I have Autism. While the episode was educational I was a bit let down by the guest of this episode. I felt she focused too much on the clinical side of it and not on some of the ways Autism could manifest itself(Masking, meltdowns, stimming, ect.) or ways for Autistic people to help themselves. I would be interested in an episode focused on Autism with Dr. Paul Conti as a guest or someone that actually works with Autistic patients
Agreed. 33 minutes into it i was disappointed. I'm reading Unmasking Autism by Devon Price and hopefully I'll get some answers......... But whats the point of a three hour video when Nobody is educated enough to give a proper diagnosis? Why spend thousands of dollars and countless hours with doctors that prescribe useless medications that only do further harm? Personally I don't need a diagnosis......but what I do need is a home base to figure out why I have been acting like the way I've been for the past 55 years so I can make a little bit of sense to this freaking puzzle. Take care
YES. And aso step by step guides resources to adults who were never recognized, supposedly masked well and lives are ruined right now but they want to figure it out and create a way to exist in this world. Navigating- info, money resource and second guessing self is so easy. If we can help
I am autistic and wasn't diagnosed till 18 because I always did well in school, it was only when a lot of mental health problems showed up and typical treatment didn't work that autism was discussed. I have also worked as a support worker for young people with autism and I have to say most of the problems others and myself have faced has been from the outside world trying to force us to fit a mould we are not meant to. My social anxiety has improved drastically since understanding autism because it made me feel so much better about myself, I am not broken and don't need to do things the way everyone else does- finding new ways yo do things instead of beating myself up has been immensely helpful. Self esteem plays a big part- if you grow up with everyone telling you you're broken or wrong, you're not going to get on well but since changing my perspective to view neurodiversity as causing individual strengths and weaknesses just like anyone else has been helpful for me, meaning I can properly address any issues I'm facing without feeling like a defective human. Love to all neurodiverse folks (and the rest of you too lol) 😊
@fotter9567 perhaps it would have been nice to include an actual autistic person in this discussion. It's like to straight people talking about what it's like yo be gay lol
100%! The world needs neurodivergent people - it’s this diversity that allows us as humans to progress and discover. Yes absolutely neurodevelopmental disorders are a disability in a neurotypical world, and can cause some real challenges, but we do have a lot of strengths. We need the diversity of human brains and ways of thinking and it’s not up to neurotypicals to decide what is best for us. You have the double empathy problem here. We need understanding more than fixing. I have ADHD, it’s massively debilitating with some things (admin tasks, group situations), but a strength with other things (amazing in a crisis, able to process lots of information in a very short space of time, great at socialising 1:1). There are aspects that are difficult and I would love to change, but equally I wonder if I would feel the same if others were more educated and understanding of neurodiversity).. If treatment can help with lessening things like anxiety and depression for example then I’m all for it. But to fit the neurotypical mould, I would question why you have a need to fix us. FYI Elon Musk is autistic and Bill Gates has ADHD.
Autistic adult here! Podcast was interesting. Although it felt a little one dimensional in perspective. Something I think is missing from many clinical studies of autism is the autistic experience from the perspective of the person with the autism. Autism is so much more than social ineptness. She did mentioned this briefly. Sensory issues, how we process and perceive the world around us, special interests, masking, meltdowns, anxiety, stimming, self-regulation, etc. Even just how we approach social situations isn’t from disinterest, but from a different perspective and communication style altogether. Many of the clinical studies focus on the social aspect of it because that’s what benefits non-autistic parents and peers who are looking from the outside and feel like they can’t connect with us. But it doesn’t advocate for people who actually have the condition and have a lot of things they need to cope with day-to-day. Karen’s research has been done largely with animal trials and when done with humans it was very very small trials (less than 50 kids involved last I kept up with it). And in these studies the person reporting on the affects of the trial were the parents observing and not the kids. As she said in the podcast, she is interested in helping ‘parent stakeholders’ but it would be good to hear from the stakeholders who have the condition. Interested to see how the research holds up or develops with larger trials, more time, and more insight from the patients themselves. Also the diagnostic material is largely white-male biased. A lot of females with autism don’t present as socially impaired as others. And under diagnosis is higher in females and especially in people of color. Autism research has a dark history going back to the holocaust when they thought only males could have it and only did research on white males… which is necessary to acknowledge when speaking of increased diagnosis in modern day. Curious to hear some of these clinical trials from the perspective of and autistic person. For me, when I worked to increase social cognition it made me more prone to anxiety, masking, stress and consequently meltdowns. But people saw it as a success because I was ‘less socially awkward’. However I experienced more burnout and stress and less stamina than when I didn’t mask. I now have plenty of friends who don’t expect me to mask my autistic traits but who spent the necessary time to bridge the communicative gaps and these relationships are thriving. I think it would be beneficial to have more research focuses on closing that gap in communication between different neurotypes, since as mentioned in the progress, it doesn’t go away with age. I’ve noticed a difference when I listen to specialist who are themselves autistic or work closely with autistic patients/family. and they tend to be more concerned about the well-being of the autistic community rather than merely addressing symptomology. I’ve now had the opportunity to work with neurodivergent individuals and their parents and have helped bridge that gap in a away that helped both sides of the relationship. This is missing from a lot of clinical research
This. I was surprised and dismayed that I needed to scroll so far down to find a comment like yours. Thank you for contributing this valuable perspective to the discussion.
Your comment is very well written with , I think, a lot of valid points. Your mention on how socialising is viewed as a success, but the masking through it makes you feel worse, was very valid. My son, who has ASD feels like this. It makes me feel sad as a parent that in order for him to fit in with the wider world, he has to perform like this. There is not enough information given out to carers and people in general to help support each other. We all could do with it ❤
Excellent feedback. It seems as though processing predictable information (not to be confused with familiar information), calls for a different brain state than processing unpredictable information. From the perspective of someone autistic, neurotypical people seem disadvantaged at processing unfamiliar predictable data such as working on an unsolved math problem.
Dr Hubernan, I hope you might extend your scope of interest to also talking about autistic adults who have long since missed the critical window of intervention and who are living with autism and the devastating consequences of social impairment. Meaningful therapies and in fact even having access to a psychiatrist or psychologist is a worldwide issue and I believe this topic would be embraced by a segment of society who are largely otherwise ignored. The stats on life expectancy and suicide for people with autism back up the need for these conversations.
I have such an unpopular opinion: I'm on the spectrum and I've decided to just IGNORE any notion that I'm disabled. Nope, don't have any interest in socializing just to socialize; there needs to be a purpose. Also, sensory issues don't mean I have emotional or behavioral issues so I just keep the stimuli "low". I believe that a lot of adults on the spectrum create a lot of harm trying to fit into neurotypical social expectations. I don't find it necessary. I can't hold a job for more than two years not because the job is difficult but because I can't really see eye to eye with people that aren't focused on the job. So I started a company with my autistic wife. My point is that if we just look for our own strengths, we'll find them. I'm not a broken NT, I'm a normal autistic. My life looks very different than an average NT's but my sensitivities give me early detection and my ability to focus gives me tools. I wouldn't change a thing about myself. Oh, and I'm also not tribal and don't want to be. Y'all NT's can keep that one.
@@theoforand432 everything you say makes perfect sense to me and it sounds like you have constructed a life with firm boundaries that enable you to operate under the conditions that work for you. Do you have an extended family who understand and accept your need to do so? What age did you get diagnosed? You may or may not be female but under the assumption you are male, I believe there are different social norms - and even different presentations across the sexes that can also be relevant. I appreciate your thoughts and experience.
I always hear the same thing about autism and ADHD: mostly boys have it. But what professionals fail to see is that girls are great at masking and mirroring. But people don't understand that and we continue to fly under the radar without a diagnosis for years...
I grew up in the 80s and I never masked. I was just ostracized by my classmates for being "weird" and ignored by the teachers... I mean I was perfectly behaved × quiet so teachers had no problems. Only problem they DID have is the fact I was being bullied but they tended to ignore that too. One time I recall the punishment for the bullies was they werent allowed to go on a field trip the last day of school! But it was the last day so they didnt care. But even if the odd behavior was right "in your face" it was ignored.. Wasnt diagnosed until I was 48!
Exactly! I was about to write that. My Psychologist kept saying I showed barely any signs. I think it has a lot to do with the society and the cultural implications of how women are raised. Men with autism are generally accepted with the traits whereas there is less tolerance for women/ girls with autistic traits so they learn to mask more efficiently and way early.
Since we can socialize and the diagnostic criteria says we must have social deficits we are missed. I have a feeling that this scientist would not consider most women with autism as being autistic because we do not fit her model surrounding human connection. I connect with people. I often talk too long about boring things, or misunderstand someone's intentions, but I connect with people, have huge amounts of empathy. I think that the diagnosis of autism needs to focus on how we process sensory information. I think that is the key to understanding autism.
“Services for autistic people” is more apt than “treatment for autism” Also, I imagine the people that “outgrow” their autism are either masking very effectively or were misdiagnosed/actually had trauma.
The treatment is more for society's convenience than our own. We're not crazy were jsut wired different so they expect us to be good house nerd-ers and use our superpowers to serve the normie society.
I was going to mention the same things. I can tell just by some of their terminology and overall approach to the subject that Dr. Huberman and Dr. Parker are not on the same page as many of those in the autistic and neurodivergent communities. Using terms like "treatment" and "outgrow" suggest they are out of touch with the nuances of what it is like to be autistic. This very much seems like a conversation between a set of intelligent people who have a sincere interest in this subject but are looking at it from an outsider's perspective, in a way that they could have avoided if they had spent more time listening to what autistic self advocates say about their own experiences of autism. Given how popular this podcast has become, and how much influence and clout Dr. Huberman seems to have for those who are fans or who aren't very familiar but just casually consume bits of his content, I'm disappointed in how this is unlikely to help people gain understanding and appreciation of the difficulties societies have with relating to autistic people (yes, I see a strong tendency for non-autistic, or at least not-definitely-autistic parts of society to be the source of a large amount of the social difficulty autistic people tend to have, due to a lack of trying to understand autism as experienced by autistic people, not the other way around, and instead simplistically looking at it as a set of behaviors and biological traits).
I have a few issues with what she said regarding whether adults can be diagnosed with autism, whether someone can “grow out of” an autism diagnosis, and the incidence of autism in males vs. the female population. Let me explain. I listened for about an hour and, sorry, but, I admit I couldn’t even go on after she had the opportunity to acknowledge that adults that were missed in childhood can be diagnosed, too, and she declined (stating that the diagnosis occurs in childhood). This is an unfortunate and prevalent misunderstanding. The DSM-5 has no requirement that diagnosis take place during childhood and there are many adults currently alive that were children when Autism Spectrum Disorder Level 1 didn’t exist and the closest previous diagnosis (Asperger’s) was not something that was widely enough recognized that all children would have been identified and diagnosed (not to mention our growing understanding of stereotyping and the difference in presentation between males and females leading to under-recognition in females). Additionally, I think it’s frankly outrageous that she said that someone can outgrow their diagnosis (presumably, through early intervention, learning to heavily mask). The DSM-5 specifically states that autistic symptoms “may be masked by learned strategies in later life,” and this should not preclude diagnosis. Heavily masking by using learned strategies in early intervention may help autistic children and adults “not seem autistic,” but this does not mean they have grown a neurotypical brain and grow out of their diagnosis. Neuroplasticity may be amazing, but it can only do so much. While we do not know exactly what causes various neurodivergent expressions in humans, there’s no biological evidence to back up her claim of “growing out of an autism diagnosis.” Conversely, in the absence of biological evidence, we have a tremendous amount of experiential information coming from clinicians and autistic adults themselves that points to neurodivergent conditions like autism being consistent and lifelong experiences. For someone who has an autistic brain, learning masking techniques that require them to exist in the world in a way that isn’t natural or comfortable for their nervous system can only help so much (in terms of their inner experience and the stress their nervous system is going through). Sure, they can become “high functioning” and “seem normal” but internally they may simply have learned to suppress or dissociate from feelings of nervous system discomfort/distress and their natural inclinations. For a child with autism who has gone through early behavioral intervention, it could take decades and decades for them to be able to identify and articulate that what they’ve known as “their normal” way of feeling and behaving in the world is actually still taking a tremendous toll on them. On the inside, their experience may not be much different than it would have been without early intervention. The exceptions would be emotional benefits from reduced bullying and techniques to help them learn to deal with emotional dysregulation. I would hypothesize that many of these “early-intervention kids” could go through their younger years with their autism being masked under the radar, only to experience burnout and difficulty in adulthood when, as the DSM-5 states, “social demands exceed limited capacities.” Many high-functioning autistic adults who were not identified as children, yet learned their own “early intervention” skills due to bullying and their own problem-solving skills, have had this exact experience (ex. in response to workplace demands and/or the demands of having children). It sounds like she would learn a lot from gaining more experience talking with high-masking adults to understand their lived experience and how someone can meet all DSM-5 criteria for diagnosis (due to pervasive affects in life) even if you can’t easily see it by talking to them or even being friends with them if they haven’t discussed these things with you. I think she would also benefit from talking with some psychologists that specialize in adult autism diagnosis and treatment. It could certainly help with gaining ideas for future research as the insights these two demographics have to offer are worth their weight in gold. PS - It was also disappointing that she did not at least mention that the data behind autism being more prevalent in males is widely becoming thought of as highly suspect and outdated, due to the historical nature of testing and stereotyping being skewed toward the (most) typical male presentation of autism. She could have at least mentioned that we don’t have good data yet, but the idea of autism being more prevalent in males is something currently being seriously questioned by professionals who work with autistic individuals. While it’s interesting to hear the research being done from the empirical biomedical side of things, I am disappointed in her overall seeming lack of knowledge of the adult autistic experience (and latest realizations) coming from the perspective of clinical psychologists specializing in adult autism. I hope Andrew will have someone on the podcast that can provide more information about this topic (maybe even a psychologist or psychiatrist with ASD, since they are out there).
Thank you for your excellent analysis. I was also disappointed that there appeared to be a misconception about autism in girls and women, as it is expressed so differently than in boys it goes under the radar and is less likely to be detected. I also wanted her to at least mention the effect of co-morbidities, like ADHD, because surely that would affect her research. As far as I can make out, autistic people with ADHD are much worse off in a neurotypical society than those who do not have ADHD. I also wondered exactly for whose benefit is the "treatment" for? To make the parents feel better that their child can be more sociable? How would that affect the person's other autistic traits? As an autistic women myself, I feel that some of my autistic traits are actually a super power, and if I asked if I wanted to trade that in order to be more sociable, it would be a resounding NO.
I am 56. I received an diagnosis of autism about a month ago. The organization that paid for my diagnosis helps people with neurodevelopmental conditions like autism. They are actively trying to find adults like me who grew up when the diagnosis did not cover people with ASD1. It is important to find us, not only because we deserve to be aided and to understand ourselves, but because we are the future of children with autism. There is not enough information about how autism impacts people over the course of a lifetime, and those of us that are older living with autism can supply data to help future generations.
Thank you Andrew and Karen! If I may offer a slightly different perspective, I believe there is actually no LACK OF SOCIAL interest in autism as such. Based on my first-hand observations most (or at least many) individuals with autism are NOT 'asocial', they just cannot function, ie they cannot navigate the complex social environments or engage in social interactions due to upstream problems they have, such as sensory integration or simply brain (or language) processing speed. I personally know several children and adults with autism who CRAVE social interaction and social bonding, but simply cannot keep up and blend with their peers in real time. The outside world is too chaotic for them - neurotypical children play and talk and interact in fast, unpredictable, ever-changing ways. Due to their problems with processing and integrating sensory information from the environment children (or adults) with autism cannot REACT, ie inter-react with other children at the required speed and get left behind. Probably after a while they 'learn' that there is no point in trying. I once closely observed a child with a moderate degree of autism spending outdoor playing time with 20 or so classroom peers. This was not during a school day so it was completely unstructured, not adult-led. Neurotypical children are chaotic and most of the play was VERY fast-changing and without any structure. The child with autism kept trying to understand, and possibly join, other children, but they were just moving too fast from one activity to another. They were talking too fast too. It was sad to watch but it was clear that the child with autism wasn't disinterested but rather simply UNABLE to join in anything that other kids were doing. Please consider social impairment in autism to be a major CONSEQUENCE of sensory integration/language processing/brain energy impairment. So rather than looking at ways to improve 'social interaction' directly, it is important that we instead try to improve things like motor and sensory processing, executive functioning, brain energy /lifting the brain fog etc. (for the scientifically-minded: consider brain glycogen/glucose metabolism, esp astrocytic glycogenesis and lactate shuttle)
This is such a great point, but I do think it’s a mix of both or at varying degrees. My youngest has mild autism and he is able to play with his siblings because they are aware he needs more time to process game play and they tend to play legos and always go over game play rules. At school he is very much isolated during free play mostly due to the fact that as you mentioned other kids thought processes are quick and chaotic and are just overwhelming for him. However there are many situations where he chooses to be in his own even if there are ideal conditions, this could be do a sensory overload at times that he is unable to communicate, but I find a lot of the time it is a preference for him, he doesn’t see social interaction as beneficial where others do. Even with structured play at school he still picks and chooses when he wants to participate, having most of the variables you mentioned not being an issue in that play. It would be interesting to see studies based on game play opportunity for neurodivergent children and studying when they are more likely to socialize and play with others and the times they chose not to if it has to do with the sensory integration/ language processing/brain energy impairment or sensory overload. Social anxiety can be a co-factor for many or is it a consequence of the autism. Lots of unanswered questions but great conversations to have, and I really appreciate your point of view.
All the autistic people I know are like this. They WANT social connection but can't keep up enough to do it and can't do what comes intuitively and effortlessly to others. They may try and become rejected because of their awkwardness or differences that make others uncomfortable. And non-autistic people are seldom going to have the patience, empathy, understanding, and even curiosity to accommodate autistic people. I get it if they are kids because even neurotypically-developing kids have a lot to figure out. But we adults can do better and we can teach better to the kids. After enough years of rejection, autistic people may indeed lose a lot of interest in making social connections--because of society's deficits, not because of their own deficits.
@@carriebirmingham1450 this feels exactly correct. It's not that autistic people desire to be alone (although of course some may), but that they find socialising exhausting and therefore being alone is preferable to being exhausted. I think most autistic people want close connections and to feel accepted and understood.
I mean I was absolutely vehemently a-social as a child. For no reason other than complete lack of interest. That changed around 8-10 yrs old, so maybe that’s the developmental aspect??
Part of being a good social member of society is actually to ignore certain things. ,being able to lie effectively to your peers in ways they approve of. It's really complicated and strange. When we pick up on subtle cues from neurotypical people, it is hard for us to move past that and respond appropriately. Some of us can become good at acting "appropriately". We call this masking, and it is exhausting to us. On the other hand, if we are absorbed in a topic of interest and really into whatever it is we are doing, the outside world mealts away and we not only don't pick up on those subtle cues that can trip us up (and cause anxiety), but also on the overt things that neurotypical people want to have addressed (having us appear insensitive). It's so complicated....I wonder if the vasopressin just dampens both these intensities.
33-year-old here adult diagnosed, and I'm very excited for this episode! Edit: I'm about a half hour in and so far I'm a bit let down with the guest. I'm just going to speak my mind exactly the way I feel in saying she reminds me of so many people I've dealt with over the years who have been extremely frustrating to communicate with because they simply don't know how to understand someone who's brain is wired differently on any level other than this highly clinical and scientific approach that seems to completely ignore the unique qualities of the autistic mind. Maybe I will feel differently as I continue listening but I was really hoping for something more thought-provoking than this. When I was diagnosed it was very difficult to navigate at first because every bit of information I was taking in just made me feel worse about myself as I was realizing just how many things I struggle with and it was until I went through therapy about it and started meeting others that were more similar to myself that I started to feel like it was truly okay to be myself and acknowledge that I'm not limited but rather it's just a little more difficult to navigate a world that wasn't designed for a variety of different-minded people. I hope my response doesn't come across as sounding negative because I'm still very appreciative of this episode, It just wasn't quite the sense of "ah someone who totally gets it" I was deeply hoping for. And perhaps all I was truly hoping for was to hear from someone who has been diagnosed themselves and doesn't come across like they're on the outside looking in. Edit 2: still with it. Definitely starting to get a little bit better as it goes along. The stuff about oxytocin levels and vasopressin was very interesting to me so I'm glad I stuck with it. I feel like they are cracking a bigger nut open here because the deficit of oxytocin resonates strongly. I think the biggest factor we're not looking at is that the world is becoming more and more difficult to navigate because there's more and more of this artificial man-made stuff adding noise to our signal. That's why I feel the least brain fog in nature.
I have this similar struggle in research, I’m an ASD mom with 2/3 ASD kiddos. And I have not heard much discussion around the positive aspects of ASD. I want to know the operational consciousness states of others with ASD I know what I have observed in my own little cluster, if you ask me why I’m not pro-social it’s because I don’t like engaging in weird ego-battles, and playing by imaginary rules. I’m hyper-sensitive to my environment and being around too many people too often can just overload my system. Have they looked at Mirror neurons in ASD, or synesthesia? I have so many more questions!
I'm 80 minutes in and I do not think it gets any better, frankly. The basic presupposition of this episode is that autism is essentially something you would want, or want for your child, to be free of. There's no discussion of how a social system is often the determining factor in making different neurological formations _dis-_ orders. No discussion of what qualities of mind a person with autism can have, or contribution (historical, present, evolutionarily) autism has had to humanity, progress, science, etc.
I have autism. I lead a life doing lots of public speaking, interacting with strangers in sales all day. I am successful at this job, however I do come home and have to decompress for hours after a day of intense masking. My family refused to allow me to seek any professional help growing up due to the stigma around it, so I adapted by doing a lot of my own reading and research and teaching myself how to be a “normal” human. Super looking forward to this episode.
Wow. Commendable. Your use of the word "masking" is so...perfect. My youngest son is exhausted by most interactions with strangers and I'm striving to support him in every way I can. I need to get him to a qualified health care provider but since my/our G.P. retired we are in limbo in that we do not presently have a G.P. nor any means to vet the competence of various health care providers. I'll have to redouble my efforts.
Thank you. I appreciate your insight, especially taking on a job working in sales. It would be interesting to read about your experience and insight on customers' human behavior. I'm a regular grandmother and dread shopping around rude people. I hope you are well compensated when you give talks. We need your perspective.
@@rosarioc.debaca1935 I will be honest, I can turn myself off from feeling a lot of things in the moment while I’m masking and being “sales version” of me. I think maybe it’s because it takes so much energy I don’t have the ability to perceive myself when I’m working so hard to perceive everything else around me, but I’m no scientist so I’m not sure. I don’t notice how rude people are until much later in the day when I go home and decompress and reassess the emotions and things I experienced in the day. I have a default in me to perceive most things as positive. I’ve had many one sided friendships (think 4 years of me considering someone a top friend) to discover those folks actually couldn’t stand me! 😂 I laugh about it now and I have no idea if this is the same for anyone else, maybe other folks default to assuming the negative. I know that there are a lot of wounds there that have made me more cautious, and yet it doesn’t affect me in the moment when I’m “on”. It makes me really damn good at what I do, at least.
I was very excited to see that there is finally an episode on autism. I have been eagerly awaiting this episode, and was thrilled to see that it had finally been made. Unfortunately, I was incredibly disappointed. The research on vasopressin in voles is interesting, but that was the only positive aspect of this episode. So much of what was included is incredibly ableist. It feels very much like the decision to interview Dr. Parker had more to do with Dr. Huberman's familiarity with her rather than her actual knowledge. She herself says that she does not work with autistic people and is not familiar with the lived experiences of members of the community. I hope that Dr. Huberman takes the time to reexamine this topic with the inclusion of autistic voices. Autistic adults exist and there are an incredible number of autistic adults in this field of study who would be much better options as guests. Autism does not go away in adulthood. Some of us learn to mask such that our disabilities become more internal and thus less visible to others, but that does not mean we are no longer autistic. It is dehumanizing and infantilizing to not include us in research and discussions about us. Additionally, Dr. Parker describes the parents involved in the creation of Autism Speaks as "heroes". Autism Speaks is widely regarded as a hate group. They push ABA as a "treatment" which has been repeatedly proven to be actively harmful to autistic people. The focus on conformity instead of accepting autistic people for who we are and focusing on our strengths, is inherently harmful. I would suggest Dr. Huberman read about the medical versus the social model of disability. Being autistic is not an issue by itself. The way society is structured is what is disabling about being autistic. In our current society, there are situations in which masking becomes necessary especially for those of us who fall into other minority groups or do not have the financial security to navigate getting a diagnosis, or establishing a life that allows us the freedom to be ourselves. Learning those skills can be valuable, but being required to use them is fundamentally wrong. Being autistic is not a disease; variation within any species is normal and important. The discussion of possible "treatment" options requires a lot more nuance than is provided in this episode. I also believe that several important factors were missed in this discussion, such as the prevalence of ADHD in autistic people, the reasons why there are fewer AFAB people diagnosed with autism, how to actually support autistic people, monotropism, stimming, the double empathy problem, etc. I would recommend the book But You Don't Look Autistic at All by Bianca Toeps for a quick read that provides insight on one autistic person's lived experience, and I would recommend the journal Autism in Adulthood for academic papers on the topic. I would also recommend having any of the following people on the podcast for a more in depth and meaningful perspective on autism: - Dr. Robert Chapman - Dr. Sandra Jones - Dr. Monique Botha - Dr. Heather Brown - Dr. Sue Fletcher-Watson - Dr. Joey Lawrence - Dr. Marjorie Desormeaux-Moreau (I have only listened to her speak in french, but I gather she speaks english too) - Dr. Aimee Grant I'm sure other people have other suggestions to add here. I would love for other autistic people to reply to this comment to add their suggestions for autistic autism researchers who would make good guests for this podcast!
Spot on! The views on autism (and autists!) represented by Dr. Parker might as well be from 100 years ago :( I hope your suggestions will be taken on board and a new episode with a more enlightened view on autism will come out at some point
Incredibly well said. Thank you. Unfortunately I don't have any specific recommendations for guests, but for all the reasons you covered as a late dx autistic adult I felt disappointed in this episode.
I scrolled down with disappointment to see if others felt the same and yours was the first comment. Thank you for such a well-said response. I definitely concur with all of this and hope he takes these suggestions into consideration!
Yes, yes yes. All this. AuDHD woman here. I'm really tired of hearing of autism constantly through the allistic viewpoint, and Autism Speaks as being a go-to for info about autism.
My 2 year old daughter has been diagnosed with "moderate" autism. Since the diagnosis, I've been consuming everything I can get my hands on related to understanding the condition. As one of my favorite content creators, I'm absolutely elated that you've decided to cover this topic.... Thank you.
I don't want a cure. I want support. I desire social interaction, but am not accepted. I would love to hear more from the perspective of people who are actually autistic. please.
Well autistic people who literally self harm and are disabled by the condition may want a cure/effective treatments. There’s only so much society can change, the world is still a harsh place for many autistic people no matter how “socially acceptable” it is, sensory stuff still hurts.
@@jlllx I’m more so referring to the fact that the methods they are using are to try and fix “deficits” and comparing autism to alzheimer’s. Instead of giving autistic people drugs to change their brains maybe we could give more social and behavioral supports.
I'm an adult and I've recently discovered that I am autistic. As a long time fan of this podcast, I was very excited about this episode. I feel disappointed by the structure and focus points of this episode, however. I was hoping for something as comprehensive as other Huberman Lab podcasts, that would answer at least some of the million questions I have about autism. Instead I got a very long and very specific lecture on how taking oxytocin may or may not help autistic children, interlaced with outdated misconceptions. Nothing I could relate to. The comment section is useful however. I am really enjoying all the autistic straightforwardness here
This is an odd episode to digest as an autist married to an autist raising two audhd kiddos. On the one hand I love knowing the whys of how things work and understanding autism mechanisms can only be beneficial. I’m also aware that there’s myriad experiences and if a child is stimming to the extent they hurt themselves it’s a very different experience to a kid who needs to jump and move regularly. And that parents raising kids with much more intense or harmful behaviours would want to mitigate them. But there seems to be no mention of self advocacy or that adult autists view curing autism very negatively and that autism speaks is considered a hate group and ABA to be inherently abusive/harmful (although practitioners vary wildly). It was also alienating to listen to the research details in terms of “we could make voles more social, could we make autists more social?”. I’m often frustrated beyond words that autism is classed as a disorder with communication deficits when umpteen autism advocates will point out that we’re often clearer in our communication than allistic ppl. And to be clear I’d love to ease some of my kids struggles that negatively impact them but I don’t want to cure them to allistic versions of themselves and this entire conversation ignored social changes that would benefit autists. Very conflicted about how this was covered.
Thank-you Savannah. As an auadhd adult, and an extroverted one at that I also struggled with this episode. Personally, I've come to appreciate that the majority of my social challenges arise from my sensory processing challenges. Consequently, most of my accommodations centre around understanding and where possible, intervening in my sensory experiences. If covering this topic in future, I would hope for greater consideration of the concept of neurodiversity. I do not consider my brain diseased. Nothing about us without us.
Exactly my thoughts. I don’t know why it is so important to make us more social. I also wholeheartedly agree that we autists are much clearer with communication than neurotypical people, so it would be maybe better if they get pumped with some drugs to make them stop saying one thing and meaning something different. Sarcasm off - I’m also really disappointed in this episode. We don’t need fixing, just a little more tolerance. This regime of neurotypical people is cruel and suffocating, just let us be ourselves and we will be fine. Just because I don’t like you, doesn’t mean I need a cure for it. I understand wanting to treat an intellectual disability, but while prevalent in autistic people - it’s NOT part of autism, so I feel that scientists are focusing on a wrong thing altogether. Just leave us alone, I don’t need any drugs, thank you.
I wish I could 'like' this comment 1000x over. Beautifully put. I'm possibly adhd, but with several audhd peeps running through my family. I was hoping for more with this episode, and as I was listening I was asleep getting feelings of frustration with some of the terms used that also left me feeling like ND people were being dehumanised, and misrepresented. 😢
I wish I could 'like' this comment 1000x over. Beautifully put. I'm possibly adhd, but with several audhd peeps running through my family. I was hoping for more with this episode, and as I was listening I was asleep getting feelings of frustration with some of the terms used that also left me feeling like ND people were being dehumanised, and misrepresented. 😢
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 07:06 🧬 *Autism rates have increased, with 1 in 36 U.S. children diagnosed with autism, indicating a significant rise in recent years.* 09:19 🧠 *Autism is diagnosed primarily based on behavioral criteria, focusing on pervasive social interaction challenges and restricted repetitive behavior.* 17:58 🧠 *Autism's underlying biological basis remains complex and multifaceted, making it challenging to identify specific neural networks or mechanisms.* 19:30 🧬 *Environmental factors, such as advanced parental age, prematurity, and maternal illness during pregnancy, can increase the risk of autism.* 20:56 🧬 *Developing sophisticated animal models and non-human primate models can provide valuable insights into autism research.* 22:46 🌿 *Prenatal environmental influences, including neuron migration during early development, may play a role in autism, although research in this area remains limited.* 22:48 🧠 *Neuronal migration during embryo development is crucial for brain wiring. Some research suggested a possible correlation between increased early prenatal ultrasounds and autism.* 27:08 🤝 *Oxytocin and vasopressin, small neuropeptides, play essential roles in social behavior, bonding, and various physiological processes across species.* 37:59 🤱 *Oxytocin has been associated with mother-infant bonding and uterine contractions during birth. Its release in response to specific events like vaginal delivery can influence bonding.* 45:36 🧠 *Oxytocin has been studied for its potential to diminish the amygdala's response to fearful stimuli, which may have pro-social effects.* 46:57 🧒 *Autistic children can vary in their social behavior, with some forming close friendships and being pro-social with specific friends while feeling uncomfortable in noisy or crowded settings.* 48:30 🤝 *Different phenotypes of autism exist, with some individuals being socially avoidant, others being socially active but odd in their interactions, and some having disinterest in social interactions.* 50:39 💊 *Oxytocin nasal spray administration is typically done in research settings, and it's not available over the counter. It requires a prescription from a physician.* 53:29 🔄 *Autism can have a lifelong impact, but some individuals may outgrow their diagnosis, respond well to behavioral therapy, or exhibit variability in their social functioning.* 01:05:17 🩺 *Oxytocin treatment's effectiveness in autism may depend on an individual's baseline oxytocin levels, which can vary, and more research is needed to determine its safety and long-term benefits for children with autism.* 01:08:03 🧪 *Psilocybin, MDMA, and atypical anti-depressants are being explored in trials for children with autism to potentially rewire the brain and improve their condition.* 01:08:45 📊 *Autism is a heterogeneous condition, making it challenging to identify suitable participants for trials and determine the best treatments.* 01:09:28 🧒 *Oxytocin may be most effective in younger children due to neuroplasticity, potentially offering maximum benefits at a younger age.* 01:10:24 🏥 *Early autism screening and intervention are crucial, but long clinic wait times hinder timely diagnosis and treatment.* 01:11:35 🩺 *Developing laboratory-based tests or biomarker panels could help prioritize children at risk for autism and expedite diagnoses and interventions.* 01:12:44 🧒 *Challenges in making behavioral testing for autism pervasive include scalability, the need for specialized clinicians, and resource disparities.* 01:15:44 💊 *The potential use of MDMA, with its serotonin release and neuroplasticity effects, in autism treatment is a topic of interest but faces challenges, especially in children.* 01:21:06 🧠 *Vasopressin, similar to oxytocin, is produced in the human brain and body, with receptors distributed throughout the brain.* 01:22:28 👨👧👦 *Vasopressin can induce bonding and paternal care in male prairie voles, showing its role in social behavior.* 01:26:08 🐭 *Vasopressin, when administered to male voles, dramatically increases their paternal caregiving behavior, demonstrating the peptide's potent effects.* 01:28:30 🐒 *Dr. Karen Parker discusses the origins of funding for autism research, including philanthropic contributions from organizations like Autism Speaks and individuals like Jim Simons.* 01:30:33 🧪 *Blood oxytocin levels are not a reliable marker for autism, as they vary widely even among people without autism, challenging the oxytocin deficit hypothesis.* 01:31:54 🔬 *Dr. Parker emphasizes the importance of focusing on social challenges and neuropeptide deficits in autism research rather than getting caught up in diagnostic labels.* 01:32:47 🧠 *Exploring neuropeptides like vasopressin may offer valuable insights into understanding and treating autism, potentially more so than oxytocin.* 01:38:31 🐵 *Dr. Parker discusses the establishment of a primate model for autism research, emphasizing the need for species-appropriate models for complex behaviors.* 01:47:48 🧪 *Biomarker discovery in monkeys allowed researchers to differentiate between socially low and high monkeys, opening possibilities for identifying similar markers in humans with social challenges.* 01:52:28 🚸 *The research suggests that low levels of vasopressin in cerebral spinal fluid could be a biomarker for autism.* 01:57:47 💡 *Infants who later received an autism diagnosis had lower CSF vasopressin levels, indicating a potential early biomarker.* 02:03:03 🧪 *Further research is needed to determine if vasopressin replacement therapy could be beneficial for individuals with autism.* 02:08:50 💊 *Studies are being conducted to explore potential drug interactions with vasopressin and alternative therapies to release vasopressin naturally.* 02:10:10 🧪 *Dr. Karen Parker conducted a study using vasopressin as a potential treatment for autism in children, aiming to improve social responsiveness.* 02:11:47 🧒 *In the study, vasopressin was administered twice a day for four weeks to children aged 6 to 12 with autism, and the primary outcome measure was the Social Responsiveness Scale (SRS).* 02:12:55 🧩 *The SRS assesses various aspects of social behavior in children with autism, such as social interactions, initiation, gaze, and restrictive repetitive behaviors.* 02:14:32 🧪 *Children with autism who received vasopressin treatment showed improvements in social abilities, as reported by parents, clinicians, and laboratory-based tests.* 02:15:56 🚀 *Some children also experienced reduced anxiety and diminished restricted repetitive behaviors, indicating potential broader effects of vasopressin treatment.* 02:19:26 🤔 *The mechanism of action of vasopressin in improving social behavior and cognition in autism is not yet fully understood, and further research is needed to explore brain circuits and receptors involved.* 02:28:03 🦠 *There is some intriguing mouse research suggesting that the gut microbiome may play a role in social deficits, and probiotics could potentially impact oxytocin and vasopressin levels in the brain, affecting social behavior.* 02:31:15 🧠 *Gut microbiota diversity can influence gene expression of oxytocin and vasopressin in the hypothalamus through the vagal pathway, potentially linking the microbiome to social behavior.* 02:32:20 🧪 *Exploring the use of vagal nerve stimulation in autistic individuals to investigate its potential impact on social behavior and related blood level changes.* 02:34:29 💰 *Funding challenges and the need for increased support for research on autism treatment, especially during critical developmental windows in children.* 02:35:11 📊 *The use of open-label extension arms in medication trials for autism to ensure that all participants have access to the drug and to gather additional data.* 02:36:20 💩 *Ongoing research into fecal transplants as a potential treatment for autism, along with investigations into oxytocin nasal spray and vasopressin administration.* 02:38:11 💉 *Roche's study using a vasopressin V1a receptor antagonist to treat autism and how it contrasts with Dr. Karen Parker's research, which aims to increase vasopressin levels.* 02:47:02 💉 *The history of the vaccine-autism controversy, including Andrew Wakefield's fraudulent study, the subsequent debunking, and the lack of scientific support for vaccines causing autism.* 02:52:34 🧒 *Administering vasopressin to low social functioning children in a small study resulted in symptom improvement, indicating a potential causal relationship.* 02:53:01 🌟 *Dr. Karen Parker's dedication to tackling the complexities of autism research and her efforts to explore novel treatments, despite funding challenges, is crucial for progress in the field.* 02:53:42 🙏 *Gratitude for Dr. Parker's valuable insights and commitment to advancing our understanding of autism's biological foundations and potential treatments. The hope for future updates on her research progress.*
As many others were, i was quite disappointed in this one as an autistic adult. The guest seems to approach, or at least speak, as if autistic individuals can only be animalistically observed in order to learn about them. There are MANY of us that can speak through our experiences and would love to educate people on our differences. Behavior is only what is observed which is why so many of us who were "well-behaved" or "high-functioning" dont get the diagnosis, knowledge of ourselves, or resources we need. This is why its misinterpreted as being grown-out of ad well. The coping and social learning makes the "autistic behaviors" (struggles) go away but the bottom up, detail oriented, literalist brain stays forever. In my opinion calling this a behavior disorder is so minimizing. Those behaviors happen as a result of the brain processing and external factors.
I’m an autistic adult watching this and I’m jolted everything time I hear things like ‘challenge of the brain’, ‘brain disorder’, ‘migration error of neurones’, ‘risk factors’ for autism…etc. It actually makes me sick. So casually talking about people like they are failed humans. Can we please stop with the deficit model, like neurotypical is the ideal? So many successful neurodiverse folks. The medical model is cruel. Please listen to yourselves and check your language.
@@TDL-xg5nn You're incorrect. The medical model of autism is looking at it as being a disorder that can someday be cured. Neurodiversity movement is a model of autism that thinks of autism has a difference.
Several parents of autistic children have said ABA therapy was actually harmful to their child. I personally chose not to go that route. I’m autistic and so are my three children. We prefer to stay at home and work on social issues at the pace that is appropriate for each child. Diet and constant affection helps with oxytocin. The introduction of pet cats and dogs into the family for more affection opportunities has been fantastic in our household. I was never diagnosed as a child and made it through college and motherhood without being aware I was autistic. It only got hard for me postpartum as I continued to mask trying to keep up with the superhuman stoic ideal I had committed myself to since childhood. Motherhood had left very little time for healthy left hemisphere activities. Being more conscious of how I spend my “me” time and becoming self aware of overlooked behaviors and symptoms has been the best therapy.
ASD male here. That is so beautiful. The happiest I remember being was spending time with a bunch of animals on a ranch. Cats, dogs, horses, chickens... I connected with them a few years back when I was 20 and it was so elating. A good time productively as a result. I myself miss having a dog around the home.
I dont even remember how many times I spammed the comment section asking Andrew to release episodes for Autism & Intellectual/Learning Disabilities. Thankyou Andrew for finally releasing this episode and helping the parents around the world with this much awaited discussion ❤
Huberman has asked that people request topics which they would like to see discussed....and he has reassured that he DOES read comments...and this episode (and others, presented previously) prove that he is a man of his word. ❤
I found being on spectrum I could learn fast than others once I leaned in to autistic side. Just look spaced out and absorb information. When masking I pretend to look like I'm paying attention but I'm not paying attention at all and putting all my energy in keeping the mask up. I also stim a lot when learning. In post secondary I did this when I realized I'm paying to be so I'll learn how I learn. In school I had to mask or be punished.
Oh goodness… I just hope Dr Humerman is reading all feedback- I love the podcast and have been waiting for autism to be covered. This episode was so ableist. I am shocked. I have faith that this will be an opportunity and when ‘we know better, we do better’- and many can learn from you taking feedback from the autistic community. I look forward to you learning more and then sharing your new awareness and understandings.
Totally agree! I was really disappointed by this episode. I hope Dr. Huberman takes this opportunity to do another episode interviewing an autistic adult in the field. There is so much problematic with this episode, and I'm glad to see members of the autistic community commenting about it.
Can't emphasize this enough. I do not have autism but I'm very close to people that do, and I found this episode very frustrating. I'm only 80 minutes in and I'm questioning whether to listen any longer, given the whole episode presupposes: this is something that needs to be treated; if you have a kid with autism, you deserve and should want treatment options. They acknowledge the heterogeneity of how autism presents, but apparently not that many people with autism see their differences as positive, as historically and presently very significant for humanity, and as "disordered" chiefly to the extent that social norms punish them.
As an autistic myself I couldn't listen further then 20minutes in ... disorder? High functioning? No thanks ... thanks for the person, who did the Key Takeaways from sparing me to having to listen to somebody talking about "philanthropic contributions from organizations like Autism Speaks" ... wow ... just wow. I really hope he talks to an actually autistic researcher.
I realize there’s a lot of material to cover but just saying there are “less females” without touching on how females present so differently that they go undiagnosed for DECADES, ( even though they meet all DSM criteria), is very disappointing. Girls present VASTLY different than boys and often are so much better at masking autism that they can spend their whole lives suffering in silence, and being misdiagnosed to their detriment
I think that's very important in the greater conversation about autism, but this conversation is based around pure research. As a research scientist, she can only speak on research that currently exist. I think they make it pretty clear that we're just beginning to understand autism and still have a long way to go.
@@tiptapkey same. I was 50. I would’ve been happy with 2 sentences addressing it. It’s definitely one of the reasons why there are suddenly more autistics.
Autism is a very misunderstood disorder in society. And this podcast completely reflects that... There was barely any explanation on what autism is. Aside from social behavior. Which is only a small aspect of autism. And not everyone with autism has the same problems with social behavior. I feel this podcast is only going to make the misunderstanding worse. Also treatment? There is managing the symptoms, and that's it really. Treating autism in its entirety would also mean changing personality. If there was treatment available, I would absolutely decline! I am myself. And I'm not going to change myself because others don't want to take the effort to understand who I am!
Autisitc Adult-why are children referenced the majority of the time autism is discussed? The autism doesn’t go away…the child with autism grows up. Infant, toddler, child, teenager, young adult, adult, elderly…what does the current stage in the life of the autistic individual have to do with anything? It feels as though the world wants us to just disappear. “We will address this issue as long as we can keep it as sympathetic as possible…let’s talk about the children”
I'm ASD, and I can personally share that chronic neural inflammation (i.e. stress) and/or neural stress (GABA Glycine avail) are primary factor for me personally.
YES YES and YES Thanks so much for bringing this up. Many are not aware that much of what they think of as autism symptoms is actually inflammation, plus magnesium, sulphoraphane/glutothione deficiency symptoms which are more likely in people with autism
@@zacet I personally take astaxanthin, omega-3, Glycine, NAC, collagen, Magnesium, Salt, and Potassium (Be careful here). It is important to note that I practice low carb eating, and make most of my food, so my natural salt intake is essentially zero from food. I eat blueberries, green veg, eggs, and olive oil every day. In the evenings, I sometimes take 5-htp and GABA before bed, but have not needed it recently. This stack essentially makes me a different human being. I can't emphasize enough how I literally feel like I have a different, more relaxed, more even, personality if I am "on diet". Interestingly, I think I like my ASD. I am very creative, and have many ideas all the time (like drinking from a firehose). So, I noticed (and can't explain) a personal dip in creativity when "healthy" -- not in some kind of sedated way -- just in what feels like a normal way. So I sometimes go off diet or supplements when I have a tough analytical problem to dig into for some days, to let the beast out of the cage. However, I also know how to "get back on track" when I find life is so overwhelming I feel the urge to turn my phone off and hide in my room / quit my job. Having this control, and self knowledge, has been life changing. Hope you / everyone finds what works for them.
@@leniolesch896 I personally used to a lot, but then I found Glycine made me feel a similar way, so I now lean more heavily into collagen and glycine. I do still take GABA near bed when I want an extra good sleep -- or if I am having a horrid day, I sometimes stack GABA + 5-htp and go for a jog / hot bath (I'm lucky I work from home) to give my system a mid day come down.
I've been listening to this podcast since the first episode, and almost since that point I've been dreading this episode as an autistic person. I just knew you were going to have someone on who is allistic, who subscribes to the deficit / medical model of autism, who thinks it's a disease that needs to be "cured" or "treated," who blatantly ignores the research AND lived experiences of millions of autistic people who don't fit the assumptions (often incorrect) that allistic people make about us... yet even though I expected it, it's still exceedingly disappointing. Autism is a complicated topic, but it's still SO EASY to discuss in a way that isn't dehumanizing and harmful. Yet for some unknown reason, it's still rare to see neurotypical people do so... and meanwhile we're supposedly the ones with social problems and lack of empathy. Amazing.
social problems and lack of empathy, they are 2 things my son does not have, he just shows it , expresses these things in a slightly different way to those who consider themselves as 'normal', whatever these people define as normal. I totally understand why you feel this way x
I agree. I think he will be hearing from hundreds of autistic adults on this one. Two neurotypical people (I assume) talking about autistic people and autistic brains from the outside, from appearances, from behaviors, are going to miss an entire world of important information.
@@carriebirmingham1450 Exactly - on top of how damaging this kind of conversation on a platform like he has is, they are also just simply missing a lot of very obvious explanations for things that they could easily have gotten if they just asked any random autistic person.
I am a 50 year old Aspie. My father is autistic. His father was autistic, and my great grandfather was autistic. If you’re trying to cure a genetic line, you’re going down the wrong path.
Im autistic and I appreciated the whole podcast; except your last sentence that this is how diseases are cured - autism is not a disease and as dibilitating as it can be sometimes for myself, Ive never considered it a disease that i need or wish to cure. As I said in an comment below, I also feel that the concept of early integration to change and modify behaviour and what will end up as not only behaviour but personality changes to the individual child are disrespectful to the child's natural functional capacity - there's nothing inherently wrong with an autistic child and therefore what will soon become an autistic adult - it is those of the neurotypical that consider changes and modification necessary to integrate into societal norms and standards of their way of life - and we are learning more each day this is of no benefit when 20% of the worlds population are neurodivergent. We have our own strengths and i dont consider stamping out our inherent experience a positive aspect of behavioural change. we should be integrating education and understanding/ empathy for autistic people - not segregation until proven compliant of structural expectation.
@@franca2468 i think it highly ignorant to assume I dont have troubles with my fucntional capacity. Even if "other are not like me"; no, theyre not. They dont have my trauma of rape or growing up in a drug-related violent household. But they sure as hell are on a spectrum of constantly minsunderstanding, misaligned communication, dysfuntional regulatiotory systems and distress/overwhelmed from "regular" experiences in societal standards of living and a host of other shit that is exhausting to live with let alone feel like you have to justify or explain to people.
Dr. Parker, I appreciate you doing research on autism, as we certainly need more of it, and it's good to see increased awareness and willingness to understand. However, throughout the video, I felt we were dehumanized, as you did not once discuss the perspective of autistic individuals. I was hoping to better understand: On what basis do you want to improve "social performance" and what are the goals - is it quantity of interactions, understanding social cues, avoiding exhaustion, etc? Autistic people may have a lower needs in terms of quantity to socialise than neurotypical people - although not always. Or we may be content with different types of interactions than neurotypical people. Are you suggesting it's bad if that's the case? Do you think there is a case in your research for appreciating our own preferences while supporting us with our genuine struggles? Also, you only referenced conversations with parents - do you ever ask participants about their experiences before, during and after experiments? Understanding if they feel better afterwards seems an essential indicator. I know this is biological research, but we are not just monkeys or mice or voles to observe - we can speak and provide invaluable insights that observations alone may miss. It will be fascinating to see your continued results and if you eventually incorporate participant feedback. This could strengthen your work by ensuring it aligns with the priorities of those you aim to serve - as I sincerely hope it's not just the parents you're trying to please.
Dr. Huberman - May I also suggest inviting Dr. Devon Price for a discussion about autism? It would be interesting to capture another perspecitve and I'd be curious to learn about their take on this research. Thank you for this conversation!
Very well said! My thoughts exactly. Also, the quick mention of behavioral therapy as being able to "lessen" someone's autism was also a bit shocking to me. Just because someone was coerced into behaving differently, often through inhumane means, does not mean they're cured because they have learned to push through and suppress.
disappointing episde- the focus was on autism as something bad- a medical problem. We are the technological innovators, the creators, the outside the box thinkers and artists. Undiagnosed autistic people are actually over represented in medicine and academia. We are all around you, Andrew. Please try again with some respect for our struggles. Instead of hopping on the funding bandwagon to prove what's 'wrong' with us, how 'bout giving us some help in dealing with our overwhelmingly disabling society & environments we occupy.
While this was very interesting, I find it disappointing that a) there was no information about females masking and b) there was not one piece of information that relates to neurodivergent adults, not one! There seems to be an expectation, that autism magically disappears on the 18th birthday of a person. If only it would. While it is of course important to help kids, who are on the spectrum, it would be lovely, if someone would also consider adults on the spectrum.
@@Livinginthegrayarea I just checked how many papers in Pubmed contained the terms "adult*" and "autism" in their title. 38 hits. Of course those are not all papers since I did not use all kinds of search terms, but this is already very depressing. I do not know of any other medical condition, where an entire group is being ignored. Even if we all agreed to utilise all resources only on neurodivergent children, these children will become adults some day. And then what?
Female masking is not a biological it's a social phenomenon. Even I did not mask unil the culture in my country changed to a western culture that is basically a "social crusader" kind of culture that is actively dictating people how to live. While autism IS biological and so it makes total sense to focus on children if you want to understand the condition that is biological in nature
Dr Parker? Why? @ruthhorowitz7625 I noticed above that you have written a book on autism so that answered my 2nd question, which was to be, ‘are you autistic?’ Curious to know what you find so offensive about the doctor - or perhaps her field of study or expertise?
I have an adopted son with autism, and though this podcast was very interesting and well made, as all of Andrew Huberman 's. podcast, I found it of a very little practical value. Obviously I expected too much, there is no miracle cure😢😢😢
2:43:00 As a mother of a son with autism,-I do not believe vaccines CAUSE autism, but I do believe that administering these vaccines as a one size fits all, without looking at the child’s genetics, can be (and has been) dangerous. In the same way that one person can take a medication and be fine, while another has an adverse or even fatal, reaction to it, can the same not be true for vaccines ? Maybe we’re asking the wrong question. Not “Do vaccines cause autism” but “can vaccines contribute to the development of autism in children who already have a genetic predisposition for it”…especially since we know genes can be turned on/off based on external factors like environmental, etc.
They do. There's too much research showing how the development of the baby in utero is affected by what mom is exposed to. And they now have lawsuits out about the connection between Tylenol and autism. Its gaslighting parents who literally take their healthy normal child in to get their shots, only to end up with a child who immediately starts showing signs of illness and regression. The amount of ppl who gaslight parents or even adults, about vaccine injuries, is kind of alarming. Even now there's a new syndrome they are calling post vaccine syndrome after getting the COVID shots, cause of all the adverse effects ppl are having from those.
00:00 🧠 Autism diagnoses have increased, partly due to improved early detection, with children now diagnosed around ages 2-3 compared to 9-10 in the past. 07:06 📈 Autism rates in the US have risen to 1 in 36 children, with a higher prevalence among boys. 09:51 🔄 Autism diagnosis relies on behavioral signs: social interaction challenges and restricted repetitive behaviors, assessed by psychiatrists or psychologists. 10:47 🧒 Early behavioral interventions for autism often follow diagnosis, but some studies explore interventions with at-risk infants from families with prior autism cases. 12:25 📊 Studies show a higher occurrence of autistic traits in individuals from STEM fields like engineering, suggesting a link between certain professions and higher autistic traits. 15:26 🎭 Autism presents diverse traits, suggesting a spectrum across various dimensions rather than just severity, including neurodivergence and a range of behaviors. 17:19 🧬 Autism's biological basis is complex; it's associated with genetic variants, potentially linked to synaptic alterations, but studying it in the brain remains challenging. 19:47 🧠 Modeling autism in animals has limitations, as control animals often lack human-like characteristics necessary to mirror the disorder accurately. 21:53 🤰 Environmental factors like advanced parental age, prematurity, and maternal illness during pregnancy are associated with increased autism risk, highlighting gene-environment interactions. 23:16 🤰 Ultrasounds during pregnancy have been linked to potential migration errors in neurons, suggesting a correlation between ultrasound frequency and autism incidence. 24:41 🧬 Autism studies face complexity due to diverse genetic backgrounds; stratified trials and targeted medication testing in specific subgroups are necessary for accurate conclusions. 27:37 🔄 Conditions like Timothy Syndrome show autism linked with heart issues, raising questions on whether autism might be a spectrum of various disorders rather than a singular condition. 29:54 🧩 The challenge lies in defining autism biologically; behavioral diagnoses complicate understanding the condition's varied forms and origins. 38:13 🤝 Oxytocin's role in bonding varies across species; in primates, it might not be solely triggered by birth events, emphasizing the complexities of bonding mechanisms. 44:09 🧠 While oxytocin's involvement in bonding is presumed in humans, its specific effects and receptor locations in the brain remain a subject of study, requiring more targeted research methods for accurate insights. 45:49 🧠 Oxytocin's initial perception as a "love hormone" shifted to exploring its role in trust and social behavior. 46:31 🧠 Oxytocin potentially reduces the amygdala's output, impacting threat perception and favoring pro-social behavior. 47:11 🧩 Autistic children might show discomfort in noisy, crowded settings but exhibit strong social connections with specific friends. 48:05 🧩 Subtypes of social features in autism include social avoidant behavior, difficulty reading social cues, and interactions leading to bullying. 49:28 🧠 Initial studies administered oxytocin to males due to safety concerns but indicated potential positive effects on individuals with autism. 50:39 🧠 Oxytocin nasal spray requires prescription; currently, no drugs treating the core features of autism are available. 53:01 🧩 Autism's impact can be lifelong, but some individuals outgrow the diagnosis, responding well to behavioral therapy. 56:04 🧠 Studies indicate a potential benefit from oxytocin treatment in individuals with lower baseline blood oxytocin levels. 01:03:12 🧠 Oxytocin appears relatively safe in pediatric populations, but identifying potential beneficiaries and wider prescription usage pose challenges. 01:06:27 🧠 Neuroplasticity-focused approaches beyond oxytocin, like those seen in depression treatments, could hold promise in addressing autism's social symptoms. 01:08:18 🧠 Medications like MDMA and atypical antidepressants are explored in autism treatment, not due to deficiencies but to potentially rewire the brain. 01:09:14 🧪 Oxytocin might be most effective in younger ages, emphasizing potential benefits during early childhood for autistic children. 01:10:24 🕒 Early autism screening accessibility and reducing clinic wait times are crucial for timely intervention, potentially impacting long-term outcomes. 01:11:06 🧬 Developing laboratory-based biomarker panels for early autism detection and intervention is a critical need in current diagnostics. 01:12:44 🧑⚕ Accessibility to autism testing is limited due to the extensive training required for expert diagnoses, causing disparities in diagnoses based on socio-economic factors. 01:15:59 💊 Exploring MDMA or similar compounds for autism treatment faces challenges due to parental reluctance regarding psychedelic medications for children. 01:17:25 🧠 Vasopressin, similar to oxytocin, plays a crucial role in social behavior and bonding, but it has received less attention in comparison. 01:22:41 🐭 Vasopressin's role in paternal behavior was observed in male voles, inducing attentive fathering behavior when administered, showcasing its potent influence on behavior. 01:26:08 🔍 Brain circuitry's latent potential and the role of peptides as switches highlight the complexity and potential of existing neural networks in behavior regulation. 01:28:43 🧬 Dr. Karen Parker entered autism research through investigating social interaction impairments and their potential connection to neuropeptides like oxytocin. 01:30:19 🧠 Blood oxytocin isn't a clear marker for autism; lower levelsseem linked to social difficulties regardless of diagnosis. 01:31:40 🎯 Shifting focus from the diagnosis of autism to understanding social challenges in both children and adults provides insights into neuropeptide deficits and their potential role. 01:35:33 🐒 Exploring primate models for autism, especially in old world monkeys, offers a more relevant approach compared to relying solely on rodent models. 01:41:29 💡 Validation of a monkey model for autism with behaviors mirroring autistic traits lays a foundation for better understanding and treatment development. 01:45:06 💊 The limitations of relying solely on rodent models for medication testing highlight the importance of considering primate models for more accurate predictions of human responses. 01:49:39 🧬 Vasopressin levels in cerebral spinal fluid are indicative of social functioning, distinguishing high or low social behavior in monkeys. 01:51:05 🐒 Grooming behavior in monkeys indicates social bonds, with low vasopressin levels correlating to less grooming time. 01:52:15 🧠 Research explored translating observations from monkey studies into human insight, focusing on cerebral spinal fluid (CSF) levels of vasopressin in autism. 01:56:09 📊 CSF vasopressin levels showed potential as a biomarker for autism, displaying high accuracy in classifying individuals. 01:57:47 🚸 Low CSF vasopressin levels were consistent across genders in individuals with autism, correlating with greater social symptom severity.
02:01:26 🧪 Studying CSF vasopressin levels in infants prior to behavioral symptoms of autism aims to explore early biomarkers and intervention potential. 02:03:31 💧 CSF vasopressin levels are hypothesized to indicate production issues in autism, potentially influencing social development trajectories. 02:06:31 🚽 Investigating potential excessive urination in autistic children might reveal insights into vasopressin's peripheral actions, supplementing autism diagnosis. 02:08:22 🌐 Research explores alternative therapies or medications to modulate vasopressin levels for potential autism treatment. 02:10:37 🧬 Vasopressin, in controlled doses, showed potential effects on social abilities in children with autism in a trial setting. 02:11:47 🧪 The Social Responsiveness Scale (SRS) was used as a primary outcome measure in the trial, assessing social interaction and behaviors in children with autism. 02:14:32 📈 Vasopressin treatment led to increased social abilities reported by parents, clinicians, and observed in laboratory-based tests in treated children with autism. 02:15:56 🧠 Responses to vasopressin treatment varied among children; some showed improved social skills, reduced anxiety, and diminished repetitive behaviors, while others didn't respond significantly. 02:21:17 🤔 Nasal spray delivered vasopressin in the trial, targeting brain circulation, although the mechanism behind its effects on social cognition remains unclear. 02:24:04 🧭 Further research aims to understand brain regions impacted by vasopressin, potentially through functional brain imaging and receptor studies. 02:26:10 🤝 Despite unknown mechanisms, if vasopressin can improve the lives of individuals with autism, ethical considerations favor its continued exploration and application in a scientifically sound manner. 02:28:03 💡 There's intriguing research suggesting the potential interplay between gut microbiome and vasopressin levels, seen in mouse models, influencing social behavior. Further studies explore this connection in humans. 02:32:09 🧠 Gut-brain connection: The vagal pathway links gut microbiota to oxytocin production in the brain, suggesting a significant role in autism treatments. 02:33:33 💰 Funding challenges: Limited funding delays critical research in autism treatment, affecting vital studies during critical developmental windows. 02:35:11 🔬 Clinical trials & openness: Studies involving autistic children often include an open-label extension, enabling placebo groups to access medication post-trial, ensuring ethical and safety evaluations. 02:36:33 🧬 Ongoing trials: Current research includes fecal transplants and oxytocin nasal sprays for autism, although funding limitations affect exploration and continuation of these studies. 02:37:30 💊 Vasopressin treatments: Contrasting approaches - positive trials with vasopressin administration for autism, while a pharmaceutical trial using an antagonist showed negative results, suggesting different impacts on social behavior. 02:43:45 💉 Vaccines & autism: Studies have debunked the link between vaccines and autism. Historically, fear and controversy have hindered researchers from addressing immunological aspects of autism, affecting critical investigations. 02:51:24 🤔 Challenging discussions: Discussions around vaccine necessity and safety exist, leading to concerns about the number of vaccines children receive, highlighting the need for transparent information and informed decisions.
@@dameanvilTHANK you for the added synopsis with regards to each time stamp. As we know, Huberman's team now presents transcripts well-nigh "instantly" and the time stamps ARE provided....but I sincerely appreciate the added descriptors YOU have provided here. I'm ~ as yet ~ in real time still early in this podcast...but as I am listening (on the PC) I "read ahead" in the comment section and was DELIGHTED to read your posts. Thank you, again. I, for one, genuinely appreciate your efforts on behalf of all. Well done. Reading your posts FURTHER PIQUED my curiosity/excitement to listen to the balance of this podcast. I listen (and re-listen) to virtually all podcasts...and I love the BENEFITS I have reaped from the many actionable protocols I daily practice. ❤
We took my daughter to Dr’s, specialists, psychologists never getting to the bottom of it until almost her 18th birthday. Autism. So much frustration trying to get to that diagnosis. She feels better finally having a diagnosis, that there is an actual reason for the way she is. It was so hard to know what to do for her. The school was no help, just round and round lip service and the bullying never stopped. Her Dad is an engineer and I am medical science. She also has PCOS, and has had gi issues from birth, speech therapy, group socialization therapy, anxiety, depression, ADD, gender dysphoria.But she is functioning. It’s frustrating to not have be able to find some early intervention/diagnosis for her. This is such a need as the numbers are climbing. Enjoyed the interview. Thank you.
Is she high masking? Unmasking (allowing oneself to act as they are and not suppress behavior for the sake of others) has done WONDERS for me. I was diagnosed at 37. Masking has caused irreversible trauma. Sending you + your daughter love ❤
Numbers are only climbing because there’s more and more knowledge around it. Just a couple years ago it was thought to be a boy only thing. Also it’s a hereditary thing and doesn’t just appear. My dad is also an engineer and his dad from trade and many more people before them I got it from them.
My teen also has most of these you listed. I would be curious to know more about the frequency of any of these combined with autism. Also, bless you, I know this hasn’t been easy for you all.
There are plenty of autistic people who have their own youtube channels who don't bother to try and 'cure' themselves of autism. Those channels are about acceptance of autism. There is not one of them I have seen that pathologizes autism. Many or most learnt to mask autism in order to appear 'normal', and now they are here to unpack that. The problem is that the dominant order is neurotypical or neurotypical acting, and this is the core of the disability, not the person themselves. I do believe that autistic people should get accommodations and have their needs met with therapies etc but they need to be neurodivergent accepting. It's still a matter of being neurologically different, a fundamental difference that should be respected rather than pathologized.
Eh, sure. The negative downsides seem to far outweigh the positive by orders of magnitude. Life expectancy, relationships, being extremely expensive for the economy. The amount of people who have it who wish they didn't is more than enough to warrant this podcast. It's not just one perspective on this, so please be tolerant that not everyone wants to create life that will have unnecessary difficults in the real world.
@@willek1335 You do understand that some of the upsides of autism include winning WW2 thanks to Alan Turing. Or the discovery of the photo-electric effect thanks to Albert Einstein.
I felt that with them using the chimps with lower social skills (or however they put it) as a gauge for the ones with a condition most similar to autism, it leaves a huge gap in understanding of the autistic experience. And the fact that autism manifests in different ways such as higher social needs in some. I’m “high functioning” autistic, as is my daughter. We are insanely social creatures. I will talk to strangers and go dance with random people. She will give anyone a hug that lets her. But my understanding of some social cues is lacking, as is hers. We don’t have an aversion to being social tho and I think that’s the missing piece. We have different symptoms that make us autistic. I have a huge vocabulary and special interests I hyperfixate on and buy things for obsessively. I stim tf out with singing and tapping and leg shaking and popping my joints and I have had to mask away my hand flapping to where I’ve pretty much stopped now. But I would not present as a non social chimp. 😅
Please lead with adult and elder autism next time. Many of us are not parents but still we are looking for answers about ourselves and our childhood before all the awareness.
You don't treat autism, you support it. I'm just diagnosed in my late 50's, and now that I have housing, a pension and some support, I'm able to engage with the broader community in ways me and my family never thought possible. It's a divergent neurology not a disease.
I much prefer the term neurodiverse. I definitely agree with you that it is not a disease and just because our brains are different doesn’t make us disabled or deformed
@@jlllx you dont support cancer when you do cancer treatment. While there is a chance the words used in various context mean different things, but regularly in lay terms, treating autism does mean curing or mitigating it.
I'm so sorry to hear some things about autism.. I am autistic and my husband and son are. We also both have adhd. We're all extremely different. I believe if we spoke to another doctor who believes it's not an illness and who would not try to cure us but understand us.... That'd be great. I always listen to these podcasts but this time I felt very sorry. There's lots of women who aren't diagnosed.. And behavior interventions are something that in the long time kills a person's personality and drives you crazy. That's not teaching how to have a proper behavior but it only teaches how to mask. I've become depressed because of this and almost lost myself. Please doctor @andrew huberman try and make another talk to hear another way to see autism. We all need it.
did you notice that they mentioned about vagus nerve exercises? they are very powerful, i wish i knew about them. the somatic exercises are even better, but we won't have any studies on both topics.
Anyone particular women who survive through brutally social driven environments like mainstream education without being diagnosed have much milder symptoms. With enough understanding and support, such “high functioning” women can be very productive and make significant social contributions especially in de-stigmatising current negative perceptions about autism. However it should be a personal choice for the autistic individuals especially those in less fortunate circumstances whether they would like medication or treatment. At this stage, despite a decade long of breakthroughs, there is no approved drugs for autism. Only drugs to manage the severity of their symptoms. Just like ADHD, there’s no cure but only medication which might not work as efficiently in the long run. And certainly not working for a significant portion of children , at least without causing too much side effects . Therefore the safest bet is to keep investing in research and promote inclusive education and employment opportunities. I wish you and your family the very best
Finally, I LOVE being on the spectrum. I consider it such a gift - a gift that has thousands of gifts within it - I am 74 and still unwrapping the splendid and varied multitude of gifts being on the spectrum has given me. Oh ye Spectrumites! Delight in the wonders of you! And don’t worry about meeting the societal norms of neurotypicals. Love yourself as you are. I do.
Andrew you never stutter and you have the ability to speak in an articulate but clear way, making your teaching entertaining but accessible to the masses. Can we have an episode to do with speech, communication and vocabulary (public speaking, protocols to improve an individual’s volubility and vocabulary etc).
I will be listening to this while i work starting in about a half hour. I just wanted to say that I was not sure you would ever touch this subject. As a father of 2 boys, both affected by this condition, I can't thank you enough. I can feel the pain and suppressed sadness in my fingertips dying to come out as i type this so i need to stop before it finds a way out.
What an incredible benefit it is to your children to have a parent who is passionate about helping your sons.❤ One's children might well be too young, or physically ill or otherwise unable to THEMSELVES to seek scientific information to help themselves...so it behooves us as loving parents to do so on their behalves. I was previously too ill to perform such research on my own behalf...and it was with extreme delight when I finally recovered to the degree that I could seek out scientific data to maximize my nutrition and exercise protocols. I immediately added research on behalf of my sons for they had suffered from our shared experiences and challenges we triumphed over...but they were each dangerously underweight. I've researched extensively on their behalves...and recommended to them the specific "foundational protocols" recommended by Dr. Huberman as a baseline to improve SLEEP...plus additional protocols which are chosen on their behaves. There have, consequently, been positive changes, more dramatic in the son who opts to adhere to said foundational (and additional) protocols. Please know that what you are doing is a phenominal gift to give your sons.
Listening to these two incrediblebrains interact for 2.5 hours was an absolute delight. As a daughter of an autistic father who struggled to thrive in the neurotypical world, with a husband who is equally but differently on the spectrum, two brilliant sensitive neurodivergent children of my own and as a Grade One and music teacher of 88 6 and 7 year olds, I find these topics fascinating. Thank you for pushing for this badly needed research!
Thank you, Andrew and Dr. Parker! I have been waiting for you to cover this topic. Your consistent work and dedicated efforts to educate your audience is inspiring and much appreciated. 🙏
Not all of us care about improving social interaction, but finding peace in the chaos that goes inside our heads with the overwhelming world. Do you know how it feels to have migraine and not tolerating the lights or loud noises? Imagine living like that everyday, I feel like it would be expected that some of us would rather prioritize finding calm and peace and looking like we're "on our own world" rather than performing socially.
It's magnesium deficiency Mag. deficiency has literally same symptoms (noise sensitivity, irritability, troubles sleeping, relaxing) and is common in autism. I have autism and completely healed these "oversensitive" symptoms with everyday magnesium supplentation. It did not reverse autism, mind you. Only this part of symptoms So I hate it when people portray these secondary symptoms as though they are primal when in fact they are caused by mag deficiency and are experienced by millions of people who are NOT on the spectrum but have this deficiency
That's what self advocacy is all about. Being able to appropriately communicate needs without falling into the trappings of being maladaptive and avoidant or worse, having aggressive or self-injurous behavior. Developing functional skills are a foundation for finding calm and peace.
Agree. "...finding peace in the chaos that goes inside our heads" would automatically improve sociability. I am neurotypical and when my brain and body are tired/overwhelmed/inflamed (flu, fever, severe exhaustion etc) there is no energy left for social interaction. The brain conserves what little energy it has in those situation for basic survival functions. See my comment (top comment) above. It is my firm belief that when/if sensory processing and brain energy levels are improved - by addressing whatever is causing the deficiencies - the core 'autism' symptoms such as 'lack of social interaction' will also improve or go away.
Highly focused on young kids and how vasopressin 'can perhaps' be helpful, but nothing insightful to takeaway and apply in general for people with Autism.
As an autistic + ADHD brain, I'm highly annoyed with 'experts' chatting about what they never actually EXPERIENCED themselves. The best experts I respect, and look up to, are actual autistic individuals who've honestly studied their own brain, abilities, and challenges, and take pride in educating and helping the community. Plus, using the word "risk" (please note the host says 'probability') of having autism, doesnt exactly indicate full acceptance of the beauty of difference in our world. Also, I do not feel like my neurodivergence should be 'treated'. However challenging autism may be, it is not a sickness. We're not sick. Different people have different abilities that you won't test in labs. And leave primates and mice the f..k alone 🤬
As a parent of a 23 year old autistic son I have been waiting for this, thank you both for the excellent discussion, and for the life's work. I love my exceptional son just as he is, but at age five he said to me "Mum, I'm broken, you need to recycle me for parts", and his suicidal ideation remains to this day. He has never had a peer -group friend, or a birthday party, I doubt he will ever hold down a job. While neurodiversity is of course a wonderful thing, it is my greatest hope to live long enough to see the cause(s) of autism understood and life-changing treatments become available. This is a case of "yes, and..." Yes we should celebrate neurodiversity in all its forms and we should keep searching for solutions for those suffering with Axis 1 disorders. P.S. Thank you Dr. H for nailing the "Whether or not" sentence structure. Whether or not I can take the credit I feel heard ;)
My son is autistic too and I know what you're going through. We just have to hope things will get better day by day and they'll be able to function and be happy. I firmly believe that and it keeps me going ❤
Agreed. Things are getting better day by day, hopefully for you too. My son is flying home unaccompanied from university on Friday! Something I never would have predicted would be possible. That said, I think it is vital to recognize that if someone cannot hold down a job, or have a relationship, then their condition should be seen as something that we need to address (while embracing). On the plus side, after years of therapy he is a young man who is far more mindful and self-aware than he might have otherwise been, and as a parent I got to that place of truly just wanting contentment for him (as opposed to "success") long ago. Keep going @@gregzaks6649 !
I would really encourage finding some other kids his age with autism (ASD) to be friends with. As a speech therapist, I find that people with ASD can get each other on a different level then other neurotypical people and build meaningful friendships. Also, he wouldn`t feel as alone or different.
@@CheyenneBrady-lb4ht lots to touch on here, but I'll try to be brief. When my son was diagnosed at 3 (so 20 years ago) there were far fewer children nearby on the spectrum. I think the incidence was approx. 1 in 250 for males back then. Your comment is a stark reminder of how much more prevalent ASD is now. We did attempt playdates with others on the spectrum. But this speaks to one of the challenges at the heart of this, certainly the main challenge I have had raising my son, (which I'll mention here in case it helps anyone), namely where to draw the line between respecting him for who he is and where to push him outside of his comfort zone and/or discipline him. This is a question all parents face of course, but it is magnified with someone on the spectrum. I think it would be cruel and inhumane to impose my ideas of "fun", say, on him, but I do want him to experience all life has to offer. I smile when I remember our conversation after his one (and only) playdate with another 6 year old on the spectrum. Me: "That went well, shall we have X over again soon?" My son: "Now Mum, let's not get carried away." So polite, so not interested. Or peel back to when he was 2 and I was trying to encourage him to play with blocks; after months of ignoring me as I sat and built things and tried to get his interest he walked over, summarily stacked a vertiginous tower ten or so blocks high, and asked that we never play with blocks again! I do agree wholeheartedly that social isolation is not for the best, it's just so nuanced.
LSD changed me forever, for the better, a rebirth always before I could not speak to a girl, went to a dead gig dropped acid, went to work and pulled the next day I suddenly knew what emotions were and how to play with them instead of thinking all the time LSD and the Dead have saved millions of us Its all very complex, but its all known but its autistic to autistic , normal will never understand by being normal they cant Please understand LSD affects us differently because we have something always inflamed, LSD reduces that inflammation and helps us attach biologically but if you do not suffer that always inflamed Amygdala then you will never FEEL it reduce in size, understand Do not think, both if you , all of you eat LSD clean and watch and learn the magic of biology
We don’t see as many auties trying to drug normies to make them more autistic. If you really want to know about autism and autistic men women girls and boys, you need to ask them and then listen to them. Or you could ask your dentist. Expect more for someone in the neuro field.
This episode should have been called, "Autism: swimming in the 3 ft deep ocean of correlation, no causal ground to stand on." The joke being that at any point in time they could have "stood up" and actually talked about the suspected and proven causes of autism. This episode is evidence that both Andrew Huberman and Dr. Parker lack the courage to have a real discourse on the cause(s) of autism. What does this mean for our society when two incredibly intelligent and highly respected people are unwilling to discuss the matter in a public way.
I was diagnosed with autism earlier this year at 33 years of age. That why I was thrilled to listen to this episode. The vasopressin research is extremly interesting. Though, for me, the episode was quite disappointing. You talk causes but limit your discussion to the two neuropeptides, what about the neurological differences on the brain level? Most autistic persons have co-morbidities like addiction, trauma, depression. No mention on that. But what really annoys me was the expression of your guest to „treat autism“. You can try to treat accompanying mental health issues, lower anxiety but autism is part of autistic persons. This expression makes clear why autistic people are traumatised in the neurotypical world. The way we perceive the world is considered wrong and to be treated. It’s so incredibly sad to hear that from a credited researcher. We are not wrong, we are different. I need therapy for PTSD because I learned I’m wrong and I have to think, behave and be like neurotypical people.
One thing that I have realized after watching many of the Huberman Lab Podcasts: if every professor had to be so good at his job that he was able to upload hours and hours of his lectures to the internet without getting absolutely destroyed by the general public pointing out all sorts of errors, the landscape in europe would be so different. It would be deeply beneficial to all students and it would filter out all that are unjustly in teaching positions. I do realize that this is seperate from Hubermans teachings in lectures and that they are not publically visible even though that would most likely provide great value to the public as well, but the value created here far overshadows most value created by the authority that I have encountered on my own academic journey. All of us gathering here just to listen to this person profess is itself a testament to the qualities he brings to so many lives around the globe.
Huberman doesn't share what he teaches in his lectures, though, and not everything he says is correct. A good chunk of experts, including M.D.s say that he goes too far when using small studies to make broad claims and to create "protocols". He also has a lot of guests on, and much of what they say is too complicated or at least not understood well enough by the majority of his viewer base, to be challenged when wrong, and he doesn't challenge them, himself. For instance, he has often bashed pornography use as something terrible, but didn't push back agains tthe urologist woman he had on, who said it's not commonly a problem, aside from the small percentage of people who are actually addicted. He also, said a bunch of stuff about Cannabis, that doesn't seem to have much scientific backing, at all (the whole sativa vs indica, and type 1, 2, and 3 stuff, is barely substantiated by any worthwhile scientific literature, if at all, much less to the exact degree that he claimed, with sativa and indica's specific effects on individual brain regions...the two categories may not even exist according to many people).
Thank you for this great episode on autism. I've learned a lot of stuff about how my neurobiology could differ from the neurotypical. There is a large focus. However, the focus is primarily on autism as a disorder in children. These children often grow up, and though they stop being children, they don't stop being autistic. Would you consider doing an episode on autism in adults? How we believe autistic people experience their lives differently from their neurotypical counterparts, how autism can present in its myriad ways, what functions are impacted, and how can those functions be influenced by people, autistic and allistic both, to improve quality of life?
Agree. I also feel that the concept of early integration to change and modify behaviour and what will end up as not only behaviour but personality changes to the individual child are disrespectful to the child's natural functional capacity - there's nothing inherently wrong with an autistic child and therefore what will soon become an autistic adult - it is those of the neurotypical that consider changes and modification necessary to integrate into societal norms and standards of their way of life - and we are learning more each day this is of no benefit when 20% of the worlds population are neurodivergent. We have our own strengths and i dont consider stamping out our inherent experience a positive aspect of behavioural change. we should be integrating education and understanding/ empathy or autistic people - not segregation until proven compliant of structural expectation.
Thanks so much for this wonderful episode. I’m wondering if you could continue this conversation and talk about the Double Empathy Problem, Monotropism theory of autism, why does autism and ADHD often co-occur, why females are often late diagnosed and the signs and symptoms in childhood were missed or labeled as something else (OCD, borderline personality, bipolar). Love your work and this conversation!
As far as I¨m aware, in general females are more adept at social skills. This is due to their in general having scoring slightly higher on agreeableness and conscientiousness. Add in that young males are higher in aggressiveness, and are more likely to act out physically. This makes it harder to discover in young girls, and easier to discover in young boys. And of course, due to it being more males who are diagnosed, there's been more research done on them. Luckily this has changed in recent years.
I would love this too. Late diagnosed ADHD female, 45 and diagnosed this year. Double empathy and Monotropism are two areas that are really interesting.
Aside from the incredible content, I have to remark that Dr Huberman has got to be one of the clearest communicators I have observed in a while. It’s very refreshing and makes for a much better listening experience. Needless to say, I really appreciate this content and just subscribed…..thanks Dr H; great stuff.
is autism in itself a disorder or the comorbidities are the things that cause struggles - disabilities as we do not have an is for autism vs it could be caused by. If majority of researchers were neurodiverse, how would it be looked at?
I work at a school for the blind as a physical therapist, and after listening to this, I'm buzzing wanting to dig into the relationship between optic nerve hypoplasia/septo optic dysplasia and autism. It is well known in the world of vision impairment that ONH and/or SOD and autism go hand in hand, and nearly all of my patients with ONH/SOD have diagnoses of autism. Knowing that these vision-related diagnoses are tied to midline structures of the brain, it is also common to see the hypothalamus and pituitary gland affected or underdeveloped in these children with ONH/SOD. This leads me to vasopressin. This has to be a direct link, and I'll be following this research surrounding vasopressin closely. Thanks for sharing!!!
Autistic person here. Like mikesanchez already wrote we were expecting more of a approach on how to live more successfully as an autistic person. Like strategies for dealing with the daily overwhelm etc... I do hope you're planning on something like that too. That being said this was really fascinating. First hour and 50 minutes maybe not. I kept wondering what was the point of all this. But then. Fascinating. 1) I would love to learn more about the research done on those 2k frozen samples. That for me was so valuable. For shutting up the vaccine&autism group. 2. When on that topic it really did not occur to me that demage that publication did to all nd-s was not just antivax misinformation and paranoia. It actually caused scientists to be reluctant in their research of autism. It's criminal really. 3. I must admit i did not really feel comfortable with dr Parker. She did gave mad scientist wibe to me 😅 4. But her research is very important in my opinion. Not because of finding the cure. We autistic do not really think we need the cure. And autism being part of our identity what would be the point of curing us from our self. But we would appreciate a medication that would help with daily struggles. Ritalin for autistic. Something that would help me not having anxiety and insomnia after every outing and uncontrolled socialising. Would love that. 5. Why is everyone so focused on children only? I do understand that because of neuroplasticity the individual benefits would be more prominent in that age group. But wouldn't it be easier to research on willing adult participants that are more aware of their symptoms. Not to mention all the moral dilemmas of testing things on children. Also do you know that adults with adhd are having problems with getting medication because all the research is done on kids and once you turn 18 magic pixy comes and takes away your adhd so you do not need meds 😏 6. Never the less I'm very excited reading the results of next study. 7. Episode on vagus nerve and why is it so fascinating? 8. I also need to know more about suitability of animal models for reasarch of different areas. You did mention it before in episode on fasting. Very interesting. Now I really wrote too much and English is not my first language so i probably did many mistakes in my excitement. We (autistic out there) do hope you 'll do the episode on tools to live with autism too. Thanks
This is not a good conversation about autism. This is actually quite offensive. This uses language that people in the autistic community would not use for themselves like "high-functioning". Rainman didn't even have autism. There are a ton of researchers and psychiatrists that are also autistic, who specifically got into the field so people wouldn't talk about them like this. It would have been a much more helpful and inclusive video if instead of two neurotypicals medical professionals that admit that they don't really know anything about autism, you had chosen to speak to a professional that is autistic. This conversation doesn't even mention Monotropism which is a theory of autism developed by autistic people (Dinah Murray and Wenn Lawson) which is gaining a lot of traction amongst the autistic community. I appreciate this channel and there are some interesting bits of information in this conversation but wow, Huberman, do better.
I don’t think I was ever low on oxytocin or vasopressin. I’m level 1 Autistic and never had an issue socializing. My first manager at a department store called me her social butterfly because I was always off chatting with employees in different departments. My social issues were more about saying the wrong thing and upsetting people. I’m too blunt and honest.
You might not be aware, but being blunt is an issue in socializing. You don't understand how something can be upsetting to others, thus coming across as rude and blunt.
I've been told that I have no filter. Whatever bubbles to the top of my mind comes spilling out. My parents told me to always be honest so I took it very literally. I felt I was lying if I didn't tell someone exactly what I thought of them. I'm sure you can imagine how that went over....like a lead balloon. 😂 But to be fair I expected the same from others and never took offense. It's pretty hard to hurt my feelings. I'm either tough or just stupid. 😊
What about raising autism awareness and getting rid of ableism, plus respecting sensory needs to help autistic people being able to interact socially without so much stress. This might help us generate more oxytocin...
Wow Andrew, you have firmly become my daily companion and unbelievable mentor! Since following your podcast I have been able to understand my adult adhd/asd diagnosis much better and navigate that, not only with your videos specifically on those subjects, but the accompanying catalogue of amazingly informative and helpful podcasts you have posted. I cannot thank you enough for what you do!!!!! I don't ever comment but felt really compelled to do so and tell you how life changing your podcasts have been for me and my life of new 'protocols'. If you would ever consider doing a podcast on sensory issues around adhd/asd that would be really cool! This is the aspect that actually led me to discover what was happening to me, around light sensitivity, smell, touch and sound. I would love to understand this more one day! Thank you so much Andrew!
Thanks dr. Huberman for devoting an episode for this particular condition. On a similar vein, I believe many would benefit from an episode on learning disabilities.
don't worry, we have to analyze first, data processing on such a deep level takes time ^^ watching tv with subtitles worked wonders for me. we loooove to learn, our sensory issues are just overwhelming ^^ I'm 31 y/o and I struggle daily, but still a genius tho lol.
Starting the episode now but can’t wait! My 3 year old nephew is autistic and has been going to therapy for years. I absolutely adore him and all he teaches me with patience and stimulation. ❤
@@oso_estudioso yes. He started at 2 and my sister in law noticed his differences even younger and tried seeking professional help when he was only a year… but closer to two. He had ABA, occupational therapy and speech therapy.
he spoke to the therapist about his life story "i was born and then i pooped and drank milk, now my crazy aunty has sent me here to talk to you doc"@@oso_estudioso
We definitely need a second chapter on Autism for those who have a loved one dealing with this situation. It would be wonderful to have more resources or tools in order to both take care of them and cater their needs in terms of empowering them to take on more life challenges. Thank you Dr. Andrew Huberman for providing all this information to the general public in order to create an informed society.
My grandson was born fine. He was talking as baby's do. Mama, Dada. He was then vaccinated. His baby shots. He came home with a slight fever. A couple days later he's feeling good but now he stop talking, He stopped sleeping. He was doing odd hand motions constantly. Now he is four and diagnosed with autism.
I can relate it happened to us😢 I say us because it is tragic for child, parents and siblings. It is hard on whole family. God help us! They will never believe or validate us.😢😢😢
I wanted to thank you and Dr Parker for this episode and to let you know how it has directly helped my son who is 18 and autistic. I had been expressing concern for years to doctors about how frequently he has to urinate which is really disruptive at night. When I heard the discussion around vasopressin deficiency I thought my son should be tested. We have just heard that initial blood and urine tests + input/output measurements over 24 hours point to a suspected deficiency. He’s been referred now to a hospital to go through a final monitored water deprivation test. His symptoms concerned us for years but were put down to OCD type behaviors. Finally we are getting to the root of it thanks to your podcast - and who knows where this may take us if he eventually receives treatment. I will let you know.
*Dr Andrew Huberman.* What a wonderful, sophisticated, complex, important, beautiful, refined, intellectual topic! I have been thinking about starting a podcast for a several years, altough I am not sure if I had the courage for it. You really deserve to be one of the very best, most important and most detailed podcast not only in the science category, but also in audio in general. It's beyond a pleasure to write here again!
I have a child, he’s 3, is on the spectrum but in the UK it’s extremely hard to get an actual diagnosis, so I take matters in to my own hands and do the research myself, I was just researching vasopressin and stumbled onto the fact that I can get this prescribed for my child on the NHS ‘if’ he has a problem wetting the bed, he’s doesn’t, he’s not potty trained yet (another problem for austic kids) but I can also get it if he’s constipated. My son usually is constipated, this can weaken the pelvic floor and thus lead to bedding wetting. All very common things for austic kids and all linked to low levels of vasopressin. This podcast is literally the best thing I could have seen to help child, thank you.
Every time I heard Dr Huberman say "with autism" I think of somebody at a restaurant. "Excuse me waiter, I ordered my child without autism, but this child is absolutely smothered in it." I am autistic. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be me. You cannot separate me and the tism , because I AM the tism. Just saying. 😅
Great question posed by the professor regarding whether it's 'spectra' or 'spectrums.' Both terms are actually correct, but they're used in slightly different contexts. 'Spectra' is often preferred in more formal or scientific discussions, reflecting its Latin origin as the plural of 'spectrum.' On the other hand, 'spectrums' is also accepted, particularly in less formal contexts or in everyday English. It really comes down to the preference of the speaker or the specific requirements of the publication format. It's fascinating to see such nuances in language, especially in the context of discussing the diverse range of experiences within autism spectrum disorders... ❤
As a neurotypical human who works with autistic kids, I was hoping to gain something more of value from this episode. Unfortunately I was left disappointed, like I am with so many clinicians I work with. Parents, educators, other caregivers need guidance on ways to support for these individuals. We don’t get them. Similar to the guest, our questions are rarely ever directly answered…
Thank you for continuing to expose the need for research in Autism. I am a 2nd grade teacher and have taken many continuing ed. classes (at my own expense) to support students in my classes who may or may not be "identified" as Autistic. I feel like teachers are at the "front lines" with school aged children and their specific needs and Autistic students can demand tremendous support! Although our school does its best to support the needs of Autistic students, there are so many factors to consider...and many questions and concerns that need addressed. Teachers have the privilege of seeing students in an environment with their age related peers and that lens can give so much insight on assets and deficits of children with Autism. From my experiences in the classroom and working with parents and support staff, these children can and do benefit from intense and early interventions. But, misconceptions, stigma, and lack of knowledge, and lack of resources are HUGE barriers. You mentioned during the podcast that you were interested in supporting research for Autism.... please, please continue to shine your light of influence in this area. The faster we can help these children become their best selves, the better. Thank you!
Ive been giving my autistic 4 year old child lions mane for about 4 months now, putting about .5-1g powder in his pancake batter each morning, im not sure if the increase in communication is simply from him growing, or the therapies, but i have been seeing a good amount of improvement in his behavior.
this hits so close to home I can only listen a few minutes at a time before my autonomic arousal becomes too intense for me. plus I need someone to share what I learned so I can process it. Other Highfunctioners know what I mean, amiright?
There is a large community of parents out there who are utilizing treatments/dietary changes (many that would not surprise you, given your scope of subjects here) to help their children and have been doing so for many years. Why don’t you include them in your conversations? Lisa Ackerman of TACA would be a good one to start with and her organization is wonderful. Best of luck to you. This a subject that, sadly, affects so many.
Dr. Huberman, I have been following along and tuning in to every bit of content you’ve put out over the past 14 months. I was at a program called Warriors Heart in Bandera, TX for veterans with pts, tbi, and addiction when I began closely following your material while I walked backwards 4 miles every morning to rehab my knee. Your content immediately spoke to something buried deep inside me. Thanks to you, I have recently begun my journey. I have applied to schools, and intend to earn a bs in biology. I don’t know where this road leads, but if I never try… I’ll never know. Thank you.
We are delighted to see this subject discussed and proud to be sponsoring some of Dr. Karen Parker's research in this area. More understanding on causes and treatments for both core and comorbid symptoms in autism is sorely needed. Thank you both!
For those interested in translational research in autism, our - The BRAIN Foundation - youtube channel features presentations by Dr. Karen Parker (and many others!) on their work over the past several years.
28:11 my son has Dravet syndrome due to scn1a mutation and had to receive a secondary diagnosis of autism to receive services for his needs at school. This is a very interesting topic. Thank you for bringing this question up. I didn't realize there were other syndromes that display autistic traits. His neuro maintains that the syndrome is what he has and the traits are similar to those with autism.
This episode was very informative. I enjoyed learning more about oxytocin. I agree that it could have more information about autism in adults and female teens/adults, but I understand there are too many things to cover in one round. Perhaps we can have more episodes on this subject. Thank you 😊 Ps: spectrum is a neutral noun in latin, so the plural is with "a" = spectra.
Whatever you think about Andrew, he's 💯% correct about the Aeropress I was a barista for over a decade, not some guy who pushes a button at Starbucks, a real barista at specialty shops doing latté art and all that I never use any other method to brew coffee, the Aeropress is too good not to use, the cleanup is so easy and satisfying, shooting that puck into the trash is euphoric The quick steep, then the pressure of the piston makes the cup kinda taste like a really good pour over with the rich, oiliness of an espresso It's perfect really
I am a neurotypical with a very close family member who has Asperger's. Stop labeling those people as deficient human beings. Imagine we meet an alien from a different galaxy who is kind, intelligent, and eager to learn and connect with other human beings. Would you call that person deficient? No. If you are curious and smart enough, you will open your arms to him to try to understand the way he communicates with you and learn from him.
She failed to provide an appropriate answer to all questions asked in the first 30 minutes. She answered those questions very generally without providing details. I was interested in discussions regarding cause of autism, but this conversation was not helpful to me.
There are studies that show certain environmental factors, such as mother's lack of vitamin D or too much of certain vitamins during pregnancy, that can contribute to increasing the chances of autism, but she failed to mention any.
It's disappointing that you continue to pedal outdated and harmful stereotypes and language in this podcast. Autism is a neurotype, it's not a pathology, just like neurotypicality is a neurotype. Most people's conceptions of autism include those with co-occurring disabilities such as learning disabilities or epilepsy. Talk of "risk" and "symptoms" pathologise what is merely a divergence from a neurotypical norm. You would benefit from reading Dr Robert Chapman's thesis on this.
I found this episode grossly offensive. Why the hell are they not talking to actual autistic researchers. This had so many outdated and proven abusive theories littered through it. The damage he just did. I feel sick to my stomach.
Clearly you've never worked with low-functioning autism before. It is very definitely a disability. Some people get off light, that is what is called high-functioning autism. It is incredibly damaging to those with the more acute symptoms to tell them "it's all in their head" instead of getting them the help they need for their deficiencies.
@@amyb.6368 I never claimed that autistic people with higher support needs do not exist or that they don't deserve help. I also never said it wasn't a disability. But by that I mean more in line with the social model of disability thinking - society isn't set up for autistic ways of thinking of communicating hence we are disabled by it.
@@amyb.6368 Functioning labels are incredibly damaging to autistic people across the spectrum. Also, you (like many people) have misunderstood what it means to say autism is a natural, non-pathological neurotype. That does not mean it isn't a disability (it certainly can be - please look up the social model of disability). It does not mean there aren't challenges. It definitely does not mean that autistic people don't need support in various ways, and CERTAINLY does not mean that it's "all in their head". It's not a matter of some people "getting off light" - in fact, high-masking (what you refer to as high-functioning) autistic people are at much higher risk of suicidality, major depression, and anxiety (largely due to how debilitating it is living in a world that erases our experiences and needs and expects us to just "push through"). We still have support needs, sometimes quite large ones even when we appear "high-functioning" to the outside world, and no one is advocating for eliminating those - if anything, virtually all neurodivergent activists would like support to be more accessible to more people. To say it isn't a disease just means we think that efforts (and funds) should be going toward meeting autistic people's *actual needs* (whatever they may be), not trying to convert them into neurotypical people (which is impossible, regardless of what Dr. Parker claims) or prevent them from being born (i.e., eugenics).
Vagus nerve stimulation is a core principle of behavior therapy. I have used it for 13 years on my kids and myself, without knowing that it was vagus nerve stimulation. We start trying everything possible in order to alleviate discomfort for our autistic kids, sometimes we stumble across something that works, but never understand why. TALK TO AUTISTIC PEOPLE
I just read Stephen Porges' "A Polyvagal World' last week and was surprised there didn't seem to be any mention of the vagal nerve in regards to Autism in the podcast - though I didn't listen to the end.
It is very stressful to deal with everything related to autism. You tried to help your kids with this but can be difficult with others health issues, lack of functioning, medication side effects. Sometimes you feel so sad about all of that that it is very hard not cry.
Please note that many autistic individuals have a pharmacogenetic profile that can result in ultra-rapid or ultra-slow metabolism of certan substances. As an ultra rapid metabolzier, it's not necessarily safe for us to take the same doses as someone else. Please do a pharmacogenetic lab for yourself before experimenting with drugs, or using psychiatric meds (I can't metabolize opiates, SSRIs, MDMA, or cannabis. it just goes right through me and produces extra liver toxins leading to possible death if i didn't know better)
I have Autism. While the episode was educational I was a bit let down by the guest of this episode. I felt she focused too much on the clinical side of it and not on some of the ways Autism could manifest itself(Masking, meltdowns, stimming, ect.) or ways for Autistic people to help themselves. I would be interested in an episode focused on Autism with Dr. Paul Conti as a guest or someone that actually works with Autistic patients
Agreed.
33 minutes into it i was disappointed.
I'm reading Unmasking Autism by Devon Price and hopefully I'll get some answers.........
But whats the point of a three hour video when Nobody is educated enough to give a proper diagnosis?
Why spend thousands of dollars and countless hours with doctors that prescribe useless medications that only do further harm?
Personally I don't need a diagnosis......but what I do need is a home base to figure out why I have been acting like the way I've been for the past 55 years so I can make a little bit of sense to this freaking puzzle.
Take care
What’s your favorite resource to understand masking and meltdowns?
I’m guessing that this won’t be the only podcast he does on autism so fingers crossed.
Agreed.
YES. And aso step by step guides resources to adults who were never recognized, supposedly masked well and lives are ruined right now but they want to figure it out and create a way to exist in this world. Navigating- info, money resource and second guessing self is so easy. If we can help
I am autistic and wasn't diagnosed till 18 because I always did well in school, it was only when a lot of mental health problems showed up and typical treatment didn't work that autism was discussed. I have also worked as a support worker for young people with autism and I have to say most of the problems others and myself have faced has been from the outside world trying to force us to fit a mould we are not meant to. My social anxiety has improved drastically since understanding autism because it made me feel so much better about myself, I am not broken and don't need to do things the way everyone else does- finding new ways yo do things instead of beating myself up has been immensely helpful. Self esteem plays a big part- if you grow up with everyone telling you you're broken or wrong, you're not going to get on well but since changing my perspective to view neurodiversity as causing individual strengths and weaknesses just like anyone else has been helpful for me, meaning I can properly address any issues I'm facing without feeling like a defective human. Love to all neurodiverse folks (and the rest of you too lol) 😊
love you, you are amazing x
Just remember, it is made up by humans. You are awesome!
@@fotter9567 I agree 100%
@fotter9567 perhaps it would have been nice to include an actual autistic person in this discussion. It's like to straight people talking about what it's like yo be gay lol
100%!
The world needs neurodivergent people - it’s this diversity that allows us as humans to progress and discover. Yes absolutely neurodevelopmental disorders are a disability in a neurotypical world, and can cause some real challenges, but we do have a lot of strengths. We need the diversity of human brains and ways of thinking and it’s not up to neurotypicals to decide what is best for us. You have the double empathy problem here. We need understanding more than fixing.
I have ADHD, it’s massively debilitating with some things (admin tasks, group situations), but a strength with other things (amazing in a crisis, able to process lots of information in a very short space of time, great at socialising 1:1). There are aspects that are difficult and I would love to change, but equally I wonder if I would feel the same if others were more educated and understanding of neurodiversity)..
If treatment can help with lessening things like anxiety and depression for example then I’m all for it. But to fit the neurotypical mould, I would question why you have a need to fix us.
FYI Elon Musk is autistic and Bill Gates has ADHD.
Autistic adult here! Podcast was interesting. Although it felt a little one dimensional in perspective. Something I think is missing from many clinical studies of autism is the autistic experience from the perspective of the person with the autism. Autism is so much more than social ineptness. She did mentioned this briefly. Sensory issues, how we process and perceive the world around us, special interests, masking, meltdowns, anxiety, stimming, self-regulation, etc. Even just how we approach social situations isn’t from disinterest, but from a different perspective and communication style altogether. Many of the clinical studies focus on the social aspect of it because that’s what benefits non-autistic parents and peers who are looking from the outside and feel like they can’t connect with us. But it doesn’t advocate for people who actually have the condition and have a lot of things they need to cope with day-to-day. Karen’s research has been done largely with animal trials and when done with humans it was very very small trials (less than 50 kids involved last I kept up with it). And in these studies the person reporting on the affects of the trial were the parents observing and not the kids. As she said in the podcast, she is interested in helping ‘parent stakeholders’ but it would be good to hear from the stakeholders who have the condition. Interested to see how the research holds up or develops with larger trials, more time, and more insight from the patients themselves.
Also the diagnostic material is largely white-male biased. A lot of females with autism don’t present as socially impaired as others. And under diagnosis is higher in females and especially in people of color. Autism research has a dark history going back to the holocaust when they thought only males could have it and only did research on white males… which is necessary to acknowledge when speaking of increased diagnosis in modern day.
Curious to hear some of these clinical trials from the perspective of and autistic person. For me, when I worked to increase social cognition it made me more prone to anxiety, masking, stress and consequently meltdowns. But people saw it as a success because I was ‘less socially awkward’. However I experienced more burnout and stress and less stamina than when I didn’t mask. I now have plenty of friends who don’t expect me to mask my autistic traits but who spent the necessary time to bridge the communicative gaps and these relationships are thriving. I think it would be beneficial to have more research focuses on closing that gap in communication between different neurotypes, since as mentioned in the progress, it doesn’t go away with age.
I’ve noticed a difference when I listen to specialist who are themselves autistic or work closely with autistic patients/family. and they tend to be more concerned about the well-being of the autistic community rather than merely addressing symptomology.
I’ve now had the opportunity to work with neurodivergent individuals and their parents and have helped bridge that gap in a away that helped both sides of the relationship. This is missing from a lot of clinical research
This. I was surprised and dismayed that I needed to scroll so far down to find a comment like yours. Thank you for contributing this valuable perspective to the discussion.
Your comment is very well written with , I think, a lot of valid points. Your mention on how socialising is viewed as a success, but the masking through it makes you feel worse, was very valid. My son, who has ASD feels like this. It makes me feel sad as a parent that in order for him to fit in with the wider world, he has to perform like this. There is not enough information given out to carers and people in general to help support each other. We all could do with it ❤
Excellent feedback. It seems as though processing predictable information (not to be confused with familiar information), calls for a different brain state than processing unpredictable information. From the perspective of someone autistic, neurotypical people seem disadvantaged at processing unfamiliar predictable data such as working on an unsolved math problem.
Thank you for this, this was very insightful.
Hello. Do you know if there are any support groups for adults with autism?
Dr Hubernan, I hope you might extend your scope of interest to also talking about autistic adults who have long since missed the critical window of intervention and who are living with autism and the devastating consequences of social impairment. Meaningful therapies and in fact even having access to a psychiatrist or psychologist is a worldwide issue and I believe this topic would be embraced by a segment of society who are largely otherwise ignored. The stats on life expectancy and suicide for people with autism back up the need for these conversations.
Agreed
My takeaway from this episode is that trying the probiotic L. reuteri would be a good idea. I'll be trying the one from Swanson.
Thank you. I will look into it ❤@@BabyTreasures
I have such an unpopular opinion: I'm on the spectrum and I've decided to just IGNORE any notion that I'm disabled. Nope, don't have any interest in socializing just to socialize; there needs to be a purpose. Also, sensory issues don't mean I have emotional or behavioral issues so I just keep the stimuli "low". I believe that a lot of adults on the spectrum create a lot of harm trying to fit into neurotypical social expectations. I don't find it necessary. I can't hold a job for more than two years not because the job is difficult but because I can't really see eye to eye with people that aren't focused on the job. So I started a company with my autistic wife. My point is that if we just look for our own strengths, we'll find them. I'm not a broken NT, I'm a normal autistic. My life looks very different than an average NT's but my sensitivities give me early detection and my ability to focus gives me tools. I wouldn't change a thing about myself. Oh, and I'm also not tribal and don't want to be. Y'all NT's can keep that one.
@@theoforand432 everything you say makes perfect sense to me and it sounds like you have constructed a life with firm boundaries that enable you to operate under the conditions that work for you.
Do you have an extended family who understand and accept your need to do so? What age did you get diagnosed?
You may or may not be female but under the assumption you are male, I believe there are different social norms - and even different presentations across the sexes that can also be relevant.
I appreciate your thoughts and experience.
I always hear the same thing about autism and ADHD: mostly boys have it. But what professionals fail to see is that girls are great at masking and mirroring. But people don't understand that and we continue to fly under the radar without a diagnosis for years...
yes
I grew up in the 80s and I never masked. I was just ostracized by my classmates for being "weird" and ignored by the teachers... I mean I was perfectly behaved × quiet so teachers had no problems. Only problem they DID have is the fact I was being bullied but they tended to ignore that too. One time I recall the punishment for the bullies was they werent allowed to go on a field trip the last day of school! But it was the last day so they didnt care. But even if the odd behavior was right "in your face" it was ignored.. Wasnt diagnosed until I was 48!
Exactly! I was about to write that. My Psychologist kept saying I showed barely any signs. I think it has a lot to do with the society and the cultural implications of how women are raised. Men with autism are generally accepted with the traits whereas there is less tolerance for women/ girls with autistic traits so they learn to mask more efficiently and way early.
Since we can socialize and the diagnostic criteria says we must have social deficits we are missed. I have a feeling that this scientist would not consider most women with autism as being autistic because we do not fit her model surrounding human connection. I connect with people. I often talk too long about boring things, or misunderstand someone's intentions, but I connect with people, have huge amounts of empathy. I think that the diagnosis of autism needs to focus on how we process sensory information. I think that is the key to understanding autism.
“Services for autistic people” is more apt than “treatment for autism”
Also, I imagine the people that “outgrow” their autism are either masking very effectively or were misdiagnosed/actually had trauma.
Well put.
@@janguvpes7518 trauma can be trigger
The treatment is more for society's convenience than our own. We're not crazy were jsut wired different so they expect us to be good house nerd-ers and use our superpowers to serve the normie society.
THIS. That part really irked me. You don't outgrow neurodivergence.
I was going to mention the same things. I can tell just by some of their terminology and overall approach to the subject that Dr. Huberman and Dr. Parker are not on the same page as many of those in the autistic and neurodivergent communities. Using terms like "treatment" and "outgrow" suggest they are out of touch with the nuances of what it is like to be autistic. This very much seems like a conversation between a set of intelligent people who have a sincere interest in this subject but are looking at it from an outsider's perspective, in a way that they could have avoided if they had spent more time listening to what autistic self advocates say about their own experiences of autism. Given how popular this podcast has become, and how much influence and clout Dr. Huberman seems to have for those who are fans or who aren't very familiar but just casually consume bits of his content, I'm disappointed in how this is unlikely to help people gain understanding and appreciation of the difficulties societies have with relating to autistic people (yes, I see a strong tendency for non-autistic, or at least not-definitely-autistic parts of society to be the source of a large amount of the social difficulty autistic people tend to have, due to a lack of trying to understand autism as experienced by autistic people, not the other way around, and instead simplistically looking at it as a set of behaviors and biological traits).
I have a few issues with what she said regarding whether adults can be diagnosed with autism, whether someone can “grow out of” an autism diagnosis, and the incidence of autism in males vs. the female population. Let me explain.
I listened for about an hour and, sorry, but, I admit I couldn’t even go on after she had the opportunity to acknowledge that adults that were missed in childhood can be diagnosed, too, and she declined (stating that the diagnosis occurs in childhood). This is an unfortunate and prevalent misunderstanding. The DSM-5 has no requirement that diagnosis take place during childhood and there are many adults currently alive that were children when Autism Spectrum Disorder Level 1 didn’t exist and the closest previous diagnosis (Asperger’s) was not something that was widely enough recognized that all children would have been identified and diagnosed (not to mention our growing understanding of stereotyping and the difference in presentation between males and females leading to under-recognition in females).
Additionally, I think it’s frankly outrageous that she said that someone can outgrow their diagnosis (presumably, through early intervention, learning to heavily mask). The DSM-5 specifically states that autistic symptoms “may be masked by learned strategies in later life,” and this should not preclude diagnosis. Heavily masking by using learned strategies in early intervention may help autistic children and adults “not seem autistic,” but this does not mean they have grown a neurotypical brain and grow out of their diagnosis. Neuroplasticity may be amazing, but it can only do so much. While we do not know exactly what causes various neurodivergent expressions in humans, there’s no biological evidence to back up her claim of “growing out of an autism diagnosis.” Conversely, in the absence of biological evidence, we have a tremendous amount of experiential information coming from clinicians and autistic adults themselves that points to neurodivergent conditions like autism being consistent and lifelong experiences.
For someone who has an autistic brain, learning masking techniques that require them to exist in the world in a way that isn’t natural or comfortable for their nervous system can only help so much (in terms of their inner experience and the stress their nervous system is going through). Sure, they can become “high functioning” and “seem normal” but internally they may simply have learned to suppress or dissociate from feelings of nervous system discomfort/distress and their natural inclinations.
For a child with autism who has gone through early behavioral intervention, it could take decades and decades for them to be able to identify and articulate that what they’ve known as “their normal” way of feeling and behaving in the world is actually still taking a tremendous toll on them. On the inside, their experience may not be much different than it would have been without early intervention. The exceptions would be emotional benefits from reduced bullying and techniques to help them learn to deal with emotional dysregulation.
I would hypothesize that many of these “early-intervention kids” could go through their younger years with their autism being masked under the radar, only to experience burnout and difficulty in adulthood when, as the DSM-5 states, “social demands exceed limited capacities.” Many high-functioning autistic adults who were not identified as children, yet learned their own “early intervention” skills due to bullying and their own problem-solving skills, have had this exact experience (ex. in response to workplace demands and/or the demands of having children).
It sounds like she would learn a lot from gaining more experience talking with high-masking adults to understand their lived experience and how someone can meet all DSM-5 criteria for diagnosis (due to pervasive affects in life) even if you can’t easily see it by talking to them or even being friends with them if they haven’t discussed these things with you. I think she would also benefit from talking with some psychologists that specialize in adult autism diagnosis and treatment. It could certainly help with gaining ideas for future research as the insights these two demographics have to offer are worth their weight in gold.
PS - It was also disappointing that she did not at least mention that the data behind autism being more prevalent in males is widely becoming thought of as highly suspect and outdated, due to the historical nature of testing and stereotyping being skewed toward the (most) typical male presentation of autism. She could have at least mentioned that we don’t have good data yet, but the idea of autism being more prevalent in males is something currently being seriously questioned by professionals who work with autistic individuals.
While it’s interesting to hear the research being done from the empirical biomedical side of things, I am disappointed in her overall seeming lack of knowledge of the adult autistic experience (and latest realizations) coming from the perspective of clinical psychologists specializing in adult autism. I hope Andrew will have someone on the podcast that can provide more information about this topic (maybe even a psychologist or psychiatrist with ASD, since they are out there).
So much this! I was screaming at my computer in disbelief that someone who works on autism can say things like this in the 21st century
I agree and am shocked by such outdated information 😢
Thank you for your excellent analysis. I was also disappointed that there appeared to be a misconception about autism in girls and women, as it is expressed so differently than in boys it goes under the radar and is less likely to be detected. I also wanted her to at least mention the effect of co-morbidities, like ADHD, because surely that would affect her research. As far as I can make out, autistic people with ADHD are much worse off in a neurotypical society than those who do not have ADHD. I also wondered exactly for whose benefit is the "treatment" for? To make the parents feel better that their child can be more sociable? How would that affect the person's other autistic traits? As an autistic women myself, I feel that some of my autistic traits are actually a super power, and if I asked if I wanted to trade that in order to be more sociable, it would be a resounding NO.
I wish I could 'like' your response 100x
I am 56. I received an diagnosis of autism about a month ago. The organization that paid for my diagnosis helps people with neurodevelopmental conditions like autism. They are actively trying to find adults like me who grew up when the diagnosis did not cover people with ASD1. It is important to find us, not only because we deserve to be aided and to understand ourselves, but because we are the future of children with autism. There is not enough information about how autism impacts people over the course of a lifetime, and those of us that are older living with autism can supply data to help future generations.
Thank you Andrew and Karen! If I may offer a slightly different perspective, I believe there is actually no LACK OF SOCIAL interest in autism as such. Based on my first-hand observations most (or at least many) individuals with autism are NOT 'asocial', they just cannot function, ie they cannot navigate the complex social environments or engage in social interactions due to upstream problems they have, such as sensory integration or simply brain (or language) processing speed. I personally know several children and adults with autism who CRAVE social interaction and social bonding, but simply cannot keep up and blend with their peers in real time. The outside world is too chaotic for them - neurotypical children play and talk and interact in fast, unpredictable, ever-changing ways. Due to their problems with processing and integrating sensory information from the environment children (or adults) with autism cannot REACT, ie inter-react with other children at the required speed and get left behind. Probably after a while they 'learn' that there is no point in trying. I once closely observed a child with a moderate degree of autism spending outdoor playing time with 20 or so classroom peers. This was not during a school day so it was completely unstructured, not adult-led. Neurotypical children are chaotic and most of the play was VERY fast-changing and without any structure. The child with autism kept trying to understand, and possibly join, other children, but they were just moving too fast from one activity to another. They were talking too fast too. It was sad to watch but it was clear that the child with autism wasn't disinterested but rather simply UNABLE to join in anything that other kids were doing. Please consider social impairment in autism to be a major CONSEQUENCE of sensory integration/language processing/brain energy impairment.
So rather than looking at ways to improve 'social interaction' directly, it is important that we instead try to improve things like motor and sensory processing, executive functioning, brain energy /lifting the brain fog etc.
(for the scientifically-minded: consider brain glycogen/glucose metabolism, esp astrocytic glycogenesis and lactate shuttle)
This is such a great point, but I do think it’s a mix of both or at varying degrees. My youngest has mild autism and he is able to play with his siblings because they are aware he needs more time to process game play and they tend to play legos and always go over game play rules. At school he is very much isolated during free play mostly due to the fact that as you mentioned other kids thought processes are quick and chaotic and are just overwhelming for him. However there are many situations where he chooses to be in his own even if there are ideal conditions, this could be do a sensory overload at times that he is unable to communicate, but I find a lot of the time it is a preference for him, he doesn’t see social interaction as beneficial where others do. Even with structured play at school he still picks and chooses when he wants to participate, having most of the variables you mentioned not being an issue in that play. It would be interesting to see studies based on game play opportunity for neurodivergent children and studying when they are more likely to socialize and play with others and the times they chose not to if it has to do with the sensory integration/ language processing/brain energy impairment or sensory overload. Social anxiety can be a co-factor for many or is it a consequence of the autism. Lots of unanswered questions but great conversations to have, and I really appreciate your point of view.
All the autistic people I know are like this. They WANT social connection but can't keep up enough to do it and can't do what comes intuitively and effortlessly to others. They may try and become rejected because of their awkwardness or differences that make others uncomfortable. And non-autistic people are seldom going to have the patience, empathy, understanding, and even curiosity to accommodate autistic people. I get it if they are kids because even neurotypically-developing kids have a lot to figure out. But we adults can do better and we can teach better to the kids. After enough years of rejection, autistic people may indeed lose a lot of interest in making social connections--because of society's deficits, not because of their own deficits.
@@carriebirmingham1450 this feels exactly correct. It's not that autistic people desire to be alone (although of course some may), but that they find socialising exhausting and therefore being alone is preferable to being exhausted. I think most autistic people want close connections and to feel accepted and understood.
I mean I was absolutely vehemently a-social as a child. For no reason other than complete lack of interest. That changed around 8-10 yrs old, so maybe that’s the developmental aspect??
Part of being a good social member of society is actually to ignore certain things. ,being able to lie effectively to your peers in ways they approve of. It's really complicated and strange. When we pick up on subtle cues from neurotypical people, it is hard for us to move past that and respond appropriately. Some of us can become good at acting "appropriately". We call this masking, and it is exhausting to us. On the other hand, if we are absorbed in a topic of interest and really into whatever it is we are doing, the outside world mealts away and we not only don't pick up on those subtle cues that can trip us up (and cause anxiety), but also on the overt things that neurotypical people want to have addressed (having us appear insensitive). It's so complicated....I wonder if the vasopressin just dampens both these intensities.
Finally, an episode for us who are brushed with the tism
Are you implying this man has autism?
Tism unite
@@clematistaiga no
A touch of the 'tism 🤞🏾🤷🏾♀️✌🏾
🙋🏻♀️
33-year-old here adult diagnosed, and I'm very excited for this episode!
Edit: I'm about a half hour in and so far I'm a bit let down with the guest. I'm just going to speak my mind exactly the way I feel in saying she reminds me of so many people I've dealt with over the years who have been extremely frustrating to communicate with because they simply don't know how to understand someone who's brain is wired differently on any level other than this highly clinical and scientific approach that seems to completely ignore the unique qualities of the autistic mind. Maybe I will feel differently as I continue listening but I was really hoping for something more thought-provoking than this.
When I was diagnosed it was very difficult to navigate at first because every bit of information I was taking in just made me feel worse about myself as I was realizing just how many things I struggle with and it was until I went through therapy about it and started meeting others that were more similar to myself that I started to feel like it was truly okay to be myself and acknowledge that I'm not limited but rather it's just a little more difficult to navigate a world that wasn't designed for a variety of different-minded people.
I hope my response doesn't come across as sounding negative because I'm still very appreciative of this episode, It just wasn't quite the sense of "ah someone who totally gets it" I was deeply hoping for. And perhaps all I was truly hoping for was to hear from someone who has been diagnosed themselves and doesn't come across like they're on the outside looking in.
Edit 2: still with it. Definitely starting to get a little bit better as it goes along. The stuff about oxytocin levels and vasopressin was very interesting to me so I'm glad I stuck with it. I feel like they are cracking a bigger nut open here because the deficit of oxytocin resonates strongly. I think the biggest factor we're not looking at is that the world is becoming more and more difficult to navigate because there's more and more of this artificial man-made stuff adding noise to our signal. That's why I feel the least brain fog in nature.
I have this similar struggle in research, I’m an ASD mom with 2/3 ASD kiddos. And I have not heard much discussion around the positive aspects of ASD.
I want to know the operational consciousness states of others with ASD I know what I have observed in my own little cluster, if you ask me why I’m not pro-social it’s because I don’t like engaging in weird ego-battles, and playing by imaginary rules.
I’m hyper-sensitive to my environment and being around too many people too often can just overload my system.
Have they looked at Mirror neurons in ASD, or synesthesia?
I have so many more questions!
Thank you for your comment. I kind of felt similar as a late diagnosed female.
@@tabathasmith3430 "ego battles" I love that! 😆
The probiotic strain Lactobacillus reuteri can increase oxytocin production. Look at the work of Dr William Davis related to L reuteri.
I'm 80 minutes in and I do not think it gets any better, frankly. The basic presupposition of this episode is that autism is essentially something you would want, or want for your child, to be free of. There's no discussion of how a social system is often the determining factor in making different neurological formations _dis-_ orders. No discussion of what qualities of mind a person with autism can have, or contribution (historical, present, evolutionarily) autism has had to humanity, progress, science, etc.
I have autism. I lead a life doing lots of public speaking, interacting with strangers in sales all day. I am successful at this job, however I do come home and have to decompress for hours after a day of intense masking. My family refused to allow me to seek any professional help growing up due to the stigma around it, so I adapted by doing a lot of my own reading and research and teaching myself how to be a “normal” human. Super looking forward to this episode.
Wow. Commendable.
Your use of the word "masking" is so...perfect. My youngest son is exhausted by most interactions with strangers and I'm striving to support him in every way I can.
I need to get him to a qualified health care provider but since my/our G.P. retired we are in limbo in that we do not presently have a G.P. nor any means to vet the competence of various health care providers.
I'll have to redouble my efforts.
Thank you. I appreciate your insight, especially taking on a job working in sales. It would be interesting to read about your experience and insight on customers' human behavior. I'm a regular grandmother and dread shopping around rude people. I hope you are well compensated when you give talks. We need your perspective.
The masking is exhausting
Just remember, it is made up by humans. You are awesome!
@@rosarioc.debaca1935 I will be honest, I can turn myself off from feeling a lot of things in the moment while I’m masking and being “sales version” of me. I think maybe it’s because it takes so much energy I don’t have the ability to perceive myself when I’m working so hard to perceive everything else around me, but I’m no scientist so I’m not sure. I don’t notice how rude people are until much later in the day when I go home and decompress and reassess the emotions and things I experienced in the day. I have a default in me to perceive most things as positive. I’ve had many one sided friendships (think 4 years of me considering someone a top friend) to discover those folks actually couldn’t stand me! 😂 I laugh about it now and I have no idea if this is the same for anyone else, maybe other folks default to assuming the negative. I know that there are a lot of wounds there that have made me more cautious, and yet it doesn’t affect me in the moment when I’m “on”. It makes me really damn good at what I do, at least.
I was very excited to see that there is finally an episode on autism. I have been eagerly awaiting this episode, and was thrilled to see that it had finally been made. Unfortunately, I was incredibly disappointed. The research on vasopressin in voles is interesting, but that was the only positive aspect of this episode. So much of what was included is incredibly ableist. It feels very much like the decision to interview Dr. Parker had more to do with Dr. Huberman's familiarity with her rather than her actual knowledge. She herself says that she does not work with autistic people and is not familiar with the lived experiences of members of the community.
I hope that Dr. Huberman takes the time to reexamine this topic with the inclusion of autistic voices. Autistic adults exist and there are an incredible number of autistic adults in this field of study who would be much better options as guests. Autism does not go away in adulthood. Some of us learn to mask such that our disabilities become more internal and thus less visible to others, but that does not mean we are no longer autistic. It is dehumanizing and infantilizing to not include us in research and discussions about us.
Additionally, Dr. Parker describes the parents involved in the creation of Autism Speaks as "heroes". Autism Speaks is widely regarded as a hate group. They push ABA as a "treatment" which has been repeatedly proven to be actively harmful to autistic people. The focus on conformity instead of accepting autistic people for who we are and focusing on our strengths, is inherently harmful.
I would suggest Dr. Huberman read about the medical versus the social model of disability. Being autistic is not an issue by itself. The way society is structured is what is disabling about being autistic. In our current society, there are situations in which masking becomes necessary especially for those of us who fall into other minority groups or do not have the financial security to navigate getting a diagnosis, or establishing a life that allows us the freedom to be ourselves. Learning those skills can be valuable, but being required to use them is fundamentally wrong. Being autistic is not a disease; variation within any species is normal and important. The discussion of possible "treatment" options requires a lot more nuance than is provided in this episode.
I also believe that several important factors were missed in this discussion, such as the prevalence of ADHD in autistic people, the reasons why there are fewer AFAB people diagnosed with autism, how to actually support autistic people, monotropism, stimming, the double empathy problem, etc.
I would recommend the book But You Don't Look Autistic at All by Bianca Toeps for a quick read that provides insight on one autistic person's lived experience, and I would recommend the journal Autism in Adulthood for academic papers on the topic.
I would also recommend having any of the following people on the podcast for a more in depth and meaningful perspective on autism:
- Dr. Robert Chapman
- Dr. Sandra Jones
- Dr. Monique Botha
- Dr. Heather Brown
- Dr. Sue Fletcher-Watson
- Dr. Joey Lawrence
- Dr. Marjorie Desormeaux-Moreau (I have only listened to her speak in french, but I gather she speaks english too)
- Dr. Aimee Grant
I'm sure other people have other suggestions to add here. I would love for other autistic people to reply to this comment to add their suggestions for autistic autism researchers who would make good guests for this podcast!
Spot on! The views on autism (and autists!) represented by Dr. Parker might as well be from 100 years ago :(
I hope your suggestions will be taken on board and a new episode with a more enlightened view on autism will come out at some point
Incredibly well said. Thank you. Unfortunately I don't have any specific recommendations for guests, but for all the reasons you covered as a late dx autistic adult I felt disappointed in this episode.
I scrolled down with disappointment to see if others felt the same and yours was the first comment. Thank you for such a well-said response. I definitely concur with all of this and hope he takes these suggestions into consideration!
Yes, yes yes. All this. AuDHD woman here. I'm really tired of hearing of autism constantly through the allistic viewpoint, and Autism Speaks as being a go-to for info about autism.
I love this comment so much! Thank you! I won’t waste my time watching because of how phenomenal your comment is.
My 2 year old daughter has been diagnosed with "moderate" autism. Since the diagnosis, I've been consuming everything I can get my hands on related to understanding the condition. As one of my favorite content creators, I'm absolutely elated that you've decided to cover this topic.... Thank you.
as the mother to a 26 year old with autsm cyber hugs
My book Living With Autism Undiagnosed will be out soon. It has a,lot of information that will help you more than this.
Wishing the best to you and your daughter! ❤
@@ruthhorowitz7625where can we find this book?
@@ruthhorowitz7625 That's true. While this is very interesting it doesn't really help with living with Autism.
I don't want a cure. I want support. I desire social interaction, but am not accepted. I would love to hear more from the perspective of people who are actually autistic. please.
Well autistic people who literally self harm and are disabled by the condition may want a cure/effective treatments. There’s only so much society can change, the world is still a harsh place for many autistic people no matter how “socially acceptable” it is, sensory stuff still hurts.
you just described me and i dont want a cure. treat the symptoms not the autism@@Anotherhumanexisting
that's what he means by treatment. he didn't use cure. two different words.
@@jlllx I’m more so referring to the fact that the methods they are using are to try and fix “deficits” and comparing autism to alzheimer’s. Instead of giving autistic people drugs to change their brains maybe we could give more social and behavioral supports.
Speak for yourself
I'm an adult and I've recently discovered that I am autistic. As a long time fan of this podcast, I was very excited about this episode. I feel disappointed by the structure and focus points of this episode, however. I was hoping for something as comprehensive as other Huberman Lab podcasts, that would answer at least some of the million questions I have about autism. Instead I got a very long and very specific lecture on how taking oxytocin may or may not help autistic children, interlaced with outdated misconceptions. Nothing I could relate to.
The comment section is useful however. I am really enjoying all the autistic straightforwardness here
I'm so glad our community finally stands up and fights back! 🥹
As a 34 year old functional adult (registered nurse and mother of 4) with autism... I thought this podcast was... not very good. 🤔😅
I agree
This is an odd episode to digest as an autist married to an autist raising two audhd kiddos. On the one hand I love knowing the whys of how things work and understanding autism mechanisms can only be beneficial. I’m also aware that there’s myriad experiences and if a child is stimming to the extent they hurt themselves it’s a very different experience to a kid who needs to jump and move regularly. And that parents raising kids with much more intense or harmful behaviours would want to mitigate them. But there seems to be no mention of self advocacy or that adult autists view curing autism very negatively and that autism speaks is considered a hate group and ABA to be inherently abusive/harmful (although practitioners vary wildly). It was also alienating to listen to the research details in terms of “we could make voles more social, could we make autists more social?”.
I’m often frustrated beyond words that autism is classed as a disorder with communication deficits when umpteen autism advocates will point out that we’re often clearer in our communication than allistic ppl.
And to be clear I’d love to ease some of my kids struggles that negatively impact them but I don’t want to cure them to allistic versions of themselves and this entire conversation ignored social changes that would benefit autists.
Very conflicted about how this was covered.
Thank-you Savannah. As an auadhd adult, and an extroverted one at that I also struggled with this episode. Personally, I've come to appreciate that the majority of my social challenges arise from my sensory processing challenges. Consequently, most of my accommodations centre around understanding and where possible, intervening in my sensory experiences.
If covering this topic in future, I would hope for greater consideration of the concept of neurodiversity. I do not consider my brain diseased. Nothing about us without us.
Exactly my thoughts. I don’t know why it is so important to make us more social. I also wholeheartedly agree that we autists are much clearer with communication than neurotypical people, so it would be maybe better if they get pumped with some drugs to make them stop saying one thing and meaning something different. Sarcasm off - I’m also really disappointed in this episode. We don’t need fixing, just a little more tolerance. This regime of neurotypical people is cruel and suffocating, just let us be ourselves and we will be fine. Just because I don’t like you, doesn’t mean I need a cure for it.
I understand wanting to treat an intellectual disability, but while prevalent in autistic people - it’s NOT part of autism, so I feel that scientists are focusing on a wrong thing altogether. Just leave us alone, I don’t need any drugs, thank you.
Well said.
I wish I could 'like' this comment 1000x over.
Beautifully put.
I'm possibly adhd, but with several audhd peeps running through my family.
I was hoping for more with this episode, and as I was listening I was asleep getting feelings of frustration with some of the terms used that also left me feeling like ND people were being dehumanised, and misrepresented. 😢
I wish I could 'like' this comment 1000x over.
Beautifully put.
I'm possibly adhd, but with several audhd peeps running through my family.
I was hoping for more with this episode, and as I was listening I was asleep getting feelings of frustration with some of the terms used that also left me feeling like ND people were being dehumanised, and misrepresented. 😢
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
07:06 🧬 *Autism rates have increased, with 1 in 36 U.S. children diagnosed with autism, indicating a significant rise in recent years.*
09:19 🧠 *Autism is diagnosed primarily based on behavioral criteria, focusing on pervasive social interaction challenges and restricted repetitive behavior.*
17:58 🧠 *Autism's underlying biological basis remains complex and multifaceted, making it challenging to identify specific neural networks or mechanisms.*
19:30 🧬 *Environmental factors, such as advanced parental age, prematurity, and maternal illness during pregnancy, can increase the risk of autism.*
20:56 🧬 *Developing sophisticated animal models and non-human primate models can provide valuable insights into autism research.*
22:46 🌿 *Prenatal environmental influences, including neuron migration during early development, may play a role in autism, although research in this area remains limited.*
22:48 🧠 *Neuronal migration during embryo development is crucial for brain wiring. Some research suggested a possible correlation between increased early prenatal ultrasounds and autism.*
27:08 🤝 *Oxytocin and vasopressin, small neuropeptides, play essential roles in social behavior, bonding, and various physiological processes across species.*
37:59 🤱 *Oxytocin has been associated with mother-infant bonding and uterine contractions during birth. Its release in response to specific events like vaginal delivery can influence bonding.*
45:36 🧠 *Oxytocin has been studied for its potential to diminish the amygdala's response to fearful stimuli, which may have pro-social effects.*
46:57 🧒 *Autistic children can vary in their social behavior, with some forming close friendships and being pro-social with specific friends while feeling uncomfortable in noisy or crowded settings.*
48:30 🤝 *Different phenotypes of autism exist, with some individuals being socially avoidant, others being socially active but odd in their interactions, and some having disinterest in social interactions.*
50:39 💊 *Oxytocin nasal spray administration is typically done in research settings, and it's not available over the counter. It requires a prescription from a physician.*
53:29 🔄 *Autism can have a lifelong impact, but some individuals may outgrow their diagnosis, respond well to behavioral therapy, or exhibit variability in their social functioning.*
01:05:17 🩺 *Oxytocin treatment's effectiveness in autism may depend on an individual's baseline oxytocin levels, which can vary, and more research is needed to determine its safety and long-term benefits for children with autism.*
01:08:03 🧪 *Psilocybin, MDMA, and atypical anti-depressants are being explored in trials for children with autism to potentially rewire the brain and improve their condition.*
01:08:45 📊 *Autism is a heterogeneous condition, making it challenging to identify suitable participants for trials and determine the best treatments.*
01:09:28 🧒 *Oxytocin may be most effective in younger children due to neuroplasticity, potentially offering maximum benefits at a younger age.*
01:10:24 🏥 *Early autism screening and intervention are crucial, but long clinic wait times hinder timely diagnosis and treatment.*
01:11:35 🩺 *Developing laboratory-based tests or biomarker panels could help prioritize children at risk for autism and expedite diagnoses and interventions.*
01:12:44 🧒 *Challenges in making behavioral testing for autism pervasive include scalability, the need for specialized clinicians, and resource disparities.*
01:15:44 💊 *The potential use of MDMA, with its serotonin release and neuroplasticity effects, in autism treatment is a topic of interest but faces challenges, especially in children.*
01:21:06 🧠 *Vasopressin, similar to oxytocin, is produced in the human brain and body, with receptors distributed throughout the brain.*
01:22:28 👨👧👦 *Vasopressin can induce bonding and paternal care in male prairie voles, showing its role in social behavior.*
01:26:08 🐭 *Vasopressin, when administered to male voles, dramatically increases their paternal caregiving behavior, demonstrating the peptide's potent effects.*
01:28:30 🐒 *Dr. Karen Parker discusses the origins of funding for autism research, including philanthropic contributions from organizations like Autism Speaks and individuals like Jim Simons.*
01:30:33 🧪 *Blood oxytocin levels are not a reliable marker for autism, as they vary widely even among people without autism, challenging the oxytocin deficit hypothesis.*
01:31:54 🔬 *Dr. Parker emphasizes the importance of focusing on social challenges and neuropeptide deficits in autism research rather than getting caught up in diagnostic labels.*
01:32:47 🧠 *Exploring neuropeptides like vasopressin may offer valuable insights into understanding and treating autism, potentially more so than oxytocin.*
01:38:31 🐵 *Dr. Parker discusses the establishment of a primate model for autism research, emphasizing the need for species-appropriate models for complex behaviors.*
01:47:48 🧪 *Biomarker discovery in monkeys allowed researchers to differentiate between socially low and high monkeys, opening possibilities for identifying similar markers in humans with social challenges.*
01:52:28 🚸 *The research suggests that low levels of vasopressin in cerebral spinal fluid could be a biomarker for autism.*
01:57:47 💡 *Infants who later received an autism diagnosis had lower CSF vasopressin levels, indicating a potential early biomarker.*
02:03:03 🧪 *Further research is needed to determine if vasopressin replacement therapy could be beneficial for individuals with autism.*
02:08:50 💊 *Studies are being conducted to explore potential drug interactions with vasopressin and alternative therapies to release vasopressin naturally.*
02:10:10 🧪 *Dr. Karen Parker conducted a study using vasopressin as a potential treatment for autism in children, aiming to improve social responsiveness.*
02:11:47 🧒 *In the study, vasopressin was administered twice a day for four weeks to children aged 6 to 12 with autism, and the primary outcome measure was the Social Responsiveness Scale (SRS).*
02:12:55 🧩 *The SRS assesses various aspects of social behavior in children with autism, such as social interactions, initiation, gaze, and restrictive repetitive behaviors.*
02:14:32 🧪 *Children with autism who received vasopressin treatment showed improvements in social abilities, as reported by parents, clinicians, and laboratory-based tests.*
02:15:56 🚀 *Some children also experienced reduced anxiety and diminished restricted repetitive behaviors, indicating potential broader effects of vasopressin treatment.*
02:19:26 🤔 *The mechanism of action of vasopressin in improving social behavior and cognition in autism is not yet fully understood, and further research is needed to explore brain circuits and receptors involved.*
02:28:03 🦠 *There is some intriguing mouse research suggesting that the gut microbiome may play a role in social deficits, and probiotics could potentially impact oxytocin and vasopressin levels in the brain, affecting social behavior.*
02:31:15 🧠 *Gut microbiota diversity can influence gene expression of oxytocin and vasopressin in the hypothalamus through the vagal pathway, potentially linking the microbiome to social behavior.*
02:32:20 🧪 *Exploring the use of vagal nerve stimulation in autistic individuals to investigate its potential impact on social behavior and related blood level changes.*
02:34:29 💰 *Funding challenges and the need for increased support for research on autism treatment, especially during critical developmental windows in children.*
02:35:11 📊 *The use of open-label extension arms in medication trials for autism to ensure that all participants have access to the drug and to gather additional data.*
02:36:20 💩 *Ongoing research into fecal transplants as a potential treatment for autism, along with investigations into oxytocin nasal spray and vasopressin administration.*
02:38:11 💉 *Roche's study using a vasopressin V1a receptor antagonist to treat autism and how it contrasts with Dr. Karen Parker's research, which aims to increase vasopressin levels.*
02:47:02 💉 *The history of the vaccine-autism controversy, including Andrew Wakefield's fraudulent study, the subsequent debunking, and the lack of scientific support for vaccines causing autism.*
02:52:34 🧒 *Administering vasopressin to low social functioning children in a small study resulted in symptom improvement, indicating a potential causal relationship.*
02:53:01 🌟 *Dr. Karen Parker's dedication to tackling the complexities of autism research and her efforts to explore novel treatments, despite funding challenges, is crucial for progress in the field.*
02:53:42 🙏 *Gratitude for Dr. Parker's valuable insights and commitment to advancing our understanding of autism's biological foundations and potential treatments. The hope for future updates on her research progress.*
Thank you
Not all heroes wear capes.
wow, thanks!
Thank you!
Thank youu🙏
As many others were, i was quite disappointed in this one as an autistic adult.
The guest seems to approach, or at least speak, as if autistic individuals can only be animalistically observed in order to learn about them. There are MANY of us that can speak through our experiences and would love to educate people on our differences.
Behavior is only what is observed which is why so many of us who were "well-behaved" or "high-functioning" dont get the diagnosis, knowledge of ourselves, or resources we need. This is why its misinterpreted as being grown-out of ad well. The coping and social learning makes the "autistic behaviors" (struggles) go away but the bottom up, detail oriented, literalist brain stays forever.
In my opinion calling this a behavior disorder is so minimizing. Those behaviors happen as a result of the brain processing and external factors.
Thanks, being the parent of an autistic child, I will not watch this. Looks like this will upset me more than help
I’m an autistic adult watching this and I’m jolted everything time I hear things like ‘challenge of the brain’, ‘brain disorder’, ‘migration error of neurones’, ‘risk factors’ for autism…etc. It actually makes me sick. So casually talking about people like they are failed humans. Can we please stop with the deficit model, like neurotypical is the ideal? So many successful neurodiverse folks. The medical model is cruel. Please listen to yourselves and check your language.
100%. I’m a retired doctor who works now to promote peoples’ neurodiverse traits.
You ar 10:12 e absolutely RIGHT. I will be gone before the tide shifts. Dx at 56 in the UK now 74. I break all the stereotypes Many us do.
Don't you understand terms like neurotypical and neurodiverse is the medical model?
@@TDL-xg5nn You're incorrect. The medical model of autism is looking at it as being a disorder that can someday be cured. Neurodiversity movement is a model of autism that thinks of autism has a difference.
Andrew, can we please have a conversation about Autism? This episode left me feeling like youre both missing so much.
Totally agree. I stopped halfway because it's too painful to watch how wrong all of this could be interpreted.
Agree, both sound totally deluded, but guess that pays best.
Several parents of autistic children have said ABA therapy was actually harmful to their child. I personally chose not to go that route. I’m autistic and so are my three children. We prefer to stay at home and work on social issues at the pace that is appropriate for each child. Diet and constant affection helps with oxytocin. The introduction of pet cats and dogs into the family for more affection opportunities has been fantastic in our household. I was never diagnosed as a child and made it through college and motherhood without being aware I was autistic. It only got hard for me postpartum as I continued to mask trying to keep up with the superhuman stoic ideal I had committed myself to since childhood. Motherhood had left very little time for healthy left hemisphere activities. Being more conscious of how I spend my “me” time and becoming self aware of overlooked behaviors and symptoms has been the best therapy.
I meant both right hemisphere and left hemisphere balanced activities.
ASD male here. That is so beautiful. The happiest I remember being was spending time with a bunch of animals on a ranch. Cats, dogs, horses, chickens... I connected with them a few years back when I was 20 and it was so elating. A good time productively as a result. I myself miss having a dog around the home.
I dont even remember how many times I spammed the comment section asking Andrew to release episodes for Autism & Intellectual/Learning Disabilities.
Thankyou Andrew for finally releasing this episode and helping the parents around the world with this much awaited discussion ❤
Same here!!
Huberman has asked that people request topics which they would like to see discussed....and he has reassured that he DOES read comments...and this episode (and others, presented previously) prove that he is a man of his word. ❤
This was for me, not the parents.
I found being on spectrum I could learn fast than others once I leaned in to autistic side. Just look spaced out and absorb information. When masking I pretend to look like I'm paying attention but I'm not paying attention at all and putting all my energy in keeping the mask up. I also stim a lot when learning. In post secondary I did this when I realized I'm paying to be so I'll learn how I learn. In school I had to mask or be punished.
Oh goodness… I just hope Dr Humerman is reading all feedback- I love the podcast and have been waiting for autism to be covered. This episode was so ableist. I am shocked. I have faith that this will be an opportunity and when ‘we know better, we do better’- and many can learn from you taking feedback from the autistic community. I look forward to you learning more and then sharing your new awareness and understandings.
Totally agree! I was really disappointed by this episode. I hope Dr. Huberman takes this opportunity to do another episode interviewing an autistic adult in the field. There is so much problematic with this episode, and I'm glad to see members of the autistic community commenting about it.
Can't emphasize this enough. I do not have autism but I'm very close to people that do, and I found this episode very frustrating. I'm only 80 minutes in and I'm questioning whether to listen any longer, given the whole episode presupposes: this is something that needs to be treated; if you have a kid with autism, you deserve and should want treatment options. They acknowledge the heterogeneity of how autism presents, but apparently not that many people with autism see their differences as positive, as historically and presently very significant for humanity, and as "disordered" chiefly to the extent that social norms punish them.
As an autistic myself I couldn't listen further then 20minutes in ... disorder? High functioning? No thanks ... thanks for the person, who did the Key Takeaways from sparing me to having to listen to somebody talking about "philanthropic contributions from organizations like Autism Speaks" ... wow ... just wow. I really hope he talks to an actually autistic researcher.
Completely agree!!!!!
I realize there’s a lot of material to cover but just saying there are “less females” without touching on how females present so differently that they go undiagnosed for DECADES, ( even though they meet all DSM criteria), is very disappointing. Girls present VASTLY different than boys and often are so much better at masking autism that they can spend their whole lives suffering in silence, and being misdiagnosed to their detriment
I think that's very important in the greater conversation about autism, but this conversation is based around pure research. As a research scientist, she can only speak on research that currently exist. I think they make it pretty clear that we're just beginning to understand autism and still have a long way to go.
@@tiptapkey you have a good point it’s just frustrating.
@@CajunCraft24 SO frustrating. I'm a woman who was undiagnosed for decades myself.
@@tiptapkey same. I was 50. I would’ve been happy with 2 sentences addressing it. It’s definitely one of the reasons why there are suddenly more autistics.
Autism is a very misunderstood disorder in society. And this podcast completely reflects that... There was barely any explanation on what autism is. Aside from social behavior. Which is only a small aspect of autism. And not everyone with autism has the same problems with social behavior. I feel this podcast is only going to make the misunderstanding worse. Also treatment? There is managing the symptoms, and that's it really. Treating autism in its entirety would also mean changing personality. If there was treatment available, I would absolutely decline! I am myself. And I'm not going to change myself because others don't want to take the effort to understand who I am!
Autisitc Adult-why are children referenced the majority of the time autism is discussed? The autism doesn’t go away…the child with autism grows up. Infant, toddler, child, teenager, young adult, adult, elderly…what does the current stage in the life of the autistic individual have to do with anything? It feels as though the world wants us to just disappear. “We will address this issue as long as we can keep it as sympathetic as possible…let’s talk about the children”
Because autism is for kids.
I'm ASD, and I can personally share that chronic neural inflammation (i.e. stress) and/or neural stress (GABA Glycine avail) are primary factor for me personally.
YES YES and YES
Thanks so much for bringing this up. Many are not aware that much of what they think of as autism symptoms is actually inflammation, plus magnesium, sulphoraphane/glutothione deficiency symptoms which are more likely in people with autism
Do you take any supplements or food to decrees this stress effect?
Do you supplement with GABA? I’m curious to try.
@@zacet I personally take astaxanthin, omega-3, Glycine, NAC, collagen, Magnesium, Salt, and Potassium (Be careful here). It is important to note that I practice low carb eating, and make most of my food, so my natural salt intake is essentially zero from food. I eat blueberries, green veg, eggs, and olive oil every day. In the evenings, I sometimes take 5-htp and GABA before bed, but have not needed it recently. This stack essentially makes me a different human being. I can't emphasize enough how I literally feel like I have a different, more relaxed, more even, personality if I am "on diet". Interestingly, I think I like my ASD. I am very creative, and have many ideas all the time (like drinking from a firehose). So, I noticed (and can't explain) a personal dip in creativity when "healthy" -- not in some kind of sedated way -- just in what feels like a normal way. So I sometimes go off diet or supplements when I have a tough analytical problem to dig into for some days, to let the beast out of the cage. However, I also know how to "get back on track" when I find life is so overwhelming I feel the urge to turn my phone off and hide in my room / quit my job. Having this control, and self knowledge, has been life changing. Hope you / everyone finds what works for them.
@@leniolesch896 I personally used to a lot, but then I found Glycine made me feel a similar way, so I now lean more heavily into collagen and glycine. I do still take GABA near bed when I want an extra good sleep -- or if I am having a horrid day, I sometimes stack GABA + 5-htp and go for a jog / hot bath (I'm lucky I work from home) to give my system a mid day come down.
I've been listening to this podcast since the first episode, and almost since that point I've been dreading this episode as an autistic person. I just knew you were going to have someone on who is allistic, who subscribes to the deficit / medical model of autism, who thinks it's a disease that needs to be "cured" or "treated," who blatantly ignores the research AND lived experiences of millions of autistic people who don't fit the assumptions (often incorrect) that allistic people make about us... yet even though I expected it, it's still exceedingly disappointing. Autism is a complicated topic, but it's still SO EASY to discuss in a way that isn't dehumanizing and harmful. Yet for some unknown reason, it's still rare to see neurotypical people do so... and meanwhile we're supposedly the ones with social problems and lack of empathy. Amazing.
Thank you for this comment. I will brace myself before watching.
He is a professor. They benefit from the system, status quo. We are $$$ to them fundamentally,
social problems and lack of empathy, they are 2 things my son does not have, he just shows it , expresses these things in a slightly different way to those who consider themselves as 'normal', whatever these people define as normal. I totally understand why you feel this way x
I agree. I think he will be hearing from hundreds of autistic adults on this one. Two neurotypical people (I assume) talking about autistic people and autistic brains from the outside, from appearances, from behaviors, are going to miss an entire world of important information.
@@carriebirmingham1450 Exactly - on top of how damaging this kind of conversation on a platform like he has is, they are also just simply missing a lot of very obvious explanations for things that they could easily have gotten if they just asked any random autistic person.
I am a 50 year old Aspie. My father is autistic. His father was autistic, and my great grandfather was autistic. If you’re trying to cure a genetic line, you’re going down the wrong path.
This^^ I can trace autism across both my paternal and maternal lines.
Yeah when I found out it runs in the family it made it easier to join the dots.
No one is saying curing Autism, only treatment
Exactly. We don’t need to be treated, we’re not wrong. Society should respect our special needs. I was very disappointed about this episode.
@@leniolesch896 the fact that you can comment here you do not need treatment. But my non verbal children surely do.
Im autistic and I appreciated the whole podcast; except your last sentence that this is how diseases are cured - autism is not a disease and as dibilitating as it can be sometimes for myself, Ive never considered it a disease that i need or wish to cure. As I said in an comment below, I also feel that the concept of early integration to change and modify behaviour and what will end up as not only behaviour but personality changes to the individual child are disrespectful to the child's natural functional capacity - there's nothing inherently wrong with an autistic child and therefore what will soon become an autistic adult - it is those of the neurotypical that consider changes and modification necessary to integrate into societal norms and standards of their way of life - and we are learning more each day this is of no benefit when 20% of the worlds population are neurodivergent. We have our own strengths and i dont consider stamping out our inherent experience a positive aspect of behavioural change. we should be integrating education and understanding/ empathy for autistic people - not segregation until proven compliant of structural expectation.
This is exactly how I feel. Thanks for sharing
Others are not like you. Some people have hard times functioning and they don't feel good.
@@franca2468 some people, like myself, have a hard time functioning and don’t want to be cured as if I have a disease
You just want your kids to improve and become independent.
@@franca2468 i think it highly ignorant to assume I dont have troubles with my fucntional capacity. Even if "other are not like me"; no, theyre not. They dont have my trauma of rape or growing up in a drug-related violent household. But they sure as hell are on a spectrum of constantly minsunderstanding, misaligned communication, dysfuntional regulatiotory systems and distress/overwhelmed from "regular" experiences in societal standards of living and a host of other shit that is exhausting to live with let alone feel like you have to justify or explain to people.
Dr. Parker, I appreciate you doing research on autism, as we certainly need more of it, and it's good to see increased awareness and willingness to understand. However, throughout the video, I felt we were dehumanized, as you did not once discuss the perspective of autistic individuals. I was hoping to better understand: On what basis do you want to improve "social performance" and what are the goals - is it quantity of interactions, understanding social cues, avoiding exhaustion, etc? Autistic people may have a lower needs in terms of quantity to socialise than neurotypical people - although not always. Or we may be content with different types of interactions than neurotypical people. Are you suggesting it's bad if that's the case? Do you think there is a case in your research for appreciating our own preferences while supporting us with our genuine struggles?
Also, you only referenced conversations with parents - do you ever ask participants about their experiences before, during and after experiments? Understanding if they feel better afterwards seems an essential indicator. I know this is biological research, but we are not just monkeys or mice or voles to observe - we can speak and provide invaluable insights that observations alone may miss.
It will be fascinating to see your continued results and if you eventually incorporate participant feedback. This could strengthen your work by ensuring it aligns with the priorities of those you aim to serve - as I sincerely hope it's not just the parents you're trying to please.
Dr. Huberman - May I also suggest inviting Dr. Devon Price for a discussion about autism? It would be interesting to capture another perspecitve and I'd be curious to learn about their take on this research. Thank you for this conversation!
Very well said! My thoughts exactly.
Also, the quick mention of behavioral therapy as being able to "lessen" someone's autism was also a bit shocking to me. Just because someone was coerced into behaving differently, often through inhumane means, does not mean they're cured because they have learned to push through and suppress.
@@blueberry2720Yes!
@@blueberry2720 Dr. Devon Price is a good suggestion!
disappointing episde- the focus was on autism as something bad- a medical problem. We are the technological innovators, the creators, the outside the box thinkers and artists. Undiagnosed autistic people are actually over represented in medicine and academia. We are all around you, Andrew. Please try again with some respect for our struggles. Instead of hopping on the funding bandwagon to prove what's 'wrong' with us, how 'bout giving us some help in dealing with our overwhelmingly disabling society & environments we occupy.
While this was very interesting, I find it disappointing that a) there was no information about females masking and b) there was not one piece of information that relates to neurodivergent adults, not one! There seems to be an expectation, that autism magically disappears on the 18th birthday of a person. If only it would. While it is of course important to help kids, who are on the spectrum, it would be lovely, if someone would also consider adults on the spectrum.
As a high masking Autistic female, not diagnosed until 45, I agree.
I completely agree! ❤
@@Livinginthegrayarea I just checked how many papers in Pubmed contained the terms "adult*" and "autism" in their title. 38 hits. Of course those are not all papers since I did not use all kinds of search terms, but this is already very depressing. I do not know of any other medical condition, where an entire group is being ignored. Even if we all agreed to utilise all resources only on neurodivergent children, these children will become adults some day. And then what?
Female masking is not a biological it's a social phenomenon. Even I did not mask unil the culture in my country changed to a western culture that is basically a "social crusader" kind of culture that is actively dictating people how to live.
While autism IS biological and so it makes total sense to focus on children if you want to understand the condition that is biological in nature
* women in particular
For men there's more flexibility in how they can express themselves in western culture
I absolutely love this person. I strive everyday to follow the morning plan. It has helped me tremendously! Thank you, sir!
Why? I can't stand her.
same, it's amazing how much more sensory input I can handle when i take better care of myself
Dr Parker? Why? @ruthhorowitz7625
I noticed above that you have written a book on autism so that answered my 2nd question, which was to be, ‘are you autistic?’
Curious to know what you find so offensive about the doctor - or perhaps her field of study or expertise?
As someone who has followed you for years and who has a child with autism, I've been waiting for this one. Huberman Dads everywhere thank you!
I have an adopted son with autism, and though this podcast was very interesting and well made, as all of Andrew Huberman 's. podcast, I found it of a very little practical value. Obviously I expected too much, there is no miracle cure😢😢😢
2:43:00 As a mother of a son with autism,-I do not believe vaccines CAUSE autism, but I do believe that administering these vaccines as a one size fits all, without looking at the child’s genetics, can be (and has been) dangerous. In the same way that one person can take a medication and be fine, while another has an adverse or even fatal, reaction to it, can the same not be true for vaccines ? Maybe we’re asking the wrong question. Not “Do vaccines cause autism” but “can vaccines contribute to the development of autism in children who already have a genetic predisposition for it”…especially since we know genes can be turned on/off based on external factors like environmental, etc.
They do. There's too much research showing how the development of the baby in utero is affected by what mom is exposed to. And they now have lawsuits out about the connection between Tylenol and autism. Its gaslighting parents who literally take their healthy normal child in to get their shots, only to end up with a child who immediately starts showing signs of illness and regression. The amount of ppl who gaslight parents or even adults, about vaccine injuries, is kind of alarming. Even now there's a new syndrome they are calling post vaccine syndrome after getting the COVID shots, cause of all the adverse effects ppl are having from those.
It’s about inflammation…
00:00 🧠 Autism diagnoses have increased, partly due to improved early detection, with children now diagnosed around ages 2-3 compared to 9-10 in the past.
07:06 📈 Autism rates in the US have risen to 1 in 36 children, with a higher prevalence among boys.
09:51 🔄 Autism diagnosis relies on behavioral signs: social interaction challenges and restricted repetitive behaviors, assessed by psychiatrists or psychologists.
10:47 🧒 Early behavioral interventions for autism often follow diagnosis, but some studies explore interventions with at-risk infants from families with prior autism cases.
12:25 📊 Studies show a higher occurrence of autistic traits in individuals from STEM fields like engineering, suggesting a link between certain professions and higher autistic traits.
15:26 🎭 Autism presents diverse traits, suggesting a spectrum across various dimensions rather than just severity, including neurodivergence and a range of behaviors.
17:19 🧬 Autism's biological basis is complex; it's associated with genetic variants, potentially linked to synaptic alterations, but studying it in the brain remains challenging.
19:47 🧠 Modeling autism in animals has limitations, as control animals often lack human-like characteristics necessary to mirror the disorder accurately.
21:53 🤰 Environmental factors like advanced parental age, prematurity, and maternal illness during pregnancy are associated with increased autism risk, highlighting gene-environment interactions.
23:16 🤰 Ultrasounds during pregnancy have been linked to potential migration errors in neurons, suggesting a correlation between ultrasound frequency and autism incidence.
24:41 🧬 Autism studies face complexity due to diverse genetic backgrounds; stratified trials and targeted medication testing in specific subgroups are necessary for accurate conclusions.
27:37 🔄 Conditions like Timothy Syndrome show autism linked with heart issues, raising questions on whether autism might be a spectrum of various disorders rather than a singular condition.
29:54 🧩 The challenge lies in defining autism biologically; behavioral diagnoses complicate understanding the condition's varied forms and origins.
38:13 🤝 Oxytocin's role in bonding varies across species; in primates, it might not be solely triggered by birth events, emphasizing the complexities of bonding mechanisms.
44:09 🧠 While oxytocin's involvement in bonding is presumed in humans, its specific effects and receptor locations in the brain remain a subject of study, requiring more targeted research methods for accurate insights.
45:49 🧠 Oxytocin's initial perception as a "love hormone" shifted to exploring its role in trust and social behavior.
46:31 🧠 Oxytocin potentially reduces the amygdala's output, impacting threat perception and favoring pro-social behavior.
47:11 🧩 Autistic children might show discomfort in noisy, crowded settings but exhibit strong social connections with specific friends.
48:05 🧩 Subtypes of social features in autism include social avoidant behavior, difficulty reading social cues, and interactions leading to bullying.
49:28 🧠 Initial studies administered oxytocin to males due to safety concerns but indicated potential positive effects on individuals with autism.
50:39 🧠 Oxytocin nasal spray requires prescription; currently, no drugs treating the core features of autism are available.
53:01 🧩 Autism's impact can be lifelong, but some individuals outgrow the diagnosis, responding well to behavioral therapy.
56:04 🧠 Studies indicate a potential benefit from oxytocin treatment in individuals with lower baseline blood oxytocin levels.
01:03:12 🧠 Oxytocin appears relatively safe in pediatric populations, but identifying potential beneficiaries and wider prescription usage pose challenges.
01:06:27 🧠 Neuroplasticity-focused approaches beyond oxytocin, like those seen in depression treatments, could hold promise in addressing autism's social symptoms.
01:08:18 🧠 Medications like MDMA and atypical antidepressants are explored in autism treatment, not due to deficiencies but to potentially rewire the brain.
01:09:14 🧪 Oxytocin might be most effective in younger ages, emphasizing potential benefits during early childhood for autistic children.
01:10:24 🕒 Early autism screening accessibility and reducing clinic wait times are crucial for timely intervention, potentially impacting long-term outcomes.
01:11:06 🧬 Developing laboratory-based biomarker panels for early autism detection and intervention is a critical need in current diagnostics.
01:12:44 🧑⚕ Accessibility to autism testing is limited due to the extensive training required for expert diagnoses, causing disparities in diagnoses based on socio-economic factors.
01:15:59 💊 Exploring MDMA or similar compounds for autism treatment faces challenges due to parental reluctance regarding psychedelic medications for children.
01:17:25 🧠 Vasopressin, similar to oxytocin, plays a crucial role in social behavior and bonding, but it has received less attention in comparison.
01:22:41 🐭 Vasopressin's role in paternal behavior was observed in male voles, inducing attentive fathering behavior when administered, showcasing its potent influence on behavior.
01:26:08 🔍 Brain circuitry's latent potential and the role of peptides as switches highlight the complexity and potential of existing neural networks in behavior regulation.
01:28:43 🧬 Dr. Karen Parker entered autism research through investigating social interaction impairments and their potential connection to neuropeptides like oxytocin.
01:30:19 🧠 Blood oxytocin isn't a clear marker for autism; lower levelsseem linked to social difficulties regardless of diagnosis.
01:31:40 🎯 Shifting focus from the diagnosis of autism to understanding social challenges in both children and adults provides insights into neuropeptide deficits and their potential role.
01:35:33 🐒 Exploring primate models for autism, especially in old world monkeys, offers a more relevant approach compared to relying solely on rodent models.
01:41:29 💡 Validation of a monkey model for autism with behaviors mirroring autistic traits lays a foundation for better understanding and treatment development.
01:45:06 💊 The limitations of relying solely on rodent models for medication testing highlight the importance of considering primate models for more accurate predictions of human responses.
01:49:39 🧬 Vasopressin levels in cerebral spinal fluid are indicative of social functioning, distinguishing high or low social behavior in monkeys.
01:51:05 🐒 Grooming behavior in monkeys indicates social bonds, with low vasopressin levels correlating to less grooming time.
01:52:15 🧠 Research explored translating observations from monkey studies into human insight, focusing on cerebral spinal fluid (CSF) levels of vasopressin in autism.
01:56:09 📊 CSF vasopressin levels showed potential as a biomarker for autism, displaying high accuracy in classifying individuals.
01:57:47 🚸 Low CSF vasopressin levels were consistent across genders in individuals with autism, correlating with greater social symptom severity.
02:01:26 🧪 Studying CSF vasopressin levels in infants prior to behavioral symptoms of autism aims to explore early biomarkers and intervention potential.
02:03:31 💧 CSF vasopressin levels are hypothesized to indicate production issues in autism, potentially influencing social development trajectories.
02:06:31 🚽 Investigating potential excessive urination in autistic children might reveal insights into vasopressin's peripheral actions, supplementing autism diagnosis.
02:08:22 🌐 Research explores alternative therapies or medications to modulate vasopressin levels for potential autism treatment.
02:10:37 🧬 Vasopressin, in controlled doses, showed potential effects on social abilities in children with autism in a trial setting.
02:11:47 🧪 The Social Responsiveness Scale (SRS) was used as a primary outcome measure in the trial, assessing social interaction and behaviors in children with autism.
02:14:32 📈 Vasopressin treatment led to increased social abilities reported by parents, clinicians, and observed in laboratory-based tests in treated children with autism.
02:15:56 🧠 Responses to vasopressin treatment varied among children; some showed improved social skills, reduced anxiety, and diminished repetitive behaviors, while others didn't respond significantly.
02:21:17 🤔 Nasal spray delivered vasopressin in the trial, targeting brain circulation, although the mechanism behind its effects on social cognition remains unclear.
02:24:04 🧭 Further research aims to understand brain regions impacted by vasopressin, potentially through functional brain imaging and receptor studies.
02:26:10 🤝 Despite unknown mechanisms, if vasopressin can improve the lives of individuals with autism, ethical considerations favor its continued exploration and application in a scientifically sound manner.
02:28:03 💡 There's intriguing research suggesting the potential interplay between gut microbiome and vasopressin levels, seen in mouse models, influencing social behavior. Further studies explore this connection in humans.
02:32:09 🧠 Gut-brain connection: The vagal pathway links gut microbiota to oxytocin production in the brain, suggesting a significant role in autism treatments.
02:33:33 💰 Funding challenges: Limited funding delays critical research in autism treatment, affecting vital studies during critical developmental windows.
02:35:11 🔬 Clinical trials & openness: Studies involving autistic children often include an open-label extension, enabling placebo groups to access medication post-trial, ensuring ethical and safety evaluations.
02:36:33 🧬 Ongoing trials: Current research includes fecal transplants and oxytocin nasal sprays for autism, although funding limitations affect exploration and continuation of these studies.
02:37:30 💊 Vasopressin treatments: Contrasting approaches - positive trials with vasopressin administration for autism, while a pharmaceutical trial using an antagonist showed negative results, suggesting different impacts on social behavior.
02:43:45 💉 Vaccines & autism: Studies have debunked the link between vaccines and autism. Historically, fear and controversy have hindered researchers from addressing immunological aspects of autism, affecting critical investigations.
02:51:24 🤔 Challenging discussions: Discussions around vaccine necessity and safety exist, leading to concerns about the number of vaccines children receive, highlighting the need for transparent information and informed decisions.
@@dameanvilTHANK you for the added synopsis with regards to each time stamp. As we know, Huberman's team now presents transcripts well-nigh "instantly" and the time stamps ARE provided....but I sincerely appreciate the added descriptors YOU have provided here.
I'm ~ as yet ~ in real time still early in this podcast...but as I am listening (on the PC) I "read ahead" in the comment section and was DELIGHTED to read your posts.
Thank you, again.
I, for one, genuinely appreciate your efforts on behalf of all.
Well done.
Reading your posts FURTHER PIQUED my curiosity/excitement to listen to the balance of this podcast. I listen (and re-listen) to virtually all podcasts...and I love the BENEFITS I have reaped from the many actionable protocols I daily practice. ❤
@@DanceintheRaine666 Wow! That is an unusually long reply. Thank you. I loved reading it.
He is the messiah! Thanks for the snynopsis, man. It helps when going along with the video or recapping on previous parts.
Love you! ❤❤
You saved three hours of my time.
We took my daughter to Dr’s, specialists, psychologists never getting to the bottom of it until almost her 18th birthday. Autism. So much frustration trying to get to that diagnosis. She feels better finally having a diagnosis, that there is an actual reason for the way she is. It was so hard to know what to do for her. The school was no help, just round and round lip service and the bullying never stopped. Her Dad is an engineer and I am medical science. She also has PCOS, and has had gi issues from birth, speech therapy, group socialization therapy, anxiety, depression, ADD, gender dysphoria.But she is functioning. It’s frustrating to not have be able to find some early intervention/diagnosis for her. This is such a need as the numbers are climbing. Enjoyed the interview. Thank you.
BioMag Healer
Search for somatic exercises or trauma release, she needs it
Is she high masking? Unmasking (allowing oneself to act as they are and not suppress behavior for the sake of others) has done WONDERS for me. I was diagnosed at 37. Masking has caused irreversible trauma. Sending you + your daughter love ❤
Numbers are only climbing because there’s more and more knowledge around it. Just a couple years ago it was thought to be a boy only thing. Also it’s a hereditary thing and doesn’t just appear. My dad is also an engineer and his dad from trade and many more people before them I got it from them.
My teen also has most of these you listed. I would be curious to know more about the frequency of any of these combined with autism.
Also, bless you, I know this hasn’t been easy for you all.
There are plenty of autistic people who have their own youtube channels who don't bother to try and 'cure' themselves of autism. Those channels are about acceptance of autism. There is not one of them I have seen that pathologizes autism. Many or most learnt to mask autism in order to appear 'normal', and now they are here to unpack that. The problem is that the dominant order is neurotypical or neurotypical acting, and this is the core of the disability, not the person themselves. I do believe that autistic people should get accommodations and have their needs met with therapies etc but they need to be neurodivergent accepting. It's still a matter of being neurologically different, a fundamental difference that should be respected rather than pathologized.
Eh, sure. The negative downsides seem to far outweigh the positive by orders of magnitude. Life expectancy, relationships, being extremely expensive for the economy. The amount of people who have it who wish they didn't is more than enough to warrant this podcast. It's not just one perspective on this, so please be tolerant that not everyone wants to create life that will have unnecessary difficults in the real world.
@@willek1335 You do understand that some of the upsides of autism include winning WW2 thanks to Alan Turing. Or the discovery of the photo-electric effect thanks to Albert Einstein.
Received my official diagnosis 2 months ago, really excited for this episode 🙏🏻
40 and received mine last year. Life makes a lot more sense now.
Doesn't look promising to me. Diagnosed at 57.
@@ruthhorowitz7625hang in there, it will get better. Find resources and seek help while navigating through it. It will get better!!!
Prayers for you
Diagnosed a year ago, life makes a lot more sense now too.
I felt that with them using the chimps with lower social skills (or however they put it) as a gauge for the ones with a condition most similar to autism, it leaves a huge gap in understanding of the autistic experience. And the fact that autism manifests in different ways such as higher social needs in some. I’m “high functioning” autistic, as is my daughter. We are insanely social creatures. I will talk to strangers and go dance with random people. She will give anyone a hug that lets her. But my understanding of some social cues is lacking, as is hers. We don’t have an aversion to being social tho and I think that’s the missing piece. We have different symptoms that make us autistic. I have a huge vocabulary and special interests I hyperfixate on and buy things for obsessively. I stim tf out with singing and tapping and leg shaking and popping my joints and I have had to mask away my hand flapping to where I’ve pretty much stopped now. But I would not present as a non social chimp. 😅
Please lead with adult and elder autism next time. Many of us are not parents but still we are looking for answers about ourselves and our childhood before all the awareness.
You don't treat autism, you support it. I'm just diagnosed in my late 50's, and now that I have housing, a pension and some support, I'm able to engage with the broader community in ways me and my family never thought possible. It's a divergent neurology not a disease.
I much prefer the term neurodiverse. I definitely agree with you that it is not a disease and just because our brains are different doesn’t make us disabled or deformed
Yes! Thanks guys for voicing this. It has only became a disease because of maltreatment by all the conformists
Relieved to see someone else bring this up.
treatment means support. you're thinking of cure. they're two different words.
@@jlllx you dont support cancer when you do cancer treatment. While there is a chance the words used in various context mean different things, but regularly in lay terms, treating autism does mean curing or mitigating it.
I'm so sorry to hear some things about autism.. I am autistic and my husband and son are. We also both have adhd. We're all extremely different. I believe if we spoke to another doctor who believes it's not an illness and who would not try to cure us but understand us.... That'd be great. I always listen to these podcasts but this time I felt very sorry.
There's lots of women who aren't diagnosed.. And behavior interventions are something that in the long time kills a person's personality and drives you crazy. That's not teaching how to have a proper behavior but it only teaches how to mask. I've become depressed because of this and almost lost myself. Please doctor @andrew huberman try and make another talk to hear another way to see autism. We all need it.
did you notice that they mentioned about vagus nerve exercises? they are very powerful, i wish i knew about them. the somatic exercises are even better, but we won't have any studies on both topics.
Anyone particular women who survive through brutally social driven environments like mainstream education without being diagnosed have much milder symptoms. With enough understanding and support, such “high functioning” women can be very productive and make significant social contributions especially in de-stigmatising current negative perceptions about autism. However it should be a personal choice for the autistic individuals especially those in less fortunate circumstances whether they would like medication or treatment. At this stage, despite a decade long of breakthroughs, there is no approved drugs for autism. Only drugs to manage the severity of their symptoms. Just like ADHD, there’s no cure but only medication which might not work as efficiently in the long run. And certainly not working for a significant portion of children , at least without causing too much side effects . Therefore the safest bet is to keep investing in research and promote inclusive education and employment opportunities. I wish you and your family the very best
Finally, I LOVE being on the spectrum. I consider it such a gift - a gift that has thousands of gifts within it - I am 74 and still unwrapping the splendid and varied multitude of gifts being on the spectrum has given me. Oh ye Spectrumites! Delight in the wonders of you! And don’t worry about meeting the societal norms of neurotypicals. Love yourself as you are. I do.
Andrew you never stutter and you have the ability to speak in an articulate but clear way, making your teaching entertaining but accessible to the masses. Can we have an episode to do with speech, communication and vocabulary (public speaking, protocols to improve an individual’s volubility and vocabulary etc).
She is not really answering the questions. Just giving the textbook answers. Disappointing.
I will be listening to this while i work starting in about a half hour. I just wanted to say that I was not sure you would ever touch this subject. As a father of 2 boys, both affected by this condition, I can't thank you enough. I can feel the pain and suppressed sadness in my fingertips dying to come out as i type this so i need to stop before it finds a way out.
What an incredible benefit it is to your children to have a parent who is passionate about helping your sons.❤
One's children might well be too young, or physically ill or otherwise unable to THEMSELVES to seek scientific information to help themselves...so it behooves us as loving parents to do so on their behalves.
I was previously too ill to perform such research on my own behalf...and it was with extreme delight when I finally recovered to the degree that I could seek out scientific data to maximize my nutrition and exercise protocols.
I immediately added research on behalf of my sons for they had suffered from our shared experiences and challenges we triumphed over...but they were each dangerously underweight.
I've researched extensively on their behalves...and recommended to them the specific "foundational protocols" recommended by Dr. Huberman as a baseline to improve SLEEP...plus additional protocols which are chosen on their behaves.
There have, consequently, been positive changes, more dramatic in the son who opts to adhere to said foundational (and additional) protocols.
Please know that what you are doing is a phenominal gift to give your sons.
Listening to these two incrediblebrains interact for 2.5 hours was an absolute delight. As a daughter of an autistic father who struggled to thrive in the neurotypical world, with a husband who is equally but differently on the spectrum, two brilliant sensitive neurodivergent children of my own and as a Grade One and music teacher of 88 6 and 7 year olds, I find these topics fascinating. Thank you for pushing for this badly needed research!
Thank you, Andrew and Dr. Parker! I have been waiting for you to cover this topic. Your consistent work and dedicated efforts to educate your audience is inspiring and much appreciated. 🙏
Not all of us care about improving social interaction, but finding peace in the chaos that goes inside our heads with the overwhelming world.
Do you know how it feels to have migraine and not tolerating the lights or loud noises? Imagine living like that everyday, I feel like it would be expected that some of us would rather prioritize finding calm and peace and looking like we're "on our own world" rather than performing socially.
It's magnesium deficiency
Mag. deficiency has literally same symptoms (noise sensitivity, irritability, troubles sleeping, relaxing) and is common in autism. I have autism and completely healed these "oversensitive" symptoms with everyday magnesium supplentation. It did not reverse autism, mind you. Only this part of symptoms
So I hate it when people portray these secondary symptoms as though they are primal when in fact they are caused by mag deficiency and are experienced by millions of people who are NOT on the spectrum but have this deficiency
That's what self advocacy is all about. Being able to appropriately communicate needs without falling into the trappings of being maladaptive and avoidant or worse, having aggressive or self-injurous behavior. Developing functional skills are a foundation for finding calm and peace.
I just want to be accepted for who I am instead of taking drugs etc
@@bedhead-studio I hear you girl
Agree. "...finding peace in the chaos that goes inside our heads" would automatically improve sociability. I am neurotypical and when my brain and body are tired/overwhelmed/inflamed (flu, fever, severe exhaustion etc) there is no energy left for social interaction. The brain conserves what little energy it has in those situation for basic survival functions. See my comment (top comment) above. It is my firm belief that when/if sensory processing and brain energy levels are improved - by addressing whatever is causing the deficiencies - the core 'autism' symptoms such as 'lack of social interaction' will also improve or go away.
Highly focused on young kids and how vasopressin 'can perhaps' be helpful, but nothing insightful to takeaway and apply in general for people with Autism.
As an autistic + ADHD brain, I'm highly annoyed with 'experts' chatting about what they never actually EXPERIENCED themselves.
The best experts I respect, and look up to, are actual autistic individuals who've honestly studied their own brain, abilities, and challenges, and take pride in educating and helping the community.
Plus, using the word "risk" (please note the host says 'probability') of having autism, doesnt exactly indicate full acceptance of the beauty of difference in our world.
Also, I do not feel like my neurodivergence should be 'treated'. However challenging autism may be, it is not a sickness. We're not sick. Different people have different abilities that you won't test in labs.
And leave primates and mice the f..k alone 🤬
Good for you. There are plenty of people who do wish their neurodivergence could be treated.
As a parent of a 23 year old autistic son I have been waiting for this, thank you both for the excellent discussion, and for the life's work. I love my exceptional son just as he is, but at age five he said to me "Mum, I'm broken, you need to recycle me for parts", and his suicidal ideation remains to this day. He has never had a peer -group friend, or a birthday party, I doubt he will ever hold down a job. While neurodiversity is of course a wonderful thing, it is my greatest hope to live long enough to see the cause(s) of autism understood and life-changing treatments become available. This is a case of "yes, and..." Yes we should celebrate neurodiversity in all its forms and we should keep searching for solutions for those suffering with Axis 1 disorders.
P.S. Thank you Dr. H for nailing the "Whether or not" sentence structure. Whether or not I can take the credit I feel heard ;)
My son is autistic too and I know what you're going through. We just have to hope things will get better day by day and they'll be able to function and be happy. I firmly believe that and it keeps me going ❤
Agreed. Things are getting better day by day, hopefully for you too. My son is flying home unaccompanied from university on Friday! Something I never would have predicted would be possible. That said, I think it is vital to recognize that if someone cannot hold down a job, or have a relationship, then their condition should be seen as something that we need to address (while embracing). On the plus side, after years of therapy he is a young man who is far more mindful and self-aware than he might have otherwise been, and as a parent I got to that place of truly just wanting contentment for him (as opposed to "success") long ago. Keep going @@gregzaks6649 !
I would really encourage finding some other kids his age with autism (ASD) to be friends with. As a speech therapist, I find that people with ASD can get each other on a different level then other neurotypical people and build meaningful friendships. Also, he wouldn`t feel as alone or different.
@@CheyenneBrady-lb4ht lots to touch on here, but I'll try to be brief. When my son was diagnosed at 3 (so 20 years ago) there were far fewer children nearby on the spectrum. I think the incidence was approx. 1 in 250 for males back then. Your comment is a stark reminder of how much more prevalent ASD is now.
We did attempt playdates with others on the spectrum. But this speaks to one of the challenges at the heart of this, certainly the main challenge I have had raising my son, (which I'll mention here in case it helps anyone), namely where to draw the line between respecting him for who he is and where to push him outside of his comfort zone and/or discipline him. This is a question all parents face of course, but it is magnified with someone on the spectrum. I think it would be cruel and inhumane to impose my ideas of "fun", say, on him, but I do want him to experience all life has to offer.
I smile when I remember our conversation after his one (and only) playdate with another 6 year old on the spectrum. Me: "That went well, shall we have X over again soon?" My son: "Now Mum, let's not get carried away." So polite, so not interested. Or peel back to when he was 2 and I was trying to encourage him to play with blocks; after months of ignoring me as I sat and built things and tried to get his interest he walked over, summarily stacked a vertiginous tower ten or so blocks high, and asked that we never play with blocks again!
I do agree wholeheartedly that social isolation is not for the best, it's just so nuanced.
LSD changed me forever, for the better, a rebirth
always before I could not speak to a girl, went to a dead gig dropped acid, went to work and pulled the next day
I suddenly knew what emotions were and how to play with them
instead of thinking all the time
LSD and the Dead have saved millions of us
Its all very complex, but its all known but its autistic to autistic , normal will never understand by being normal they cant
Please understand LSD affects us differently because we have something always inflamed, LSD reduces that inflammation and helps us attach biologically
but if you do not suffer that always inflamed Amygdala then you will never FEEL it reduce in size, understand
Do not think, both if you , all of you eat LSD clean and watch and learn the magic of biology
We don’t see as many auties trying to drug normies to make them more autistic. If you really want to know about autism and autistic men women girls and boys, you need to ask them and then listen to them. Or you could ask your dentist. Expect more for someone in the neuro field.
This episode should have been called, "Autism: swimming in the 3 ft deep ocean of correlation, no causal ground to stand on." The joke being that at any point in time they could have "stood up" and actually talked about the suspected and proven causes of autism. This episode is evidence that both Andrew Huberman and Dr. Parker lack the courage to have a real discourse on the cause(s) of autism. What does this mean for our society when two incredibly intelligent and highly respected people are unwilling to discuss the matter in a public way.
I loved your analogy
I was diagnosed with autism earlier this year at 33 years of age. That why I was thrilled to listen to this episode. The vasopressin research is extremly interesting. Though, for me, the episode was quite disappointing. You talk causes but limit your discussion to the two neuropeptides, what about the neurological differences on the brain level? Most autistic persons have co-morbidities like addiction, trauma, depression. No mention on that. But what really annoys me was the expression of your guest to „treat autism“. You can try to treat accompanying mental health issues, lower anxiety but autism is part of autistic persons. This expression makes clear why autistic people are traumatised in the neurotypical world. The way we perceive the world is considered wrong and to be treated. It’s so incredibly sad to hear that from a credited researcher. We are not wrong, we are different. I need therapy for PTSD because I learned I’m wrong and I have to think, behave and be like neurotypical people.
One thing that I have realized after watching many of the Huberman Lab Podcasts: if every professor had to be so good at his job that he was able to upload hours and hours of his lectures to the internet without getting absolutely destroyed by the general public pointing out all sorts of errors, the landscape in europe would be so different. It would be deeply beneficial to all students and it would filter out all that are unjustly in teaching positions. I do realize that this is seperate from Hubermans teachings in lectures and that they are not publically visible even though that would most likely provide great value to the public as well, but the value created here far overshadows most value created by the authority that I have encountered on my own academic journey. All of us gathering here just to listen to this person profess is itself a testament to the qualities he brings to so many lives around the globe.
Eloquently and succinctly stated. Thank you.
Huberman doesn't share what he teaches in his lectures, though, and not everything he says is correct. A good chunk of experts, including M.D.s say that he goes too far when using small studies to make broad claims and to create "protocols". He also has a lot of guests on, and much of what they say is too complicated or at least not understood well enough by the majority of his viewer base, to be challenged when wrong, and he doesn't challenge them, himself.
For instance, he has often bashed pornography use as something terrible, but didn't push back agains tthe urologist woman he had on, who said it's not commonly a problem, aside from the small percentage of people who are actually addicted.
He also, said a bunch of stuff about Cannabis, that doesn't seem to have much scientific backing, at all (the whole sativa vs indica, and type 1, 2, and 3 stuff, is barely substantiated by any worthwhile scientific literature, if at all, much less to the exact degree that he claimed, with sativa and indica's specific effects on individual brain regions...the two categories may not even exist according to many people).
Thank you for this great episode on autism. I've learned a lot of stuff about how my neurobiology could differ from the neurotypical. There is a large focus. However, the focus is primarily on autism as a disorder in children. These children often grow up, and though they stop being children, they don't stop being autistic. Would you consider doing an episode on autism in adults? How we believe autistic people experience their lives differently from their neurotypical counterparts, how autism can present in its myriad ways, what functions are impacted, and how can those functions be influenced by people, autistic and allistic both, to improve quality of life?
Agree. I also feel that the concept of early integration to change and modify behaviour and what will end up as not only behaviour but personality changes to the individual child are disrespectful to the child's natural functional capacity - there's nothing inherently wrong with an autistic child and therefore what will soon become an autistic adult - it is those of the neurotypical that consider changes and modification necessary to integrate into societal norms and standards of their way of life - and we are learning more each day this is of no benefit when 20% of the worlds population are neurodivergent. We have our own strengths and i dont consider stamping out our inherent experience a positive aspect of behavioural change. we should be integrating education and understanding/ empathy or autistic people - not segregation until proven compliant of structural expectation.
Please more dialogue on autism.
Thanks so much for this wonderful episode. I’m wondering if you could continue this conversation and talk about the Double Empathy Problem, Monotropism theory of autism, why does autism and ADHD often co-occur, why females are often late diagnosed and the signs and symptoms in childhood were missed or labeled as something else (OCD, borderline personality, bipolar). Love your work and this conversation!
As far as I¨m aware, in general females are more adept at social skills. This is due to their in general having scoring slightly higher on agreeableness and conscientiousness. Add in that young males are higher in aggressiveness, and are more likely to act out physically.
This makes it harder to discover in young girls, and easier to discover in young boys.
And of course, due to it being more males who are diagnosed, there's been more research done on them.
Luckily this has changed in recent years.
There are a lot of autistic researchers researching autism, it would be great to have one of them as a guest.
I would love this too.
Late diagnosed ADHD female, 45 and diagnosed this year. Double empathy and Monotropism are two areas that are really interesting.
Aside from the incredible content, I have to remark that Dr Huberman has got to be one of the clearest communicators I have observed in a while. It’s very refreshing and makes for a much better listening experience. Needless to say, I really appreciate this content and just subscribed…..thanks Dr H; great stuff.
Dr. Huberman, you r just wonderful!!! Neural-atypical people need people like you!
is autism in itself a disorder or the comorbidities are the things that cause struggles - disabilities as we do not have an is for autism vs it could be caused by. If majority of researchers were neurodiverse, how would it be looked at?
I work at a school for the blind as a physical therapist, and after listening to this, I'm buzzing wanting to dig into the relationship between optic nerve hypoplasia/septo optic dysplasia and autism. It is well known in the world of vision impairment that ONH and/or SOD and autism go hand in hand, and nearly all of my patients with ONH/SOD have diagnoses of autism. Knowing that these vision-related diagnoses are tied to midline structures of the brain, it is also common to see the hypothalamus and pituitary gland affected or underdeveloped in these children with ONH/SOD. This leads me to vasopressin. This has to be a direct link, and I'll be following this research surrounding vasopressin closely. Thanks for sharing!!!
So interesting I want to know more about this thank you for sharing
Powerful sharing. Thank you
Autistic person here. Like mikesanchez already wrote we were expecting more of a approach on how to live more successfully as an autistic person. Like strategies for dealing with the daily overwhelm etc...
I do hope you're planning on something like that too.
That being said this was really fascinating. First hour and 50 minutes maybe not. I kept wondering what was the point of all this. But then. Fascinating.
1) I would love to learn more about the research done on those 2k frozen samples. That for me was so valuable. For shutting up the vaccine&autism group.
2. When on that topic it really did not occur to me that demage that publication did to all nd-s was not just antivax misinformation and paranoia. It actually caused scientists to be reluctant in their research of autism. It's criminal really.
3. I must admit i did not really feel comfortable with dr Parker. She did gave mad scientist wibe to me 😅
4. But her research is very important in my opinion. Not because of finding the cure. We autistic do not really think we need the cure. And autism being part of our identity what would be the point of curing us from our self. But we would appreciate a medication that would help with daily struggles. Ritalin for autistic. Something that would help me not having anxiety and insomnia after every outing and uncontrolled socialising. Would love that.
5. Why is everyone so focused on children only? I do understand that because of neuroplasticity the individual benefits would be more prominent in that age group. But wouldn't it be easier to research on willing adult participants that are more aware of their symptoms. Not to mention all the moral dilemmas of testing things on children.
Also do you know that adults with adhd are having problems with getting medication because all the research is done on kids and once you turn 18 magic pixy comes and takes away your adhd so you do not need meds 😏
6. Never the less I'm very excited reading the results of next study.
7. Episode on vagus nerve and why is it so fascinating?
8. I also need to know more about suitability of animal models for reasarch of different areas. You did mention it before in episode on fasting. Very interesting.
Now I really wrote too much and English is not my first language so i probably did many mistakes in my excitement.
We (autistic out there) do hope you 'll do the episode on tools to live with autism too.
Thanks
This is not a good conversation about autism. This is actually quite offensive. This uses language that people in the autistic community would not use for themselves like "high-functioning". Rainman didn't even have autism. There are a ton of researchers and psychiatrists that are also autistic, who specifically got into the field so people wouldn't talk about them like this. It would have been a much more helpful and inclusive video if instead of two neurotypicals medical professionals that admit that they don't really know anything about autism, you had chosen to speak to a professional that is autistic. This conversation doesn't even mention Monotropism which is a theory of autism developed by autistic people (Dinah Murray and Wenn Lawson) which is gaining a lot of traction amongst the autistic community. I appreciate this channel and there are some interesting bits of information in this conversation but wow, Huberman, do better.
referring to a person as neurotypical means you don't even know what you're talking about.
enlighten@@jlllx
I don’t think I was ever low on oxytocin or vasopressin. I’m level 1 Autistic and never had an issue socializing. My first manager at a department store called me her social butterfly because I was always off chatting with employees in different departments. My social issues were more about saying the wrong thing and upsetting people. I’m too blunt and honest.
You might not be aware, but being blunt is an issue in socializing. You don't understand how something can be upsetting to others, thus coming across as rude and blunt.
I've been told that I have no filter. Whatever bubbles to the top of my mind comes spilling out. My parents told me to always be honest so I took it very literally. I felt I was lying if I didn't tell someone exactly what I thought of them. I'm sure you can imagine how that went over....like a lead balloon. 😂 But to be fair I expected the same from others and never took offense. It's pretty hard to hurt my feelings. I'm either tough or just stupid. 😊
Alot of adult's are just finding out they have Autism deep into adulthood like myself who found out at 42 😮
I’m 59 and just diagnosed
What about raising autism awareness and getting rid of ableism, plus respecting sensory needs to help autistic people being able to interact socially without so much stress. This might help us generate more oxytocin...
Wow Andrew, you have firmly become my daily companion and unbelievable mentor! Since following your podcast I have been able to understand my adult adhd/asd diagnosis much better and navigate that, not only with your videos specifically on those subjects, but the accompanying catalogue of amazingly informative and helpful podcasts you have posted. I cannot thank you enough for what you do!!!!! I don't ever comment but felt really compelled to do so and tell you how life changing your podcasts have been for me and my life of new 'protocols'. If you would ever consider doing a podcast on sensory issues around adhd/asd that would be really cool! This is the aspect that actually led me to discover what was happening to me, around light sensitivity, smell, touch and sound. I would love to understand this more one day! Thank you so much Andrew!
Thanks dr. Huberman for devoting an episode for this particular condition. On a similar vein, I believe many would benefit from an episode on learning disabilities.
This lady takes 10 minutes to say “I have no idea“
I am a mother of a nonverbal 5 Yr old girl with Autism. Reading the comments gives me hope. ❤
don't worry, we have to analyze first, data processing on such a deep level takes time ^^ watching tv with subtitles worked wonders for me. we loooove to learn, our sensory issues are just overwhelming ^^ I'm 31 y/o and I struggle daily, but still a genius tho lol.
Starting the episode now but can’t wait! My 3 year old nephew is autistic and has been going to therapy for years. I absolutely adore him and all he teaches me with patience and stimulation. ❤
3 years old
therapy for years
lol
@@oso_estudioso yes. He started at 2 and my sister in law noticed his differences even younger and tried seeking professional help when he was only a year… but closer to two. He had ABA, occupational therapy and speech therapy.
he spoke to the therapist about his life story "i was born and then i pooped and drank milk, now my crazy aunty has sent me here to talk to you doc"@@oso_estudioso
make sure its the right therapy. you could potentially be doing more harm than good.
We definitely need a second chapter on Autism for those who have a loved one dealing with this situation. It would be wonderful to have more resources or tools in order to both take care of them and cater their needs in terms of empowering them to take on more life challenges.
Thank you Dr. Andrew Huberman for providing all this information to the general public in order to create an informed society.
My grandson was born fine. He was talking as baby's do. Mama, Dada. He was then vaccinated. His baby shots. He came home with a slight fever. A couple days later he's feeling good but now he stop talking, He stopped sleeping. He was doing odd hand motions constantly. Now he is four and diagnosed with autism.
My son was born in 1993. The same thing happened with us. They are too quick to rule out vaccination.
My son was born in 1993. The same thing happened with us. They are too quick to rule out vaccination.
Yes, that happens more frequently than what is being acknowledged. But I do think the tide is turning. Just too slowly!
Thank you! Medical establishment is too quick to dismiss these cases. They admit they don’t want too look into it. Follow Gates Foundation money.
I can relate it happened to us😢
I say us because it is tragic for child, parents and siblings. It is hard on whole family. God help us! They will never believe or validate us.😢😢😢
I wanted to thank you and Dr Parker for this episode and to let you know how it has directly helped my son who is 18 and autistic.
I had been expressing concern for years to doctors about how frequently he has to urinate which is really disruptive at night. When I heard the discussion around vasopressin deficiency I thought my son should be tested.
We have just heard that initial blood and urine tests + input/output measurements over 24 hours point to a suspected deficiency. He’s been referred now to a hospital to go through a final monitored water deprivation test.
His symptoms concerned us for years but were put down to OCD type behaviors. Finally we are getting to the root of it thanks to your podcast - and who knows where this may take us if he eventually receives treatment. I will let you know.
*Dr Andrew Huberman.*
What a wonderful, sophisticated, complex, important, beautiful, refined, intellectual topic!
I have been thinking about starting a podcast for a several years, altough I am not sure if I had the courage for it.
You really deserve to be one of the very best, most important and most detailed podcast not only in the science category, but also in audio in general.
It's beyond a pleasure to write here again!
I have a child, he’s 3, is on the spectrum but in the UK it’s extremely hard to get an actual diagnosis, so I take matters in to my own hands and do the research myself, I was just researching vasopressin and stumbled onto the fact that I can get this prescribed for my child on the NHS ‘if’ he has a problem wetting the bed, he’s doesn’t, he’s not potty trained yet (another problem for austic kids) but I can also get it if he’s constipated. My son usually is constipated, this can weaken the pelvic floor and thus lead to bedding wetting. All very common things for austic kids and all linked to low levels of vasopressin. This podcast is literally the best thing I could have seen to help child, thank you.
Every time I heard Dr Huberman say "with autism" I think of somebody at a restaurant.
"Excuse me waiter, I ordered my child without autism, but this child is absolutely smothered in it."
I am autistic. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be me. You cannot separate me and the tism , because I AM the tism. Just saying. 😅
Good point...
fr u would think terminology would be established at the start. it makes it sound like a disease or illness
@@matteanolan8964 They refer to it as a disease right at the end too. I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of autism in this episode
Great question posed by the professor regarding whether it's 'spectra' or 'spectrums.' Both terms are actually correct, but they're used in slightly different contexts. 'Spectra' is often preferred in more formal or scientific discussions, reflecting its Latin origin as the plural of 'spectrum.' On the other hand, 'spectrums' is also accepted, particularly in less formal contexts or in everyday English. It really comes down to the preference of the speaker or the specific requirements of the publication format. It's fascinating to see such nuances in language, especially in the context of discussing the diverse range of experiences within autism spectrum disorders... ❤
From Latin spectrum, plural spectra. But wikipedia includes spectrums.
Thank you for the wonderful podcast. Once again!
Yep, similar to the word octopus: if you treat as an english word or a greek word the plural is widly different (octopuses/octopoda I think)
@@Mathilde_Moksha_333Or octopodes.
was not expecting to have to scroll this far to find this in an episode about autism 😜
As a neurotypical human who works with autistic kids, I was hoping to gain something more of value from this episode. Unfortunately I was left disappointed, like I am with so many clinicians I work with. Parents, educators, other caregivers need guidance on ways to support for these individuals. We don’t get them. Similar to the guest, our questions are rarely ever directly answered…
Thank you for continuing to expose the need for research in Autism. I am a 2nd grade teacher and have taken many continuing ed. classes (at my own expense) to support students in my classes who may or may not be "identified" as Autistic. I feel like teachers are at the "front lines" with school aged children and their specific needs and Autistic students can demand tremendous support! Although our school does its best to support the needs of Autistic students, there are so many factors to consider...and many questions and concerns that need addressed. Teachers have the privilege of seeing students in an environment with their age related peers and that lens can give so much insight on assets and deficits of children with Autism. From my experiences in the classroom and working with parents and support staff, these children can and do benefit from intense and early interventions. But, misconceptions, stigma, and lack of knowledge, and lack of resources are HUGE barriers. You mentioned during the podcast that you were interested in supporting research for Autism.... please, please continue to shine your light of influence in this area. The faster we can help these children become their best selves, the better. Thank you!
Why do you talk about teaching autistic kids like it’s a war zone “front lines” really? And what do you mean by “intense and early interventions”?
The entire education system is trash. The entire institution needs to be changed. Changed for neurotypical kids as well as spectrum kids.
Ive been giving my autistic 4 year old child lions mane for about 4 months now, putting about .5-1g powder in his pancake batter each morning, im not sure if the increase in communication is simply from him growing, or the therapies, but i have been seeing a good amount of improvement in his behavior.
this hits so close to home I can only listen a few minutes at a time before my autonomic arousal becomes too intense for me. plus I need someone to share what I learned so I can process it. Other Highfunctioners know what I mean, amiright?
There is a large community of parents out there who are utilizing treatments/dietary changes (many that would not surprise you, given your scope of subjects here) to help their children and have been doing so for many years. Why don’t you include them in your conversations? Lisa Ackerman of TACA would be a good one to start with and her organization is wonderful. Best of luck to you. This a subject that, sadly, affects so many.
Just gave my autistic 6 year old MDMA for the first time. Thanks Huberman!
Dr. Huberman,
I have been following along and tuning in to every bit of content you’ve put out over the past 14 months. I was at a program called Warriors Heart in Bandera, TX for veterans with pts, tbi, and addiction when I began closely following your material while I walked backwards 4 miles every morning to rehab my knee. Your content immediately spoke to something buried deep inside me.
Thanks to you, I have recently begun my journey. I have applied to schools, and intend to earn a bs in biology. I don’t know where this road leads, but if I never try… I’ll never know.
Thank you.
We are delighted to see this subject discussed and proud to be sponsoring some of Dr. Karen Parker's research in this area. More understanding on causes and treatments for both core and comorbid symptoms in autism is sorely needed. Thank you both!
As a parent I am so happy to see this on Huberman podcast. Thank you The BRAIN Foundation for continuing to push for more meaningful research.
Derrick Lonsdales work is good
Amazing!
Thank you, the BRAIN Foundation and Dr Huberman for discussing this very important topic.
For those interested in translational research in autism, our - The BRAIN Foundation - youtube channel features presentations by Dr. Karen Parker (and many others!) on their work over the past several years.
28:11 my son has Dravet syndrome due to scn1a mutation and had to receive a secondary diagnosis of autism to receive services for his needs at school. This is a very interesting topic. Thank you for bringing this question up. I didn't realize there were other syndromes that display autistic traits. His neuro maintains that the syndrome is what he has and the traits are similar to those with autism.
This episode was very informative. I enjoyed learning more about oxytocin. I agree that it could have more information about autism in adults and female teens/adults, but I understand there are too many things to cover in one round. Perhaps we can have more episodes on this subject. Thank you 😊
Ps: spectrum is a neutral noun in latin, so the plural is with "a" = spectra.
Whatever you think about Andrew, he's 💯% correct about the Aeropress
I was a barista for over a decade, not some guy who pushes a button at Starbucks, a real barista at specialty shops doing latté art and all that
I never use any other method to brew coffee, the Aeropress is too good not to use, the cleanup is so easy and satisfying, shooting that puck into the trash is euphoric
The quick steep, then the pressure of the piston makes the cup kinda taste like a really good pour over with the rich, oiliness of an espresso
It's perfect really
I am a neurotypical with a very close family member who has Asperger's. Stop labeling those people as deficient human beings. Imagine we meet an alien from a different galaxy who is kind, intelligent, and eager to learn and connect with other human beings. Would you call that person deficient? No. If you are curious and smart enough, you will open your arms to him to try to understand the way he communicates with you and learn from him.
She failed to provide an appropriate answer to all questions asked in the first 30 minutes. She answered those questions very generally without providing details. I was interested in discussions regarding cause of autism, but this conversation was not helpful to me.
that's because nobody knows what really cases it. it's really a trauma response, but we're not ready to talk about that.
There are studies that show certain environmental factors, such as mother's lack of vitamin D or too much of certain vitamins during pregnancy, that can contribute to increasing the chances of autism, but she failed to mention any.
It's disappointing that you continue to pedal outdated and harmful stereotypes and language in this podcast. Autism is a neurotype, it's not a pathology, just like neurotypicality is a neurotype. Most people's conceptions of autism include those with co-occurring disabilities such as learning disabilities or epilepsy. Talk of "risk" and "symptoms" pathologise what is merely a divergence from a neurotypical norm. You would benefit from reading Dr Robert Chapman's thesis on this.
THANK YOU!
I found this episode grossly offensive. Why the hell are they not talking to actual autistic researchers. This had so many outdated and proven abusive theories littered through it. The damage he just did. I feel sick to my stomach.
Clearly you've never worked with low-functioning autism before. It is very definitely a disability. Some people get off light, that is what is called high-functioning autism. It is incredibly damaging to those with the more acute symptoms to tell them "it's all in their head" instead of getting them the help they need for their deficiencies.
@@amyb.6368 I never claimed that autistic people with higher support needs do not exist or that they don't deserve help. I also never said it wasn't a disability. But by that I mean more in line with the social model of disability thinking - society isn't set up for autistic ways of thinking of communicating hence we are disabled by it.
@@amyb.6368 Functioning labels are incredibly damaging to autistic people across the spectrum. Also, you (like many people) have misunderstood what it means to say autism is a natural, non-pathological neurotype. That does not mean it isn't a disability (it certainly can be - please look up the social model of disability). It does not mean there aren't challenges. It definitely does not mean that autistic people don't need support in various ways, and CERTAINLY does not mean that it's "all in their head". It's not a matter of some people "getting off light" - in fact, high-masking (what you refer to as high-functioning) autistic people are at much higher risk of suicidality, major depression, and anxiety (largely due to how debilitating it is living in a world that erases our experiences and needs and expects us to just "push through"). We still have support needs, sometimes quite large ones even when we appear "high-functioning" to the outside world, and no one is advocating for eliminating those - if anything, virtually all neurodivergent activists would like support to be more accessible to more people. To say it isn't a disease just means we think that efforts (and funds) should be going toward meeting autistic people's *actual needs* (whatever they may be), not trying to convert them into neurotypical people (which is impossible, regardless of what Dr. Parker claims) or prevent them from being born (i.e., eugenics).
Vagus nerve stimulation is a core principle of behavior therapy. I have used it for 13 years on my kids and myself, without knowing that it was vagus nerve stimulation. We start trying everything possible in order to alleviate discomfort for our autistic kids, sometimes we stumble across something that works, but never understand why. TALK TO AUTISTIC PEOPLE
I just read Stephen Porges' "A Polyvagal World' last week and was surprised there didn't seem to be any mention of the vagal nerve in regards to Autism in the podcast - though I didn't listen to the end.
Polyvagal theory is critical in understanding Autism.
It is very stressful to deal with everything related to autism. You tried to help your kids with this but can be difficult with others health issues, lack of functioning, medication side effects. Sometimes you feel so sad about all of that that it is very hard not cry.
Please note that many autistic individuals have a pharmacogenetic profile that can result in ultra-rapid or ultra-slow metabolism of certan substances. As an ultra rapid metabolzier, it's not necessarily safe for us to take the same doses as someone else. Please do a pharmacogenetic lab for yourself before experimenting with drugs, or using psychiatric meds (I can't metabolize opiates, SSRIs, MDMA, or cannabis. it just goes right through me and produces extra liver toxins leading to possible death if i didn't know better)