Upgrading to Caster Control Arms | MK7 DIY
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- We install Super Pro Caster Control arms on our MK7 Alltrack. This video is specific to the Alltrack but would be similar or the same on MQB models. Adding caster to your car pushes the wheel forward in the wheel well. This improves stability and steering feel while driving.
Cars this video would be similar or the same as
Audi Audi A3 8V 2014-PRESENT
Audi Audi S3 8V 2015-Current
Audi RS3 2017-Current
Volkswagen MK7 GTI 2015-2017
Volkswagen MK7 Golf 2015-2019
Volkswagen MK7 Golf Alltrack 2017-2019
Volkswagen MK7 Golf R 2015-2017
Volkswagen MK7 Golf Wagon 2015-2019
Volkswagen MK7.5 Facelift GTI 2018-2019
Volkswagen MK7.5 Facelift Golf-R 2018-2019
Links Talked about in this video
MQB Control Arm Lower Complete Alloy Assembly with DuroBall
www.shopdap.co...
Front Upper Strut Top Camber Mounts
www.shopdap.co...
Deadset Rigid Subframe Kit for MK7 and 8V A3
www.shopdap.co...
Aluminum Subframe
www.shopdap.co...
Subframe Install Kit for MK7
www.shopdap.co...
Sway bars
www.shopdap.co...
How to Install MK7 Camber Mounts (SuperPro)
• How to Install MK7 Cam...
How to Jack up a MK7 GTI on Jack Stands
• How to Jack up a MK7 G...
How to Install a Transmission Mount | MK7.5 GTI
• How to Install a Trans...
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Suite 408
Cornelius NC 28031
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No need to lower subframe, just un-bolt the dog bone and use a pry bar to push the trans forward while you take that 18 out, works every time 🤙🏾
i have bfi stage 2 mounts on my dsg mk7 gti, i un did the dog bone arm from the trans and i disconnected the trans bracket from the chassis mount on the trans side 3x 18mm bolts, used a jack to lift the trans out of the way of the drivers LCA bolt.. worked perfectly.
This convinced me I like my stock set-up.
😂😂 why?
Mine is the vibrations the aftermarket ones are giving you and losing that comfortability
Stock setup is designed for daily driving.
@@em1ownerify Likely because of the amount of work required for install
Elimentus it’s not that hard.
@@em1ownerify Never said it was, I was just commenting on why someone might choose to not do this job. Usually it comes down to price, amount of work to install, or perceived performance increase.
Update: if you’re doing this upgrade, do it precisely the way Paul shows here. It makes the install angles of the new LCAs and their stiffer bushings just perfect. 👌
I tried it an “alternate way” and it was the biggest PITA. You end up fighting physics in all the wrong ways. I invented new swear words.
Don’t be afraid of lowering the subframe the way he shows here.
I also tried the “pry bar against the transmission to move it forward” (with the torque mount bolts removed) in order to remove the left front LCA bolt:
No dice. $4500 trans. Not worth the risk when dealing with a fragile aluminum case.
DAP’s method here for the win. 🏆 👏 🍻
Thank you guys again for a solid walk through.
I did just the super pro bushes on my stock arms. Pressing the bushings in made for an even more fun Install 🤣
One of the hardest jobs I've ever done. I did have to lower the subframe since I was dsg. It was worth it. Epic turning response and feedback now. Amazing loss of wheel hop way better then a dog bone insert. One of the best upgrades I've even done for suspension
Been running these about a year now. Installed together with Superpro heavy duty front and rear sway bars and endlinks. Handling is drastically improved. Very happy with the car.
Video really helped with my mk7 GTD - Both sides replaced without a ramp in 2 hours!
I highly recommend doing the dead set with this modification. This modification significantly changes alignment, it is not recommended, you definitely need to have the alignment done soon. It causes a large degree of toe out, which is fine for handling but you will wear down you tires like you would not believe. Ask me how I know, I meant to get an alignment right away but ended up driving another 1500 miles and wore the fronts down by 2-3 mm's and ended up having to replace tires much sooner than I expected.
that was dumb of you
Working in VW, we just take the lower engine mount bolts out and pry the engine forward to loosen the bolt which u lowered the subframe for, makes it alot easier also no need to replace the subframe bolts like they say , also wont put alignment out ,
Good note.
Nice glad you said this just asked the same question sorry
I also work in a VAG shop (collision repair tech) and thats how we do it aswell
does it work also for AWD or do you need to loosen propshaft ?
As How-To videos go, this and others from DAP deserve a standing ovation. There was a LOT to cover in this install for safety and technique.
Paul & the gang did a great job covering all aspects, including the post-repair test drive review.
Couple of things to share for folks considering an LCA upgrade on their Mk7:
1) The SuperPro arms shown here are awesome, pricey, works of art. They add 1* positive caster, which doesn't push. the tires too close to the front fenders like their Whiteline counterparts. Great upgrade all around for street and track work.
HOWEVER...be advised: several folks have complained about clunks and noises that arise after 10-12k miles of driving with these LCAs. This is from the DuroBall design of the rear joint/bushing on the SuperPro arms. Research this and form your own conclusion.
3) Alternatives: Whiteline offers two versions of an aluminum LCA for the Mk7 platform that utilize a conventional, solid polyurethane rear bushings instead of the DuroBall.
Info: whitelineperformance.com/collections/control-arm/2016-volkswagen-golf-base-esi2143514
One increases caster +2.0*, which is a lot. The other, called their Max-C kit, increases it by 2.5*. #racecar
For those of us running larger, meatier tires, and who are lowered by over 20mm from stock, this will pull the front tires too close to the fender liners and induce rubbing.
So you have a "pick your poison" deal here.
If anyone here has the SuperPro arms, let us know how many miles you have on them, and if/when they started making noise.
4) Last option: folks have upgraded the bushings in their stock LCAs and still report 80-90% of the improvements over stock by ridding the car of the stock voided rubber design, which produces unwanted deflection under cornering and directional changes of the car. You can swap your own bushings, or save the pain and just buy new stamped steel LCAs with the bushings installed. The latter is cheaper and faster if you're paying an installer.
Info here: whitelineperformance.com/collections/control-arm/products/wa302l-control-arm-lower-arm
whitelineperformance.com/collections/control-arm/products/wa302r-control-arm-lower-arm
All of this is to educate and help other Mk7 enthusiasts, not detract anything from DAP. They are an awesome group, and we are lucky to have their support in this community!
I appreciate this info very much as I am starting to plan my goals with my 1.8t TSI for track use!
Thank you very much for your input, it helped me decide to just go with upgraded bushings for now since it'll be my daily car.
Smart choice, Otoniel! You won’t be disappointed. ✌️ 🇩🇪 🍻
I will some-day do the SuperPro conversion w/ the S3 Aluminum sub-frame. Probably same time that I go full Poly-Bushings & Front Sway Bar. If I'm gonna have to get an alignment anyway, might as well go all in.
When you re-tighten that front wishbone bush bolt, you ideally want the suspension to be compressed so the wishbone angle is as it would be when the car is on the ground. The wishbone will be in its rest position when you tighten up. This helps to reduce premature wear of the wishbone bush.
While that would make sense with OE bushings, these are poly and do not operate the same way.
Crazy amount of labor for such an insignificant part. Great video
The rear bushing on the front control arm is a pretty significant upgrade.
Lack of caster is one of my biggest issues with how my MK7 feels.
To get those forward facing bolts on the front of the control arm the
“Non subframe removal way”:
Loosen the two dog bone bolts from the bottom of the engine and pry the bottom of the engine forward and boom, those forward facing control arm bolts are out
Yeah was just thinking that be way easier lol
That's what I was thinking too.
does it work for AWD ? or you need to lossen propshaft
I’ll be switching my current aftermarket upgraded control arms for the SuperPro for this season!!!!
Were you not happy with the whiteline control arms?
i just did this.. today haha.... great video btw. i found it easier to just unbolt the mount rather than mess with the subframe. This method applies to a b7 passat. if your dropping the subframe make it worth your while and add a nice h&r bar and some poly bushings.
I ordered a set of what was advertised as Racingline Part# VWR45G701 for my 2019 Jetta GLi, but they turned out to be exactly these Super Pro arms, lol. I'll be installing them soon.
You can also use ALU sub-frame from VW Arteon. It has same dimensions.
I just did this on jack stands, I didn’t drop the subframe and I wasn’t able to shift the transmission forward enough to get clearance on the bolt by removing the dogbone mount. However, I was doing my transmission mount at the same time and I was able to jack the transmission up to get the clearance. Pretty easy if you do it at the same time.
does it work for AWD without loosen propshaft?
Thanks for still making these videos!
I was able to access the front control arm bolt by unbolting the dogbone and rotating the transmission about 4”, try that before removing the entire subframe.
good to see some straya love !!
Have these installed with kw ddc suspension and they don’t improve steering feel at all, they do however improve exit out of fast corners and launches. Steering is still as dead as a hedgehog on the M25
Can someone clarify @14:40 how are you supposed to tighten that bolt with the suspension loaded/on the ground?
Torque spec 130nm + 90degree as in minute 17:18 is wrong. My bolt break in two following this
Couldn’t you get clearance by shifting the transmission forward after the dogbone mount was out?
Ahmad Ali that’s what he had to do but he didn’t lol
I thought there is an alignment tool from VW for the subframe, in case you remove the bold, you screw in a special 'eccentric' bold...to move it back to the original position later.
Why do we want more caster? My understanding is that more caster will slow steering response and increase high speed stability? The closer the caster is to zero, the sharper the turn in response and more unstable at speed. My mk7 already has a great balance for street and highway use, but maybe this helps on a track if you're going over 100mph? I've never done that (honest!), so I don't know if it needs more stability at speed...
You want more positive caster for two primary reasons. First, the car wants to track straighter more often with less correction required. Secondly, and this is the more common reason, is to allow for increased dynamic camber gain. So you can run far less static camber, but still maintain maximum camber in the turns which is when you want it. So this helps with tire life and simply maintaining a larger contact patch for more of the time.
Yoni is correct and I as someone that has done this mod, steering response, feel, and front end grip is significantly improved. One of the best modifications I have done. I also have camber plates and run about -2.5 static camber and it does not cause excessive tire wear at all. In fact it helps a lot because if you drive hard or track at all, without these mods you will wear the heck out of the outside, so this actually greatly improves handling and helps with tire wear.
You can try to put the rear bolt in with the arm rotated to the rear and then push it to the front.
Wouldn't shifting the subframe back cancel out the 1 degree of caster these control arms are supposed to help with?
Mk7 GLI also correct? You didn't list mah bebe but I am pretty sure it is the same as a GTI in that aspect. Still making my list of future upgrades I want for my 35th Anniversary GLI with your help. I will call in when I am closer to getting ready to start ordering parts and scheduling with the DAP Repair guys.
When you talk about not striping the threads during the reassembly, who found that out the hard way? Or do they teach you that kind of thing in tech school?
I remember reading that someone with a deadset kit and these arms did not work together. there was some contact as the deadset kit didn't allow the subframe to move back enough to allow enough clearance for the control arms. any one else run into this issue?
Anyone know if you need to lower subframe with the manual? I'll find out shortly when I change the oil but was just hoping to know
"there you have it, weight savings! **race car**" lmfao!!!!!!
By the weight measurement difference, the weight savings from Stock to SuperPro is 2.34%. It is claimed 38% on the website - quite the discrepancy.
Word of the day caviot ....lol. you're awesome buddy. If you don't have a lift and you're doing this on the ground "sucks to be you" lmfao.
I thought these were supposed to be 44% lighter than stock but they are virtually the same weight?
Hello, can you make a video on how to change the steering wheel (the one with the silver "ring") buttons on a MK7?
Easy when arm is horizontal. A bitch to get the rear bolt to go through on my lifted Alltrack when the strut pushes down alot more and the arm is in an angle.
would the trailing arms be the equivalent in the rear to the front control arms? Would steering feel become even better with rear trailing arms too?
Does this hurt drivability a lot? I have a 2018 Golf R. I’ve been thinking of getting these, but I don’t want it too be too stiff and have too much vibrations as it’s my daily lol.
I’ve been think of getting the APR pendulum mount too. I already have the apr dogbone and that barely added any vibrations. Is the pendulum mount worth the upgrade? Does it increase vibrations a lot?
Where did you get those center caps for the wheels from? They look mint
What about alignment specs what is used after?
These do not cause noise in the suspension because they are more harder?
The 3 nuts for ball joint is 70 Nm +180 degrees, why do you say 100 Nm in another video of springs MK7 gti?
Ugg. Hate poly. Takes a set, high NVH, early failure.. Looks like unless the stock parts are worn out, not worth it for 1 degree of caster. What about using the TT arms (or RS3?) instead, where you also have stiffer bushings and some camber adjustment?
are you guys going to do seat upgrade video later?
Why the hell didn’t you just undo the 2 18 or 16mm bolts for the lower transmission mount and use your block of wood to keep the engine and gearbox forward enough to get the bolt out? A lot of extra work there for what would be a 20 minute task. There are also locating pins you can use to re fit the subframe back in its original position.
the 130nm is not the correct the torque spec for the rear dog bone mount bolt. idk what is, but i used my NEW torque wrench and it snapped the bolt in half
Why do these Triangle Arms look like the MK4 Setup ?
Is it at all possible to remove that bolt like the old mk4? Undo the dogbone mount and use the spare tire jack between subframe and trans to rotate the engine slightly to clear?
Not being trying be a smart ass but what's the point of adding a caster control arm. They mentioned what it does but why would you want that?
Where is a good jack point if doing this on the ground??
I usually always jack it in the wishbone/subframe :(
Newtons law of meters?
Cool video
Is this car DSG? Is the manual gearbox still an issue with bolt clearance?
Can. I ask who manufactures the factory control arms? Is it TRW or another brand?
Pretty wheels
Need to use subframe locating set. Why wouldn't you.?
Would there be rubbing with a wider tire? 245 rather than the stock 235s?
unbolt pendulum mount swing engine and trans forward pull out bolt
He did that, still not enough room
not related to the video but for the rear, do people generally install the rear control arm (rear upper) + rear trailing arm kit at the same time?
Any long term feedback about bushing life with the Superpro LCA’s?
I changed all bushings on my S3 to superpro 15 years ago… still going strong. Dogbone one had to be re-lubed a few times
Will the negative camber cause inside edge tire wear? What is the resulting camber?
What suspension mods will help with increasing traction for a 7R? Excluding lowering coil springs/ Coil overs and Better tires. Mainly looking to improve launching and reducing wheel spin on a stage 2 car. Thanks
A set of dogbone/pendulum mounts will help drastically with wheel hop and launches and will provide crisper shifts and better throttle response
Do theses aloy 0018k arms actually work with a deadset kit without rubbing at the front?
How much forward will the wheel sit in the arch with an extra 1 degree of caster?
so I've had new tyres on all 4 corners (mk7R) and alignment done twice and the car drives straight and doesn't pull but corner hard to the right the back ends feels like it wants to drift out. I've also noticed the gaps from my rear bumper to my tyre is different. unsure what to do now as when they did the alignment they said they couldn't do the caster. any ideas would be welcome thanks
Have you done a muffler delete on it? Thanks
wouldn't those arms rust ?
Is the process the same on a mk7.5 golf r?
Can i still run 19x8.5s with the additional caster?
6.55lbs stock vs. 6.40lbs aftermarket grand total of .15lbs woohoo. How many ppl are going to "track" their Alltrack? I'd like to know what the perceived advantages/disadvantages are. I'm guessing minimal at best. Probably the poly bushings are the biggest difference which equates to more road noise and less compliant ride, I don't want that in my daily driver but to each his own.
I think a better upgrade (for the money) would be aftermarket F&R sway bars, dollar wise it's a bit cheaper for the sway bars. BTW I swapped out my stock spring/shocks to stock Golf R springs/shocks and that made a world of difference and happy with just that for a daily driver. I couldn't stand the rubbery ride of the stock Alltrack suspension.
Increased caster is why you buy these. The weight is minimal and the bushings are an added benefit
you could have removed the dogbone mount and used a prybar..
I have a 2010 Volkswagen tiguan, do you have a recommendation for removing the drivers side control arm because of the bolt in the front bushing is block by the transmission pan?
Yes, they do if you watch the video
What are the alignment settings?
Your website is down my guys
I would spray some white/yellow paint where the subframe meets the body for better marking the position.
I also so more toe in as it went
2019 GTI , once its off warranty...I will be buying a lot of parts from you so I can upgrade, inside and outside!
I have a question? How much would you personally charge for labor? say if you had to install my parts?
M Kefayati they charge a pretty penny
@@hector971000 its worth the quality work, I know!
2019 Seat Leon Cupra and I have already changed a lot of parts (R600 intake, springs, exhaust, etc.) :-P
M Kefayati where you located?
@@hector971000 France
Skoda octavia vrs 2018??
wtf are vw not usally alum version of the sub frame and control arms in canada any way is beyond me.
Camber is not for and aft.
Will it gonaa be more comfy or stiffer?
Ok if I choose way without lossening subframe, is it necessary to remove propshaft ? in manual they says yes... but what is simplest way if I dont have lift and doing it on the yard? doest loosening of transmission mounts together with propshaft work?
It might be late, but for allroad/quattro/whatever vehicles - the easiest and safest option is just to lower the subframe, using some jack stands, bottle jacks or whatever to hold it in place and control the process. I had to replace both control arms bushings and flex disc on the propshaft at the front, so had to drop the subframe completely
@@test_704 according manual it is sufficient to remove dogbone in order to access propshaft...but lowering subframe is not safe..you need some centric tool, then all 9 cca new bolts , wheel adjustment etx
@@majklxxx for myself I decided to go the other way though, so far it seems to be ok. Definitely will check the wheel alignment in a few days
i did it with removing transmission mount .. possible for 4x4... but hard to put DSG into origin position
@@majklxxx Good to know, thanks for sharing! Just wondering - how long did it took to do all the job? I guess it took way less time than for me. Thanks!
Why they dont do this in factory
Cost. Stamped steel is less expensive than aluminum.
paul what size gloves you got on those hands?
Crazy ... Every car is born with a specific chassis . You can update the silentblocks , is not dangerous , but you can’t update the O.E control arm with a new one in alluminion if the car is born with cast iron or steel . For ex , the Audi A3 petrol is equiped with cast iron but the diesel version is equiped with steel control arm . Why ? Because the weight . Other than that , it doesn’t make sense for daily use car . Be carefull to do this . Ask to the company the right omologation and inscurance . PS , my company produce chassis components and i know very well what I say
Drop the subframe to change a bottom arm. What a poor design
86andyw not a poor design he has to remove the dogbone and pry engine forward I’m a certified vw tech so woulda been faster but oh well
Killerbulldozer4 : I’m going to do this job soon, can you elaborate on that? Are you saying he didn’t need to drop the sub frame to remove the drivers side front control arm bolt? ...And instead all he had to do was remove the dogbone and pry the engine forward to get to it? Thanks 👍🏻
Kevin Hannon sorry I’m late on reply yes I’m a vw tech and essentially if you remove the dog bone bolt and you pry your engine near the trans you can push it forward just enough to get the bolt out without dropping sub frame
Killerbulldozer4 : No worries, thanks for the reply! One more question if you don’t mind... do you need to drop the sub frame to fit a front sway bar in there?
I’m about to do a KW V2 coil over install and would like to add the SuperPro control arms, front and rear sway, and end links at the same time so I don’t have to get an alignment twice.
Other brands like toyota is the same...
came ber
Came-ber, camber.
Toma-toe, tomato.
Caymber
Ha that sucks for you.
When you start running out of things to Mod.
HUGE weight saving there.....,just go for a big shit before Autocross!
0.30lb weight savings? damn I'll pass
The real improvement is the rear bushing. The factory one is a big rubber donut with voids in it, it allows a ton of deflection. The superpro is a spherical bearing encased in polyurethane so it basically has zero deflection but absorbs some NVH.
you 100$ snap on screwdriver is not a prybar, get a proper round punch boi!