Vintage railway film - Mainline diesel - LMS 10000 - 1948
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2020
- This vintage railway film follows the construction and commissioning of Britains first mainline diesel locomotive, the London, Midland & Scottish Railways no. 10000.
Wikipedia; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...
The “asbestos“ sprayer worker was not available for interview.
It was the wonder material of the day everyone was oblivious to the danger
He was coughing too much to be interviewed.
He was there, but he kept on spitting up blood on the microphone
I was told that when he died, it took 3 days to cremate him...
Oh, how thoroughly reprehensible that this and sister locomotive 10001 were not saved. Imagine 10000 at a diesel gala!
There's plans to build a replica I believe.
@@BennettBrookRailway I didn't know that. I wonder what loco might be used as a donor for some parts and body panels? A derelict "Peak", perhaps? I follow with interest the recreation of the Baby Deltic Class 23 using a Class 37 as donor. This is now well advanced as you would know.
I believe a Class 58 is being used as the donor loco, chassis only.
@@BennettBrookRailway Once again, thank you! No doubt they have sourced the power unit. Perhaps this is from a Class 37 as (I believe I'm correct in saying) the Peaks were Sulzer engined. Anyway, a huge task lies ahead! With the Baby Deltic project it was only the chassis and parts of the cabs which could be utilised from the donor. Most of the loco is "scratch built".
Could it have have been because of the asbestos?
Can you imagine now if the commentator said of one of our latest locos “ the inside of the engine compartment, electrics and cab are sprayed with cancer, toxic, nuclear and hazardous chemicals to provide the driver with nostalgia!!!!”
6:50 ".... sprayed with asbestos to reduce noise ....." Well, that's all right, then.
Ahhh the good old days, ignorance is bliss. lol
...especially the noise of short shallow breaths..
Well they had a good reason for it, after all...
I mean. What could possibly go wrong
@@TenShine1productions not much. As long as asbestos is not broken up and remains as a solid mass it’s very safe. It’s only dangerous when broken up and breathed in as fibers hence why the miners died from it. Which is why asbestos remains in many buildings today. It’s only becomes dangerous when they start to demolish them.
You note that the person responsible for the music isn't named. Very wise of them.
I agree - very good film but the music is awful and you cannot turn it off without missing the commentary!!!!
Another fine piece of history.
The goal to have a British diesel to compete on the export market succeeded quickly, but it took another 10 years for BR to decide how to modernise, where other railways in the Commonwealth and Europe started buying diesels within 4 years from when this film was made.
One detail that will certainly be different on the replica No.10000: sprayed asbestos!
Alexander Challis I can't help feeling with the benefit of hindsight that after having decided to continue with steam immediately after the war for obvious reasons we should have stuck with it until the late seventies as they did in Germany and gone straight to electric traction. I would be an interesting exercise to calculate how much money was wasted by scrapping essentially new steam locomotives that did not even recover their build costs and the plethora of unsuccessful diesel designs some of which saw less than five years revenue earning service, the baby Deltics and Co-Bos spring to mind and the more successful designs such as the Warships, Westerns and Deltics that were prematurely withdrawn as being not standard, whatever BR meant by that as with a little thought at the outset they could have had a truly standard set of diesel designs with many interchangeable components as with the standard steam loco designs. Whilst I agree with you about the branch lines many of which were earmarked for closure before the Beeching report I think the closure of many of the secondary routes was ill thought out and shortsighted specifically the GC mainline, the S&D, and the Waverley route part of which has been rebuilt. To be fair this money wasting relating to railways is still going on look at the money that was spent on upgrading the WCML not to mention the years of disruption to passengers especially at weekends only for it ultimately not to reduce journey times or significantly increase capacity so we are now building HS2, we are now running bi-modal trains ten years after the government rejected them for a number of very valid reasons but now they are a really good idea because they've run out of money to complete the electrification schemes that they are now needed for. Unfortunately there will be no proper joined up thinking for the railways all the time that politicians only look as far as the next election.
More importantly in Europe electric traction
@@188basstrom That's true, in the Netherlands where I live the traction change went straight to electric traction, in fact it was already decided in 1930 that no new steam locomotives should be ordered, it was only the war which led to more steam locomotives to be bought after the war, of which most second hand from the War Department and Swiss railways, and 2 types ordered new from Sweden, but all these were just a stopgap measure and lasted less than 10 years. From the end of the war the electrification started in 1924 was put into the highest gear and by 1949 most of the mainlines were electrified and large amounts of EMUs delivered or on order.
Diesels played a minor rol from 1952 onward, ranging from small shunters to type 1 locomotives being the most powerful and used on non-electrified branch lines but still on the mainline in 3 or 4 coupled consists in case there was no electric loco available or heavy trains had to depart from non electrified colliery and harbor lines.
So even my parents which were born just before the war started didn't remember steam locomotives, they were all gone by 1957.
My uncle lost his life to asbestos sprayed in wooden coaches used by his employer the LNER. He rose from Cleaner then Signalman to the rank of Controller based at Crewe
@@philnewstead5388 Agreed entirely. The crappy locos built were worse than the steam locos they replaced. A truly British stupidity
I remember travelling on the 10000 as young lad in the early 1950s from Market Harborough to St Pancras. I remember everyone was surprized when it was approaching the station.
Wow
You were on the loco? Wow! Or perhaps on the train hauled by 10000?.
Either way, good for you.
Anyone talking about asbestos please get facts right. There Is a point when asbestos is dangerous and when it’s not. Hence why many buildings still have asbestos. And are not being removed until they get demolished or renovated. It’s dangerous when broken up and becomes fibers; not inert as a sheet fixed on or behind a wall.
Very true.
Watching this; I often wonder how many of the guys in this picture were excited they were about to be nationalised as British Railways or sad they were no longer going to be it of a large company like LMS.
Hi, I remember them in London when I was young in 1961 I started on the footplate at edgeley shed in 1962 I was made a fireman I finished my time out at longsight as a driver Regard Phil.
Fascinating, the year of my birth and pre-nationalisation of the railways. Apart from the hindsight of dangerous asbestos, a super illustration of British engineering postwar. I suspect the director of the film may have been having a few whiskys since the music, though jolly, is better suited to a fairground.
It's really interesting to see the more technical people (look at time 4.24 for a man using a 'megger', a hand operated high voltage generator used to test insulation and other things), they are all wearing jackets (probably Tweed), collar and tie with a jumper and often spectacles.
Oh yes the perfect English , why not a York man !
When an Apprentice at Cromptons we were told our electric motors had shaft breakages so went on a noisy Deltic to observe, 20 miles north of King's Cross an awful noise & we came to a halt & were rescued by a steam loco. It turned out to be lack of lubricant in a gear box , still have somewhere in my place in Spain a gear blade , we had a laugh about a 50 year old Steam loco towing us !
Pity No.10000 never became part of the national collection. Then I suppose it was just another "soulless" diesel not worthy of preservation.
Great film. But the music! The commentary says "slowly and carefully......", while there's an appalling, frenetic racket in the background. Ah, happy days!
British documentaries in the 1940's and 50's all used that horrible "music", along with the snotty stentorian announcers, who's over simplified dialogue was extremely annoying. BBC and Pathe News were the worst.
100% agree
@@tombarclay7108 Having lived through that era don't agree. That's how it was done. Dam sight better than the rubbish that backs many TV ads these days.
@@Thursdaym2 I agree with you about today's commentaries. I dislike the constant mind numbing hip hop thump thump thump of today's ads, documentaries, news, etc.
@@tombarclay7108 Better than the ignorant unintelligable garbage which passes for the English Language on the BBC now, together with the obnoxious rubbish the children of today call music.
That's a useful twelve-car train it's hauling. Some of the coaches look very interesting indeed!
I went over one of the pair at Willesden-16th International Railway Congress Exhibition 26th May 1954. I do not know which, and the catalogue only gave a line drawing. I usually saw them in pairs, often train watching at Cheddington near Tring. I last saw (again, one of them) in unbecoming faded green on the side road of Watford shed between the up slow and the shed wall.
great video, i am too young to remember this loco as am 68. i hope the bachmann 00 gauge lives up to its name.but do remember electric loco 2003, which i think was made in the same year, i saw a number of times in 1961 at newhaven as i lived in sussex, back to them film, everyone in the cab like a load of kids, i want to be the driver !! great.
Thanks for posting this it is well worth watching. I remember seeing 10001 and `Britannia` in the same afternoon when gricing at Wembley Central in think the spring or summer of 1964. My friend Dave who I used to go gricing with suggested Wembley as making a change from our usual spots which were either Oakleigh Park station or Kings Cross. I am very glad that he did! The next time I saw 10001 it was looking forlorn behind Derby loco works in the autumn of 1966 - again I think that was when it was! I hope the project to build a new version of 10000 is successful. I am sure that it will not have any asbestos anywhere!
Agree with others about the music but great period content. The music did not really matter as it was usually drowned out by the shutter noise from the projector.
I love this!
To was the fireman in Crewe in1947: the two 10.000 and 10.001 were in Crewe 5B Sheds. When I saw that Diesels were taking over from steam, I left in 1954/5
My Father was at Crewe sheds fireman and driver for 49 years.Geoff Hillyard now 88 years old I liked steam best, I fired them to London and Glasgow ,with the Duchesses
Little and often?
I hope you didn't have to shovel coal for the entire journey on a Duchess. That would be more work in one day, than some firemen, on shunting or branch duties, had for a week.
I can remember 10000 and 10001 double heading out of StPancress at Harpenden over looking Southdown embankment, when I was a boy.
It's a shame that none of these very successful engines from my first company were not preserved.
Also that GEC killed such a successful company in my opinion.
I wonder if one could be built if an engine were available.ik
Have you a video of the similar LMS dieseil mechanical loco 10100 The Fell, it would also be anothe intresting LMS early 1951 engine was recreated like several steam engines were and are being rebuilt.
Thanks for an intresting look back at the UK great engineering past!
So sad for those workers who died from asbestosis
very interesting video !
Nice. Much that steam had been king, it was filthy, with soot everywhere... That was chiefly why steam was temporarily replaced by diesel electric, then for many lines fully electrified.
What a pity that the sound of the loco wasn't recorded. Can anyone lip read to see what Ivatt was saying to camera?
He said... "that was terrifying, there was no strering wheel. Has anyone seen my hat? Oh here it is on my head. Where's the bathroom?"
@@pgtmr2713 Whatever you do, don't give up the day job to try comedy scriptwriting.
That was the best
What? Was?
@@imusingadisabledoldpersons63 the part with king George 1/2
"softly purring diesel"
LMS 10000: RRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGRGRGGRGRGRRGGRGRRGRGGRGGR *belching black smoke*
Roller bearing axles, a bit ahead of the curve for that time frame.
Funny how that word is used so much in or by wrestler's where im from lol, ...not saying anything negative at all, it's just a interesting/funny observation of human literary behavior to me 🤔🤓. Its hell of alot Better than calling a person a " savage " as a compliment. I just heard it used negatively (as it should)as I was watching Andy Griffith.
@@imusingadisabledoldpersons63 What word or phrase are you referring to? What country or region are you from?
"a bit ahead of the curve" - perhaps for the UK. In New Zealand we first fitted roller bearings to a class of steam locomotive in 1932. By 1939 it was policy to put roller bearings on all axles of locos (steam included). It amazes me that Mallard, the fastest steam loco in the world, made its record breaking run using friction axle boxes.
Fascinating subject but not sure I can endure another minute of this relentless music
No hi-viz in sight and working in shirt and tie
great
Say isn’t this music nifty?
Yes, and darn difficult too. I’m a clarinet player and I can’t tongue that fast , they’d kick me out of the Documentary Music Orchestra for sure .
I hope a replica of 10000 is built.
Loved that era where Humans and Engines were smoking to Glory 🙏🤣
Does anyone know the name of the music playing when the engine was lowered into place?
The engineers don't wave from the trains anymore; not like they did back in 1954!
Why o why were 10000 and 46256 not preserved? So much history there. Very shortsighted.
7:25 10000 didn't have windscreen wipers when built. They were retro fitted.
What?
How could the driver and second man see where they were going?
Did management expect them to put their heads out the window, as if it was a 19th century steam locomotive?
I think there would have been more of them if the LMS hadn't been nationalised. I think the LMS would have standardised on English Electric locomotives as both Preston & Newton-le-Willows were in LMS territory. I think the LMS would have had the Deltic (DP1) for the Anglo-Scottish expresses over the northern fells.
1:57 "Incidentally this seventeen ton engine is the largest V-Type to be built in Britain", well for its time, it was, but now compared to todays diesels, this "17 ton V-type" is really puny. Diesel Electrics have come a long way since their first developments.
He means the diesel engine, the prime mover, weighs 17 tons.
The complete loco weighed about 130 tons, not at all puny.
Of course the power output increased, from 1600hp in this loco to 2,000hp in the class 40, then 2,700 in the class 50.
@@thomasburke2683 you do realize I know he was talking about the bloody prime mover.
Muzak played over the Tannoy at work drives me to distraction at times. I wonder how they felt at Rugby and Derby with a full orchestra apparently just out of sight and playing that ridiculous background 'music' that used to accompany BBC broadcasts (of model railway shows).
I can't get my head round who picked the background music, and why? So of it's time!
8:12 This Famous LMS Diesel Locomotive No. 1000 Was Built By The English Electric And The London Midland And Scottish Railway In 1947 Before British Railways Was Founded On The 1st January 1948. Happy Christmas Mate. PS This LMS Diesel No.1000 Is A Bit Like BoCo The Diesel Engine From Thomas The Tank Engine And Friends The Original Series. X
I think we should have gone all electric from the period ending WW1. The grouping stopped that as the NER was disbanded and so was the LB&SCR and Midland Railways who had electrification plans. Politicians at "work" I am afraid:-((
I waited and waited to hear the narrator say “Schedule” the British way , hopes dashed until he said “Locomotive” with emphasis on the first syllable , then I came back to life .
The voice reminded me very much of Kenneth Kendall.
Sounds like same narrator on LMS film men of the footplate
It's Frank Phillips, narrator of "Little and Often".
You know, when I got out of the fan spree, I thought nothing more than my own life. How's that for a railfan?
Isnt he the same narrator as ‘I’m Alright Jack’? 😂
It's Frank Phillips, narrator of "Little and Often".
THERE IS.
9:07 This LMS Princess Coronation 4.6.2 Pacific Steam Locomotive Sir William A Stanier F R S Is A Bit Like Gordon The Big Engine From Thomas The Tank Engine And Friends The Original Series In 1984. Thanks Mate. X
Ah yes, but Gordon is a LNER Gresley class A1 Pacific with a flat running plate and two cylinders instead of three. LMS Stanier class 8P Coronations had four cylinders and an overall bigger mass.
The film commentary does not sound totally convinced about the 'new technology' that 'has to be given a chance to prove itself'. Maybe that's why they thought it necessary to slip in a steam loco and a film about diesel locos. The bosses of GEC and LMS come across as less than convinced as well. I feel awful for whoever got to spray the asbestos. Maybe he had full PPE but I doubt it. It's a horrible, horrible death folks - I've seen it happen.
Compare break down of diesels vs Steam , the sad death of Paxmans diesels in Colchester. I bet Reece Moggs doesn't have a lathe !
Why did diesel locomotives take so long to be adopted in the UK. Was it due to coal being more readily available?
As I understand it, yes. And oil was expensive at the time. Politically, the Labour governments of the day had to keep the right side of the powerful trade unions representing hundreds of thousands of coalminers and railwaymen.
And I believe that things weren't helped by a lot of new-fangled diesel technology scepticism among the British Transport Commission top brass. Over decades steam loco designers had developed some very good power/weight ratio classes, and earliest British diesels struggled to match let alone exceed best steam performance. So at that time, the need to run these two pioneer locos as a pair on express trains was understandably seen as pointless without making sufficient cost savings. Diesels overseas could be built with more installed power, but the bulkier equipment couldn't fit within British max loco body size.
@@ChangesOneTim Thank you for answering my question.
it's also worth remembering that the Uk suffered from continuous balance of payments crises after the war and importing oil was one thing that could be avoided. there was a post war scheme to oil fire steam locomotives but that was cancelled due to cost.
In the early post-war period, say up to about 1952-53, the over riding consideration was to avoid importing oil, and indeed to encourage export of steam locomotives as well as any other products. The balance of payments was critical.
Why steam manufacture continued another seven years is beyond me.
@@thomasburke2683
Good points - it was bonkers to continue building new steam locos for so long after the 1954 Modernisation Plan. This was as much to do with ingrained attitudes among BR chief engineers, all of whom had not only developed very efficient GWR/ LMS/ LNER/ SR steam designs but also had developed and were well into manufacturing the so-called 'BR Standard' designs announced in 1951! Combined with the Labour government's political motivation to continue with abundant British coal reserves and avoid importing too much foreign oil, it is easy in hindsight to understand why Britain's love affair with steam lasted so long despite being the cradle of the public railway.
It also explains why successive governments of the 1950s and 1960s got increasingly fed up with so many about-turns in BR policy which rapidly escalated costs: The unfortunate legacy of this chaos set the mantra among politicians and the public that 'the railways are slow/dirty/ inefficient' which lasted for the rest of BR's existence. Despite dramatic improvements in BR's later years, that mantra was an handy excuse for the Major government to break up BR into over a hundred pieces in 1994 then to privatise most of it.
Two diesels 10000+10001 to equal one Duchess 46256 🤔
6:45 into the video:
Hmmmm. I wonder what happened to this locomotive.
6.53: "the insides were sprayed with asbestos"
Ahh.
Wish we could hear the two even three gas-turbine electric in a film showing them at speed. Why so little rail fan interest in them beats me yet the amount dished out on no 10000 et al goes on and on.
well these were not the gas turbines, but i agree with your comments my friend.
Sprayed with Asbestos, Blue asbestos? "No white", "that's OK then"
Chiron s 😀
ADA.
What era was this? Everyone is wearing a titfer!!!!
I hate to say it but, nothing like reinventing the wheel.
No reinventing going on, simply adapting a concept used elsewhere to fit under our tiny bridges & through tight tunnels. Literally couldn't just buy units used by overseas operators, they wouldn't physically fit our rail network. So yeah, nothing like reinventing the wheel at all, simply building one of a suitable width & diameter, with the same development work that's put into any other new type...
Only noteworthy because it was the first on our network.
Machinegun the orchestra - PLEASE!!
Great cheerful music, indicative of the hopes of the time.
"The Steam Locomotive has in #10000 a new Challenger". No, Challenger is also a steam locomotive!
"challenger" as in something challenging it, not something named Challenger
This was in days when Britain had railway network to be proud of before those nasty evil Tories and Richard Beeching trashed British Railways in favour of the motorways and the oil barons.
...and if you check the history books, Labour governments continued the work by not scrapping a policy of cut and decline, despite election campaign promises to do so.