Freema deserved so much better. It always bothers me even how many people talk about Martha being “useless” and other stuff, when she really wasn’t. Everyone’s allowed their preferences, but the fans can get so harsh and it’s appalling.
Martha was definitely one of the Doctor's smartest (newWho) companions, able to keep up with the Doctor on multiple levels. Although, I don't think she was as good a friend as Donna, who would challenge the Doctor and hold his feet to the fire more often.
Her story was boring compared to Rose i blame the fukn writers. And then her name comes up third now cuz this random redhead joins the show & the show give most of the lines to her, it's so uncomfortable to watch.
Martha is amazing! She struggled so much more than most companions, having to deal with the Doctor being an asshole a lot of the time and then fending for herself in an apocalypse for a year, and she ended up saving the universe! I love Rose and Donna but I also love Martha, she's criminally underrated imo.
Same. Especially in the family of blood 2 parter. Part of the reason that’s my favorite episode from series 3 if not the entire new who is cuz of Martha watching over the doctor while he’s human and not putting up with his shit.
It was honestly quite traumatizing to witness as a young black fan (I was 8), I had only discovered DW recently and I absolutely loved it, but going online to try and find the community around it was one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made. Walls of hateful rants about Martha everywhere I went, I tried very hard to make sense of it but it was (obviously) an impossible task.
So sorry, that's the problem now, you have to find a particular corner of the fanbase to feel accepted, can't just be yourself :( I hope you found your tribe eventually and people who also appreciate what you do but don't make you feel bad for being who you are.
That's a real shame to hear that Freema got racist abuse, and it seems like even now it obviously still seems to upset her. Hopefully she knows and understands how much she is loved by a lot of fans, myself included.
I feel like racism and homophobia is slowly contributing to my doctor who burnout, I really wish these people could get their act together and stop being so horrible and get educated.
It sometimes makes me embarrassed to be a part of this community. We can disagree, but first you have to acknowledge reality and seriously question how you can be a fan of the show but also be a racist, misogynist, Homophobe or whatever else.
For me, it was writing it’s already been establish that time lords can change Sex i’m OK with that. I’m at peace with that. My problem is that the first female doctor deserves better writing. But no, now it’s brought out the worst in the phantom cousin, everyone to lose interest.
It doesn't really have anything to do with Doctor Who, and certainly nothing to do with real 'fandom'. Racists are everywhere, I don't think people who watch Doctor Who have a higher percentage of being racist than fans of other TV shows. But if the Doctor Who community wanted to be positive about it, then it can make a concerted effort to push this shit out, and be vocal they're not welcome and don't represent the rest of us. Also Jesus, what time machine is she using? Martha could clearly come back and not have aged a day.
I loved Freema Agyeman in Doctor Who. Martha Jones is still one of my favorite companions even though she made only 1 season, I loved all her crossovers guest-appearances in Doctor Who & Torchwood. She was great in Sense8 too. I always love to see her in tv series and I'm very glad she's doing well. I know it must be thanks to her participation in Doctor Who.
I mean it didn’t help when the black companions *in show* to that point were treated like crap by the leads. Mickey from the jump is “Mickey the idiot” and is pretty much treated like such until he’s finally dumped off in the parallel universe. Martha is treated 2nd best by the Doctor for a series, while constantly pining for Rose and they really didn’t expect that wouldn’t add fuel to the fire?
Do you think the Mickey character was treated like an idiot because he was black, or because he was... A bit of an idiot? Were his character traits decided and written before the production team chose the actor who was playing the part? Anyway, in the later episodes his character had developed substantially from the bumbling kid into something completely different...
I’m not sure about the mickey one as rory had a similar character arc, being the kind of “stupid” boyfriends and turning into more of a strong character.
Thankfully when they next had a companion have an on-Earth black boyfriend the doctor treated him very well oh wait no the Doctor is extremely hostile towards Danny and specifically has a hard time believing Danny is smart enough to teach maths
I remember seeing an article from the start of Series 10, that said that Bill was the first non-white companion. I couldn't believe that people were forgetting Martha already. Oh, and I saw No Time to Die. Lashana Lynch was brilliant. So was the film. The internet is just full of easily-angered racists.
Yeah. Motherfuckers wanna act like she degraded and humiliated Bond and announced herself as him when all she was (something else that news theories have held for quite a while now but I'm not gonna say it in case of spoiling it for other people. Even if it might not be that major of a spoiler.)
There have been people outraged over that film. Why? Because it had a prominent black female character, and in ONE line Q says he has a date coming over, using the pronoun ‘he’. That’s all.
Hold up. Now, I know in hindsight he can just get in the bin, but Noel Clark was technically thhe first black companion right? He travelled with the Doctor in series 2, he was a companion
He did technically travel in the TARDIS for 2 stories, but I think the "Companion" label doesn't count him. Kinda like how Jackie Tyler and Wilfred Mott did technically travel with the Doctor but don't count as "companions".
@@MrTARDIS Mickey's whole arc was also about him being the tin dog of the 9th/10th Doctor TARDIS team, and he grew the most as a character when he stepped away from The Doctor and Rose, the Cyberman two-parter illustrates this quite clearly and is very much the impetus for his departure. His relationship with Rose has essentially run its course by the time he steps onboard the TARDIS, because he turned down the Doctor's offer at the end of Aliens of London. He decides to follow Rose a season too late, realises he doesn't really fit in, and then leaves early when he finds a new purpose fighting against the Cybermen. I always saw him as a companion of Rose rather than the Doctor.
I really appreciate watching this type of discussion happening, especially it not being incited a black voice. By the way you did a great job. It's really strange being a black Sci-fi fan because algorithms often send me white supremacist content (I swear the more doctor who videos I watch the more they recommend me Ben Shapiro videos) Anyway thanks for the positivity.
Will, that you use your combination of being a strong fan, having experience in the industry and a sizeable viewership/following and frequently address these issues and call them out makes me proud to have been subscribed to you for the past 11 years. You're a true champ and a Chad. P.S. It's OK if you can't handle spice. I'm Asian and I've found that my spice tolerance has decreased a little over the years! Not sure how that happened but whatever. You're still a champ!
Thanks for continuing to address matters such as this in regards to the fandom. As bad as the people who push racist agendas are, I think that those who disregard it entirely (due to it being too unpleasant to talk about, or would just like to pretend that it isn't as bad as people think) can be just as damaging as indifference is another factor that allows ideas like this to thrive.
Great analysis, thank you, and all respect to Freema. I'm so fed up of fandom bigotry, I almost wish I were still shocked by it, instead of just feeling so, so tired.
Can I just say with the increasingly fast slide into horror that the UK is taking, how amazing and vital it is to have youtubers in this fandom like you and Council of geeks talk about issues like this and push back against this culture of cruelty and wilfull ignorance we find ourselves in.
Just recently found your channel, I hadn’t been watching any doctor who content for a while, but the RTD news boosted it back into my algorithm. I’m glad I’m getting people like you and jay exci, and not the boweltreks of the world, because that’s all it was giving me back in the day and the toxicity literally contributed to putting me in the hospital, they just take in people who already hate themselves to some extent, and make them scared of the world
The fanbase (whether or not you can call these people "fans"... or even "people") and the BBC's odd and damaging ways of marketing this series has just completely slowed my interest in this series. I should be excited but I feel nothing.
I adored Freema Agyeman from day one. I still love her in New Amsterdam. My favorite companion and one of my favorite actors. Sadly, there will always be racists and idiots in the world.
I seriously don’t understand how you can be a fan of Doctor Who and also be racist. This show’s primary villain species (arguably the very reason it still exists) are a thinly-veiled Nazi allegory and the show quite frequently attacks prejudice, even in its golden years when it supposedly wasn’t “PC”.
@@colonyofrats4193 I think it's because before it was at least more subtle about it, and with cases like Martha, the characters were more than just the first black companion (actually second if you briefly count Mickey, I think). They had so much charisma and personality to them, we could easily see ourselves within many of the characters. Nowadays the wokeness kinda overshadows that for a lot of people, and it's not as easy to connect with the fans as it used to. And sure, there were a lot of woke moments in the show, but they were really few and far between. And when they were, they were talking about the past, and how we're slowly moving on. I can't say for certain, but it feels like now it's trying to force it to be the new way all the way
It's because they watched the show as children; didn't really pay attention to the themes and subtext; grew up to be bigots; then continued watching and assumed it wasn't a thing when they watched it as children and now it's been "taken over." Childhood nostalgia mixed with being a bit thick (by definition).
Furthermore, this seemed especially weird considering that after Donna, the Smith and Jones narrative and DW Confidential imply that the Doctor has been on his own for a while post that. The episode is pretty much brilliant right up to the moment Martha steps into the Tardis. They walk back on the Doctor's character development in the Runaway Bride and suddenly make the comparisons between Rose and that Martha is only allowed one trip.
I love how these people yelled about how every villain in Series 11 and 12 were white guys but when confronted with evidence that that was untrue, they just said “Diversity hire”. It’s like those Obama-birther conspiracy theorists, who demanded Obama show them his birth certificate and when he did, they just said it was fake with a barely a glance.
Martha was a great character, it'd be nice to see her back in the show with RTD as showrunner again. I don't think it's a stretch to expect some guest appearance either (given that Freema is on board obviously!), she did have an arc in Torchwood after all, and she was originally supposed to be a main character in Children of Earth too!
Funny that Freema says humans are creatures of habit, and for some people change is scary. In a Doctor Who parody, "Not My Dalek," a dalek says unironically "Why must there always be change? Change is scary!"
That bowelstrek clip is just gross. I knew there was a reason why I was immediately repulsed by their thumbnails. Yeah, having seen No time to Die now, the about of manufactured outrage over certain plot points that don’t actually occur is doubly disgraceful.
@@Abominatrix650 Bold of you to assume he’s ever left his house. Or the Internet. I’m half sure he’s either living like some hermit who never leaves the house or he’s a troll, neither outlook does well for him.
For the evil algorithm! You have a lot to say, and most of, if not all, worth listening to. Freema is a treasure and not only my favorite companion from New Who (even if Donna's story had a more impactful ending); every time she reappeared it was a bonus; but also done some sterling work later on, like Sense8.
I'm so sad to hear about this. I'm glad I never saw any of this. Didn't use SM that much back then. I did see some racist remarks about pearl during her run. I remember thinking I wonder she seemed to be more negativity than what freema got. Looks like sadly that wasn't the case. Absolutely disgusting that actors or any people of colour have to put up with this
I wanna know how they'd fix Donna. Keep all her memories, but the Time Lord intelligence has to go. FFS, they were able to do it for Rodney McKay and Reg Barclay on Stargate and Star Trek!
It sickens me to my very core that she had to go through all this. When the announcement of her casting went out, being about 8 or 9 at the time, I was just like "Oh, interesting, I look forward to it." and completely unlike what those scumbags were saying in forums. I mean it was her big break thanks to RTD recasting her after Doomsday, Moffat would later do the same with Karen Gillan who is now a Hollywood superstar. The attitude of some people whenever an actor is cast as in a film or show can be disgusting.
It happens in every fandom, and the only thing we could do is just avoid the rotten part. But then again, I'm talking _as a fan_ , I imagine it'd be harder when you're the actor, holding that center of attention. I'm so sorry that happened to Freema.
Its hard for all of us and defently more for the actor becuse they think what did I do whrong? And us fans are told by both sides of politics, ohhh you can't like that its bad dont enjoy that content, and you feel left out if you like it. We need to let peaple like what they like and they to us, becuse once somone likes somthing or is dedicated to a project its usless to tell them to stop.
For me series 3 is the first series of doctor I watched as it aired at the time I was a kid I didn't understand the politics I just saw the doctor and his companion fighting monsters Martha is still one of my favourite companions of new who and doctor who as a whole I hope she comes back at some point since Russell is back
The worst part was that the show gave these people ammunition. They wrote into the narrative that the Doctor is actively treating the first black companion badly. Despite, Martha technically not being the first person he has travelled with after Rose - we had Donna first. And he did not treat her badly and even asked her to travel with him. But suddenly it's a problem when it's Martha.
I don't believe people don't see this. Even now people pulled down series 12 for casting 2 black Doctors ONLY due to that. For such a progressive show, a large part of the audience are the opposite
How awful. I was only 11 at the time had no idea all that happened. Shocking that part of the fandom would act that. Considering the things the doctor stands for never cruel or cowardly. Makes you think are they actually fans of the show.
Can’t believe some of this stuff. I would donate an organ to look like Freema-she’s gorgeous. And the Martha Jones character is highly educated, athletic with a whole range of useful skills-what’s not to like?
I hate this so much. Nobody deserves this sort of abuse and especially not one of the best actors we’ve had in the modern era. Martha is objectively the best companion in my mind.
I loved Martha, a bright star in a suffocating void of Britian's past-obsessions, quickly snuffed out. That's one of the nails the studio can't remove: Britian's deep-social abuse on foreigners and class-economics. Old-Money is still the Golden Devil in the Queen's Palace, and the Royals are willingly allowed more power to rule.
I loved Freema as Martha. She was a very strong female companion with a mind of her own. Unfortunately the unrequited love she had for the Doctor really diluted her storyline. It compromised her character’s development on the show. That is probably why Donna ended up being my favorite companion during the Davies era. It was so refreshing to have a companion who could deal with the Doctor on equal footing without the drama of being in love with him.
I honestly don’t understand why these horrible people are even fans of doctor who, which is a pretty inclusive tv series, the main character is pansexual genderfluid and have plenty of lgbtq+ characters, and people of different ethnicities and cultures. To be honest, there isn’t a lot of them but ever single one of them is an amazing character.
If the media didn't keep scoring woke points people wouldn't respond to them. Martha was great no need to mention her skin colour who cares how someone's sun tan is quit forcing it on us
To my absolute shame (I was a single dad watching Dr Who with my young son, so don't judge me) I just thought Frema filled a pair of jeans even better than Billy P. I kid you not the colour of her skin was about as significant as her shoe size.
Freema was let down on multiple levels. There was the typical racist abuse that unfortunately comes with non-white actors being cast in popular sci-fi/fantasy shows. There was the lack of any pushback against this from the show’s production team or the BBC. Then there was the fact that her character was treated like garbage in the actual script-writing. A running theme in series three was ‘Martha isn’t Rose’. She’s not as good as Rose, not as quick-witted as Rose, The Doctor doesn’t really like her because she’s not Rose. Martha was never given a real chance to develop, she’s also the only companion that was never able to build a relationship with The Doctor, consequently a large portion of the audience never took to her. I still find that frustrating because Freema is an excellent actress and Martha could have been one of the best companions of the series, if the writers gave her a fighting chance. It would be nice to see her brought back for a full series, outside the shadow Rose and emo Doctor.
My problem with Martha was never Freema. It was how she became sidelined by Rose. And also the depiction of mixed race relationships in New Who as always disfunctional. Only Donna's second attempt at marriage seems to be a success thus far. Even Heather and Ex CyberBill broke up ffs.
@@gibiscus they split up by the next episode. It's explained in the lockdown story that Heather turned Bill back into flesh and dropped her back on earth where she keeps in touch with Nardole. She found being with a goddess intimidating and has been contemplating dating a black lives matter activist.
In addition, the series did not exactly treat the topic of racism, as it pertained to Martha Jones, with the best portrayal in all of its narratives. The Shakespeare Code comes to mind... Note, the series did get better with this element, especially with the episodes, *Human Nature* and *The Family of Blood* ...
@@dmmoctober The Shakespeare Code isn't absolutely terrible. I didn't assert this I stated that the narrative/plot, treats the very genuine and realistic concern of the colonial history of the England and its participation, within the Atlantic Slave Trade (as brought up by Martha herself, initially) in not the best manner. This does not convey the greatest impression to the audience. The Doctor nonchalantly disregards it and the episode continues as if it were a minor inconvenience...
I don't think it got better because Miss Redfern was a racist but the narrative tried to make it so that we felt sorry for her. Even John Smith was racisr towards Martha. There's no repercussions for the prejudice, and Russell even brought that character back!
I must confess, I didn't see the racism directed at Freema. It is the sort of thing I'd expect from certain tabloids. Damn sure it was there, but her race didn't really register with me...
She could have been a great companion. I felt however the story arch and making her a love sick dejected puppy didn’t serve. It’s also sad what she faced. Anyone who claims to be a fan of the show and yet can be racist trash really has missed the real heart of the show.
Slightly off-topic but didn't you also say in a Twitter post that bowlestrek also called for an insurrection prior to the events of January 6? (You were right though in your assertion that bowlestrek is like a mix between Donald Trump and Mary Whitehouse) Because if so, I'm surprised the authorities haven't been alerted to his channel. Also, these Fandom Menace and YT fash dicks are sometimes just grifters trying to monetise bigotry. P.S. I'd recommend adding Channel Blocker to your internet search engine.
Although I respect Zack Snyder for calling out the racists - I also think we need to hold him accountable for the fact that his depiction of the Achaemenid Empire (the Persian people and other ethic groups) in 300 was lazy at best, & viciously racist at worst! While at the same time glorifying Sparta, of which was basically a militaristic city state, built off the backs of slaves, and run by bigoted pedos. And that crappy film has inspired many modern neo-nazis, at the January 6th riot, there were people wearing his Spartan helmets. If he genuinely cares about racial justice, he needs to take a long look at himself as well...
I hate this toxic perspective from certain corners of the fandom that diversity casting is somehow going to ruin the thing they love. Freema's situation is all reminding me of the racist reactions Amandla Stenberg received when they were cast as Rue in the Hunger Games film adaptation. The character Rue in the books is a dark skinned black girl. But when Amandla, who has lighter skin, was cast, Loads of people were outraged that they had dared to cast a performer of colour (they weren't the only cast member of colour to receive this backlash, but they were the only feminine cast member). The movie technically didn't even get the casting right, Amandla didn't match the character description, but loads of readers somehow missed Rue's ethnicity entirely and had imagined her as white the whole time. Shoutout to the popular sentiment that Rue's death wouldn't be as sad now because she wasn't white. God I hate it here...
I agree with you, but the word 'woke' that you used is Black English (aka AAVE), and using it, as a non-black person, is considered cultural appropriation. I don't intend to detract from the video's messaging, I.e. that the racism within the Doctor Who Fandom, and throughout the world as a whole, is vile and wrong, but I needed to call you out on this; please use another word next time, such as 'progressive'
If no one watches this (which they're not) maybe it's not really real, or at least worth bothering about. Not everyone likes everyone else - GET OVER IT!!
@@Mexican20067 The point is, not to make a point about it, or anything like that, just ignore it & get on with your life, as I said, not everyone likes everyone else & never will.
As someone around, I don't remember this racism towards her. I remember 3 things. 1) People wanted Rose. 2) They thought her character was kind of just there and bland 3) People wanted Rose. Friendly reminder for those too young. RUclips was still in its infancy. People mostly did forums still. No social media. She may say otherwise, but Im pretty sure she is taking criticism for racism. Especially stating that now, when its posh to declare everything racist. Reminder.. this was 2007... not 1950. The demand for racists far far exceeded the supply. This smells like when Meghan Markle stated how the British media was racist toward her when she married into the family.
Everyone I've ever heard who positively uses the word 'woke' seem oddly disconnected from modern society and still subconsciously pine for their grandparents' era. Maybe it's time to evolve.
I love your videos, but I wish you wouldn't deny Corbyn's antisemitism. I think you don't see it, and if that is the case, please listen to the Jewish people who spoke out about it and believe them. I was a big Corbyn supporter initially as I didn't see it, but I was blinded by my privilege. I have since educated myself. I really don't want to leave a negative comment on one of your videos, but I feel it's my duty as an ally to speak up.
Honestly, some of the biggest Corbyn supporters I know are Jewish People. I have listened to many from that community and they didn't see or find any examples and were significantly more scared of Boris becoming PM (because of his frequent dog-whistling and that he was also advised by Neo-Nazi Steve Bannon).
@@MrTARDIS The Equality and Human Rights Commission carried out an investigation into antisemitism within the Labour Party in October of 2020 and found significant examples of harassment and discrimination. They also concluded that it was enabled by Corbyn's lack of action on these issues. I would give Corbyn the benefit of the doubt and just put it down to lack of leadership skills, but his history of support for particular groups and published articles suggests otherwise. I'm a Labour voter and an avid-leftie, but I feel it would be a failure on my part to explain away this inconvenient truth. I did initially, but it was confirmation bias on my part.
When it comes to fictional characters, not really. As franchises last longer and need changing or adjusting to make them more refreshing and relevant it's absolutely okay in most instances.
@@MrTARDIS So you think it is ok if lets say some hypothetic Star Trek revamp Picard would become black, or Anakin Skywalker? The same as "making Lord of the Rings more inclusive", as it was written purely white?
@@noldo3837 yeah. Those franchises you've mentioned are actually really good examples where those characters have multiple iterations, multiple adaptations and interpretations so you wouldn't be losing anything. You'd just be gaining another version.
@@MrTARDIS OMG you must be joking. God bless I don't live in woke UK. I am strongly leftist, liberal and cosmopolitan, but by these nonsences you are your alike are destroying any real chances of progresive left by making a lot of people agaist what they call "neomarxism". It's the same kind of nonsense as stop using "Ladies and gentlemen", because some people consider themselves neither or both. Most peope I know are annoyed by the quotas on racial and sexual minorities in all Netflix series now, where they are obviously many times only as a token. I agree that it should be placed where it fits, but it does not have to be forced where it is obviously wrong (like LoTR). For example one Czech game, Kingdome Come: Deliverence was accused of no black people in there. Wow - it takes place in early 1400's Bohemia. That's why... So leave Picard or Anakin as they are, and make new characters or new multiverses.
@@MrTARDIS I would say its depends on the fictional character and time period and geographic era the story is set. But i don`t see a problem changing the race and gender of the Doctor. But when it comes to real historical people who has lived than race swapping and gender swapping is always wrong no exception.
With the new startrek and new doctor who as an extreme fan of the two I treat it as legit content and I enjoy them, I ignore others opinions unless im afrade the content will stop due to opinions becuse I love the shows so much I'm willing to look over slightly broken lore becuse its all just a good ride and doctor who and startrek have politics becuse they always have there meant to teach diversity and they have to adapt to the Times each generation, are there tiney things I would change in discovery and the new doctor who searies? Absolutely. The new starwars trilogy is an example of too much diversity and only made for one point of veiw, but peaple like what they like, for me mandalorian saved starwars. But with doctor who and startrek diversity and politics are meant to be in the shows there shows meant to take you on an adventure and make you open minded. I don't consider my self woke infact I have issues with both sides doctor who felt balenced to me it was only slightly woke from the doctors perspective and the doctor changes personality as apearence when they regenerate. discovery and picard wer balenced aswell becuse they showed everyones perspective and the repercussions for those characters actions good and bad. Nothing felt forced becuse I dident focuse in on everything with a sour pair of glasses i ignored what i dident like witch wasent much and I loved the diversity and they wer very right about every thing even taughtbthe relationship of a son and father in doctor who. The doctor was like a hyper mom and I actually loved that it was very doctor who. I hope we move forward past all the rants and hate.
I have never seen New Amsterdam. She was fine on Doctor Who. Back then the scripts were great. No attack back then on William Hartnell's place in Doctor Who. I liked Martha Jones but not keen on her mother. Chibnall wrecked everything!
Martha is one of those RTD era companions who I think should definitely make a come back, especially now seeing as the man himself is returning.
It would be amazing if she became a title character of a spin off a la torchwood.
When I saw this on Instagram, it absolutely broke my heart. Martha had always been my favourite and Freema is an absolute star.
She was always a champ and she deserves better than those shitheads
Freema deserved so much better. It always bothers me even how many people talk about Martha being “useless” and other stuff, when she really wasn’t. Everyone’s allowed their preferences, but the fans can get so harsh and it’s appalling.
Martha was definitely one of the Doctor's smartest (newWho) companions, able to keep up with the Doctor on multiple levels. Although, I don't think she was as good a friend as Donna, who would challenge the Doctor and hold his feet to the fire more often.
Do people really talk about Martha being "useless"?! There are like several episodes in a row where she saves the Doctor, and the universe 😂
No way she was "useless" especially after rose. In fact almost all of my favorite episodes have Martha in them. Racists can suck it
Her story was boring compared to Rose i blame the fukn writers. And then her name comes up third now cuz this random redhead joins the show & the show give most of the lines to her, it's so uncomfortable to watch.
Martha is amazing! She struggled so much more than most companions, having to deal with the Doctor being an asshole a lot of the time and then fending for herself in an apocalypse for a year, and she ended up saving the universe! I love Rose and Donna but I also love Martha, she's criminally underrated imo.
Freema as Martha was great she is one of my favourite modern Who companions and had a great dynamic with David, I preferred her over Rose.
Period!
Nonsense
Rose is overated
Same. Especially in the family of blood 2 parter. Part of the reason that’s my favorite episode from series 3 if not the entire new who is cuz of Martha watching over the doctor while he’s human and not putting up with his shit.
It was honestly quite traumatizing to witness as a young black fan (I was 8), I had only discovered DW recently and I absolutely loved it, but going online to try and find the community around it was one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made. Walls of hateful rants about Martha everywhere I went, I tried very hard to make sense of it but it was (obviously) an impossible task.
So sorry, that's the problem now, you have to find a particular corner of the fanbase to feel accepted, can't just be yourself :( I hope you found your tribe eventually and people who also appreciate what you do but don't make you feel bad for being who you are.
I can't help it. She is astonishingly beautiful, every time.
She brought Martha to life and remains one of my favorite parts of the show
That's a real shame to hear that Freema got racist abuse, and it seems like even now it obviously still seems to upset her.
Hopefully she knows and understands how much she is loved by a lot of fans, myself included.
I feel like racism and homophobia is slowly contributing to my doctor who burnout, I really wish these people could get their act together and stop being so horrible and get educated.
It sometimes makes me embarrassed to be a part of this community. We can disagree, but first you have to acknowledge reality and seriously question how you can be a fan of the show but also be a racist, misogynist, Homophobe or whatever else.
@Tom Ford surely by being educated and not being ignorant-?
@@samuelbarber6177 same!
For me, it was writing it’s already been establish that time lords can change Sex i’m OK with that. I’m at peace with that. My problem is that the first female doctor deserves better writing. But no, now it’s brought out the worst in the phantom cousin, everyone to lose interest.
It doesn't really have anything to do with Doctor Who, and certainly nothing to do with real 'fandom'. Racists are everywhere, I don't think people who watch Doctor Who have a higher percentage of being racist than fans of other TV shows.
But if the Doctor Who community wanted to be positive about it, then it can make a concerted effort to push this shit out, and be vocal they're not welcome and don't represent the rest of us.
Also Jesus, what time machine is she using? Martha could clearly come back and not have aged a day.
I loved Freema Agyeman in Doctor Who. Martha Jones is still one of my favorite companions even though she made only 1 season, I loved all her crossovers guest-appearances in Doctor Who & Torchwood. She was great in Sense8 too. I always love to see her in tv series and I'm very glad she's doing well. I know it must be thanks to her participation in Doctor Who.
I mean it didn’t help when the black companions *in show* to that point were treated like crap by the leads. Mickey from the jump is “Mickey the idiot” and is pretty much treated like such until he’s finally dumped off in the parallel universe. Martha is treated 2nd best by the Doctor for a series, while constantly pining for Rose and they really didn’t expect that wouldn’t add fuel to the fire?
Mickey does possess a fulfilling arc. I understand your point, though. Even racism, as a element wasn't addressed in the best manner.
Yeah, they just gave them ammo.
Do you think the Mickey character was treated like an idiot because he was black, or because he was... A bit of an idiot? Were his character traits decided and written before the production team chose the actor who was playing the part?
Anyway, in the later episodes his character had developed substantially from the bumbling kid into something completely different...
I’m not sure about the mickey one as rory had a similar character arc, being the kind of “stupid” boyfriends and turning into more of a strong character.
Thankfully when they next had a companion have an on-Earth black boyfriend the doctor treated him very well oh wait no the Doctor is extremely hostile towards Danny and specifically has a hard time believing Danny is smart enough to teach maths
I remember seeing an article from the start of Series 10, that said that Bill was the first non-white companion. I couldn't believe that people were forgetting Martha already.
Oh, and I saw No Time to Die. Lashana Lynch was brilliant. So was the film. The internet is just full of easily-angered racists.
Yeah. Motherfuckers wanna act like she degraded and humiliated Bond and announced herself as him when all she was (something else that news theories have held for quite a while now but I'm not gonna say it in case of spoiling it for other people. Even if it might not be that major of a spoiler.)
There have been people outraged over that film. Why? Because it had a prominent black female character, and in ONE line Q says he has a date coming over, using the pronoun ‘he’. That’s all.
@@samuelbarber6177 And FFS, she asks for him to be given his number back. People are just stupid.
Martha wasn't the first black companion. Mickey was.
@@DemetriusSorvo debatable on whether you could call Mickey a companion versus ‘person who was in more than a few episodes’
Hold up. Now, I know in hindsight he can just get in the bin, but Noel Clark was technically thhe first black companion right? He travelled with the Doctor in series 2, he was a companion
He did technically travel in the TARDIS for 2 stories, but I think the "Companion" label doesn't count him.
Kinda like how Jackie Tyler and Wilfred Mott did technically travel with the Doctor but don't count as "companions".
Micky was a companion in the series 4 finale
I mean technically if the comic companions count, the first black companion goes to Sharon Davies for the 4th Doctor comics in Doctor Who Magazine.
@@MrTARDIS Mickey's whole arc was also about him being the tin dog of the 9th/10th Doctor TARDIS team, and he grew the most as a character when he stepped away from The Doctor and Rose, the Cyberman two-parter illustrates this quite clearly and is very much the impetus for his departure. His relationship with Rose has essentially run its course by the time he steps onboard the TARDIS, because he turned down the Doctor's offer at the end of Aliens of London. He decides to follow Rose a season too late, realises he doesn't really fit in, and then leaves early when he finds a new purpose fighting against the Cybermen. I always saw him as a companion of Rose rather than the Doctor.
No. He was the Tin Dog.
I really appreciate watching this type of discussion happening, especially it not being incited a black voice. By the way you did a great job. It's really strange being a black Sci-fi fan because algorithms often send me white supremacist content (I swear the more doctor who videos I watch the more they recommend me Ben Shapiro videos) Anyway thanks for the positivity.
You do no Ben Shapiro is Jewish and has had multiple death threats from "white supremacists" or the ones people like to call "Nazis"
Will, that you use your combination of being a strong fan, having experience in the industry and a sizeable viewership/following and frequently address these issues and call them out makes me proud to have been subscribed to you for the past 11 years. You're a true champ and a Chad.
P.S. It's OK if you can't handle spice. I'm Asian and I've found that my spice tolerance has decreased a little over the years! Not sure how that happened but whatever. You're still a champ!
Freema is on the best actress in history of this show, especially it's recent history.
Thanks for continuing to address matters such as this in regards to the fandom. As bad as the people who push racist agendas are, I think that those who disregard it entirely (due to it being too unpleasant to talk about, or would just like to pretend that it isn't as bad as people think) can be just as damaging as indifference is another factor that allows ideas like this to thrive.
Great analysis, thank you, and all respect to Freema. I'm so fed up of fandom bigotry, I almost wish I were still shocked by it, instead of just feeling so, so tired.
Can I just say with the increasingly fast slide into horror that the UK is taking, how amazing and vital it is to have youtubers in this fandom like you and Council of geeks talk about issues like this and push back against this culture of cruelty and wilfull ignorance we find ourselves in.
“The increasingly fast slide into horror?”
What do you mean?
@@eccremocarpusscaber5159 Well an MP was just murdered in broad daylight. That answer your question?
I grew up with Freema, this is heartbreaking
If the racism towards Freema was bad, I shudder at what Ncuti is about to go through
Just recently found your channel, I hadn’t been watching any doctor who content for a while, but the RTD news boosted it back into my algorithm. I’m glad I’m getting people like you and jay exci, and not the boweltreks of the world, because that’s all it was giving me back in the day and the toxicity literally contributed to putting me in the hospital, they just take in people who already hate themselves to some extent, and make them scared of the world
Martha is honestly one of my favourite companions
The fanbase (whether or not you can call these people "fans"... or even "people") and the BBC's odd and damaging ways of marketing this series has just completely slowed my interest in this series. I should be excited but I feel nothing.
Yep. I feel that.
She was literally my favorite companion and as a 7 year old loving and enjoying the show (recently turned 15) I had a small crush on Freema. 👀
I adored Freema Agyeman from day one. I still love her in New Amsterdam. My favorite companion and one of my favorite actors. Sadly, there will always be racists and idiots in the world.
This breaks my heart. I adored Martha so much, I named my new car at the time after her.
I seriously don’t understand how you can be a fan of Doctor Who and also be racist. This show’s primary villain species (arguably the very reason it still exists) are a thinly-veiled Nazi allegory and the show quite frequently attacks prejudice, even in its golden years when it supposedly wasn’t “PC”.
Yes 👏 exactly. I don’t understand the people who now don’t like the show because it’s too “woke”. It’s always been a progressive and educational show.
@@colonyofrats4193 I think it's because before it was at least more subtle about it, and with cases like Martha, the characters were more than just the first black companion (actually second if you briefly count Mickey, I think). They had so much charisma and personality to them, we could easily see ourselves within many of the characters. Nowadays the wokeness kinda overshadows that for a lot of people, and it's not as easy to connect with the fans as it used to. And sure, there were a lot of woke moments in the show, but they were really few and far between. And when they were, they were talking about the past, and how we're slowly moving on. I can't say for certain, but it feels like now it's trying to force it to be the new way all the way
It's because they watched the show as children; didn't really pay attention to the themes and subtext; grew up to be bigots; then continued watching and assumed it wasn't a thing when they watched it as children and now it's been "taken over." Childhood nostalgia mixed with being a bit thick (by definition).
Furthermore, this seemed especially weird considering that after Donna, the Smith and Jones narrative and DW Confidential imply that the Doctor has been on his own for a while post that. The episode is pretty much brilliant right up to the moment Martha steps into the Tardis. They walk back on the Doctor's character development in the Runaway Bride and suddenly make the comparisons between Rose and that Martha is only allowed one trip.
I love how these people yelled about how every villain in Series 11 and 12 were white guys but when confronted with evidence that that was untrue, they just said “Diversity hire”. It’s like those Obama-birther conspiracy theorists, who demanded Obama show them his birth certificate and when he did, they just said it was fake with a barely a glance.
Martha was a great character, it'd be nice to see her back in the show with RTD as showrunner again. I don't think it's a stretch to expect some guest appearance either (given that Freema is on board obviously!), she did have an arc in Torchwood after all, and she was originally supposed to be a main character in Children of Earth too!
I was 7-8 years old when series 3 aired & with no access to news articles at the time, so I didn't even notice this racism issue at the time.
Funny that Freema says humans are creatures of habit, and for some people change is scary. In a Doctor Who parody, "Not My Dalek," a dalek says unironically "Why must there always be change? Change is scary!"
I love Joe Vevers. Great parody maker. Going strong since 2013, I believe.
Freea was awesome companion. Following Billy Piper's "Rose" was going to be a monotonous task
That bowelstrek clip is just gross. I knew there was a reason why I was immediately repulsed by their thumbnails.
Yeah, having seen No time to Die now, the about of manufactured outrage over certain plot points that don’t actually occur is doubly disgraceful.
I bet when he goes out into the street and sees a black or Asian person he thinks "Oh God, my daily life is trying to make me woke!"
@@Abominatrix650 I mean, if comments section of major newspapers and talk radio is anything to go by, most racists do feel like that.
Bowlestrek's heart is full of hatred of women and people of colour which makes him a sexist and a racist
@@benmiller3252 indeed.
@@Abominatrix650 Bold of you to assume he’s ever left his house. Or the Internet. I’m half sure he’s either living like some hermit who never leaves the house or he’s a troll, neither outlook does well for him.
For the evil algorithm!
You have a lot to say, and most of, if not all, worth listening to. Freema is a treasure and not only my favorite companion from New Who (even if Donna's story had a more impactful ending); every time she reappeared it was a bonus; but also done some sterling work later on, like Sense8.
I hope that RTD bring her back, a spin off of UNIT, or another thing. Martha needs more.
I never feel that he like her.
UNIT 👍🏻
@@eccremocarpusscaber5159 done, thanks
I'm so sad to hear about this. I'm glad I never saw any of this. Didn't use SM that much back then. I did see some racist remarks about pearl during her run. I remember thinking I wonder she seemed to be more negativity than what freema got. Looks like sadly that wasn't the case. Absolutely disgusting that actors or any people of colour have to put up with this
I hope big finish does put Martha Jones and Donna Noble against the cybermen
I wanna know how they'd fix Donna. Keep all her memories, but the Time Lord intelligence has to go. FFS, they were able to do it for Rodney McKay and Reg Barclay on Stargate and Star Trek!
no donna
It sickens me to my very core that she had to go through all this. When the announcement of her casting went out, being about 8 or 9 at the time, I was just like "Oh, interesting, I look forward to it." and completely unlike what those scumbags were saying in forums. I mean it was her big break thanks to RTD recasting her after Doomsday, Moffat would later do the same with Karen Gillan who is now a Hollywood superstar. The attitude of some people whenever an actor is cast as in a film or show can be disgusting.
Next minute Bowlestrek does a 3 hour rant on Freema being against tuna salad
It happens in every fandom, and the only thing we could do is just avoid the rotten part. But then again, I'm talking _as a fan_ , I imagine it'd be harder when you're the actor, holding that center of attention. I'm so sorry that happened to Freema.
Its hard for all of us and defently more for the actor becuse they think what did I do whrong? And us fans are told by both sides of politics, ohhh you can't like that its bad dont enjoy that content, and you feel left out if you like it. We need to let peaple like what they like and they to us, becuse once somone likes somthing or is dedicated to a project its usless to tell them to stop.
Freema:) Oh my she looks so good. She looks like she barely aged a day!!
I'm shocked at how she hasn't changed
Christ Almighty she's still so beautiful
She’s gorgeous
So true
I always liked her as a companion. Shes a good actress and so beautiful. I was mad when she left.
For me series 3 is the first series of doctor I watched as it aired at the time I was a kid I didn't understand the politics I just saw the doctor and his companion fighting monsters Martha is still one of my favourite companions of new who and doctor who as a whole I hope she comes back at some point since Russell is back
My god she has not aged atal! Freema is so b-e-a-utiful!!!
The worst part was that the show gave these people ammunition. They wrote into the narrative that the Doctor is actively treating the first black companion badly. Despite, Martha technically not being the first person he has travelled with after Rose - we had Donna first. And he did not treat her badly and even asked her to travel with him. But suddenly it's a problem when it's Martha.
Martha was wonderful as a companion and Freema is stellar as an actress
I don't believe people don't see this. Even now people pulled down series 12 for casting 2 black Doctors ONLY due to that. For such a progressive show, a large part of the audience are the opposite
It's almost as if Martha Jones' poor treatment on the show was an unintended parallel to Freema's poor treatment
How awful. I was only 11 at the time had no idea all that happened. Shocking that part of the fandom would act that. Considering the things the doctor stands for never cruel or cowardly. Makes you think are they actually fans of the show.
My favorite companion. Lalla Ward (tied w/Sarah Sutton) my favorite for the classic ones
Martha Jones was my favourite she was amazing in the family of blood story and especially the master 3 part epic
Loved Martha, not at all surprised at the racism, feels like things getting worse instead of better.
Can’t believe some of this stuff. I would donate an organ to look like Freema-she’s gorgeous. And the Martha Jones character is highly educated, athletic with a whole range of useful skills-what’s not to like?
I hate this so much. Nobody deserves this sort of abuse and especially not one of the best actors we’ve had in the modern era.
Martha is objectively the best companion in my mind.
I loved Martha, a bright star in a suffocating void of Britian's past-obsessions, quickly snuffed out. That's one of the nails the studio can't remove: Britian's deep-social abuse on foreigners and class-economics. Old-Money is still the Golden Devil in the Queen's Palace, and the Royals are willingly allowed more power to rule.
I loved Freema as Martha. She was a very strong female companion with a mind of her own. Unfortunately the unrequited love she had for the Doctor really diluted her storyline. It compromised her character’s development on the show. That is probably why Donna ended up being my favorite companion during the Davies era. It was so refreshing to have a companion who could deal with the Doctor on equal footing without the drama of being in love with him.
Great video
I honestly don’t understand why these horrible people are even fans of doctor who, which is a pretty inclusive tv series, the main character is pansexual genderfluid and have plenty of lgbtq+ characters, and people of different ethnicities and cultures. To be honest, there isn’t a lot of them but ever single one of them is an amazing character.
I thought Noel Clarke was the first black companion
It's unfortunate she had to go through that she's a brilliant actress
If the media didn't keep scoring woke points people wouldn't respond to them. Martha was great no need to mention her skin colour who cares how someone's sun tan is quit forcing it on us
Yeah, I don't think she should be the one to have to come up with examples. There is a Tumblr that has come up with a lot of examples, though.
She is so pretty and looks like she's in her 20's.
Martha was the best!
To my absolute shame (I was a single dad watching Dr Who with my young son, so don't judge me) I just thought Frema filled a pair of jeans even better than Billy P. I kid you not the colour of her skin was about as significant as her shoe size.
Do you think a black woman and a white woman fill out jeans the same way? Skin color was definitely a factor.
These are the same people who claim that they don't care about the actor's race so long as they're qualified.
That Bowlestrek clip is sickening.
Freema was let down on multiple levels. There was the typical racist abuse that unfortunately comes with non-white actors being cast in popular sci-fi/fantasy shows. There was the lack of any pushback against this from the show’s production team or the BBC.
Then there was the fact that her character was treated like garbage in the actual script-writing. A running theme in series three was ‘Martha isn’t Rose’. She’s not as good as Rose, not as quick-witted as Rose, The Doctor doesn’t really like her because she’s not Rose. Martha was never given a real chance to develop, she’s also the only companion that was never able to build a relationship with The Doctor, consequently a large portion of the audience never took to her. I still find that frustrating because Freema is an excellent actress and Martha could have been one of the best companions of the series, if the writers gave her a fighting chance. It would be nice to see her brought back for a full series, outside the shadow Rose and emo Doctor.
My problem with Martha was never Freema. It was how she became sidelined by Rose. And also the depiction of mixed race relationships in New Who as always disfunctional. Only Donna's second attempt at marriage seems to be a success thus far. Even Heather and Ex CyberBill broke up ffs.
I thought they lived happily ever after as space puddles?
@@gibiscus they split up by the next episode. It's explained in the lockdown story that Heather turned Bill back into flesh and dropped her back on earth where she keeps in touch with Nardole. She found being with a goddess intimidating and has been contemplating dating a black lives matter activist.
In addition, the series did not exactly treat the topic of racism, as it pertained to Martha Jones, with the best portrayal in all of its narratives. The Shakespeare Code comes to mind...
Note, the series did get better with this element, especially with the episodes, *Human Nature* and *The Family of Blood* ...
How was the shakespeare code bad?
@@dmmoctober
The Shakespeare Code isn't absolutely terrible. I didn't assert this I stated that the narrative/plot, treats the very genuine and realistic concern of the colonial history of the England and its participation, within the Atlantic Slave Trade (as brought up by Martha herself, initially) in not the best manner. This does not convey the greatest impression to the audience. The Doctor nonchalantly disregards it and the episode continues as if it were a minor inconvenience...
I don't think it got better because Miss Redfern was a racist but the narrative tried to make it so that we felt sorry for her. Even John Smith was racisr towards Martha. There's no repercussions for the prejudice, and Russell even brought that character back!
I must confess, I didn't see the racism directed at Freema. It is the sort of thing I'd expect from certain tabloids. Damn sure it was there, but her race didn't really register with me...
You would think that wouldn’t happen
She could have been a great companion. I felt however the story arch and making her a love sick dejected puppy didn’t serve. It’s also sad what she faced. Anyone who claims to be a fan of the show and yet can be racist trash really has missed the real heart of the show.
The awful bbc needs more diversity of opinion nowadays.
but when that happens you go nuts
take ryan and yaz
I'm not surprised, even the Doctor was distant and cold with her. The same with Mickey who always saw him as an idiot and underestimated him.
Whatcha bet in a couple years they’ll yelling about the show being terrible and citing the current era as it not being so woke?
Slightly off-topic but didn't you also say in a Twitter post that bowlestrek also called for an insurrection prior to the events of January 6? (You were right though in your assertion that bowlestrek is like a mix between Donald Trump and Mary Whitehouse) Because if so, I'm surprised the authorities haven't been alerted to his channel. Also, these Fandom Menace and YT fash dicks are sometimes just grifters trying to monetise bigotry.
P.S. I'd recommend adding Channel Blocker to your internet search engine.
Although I respect Zack Snyder for calling out the racists - I also think we need to hold him accountable for the fact that his depiction of the Achaemenid Empire (the Persian people and other ethic groups) in 300 was lazy at best, & viciously racist at worst! While at the same time glorifying Sparta, of which was basically a militaristic city state, built off the backs of slaves, and run by bigoted pedos.
And that crappy film has inspired many modern neo-nazis, at the January 6th riot, there were people wearing his Spartan helmets. If he genuinely cares about racial justice, he needs to take a long look at himself as well...
Interesting to find a zack snyder comment here. Im a snyder fan but the last place I expected his name to appear in is in a doctor who related video.
As a black man myself I personally feel that snyder is an ally and is not racist at all
Piss off Bowelstrek , Herr Komandant and Nerdrotic
I hate this toxic perspective from certain corners of the fandom that diversity casting is somehow going to ruin the thing they love. Freema's situation is all reminding me of the racist reactions Amandla Stenberg received when they were cast as Rue in the Hunger Games film adaptation.
The character Rue in the books is a dark skinned black girl. But when Amandla, who has lighter skin, was cast, Loads of people were outraged that they had dared to cast a performer of colour (they weren't the only cast member of colour to receive this backlash, but they were the only feminine cast member). The movie technically didn't even get the casting right, Amandla didn't match the character description, but loads of readers somehow missed Rue's ethnicity entirely and had imagined her as white the whole time. Shoutout to the popular sentiment that Rue's death wouldn't be as sad now because she wasn't white. God I hate it here...
TheObsesedWhovian95 doesn't like bowlestrek either
I honestly didn't know racisim was this bad. Disgusting. What the hell does it matter, I genuinely don't get it.
The person who said asian will be the majority, do you know who big Asia is?
I love the James bond film
Lashana Lynch
Thanks for the correction.
I agree with you, but the word 'woke' that you used is Black English (aka AAVE), and using it, as a non-black person, is considered cultural appropriation. I don't intend to detract from the video's messaging, I.e. that the racism within the Doctor Who Fandom, and throughout the world as a whole, is vile and wrong, but I needed to call you out on this; please use another word next time, such as 'progressive'
im tired of being recomended nerdrotic videos where he complains for the 9999th time that dr who is "too pc"
Ummm then why don't you click don't recommend from channel or not interested then...?
@@Mexican20067 yeh i dont click but it still apears on my recomended m8 even when i click dont recomend
If no one watches this (which they're not) maybe it's not really real, or at least worth bothering about. Not everyone likes everyone else - GET OVER IT!!
The point is that people were being racist to her...
@@Mexican20067 The point is, not to make a point about it, or anything like that, just ignore it & get on with your life, as I said, not everyone likes everyone else & never will.
@@Chillmax Oh great idea - ignore problems and don't address them.
As someone around, I don't remember this racism towards her. I remember 3 things. 1) People wanted Rose. 2) They thought her character was kind of just there and bland 3) People wanted Rose. Friendly reminder for those too young. RUclips was still in its infancy. People mostly did forums still. No social media. She may say otherwise, but Im pretty sure she is taking criticism for racism. Especially stating that now, when its posh to declare everything racist. Reminder.. this was 2007... not 1950. The demand for racists far far exceeded the supply. This smells like when Meghan Markle stated how the British media was racist toward her when she married into the family.
Everyone I've ever heard who positively uses the word 'woke' seem oddly disconnected from modern society and still subconsciously pine for their grandparents' era. Maybe it's time to evolve.
I love your videos, but I wish you wouldn't deny Corbyn's antisemitism. I think you don't see it, and if that is the case, please listen to the Jewish people who spoke out about it and believe them. I was a big Corbyn supporter initially as I didn't see it, but I was blinded by my privilege. I have since educated myself. I really don't want to leave a negative comment on one of your videos, but I feel it's my duty as an ally to speak up.
Honestly, some of the biggest Corbyn supporters I know are Jewish People.
I have listened to many from that community and they didn't see or find any examples and were significantly more scared of Boris becoming PM (because of his frequent dog-whistling and that he was also advised by Neo-Nazi Steve Bannon).
@@MrTARDIS The Equality and Human Rights Commission carried out an investigation into antisemitism within the Labour Party in October of 2020 and found significant examples of harassment and discrimination. They also concluded that it was enabled by Corbyn's lack of action on these issues.
I would give Corbyn the benefit of the doubt and just put it down to lack of leadership skills, but his history of support for particular groups and published articles suggests otherwise.
I'm a Labour voter and an avid-leftie, but I feel it would be a failure on my part to explain away this inconvenient truth. I did initially, but it was confirmation bias on my part.
Racism is bad, but race swapping and gender swapping in existing characters is nonsence, and makes people rightfully angry.
When it comes to fictional characters, not really. As franchises last longer and need changing or adjusting to make them more refreshing and relevant it's absolutely okay in most instances.
@@MrTARDIS So you think it is ok if lets say some hypothetic Star Trek revamp Picard would become black, or Anakin Skywalker? The same as "making Lord of the Rings more inclusive", as it was written purely white?
@@noldo3837 yeah.
Those franchises you've mentioned are actually really good examples where those characters have multiple iterations, multiple adaptations and interpretations so you wouldn't be losing anything. You'd just be gaining another version.
@@MrTARDIS OMG you must be joking. God bless I don't live in woke UK. I am strongly leftist, liberal and cosmopolitan, but by these nonsences you are your alike are destroying any real chances of progresive left by making a lot of people agaist what they call "neomarxism". It's the same kind of nonsense as stop using "Ladies and gentlemen", because some people consider themselves neither or both. Most peope I know are annoyed by the quotas on racial and sexual minorities in all Netflix series now, where they are obviously many times only as a token. I agree that it should be placed where it fits, but it does not have to be forced where it is obviously wrong (like LoTR). For example one Czech game, Kingdome Come: Deliverence was accused of no black people in there. Wow - it takes place in early 1400's Bohemia. That's why... So leave Picard or Anakin as they are, and make new characters or new multiverses.
@@MrTARDIS I would say its depends on the fictional character and time period and geographic era the story is set. But i don`t see a problem changing the race and gender of the Doctor. But when it comes to real historical people who has lived than race swapping and gender swapping is always wrong no exception.
With the new startrek and new doctor who as an extreme fan of the two I treat it as legit content and I enjoy them, I ignore others opinions unless im afrade the content will stop due to opinions becuse I love the shows so much I'm willing to look over slightly broken lore becuse its all just a good ride and doctor who and startrek have politics becuse they always have there meant to teach diversity and they have to adapt to the Times each generation, are there tiney things I would change in discovery and the new doctor who searies? Absolutely. The new starwars trilogy is an example of too much diversity and only made for one point of veiw, but peaple like what they like, for me mandalorian saved starwars. But with doctor who and startrek diversity and politics are meant to be in the shows there shows meant to take you on an adventure and make you open minded. I don't consider my self woke infact I have issues with both sides doctor who felt balenced to me it was only slightly woke from the doctors perspective and the doctor changes personality as apearence when they regenerate. discovery and picard wer balenced aswell becuse they showed everyones perspective and the repercussions for those characters actions good and bad. Nothing felt forced becuse I dident focuse in on everything with a sour pair of glasses i ignored what i dident like witch wasent much and I loved the diversity and they wer very right about every thing even taughtbthe relationship of a son and father in doctor who. The doctor was like a hyper mom and I actually loved that it was very doctor who. I hope we move forward past all the rants and hate.
chibnall
I have never seen New Amsterdam. She was fine on Doctor Who. Back then the scripts were great. No attack back then on William Hartnell's place in Doctor Who. I liked Martha Jones but not keen on her mother. Chibnall wrecked everything!
Dude, not the time or place.
Is this about doctor who or the future of the Labour Party? .... novara media joke 😒