well this is a linux problem, if the package manage had a clue it would just install relevant packages, it is not user friendly, plain and simple, linux savages know it because they took the time to learn it, if linux wants to be usable they will stop being so anal, it is what drives off people lol, i built arch from scratch and as linux is 4% of all pc users im 1% of linux users so im really biased, but do realize its not user friendly at all, im just highly adaptable
@@felixfourcolor This is it, it´s not that he failed hard it is that he is smug as hell about it and kinda refuses to even consider that HE could´ve made some mistakes, all while not even having informed himself in any proper way. Edit: And if he is not that smug, he should make a video admitting he did mess up this one and set things straight, instead of leaving the false information out there.
In the Gentoo wiki it's mentioned but highly discouraged. They even list out all the packages in the meta and show exactly what they are. The arch wiki just says it's more minimal and check the package for more info, that's it. In those moments i come to really like the Gentoo wiki over arch so people don't pull a brody.
If there is an Edit Mode for a panel and an Edit Mode for the desktop, then they should be named "Panel Edit Mode" and "Desktop Edit Mode". Naming things without using proper semantics is again the issue here.
tbh, when I install KDE, I also don't use the meta package, because when it comes time to remove KDE from the system after my survey, I've always had a lot of issues getting rid of every piece of it from the system. If I remember right, it has something to do with certain parts coming in as dependencies, so they don't get listed as orphans, and you end up having to hunt down all that stuff manually. It's just a real pain.
Regarding virtual desktops: Why do we have to create one before being able to use the feature? In my opinion, a dynamic number of virtual desktops should be the default and they are created as needed (obvious Gnome bias hint). If you don't use it, you would never know. But if you want, they are already there and ready. And if you need a fixed amount, just go configure that. Apart from that, I'm extremely interested to give Plasma a spin for at least a month when it drops with Fedora Atomic Desktops. I'm a strong fan of polish, but I love modern features and am sick of switching to X11 just to use my VR headset. Edit: That song was amazing!
I think maybe one argument for not having them there by default is that a very fresh user may hit the shortcut for switching desktop and be very confused about where all their programs went and not know how to get them back. Or if they are there maybe provide some easy indication the first time or something? It's important to keep in mind that it's not just meant for power users.
Ikr. Xfce also created 4 workspaces by default and it was cool. The only thing I don't like about them in Plasma, is Pager widget. It takes way too much space.
I mean, for the virtual desktops thing... If there was a button to open the overview in the panel, I would have no complaints, but you should understand that for most people if something doesn't appear on screen it doesn't exist, you can't expect people who don't know the environment to press a random shortcut and call it a day...
You said if Brodie went into overview he would have seen the virtual desktops at the top. It actually wasn't there. He was having the same issue that i was having. Tom from Switched to Linux also had the same issue. If you go to your virtual desktop settings, and change the number of rows from 1 row, to 2 rows. The virtual desktops at the top of the screen in overview disappear. It's a bug. This behavior isn't present in Plasma 5 in the older Overview display. It works fine there. I've made bug reports on this, but they seem to have gone unnoticed.
No. That's not the issue. I have 4 virtual desktops. If I go into overview. All 4 are shown at the top of the screen. If I go to the virtual desktop settings, and change how many rows they are displayed in. They all vanish from overview. That's what I'm saying. I still have 4 virtual desktops active. But when arranged into 2 rows, they vanish from overview. That's the bug.
@@matthewmoore757 Yeh Matthew, this is lcronos from the cupoflinux matrix room. That's intended behavior. If you have, say 2 desktops per row and more than 1 row, the overview won't show them. You go into grid view for that, which is why the default is hitting overview 2x takes you to the grid. You only see desktops in the overview if you have 1 row or if you only have 1 desktop per row.
@@Chr0n0s38 But Plasma 5 does show them when configured that way. That's why I don't belive its intended behavior. Because it works in plasma 5. And not Plasma 6. And there's nothing in the changelog for overview that says this behavior was changed. I think the devs are telling you its intended becuase they don't understand the problem.
@@matthewmoore757 I think it is intended because the grid view takes on that functionality. If I have 2 rows with 4 desktops each then I expect to only see 4 desktops in a row. Seeing 8 in a row in one place is inconsistent. With the grid view now being tied in with the overview there is now a way to actually show the full grid the way you expect it to appear without wasting a ton of space.
I like Brodie's content and watch his videos frequently, the problem with his KDE video is that he went in looking for a 1:1 replacement for the system he already had which is, and I have no other way to put this, stupid. Add that to he many other user-related(not KDE's fault) problems and you get the video he made. I've been using KDE6 on Arch without any issues, so, what gives?
A question, and I am not joking or trolling, why do you (or anyone for that matter) like Broadies videos. He is soooo smug all the time, kinda thinks he always knows better, and that has really been what I took from watching him years before this disaster of incompetence. Only difference is that this time someone with actual knowledge points out how wrong he is. And this is really not the first time he does something stupid all while being smug, and even in videos where he is completely right, I just can´t stand his smugness and know that his information is always to be taken with a grain of salt. He seems like the most incompetent big Linux RUclipsr, but he also is one of the most arrogant. And I really tried to like him at some point but no, no way. And this is all fine and personal preference, but I hate that he has influence over people, seeing people on Reddit referencing to this mess of a video from him to point out that Plasma 6 is not good. Edit: The least he could do is make a video addressing this, admitting that he messed up, and best case also take the video down to not misinform people anymore than he already has. When he said "more people should install Plasma like me" and than completely messing up, that´s the point where you have to make amends, set things straight. But this way he is just hurting the reputation of Plasma, which is hurting the whole FOSS community in general.
When he says "If we press "Super+T" which should be enabled by default" @10:10 he's saying "This should be the default shortcut you can also use". As an Australian I understood his intent, I can understand how he was misunderstood though.
@@niccoloveslinux yeah he’s not suggesting a change, “should” doesn’t always mean “I am making a suggestion/critique” it can also mean “our experiences are probably similar”
@@thingsiplay that’s fair! However it’s more like “in a perfect scenario, your install should be the same as mine” as he can’t guarantee it will be, but it SHOULD be.
13:00 XFCE also does the same thing where all monitors change virtual desktop. I don't know if I've ever actually seen a system that does what Brodie is describing.
Idea: the KDE welcome scree. (The first boot popup) should probably have just a few but very important keyboard shortcuts and an explanation of them. Just a few, but stuff like the Meta + W for the overview (that should probably change to Meta + O for overview but ok) should be mentioned. Since overview came out lots of KDE users still don't know it exists. Another must known would be Alt + Space. Maybe two or three more. Useful.
I'm pretty sure Polonium didn't work at the time Brodie did his initial run through Plasma 6. I had tried it early on and every time I moved a window plasma crashed. A few days later updates fixed it, but I'm guessing Brodie might not have tried reinstalling Polonium before making this video.
I tried Polonium recently and I didn't like it compared to tiling window managers. I'm sure it will get better over time, but it didn't do the job for me.
Nicco, I've used all kinds of operating systems: MS-DOS, Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, 2000, XP, 7, 8, 10, 11, FreeBSD, Mandriva, and Ubuntu (since the days they gave away CDs). In recent years, I've mainly used Linux Mint for its stability and security, and because I don't like rolling releases (yes, I've tried Arch with Hyprland and different environments). But Plasma 6... my God, it made me switch from Mint and Windows. I moved to Fedora 40 KDE spin, and it's honestly the most beautiful and my favorite so far. The only thing... it would be great to have a button in the theme settings to switch between dark and light themes based on the time of day. I used Windows for Spacedesk to use my Boox Note Air 1 e-ink Android tablet as a secondary monitor. I haven't figured out how to replace that in Plasma 6 + Wayland + Fedora yet. KDE Connect doesn't let me use it as a secondary display.
The fact that KDE has did so much efforts to push and keep continuing with the cube, just explains that they like gimmicks in the name of "its so much customizable omg wow".
Your comment about Plasma-Meta is correct; it is what gets installed if the user chooses KDE as the DE when running archinstall from the iso. Unfortunately the Arch packagers have chosen to include Discover in that (which is not necessarily included). It also gets you Kate, Konsole and Dolphin, so it is still very barebones (great). I chose to install desktop and add on top of that, but hey, that's me (I do the same with tumbleweed). As for all this tiling: i use a WM for that. And otherwise I think Polonium could fit the bill. Will be interesting to see how Cosmic addresses that. All in all Plasma 6 is stellar, of course there are things to fix and improve, but overall a great experience1 Thanks for that!
5:42 I love KDE the most out of any desktop environment, and I wouldn't replace it with anything, but I disagree with this hard. Error messages of ANY kind, even if it's something as indecipherable to the layman as a specific memory address failure location, allow people to quickly troubleshoot things and makes bug reports easier to narrow down/less common, since a relatively new user who is not familiar with the terminal, or just simply thinks you should have a GUI to avoid the terminal as much as possible, can go "ahhhh, the reason this isn't working is not because the desktop is buggy, it's because of user error. I need to install this dependency and I'll be okay." Keep in mind, even if you _do_ think it's totally cool to use the terminal to install things (I mean, why else would you be on arch), you may not always know the dependency name even if you know _how to_ install dependencies. Also you'd need to know the exact application name in the terminal in order to bring that menu up and troubleshoot it in the way you consider ideal.
The thing is, having a broken install is not really a valid error. It's not even the program's error, it's an error of the distro that installed you a broken KDE. Expecting programmers to consistently test for these conditions all over all applications and displaying them nicely is unreasonable
The Edit mode issue ... Another classic case of nomenclature and communication ... If there are different ways to edit something, why would they be called identically? How about: - panel edit mode [or simply `edit panel`] - desktop edit mode [or simply `edit desktop`] - general edit more [or simply `edit environment`] Clear communication, clear understanding Not so clear communication, not so clear understanding Regardless of Brodie`s reason for his `complaint`, what can be taken away from that is that communication may be confusing if not used intelligently !
While I really like Brodie's content, this is one video I find myself on the opposite side with him more often then not. Especially, the KDE tiling, which I *love*. As a person that literally grew up with KDE, floating windows are natural to me and I could never get the hang of tiling window managers (it must be a mental block in my brain). But KDE tiling is a perfect medium between floating and tiling.
Of the distros I have kicking around, Nobara is the only one still on Plasma 6. It's been rough. I'm not sure what is going on but it seems like something the distros are doing or not doing that causes an unfortunate string of issues that doesn't even let me get past log in screen when plasma 6 is installed...except on Nobara. 🤷
I am a creature of habit; I've been using GNOME since well before GNOME 3 was released. Although I've attempted to switch to KDE a few times in the past, it never quite felt like home. This may have been due to not dedicating enough time to customize it. I think it's time to give it another try, committing more time to tailor it to my liking. It looks pretty sweet.
I watch Brodies content for a bit of surface level coverage of whatever droll drama is doing the news rounds that week so I don’t have to spend any of my life reading about it. He’s not a place I’d go for any topic requiring any actual level of technical knowledge, nuance, etc. He knows the algorithm rewards people who yell hot takes in to a microphone to create a dumpster fire in the comment section.
Please do something about touchpad gestures for switching between workspaces virtual desktops. It seems that a two finger swipe in the y Axis is the only gesture to switch between virtual desktops. It would have been better if we were able to edit gestures
5:40 Given how configurable and modularized Linux can be, missing dependencies is not a super rare situation to be in. The UI shouldn't necessarily bombard you with error alerts, but there could be a placeholder page that could at least say that something is missing, especially if pages can be modules as packages.
My main issue with the KDE tiling features that you can access with Meta+T is there is no good keyboard only way to use it, it's very mouse heavy which for me defeats the point of tiling. I use the meta arrow key combos to snap windows to halves, quarter and full screen all the time. If setting up the 'zones' in Meta+T replaced the normal quadrants and using the Meta + arrow keys once you can customized these splits now moved the windows between custom splits that you be much more intuitive in my view. I would have the default split you see when you hit Meta+T be the 4 quadrants as this corresponds to the current window snapping you get with Meta+arrows. It would be great for this to Include things like the ability to expand to multiple zones with multiple/combined keystrokes like what happens when you have a window in the top or bottom quadrant on one side and you tap the left or right arrow, depending on the screen edge the window is next to, and it expands to fill the vertical space. e.g. If I put a window in the bottom right with Meta+Down+Right then tap Meat+Right it expands up to fill the whole right side of my screen. If I'd edited my splits to have 3 on the right side of my monitor I'd expect the window to expand up 1 zone and occupy about the bottom 2/3rds of the right hand side of my screen, repeating this would fill the whole right side. Basically I think the current 'semantics' of Meta+Arrow keys would map just fine on the the splits and it would be great to see them integrated.
What sucks is not that he installed the wrong packages to begin with, but that the package naming doesn't use proper semantics to let someone know what is inside. KDE Application Bundle would be a lot more meaningful than KDE Gears. Meta package might have meaning for package maintainers, but if you don't know what a meta package is, it means nothing
Brodie has tens of thousands of subscribers and people donate hundreds of dollars a month to him because he portrays himself as an authority on open-source and Linux - he should know what a meta-package is.
As a normie (Kubuntu user) I agree. No wonder why it doen't work when I try to purge the GnomeDE and reinstall the Plasma to reset the mess I created. It's because I reinstall the plasma-desktop because I thoght it was the whole DE.
@@rodrigo.55being new doesn't exclude you from reading the archwiki. In fact that's the first thing you read in order to understand what meta package is
I do think it would be nice if kde had optional auto tiling, to where you could have windows appear full screen. If you open another one, it will split down like the longest length of the hovered window. Or if you take a window out of tiling, it simply is floating now, and you can later put it back into tiling the same way you do now, but it dynamically sticks to other windows.
I've installed plasma-meta as is suggested by Arch wiki. No issues. I am tiling wm user, my biggest issue was how to setup - switch to desktop with Meta+number - push window to desktop with Meta+Shift+number
I've had the stuttering thing and I installed plasma correctly. I just didn't file a bug report, since I forgot and switch between environments (I have more than one). I'm on AMD not an Nvidia system (which already has a a bug for it I think). I saw a similar bug but for Plasma 5. Would opening the bug for 6 be a duplicate or not?
I like KDE, I am grateful for the work you guys are doing. I am fine with KDE tiling being a port of Windows' FancyZones, that is what I personally was looking for anyway. While the tiling talk did feel a little bit more about his personal taste, there are some good points made in the video I feel. In my experience, crash notifications appear normally, so silent errors do sound a little bit weird. I am running normal KDE installations on Fedora and Kubuntu, I don't think I miss dependencies to confirm this... But I am going to disagree on the "silent errors are fine" opinion. Even though I am fine with using terminal if I have an important process to do, I would rather want to see if there is an error happening, without having terminal open. I understand a lot of software crashes without a trace. I also understand you don't want to tire users with unknown errors and warnings, but I don't always have terminal open and a lot of users won't either. About the Edit Modes, when I first came to KDE from Windows, I also got confused by separate Edit Modes. That specific problem feels like a naming problem. Metapackage problem sounds like that package might be named vaguely, too. Since KDE Plasma is "KDE Desktop Environment", it doesn't sound that off-base to think "plasma-desktop" package would be a minimal install, in my opinion. I know that Brodie is a more advanced user, so him doing this kind of mistake feels weird, but people do weird mistakes sometimes. Even experts...
My desktop stutters sometimes with effects, I have restart plasma to fix it. My biggest problem is KDE not using group permissions for the file manager, that is mega annoying.
Regarding the camera issue - I can't be sure but it looks like a hardware thing, some just reports fake hardware to your OS, either due to technicalities of how it works or due to problems. For example my monitor is connected to my GPU through an adapter, which makes it report an additional fake monitor, and a fake sound card to my OS. The same issue on any Linux DE and on Windows.
Thank you for a really funny video! I like Brodie but he messed this one up. I think the Arch wiki is partly to blame though. I really want to like plasma but I find the settings confusing. I think part of the problem is that only part of it is translated to my language so I don't know what language to search in and what things are called. I end up having to google it when I want to change my settings. That is not a good exeriece.
My only issue in plasma is differently very little right nowt this being a issue that I've also had to witness from kde 5 as well (When you grab a full screen window it has two behavior it either grabs the top left corner or the same spot depending on if the application was already full screen at startup) little stuff like that. However, some builds did crash before the 6.0.3 version for me. I don't get the why bodie didn't do more trouble shooting. Thanks for the work on the kde desktop environment and keep up the work much love!
"Arch user complains about bloat and breaks his own system by refusing to install needed components, and then proceeds to complain about how his system is broken." - is the most Arch user thing ever. To be honest I blame this on the Arch package maintainers. They should had correctly set up all dependencies for all KDE packages. I am kinda fed up with users complaining about broken KDE installs just because their distro didn't set up the required dependencies correctly. Believe or not, many people install the "plasma-desktop" as if it was the whole KDE environment. Many people especially Arch users think any "meta" package is full of bloat and avoid it like the plague. Key packages like the plasma-desktop should literally also pull the whole base kde system with it as dependencies. Brodie should know better because of well, who he is, but also the distro maintainers should do better too. These distro maintainers problems fcks up many distros...
Also the Arch wiki should be more clear. It says you can install plasma-desktop for a more minimal install. It should say you won't get all dependencies.
Will the grid functionality from 5.27 get recreated on 6 at some point? - activate grid from screen edge - have the virtual desktops [for ex. 4] appear in 1 row on the pager, but still appear as a 2x2 grid when grid is activated. ->It was called automatic layout I think. [It works like this on cinnamon too] The new way to manage virt desktops with the overview, with only horizontal dimension, and no mouse wheel navigation I guess is quite ok especially for those with newer laptops and new generation trackpads, but not really usable for those with older laptops, who like the mouse instead of keyboard-focused navigation About wayland session: - the 'roll up / shade' windows feature doesn't work. looks like it never will, so probably best to just remove it as an option in wayland session - window rule to have an application open on a specific desktop does't work. same suggestion as above; if it's not going to be worked on, why not just get rid of it? we''ll get over it to be clear- if nothing changes, I'd still be a content kde user.
Great vid, glad to see you again! Just a slight comment on the background music/audio. It sounds like you got some lofi ambience there, which is generally a good idea. Problem is, that ambience contains something like sound of rain, wind or something along those lines. And when that stuff is at low volume, constantly in the background, it just sounds like a hiss from bad audio gear. This just makes it sound like you have a bad mic, and makes the video less pleasant to watch. My suggestion for future is to use music without the "natural ambience", so there is no rain or wind noise.
The application launcher thing is valid ... yes, it is not meant to be used and Brodie did, but on the widgets panel on the left, nothing is said that certain applets work in certain areas of the desktop! That means three is an issue with either the way it is presented or the way a widget is described. There are many ways to make that better ... such as categories, warning messages, etc Think about that for a second ... If I have 10 widgets on the panel, 8 work on the desktop and 2 work only on the task bar ... how would I know about that?
Btw one gripe I have with the new workspace overview/ switcher is that when you arrange workspaces as a grid the "strip" on the side or top that shows all the workspaces doesn't show up anymore :( I had to make my workspaces a vertical line, which is... fine, but I do like my grid 🥺(i should report this as an actual bug but I've not had the spoons to figure out how and where yet)
I think that Plasma 6 is a great release. As a longtime Ubuntu(gnome) user, I am considering switching to KDE. And I have not encountered any bugs during my tests. Only some missing or not perfectly implemented functions: - the online accounts are a mess and only work with a lot of manual adjustments - no panel / dock in the overview - it is not possible to display the same panel on all monitors - I notice in some other places that some polishing is still missing (it was never annoying)
I commented about most of those complaints on Brodie's original video and i still expects him to do a retraction video in the bain of "oops i missed these obvious things" but he didn't yet. Maybe he will in reply to Nicco.
I do think there is a little much built in, sometimes I do something silly and plug in a monitor while my computer is running and it thinks it's a laptop and treats that monitor as an external monitor from that point on and every time I wake my computer it asks me what to do with it haha, my fault for doing something that you should never do but it is a bit odd.
Ill use plasma the day it looks more polished and complete, right now(and basically all plasma versions) it looks like the devs started and stopped halfway for the user to do the finishing job-that's not "customizability" sorry. You do your part and then let the user do as they please, be it better or worse. A good example would be-the latest floating dock panel/taskbar. Its good as it is but you can take it way beyond, it was so whacky before.
Niccolo, I suggest you to make some small changes in the ui. 1. The gray coloured windows and top bar looks really bad and old or legacy. # should be replaced with a light transparency with blur and slight system colour tint. 2. The default icons look a little too weird. # should be slightly rounded and less like of the weirdness. 3. Sound effects have been improved. # they are fine but can be improved for better user experience. 4.The theme looks too legacy and inconsistent # The windows and buttons and the tabs and the general style should be improved and rounded. 5. The animations are also not very well done. Like the floating app menu default animation and system tray animation clearly starts or collapses at a bit of height and the animations are also not that smooth. # Just a little more detail on ui and ux along with the animations are required. 6. The settings app. # Just organize everything into separate menus. Like system, appearance & theme, network, display, about etc. 7. The system tray (action panel) doesn't look modern. # They should have pill icons with settings and suppose if the Bluetooth is turned on, the Bluetooth icon should change colour if Bluetooth in on.
After 3 years with Plasma I decided to try out Hyprland (part of the motivation was the death of window shading, I relied on that thing _a lot_ ) and I kinda agree with Brodie on some points (at least feature wise). Per-monitor desktop/workspace is just so much better than global, I want that in Plasma sooooooo bad! One monitor is pretty much just dedicated for Discord and Spotify or whatever and I just pin those windows because I don't want to lose them when I go to another VD
Pinning a window to "all desktops" is a simple workaround to get the (quite annoying to me but maybe useful to others) GNOME behaviour of "only your primary screen has virtual desktops". If you stop and start your session a lot, you can make a window rule for these windows. Other than that I don't understand why someone would want "per screen virtual desktops" - it's just so much work to manage and what is even the use case?
@@guss77 Same use case as having virtual desktops at all... More organized workflow. With per-monitor VDs you don't have to pin windows to every VD just so you can always keep an eye on that window, you just don't change the VD of that monitor until you have a reason to. It still gives you the full use case of having multiple monitors without compromising virtual desktops. In Plasma I pretty much _have_ to pin Discord (and made a rule for it) so I could always chat with friends regardless of what desktop I was on, but this pretty much locked that monitor to only be a "discord monitor". In Plasma 5 I could "just" shade the window and reveal whatever apps I had below it, but shading is not being saved so that will no longer work, plus it was very much not convenient, so really that monitor was just being used for one or 2 apps. On Hyprland I have 9 desktops and controls them super easily with the numpad, I don't have to worry about missing chat if I go to my "projects" desktop because that desktop is _only_ for my main display, and if I needed to jot something down, either for my projects desktop or whatever else, I can quickly change the previously-Discord-locked monitor to my notetaking desktop, then switch back without ever having to change the desktop of ALL my monitors.
I’m using KDE plasma as my desktop from 5.20, I has been using KDE in days of 3.5 I never faced issues described in this video. Maybe because I am user and don’t do experiments. I am too old and need to switch to lxqt
Hello Nicco, I'm using Sway and I love using Dolphin file manager, since the last actualization dolphin doesn't launch files through the mimetypes, do you now how to fix it?.
Aside from needed bugfixes, my only 2 problems I reall care about is not being able to asign monitors to different workspaces and not being able to limit global themes on systems I make for clients. Other than that, I still prefer Plasma.
It isn't about partnering with other RUclipsrs but watching "naive" users, to discover, where they struggle and if there are legit rough spots or not. Bug reports are great for bugs, but less ideal for users struggling with UX issues. Partnering with RUclipsrs has the advantage of being able to document the UX struggles in video without you setting up a lab to record the interaction, and as a side benefit, it provides content for both channels. I heard some RUclipsrs are constantly searching for content ideas ;)
Overall, I like Plasma 6, except one thing: Desktop Grid. Previously it was a separate thing and now it became part of Overview. This is fine, but we cannot assign this new Desktop Grid to a screen edge action, like we could before. We can assign Overview and Present Windows (which duplicates the functionality of Overview), but to trigger Desktop Grid directly, we can only use a keyboard shortcut. Everything else works great, aside from Wayland, but that's not Plasma's fault, but Nvidia's.
6:06 "it does, under terminal which is sensible place" dude, so you're saying KDE should never tell its user because of what dependency anything is failing, and just fail to work. Nice!! KDE will implement a "cube" but its hard for them to implement a high school pop up. Nice, again.
I like Brodie and his content, but that one video of his should have been titled, "Why I Still Prefer My Favourite WM". He installed Plasma a way you're not supposed to, and then his complaints were mainly about Plasma not working the way he's used to on his personal WM setup.
I feel Brodie as a power user is maybe going into this not fully considering that KDE is meant to be more easy to use and the defaults and how things are set up are structured in a way to be approachable to people wich much less experience using a computer than him as you hint at in the video.
Honesty virtual desktops are always touted as a necessity. Although I think 10% of PC users actually fully understand them, including Windows 10. Making Nicco's comments valid concerns
I guess the naming for the packages is a bit confusing, as "desktop" would usually mean it's good for normal desktop usage, and "meta" in this day and age doesn't mean anything since everyone uses it for anything.
The -meta naming thing is an arch packaging Standard. (A so called metapackage (used by apt and pacman) is a package that Pulls in the necessary dependencies and installs everything necessary to run a DE (or whatever the metapackage is for). There's also groups (pacman) that work similar but do not autoupdate dependency changes
Brodie saying programs should tell you what dependencies are missing reminds me of my old college gamedev teacher. He would tell us that our code should not throw any exceptions or crash, even if the devs didn't provide any objects or parameters needed in the game engine editor. So you have to never assume anything is setup correctly or that you have anything at all to work with, assume you can not rely on absolutely anything. This is kind of the same thing with the dependency thing, you'd have to have a "base" version of every app that would somehow work without any dependencies at all and be able to show you error dialogs that dependencies are missing, without using any external technology or toolkit.
you literally cannot create software without assuming the necessary dependencies are in place. If you had to write fallback for each dependency you would have bloated code with very little logic.
Too much bickering and not enough asking the community. Rather than watching both of you doing this I would rather be voting. I also think this would help the direction things go. No bias I like both of you guys
11:20 wait, that's actually pretty powerful. Why wasn't that advertised more? Scriptable tiling... I feel like whoever wrote the advertising took the wrong examples from Hollywood. Don't cut important scenes
Nicco, I think you should take the "Edit Mode" part more seriously. When I click "Edit Mode" in the desktop menu, all windows minimize, and the "edit" effect highlighting margins and splitters appears on the panel, so I would naturally assume it's a global edit mode where I can edit all panels. This is a design issue.
The silent errors are 100% a bug. If you want people adopting Linux, this is the kind of thing an average user would not know what to do with. Yes, this is an incorrect way of setting up the desktop, but an average user could end up in a similar situation, whether from packages being at wrong versions, distributions failing to properly package things, this is not the only scenario in which a user may encounter a silent crash. Not providing feedback to a user when something is wrong is not only unintuitive, but also disrespectful to the user's time
I don't agree that GUI apps shouldn't have to tell the user that the dependency is missing and just silently crash. Or rather, i agree with it generally, but not in the case of KDE. It's not like a windows environment where it installs the whole package and to miss those dependencies you'd have to go and manually delete the components, so microsoft can allow themselves to assume that the dependency is there and quietly fail if there isn't. KDE has no such privilege. I assume most users are using it preinstalled on the distros that put all the necessary dependencies in there, so it's probably not that big of a problem, but it is a problem and a UX issue nonetheless. If something in your software depends on something that may or may not be there it should be specified in the interface, for example relevant menu items or buttons should be greyed out and inactive with a tooltip that provides you with extra information.
I always wonder why people think that KDE plasma is so complex when Cinnamon IMO has about the same complexity as plasma these days. so like, why does KDE get all this flack when cinnamon is considered an easy to use distro??
Maybe because of difference in philosophy? KDE is usually advertised as "thinker's" DE, you are supposed to play with it. Cinnamon is advertise as classical "Windows" workflow DE with a robust customization options if needed, you are not really supposed to mess with settings, unless you have some specific issues to solve.
The full-screen plasma launcher makes not much sense as a desktop widget and is indeed confusing to users, as Brodie demonstrated, and you're laughing about the struggles of an inexperienced Plasma user, or should I say a user that developed callouses yet from these kinds of rough edges, which isn't nice and non-helpful as you just ignore the rough spot and blame the user. Maybe adding a popup hint that can be disabled, like many game tutorial messages, or adding categories, badges, or tags, could smoothen the experience.
I haven't seen all of Brodie's videos, so I could be wrong, but it seems to me that he very often criticizes something that he doesn't really understand.
Look, the video says it all. If you call something tiling, then a tiling window manager user will expect the same. And no, it's not just autotiling, there are also manual tilers. Brodie isn't the first nor will he be the last to criticize that. And please don't say polonium, these scripts are cool, but do not compare to a wm in features or stability, it's a plugin that can break with any kde release -> happened with bismuth multiple times. Short: your feature looks good and useful, good work there! Just, the naming can and will confuse an at least considerable number of people within the FOSS space.
This guy is a Karen male version, i remember an old video of his beefing with other tubers, also break things and blames external factors, he's weird, with that said KDE plasma still needs work, the positive thing is i see improvements👏🏽
So far I love my Plasma 6. Great job and thanks to the team. Polonium still doesn't cut it for me, but that's not made by KDE. I wish we had an in house alternative to Bismuth which was compatible with Wayland and Plasma 6.
Sorry but i don't agree that errors should only go into the terminal, at least if we ever hope to get more users onto Linux. The general public hates the terminal and most likely has no idea when a window just suddenly disappears, almost feeling gaslit by the environment because there is no error and no hint where to look for clues about what's going on. It's even worse than the infamous MS bsod because there is nothing to google. I can sympathize if it's harder to implement on the code side but a user will always expect some kind of feedback when something is wrong. About arch single-vs-meta package install, aren't effects considered part of the desktop? If i activate an effect that's available to me(listed anywhere in the settings i.e the alt-tab switcher) then i most likely do expect it working without more additional packages and if a file is missing then it's a bug. Just like qt3d was a bug not packaged as a dependency. Agreed about edit mode, it makes sense to me and everyone who has been using for a while because we got used to it but new users don't realize the 2 modes are totally separate.
Polonium: I was a WM user too and switched to KDE (for now). Actually I agree in some parts with Nicco and with Brodie. Watching Brodie daily content. I also installed Polonium Kwin script to automatic tile windows, because not having auto tiling is unusable on any system. The problem is, that Polonium is incomplete and still buggy. I'm not complaining about the Polonium developer, he does what he can do and improves it over time. But at the moment, this is still a wonky experience.
I'm sorry, but I fully disagree with the idea that there is no responsibility for a DESKTOP to give you error messages. Even if it is just the same stuff that would have been in the console, just within a separate window. The desktop could very clearly open windows and do things and so it could have easily displayed an error message for a missing linked function or sth. For example, for me the Linux console is inaccessible once a desktop starts, because NVIDIA is stupid. I have no way to debug through the console, and therefore no way to actually debug an issue like this. And saying "Oh just install the meta package" doesn't fix anything, because what happens (like in LTTs case) when the package manager or any other part of the system screws up and deletes required dependencies? TLDR I very much agree with Brody: Telling a user nothing is ALWAYS a bug.
"Man this window manager sucks, I can't even configure a wallpaper. I have to install a serrate application for that. Window managers suck, I don't understand why so many people use them!"
I'm not always knowledgeable nor interested in Brodie's subject matter, but when I am knowledgeable he's often misunderstood the subject or completely missing the point and in those cases the comment section is usually more interesting than the video. I watched his Plasma 6 one too and stopped watching it when he was complaining about not getting into panel edit mode when he hadn't actually selected the panel, I don't think the video deserved any response at all to be honest. I use Gentoo stable here so will be on Plasma 5 for a while yet which I don't mind at all, with Gentoo, stable is what you get, however I have a Neon VM and keep an eye on what's happening on that and I think you guys have done a great gob and thank you so much for that.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
The qt3d thing is purely an Arch packaging thing. It is not Plasma responsability, but Arch's maintainer.
Arch has maintainers?
>Installs the Desktop without the environment
>*suprised pikachu* why is there no environment???
well this is a linux problem, if the package manage had a clue it would just install relevant packages, it is not user friendly, plain and simple, linux savages know it because they took the time to learn it, if linux wants to be usable they will stop being so anal, it is what drives off people lol, i built arch from scratch and as linux is 4% of all pc users im 1% of linux users so im really biased, but do realize its not user friendly at all, im just highly adaptable
Kinda funny how Arch users always "rtfm", the wiki says about difference between packages, and still he installs the wrong package /neu
I usually like Brody, but as soon as he said how he installed Plasma I knew the video would be a train wreck.
Arrogance is what it is. He's trying a new piece of software yet he assumes he knows how to install it better than the dev's recommended way.
@@felixfourcolor This is it, it´s not that he failed hard it is that he is smug as hell about it and kinda refuses to even consider that HE could´ve made some mistakes, all while not even having informed himself in any proper way.
Edit: And if he is not that smug, he should make a video admitting he did mess up this one and set things straight, instead of leaving the false information out there.
In the Gentoo wiki it's mentioned but highly discouraged. They even list out all the packages in the meta and show exactly what they are. The arch wiki just says it's more minimal and check the package for more info, that's it.
In those moments i come to really like the Gentoo wiki over arch so people don't pull a brody.
Brody usually is a hater
If there is an Edit Mode for a panel and an Edit Mode for the desktop, then they should be named "Panel Edit Mode" and "Desktop Edit Mode". Naming things without using proper semantics is again the issue here.
tbh, when I install KDE, I also don't use the meta package, because when it comes time to remove KDE from the system after my survey, I've always had a lot of issues getting rid of every piece of it from the system. If I remember right, it has something to do with certain parts coming in as dependencies, so they don't get listed as orphans, and you end up having to hunt down all that stuff manually. It's just a real pain.
Regarding virtual desktops: Why do we have to create one before being able to use the feature? In my opinion, a dynamic number of virtual desktops should be the default and they are created as needed (obvious Gnome bias hint). If you don't use it, you would never know. But if you want, they are already there and ready. And if you need a fixed amount, just go configure that.
Apart from that, I'm extremely interested to give Plasma a spin for at least a month when it drops with Fedora Atomic Desktops. I'm a strong fan of polish, but I love modern features and am sick of switching to X11 just to use my VR headset.
Edit: That song was amazing!
Another thing Plasma could do is automatically create the virtual desktops if you hit the keyboard shortcut for it.
I think maybe one argument for not having them there by default is that a very fresh user may hit the shortcut for switching desktop and be very confused about where all their programs went and not know how to get them back. Or if they are there maybe provide some easy indication the first time or something? It's important to keep in mind that it's not just meant for power users.
There's actually a Kwin script for this!
Ikr. Xfce also created 4 workspaces by default and it was cool.
The only thing I don't like about them in Plasma, is Pager widget. It takes way too much space.
Name of the script? @@GemmstoneA
I mean, for the virtual desktops thing... If there was a button to open the overview in the panel, I would have no complaints, but you should understand that for most people if something doesn't appear on screen it doesn't exist, you can't expect people who don't know the environment to press a random shortcut and call it a day...
That's a fair point. But turning them on by default isn't a good idea because it will confuse people who don't use them.
You said if Brodie went into overview he would have seen the virtual desktops at the top. It actually wasn't there. He was having the same issue that i was having. Tom from Switched to Linux also had the same issue. If you go to your virtual desktop settings, and change the number of rows from 1 row, to 2 rows. The virtual desktops at the top of the screen in overview disappear. It's a bug. This behavior isn't present in Plasma 5 in the older Overview display. It works fine there. I've made bug reports on this, but they seem to have gone unnoticed.
I said grid view! Desktop bar being hidden in Overview if there's only one desktop is intentional
No. That's not the issue. I have 4 virtual desktops. If I go into overview. All 4 are shown at the top of the screen. If I go to the virtual desktop settings, and change how many rows they are displayed in. They all vanish from overview. That's what I'm saying. I still have 4 virtual desktops active. But when arranged into 2 rows, they vanish from overview. That's the bug.
@@matthewmoore757 Yeh Matthew, this is lcronos from the cupoflinux matrix room.
That's intended behavior. If you have, say 2 desktops per row and more than 1 row, the overview won't show them. You go into grid view for that, which is why the default is hitting overview 2x takes you to the grid.
You only see desktops in the overview if you have 1 row or if you only have 1 desktop per row.
@@Chr0n0s38 But Plasma 5 does show them when configured that way. That's why I don't belive its intended behavior. Because it works in plasma 5. And not Plasma 6. And there's nothing in the changelog for overview that says this behavior was changed. I think the devs are telling you its intended becuase they don't understand the problem.
@@matthewmoore757 I think it is intended because the grid view takes on that functionality. If I have 2 rows with 4 desktops each then I expect to only see 4 desktops in a row. Seeing 8 in a row in one place is inconsistent. With the grid view now being tied in with the overview there is now a way to actually show the full grid the way you expect it to appear without wasting a ton of space.
I like Brodie's content and watch his videos frequently, the problem with his KDE video is that he went in looking for a 1:1 replacement for the system he already had which is, and I have no other way to put this, stupid. Add that to he many other user-related(not KDE's fault) problems and you get the video he made.
I've been using KDE6 on Arch without any issues, so, what gives?
A question, and I am not joking or trolling, why do you (or anyone for that matter) like Broadies videos. He is soooo smug all the time, kinda thinks he always knows better, and that has really been what I took from watching him years before this disaster of incompetence.
Only difference is that this time someone with actual knowledge points out how wrong he is. And this is really not the first time he does something stupid all while being smug, and even in videos where he is completely right, I just can´t stand his smugness and know that his information is always to be taken with a grain of salt. He seems like the most incompetent big Linux RUclipsr, but he also is one of the most arrogant. And I really tried to like him at some point but no, no way. And this is all fine and personal preference, but I hate that he has influence over people, seeing people on Reddit referencing to this mess of a video from him to point out that Plasma 6 is not good.
Edit: The least he could do is make a video addressing this, admitting that he messed up, and best case also take the video down to not misinform people anymore than he already has. When he said "more people should install Plasma like me" and than completely messing up, that´s the point where you have to make amends, set things straight. But this way he is just hurting the reputation of Plasma, which is hurting the whole FOSS community in general.
@@CobAAOffThis is pretty old comment, but I 100% agree. He didn't even bothered to research anything before making that video. Utter embarrassment
@@CobAAOff I really dislike his content, as you said he is a smug and always overreacts to non-issues, he is always negative.
Having different workspaces on different monitors would be amazing.
Yeah, I've been requesting that for years!
When he says "If we press "Super+T" which should be enabled by default" @10:10 he's saying "This should be the default shortcut you can also use". As an Australian I understood his intent, I can understand how he was misunderstood though.
I'm pretty sure that's the default shortcut though...
@@niccoloveslinux yeah he’s not suggesting a change, “should” doesn’t always mean “I am making a suggestion/critique” it can also mean “our experiences are probably similar”
In this case "should" is intended as "unless you/your Distributor changed this, meta-T does...)
@@ewatfred I personally interpret the "should" as "I think it is". This is what I think the intent was.
But I'm not an Australian.
@@thingsiplay that’s fair! However it’s more like “in a perfect scenario, your install should be the same as mine” as he can’t guarantee it will be, but it SHOULD be.
13:00 XFCE also does the same thing where all monitors change virtual desktop. I don't know if I've ever actually seen a system that does what Brodie is describing.
window managers basically only do per-screen virtual desktops, so it's the other way around in that space
So does MATE's window management. Brodie is expecting standalone WM standards on DEs.
Idea: the KDE welcome scree. (The first boot popup) should probably have just a few but very important keyboard shortcuts and an explanation of them. Just a few, but stuff like the Meta + W for the overview (that should probably change to Meta + O for overview but ok) should be mentioned. Since overview came out lots of KDE users still don't know it exists. Another must known would be Alt + Space. Maybe two or three more. Useful.
I'm pretty sure Polonium didn't work at the time Brodie did his initial run through Plasma 6. I had tried it early on and every time I moved a window plasma crashed. A few days later updates fixed it, but I'm guessing Brodie might not have tried reinstalling Polonium before making this video.
I tried Polonium recently and I didn't like it compared to tiling window managers. I'm sure it will get better over time, but it didn't do the job for me.
Nicco, I've used all kinds of operating systems: MS-DOS, Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, 2000, XP, 7, 8, 10, 11, FreeBSD, Mandriva, and Ubuntu (since the days they gave away CDs). In recent years, I've mainly used Linux Mint for its stability and security, and because I don't like rolling releases (yes, I've tried Arch with Hyprland and different environments). But Plasma 6... my God, it made me switch from Mint and Windows. I moved to Fedora 40 KDE spin, and it's honestly the most beautiful and my favorite so far.
The only thing... it would be great to have a button in the theme settings to switch between dark and light themes based on the time of day.
I used Windows for Spacedesk to use my Boox Note Air 1 e-ink Android tablet as a secondary monitor. I haven't figured out how to replace that in Plasma 6 + Wayland + Fedora yet. KDE Connect doesn't let me use it as a secondary display.
The fact that KDE has did so much efforts to push and keep continuing with the cube, just explains that they like gimmicks in the name of "its so much customizable omg wow".
Your comment about Plasma-Meta is correct; it is what gets installed if the user chooses KDE as the DE when running archinstall from the iso. Unfortunately the Arch packagers have chosen to include Discover in that (which is not necessarily included). It also gets you Kate, Konsole and Dolphin, so it is still very barebones (great). I chose to install desktop and add on top of that, but hey, that's me (I do the same with tumbleweed). As for all this tiling: i use a WM for that. And otherwise I think Polonium could fit the bill. Will be interesting to see how Cosmic addresses that. All in all Plasma 6 is stellar, of course there are things to fix and improve, but overall a great experience1 Thanks for that!
5:42 I love KDE the most out of any desktop environment, and I wouldn't replace it with anything, but I disagree with this hard. Error messages of ANY kind, even if it's something as indecipherable to the layman as a specific memory address failure location, allow people to quickly troubleshoot things and makes bug reports easier to narrow down/less common, since a relatively new user who is not familiar with the terminal, or just simply thinks you should have a GUI to avoid the terminal as much as possible, can go "ahhhh, the reason this isn't working is not because the desktop is buggy, it's because of user error. I need to install this dependency and I'll be okay."
Keep in mind, even if you _do_ think it's totally cool to use the terminal to install things (I mean, why else would you be on arch), you may not always know the dependency name even if you know _how to_ install dependencies. Also you'd need to know the exact application name in the terminal in order to bring that menu up and troubleshoot it in the way you consider ideal.
If a program crashes it is usually shown in the Notification Center, at least on my install. Clicking the notification will show you more details.
The thing is, having a broken install is not really a valid error. It's not even the program's error, it's an error of the distro that installed you a broken KDE. Expecting programmers to consistently test for these conditions all over all applications and displaying them nicely is unreasonable
The Edit mode issue ...
Another classic case of nomenclature and communication ...
If there are different ways to edit something, why would they be called identically?
How about:
- panel edit mode [or simply `edit panel`]
- desktop edit mode [or simply `edit desktop`]
- general edit more [or simply `edit environment`]
Clear communication, clear understanding
Not so clear communication, not so clear understanding
Regardless of Brodie`s reason for his `complaint`, what can be taken away from that is that communication may be confusing if not used intelligently !
While I really like Brodie's content, this is one video I find myself on the opposite side with him more often then not. Especially, the KDE tiling, which I *love*. As a person that literally grew up with KDE, floating windows are natural to me and I could never get the hang of tiling window managers (it must be a mental block in my brain). But KDE tiling is a perfect medium between floating and tiling.
Of the distros I have kicking around, Nobara is the only one still on Plasma 6. It's been rough. I'm not sure what is going on but it seems like something the distros are doing or not doing that causes an unfortunate string of issues that doesn't even let me get past log in screen when plasma 6 is installed...except on Nobara. 🤷
I am a creature of habit; I've been using GNOME since well before GNOME 3 was released. Although I've attempted to switch to KDE a few times in the past, it never quite felt like home. This may have been due to not dedicating enough time to customize it. I think it's time to give it another try, committing more time to tailor it to my liking. It looks pretty sweet.
I watch Brodies content for a bit of surface level coverage of whatever droll drama is doing the news rounds that week so I don’t have to spend any of my life reading about it. He’s not a place I’d go for any topic requiring any actual level of technical knowledge, nuance, etc. He knows the algorithm rewards people who yell hot takes in to a microphone to create a dumpster fire in the comment section.
Please do something about touchpad gestures for switching between workspaces virtual desktops. It seems that a two finger swipe in the y Axis is the only gesture to switch between virtual desktops. It would have been better if we were able to edit gestures
5:40 Given how configurable and modularized Linux can be, missing dependencies is not a super rare situation to be in.
The UI shouldn't necessarily bombard you with error alerts, but there could be a placeholder page that could at least say that something is missing, especially if pages can be modules as packages.
My main issue with the KDE tiling features that you can access with Meta+T is there is no good keyboard only way to use it, it's very mouse heavy which for me defeats the point of tiling.
I use the meta arrow key combos to snap windows to halves, quarter and full screen all the time. If setting up the 'zones' in Meta+T replaced the normal quadrants and using the Meta + arrow keys once you can customized these splits now moved the windows between custom splits that you be much more intuitive in my view. I would have the default split you see when you hit Meta+T be the 4 quadrants as this corresponds to the current window snapping you get with Meta+arrows.
It would be great for this to Include things like the ability to expand to multiple zones with multiple/combined keystrokes like what happens when you have a window in the top or bottom quadrant on one side and you tap the left or right arrow, depending on the screen edge the window is next to, and it expands to fill the vertical space. e.g. If I put a window in the bottom right with Meta+Down+Right then tap Meat+Right it expands up to fill the whole right side of my screen. If I'd edited my splits to have 3 on the right side of my monitor I'd expect the window to expand up 1 zone and occupy about the bottom 2/3rds of the right hand side of my screen, repeating this would fill the whole right side.
Basically I think the current 'semantics' of Meta+Arrow keys would map just fine on the the splits and it would be great to see them integrated.
I hope someone sent Brodie this video and he actually watches it lol
What sucks is not that he installed the wrong packages to begin with, but that the package naming doesn't use proper semantics to let someone know what is inside. KDE Application Bundle would be a lot more meaningful than KDE Gears. Meta package might have meaning for package maintainers, but if you don't know what a meta package is, it means nothing
If you use arch and don't know what a meta package is then you shouldn't use arch.
Brodie has tens of thousands of subscribers and people donate hundreds of dollars a month to him because he portrays himself as an authority on open-source and Linux - he should know what a meta-package is.
As a normie (Kubuntu user) I agree.
No wonder why it doen't work when I try to purge the GnomeDE and reinstall the Plasma to reset the mess I created. It's because I reinstall the plasma-desktop because I thoght it was the whole DE.
yeah so that nobody new will ever use arch @@Jokerlevin
@@rodrigo.55being new doesn't exclude you from reading the archwiki. In fact that's the first thing you read in order to understand what meta package is
I do think it would be nice if kde had optional auto tiling, to where you could have windows appear full screen. If you open another one, it will split down like the longest length of the hovered window. Or if you take a window out of tiling, it simply is floating now, and you can later put it back into tiling the same way you do now, but it dynamically sticks to other windows.
right click desktop > "Edit Desktop.."
right click panel > "Edit Panel.."
I've installed plasma-meta as is suggested by Arch wiki. No issues.
I am tiling wm user, my biggest issue was how to setup
- switch to desktop with Meta+number
- push window to desktop with Meta+Shift+number
I've had the stuttering thing and I installed plasma correctly. I just didn't file a bug report, since I forgot and switch between environments (I have more than one). I'm on AMD not an Nvidia system (which already has a a bug for it I think). I saw a similar bug but for Plasma 5. Would opening the bug for 6 be a duplicate or not?
Another instance of user error: attempted installation of ARCH
I like KDE, I am grateful for the work you guys are doing. I am fine with KDE tiling being a port of Windows' FancyZones, that is what I personally was looking for anyway. While the tiling talk did feel a little bit more about his personal taste, there are some good points made in the video I feel. In my experience, crash notifications appear normally, so silent errors do sound a little bit weird. I am running normal KDE installations on Fedora and Kubuntu, I don't think I miss dependencies to confirm this... But I am going to disagree on the "silent errors are fine" opinion. Even though I am fine with using terminal if I have an important process to do, I would rather want to see if there is an error happening, without having terminal open. I understand a lot of software crashes without a trace. I also understand you don't want to tire users with unknown errors and warnings, but I don't always have terminal open and a lot of users won't either.
About the Edit Modes, when I first came to KDE from Windows, I also got confused by separate Edit Modes. That specific problem feels like a naming problem. Metapackage problem sounds like that package might be named vaguely, too. Since KDE Plasma is "KDE Desktop Environment", it doesn't sound that off-base to think "plasma-desktop" package would be a minimal install, in my opinion. I know that Brodie is a more advanced user, so him doing this kind of mistake feels weird, but people do weird mistakes sometimes. Even experts...
My desktop stutters sometimes with effects, I have restart plasma to fix it.
My biggest problem is KDE not using group permissions for the file manager, that is mega annoying.
Regarding the camera issue - I can't be sure but it looks like a hardware thing, some just reports fake hardware to your OS, either due to technicalities of how it works or due to problems. For example my monitor is connected to my GPU through an adapter, which makes it report an additional fake monitor, and a fake sound card to my OS. The same issue on any Linux DE and on Windows.
Thank you for a really funny video! I like Brodie but he messed this one up. I think the Arch wiki is partly to blame though.
I really want to like plasma but I find the settings confusing. I think part of the problem is that only part of it is translated to my language so I don't know what language to search in and what things are called. I end up having to google it when I want to change my settings. That is not a good exeriece.
My only issue in plasma is differently very little right nowt this being a issue that I've also had to witness from kde 5 as well (When you grab a full screen window it has two behavior it either grabs the top left corner or the same spot depending on if the application was already full screen at startup) little stuff like that. However, some builds did crash before the 6.0.3 version for me. I don't get the why bodie didn't do more trouble shooting. Thanks for the work on the kde desktop environment and keep up the work much love!
"Arch user complains about bloat and breaks his own system by refusing to install needed components, and then proceeds to complain about how his system is broken." - is the most Arch user thing ever.
To be honest I blame this on the Arch package maintainers. They should had correctly set up all dependencies for all KDE packages. I am kinda fed up with users complaining about broken KDE installs just because their distro didn't set up the required dependencies correctly. Believe or not, many people install the "plasma-desktop" as if it was the whole KDE environment. Many people especially Arch users think any "meta" package is full of bloat and avoid it like the plague. Key packages like the plasma-desktop should literally also pull the whole base kde system with it as dependencies. Brodie should know better because of well, who he is, but also the distro maintainers should do better too. These distro maintainers problems fcks up many distros...
Also the Arch wiki should be more clear. It says you can install plasma-desktop for a more minimal install. It should say you won't get all dependencies.
Will the grid functionality from 5.27 get recreated on 6 at some point?
- activate grid from screen edge
- have the virtual desktops [for ex. 4] appear in 1 row on the pager, but still appear as a 2x2 grid when grid is activated. ->It was called automatic layout I think. [It works like this on cinnamon too]
The new way to manage virt desktops with the overview, with only horizontal dimension, and no mouse wheel navigation I guess is quite ok especially for those with newer laptops and new generation trackpads, but not really usable for those with older laptops, who like the mouse instead of keyboard-focused navigation
About wayland session:
- the 'roll up / shade' windows feature doesn't work. looks like it never will, so probably best to just remove it as an option in wayland session
- window rule to have an application open on a specific desktop does't work. same suggestion as above; if it's not going to be worked on, why not just get rid of it? we''ll get over it
to be clear- if nothing changes, I'd still be a content kde user.
Lol. Nicco vs Brodie. Lets goooooooo.
(Love all your work guys, everyone play nice)
Great vid, glad to see you again!
Just a slight comment on the background music/audio. It sounds like you got some lofi ambience there, which is generally a good idea. Problem is, that ambience contains something like sound of rain, wind or something along those lines. And when that stuff is at low volume, constantly in the background, it just sounds like a hiss from bad audio gear.
This just makes it sound like you have a bad mic, and makes the video less pleasant to watch.
My suggestion for future is to use music without the "natural ambience", so there is no rain or wind noise.
The application launcher thing is valid ... yes, it is not meant to be used and Brodie did, but on the widgets panel on the left, nothing is said that certain applets work in certain areas of the desktop!
That means three is an issue with either the way it is presented or the way a widget is described.
There are many ways to make that better ... such as categories, warning messages, etc
Think about that for a second ...
If I have 10 widgets on the panel, 8 work on the desktop and 2 work only on the task bar ... how would I know about that?
Btw one gripe I have with the new workspace overview/ switcher is that when you arrange workspaces as a grid the "strip" on the side or top that shows all the workspaces doesn't show up anymore :( I had to make my workspaces a vertical line, which is... fine, but I do like my grid 🥺(i should report this as an actual bug but I've not had the spoons to figure out how and where yet)
I think that Plasma 6 is a great release. As a longtime Ubuntu(gnome) user, I am considering switching to KDE. And I have not encountered any bugs during my tests. Only some missing or not perfectly implemented functions:
- the online accounts are a mess and only work with a lot of manual adjustments
- no panel / dock in the overview
- it is not possible to display the same panel on all monitors
- I notice in some other places that some polishing is still missing (it was never annoying)
I commented about most of those complaints on Brodie's original video and i still expects him to do a retraction video in the bain of "oops i missed these obvious things" but he didn't yet. Maybe he will in reply to Nicco.
I do think there is a little much built in, sometimes I do something silly and plug in a monitor while my computer is running and it thinks it's a laptop and treats that monitor as an external monitor from that point on and every time I wake my computer it asks me what to do with it haha, my fault for doing something that you should never do but it is a bit odd.
Ill use plasma the day it looks more polished and complete, right now(and basically all plasma versions) it looks like the devs started and stopped halfway for the user to do the finishing job-that's not "customizability" sorry. You do your part and then let the user do as they please, be it better or worse. A good example would be-the latest floating dock panel/taskbar. Its good as it is but you can take it way beyond, it was so whacky before.
Niccolo, I suggest you to make some small changes in the ui.
1. The gray coloured windows and top bar looks really bad and old or legacy.
# should be replaced with a light transparency with blur and slight system colour tint.
2. The default icons look a little too weird.
# should be slightly rounded and less like of the weirdness.
3. Sound effects have been improved.
# they are fine but can be improved for better user experience.
4.The theme looks too legacy and inconsistent
# The windows and buttons and the tabs and the general style should be improved and rounded.
5. The animations are also not very well done. Like the floating app menu default animation and system tray animation clearly starts or collapses at a bit of height and the animations are also not that smooth.
# Just a little more detail on ui and ux along with the animations are required.
6. The settings app.
# Just organize everything into separate menus. Like system, appearance & theme, network, display, about etc.
7. The system tray (action panel) doesn't look modern.
# They should have pill icons with settings and suppose if the Bluetooth is turned on, the Bluetooth icon should change colour if Bluetooth in on.
After 3 years with Plasma I decided to try out Hyprland (part of the motivation was the death of window shading, I relied on that thing _a lot_ ) and I kinda agree with Brodie on some points (at least feature wise).
Per-monitor desktop/workspace is just so much better than global, I want that in Plasma sooooooo bad! One monitor is pretty much just dedicated for Discord and Spotify or whatever and I just pin those windows because I don't want to lose them when I go to another VD
Pinning a window to "all desktops" is a simple workaround to get the (quite annoying to me but maybe useful to others) GNOME behaviour of "only your primary screen has virtual desktops". If you stop and start your session a lot, you can make a window rule for these windows.
Other than that I don't understand why someone would want "per screen virtual desktops" - it's just so much work to manage and what is even the use case?
@@guss77 Same use case as having virtual desktops at all... More organized workflow.
With per-monitor VDs you don't have to pin windows to every VD just so you can always keep an eye on that window, you just don't change the VD of that monitor until you have a reason to. It still gives you the full use case of having multiple monitors without compromising virtual desktops.
In Plasma I pretty much _have_ to pin Discord (and made a rule for it) so I could always chat with friends regardless of what desktop I was on, but this pretty much locked that monitor to only be a "discord monitor". In Plasma 5 I could "just" shade the window and reveal whatever apps I had below it, but shading is not being saved so that will no longer work, plus it was very much not convenient, so really that monitor was just being used for one or 2 apps.
On Hyprland I have 9 desktops and controls them super easily with the numpad, I don't have to worry about missing chat if I go to my "projects" desktop because that desktop is _only_ for my main display, and if I needed to jot something down, either for my projects desktop or whatever else, I can quickly change the previously-Discord-locked monitor to my notetaking desktop, then switch back without ever having to change the desktop of ALL my monitors.
I’m using KDE plasma as my desktop from 5.20, I has been using KDE in days of 3.5
I never faced issues described in this video. Maybe because I am user and don’t do experiments. I am too old and need to switch to lxqt
I loved plasma 6 and admire your work
I honestly have no idea why anyone watches Brodie. I’ve seen enough of those kind of streams.
*praying hands emoji
Hello Nicco, I'm using Sway and I love using Dolphin file manager, since the last actualization dolphin doesn't launch files through the mimetypes, do you now how to fix it?.
Aside from needed bugfixes, my only 2 problems I reall care about is not being able to asign monitors to different workspaces and not being able to limit global themes on systems I make for clients. Other than that, I still prefer Plasma.
The music at the end is slapping, who's the author?
Yeah, we want to know! It's great!
It isn't about partnering with other RUclipsrs but watching "naive" users, to discover, where they struggle and if there are legit rough spots or not. Bug reports are great for bugs, but less ideal for users struggling with UX issues. Partnering with RUclipsrs has the advantage of being able to document the UX struggles in video without you setting up a lab to record the interaction, and as a side benefit, it provides content for both channels. I heard some RUclipsrs are constantly searching for content ideas ;)
Better Title: KDE Dev Reacts To "WM Shill Complains About KDE Plasma 6"
what was the original title?
Better Title: KDE Dev Complains To "WM Shill Complains About KDE Plasma 6"
complains about **
"KDE developer reacts to smug idiot" would also fit perfectly
@@CobAAOff yeah, all problems he had were basically just because he only installed the desktop and expected stuff to work (and on arch, also!)
Overall, I like Plasma 6, except one thing: Desktop Grid. Previously it was a separate thing and now it became part of Overview. This is fine, but we cannot assign this new Desktop Grid to a screen edge action, like we could before. We can assign Overview and Present Windows (which duplicates the functionality of Overview), but to trigger Desktop Grid directly, we can only use a keyboard shortcut. Everything else works great, aside from Wayland, but that's not Plasma's fault, but Nvidia's.
6:06 "it does, under terminal which is sensible place" dude, so you're saying KDE should never tell its user because of what dependency anything is failing, and just fail to work. Nice!! KDE will implement a "cube" but its hard for them to implement a high school pop up. Nice, again.
Most stable Arch desktop
Ok kde dev,can we have a app that put back the icon view of the settings panel. Please? I know a lot of people who just love the old design.
I like Brodie and his content, but that one video of his should have been titled, "Why I Still Prefer My Favourite WM". He installed Plasma a way you're not supposed to, and then his complaints were mainly about Plasma not working the way he's used to on his personal WM setup.
I feel Brodie as a power user is maybe going into this not fully considering that KDE is meant to be more easy to use and the defaults and how things are set up are structured in a way to be approachable to people wich much less experience using a computer than him as you hint at in the video.
please, when you refrense a youtube video put the link at the description
Did you make that outro music with AI?
Honesty virtual desktops are always touted as a necessity. Although I think 10% of PC users actually fully understand them, including Windows 10. Making Nicco's comments valid concerns
I guess the naming for the packages is a bit confusing, as "desktop" would usually mean it's good for normal desktop usage, and "meta" in this day and age doesn't mean anything since everyone uses it for anything.
The -meta naming thing is an arch packaging Standard. (A so called metapackage (used by apt and pacman) is a package that Pulls in the necessary dependencies and installs everything necessary to run a DE (or whatever the metapackage is for). There's also groups (pacman) that work similar but do not autoupdate dependency changes
Why not force the Meta packages as Dependencies for plasma-desktop package?
Install something the wrong way
"Why is my Desktop Environment so laggy???"
Tiling WM user moment
Brodie saying programs should tell you what dependencies are missing reminds me of my old college gamedev teacher.
He would tell us that our code should not throw any exceptions or crash, even if the devs didn't provide any objects or parameters needed in the game engine editor. So you have to never assume anything is setup correctly or that you have anything at all to work with, assume you can not rely on absolutely anything. This is kind of the same thing with the dependency thing, you'd have to have a "base" version of every app that would somehow work without any dependencies at all and be able to show you error dialogs that dependencies are missing, without using any external technology or toolkit.
you literally cannot create software without assuming the necessary dependencies are in place. If you had to write fallback for each dependency you would have bloated code with very little logic.
Too much bickering and not enough asking the community. Rather than watching both of you doing this I would rather be voting. I also think this would help the direction things go. No bias I like both of you guys
11:20 wait, that's actually pretty powerful. Why wasn't that advertised more? Scriptable tiling... I feel like whoever wrote the advertising took the wrong examples from Hollywood. Don't cut important scenes
Nicco, I think you should take the "Edit Mode" part more seriously. When I click "Edit Mode" in the desktop menu, all windows minimize, and the "edit" effect highlighting margins and splitters appears on the panel, so I would naturally assume it's a global edit mode where I can edit all panels. This is a design issue.
The silent errors are 100% a bug. If you want people adopting Linux, this is the kind of thing an average user would not know what to do with. Yes, this is an incorrect way of setting up the desktop, but an average user could end up in a similar situation, whether from packages being at wrong versions, distributions failing to properly package things, this is not the only scenario in which a user may encounter a silent crash. Not providing feedback to a user when something is wrong is not only unintuitive, but also disrespectful to the user's time
/* This is a perfect comment
Brodie always wears his *Lucky T-shirtwear* when voicing dissatisfaction with amazing free software. */
needs 1080 :P
Everything is good in Plasma, except google drive integration is broken.
I don't agree that GUI apps shouldn't have to tell the user that the dependency is missing and just silently crash.
Or rather, i agree with it generally, but not in the case of KDE. It's not like a windows environment where it installs the whole package and to miss those dependencies you'd have to go and manually delete the components, so microsoft can allow themselves to assume that the dependency is there and quietly fail if there isn't. KDE has no such privilege. I assume most users are using it preinstalled on the distros that put all the necessary dependencies in there, so it's probably not that big of a problem, but it is a problem and a UX issue nonetheless. If something in your software depends on something that may or may not be there it should be specified in the interface, for example relevant menu items or buttons should be greyed out and inactive with a tooltip that provides you with extra information.
I do agree however that failing to install KDE correctly on your Arch Linux BTW and then criticizing KDE for this is pretty dumb
I always wonder why people think that KDE plasma is so complex when Cinnamon IMO has about the same complexity as plasma these days. so like, why does KDE get all this flack when cinnamon is considered an easy to use distro??
Maybe because of difference in philosophy? KDE is usually advertised as "thinker's" DE, you are supposed to play with it. Cinnamon is advertise as classical "Windows" workflow DE with a robust customization options if needed, you are not really supposed to mess with settings, unless you have some specific issues to solve.
19:51 is he left clicking now?
me confused, so plasma-meta good and plasma-desktop bad?
The full-screen plasma launcher makes not much sense as a desktop widget and is indeed confusing to users, as Brodie demonstrated, and you're laughing about the struggles of an inexperienced Plasma user, or should I say a user that developed callouses yet from these kinds of rough edges, which isn't nice and non-helpful as you just ignore the rough spot and blame the user. Maybe adding a popup hint that can be disabled, like many game tutorial messages, or adding categories, badges, or tags, could smoothen the experience.
16:00 this is so true
Tbf, it's ok to drop a video unedited with minimal preparation but in this case, don't complain to much, or against the installation documentation
I haven't seen all of Brodie's videos, so I could be wrong, but it seems to me that he very often criticizes something that he doesn't really understand.
Look, the video says it all.
If you call something tiling, then a tiling window manager user will expect the same. And no, it's not just autotiling, there are also manual tilers.
Brodie isn't the first nor will he be the last to criticize that. And please don't say polonium, these scripts are cool, but do not compare to a wm in features or stability, it's a plugin that can break with any kde release -> happened with bismuth multiple times.
Short: your feature looks good and useful, good work there! Just, the naming can and will confuse an at least considerable number of people within the FOSS space.
+1
What was the song at the end?
I sent you a email with possible bug via email idk is it possible security flaw🤐.
Brody is the one guy I wish were a Windows fan.
This guy is a Karen male version, i remember an old video of his beefing with other tubers, also break things and blames external factors, he's weird, with that said KDE plasma still needs work, the positive thing is i see improvements👏🏽
what`s the song at the end ?
So far I love my Plasma 6. Great job and thanks to the team. Polonium still doesn't cut it for me, but that's not made by KDE. I wish we had an in house alternative to Bismuth which was compatible with Wayland and Plasma 6.
Sorry but i don't agree that errors should only go into the terminal, at least if we ever hope to get more users onto Linux. The general public hates the terminal and most likely has no idea when a window just suddenly disappears, almost feeling gaslit by the environment because there is no error and no hint where to look for clues about what's going on. It's even worse than the infamous MS bsod because there is nothing to google. I can sympathize if it's harder to implement on the code side but a user will always expect some kind of feedback when something is wrong.
About arch single-vs-meta package install, aren't effects considered part of the desktop? If i activate an effect that's available to me(listed anywhere in the settings i.e the alt-tab switcher) then i most likely do expect it working without more additional packages and if a file is missing then it's a bug. Just like qt3d was a bug not packaged as a dependency.
Agreed about edit mode, it makes sense to me and everyone who has been using for a while because we got used to it but new users don't realize the 2 modes are totally separate.
Polonium: I was a WM user too and switched to KDE (for now).
Actually I agree in some parts with Nicco and with Brodie. Watching Brodie daily content. I also installed Polonium Kwin script to automatic tile windows, because not having auto tiling is unusable on any system. The problem is, that Polonium is incomplete and still buggy. I'm not complaining about the Polonium developer, he does what he can do and improves it over time. But at the moment, this is still a wonky experience.
Can I use it on poco x5 pro
I'm sorry, but I fully disagree with the idea that there is no responsibility for a DESKTOP to give you error messages. Even if it is just the same stuff that would have been in the console, just within a separate window. The desktop could very clearly open windows and do things and so it could have easily displayed an error message for a missing linked function or sth. For example, for me the Linux console is inaccessible once a desktop starts, because NVIDIA is stupid. I have no way to debug through the console, and therefore no way to actually debug an issue like this. And saying "Oh just install the meta package" doesn't fix anything, because what happens (like in LTTs case) when the package manager or any other part of the system screws up and deletes required dependencies?
TLDR I very much agree with Brody: Telling a user nothing is ALWAYS a bug.
That outro deserves more volume. crank that :)
"Man this window manager sucks, I can't even configure a wallpaper. I have to install a serrate application for that. Window managers suck, I don't understand why so many people use them!"
I'm not always knowledgeable nor interested in Brodie's subject matter, but when I am knowledgeable he's often misunderstood the subject or completely missing the point and in those cases the comment section is usually more interesting than the video. I watched his Plasma 6 one too and stopped watching it when he was complaining about not getting into panel edit mode when he hadn't actually selected the panel, I don't think the video deserved any response at all to be honest. I use Gentoo stable here so will be on Plasma 5 for a while yet which I don't mind at all, with Gentoo, stable is what you get, however I have a Neon VM and keep an eye on what's happening on that and I think you guys have done a great gob and thank you so much for that.