sure.
My vote is 2203 though!!!!!
Listening to this really makes me want to do some work on my 2210 to get it sounding more open.
Spot On!
Diode clipping on the 2210 might be at least partly why the raggety distortion.
I love my 2210 and 2205!
People get so crazy over all these editions, I think there all great in there own way. None of them sound bad. Personally I’d go with the 2205/2210 since I prefer 2 channels. I really wish Marshall would Reissue the 2205/2210 series! I think a lot more people than we think we buy them. I know I would.
2 channels and effects loop…. That’s some serious quality of life.
With an attenuator i.e. power break, 2210 is a beast hands down, shake the walls.
D Gaz, wish Id known this earlier. Got an ox box to tame it. Best thing ever
Thanks for this video comparison, The jcm 800 is really bright.
Indeed I have to keep the treble and presence way down on mine There is a simple modd Premier Guitar posted that will help that Thinking about doing it myself
I have Svetlana tubes in my 2210 and I love it. OD/distortion pedals don’t help the tone, but a boost and/or EQ certainly does. I bought it used and there was a mod to “correct a common problem.” I’ll get details from my amp guy.
Love the 03. Dont know why. Just like it more.
Your 2210 sounds nothing like mine brother. Got mine in 87 and it's got more bite and easy less boxy than the 2203 you tested here. I tried both too but didn't have chance to make a demo. I'd love to do a comparison with mine. Rock on dude!
EQ
I removed the triode clipping circuit in my 2210. Yes, the master/gain knobs are annoying to figure out.
how did you do that? and was it a fairly easy process? it'd be cool to make it switchable like the jubes have
2210s rule! I love them over the 2203s imo they should still be making them.
I own both a 2203x and a mint 2210 from 1990. I love both of them and they are slightly different. The 2203x is dirtier and has a spongier feel while the 2210 is a little cleaner and stiffer feeling. Once you get used to playing it though, that amp sounds big.
Diode clipping, two channels, reverb.... What's different between this and the JCM 900?
Love my 4212 (2205 combo), mind you it's modified quite a bit, but I still kept the diodes.
I have a 2205 that i got when they first came out in the 80's
Greasy hair slobs unite!
Your 2210 tone is exactly what I tend to end up with when I try to dial in "traditional" JCM 800 tones, and I just end up returning to my Boogie sounds. This explains a lot.
A good 2203 is a lot cleaner than people expect, it's far more of a Plexi on steroids thing than a modern high gain sound. The AX8 Friedman and Atomica cover the Marshall stuff pretty well for me these days.
I could not believe there is such a large difference. Nice demo man answered my questions. I wont buy that one Jcm 800 after all. Gotta look for that other one
I've 2210 from 1986.....amazing amp...
Yeah in a nutshell the 2210 pretty much sounds like a tube power amp section with a solid state pre amp comparatively. Valvestate territory?
Yes the 2210 has 1 diode bridge (4 diodes) and 2 more diodes in the middle of the OD circuit that cause extra clipping.
One of these is a great amp. The other is a 2210
I need to grab a 2203 and Plexi before they go extinct. Great amps
Me too
Also, should do a JVM video. Those things are just next level
Yeah that needs to happen!
Ugh i live 2203's.. bright, punchy, warm. One side on our record is my modded 2203. So musical..
Both sound very similar and fine. Well at least in this demo they do!! But for mine, Marshall build a shitload too much of top end into almost all of their amps for whatever f'ing reason!
My vision of Marshall's testing scenario is thus:
1.) place amp and cabinet in a seriously sound proof room
2.) drape 10 thick blankets over the speaker cabinet before placing recording mic in front of speaker
3.) make sure guy playing guitar through that amp NOT in same room!
4.) Make sure all guys monitoring have lost any semblance of top end in their hearing decades ago and are wearing industrial grade earmuffs
5.) Make sure guitar cable is lowest quality on the planet and 37 miles long
6.) Make sure guitar is on front pick-up with treble wound completely off then play some stuff
7.) Make record of monitoring guys concluding their testing & instructing amp tech, (cockney accent) "Nigel me ol' mate . . . Would you mind buildin' a mite more top end into the circuit please codger? It's frightfully dull!"
All the backline hire co.'s in Australia carry the 2203. I'd fucking love to use them but am forced to lug my own 1970s Super Lead 100w Marshalls around. They've been modified to reduce possibility of cutting the heads off of the first 100 rows of people in the audience, not to mention the guy at the sound desk to whom the cabinets are invariably directly pointed . . .! And they STILL have all the top end, 6000DB less than the factory issue 2203, that you could ever want or need!
I would have liked to hear the JCM 800 2210 on the normal channel, cranked. The Boost channel, I believe would aimed at Lead tone.
What's the riff at 2:13, Leon?
2204 is the single channel verticle input fifty watters correct Love mine but always forget the model number
Something going on with that split channel one....mine never sounded that woolly...
way too much treble and fizz on the 2203. Surprisingly i liked the 2210 more...despite the diodes, it was warmer
Played a 2210 for years, not really knowing how to get the most out of the amp. Now looking back I never did like how the amp felt to play. Was brittle and unforgiving. And was just too loud also.
So the “clean” channel is the regular channel sounds like your basic jcm800 2203, the boost channel is the diode clipping. So to compare keep your master volume appropriately set and use the unboosted channel otherwise you aren’t comparing apples to apples. Keep in mind many artist in the late 80’s we’re using pedals (tube screamer and such) infront of the amp as they want more gain, hence the boosted channel. I laugh so good when people say they use the boss od 1 pedal and the 2203 and in the same breath knock the 2210 for having diode clipping on the boosted channel.
Good afternoon! Cool sound! What can you say about the Marshall 6100 compared to the jcm 800?I am interested in your opinion. Thanks
i own 2210 and i love it has reverb plus it sound amazing....no need for 2203, without reverb...it sucks
Which fractal Ax8 would best compare to the 2210 ?
I’m trying to wrangle a brutal modern Marshall tone aka 808 out front
You can tell by your playing you enjoy the 2203 more. I didnt even need to hear your thoughts. The JCM900 gets close.. but it never hits that JCM800 magic. In mix, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference if dialed in right. Have you tried a JCM900 SLX? Thinking you should sell that JCM900 and get a 2203.. get what inspires you. I just bought a 2203 for $1250 US.
Great video but this is where it just gets nit-picky lol they're jcm 800s, they're both top of the line some of the absolute best amps produced. I know some people really get fussy over things like compression or "fizz" and I suppose if you have the money and REALLY wanna chase the tone dragon I get it, but me as long as it sounds good i dig it!
I hear Mick Mars tone. Nothing is better than a Marshall IMO
Have you ever thought about adding a room mic to your recording/RUclips set up ? I’ve seen a lot of people do it and it really seems to add a lot of warmth......just curious. By the way, having a 2204 clone (good one) delivered today....so I’m revisiting these vids 👊🏻
It definitely makes YT clips sound better, but I've never used it when recording guitars for a song. Having the option there isn't a bad idea though
i had the 2210 about 20 years ago. i think i sold it for $400.
Your 2210 doesn't sound right at all. Always keep the distortion knob cranked to get the diodes going, and the boost channel's volume high or dimed as well. It doesn't function the same way as a 2203. But I also do not hear the right tubes in there. V1 changes the sound drastically. Make sure it's stock and tinker with it. Also, the earlier models need a few mods.
Do you find a big difference between your Ax8 and a loaded down head with IR?
Keep up with the good videos. Like your playing and tones.
Thanks a lot. There's a subtle difference in most cases, it's more a workflow thing for me though. Sometimes I just want to play with knobs.
Any boost pedal?
What year (serial number) is the 2210 ? They changed the circuit starting in ‘87....’made them a little hotter. I personally played a “Z” serial numbered one (‘90-‘91) that I wish I would’ve gotten a year ago. So nasty.
I'll have to check!
I have a "Y" serial 2210, this baby is a real monster! (I'm use that amp with really good, old Marshall cabs. A JMP with G12-65s and a JCM800 with first generation T75s. These three Marshall gear together = unbeliveable great classic hard-heavy-rock-metal heaven setup.) Dreams come true sometimes.
Damm, 2203 sounds amazing, is it 2203x or an old one dude ? Btw great demos, im huge fan ,,, are you using attenuator ? Cause 100 w is f*ckin loud :D
Yeah it's a reissue.
In the johan segeborn comoarison I love the 2210 tone over the rest! ruclips.net/video/X-C8kDKoisI/видео.html
But here it indeed sounds way to docile
I bought a 2210 because of that video!
I had 2 Marshall 2210 full stacks back in the late 80s and never liked the sound completely. Just sounded to muddy for my style of playing.
Marshall uses diodes for clipping in the 2210. I saw the diagram. They save on one stage of valve 12AX7. It's a shame because it cooled the sound. He's too straight. That's a shame.
2 totally different amps.
2210 sounds crap just like the 2 I owned. 2203 sounds better clearer, way more open crunch.
The old JCM/JMP 2203 Marshalls sounds a lot better then the Reissue!
I have both, and it's not truth. I like reissue more then my old JMP 2203 '79
The 2203 sounded horrible.But just like any amp it all comes down to what kind of tubes you use.The 2210 is tricky pony when it comes down to the tube layout.Theres 3 tubes for the gain chanel V1,V3,V4, V2 is for the normal chanel only (87-90 models)and V5 phase inverter.So you have to"mess around"with V3&V4 as well to get a good sounding overdrive if you not happy with just changing the V1 preamp tube.And of course the phase inverter(V5)is very important as well for the power amp section.
great amps, wrong cabinet!
You’re 2210 does not sound anything like mine. I have an 89 and it’s a beast, harmonics jump out and it doesnt sound as flubby as yours. But I do have my more power section loaded with 6550’s. Again comparing to the video recording to mine your 2210 sounds poopy IMO. Here’s me n my 2210 with a tele style guitar and sounds quite different than yours. ruclips.net/video/n62Cgmo7FQo/видео.html
6550's you say - might have to call my tech!
I saw that video. To my ears it sounds same as wooly as Leon's 2210.
@@tubo628 you are entitled to you opinion. But in the room there was nothing Wooley about it. And there is a clear difference even in shitty speakers between Leon’s and mine . Not saying mine is better just different. The 6550’s definitely added articulation to my 2210 as they are unforgiving. Also if you know 2210’s the way you set your gain , mAster vol ,and channel vol makes worlds difference tones.
2210
2210 all the way!
Doesn't represent the tone my 2210 gets.
My smokes.