played like a damn fiddle! | BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER S03E17''Enemies'' REACTION
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- Опубликовано: 24 июн 2021
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This shows one again just how good Sarah, David and Eliza are at acting.
I love the mayor, he's so funny, so old-fashioned. If he wasn't totally evil he'd be swell guy.
Watch How I met your mother
You get the mayor as a hippie step dad
„Did he think he is her FATHER?“ 🤩
If you watch the scene where Buffy and Faith visit the demon apartment, Faith puts her hand behind a wall to turn on a light switch without looking and you can see Buffy notice it. This is the start of her suspicions. When Willow tells Buffy to go and talk to Angel she does and he tells her about Faith confessing to have killed a demon and then coming on to him. This is when they start to plan things.
I'm with you on the first part. From the moment this first aired, I've always been impressed with how Sarah played that moment with Faith and the light switch. I'm not as sure about Angel telling Buffy about Faith's confession, though. My reading, the more obvious trigger for their plans is when, after his meeting with the Mayor, that demon then goes to Giles to tip him off, and as he says, "restore the balance between them." Note that parting "Be careful" from Giles to Buffy--it's because he knows what they're about to do, and is concerned for how it's going to impact her, seeing Angelus again. Even a faux Angelus.
Don't overlook the fact that the shaman or whoever that faked taking Angel's soul, came to Giles to warn him about what he was being tasked to do. It's plausible Buffy, Giles and Angel had planned things out well before they went to the demon's apartment.
Do we know that the mayor contacted the sorcerer before Giles?
I thought another possibility was that Buffy and Giles knew that Faith and the mayor were going to try to turn Angel into Angelus, so Giles brought the sorcerer in who then found a way to involve himself in the mayor's plans.
I guess it's a little more plausible the other way, because Angel, Buffy, and Giles had to find out about the mayor's plans somehow. The sorcerer is one of the simplest explanations.
@@UTU49 They say as much at the end.
@@UTU49 Well the demon selling the books turning up dead with no books is also a simple explanation since as far as they know he only told Faith and Buffy about him having those books so either any one else of the Scoobies was working for the Mayor or some one new (Faith) was. Then you add in the knowledge of the wierdly installed light switch, that Faith instantly knew that the books where gone, that Faith come to Angel on the same night with blood on her hands and so on.
Good observation with the fact that happiness is not about sex. A lot of people think that sex with Buffy cost him his soul but if you look back at surprise it happens right after, just holding her was enough.
Yes. The was already asleep in his arms. I think that was when the moment of pure happiness occurred. He was able to wake up, get dressed, and run out screaming in the curse breaking induced storm.
@@zemoxian you had me then you lost me. Why is the storm part of the curse? Obviously the writers included it at that moment to enhance the drama but as far as the curse is concerned the storms timing is just coincidental.
Maybe the Gods are angry that Angle’s suffering was over? By removing his Soul, Angelus become „innocence“ in a sense - no remorse or guilt to punish him. It’s not a person anymore.
You mean 'just holding her after sex was enough.' It couldn't just be holding her in and of itself, because he's done that before and it never broke the curse.
My point is, yes, it's not just about the sex, but sex _is_ part of the perfect happiness equation.
Well if Y'all recall for a few episodes leading up to them having s*x whenever he was around Buffy he was becoming more lighter where you can see he wasn't his usual torture brooding self like the weight was coming off his shoulders. Then, when they had s*x, it was very intimate between two people being so much in love and just being in that moment together as one. Then after he was just holding her and being in peace and pure moment with Buffy.
So yeah, just sex itself isn't what gives him pure happiness it's being with Buffy that does. They proved that in Angel, when him and Darla had sex and he didn't lose his soul or being with other girls on "Angel," he didn't lose it. The only time it did was through magic.
The reveal in this episode is ICONIC. A true psych-out!
Willow is real BOLD talking about "Faith is exactly the kind of girl who would do that," when she was having an ongoing affair with Xander.
It is understandable she can't appreciate her then she raped Xander, it was not show at screen but everyone knew when she did. Willow is the only one of the Scoobies who didn't try to help Faith but she couldn't then the rape affair
@@alooncnej4696 Actually we don't know if any one knows about that, aka we don't know if Xander or Angel ever told any one else that Faith did more than just trying to kill Xander.
@@Henrik_Holst indeed
The fact she's doing a similar kind of bad thing does not mean she's wrong about Faith. If I kill someone I can still say somebody else is a killer as well,the 2 things are not mutually exclusive!;-P
There is a parallel of Buffy and Giles, and Faith and the Mayor in terms of them being Father figures for their Slayers.
I think the timeline works like this: Faith goes to Angel after killing the demon with blood on her hands, makes her move and Angel shuts her down, Angel is suspicious. Buffy sees what she sees, but says nothing until she sees the murder scene, then she goes to Angel to trade information. At that same time, the Mayor calls on the wizard and he pieces together that he's making a move on the Slayer, and that's how he knows to talk to Giles. That's when Giles, Angel and Buffy formulate their plan.
Buffy is a great judge of character, I think she knew faith was up to something a loong time ago.
Was at least suspicious/wary.
Buffy started to catch on to something being off about Faith, when Faith was able to find the not in line of sight lightswitch without looking, when she'd supposedly never been there before. When Buffy said that whoever killed the demon did so with [whatever she said, I'll have to go back] and Faith defended it (defended herself) with maybe he put up a fight. And then Faith saying that the books weren't there without really looking for them. Before they leave the apartment, you can see the gears moving in Buffy's head trying to process the information. She's not quite there yet, but she's putting the pieces together. Buffy's smarter than people give her credit for. The Shaman may not have known about Giles connection to Angel, but knowing that Giles is a white hat in Sunnydale and the Mayor wanting to take Angels soul, who even if the Shaman did not already know about Angel (though he probably did) The mayor wanting to take away the soul of a unique souled vampire lets you know that Angel is also a good guy, and that this is a big bad move that the White Hat in town that you know and owe a favor to would be interested in stopping.
I like your take on the Shaman's actions. It makes his connection to Giles seem less like a coincidence, and it's a good reminder that, in the Buffyverse, the denizens of the demon world aren't just impersonal forces to be commanded. They're individuals with their own agendas and motivations.
nu nu xander didnt know the plan at all so wen he walked by angel he was like "ANGEL YOU GOTTA FIND BUFFY" and angelous punched him BECUZ angel was still winning faiths trust angel did such a good job playing faith that he gained her trust very quickly AND the mayors too
You can not tell me that Angle not enjoyed punching Xander in that Situation. After all the History they had. 😂
Xander wasn't in on it; the punch was a "shoot". While I'm sure Angel didn't mind getting a free shot in, really he punched Xander out for his protection as much as to maintain his cover; Faith might have done worse
Wouldn't "Angelus" still be maintaining his cover as "Angel" when they encountered Xander?
@@ItsMeBarnaby
Great point.
I consider this to be a moderate-sized writing error.
@@ItsMeBarnaby How would he get to Buffy before Angel and Faith when #1 he was just knocked out and #2 Angel and Faith are on a direct path to Buffy when Angel knocked Xander out.
@@ItsMeBarnaby Just before Angel punches Xander, Xander says "You gotta find Buffy. She's going to her place and stocking up on".
So Angel knows now that Buffy is at home, and that Xander was out trying to find Angel to bring him home to Buffy.
@@UTU49 Angelus is not a good actor,unlike Angel!;-P
I've always figured that the sequence was:
1. The Mayor contacted the shaman/wizard with his plan to de-soul Angel.
2. The shaman/wizard, being a friend of Giles ("I introduced him to his wife." Funniest line of the whole episode!), let him know what was up.
3. Giles, Buffy, and Angel concoct their plan, which includes the shaman/wizard putting on his fake light show to make it look like Angel has had his soul taken again.
Xander definitely didn't know anything about it (Angel gave him a real punch). The others I'm not sure, though I don't believe they told Wes, either. He's not in their trust circle yet.
The only flaw in this view I can see is that The Mayor was so completely unlucky as to hire a wizard who just happened to owe Giles a favor.
the Mayor contactacting that specific creature isn't a flaw. It's a coincidence and not really a very big one as Giles is implied to have had extensive contact with supernatural forces in his younger years.
Imagine if it was another Shaman...
Buffy most likely got clued in that Faith had something to do with demon's death when Faith, supposedly first time in his apartment, instinctively reached for the light switch without even looking for it. As if she was there before. Angel most likely also shared info about his encounter with Faith and they put two and two together on what the intent is. The show did establish beforehand that Faith is kind of easy to read. Then all that was left was for Giles to pre-emptively contact and hire the one person he who can steal Angel's soul before the Mayor does, meaning all that was left was for the guy to be the one who shows up when Mayor is searching for a person to do just that.
Xander was out of the loop because gotta make it real and the less people know the easier it is to sell.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE seeing the reactions from when Angel says "2nd best"
I do too! Though I think Sofie missed what a zinger of a line it was because she was talking during the setup !
Another clue it's not Angelus is he would have killed Xander to torture Buffy.
Bit late but the Wizard knew this was Giles town to went to him because he knew this could effect him. Only Giles, Buffy and Angel knew the plan everyone else including Xander were in the dark.
On rewatch, you can catch a whole bunch of interesting little details.
It makes Angel hitting Xander even funnier.
If you rewatch the episode, you can spot that Buffy's faking it. She's a significantly worse actor than Faith and Angel, and a lot of her reactions to Angelus' supposed return and Faith turning on her are a bit stiff, hinting that she's not actually surprised by the betrayals. Very nice touch.
I hope you mean Buffy as a character is a worse actor than Faith and Angel are as characters, because SMG is the best actor on the show (and that's saying a lot).
@@martinw2235 yes I think he means that :)
@@martinw2235 I mean Buffy the character, yeah. Sarah Michelle Gellar is great, Buffy herself isn't doing a good job of selling what should be horror and betrayal for her. It's actually an excellent performance from Gellar, because she has to play Buffy playing herself and not pulling it off in a way that's visibly distinct from her regular acting, prominent enough to be noticeable and yet not so prominent that it takes you out of the episode or makes it totally unbelievable that Faith bought it. That can't have been easy.
@@Talisguy
Sarah and David both did a fantastic job of balancing their performances so that their performances would look like one thing on first watch, but would look like something else entirely on rewatch. There are a couple of looks that Angel and Buffy exchange that hint that he's not really Angelus.
@@Talisguy that’s a really good analysis of the finer points of the performance. 🙂
You're right on about that moment of happiness not being just about sex. But it's a moment of pure or true happiness. Before it wasn't the sex, but the sex did partially lead to the contendedness afterward. It took a combination of several things to lead to total happiness. So I also feel that just being in love with Buffy alone will also not be a moment of pure happiness. Especially since he has even more guilt now, that's always in the back of his mind along with the fear of a happy moment, that will keep him from reaching that moment.
yeah it's clearly not "the sex" since he turned long after. But the rumour that he lost his soul when he had sex with the Slayer probably got loose in the demon underworld and became "the truth" so that people like the Mayor thinks that is how he lost it and therefore believes that he can make Faith having sex with Angel to have him loose his soul again.
And especially Faith thinks that the fact that she "has skills" regarding sex means she could give him the happiness, because Faith doesn't get the emotional side of it.
@@Logan_Baron Yeah Faith really have no emotional connection with sex at all.
edit: changed my first comment since I used an idiom that I later found out that where not properly translated to English.
my take has always been the wizard dude thought taking Angel's soul away was problematic and thought maybe he should look up his old friend Giles to see what Giles thought of this...and/or warn him that "a very dark power" was about to rise in Sunnydale. and that's how Giles and the rest of the Scoobys find out about it and make the plot to trick Faith
I mean... it's more likely the mayor or Faith informed the "wizard dude" of Angel's association with Giles and Buffy during the planning of the soul removal.
17:10 yup thats how we all feel with this show haha
Jajaja si, tienes razón, la misma expresión tuve en muchos capítulos, no es una serie predecible, me gusta.
RUclips, please tell me when Sofie uploads. We've talked about this. lol.
a reactor who understand "the true happiness " this early is rare...indeed he could have 6, but it is when he let go of everything bad the demon did and you can say perfect bliss that he lose the soul. Angel did not lose his soul because he had 6 with buffy, but because he reached perfect happiness with buffy after they had 6 and no, it was not his orgasm lol...it was after, he felt perfectly content and BAAAM, soul was yanked out
Did...did you just substitute the word sex with the number 6?
FFS, how repressed can you be?
@@dogstar75 youtube have put me on a list so if I use certain words my entire posts get wiped, 6 with the letters "S" plus "E" plus "X" is one of the words that will autodelete everything i have written about 5 seconds after i posted it so I have to adapt so I can avoid the fascist "G" plus "E" plus "S" plus "T" plus "A" plus "P" plus "O" youtube censor
@@Belnick6666 lol, i can only imagine how fucked up your comment activity must have been to be put on a watch list. Hahahaha.
@@dogstar75 actually just using the f-word too much or in certain combinations with other words can get you listed so you might want to be careful with that. Also the auto censor algorithm is so poorly implemented that it can misconstrue benign comments as inflammatory. It probs just listed me for using the word inflammatory.
@@aperson4640 That's true I once literally just copied what somebody said to somebody else and then commented on it thinking it was inappropriate and I'm not even kidding RUclips decided that was me saying someone was not well smart and asked me if I wanted to reconsider. RUclips is scary. I was just saying on a video about censorship that RUclips will let s ex/violence, even pedo s on their child friendly version but you show adult content to adults only, say the f word to adults only and you can get flagged. And that's the generous side of their censorship.
Not everything is explained in this episode by the storyteller. It allows a complex act to be completed in one episode. Joss Whedon's team are amazing storytellers.
Yes the Slayer line runs through Faith now, since Buffy's death already called her replacement. This has been confirmed by background from the writers. However people in universe may not know the exact way things work, or may not be sure. At best they would THINK that Buffy dying would not bring a new Slayer, but could not actually be sure unless it happens, since the even having 2 Slayers is a new and unexpected development. The council likely does not even know, and can only make assumptions. But we can consider that the Mayor and most others don't even have that little bit of understanding of how it would work. I mean even Giles didn't realize a new Slayer would be called by Buffy's temporary death until it happened.
"2nd best"
Gutsy assertion Boreanez.
Faith is such an awesome character, complex. Sad for Buffy and Angel who tried to help her but she did things in a wrong way. But not that bad didn't she ? She is alone and doesn't have that Buffy has.
The Wizard told Giles, that is when they found out about Faith
It is also possible that after Faith's attempt to seduce Angel, which Buffy saw, and having her suspicious after the light switch incident, she talked to Giles and they came to the conclusion that Faith is using Angel, and there is only really one thing he can be useful for- his soulles alter ego. Maybe they contacted the shaman first?
For those of you at the end of Becoming who are always like "the real tragedy is Angel went to hell, not Angelus 😭😭" - Angel proves here that indeed "Angelus" of course went to hell too. Angel (acting as Angelus) to Buffy: "You know, I never did thank you for sending me to hell."
That makes no sense, it's Angel talking here and not Angelous. That was just one of the small clues that the writers left in for you to catch in a rewatch to see that it's really Angel talking.
@@Henrik_Holst You misread. Yes, it's Angel pretending to be Angelus and what Angelus would say. Therefore, Angel knows/confirms that Angelus went to Hell. People always whine about Angel being sent to hell and not Angelus. Well, textual, we have confirmation that of course Angelus went to hell too. And Angel knows it, because they are one in the same.
@@spikesecho724 Nah I disagree, Angel does not know what Angelous might have experienced. IMHO I reiterate, this is just one small clue left in by the writes to let rewatchers know that it's Angel playing Angelous and not the real Angelous.
@@Henrik_Holst Sorry dude, "Angelus" is just Angel without a soul. He's not a separate personality. It's one being, either having his conscience/morality, or being stripped of it. They go by the same name, they have the same interests and personality. The only thing thats different is the presence or absence of a conscience.
@@spikesecho724 That have been under hard debate for 24 years without any form of conclusion ;-)
Note that Angel didn't actually *need* to punch Xander - Faith had already bought the act, so Angel could have just "pretended to be Angel" and gotten out of the situation. He had to have KO'd Xander because he wanted to.
If it wasn't for the fact that he had no possible way of knowing about Xander's "kick his ass" lie from last season, I'd be tempted to call it revenge. But apparently he just felt like decking Xander because of their past animosity.
Lol, he risked turning into Angelus for real, due to “perfect happiness” (punching Xander).
Or Angel feared that Xander might want to tag along to Buffy and since that would complicate things he simple took Xander out of the picture.
I just couldn't help laughing about your reaction, that's awesome!!Hey yeah, you've been played too 😆 oh my, love this show so much!!
It feels nice to have Angelus back because David was way better at playing Angelus than a compelling Angel at this point in the Buffyverse. :D
Xander did not know about the plan, that is why he said what he said at the end about getting hit by Angel
gosh im sorry i hope this isnt spoiler for this epi but heres my theory... giles ALLready knew the shamin that the mayor contacted to steal angels soul NOW wen the shamin had lerned wat they mayor wanted him to do i think the shamin contacted giles and giles came up with the plan to play faith
Not defending Faith, she's in the wrong, to go to the evil side of course. But I do understand where she's coming from and how she got here. From the things she talks about from her childhood, she had a terrible life and never really had anything. Then *Poof* superpowers. She's somebody. She's powerful. Then she's still overshadowed by Buffy. She should have had something that was finally hers. And even by the watchers and scoobies, she's still seen as the side act. She should have had the whole Slayer deal and she doesn't even get considered as co-captain. Now of course she's not in the right, because Buffy has actually had to pay the price for her powers more times over, but Faith doesn't understand that.
Faith also paid the price for her destiny. She witnessed her first watcher, someone she presumable had a positive mentor mentee relationship with, gruesomely murdered in front of her. She just couldn't process it as well as Buffy did without a close friend group for support.
@@aperson4640 And that our second watcher manipulated her and isolated her from her new group. Frankly none of the adults in the system especially the next two watchers stepped in at all.
@@aperson4640 Buffy experienced the same with her first watcher who committed suicide to prevent Lothos from siring him and using him against Buffy. This is the "hidden" explanation why Buffy is so reluctant to carry the slayer mantle during season one.
@@aperson4640 Yeah, it's not that Faith hasn't paid her prices too. Just me seeing from Faith's view. Faith doesn't see that Buffy didn't have it easy. For Faith it was her time, but no it's all Buffy, AND to Faith Buffy had it easy her whole life. To Faith she'd had a hard life and FINALLY had a win, and then someone else who in her eyes never had to struggle steps up and takes the prize instead. Switching to the other team, she can be the important one now.
@Henrik_Holst I do wish the writers had Buffy talked about her 1st watcher from back in L.A especially with Faith. But nope she never talked about him.
And as I was watching your reaction to this I was just waiting for you to see the big reveal. :-)
Angelous is one of the best/sceary/sexy bad guys in any show ever....any time they show angelous im on the edge of my seat david really changes so much it feels like a driffrent person even with out the vampire make up he looks totaly diffrent PLUS ANGEL BBABY IN EYE LINER just looks amaizng xD OH POOR SWEET BAE-NGEL
Willow has a lot of nerve as a cheater to say about Faith that Faith is "the do that girl."
I never believed the light switch theory of Buffy seeing Faith know where the light switch was in the demon's apartment. I don't see that as a definite excuse to know she works for the Mayor. I think it's far more likely that the Sorcerer contacted Giles after The Mayor contacted the Sorcerer (they hadn't met in person yet) and after Giles, Angel, Buffy, and the Sorcerer worked a plan things out, the Sorcerer met up in person with The Mayor.
It's not the definitive excuse but it's one of lots of smaller circumstances that triggers Buffy:s street smart. First we have a dead demon and the books gone when the only people that knew that he had those specific books where the scoobies so high chance that the Mayor got it from some one in the group. Second is Faith coming to Angel in the middle of the night with blood on her hands, third her lame seduction attempt of Angel when she well know they story told (the rumour among people is that it was sex that made Angel loose his soul, we know that it wasn't but that is how other people in the show think it happened), forth is Faith knowing the placement of the strangely places light switch, fifth is Faith instantly knowing that the books are gone and her reacting the way she does when Buffy claims that some one where having fun (Faith would normally not loose it like that in a scene like this). Add to that that Buffy have been somewhat suspicions of Faith ever since she accidentally killed the deputy Mayor and all the stuff that happened then.
@@Henrik_Holst That, combined with the Sorcerer coming to Giles makes more sense, but any one of those things individually doesn't work.
Slowly catching up on your reacts but your insight you catch on so fast with whats going on under the surface
I feel like he let Angelus loose a bit versus just pretending to be him. Otherwise this is too cruel for me.
18:07 I mean, it's literally being explained in the part you're watching when you asked this question. The shaman or whatever or whoever he is, that the Mayor brought in to take Angel's soul, knew Giles and was indebted to him for introducing him to his wife. He then gave Giles advanced warning; and ostensibly this lead to Giles, Buffy and Angel cooking up their plan and agreeing on the code word Angel would use when the plan was on - Angel calling Buffy "Buff." This would clue her in that whatever he did or said afterwards was an act, and to go with it.
I'm so sorry for that poor demon!🥺
14:51 - 15:32 All very true 🤎...still...she pisses me off enough when she's messing with my Bangel 🖤💛 this way!X-[
16:39 - 17:02 😎🤣🖤💛
17:44 - 18:01🤎💛💋
18:14 - 18:17 😂💘
19:05 - 19:08 Aaaawww...!!!!🥺🥺19:09 - 19:14 Can I offically adopt THIS"Always"to replace Snape's one since I *HATE* that guy?!?!
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@16:39
Why does it feel so good to see Angelus again? You ask. It's because you like to see Faith take a beating. Or at least for Xander to take a hit.
No one in show seems to understand that it's love rather than sex that caused the perfect happiness moment for Angel. Not sure it has been said explicitly at this point.
I loved your reaction to the twist.
We don't know what the start was. Was Buffy faking out willow by playing jealous of Faith or did Buffy know what was going on but want Willow to believe she was worried about Faith/Angel for some reason. What was the plan here. Buffy complain to willow, Willow gossip and Faith finds out Buffy is worried about her man.
Did Giles get the wizard to advertise soul removal spells. Did the wizard contact Giles after the Mayor contacted him.
Did Xander know at any stage what was going on. Personally I felt that Xander didn't know til very late what was going on. Did Wesley or Willow.
Was this Buffy Angel Giles running an op on their own.
"Was this Buffy Angel Giles running an op on their own."
I think that's the simplest explanation.
As for the other details, I agree that there are a couple possibilities.
When Buffy/Angel/Giles work in isolation from the others, they go by the name "Team BAG".
@@UTU49 lol at team BAG.
This episode is such a cheat. It depends almost entirely on audience misdirection.
It does, but at least every misdirect is justified narratively. There are no elements that are just there to misdirect the audience, unlike in some other episodes.
I think my favorite part is Angel...not Angelus...punching Xander. "That guy just bugs me."
Thank Angel for punching Alex. So deserved. Another amazing performance by Sarah David and Elisa. Great threasome !
Ok, so here's the thing. Angel didn't PRETEND to be Angelus. He just released the leash on Angelus just the tiny bit, letting the demon have the driver's seat for a few hours. Buffy, being smart, recognized that, and it drove her inner creepometer off the charts. That's why Angel let her be. Inside, Angel himself kind of enjoyed the Buffy-Faith sindig, I bet.... Because 1. Cat fight, and 2. Buffy stood her ground like a badass. That's what I believe the smile was for.
Housekeeping: Sophie, please lose the editorial improvisation at the beginning of your header. It wastes valuable informational space. I know that some other reactors are doing it, but, on balance, it's a bad idea. Episode title and/or episode number are more important. You're not teasing the evening news here. Best. Leo.
I don't think the headlines are a bad idea. People are mainly finding individual episodes through the Search function or her playlist
Your right about optimizing for search engines. The editorial content ("played like a damn fiddle!") is less useful. Best. Mike.@@TheRulesLawyerRPG