Super Saiyan 4 VS Super Vegito Isn't Close
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Why Dragon Ball GT Super Saiyan 4 Goku VS Dragon Ball Z Super Vegito Isn't Close! When it comes to powerhouses in the Dragon Ball world, one definitely cannot overlook SSJ4 Goku from Dragon Ball GT, and when it comes to Dragon Ball Z, you cannot really look past Super Saiyan Vegito who is arguably the most powerful fusion in the series. But to decipher which of these overpowered Saiyans would defeat the other if they had to roll up, we decided to analyze their feats, statements, lore, and other stuff.
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#DragonBall #DragonBallZ #DragonBallSuper
The hate for GT is insane to the point of a man making a video saying that a DBZ transformation is stronger than the sequel at the time. Ill be the first to admit the flaws in GT but damn it man, when I say most ppl bandwagon hate GT because of Super im proven right every passing day.
I honestly see so much hate for both GT and Super that I just ignore everything about it. Both are creations with great concepts but really flawed execution.
@@mandalorianhunter1 I agree 100 percent. I like tthe potential of both and really wish that they were handeled better.
@@JacobCada agreed even original DB and DBZ aren't perfect. People gloss over that.
Hell I love the Buu Saga, but now it's considered the weakest saga.
@@mandalorianhunter1 Eh, there's a lot of concepts in Super I wouldn't call great.
@@CornaOnTheCob same here, but some could have worked better like the Goku Black arc and Universal tournament. Universe 6 can be hit or miss.
We will see how the Moro and Granola arc gets adapted.
It really wouldn't make any sense that Vegito would be stronger than him anyway, since Goku in GT is far superior to bother Vegeta and Goku from the Buu Saga and what's with the hate of GT too
Cause it's not "canon"
@@Grimgammer I guess... Maybe I'll never understand it but I find GT to be a decent show
@@de606returns6 so do I the only arc in it that I don't like would be the super 17 arc
@@Grimgammer People really riding that so hard. Back when GT was the only thing that existed did people ever say that?
I only really remember that after BOG came out they started saying that.
Like back then I remembered GT was seen as Canon and AF after that even if most people couldn't realize it wasn't actually it's at least honorable for its mention.
All the fan animations and sprites and the games that were modded to make stories.
@@Grimgammer Canon is an overrated term
Absolute truth.
I am rightfully triggered. Lol. This topic bugs me, I thought it was Hakai'd 10 Years Ago!
@@SaiyanScholar it's really stupid tbh
@@SaiyanScholar It was revived as a passionless cashgrab training for 4 month to getting stronga than any previous antagonist
absolutly false
Personally I think gt was amazing, almost better then z, its really dumb to hate gt. Like if u agree.
GT haters back at it again. A more logical discussion from his part would be discussing if a Vegito from the Buu Saga would be stronger than a theoretical Goku that achieved SS4 during the Buu Saga. These downplayers are actually fucking stupid. They ignore scaling to suit a narrative they already built
how is it lowballing? some of us just saw the gt files which states vegito is around the level of ssj4
@@kuru-yami9416 If you watched the video, you would see that the files refer to the fusion multiplier being comparable to SS4's multiplier, not that Vegito is the same as SS4 Goku. You only come to that conclusion by ignoring the context of the material, which is talking about multipliers.
And plus this is The fusion from z not GT
@@kuru-yami9416 The guide says "perhaps", meaning it's not 100% factual. And yet you still use that source. 💀
@@kuru-yami9416 watch all of the video and look at the information in it.
I am kinda glad to hear SSJ4 is so strong. I never got deep into GT or Super. But I prefer SSJ4 over Blue in terms of design.
Took it back to those saiyan roots, was a nice callback to the great ape. Design wise I think it's better than the hair dye power up set
Definitely. Blue looks boring as hell
@@sugma69420 Agreed
Geekdom and another guy made a video talking about this some time ago. I’m glad it was made, as I am with this video. Saiyan Scholar has that distinct humour unique to only him.
Yes I agree with daddy scholar but I wish he would scale ssj3 Vegito.. give my boy a chance
Chuck the cyber cuck and seth the programmer made a video of ss4 vs ssg/ssb not from the anime but from the movie.
I'm glad this fan spits out the facts
Bruh, the SSJ4 feats were incredible during the GT saga, I mean not all the time, but still powerful, kinda reminded me of super Broly. But, Any character from Z or any form from Z, is severely left behind by GT, or even the End of Z Goku. Love this
Crazy how people actually believe ssj4 is weaker
he would be weaker than super saiyan blue vegito
But stronger than super saiyan vegito
The fact that this video had to be made AT ALL really shows how much die-hard fans will twist information for their own gain. No one complained when Gohan was stronger than Freeza, and no one complained when SSG Goku was considered stronger than Vegito. GROW UP. Even without guides and powered scaling, it's so obvious that SSJ4 Goku is stronger than Vegito that it's blinding. That's just the way power creep works in anime.
I agree ssj4 goku would win but Vegito ssj3 going all out would put up a good fight.. it’s not as one sided as you think
@@plebeian292 yeah, it wouldn't a complete embarrassment or anything like that. If they both fought their hardest to the death or something, Goku would come out on top easily, but not without a scratch.
@@damneddisciple4833 Both of you clearly didn't watch the video if you think this is anything but a one-sided stomp.
@@Unethical2023 oh no, it totally would. I'm just saying that neither of them would WANT it to be. They'd do the "power up slowly" Dragon Ball thing until Goku come out on top
@@plebeian292 counting SSJ3 Vegetto would mean throwing in DB Heroes' lore in to the mix, which in the earlier to middle sections of the arcade game's story had SSJ4 as a transformation forbidden by Chronoa to the Xeno characters, since it was so absurdly strong just tapping into it would be dangerous to the universe.
No doubt GT goku fighting a whole force of SIGMA's, already puts him above anything Vegito has done. To defeat that many people who are Sigmas is insane. RIP Sigma grindset
lol
no GT hater is safe from the sayan scholar.
You shouldn't really have to debate something like this though, right? Wouldn't all of Goku's progress in GT feel redundant if he was still weaker than Vegito? It should be a question of character development or story progression, not scans and statements.
Great video tho
Bruh vegito is strong. so it's no problem if Goku is still inferior. Vegito in base alone kicks buuhan fusion rather easily. Something a ss3 really struggle with. While a base vegito may struggle against ss4, definitely not ss2 Vegito.
@@work90 did you even watch the video?
@@thornthornz yes I watched the video. I'm talking about the facts set in Z. I don't have to watch a video to think you know?
Vegito is supposed to be the multiplier of both saiyan, it's so strong that it only makes sense to have a time limit. So ssj4 can be inferior and that would show how strong ssj4 gogeta trully is in that 10 minutes he is in, otherwise it doesn't feel special
@@work90 what a dweeb 😂
The crazy part about this guide is that if you use it strictly for multipliers and not as a Vegetto vs SSJ4 Goku comparison but just Potara vs SSJ4, this would make SSJ4 relative to fusion while SSJB has been shown to be weaker then it. Yet I bet these people would claim SSJB > SSJ4 and use this as evidence.
Thats what the guide meant.
Hell the fact that ssg held its own against beerus but ssbx20 kk cant is outrageous.
@@sorakazama7031 beerus was playing with him lmao so it's less than 10%of beerus power so ssb wouldn't do anything other than vegito ssb but it would ultimately be nothing as well
Fusion in the Majin Buu Arc. SSJ God was indirectly stated and shown to be above Vegito, but now Vegito is above SSJ Blue. But we already know that SSJ4 Goku in the Baby Arc has more power than SSJ Blue Goku in the Goku Black/Future Trunks Arc of the DBS Manga.
Vegito can go ssj3 if needed
Vegitto needed Super Saiyan to break Boo's dimensional collaps attack. Super Boo with Gohan absorbed is like 3 times Boo considering Boo and Gotenks were about even and Gohan couldn't do shit against Bootenks.
In GT Goten was confident he could beat Baby who he stated to be stronger than anyone he faced. For the sake of argument, let's say that's Super Boo only and Goten still needed Super Saiyan. When Baby took over Goten's body he bacame about 2 times as strong as Super Boo at minimum and he was still not able to push Gohan to Super Saiyan. They were about even. Gohan had to turn Super Saiyan when Baby threatened to destroy the planet. Now you have GT Gohan in base who is stronger than Goten who is about as strong as Super Boo and he transforms into a Super Saiyan. And then teams up with Goten against Goku. Goku schools in Base 51 Super Boos.
How many Super Boo's can Vegito beat as a Super Saiyan in the Boo Saga?
Like does that seem like Vegito can beat a Super Saiyan 4? Baby Vegeta in just Super Saiyan was giving SSJ3 GT Goku a fight. And said Baby transformed twice absorbing ki far greater than 51 Super Boo's on top of his at least 51 times 400 Super Boo power. And Super Saiyan 4 Goku took his strongest attack without a scratch.
True, even despite you've proven it to them, they'll still refuse it and defend their own to the death. Probably they might hurt their ego.
Knocking it out of the park every time and keeping it respectful. Gotta appreciate real talent ! Kudos man
Yea I think it's easy to just forget that there's a time difference of like 15years between Buu Saga and start of GT.
In 15years base Goku would have jumped miles beyond Super Vegito in Z.
That said, if they were on the same playing field. Obviously Vegito would be stronger, not only because there's 2 beings, but also that at that point Vegito would also have access to SSJ4 making it entirely destroy SSJ4.
So explain why trunks isnt god tier in future trunks saga if time = extreme power.
Get rekt.
@@ShinzoX90 Because Trunks.
Get wrecked.
Goku and Vegeta actually train.
I’m proud that at least one DB RUclipsr has a brain
He doesn't
@@Geozone117 He does and he also has balls unlike 90% of db youtubers who are afraid of yt comment section.
@@Geozone117 more than yours at least
I believe fusion is like x100 of the fuse users into one. In DB Legends, 2nd anniversary story mode, Super Full Power Saiyan 4 Goku (GT) was able to move at least fast as Fused Zamasu. Assuming if the Full Power SS4 is x10 of SS4, then SS4 Goku (GT) is definitely much stronger than SS Vegito (Buu saga).
Legends might just be stronger but like...
@@zelz3011 gt goku at base in gt erased an infinite dimension that the kai had no control over due to the gods there. Gt goku also shook the entirety of hell at base just joking around. There is no way, truth be told he shouldnt even need ss4 on fused zamasu so id say legends made him much weaker. Especially much weaker than end gt goku which was 100 years after all that.
@@sorakazama7031 Yeah 100 years Goku is busted maybe by this point UI is above it and that but I assume 100 Years Goku would probably body everything in super power wise before The TOP in Base form.
They sitll have SS-2-3-4 and possibly 5!
@@zelz3011 ui isn't even above gt goku before that. 100 year goku became undying and showed the ability to phase in and out of reality when people he knew seen him. They couldn't sense him, he also showed in the goku Jr movie that he could revive on his own. So he has full control over the dragonballs since the one goku Jr found obviously couldn't do it. Pretty sure he's at the point where he could think people away. He'll when he was made immortal by shenron he looked as if he was as strong as ss4 gpgeta at base. None of omega blast hurt him, he was talking to him as he was getting blasted. That was before the timeskip.
What makes you believe for a second Vegito can’t go ssj2 or ssj3?
i love ssj4 the primal power... SSJb is such a joke same with UI...
Buddy just found a single point from a guide that suited his headcanon and just ran with it.
Bro people still say naruto solos dbz you’ll never escape this battle
Fun fact : GT Goku is way older than Super Goku
If DBS ever goes past EOZ (which it looks like it might) GT fans are gonna mald.
@@sun332s7 one problem is that Akira Toriyama has said that it won't surpass EOZ so yeah and i believe Toyotarou has said the same
And yet look at ppl now trying to make it seem that ssg goku would beat ss4 goku lmao
To me, it always was "if Goku and Vegeta fuse into vegetto right now they become stronger than a ssj4 goku or vegeta right now"
i just started the video and first 10 seconds in and dude making the claim that vegito is equal to super saiyan 4 goku is way off...
ultra vegito would give ssj 4 a challenge though.
Half way thru the vid and I can see now that dbs goku doesn’t stand a single inch of a chance against gt goku, I always knew gt goku was stronger but I didn’t he was this much stronger
Buddy...he's not stronger.GT isn't even universal,Super starts being universal by the Battle of Gods arc.
@@blackholephoenix4207 you’re just helping my point lol, gt is way passed battle of gods in terms of power
@@DjTeeray and where'd you get that idea? im genuinely curious.
The only point I disagree is the 200x multiplier from end of Z to GT...
That's not how it works, if goku turns 400x stronger from boo saga to EoZ it means he was close to 2x a year (about 1.82x to be axact) because he gets stronger on top of his current power, and It grows exponentially.
So if goku was evolving the same rate as before, in 5 years he would be about 20 times stronger... Yes, just 20 (and It makes sense because this is 5 years, and 20 X 20 is 400 wich is the 10 years multiplier) it works like this because it exponetial.
But still ssj4 goku from gt is clearly stronger than boo saga vegetto, the gyide is just talking about The multiplier and a hypothetical ssj4 in the boo saga.
imo if it leads to the same conclusion (ssj4 > super vegitto) it's still possible so both ways should get a pass
we don't know how creative with training Goku was, if he was near death and used senzu or trained on king kai's planet under heavy pressure
even in the gravity room with vegeta is a lot better than just training with anyone
Everyone including me often forget the huge time jumo between thr end of DBZ and start of GT and that goku been training ubb whole time, so question is how much stronger has goku base become in that time jumo from end of Z to start of GT? W example in my mind of fusion strength be kefla when kale and kalifla fused during the TOP and fought goku neither of them were beyond super Saiyan 2 powers alone, both were about were goku and vegeta were when they fused against buu as far as forms go and they at max were able to beat up super Saiyan blue goku and force him to ultra instinct sign, and even then they hung in there against a divine form of the angels, so telling me a maxed of vegito cant hang with ssj4? Hard time believing it , unless u telling me SSJ4 is on par with the power of super Saiyan blue or ultra instinct sign? I highly doubt that, then that saying omega shenron is as powerful as jerin and equal to many of the weaker destroyer gods during the TOP. I dont believe that as he was taken out by a spirit bomb thrown by kid goku, and jerin pushed back and overpowered and 20 times kio ken super Saiyan blue goku spirit bomb and was nowhere near max power doing it.
It is easy if Goku in base could beat rildo, then Goku in base could beat kid Buu, then in SSJ Goku would be 50x times stronger than Kid Buu, and in SSJ2 would be x100 times stronger than Kid Buu, and in SSJ3 is 400x times stronger than kid Buu, and in SSJ4 4000x times. surpassing SSJ Vegito for sure.
They should make another kakarot style dbz but with gt story and add what if scenarios as dlc
I think vegito in z is as strong as gt ssj4 only if you use pre multiplier retcon for portara
Being fighter A times fighter B
10:16 If anything, this proves just how powerful SSJ4 actually is.
This Hass to stop I made a lot of videos of it to super Saiyan four goku would even stomp vegito even if vegito went ssj3 I just suggest some of you guys watch geekdom101 and broku 75 They go in a lot of detail into this as well
If vegito appeared instead of gogeta in the shadow dragon saga than yes he would be stronger than gt ssj4 goku but since this is super vegito from buu saga, then no he isnt stronger than gt ssj4 goku. Potara is perhaps stronger than ssj4 form, not stronger than ssj4 Goku.
I am so glad you debunk his video even when I was in 3rd grade I always knew SS4 Goku can beat Vegito.
This comparation makes no sense as Vegito is a fusion between Goku and Vegeta. For starters, why would we even compare Buu saga Vegito with GT Goku ss4 which is after the Buu saga? It's like you compare Vegito with ssb Goku which again makes no sense since that's in DBS and Goku already has god ki. Now that part... why would you compare Vegito with Goku instead of Vegito with GT Vegito? I know you ain't got one but since we're talking theory, just invent one, based on ss4 GT Gogeta, so the comparation actually makes sense because technically DBZ Vegito post Buu saga would be much stronger than ssj4 GT Goku. But again... you're making a comparation which makes no sense, it's like saying DBS ssb Goku is stronger than Buu saga ss3 Goku ... it's omega obvious. Absolutely no response was necessary imo.
Exactly!
I’m with you on this one.
That's like comparing king piccolo or kid Goku to ssj blue or ultimate Gohan.
Dude, did u not see what the video is about? @Xirlio ....... its a DBZ SSJ Vegetto vs SSJ4 Goku from gt >.> he simply said that gt is faaaaaaaar above anything in Z >.> Watch the video first please b4 making stupid statements? He said it at the start of the video... its because that guy was comparing Z SSJ Vegetto to GT's SSJ4 Goku ...... Jeez...... the db community.... patience is a virtue u know, watch things first , then say things... XD
Agree. If it was gt goku and gt vegeta that fused in baby saga, then this gt vegito absolutely stronger than ssj4 goku baby saga.
Honestly this person not to be disrespectful but he likes to downplay on GT characters Like Vegito being stronger than ssj4 goku or ssj god goku Be more superior than ssj4 gogeta
Kid GT Goku in base was already stronger than the Buu saga cast.
Dragon Ball Super is a casual continuaty.
Idk why these videos are made who cares who’s stronger both of these forms are epic why can’t we jus enjoy the forms and no turn everything into a video or a debate
DBGT Goku is GOAT: And SS4 Power Boosts through the Series Proves SS4 would Surpass Vegito.
Didn't Goku used the dragon fist as a SSJ3 in one of the movies with Tapion? I guess not cannon, but still before GT so he knew it.
Z vegito is only comparable to pan from GT XD don't worry she shall kick his ass easily
Why did they even make that Goku ssj4 model when they didn't wanna make it a playable character? 😭
It looks SOOO fricking good!
SS4 Goku stomps the entirety of Z. It's only when people start mentioning DBS that Base Goku post BOG arc solos all of GT.
GT GOKU was an absolute beast as ssj4. I didnt like the "kid goku" angle, but i liked GT
Yes I do agree that it pretty much confirms hypothetical Buu Saga SS4 Goku or SS4 Vegeta Would Rival SS1 Vegito.
Which Pretty Much confirms that Super Saiyan 4 has a massive multiplier considering that Buu Saga base Vegito was already Dozens of times more powerful than combined the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta.. a fusion in Base would always surpass the combined Peak power of the two Fusees. We also have to remember that according to Dragon Ball GT Journal 43, Super Saiyan full power/Grade 4 is stated to be just as powerful as Super Saiyan grade 3 without the drawbacks.. is therefore Super Saiyan grade 4 is actually a 500 times multiplier.
2: I'm well aware of Base Goku being strong in GT but we don't really know how powerful he was in the beginning of Gt.. By Time Rildo Showed up Goku was already Much more Powerful then he was at the beginning of Dragon Ball GT.
Even we do not factor ignore buhan and buutenks, because kid buu much Weaker... does not change the fact that Kid buu was clearly much more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, the fact that he was able to push back the Spirit Bomb supports the Daizenshuu Of Kid Buu Being more powerful then SS3 Goku.. he was simply toying with Goku..
Therefore Gt base Goku when he encountered Rildo would be more powerful than the Buu Saga Spirit Bomb.... either Kid Buu was holding back or he was exponentially adapting and Getting Stronger as He Fought SS3 Goku.. it's interesting to note that the only time kid buu was struggling/Panicing when he was handling the Spirit Bomb before he pushed it back.
" Buu sage " don't think other wise Gogeta fans😒
People hates GT because it's boring for them so yeah but the sad thing is that funny they try to say GT goku is a glass lvl but he destroyed a whole void but nobody cares... show some attention to GT..
@Saiyan Scholar - As always great video, love seeing these GT shutdown these stupid DBZ Vegetto Fanboys :D
GT always gets downplayed where in reality its even more broken than Super.. But apparently im not a proper fan right? because SSJ Vegetto ofc is stronger than SS4 Goku so what do i know...?? LOL
But dragon ball fans just cant read and prob never even watched GT and they spout random crap like that :D
@Saiyan Scholar I agree with this 1 thousand percent and no im not being a hype man but the facts you stated where straight facts but ofc your videos are always facts but this makes since because if gt at the time was a contunion of Z it makes since Ssj4 goku wins why well look at the Transformation Goku in ssj4 is relaxed and has completely control over it never once was he knocked out of the from which makes since since this is the same goku who made super saiyan his base from 10 days before the cell games meaning if he can do that he'd already know how to control ssj4 and ssj4 is Also more of a saiyan from more of a back to the roots kinda from so this makes since why he would not only be stronger but could easily hold his own but also great video I loved it and learned qllt keep it up
Vegito could touch super saiyan 4 goku if Vegito turns into super saiyan 4.
Its hard to debate when dragon ball is never consistent. We have clear facts from dragon ball that a BASE vegito was toying with a fused BUU + GOHAN.
And Gohan was already on ss3 level since he was dominating buu, so Buhan is way stronger than ss3.
That means easily Base vegito > ss3, ss2, ss1.
So a SS Vegito should already be way stronger than ss4 and atleast on the level of Saiyan god. Same thing for Gogeta. If dragon ball was consistent, a SSB Gogeta should be too much for even Broly.
My personal view is that SSJ4 should basically be titled as something akin to an ultimate Saiyan form. 'God' if its necessary. Everything else to me is essentially a super saiyan form, and most are needless, they're never adequate as they always need a higher / stronger form. The transformations maybe cool animation and dramatic but as master Roshi did say to Goku in Dragon Ball, 'there's always someone stronger ' so learn humility. SSJ4 often implies throughout the story is that he 'has no limits ' - the indomitable.
I knew that Rooster Teeth got it wrong they pitted Fusion Dance Gogeta vs Potara Vegetto. Gogeta should have totally won that fight in SSJ4.
Why we debating this..ssj4 goku I much more powerful
Another theory I have, is the fact that we should take a count that this guide was realise in the late 90's, back in the day, the only reference people got for a potara fusion multiplier was the Daizenshuu's from Toriyama.
So by that time, watching Vegito as Goku x Vegeta, instead of Goku + Vegeta x100 (like you say now) it was the most reliable power up from a fusion they had.
Now we know it's probably not the case and was not coherent we what we saw, specially in the modern Dragon Ball, but again, if we think in the context of the guide (late 90's) it does make sense that Super Vegito is around the power of Super Saiyan 4 Goku.
Just let's take your power levels as an example.
If instead of Vegito being the addition plus a 100 times boost from Goku and Vegeta, you multiply their power (again with your own numbers in power, being Goku and Vegeta around 11 Billion) that would make a Super Vegito from the Buu Saga having a power level around 250 Septillion, and when you do compare this power level with the scales the made for DBGT, it's not that far, it's not that crazy.
So yes, now in the day with all retcons about fusion and all the new information we know in the modern Dragon Ball franchise, Super Saiyan 4 Goku is far, but like REALLY FAR ahead from Vegito even in Super Saiyan 3 from the Buu Saga, but back in the day, again, with the context on it, I think the guide made sense.
Isnt GT noncanon? If that’s the case. SSJ4 Goku ISNT STRONGER than merged fused Ultra Ego Vegeto. Or can we talk about 2013 more?
Dude compared 50k kid buu power with 6 sextillion 💀
Yup🤣🤣these vegito fans gotta be humbled.
Something tells me this guy is a SSJ4 fan boy (Profile is a bit of a easy guess) 😐
Vegito in general not just in Z is better than SSJ4 ._.
I always feel like with these types of videos people use logic that makes sense but wasnt intended at ALL when the story was written.
Face the music all you GT haters because guess what..... with Dragon Ball there is NO SUCH THING as NON-CANON. Everything is Canon. Yes. Everything. DBZ/GT/Super/Heroes. It's all canon to their own timelines/stories. Non-canon doesn't exist for Dragon Ball. Deal with it. I like it better this way. It's great. The only thing non-canon is Dragon Ball Evolution and the much older film you should never watch; Dragon Ball The Magic Begins.
People seems to underestimate and forget that base gt goku ( without a tail) in base form is comparable to goku ssj3 in z if not stronger. When gt goku got his tail grow back he achieved a saiyan true potential and boosted all his super saiyan forms. Gt goku ( with a tail) would be much stronger than a ssj3 in z but only half of ssj god as base form x 4000 times when he is a ssj4. I doubt ultra instinct can beat ssj4 unless it become master MI
Look, I'll make an even easier debunk.
Goten states Baby when he arrives on Earth is the strongest guy they've faced so far. Goten saw Super Buu. Base Goten > Baby > Super Buu. Buu's absorbtions are additions to his power, so Buuhan is Super Buu + Ultimate Gohan + Piccolo + Goten & Trunks, which effectively totals up to 2.5x Super Buu. That means SSJ Goten when he fought Baby is well over 20x stronger than Buuhan. Base Vegito is relative to Buuhan. Base GT Gohan is stronger than SSJ GT Goten by a significant amount (as Gohan states in subbed that he needs to hold back to not kill his brother). That means Super Vegito is relative to Base GT Gohan. Base GT Goku slapped SSJ GT Gohan.
It's not even close. Even taking info from *just* the Baby saga would put Base GT Goku above SSJ3 Z Vegito, nevermind comparing Super Vegito to SSJ4 Goku.
Oh, and to top it all off, Goku suggests in the fight with Golden Great Ape Baby that SSJ4 at full strength > a weakened SSJ4 + SSJ3 GT Gotenks, and Base GT Goten / Trunks are *way* more powerful than SSJ3 Buu saga Goku. Plus if you suggest that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu, that digs Vegito's grave even more since that means Base GT Goten is stronger than Buuhan and Base Vegito!
Just because Goten says baby is stronger than super buu doesn't imply Goten is stronger than super buu????? He's literally just saying that the villian (baby) is stronger than the previous villain he fought (super buu)
@@yes1667 it does when Base Goten casually dunked on Baby while on the phone and only took a minor scratch.
I think arguing Baby absorbed Base Rildo's power is better than using Goten statement. Because Baby needs to absorb someone fully to control them and explains he absorbed power of people he took over to Trunks.
People can argue he is referring to Tuffle human.
@@ragnarok7452 I was just basing things off of just one arc to prove exactly how much of a mismatch this is.
Base goten on kid buu level????
Super is like a separate universe. Which is why bardock and the saiyans as a whole are so different.
No it's not
You don't decide what is and isn't canon
@@youtubeshadowbannedme you are right u don't b but the end of z said the ten year time skip was times of peace which decimates any chance of super being connected to z at all. It's not the same universe.
Canon in super is a funny thing. Toriyama isn't as involved in DB series as he used to be, he just tells Toei and Toyotaro what is the goal of the story and they make anime and manga how they imagine Goku gets there.
Half of DBS anime isn't canon, and the same goes to half of the manga. We have things that overlap which we can guess are the instructions Toriyama told both, but everything else isn't canon.
First
Ur 2nd
超サイヤ人4以上の強さかも!? ("Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4?!")
It's a sinless, extra little note just making a point of how vastly awesome and strong Vegito is. Certain fans like to use this to twist arguments for whatever their particular strength debate needs are (saying Buu arc Vegito/Super Vegito ≥ Baby arc SSJ4 Goku), but there's really no sense in getting hung up on it. It's a statement formulated as a question just to be hyperbolic in the actual sense of the term. This kind of stuff is purposefully written vaguely and they're not even committing to the question they're asking.
Can't be saying that. This is the KEY AND ONLY statement allowed in this discussion 😂
Best Fusion vs Best Super Saiyan Transformation
I’m a huge ssj4 fanboy it’s my favorite design of all but everyone heavily down plays Vegito potential.. he didn’t need to go above ssj1 against buu. Vegito was about even with buuhan in base, 50x multiplier from ssj1 he was just toying around imagine SSJ3 Vegito going all out. I still think ssj4 goku from GT would win but not easy it would be a good battle
Did you just not watch the video or something
Even in base form vegito was toying with super buu
Bro he even said base form of GT Goku would easily stomp on Vegito
@@notamethadict you mean kid goku? You kidding right?
@@irasac1 No GT Goku and GT kid Goku's base form are the same It's just the size
Facts are facts, sequel characters are and MUST be stronger than their previous incarnation so the story can progress and amaze the audience, nuff said
Depends on a case to case basis and how the narrative handles it
Just cause new does not mean stronger, we see in boruto that naruto was nerfed as was the case with kratos in God of war 4
I thought everyone agreed using guides in any debate past 2016 was a dumb idea? Apparently not.
Now Ssj3 Vegetto, can prove trouble for Base Gt Goku though...
How strong would Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 4 be?
Pretty much Super Saiyan God/Saiyan Beyond God plus Super Saiyan 4 as a form and in terms of power boosts.
"(A+B) x 100" might be easier to read/understand. There's someone who might skip doing the A+B part first.
I don't even like GT and I think the way people downplay the power-scales in it is stupid and ignorant. But wow saying SSJ Vegito is stronger than SSJ4 Goku is ridiculous, still not as ridiculous as this guy who said Krillin (my favorite character) was stronger than SSJ3 Goku since he was able to fight Kid Buu in a filler episode. Those braincells still haven't recovered.
Ssj3 lowballed GT Goku is already stronger than base Z Vegito at the very beginning. If base z is 125x stronger than ssj3, and base gt = base ssj3 (at beginning) then...actually no, an ssj3 END OF Z goku would be stronger than base z vegito. Not taking into account even the first arc of GT. In fact, if he got 200x stronger by the start of GT, he'd already be stronger than an ssj3 vegito in ssj3. (200x ssj3 goku/EoZ goku, then 400x for ssj3 = 80,000x Z ssj3 goku) Ssj3 First Episode GT Goku > Ssj3 Vegito (using the estimates)
It also explains why goku was sent off world as a three year old in super where as in the original he was literally an infant.
I'm pretty sure the misunderstanding for kid buu relating to the entire explanation of how it works being cut from the dub of the anime completely. Kid Buu is the strongest base form of Buu and that is by far. Considering how badly he beats SSJ3 goku he's probably double SSJ3 goku in that form. He's so much stronger than Fat Buu that he beats him like Cell beats Hercule in the Cell Saga. That's because Fat Buu isn't even a Buu and is a kai.
Where Super Buu is stronger is the pointless absorbing of characters that are his only competition. It's why Vegito was the only way to stop Super Buu after absorbing every other strong fighter in the series. Vegito is probably stronger than Kid Buu, but he's also way stronger than Buuhan too. It's hard to compare to a char who can trash both forms and is a huge basis in the confusion.
The thing is that Kid Buu achieved the most feats of any villain in Z. He successfully destroyed Earth. Something no other villain achieved until GT or Super. He beat every Z fighter at least once. He was the strongest being at the end of Z.
Kid Buu is Majin Buu's Purest Form as the universes Evil. What explanation was cut from the dub is that Fat Buu is severely weaker than Evil and Base Super Buu because Buu's power comes from being the manifestation of the universes evil. Thus a lot of the comparisons people make to Fat Buu to Kid Buu are just flatout wrong and explained in the Japanese version of the buu saga. Then they compare Buuhan to him which doesn't really matter because they can't exist at the same time. They forget that there was no answer to Kid Buu that anyone was willing to do when they fight him. Just like there was only 1 answer to the strongest form of Super Buu. In comparison to the fighters they had to fight then Kid Buu was the stronger villain because they didn't want to permanently fuse into Vegito. He trashed every character in the series without absorbing anyone and was about to wipe out the universe when he was beating Goku at the end. Goku only won because of a wish as he was losing to Kid Buu.
So it's a matter of perspective. What matters more? The villain having a higher power level, or the Z Fighters having no answer at all to the bad guy. Their best bet was the Spirit Bomb and that technically failed cuz Goku didn't have the power to force it into Kid Buu until the wish. =3
kid buu isnt the strongest buu at most he is comparable to super buu. kid buu would lose to buutenks and buuhan easily. goku went from fearing super buu and wanting to refuse to seeing kid buu and asking to play rock paper scissors with vegeta to run 1v1s. even goku could tell kid buu was weaker. kid buu was only stated to be the most evil buu not strongest. ultimate gohan could wipe kid buu easily only reason buu didnt have to deal with gohan was he was unconscious from being absorbed, Goku even thought they would use the wish to bring gohan back to fight buu instead of using it to restore his own power. So any character stronger than super buu can kill kid buu. this is going off the manga btw, i ignore the anime cause it does its own thing and messes up scalings. like super sayian goku and vegeta beating ultimate gohan, gotenks ssj3 and piccolo inside of buu
@@II_worm_II You mistook my comment pretty much completely. Also your own comment has too much head canon to take seriously. xD
The Japanese version of the anime screws up a lot less things than the dub does. The english dub is pretty much where all of the inconsistencies lie. There are entire episodes that got cut from the English dub.
So it's not that the anime screws up the scalings, but that the scalings are outright different to begin with. Then when you mix that with mistranslations and misinformation from the dub it creates a nightmare scenario of what to believe or not.
For instance one of the episodes that got cut was the one that explained that Buu gains more power based on his Evil. It was meant to explain why absorbing the fat kai weakened him so drastically. He was pure good which doesn't bode well for a being that literally draws it's power from Evil.
22:05
Technically, Goku knew Dragon Fist in the Tapion movie
Much appreciated.. how do I don’t quite agree on all the loveseat to go from two. They fall in line with everything you said to attend for the most part. Thank you for the video I really needed this to recover from the super movie
Amazing into bro keep on the great work
Easy man easy
Ssj4 the multiplier of that form is not just =ssj3 ×10
It is ssj3×10(power of ozaru+ anger ) ×50( the power of golden Ozaru) ×2 = ssj3×500
Ssj3= 400
Ssj4 = 400×10 ×50 ×2
Ssj4 =200.000
Vegito.= A×b×100
Goku 5
Vegeta = 4
Vegito= 5×4 ×100= 2000
myyyyyyy heeeeeeeaaaad😂😂😢😢
Goku gt >vegito z
Goku gt ssj >> vegitoz
Goku ssj gt > vegito ssj z
Goku gt ssj2>> vegito ssj z
Goku ssj2> vegito ssj 2 z
Goku gt ssj3>> vegito z ssj 3
Goku gt ssj4 >>> vegito ssj3
Goku gt ssj4 >>. Vegito GT
Goku gt ssj4> vegito kaioken 20
Goku gt ssj4< vegito gt ssj
Goku gt ssj 4 full power
Nice mention of GT vegito.
I know it's a fan manga, but I really really respect your ability and knowledge. Is there any way possible to scale Ultra Vegito from CallmeArjs fan manga God Killer in any way? Or is it simply absurd? If it is absurd, then why? Hit me with all you got comments, and scholar, I for one and probably many others would love to hear what you have to say.
Actually I remember this debate would come up way back when people would compare a hypothetical Vegito ss3 to Gogeta ss4.
Super Vegito has blonde shiny spiky hair and SSJ4 Goku has black hair though
You know what dragon ball Gt it's so beyond
Because more story it's
Hide the dragon ball GT
That's why i like dragon ball GT like one all peace series is good
Before new gear 5
I dunno man... Ultra Super Vegito is really kicking my butt when I use SSJ4 Goku in Legends, so maybe there's some truth to it...
Ryu's been on this weird and stupid guides>direct material wave and it's pretty idiotic.
I remember posts about Gogeta being the stronger version than Vegito or the other way around, I mean they both are the same fusion so are they the same power level and I always thought they are the same power level. Don't want to start a debate or conflict just want to know your thoughts
OHHHH YEAAAHHH
OOOOOOHHHHHHH YEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHH
OHHH YEAAAAAHHH SSJ 4 Guy!
In the Original Z anime, goku was evenly matched with ultimate gohan inside buus body. A guide book said that inside buu, goku and vegeta were at 1% power due to shrinking. Filler is wank
Early
There’s no way people really think this is a actual argument the disrespect gt gets is crazy cuz in gt gohan never stopped training and every time he would get screen time he would get wrecked and goku was leaps beyond gohan in this kid form gt idk the proof is in the pudding
its kinda weird to have 2 pretty different characters be a heated debate, great and interesting video though
Db fans don’t have anything better to talk about lol
The only problem I had with the GT series is the Yin/Yang thing about using the Dragon Balls. I am not saying the Shadow Dragons were bad, they were actually pretty good, but the whole Yin/Yang thing was bad. Everything else was great. Loved the actual transformations of SSJ4 look. It looked like an upgrade from SSJ3.
Yeah, DBZ SSJ Vegito is way weaker than SSJ4 Goku.