Very frustrated that the district attorney blocked the NTSB from accessing the vehicle. NTSB should have authority over local jurisdictions on motor vehicle accidents just like aviation and rail incidents.
Unless the plane or rail accidents are thought to be caused by a criminal act, than the FBI is brought in. Also the NTSB, FBI or any other federal agency doesn’t have the authority to take over a motor vehicle accident in the state of New York. And any statements or other evidence the limousine company provides to the NTSB is not privileged, they can then be used against them by the county DA or the state of NY for criminal prosecution.
My sales and use tax license gets pulled if I fail to file QUARTERLY, but NYSDOT and NYSDMV allow a fleet of death busses to operate without oversight. This is why people don't vote and are broadly skeptical of government. As an aside, people are not going to stop smoking marijuana. It is safer, more accessible, and cheaper than many pharmaceuticals used for mental health OR pain. The board asserted that THC and metabolites don't indicate blood levels or impairment, but regulatory bodies disqualify workers based on potential off-work marijuana use anyway. So long as this is the case, people will continue to falsify medical information to preserve their ability to work. Whether this is right or wrong is not the point; if regulatory bodies desire accurate medical reporting, they are going to have to reconcile their policies with medical reality. @NTSBgov Thank you for the work that you do and for making it available to the public.
I would think criminal investigations always supersede safety investigations. As much as we hate it, turning over those records would hurt their defense in a criminal prosecution.
@@jaysmith1408 Unfortunately, probably not. From what I understand, at least some of the key mechanical factors evidence and data have been compromised or destroyed, at least from a scientific standpoint. Science isn't something where you can go back, put something back together "the way you thought it was", and call it scientific data. If the data have not been collected properly, if they have been materially altered, if there is insufficient information about methodology, then those data are unusable. If the possibility of contamination exists, the data are contaminated. Incomplete data is incomplete data. Inconclusive findings are inconclusive findings. That's the way science works. Fortunately, there is more than sufficient data to show the human factors involved with this crash, and honestly, the more I listen and read, the more I believe that this is primarily a human factors crash. Mechanical factors clearly played a part, but they seem to have been secondary to the human factors involved.
Those vehicles should not be allowed at all. Several passengers died in one in California which caught on fire. These things are not made by car companies, they are made by companies that cut a vehicle in two and add a “stretch” section. They end up with a vehicle which is underpowered, with inadequate brakes, and with inadequate means of egress. Why should such things be allowed?
The choice is always do you want vengeance on a couple of people or do you want justice for those who died by understanding what happened and figuring out how to stop it from happening again? There are so many corporations out there functioning just like this one. The fact that cops have primary jurisdiction and can prevent the NTSB from accessing certain information and people really shows what we’ve decided is important as a society-we care more about punishing individuals than preventing future tragedies.
Looks like the owner of that limo company is going to be spending considerable time in jail for manslaughter. They had better be serving the rest of their life in jail.
I hope you're right, it would be nice to see one of these scumbags face justice for placing profits before the health and safety of others for a change.
Very frustrated that the district attorney blocked the NTSB from accessing the vehicle. NTSB should have authority over local jurisdictions on motor vehicle accidents just like aviation and rail incidents.
Unless the plane or rail accidents are thought to be caused by a criminal act, than the FBI is brought in. Also the NTSB, FBI or any other federal agency doesn’t have the authority to take over a motor vehicle accident in the state of New York. And any statements or other evidence the limousine company provides to the NTSB is not privileged, they can then be used against them by the county DA or the state of NY for criminal prosecution.
John Franklin agreed. Sorry NTSB, criminal investigations always trump your safety investigations. I’m not diminishing their work or its importance.
Board Meeting
00:00:00 - Opening comments
Staff presentations
00:08:50 - Introduction of investigators, participants etc.
00:10:52 - Crash/Investigation overview (Dennis J. Collins)
00:16:35 - Highway Factors (Robert Squire)
00:22:11 - Vehicle Factors (Brian Bragonier)
00:29:06 - Break Performance Study (Shane K. Lack)
00:36:03 - Human Performance Factors (Dennis J. Collins)
00:43:35 - Motor Carrier Factors (Michael LaPonte)
Board Member Questions
00:57:34 - 1st round
01:25:38 - Break 1
01:40:00 - End of break, 2nd round
02:08:33 - 3rd round
02:35:39 - 4th round
02:56:56 - 5th round
03:00:51 - Break 2
Findings/Probable Cause/Recommendations
03:15:07 - End of break, findings as proposed
03:23:21 - Amendments to findings (03:28:31, findings adopted as amended)
03:28:47 - Probable Cause as proposed (03:36:26, probable cause adopted)
03:36:32 - (new) Recommendations as proposed
03:40:36 - Amendments to (new) recommendations (03:50:32, recommendations adopted as amended initially)
03:50:57 - Previous adopted recommendations (NTSB-2019A)
03:58:38 - Reconsidering recommendations per "new info" (04:08:50, recommendations adopted as revised)
04:11:58 - Changes to final report (04:22:38, revised)
04:23:51 - Report adopted as revised
04:24:57 - Closing statements
legend
Thank you!
1:39:56 Break 1 Ends
3:14:56 Break 2 Ends
My sales and use tax license gets pulled if I fail to file QUARTERLY, but NYSDOT and NYSDMV allow a fleet of death busses to operate without oversight. This is why people don't vote and are broadly skeptical of government.
As an aside, people are not going to stop smoking marijuana. It is safer, more accessible, and cheaper than many pharmaceuticals used for mental health OR pain. The board asserted that THC and metabolites don't indicate blood levels or impairment, but regulatory bodies disqualify workers based on potential off-work marijuana use anyway. So long as this is the case, people will continue to falsify medical information to preserve their ability to work. Whether this is right or wrong is not the point; if regulatory bodies desire accurate medical reporting, they are going to have to reconcile their policies with medical reality.
@NTSBgov Thank you for the work that you do and for making it available to the public.
I think legislation needs to be introduced that says NOBODY impedes an NTSB investigation. What up wit dat anyway?
I would think criminal investigations always supersede safety investigations. As much as we hate it, turning over those records would hurt their defense in a criminal prosecution.
David Shelton yeah, because their defense is going soooo well already. At least after the criminal charges fly, then NTSB can revisit.
@@jaysmith1408 Unfortunately, probably not. From what I understand, at least some of the key mechanical factors evidence and data have been compromised or destroyed, at least from a scientific standpoint. Science isn't something where you can go back, put something back together "the way you thought it was", and call it scientific data. If the data have not been collected properly, if they have been materially altered, if there is insufficient information about methodology, then those data are unusable. If the possibility of contamination exists, the data are contaminated. Incomplete data is incomplete data. Inconclusive findings are inconclusive findings. That's the way science works.
Fortunately, there is more than sufficient data to show the human factors involved with this crash, and honestly, the more I listen and read, the more I believe that this is primarily a human factors crash. Mechanical factors clearly played a part, but they seem to have been secondary to the human factors involved.
Sadly, in 2022, I trust the NTSB more than any other government agency 😞🙄
Those vehicles should not be allowed at all. Several passengers died in one in California which caught on fire. These things are not made by car companies, they are made by companies that cut a vehicle in two and add a “stretch” section. They end up with a vehicle which is underpowered, with inadequate brakes, and with inadequate means of egress. Why should such things be allowed?
The choice is always do you want vengeance on a couple of people or do you want justice for those who died by understanding what happened and figuring out how to stop it from happening again? There are so many corporations out there functioning just like this one. The fact that cops have primary jurisdiction and can prevent the NTSB from accessing certain information and people really shows what we’ve decided is important as a society-we care more about punishing individuals than preventing future tragedies.
Why would anyone want to rent that POS? I mean it was crap before the crash.
Normalization of Deviance
Looks like the owner of that limo company is going to be spending considerable time in jail for manslaughter. They had better be serving the rest of their life in jail.
I hope you're right, it would be nice to see one of these scumbags face justice for placing profits before the health and safety of others for a change.