I had to reupload this video since it had an export glitch and when I pasted the description it messed the travel survey link up! BUT HERE IT IS!: my.trovatrip.com/public/l/poll/micthevegan
Hey Mic, when you said 'excess protein being peed out' at the 3:36 mark, you can't pee out protein unless you have kidney damage/failure as protein in urine is a very bad sign that the kidneys aren't doing their best. That's just a little bit I caught though!
So, the peed out which causes the color to the toilet is a sign of kidney problem so will lead to kidney stone and kidney disease? So, ya are saying it does not pee out since protein is still inside but the process of kidney cause repel of water which causes color comes out as lower water so there is a block of water within as need higher absorb of water to decrease the color of pee, so still, a problem since you are drinking more to counterbalance the color which a marker of a problem with kidney so a block in the kidney?
He says it’s an uric coating on the urinals, so I suppose he’s just shortening his comment and he knows proteinuria is the bad way for the body to eliminate proteins, otherwise such protein excess will always become urea, right? Uric compounds
@@absolutezeromusicofficial no, this vegan one is all lies. All you vegans will be changing your tune one day when you reach your health crisis. it’s just weird to see how stubborn you are now, not listening to anyone. Will you remember the voices of reason sounding now when you’re forced to change your ways in the future? Nope, because if you aren’t listening now, how can you be forming a memory of if for later. Your ego is too strong to allow the rest of your brain to listen to reason. That or you’re so mad at how humans treat animals you’d rather slowly off yourselves nutritionally. I don’t even know why we try to tell you. There’s too many humans on the planet anyways, veganism drastically shortening lifespans is a good thing. I suppose it’s just out of avoiding future guilt that we warn you now. Good luck vegans 👍
I am a pharmacist and a biotechnologist and not an expert in diet ! But you have to understand proteins are made of 20 amino acid out of these some are essential amino acids as we don’t produce them ourselves and some are more needed than others . Unfortunately to popular belief not all you eat is absorbed and as you might know plants amino acids absorb less as some are entrapped in fibers or they are glucoronized in away that utilizing them are not possible for humans . This is a different story for meat! Thats why you see animals eating plant have to eat multiple times more than a carnivore animal to get the nutrition they need . This applies to minerals as well . You can look up Iron absorption rate as an example . I am not saying being vegan is bad , i am just saying the fact that you are vegan doesn’t change the reality of science .
It is true not all you eat is absorbed. Its why the content of consumption is often reflected in stool samples and not uniformly standard. However, from what I'm aware of, the concepts behind fiber's function in the digestive tract is that it actually serves both to increase time spent in the intestines (by slowing traversal) as well as decreasing absorption speed. It is not actually as 'entrapped' as you suggest, as during processing it is chewed. A more accurate depiction is that fiber proportionally reduces absorption, not necessarily reducing absorbtion heavily in specific amino acids which is likely how people are interpreting your statement. An argument can be made about how proteins can bind, and as you mention proteins being glucoronized (a relationship I am unfortunately not familiar with, so I will not contest), but this is not reflected by outcome data to effectively negate said dietary pattern. Furthermore, it is a very well known phenomenon within the vegan community in regards to bio-availibility and food pairings, such as in regards to iron, (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20226993/) where for in vivo studies with rats, " The presence of both garlic and iron led to a 2-fold increase in plasma iron and a 50% increase in liver iron as compared with iron alone". There is also the theory of pepper increasing overall absorption by agitating the intestinal wall, allowing easier passage through the intestinal barrier. Furthermore, the dietary pattern again does not reflect broad trends in literature reviews (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8003004/)--"In conclusion, although the participants were eating a plant-based diet, the majority had sufficient iron status. Female vegans and vegetarians of reproductive age are at risk of low iron status and should have their iron status monitored". I should mention however, that I have seen studies that do show an elevated risk among plant-based dieters. The common trend however is that they are fruitarians or raw food dieters. Secondly, yes carnivores often do not need to put in the work of metabolizing plants, and often in pure volume require higher levels of consumption. However, this is because they process plants, and must break down cell walls through manual grinding in addition to lengthy gastro-intestinal processing. Being facetious here, humans cook food. I only stumbled across this video from RUclips recommendations, and am surprised people are still disagreeing years later.
@@maverick5989 unfortunately dear maverick, nobody responds because this is an old video that covers a topic that vegans have had to rebuke time and time again. Again, I urge you to review the literature on this issue and understand the hierarchy of scientific evidence, which lists mechanism below epidemiological data in regards to outcomes. That is to say, understanding a small mechanism within the biochemical process does not in fact predict its final result.
he didnt say the vegan diet was bad, he just said, its much harder and is not very effective at hitting the amino acids required to break down the protein properly since plants lack a lot of the amino acids required, so it requires a lot of mixing around of other different proteins to hit those metrics, which for the average person, they arent doing that
Plants dont lack of those amino acids, they have different levels of them, that's why in a well diverse diet, all the aminoacids are in the levels we need.
@@CorolaImperialCompared to meat they're absolutely lacking. I lack the strength to lift 1000 pounds like Eddie Hall, that don't mean I don't have strength. Lack and without are entirely different my friend.
Uric scale is not excess protein being "peed out", if you have protein in your urine, you have kidney damage. So why are stadium urinals caked in uric scale? Uric acid is made when the body breaks down purines. Beer contains very high levels of Purine. When you drink alcohol and no water you become dehydrated. The concentration of Purines is higher in urine when people become dehydrated. That is why.
Just reviewed that study. Its basically vegetariens patting eachother on the shoulder by peer reviewing each others pro plant epidemiological studies. It referal to referal and three referals into studies in you end up at epidemiological studies. Statistical analysis after another from epidemiological studies. They refer eachother in hopes no one looks into it. I only reviewed the dutch people in the study. Niels and Trusy who are/claim also to be both vegetarian but don't disclose their bias in their papers. Once you see it, it takes so little time to look into more of this bs they pull. It is kind of a big finger to the people who died during the low fat studies in the past in the asylums. Very immoral.
I just would like to add something: For a lot of these studies about red meat and chronic diseases we have to put in perspective that some of them aren't just because of meat, but because of the hormones and heavy process used in the process. I'm not a nutritionist, but my family is almost 100% farmers, and we had a lot of talks showing how bad those things are for human health. And this includes non-organic plants too. You get a lot of heavy metals just by eating some fruit that was grown using agrochemicals. There's a hight correlation of mass usage of those chemicals and multiple disease like cancer. The early development of woman teenages you cited, a considerable amount of this is to blame artificial hormones. About renal disease, sugar is also water soluble, and cause renal problem. I'm not American, but I hear that they have a high carb diet and a sedentary lifestyle, if you don't burn this, some will go out in your urine. At the end of the day, nutrition is a complex thing, and no bold statements can be made. In multiple cultures, people have been eating meat and plants forever and they are doing just fine (me included). The best diet is the one that makes you feel better. I think the only thing we can say for sure is: organic food should be preferred
Wow. I love this! I wish more people got to see your comment. I found his video a little unprofessional in his assertions because the other video makes it clear that plant protein are a suitable option, you just have to eat more of it. its all about the individuals golas and what makes you feel best and this me vs them approach is very irritating. Nutrition is SO complex, and there cannot be one answer as humans are a diverse group of people. thanks for your opinion, a lot of people dont actually have exposure to people who are in food production.
4:39 Mic suggests that there are a "ton" of practical problems associated with DIASS. What he doesn't tell you is that DIASS was preceded by other measures, such as the protein efficiency ration (PER), the net protein retention ratio (NPR), and the protein digestibility corrected amino acid score (PDCAAS). So, the real question is - if DIAAS does actually have practical problems - are its problems characteristic of all such measures, or are its practical problems unique, and do they render it too impractical to use? 5:19 Mic says that DIAAS is "trash" - since Mic hasn't mentioned the other measures of protein quality, he couldn't mean that DIAAS is "trash" in comparison to those measures. So, what could it mean to say it is trash? The UN's FAO doesn't consider it trash, for example (and nor do the authors of the papers he cites, as we shall see). 5:49 The paper in question does not indicate that the results of applying DIAAS to whole diets and plant based diets are "atrocious". The paper actually acknowledges DIAAS' strengths. 5:57 "The digestibility figures come from animal models..." but so too do the figures for the PDCAAS, NPR and PER models. 6:02 "Often they're feeding raw, dry food inappropriately to these animals" The paper doesn't mention the appropriateness of feeding raw or dried food to the pigs - it does however point out that cooking food affects its digestibility, and hence, its DIASS. But that point is also made in the What I learned video. 6:05 "Digestibility depends on the size of the animal..." The paper does not mention animal size, age, or weight, or the effects of over-feeding. 6:16 "and from this paper in the vast majority of figures that they have, they have not prepared these samples in the way that humans would eat them so really they're saying they need new data entirely for human consumption figures." No, that's not at all what the paper says. The paper states in the introduction that "recent studies...do not inform to which extent a specific protein can be digested to meet the human body requirements;" the authors' objective, therefore, is to "broaden the comparison of DIAAS to more protein sources." The text quoted in the video is simply re-stating what was said in the introduction; it absolutely is not saying that all previous, animal research and its results need to be tossed; they are saying that existing data needs to be compared against data generated from human tests - of which there is very little (ileal tests require hooking a hose to one's lower-intestinal tract). 6:30 > 6:43 Mic doesn't say who the "they is" but the 6.25 figure can be found in the first paper he referenced. What the paper says exactly is: "Food-specific nitrogen-to-protein conversion factors have been determined for various foods and can be used for this calculation; however, the FAO does not recommend their use. Instead, it recommends that the generalized nitrogen-to-protein conversion factor be utilized. The generalized factor was set at 6.25 because all proteins were originally estimated to contain 16% nitrogen; however, this varies greatly between proteins." So, the authors' complaint is not with DIAAS; as a method but with the FAO which recommends using the 6.25 conversion factor. The authors do, after all, recognize that other "food specific nitrogen-to-protein conversion factors" exist (i.e., "have been determined"). Thus this is not an indictment against DIAAS; it is a suggestion for how it could be improved. 7:13 > 8:20 No other measure of protein quality, PER, NPR, PDCAAS, has been applied to "whole diets" - because that's not what they're designed to do. They're designed to determine the quality of protein from discrete sources. However, they all agree that the amount of protein that can be utilized can be increased by increasing the amount of the limiting amino acids. No nutritionist has ever said otherwise. The What I learned video even acknowledges this. 8:21 "While I think the scoring is trash..." Except your sources haven't shown that it is "trash" or that it "has a ton of practical problems." 8:27 > 8:34 "to further show how trash it actually is or at least how trashy this misapplication to a plant-based diet is..." Yes, the second paper does indeed say that. Just before it says that, it says: "Based on the 0.5- to 3-year-old scoring pattern, potato and most animal-derived proteins tend to reach the excellent protein quality category (DIAAS ≥100). Soy and whey proteins fall into the high-quality protein range (DIAAS = 75-99). Gelatin, corn, wheat, hemp, fava bean, oat, pea, canola, rapeseed, lupin, and rice proteins lie in the no quality claim category (DIAAS
With just a little thought it is pretty obvious that the DIAAS approach to scoring a food based on the EAA it has the least of is incredibly misleading and leads to ridiculous and counterproductive conclusions. Imagine if we rated the tools in your toolbox based on how good each was for the 9 most important handyman practices (hammering, screwing, painting, etc.). Every tool would be rated as having zero or near zero value, because paintbrushes can't drive screws and a hammer is lousy at painting walls. Similarly, imagine giving every food an omnibus rating based on which vitamin or mineral it provides the least of: Almost every or every plant and animal food would receive a score of zero. This is not to slam the scientists who designed the DIAAS, but using the global score for a food is unscientific and idiotic--unless your sole purpose was to design an animal feed using only the best all-round protein source (and for some strange reason you could only use one). Also, the scores for different EAAs are useful. "Watching Mic reminds me Christian apologists trying to explain away science that threatens their worldview" Your long detailed and defensive reply reminds me more of the Christian apologists. The WIL video Mike is referring to appears to have been designed out of either profound ignorance of the science of whole diets or out of an attempt to discredit plant foods and elevate animal foods (a trend also seen in WIL's absurdly misleading videos about the environmental impacts of beef). Yes, people eating just plant protein need to be aware of the EAA profiles of different plant foods, but in the real world, people get healthier when they replace animal fat and protein with whole food plant fat and protein.
This is not debunking, you cannot sight a study then possit without évidence the faults in it. It is well established that meat protein is more "bio available" as the protein recepters are not out competed by a bunch of surperfluous molecules surounding the actual protien molécule as plant protein has.
@@HealingLifeKwikly nope, there are no studies that show meat is harmful, zéro. Observational studies have been done of people self reporting, that is it. There are zéro, let me repeat, zéro interventional studies that show meat is harmful in anyway. If there are any , i am happy to have a look.
@@Savantjazzcollective Speaking as a researcher, here is a point regarding quality research that confuses many people. Randomized controlled nutrition studies can usually only be three years long at most but major chronic diseases develop over 10-70 years. Thus, good observational studies are the correct and superior research design for studying nutrition and most aspects regarding rates of chronic diseases from different diets. Randomized controlled studies literally can't be conducted to answer those questions. And good observational studies clearly and repeatedly provide diets dominated by whole plant foods are healthier overall in the long run. RCTs DO show harmful effects of things like saturated animal fat in the short run (inflammation, insulin resistance, raising LDL levels), but it takes the longer term studies to tell us whether and how that translates into more disease. Take care.
@@HealingLifeKwikly 1stly) many long term observational studies have been done in past years with varying results. For example European long term studies vs Asian long term studies. The result? Asian consumers of meat lived longer and European eaters of meat lived shorter lives. Why is this? What about healthy/unhealthy user bias? Do vegans eat often at fastfood joints? probably not, I think its because they are already cognisant of their physical health, where as typically overweight Europeans don't care. 2ndly) We have very few quality observational studies (self reporting) and the studies that might have quality data show that eating less has the biggest affect, not what we eat. I just cannot put my faith in the usual narrative, when people are only getting sicker not healthier as it relates to reducing meat consumption. Carbs and oils are the problem imo. all the best.
@@Savantjazzcollective When you control for other factors, including SES, high red and processed meat is consistently linked to poorer health and greater mortality. The only place you find the reverse is in places where people were literally malnourished, and the meat filled some gaps. However, that is not the situation in developed nations. "What about healthy/unhealthy user bias?" This is controlled along with lots of other background variables. Furthermore, experimental studies have revealed many of the mechanisms by which more meat and more animal fat causes more disease, including promoting inflammation, insulin resistance, raising LDL/promoting plaque formation, toxic chemicals found at high levels in animal fat, and so on. "We have very few quality observational studies" There are about a million nutrition studies a year, and plenty of excellent observational studies amongst them. "I just cannot put my faith in the usual narrative, when people are only getting sicker not healthier as it relates to reducing meat consumption. Carbs and oils are the problem imo" Unfortunately, the research is very clear that many factors drive disease, including more saturated animal fat, more added sugars, more animal protein, more refined carbs, more oils, and more chemicals the body didn't evolve to process. It is ALL of the above and we have excellent research showing that. But you have to differentiate between healthy and unhealthy carbs to have any shot at understanding healthy nutrition--eating lots of refined carbs make you get sicker but eating lots of whole food carbs (truly WHOLE foods) is super healthy. Take care.
You can`t say plant proteins are superior. when a 6 ounce steak has about 42 grams of protein with a complete amino acid chain. you got to eat about 50 ounces of broccoli to get the same amount. Plus you got to eat some other vegetable with it in order for you to get all essential amino acids. giving the only downside to eating meat is some inflammation and an increase risk of disease. Can`t be that bad considering you don`t need to eat as much since meat is so nutrient dense. It is safe to say most people eat way more meat and animal products then they truly need on a daily basis. It has been proven that diets like Mediterranean ones are very healthy and have low risk of any of these problems. As we are omnivores after all with similar digestive tracts to pigs, it quite eerily weird how similar our biology is to that of a pig. Cannibals have been known to claim humans taste like pork, one tribe calls humans long pig.
This out of the blue, but do you think ppl who practiced Abrahamic religions knew something about pigs tasting eerily similar to that of a human. And that’s why they condemn it?
Your argument makes a flawed comparison between plant proteins and meat by using broccoli as an example of plant protein. Here's why the reasoning is incorrect: 1. Misleading comparison: Broccoli is not a significant source of protein. It is a vegetable rich in vitamins, minerals, and fiber, but it doesn't provide a comparable amount of protein to meat. You are making an extreme comparison between a 6-ounce steak (which provides around 42 grams of protein) and broccoli, which would require an impractical amount (50 ounces) to match the protein content. 2. Plant-based proteins: Vegans do not rely on vegetables like broccoli for their protein needs. Instead, they consume plant-based protein sources like soybeans, tofu, tempeh, seitan, lentils, chickpeas, and quinoa, which are complete sources of protein (containing all essential amino acids). These foods are rich in protein and can easily replace meat in a balanced diet. 3. Amino acids in plants: Unlike your argument suggests, it’s not necessary to combine different vegetables to get all the essential amino acids, as many plant-based foods (like soy, quinoa, and buckwheat) already contain complete protein profiles. Vegans can get all essential amino acids from various plant sources throughout the day without needing to combine them in each meal. 4. Nutrient density: While it's true that meat is nutrient-dense, this argument neglects the fact that plant-based diets, when properly planned, can provide all the nutrients the body needs without the health risks associated with excessive meat consumption (such as heart disease or cancer). A well-balanced plant-based diet can be just as nutrient-dense, if not more, due to the high levels of fiber, antioxidants, and lower saturated fats. 5. Inflammation and health risks: The statement that eating meat causes only "inflammation and increased risk of disease" is oversimplified. Research has shown that excessive consumption of red and processed meats is linked to higher risks of chronic diseases such as heart disease, cancer, and type 2 diabetes. A plant-based diet, on the other hand, has been shown to reduce these risks and promote overall health. 6. Omnivore argument: The argument that humans are omnivores and thus should eat meat is based on a simplistic view of evolution. While it’s true that humans are biologically omnivores, modern nutrition and health considerations show that a well-planned plant-based diet can meet all our nutritional needs without the negative health consequences of too much animal product consumption. In summary, your argument is flawed because it compares broccoli, a poor source of protein, to meat while overlooking the rich variety of alternative plant-based protein sources available to vegans. The comparison between the two is misleading and does not account for the full picture of nutrition, amino acids, and the health implications of different diets.
I noticed he made no attempt to debunk the actual nutritionist or Doctor in the original video as well as he quotes a lot of Chinese and European studies which i bet are funded by the World Economic Forum and other Soros interest groups. The Chinese are also not reducing their animal protein consumption but instead increasing it. He also says that the video doesn't mention having a variety of plant proteins to get enough essential amino acids when in fact he does, he just points out that you have to consume twice as many calories to get all the amino acids necessary to make the plant proteins absorbable. The other thing he forgets to mention even though he loves to talk about hormone effect is the amount of phytoestrogen vegans get with their diet. Too much estrogen for both men and women is a bad thing. He also claims that high meat diets cause inflammation and cancer when in reality it's probably all the sugar and carbs people consume with the meat that causes these issues. I bet if his studies compared clean animal protein diets to clean vegan diets you'd see a significant difference in the positive towards animal protein. The initial comment i made about the WEF and Soros is that it's easier to control people when they're fattened up or made stupid. Also leucine contributes to cancer growth but not it's creation. Inflammation and hormones like estrogen create cancer mutations. I see a higher link to vegans who subsist on carbs having poor health and high cancer rates compared to omnivores who eat clean. www.foodnavigator-asia.com/Article/2019/04/29/Protein-powerhouse-Asia-the-key-protein-market-by-2025-with-China-and-India-leading-the-charge www.bbc.com/future/article/20200127-how-a-vegan-diet-could-affect-your-intelligence www.healthline.com/nutrition/sugar-and-inflammation#TOC_TITLE_HDR_8
" he quotes a lot of Chinese and European studies which i bet are funded by the World Economic Forum and other Soros interest groups. " That's a strange conspiracy theory. Peer-reviewed studies have to pass peer review, and the Chinese are doing amazing things in science, so doubting the validity of Chinese studies just because they are from China is both unscientific and racist. "he just points out that you have to consume twice as many calories to get all the amino acids necessary to make the plant proteins absorbable." That's simply not true: Vegans can get all the protein they need without overconsuming calories. Vegans on average are the slimmest group--the only one with a normal average BMI in some studies. "The other thing he forgets to mention even though he loves to talk about hormone effect is the amount of phytoestrogen vegans get with their diet. Too much estrogen for both men and women is a bad thing. " You just mixed up phytoestrogens with estrogens. Eating phytoestrogens BLOCKS the estrogen receptors, so it LOWERS estrogen levels for both women and men (thus lowering cancer risk), without lowering levels of testosterone. "I bet if his studies compared clean animal protein diets to clean vegan diets you'd see a significant difference in the positive towards animal protein." NO. There are a wide variety of mechanisms by which eating more animal protein simply promotes more disease--he walked through some of them in the video. Mic already made a video debunking the story you linked to on vegan diets and IQ. And the research clearly shows that WHOLE food carbs--which is what Mic promotes--REDUCE inflammation and disease.
@@HealingLifeKwikly Oh man taking a classic page out of the SJW playbook by claiming racism and conspiracy theory to discredit an argument super logical. China the Communist country we're potentially going to war with if they invade Taiwan as well as the one that developed a virus that allowed almost every first world nation to turn into a tyrannical police state. That China funds Chinese and European scientists to do a plethora of immoral science. Like weaponizing viruses, cloning humans and trying to push a diet that will enfeeble their enemies to make them easier to conquer and control while making sure their people stay strong and brainwashed into believing they are the chosen race. This rhymes like WW2 Japan. I'm sorry if that's too conspiracy for your liberal idealism. He never proves that in his video because he never shows the part with the Doctor saying that. Also you saying them being the slimmest totally contradicts his comments that vegans aren't malnourished as well as BMI is bull. Show me a body composition study if you want any weight to your argument there. Being slim doesn't equate to better health, way to body shame. Phytoestrogen acts just like regular estrogen except not as potent. Which means you need to consume a lot more to get the same affects which happens in a vegan diet. Look up how much phytoestrogen is in soy. Then you'll know how soy boys happen. As well as there are studies that too much soy can increase breast cancer risk. ruclips.net/video/FTSvLKY7HEk/видео.html www.breastcancer.org/research-news/soy-may-turn-on-genes-linked-to-cancer www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074428/ His mechanism don't account for carbs, sugars, or vegetable oils. Also the animal protein diet has the benefit of history behind it. Humans have consumed animals since they were created and have survived this long. Please tell me again how your hippie dippie 1970s diet will make humans healthier. Herbivores are herbivores for a reason and the same with us omnivores. You're going to use the guy that we are debating about being legitimate to prove one of my points wrong that's like using a word in a definition. What research? You've provided nothing. Don't link him either as his research is already questionable at best. Just a last question here. Where's a link to his little amino acid calculator that shows the vegan diet works and DIAAS is useless? Which I point out he never actually disproved how the lack of amino acids required more food aka the statement from the Doctor.
@@FoolyCooly99 "Like weaponizing viruses, cloning humans and trying to push a diet that will enfeeble their enemies to make them easier to conquer and control while making sure their people stay strong and brainwashed into believing they are the chosen race." If you are serious in believing that nations are weaponizing diets, then your conspiracy theory should focus on the U.S. and European countries because it it the exporting of the "Standard American Diet" that is driving increases in disease all over the world. The best recent research clearly indicates that people are healthier when they replace more of the meat and dairy in their diets with whole plant foods. Mic reviewed some of that research in this video, and none of this is relying on Mic's judgment: Peer-reviewed studies clearly show that replacing meat/animal foods with whole plant foods reduces rates of disease and mortality. For example, “Consuming meat increases the risk of developing heart disease, diabetes, pneumonia, and several other conditions, according to a study published in BMC Medicine. Researchers compared meat intake with adverse health outcomes, including hospitalization and mortality, using data from the UK Biobank study. Those who ate meat three times a week or more had worse health outcomes when compared to those who ate less meat. Results showed higher risks for ischemic heart disease, pneumonia, diverticular disease, colon polyps, and diabetes for every 70 grams of red and processed meat consumed per day. Higher intake of poultry was associated with increased risk for gastroesophageal reflux disease, gastritis and duodenitis, diverticular disease, gallbladder disease, and diabetes. Possible mechanisms for the increased risk for disease include higher intakes of sodium, iron, nitrates and nitrites, bacteria, and saturated fat from consuming meat and higher LDL cholesterol levels and changes in gut microbiota associated with meat consumption. The authors call for additional research on the effects of disease incidence with decreased meat consumption.” Papier K, Fensom GK, Knuppel A, et al. Meat consumption and risk of 25 common conditions: Outcome-wide analyses in 475,000 men and women in the UK Biobank study. BMC Med. 2021;19(1):53-67. doi: 10.1186/s12916-021-01922-9 “Egg consumption increases risk for all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality, according to a study published in the European Journal of Nutrition. Researchers compared egg intake with mortality risk in 20,562 participants with no cancer or heart disease diagnoses from the Moli-sani Study cohort. After a median 8.2 years, those who consumed more than four eggs per week increased their risk of death from all causes, heart disease, and cancer when compared to those who consumed zero eggs or one egg per week. A more moderate intake of two to four eggs per week increased the risk for cancer mortality and all-cause and heart disease mortality by 22% and 43%, respectively. For participants with hypertension and hyperlipidemia, an increase of one egg per week increased mortality risk. Higher dietary cholesterol and total cholesterol from egg intake accounted for the increased mortality risk. These results suggest that dietary guidelines discourage egg consumption, especially for high-risk individuals with hypertension and hyperlipidemia.” Ruggiero E, Di Castelnuovo A, Costanzo S, et al. Egg consumption and risk of all cause and cause specific mortality in an Italian adult population. Eur J Nutr. Published online March 24, 2021. doi: 10.1007/s00394-021-02536-w “Eating plant-based protein instead of animal protein reduces the risk for early death, according to a study published in JAMA Internal Medicine. Researchers compared protein intake and mortality rates of participants in the US National Institutes of Health-AARP Diet and Health Study. Those who ate more plant-based protein reduced their overall risk for death when compared to those who ate less plant-based protein. Results showed replacing 3% of animal protein with plant-based protein from foods such as bread, cereal, and pasta reduced the risk of death from heart disease by up to 12%. These associations were strongest when it came to replacing protein from eggs and red meat with plant protein. These findings support previous research that shows that plant-based protein sources promote better health and longevity.” Huang J, Liao LM, Weinstein SJ, Sinha R, Graubard BI, Albanes D. Association between plant and animal protein intake and overall and cause-specific mortality. JAMA Inter Med. Published online July 13, 2020. “Consuming red and processed meat increases the risk for chronic kidney disease, according to a study published in the Journal of Renal Nutrition. Researchers followed diet records for participants from the Tehran Lipid and Glucose Study and tracked protein sources and chronic kidney disease incidence rates. Results showed that those who consumed the most red and processed meat increased their risk for disease by 73% and 99%, respectively, when compared to those who ate the least. Substituting one serving of red or processed meat with a serving of a different protein source such as legumes or grains lowered the risk for disease by up to 30%. Possible protective mechanisms associated with replacing meat with plants include the lower dietary acid load, lower intake of advanced glycation end products, and increased intake of nutrients associated with improved kidney function.” Mirmiran P, Yuzbashian E, Aghayan M, Mahdavi M, Asghari G, Azizi F. A prospective study of dietary meat intake and risk of incident chronic kidney disease. J Ren Nutr. 2020;30:111-118.
@@FoolyCooly99 "BMI is bull. Show me a body composition study if you want any weight to your argument there. Being slim doesn't equate to better health, way to body shame." I didn't body shame anyone and don't intend to, I am just reporting empirical facts. Older research that created the idea of "healthy overweight" made the mistake of lumping together people who had become slim due to the diseases they had with people who were normal BMI without disease. However, more recent research that corrects for that error finds that the healthiest BMI is 21-22, and disease and mortality climb steadily above that. I can send the link later if you want it, but I have it on one of my other computers. "Where's a link to his little amino acid calculator that shows the vegan diet works and DIAAS is useless?" Mic laid out the argument pretty clearly: The DIAAS assigns an overall score based on the amino acid for which the food meets the least of the RDA, which totally leaves out the greater satisfaction of other amino acids by that food. Imagine if we similarly reported the micronutrient benefits of foods by simply reporting the vitamin of mineral for which the food provides the least. Almost every food would be rated as a zero if we used that logic, even if it is terrific for providing some micronutrients. Furthermore, as Mic pointed out, people who eat plant foods generally eat a variety of foods, and once you put together common combinations of those foods, the DIAAS score for the combination soars and reaches the "quality protein" range. Mic showed a chart in the video that clearly demonstrated that. "His mechanism don't account for carbs, sugars, or vegetable oils." It appears we agree that added sugars and oils are unhealthy. Good. As for carbs, there is enormous confusion about this because a) westerners mostly eat highly processed carb foods that contains junk (oils, added sugars, chemicals), b) most research is mostly on the effects of processed carbs or does a poor job of distinguishing between refined carbs, whole but milled carbs, and truly whole food carbs (intact grains), c) commentators and doctors and researchers routinely conflate the different types of carbs, so low-carb gurus virtually always report results of studies that were on processed/refined carbs then turn around and claim all carbs are bad. In reality, the best evidence clearly indicates that whole food carbs are very healthy, and even healthier if you eat the intact forms (e.g., intact grains). "Also the animal protein diet has the benefit of history behind it. Humans have consumed animals since they were created and have survived this long." There are multiple problems with appealing to the fact we have historically eaten meat, eggs, etc. First, our bodies have changed, and so have the foods. One of the serious problems for animal foods in this regard is that humans have dumped into the environment tens of thousands of toxic chemicals, and these naturally accumulate at high levels in the fat of animals. That reduces the healthfulness of meat compared to pre-industrial times. Second, just because we can live long enough to reproduce and raise our young while eating lots of meat doesn't prove it is the healthiest diet for us. Third, we now have good research proving that eating less meat and more whole plant foods is healthier. That DOESN'T prove a vegan diet is healthiest for you or me or this or that group. But the trend is that better health outcomes come from very low animal food consumption compared to what westerners consider "normal."
@@FoolyCooly99 "Phytoestrogen acts just like regular estrogen except not as potent." Absolutely false. Phytoestrogens BLOCK the estrogen receptors and reduce estrogen levels in men and women alike. Experimental studies prove that. "Then you'll know how soy boys happen." Soy boys is largely a myth: Unless you consume truly massive amounts, soy doesn't change testosterone levels at all, and again, it REDUCES estrogen levels. "As well as there are studies that too much soy can increase breast cancer risk." The research generally and consistently shows that consuming soy LOWERS breast cancer rates and lowers them significantly. The only risks seem to appear in studies where unreasonable/ outlier amounts of soy were consumed.
Funny in Germany most researchers recommend to eat 1g-1.5g of protein per kg body weight 2g if doing intense sports that's really difficult as a vegan. And you just failed to show arguments why diaas is not useful
Nearly on year 7 of doin my best to be out in the world advertising my muscles as a vegan... You know, the muscles that haven't shrunk at all even though I haven't eaten any animal products in 7 years.... I'm sure they'll melt off any day now. It's funny how people are still worried, still ask me about protein, still think they'll lose muscle. Like, use your eyes, I don't have body dysmorphia, I know my arms are nice. Anyway it's heartening to hear 40% of the US doesn't eat "enough" meat.
@@jasminejohnson8051 Why do you think ppl go to gym then? To grow muscle. Weight bearing strenghtens bones. Brains loose their capacity if they are not put to work. Better move and think!
@@soilikasanen my apologies, upon re reading I see now that I misunderstood your previous statement. I thought you were trying to say our muscles bones and brained evolved by using them(as in eating animal products). I apologize, and agree with what you said. Have a nice day
Which is what carbohydrate consumption causes (diabetes, obesity, heart disease etc). As someone who is genetically insulin resistant, I can attest to the fact that I feel a whole lot better on a ketogenic/carnivore/zero carb diet than I ever did when I was eating the "standard american diet" (or when I was vegetarian/vegan because I did that, too). At the same time, something like that can be an individualistic situation and it can also be a food quality issue. There are a lot of plant based oils that are just straight up bad for you. I suppose the biggest thing I've learned from my weird journey is that if you eat nose to tail with animal foods and you make sure they're humanely sourced (i.e. directly from the farmers who love their animals) you can easily meet all of your dietary needs. A quarter of liver contains all of the vitamins and ammino acids you need for a week. That's one liver a month lol. The rest of the meat would follow, realistically. The biggest issue america has is that they throw away all of the "undesirable" parts of animals that can still be eaten. They are also squeamish about eating other sources of proteins in the form of insects and even other animals (like stray cats and dogs or shelter animals that have to be put down because they couldn't find a home). If people got over their weird aversion to eating insects, cats, and dogs, we could easily reduce the amount of factory farming done which would make everyone happy.
It's easy to trash DIASS, which is a sincere effort to understand and rank protein sources, many of which are less than ideal. It's certainly better than the old PDCAAS system we relied on for years. Unfortunately, it seems some people expect perfection from DIASS. There are obese Americans who protest that the BMI score is less than perfect too, but perfection isn't possible. BMI is still an excellent way to rank body weight, even if it doesn't work for fit, muscular people (sadly, a small minority).
I've done more reading on DIASS scoring, and I was wrong. Mic is right. DIASS scoring is animal-protein biased, and appears to deliberately downplay the value of plant-based proteins. Unfortunately, the meat and dairy industries have a lot of clout and have been successful in distorting the true picture. I say that as a meat and dairy consumer. Mic is increasingly good at making me question my dietary choices.
@@paulmaxwell8851 ah yes, Because one thing is significantly more than another it must mean bias. I guess they have an anti-rice bias too because rice is downplayed in dciass scoring.
Just so you know the next time you make a video, you don't make a hole in the side of pigs because that is a technique used on ruminants. You would have to reanalyze the sources of your information.
I recently decided to go to a plant based diet. I talked to a nutritionist at the VA. She was supportive and said as long as I knew about beans and soy products she wasn't worried about protein. Normally she said that was her concern.
@@Mare0912 I think she is being playful referring to vegans who eat seitan and mock meats almost like they don’t know soy and beans exist, at least I hope so because otherwise yes that would be almost insulting lol Veganism can be a hard sell so to encourage people what people do is they offer a sort of leniency, while in reality soy is shit(look into George Washington carver and it’s history) and beans in general are not good for humans. some may be able to get away with it while others like myself cannot at all. My Hindu friend finds that he can’t do vegan and he was born vegetarian, he says that ghee really helps the digestion and using a pressure cooker........ for someone who has a long lineage of vegetarians in his family this doesn’t sound very “natural”, I look exactly like mic the vegan and after 15 years of veganism my digestion became horrible, I stuck with it as long as I could...I tried a million things and learned so much but still couldn’t do it.
Will you talk about the weird “anti vegan ancestral eating” side of “holistic” eating and debunk all these people that are obsessed with raw milk and liver and organic meat? And think we “need” cholesterol and saturated fat so when you tell them animal foods are high in both they’re like “good” 💀💀💀
@@skatingsarah1996 Preformed vitamin A isn't even a vitamin by defenition of vitamin... Retinol causes oxidative stress and rises the risk for osteoporosis and ATTR, wild type amyloidosis. Carotinoids are vitamins by definition that we can't produce them ourselves.
I know right! Humans are weird they have a digestive system of the great apes but end up cooking most foods. Aarron loos cows may have 4 stomachs but its not for the protein its to get more energy out of cellulose.
@Aaron Loos aaaaaaa are you ok in the head. Feed a monkey only meat to prove me wrong. The only way to make meat mostly safe for monkeys to consume is to cook it. Bears are omnivores you can feed them plant foods and raw meat. To me you sound like someone that has never went to science class and decided to chew and smoke Tabaco in the bathrooms. Just because you can eat dirt dose not make you a dirtvore.
No disrespect but this debunks nothing. DIAAS studies show bluntly that animal protein is superior over plant protein. Yes, its possible to have full amino spectrum on plant diet but you'd have to eat SIGNIFICANTLY more calories to do it(the autor mentions that as well) - meat is a better bang for your buck, you eat less and get more nutrition(not only protein but vitamins and minerals). People, don't kid yourself or try to rationolize your diet choices - if you want to be vegan that's absolutely fine, but don't buy into its superiority over "mixed" diet(animal + plants).
"you'd have to eat SIGNIFICANTLY more calories to do it" More than what? Do you wanna eat as little as possible? And lack energy? bang for your buck is wrong. Meat is expensive. On my vegan diet, I get 1800 calories a day at a cost of $6. (yeah, I eat less calories than the average Omni.
@@GaryHighFruit Everyone is different and their lifestyles are different. I used to exploit my body a lot physically - I was unable to regenerate enough being on a vegeterian (no meat) diet. I took supplements etc etc. But it did not work for me. My body was weak and skinny. It just took one weekend off - visiting my mom and grandmother eating a pork-chop or two to see that I'm getting stronger and bigger (not big). I think the smartest way is just to listen to your body and observe it. If you look skinny and unhealthy, get cold easily, tire easily, get sick 4+ times a year, have skin problems, then yeah.. maybe there is something wrong with your diet. You need to have balance. Fruit, veg, meat and dairy its all good if you keep balance.
@@addre113 I was with you until the end when you claimed you had a turnaround in 2 days. 1. Mic DID debunk WIL's biased half-truth video, just like I did and other experts did. 2. you don't have to eat SIGNIFICANTLY more calories to get enough protein. This has been proven not only by both halves of the science, but by fruitarians winning marathons against omni's. Now that I think about it, your story could be true, in that you felt stronger. Now that doesn't mean you WERE stronger or the meat gave you something plants didn't. It could mean the meat took you out of a level of detox. When the body is in detox, it will take energy from your own use to use for the detoxing. Or there could be other things happening. But the problem was not protein.
I think you need to get better educated on meat protein by a biochemist such as Dr. Milton Mills in this excellent video: ruclips.net/video/05pe-dzwvNg/видео.htmlsi=-IXFrm2BnmhSDCJP
Went full vegan for 2 months and felt great, in the end you'll feel great if you eliminate heavily processed foods. But in terms of weight lifting for me personally, meat and raw dairy products have proved dividend for my performance in the gym. To each their own.
It's so odd when I see you quote studies that are at odds with my personal experience. I eat alot of eggs and red meat. My CRP is as close to 0 as you can get and my LDL is lower than yours. I guess it just shows that different people tolerate different diets.
Good video Mic! My issue with the protein comparison that's everyones favourite discussion point right now, isn't actually anything to do with protein, but the often made comparison between highly processed, plant based fake meats (impossible, beyond et all) and animal food sources. I don't touch those highly processed fake 'plant based' foods, and I'm not a fan of the continued expansion of plant based processed slop - it opens up a not so weak argument that animal foods are superior from a health stand point. Whole food plants for the win.
Most of the plant-based analogues are not slop: They are carefully formulated to be higher in beneficial micro and macro nutrients, and lower in the less beneficial or harmful ones. They are _designed_ to be superior to animal proteins to directly compete with them. I think we are lucky to have so many different foods that can compete with dead animal.
@@tamcon72 are you serious? Or is that just what you've read and want to believe? Just for starters, research isolated proteins, pea, soy etc. I'd love to hear an argument for the health benefits of canola oil also. I'm not a nutritionist, I am however a doctor, and I don't recommend fake meat to patients. Whole foods are undeniable carriers of inherently better nutrition for your body. As for plant based fake meats being designed to be superior nutritionally, the CEO of Impossible has stated several times that the hierarchy of needs for their products is: Replicates the taste, texture and appearance of real meat. Go figure.
@@Samuel-bu7xr I'm a trained cook and I am basing my estimation on the ingredients and nutrition profile of new gen analogues. Also, the CEO of Beyond Meat has stated what I did, as has the CEO of Impossible on other occasions. They are improvements on animal foods. Certainly, many analogs are high in sodium and saturated fat, so a doctor should not be recommending them, but they are almost without exception lower in these less beneficial components than the animal version, so a better choice than those. I am not comparing them to whole plant foods, which I favor.
@@Samuel-bu7xr You'd recommend an animal filled with pollutants, including neurotoxins, over an analogue product synthesized from whole plant foods? I'm beginning to doubt your earlier statement.
Too many emotionally-charged sentances, too many pauses to just make fun of, and the amount of though provokation is so little that it barely registers. All that is just a rant that tries to be convincing but is not.
17:45 This study where vegan children were supposedly shorter and had weaker bones than non-vegan children, it's actually a miscalculation of mean. Nutrition Made Simple tackles this specific study.
‘What I’ve learnt’ still stuck in his meaty universe. Am sure he has a couple of sponsored freezers filled with flesh. Love the word ‘meat-case’ classic. Always look forward to yours and PlantChompers’ debunks. Just facts no shit.
Very good, thanks. I commented with my other identity, but another point occurred to me: many people, perhaps slightly more so here in India, demonise potatoes. So it's good to hear your endorsement of them from the protein aspect. I make sure to eat some potato every day: I know they have their benefits and I like them. The famous study from Israel showed that of all foods studied potatoes were the most satiating. Of cpurse, they would be good in a mixed diet, though people have lived on just potatoes for long periods. Even here in India, simple delicious less costly plant foods like potatoes, bananas and legumes are feared and/or despised by many, considered inferior, fattening or gas causing. People are dazzled by animal food generally, chicken, paneer (cottage cheese), cheese, meat... sigh. So it goes. Anyhow thanks for another impressively researched and analysed video and a necessary one.
ayo mate, where in India, I live in Delhi and there seems to be a love for potatoes, Aloo-matar, aloo tamatar, and stuff, dum aloo, there is no shortage of potatoes, Also the potato is the perfect vegetable since it comes in the proportion that should be eated, a fist. It's like nature's most optimal vegetable. Potatoes and Pea with Wheat Roti, perfectly complete food, and cheap, very cheap
Potatoes are one of the healthiest foods on the planet! Look at Spud fit on youtube, he was fat and sick, after eating only potatoes for a year, he gets slim and healthy.
Quick question, but the reason people in India don't eat potatoes is religious reasons? I recall some have religious reasons to not eat onion and garlic as well
Bottom line is: people's bodies do not respond the same to the same food. That being said, animal protein is still the best source of protein out there.
@dyldabeast9176 - Brainwash by science??? In dietetics we learn that meat has 70% of its protein absorbed, legumes, 60% and the rest, 50%. You can say all you want that being vegan is more ethical, it is good for the planet, it is morally right, but claiming it is healthier, it is a bit of a stretch.. I am a dietician, it is not... it is a diet that I highly admire whoever follows it, because when you cut an important food group of food out, you remove a lot of important nutrients with it. We do not absorb plant nutrients as well as animal sources. You have to eat triple to hit the same target. I wish vegans would understand this. The vegan diet has one and only purpose, protect animal lives from suffering and pain. That alone is just enough. There is no need to mask everything with the "healthy" label, because it is not. A healthy diet comprises all food sources animal and plants, combined they are just perfect.
I understand that those would be just claims of a random person. But I followed wfpb diet for an 8 months. I was very motivated and strict. Every day I was feeling mentally and physically worse. I was anxious and irritated. I wanted to eat all the time. Beans made me so bloated that it hurt. I lost one third of my hair. And I did my investigation. In order to get all the recommended Ca from kale, you’ll need to eat it as much as it will suppress the thyroid. And that’s what happened to me. I gained weight over these months. Even though I wasn’t eating refined sugars. Now I’m on keto. The only plant food that I eat is a few tbsp of almond flour and sunflower butter. My energy levels are higher, I sleep better, my waist line dropped to the level of the way it was when I was 25. My skin is glowing. I’m more focused. I do believe that vegan diet could be good for some people. Like keto. It’s a spectrum. Every person has to listen to their bodies.
To be fair, you say a lot of vegans have above average protein in the blood, but a lot of them seem to be of very skinny frame from what i've seen. Is it just a lack of exercise or something deeper?
No, Mic didn't cherry-pick any data he. He dismantled WIL's misuse of DIAAS data and cited a whole bunch of data proving plant protein is decisively healthier than animal protein.
@RUclips Account I'm a university-based researcher, and I study nutrition and how people get confused about it. That is just what the facts show. Plant protein is generally healthier, and diets dominated by whole plant foods result in the best overall long-term health outcomes. And we know lots of reasons that explain that pattern of results. Take care.
@@HealingLifeKwikly Mic cherry-picked data just like anyone else would to prove their point. Can't wait for someone else to make a video to dismantle Mic's misuse of data and citing a whole bunch of data proving animal protein is decisively better than plant protein. Thus, the cycle continues and nothing gets solved. No one who truly cares is conceding or reaching a middle ground, it is just tribalism and it enriches these grifters.
you cannot 'debunk' anything with associative, self-reported, and adjusted data. you cannot even reliably establish correlation in most cases. but since the video you're debunking is apparently relying on the same sort of pseudoscientific 'research', it's really just two clowns talking in circles.
21:50 I was diagnosed with MS in 2002, at the time I was a vegetarian, eating a lot of eggs - and dairy products. I was vegetarian "for the animals", but calorie-wise, I just swapped the flesh for more eggs and more dairy products. I've been symptom free from around 2005, when I went vegan. I heard about the dairy / MS connection over a decade ago, at first I didn't think much of it, since my doctor told me "food has nothing to do with it"..... But I have since then read more and heard several stories from people with MS, that their symptoms are either gone or much better.
I had the opposite experience. After several years on a whole foods, home cooked vegan diet my previously benign MS became very aggressive (and I experienced numerous other health problems too). When I went back to eating animal foods, my health improved dramatically and I now have had no relapses for more than 10 years.
@@eulalia3446 it just goes to show we dont know much about the disease and if a diet works for you stick with it but dont preach to others the qmway you eat is the solution. autoimmine disease is complicated and the gut is complicated, where big portion of our immune sytem is at. even gut microbe experts dont evrrything about gut bacteria and they tell you otherwise they lieing. the one thing i hate about these diet studies is that people take them as fact. in science its hard to prove anything and that ia why academics usr words like association and etc. think math. x and y. x increasing doesnt mean y has to increase. and etc
@@kellyschlumberger1030 true. but takes long time to deplete b12. this is what my doctor told me when i asked for my b12 levels checked. but i could be wrong. and your right b12 deficiencies do act like ms and i heard it puts you at risk of developing into ms as well if sucetiable
Check out Dr. Brooke Goldner. She had lupus and has basically cured an incurable disease in herself. I have lupus and RA so I’m trying to change my eating to mostly vegan and do her green smoothies. I don’t know a lot about MS so I’m not sure how much it could help but I know it will help some. I can tell when I eat processed foods and when I eat healthy foods. I’m just trying to find ways to eat healthy and make it easy and convenient. When I don’t feel good I’m bad to just grab something to shut my stomach up. And that usually doesn’t end up being anything good for me. I also don’t enjoy cooking. I can cook I just don’t like to. So I relied on convenience foods a lot. Now I’m trying to find ways to make the healthy foods convenient. I wish you all the best with your health!!!
Literally did my entire PhD on (mainly muscle) protein structure/function and I'm now a protein expression and characterization scientist. So this protein myth annoys me so much! What bothers me the most is plant proteins are actually much better in quality than animal protein!
@RUclips Account oh look we got an esteemed student of RUclips University trying to be smartass in front of an actual researcher . I think you should engage with your types and leave real stuff to educated people. Btw, how is YOUR research going? did you do enough google searches and watch enough propaganda videos today?
Even though I’m only a cyclical vegan, I appreciate Mic’s passion and intelligence. He makes some very good points, exaggerates others. My own take: veganism does tend to reduce muscle mass, but it does boost cancer inhibition and longevity, if done properly, for many, maybe most people
Maybe you're right and WIL is wrong, but to be honest, your somewhat cavalier attitude makes it difficult for me to take you seriously. WIL at least keeps things at a neutral and objective sounding tone. Your little jokes and puns give me the impression that you're trying to undermine WIL rather than look for the truth. Nevertheless, I did find value in this video, but I really think your attitude communicates an us vs them sentiment.
No you wouldn't. It's your excuse to maintain your bad habits. The right plant based diet will benefit anyone. You were eating the wrong carbs simple as that. BEANS and LEGUMES make nobody diabetic.
Thus video and comment section just goes to show that most vegans are unsure about themselves and need their beliefs to be justified even if it is shill. This is a simple matter. Look at the highest quality person in each dietary category and see who tends to be healthier. Omnivorous humans are almost always stronger, happier, and have more energy. I have cooked food at many different restaurants over many years and vegans hands down are the most unhappy, self-loathing, and complain the most. They rarely smile unless sugar is at their lips or they are putting somebody down.
The Vegan lifestyle is not appropriate for all. I have severe IBS. Most vegan protein sources cause me debilitating cramps and diarrhea. Meat, whether red, chicken, or fish is much easier for my body. I cannot eat any legumes, or anything processed from legumes, cruciferous veggies (except one bite only), no garlic, onion, stone fruits, mushrooms, or lactose. It is hell trying to eat out anywhere.
@@6248cjl I am not telling you that those proteins are for defending you, I'm telling you those proteins are there to protect the plant Those proteins harm you on purpose. The plant has DNA it's trying to pass down. Some plants have defenses like hard bark, thorns, defensive chemicals like poison Ivey. Plant proteins are weapons
My POV: A person can find research that supports their beliefs or ideas about food. The bottom line is that the human body is extremely adaptable and can survive and grow on a variety of diets. My criticism is that to be a healthy vegan, one needs to consume x amounts of x, y & z daily to equal eating a steak AND most vegans I know don't actually eat much vegetables, they mostly survive on pasta breads and cereals, i.e., processed grains. I think that factory processed foods is what typically makes us sick-- not eating or eliminating specific food groups.
Debunked? Debunked WHAT exactly? The only take away from WIL video is simple: omnivores have an easier time fulfilling their protein needs, as in, it's less complicated. Why get so damn pissy about this simple fact?
How about the very first claim from WIL as an example: about 40% of the US population doesn't meet the minimum protein requirement. That claim is completely false and debunked in this video.
I’ve watched both videos and at the end of the day, do what makes your body feel right! Data can be used to manipulate individuals/prove your point when taken out of context. I enjoyed your alternate points, but thought you could’ve done a better job staying away from the “eating red meat will kill you sooner” aspect. It’s a really tough argument in my opinion, but as long as you pair your eating habits with adequate exercise, you should be fine. For context I’m 5’7”, 160lbs, consume around 3000 calories, 160P, 90F, 330C, and exercise 5 times a week. If you think eating vegan/vegetarian is the key to longevity/happiness/sustainability, go for it! Let’s educate each other rather than bashing either side.
It is important to identify what is true. Would it make sense to state that the premise that "smoking cigarettes is healthy" is as valid as the premise that "not smoking cigarettes is healthy?" If one is willing to keep an open mind, there is clear evidence that animal products are not only not beneficial, but harmful to human health. The China Study is a good place to start for anyone interested in exploring the topic.
My man whether you're right or wrong, you come off as exceptionally one sided and angry. Not a great way to sway opinions when all I hear is "his video was trash and his info is trash, meat bad, plants good." Just some food for thought.
Great work bro, I am a vegan for 17yrs, a natural call, nobody inspired me or recommended it for me, I just turn vegan a day and that is my journey and never watched back. It's the best thing that happened to my life. Continue the great work, love from Ghana, a country where vegetarian are rare, and being even a vegetarian is tough, so guess been vegan? But I still go on!
@@Big_Dai that's your own cup of tea, I have been doing this for 19yrs, never been rushed to the hospital in this 19yrs, don't get regularly headaches, stomachaches, body pains and all various I see people suffer from over here because of their diet. And it is absolute nonsense to think that eating a plant based diet is not balanced diet, there are so many varieties of plants to mix up correctly to get all that you need for your body, guess you are missing a lot. In 19yrs this crap you just said, shows how lazy and inexorable you are to do your research and it easy for you to comment without any evidence.
Don't know if it is just me, but the travel link doesn't work :( But with that said, nice work on debunking the claims that plant proteins are inferior, and as always, thx for sharing insights in how to better the vegan diet, which is indeed the best all-around diet, especially when you eat a variety of foods, as is natural but still nice to know ^_^
No, he literally showed that a) protein intake is not a concern for Americans, and in fact, we eat too much animal protein, b) the DIAAS global protein score IS totally misleading, c) a lot of research shows that plant protein is healthier overall, as are diets dominated by whole plant foods. Speaking as someone who teaches and researches nutrition, this is well-established in the field.
@@HealingLifeKwikly I was not so intrested by researches pertaining US as I am not from US, but 17:39 example disturbed me. Author no doubt doesnt seem to see difference between HDL nad LDL cholesterol, where vegan an vegetarian children had biggest difference, not mentioned about B12 defficiency, vitamine D defficiency. Also no word that researchers stated : "The vegetarians’ nutrient intake suggests a more processed type of PBD, which might explain their worse CVD risk profile". Is that responsible approach?
@@Veriv213 "Author no doubt doesnt seem to see difference between HDL nad LDL cholesterol, " I don't see what you are talking about: The chart shown on the screen clearly creates one tier that includes too high on LDL AND too low on HDL (although HDL under 45 actually isn't necessarily a problem if you have healthy LDL of 35-70). "not mentioned about B12 defficiency, vitamine D defficiency. " Mic has made other videos clearly addressing the nutrients that vegans and vegetarians need to be sure to get (including B12 and D). However, the focus here is de-bunking the SPECIFIC claims WIL noted, so this whole segment focuses on de-bunking the idea that plant-based diets are unnaturally "stunting" children. "Also no word that researchers stated : "The vegetarians’ nutrient intake suggests a more processed type of PBD, which might explain their worse CVD risk profile". Is that responsible approach?" You CAN create heart disease either by eating lots of saturated animal fat and cholesterol OR by eating lots of highly-processed carbs and added sugars. Again, in this segment, Mic's focus is just on debunking the stunting claim, so there's no reason to expect him to wander off and discuss other aspects of a study that WIL brought up. The vegans had better LDL numbers, which is the main causal risk factor for heart disease. More generally, the diets that have achieved the very best results for preventing, stopping, and reversing heart disease are very low fat plant-based and vegan diets. So again, I don't see reasonable grounds for complaining about what Mic did here, nor for claiming he did just what WIL did. He didn't. Take care.
@@HealingLifeKwiklySorry I missed our answer. I dont see chart related to lower HDL and is is some kind of news to me that too low HDL is good in growth phase under some circumstances. Can you provide source? Also is good that you mentioned that there is a possibility of increasing CVD risk related to non-balanced diet, not to strictly eating meat. Researchers did not provide any comment stating that actually eating meet is related to risk increase. Cultural context also should not be missed as in Poland all kids attempting to kindergarten and almost all in elementary school are covered by public catering. At least 2 meals a day provided by school. Meat is not considered as allegren. It means if you want your kid to follow vegan/vegetarian diet, you have put lot of effort to provide it on your own. It brings us to another issue, as have been compared random groups of omnivoron kids and kids following probably more expensive(better quality) diet. Despite it those kids were shorter and had lower BMI. So yes, it is reasonable to compain what he did here. Neophic zeal.
@@Veriv213 "and is is some kind of news to me that too low HDL is good in growth phase under some circumstances." It is not "too low" HDL, it is simply lower HDL, and it is perfectly healthy if you have a healthy (lower) LDL level because if you have less LDL< you don't need as much HDL to clear the excess LDL away. So, in America, if you doctor if caught up on the research, and they see your LDL is 65, they are not going to think it is a problem that your HDL is in the 40s. The whole Polish study is ridiculous because 1) kids who are taller at one point in childhood may wind up shorter later, as Mic pointed out from the research, 2) being taller earlier has been linked to more health problems later, 3) there is no reason to think that being an inch of two taller is healthier or better than being an inch or two shorter. Shorter people live longer. We have lots of research that shows that after adjusting for other variables, plant protein is healthier overall, and that people should eat less meat and more whole plant foods. Take care.
I trust WIL over you, because he simply looks healthier and has a better body composition. So his advice is more reliable as his methods demonstrably work better.
You'd have to be a bit more specific about IGF1 and Leucine. IGF1 is triggered by many things and leucine is not the main cause. Also it does not increase cancer rate or proliferation in general, only in mammarian cancer. It is however very important for many other functions, for example bone growth, creation of proteoglykans, collagens and matrixproteins and is important for vitamin d3 metabolism. Also FASN is just a normal part of liver metabolism for exporting energy as Acetyl-COA into VLDL for fat storage and is also triggered by virtually every macronutrient (to different degrees). So saying "Don't eat animal protein because cancer" is really disingenious. Also every "study" (mostly observational studies or surveys) that tried to show food correlation (correlation! not causation) with cancer fail to exclude other factors, lifestyle choices in general. Also 17:22 .. ORANGE JUICE? Are you serious? Maybe read a paper about fructose metabolism and cancer. THAT has been actually proven to have causation, not just correlation. 21:40 probably should quote the whole conclusion.. " Low-carbohydrate diets were associated with a significantly higher risk of all-cause mortality and they were not significantly associated with a risk of CVD mortality and incidence. *However, this analysis is based on limited observational studies and large-scale trials on the complex interactions between low-carbohydrate diets and long-term outcomes are needed*."
I’ve been looking into this topic for quite some time and what I found out is that the protein source doesn’t matter at all. "Digestibility" scores are are misnomer, because they do not calculate any digestibility, only amino-acid content. We digest and absorb protein from plants and meats pretty much the same: if you cook, you digest and absorb more; if not, you digest and absorb less. No professional protein guidelines specify different protein requirements depending on the source. If you’re a professional athlete, you can possibly - maybe - potentially - consider adding some 10 grams of vegan protein more to your shake if you care so much about every gram of protein, because who knows, you might benefit from it. It’s a waste of money, time and effort for everyone else.
@@GarudaLegends If you want ME to even remotely consider what you’re saying (let alone "accept" this religious mantra "eat meat or else!"), you better have good credentials and reliable sources. Otherwise you’re just a random kid online wasting your own and everybody else’s time.
Any bodybuilder or professional athlete would laugh in your face for saying something so ridiculous. You ever wonder why a vegan has never won a gold medal at any olympic sport?
@@MrFreeGman Track and field athlete David Verburg is a three-time Olympic gold medalist. He started his journey into veganism in 2018, which was inspired by his advocacy and love for animals. Carl Lewis is one of only four athletes to have won nine Olympic gold medals during his career as a runner. He’s been fueled by a plant-based diet for over 25 years now. Trained figure skater and Olympic gold medalist Meagan Duhamel has lived a plant-based lifestyle since 2008. Soccer star and Olympic gold medalist Alex Morgan adopted a vegan lifestyle in 2017 and has not looked back ever since. It’s ok to admit you don’t know something, but spreading obvious misinformation is very unhelpful to your cause.
@@UTF016 All of those athletes were eating meat while building their foundations. They became vegans after they were already at the highest level. It's like men who put on a wig and convert to being a woman a week before the event and then claim that they represent women. No one's buying it other than the cultists.
Not getting enough protein could cause disease. I think it's crazy that you just discounted that because there's no official people going to the hospital.
To be fair though, meat has so much more protein per calorie than plants so if you're into bodybuilding, it'll be a lot harder to do so as a vegan. Maybe with a lot of protein powder.
That is one of the points from the video that he conveniently skipped. I don't care for vegan/keto diets, I'm omnivore and I just want to eat healthy, but all these lies from people backed by meat industry(carnivores/keto) or big pharma(vegans) are making it much harder than it needs to be.
@@АртёмСавостин-н9щ Yeah, if you look at the centenarians of Sardinia they have no particular restrictive diet but everything thet eat is local and organic+lots of wine and dancing. That's what I learned from my family in Greece, good food, low stress levels and a realtively active lifestyle=long life.
Bro hemp seeds have the craziest amino acid profile with very high digestibility. Their isolates will be magic. So so so many benefits including perfect omega-6:omega-3 ratio. Also they have SDA which gets converted to EPA more easily than fish oil! Their plants are ultra useful and agriculture is highly sustainable. They are the future. The answer had to be vegan. Truth wins always. Please make a video on this one and educate the curious ones. Thank you.
You seem just as biased, if not more, than this original RUclipsr. Not to mention you sound very triggered. Which wouldn’t be a surprise since you are a vegan, so probably super against anything that would suggest meat as being acceptable let alone supierior
Potato has 2gm protein/ 100g. 100 gm potato is 77 calories. To get just 40 gm protein from potato one needs to eat 1500 calories. You wanna go obese, that’s how you go obese.
The fact that you use "stained public toilets" as an evidence that there is an over-consumption of protein is quite silly and completely irrelevant, you know that right?
You can't force your views on other people. Face facts,most people who eat meat! Deal with it! Your views are yours,not every one else's. You're making Being vegan a religion and a political movement it's absurd. Grow up!
Thanks, stranger from RUclips! I've cut down on my meat intake in the past, but was fooled by WIL's video and went back to being a full time meat-eater. Finding out that I'm a gullible person hurt, but I also attribute part of that to wanting the easy way out (thinking about nutrition and learning new recipes feels like hard work and a lot of effort to me, because pretty much every meal in my childhood contained some form of animal protein), now I feel like a fool. WIL preyed on my confirmation bias and he got me good... I see myself as a man of science though, and the evidence and arguments you've provided made it unmistakenly clear, that I need to dive deeper into the mess of nutrition science and change my diet once again! So thanks, for setting me straight and showing me my bias, even though it hurt to accept it. Subscribed!
@RUclips Account Plant protein is bioavailable enough that anyone eating ample amounts of a variety of different plant foods will be covered. For every EAA, there are multiple plant foods with DIAAS scores of 100 or higher, and for all but one, there is at least one plant food with a score over 110. Furthermore, getting protein from plants is healthier in other ways. Take care.
@RUclips Account Two thoughts. First, it's a little more complicated than your first line: Some plant proteins DO have excellent bioavailability, including soy, mycoprotein, and potatoes. However, the QUANTITY of protein most people get from soy will be higher than the other two. Second, yes, this shouldn't be a problem if you are getting enough protein from a variety of plant foods. And everyone eating plant-based eats a variety of plant-protein-containing foods (I get 20 g of protein every day just from the kale I eat). Also, different plant foods actually have excellent scores for one or more essential amino acids, so once you combine them together, it covers the bases well (lysine is the hardest base to cover, and some people eating plant-based could fall short on lysine if they aren't getting enough legumes, potatoes, soy, etc.) But before I even get to lunch, I will have eaten maybe 15 different protein-containing foods across the morning (including a 7-grain cereal), and will be somewhere in this ballpark: 2 cups soy milk: 14 g protein 2 thick slices homemade bread: ~16 g Spicy bean dip on the bread: 5 g protein 3 cups kale: 6.6 g protein Big bowl of heritage flakes: 8 g protein Bowl steel cut oats: 7.5 g protein Banana: 1.3 g protein OK, so I’m not yet to my spicy rice & beans lunch, and I’m around 58.4 g of protein already, and have gotten in good carb-loading to give me energy for the day. I’ll end the day at around 100 g of protein, which is more than 1 g/kg of bodyweight. (and I'm clearly not starving!) Take care.
If it makes you feel any better, I also had a phase of eating a lot of meat due to a WIL video, and also felt like an idiot at the end of it when Plant Chompers showed me the error of my ways. Am vegan now and, so far, not suffering from kwashiorkor.
I was vegan for 2 years. I had horrible health. My skin worsened, I look older, my libido dropped, had numerous gut problems due to the gut irritants and inflammatory ingredients in plants. As soon as I went more carnivore, they virtually all went away in a week
Sorry to say, I just don't agree with you and I agree far more with the What I've Learned channel, both from the better thoroughness of his study compared to yours and notable personal experience. I will grant you that there are a handful of notable vegetarians/vegans that can stay that way for most of their lives (typically celebrities that can afford personal nutritionists to help maintain their diet). But the vast, vast VAST majority of vegetarians/vegans I've met are sickly, weak looking bone-racks that cannot handle intense physical workouts; I'm also a martial artist and have sparred with vegans. They have NO POWER and get steamrolled. I personally also carefully considered one of his videos where he explained thoroughly how carbs like bread, potatoes, cereal etc were a serious problem, including that one excellent interview with a nutritionist who went low-carb himself and reversed his diabetes with it. I did that myself, completely changing my breakfast (was cereal every day for years, now gone) and hard-cutting having pasta, rice and potatoes for as many meals as possible, and INCREASED my meat intake, I still do eat veggies with it. And my health IMPROVED far faster than I ever expected; I'm shedding excess weight at a surprising rate without increasing my exercise routine, I'm physically stronger and more endurant, and sleep debt does not affect me as much. I was not expecting it to have this beneficial of an effect this quickly. And I've had a couple of vegetarian meals with friends since this started...they did NOT WORK. I was hungry, quickly, craving very specific foods that weren't in those meals.
Youre the man. I saw the video you de-bunked and i was seriously debating on if i should stick with the plant based lifestyle and safe to say now i will not make the change lol. Keep doing the amazing work you do we really appreciate it!!
I'm considering wading into this mess after watching a few videos. My conclusion is simply being omnivorous is the obvious choice, with a predominant selection of plant based foods. Eggs, for example, have such a high biological value and extremely nutritious, that if you can find a supplier and deal with humane concerns, there's literally no reason to not eat them. Super efficient, free (the chickens will lay them anyways), easily digestible, immensely versatile. Too useful and healthy not to use. The only reason not to is harm to the chickens, but if you control for that, then eating them everyday is a massive boost to high quality protein intake.
Nutrition is a really annoying subject to learn about but if I learned anything from this video, it's that you can't trust anyone who compiles the information for you. I'm not vegan or even vegetarian and I only watched this to find out the truth from the other video. It always turns out to be far more complicated and people always leave out information. Even though this channel has highlighted mistakes in the original video, I wouldn't subscribe because I think it's more important that people just research things themselves instead of latching onto another youtuber for information on nutrition. Nevertheless, I'm thankful for this video to help me come to that realisation. I've seen debunks of debunks of debunks and it gets really tiring. Everyone is just looking for information supporting what they already believe to be true and everyone has an agenda. The meat industry is likely protected by a plethora of powerful things but I wouldn't believe for a second that the veganism industry doesn't or won't do the exact same thing. It's exhausting listening to and surrounding yourself with people who wouldn't admit they like feeling better than others. People in the comments joking about What I've Learned not really learning anything or "carnists" being people who jump to the next claim while entirely ignoring data. Finding amusement in a way that makes themselves feel superior or generalising entire groups as ignorant. Sorry for ranting but ultimately I'm buying science textbooks, reading published scientific papers and trusting how my own body feels and performs. I hope everyone eventually does the same or something similar.
yes this is a major problem and a very difficult one too. I am trying to go vegan but I'm not actively looking for information to support my lifestyle. I want unbiased facts, which is hard to get when watching a video where someone obviously has a side. and it'll take alot longer to do all this research yourself
@@hammy9800 It definitely is longer. I looked at the sources from the original video and if you want to be accurate and informative, it would take hours just to read it let alone compile it into a video. I suspect most RUclipsrs who research things and compile them often skim or miss things because it's extremely difficult not to. The source about increasing the average protein intake from .8 to 1.2/3 was a study on OLD WOMEN. I'm not an old woman or even and old man yet but it's just so easy to misinform. Everyone needs to learn to think for themselves or we will just lap up information that we like to hear from smiling charismatic pseudo celebrities.
Try eating vegan, and like, having blood actually flowing to your muscles. It's 2022. I build muscle even easier on whole foods/plant-based. Lol "what I've learned" yeah I learned some things too, thanks again to mic
Most vegans I've met, always tired despite eating big dishes of legumes and watching me going smooth with my meat protein. That alone speaks clearly to me.
My mom has rheumatoid arthritis and hypothyroid and shes basically eaten a vegetarian diet closer to a vegan diet with very little animal proteins for the last 30 years. She suppliments and has followed naturopathy for as long as I can remember. Never smoked, no drugs no alcohol. No history of any severe medical in our family as all our grandparents and great gradparents lived into their 80's. My dad on the other hand smokes, drinks and wont touch a vegetable if his life depended on it. He has had a quintuple bypass surgery, has high blood pressure and had kidney stones. The point im trying to make here is I think people need to stop this war between vegan this meat that. I hope that more real science on diet will come out in the future as I feel like whichever way you swing your side is based on cherry picked information to sway your narrative. Its dangerous to scare people into doing that can harm them because you feel passionately about something. We ARE omnivores and we most likely should eat healthy options from all groups and have a healthy balance. You can do what you like and I actually encourage it just try less judgement along the way....
Lol, an enlightened centrist has appeared. Yes, science is hard. But your estimation that both sides arrive at their conclusions through cherry picking is naive. As nutritional research continues, meta-analyses continue to show that eating less animal products produces better outcomes. This is despite the inclusion of industry funded gish gallop that favors animal products. A lot of real science has existed for a long time. But one has to educate themselves and actually read many studies to separate it out from the compromised science. It is easy to value anecdotes and assume that most people don't earnestly seek the truth but instead fight for their side. That way, one can pretend to stand above as an objective observer without having to learn anything themselves. In reality, they have already been swayed one way by the side with the stronger propaganda.
Great video. Would be good if what I've learnt could respond to your robust and comprehensive debunking, but I guess he is on to his next people pleaser video by now; no regard for the harm he causes in his wake.
@@dosomestuff1949 Just be a pescatarian. Eating intelligent animals is weird as fuck, but eating moving vegetables isn't a big deal. Chickens and fish are basically brain dead, eggs literally are just meat fruit, and they all happen to be incomparably healthier to eat than mammals are. Also, the carbon footprint of all three is also incomparably smaller than for pigs and cows. Octopus might be super healthy, but eating them is still weird.
@@dosomestuff1949 no, just eat a lot of beans, nuts, seeds, whey protein, creatine, and greek yogurt. Even if you're lactose intolerant, you can still eat greek yogurt and whey protein. There's also special "bulk up" powder you can buy at places like GNC, but it's pretty expensive.
Came to this video as a fan of What I've Learned expecting a decent rebuttal but this has been a bit of a dumpster fire of a response. Protein Adequacy in Americans; Weirdly enough, I'm not sure why WIL had to provide this statistic as claim is wrong but still points in support of his argument. As Mic says at 2:58 "intakes of protein (as grams/ day) are adequate across the population" You know why? Because the American diet is highly based on a huge amount of animal products. Which actually proves WIL point on protein being completely adequate in the animal products consumed on a mass scale by most Americans, as these findings make a good point of evidence for that claim. Black Beans Nutrition; Firstly, you are accounting for two foods to reach those amino acids numbers compared to one animal product. Secondly, Black Beans do NOT have the same amount of protein and is lacking in linoleic acid beef has more linoleic acid than black bean per 100 grams. Black bean has more thiamin and folate, however, beef contains more niacin, pantothenic acid, Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B12. These vitamins are seen as mostly deficient in vegan diets. Just like the onion offering increased digestibility for Phtyic acid, meat eaten with vergatbles and grain largely reduces any cancer risk asocated with red meat. Remember, Meat eaters aren't just eating meat like exclusionary vegans who eat no animal products, ominvors had intended, befits from the continuity of both meat and plant based options. DIAAS Validity While it is true that the DIAAS suffers from some limitations it is a useful tool for protein analysis, especially compared with the PDCAAS. A study from 2022 "Protein Quality Changes of Vegan Day Menus with Different Plant Protein Source Compositions" finds the crucial amino acid lysine to be lacking in the diets analzyed by the case study. They ran the case study on the the EAT-Lancet diet which even found lower protein sources in planet based diets were even effected by which the proccess if refined or not. Most studies anylzing recomneded prtoein and emino acids scores for vegans dont include digestibility. Muscle Mass in Animal vs Plant Proteins There is a reason you're using a single community based cohort study based on middle age and elderly Chinese adults and not any of the overwhelming evidence to support lean muscle mass , and i think you know why. I dont believe after this research you didnt come across the "Animal Protein versus Plant Protein in Supporting Lean Mass and Muscle Strength: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials" study in 2021 that, even though found no absolute lean mass or muscle strength. It did find "Quantitatively, the meta-analysis revealed a favoring effect of animal protein specifically for percent lean mass. There was a significant gain in both absolute and percent lean mass with animal protein intake among adults
Considering that plant-based meat is industrial goyslop with mountains of ingredients like seed oils and additives, I think I’ll stick with real grass finished meat.
Just saw the original video and something wasn't adding up. As you point out we're not seeing hospitals full of people suffering from protean deficiency. Sadly many more people have seen the original then this response.
No, he dismantled WIL's argument using sound arguments and scientific studies that prove plant proteins are consistently healthier than animal proteins.
@@Arjunarjunskiy He didn't just contrast WIL's view with his own research, he also looked at the same research WIL used and came to a different conclusion. In the past WIL has made posts responding to mic, so he might do it again too
@@Arjunarjunskiy Yes, very true, but as a university, my research focuses on how people get fooled about what is true or effective in various fields (by misleading studies, language, etc.). Sort through the fog, and it is overwhelmingly obvious diets dominated by whole plant foods are healthiest for humans and are healthiest for the planet by an ENORMOUS margin.
Literally it's stated everywhere that animal protein is better absorbed, better accepted etc.. it is superior. You only have to look it up, there's thousands and thousands of sites that site this fact.
"Literally it's stated everywhere that animal protein is better absorbed, better accepted etc.. it is superior. You only have to look it up, there's thousands and thousands of sites that site this fact." And speaking as a researcher who studies how people get fooled about healthy nutrition, those sites are misleading you/wrong. Research clearly shows that when you follow people for long periods of time, replacing animal protein for plant protein yields markedly better health outcomes--after controlling for other variables. This is well documented, whereas higher consumption of animal fat and protein ramps up virtually every known non-genetic disease. So how did researchers and pundits get it so wrong? In a nutshell, they made many of the same mistakes WILs' video did. First, you can't just judge the quality or healthfulness of this or that protein based on the bioavailability of EAAs. Animal foods on average have more harmful health effects and fewer beneficial health effects than do whole plant foods. Compared to eating whole plant foods instead, meat in particular ramps up rates of many different diseases. Second, judging the value of "eating plant proteins" cannot be done while just judging the global DIAAS score for an individual foods. One problem is that the way the DIAAS treats nitrogen means it underestimates the EAA value of plant foods and overestimates the EAA value of animal foods. Another problem is that people who eat plant based usually eats LOTS of different protein-containing foods, and the EAA strengths of one food counterbalance the EAA weakness of another plant food, rendering the already-strange DIAAS global score moot and useless/deeply misleading. I'm just eating lunch now and so far my vegan diet has included at least 15 different foods that contain protein. For every amino acid, there are multiple plant foods with DIAAS scores over 100, and for all but one amino acid there is at least one plant food with a DIAAS score over 110, so when you eat a variety of plant foods, it is quite easy to meet all your amino acid needs. If you just eat potato chips, candy, and beer, THEN you'd have a problem. Third, research clearly shows that it is the AMOUNT of protein you eat--not whether it came from plants or animals--that determines its effects for building muscle. Interestingly, those who don't eat meat have been found to have better endurance, FAR less toxic chemicals in their bodies, and to have arteries that dilate four times as well as those of meat eaters. One should focus on WHOLE plant foods to be truly healthy, but the case against eating lots of meat just keeps getting stronger and stronger. Take care.
What I've Learned is clearly biased towards eating meat, this channel is clearly biased towards not eating meat, so it's quite difficult to trust any information coming from either side. But I do appreciate hearing both sides of the argument. My stance is that there are problems on both sides. Vegans have to take greater care in combining the right foods to avoid deficiency, which many do fail at because they are too lazy to cook varied meals or because they are picky eaters. My sister is vegan and had to take supplements for years before finding a diet that worked for her. Non-vegans on the other hand have the opposite issue of often overconsuming too much meat, which as mentioned contains lots of harmful stuff. Humans have throughout most of history had a predominantly plant-based diet, meat didn't provide the bulk of our nutritional needs. Our bodies simply aren't adapted to a high meat diet, in the same way we aren't adapted to a only-bananas diet.
Getting enough protein from a vegan diet is just more difficult, it’s even more difficult to get enough protein on a low calorie diet , I eat tuna and eggs after being completely vegetarian for years , I gets eggs from a friends chickens and only eat skipjack tuna , but we can’t expect to get our nutrition science from you tube
Having seen both videos and read a lot of literature about nutrition and dietary guidelines in several countries, I can honestly conclude that there IS a lack of proper nutrition in the US - Period. I personally ate a lot of meat products about 2 years ago, multiple times a day. I have done my meat-eating part, and I can honestly conclude that we all need better nutrition sources in general - and that goes for both vegans and carnivores. In the video he concludes that Soy and Pea Protein isolate is the best plant-based protein form, that you can consume on a Vegetarian/Vegan diet. (Is it wrong? - NO!) But WIL has an agenda, he wants to info-bomb with positive meat-information, and that's okay - That is for his audience! Tell me if I am wrong, but in the world of plant-based diet, there has always been a lack of nutrition coming from natural sources. Like B12 vitamin, and Heme-Iron! (Non-heme iron coming from plants) The amino acid profile in plant-based food is also problematic, but it is doable. My conclusion is then: YOU CAN HAVE A FUNCTIONAL PLANT BASED DIET! But you need to supplement with proper vitamins and minerals - Period! And you need to read up on amino acid profiles, and make sure you eat balanced. Of course, meat is easier on the amino acid profile, B12 vitamins and Heme-iron. (You can't deny that) But you don't have to eat meat to fully function as a human being. Note: I am a flexitarian (I eat plants and dairy products everywhere I can, but if meat is being served, and I have no other options, I will eat meat)
I don't know, all you say is pretty accurate, it's just hard for me to hear someone vegan talking about meat, I'd like to hear it from someone impartial in this topic
"it's just hard for me to hear someone vegan talking about meat, I'd like to hear it from someone impartial in this topic" Either you eat meat or you don't: Either way, you're not impartial.
I have been working with athletes for the past 19 years and had vegans and meat eaters. Meat eaters are always superior! Also the vegans that switched to meat got better results. If vegan protein is so superior as you claim, how come there are so few athletes that are vegan? .... I think that answers it up!
Complete proteins plants don't have, they also don't have heme iron, then finally bioavailability. Put 3 ounces of wild caught Atlantic mackerel vs 3 ounces of any plant food then through bioavailability how much of each is actually absorbed. You're debating against human anatomy.
I know there's always people willing to tell people what they want to hear so that they can make a quick buck, but......I've only just got to Mic's first point, where the guy is trying to claim the average american is protein deficient and you know this Fox News-level twisting of the truth. It's just so disheartening - firstly that so many people are willing to manipulate facts like this, but more importantly, that there are so many eager for the "alternative facts" :(
Where is What I've Learned's video about how meager the US population's fiber intake? Great video! And thanks for mentioning Ethiopian food...my favorite cuisine, hands-down.
Yeah...those plant based countries need to rev up their protein consumption so they can rev up their cardiovascular and cancer percentages to be more like us. They are lagging behind.
Whether he's right or not, he's much more charismatic and informative than you. You sound like your angry. He's nice to listen to, while your tone just grates on my ears. Others have said that it sounds like you're triggered and it does.
I had to reupload this video since it had an export glitch and when I pasted the description it messed the travel survey link up! BUT HERE IT IS!: my.trovatrip.com/public/l/poll/micthevegan
What about anti-nutrient in legumes? Im not against vegans but I'm confused about it. Im vegetarian by the way.
The sources link got messed up in the description too
@@mitchelfranco5858 Check that out by NutritionFactsOrg 👍 Phytates have e.g. anti-cancerous abilities.
@@mitchelfranco5858 You just cook them. Or you can eat canned beans which have been pre-cooked.
See you at the campout bro!
Hey Mic, when you said 'excess protein being peed out' at the 3:36 mark, you can't pee out protein unless you have kidney damage/failure as protein in urine is a very bad sign that the kidneys aren't doing their best. That's just a little bit I caught though!
So, the peed out which causes the color to the toilet is a sign of kidney problem so will lead to kidney stone and kidney disease? So, ya are saying it does not pee out since protein is still inside but the process of kidney cause repel of water which causes color comes out as lower water so there is a block of water within as need higher absorb of water to decrease the color of pee, so still, a problem since you are drinking more to counterbalance the color which a marker of a problem with kidney so a block in the kidney?
He says it’s an uric coating on the urinals, so I suppose he’s just shortening his comment and he knows proteinuria is the bad way for the body to eliminate proteins, otherwise such protein excess will always become urea, right? Uric compounds
of course, the entire video is a lie.
@@shakaama What I've Learned's video is, yep.
@@absolutezeromusicofficial no, this vegan one is all lies. All you vegans will be changing your tune one day when you reach your health crisis. it’s just weird to see how stubborn you are now, not listening to anyone. Will you remember the voices of reason sounding now when you’re forced to change your ways in the future? Nope, because if you aren’t listening now, how can you be forming a memory of if for later. Your ego is too strong to allow the rest of your brain to listen to reason. That or you’re so mad at how humans treat animals you’d rather slowly off yourselves nutritionally. I don’t even know why we try to tell you. There’s too many humans on the planet anyways, veganism drastically shortening lifespans is a good thing. I suppose it’s just out of avoiding future guilt that we warn you now. Good luck vegans 👍
I am a pharmacist and a biotechnologist and not an expert in diet ! But you have to understand proteins are made of 20 amino acid out of these some are essential amino acids as we don’t produce them ourselves and some are more needed than others . Unfortunately to popular belief not all you eat is absorbed and as you might know plants amino acids absorb less as some are entrapped in fibers or they are glucoronized in away that utilizing them are not possible for humans . This is a different story for meat! Thats why you see animals eating plant have to eat multiple times more than a carnivore animal to get the nutrition they need . This applies to minerals as well . You can look up Iron absorption rate as an example .
I am not saying being vegan is bad , i am just saying the fact that you are vegan doesn’t change the reality of science .
Lol.. u see nobody is responding to you? Cuz it’s always feelings over facts. Good job pointing it out.
One small ship of sanity in an ocean of ignorance.
It is true not all you eat is absorbed. Its why the content of consumption is often reflected in stool samples and not uniformly standard.
However, from what I'm aware of, the concepts behind fiber's function in the digestive tract is that it actually serves both to increase time spent in the intestines (by slowing traversal) as well as decreasing absorption speed. It is not actually as 'entrapped' as you suggest, as during processing it is chewed. A more accurate depiction is that fiber proportionally reduces absorption, not necessarily reducing absorbtion heavily in specific amino acids which is likely how people are interpreting your statement. An argument can be made about how proteins can bind, and as you mention proteins being glucoronized (a relationship I am unfortunately not familiar with, so I will not contest), but this is not reflected by outcome data to effectively negate said dietary pattern.
Furthermore, it is a very well known phenomenon within the vegan community in regards to bio-availibility and food pairings, such as in regards to iron, (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20226993/) where for in vivo studies with rats, " The presence of both garlic and iron led to a 2-fold increase in plasma iron and a 50% increase in liver iron as compared with iron alone". There is also the theory of pepper increasing overall absorption by agitating the intestinal wall, allowing easier passage through the intestinal barrier. Furthermore, the dietary pattern again does not reflect broad trends in literature reviews (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8003004/)--"In conclusion, although the participants were eating a plant-based diet, the majority had sufficient iron status. Female vegans and vegetarians of reproductive age are at risk of low iron status and should have their iron status monitored".
I should mention however, that I have seen studies that do show an elevated risk among plant-based dieters. The common trend however is that they are fruitarians or raw food dieters.
Secondly, yes carnivores often do not need to put in the work of metabolizing plants, and often in pure volume require higher levels of consumption. However, this is because they process plants, and must break down cell walls through manual grinding in addition to lengthy gastro-intestinal processing. Being facetious here, humans cook food.
I only stumbled across this video from RUclips recommendations, and am surprised people are still disagreeing years later.
@@maverick5989 unfortunately dear maverick, nobody responds because this is an old video that covers a topic that vegans have had to rebuke time and time again. Again, I urge you to review the literature on this issue and understand the hierarchy of scientific evidence, which lists mechanism below epidemiological data in regards to outcomes. That is to say, understanding a small mechanism within the biochemical process does not in fact predict its final result.
@@maverick5989t. “ ha ha I’m totally not doing the same thing.”
he didnt say the vegan diet was bad, he just said, its much harder and is not very effective at hitting the amino acids required to break down the protein properly since plants lack a lot of the amino acids required, so it requires a lot of mixing around of other different proteins to hit those metrics, which for the average person, they arent doing that
He's said it's bad on many of his other videos
@@Quincycle why does that matter? He's discussing this video, not the other ones
Plants dont lack of those amino acids, they have different levels of them, that's why in a well diverse diet, all the aminoacids are in the levels we need.
It's literally doesn't
@@CorolaImperialCompared to meat they're absolutely lacking. I lack the strength to lift 1000 pounds like Eddie Hall, that don't mean I don't have strength. Lack and without are entirely different my friend.
Uric scale is not excess protein being "peed out", if you have protein in your urine, you have kidney damage.
So why are stadium urinals caked in uric scale? Uric acid is made when the body breaks down purines. Beer contains very high levels of Purine. When you drink alcohol and no water you become dehydrated. The concentration of Purines is higher in urine when people become dehydrated. That is why.
Thanks. Mic tends to be "not correct" from time to time :)
I know right. Urine should NOT have protein, unless your kidney is damaged
Just reviewed that study. Its basically vegetariens patting eachother on the shoulder by peer reviewing each others pro plant epidemiological studies. It referal to referal and three referals into studies in you end up at epidemiological studies. Statistical analysis after another from epidemiological studies. They refer eachother in hopes no one looks into it. I only reviewed the dutch people in the study. Niels and Trusy who are/claim also to be both vegetarian but don't disclose their bias in their papers. Once you see it, it takes so little time to look into more of this bs they pull. It is kind of a big finger to the people who died during the low fat studies in the past in the asylums. Very immoral.
Can you please provide details of who funds the studies you source just like you do for the studies you critique? Thanks!
You can do that, boy. If you want to be that legit - go check it out for your own.
He often cites conflicts of interest
as all vegans he use "trust me bro" source about all topics in his life
Check out dr ecclestyn if you really want to know as he uses studies that he refers too also plantchompers is excellent at showing studies.
@@gustach6167 all vegans? have you checked all of them?
I just would like to add something:
For a lot of these studies about red meat and chronic diseases we have to put in perspective that some of them aren't just because of meat, but because of the hormones and heavy process used in the process. I'm not a nutritionist, but my family is almost 100% farmers, and we had a lot of talks showing how bad those things are for human health. And this includes non-organic plants too. You get a lot of heavy metals just by eating some fruit that was grown using agrochemicals. There's a hight correlation of mass usage of those chemicals and multiple disease like cancer. The early development of woman teenages you cited, a considerable amount of this is to blame artificial hormones.
About renal disease, sugar is also water soluble, and cause renal problem. I'm not American, but I hear that they have a high carb diet and a sedentary lifestyle, if you don't burn this, some will go out in your urine.
At the end of the day, nutrition is a complex thing, and no bold statements can be made. In multiple cultures, people have been eating meat and plants forever and they are doing just fine (me included). The best diet is the one that makes you feel better. I think the only thing we can say for sure is: organic food should be preferred
Wow. I love this! I wish more people got to see your comment. I found his video a little unprofessional in his assertions because the other video makes it clear that plant protein are a suitable option, you just have to eat more of it. its all about the individuals golas and what makes you feel best and this me vs them approach is very irritating. Nutrition is SO complex, and there cannot be one answer as humans are a diverse group of people. thanks for your opinion, a lot of people dont actually have exposure to people who are in food production.
4:39 Mic suggests that there are a "ton" of practical problems associated with DIASS. What he doesn't tell you is that DIASS was preceded by other measures, such as the protein efficiency ration (PER), the net protein retention ratio (NPR), and the protein digestibility corrected amino acid score (PDCAAS). So, the real question is - if DIAAS does actually have practical problems - are its problems characteristic of all such measures, or are its practical problems unique, and do they render it too impractical to use?
5:19 Mic says that DIAAS is "trash" - since Mic hasn't mentioned the other measures of protein quality, he couldn't mean that DIAAS is "trash" in comparison to those measures. So, what could it mean to say it is trash? The UN's FAO doesn't consider it trash, for example (and nor do the authors of the papers he cites, as we shall see).
5:49 The paper in question does not indicate that the results of applying DIAAS to whole diets and plant based diets are "atrocious". The paper actually acknowledges DIAAS' strengths.
5:57 "The digestibility figures come from animal models..." but so too do the figures for the PDCAAS, NPR and PER models.
6:02 "Often they're feeding raw, dry food inappropriately to these animals" The paper doesn't mention the appropriateness of feeding raw or dried food to the pigs - it does however point out that cooking food affects its digestibility, and hence, its DIASS. But that point is also made in the What I learned video.
6:05 "Digestibility depends on the size of the animal..." The paper does not mention animal size, age, or weight, or the effects of over-feeding.
6:16 "and from this paper in the vast majority of figures that they have, they have not prepared these samples in the way that humans would eat them so really they're saying they need new data entirely for human consumption figures." No, that's not at all what the paper says. The paper states in the introduction that "recent studies...do not inform to which extent a specific protein can be digested to meet the human body requirements;" the authors' objective, therefore, is to "broaden the comparison of DIAAS to more protein sources." The text quoted in the video is simply re-stating what was said in the introduction; it absolutely is not saying that all previous, animal research and its results need to be tossed; they are saying that existing data needs to be compared against data generated from human tests - of which there is very little (ileal tests require hooking a hose to one's lower-intestinal tract).
6:30 > 6:43 Mic doesn't say who the "they is" but the 6.25 figure can be found in the first paper he referenced. What the paper says exactly is: "Food-specific nitrogen-to-protein conversion factors have been determined for various foods and can be used for this calculation; however, the FAO does not recommend their use. Instead, it recommends that the generalized nitrogen-to-protein conversion factor be utilized. The generalized factor was set at 6.25 because all proteins were originally estimated to contain 16% nitrogen; however, this varies greatly between proteins." So, the authors' complaint is not with DIAAS; as a method but with the FAO which recommends using the 6.25 conversion factor. The authors do, after all, recognize that other "food specific nitrogen-to-protein conversion factors" exist (i.e., "have been determined"). Thus this is not an indictment against DIAAS; it is a suggestion for how it could be improved.
7:13 > 8:20 No other measure of protein quality, PER, NPR, PDCAAS, has been applied to "whole diets" - because that's not what they're designed to do. They're designed to determine the quality of protein from discrete sources. However, they all agree that the amount of protein that can be utilized can be increased by increasing the amount of the limiting amino acids. No nutritionist has ever said otherwise. The What I learned video even acknowledges this.
8:21 "While I think the scoring is trash..." Except your sources haven't shown that it is "trash" or that it "has a ton of practical problems."
8:27 > 8:34 "to further show how trash it actually is or at least how trashy this misapplication to a plant-based diet is..." Yes, the second paper does indeed say that. Just before it says that, it says: "Based on the 0.5- to 3-year-old scoring pattern, potato and most animal-derived proteins tend to reach the excellent protein quality category (DIAAS ≥100). Soy and whey proteins fall into the high-quality protein range (DIAAS = 75-99). Gelatin, corn, wheat, hemp, fava bean, oat, pea, canola, rapeseed, lupin, and rice proteins lie in the no quality claim category (DIAAS
With just a little thought it is pretty obvious that the DIAAS approach to scoring a food based on the EAA it has the least of is incredibly misleading and leads to ridiculous and counterproductive conclusions. Imagine if we rated the tools in your toolbox based on how good each was for the 9 most important handyman practices (hammering, screwing, painting, etc.). Every tool would be rated as having zero or near zero value, because paintbrushes can't drive screws and a hammer is lousy at painting walls. Similarly, imagine giving every food an omnibus rating based on which vitamin or mineral it provides the least of: Almost every or every plant and animal food would receive a score of zero.
This is not to slam the scientists who designed the DIAAS, but using the global score for a food is unscientific and idiotic--unless your sole purpose was to design an animal feed using only the best all-round protein source (and for some strange reason you could only use one). Also, the scores for different EAAs are useful.
"Watching Mic reminds me Christian apologists trying to explain away science that threatens their worldview" Your long detailed and defensive reply reminds me more of the Christian apologists.
The WIL video Mike is referring to appears to have been designed out of either profound ignorance of the science of whole diets or out of an attempt to discredit plant foods and elevate animal foods (a trend also seen in WIL's absurdly misleading videos about the environmental impacts of beef).
Yes, people eating just plant protein need to be aware of the EAA profiles of different plant foods, but in the real world, people get healthier when they replace animal fat and protein with whole food plant fat and protein.
This is not debunking, you cannot sight a study then possit without évidence the faults in it. It is well established that meat protein is more "bio available" as the protein recepters are not out competed by a bunch of surperfluous molecules surounding the actual protien molécule as plant protein has.
No, this video quite methodically debunks the claims WIL made AND demonstrates the health problems caused by eating a lot of meat.
@@HealingLifeKwikly nope, there are no studies that show meat is harmful, zéro. Observational studies have been done of people self reporting, that is it. There are zéro, let me repeat, zéro interventional studies that show meat is harmful in anyway. If there are any , i am happy to have a look.
@@Savantjazzcollective Speaking as a researcher, here is a point regarding quality research that confuses many people. Randomized controlled nutrition studies can usually only be three years long at most but major chronic diseases develop over 10-70 years. Thus, good observational studies are the correct and superior research design for studying nutrition and most aspects regarding rates of chronic diseases from different diets. Randomized controlled studies literally can't be conducted to answer those questions. And good observational studies clearly and repeatedly provide diets dominated by whole plant foods are healthier overall in the long run.
RCTs DO show harmful effects of things like saturated animal fat in the short run (inflammation, insulin resistance, raising LDL levels), but it takes the longer term studies to tell us whether and how that translates into more disease.
Take care.
@@HealingLifeKwikly 1stly) many long term observational studies have been done in past years with varying results. For example European long term studies vs Asian long term studies. The result? Asian consumers of meat lived longer and European eaters of meat lived shorter lives. Why is this? What about healthy/unhealthy user bias? Do vegans eat often at fastfood joints? probably not, I think its because they are already cognisant of their physical health, where as typically overweight Europeans don't care. 2ndly) We have very few quality observational studies (self reporting) and the studies that might have quality data show that eating less has the biggest affect, not what we eat. I just cannot put my faith in the usual narrative, when people are only getting sicker not healthier as it relates to reducing meat consumption. Carbs and oils are the problem imo. all the best.
@@Savantjazzcollective When you control for other factors, including SES, high red and processed meat is consistently linked to poorer health and greater mortality. The only place you find the reverse is in places where people were literally malnourished, and the meat filled some gaps. However, that is not the situation in developed nations.
"What about healthy/unhealthy user bias?" This is controlled along with lots of other background variables. Furthermore, experimental studies have revealed many of the mechanisms by which more meat and more animal fat causes more disease, including promoting inflammation, insulin resistance, raising LDL/promoting plaque formation, toxic chemicals found at high levels in animal fat, and so on.
"We have very few quality observational studies" There are about a million nutrition studies a year, and plenty of excellent observational studies amongst them.
"I just cannot put my faith in the usual narrative, when people are only getting sicker not healthier as it relates to reducing meat consumption. Carbs and oils are the problem imo" Unfortunately, the research is very clear that many factors drive disease, including more saturated animal fat, more added sugars, more animal protein, more refined carbs, more oils, and more chemicals the body didn't evolve to process. It is ALL of the above and we have excellent research showing that. But you have to differentiate between healthy and unhealthy carbs to have any shot at understanding healthy nutrition--eating lots of refined carbs make you get sicker but eating lots of whole food carbs (truly WHOLE foods) is super healthy.
Take care.
Straw man arguments about hospital wings being full, false dichotomies, and Pokémon jokes, are not convincing.
Protein: a topic that is seemingly most relevant to any discussion on veganism.
You can`t say plant proteins are superior. when a 6 ounce steak has about 42 grams of protein with a complete amino acid chain. you got to eat about 50 ounces of broccoli to get the same amount. Plus you got to eat some other vegetable with it in order for you to get all essential amino acids. giving the only downside to eating meat is some inflammation and an increase risk of disease. Can`t be that bad considering you don`t need to eat as much since meat is so nutrient dense. It is safe to say most people eat way more meat and animal products then they truly need on a daily basis. It has been proven that diets like Mediterranean ones are very healthy and have low risk of any of these problems. As we are omnivores after all with similar digestive tracts to pigs, it quite eerily weird how similar our biology is to that of a pig. Cannibals have been known to claim humans taste like pork, one tribe calls humans long pig.
This out of the blue, but do you think ppl who practiced Abrahamic religions knew something about pigs tasting eerily similar to that of a human. And that’s why they condemn it?
@@CollagenExpert I think it is highly possible. I have come to similiar conclusions as well.
Your argument makes a flawed comparison between plant proteins and meat by using broccoli as an example of plant protein. Here's why the reasoning is incorrect:
1. Misleading comparison: Broccoli is not a significant source of protein. It is a vegetable rich in vitamins, minerals, and fiber, but it doesn't provide a comparable amount of protein to meat. You are making an extreme comparison between a 6-ounce steak (which provides around 42 grams of protein) and broccoli, which would require an impractical amount (50 ounces) to match the protein content.
2. Plant-based proteins: Vegans do not rely on vegetables like broccoli for their protein needs. Instead, they consume plant-based protein sources like soybeans, tofu, tempeh, seitan, lentils, chickpeas, and quinoa, which are complete sources of protein (containing all essential amino acids). These foods are rich in protein and can easily replace meat in a balanced diet.
3. Amino acids in plants: Unlike your argument suggests, it’s not necessary to combine different vegetables to get all the essential amino acids, as many plant-based foods (like soy, quinoa, and buckwheat) already contain complete protein profiles. Vegans can get all essential amino acids from various plant sources throughout the day without needing to combine them in each meal.
4. Nutrient density: While it's true that meat is nutrient-dense, this argument neglects the fact that plant-based diets, when properly planned, can provide all the nutrients the body needs without the health risks associated with excessive meat consumption (such as heart disease or cancer). A well-balanced plant-based diet can be just as nutrient-dense, if not more, due to the high levels of fiber, antioxidants, and lower saturated fats.
5. Inflammation and health risks: The statement that eating meat causes only "inflammation and increased risk of disease" is oversimplified. Research has shown that excessive consumption of red and processed meats is linked to higher risks of chronic diseases such as heart disease, cancer, and type 2 diabetes. A plant-based diet, on the other hand, has been shown to reduce these risks and promote overall health.
6. Omnivore argument: The argument that humans are omnivores and thus should eat meat is based on a simplistic view of evolution. While it’s true that humans are biologically omnivores, modern nutrition and health considerations show that a well-planned plant-based diet can meet all our nutritional needs without the negative health consequences of too much animal product consumption.
In summary, your argument is flawed because it compares broccoli, a poor source of protein, to meat while overlooking the rich variety of alternative plant-based protein sources available to vegans. The comparison between the two is misleading and does not account for the full picture of nutrition, amino acids, and the health implications of different diets.
I noticed he made no attempt to debunk the actual nutritionist or Doctor in the original video as well as he quotes a lot of Chinese and European studies which i bet are funded by the World Economic Forum and other Soros interest groups. The Chinese are also not reducing their animal protein consumption but instead increasing it. He also says that the video doesn't mention having a variety of plant proteins to get enough essential amino acids when in fact he does, he just points out that you have to consume twice as many calories to get all the amino acids necessary to make the plant proteins absorbable. The other thing he forgets to mention even though he loves to talk about hormone effect is the amount of phytoestrogen vegans get with their diet. Too much estrogen for both men and women is a bad thing. He also claims that high meat diets cause inflammation and cancer when in reality it's probably all the sugar and carbs people consume with the meat that causes these issues. I bet if his studies compared clean animal protein diets to clean vegan diets you'd see a significant difference in the positive towards animal protein. The initial comment i made about the WEF and Soros is that it's easier to control people when they're fattened up or made stupid. Also leucine contributes to cancer growth but not it's creation. Inflammation and hormones like estrogen create cancer mutations. I see a higher link to vegans who subsist on carbs having poor health and high cancer rates compared to omnivores who eat clean.
www.foodnavigator-asia.com/Article/2019/04/29/Protein-powerhouse-Asia-the-key-protein-market-by-2025-with-China-and-India-leading-the-charge
www.bbc.com/future/article/20200127-how-a-vegan-diet-could-affect-your-intelligence
www.healthline.com/nutrition/sugar-and-inflammation#TOC_TITLE_HDR_8
" he quotes a lot of Chinese and European studies which i bet are funded by the World Economic Forum and other Soros interest groups. " That's a strange conspiracy theory. Peer-reviewed studies have to pass peer review, and the Chinese are doing amazing things in science, so doubting the validity of Chinese studies just because they are from China is both unscientific and racist.
"he just points out that you have to consume twice as many calories to get all the amino acids necessary to make the plant proteins absorbable." That's simply not true: Vegans can get all the protein they need without overconsuming calories. Vegans on average are the slimmest group--the only one with a normal average BMI in some studies.
"The other thing he forgets to mention even though he loves to talk about hormone effect is the amount of phytoestrogen vegans get with their diet. Too much estrogen for both men and women is a bad thing. " You just mixed up phytoestrogens with estrogens. Eating phytoestrogens BLOCKS the estrogen receptors, so it LOWERS estrogen levels for both women and men (thus lowering cancer risk), without lowering levels of testosterone.
"I bet if his studies compared clean animal protein diets to clean vegan diets you'd see a significant difference in the positive towards animal protein." NO. There are a wide variety of mechanisms by which eating more animal protein simply promotes more disease--he walked through some of them in the video.
Mic already made a video debunking the story you linked to on vegan diets and IQ.
And the research clearly shows that WHOLE food carbs--which is what Mic promotes--REDUCE inflammation and disease.
@@HealingLifeKwikly Oh man taking a classic page out of the SJW playbook by claiming racism and conspiracy theory to discredit an argument super logical. China the Communist country we're potentially going to war with if they invade Taiwan as well as the one that developed a virus that allowed almost every first world nation to turn into a tyrannical police state. That China funds Chinese and European scientists to do a plethora of immoral science. Like weaponizing viruses, cloning humans and trying to push a diet that will enfeeble their enemies to make them easier to conquer and control while making sure their people stay strong and brainwashed into believing they are the chosen race. This rhymes like WW2 Japan. I'm sorry if that's too conspiracy for your liberal idealism.
He never proves that in his video because he never shows the part with the Doctor saying that. Also you saying them being the slimmest totally contradicts his comments that vegans aren't malnourished as well as BMI is bull. Show me a body composition study if you want any weight to your argument there. Being slim doesn't equate to better health, way to body shame.
Phytoestrogen acts just like regular estrogen except not as potent. Which means you need to consume a lot more to get the same affects which happens in a vegan diet. Look up how much phytoestrogen is in soy. Then you'll know how soy boys happen. As well as there are studies that too much soy can increase breast cancer risk.
ruclips.net/video/FTSvLKY7HEk/видео.html
www.breastcancer.org/research-news/soy-may-turn-on-genes-linked-to-cancer
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3074428/
His mechanism don't account for carbs, sugars, or vegetable oils. Also the animal protein diet has the benefit of history behind it. Humans have consumed animals since they were created and have survived this long. Please tell me again how your hippie dippie 1970s diet will make humans healthier. Herbivores are herbivores for a reason and the same with us omnivores.
You're going to use the guy that we are debating about being legitimate to prove one of my points wrong that's like using a word in a definition.
What research? You've provided nothing. Don't link him either as his research is already questionable at best.
Just a last question here. Where's a link to his little amino acid calculator that shows the vegan diet works and DIAAS is useless? Which I point out he never actually disproved how the lack of amino acids required more food aka the statement from the Doctor.
@@FoolyCooly99 "Like weaponizing viruses, cloning humans and trying to push a diet that will enfeeble their enemies to make them easier to conquer and control while making sure their people stay strong and brainwashed into believing they are the chosen race." If you are serious in believing that nations are weaponizing diets, then your conspiracy theory should focus on the U.S. and European countries because it it the exporting of the "Standard American Diet" that is driving increases in disease all over the world. The best recent research clearly indicates that people are healthier when they replace more of the meat and dairy in their diets with whole plant foods. Mic reviewed some of that research in this video, and none of this is relying on Mic's judgment: Peer-reviewed studies clearly show that replacing meat/animal foods with whole plant foods reduces rates of disease and mortality.
For example, “Consuming meat increases the risk of developing heart disease, diabetes, pneumonia, and several other conditions, according to a study published in BMC Medicine. Researchers compared meat intake with adverse health outcomes, including hospitalization and mortality, using data from the UK Biobank study. Those who ate meat three times a week or more had worse health outcomes when compared to those who ate less meat. Results showed higher risks for ischemic heart disease, pneumonia, diverticular disease, colon polyps, and diabetes for every 70 grams of red and processed meat consumed per day. Higher intake of poultry was associated with increased risk for gastroesophageal reflux disease, gastritis and duodenitis, diverticular disease, gallbladder disease, and diabetes. Possible mechanisms for the increased risk for disease include higher intakes of sodium, iron, nitrates and nitrites, bacteria, and saturated fat from consuming meat and higher LDL cholesterol levels and changes in gut microbiota associated with meat consumption. The authors call for additional research on the effects of disease incidence with decreased meat consumption.”
Papier K, Fensom GK, Knuppel A, et al. Meat consumption and risk of 25 common conditions: Outcome-wide analyses in 475,000 men and women in the UK Biobank study. BMC Med. 2021;19(1):53-67. doi: 10.1186/s12916-021-01922-9
“Egg consumption increases risk for all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality, according to a study published in the European Journal of Nutrition. Researchers compared egg intake with mortality risk in 20,562 participants with no cancer or heart disease diagnoses from the Moli-sani Study cohort. After a median 8.2 years, those who consumed more than four eggs per week increased their risk of death from all causes, heart disease, and cancer when compared to those who consumed zero eggs or one egg per week. A more moderate intake of two to four eggs per week increased the risk for cancer mortality and all-cause and heart disease mortality by 22% and 43%, respectively. For participants with hypertension and hyperlipidemia, an increase of one egg per week increased mortality risk. Higher dietary cholesterol and total cholesterol from egg intake accounted for the increased mortality risk. These results suggest that dietary guidelines discourage egg consumption, especially for high-risk individuals with hypertension and hyperlipidemia.”
Ruggiero E, Di Castelnuovo A, Costanzo S, et al. Egg consumption and risk of all cause and cause specific mortality in an Italian adult population. Eur J Nutr. Published online March 24, 2021. doi: 10.1007/s00394-021-02536-w
“Eating plant-based protein instead of animal protein reduces the risk for early death, according to a study published in JAMA Internal Medicine. Researchers compared protein intake and mortality rates of participants in the US National Institutes of Health-AARP Diet and Health Study. Those who ate more plant-based protein reduced their overall risk for death when compared to those who ate less plant-based protein. Results showed replacing 3% of animal protein with plant-based protein from foods such as bread, cereal, and pasta reduced the risk of death from heart disease by up to 12%. These associations were strongest when it came to replacing protein from eggs and red meat with plant protein. These findings support previous research that shows that plant-based protein sources promote better health and longevity.”
Huang J, Liao LM, Weinstein SJ, Sinha R, Graubard BI, Albanes D. Association between plant and animal protein intake and overall and cause-specific mortality. JAMA Inter Med. Published online July 13, 2020.
“Consuming red and processed meat increases the risk for chronic kidney disease, according to a study published in the Journal of Renal Nutrition. Researchers followed diet records for participants from the Tehran Lipid and Glucose Study and tracked protein sources and chronic kidney disease incidence rates. Results showed that those who consumed the most red and processed meat increased their risk for disease by 73% and 99%, respectively, when compared to those who ate the least. Substituting one serving of red or processed meat with a serving of a different protein source such as legumes or grains lowered the risk for disease by up to 30%. Possible protective mechanisms associated with replacing meat with plants include the lower dietary acid load, lower intake of advanced glycation end products, and increased intake of nutrients associated with improved kidney function.”
Mirmiran P, Yuzbashian E, Aghayan M, Mahdavi M, Asghari G, Azizi F. A prospective study of dietary meat intake and risk of incident chronic kidney disease. J Ren Nutr. 2020;30:111-118.
@@FoolyCooly99 "BMI is bull. Show me a body composition study if you want any weight to your argument there. Being slim doesn't equate to better health, way to body shame." I didn't body shame anyone and don't intend to, I am just reporting empirical facts. Older research that created the idea of "healthy overweight" made the mistake of lumping together people who had become slim due to the diseases they had with people who were normal BMI without disease. However, more recent research that corrects for that error finds that the healthiest BMI is 21-22, and disease and mortality climb steadily above that. I can send the link later if you want it, but I have it on one of my other computers.
"Where's a link to his little amino acid calculator that shows the vegan diet works and DIAAS is useless?" Mic laid out the argument pretty clearly: The DIAAS assigns an overall score based on the amino acid for which the food meets the least of the RDA, which totally leaves out the greater satisfaction of other amino acids by that food. Imagine if we similarly reported the micronutrient benefits of foods by simply reporting the vitamin of mineral for which the food provides the least. Almost every food would be rated as a zero if we used that logic, even if it is terrific for providing some micronutrients. Furthermore, as Mic pointed out, people who eat plant foods generally eat a variety of foods, and once you put together common combinations of those foods, the DIAAS score for the combination soars and reaches the "quality protein" range. Mic showed a chart in the video that clearly demonstrated that.
"His mechanism don't account for carbs, sugars, or vegetable oils." It appears we agree that added sugars and oils are unhealthy. Good. As for carbs, there is enormous confusion about this because a) westerners mostly eat highly processed carb foods that contains junk (oils, added sugars, chemicals), b) most research is mostly on the effects of processed carbs or does a poor job of distinguishing between refined carbs, whole but milled carbs, and truly whole food carbs (intact grains), c) commentators and doctors and researchers routinely conflate the different types of carbs, so low-carb gurus virtually always report results of studies that were on processed/refined carbs then turn around and claim all carbs are bad. In reality, the best evidence clearly indicates that whole food carbs are very healthy, and even healthier if you eat the intact forms (e.g., intact grains).
"Also the animal protein diet has the benefit of history behind it. Humans have consumed animals since they were created and have survived this long." There are multiple problems with appealing to the fact we have historically eaten meat, eggs, etc. First, our bodies have changed, and so have the foods. One of the serious problems for animal foods in this regard is that humans have dumped into the environment tens of thousands of toxic chemicals, and these naturally accumulate at high levels in the fat of animals. That reduces the healthfulness of meat compared to pre-industrial times. Second, just because we can live long enough to reproduce and raise our young while eating lots of meat doesn't prove it is the healthiest diet for us. Third, we now have good research proving that eating less meat and more whole plant foods is healthier. That DOESN'T prove a vegan diet is healthiest for you or me or this or that group. But the trend is that better health outcomes come from very low animal food consumption compared to what westerners consider "normal."
@@FoolyCooly99 "Phytoestrogen acts just like regular estrogen except not as potent."
Absolutely false. Phytoestrogens BLOCK the estrogen receptors and reduce estrogen levels in men and women alike. Experimental studies prove that.
"Then you'll know how soy boys happen." Soy boys is largely a myth: Unless you consume truly massive amounts, soy doesn't change testosterone levels at all, and again, it REDUCES estrogen levels.
"As well as there are studies that too much soy can increase breast cancer risk." The research generally and consistently shows that consuming soy LOWERS breast cancer rates and lowers them significantly. The only risks seem to appear in studies where unreasonable/ outlier amounts of soy were consumed.
Funny in Germany most researchers recommend to eat 1g-1.5g of protein per kg body weight 2g if doing intense sports that's really difficult as a vegan. And you just failed to show arguments why diaas is not useful
Nearly on year 7 of doin my best to be out in the world advertising my muscles as a vegan... You know, the muscles that haven't shrunk at all even though I haven't eaten any animal products in 7 years.... I'm sure they'll melt off any day now. It's funny how people are still worried, still ask me about protein, still think they'll lose muscle. Like, use your eyes, I don't have body dysmorphia, I know my arms are nice. Anyway it's heartening to hear 40% of the US doesn't eat "enough" meat.
Muscles, bones and brains evolve by using them.
@@soilikasanen no. Lol
@@jasminejohnson8051 Why do you think ppl go to gym then? To grow muscle. Weight bearing strenghtens bones. Brains loose their capacity if they are not put to work. Better move and think!
@@soilikasanen my apologies, upon re reading I see now that I misunderstood your previous statement. I thought you were trying to say our muscles bones and brained evolved by using them(as in eating animal products). I apologize, and agree with what you said. Have a nice day
@@jasminejohnson8051 No worries 😊💚
I have not heard of anyone having protein deficiency but many who have diabetes, obesity, heart disease etc.
@Aaron Loos which is not protein deficiency which is the topic of the video. Also causes might be same but the rate is quite different.
Damn straight!
@@NiranjanBendre Well said - I guess you've seen Dr Michael Greger's lecture How Not To Die and read the studies 🤓👍
@@soilikasanen certainly! 😅
Which is what carbohydrate consumption causes (diabetes, obesity, heart disease etc). As someone who is genetically insulin resistant, I can attest to the fact that I feel a whole lot better on a ketogenic/carnivore/zero carb diet than I ever did when I was eating the "standard american diet" (or when I was vegetarian/vegan because I did that, too).
At the same time, something like that can be an individualistic situation and it can also be a food quality issue. There are a lot of plant based oils that are just straight up bad for you.
I suppose the biggest thing I've learned from my weird journey is that if you eat nose to tail with animal foods and you make sure they're humanely sourced (i.e. directly from the farmers who love their animals) you can easily meet all of your dietary needs. A quarter of liver contains all of the vitamins and ammino acids you need for a week. That's one liver a month lol. The rest of the meat would follow, realistically.
The biggest issue america has is that they throw away all of the "undesirable" parts of animals that can still be eaten. They are also squeamish about eating other sources of proteins in the form of insects and even other animals (like stray cats and dogs or shelter animals that have to be put down because they couldn't find a home). If people got over their weird aversion to eating insects, cats, and dogs, we could easily reduce the amount of factory farming done which would make everyone happy.
It's easy to trash DIASS, which is a sincere effort to understand and rank protein sources, many of which are less than ideal. It's certainly better than the old PDCAAS system we relied on for years. Unfortunately, it seems some people expect perfection from DIASS. There are obese Americans who protest that the BMI score is less than perfect too, but perfection isn't possible. BMI is still an excellent way to rank body weight, even if it doesn't work for fit, muscular people (sadly, a small minority).
I've done more reading on DIASS scoring, and I was wrong. Mic is right. DIASS scoring is animal-protein biased, and appears to deliberately downplay the value of plant-based proteins. Unfortunately, the meat and dairy industries have a lot of clout and have been successful in distorting the true picture. I say that as a meat and dairy consumer. Mic is increasingly good at making me question my dietary choices.
@@paulmaxwell8851 ah yes, Because one thing is significantly more than another it must mean bias. I guess they have an anti-rice bias too because rice is downplayed in dciass scoring.
As an active 65 year old male, can I age healthfully with enough protein on my vegan diet? I believe I am consuming enough calories.
Just so you know the next time you make a video, you don't make a hole in the side of pigs because that is a technique used on ruminants. You would have to reanalyze the sources of your information.
I recently decided to go to a plant based diet. I talked to a nutritionist at the VA. She was supportive and said as long as I knew about beans and soy products she wasn't worried about protein. Normally she said that was her concern.
So... some people do not know that beans exist or what?
@@Mare0912 I think she is being playful referring to vegans who eat seitan and mock meats almost like they don’t know soy and beans exist, at least I hope so because otherwise yes that would be almost insulting lol
Veganism can be a hard sell so to encourage people what people do is they offer a sort of leniency, while in reality soy is shit(look into George Washington carver and it’s history) and beans in general are not good for humans. some may be able to get away with it while others like myself cannot at all. My Hindu friend finds that he can’t do vegan and he was born vegetarian, he says that ghee really helps the digestion and using a pressure cooker........ for someone who has a long lineage of vegetarians in his family this doesn’t sound very “natural”, I look exactly like mic the vegan and after 15 years of veganism my digestion became horrible, I stuck with it as long as I could...I tried a million things and learned so much but still couldn’t do it.
@@bstring3967 "beans in general are not good for humans"? Do explain.
A lot of beans give me problems and so does soy.
seeds nuts and other forms of protein are availible
Beans and soy!!! 😂😂😂
Will you talk about the weird “anti vegan ancestral eating” side of “holistic” eating and debunk all these people that are obsessed with raw milk and liver and organic meat? And think we “need” cholesterol and saturated fat so when you tell them animal foods are high in both they’re like “good” 💀💀💀
Yes I’m waiting for that one!! 😂😂
THIS. this community has gone off the rails
@@sierrahemp8682 “nooo you need liver for RETINOL vitamin a not BETA CAROTENE” 🤣🤣☹️
@@skatingsarah1996 Preformed vitamin A isn't even a vitamin by defenition of vitamin... Retinol causes oxidative stress and rises the risk for osteoporosis and ATTR, wild type amyloidosis. Carotinoids are vitamins by definition that we can't produce them ourselves.
Yes the raw dairy thing in particular!!
Live stock don't meet this daily intake of protein. We should feed them beef.
@Aaron Loos But plant protein is inferior to animal protein right?
Feed them beef! HAARRRRG!
My grandpa told me there's a beef tree he saw it with his own eye's.
I know right! Humans are weird they have a digestive system of the great apes but end up cooking most foods. Aarron loos cows may have 4 stomachs but its not for the protein its to get more energy out of cellulose.
@Aaron Loos aaaaaaa are you ok in the head. Feed a monkey only meat to prove me wrong. The only way to make meat mostly safe for monkeys to consume is to cook it. Bears are omnivores you can feed them plant foods and raw meat. To me you sound like someone that has never went to science class and decided to chew and smoke Tabaco in the bathrooms. Just because you can eat dirt dose not make you a dirtvore.
No disrespect but this debunks nothing. DIAAS studies show bluntly that animal protein is superior over plant protein. Yes, its possible to have full amino spectrum on plant diet but you'd have to eat SIGNIFICANTLY more calories to do it(the autor mentions that as well) - meat is a better bang for your buck, you eat less and get more nutrition(not only protein but vitamins and minerals). People, don't kid yourself or try to rationolize your diet choices - if you want to be vegan that's absolutely fine, but don't buy into its superiority over "mixed" diet(animal + plants).
"you'd have to eat SIGNIFICANTLY more calories to do it"
More than what? Do you wanna eat as little as possible? And lack energy?
bang for your buck is wrong. Meat is expensive. On my vegan diet, I get 1800 calories a day at a cost of $6. (yeah, I eat less calories than the average Omni.
@@GaryHighFruit
Everyone is different and their lifestyles are different. I used to exploit my body a lot physically - I was unable to regenerate enough being on a vegeterian (no meat) diet. I took supplements etc etc. But it did not work for me. My body was weak and skinny. It just took one weekend off - visiting my mom and grandmother eating a pork-chop or two to see that I'm getting stronger and bigger (not big). I think the smartest way is just to listen to your body and observe it. If you look skinny and unhealthy, get cold easily, tire easily, get sick 4+ times a year, have skin problems, then yeah.. maybe there is something wrong with your diet. You need to have balance. Fruit, veg, meat and dairy its all good if you keep balance.
@@addre113 I was with you until the end when you claimed you had a turnaround in 2 days.
1. Mic DID debunk WIL's biased half-truth video, just like I did and other experts did.
2. you don't have to eat SIGNIFICANTLY more calories to get enough protein. This has been proven not only by both halves of the science, but by fruitarians winning marathons against omni's.
Now that I think about it, your story could be true, in that you felt stronger. Now that doesn't mean you WERE stronger or the meat gave you something plants didn't. It could mean the meat took you out of a level of detox. When the body is in detox, it will take energy from your own use to use for the detoxing. Or there could be other things happening. But the problem was not protein.
What? U get more nutrition w meat? No way, I almost died eating dead rotten carcasses!
I think you need to get better educated on meat protein by a biochemist such as Dr. Milton Mills in this excellent video: ruclips.net/video/05pe-dzwvNg/видео.htmlsi=-IXFrm2BnmhSDCJP
0.8-1.3G of protein is the best depending on your goals but 0.8g will ensure you keep muscles if you are trying to lose weight
Went full vegan for 2 months and felt great, in the end you'll feel great if you eliminate heavily processed foods. But in terms of weight lifting for me personally, meat and raw dairy products have proved dividend for my performance in the gym. To each their own.
Sounds like you need more protein from grains and lentils.
@@fmartin59grains are not good as a source of protein, their protein is gluten, you might have heard of it, 75% of people are gluten sensitive.
Yes the amount of strong vegans is pretty telling.
@@fmartin59Grains have way less protein than people give them credit for. Legumes rock, though.
It's so odd when I see you quote studies that are at odds with my personal experience.
I eat alot of eggs and red meat. My CRP is as close to 0 as you can get and my LDL is lower than yours.
I guess it just shows that different people tolerate different diets.
Good video Mic! My issue with the protein comparison that's everyones favourite discussion point right now, isn't actually anything to do with protein, but the often made comparison between highly processed, plant based fake meats (impossible, beyond et all) and animal food sources. I don't touch those highly processed fake 'plant based' foods, and I'm not a fan of the continued expansion of plant based processed slop - it opens up a not so weak argument that animal foods are superior from a health stand point. Whole food plants for the win.
Most of the plant-based analogues are not slop: They are carefully formulated to be higher in beneficial micro and macro nutrients, and lower in the less beneficial or harmful ones. They are _designed_ to be superior to animal proteins to directly compete with them. I think we are lucky to have so many different foods that can compete with dead animal.
@@tamcon72 are you serious? Or is that just what you've read and want to believe? Just for starters, research isolated proteins, pea, soy etc. I'd love to hear an argument for the health benefits of canola oil also. I'm not a nutritionist, I am however a doctor, and I don't recommend fake meat to patients. Whole foods are undeniable carriers of inherently better nutrition for your body. As for plant based fake meats being designed to be superior nutritionally, the CEO of Impossible has stated several times that the hierarchy of needs for their products is: Replicates the taste, texture and appearance of real meat. Go figure.
@@Samuel-bu7xr I'm a trained cook and I am basing my estimation on the ingredients and nutrition profile of new gen analogues. Also, the CEO of Beyond Meat has stated what I did, as has the CEO of Impossible on other occasions. They are improvements on animal foods.
Certainly, many analogs are high in sodium and saturated fat, so a doctor should not be recommending them, but they are almost without exception lower in these less beneficial components than the animal version, so a better choice than those. I am not comparing them to whole plant foods, which I favor.
@@tamcon72 agree to disagree. I'd recommend fish over Beyond or Impossible meat to a patient. Whole plant foods we agree are great
@@Samuel-bu7xr You'd recommend an animal filled with pollutants, including neurotoxins, over an analogue product synthesized from whole plant foods? I'm beginning to doubt your earlier statement.
Too many emotionally-charged sentances, too many pauses to just make fun of, and the amount of though provokation is so little that it barely registers. All that is just a rant that tries to be convincing but is not.
17:45 This study where vegan children were supposedly shorter and had weaker bones than non-vegan children, it's actually a miscalculation of mean. Nutrition Made Simple tackles this specific study.
‘What I’ve learnt’ still stuck in his meaty universe. Am sure he has a couple of sponsored freezers filled with flesh. Love the word ‘meat-case’ classic. Always look forward to yours and PlantChompers’ debunks. Just facts no shit.
Very good, thanks. I commented with my other identity, but another point occurred to me: many people, perhaps slightly more so here in India, demonise potatoes. So it's good to hear your endorsement of them from the protein aspect. I make sure to eat some potato every day: I know they have their benefits and I like them. The famous study from Israel showed that of all foods studied potatoes were the most satiating. Of cpurse, they would be good in a mixed diet, though people have lived on just potatoes for long periods. Even here in India, simple delicious less costly plant foods like potatoes, bananas and legumes are feared and/or despised by many, considered inferior, fattening or gas causing. People are dazzled by animal food generally, chicken, paneer (cottage cheese), cheese, meat... sigh. So it goes. Anyhow thanks for another impressively researched and analysed video and a necessary one.
ayo mate, where in India, I live in Delhi and there seems to be a love for potatoes, Aloo-matar, aloo tamatar, and stuff, dum aloo, there is no shortage of potatoes, Also the potato is the perfect vegetable since it comes in the proportion that should be eated, a fist. It's like nature's most optimal vegetable. Potatoes and Pea with Wheat Roti, perfectly complete food, and cheap, very cheap
Potatoes are one of the healthiest foods on the planet! Look at Spud fit on youtube, he was fat and sick, after eating only potatoes for a year, he gets slim and healthy.
@@DasFrageMonster yes, I've seen his videos, Australian person I think. Others too, subsisting on only or mainly potatoes.
Quick question, but the reason people in India don't eat potatoes is religious reasons? I recall some have religious reasons to not eat onion and garlic as well
Yeah I'm sad that Ayur Veda thinks they are tamasic or whatever.
Bottom line is: people's bodies do not respond the same to the same food. That being said, animal protein is still the best source of protein out there.
@dyldabeast9176 - Brainwash by science??? In dietetics we learn that meat has 70% of its protein absorbed, legumes, 60% and the rest, 50%. You can say all you want that being vegan is more ethical, it is good for the planet, it is morally right, but claiming it is healthier, it is a bit of a stretch.. I am a dietician, it is not... it is a diet that I highly admire whoever follows it, because when you cut an important food group of food out, you remove a lot of important nutrients with it. We do not absorb plant nutrients as well as animal sources. You have to eat triple to hit the same target. I wish vegans would understand this. The vegan diet has one and only purpose, protect animal lives from suffering and pain. That alone is just enough. There is no need to mask everything with the "healthy" label, because it is not. A healthy diet comprises all food sources animal and plants, combined they are just perfect.
I understand that those would be just claims of a random person. But I followed wfpb diet for an 8 months. I was very motivated and strict. Every day I was feeling mentally and physically worse. I was anxious and irritated. I wanted to eat all the time. Beans made me so bloated that it hurt. I lost one third of my hair. And I did my investigation. In order to get all the recommended Ca from kale, you’ll need to eat it as much as it will suppress the thyroid. And that’s what happened to me. I gained weight over these months. Even though I wasn’t eating refined sugars.
Now I’m on keto. The only plant food that I eat is a few tbsp of almond flour and sunflower butter. My energy levels are higher, I sleep better, my waist line dropped to the level of the way it was when I was 25. My skin is glowing. I’m more focused. I do believe that vegan diet could be good for some people. Like keto. It’s a spectrum. Every person has to listen to their bodies.
To be fair, you say a lot of vegans have above average protein in the blood, but a lot of them seem to be of very skinny frame from what i've seen. Is it just a lack of exercise or something deeper?
Probably because some don’t exercise and they are an actual healthy weight
Man who cherry picks data tries to debunk man with cherry picked data. Lmao.
But then who is correct? I'm eating nothing at this rate
No, Mic didn't cherry-pick any data he. He dismantled WIL's misuse of DIAAS data and cited a whole bunch of data proving plant protein is decisively healthier than animal protein.
@RUclips Account I'm a university-based researcher, and I study nutrition and how people get confused about it. That is just what the facts show. Plant protein is generally healthier, and diets dominated by whole plant foods result in the best overall long-term health outcomes. And we know lots of reasons that explain that pattern of results.
Take care.
@@HealingLifeKwikly Mic cherry-picked data just like anyone else would to prove their point. Can't wait for someone else to make a video to dismantle Mic's misuse of data and citing a whole bunch of data proving animal protein is decisively better than plant protein. Thus, the cycle continues and nothing gets solved. No one who truly cares is conceding or reaching a middle ground, it is just tribalism and it enriches these grifters.
@RUclips Account I just checked my email, don't see anything from you.
you cannot 'debunk' anything with associative, self-reported, and adjusted data. you cannot even reliably establish correlation in most cases.
but since the video you're debunking is apparently relying on the same sort of pseudoscientific 'research', it's really just two clowns talking in circles.
21:50 I was diagnosed with MS in 2002, at the time I was a vegetarian, eating a lot of eggs - and dairy products. I was vegetarian "for the animals", but calorie-wise, I just swapped the flesh for more eggs and more dairy products.
I've been symptom free from around 2005, when I went vegan. I heard about the dairy / MS connection over a decade ago, at first I didn't think much of it, since my doctor told me "food has nothing to do with it"..... But I have since then read more and heard several stories from people with MS, that their symptoms are either gone or much better.
I had the opposite experience. After several years on a whole foods, home cooked vegan diet my previously benign MS became very aggressive (and I experienced numerous other health problems too). When I went back to eating animal foods, my health improved dramatically and I now have had no relapses for more than 10 years.
@@eulalia3446 it just goes to show we dont know much about the disease and if a diet works for you stick with it but dont preach to others the qmway you eat is the solution. autoimmine disease is complicated and the gut is complicated, where big portion of our immune sytem is at. even gut microbe experts dont evrrything about gut bacteria and they tell you otherwise they lieing. the one thing i hate about these diet studies is that people take them as fact. in science its hard to prove anything and that ia why academics usr words like association and etc. think math. x and y. x increasing doesnt mean y has to increase. and etc
Vitamin B-12 deficiency mimics MS symptoms. B-12 is only (naturally) available in animal sources, and long-term lack is fatal.
@@kellyschlumberger1030 true. but takes long time to deplete b12. this is what my doctor told me when i asked for my b12 levels checked. but i could be wrong. and your right b12 deficiencies do act like ms and i heard it puts you at risk of developing into ms as well if sucetiable
Check out Dr. Brooke Goldner. She had lupus and has basically cured an incurable disease in herself. I have lupus and RA so I’m trying to change my eating to mostly vegan and do her green smoothies. I don’t know a lot about MS so I’m not sure how much it could help but I know it will help some. I can tell when I eat processed foods and when I eat healthy foods. I’m just trying to find ways to eat healthy and make it easy and convenient. When I don’t feel good I’m bad to just grab something to shut my stomach up. And that usually doesn’t end up being anything good for me. I also don’t enjoy cooking. I can cook I just don’t like to. So I relied on convenience foods a lot. Now I’m trying to find ways to make the healthy foods convenient. I wish you all the best with your health!!!
Literally did my entire PhD on (mainly muscle) protein structure/function and I'm now a protein expression and characterization scientist. So this protein myth annoys me so much! What bothers me the most is plant proteins are actually much better in quality than animal protein!
@RUclips Account oh look we got an esteemed student of RUclips University trying to be smartass in front of an actual researcher . I think you should engage with your types and leave real stuff to educated people.
Btw, how is YOUR research going? did you do enough google searches and watch enough propaganda videos today?
Even though I’m only a cyclical vegan, I appreciate Mic’s passion and intelligence. He makes some very good points, exaggerates others. My own take: veganism does tend to reduce muscle mass, but it does boost cancer inhibition and longevity, if done properly, for many, maybe most people
You're ignorant. I know of many long term fruitarians that are high-level athletes.
Maybe you're right and WIL is wrong, but to be honest, your somewhat cavalier attitude makes it difficult for me to take you seriously. WIL at least keeps things at a neutral and objective sounding tone. Your little jokes and puns give me the impression that you're trying to undermine WIL rather than look for the truth.
Nevertheless, I did find value in this video, but I really think your attitude communicates an us vs them sentiment.
Appreciate you doing this even though it is repetitive for you. Keep up the fight.
diet is so personalized though. carbs made me diabetic and meat got me off medication. if I went vegan I'd be back on my medication in a week or less
"vegan" is so broad. you could be eating vegan and your diet is trash.
😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱 how dare you. VeGaNiSm iS gReAt fOr ThE eNvIrOnMeNt.
No you wouldn't. It's your excuse to maintain your bad habits. The right plant based diet will benefit anyone. You were eating the wrong carbs simple as that. BEANS and LEGUMES make nobody diabetic.
I'm note sure about that though. I believe it is even recommended by doctors to avoid some legumes if you're diabetic.
@@stevenpham6734
Absolutely no. BEANS and legumes will reverse type 2 diabetes. Alot of these doctors are clueless.
thanks so much mike for all youve done and continue to do for us all
Were you able to get the whole shaft in?
Thus video and comment section just goes to show that most vegans are unsure about themselves and need their beliefs to be justified even if it is shill. This is a simple matter. Look at the highest quality person in each dietary category and see who tends to be healthier. Omnivorous humans are almost always stronger, happier, and have more energy. I have cooked food at many different restaurants over many years and vegans hands down are the most unhappy, self-loathing, and complain the most. They rarely smile unless sugar is at their lips or they are putting somebody down.
The Vegan lifestyle is not appropriate for all. I have severe IBS. Most vegan protein sources cause me debilitating cramps and diarrhea. Meat, whether red, chicken, or fish is much easier for my body. I cannot eat any legumes, or anything processed from legumes, cruciferous veggies (except one bite only), no garlic, onion, stone fruits, mushrooms, or lactose. It is hell trying to eat out anywhere.
The protein in plants are botanical defense proteins designed to protect against predation.
Fact.
Look it up.
@@GarlandFarms I believe you but I cannot digest them. Each person’s body is different.
@@6248cjl
I am not telling you that those proteins are for defending you, I'm telling you those proteins are there to protect the plant Those proteins harm you on purpose. The plant has DNA it's trying to pass down. Some plants have defenses like hard bark, thorns, defensive chemicals like poison Ivey. Plant proteins are weapons
Sounds like you ruined your gut microbiome
My POV: A person can find research that supports their beliefs or ideas about food. The bottom line is that the human body is extremely adaptable and can survive and grow on a variety of diets. My criticism is that to be a healthy vegan, one needs to consume x amounts of x, y & z daily to equal eating a steak AND most vegans I know don't actually eat much vegetables, they mostly survive on pasta breads and cereals, i.e., processed grains. I think that factory processed foods is what typically makes us sick-- not eating or eliminating specific food groups.
Debunked? Debunked WHAT exactly? The only take away from WIL video is simple: omnivores have an easier time fulfilling their protein needs, as in, it's less complicated. Why get so damn pissy about this simple fact?
How about the very first claim from WIL as an example: about 40% of the US population doesn't meet the minimum protein requirement. That claim is completely false and debunked in this video.
I’ve watched both videos and at the end of the day, do what makes your body feel right! Data can be used to manipulate individuals/prove your point when taken out of context. I enjoyed your alternate points, but thought you could’ve done a better job staying away from the “eating red meat will kill you sooner” aspect. It’s a really tough argument in my opinion, but as long as you pair your eating habits with adequate exercise, you should be fine. For context I’m 5’7”, 160lbs, consume around 3000 calories, 160P, 90F, 330C, and exercise 5 times a week. If you think eating vegan/vegetarian is the key to longevity/happiness/sustainability, go for it! Let’s educate each other rather than bashing either side.
It is important to identify what is true. Would it make sense to state that the premise that "smoking cigarettes is healthy" is as valid as the premise that "not smoking cigarettes is healthy?" If one is willing to keep an open mind, there is clear evidence that animal products are not only not beneficial, but harmful to human health. The China Study is a good place to start for anyone interested in exploring the topic.
My man whether you're right or wrong, you come off as exceptionally one sided and angry. Not a great way to sway opinions when all I hear is "his video was trash and his info is trash, meat bad, plants good." Just some food for thought.
I am vegetarian and workout daily, but I have agree meat based protein is superior in terms of quality.
Bro whey protein is better for absorption imo but yeah meat and egg makes fill full and satiated for a very long time 🥩
Great work bro, I am a vegan for 17yrs, a natural call, nobody inspired me or recommended it for me, I just turn vegan a day and that is my journey and never watched back. It's the best thing that happened to my life. Continue the great work, love from Ghana, a country where vegetarian are rare, and being even a vegetarian is tough, so guess been vegan? But I still go on!
You are inspiring!
I don't think you can call an unnatural approach to living (having an unbalanced diet) a "natural call"
@@Big_Dai that's your own cup of tea, I have been doing this for 19yrs, never been rushed to the hospital in this 19yrs, don't get regularly headaches, stomachaches, body pains and all various I see people suffer from over here because of their diet. And it is absolute nonsense to think that eating a plant based diet is not balanced diet, there are so many varieties of plants to mix up correctly to get all that you need for your body, guess you are missing a lot. In 19yrs this crap you just said, shows how lazy and inexorable you are to do your research and it easy for you to comment without any evidence.
Don't know if it is just me, but the travel link doesn't work :(
But with that said, nice work on debunking the claims that plant proteins are inferior, and as always, thx for sharing insights in how to better the vegan diet, which is indeed the best all-around diet, especially when you eat a variety of foods, as is natural but still nice to know ^_^
I FIXED IT! Thanks so much for letting me know: my.trovatrip.com/public/l/poll/micthevegan
So you just replaced questionable researches by the same, but matching your own opinion. You literally made the same error.
No, he literally showed that a) protein intake is not a concern for Americans, and in fact, we eat too much animal protein, b) the DIAAS global protein score IS totally misleading, c) a lot of research shows that plant protein is healthier overall, as are diets dominated by whole plant foods. Speaking as someone who teaches and researches nutrition, this is well-established in the field.
@@HealingLifeKwikly I was not so intrested by researches pertaining US as I am not from US, but 17:39 example disturbed me. Author no doubt doesnt seem to see difference between HDL nad LDL cholesterol, where vegan an vegetarian children had biggest difference, not mentioned about B12 defficiency, vitamine D defficiency. Also no word that researchers stated : "The vegetarians’ nutrient intake
suggests a more processed type of PBD, which might explain
their worse CVD risk profile". Is that responsible approach?
@@Veriv213 "Author no doubt doesnt seem to see difference between HDL nad LDL cholesterol, " I don't see what you are talking about: The chart shown on the screen clearly creates one tier that includes too high on LDL AND too low on HDL (although HDL under 45 actually isn't necessarily a problem if you have healthy LDL of 35-70).
"not mentioned about B12 defficiency, vitamine D defficiency. " Mic has made other videos clearly addressing the nutrients that vegans and vegetarians need to be sure to get (including B12 and D). However, the focus here is de-bunking the SPECIFIC claims WIL noted, so this whole segment focuses on de-bunking the idea that plant-based diets are unnaturally "stunting" children.
"Also no word that researchers stated : "The vegetarians’ nutrient intake
suggests a more processed type of PBD, which might explain their worse CVD risk profile". Is that responsible approach?" You CAN create heart disease either by eating lots of saturated animal fat and cholesterol OR by eating lots of highly-processed carbs and added sugars. Again, in this segment, Mic's focus is just on debunking the stunting claim, so there's no reason to expect him to wander off and discuss other aspects of a study that WIL brought up. The vegans had better LDL numbers, which is the main causal risk factor for heart disease. More generally, the diets that have achieved the very best results for preventing, stopping, and reversing heart disease are very low fat plant-based and vegan diets.
So again, I don't see reasonable grounds for complaining about what Mic did here, nor for claiming he did just what WIL did. He didn't.
Take care.
@@HealingLifeKwiklySorry I missed our answer. I dont see chart related to lower HDL and is is some kind of news to me that too low HDL is good in growth phase under some circumstances. Can you provide source?
Also is good that you mentioned that there is a possibility of increasing CVD risk related to non-balanced diet, not to strictly eating meat. Researchers did not provide any comment stating that actually eating meet is related to risk increase. Cultural context also should not be missed as in Poland all kids attempting to kindergarten and almost all in elementary school are covered by public catering. At least 2 meals a day provided by school. Meat is not considered as allegren. It means if you want your kid to follow vegan/vegetarian diet, you have put lot of effort to provide it on your own. It brings us to another issue, as have been compared random groups of omnivoron kids and kids following probably more expensive(better quality) diet. Despite it those kids were shorter and had lower BMI.
So yes, it is reasonable to compain what he did here. Neophic zeal.
@@Veriv213 "and is is some kind of news to me that too low HDL is good in growth phase under some circumstances."
It is not "too low" HDL, it is simply lower HDL, and it is perfectly healthy if you have a healthy (lower) LDL level because if you have less LDL< you don't need as much HDL to clear the excess LDL away. So, in America, if you doctor if caught up on the research, and they see your LDL is 65, they are not going to think it is a problem that your HDL is in the 40s.
The whole Polish study is ridiculous because
1) kids who are taller at one point in childhood may wind up shorter later, as Mic pointed out from the research,
2) being taller earlier has been linked to more health problems later,
3) there is no reason to think that being an inch of two taller is healthier or better than being an inch or two shorter. Shorter people live longer.
We have lots of research that shows that after adjusting for other variables, plant protein is healthier overall, and that people should eat less meat and more whole plant foods.
Take care.
I trust WIL over you, because he simply looks healthier and has a better body composition. So his advice is more reliable as his methods demonstrably work better.
You'd have to be a bit more specific about IGF1 and Leucine.
IGF1 is triggered by many things and leucine is not the main cause. Also it does not increase cancer rate or proliferation in general, only in mammarian cancer.
It is however very important for many other functions, for example bone growth, creation of proteoglykans, collagens and matrixproteins and is important for vitamin d3 metabolism.
Also FASN is just a normal part of liver metabolism for exporting energy as Acetyl-COA into VLDL for fat storage and is also triggered by virtually every macronutrient (to different degrees).
So saying "Don't eat animal protein because cancer" is really disingenious.
Also every "study" (mostly observational studies or surveys) that tried to show food correlation (correlation! not causation) with cancer fail to exclude other factors, lifestyle choices in general.
Also 17:22 .. ORANGE JUICE? Are you serious? Maybe read a paper about fructose metabolism and cancer. THAT has been actually proven to have causation, not just correlation.
21:40 probably should quote the whole conclusion..
" Low-carbohydrate diets were associated with a significantly higher risk of all-cause mortality and they were not significantly associated with a risk of CVD mortality and incidence. *However, this analysis is based on limited observational studies and large-scale trials on the complex interactions between low-carbohydrate diets and long-term outcomes are needed*."
I’ve been looking into this topic for quite some time and what I found out is that the protein source doesn’t matter at all. "Digestibility" scores are are misnomer, because they do not calculate any digestibility, only amino-acid content. We digest and absorb protein from plants and meats pretty much the same: if you cook, you digest and absorb more; if not, you digest and absorb less.
No professional protein guidelines specify different protein requirements depending on the source. If you’re a professional athlete, you can possibly - maybe - potentially - consider adding some 10 grams of vegan protein more to your shake if you care so much about every gram of protein, because who knows, you might benefit from it. It’s a waste of money, time and effort for everyone else.
that is a lie. just accept meat has the best source of protein and nutrients. no need to sound like a vegan religious zealot
@@GarudaLegends If you want ME to even remotely consider what you’re saying (let alone "accept" this religious mantra "eat meat or else!"), you better have good credentials and reliable sources. Otherwise you’re just a random kid online wasting your own and everybody else’s time.
Any bodybuilder or professional athlete would laugh in your face for saying something so ridiculous. You ever wonder why a vegan has never won a gold medal at any olympic sport?
@@MrFreeGman Track and field athlete David Verburg is a three-time Olympic gold medalist. He started his journey into veganism in 2018, which was inspired by his advocacy and love for animals.
Carl Lewis is one of only four athletes to have won nine Olympic gold medals during his career as a runner. He’s been fueled by a plant-based diet for over 25 years now.
Trained figure skater and Olympic gold medalist Meagan Duhamel has lived a plant-based lifestyle since 2008.
Soccer star and Olympic gold medalist Alex Morgan adopted a vegan lifestyle in 2017 and has not looked back ever since.
It’s ok to admit you don’t know something, but spreading obvious misinformation is very unhelpful to your cause.
@@UTF016 All of those athletes were eating meat while building their foundations. They became vegans after they were already at the highest level. It's like men who put on a wig and convert to being a woman a week before the event and then claim that they represent women. No one's buying it other than the cultists.
Not getting enough protein could cause disease. I think it's crazy that you just discounted that because there's no official people going to the hospital.
To be fair though, meat has so much more protein per calorie than plants so if you're into bodybuilding, it'll be a lot harder to do so as a vegan. Maybe with a lot of protein powder.
That is one of the points from the video that he conveniently skipped. I don't care for vegan/keto diets, I'm omnivore and I just want to eat healthy, but all these lies from people backed by meat industry(carnivores/keto) or big pharma(vegans) are making it much harder than it needs to be.
@@АртёмСавостин-н9щ Yeah, if you look at the centenarians of Sardinia they have no particular restrictive diet but everything thet eat is local and organic+lots of wine and dancing. That's what I learned from my family in Greece, good food, low stress levels and a realtively active lifestyle=long life.
dietary cholesterol ≠ serum cholesterol
finally said.
Bro hemp seeds have the craziest amino acid profile with very high digestibility. Their isolates will be magic.
So so so many benefits including perfect omega-6:omega-3 ratio. Also they have SDA which gets converted to EPA more easily than fish oil! Their plants are ultra useful and agriculture is highly sustainable. They are the future. The answer had to be vegan. Truth wins always.
Please make a video on this one and educate the curious ones. Thank you.
Very nice. I enjoy coming to your page for updated bookmarks for lecture materials.
You seem just as biased, if not more, than this original RUclipsr. Not to mention you sound very triggered. Which wouldn’t be a surprise since you are a vegan, so probably super against anything that would suggest meat as being acceptable let alone supierior
Potato has 2gm protein/ 100g. 100 gm potato is 77 calories. To get just 40 gm protein from potato one needs to eat 1500 calories. You wanna go obese, that’s how you go obese.
Why are you cherry picking certain foods. Legumes are much higher in protein, vegan protein powder and other sources.
@@cydeYT lol vegan protein powder. That's funny. Showing how you don't know what you are talking about.
@@JustSomeGuy009 I’m talking about protein content in foods. Legumes and vegan protein powders are higher in protein than potato.
The fact that you use "stained public toilets" as an evidence that there is an over-consumption of protein is quite silly and completely irrelevant, you know that right?
I never thought Id subscribe to a vegan guy. 😮 I love the depth of your research.
You can't force your views on other people. Face facts,most people who eat meat! Deal with it! Your views are yours,not every one else's. You're making Being vegan a religion and a political movement it's absurd. Grow up!
What force are you talking about? What religion? What politics?
Thanks, stranger from RUclips!
I've cut down on my meat intake in the past, but was fooled by WIL's video and went back to being a full time meat-eater. Finding out that I'm a gullible person hurt, but I also attribute part of that to wanting the easy way out (thinking about nutrition and learning new recipes feels like hard work and a lot of effort to me, because pretty much every meal in my childhood contained some form of animal protein), now I feel like a fool. WIL preyed on my confirmation bias and he got me good...
I see myself as a man of science though, and the evidence and arguments you've provided made it unmistakenly clear, that I need to dive deeper into the mess of nutrition science and change my diet once again!
So thanks, for setting me straight and showing me my bias, even though it hurt to accept it.
Subscribed!
@RUclips Account Well, WIL DOES get the science wrong on plant vs. animal protein AND on the ecological impacts of beef.
@RUclips Account Plant protein is bioavailable enough that anyone eating ample amounts of a variety of different plant foods will be covered. For every EAA, there are multiple plant foods with DIAAS scores of 100 or higher, and for all but one, there is at least one plant food with a score over 110. Furthermore, getting protein from plants is healthier in other ways.
Take care.
@RUclips Account Two thoughts. First, it's a little more complicated than your first line: Some plant proteins DO have excellent bioavailability, including soy, mycoprotein, and potatoes. However, the QUANTITY of protein most people get from soy will be higher than the other two.
Second, yes, this shouldn't be a problem if you are getting enough protein from a variety of plant foods. And everyone eating plant-based eats a variety of plant-protein-containing foods (I get 20 g of protein every day just from the kale I eat). Also, different plant foods actually have excellent scores for one or more essential amino acids, so once you combine them together, it covers the bases well (lysine is the hardest base to cover, and some people eating plant-based could fall short on lysine if they aren't getting enough legumes, potatoes, soy, etc.)
But before I even get to lunch, I will have eaten maybe 15 different protein-containing foods across the morning (including a 7-grain cereal), and will be somewhere in this ballpark:
2 cups soy milk: 14 g protein
2 thick slices homemade bread: ~16 g
Spicy bean dip on the bread: 5 g protein
3 cups kale: 6.6 g protein
Big bowl of heritage flakes: 8 g protein
Bowl steel cut oats: 7.5 g protein
Banana: 1.3 g protein
OK, so I’m not yet to my spicy rice & beans lunch, and I’m around 58.4 g of protein already, and have gotten in good carb-loading to give me energy for the day. I’ll end the day at around 100 g of protein, which is more than 1 g/kg of bodyweight. (and I'm clearly not starving!)
Take care.
If it makes you feel any better, I also had a phase of eating a lot of meat due to a WIL video, and also felt like an idiot at the end of it when Plant Chompers showed me the error of my ways. Am vegan now and, so far, not suffering from kwashiorkor.
"Wow, I can't believe a RUclipsr would influence my diet decisions. Thank you for teaching me to change my diet decisions mr. RUclipsr!"
I was vegan for 2 years. I had horrible health. My skin worsened, I look older, my libido dropped, had numerous gut problems due to the gut irritants and inflammatory ingredients in plants. As soon as I went more carnivore, they virtually all went away in a week
I'm vegan since I was a kid. I feel fine and had no skin problems. Debunked?
@@moonman2051 How do you "debunk" something like that, without knowing the individual's body chemistry?
@@endlessnameless7004 you can't. Op used fear tactics about veganism. I simply provided my own experience.
@@moonman2051 His problems sound mostly like bad gut bacteria/super low calorie diet. Low libido is a big sign of low calorie intake.
No you didnt
Sorry to say, I just don't agree with you and I agree far more with the What I've Learned channel, both from the better thoroughness of his study compared to yours and notable personal experience.
I will grant you that there are a handful of notable vegetarians/vegans that can stay that way for most of their lives (typically celebrities that can afford personal nutritionists to help maintain their diet). But the vast, vast VAST majority of vegetarians/vegans I've met are sickly, weak looking bone-racks that cannot handle intense physical workouts; I'm also a martial artist and have sparred with vegans. They have NO POWER and get steamrolled.
I personally also carefully considered one of his videos where he explained thoroughly how carbs like bread, potatoes, cereal etc were a serious problem, including that one excellent interview with a nutritionist who went low-carb himself and reversed his diabetes with it. I did that myself, completely changing my breakfast (was cereal every day for years, now gone) and hard-cutting having pasta, rice and potatoes for as many meals as possible, and INCREASED my meat intake, I still do eat veggies with it. And my health IMPROVED far faster than I ever expected; I'm shedding excess weight at a surprising rate without increasing my exercise routine, I'm physically stronger and more endurant, and sleep debt does not affect me as much. I was not expecting it to have this beneficial of an effect this quickly. And I've had a couple of vegetarian meals with friends since this started...they did NOT WORK. I was hungry, quickly, craving very specific foods that weren't in those meals.
Seems like eat less meat is what i got out of this
Yes finally! I did ask for this response a couple video back. I’m glad the most credible vegan RUclipsr is doing a response to this😁 thank you Mic
Most credible?
@@mikean7074 Pretty darn credible though, or do you see many "debunking this Mic the Vegan guy" around? ;)
Youre the man. I saw the video you de-bunked and i was seriously debating on if i should stick with the plant based lifestyle and safe to say now i will not make the change lol. Keep doing the amazing work you do we really appreciate it!!
Try carnivorous diet, than decide. Don't listen to scammers, especially vegans.
you should definitely make the change lol you can “debunk” anything with enough cherry picking research..carnivore diet + fruit all the way
I'm considering wading into this mess after watching a few videos. My conclusion is simply being omnivorous is the obvious choice, with a predominant selection of plant based foods. Eggs, for example, have such a high biological value and extremely nutritious, that if you can find a supplier and deal with humane concerns, there's literally no reason to not eat them. Super efficient, free (the chickens will lay them anyways), easily digestible, immensely versatile. Too useful and healthy not to use. The only reason not to is harm to the chickens, but if you control for that, then eating them everyday is a massive boost to high quality protein intake.
Nutrition is a really annoying subject to learn about but if I learned anything from this video, it's that you can't trust anyone who compiles the information for you. I'm not vegan or even vegetarian and I only watched this to find out the truth from the other video. It always turns out to be far more complicated and people always leave out information. Even though this channel has highlighted mistakes in the original video, I wouldn't subscribe because I think it's more important that people just research things themselves instead of latching onto another youtuber for information on nutrition. Nevertheless, I'm thankful for this video to help me come to that realisation. I've seen debunks of debunks of debunks and it gets really tiring. Everyone is just looking for information supporting what they already believe to be true and everyone has an agenda. The meat industry is likely protected by a plethora of powerful things but I wouldn't believe for a second that the veganism industry doesn't or won't do the exact same thing. It's exhausting listening to and surrounding yourself with people who wouldn't admit they like feeling better than others. People in the comments joking about What I've Learned not really learning anything or "carnists" being people who jump to the next claim while entirely ignoring data. Finding amusement in a way that makes themselves feel superior or generalising entire groups as ignorant.
Sorry for ranting but ultimately I'm buying science textbooks, reading published scientific papers and trusting how my own body feels and performs. I hope everyone eventually does the same or something similar.
yes this is a major problem and a very difficult one too. I am trying to go vegan but I'm not actively looking for information to support my lifestyle. I want unbiased facts, which is hard to get when watching a video where someone obviously has a side. and it'll take alot longer to do all this research yourself
@@hammy9800 It definitely is longer. I looked at the sources from the original video and if you want to be accurate and informative, it would take hours just to read it let alone compile it into a video. I suspect most RUclipsrs who research things and compile them often skim or miss things because it's extremely difficult not to. The source about increasing the average protein intake from .8 to 1.2/3 was a study on OLD WOMEN. I'm not an old woman or even and old man yet but it's just so easy to misinform. Everyone needs to learn to think for themselves or we will just lap up information that we like to hear from smiling charismatic pseudo celebrities.
@@hammy9800 Very difficult to get unbiased facts, everyone has an agenda unfortunately, including this video.
Try eating vegan, and like, having blood actually flowing to your muscles. It's 2022. I build muscle even easier on whole foods/plant-based. Lol "what I've learned" yeah I learned some things too, thanks again to mic
With all due respect Mic, you provided a lot of good information in this video but your (many) personal attacks just made it unwatchable for me.
average pretentious vegan
@@stoppls1709 for real
If someone can convince me we are inferior to the animals we eat, I'll become vegan.
@Shimmy Shai Because that's how nature works.
@@Fenomenality Interesting logic.
Most vegans I've met, always tired despite eating big dishes of legumes and watching me going smooth with my meat protein. That alone speaks clearly to me.
I am glad you made this video as I saw this video a day ago and it really anoyed me how he bends the "facts"
My mom has rheumatoid arthritis and hypothyroid and shes basically eaten a vegetarian diet closer to a vegan diet with very little animal proteins for the last 30 years. She suppliments and has followed naturopathy for as long as I can remember. Never smoked, no drugs no alcohol. No history of any severe medical in our family as all our grandparents and great gradparents lived into their 80's. My dad on the other hand smokes, drinks and wont touch a vegetable if his life depended on it. He has had a quintuple bypass surgery, has high blood pressure and had kidney stones.
The point im trying to make here is I think people need to stop this war between vegan this meat that. I hope that more real science on diet will come out in the future as I feel like whichever way you swing your side is based on cherry picked information to sway your narrative. Its dangerous to scare people into doing that can harm them because you feel passionately about something. We ARE omnivores and we most likely should eat healthy options from all groups and have a healthy balance. You can do what you like and I actually encourage it just try less judgement along the way....
Lol, an enlightened centrist has appeared. Yes, science is hard. But your estimation that both sides arrive at their conclusions through cherry picking is naive. As nutritional research continues, meta-analyses continue to show that eating less animal products produces better outcomes. This is despite the inclusion of industry funded gish gallop that favors animal products.
A lot of real science has existed for a long time. But one has to educate themselves and actually read many studies to separate it out from the compromised science.
It is easy to value anecdotes and assume that most people don't earnestly seek the truth but instead fight for their side. That way, one can pretend to stand above as an objective observer without having to learn anything themselves. In reality, they have already been swayed one way by the side with the stronger propaganda.
Getting protein from plants needs more caloric consumption. Plus RDA recommendation for protein is just to survive and not thrive.
Great video. Would be good if what I've learnt could respond to your robust and comprehensive debunking, but I guess he is on to his next people pleaser video by now; no regard for the harm he causes in his wake.
He has done responses in the past but just written ones on his Patreon.
This guy gust proved that a balanced diet of meat, vegetables and carbs is better than a vegan diet alone LOL.
So if I’m a vegetarian, what the fuck
Do I do, I just CANNOT build muslcd?
@@dosomestuff1949 Sorry, can't help you, since your question is not related to my comment.
@@dosomestuff1949 Just be a pescatarian. Eating intelligent animals is weird as fuck, but eating moving vegetables isn't a big deal. Chickens and fish are basically brain dead, eggs literally are just meat fruit, and they all happen to be incomparably healthier to eat than mammals are. Also, the carbon footprint of all three is also incomparably smaller than for pigs and cows.
Octopus might be super healthy, but eating them is still weird.
@@rampaginwalrus I cant eat chicken and fish. Am i just doomed to be skinny?
@@dosomestuff1949 no, just eat a lot of beans, nuts, seeds, whey protein, creatine, and greek yogurt. Even if you're lactose intolerant, you can still eat greek yogurt and whey protein.
There's also special "bulk up" powder you can buy at places like GNC, but it's pretty expensive.
Came to this video as a fan of What I've Learned expecting a decent rebuttal but this has been a bit of a dumpster fire of a response.
Protein Adequacy in Americans;
Weirdly enough, I'm not sure why WIL had to provide this statistic as claim is wrong but still points in support of his argument. As Mic says at 2:58
"intakes of protein (as grams/ day) are adequate across the population"
You know why? Because the American diet is highly based on a huge amount of animal products. Which actually proves WIL point on protein being completely adequate in the animal products consumed on a mass scale by most Americans, as these findings make a good point of evidence for that claim.
Black Beans Nutrition;
Firstly, you are accounting for two foods to reach those amino acids numbers compared to one animal product. Secondly, Black Beans do NOT have the same amount of protein and is lacking in linoleic acid beef has more linoleic acid than black bean per 100 grams. Black bean has more thiamin and folate, however, beef contains more niacin, pantothenic acid, Vitamin B6 and Vitamin B12. These vitamins are seen as mostly deficient in vegan diets. Just like the onion offering increased digestibility for Phtyic acid, meat eaten with vergatbles and grain largely reduces any cancer risk asocated with red meat. Remember, Meat eaters aren't just eating meat like exclusionary vegans who eat no animal products, ominvors had intended, befits from the continuity of both meat and plant based options.
DIAAS Validity
While it is true that the DIAAS suffers from some limitations it is a useful tool for protein analysis, especially compared with the PDCAAS. A study from 2022 "Protein Quality Changes of Vegan Day Menus with Different Plant Protein Source Compositions" finds the crucial amino acid lysine to be lacking in the diets analzyed by the case study. They ran the case study on the the EAT-Lancet diet which even found lower protein sources in planet based diets were even effected by which the proccess if refined or not. Most studies anylzing recomneded prtoein and emino acids scores for vegans dont include digestibility.
Muscle Mass in Animal vs Plant Proteins
There is a reason you're using a single community based cohort study based on middle age and elderly Chinese adults and not any of the overwhelming evidence to support lean muscle mass , and i think you know why. I dont believe after this research you didnt come across the "Animal Protein versus Plant Protein in Supporting Lean Mass and Muscle Strength: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials" study in 2021 that, even though found no absolute lean mass or muscle strength. It did find
"Quantitatively, the meta-analysis revealed a favoring effect of animal protein specifically for percent lean mass. There was a significant gain in both absolute and percent lean mass with animal protein intake among adults
Wow, why did this comment not get more likes lol
@@1roco1 I appreciate it
Considering that plant-based meat is industrial goyslop with mountains of ingredients like seed oils and additives, I think I’ll stick with real grass finished meat.
ok
Just saw the original video and something wasn't adding up. As you point out we're not seeing hospitals full of people suffering from protean deficiency. Sadly many more people have seen the original then this response.
He did the same thing he accused the other guy of.
No, he dismantled WIL's argument using sound arguments and scientific studies that prove plant proteins are consistently healthier than animal proteins.
@@HealingLifeKwikly You can find a scientific research to support almost any point of view.
@@Arjunarjunskiy He didn't just contrast WIL's view with his own research, he also looked at the same research WIL used and came to a different conclusion. In the past WIL has made posts responding to mic, so he might do it again too
@@Arjunarjunskiy Yes, very true, but as a university, my research focuses on how people get fooled about what is true or effective in various fields (by misleading studies, language, etc.). Sort through the fog, and it is overwhelmingly obvious diets dominated by whole plant foods are healthiest for humans and are healthiest for the planet by an ENORMOUS margin.
Literally it's stated everywhere that animal protein is better absorbed, better accepted etc.. it is superior. You only have to look it up, there's thousands and thousands of sites that site this fact.
"Literally it's stated everywhere that animal protein is better absorbed, better accepted etc.. it is superior. You only have to look it up, there's thousands and thousands of sites that site this fact." And speaking as a researcher who studies how people get fooled about healthy nutrition, those sites are misleading you/wrong. Research clearly shows that when you follow people for long periods of time, replacing animal protein for plant protein yields markedly better health outcomes--after controlling for other variables. This is well documented, whereas higher consumption of animal fat and protein ramps up virtually every known non-genetic disease. So how did researchers and pundits get it so wrong?
In a nutshell, they made many of the same mistakes WILs' video did. First, you can't just judge the quality or healthfulness of this or that protein based on the bioavailability of EAAs. Animal foods on average have more harmful health effects and fewer beneficial health effects than do whole plant foods. Compared to eating whole plant foods instead, meat in particular ramps up rates of many different diseases.
Second, judging the value of "eating plant proteins" cannot be done while just judging the global DIAAS score for an individual foods. One problem is that the way the DIAAS treats nitrogen means it underestimates the EAA value of plant foods and overestimates the EAA value of animal foods. Another problem is that people who eat plant based usually eats LOTS of different protein-containing foods, and the EAA strengths of one food counterbalance the EAA weakness of another plant food, rendering the already-strange DIAAS global score moot and useless/deeply misleading. I'm just eating lunch now and so far my vegan diet has included at least 15 different foods that contain protein. For every amino acid, there are multiple plant foods with DIAAS scores over 100, and for all but one amino acid there is at least one plant food with a DIAAS score over 110, so when you eat a variety of plant foods, it is quite easy to meet all your amino acid needs. If you just eat potato chips, candy, and beer, THEN you'd have a problem.
Third, research clearly shows that it is the AMOUNT of protein you eat--not whether it came from plants or animals--that determines its effects for building muscle.
Interestingly, those who don't eat meat have been found to have better endurance, FAR less toxic chemicals in their bodies, and to have arteries that dilate four times as well as those of meat eaters. One should focus on WHOLE plant foods to be truly healthy, but the case against eating lots of meat just keeps getting stronger and stronger.
Take care.
Literally ppl with less a neuron are everywhere
You only have to look it up there's thousands and thousands of ppl just as d3rAN..... g. 3d as you
What I've Learned is clearly biased towards eating meat, this channel is clearly biased towards not eating meat, so it's quite difficult to trust any information coming from either side.
But I do appreciate hearing both sides of the argument. My stance is that there are problems on both sides. Vegans have to take greater care in combining the right foods to avoid deficiency, which many do fail at because they are too lazy to cook varied meals or because they are picky eaters. My sister is vegan and had to take supplements for years before finding a diet that worked for her.
Non-vegans on the other hand have the opposite issue of often overconsuming too much meat, which as mentioned contains lots of harmful stuff. Humans have throughout most of history had a predominantly plant-based diet, meat didn't provide the bulk of our nutritional needs. Our bodies simply aren't adapted to a high meat diet, in the same way we aren't adapted to a only-bananas diet.
I'd love to know how you know what humans were eating thousands of years ago. especially before we invented farming
Getting enough protein from a vegan diet is just more difficult, it’s even more difficult to get enough protein on a low calorie diet , I eat tuna and eggs after being completely vegetarian for years , I gets eggs from a friends chickens and only eat skipjack tuna , but we can’t expect to get our nutrition science from you tube
2:39 hmmm 3 cups of rice and beans? Is that really a standard amount for a meal?
Having seen both videos and read a lot of literature about nutrition and dietary guidelines in several countries, I can honestly conclude that there IS a lack of proper nutrition in the US - Period.
I personally ate a lot of meat products about 2 years ago, multiple times a day. I have done my meat-eating part, and I can honestly conclude that we all need better nutrition sources in general - and that goes for both vegans and carnivores.
In the video he concludes that Soy and Pea Protein isolate is the best plant-based protein form, that you can consume on a Vegetarian/Vegan diet. (Is it wrong? - NO!)
But WIL has an agenda, he wants to info-bomb with positive meat-information, and that's okay - That is for his audience!
Tell me if I am wrong, but in the world of plant-based diet, there has always been a lack of nutrition coming from natural sources.
Like B12 vitamin, and Heme-Iron! (Non-heme iron coming from plants)
The amino acid profile in plant-based food is also problematic, but it is doable.
My conclusion is then:
YOU CAN HAVE A FUNCTIONAL PLANT BASED DIET!
But you need to supplement with proper vitamins and minerals - Period!
And you need to read up on amino acid profiles, and make sure you eat balanced.
Of course, meat is easier on the amino acid profile, B12 vitamins and Heme-iron. (You can't deny that)
But you don't have to eat meat to fully function as a human being.
Note: I am a flexitarian (I eat plants and dairy products everywhere I can, but if meat is being served, and I have no other options, I will eat meat)
I don't know, all you say is pretty accurate, it's just hard for me to hear someone vegan talking about meat, I'd like to hear it from someone impartial in this topic
"it's just hard for me to hear someone vegan talking about meat, I'd like to hear it from someone impartial in this topic" Either you eat meat or you don't: Either way, you're not impartial.
I was kinda concerned about this, but now I'm not. Thanks for addressing it Mic.
I have been working with athletes for the past 19 years and had vegans and meat eaters.
Meat eaters are always superior! Also the vegans that switched to meat got better results.
If vegan protein is so superior as you claim, how come there are so few athletes that are vegan? .... I think that answers it up!
Complete proteins plants don't have, they also don't have heme iron, then finally bioavailability. Put 3 ounces of wild caught Atlantic mackerel vs 3 ounces of any plant food then through bioavailability how much of each is actually absorbed. You're debating against human anatomy.
What I have learned is that there are a lot of misinformation out there. Crazy world that we lived in. Thank you Mic.
yeah and this video is a prime example.
I know there's always people willing to tell people what they want to hear so that they can make a quick buck, but......I've only just got to Mic's first point, where the guy is trying to claim the average american is protein deficient and you know this Fox News-level twisting of the truth. It's just so disheartening - firstly that so many people are willing to manipulate facts like this, but more importantly, that there are so many eager for the "alternative facts" :(
he bases his clips on research, I don't know how you think he's misleading, he's not making things up
Where is What I've Learned's video about how meager the US population's fiber intake?
Great video! And thanks for mentioning Ethiopian food...my favorite cuisine, hands-down.
Vegan cope, lol.
Yeah...those plant based countries need to rev up their protein consumption so they can rev up their cardiovascular and cancer percentages to be more like us. They are lagging behind.
Whether he's right or not, he's much more charismatic and informative than you.
You sound like your angry.
He's nice to listen to, while your tone just grates on my ears.
Others have said that it sounds like you're triggered and it does.
My brother in christ you got your priorities wrong, being scientifically accurate > being charismatic when we are talking about a scientific topic
@@paulssyt I know, but that doesn't change that he's tough to listen to/
There are better ways to spread your message.
Being heard > not being heard