FIRE ALARM SURVEY ON A BLOCK OF FLATS
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2017
- I am given a specification by a client to quote and survey a fire alarm installation on a block of flats. The specification states it is to be a grade A, LD2 fire alarm system that meets BS5839-1.
I explain the discrepancy between BS5839 Part 1 and Part 6, the different categories and grades.
I take you on a very simple fire alarm survey and explain what I do including locations of detectors, sounders, manual call points and the electrical requirements for a fire alarm panel. BS767:2008 Amendment 3 2015 should be followed when installing electrical supplies.
Thanks for watching!!
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Thanks so much, watching this averted a small crisis and saved me loads!
Great Video. Lots of detailed information.
Great insight 👍
Note someone has an ADT intruder alarm on their flat, bet the neighbours love it when that goes off!
The Primal Nutritionist When I loaded up this video I was like OMG how does that happen ADT!
U
Great video mate you know your stuff
Thanks!
I miss your videos 🥺
Really informative video that mate..
I'm a sparky and I'm looking for Info on how to test the actual smoke/heat/co2 alarms when I fit them as a lot.of customers want them to come signed off.
Not much info out there without buying the regs on it so guess I will have to get the book.
But this video was a good watch.
Fire alarms are too complicated and I now know to stay away from anything other than your basic interlinked alarm system
Glad it helped. Fire safety in general is a whole new level of competence and understanding. Many fire alarm installers lack general fire safety knowledge because fire alarms are just one small part!
Hi Dan, really good video explaining how you would come to suggest a system.
I would like to know how you produce your zone charts and as fitted drawings?
Nice video Dan , question for you , 2 storey 4 block of flats , common stair , ie 2 ground 2 first , would you treat this common stair as part 1 ? Our housing department asked me today on fire alarms in common stairs , so your timing is brilliant, your feedback would be greatly appreciated
Jim Douglas Hey. If the flats are self contained individual flats and the property isn't an HMO or sheltered shared housing, the communal areas come under Part 1. See my notes below on what Part 6 covers. All else would come under Part 1.
There is a large misconception with communal areas but I like to refer to them as 'commercial' areas which keeps it nice and easy to remember.
BS 5839: Pt.6 covers the following domestic building types:
Bungalows
Multi-storey houses
Individual flats
Individual maisonettes
Mobile homes
Individual sheltered accommodation as well as their common parts
Houses in multiple occupation (HMOs)
Certain NHS housing in the community
Mansions
Shared houses
Houses divided into several self-contained single-family dwelling units
Not included are hostels, caravans, boats (other than permanently moored) and communal parts of blocks or flats or maisonettes.
Did you get this quote excepted and did you go with L1? Also did you consider cause and effects delay for each flat as so that it wouldn't cause a nuisance to other residents should someone keep causing false alarms from cooking/accidentally activating? assuming a smoke and heat was installed in flat and a smoke would be zonal (to flat) but a second knock from heat to trigger full activation?
Jason Jenkin I highlighted my concerns with the information provided and they were happy to accept an L3 design with a variation that the detectors within the flats would be hear detectors. They haven't accepted the quote yet because as it is a shared block of flats, they have to arrange finances with multiple people! What you have suggested is sensible but the issue lies within the flats that they are privately owned. Some might be happy to have intrusive works inside but some won't. We can of course for radio if necessary. We can do whatever they want but I am concerned that they lack understanding of what they are asking and subsequently they will always be reluctant to spend on it!
Great video thanks 👍
Do electricians require any additional certs or training in order to start installing and maintaining fire alarm systems?
Anyone can work on systems legally but yes - the British Standards and Legislation such as the RRO requires competent persons to work on fire safety systems. You would struggle to justify competence without some form of training if something failed one day and someone was injured as a result.
Dans the Engineer, Dan for your information. The company I work for has many accreditation’s. We have been reliably informed that the new FIA exams will be mandatory when there is enough engineers trained. So that companies will have to be accredited, Only engineers with the correct exam will be allowed to do the work-they are certificated for.Malcolm, ex fire brigade trained FP officer. As a side point remember if you choose the system don’t forget to put a legal provision to ensure this will not be instead of a fire risk assessment. When the new 5839 part 6 came out. The system has to take note of the competence of the occupants. If you need more info PM me.
Hi Dan, hope you are doing good, look I am doing some electrical installation alteration work in a student accommodation in Manchester, which is an HMO building, now they have an existing Grade D2 Category LD2 system alarm in it, they have told me to put Carbon detector in Kitchen where the Boiler is, I plan to put a carbon detector on the same circuit which is currently used for smoke detectors, they currently have only two smoke detectors one in kitchen and one in corridor, none in the bedsits, its a 5 storey building with each bedsit rented to a different household, and they do share kitchen, and they also have Grade A system LD2 for they stairwells with a sounder in each flat. Question 1, does it comply if I use the same circuit to power a carbon detector? question 2 is does it still comply if the bedrooms/bedsits do not have a smoke detector individually
Great Vids Dan.
Could you make that fire alarms grade/category sheet downloadable?
The Fire Guy good shout. I'll throw it on my Facebook page and I'll let you know when it's up
What materials and guidance do you use to ensure the holes created are fire stopped?
There is no British Standard to follow so generally speaking you'll be having manufacturer guidance. I highly recommend using reputable companies like Hilti. Its worth contacting Hilti as they'll come to you and demo their products. There's a product for each application.
I think Greg wants to know if your ok? 😂👍🏻
Jason Jenkin he knows I am absolutely fine and dandy. I have messaged him. New video out tomorrow..... keep an eye out
I have a question for you I live in a floor block of flats but no fire alarm system how can this be aloud to happen
can you give an explanation on the stay put policy with regards to giving occupants early warning so that they can escape
The point of stay put is that they do not escape. The building contains the fire within compartments and the fire and rescue attend and tackles the fire. It can be very misleading and the strategy needs carefully planning. But the point is that someone or something needs to raise the alarm.
Dans the Engineer cheers dan, I have had some architects drawings through for a 10 flat conversion with communal way and it says L2 fire alarm system to communal way only, should they have specified a grade as well as the category ?
He’s props wanting to go addressable due to the higher cost a 2 wire system would be more than acceptable here
Tell me James, how do you zone a building like this? Specifically the call points? And don't forget if it meets Part 6 you have to have 72Ah standby battery backup. I argue to install a compliant system in blocks of flats it is difficult to achieve without an addressable system.
@@DanstheEngineer it’s not rly flats tho it’s more of a big house it’s east each flat has their zone there is 5 flats and five zones them add one more zone for a communal zone where call points and detectors are in the stairs. It’s more than meeting the standards as I’ve seen this in flats in London with the exact same amount of floors In the building as this place and It meets standards. Twin flex pro is specifically designed for this but okay if that didn’t meet the standards why is an alarm company more than happy and elections more than happy to say it’s meeting the regs and it’s easy to identify with twinflex if a call point smoke detector or heat detector has been activated because it says Sd for fmoke Cp for call point and Hd for heat it also says the exact zone so it’s easier to identify
@@jamesmoore5719 that's 6 cables running through the communal area of the building. An addressable system would be 2 cables. Small addressable panels are low cost plus based on what youve suggested the addressable system would be much less labour intensive. When installing call points, they are to be zoned according to the floor you are leaving. Often this wouldn't be the stairwell, it is the rooms off the stairwell so the design needs to be clear on the setup. I am more for reducing the amount of cabling in escape routes because when there is a fire they can become a hazard for escape and for fire fighters. I'm not suggesting a two wire system cannot be used but I'm responding to your comment about why I would suggest using an addressable system. Another issue with some lower cost non addressable panels is their inability for battery expansion when larger batteries are needed to meet standby requirements. Although the common parts here fall under part 1, LACORS guidance would normally recommend a part 6 system for common parts in converted blocks of flats. If you are required to meet part 6 you are required to have 72 hours standby time.
Yor u or u ok mate
Yor u or u ok Mate Yor u or u ok mate
+Greg Bouchard I'm very well Greg. How about yourself?
Hi Dan you u or u ok mate I hop you or u ok mate I hop you u or u ok mate u or u ok mate I hop you u or u ok mate see good mate to be your friend at we’ll be good to be friends at we’ll be good mate
Hi Dan you or u OK mate you or u OK mate you or u OK mate you form Greg bouchard OK mate bey for now mate
I think you take yourself to seriously. Ive been inspecting for years and haven't heard you question any code what so ever or do you truly think trapping smoke in a cup equals a real life situation? or a battery operated heat tester is the best way of triggering heats.
ditch the man bun.