I would ask why the show producers didn’t so more to protect the workers and address the issues with the actors…it shouldn’t have been tolerated and the industry is rife with this behaviour because actors aren’t tackled directly so their behaviour is not challenged…🤷🏻♂️
Couldn't help thinking about Christopher Eccleson leaving the show after season one, reporting that there were a number of things that he was unhappy about in the environment and culture. He worked with both Noel Clarke and John Barrowman.
Eccleston reportedly quit after the first episode, but still had to finish the season as part of his contract. I can't remember when Mickey appears in the first season, but Barrowman didn't arrive until towards the end. Either way, that timeline doesn't fit.
@@marsmartin My initial comment was from my immediate reaction, but I think the timeline probably does fit. If I remember rightly, Christopher Eccleson quit after the first episode was actually aired. A significant amount of the series would've been in the can by then. And the character of Mickey appeared in the very first episode. An actual quote from Ecclestone is 'I didn't enjoy the environment and the culture that we, the cast and the crew had to work in.' This would be a culture that was tolerant of the behaviours that Mister Tardis has described.
Definitely hope the film industry gets better safeguarding against these sexual harassments and abuse cases. I hope Barrowman can truly learn from his mistakes and understand how what he did was wildly inappropriate, he has a chance to improve and shouldn’t abuse his position as a high ranking actor
Don't tell this to his fanbase on Twitter. They basicly send you away with the comment: "He apologized in the past, shut up." That makes me seriously worried about the fan community.
I hope people can get a sense of humor and stop taking shit so serious all the time Noel Clark was in the wrong if people can’t see that are community is dumb
The thing that gets me with all the attempts to exonerate barrowman is they all leave out the fact that nothing happens in a vacuum. At the end of that clip where Clarke says 'dont do that at your work, you'll get arrested' - that's him drawing attention to barrowman getting away with outrageous behaviour - the idea that outrageous behaviour is okay basically got accepted in that environment, so therefore behaviour like Clarke's would seem more innocuous than it actually was. People seem to be trying to rigidly separate the person we know we shouldn't like anymore (Clarke) from the person we want to still like (barrowman) when he was a part of an environment where someone like Clarke was apparently allowed to thrive
Certainly your hatred of "white" men didn't happen in a vaccuum. If it had been a "black" woman who exposed herself for a stupid joke and even apologized for it over a decade ago, you wouldn't have cared.
From what little I’ve read I get the idea that the Noel situation was creepy, predatory and perverted whereas John Barrowman seems to be a quite sex positive guy who isn’t predatory or in any way threatening to his coworkers but took things unacceptably too far while having a ball on set. Maybe he needs some counseling with establishing appropriate boundaries that work for him and his coworkers but still allow him to have a comfortable, relaxed and open atmosphere on set.
Extremely minor concern of course, but RIP the clips of David Tennant shaking his fist and shouting "Barrowman!" on Never Mind The Buzzcocks. It was fun while it lasted, but it turned out to be too honest.
A surprising number of men think getting their bits out is hilarious. I'm sad Barrowman kept going after a reprimand. This has nothing to do with "Cancel Culture". It's about standards of behaviour in public life, Barrowman as a 'brand' and issues involving sexual equality in the workplace. Nerderotic seems to overlook actual evidence including Barrowman repeatedly admitted his behaviour.
I'd say he has a point about 'cancel culture' in general, we must remember that our society works on a bases of 'innocent until proven guilty', but he's completely and utterly wrong in this case. There seems to be enough evidence in this and the Noel Clarke case, to see they are true.
Why are you so upset about seeing a man's "bits"? If people looked at these men and yawned or laughed at them, they would stop pretty fast. Maybe you should get therapy about your issues regarding the human body. Museums exhibit sculpture of naked men and woman as art.
I think that what Barrowman did was awful, but not as bad as Noel due his intent to be as a joke, not as in Noels case an actual act of Sexual Assault. And also the fact he did fully apologise for it and take full responsibility for his actions. Still, what he did was terrible and shouldn’t be overlooked.
I agree with you entirely, except where you say he took full responsibility for his actions. He said 'nobody complained' which doesn't exactly sound like taking responsibility...
23:15 Laughing my arse off at the 'No wonder Christopher Eccleston left the show after one season' comment on Nerdrotic's video. Boy, is Robbie the Pict gonna hate what Chris thinks about Friedrich Engels...
Eccleston said it was because of the management and the way workers were treated---not a stupid practical joke. He's got the same equipment, so why should he be so upset? Hasn't he ever been in a men's locker room before?
22:42 So, I'm going to be really direct here: to anyone who doesn't like Chibb's era and watches these guys, this is what you're okay with? This is who you want speaking for you, being YOUR voice? Guys who think systemic abuse in film and TV, something that causes real harm, is some kind of lefty soy conspiracy? This is what you stand for? You hate Jodie this much that you consider THIS a-okay?
Thank you. I happen to like each of these eras, but that has to be considered apart from this behavior. As for the current Doctor Who kerfluffle... sorry, folks, but having been a fan of the program since I discovered it around 1978-79... this whole thing just strikes me as completely nuts.....
It’s totally fine to dislike any era of Doctor Who IMO. It’s all opinion at the end of the day. But actively just spreading hate like this is just really upsetting for people like me who just wants the Doctor who community to be a much nicer place. Also, I’m so tired of these channels just constantly popping up in my recommendations
It genuinely scares me that people like Nerdrotic seem to genuinely want a world where they can get away with sexual harrassment and abuse towards women. I don't know why the fuck else they would try to defend sexual abuse in the workplace.
He is a political propagandist, in another video he'd be calling drag queens 'groomers' for reading books to kids. He believes whatever is convenient to his political narrative in the moment. He and others like him are a hive mind, they don't care about being contradictory or what the consequences of their beliefs are, only that their audience has a cult-like devotion to the right political party and their leaders.
Honestly all i have to say about john is what the hell was he thinking? Who does something like that even with close mates thats not something that would come to mind to me atleast
Despite the unfortunate nature of this video, it really makes me thankful that you have taken the time to address this in a reasonable and calm manner. You are one of the three people I trust about News pertaining to the industry. And I am reassured that if you are willing to stand up for what is right, the TV/Film industry will be a better place with you as a contributor.
Oh gawd, why even MENTION Nerdrotic? Such a sad, tragic individual. I blocked all his content on YT over a year ago as I was sick of his bizarre rants disguised as "reviews" being recommended in my feed. There is something fundamentally wrong about someone who measures their "masculinity" by the length of their beard and the amount of time they spend whining about "feminazis" and "wokeness".
@@shortangel333 You are doubt one of the most horrible people I no And I am glad I do not no you Comparing other people and there honest opinions to Nazis makes you a dispicable person Having been to one of the Concentration Camps where people who did not fit the Nazi narrative where put to death I would with it on no one, not even you Give your head a wobble and go and join the rest of the human race and be productive
Do you ever wonder where creators like Nerdrotic draw the line? Like it seems like being a SA apologist, openly racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic and transphobic are all on the table; how fucked up would something have to be for NMDs to actually go “nah that’s a bit far”.
Council of Geeks did a good video on this, technically two (but the latter was about how ‘no one complaining doesn’t make it okay’ which I agree with).
He also went over the fact that someone DID complain. It's just that it's the talent that isn't complaining, who ostensibly have more power than the people behind the scenes.
I love how one of the main excuses is "Oh it was so long ago" ya know like Barrowman was some naive young lad fresh out of a pub on Friday night, the guy was THIRTY SEVEN years old when Series 1 was being filmed!!! He knew exactly what he was doing! He should know the difference between right and wrong, I don't wanna hear otherwise, indecent exposure is indecent exposure, end of!
Reposting the comment I left on Council of Geek's video on this issue: "Regarding the stuff about Barrowman, having been in drama and actor circles myself, I know the kind of atmosphere that can develop when enough cast and crew get comfortable with another, it can result in stupid things happening, with bystanders drafted along for the ride. If I were to describe it further, I'd say it's like getting 'drink off the atmosphere', it's not an excuse but does give context to the intent of those in the industry when these incidents occur."
Yeah, Barrowman's probably headed down the same road as Noel Clarke, with his removal from Time Fracture and Big Finish backing away from a Torchwood audio reunion. Safe to assume that he's probably not going to be returning in Series 13.
@GamingWithChu Yeah. Well, like Mr. Tardis said, there is some room for John Barrowman to be able to bounce back from it. Noel Clarke is set in stone, but John still has a small chance
Haven't they been shooting Series 13 since before christmas? If he WAS supposed to be in it, there might still be time to rewrite stuff. But if there's like 1 Jack episode in it and they've already done it, I wouldn't count on them being able to replace all of it easily. Of course, we don't know whether he was ever meant to return in S13 to begin with, so they may well only have to consider future plans.
@@rowanc88 I dunno, sexual harassment in the workplace and whatever it was James Gunn said on Twitter make these different situations. Pretty sure he only got rehired after Dave Bautista threatened to drop out after Endgame.
It'll be interesting seeing what does happen with Absent Friends (maybe it will just collect dust in the cupboard with that Tom Baker and James Dreyfus Master story). Hopefully Barrowman redeems himself for the sake of his career and his fans. It would just be nice if we could go one week in the community without someone being a predator. It's the easiest thing in the world to avoid doing and people still do it. My heart goes out to all of the people hurt by the likes of Noel and John, as well as the handful of fans who have similarly been outed in recent weeks. We can't continue to let this behaviour stand.
I've read a lot of comments on Reddit forums about a supposed Fourth Doctor and Dreyfus Master story, but are there any concrete sources on it? Besides, I'd imagine, given that the Fourth Doctor audios are recorded years in advance, that story, if it does actually exist, will get released at some point. I'll wholly admit I'm curious about Dreyfus' Master and would be happy to see this story release (again if it is real), even though Dreyfus is transphobic. Same goes for Absent Friends. If Big Finish don't want to release it now, given all of Barrowman's negative publicity, that's fair. But a performed story that reunites Jack Harkness with the Tenth Doctor would be a terrible shame to axe completely. I really hope at some point it does get released.
@@radioactivecheesenowinnucl4746 I did see a clip from an interview with Dreyfus saying he had recorded it and I believe it was mentioned in an interview when Destination Wars came out. But you could be right, seeing as they've got stuff recorded until about 2024 or something like that, it could just be scheduled for later down the line, if Big Finish are still planning on doing it that is.
Really good look at the whole thing. I think it is important to separate this from Noel Clarke but that’s not to diminish what John has done. Genuinely surprised this wasn’t addressed sooner as it was certainly very open knowledge at the cons I’ve been to. I hope John can address what he’s done and make amends and get the opportunity to rebuild, but it’s absolutely in his court to do that. If nothing else this will hopefully have a widespread impact on all production to stop this behaviour.
A friend worked in a theatre as a set decorator and props man. He left that job because of sexual pestering by another more senior member of staff. The theatre wasn't interested in his complaints so he left that job. This was back in the 1980s.
When I see how many people say online that they have been sexually harrassed, I'm shocked. People, this is not a normal thing and it should never treated as such.
@@timrob12 But back then it was sadly. It takes time and a whole generation to die out to be free of it, and even then I'm sure knowing human nature it won't be completely wiped out.
My opinion for the first time was Julie Gardner confronted Barrowman and he apologized for it, so it's should be fine. But apparently he's still doing it in the set for Miracle Day. That's practically nullified that apology. Just like some (most?) fans, I do want to listen to Tenth and Captain Jack's reunion story. But if it ended up not being released, I'm fine. The series, the fandom, the whole f***in world won't crumble down just because one audio story doesn't got released. There is more Torchwood audio stories and Tenth Doctor's audio stories out there - probably even better.
I wonder if this Barrowman incident was kept under wraps for a long time until Clarke flapped his gums about it to deflect and distract what was being said about him. Barrowman has reputation and now it proceeds him but Clarke had no right bringing it up in the first place stirring up the pot and damaged John's career. I agree John should lay low for a while and then comment when the time is right not now
John's behaviour was never a secret and was spoken about openly by himself and others in interviews and at panels since 2005. The video of Noel discussing it was from almost 10 years ago. It wasn't an attempt at deflection. I think the information has gotten very confused. I've seen lots of people say that over the past few weeks.
You clearly didn’t pay attention. Clarke never brought it up to distract from what was being said about him. The clip from the Boom Town panel resurfaced and that’s what put Barrowman under the spotlight for his behaviour.
Agree with everything said here. I hope Barrowman grows and could come back but the safety and happiness of everyone MUST come first. Also didn't know about Nerdrotic video, that just makes me sick!
Nerdrotic is easily one of the most loathsome RUclipsrs I can think of, his channel breeds toxicity. He makes terrible content that clearly comes from a very angry place, it's hard to believe he's even a Doctor Who fan at all
The guy is so anti-woke that he thinks everything wrong with media is "politics". Think we can all agree that whatever perceived politics in S11/12 of Doctor Who being removed isn't going to make to better. This is the same guy that thinks Star Trek was not political/progressive in the past too. Imagine that, a show that is praised for having the first interracial kiss on TV and a black captain. The same person who got mad at an episode of the Mandalorian because a female Mandalorian was strong. His take was so bad, the comments actually pointed it out that it makes sense for mandalorians of all genders to be strong and capable.
@@themonado5030 He's an unscrupulous hack who gets easy views, subs and likes by preaching to the "anti-woke" choir. It's not just about Doctor Who; he'll happily slag off any show/movie that doesn't conform to his and his flock's regressive worldview.
Tbh I’m with John Barrowman. Like he’s just being light-hearted and he isn’t hurting anyone with these jokes or his sense of humour, at the most he’s making people feel uncomfortable. Sure, that isn’t ideal, but I mean you play that risk when you make these types jokes. For me personally, if I was on set with John barrowman and he whipped out his meat and veg, I would be in bits; I’d find it hilarious. I can understand people not getting the sense of humour, but this isn’t as serious as Noel Clarke actually being predatory. I also think the intent should be looked at with more importance. Like sure, his sense of humour is different, but does that make him a bad person?
MrT isn't saying it's the same as Clarke, but there is, undeniably, a power imbalance here in what Barrowman has been getting away with. Fine if you're not bothered, but then, you're not working with the guy in a high-pressure environment like TV.
Gary (for that is Nerdrotic's name) is nothing more than an outrage merchant (like most of the Fan-dumb Menace) and based on his appearance and views (if he really believes them and isn't just grifting), he wouldn't look out of place in the presence of the Proud Boys (is it any wonder Gary's wife left him?). And surprise surprise, the biggest Nazi of all the fan-dumb Jeremy of Geeks + Gamers is in that vid with Gary too.
Geeks & Gamers here today were talking (for the 1000th time) about how THE LIBRULS AND SJWS AND THE TRANGENDER COMMIES ARE DESTROYING STAR WARS AND THE WEST AND REEEE BRIE LARSONNNNN
"critics" like nerdotic, heels baby, bowlstrek g Caught me when they few points I agreed with. Then I notice them tripping over themselves, spreading racist, sexist and homophobic remarks. Noel Clark should go to prison for what's he done in my opinion.
Gotta love that warning, “don’t show your junk, it’ll be bad for your career” not “it’s assault” not “no one wants to see that (or have that ON THEIR SHOULDER)” only thinking of his job, people are gross
What’s sad about the situation is that all of this is happening at once which means the community doesn’t really get the ability to focus on one thing properly. Right now we’re dealing with people in the community from seemingly all rangers who have been exposed for being predators. John Barrowman - Exposed Noel Clarke - Exposed Tony Coburn - Exposed WhoTuber/Cosplayer who has been trying to solicit minors. RedHeadedChinny/Vlogzy - WhoTuber/cosplayer recently exposed for coercing women into situations against their consent. Hopefully all these toxic people can be held accountable properly since the last thing Doctor Who needs is people like this being a part of it, especially for a fandom that so heavily includes Children as it’s core audience
I agree with you about John, whom I really like. Noel Clarke is another matter, but I still think the allegations need to be tested in a law court. I am ver uncomfortable with anyone’s career being ended. because of untested allegations, no matter who they are.
@@SavageBroadcast l think the allegations do mean something, all I mean is that there should be an investigation, in order to properly know what happened.
I am sad that we won’t get to see the character of Capt Jack in Time Fracture and Absent Friends being delayed release, but I’m glad Barrowman and especially Noel Clarke are getting reprimanded for their actions.
There's something continuity-related that has been going through my mind. Steven Moffat introduced both Jack Harkness and River Song, but never brought Jack back during his time as show-runner. I'm not sure if it's true that he wanted Jack in "A Good Man Goes To War" and for Jack to be decapitated by the Headless Monks, so becoming the Face of Boe. If so, then this would have ended Jack as we know him, and make it unlikely that Barrowman could ever return. Steven Moffat was also responsible for the cracks-in-time arc, which enabled whole adventures of the RTD era to be removed. For example, in "Victory of the Daleks" we learn that the events of "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" have been removed (Amy can't remember the Dalek invasion). And that is the adventure in which Mickey returned to our universe. So, it looks like Steven Moffat set up an in-show way of ensuring that Mickey could not appear again.
Sounds a bit convoluted to me. Given what Chibnall's done in the last series I doubt any writer would seriously interpret Moffat's writing as an attempt to stop Mickey coming back ever.
I don't think there was any chance of Mickey coming back anyway. They seemed pretty finished with him and the majority of companions in that era by End of Time
Afaik, Moffat wanted Captain Jack to be part of the team in the Demon's Run, but Barrowman was busy filming Miracle Day. Idk anything about Moffat wanted the scene where Captain Jack is decapitated though.
Probably because that would be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. People can choose not to watch something on iPlayer. To offer another hoary old saw, BF are obeying the most important rule of crisis management: stop digging. They have to protect their investment from someone who has become a liability.
I always thought Christopher Eccleston was being a grumpy sod and even possibly a little homophobic when he would talk ill about working with John Barrowman... but I kind of understand where he's coming from now...
I find it difficult that a fan of dr who would not have known that JB regularly used to whip it out. Admittedly I did not know it amounted to more than showing it to people he knew
Part of me wonder how Nerdrotic would react if he saw you’re reaction and thoughts on his videos. Would he actually be stupid enough to upload a vid to why your views are wrong (which of course they aren’t. You’re clearly better than him)? It won’t surprise if he doesn’t have any shame to do so.
Thank you so much for this video. There have been so many people prioritising the wrong things regarding this situation and it is so great to hear someone articulate everything that I have been trying to say. I really applaud you for this level headed discussion and you are right that people such as Time Fracture and Big Finish are completely right to cancel their projects regarding JB. The only thing that I think may have been mishandled is that ITV cancelled Barrowman’s show Dancing On Ice. While I completely think it is massively justified and right to remove Barrowman from the project I find it unfair on the cast, crew and fans of that show to have it pulled as people undoubtedly put loads of effort into the show and I don’t find it fair that they should lose their jobs based on one persons actions. They were justified in removing him but in my opinion I think they should have recast. Edit: Apologies. I was unaware that the show has not in fact been cancelled but is being urged to by people in the industry. My argument still stands that I think recasting Barrowman should be done instead of cancelling it but I apologise for my misrepresenting of the situation.
I think this situation should be compared to serial pick-pocket and someone who’s defrauded many innocents of thousands. I mean yeah, both are awful and should be punished but punishment should be proportional to the crime, that’s all I’m saying.
I would be very interested in what Christopher Eccleston has to say given these revelations. Given it was reportedly over issues of production’s treatment of production staff he left, I wouldn’t be shocked if Noel and John were part of the reason nine left.
Considering “Doctor Who” is historically filmed out of airing order (meaning they probably would have filmed episodes more extensively featuring Barrowman and Clarke earlier on, since they both feature extensively in the finale), I would almost 110% guarantee Eccleston knew about it, raised it to RTD, and quit when RTD didn’t take it seriously. Agyeman also reported it to RTD, and quit the show when he laughed it off instead of doing anything (which is why Martha is a one season companion). We already know the BBC had Eccleston “blacklisted” to prevent him talking about/being believed about what happened behind the scenes. Kinda makes you wonder what he knew that they didn’t want out there.
@@MrMarsFargo The BBC has a history of protecting abusers, Jimmy Saville and Russell Brand being more examples. They really should learn from their past rather than sticking to this cover up narrative.
@@MrMarsFargo So if Agyeman really had such an issue, why would she work on Torchwood for two episodes after Doctor Who? Bare in mind, you've made this claim so back it up.
Intent is important, as you say. The law requires evidence of an intent to cause distress. Ergo, someone would need to make a complaint about Barrowman. If anyone who was there feels Barrowman was intending to intimidate, threaten or sexually harass them, they should report it (there is no limitation on time). It's more telling that, after weeks of this, no one has come forward, despite him trending repeatedly. Barrowman has a juvenile sense of humour and a weird obsession with the shock value of flashing his bits. It's a classic attention seeking thing. Weird, sure, but we can't ignore the fact that cultural response to this has changed a lot in recent years. We wouldn't have Carry On movies or Allo Allo made today for example. Likewise, I'm far more concerned about predatory behaviour right now than historic pranks, which someone has apologised for repeatedly. Apologies have to count or what's the point in anyone ever changing?
But how much do apologies count if you keep doing it? The reason people aren't going with 'but he said sorry before' is Barrowman kept on whipping out his ding-a-ling-long-lang after. So much so it's a running gag among fans.
@@SavageBroadcast If anyone ever asked him to apologise, he apologised. If he did it later no one said anything, or asked for it, what are you expecting here? It's a running gag because he's far from the only person who finds bits and bobs funny. I just don't know what people are expecting to happen here.
And here's the sad thing - Nedro/Gary could totally use his platform and fanbase to combat misconduct in film and TV, give a voice to those who actually need it and have somewhere to help raise awareness of actual problems in film and TV (not the 'muh feminizum' boogeyman), but that would require effort, integrity and respect for other human beings, rather than pawns in your stupid culture war.
Also it wouldn't make him as much money, and he ain't gonna bite the hand that feeds him. He's just a greedy and heartless individual. Him and those other clones.
@@shadow-scope-fsm7165 After all, Kathleen Kennedy is the real evil producer in Hollywood. Scott Rudin, a power-tripping maniac who smashes computers on his assistants' hands? He doesn't make geeky shit, so he's not worthy of livestreams.
I really expected a Doctor Who teaser during the FA cup final for the same reason you say at the start of this video. Honestly suprised we haven't got one yet
The current production team seems to keep its cards close to its chest on marketing. I can’t exactly say they have an unfounded spoiler concern given the Series 10 debacle, but I do wish they would start advertising a little harder, that’s probably contributed to the ratings dip.
@@samuelbarber6177 definitely did for S12 as it launched in January of all places and with very very minimal promotion from what I recall But as for S13 I don’t think it got any promotional material yet cos they haven’t fully wrapped up filming yet. Outside of the Dan teaser and announcements of filming in November
@@samuelbarber6177 The marketing could have been so much better for Series 12. If it was up to me, I would air Spyfall Part 1 and 2 in January and save the remaining episodes for spring (March/April). Also, I would probably shelve Praxeus as it features a parasitic bacteria/virus, so it would not have been appropriate if it aired last Spring with the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic and everything.
If anyone wants to gain a deeper understanding of the shit TV crews have to put up with, look up a recent twitter thread by Doctor Who designer Matthew Clark (mr_clark) which goes over the poor communication and hours. Some don't even get reimbursed for food!
I always assumed the line about Barrowman from 'The Ballad of Russell and Julie' was a reference to the Radio 1 incident. (How I interpreted it isn't especially relevant to the conversation, I realise.)
Excuse me but he was goaded before and during the interview behind scenes the presenters admitted they wound him up to do it but, the broadcast was kept vanilla to get publicity. So barrowman was made to look the fool then he admitted to his mistakes even though he was influenced to it.
i Dont condone and never did find it fully acceptable but john barrowman is getting punished NOW for actions EVERYONE KNEW ABOUT THEN. in fact "doctor who" found his nakedness funny with at least two episodes that used this as a joke the trinny an sussannah robots episode especially would of opened this idea. Noel clark WASN'T REPORTED OR OPENLY DISCUSSED UNTIL RECENTLY. acting on actions that occured in the open years after an event just make you have very shaky morals if something is wrong it should be acted on or not, not left for many years leaving it open for others to follow the example then punished as if it suddenly is discovered.
Excellent video as always, and these are very much points I wanted to get across when discussing Time Fracture on Infinity. However I had to tap out as soon as Nerdrotic came on because that hateful shrew makes me bleed out of my mouth and ears whenever he speaks 😂
They should both be pull over the coals,cause barrowman thought he could get away with because he was a horses hoof,disgraceful and it's not a laugh with barrowman because he is so far up his own backside.
If BOTH of them get help and BOTH of them apologize, they should BOTH be allowed another chance. ONE more chance. If one of them does, then that one can get the second chance. If neither do, then neither get the chance. That being said... I have worked in situations where other women may have been uncomfortable. I was a naughty smart-ass, though, and gave as good as I got. HOWEVER, there were no dangly bits (or other bits) uncovered in any of that time. AND there were only naughty jokes and teasing going on, no predatory behavior. All this is to say that there could, indeed, be situations where something CLOSE to these happen, and no one gets bent out of shape or feels harassed. HOWEVER (I again qualify what I say), if ANYONE is uncomfortable with a situation, that situation needs to be shut DOWN, post haste! (I hope this is understandable, and doesn't freak anyone out.)
@@Butter-Milk There's an expression "to consign someone/thing to the dustbin of history", meaning some people/ideas are best thrown into obscurity and forgotten. It's a similar meaning we have here, I think.
Unfortunately, I don't think John Barrowman isn't going to change his bad behavior with the terrible apology he recently put on twitter that gave off the vibe of he was recovering from a broken toenail instead of apologizing for his sexual assault "gags" and indecent exposure "gags". What doesn't help his case is his husband tweeting that the backlash he got was from trolls. If he really was sorry then he would have actually made a good apology instead of trying to downplay the shit that got exposed about him.
So in other words, you don't want nerdrotic to be involved in the legal system in any capacity or responsible for safeguarding. I don't know if Nerdrotic was ever a genuine nerd fan but to be honest at this point I'm convinced he's just a full blown political propagandist.
I can field this one. I don't think I've seen a single Nerdrotic video that wasn't almost wall-to-wall lies and misinformation. And also, NR frequently platforms people like G+G who is adamant that black people should not direct/write movies and Nerdrotic has done videos with Bowlestrek who is an outright Neo-Nazi (as in, blames the Jews for everything wrong with the world, thinks black people shouldn't be in films etc). He's also done videos with Rabbi From Another Planet, a open white supremacist, homophobe who thinks women shouldn't be on TV and does streams talking about being sexually attracted to minors. So...yeah, NR associates with some terrible people.
a potential workaround for this could be that Jack has the ability to regenerate but is delayed this ability came from exposure from the time vortex like Melody Pond
I think there's an audiodrama where Spoilers In an alternate timeline: John Hart steals Jack's immortality. They could build from that and recast/reboot James Marsters as Jack or John from another universe, as some sort of bodyswap or fusion between the two characters.
honestly I'm in the same situation as you where the bbc are fucking you with copyright. I honestly didnt think they would be protective over a review of the TV movie 😭
It's insulting to assault, or rape victims to equate Barrowman's behavior which wasn't predatory, to be similar in result to Harvey Weinstein, or Noel Clarke, he apologized, corrected himself, and his actions were never physical or targeted, yes it can still be harassment or wrong but don't missappropriate these definitions, it's harmful and wrong.
I know this is a serious subject- simply put, you make them realize that their behaviour is a criminal act with consequences. however, if the story ever requires capt jack to appear he could be recast (#recasttchalla). he does end up as a giant ugly head after all, so make it a later in Jack's life with the face that becomes the face of Bo.
At this point John Barrowman needs to get in the bin along with Noel Clarke. Yeah Noel Clarke is more horrible but at least he ain't going on social media trying to downplay what got exposed about him like John Barrowman.
Okay... if those around (not just the higher-ups, but ALL those around you) know about and are okay with you exposing yourself... that's one thing. To me, it seems... questionable, at least... but if all are comfortable with it, fine. If not... then you need to get smacked down -- HARD. Sexual harassment is a serious matter, historically taken far too lightly by too many in power. Women reporting rape have all too often been derided, mocked, or had attorneys try to tear them apart on the stand (and anyone who thinks going through the sort of medical exam required in rape is in any way easy, comfortable, or not traumatic, is an idiot who knows absolutely NOTHING about it -- look up Evan Hunter's (Ed McBain's) 82nd precinct novel, "Lightning", which deals with a serial rapist, and goes into what a victim has to go through when reporting such -- Hunter tended to research his subjects pretty well, and things haven't got any less grueling on those reporting such than they were then) for anyone to take this lightly. If your humor runs in that direction, find yourself people who are okay with it... or practice restraint. This is a VERY emotionally-loaded area, and you damned well need to keep in mind just HOW upsetting such a thing can be... or prepare for full consequences of being charged with (and likely tried for) sexual harassment or assault. It really doesn't take that much effort to be aware and practice a little caution....
It pains me to say it but I think Barrowman shouldn't be rehabilitated for doctor who/Torchwood. He was warned in 2008 his behaviour was unacceptable yet continued to do so. If other companies want to hire him then that's fine but he shouldn't be allowed the chance to do doctor who as he was given a second chance and he blew it imo
"And I apologise but this is an article from the sun." - Best sentence ever.
I would ask why the show producers didn’t so more to protect the workers and address the issues with the actors…it shouldn’t have been tolerated and the industry is rife with this behaviour because actors aren’t tackled directly so their behaviour is not challenged…🤷🏻♂️
Nice to see you here
@@leonbell5141 because they don’t, it’s why Chris left in the first place, only now it’s blowing up in their faces
Couldn't help thinking about Christopher Eccleson leaving the show after season one, reporting that there were a number of things that he was unhappy about in the environment and culture. He worked with both Noel Clarke and John Barrowman.
Shows you Eccleston has integrity
Eccleston reportedly quit after the first episode, but still had to finish the season as part of his contract. I can't remember when Mickey appears in the first season, but Barrowman didn't arrive until towards the end. Either way, that timeline doesn't fit.
@@marsmartin My initial comment was from my immediate reaction, but I think the timeline probably does fit. If I remember rightly, Christopher Eccleson quit after the first episode was actually aired. A significant amount of the series would've been in the can by then. And the character of Mickey appeared in the very first episode. An actual quote from Ecclestone is 'I didn't enjoy the environment and the culture that we, the cast and the crew had to work in.' This would be a culture that was tolerant of the behaviours that Mister Tardis has described.
@@marsmartin The timeline could still fit with Noel Clarke if more women come forward.
@@shortangel333 Possibly!
Poor Camile is a national treasure. She was not just being humiliated, she was having to RE-LIVE the experience.
Definitely hope the film industry gets better safeguarding against these sexual harassments and abuse cases. I hope Barrowman can truly learn from his mistakes and understand how what he did was wildly inappropriate, he has a chance to improve and shouldn’t abuse his position as a high ranking actor
Don't tell this to his fanbase on Twitter. They basicly send you away with the comment: "He apologized in the past, shut up."
That makes me seriously worried about the fan community.
I hope people can get a sense of humor and stop taking shit so serious all the time Noel Clark was in the wrong if people can’t see that are community is dumb
The thing that gets me with all the attempts to exonerate barrowman is they all leave out the fact that nothing happens in a vacuum. At the end of that clip where Clarke says 'dont do that at your work, you'll get arrested' - that's him drawing attention to barrowman getting away with outrageous behaviour - the idea that outrageous behaviour is okay basically got accepted in that environment, so therefore behaviour like Clarke's would seem more innocuous than it actually was. People seem to be trying to rigidly separate the person we know we shouldn't like anymore (Clarke) from the person we want to still like (barrowman) when he was a part of an environment where someone like Clarke was apparently allowed to thrive
Hi Stuart
STOP BEIN SJW!!
Certainly your hatred of "white" men didn't happen in a vaccuum. If it had been a "black" woman who exposed herself for a stupid joke and even apologized for it over a decade ago, you wouldn't have cared.
From what little I’ve read I get the idea that the Noel situation was creepy, predatory and perverted whereas John Barrowman seems to be a quite sex positive guy who isn’t predatory or in any way threatening to his coworkers but took things unacceptably too far while having a ball on set. Maybe he needs some counseling with establishing appropriate boundaries that work for him and his coworkers but still allow him to have a comfortable, relaxed and open atmosphere on set.
Getting rid of predators and speaking out against predatory behavior isn't wokeness, it's basic human decency.
YESSS
No it’s Noel Clark being a dick and people supporting that
Extremely minor concern of course, but RIP the clips of David Tennant shaking his fist and shouting "Barrowman!" on Never Mind The Buzzcocks. It was fun while it lasted, but it turned out to be too honest.
it could be due to his jokes
@@amyclarke41 Well, his 'jokes' is what he is getting deleted for.
A surprising number of men think getting their bits out is hilarious. I'm sad Barrowman kept going after a reprimand. This has nothing to do with "Cancel Culture". It's about standards of behaviour in public life, Barrowman as a 'brand' and issues involving sexual equality in the workplace. Nerderotic seems to overlook actual evidence including Barrowman repeatedly admitted his behaviour.
You know if this was Jodie or Mandip instead, Gary would be demanding they get blacklisted and sent to jail.
I'd say he has a point about 'cancel culture' in general, we must remember that our society works on a bases of 'innocent until proven guilty', but he's completely and utterly wrong in this case. There seems to be enough evidence in this and the Noel Clarke case, to see they are true.
Why are you so upset about seeing a man's "bits"? If people looked at these men and yawned or laughed at them, they would stop pretty fast. Maybe you should get therapy about your issues regarding the human body. Museums exhibit sculpture of naked men and woman as art.
Do by all means go down to the local shopping mall and live by your ideals, Praxiteles.
I think that what Barrowman did was awful, but not as bad as Noel due his intent to be as a joke, not as in Noels case an actual act of Sexual Assault. And also the fact he did fully apologise for it and take full responsibility for his actions. Still, what he did was terrible and shouldn’t be overlooked.
Ditto.
I agree with you entirely, except where you say he took full responsibility for his actions. He said 'nobody complained' which doesn't exactly sound like taking responsibility...
@@bwmanhath3770 I think I mean more that he admitted to what he did unlike Noel who just denied the allegations or refused to comment
Indecent exposure is actually a crime. There is no difference between Barrowman and a dirty old man in overcoat!
It wasn't overlooked. Barrowman apologized for it over a decade ago. The Left just gets off on ruining people's lives.
23:15 Laughing my arse off at the 'No wonder Christopher Eccleston left the show after one season' comment on Nerdrotic's video. Boy, is Robbie the Pict gonna hate what Chris thinks about Friedrich Engels...
Eccleston said it was because of the management and the way workers were treated---not a stupid practical joke. He's got the same equipment, so why should he be so upset? Hasn't he ever been in a men's locker room before?
22:42 So, I'm going to be really direct here: to anyone who doesn't like Chibb's era and watches these guys, this is what you're okay with? This is who you want speaking for you, being YOUR voice? Guys who think systemic abuse in film and TV, something that causes real harm, is some kind of lefty soy conspiracy? This is what you stand for? You hate Jodie this much that you consider THIS a-okay?
Thank you. I happen to like each of these eras, but that has to be considered apart from this behavior. As for the current Doctor Who kerfluffle... sorry, folks, but having been a fan of the program since I discovered it around 1978-79... this whole thing just strikes me as completely nuts.....
Wasn’t Chibnall working on Torchwood during those eras too tho? I’m not sure it’s a clear separation
It’s totally fine to dislike any era of Doctor Who IMO. It’s all opinion at the end of the day. But actively just spreading hate like this is just really upsetting for people like me who just wants the Doctor who community to be a much nicer place. Also, I’m so tired of these channels just constantly popping up in my recommendations
@@amberhancock2039 Chibbers ran Torchwood for at least two seasons
@@adamburke4738 RTD was show runner for all Torchwood
Chib did write for it
It genuinely scares me that people like Nerdrotic seem to genuinely want a world where they can get away with sexual harrassment and abuse towards women. I don't know why the fuck else they would try to defend sexual abuse in the workplace.
He is a political propagandist, in another video he'd be calling drag queens 'groomers' for reading books to kids. He believes whatever is convenient to his political narrative in the moment. He and others like him are a hive mind, they don't care about being contradictory or what the consequences of their beliefs are, only that their audience has a cult-like devotion to the right political party and their leaders.
Nerdrotic behaviour towards anything Doctor Who recently is just terrible
By recently I mean in the past 3 years
@@MrCoolio1 And by Nerdrotic you mean him and all his friends?
@@EatinPaste yeah
@@MrCoolio1 Him and his type of Doctor Who "fans" make my blood run cold. They can't be ok mentally.
Honestly all i have to say about john is what the hell was he thinking? Who does something like that even with close mates thats not something that would come to mind to me atleast
Despite the unfortunate nature of this video, it really makes me thankful that you have taken the time to address this in a reasonable and calm manner. You are one of the three people I trust about News pertaining to the industry. And I am reassured that if you are willing to stand up for what is right, the TV/Film industry will be a better place with you as a contributor.
Oh gawd, why even MENTION Nerdrotic? Such a sad, tragic individual. I blocked all his content on YT over a year ago as I was sick of his bizarre rants disguised as "reviews" being recommended in my feed.
There is something fundamentally wrong about someone who measures their "masculinity" by the length of their beard and the amount of time they spend whining about "feminazis" and "wokeness".
Do they actually do that “masculinity” thing?
The only nazi's in Nerdrotic's videos are him and his friends lmao. Minus the lmao since nazis aren't really funny and more pathetic.
@@shortangel333 You are doubt one of the most horrible people I no
And I am glad I do not no you
Comparing other people and there honest opinions to Nazis makes you a dispicable person
Having been to one of the Concentration Camps where people who did not fit the Nazi narrative where put to death I would with it on no one, not even you
Give your head a wobble and go and join the rest of the human race and be productive
Do you ever wonder where creators like Nerdrotic draw the line? Like it seems like being a SA apologist, openly racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic and transphobic are all on the table; how fucked up would something have to be for NMDs to actually go “nah that’s a bit far”.
Some of them did when rabbifromanotherplanet shat on Deborah Watling's memory, but even that seems to have been a fart in the breeze for them.
Council of Geeks did a good video on this, technically two (but the latter was about how ‘no one complaining doesn’t make it okay’ which I agree with).
He also went over the fact that someone DID complain. It's just that it's the talent that isn't complaining, who ostensibly have more power than the people behind the scenes.
@@carnuatus hey it's very likely an honest mistake but CoG uses she/they pronouns, just to let you know
CoG makes an excellent point
@@nico2605 And what's wrong with using those pronouns?
@@timrosswood4259 you mean he/him? Those just aren't the pronouns they use so it's simply inaccurate and also disrespectful if done purposefully
I love how one of the main excuses is "Oh it was so long ago" ya know like Barrowman was some naive young lad fresh out of a pub on Friday night, the guy was THIRTY SEVEN years old when Series 1 was being filmed!!! He knew exactly what he was doing! He should know the difference between right and wrong, I don't wanna hear otherwise, indecent exposure is indecent exposure, end of!
What I hate most about Nerdrotic and the quatering is that some viewers believe the lies even though they dont realise they are sexist bigots.
Reposting the comment I left on Council of Geek's video on this issue:
"Regarding the stuff about Barrowman, having been in drama and actor circles myself, I know the kind of atmosphere that can develop when enough cast and crew get comfortable with another, it can result in stupid things happening, with bystanders drafted along for the ride. If I were to describe it further, I'd say it's like getting 'drink off the atmosphere', it's not an excuse but does give context to the intent of those in the industry when these incidents occur."
Yes, context!
Yeah, Barrowman's probably headed down the same road as Noel Clarke, with his removal from Time Fracture and Big Finish backing away from a Torchwood audio reunion.
Safe to assume that he's probably not going to be returning in Series 13.
@GamingWithChu Yeah. Well, like Mr. Tardis said, there is some room for John Barrowman to be able to bounce back from it. Noel Clarke is set in stone, but John still has a small chance
Haven't they been shooting Series 13 since before christmas? If he WAS supposed to be in it, there might still be time to rewrite stuff. But if there's like 1 Jack episode in it and they've already done it, I wouldn't count on them being able to replace all of it easily.
Of course, we don't know whether he was ever meant to return in S13 to begin with, so they may well only have to consider future plans.
Or....it could be a similar James Gunn situation
@@rowanc88 I dunno, sexual harassment in the workplace and whatever it was James Gunn said on Twitter make these different situations.
Pretty sure he only got rehired after Dave Bautista threatened to drop out after Endgame.
@@dawritersroom01 Both cases that people already knew about and for which the person has apologised.
It'll be interesting seeing what does happen with Absent Friends (maybe it will just collect dust in the cupboard with that Tom Baker and James Dreyfus Master story). Hopefully Barrowman redeems himself for the sake of his career and his fans. It would just be nice if we could go one week in the community without someone being a predator. It's the easiest thing in the world to avoid doing and people still do it.
My heart goes out to all of the people hurt by the likes of Noel and John, as well as the handful of fans who have similarly been outed in recent weeks. We can't continue to let this behaviour stand.
I've read a lot of comments on Reddit forums about a supposed Fourth Doctor and Dreyfus Master story, but are there any concrete sources on it? Besides, I'd imagine, given that the Fourth Doctor audios are recorded years in advance, that story, if it does actually exist, will get released at some point. I'll wholly admit I'm curious about Dreyfus' Master and would be happy to see this story release (again if it is real), even though Dreyfus is transphobic.
Same goes for Absent Friends. If Big Finish don't want to release it now, given all of Barrowman's negative publicity, that's fair. But a performed story that reunites Jack Harkness with the Tenth Doctor would be a terrible shame to axe completely. I really hope at some point it does get released.
@@radioactivecheesenowinnucl4746 I did see a clip from an interview with Dreyfus saying he had recorded it and I believe it was mentioned in an interview when Destination Wars came out.
But you could be right, seeing as they've got stuff recorded until about 2024 or something like that, it could just be scheduled for later down the line, if Big Finish are still planning on doing it that is.
In the grand scope of things transphobia is still less serious than sexual assault crimes so I’d imagine they’d still release those
Bro, it's been so long since I even thought about that audio play. Still upset that it didn't get released
Really good look at the whole thing. I think it is important to separate this from Noel Clarke but that’s not to diminish what John has done. Genuinely surprised this wasn’t addressed sooner as it was certainly very open knowledge at the cons I’ve been to. I hope John can address what he’s done and make amends and get the opportunity to rebuild, but it’s absolutely in his court to do that. If nothing else this will hopefully have a widespread impact on all production to stop this behaviour.
A friend worked in a theatre as a set decorator and props man. He left that job because of sexual pestering by another more senior member of staff. The theatre wasn't interested in his complaints so he left that job. This was back in the 1980s.
When I see how many people say online that they have been sexually harrassed, I'm shocked. People, this is not a normal thing and it should never treated as such.
@@timrob12 But back then it was sadly. It takes time and a whole generation to die out to be free of it, and even then I'm sure knowing human nature it won't be completely wiped out.
@@Silver-rx1mh I remember someone on Instagram saying: "We should talk about it like it's something normal" and I was like, no, we shouldn't.
My opinion for the first time was Julie Gardner confronted Barrowman and he apologized for it, so it's should be fine. But apparently he's still doing it in the set for Miracle Day. That's practically nullified that apology.
Just like some (most?) fans, I do want to listen to Tenth and Captain Jack's reunion story. But if it ended up not being released, I'm fine. The series, the fandom, the whole f***in world won't crumble down just because one audio story doesn't got released. There is more Torchwood audio stories and Tenth Doctor's audio stories out there - probably even better.
I wonder if this is why Eccleston quit.
I wonder if this Barrowman incident was kept under wraps for a long time until Clarke flapped his gums about it to deflect and distract what was being said about him. Barrowman has reputation and now it proceeds him but Clarke had no right bringing it up in the first place stirring up the pot and damaged John's career. I agree John should lay low for a while and then comment when the time is right not now
John's behaviour was never a secret and was spoken about openly by himself and others in interviews and at panels since 2005. The video of Noel discussing it was from almost 10 years ago. It wasn't an attempt at deflection. I think the information has gotten very confused. I've seen lots of people say that over the past few weeks.
@@somerandomguy2073 Indeed. I can remember some early panels where JB's "pranks" were brought up, sometimes by JB himself.
You clearly didn’t pay attention. Clarke never brought it up to distract from what was being said about him. The clip from the Boom Town panel resurfaced and that’s what put Barrowman under the spotlight for his behaviour.
Well, this makes me feel ill, since Noel Clarke was in my highschool during the filming of School Reunion (2006).
Accountability>Entertainment
Agree with everything said here. I hope Barrowman grows and could come back but the safety and happiness of everyone MUST come first.
Also didn't know about Nerdrotic video, that just makes me sick!
Nerdrotic is an utterly horrible person, him and his gang.
Sadly, he used to be quite good, unfortunately when series 12 came around his quality just dropped off a cliff and I stopped watching him
barrowman is currently seeking professional help with help from his family. He seems genuinely sorry for how he acted back then
Nerdrotic is easily one of the most loathsome RUclipsrs I can think of, his channel breeds toxicity. He makes terrible content that clearly comes from a very angry place, it's hard to believe he's even a Doctor Who fan at all
He isnt a fan. He was probably a general viewer who gets views from other hateful gremlins like him
He isn't
The guy is so anti-woke that he thinks everything wrong with media is "politics". Think we can all agree that whatever perceived politics in S11/12 of Doctor Who being removed isn't going to make to better.
This is the same guy that thinks Star Trek was not political/progressive in the past too. Imagine that, a show that is praised for having the first interracial kiss on TV and a black captain.
The same person who got mad at an episode of the Mandalorian because a female Mandalorian was strong. His take was so bad, the comments actually pointed it out that it makes sense for mandalorians of all genders to be strong and capable.
@@themonado5030 He's an unscrupulous hack who gets easy views, subs and likes by preaching to the "anti-woke" choir. It's not just about Doctor Who; he'll happily slag off any show/movie that doesn't conform to his and his flock's regressive worldview.
Dont forget bowlestrek
14:55 They weren't saying that the character is more important than people's safety. They were just saying that Absent Friends should be released.
Spot on mate, well done for speaking about this in an appropriate & mature manner. I have alot of respect for you mate
Joke (even tho it’s not exactly hilarious) or not, play stupid games and win stupid prizes.
You are so well spoken. A pleasure to listen to.
Tbh I’m with John Barrowman. Like he’s just being light-hearted and he isn’t hurting anyone with these jokes or his sense of humour, at the most he’s making people feel uncomfortable. Sure, that isn’t ideal, but I mean you play that risk when you make these types jokes. For me personally, if I was on set with John barrowman and he whipped out his meat and veg, I would be in bits; I’d find it hilarious. I can understand people not getting the sense of humour, but this isn’t as serious as Noel Clarke actually being predatory. I also think the intent should be looked at with more importance. Like sure, his sense of humour is different, but does that make him a bad person?
MrT isn't saying it's the same as Clarke, but there is, undeniably, a power imbalance here in what Barrowman has been getting away with. Fine if you're not bothered, but then, you're not working with the guy in a high-pressure environment like TV.
How do you know he did this for a joke . Does he get a pass because he’s gay ?
I certainly wouldn't have gotten upset. I would have laughed at him, and told him I have seen better. What makes him think anyone wants to see it?
Gary (for that is Nerdrotic's name) is nothing more than an outrage merchant (like most of the Fan-dumb Menace) and based on his appearance and views (if he really believes them and isn't just grifting), he wouldn't look out of place in the presence of the Proud Boys (is it any wonder Gary's wife left him?). And surprise surprise, the biggest Nazi of all the fan-dumb Jeremy of Geeks + Gamers is in that vid with Gary too.
He's a well know 'hate for pay' channel that need kicking into the long grass imo. A totally loathsome man.
Well did look like he was hosting a few people with the blue stripe US flag so that’s muddies the waters a little
Geeks & Gamers here today were talking (for the 1000th time) about how THE LIBRULS AND SJWS AND THE TRANGENDER COMMIES ARE DESTROYING STAR WARS AND THE WEST AND REEEE BRIE LARSONNNNN
"critics" like nerdotic, heels baby, bowlstrek g
Caught me when they few points I agreed with. Then I notice them tripping over themselves, spreading racist, sexist and homophobic remarks.
Noel Clark should go to prison for what's he done in my opinion.
Gotta love that warning, “don’t show your junk, it’ll be bad for your career” not “it’s assault” not “no one wants to see that (or have that ON THEIR SHOULDER)” only thinking of his job, people are gross
I hope Barrowman returns from this.
What’s sad about the situation is that all of this is happening at once which means the community doesn’t really get the ability to focus on one thing properly. Right now we’re dealing with people in the community from seemingly all rangers who have been exposed for being predators.
John Barrowman - Exposed
Noel Clarke - Exposed
Tony Coburn - Exposed WhoTuber/Cosplayer who has been trying to solicit minors.
RedHeadedChinny/Vlogzy - WhoTuber/cosplayer recently exposed for coercing women into situations against their consent.
Hopefully all these toxic people can be held accountable properly since the last thing Doctor Who needs is people like this being a part of it, especially for a fandom that so heavily includes Children as it’s core audience
Totally agree with what you said in both of these videos
I agree with you about John, whom I really like. Noel Clarke is another matter, but I still think the allegations need to be tested in a law court. I am ver uncomfortable with anyone’s career being ended. because of untested allegations, no matter who they are.
I mean that's fair enough, but I think it's a stretch to say that 20 allegations don't mean something. After all, if there's smoke...
@@SavageBroadcast l think the allegations do mean something, all I mean is that there should be an investigation, in order to properly know what happened.
I am sad that we won’t get to see the character of Capt Jack in Time Fracture and Absent Friends being delayed release, but I’m glad Barrowman and especially Noel Clarke are getting reprimanded for their actions.
If you want to talk about something else, Time Fracture just had it's first preformance in costume and in front of an audience.
There's something continuity-related that has been going through my mind.
Steven Moffat introduced both Jack Harkness and River Song, but never brought Jack back during his time as show-runner. I'm not sure if it's true that he wanted Jack in "A Good Man Goes To War" and for Jack to be decapitated by the Headless Monks, so becoming the Face of Boe. If so, then this would have ended Jack as we know him, and make it unlikely that Barrowman could ever return.
Steven Moffat was also responsible for the cracks-in-time arc, which enabled whole adventures of the RTD era to be removed. For example, in "Victory of the Daleks" we learn that the events of "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" have been removed (Amy can't remember the Dalek invasion). And that is the adventure in which Mickey returned to our universe.
So, it looks like Steven Moffat set up an in-show way of ensuring that Mickey could not appear again.
Sounds a bit convoluted to me. Given what Chibnall's done in the last series I doubt any writer would seriously interpret Moffat's writing as an attempt to stop Mickey coming back ever.
I don't think there was any chance of Mickey coming back anyway. They seemed pretty finished with him and the majority of companions in that era by End of Time
It's possible I guess, Chibnall brought him back, so it's difficult to know for sure
Afaik, Moffat wanted Captain Jack to be part of the team in the Demon's Run, but Barrowman was busy filming Miracle Day. Idk anything about Moffat wanted the scene where Captain Jack is decapitated though.
I am kinda surprised Torchwood is still on BBC IPlayer. Seeing that Big Finish pulled Absent Friend from its release.
Probably because that would be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. People can choose not to watch something on iPlayer. To offer another hoary old saw, BF are obeying the most important rule of crisis management: stop digging. They have to protect their investment from someone who has become a liability.
I always thought Christopher Eccleston was being a grumpy sod and even possibly a little homophobic when he would talk ill about working with John Barrowman... but I kind of understand where he's coming from now...
Guessing a Ninth Doctor Big Finish review is coming
I find it difficult that a fan of dr who would not have known that JB regularly used to whip it out. Admittedly I did not know it amounted to more than showing it to people he knew
To anyone saying that the cast treated it like a joke so its fine, watch bojack horseman
Part of me wonder how Nerdrotic would react if he saw you’re reaction and thoughts on his videos. Would he actually be stupid enough to upload a vid to why your views are wrong (which of course they aren’t. You’re clearly better than him)? It won’t surprise if he doesn’t have any shame to do so.
Nerdeotic’s ilk are usually that petty and have easily bruised egos
Thank you so much for this video. There have been so many people prioritising the wrong things regarding this situation and it is so great to hear someone articulate everything that I have been trying to say. I really applaud you for this level headed discussion and you are right that people such as Time Fracture and Big Finish are completely right to cancel their projects regarding JB.
The only thing that I think may have been mishandled is that ITV cancelled Barrowman’s show Dancing On Ice. While I completely think it is massively justified and right to remove Barrowman from the project I find it unfair on the cast, crew and fans of that show to have it pulled as people undoubtedly put loads of effort into the show and I don’t find it fair that they should lose their jobs based on one persons actions. They were justified in removing him but in my opinion I think they should have recast.
Edit: Apologies. I was unaware that the show has not in fact been cancelled but is being urged to by people in the industry. My argument still stands that I think recasting Barrowman should be done instead of cancelling it but I apologise for my misrepresenting of the situation.
I think this situation should be compared to serial pick-pocket and someone who’s defrauded many innocents of thousands. I mean yeah, both are awful and should be punished but punishment should be proportional to the crime, that’s all I’m saying.
I would be very interested in what Christopher Eccleston has to say given these revelations. Given it was reportedly over issues of production’s treatment of production staff he left, I wouldn’t be shocked if Noel and John were part of the reason nine left.
Considering “Doctor Who” is historically filmed out of airing order (meaning they probably would have filmed episodes more extensively featuring Barrowman and Clarke earlier on, since they both feature extensively in the finale), I would almost 110% guarantee Eccleston knew about it, raised it to RTD, and quit when RTD didn’t take it seriously. Agyeman also reported it to RTD, and quit the show when he laughed it off instead of doing anything (which is why Martha is a one season companion).
We already know the BBC had Eccleston “blacklisted” to prevent him talking about/being believed about what happened behind the scenes. Kinda makes you wonder what he knew that they didn’t want out there.
@@MrMarsFargo The BBC has a history of protecting abusers, Jimmy Saville and Russell Brand being more examples. They really should learn from their past rather than sticking to this cover up narrative.
@@MrMarsFargo So if Agyeman really had such an issue, why would she work on Torchwood for two episodes after Doctor Who? Bare in mind, you've made this claim so back it up.
Intent is important, as you say. The law requires evidence of an intent to cause distress. Ergo, someone would need to make a complaint about Barrowman. If anyone who was there feels Barrowman was intending to intimidate, threaten or sexually harass them, they should report it (there is no limitation on time). It's more telling that, after weeks of this, no one has come forward, despite him trending repeatedly.
Barrowman has a juvenile sense of humour and a weird obsession with the shock value of flashing his bits. It's a classic attention seeking thing. Weird, sure, but we can't ignore the fact that cultural response to this has changed a lot in recent years. We wouldn't have Carry On movies or Allo Allo made today for example. Likewise, I'm far more concerned about predatory behaviour right now than historic pranks, which someone has apologised for repeatedly. Apologies have to count or what's the point in anyone ever changing?
But how much do apologies count if you keep doing it? The reason people aren't going with 'but he said sorry before' is Barrowman kept on whipping out his ding-a-ling-long-lang after. So much so it's a running gag among fans.
@@SavageBroadcast If anyone ever asked him to apologise, he apologised. If he did it later no one said anything, or asked for it, what are you expecting here? It's a running gag because he's far from the only person who finds bits and bobs funny. I just don't know what people are expecting to happen here.
And here's the sad thing - Nedro/Gary could totally use his platform and fanbase to combat misconduct in film and TV, give a voice to those who actually need it and have somewhere to help raise awareness of actual problems in film and TV (not the 'muh feminizum' boogeyman), but that would require effort, integrity and respect for other human beings, rather than pawns in your stupid culture war.
Also it wouldn't make him as much money, and he ain't gonna bite the hand that feeds him.
He's just a greedy and heartless individual. Him and those other clones.
@@shadow-scope-fsm7165 After all, Kathleen Kennedy is the real evil producer in Hollywood. Scott Rudin, a power-tripping maniac who smashes computers on his assistants' hands? He doesn't make geeky shit, so he's not worthy of livestreams.
I hate Nerdrotic.
I really expected a Doctor Who teaser during the FA cup final for the same reason you say at the start of this video. Honestly suprised we haven't got one yet
The current production team seems to keep its cards close to its chest on marketing. I can’t exactly say they have an unfounded spoiler concern given the Series 10 debacle, but I do wish they would start advertising a little harder, that’s probably contributed to the ratings dip.
@@samuelbarber6177 definitely did for S12 as it launched in January of all places and with very very minimal promotion from what I recall
But as for S13 I don’t think it got any promotional material yet cos they haven’t fully wrapped up filming yet. Outside of the Dan teaser and announcements of filming in November
@@KillerMeme yeah, for Series 12 we got like one trailer.
@@samuelbarber6177 The marketing could have been so much better for Series 12. If it was up to me, I would air Spyfall Part 1 and 2 in January and save the remaining episodes for spring (March/April). Also, I would probably shelve Praxeus as it features a parasitic bacteria/virus, so it would not have been appropriate if it aired last Spring with the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic and everything.
Every job I have had, says "... No dating co-workers...". Report inappropriate comments made towards you.
If anyone wants to gain a deeper understanding of the shit TV crews have to put up with, look up a recent twitter thread by Doctor Who designer Matthew Clark (mr_clark) which goes over the poor communication and hours. Some don't even get reimbursed for food!
Once Nerdrtic aligned with the quarterling they were only going to drop deeper down the well of shit.
Doubt Barrowman will be in season 13 however I hope revolution of the Daleks isn’t his last appearance. It wasn’t a proper ending for his character.
can you critic on all of the fandom menace.
I always assumed the line about Barrowman from 'The Ballad of Russell and Julie' was a reference to the Radio 1 incident.
(How I interpreted it isn't especially relevant to the conversation, I realise.)
The famous NASA unicorn cannon is in pretty hot demand. I dunno if you'll be able to get any instrument time on it.
is it bad that I didnt really care about the absent friends release so I just don't get that people have to be so upset about it.
I've never heard the term Cancel Culture used except in defence of powerful people suffering consequences for their actions.
Its such a shame cause all this taints those older episodes, there’s always been a problem at BBC with this stuff but nothing is ever gonna change
Excuse me but he was goaded before and during the interview behind scenes the presenters admitted they wound him up to do it but, the broadcast was kept vanilla to get publicity. So barrowman was made to look the fool then he admitted to his mistakes even though he was influenced to it.
i Dont condone and never did find it fully acceptable but john barrowman is getting punished NOW for actions EVERYONE KNEW ABOUT THEN. in fact "doctor who" found his nakedness funny with at least two episodes that used this as a joke the trinny an sussannah robots episode especially would of opened this idea. Noel clark WASN'T REPORTED OR OPENLY DISCUSSED UNTIL RECENTLY. acting on actions that occured in the open years after an event just make you have very shaky morals if something is wrong it should be acted on or not, not left for many years leaving it open for others to follow the example then punished as if it suddenly is discovered.
I watched a few nerdrotic videos before I realized what he was all about. I've personally canceled him from my recommendations.
Excellent video as always, and these are very much points I wanted to get across when discussing Time Fracture on Infinity. However I had to tap out as soon as Nerdrotic came on because that hateful shrew makes me bleed out of my mouth and ears whenever he speaks 😂
He’s bigoted as hell
They should both be pull over the coals,cause barrowman thought he could get away with because he was a horses hoof,disgraceful and it's not a laugh with barrowman because he is so far up his own backside.
Forget the bin, we need a fucking skip for Nerdrotic, bowlestrek, and the rest of those Fandom Menace chuds.
A skip would be good, but a giant toilet would seem more fitting.
@@ftumschk Touché.
If BOTH of them get help and BOTH of them apologize, they should BOTH be allowed another chance. ONE more chance. If one of them does, then that one can get the second chance. If neither do, then neither get the chance.
That being said... I have worked in situations where other women may have been uncomfortable. I was a naughty smart-ass, though, and gave as good as I got. HOWEVER, there were no dangly bits (or other bits) uncovered in any of that time. AND there were only naughty jokes and teasing going on, no predatory behavior.
All this is to say that there could, indeed, be situations where something CLOSE to these happen, and no one gets bent out of shape or feels harassed. HOWEVER (I again qualify what I say), if ANYONE is uncomfortable with a situation, that situation needs to be shut DOWN, post haste!
(I hope this is understandable, and doesn't freak anyone out.)
What do you mean "get in the bin?"
I'm assuming prision.
@@Butter-Milk not sure how you came away with that reading.
@@SavageBroadcast Yeah, you're right. That's a stupid reasoning, maybe just in the unemployment bin.
@@Butter-Milk There's an expression "to consign someone/thing to the dustbin of history", meaning some people/ideas are best thrown into obscurity and forgotten. It's a similar meaning we have here, I think.
Don’t feed Fash like Nerdrotic and DoomCock
Or Mr Heitch
But on a more serious note, I agree with every word you say.
Unfortunately, I don't think John Barrowman isn't going to change his bad behavior with the terrible apology he recently put on twitter that gave off the vibe of he was recovering from a broken toenail instead of apologizing for his sexual assault "gags" and indecent exposure "gags". What doesn't help his case is his husband tweeting that the backlash he got was from trolls. If he really was sorry then he would have actually made a good apology instead of trying to downplay the shit that got exposed about him.
Thx MrTardis, you help put things in perspective,
19:05 I have seen that fucking video and it's really nice seeing you ripping it to shreds
So in other words, you don't want nerdrotic to be involved in the legal system in any capacity or responsible for safeguarding. I don't know if Nerdrotic was ever a genuine nerd fan but to be honest at this point I'm convinced he's just a full blown political propagandist.
Can someone explain at 19:21 why he said that about Nerdrotic?
I can field this one.
I don't think I've seen a single Nerdrotic video that wasn't almost wall-to-wall lies and misinformation.
And also, NR frequently platforms people like G+G who is adamant that black people should not direct/write movies and Nerdrotic has done videos with Bowlestrek who is an outright Neo-Nazi (as in, blames the Jews for everything wrong with the world, thinks black people shouldn't be in films etc). He's also done videos with Rabbi From Another Planet, a open white supremacist, homophobe who thinks women shouldn't be on TV and does streams talking about being sexually attracted to minors.
So...yeah, NR associates with some terrible people.
@@MrTARDIS oh, thanks for the information
Very very well made and discussed video
a potential workaround for this could be that Jack has the ability to regenerate but is delayed this ability came from exposure from the time vortex like Melody Pond
I think there's an audiodrama where Spoilers
In an alternate timeline:
John Hart steals Jack's immortality.
They could build from that and recast/reboot James Marsters as Jack or John from another universe, as some sort of bodyswap or fusion between the two characters.
honestly I'm in the same situation as you where the bbc are fucking you with copyright. I honestly didnt think they would be protective over a review of the TV movie 😭
It's insulting to assault, or rape victims to equate Barrowman's behavior which wasn't predatory, to be similar in result to Harvey Weinstein, or Noel Clarke, he apologized, corrected himself, and his actions were never physical or targeted, yes it can still be harassment or wrong but don't missappropriate these definitions, it's harmful and wrong.
That's why I went out of my way multiple times, in this video and in other videos, to differentiate between them.
Can you talk about mechas beef with midnight's Edge.
What's this? Never heard about this
Nerdroitc is a right weapon… he’s needs to give his head a shake
I know this is a serious subject- simply put, you make them realize that their behaviour is a criminal act with consequences. however, if the story ever requires capt jack to appear he could be recast (#recasttchalla). he does end up as a giant ugly head after all, so make it a later in Jack's life with the face that becomes the face of Bo.
We're gonna need a bigger bin
At this point John Barrowman needs to get in the bin along with Noel Clarke. Yeah Noel Clarke is more horrible but at least he ain't going on social media trying to downplay what got exposed about him like John Barrowman.
Is it time to create an overaggressive hatedom yet
Good video, mate. Very glad to see you showing the trash that Nerdrotic is.
Okay... if those around (not just the higher-ups, but ALL those around you) know about and are okay with you exposing yourself... that's one thing. To me, it seems... questionable, at least... but if all are comfortable with it, fine. If not... then you need to get smacked down -- HARD. Sexual harassment is a serious matter, historically taken far too lightly by too many in power. Women reporting rape have all too often been derided, mocked, or had attorneys try to tear them apart on the stand (and anyone who thinks going through the sort of medical exam required in rape is in any way easy, comfortable, or not traumatic, is an idiot who knows absolutely NOTHING about it -- look up Evan Hunter's (Ed McBain's) 82nd precinct novel, "Lightning", which deals with a serial rapist, and goes into what a victim has to go through when reporting such -- Hunter tended to research his subjects pretty well, and things haven't got any less grueling on those reporting such than they were then) for anyone to take this lightly. If your humor runs in that direction, find yourself people who are okay with it... or practice restraint. This is a VERY emotionally-loaded area, and you damned well need to keep in mind just HOW upsetting such a thing can be... or prepare for full consequences of being charged with (and likely tried for) sexual harassment or assault. It really doesn't take that much effort to be aware and practice a little caution....
Very succinctly put. It still baffles me that some people don’t understand the outrage.
It pains me to say it but I think Barrowman shouldn't be rehabilitated for doctor who/Torchwood. He was warned in 2008 his behaviour was unacceptable yet continued to do so. If other companies want to hire him then that's fine but he shouldn't be allowed the chance to do doctor who as he was given a second chance and he blew it imo
Torchwood is Barrowman