After discovering Euge Valovirta on RUclips I got a JCM800 (the studio classic version), a Boss SD-1 and dusted off my EMG equipped Les Paul. Now I don't need anything else anymore.
@@JohnWiku I think he runs his master around 4.5, mentioning a change in character from that point on. I dont have the real deal, but I love my Jim Root Jazzmaster (solid mahogany body) with EMGs into a boosted Mercuriall Spark JCM800 plugin with T-75s / Greenbacks / V30s. Still playing around with the speaker types a lot. And Mr Euge's word is my guidance
After discovering Euge I got the stealth JCM800 studio classic. I slapped an SD-1 in front but was massively disappointed. I felt it lacked a lot of low end and didn’t like the high end. Ultimately ended up selling it.
Zakk Wylde did pretty well with a JCM800 and SD-1 and EMG's.. Euge has his tone defintely refined.. those Scandinavian 800's have some sort of death wish.. he blows them with the master past 4..
The 2203 is basically a jumpered Plexi with a cold clipper stage, that's why it sits so firmly between the classic rock and high gain amplifiers. Mike Soldano accidentally discovered that you get even more gain by using a larger cathode resistor on the cold clipper and thus the modern high gain amp was born.
Yes, colder cold clipping produces more distortion, asymmetrical clipping by severely clipping just half of signal, keeping the other half of it fairly clean, it doesn't have more "gain". Actually, that "gain" stage produces less gain than a "proper" gain stage. The SLO has an added gain stage over the 2203, a colder cold clipper, and that's what you need to step into "high gain".
@@JohnWiku That's true, but I meant to say that the discovery of the colder cold clipper apparently was a happy accident, Mike Soldano discovered it by mistake.
Long jcm800 2203 owner here... It drove me crazy because it didn't give me Slayer type of saturation. The tricks are: -hot pickups ( even better emg81) -boost slightly with a ts9 (not the usual way with 0 drive and max volume but instead a bit of gain and volume at 7) -eq after the od, cutting the lows and boosting slightly 400hz and 800hz, cutting 1.6k, increasing a bit the general volume but, again, not maxed) -presence never past 7, bass less than half (I use 2 when alone) mids between 4 and 8 (depending on the speakers or your taste, Jeff Waters used 4 with t75's for the first 4 albums), treble less than half (I use 2-3), preamp gain 10 or slightly less. -good tight dark speakers like g12-65's or old t75's (avoid v30's, gh30's and similar) -raise the master as much as you can or use an attenuator. If you're lucky enough to have a good sounding specimen you're done. Also, if you have the reissue with the efx loop, use a 10 band eq and a noise gate there! Good luck and have fun.
as for speakers, i happen to have a jcm800 cab with 1983 date code t75 speakers (first production year i think). some tube screamer clone should do the trick for the ts9 and my mxr 10band eq for the eq pedal. now all i need is the amp xD
@@apacheworrier3776 this is a really weird place to out yourself, but yeah, sure. just remember to wash that pillow case before trying to sleep on it again. Those burning crosses give off a lot of soot.
@@needsLITHIUM Minorities commit nearly 65% of all violent crimes, while only making up 13% of the population. I got that from the FBI crime statistics page. Is the FBI racist, or is anyone who can read their website racist?
I’ve had a 2205 for about 10 years now and it’s by far my favorite amp. It does have its issues; channel bleed and not the greatest fx loop. However, the tone is worth it. Also, if you are using an overdrive, the channel bleed doesn’t matter because it blends it in. And as long as you keep your input and outputs clean it’s usually good to go. I run the gain at 10, treble at 2 or 3, mid at 5 or 6, and bass at 10. People always wanted to know how I got my tone and that was the key.
@user-ij5ny6uc9f Michael Amott from Arch Enemy uses a 2210 boosted with a TS9. He also posted about pulling his HM2s out of storage a while back but not sure if they're meant to replace the TS or not
I could never get use to the the pre and post on the 800 comparably. the 900 is the one with the independent Gain knob and the 800 is not. I guess with out a loop and the lack of extra circuit buffers that the 900 uses accounts for more powered head room for the eight hundred. Id like to be good enuff to make an 8oo sound good but i cant. ( Yet )
There's at least a couple different 2210 circuits. My understanding is the early and late ones are quite different so it could be that you had one of the "good ones". Totally Rad Guitars does a great technical rundown on them.
The 2203/2204 is like a different beast depending on where that master volume is at. It's stupid loud, but after like 6 into 7/8 territory it gets massive. I have a captor x with the volume switch in the middle at all times to keep it in the range that doesn't kill all small animals within a 5 mile range.
@@robertstan2349 They certainly sound awesome cranked but I never thought they sounded bad even at bedroom volume. Cranking both volume pots usually gets too compressed and too bassy so realistically when you go to 10 on the master you have to dial back the preamp or use a treble boost.
Thank the almighty above than I have a 2203 with the Monomyth Skeleton Key mod!! Problem solved!! Brutality at it's best but can also be warm and fuzzy. Zero need for a boost/OD pedal whatsoever. I love it!!
The other thing is: 2210 can do it both. You can get those high gain tones out of it AND also really good low gain tones (…) 😇😁😉. I got both: 1985 2203 and 1986 2210. Different. But 2210 is in no way inferior to the 2203 imo. I do particularly like the 2203 with an SD-1.
@@apacheworrier3776 Lol... a 12AX7 is a 12ax7, there are no "low or high gain" ones, the differences are so subtle that you won't be able to tell them appart in a blind test
@@SociopatheAssume The right 12ax7 in V1 and V2 of these and many other amps can make a significant difference in sound. My 4104 and SLO have an RFT in V1, great tube for more gain.
Would love to hear the 2203 compared to the silver jubilee. I've heard people describe the jube as a 2203 with more gain and a more powerful EQ. I have a Jubilee I absolutely love... but never owned a 2203 haha
I’ve had both and sold the silver. Still prefer my 2204 after 15 years after comparing it to a lot of amps(I have some comparisons on my channel). The Silver is more compressed, more „squished”, smoother in the mids (although the mid knob is extremely powerful) and can have more lows than a jcm 800. But no one needs more lows than a jcm 800 produces… and that spark isn’t there…
The silver jubilee is a completely different thing. The circuit is totally different. Dave Friedman has been telling people that for years but I guess no one pays attention. Both are great but not the same. I like the jubilee distortion better but it’s more of a one trick pony than the jcm800.
the Jub is more compressed tone. It's not as open. I've had both and much prefer the 800. Althought I still like the Jub. The 800's were almost on all recordings back in the day. Jub's were NOT. Hwever nowadays the Jub's are getting much well deserved loved and used more and more than ever.
I bought the jcm 800 half stack for 800$ when I was 15… 35 years ago. It was amazing. I had the 2203. It had 6550’s and was fucking amazing. Absolute life regret selling it.
I was in 80s UK thrash band Hydra Vein, and I used a boosted 2203 or 2204 all through the 1980s. It was either boosted with a Boss SD1 or a Rozz Parametric EQ. Absolutely killer amps to cut through the mix. Regret selling all of them in the early 90s for peanuts.
In the Marshall documentary there was that Iron Maiden basically saved the whole company. Marshall was basically on the brink of bankruptcy, because punks did not use tube amps. But then came Maiden, and everyone wanted a Marshall again. Probably the 2203 is exactly from that period.
Judas Priest was just as much or more influential. But Marshall was still riding high in the glory days of power metal (80-83) thanks to Van Halen and Randy Rhoads though neither played a master volume JMP or JCM800
If Marshall was on the brink of bankruptcy, I doubt it was because of the punks (who did use tube amps, Marshall included). Probably had more to do with the UK’s economic woes, their distribution deal with Rose Morris ending, and/or unsuccessful products like the Club and Country.
@@ro307805Interestingly, the non-master volume models seemed to be more popular with the pros at the time. Look at, say, Judas Priest’s back line at the US Fest. That’s all JCM 800 Super Lead models, not 2203. Yet many don’t know that Marshall did in fact make non-master volume JCM 800s. A Distortion+ and an EQ into a Super Lead was the sound of British heavy metal.
I have an ‘89 2210 and it rips! I run a 10 band MXR EQ in the effects loop and hit the front with an SD1 over drive. Great tone both 90’s rock, thrash, metal. Yes, pick ups do make a difference in tone with my 2210 as well.
I don't have marshall amp, but i use pedal distortion base on jcm 800, boost with od base on ts 808, my guitar ibanez rgr 321 ex, and i love the sound😊, add delay for the lead
I had a 2210 in the late 90’s and loved it. It’s picky about how to best dial it in but great. I have a 2203 JMP MkII and also love it. So much of my favorite tones have been made with the 2203, it’s just the quintessential rock/punk/metal tone to me.
One thing that makes this amp great is that they are very very dynamic compared to ultra compressed modern amps, they sound very raw and are quite versatile once you know how to tame the beast. Sounds great non boosted too and becomes massive when the volume is past 9-10 o'clock, add boost, turn down the bass a bit and BOOM ! cuts right through the mix. If you can find a matching G1265 cab, you'll be in the golden era of rock heaven, use it with a V30 cab and get more modern tones. True that the channel switcher sounds a bit more modern.
I think it’s worth noting how every jmp/800 sounds drastically different. I have a 2203 of each jmp and jcm800. They’re the Canadian versions which are ever so slightly different but they can get fairly high gain with a simple overdrive.
Pickups absolutely make a difference. I installed Seymore Duncan Black Winters in my Jackson Kelly and it totally changed the tone (for the better, the stock pickups were microphonic)
I’ve owned both, the 2210 had w lot more gain but also sounded badass as well, never understood the hate. Love the 2203 too, sold it for a RedBear MK120 and now I’m set for life.
Nice content and delivery! My ear subjectively prefers Celestion Vintage 30's paired with a 2203/2204 rather than greenbacks which were not as tight ...
2210 for sure, but you really have to do a lot to get them to sound good. Louise Torres used a plug in mod for his that added a second preamp tube and it made it sound a ton better. That might be what a person has to do to get a good tone without modding too much or using super expensive boost pedals
That is just kind of how was with most of the stock amps available at the time. When I played my 2210, I used a boost in front and eq in the loop. Had to do the same with my Rev G dual Rec. Now, at that time (late 90's/early 00's) there were obviously Soldanos, VHT/FRYETTE, Bogner, etc but most gigging musicians could not not afford them so they worked with amps like jcm 800's, which were cheap a widely available.
Not a JCM but I have a Friedman Runt 50 that's pretty close, and I have the legendary tones Mr. Scary mod and it rips. I play in a metalcore band and play pretty much straight in or with an SD-1 in front and it sounds so fucking good, I get compliments on it. It doesn't have as much gain as a 6505/5150 type amp but to me that just makes it sound tighter in a mix, especially since i tune to drop A. I play it through a mesa 4x12 with 2 DV77's and 2 CV75's
I think the 2210 is a fine sounding amp. For the money though, in my opinion, you might as well save $1000 and just get a JCM 900. They were the same concept, but executed better. I think they are hands down the best value if you want a Marshall. You can kind of get the best of both worlds with the 4100/4500. There's no diode clipping in the "A" channel of the dual reverbs and IMO it hangs with the 2203/4's. They were still using Dagnall and Drake transformers in the 90's. Underrated amps. Reliable too.
It's just like with my little mg 30 FX the bottom shelf lamp. It sounds better when you run your overdrive on the clean channel read mode and on the the green channel on the overdrive button.. I I have a sd1 and an mxr Zakk Wylde overdrive.. on the overdrive channel in the green mode it has a lot more top end like wider sound. But you run your overdrive pedal on the heavy red mode overdrive sounds great too it's tighter.. but I think you can get some heavier crunch and chugging sound from overdrive green channel with your pedal dang it now I'm going to plug in and test it all again LOL I do think you get a little more out of it when you have it on the clean channel with the game turned up. When I run it on the heavy channel I turn my game back a little bit on the amp and crank up the gain on the pedal.
I've had both at the same time. The 2204 has a thicker tone to it more punch. Stock less gain however with a pedal it rips. Got rid of the 2205 kept the 2204. Now a days I put a HOT MOD V2 in the 2204 and has more than then one will ever need and not pedals anymore.
The fact that these amps sound great for Dad Rock or boosted with a modern OD for crushing modern metal tones is a testament to the greatness of their circuits. Jim Marshall knew what he was doing.
2203 boosted for the W IMHO. A bit more bark, timbre, and depth (thicker without being too flubby) along with this woody kerrang I love. Another great vid Kyle. Love ya dude💪🙏 \m/
My 1984 4104 with 6550s is the best sounding out of the many JMP&JCM 2204s/2203s I've had. My fav JMP 2204 sounded HUGE and tight with the volume around noon, but too loud. Shoulda kept it and the JMP2203. These amps take any boost that shaves off low end great for the hard n heavy stuff: treble booster, TS, SD1, Barber LTD/GC/BU, EMS, Klon, KOT, Fulldrive, etc. Fav is Timmy/Tim. 90s GBs with 6402 cones are darker than current GBs. They open up when you put volume on them, much like G12-65. I prefer the current GB ri.
I have a '79 JMP 2203. These reissue 2203X are really thin and harsh in comparison to the actual vintage ones. Besides of that, you really need to push the power amp section. You will get a lot of saturation, which gives these amps the amount of gain and a nice complex gainstructure.
i played metal for years with the 4212 (which is just the 2210 in a combo) and no extra distortion or gain was ever required. people can talk shit about it all they want, but no one who ever heard it didnt have to go see what it was because they coulndt believe it. ive owned other 800s and not all the ones you want. You gotta have that master volume setup and crank the gain and pre volume. EQ optional, mine never sounded thin, but maybe if your pickups arent as hot I guess i dunno. I used the stock bill lawrence originals in my custom 89 and its never wanted for power and tone. and the clean was amazing too. had 2203's and its basically ACDC tier unless you buy something cool like an ADA MP1, or do the preamp mods people did to them
I’ve already have a 2203X so I would pick the 2210 because i want to have both. Personally I like to boost my 2203 with the Hexdrive I just ordered a Grim 3 and I can’t wait to plugged it in front
There is a crazy buzzing sound when you’re talking! Great video though, I have a high gain modded 1989 2210 and I love it! But I have to have a pretty aggressive boost in the front for it to be usable for heavy stuff
I was wondering since i own the Peavey Bandit 112 teal stripe from 1992 and being poor it is the best amp i've ever owned and want to know how you feel your Peavey Supreme 160 measures up to the mighty Marshall 2203 or 2210 as i know the Supreme 160 is solid state vs Marshall tube 800s but i am curious about how you think if at all for cheap if they compare at all as i feel my teal stripe Bandit does not need a boost to get into metal territory as the 800s do but i have never played a JCM 800 before unfortunately and would love to hear your take on both the Peavey and Marshall if you have an interest in the future and thanks for your very informative videos Kyle
Love the Marshall JCM800 / 900 clean channel, but I prefer my OG EVH 5150 and MESA dual Rec for hi-gain 🤷♂️ …guitar straight to head, no boosts, no unwanted feedback, no problem
Thank fucking God someone cleared this shit up. Love the 2204/2203 but it’s not a modern high gain amp. Also not a single amp sim I’ve tried actually sounds like one, and I think that’s where it gets confusing all the jcm800 amp sims have way too much gain.
Here’s the best thing from any forum around Marshall’s. “That amp doesn’t have enough gain for metal” also “most of your favorite metal guys are using much less gain on their records than you think”
yup,and play razor sharp so quadrupling doesn't sound like mudslide. you could put Bill Steer's Heartwork guitars thru mg10 and it would slay any modern metal.
Fascinating video, thanks for putting it together. Learned a lot as a non-Marshall dude who just wandered by. My only critical feedback is that 100% of the tones in this video are indeed dad rock tones. Thank u and goodnight!
I played death metal on a 87 jcm 800 100wat lead series for 15 yrs and it kicked ass! Bass 10,mid 3 treble 6 prescence 4 and crank the bass on the clean channel mid 0 treble 0
i have a 1984 2204 and its a monster with a boost in front of it. i have a tube screamer on full and i get a lot of people surprised an 800 can sound so mean
You should throw a VTM on that stack too to see how much power tubes really matter. You showed me how awesome that anp is and it’s 100% scratched my 2203 itch.
Nice epi. Back in my day, it wasn't so much the Marshall amp, it was what OD you put in front of it. It was either a Tube Screamer or a BOSS SD. "Apples to Oranges"..........
2203 all the way...just add a eq pedal in the loop and some form of overdrive in the front...good to go... i do the same in my original rockerverb 50 and it wakes up and tightens up
I don't want to take the credit because I know you probably get hundreds if not thousands of replies every day on your channel, but a bunch of months ago I made a comment about using different pickups and speakers than the Duncan Distortion and V30 combo, and now I see that you're doing that, which is sweet. You also replied to my comment, which made me feel super special lol. From one Kyle to another, your channel is great. I love watching these videos. EDIT: Those Fishman active pickups sounded amazing. I'd still love to hear something with DiMarzio pickups, the Super Distortion is my all time favourite bridge pickup. Or a Gibson 500T. Those two pickups are crazy.
Legendary amps, but with so many real high gain options like the Engl Fireball, Savage, Peavey 6505 Original, etc., it’s much easier and more effective to get metal sound from these models.
And You can never have a 2203 boosted sound with a Fireball or any Engl amp or with a 6505. I know what i’m talking about because I have all the amps you mentioned and even more.
Both sound really good. Although I personally always preferred amps with minimum knobs and a simpler circuit. FYI I turn the Master up all the way + not too much gain boosted with a TS or a Rat, relying more on the power amp section.
All the ones I’ve had needed at least 2 boosts to get where I want them. (SUPER tight thick & chunky) Also used lynch mod plus a hex drive on one that sounded great, but made me question why I just didn’t get a higher gain amp to start with lol
I played a 2210 coupled with a KMD 4x10 in the late 20th century 😆 and I never had to boost that amp 😆😆 you really have to crank this amp to have decent headroom and that's when it shines. Also the more you play these amps the more you get to use less gain because it adds a bright upper mid sweet spot which is tone heaven 😆
Very similar. The 900 may have a very, very slight bit more gain but definitely not high gain by today's standards. And you definitely still need a pedal in front for hard rock/metal lead tones.
I've long been a Marshall fan (since the 70s, before I even picked up a guitar) and am digging this video. Alas, I sold my JCM 800 half stack long ago, but I now have a Marshall DSL combo and it has that excellent Marshall crunch. Honestly, I'd be happy with either of those two setups...
JCM900 is what you're wanting to hear when you play an 800. it's all dad rock all the time. the 900 is the heavy one and if you're lucky you can score a JCM900 SL-X
Boosted 2203 all day. And I freakin love those greenbacks, man. Those might be my favorite speaker. Great content, thank you for all this effort man, it's greatly appreciated.
Man, as someone new to guitar and looking for a specific tone for a project I'm working on with better guitarist's than myself, I loved the sound of the 2203 boosted at the beginning. Specifically for drop d or drop c traditional hardcore riffs. I might have to buy myself a Marshall now. Great video!
I've never had a 2210 that sounded scooped because of a lack of low-end. Mostly because scooped means boosted lows and highs, and the mids sound scooped out.
I had JCM 800 Split Channel with Booster 1ooW 4xEl34 2x12 Spring Reverb Combo - guitar straight to amp, no pedals, and I'm not metal player by any means 😁 great amp, lots of sustain definitely and very punchy
Great comparison, I really appreciate you walking though the whole process of getting these tones through these amps! I wonder what these sound like compared to the Jvm410 od1 and od2 channels that are modeled after the hot or scooped jcm800
Evening Kyle. My question is do you run the overdrive peddle through the effects loop? Or in front of the amp. It's something that doesn't seem to get addressed much anywhere. Thanks man.
Dude talks about 'slamming the front with signal' to get into more modern territory. I think it's safe to say that for this demo the pedals were between the guitar and the amps input.
Being a big fan of Power Trip and Fugitive a 2203 has become my dream amp but I'm broke haha. An 800 with a tube screamer is just such a simple and old school sounding tone that i can't get enough of
Great comparison. Something I would love is a comparison between a JCM 800 and a Splawn (Quickrod or Competition or something like that). And for the record the 2203 sounds better in this video! The 2210 is a bit too boxy on its own, though it might sit a bit better in the right mix.
Thing is the term "high gain" amp seems to have a bit of misunderstanding imo. The 2203 is a high gain amp but is not a modern metal "high gain" without a boost. Soldano and other higher gain amps have more gain stages then the 2203
After discovering Euge Valovirta on RUclips I got a JCM800 (the studio classic version), a Boss SD-1 and dusted off my EMG equipped Les Paul. Now I don't need anything else anymore.
Don't forget CRANKED, he runs reactive loads, so the master volume is fairly open!
@@JohnWiku I think he runs his master around 4.5, mentioning a change in character from that point on. I dont have the real deal, but I love my Jim Root Jazzmaster (solid mahogany body) with EMGs into a boosted Mercuriall Spark JCM800 plugin with T-75s / Greenbacks / V30s. Still playing around with the speaker types a lot. And Mr Euge's word is my guidance
Euge also has the modd in his too...bad boy...lol 😂
After discovering Euge I got the stealth JCM800 studio classic. I slapped an SD-1 in front but was massively disappointed. I felt it lacked a lot of low end and didn’t like the high end. Ultimately ended up selling it.
Zakk Wylde did pretty well with a JCM800 and SD-1 and EMG's.. Euge has his tone defintely refined.. those Scandinavian 800's have some sort of death wish.. he blows them with the master past 4..
The 2203 is basically a jumpered Plexi with a cold clipper stage, that's why it sits so firmly between the classic rock and high gain amplifiers. Mike Soldano accidentally discovered that you get even more gain by using a larger cathode resistor on the cold clipper and thus the modern high gain amp was born.
Yes, colder cold clipping produces more distortion, asymmetrical clipping by severely clipping just half of signal, keeping the other half of it fairly clean, it doesn't have more "gain". Actually, that "gain" stage produces less gain than a "proper" gain stage.
The SLO has an added gain stage over the 2203, a colder cold clipper, and that's what you need to step into "high gain".
@@monkeyrater there are only two current plexi reissues from Marshal, 1987x or 1959x. I have the 1959x; because more is more.
@@zoomzoom3950 the JTM45 has a 20 watt resissue, as does the 1959.
That’s part of it. Different gain stages in those amps.
@@JohnWiku That's true, but I meant to say that the discovery of the colder cold clipper apparently was a happy accident, Mike Soldano discovered it by mistake.
Long jcm800 2203 owner here... It drove me crazy because it didn't give me Slayer type of saturation. The tricks are:
-hot pickups ( even better emg81)
-boost slightly with a ts9 (not the usual way with 0 drive and max volume but instead a bit of gain and volume at 7)
-eq after the od, cutting the lows and boosting slightly 400hz and 800hz, cutting 1.6k, increasing a bit the general volume but, again, not maxed)
-presence never past 7, bass less than half (I use 2 when alone) mids between 4 and 8 (depending on the speakers or your taste, Jeff Waters used 4 with t75's for the first 4 albums), treble less than half (I use 2-3), preamp gain 10 or slightly less.
-good tight dark speakers like g12-65's or old t75's (avoid v30's, gh30's and similar)
-raise the master as much as you can or use an attenuator.
If you're lucky enough to have a good sounding specimen you're done.
Also, if you have the reissue with the efx loop, use a 10 band eq and a noise gate there!
Good luck and have fun.
NAILED IT.
as for speakers, i happen to have a jcm800 cab with 1983 date code t75 speakers (first production year i think). some tube screamer clone should do the trick for the ts9 and my mxr 10band eq for the eq pedal. now all i need is the amp xD
Marshall had a kerry king sig 2203 with a gate and pre amp eq built in, not too many built sadly
Bass, Mids, and Treble maxed out, it brings out the full character of your amp and creates the best tone for live shows
@@helio1055 yes, if you want a shrill farting sound because you're deaf and need all those highs and bass to "feel" the tone.
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT ABOUT MY UNCLE MATT
Your uncle isn’t a racist. He just knows how to read crime statistics.
@@apacheworrier3776 this is a really weird place to out yourself, but yeah, sure. just remember to wash that pillow case before trying to sleep on it again. Those burning crosses give off a lot of soot.
🤣🤣
@@needsLITHIUM
Minorities commit nearly 65% of all violent crimes, while only making up 13% of the population. I got that from the FBI crime statistics page. Is the FBI racist, or is anyone who can read their website racist?
@@needsLITHIUMbahahahahaha
I’ve had a 2205 for about 10 years now and it’s by far my favorite amp. It does have its issues; channel bleed and not the greatest fx loop. However, the tone is worth it. Also, if you are using an overdrive, the channel bleed doesn’t matter because it blends it in. And as long as you keep your input and outputs clean it’s usually good to go. I run the gain at 10, treble at 2 or 3, mid at 5 or 6, and bass at 10. People always wanted to know how I got my tone and that was the key.
Zak Wilde did a small concert where I live and I was shooting the concert, I noticed he was using a JCM800 with an OD. His music is heavy as hell.
He's always used 800s except for a brief time when he had a rack setup
Yeah he smashes the front end with an OD and EMG 81 pickups. So it's basically a double boost.
At the start he boosted it with a SD1 and after with a MXR ZW44 which is basically a modified SD1.
@user-ij5ny6uc9f Michael Amott from Arch Enemy uses a 2210 boosted with a TS9. He also posted about pulling his HM2s out of storage a while back but not sure if they're meant to replace the TS or not
Kerry King from Slayer uses JCM 800's and EMG 81 pickups too. I'm sure he uses an OD boost as well, but Idk what it is.
I never understood the hate for the 2210. I gigged with mine a ton in several different metalcore bands and sounds amazing.
Yep. Same here. Have lots of more “high end” amps but it still does it’s own thing really well. Saturated barking.
I could never get use to the the pre and post on the 800 comparably. the 900 is the one with the independent Gain knob and the 800 is not. I guess with out a loop and the lack of extra circuit buffers that the 900 uses accounts for more powered head room for the eight hundred. Id like to be good enuff to make an 8oo sound good but i cant. ( Yet )
The 2210 has always been a killer amp and is sort of the platform Scott Splawn based the Nitro on.
There's at least a couple different 2210 circuits. My understanding is the early and late ones are quite different so it could be that you had one of the "good ones". Totally Rad Guitars does a great technical rundown on them.
They sound weird by themselves, but amazing in a mix I've noticed.
2210 is without a doubt my favorite live amp. Even with t75s.
Owned one for 30+ years.
Agree wholeheartedly.
The 2210 is my favorite amp. 2205 second best.
Kyle, you look like you're getting ready to build the best quality 3 story bird house from scratch.
I don’t know what that means, but I love it.
The 2203/2204 is like a different beast depending on where that master volume is at. It's stupid loud, but after like 6 into 7/8 territory it gets massive. I have a captor x with the volume switch in the middle at all times to keep it in the range that doesn't kill all small animals within a 5 mile range.
the amps don't really start to shine until you push the power section
@@robertstan2349 They certainly sound awesome cranked but I never thought they sounded bad even at bedroom volume. Cranking both volume pots usually gets too compressed and too bassy so realistically when you go to 10 on the master you have to dial back the preamp or use a treble boost.
IMO master volume past 7 almost always sounds muddy and bad.
1-4 is the sweet spot.
"Racist Uncle Rock Tone"... I can't even find the words to describe how funny that is to me
Thank the almighty above than I have a 2203 with the Monomyth Skeleton Key mod!! Problem solved!! Brutality at it's best but can also be warm and fuzzy. Zero need for a boost/OD pedal whatsoever. I love it!!
I'm partial to the 2204 circuit. The JMP version, in particular. Toss a Boss SD-1 in front as a boost and you'll be golden.
The thing is: Boosted 2203 can do it both. You can get those high gain tones out of it AND also really good low gain tones and everything in between.
The other thing is: 2210 can do it both. You can get those high gain tones out of it AND also really good low gain tones (…) 😇😁😉.
I got both: 1985 2203 and 1986 2210. Different. But 2210 is in no way inferior to the 2203 imo. I do particularly like the 2203 with an SD-1.
The difference in gain on this video is probably different pre amp tubes.
@@apacheworrier3776100% not. they are two different circuits
@@apacheworrier3776 Lol... a 12AX7 is a 12ax7, there are no "low or high gain" ones, the differences are so subtle that you won't be able to tell them appart in a blind test
@@SociopatheAssume The right 12ax7 in V1 and V2 of these and many other amps can make a significant difference in sound. My 4104 and SLO have an RFT in V1, great tube for more gain.
Would love to hear the 2203 compared to the silver jubilee.
I've heard people describe the jube as a 2203 with more gain and a more powerful EQ. I have a Jubilee I absolutely love... but never owned a 2203 haha
+1 for this idea
I’ve had both and sold the silver. Still prefer my 2204 after 15 years after comparing it to a lot of amps(I have some comparisons on my channel). The Silver is more compressed, more „squished”, smoother in the mids (although the mid knob is extremely powerful) and can have more lows than a jcm 800. But no one needs more lows than a jcm 800 produces… and that spark isn’t there…
@@dominikignacik9736 I had both and ended up selling my Jubilee a few months after I bought it. The Jubilee is not as mean as a 2203
The silver jubilee is a completely different thing. The circuit is totally different. Dave Friedman has been telling people that for years but I guess no one pays attention. Both are great but not the same. I like the jubilee distortion better but it’s more of a one trick pony than the jcm800.
the Jub is more compressed tone. It's not as open. I've had both and much prefer the 800. Althought I still like the Jub. The 800's were almost on all recordings back in the day. Jub's were NOT. Hwever nowadays the Jub's are getting much well deserved loved and used more and more than ever.
I bought the jcm 800 half stack for 800$ when I was 15… 35 years ago. It was amazing. I had the 2203. It had 6550’s and was fucking amazing. Absolute life regret selling it.
Correction it was 25 years ago. Fuck!
I was in 80s UK thrash band Hydra Vein, and I used a boosted 2203 or 2204 all through the 1980s. It was either boosted with a Boss SD1 or a Rozz Parametric EQ. Absolutely killer amps to cut through the mix. Regret selling all of them in the early 90s for peanuts.
I have a Marshall JCM800 4010 combo, I replaced the speaker with the Eminence DV-77 speaker and stack a couple of Overdrives and it's huge sounding.
DV-77 is the cat's pajamas!
In the Marshall documentary there was that Iron Maiden basically saved the whole company. Marshall was basically on the brink of bankruptcy, because punks did not use tube amps. But then came Maiden, and everyone wanted a Marshall again. Probably the 2203 is exactly from that period.
Judas Priest was just as much or more influential. But Marshall was still riding high in the glory days of power metal (80-83) thanks to Van Halen and Randy Rhoads though neither played a master volume JMP or JCM800
If Marshall was on the brink of bankruptcy, I doubt it was because of the punks (who did use tube amps, Marshall included). Probably had more to do with the UK’s economic woes, their distribution deal with Rose Morris ending, and/or unsuccessful products like the Club and Country.
@@ro307805Interestingly, the non-master volume models seemed to be more popular with the pros at the time. Look at, say, Judas Priest’s back line at the US Fest. That’s all JCM 800 Super Lead models, not 2203. Yet many don’t know that Marshall did in fact make non-master volume JCM 800s.
A Distortion+ and an EQ into a Super Lead was the sound of British heavy metal.
@@kalebaldwin5398 I agree.
Second time hearing this story...and still finding it a bit untrue
I have an ‘89 2210 and it rips! I run a 10 band MXR EQ in the effects loop and hit the front with an SD1 over drive. Great tone both 90’s rock, thrash, metal. Yes, pick ups do make a difference in tone with my 2210 as well.
It takes a lot to get it there, but that boosted 2203 with the active pickups sounds so gnarly
I don't have marshall amp, but i use pedal distortion base on jcm 800, boost with od base on ts 808, my guitar ibanez rgr 321 ex, and i love the sound😊, add delay for the lead
Kyle, this is honestly the best intro you’ve ever made. You’re appreciated!!!
I had a 2210 in the late 90’s and loved it. It’s picky about how to best dial it in but great. I have a 2203 JMP MkII and also love it. So much of my favorite tones have been made with the 2203, it’s just the quintessential rock/punk/metal tone to me.
One thing that makes this amp great is that they are very very dynamic compared to ultra compressed modern amps, they sound very raw and are quite versatile once you know how to tame the beast. Sounds great non boosted too and becomes massive when the volume is past 9-10 o'clock, add boost, turn down the bass a bit and BOOM ! cuts right through the mix. If you can find a matching G1265 cab, you'll be in the golden era of rock heaven, use it with a V30 cab and get more modern tones. True that the channel switcher sounds a bit more modern.
Pick ups make a huge difference and so do tubes. Great video Kyle.
Thanks for this, Kyle! Would love to hear these both with a Mr. Scary mod added in. Boosted, unboosted, stacked...madness!
I think it’s worth noting how every jmp/800 sounds drastically different. I have a 2203 of each jmp and jcm800. They’re the Canadian versions which are ever so slightly different but they can get fairly high gain with a simple overdrive.
Pickups absolutely make a difference. I installed Seymore Duncan Black Winters in my Jackson Kelly and it totally changed the tone (for the better, the stock pickups were microphonic)
EMG 81 + Tube Screamer + JCM800 = 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻100%
I’ve owned both, the 2210 had w lot more gain but also sounded badass as well, never understood the hate. Love the 2203 too, sold it for a RedBear MK120 and now I’m set for life.
Will the full review of that adam Jones guitar ever come? Great video as always
I had a 2210 and I loved it. I miss that amp.
Same man… same. I actually really liked the channel switching capability, and for punk it had enough gain on its own.
I love my 2204 with a 6550 power section. One of those amps that will never leave my collection.
Nice content and delivery! My ear subjectively prefers Celestion Vintage 30's paired with a 2203/2204 rather than greenbacks which were not as tight ...
2210 is the GOAT !!!
I have an 85 and it’s KILLER
Tube screamer in the front and you get those yummy vintage thrash tones
I’m here for A/B tests and comparisons between amps. So many guitar channels are just advertisements for a single piece of gear with no context
2210 for sure, but you really have to do a lot to get them to sound good. Louise Torres used a plug in mod for his that added a second preamp tube and it made it sound a ton better. That might be what a person has to do to get a good tone without modding too much or using super expensive boost pedals
That is just kind of how was with most of the stock amps available at the time. When I played my 2210, I used a boost in front and eq in the loop. Had to do the same with my Rev G dual Rec. Now, at that time (late 90's/early 00's) there were obviously Soldanos, VHT/FRYETTE, Bogner, etc but most gigging musicians could not not afford them so they worked with amps like jcm 800's, which were cheap a widely available.
Not a JCM but I have a Friedman Runt 50 that's pretty close, and I have the legendary tones Mr. Scary mod and it rips. I play in a metalcore band and play pretty much straight in or with an SD-1 in front and it sounds so fucking good, I get compliments on it. It doesn't have as much gain as a 6505/5150 type amp but to me that just makes it sound tighter in a mix, especially since i tune to drop A. I play it through a mesa 4x12 with 2 DV77's and 2 CV75's
@@corbinhaynes7543 that sounds like a good setup! Yeah the mr scary! That's the name! Thanks!
I think the 2210 is a fine sounding amp. For the money though, in my opinion, you might as well save $1000 and just get a JCM 900. They were the same concept, but executed better. I think they are hands down the best value if you want a Marshall. You can kind of get the best of both worlds with the 4100/4500. There's no diode clipping in the "A" channel of the dual reverbs and IMO it hangs with the 2203/4's. They were still using Dagnall and Drake transformers in the 90's. Underrated amps. Reliable too.
It's just like with my little mg 30 FX the bottom shelf lamp. It sounds better when you run your overdrive on the clean channel read mode and on the the green channel on the overdrive button.. I I have a sd1 and an mxr Zakk Wylde overdrive.. on the overdrive channel in the green mode it has a lot more top end like wider sound. But you run your overdrive pedal on the heavy red mode overdrive sounds great too it's tighter.. but I think you can get some heavier crunch and chugging sound from overdrive green channel with your pedal dang it now I'm going to plug in and test it all again LOL I do think you get a little more out of it when you have it on the clean channel with the game turned up. When I run it on the heavy channel I turn my game back a little bit on the amp and crank up the gain on the pedal.
I've had both at the same time. The 2204 has a thicker tone to it more punch. Stock less gain however with a pedal it rips. Got rid of the 2205 kept the 2204. Now a days I put a HOT MOD V2 in the 2204 and has more than then one will ever need and not pedals anymore.
The fact that these amps sound great for Dad Rock or boosted with a modern OD for crushing modern metal tones is a testament to the greatness of their circuits. Jim Marshall knew what he was doing.
Do you still have the JVM410H? If so, it could be interesting to see how close you can get to a JCM800 tone with it.
As someone with a 100 watt 1982 JCM 800. I must say these amps need pedals LOL
Damn that hardcore tone at the end is excellent. I gotta say, the 2210 has more aggressive mids, super tight but thick sounding
I love my 2210. I put a mxr 10 in the effects loop & it roars
2203 boosted for the W IMHO. A bit more bark, timbre, and depth (thicker without being too flubby) along with this woody kerrang I love. Another great vid Kyle. Love ya dude💪🙏 \m/
This is the wholesome content we crave!! Do a JMP Video next! Intro on point 😂
I HAVE A 1985 2203.. IT ROCKS WITH OR WITHOUT PEDALS
My 1984 4104 with 6550s is the best sounding out of the many JMP&JCM 2204s/2203s I've had. My fav JMP 2204 sounded HUGE and tight with the volume around noon, but too loud. Shoulda kept it and the JMP2203. These amps take any boost that shaves off low end great for the hard n heavy stuff: treble booster, TS, SD1, Barber LTD/GC/BU, EMS, Klon, KOT, Fulldrive, etc. Fav is Timmy/Tim. 90s GBs with 6402 cones are darker than current GBs. They open up when you put volume on them, much like G12-65. I prefer the current GB ri.
I have a '79 JMP 2203. These reissue 2203X are really thin and harsh in comparison to the actual vintage ones. Besides of that, you really need to push the power amp section. You will get a lot of saturation, which gives these amps the amount of gain and a nice complex gainstructure.
i played metal for years with the 4212 (which is just the 2210 in a combo) and no extra distortion or gain was ever required. people can talk shit about it all they want, but no one who ever heard it didnt have to go see what it was because they coulndt believe it. ive owned other 800s and not all the ones you want. You gotta have that master volume setup and crank the gain and pre volume. EQ optional, mine never sounded thin, but maybe if your pickups arent as hot I guess i dunno. I used the stock bill lawrence originals in my custom 89 and its never wanted for power and tone. and the clean was amazing too. had 2203's and its basically ACDC tier unless you buy something cool like an ADA MP1, or do the preamp mods people did to them
I’ve already have a 2203X so I would pick the 2210 because i want to have both.
Personally I like to boost my 2203 with the Hexdrive
I just ordered a Grim 3 and I can’t wait to plugged it in front
There is a crazy buzzing sound when you’re talking! Great video though, I have a high gain modded 1989 2210 and I love it! But I have to have a pretty aggressive boost in the front for it to be usable for heavy stuff
I was wondering since i own the Peavey Bandit 112 teal stripe from 1992 and being poor it is the best amp i've ever owned and want to know how you feel your Peavey Supreme 160 measures up to the mighty Marshall 2203 or 2210 as i know the Supreme 160 is solid state vs Marshall tube 800s but i am curious about how you think if at all for cheap if they compare at all as i feel my teal stripe Bandit does not need a boost to get into metal territory as the 800s do but i have never played a JCM 800 before unfortunately and would love to hear your take on both the Peavey and Marshall if you have an interest in the future and thanks for your very informative videos Kyle
I have to say, I prefer the 2210. Both sound great but I'd definitely go for the 2210
Love the Marshall JCM800 / 900 clean channel, but I prefer my OG EVH 5150 and MESA dual Rec for hi-gain 🤷♂️
…guitar straight to head, no boosts, no unwanted feedback, no problem
Thank fucking God someone cleared this shit up. Love the 2204/2203 but it’s not a modern high gain amp. Also not a single amp sim I’ve tried actually sounds like one, and I think that’s where it gets confusing all the jcm800 amp sims have way too much gain.
Learned to work with my jcm900. Great amp.
Do you put a 10 band in the efx loop?
@@richpryor9650 with a clean boost.
@@richpryor9650try a simple clean boost b4 the loop with the extra eq
@@DosHemperor Does the boost help fill out the bass freqs?
2100 FTW 👍🏻🤘🏻
Here’s the best thing from any forum around Marshall’s. “That amp doesn’t have enough gain for metal” also “most of your favorite metal guys are using much less gain on their records than you think”
yup,and play razor sharp so quadrupling doesn't sound like mudslide. you could put Bill Steer's Heartwork guitars thru mg10 and it would slay any modern metal.
@ I love heartworks tone
2010 with the boost has a pitch invariant buzzy distortion sound, without it, it kinda sounds like a boost jcm800
Fascinating video, thanks for putting it together. Learned a lot as a non-Marshall dude who just wandered by. My only critical feedback is that 100% of the tones in this video are indeed dad rock tones. Thank u and goodnight!
I played death metal on a 87 jcm 800 100wat lead series for 15 yrs and it kicked ass! Bass 10,mid 3 treble 6 prescence 4 and crank the bass on the clean channel mid 0 treble 0
i have a 1984 2204 and its a monster with a boost in front of it. i have a tube screamer on full and i get a lot of people surprised an 800 can sound so mean
Curious, is this the 2210 you got from Texas?
My 2210 is my favourite amp of all time and I've owned a 2303
You should throw a VTM on that stack too to see how much power tubes really matter.
You showed me how awesome that anp is and it’s 100% scratched my 2203 itch.
Hey Kyle, really enjoying the videos!
just wanted to let you know that there is some weird crackle or static noise while you talk.
This video made me really appreciate my EVH 5150 50w a lot more
My 2210 is headed in for repairs/mods this week!
Nice epi. Back in my day, it wasn't so much the Marshall amp, it was what OD you put in front of it. It was either a Tube Screamer or a BOSS SD. "Apples to Oranges"..........
I can get into DM territory fairly easy with my 88 2205. 10 band MXR EQ in the FX loop does wonders for channel switching 800s.
2204 with a DOD 250 in front is my favorite tone Ive ever found. Miss that amp.
2203 all the way...just add a eq pedal in the loop and some form of overdrive in the front...good to go... i do the same in my original rockerverb 50 and it wakes up and tightens up
I don't want to take the credit because I know you probably get hundreds if not thousands of replies every day on your channel, but a bunch of months ago I made a comment about using different pickups and speakers than the Duncan Distortion and V30 combo, and now I see that you're doing that, which is sweet. You also replied to my comment, which made me feel super special lol. From one Kyle to another, your channel is great. I love watching these videos.
EDIT: Those Fishman active pickups sounded amazing. I'd still love to hear something with DiMarzio pickups, the Super Distortion is my all time favourite bridge pickup. Or a Gibson 500T. Those two pickups are crazy.
Legendary amps, but with so many real high gain options like the Engl Fireball, Savage, Peavey 6505 Original, etc., it’s much easier and more effective to get metal sound from these models.
And You can never have a 2203 boosted sound with a Fireball or any Engl amp or with a 6505. I know what i’m talking about because I have all the amps you mentioned and even more.
@@gral9440 learn to EQ then
I wonder how these compare with the Canadian version of the JCM800
Both sound really good. Although I personally always preferred amps with minimum knobs and a simpler circuit.
FYI I turn the Master up all the way + not too much gain boosted with a TS or a Rat, relying more on the power amp section.
The 2203 sounds like it has more clarity than the 2210 imo. New fan, I really dig what you're doing. Stay rad.
All the ones I’ve had needed at least 2 boosts to get where I want them. (SUPER tight thick & chunky)
Also used lynch mod plus a hex drive on one that sounded great, but made me question why I just didn’t get a higher gain amp to start with lol
Please do a 2203 vs a jubilee comparison
I played a 2210 coupled with a KMD 4x10 in the late 20th century 😆 and I never had to boost that amp 😆😆 you really have to crank this amp to have decent headroom and that's when it shines. Also the more you play these amps the more you get to use less gain because it adds a bright upper mid sweet spot which is tone heaven 😆
How does the 2210 compare to the JCM900?
Very similar. The 900 may have a very, very slight bit more gain but definitely not high gain by today's standards. And you definitely still need a pedal in front for hard rock/metal lead tones.
I've long been a Marshall fan (since the 70s, before I even picked up a guitar) and am digging this video. Alas, I sold my JCM 800 half stack long ago, but I now have a Marshall DSL combo and it has that excellent Marshall crunch. Honestly, I'd be happy with either of those two setups...
2203 sounds fuller and cleaner, once having the right OD out in front 🤘
JCM900 is what you're wanting to hear when you play an 800. it's all dad rock all the time. the 900 is the heavy one and if you're lucky you can score a JCM900 SL-X
Boosted 2203 all day.
And I freakin love those greenbacks, man. Those might be my favorite speaker.
Great content, thank you for all this effort man, it's greatly appreciated.
Man, as someone new to guitar and looking for a specific tone for a project I'm working on with better guitarist's than myself, I loved the sound of the 2203 boosted at the beginning. Specifically for drop d or drop c traditional hardcore riffs. I might have to buy myself a Marshall now. Great video!
Love your videos but it would be helpful to see the settings on the amp and pedals
Zakk Wylde had his signature model dialed down somewhat it is a bit cleaner sounding.. so his is even cleaner than the regular 2203..🤟🏼
Never played or heard a 2210. Weirdly the thin bottom end on it makes the overall tone sound scooped? Does it sound that way in the room too?
I've never had a 2210 that sounded scooped because of a lack of low-end. Mostly because scooped means boosted lows and highs, and the mids sound scooped out.
I had JCM 800 Split Channel with Booster 1ooW 4xEl34 2x12 Spring Reverb Combo - guitar straight to amp, no pedals, and I'm not metal player by any means 😁 great amp, lots of sustain definitely and very punchy
Great comparison, I really appreciate you walking though the whole process of getting these tones through these amps!
I wonder what these sound like compared to the Jvm410 od1 and od2 channels that are modeled after the hot or scooped jcm800
Evening Kyle. My question is do you run the overdrive peddle through the effects loop? Or in front of the amp. It's something that doesn't seem to get addressed much anywhere. Thanks man.
Dude talks about 'slamming the front with signal' to get into more modern territory. I think it's safe to say that for this demo the pedals were between the guitar and the amps input.
OG 2203 doesn't even have a fx loop.
Must add the SD-1 in front of these to know cause sd1 and marshall use asymmetrical circuits
Being a big fan of Power Trip and Fugitive a 2203 has become my dream amp but I'm broke haha. An 800 with a tube screamer is just such a simple and old school sounding tone that i can't get enough of
try to find peavey Windsor head,best poor man's Marshall there is.
My Langner modded 800 is an absolutely crushing metal unit! As is my Kerry King head.
Great comparison. Something I would love is a comparison between a JCM 800 and a Splawn (Quickrod or Competition or something like that). And for the record the 2203 sounds better in this video! The 2210 is a bit too boxy on its own, though it might sit a bit better in the right mix.
Hell yea! The 800 video the internet needed!
Thing is the term "high gain" amp seems to have a bit of misunderstanding imo. The 2203 is a high gain amp but is not a modern metal "high gain" without a boost. Soldano and other higher gain amps have more gain stages then the 2203