TWiV 681: Crowley, coats, and cross-reactive antibodies
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Daniel Griffin provides a clinical report on COVID-19, Kathleen Crowley explains the role of Environmental Health & Safety departments, update on SARS-CoV-2 transmission in farmed mink, and the presence of pre-existing antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in unexposed individuals.
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One of these days, I'm going to write a letter to TWiV and thank them for being a part of my life for all of these years.
In between all the Chiropractor Covid Channels and plain false information channels, I am glad I found this incredible channel. thank you for sharing your insight
I work for a University research lab and got a query from a university office about my available ultra-low storage space for vaccine storage. It looks like overflow storage space is being sought anywhere they can find secure storage.
Grateful for Dr Griffin's explanation of how the efficacy calculation is done in a vaccine trial. Very simply explained for my sleep deprived brain.
OMG " If a stoat falls into a moat, will it float?" I needed that.
I am so glad you have Brianne on this show. She is so knowledgeable and only speaks when she has something important to contribute.
This podcast hooked me after buying a book about viruses written by Vincent over a decade ago. Still my favorite podcast.
Excellent clinical review by Daniel Griffin with an optimistic view on monoclonal antibody therapy and forthcoming vaccines.
Oh my I stink at Twitter. I went to find Dr. Griffin’s vaccine vid and somehow ended up on MySpace... now I’m confused about what year this is.
We love you twiv. Keep up the good job!
I didn’t discover twiv until Sept 2021. I’ve been an avid listener since. I was even lucky enough to attend twiv 1000 live in NY
It’s really fun going back to these old eps. I like thinking about where we were as a planet and what I was doing during each part of the pandemic
Hindsight is fun
Dr. Vincent I have been following you and I am sure many many others from coursera times. Also I have been following up ever since principles of virology 3rd edition.
You have been up not because of the pandemic, but rather because not enough attention has been given to viruses and infectious diseases. We just naturally went back to our professors and tutors in hard times.
Nice to see a shoutout to our Biosafety Officers, without whom none of this research would be possible.
Delightful, EHS explanation, another important aspect of lab and research safety. Science education and future changes in our environment that provides options for space, air flow, zoom tech, and comfort will keep us healthier when past, present and future infectious viruses, bacteria, and diseases appear or reappear. We are changing and finding out the need for life sake to make safety a priority. Also, thanks for explaining the differences between infectious virus, disease, and sterilizing immunity in relation to vaccines.
When the R rate was held down by good behavior people developed the false feeling that the virus was not as bad as scientists and the media were reporting. A second problem is folks have a hard time emotionally taking in the reality that people who love you can make you sick.
@Mr. T stamping your little foot and flouncing around in a tizzy won't invalidate the facts, it just showed the utter weakness of your argument and temps people to ask if you missed your afternoon nap today.
I did look at episode 666 (omen?). Fascinating! I would love to hear the biophysicist from that episode come back and explain about why the higher energy light is safer than the lower energy light. It seems counter intuitive. The properties of the human skin layer seem more complex with regard to light energies than I would have imagined. I found a website in Utah with some diagrams but I would really be interested in more details.
Thanks for this series. I have been following since the early days of podcast only, off and on, depending on software issues, drive failures, lost addresses, etc. Mostly on. My field is physics but I did a lot of reading in biophysics, virus crystallization, etc and I would have pursued that if my university had not had such a strict policy at the time of not combining departments for doctoral research. Alas.
I think the reverse issue with the crossreactive antibodies is that a lot of assumptions were made early on because of the antibody surveys that were almost certainly picking up on cold coronaviruses. As far as I know, not a single antibody COVID test on the market went through the rigorous set of challenges a proper test should go through to be qualified, regarding virus cross reactions or manufacturing reliably.
Thank you.
Are researchers planning to follow those with mild cases of covid to see if they have health issues possibly years from now? I am curious to find out how many health conditions like heart disease, diabetes or others might be caused by a past viral infection.
It's primarily a mammal virus, but has anyone been testing birds on a regular basis? According to the CDC, it didn't even spread to dogs and cats at one point until the tigers got sick.
I would assume that domesticated animal populations get tested fairly regularly. Especially when they start to get sick.
@@tamaryellin7043 NOT parrots!
Here's another way to look at it, in case anyone is having a problem figuring it out. Restaurants are open for 17 hours a day, mostly during the time that people would be going to them..
Been a listener 6 months, but need to regress. I live in Vancouver Canada, & our surge spike whatever, is on exponentially. Yet half of folks can’t count to 2, as in Canuck meters. Same half mostly no masks. Another demographic, those on the street with their head stuck in their cell phone, blocking high traffic areas or even walking without looking. I know enough to make me so frustrated, thx team TWIV,. Be safe everyone, as best you can. Gtg find a boat to SE Asia or somewhere serious.
At 2 hr 3 mins and a bit they talk about not knowing if the animal was a stoat or a weasel. I thought these people were clever. They obviously don't know that a weasel is weasily wecognised and a stoat is stoatally different.
2:13:50 I'd hope we learned something from BSE about the correct way to handle this.
Re Dr. Crowley's comments at 1:32:15, I find myself thinking this on a daily basis. 100% this. I think eventually we will get "back to normal" but hopefully we will get some great practices out of this to help prevent future outbreaks.
Adults living with children have less severe COVID-19 symptoms. Crossimmunity is real and not only helped children but also Asia and Africa (they also showed T-cell and antibodies against COVID-19 without previous exposure)
@@victor_venema here it one of dozens: www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.01.20222315v1
@@JenniB123 it showed that living with children "was associated with reduced risk of COVID-19 death"
But why doesn't it do anything if you're over 65 and living with children? It sounds more like the research findings is a result of a side phenomenon where healthy people are more successful at mating...so they live with young children by chance.
An important feature of Sars2 induced hyperimmunity is T-Cell exhaustion.
Vincent, you asked why we lose these antibodies as we age? Does it have to do with our circulating vitamin d levels?
you can weasiiy tell a stoat from a weasel because a stoat is stoatally different (my dad's favourite joke)
Thank you much
Count views on RUclips too. We count. I'd rather see y'all than listen on my podcast thingy.
Vincent should contact the people doing that antigen study in Denmark. You can`t expect everyone to have as good an understanding of virology as you.
Thank you very much. i have yet to finish the long covid episode and immuno and pfizer vaccine short one. it is becoming a work to be updated!! ;)
2:27:25 The conversation towards the end regarding children and young adults possibly having cross-immunity has me wondering about older adults who have had lots of exposure to their grandkids (say, the grandparents being the adult children's primary babysitters for the grandkids)and the associated viral infections. I'm wondering if that helps the grandparents regarding SARS-CoV-2. I inwardly cringe every time I see Facebook posts from my father's girlfriend of her grandkids in playing in her house, wearing no masks. My sister, a nurse reminds them constantly.
I looked after my grandson from his first to third birthdays, collecting him one day a week from his nursery at lunchtime, and spending the afternoon with him until 11th March 2020, just before the first Covid-19 wave took hold in the UK. Every virus he presumably picked up from his peers at nursery, summer, and winter, over those 2 years, I contracted too. Funnily enough, I had Covid-19, very mildly, starting 12 days after last seeing my grandson and family, on the first day of the first UK lockdown, 23rd March. I wonder if cross reactivity from a "human coronavirus common cold" from the slew of nursery-transmitted colds my grandson passed on to me in those two years gave me the ability to avoid a more severe Covid-19 infection, being male, blood group A, and 67 years old, and thus susceptible to potentially severe disease?
Does anyone know how much time passes between negative rapid test up to the point the person is (highly) infectious ? Could one test people just before entering the plane and be safe for the two hours in close proximity ?
@@victor_venema Well, you're still in a plane with other people so safety is relative. But I asked for the time between negative rapid test and being infectious ...
@@jkgermany2182 The incubation period is 2 - 10 days, with a mean of 5.2 days. Max infection rate is about 1 day before symptoms. Detection of infection is likely to be about one day before that (using a rapid test, using RT/PCR you could get infected waiting or the results).
A negative test buys one day.
Flying in the aircraft is not the an issue, the airflow in the aircraft is good; the main problem is crowding at the airport.
My advice is not to travel by air on commercial flights until 2022.
@Marcus G Knight Exactly, I asked for the criticial point on that curve. But thanks !
@@christopherrobinson7541 Thanks ! No worries - I won't be travelling by plane any time soon. I wondered if there is any way to save commercial air travel and was unsure about the rapid tests.
Talk to Michael Mina. TWiV 640: Test often, fast turnaround, with Michael Mina
Stoats are not weasels! They are weasily distinguished because they are stoatally different!
Perfect quote😢
Only Vinnie would reference Zappa. Too funny.
why are some animals not infectable, is this related to ACE2 receptor?
So I take it that the mink problem is not limited to Denmark. The idea is that minks are an infectable species. In every country with mink farms workers pass the virus to minks. And then the virus adapts itself to minks in the same fashion in every country.
Minks are intensively reared. Many cages adjacent to each other, in enclosed warehouses with controlled environment for optimum fur coat growth, presumably chilled, with human worker access between rows of back to back cages. I guess the mink are fed on animal meat products not fit for human consumption. Like other farming, work is part feeding and watering, part clearing away waste products, part breeding new stock, and part harvesting the product. I do not know if the non-saleable (non-fur) remains re-enter the mink food chain.
How do you tell the difference between a weasel and a stoat ?
A weasel is weaselly identified and a stoat is stoatally different. :)
I think about this a lot. I live in a small town in Britush Columbia, and the thought keeps plaguing me: "What if I got the virus?" Do the medical people here even know what the latest thoughts are about when to use which treatment? Do they even have these medications on hand? I do not have much faith that they do, even after all these months.
I live in Alaska. I wear a mask whenever I'm in a store or near people not in my immediate small bubble. I've got Purrell in my truck and I use it before I put my mask on. All you can do is be careful. Even if you got sick in LA you could be one of the unlucky ones or maybe live but be a long hauler. Hope we make it healthy through the winter.
At least we've got access to this awesome podcast. These folks are the best of the best.
@@solarwind907 I have n95's that I got in March, and I only go out for groceries. I wear disposable gloves as well. Stay safe!
Low vitD level are related with rikets.
One symptom are low muscular tonus.
Low muscular tonus can decrease capacity of thermogenesis especially at night.
If SARS COV2 better replicate at low tissue temperature see at TWiV 659 at min29 what Christian Drosten indicate.,may be, high body temperature are the main protective factor against SARS COV2 infection? especially high mucoseal respiratory temperature .
Dispneea secondary to heart diseases ,diabetic acidosis can ,,theoretically,,decrease mucoseal respiratory temperature.
Please allow her to talk.
What are those risk factors 12-17 ?
From the US FDA Fact Sheet for Health Providers:
o BMI ≥85th percentile for their age and gender based on CDC growth charts, OR
o sickle cell disease, OR
o congenital or acquired heart disease, OR
o neurodevelopmental disorders, for example, cerebral palsy, OR
o a medical-related technological dependence, for example, tracheostomy,
gastrostomy, or positive pressure ventilation (not related to COVID-19),
OR o asthma, reactive airway or other chronic respiratory disease that requires
daily medication for control.
@@theresagogold7150 Thank you so much ! It means my daughter's extremely rare health troubles do not show up as risk factors ... (yet). No nephrological problems at all. Interesting ( and comforting).
Some friends have their high risk daughter and her cat coming home next month. I love the thought of testing for infectivity before they meet. But shouldn’t the cat also be tested for infectivity with the 15 minute test?
ps ... glad I found your very informative channel. I’ve been tracking youtube info sources on this virus since before the Wuhan lockdown.
I would like to see comparison study between "bam-bam" and ivermectin in both attrition of viral replication and symptomatology when given during the viral replication stage.
Susan Woodward. What is bam-bam?
@@earthangel2524 bamlanivimab
@@earthangel2524 26:50 see Dr. Griffin talk about this: Bamlanivimab - Eli Lilly's new drug said to reduce hospitalizations when given early in infection during viral replication phase, outpatient-only. Exactly when Ivermectin is most effective, and much cheaper. Don't know side-effect risks or method of action.
@@susanwoodward7485 Here's Dr.Been's update on Ivermectin studies.ruclips.net/video/V4fEBK1inj4/видео.html.As a parasitologist I think Dr. Griffin would be familiar with Ivermectin safety.It has long track record of massive worming use worldwide. Surely it has more safety data behind it than any newly patented product like bambom. IMO time to unleash all safe AGGRESSIVE OUTPATIENT TREATMENTS in 2020. My understanding is the FDA is blocking Ivermectin scripts.
@@earthangel2524 Of course, Dr. Griffin is familiar w/ Ivermectin, which is why I brought this up, and he should be commenting on the comparison in effectivity between the two. Am a long-time watcher of Dr. Been, who, as you know is highly experienced in the positive treatment benefits of both Ivermectin and HCQ/zinc/etc. protocols in COVID 19. And yes, the FDA is blocking Ivermectin usage in COVID-19, thereby being accessory to its increased spread, morbidity and mortality - accessory to murder in my book - strong, but true statement.
Are we optimistic or delusional?
as long as we are willing to change your mind with new evidence we will not be delusional. hundreds of thousands will die and had died in this pandemic. being optimistic and complying with public health recommendation (regardless of politics) will only show that you are a nice healthy minded person, but if we are complying with the public health and hoping for an optimistic future regardless that is just an *%@#&
Laurence Welsh. We are suckers for marketing propaganda. Reporting on Big Pharma media releases instead of actual data is irresponsible. The Devil is in the details.
These folks have the expertise and they read the research as soon as it's available. I'd call theirs realistic optimism. They basically said it's going to get worse before it gets better but the monoclonals, vaccines and hopefully some leadership at the federal level are on the way. That's cause for cautious optimism imo.
The 10 pm rule is statistical. You reduce the risk from a statistical point of view, in theory.... in practice we have had this measure in France for weeks, and we ended up in a new lockdown.... so cross fingers if that works for you in the USA...
Starts with intubation?
Gonna look for milder material
It's worth listening to. These guys are the best. However these aren't happy times. : (
Can you have a discussion about what is so different with this years virus than all other viruses in the world ever?
This is TWIV #681. Meaning they've had 680 episodes before this. They've already discussed a lot of viruses! If you go to microbe.tv/twiv and look through the show notes you might find a reference to them explaining it in one of this years episodes.
Your best bet might be to just wikipedia the known symptoms of this disease COVID 19 and compare it to other viruses you're interested in and see how it differs.
@@solarwind907 so you mean that is not of interest these days?
I do agree they definitely discussed that many times already. I would like to have only one clip about that. To shear with others that not follow virology this closely.
If SARS COV2 better replicate at very low tissue temperature,may be ,,mask wearing,,work also by increasing upper respiratory temperature?
At TWiV 659 at min29 Christian Drosten suggest that SARS COV2 better replicate at very low tissue temperature.
Have elderly lower lung temperature?
What medication can decrease lung temperature?
Theoretically that can increase rysk of Covid19,If SARS COV2 better replicate at very low tissue temperature and If ,,low temperature agglutinine,, occur after SARS COV2 infection.
Even erytocite agregate at low blood temperature If globuline level increase
Eritrocite aggregation at low blood temperature, like rolling coins, theoretically , diminish capillary flow.
Not everyone has income when lockdown happens. Why are you not ever mentioning ultraviolet light fixtures for things like central air circulation in places with shared air between apartments, places of business, etc. That would really help in cold weather when people are indoors a lot. Ultraviolet light fixtures work a lot better than masks and most hand sanitizers being sold or distributed.
As I remember, this was discussed in a previous episode.
@@tfoxen7518 Sorry I must have missed it. Still I think it should be mentioned more often as we head into winter and more indoor spaces and with cases rising in places with less sunlight like NY and other Northern latitude areas. It is a big issue in the UK where air circulation in buildings is not as well done according to some of the docs there - and they seem unaware of the way modern UV can be hidden in lighting fixtures near entrances and air circulation systems. The big advantage is that, unlike a vaccine, it would also minimize regular influenza and bacterial infections as well. Here in Sedona the restaurants that want indoor customers have UV fixtures.
check this out when you get a chance. TWiV 666: A far-UVC light bulb went off for David Brenner
FWIW I also think that HEPA filter units, air cleaners, could help.
@@JK-ff6zc Good points.
From what I had studied, usage of the lights, less the ones in circulation systems, are safe to use at a timing when individuals are not present in the rooms/spaces. Disinfectant properties applied between occupancy.
Also, I had read that certain materials, such as a porous plastic, can become damaged by the light whereas they should be covered. I am not an expert, and was researching for personal business use.
I lean towards supporting the efficiency in circulation use. Haven't looked at literature which may have recently become available.
@@tfoxen7518 They are also safe when hidden in light fixtures - the kind shielded from direct view and at certain wattages. They also significantly decrease things like mold and legionairres disease in circulation systems. Also used for water purification and water seems to be mostly neglected as a carrier for CoVid - but it does survive in water, plumbing, etc. A local university uses its presence in sewage water to gauge the spread of CoVid in areas of the city.
in Denmark you isent alout to skin sick deer so dtey is just kild an then ether bernd or berrid
You speak english much better than I speak Danish. I think you are saying "in Denmark, you are not allowed to skin sick deer so they are killed and either burned or buried." My apology if I'm misquoting you. Thanks
Frank zappa " tengo una MINKia tanta" but it is not about minks.. but about some very graphic contents
Physicians are poorly educated as a group, (classical studies). They are trained to memorize fragmented and quickly outdated information. Rather sad. I've been surrounded by numerous medical professionals, actually had to routinely proofread nearly incoherent correspondence.
Ooff you guys have really started talking down to your audience. Most people watching TwiV aren't simpletons, you need to dumb things down so severely. We know how masks work and simple math.
There are talking to the trolls: simple and clear arguments. I also appreciate the simple statement that I can use to convince family and friends of the importance of wearing masks.
@@kaegan9698 "simple statement that I can use to convince family and friends of the importance of wearing masks." The following is not a simple statement, but I consider it a relatively simple argument for the wearing of masks, distancing, and so forth.
What are the anti-maskers expecting? A miracle? That this virus will suddenly stop doing what viruses do? Come on now. It's a virus new to the immune systems of the vast majority of the population. If people don't adopt protective measures in bars, restaurants, subways, buses, poorly ventilated indoor areas, and so on, they will be infected. In the tens of thousands. Simple. And then they will take it home to the elderly and other vulnerable people who may become seriously ill or die. Just like those tens of thousands who have suffered and died already. And of those who don't die, about 40% will suffer debilitating "long hauler" symptoms for 12 weeks or more.
Governments are responsible for the well-being of all citizens. It is part of their job. They can't just stand by and watch thousands of vulnerable people, like the elderly and otherwise vulnerable, get sick and die. So, what are they supposed to do when so many refuse to practice the recommended measures? Please don't misunderstand. I don't think the government is blameless in all of this. In fact, they've fallen flat on their face in terms of leadership. But do we really need to be given personalized instructions for how to put on a mask and keep safe distances apart? How about some personal responsibility? Now that the virus is everywhere, damaging lockdowns would not be needed if there were universal mask wearing and a contact tracing system were adopted, as they've done in Japan and some other Asian countries. Those countries seem to be doing quite well. So in the end the people get to choose. Will it be masks and distancing and contact tracing and an opened up economy, or will it be draconian mandates?
They're getting ready for the Dark Winter!
How are you going to dance around natural immunity versus vaccine immunity.... can we agree both are protective!!....but too what extent - I do hope you walk this tight rope with honesty!! If a vast majority of those naturally infected don't get sick when re exposed will you come clean about it?? lol
Is Dr G serious? He moans about having to put ONE person on a vent! How can he compare that to the true pandemic in the spring.
It sucks when you have to do that with a patient, the doctors & nurses probably feel like they didn't do enough to prevent that from happening.
You are moaning because a doctor cares about his patient!!!!!! He is not responsible for the pandemic. He is responsible for the medical care of this ONE patient. If you were THIS patient I bet you would be happy that he cares. What have you done to save those affected by this pandemic??? I bet nothing like as much as Dr Daniel Griffin. Stop your own moaning
@@JenniB123 Maybe I could have expressed myself better, but we agree that it's very difficult for a doctor or a nurse to lose a patient, or have to place them on something like a mechanical ventilator. That's what I tried to say. I have the utmost respect for Dr. Griffin.
@@immortaltyger1569 My reply was to the original poster (p web). I didn't think your reply was moaning! I am not sure why the persons name you are replying to doesn't show up sometimes (like it has now when I am replying to you)
@@immortaltyger1569 as a nurse I know that each individual patient counts (not that I work in ICU)