Babylon 5: The Defeat of the Blackstar - Spacedock Short
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Spacedock returns to B5 to look at the sole Earthforce Victory of the Earth-Minbari War.
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Q&A - APRIL 14th
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You should do a video on either the CIS navy as a whole in star wars or just the Providence Class Carrier/Destroyer. I really like the design of this ship and really wanted to see it more throughout the series, especially the Ship Rebel One in the rebel fleet.
I wish there was a Babylon 5 Lore Channel. lol
I always hated the Minbari. JMS kept downplaying the war as the show went on when he realized how many fans hated the Minbari and Delenn. It went from the Minbari slaughtering every human they found, even women and children on colonies (with Delenn's full approval), to the Minbari just destroying military targets. Delenn's change of heart as the war went on seemed to me very disingenuous, and her "love" for both Sinclair and Sheridan seemed more because of her martyr complex then real love.
Making the Minbari the center of the show and pretty much placing humans at the "back of the bus" made the show boring. Giving Delenn's character more screen time was simply because the actress was married to one of the producers and more screen time for her meant more for money for the show.
Babylon Five was still much better then Deep Space Nine, bigger overarching story and much better acting, but suffered from crude special effects and the hate coming from Trekkie's.
@@Folker46590 I dont get the impression many hated the mimbari- also they did NOT slaughter innocent unarmed civillians that i rememeber- they might have done later but during the war they targeted military targets. Delen was one of the best and most loved characters in the show. Her love of sheridan and friendship of sinclair were true- and she did not go out of her way to act like a martyr- it just nearly came to pass a few times and she would accept it if necessary.
How they acted during the war was as a race driven to madness by the death of their spiritual leader - not how they normally act. Also delens change of heart was not even a tiny bit disengenous- she and most of the mimbari basically recovered their sanity and also came to new understandings. I think you let personal beliefs mislead you and you totally misunderstood Delens character.
We trick you with hurt ship and kill all of you it is ok, You trick us with hurt ship and kill us all of us is not ok say now say sorry now!!!!
A despicable act of cowardice?! They were coming back to finish off a disabled cruiser that was transmitting a distress signal!
How dare the crippled ship turn out to still be capable of fighting back rather than just floating there and letting the enemy destroy them?
It's literally the same tactic the minbari JUST used. I would have loved to see the minbari taken down a few hundred pegs at some point in the series.
The butthurted were the warrior caste who had taken insane pride in their slaughter of humans.. Even other mimbari saw this as Lenon said to Sheridan he fully understood what Sheridan had done and that he needed to do it.. and he had sarcastically remarked before that the warrior caste seemed too proud of bashing an enemy that couldnt defend itself.. and Delen herself despite being the very one that leaned the vote into revenge saw no point in what the warrior caste was doing not much later..
@Johnny Dominguez
If i am embarassed about something, i don´t bring it up all the time and ask someone else to apologize for my own flaws. But hey, its an alien species with a different sense of honor and morality... at least thats how i explained it to myself.
My undersanding from the show is that this In the Beginnig retelling isnt really accurate.
I always felt there was a major continuity issue between the show and the movie, with the movie being the worse version.
My understanding thats back up by conversations in the show is Sherriden wasn't 'commanding a crippled ship, and sending a legit distress call'
Rather he came up in the war room with the idea of mining a asteroid field, placing radio transmitters inside pretending to be an earth force cruiser.
Then when the Mimbari jumped in to destroy it they were destroyed by the nukes.
Thats why the mimbar considered it dishonourable as his ships were never there, just a lure and a trap.
But I think they felt it wasn't dramatic for the film?
In the Beginning has some cool scenes, but gets lots of stuff wrong.
To reconcile that in my mind I always just view it as half drunk Londo's crazy retelling of the Mimbari war to some kids, so he gets half the shit he kinda read in books wrong.
Thats why Gkar is meeting Sherriden and shit, Londo is embellishing the story and half remember other things.
Minbari: "We were only engaged in a brutal war of cold-blooded extinction of your entire species because you killed just one guy we really liked, how DARE you fight back in an effective manner!"
That never ceased to tick me off in that series.
It was mostly the Warrior cast .. even the other 2 began to question the war by the end of it..
Also while the show usually portrays it as one of the worst conflicts humans endured.. it wasnt that bad at all in the end.. several times during the show they say they had about 250000 KIA .. considering it was an interplanetary full war between 2 full races it seems very low to me.. yes the Minbari plan was to destroy Earth military first and then come back wiping out all civilians.. but even before that many Minbari were desperatly trying to stop the war (like Delen and Lenan)..one wonders if they would had the stomac to continue had they not stoped at the line..
Even Lenier said that despite him lossing family in the Drala'Fi his family never blamed Sheridan or the humans as htye knew they had done worst to them before.. during the war shortly after the incident Lenan told Sheridan himself that he knew Sheridan had just done something necesary , but that there were others (Warriors mostly) who didnt wanted to understand
Delenn was the deciding vote...
NightRaven 1901 - The minbari didn't target the colonies directly, they just hit the military bases and fleets. Theory was that the warrior caste were destroying the opposing warrior caste of the Alliance first before destroying population centres at their leisure.
Edit: though I'm not sure how that took them two years...
It gets more infuriating if you've read the novel "To Dream in the City of Sorrows".
Sinclair demanded of Neroon where the hell they got off being angry at Sheridan, when they were committing a war of genocide? Neroon blustered that it wasn't just the death of Dukat, it was the "universal tactics of treachery and dishonor" that justified their genocidal war, including the actions of Sheridan.
If the first casualty of war is the truth, apparently truth doesn't stop being a casualty long after the war is over.
It's like when Londo answered Mr. Morden's question "What do you want?" a little TOO candidly. Both spoke in the heat of the moment without thinking about what they were saying, and others paid the price. Both regretted what they had said and tried to make it right somehow.
The lesson here is: Be careful what you say! Some things, you just can't take back, no matter how badly you want to . . .
Delenn: This is Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw or be destroyed!
Earth Force Officer: Negative! We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ship.
Delenn: Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari Fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else!
Great scene...
It was also interesting to point out that Delenn cast the deciding vote to turn the conflict into a holy war of extermination.
And I quote "Track them to their base, Kill them all, NO MERCY! NO MERCY!!!"
markotark yes it was:)
Severed Dreams is by far my favorite episode of the entire B5 series and even 20 years later that line still gives me chills of excitement.
I still love this quote and scene...and episode...
Funny that the Minbari called it a despicable act of cowardice, even though they did exactly the same thing to them just hours before.
By their logic, it was "cowardice" to use their stealth technology on the humans who did not have that same technology.
Yeah, the moral dissonance on the show sometimes grated on me, but I still enjoyed watching the show.
Minbari are supposed to be "the evil elves" of the show. Don't look for logic. Powerful enemies usually call any act of a foe who is fighting back - an act of cowardice.
@@hoosieryank6731 The moral dissonance is meant to show the illogic and absurdity of the Minbari.
@@sergeontheloose Yup! People are looking through the wrong 'lens', Zoom-Out some.
To me, B5 Lore reflects reality well in its use of intrigue and presentations of morals, values, and ethics
In all of all human-conflict across the ages: Enemies get Demonized; even former enemies look at history through their own lenses.
Sheridan: "I'll apologize for destroying the Blackstar when the Minbari government apologizes for trying to destroy the human race!"
John "Nuk'em" Sheridan
1. The Minbari
2. Thridspace Aliens
3. Vorlon and Shadows
That man knew how to throw a bomb
Yup I agree with you. He always did know how and when to use nukes.
It's the only way to be sure.
Duke Nukem, indeed.
"I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass."
John 'BOOM, bitch!' Sheridan. Really, folks - if the most badass folks around call you 'Starkiller', that's a hint and a half for your ass to leave that person alone.
Not to mention his ex-wife...
"The humans, I think, knew they were doomed, but where another race would surrender to despair, the humans fought back with even greater strength. They made the Minbari fight for every inch of space. In my life, I have never seen anything like it. They would weep, they would pray, they would say good-bye to their loved ones, and then throw themselves, without fear or hesitation, at the very face of death itself, never surrendering...
"No one who saw them fighting against the inevitable could help but be moved to tears by their courage, their stubborn nobility. When they ran out of ships, they used guns. When they ran out of guns, they used knives, and sticks, and bare hands. They were magnificent. I only hope that when it is my time, I may die with half as much dignity as I saw in their eyes at the end. They did this for two years! They never ran out of courage. But in the end, they ran out of time."
RIP in Peace Mollari
"Whether they fight or not they know the will die anyway, so really is this bravery or simple desperation?"
Londo's words really moved me, whenever I watch that scene.
Peter Jurasik is still alive
Could have sword he had died... I'll edit his name out then.
not only was this a great little monologue by Mulari but the scene segment just matched it so well too. In The Beginning was just so well made and thought out that clears so much of B5 history you only heat about in the entire show.
Mimbari use a fighter to appear like theyr'e wounded and helpless to be bait to an ambush. This is fine.
Membari obliterate entire batlegroup with their jump to realspace, not battle, just the jump in. THIS IS FINE.
Commanding officer of one of these ships knows that any attempt to call for help will have membari utterly and absolutely curbstomp him even though his ship is not a threat. So lays mines so when he does signla for help if the membari do come back he blows them up. THIS IS APPARENTLY NOT FINE.
...hypocritical boneheads.
they are _Min_bari
They were kind of written to be hypocrites.
@@Darkpara1 And that is fine, if it isn't a one note orchestra shrilly shrieking until you can hear nothing else.
When the Minbari Warrior Caste does it it's a legitimate tactic. When Earthforce does it it's a cowardly war crime. Because that's how things work. Apparently.
Honestly, it's a mirror. In the real world, governments and nations use this exact kind of hypocrisy almost all the time.
_"History is written by the victors"_
+HappyBeezerStudios - by Lord_Mogul The Minbari surrendered though. =)
The Minbari Warrior Caste was ashamed to admit that they fell for the same bait they used to trap the EA ship's and lost their flagship because of it. They had just used the supposed damaged flyer to lure the EA ship's into position, then fell for the same trick when Sheridan used his damaged ship to do exactly the same thing to them. The injury to their pride was greater than the loss of their flagship.
History is written by the victors.......Wait...
If I recall correctly didn't the Minbari Warrior Caste pretty much wage a war of total extinction upon the human race? And, they only bypassed civilian targets while planning to wipe them all out after destroying all military targets? Also, they had no moral qualms about shooting life-pods and finishing off wounded ships trying to surrender. They literally took no prisoners. So yeah... I wouldn't apologize either for sneakily ambushing one of their ships that DID come back to finish off a wounded and assumed destroyed vessel broadcasting an SOS. Screw em!!
No.
It was all the castes. The Warrior Caste were merely the front liners.
They did take prisoners once. Sheridan, G'kar, and Franklin were three of them. It was the first time Sheraton met Delenn in "In the Beginning". They have Londo to thank for getting them into that mess.
I Fully support Sheridan Position for NEVER apologizing for his tactics. War is not Pretty and the Minbari War was VERY one sided. Sheridan not only used their tactics against them but took out the Flagship of a force VERY close to earth. Moral in the war was at an all time low and the Earth Forces needed a victory. I think what stuck in the Minbari's Craw was the fact that a Lowly human was able to kick then in the balls and kick hard enough to make them take note.
Not for the Minbari. They had a pretty time in that war
Actually, while they were winning battles, they were having a bad time economically. Not in the least due to efforts of Earth...
Bad Beard Bill Also, every loss really hurt them in a way that wasn't the case for earth. They'd all but lost the capacity to build new ships (the ones they had were hundreds or even thousands of years old) and their birth rates had dwindled to well below replacement rates. They simply couldn't replace *any* losses.
The idea of apologizing for winning is hilarious
Dude you forgot your manners it was Earth that fired first and killed guldatdoko Delenn spiritual leader he told his aide he said sir we are approaching this unknown race without gun ports open as a sign that we mean no harm and that's when the land spiritually is a wait a minute? As he snapped his head at his age these people are not like us they don't understand the meaning of gun ports open the Earth forces fired first that started this damn war because the captain panic the two sides that never met each other before in the f****** Earth Captain f****** panic talking about dick getting ready to fire up on us two coaches don't know nothing about each other's habits or the way they greet one another find the first shot killed the delenns spiritual leader is she greed and gave the final order to fire on all earthships because she was his next successor in line she done it in a fit of emotion that she was angry as hell for that s*** when she met John Sheridan she remembered everything I had all came back to her she was sent to mate with him as a sign to bridge the unity between two planets that was her function to join with him as a show of unity in other words she was sent to f****** brains out the man that killed her people. Is she wound up falling in love with him.
Sheridan was asked to apologize? Wow I don't recall that. If pressed, I wonder what his apology would be?
Perhaps he channeled his inner G'Kar, "I'm terribly sorry the Minbari Warrior Caste ran out of small children to butcher!"
Or this: "I apologize. I'm sorry. I'm sorry your people thought the death of one man warranted the extinction of an entire race. I'm sorry we had the gall to fight back in ways you didn't expect. I'm sorry your Black Star's Captain was so arrogant and careless as not to recognize the trap he was walking into. And I'm sorry I waited as long as I did before I blew them straight to hell! After all, it's the thought that counts!"
DrownedInExile He was asked to apologize in one episode of Season 2. Bet it was a bit uncomfortable for the Mimbari when he married the Delen, the person who cast the deciding vote to go to war with the humans.
I always wanted him to go all "Screw you, war is hell!"
Only the Centauri could make Sheridan apologize (attempt). Interesting....
That point, I would've ripped the Crest off the CO and jammed it up the ass of the lowest Subordinate present while said CO was alive to see it.
It is the thought that counts."
It seems to me that the Warrior Caste are just indignant that a Human outsmarted them. JMS might have been trying to show that for all the Minbari's age and wisdom, they are still capable of acting like children.
Well seeing as most of the Warrior Casts apparencies was them being whiney assholes.
If I remember correctly, In The Beginning actually address' this. During the early stages of the war, the Ranger One at the time called the Warrior Caste a bunch of school yard bullies and cowards. On the grounds that Humanity was an "easier target", instead of the Shadows. I believe the line was something along the tone of "It is easy to claim numerous and 'glorious' victories against an enemy that doesn't stand a chance."
I have one point of contention. Ground forces.
Note that even a dozen years later, Earth “only” controlled 14 star systems, but the war lasted 3 years. After seeing how easily the Minbari dispatched Earth forces in space, are we to assume it took a full 10 weeks on average to subdue each star system for no reason at all?
My contention is Earth’s ground forces put up a heck of a fight. Note in Londo’s description, it got all the way down to hand to hand combat. We see both a Minbari and an Earth soldier using their bare hands, but the Minbari has a knife. This does suggest the ground conflict was much more contested.
Note how one Gropo bragged to Delenn about killing lots of Minbari in the war.
Note how confident Garibaldi’s company was in their superior perimeter. It failed, but note the confidence, deep into the war.
In the entire series, we saw a Minbari gun twice, or perhaps it was 3 times, each time a pistol. They use fighting pikes sometimes, as do the Rangers. We’ve never seen a Minbari rifle, grenade, machine gun, tank, artillery, missile/rocket, etc.
Let’s look a little closer at Londo’s description. “When they ran out of guns, they used knives, and bare hands...”
My interpretation is that with the space forces destroyed, the Earth ground forces were cut off from supplies. This caused them to “run out” of materials and ammo, and the Minbari had to wear them down. This is why the war took so long. They destroyed our space forces in a few minutes, but then it took weeks to wear down our ground forces in each system.
Further support mimbari are called warrior caste not military or army. Warrior ie individuals.
Actually, as far as we understand, the Minbari simply bypassed Earth’s Colonies and Defences and made a beeline straight towards Earth.
Arkforge Entertainment After 3 years of fighting, they bypassed some of the colonies in THIS solar system. The war lasted 3 years.
Minbari bodies are more resilient than those of humans, with their dense bone structure and their internal organs being able to take more punishment, which gave them an edge over human soldiers. But in terms of physical strength, they seem to be mostly on par with humans and thus could be killed by a human in close quarters.
Humans were able to produce ships and materials faster than the Mimbari.
JMS even stated that had their technologies been equivalent, Earth would have won the war via ship production alone. It was only because the Mimbari could hit harder, take more damage and were invisible to Earth radar that they had a clean advantage.
Not to mention the Minbari did the exact same thing with their "wounded vessel". Warrior caste obviously doesn't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.
And the Warrior caste didn't want the war to stop because destroying our ships and killing us was so easy for them.
MrNintoku should have shove the shoe up there ass
Wait, the Minbari use a Fighter to lure in a Flottilla and destroy it with their jumpwake but consider it dishonorable to destroy a warship with nukes in single combat?
No one has ever accused the Minbari of being particularly fair in their assessment of things.
I wsh the minbari could cross over into trek and fight the klingons and see how they fare in real honourable combat. See how haught the warrior cast is when facing an enemy that can turn invisible at will, and has tech your gods can't even figure out.
@@RXdash78 Someone actually wrote something to that effect. It's called A Thin Veneer, and has the Minbari pursuing an Earthforce refugee ship interrupt the assassination attempt on Chancellor Gorkon in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, leading to a stronger alliance between the Federation and Klingons, while General Chang gets the war he wanted, and both the KDF and Starfleet pull out as many unorthodox tactics as they can think of. (During a siege, a Starfleet vessel projected their entire music library into the Minbari vessels hulls (remember that scene in TNG where Data is listening to a dozen tracks at once? Take that, add bagpipes, scream metal, and Klingon Opera) and the Klingons figured how to make good use of the Stasis Field Generator (It doesn't work for space combat because it freezes the ship projecting the field, but that problem doesn't exist on the ground) to prevent the Minbari soldiers from using energy weapons or most of their pikes.
You'd think the Warrior Class would've seen him as a great tactician. Guess it goes to show just how shitty the Warrior Class really is.
Yeah they are little bitches
The irony is that two of the most revered individuals by the Grey council came to be humans, Sinclair and Sheridan.
Yup! That's something I really love about B5, though: It actually recognizes when characters are being absolute tossers.
Like, the Warrior Caste being smug preening dickheads who are more interested in glory than doing what they need to do is a whole theme. And it eventually culminates in a civil war on Minbar, their homeworld, that only ends when they get shamed into shutting the fuck up by Delenn and one of their own high ranked members.
Afterwards, the Gray Council (the high government of the Minbari) is reorganized, so rather than being 3 worker caste, 3 religious caste and 3 warrior caste, it's 2 warriors caste, 2 religious caste and 5 worker caste.
Cause, like...the fucking worker caste have been spending this whole time where the warrior and religious caste have been arguing and fighting going, like, "w-we just want to...you know, just build stuff? Please, please relax?"
As much as I respect the Minbari, I'd have told any who asked for an apology on that incident to "shove it". Then turn right back around and talk about our alliance against the shadows. lol
Me, I would have said "shove it", rip off their crest so that they actually had something _to_ shove, _then_ walked off to find their damn Partner.
Mimbari Warriors: CHEAT!!! HAXORS!!! YOU CHEATED!!! HOW DARE YOU WIN!!! WE ARE SUPPOSED TO WIN!!! YOU CHEATED!!! HAX!!! FUCKIN' HAX!!!
Kinda sums it up, they seem to be bad losers.
Jeah kiling every one in enemy fleet we are onarabu warriors, you blow our flag ship whit guile and but up ship then you start to chall that human has no honor, jup bad losers to me.
They even say in the movie, that the Warrior Caste, loves to win and so whats better to them than a fight they can't lose? I think what made it worse, was the fact that they got beaten, using the exact same trick they had just pulled.
I have not seen babylon 5 movies and only seen 1 season so Mibari seems to be mostly ass holes.
Hax?
Also, the Minbari Warrior Class's outrage over Sheridan's alleged "act of cowardice" shows their hipocrisy. Luring the enemy into a trap was precisely what _they_ were doing as well.
"How dare you ambush our ship after we ambushed you and were getting ready to murder helpless sailors."
Gotta love hypocrites
As a Babylon 5 fan... Thank you.
Sean Go mez same here
And he would reuse the same basic tactic to get the full attention of the Shadows and Vorlons during the Shadow war.
I miss B5, might have to rewatch the series again soon. :D
more or less. He knew the Vorlon's next target and seeded false intel to the Shadows of a juicy target at the same coordinates. It was noted that both the Vorlon's and Shadows were deliberately avoiding engagements with each other. When they both showed up, both forces completely ignored the combined fleet of the non-alligned worlds...till Sheridan gave them their wake up call. I do believe the Vorlon's and Shadows displayed signs that "they're pisses"
"We lost many of our best warriors because of you!"
I'm really surprised Sheridan didn't just burst out laughing at that statement.
"The Earth-Minbari War was perhaps the most one-sided conflict in galactic history."
- Nah, I'd say Centauri plus Shadows against Narn was more one-sided. It was also won a good bit faster.
The Membari where hypocrites.
The minbari committed war crimes. Delenn who is the grey counsel she was on . She was the one who said no Mersey that right there the minbari is guilty for committing mass murder. Of unarmed civilians and helpless ships . She have done was this open communication with the humans and closed there gun ports . And talked . The judge speaks. Minbari is judgement of this court finds you guilty of mass murder. Delenn the judgement of this court finds you guilty.
Oh how I wish that they make another series for that universe.
Perhaps a series about Babylon 4 during the First Shadow War, and how Sinclair share the recipe of Swedish meat ball to all the races.
wasn't a war it was a massacre, the Minbari were intent on exterminating all of humanity till the battle of earth when they surrendered
"It is the only victory we had in the whole damn war....... And I will not apologize for it."
"See you in Hell...." - John Sheriden.
You should do the Battle of The Line at some point.
Damn, that would require a heck of a lot of little explosion icons lol. :)
Not exactly much in the way of clever tactics or skill. It litterally would ammount to "Human Forces lined up in orbit around Earth, they got slaughtered, then the Mimbari stop slaughtering them"
There's not much tactic to discuss there. It was a slaughter.
Not much of a battle. Couple dozen fighters got vaporized. No capital ships destroyed. It had slightly more death than the final "battle" in DS9 when they reached Cardassia Prime. Oh shit, THAT woulda been a GLORIOUS battle in Star Trek if the changeling hadn't surrendered.
There's a bit more to the Battle of the Line than what we see on the show. The novelization goes into more detail about it. For one thing, the Earth Alliance was using a jamming system which was supposed to prevent ship-based jump drives from being able to jump directly into Earth orbit. The hope was that the Minbari would be forced to emerge from Hyperspace at some distance beyond Mars orbit, and forced to fly through normal space to reach Earth, buying more time.
However, Minbari jump drives were powerful enough to punch through the jamming anyway. Their scout fighters at Luna engaged Sinclair's squadron, relaying their recon info to the Minbari fleet waiting in Hyperspace. If you watch the footage of the Battle of the Line carefully, you'll notice that they jumped into normal space both *in front* of *and* _behind_ the Earth Alliance fleet, with the sun at their backs, sandwiching the Earth Alliance fleet in between them, and making even manual optical aiming difficult (due to their stealth technology, the Earth Alliance had long since fallen back to resorting to manually aiming with optics).
The early commanders for the Minbari were indeed brash and arrogant, reckless even. When the Blackstar was destroyed and Branmer took charge, he had the Minbari fight intelligently, with actual tactics and skill, rather than simply relying almost entirely on their superior technology.
The battle of Babylon 5 at the start of the Earth Alliance Civil War
Amazing video!!! I love videos with combat tactics analysis.
It's good to see youtubers creating content on Babylon 5.
Could you do more videos about Babylon 5 ships?
Or about battles like the Battle of the Line or about Strelas'tha Incident.
The Strelas'tha Inciden was the first time that an Earthforce warship (Warlock destroyer) won a direct open space engagement against a Minbari ship (Sharlin Warcruiser).
And yet Captain Sheridan didn't make your top list of commanders...
YES! More Babylon 5 content! Thank you, Spacedock!
"See you in hell."
BOOOOOOM!!!
I love how the soldiers/pilots back on Earth celebrated. That good feeling of a first victory against an unstoppable enemy. It boosted my morale too.
Love the Babylon 5 Videos, keep them coming! Especially anything to do with Sheridan! :D
Yep. One of the best strategies used against arrogance. Sheridan simply paid them back in the same currency they've given in the beginning of that particular battle. What pisses me off are the Warrior caste complaints...they were utterly self-indulgent cowards, so arrogant in their own superiority that they would never accept defeat by some 'inferior' being using the SAME strategy they used...fuck them....
Anyway, as always, ODYSSEY dreadnought class cruiser and Chronos Temporal dreadnought from STO!!!
Damnit... Guess I'm rewatching Babylon 5 now.
If I'm not big enough to hit you above the belt, You better watch you nuts!"
Sometimes the Minbari Warrior caste were such whiners. Captain Sheridan outthought them. He used their arrogance and bloodthirstiness to lure them into a trap and the trap worked. Their whining shows they know this, are embarrassed by it and aren't willing to face it.
That said, I hope when it's my time I hope it's with the courage and effect of Nerroon. He's proof of General Sir John Hackett's observation that, "The whole essence of being a soldier is not to slay but to be slain. You offer yourself to be slain rather than set yourself up as a slayer." Nerroon gave up his life to save his people from the members of his own caste.
This is still a really good show even if it was made in the early 90s
Minbari Warrior caste was always sore loosers.
THANK YOU I was trying to remenber the term in english to comment the exact same thing
It’s always fun to see how the asteroid belt is always depicted as such a crowded dangerous space in sci-fi
The Minbari! The Vorlons' latest and greatest fanatical cannon fodder race! Easily misled, very superstitious, living under a primitive caste system and stagnating, but built very tough, obedient and hard-working. Give them just enough technology to have a chance against the Shadows' allies (and even the Shadow drone ships themselves, with telepathic jamming) and watch them engage in the space version of human wave attacks, all for their "angels" and "honor". They only finally won because of leadership and future knowledge of a human pilot pretending to be a Minbari. 1,000 years later, all of their greatest minds have human DNA in them. After humans accidentally kill the greatest of them, thanks to the Warrior Caste's arrogance and stubborn traditionalism, they get so butt-hurt that they decide to become a pariah race in the galactic community by committing an interstellar genocide, only stopping due to more superstitious mumbo jumbo. If I lived in the B5 Universe, I'd stay far away from the Minbari, at least those without any hair (facial hair was human trait passed on by Sinclair).
Yeah, that was always my issue. It is OK for the Minbari to butcher Humans, but it is not OK for Humans to return the favour.
Would love to see some Space Battleship Yamato 2199/ Starblazers coverage. If you have access to the show of course.
One of the best vids so far dude. Keep it up!
Very good video. Great battle tactics from Captain John Sheridan. The best battle I think on Babylon 5 is battle of Proximal 3. Thant's one battle worth looking at.
Great Vid. Thanks for doing more Bab5
Another Babylon 5 video!! Yesss!!!
I would love to see some Farscape content! Thank you
Should be a Farscape vid in May, barring any delays.
Sorry about that, IP's like 40k, Farscape and even B5 to an extent have to get fewer videos, just to make space for the massively popular ones like SW and ST.
Coverage is coming at some point though, thanks for watching. :D
and this is why John Sheridan is my favorite sci-fi captain
Outstanding!!!!!!
Can y make a star wars VS : The Malevolence vs Resurgent class Battlecruiser
Well since they were baiting his battle group by playing helpless it's only fair he do the same. Minbari are just sore losers with overblown egos and a false sense of spirituality they abandon whenever convenient.
Some of them were, not all of them or even the majority. Mainly the Warrior Caste. They had much more in common with humans than they realised. ;)
If they use that tactic, what prevents their enemy from doing the same?
well they are part human...remember they only stopped killing humans when they learned about a certain soldier being 'related to' (read secretly) their holiest person.
Not just a certain solder. Sure Sinclair happened to be Space Jesus but it was sheer luck that they tested him 1st. They didn't actually accept it at 1st and started testing other POWs (thus a full day before Sinclair got cut loose) and found that EVERY Human is a reincarnated Minbari. Not Some, EVERYONE. That's how they were able to get even the Warrior Caste to stand down; Minbari don't kill Minbari.
Luck? No. Knowledge of the Future relayed crypticly by 2 Vorlons? Yes.
Remember, the truth points to itself...
Pretentious prick warrior caste ... :P
Hey Spacedock! Would you consider doing a video on the Sharlin War Cruisers from Babylon 5? Thanks!
Battle In The Mutara Nebula Star trek II would be a good video with two ships evenly matched
Black Star: "Somebody set us up the bomb."
Sheridan: "You have no chance to survive make your time."
The Vorlons go on and on about the shortcomings of the Narn and Centauri, but the Minbari are just as bad -- worse, as they are stunningly hypocritical on top of all their other faults. Since they are the local bullies of the younger species (not "races," as consistently misstated in the series) owing to their more advanced engines of destruction, no one dares say anything against them. "They'll none of 'em be missed - they'll none of 'em be missed."
u should do a video about ships from fractured space
Minbari = hypocites for using fake crippled fighter bait while asking for an apology.
I'd like to request an episode on either Earthforce Nova Dreadnaught or Omega "Destroyer". Hah... Destroyer my ass. Ah, lovely naming conventions and how they used them to make building hundreds if not thousands of 1.6 Kilometer long Dreadnaughts more acceptable to the public in charge of funding. :D
I think the justification of that classification was due to the armament. The Nova Destroyer had 18 double turrets, while the Omega has just two primary guns and a number of close-in weapon emplacements.
The missiles and the energy mortars are the same, though.
Also technological progression plays a part, like a new paradigm shift. They need to square up against the older races, so they revamp a dreadnought as a destroyer, with the implication that the NEXT dreadnought would be proportionally bigger, like the Nova was to the Hyperion.
And hey, the same thing's happened IRL. The Zumwalt is 60% heavier than the Ticonderoga.
Terminology drifts over time. The term 'destroyer' was a shortened term for 'Torpedo Boat Destroyer'. In the future, it could stand for 'Starship Destroyer".
Say what you will of Klingons but at least they would have given the crews of the EA ships a chance to die of their feat and take some Klingons with them via a boarding action rather than just killing them while they're helpless adrift
"A request he never oblieged."
And then he became the Interstellar Alliance President. Ask him now.
You forgot to mention that there were also 2 mimbari escorts destroyed along with the blackstar, in the episode that mentioned this sheridan said that his mines took out the blackstsr and two of its supporting ships, so you have missed that little bit
Unapologetically Pragmatic. Be like Sheridan
So, when the Minbari did it to an vastly inferior foe it was ok. The Minbari who were supposed to be so "honorable" had no qualms slaughtering a technologically inferior opponent, no problem murdering the defenseless, and no problem with the end result being genocide of an entire race. To call the Minbari hypocritical would be the understatement of the galaxy.
Being the huge nerd I am, love your channel. You should do a video about the Borg vs the Zerg from Starcraft.
Spacedock seems the really like Babylon 5. Should be watching this show??
Wait, you haven't? It's basicly scifi GoT without the softcore porn. If you like political intrigue and shit going boom it's something you need to watch.
Babylon 5 is amazing. A bit of a rocky start with Season 1, but once it gets going, holy shit does it get going.
Fida Md-Saini the anination for B5 was absolutely amazong for the times with very interestingly designed ships.
Don't forget the alien designs too, some of the weirder ones played an important part in the series. Can't go into more detail without spoiling things lol. As much as I love the star trek franchise, a lot of it seemed to be the nose job, or forehead alien of the week.
It really wasn't. The bad CGI is the only thing, which is sad in B5. Otherwise it is the best sci-fi TV show of all time - for me anyway.
The only issue I have with this version is that in the actual show Sheridan said multiple cruisers were destroyed.
I get in the movie they had to cut costs and only show one ship hit.
Only 1 addition, Sheridan used this tactic to kill 3 cruisers and the Black Star.
Yes, our ambush is perfectly honorable. Their ambush is despicable and cowardly. Moral myopia if I’ve ever seen one.
For a bit of physics, nukes are significantly weaker in the vacuum of space, with anything over a few miles away being harmless to a warship. And asteroids never clump together. They tend to be thousands of miles apart.
Space nukes would likely be designed to put as much of their energy output as possible into radiation rather than infra red (heat) though. The "x-ray laser" they came up with during the SDI program was likely such a device, it was popularly depicted in the media as a "pincushion" of lasers but there is indication that it was actually more like an "x-ray bomb" and produced an omni directional burst of coherent x-rays (laser here referring to lasing in some sort of materiel fed by the nuclear explosion not "laser beams".
Space nukes are even less damaging. It's just a bright flash if you're a couple hundred meters away.
Now, you could make a nuke propel some plasma at high speed...
Bad Beard Bill Yeah, I suspect you'd want to use the explosion to propel some kind of projectile to relativistic speeds.
I am pretty sure what damaged and propelled the vessel was not the blast but the fragments of the asteroid, ejected at high velocity towards the ship.
That’s why they put them on asteroids, relativistic asteroid chunks would be insanely damaging on top of the blast wave, which is enhanced by the vaporizing of part of the asteroid.
Plus, current nukes, meant to be used in space, are enhanced radiation bombs. Even at thousands of kilometres, they can transfer mega-joules of EM energy into a target, in huge spikes, over a very short duration.
Any crack in physical shielding would overload any electronics, say cracks caused by being hit with high-speed asteroid chunks.
I could see them making super-large bombs for space use too, because there’s no atmosphere to make anything over 40Mt basically useless, in space.
What program do you use to show the battles?
Earth Force should have employed this tactic more often.
Babylon 5 Earth Alliance destroyer Agamemnon Vs. Colonial Battlestar Galactica
Cruz ZX6R
tough call there. The Omega class destroyer is armed to the teeth with more superior fighters. Galactic has more fighters and more guns plus she can deal damage like nothing else but she has much lower damage potential vs the Omega. Close call but I'd have to give it to the Agamemnon if she uses her fighter compliments to keep the Bikers and Raptors from taking on their mothership as she deals overwhelming damage to Galactica with only her flak cannons as her offensive weapons, I doubt those autoguns have enough reach to even ping an Omega classespecially given the distance those heavy laser canons can be used.
@@HeadlessChickenTO it depends i guess how the engagement goes. I feel like based off the firepower the Omega class will win as long as its able to take out the Columbia class Battlestar before it can deploy a viper wing because it seems more like the Omega class itself has clearly more anti ship weapons. However I feel if the Columbia class can deploy its fighter wing it can cause some crippling damage for the Omega class if the Battlestar can deploy its fighters.
I love this channel and all the ships and battles u bring would love to see u do the ships of Centauri narn and drazi
That was a great movie, with wonderfull OST. I wonder, if JMS would do any more movie, will they be more like In the Beginning, or sadly not.
Thanks for the short.
Please do more Babylon 5 videos :) There are so few willing to/knowledgeable enough to do so that it's so refreshing to actually find your B5 discussions.
OMFG thank you for posting!
Wow, reminds me of Halo. What Admiral Cole went through when he was a lieutenant on the UNSC Las Vegas.
If i recall, he used a distress signal to bait an innie ship and then when the insurrectionist vessel was docked, he opened all of his missile ports and tore the innie ship to fucking pieces.
They need a new Babylon 5 show and start where they left off. When Shardon was in Londos jail and Londo had that one eye neck hugger around his neck
Thats told in novels.. they usually never do series about something thats allready writen for weird reasons (yes i know about Game of Thrones)
You killed our ship that was trying to kill you. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
This is why John Sheridan is a certified bad ass
Thanks mate, Sherridan is one of my favorite, right next to Admiral Thrawn
this was well done. keep making more of these space battle breakdowns!
Please cover the Bonehead maneuver.
Do the battle of the line from babylon 5
hubris killed the radio star...
please make more of these awesome vidios
It was hardly a war. It was a massacre
I like your vids so much
All's fair in love and war
An interesting series of videos you have here. But I have a suggestion. I love Babylon 5, but if you want really massive space battles that are fought like Napoleonic style wars there is Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Yes the fleets line up in formation, but skirmish groups are deployed to hit the flanks and other angles of attack. But maybe it's too complex when the fleet number around 10,000 ships per side, it becomes more like infantry formations once they get that huge.
FRAG YEAH! HUMANS!
Minbari "Apologize for that cowardlyact "
Sheridan: "I'm sorry... that I couldn't do it to more of you genocidal boneheads."
I always found it interesting that the Mimbari were not above luring their enemy into an ambush but when the same tactic was used against them, they cried Foul.