Wait if spirituality, personality and change are the key to bend, could this mean that the most spiritual and open to change person in the avatar world could bend not only energy, but time itself like the lion turtles?
Hello Future Me - I will not be using examples from Avatar The Last Airbender Also Hello Future Me - I will be using Avatar Legend of Korra as an example instead
The Legend of Korra example actually wasn't in the script till the last minute review, which is why the audio sound slightly different. The video read as a little disjointed without an example to compound the point, and I little time, so it had to do. ~ Tim
Hello Future Me this was actually expanded on in one of the korra comics were trying to implement an election in one of the villages of the earth kingdom and the only two people running were the same upper that was running things before
Hell, I don't write and these videos just gives a visual perspective of how society has been and always will be functioning. It's great & shameful at the same time
i dont write i just worldbuild to have an excuse to be interested in the most mundane aspects of anything ever, hell history is boring as shit if you just remember it as a bunch of names and dates and things that happened so you can write about it for a test
@@Crosshill that's why you dig for the absolutely absurd tidbits that bow your mind. My fave example is the Dutch Naval fleet captured by a French cavalry charge during The 1790's
It's strange how historically well informed, and relatively unbiased, these videos are despite being about worldbuilding. Usually with worldbuilding, you have individuals who aren't able to go into depth about many topics in order to cover a myriad of aspects but the research that goes into these videos is quite impressive.
History is about as realistic as you can get. If you draw inspiration from it, the setting is probably gonna end up more realistic. Plus, you kinda need examples because CLASS SYSTEMS ARE COMPLICATED!!!
@ Rets Rational, exactly. The whole Hello Future Me channel is a huge inspiratin source for me. Tim either knows what I want to know more of, or he knows what I don't know I want to know more of.
I think Dragon Age did showed how complicated it would be. Granted said wizards are powered by blood, and persecution tends to be "tit-for-tat" (even its own Christianity was formed by a woman martyred by wizard persecution of normal people). And DnD had Thay and Halruaa, former relying on slaves descended from Isekai-ed Babylonians and Egyptians (not joking, Forgotten Realms had civilizations teleported from real world) and Halruaa had everyone using magic--be it arcane by birth or divine by learning.
Ooooh okay. I was wondering, because Skyrim didn't have a fighters guild, and oblivion's fighters guild doesn't really cover that aspect. I've never played Morrowind, so I presume that's where these themes arise.
"Lower classes or less advanced civilizations lack health care ... and often an inability to self isolate." I think my nation was just subtweeted, which is fair, we deserve it.
@@sdprz7893 Implying that the US has a good health care system??? As one of the countries having the WORST time with the virus, I think you have completely missed the point here.
In fairness, there isn't always such a hard line between the 'idealistic' and 'real' causes. When you say 'we want improved material conditions like enough food', and you say 'we want equality/justice', often that means the same thing!
"imagine if millennials could no longer buy a house." *Do you hear the people sing? Singing the songs of angry men? It is the music of the people who will not be slaves again! When the beating of your heart echoes the beating of the drums, there is a life about to start when tomorrow comes!*
Interesting times lay ahead folks. Whoever though history was over need only to be acutely aware of the happenings of this year to know that's no longer the case.
_Arise! ye prisoners of starvation!_ _Arise! ye wretched of the Earth!_ _For Justice thunders condemnation,_ _A better world's in birth!_ _No more tradition's chains shall bind us!_ _Arise! you slaves, no more in thrall!_ _The Earth shall rise on new foundations!_ _We have been naught, we shall be all!_
One thing you didn't mention in the war section is about how (in modern style wars at least) the soldiers returning from wars from a suppressed class can have an increased sense of confidence in themselves, and the skills they needed to learn during war can often translate quite well to trying to gain higher status for themselves, both violently and through more peaceful means. Actually, not just soldiers either. After both world wars there was a surge in activism in the United States for civil rights for both African Americans and women, influenced by opportunities and experiences from during the wars. I don't know as many details for other countries, but I'm assuming similar campaigns happened elsewhere.
Well in a way he did but not directly. He said that social tensions often goes on hold during a war but comes back with a vengeance after. Most likely fueled by what you mentioned but I don’t think it only fits in modern times but also before.
@@Johode97 Whoops, I thought I'd said he kinda skirted around that, but that must have been a different comment, or it got deleted during my editing. Also, I agree that it isn't something exclusive to modern war, but it does require a situation where you have to conscript people who aren't skilled soldiers to start with, and have an incentive to train them more than the bare basics. Medieval levies did get training, something a lot of people overlook, but during the world wars, even conscripts got some degree of tactical and strategic training in some of the armies, which was generally less likely until industrialized warfare made such training necessary even in non professional soldiers. I think I mentioned modern style wars, and I basically meant total war (not the games). Which can easily happen in fantasy settings before technology reaches modern equivalency.
@@antrygrevok6440 Exactly! I didn't talk much about women specifically, but that's exactly what I'm talking about. They got pushed out of the workplace by all those returning soldiers, and a lot of them didn't like going back into the home. Without that backlash from the returning soldiers against them working, they might never have campaigned so fiercely to get back out there, to work, to vote. That mass societal backlash you're talking about is exactly what caused the women's rights movement to explode. It wasn't just that they'd worked during the war, it was then being forced back out in the aftermath.
what a coincidence, me too, i got so into worldbuilding some new fashions that i figured i needed a proper cultural and social revolutionary cause to go with it
So, a fun twist on what we today expect: during the Peloponnesian Wars, the upper classes of Athens did not want war. Whenever the Spartans marched on Athens, the Athenians would retreat into the city proper and the Spartans would plunder and burn the homes, groves, and vineyards of the upper classes. Meanwhile, the lower classes, given the vote after the importance of rowers in winning the battle of Salamis, thought war was nifty-keen: rowers would get far more pay PLUS a share of any plunder. And since Athens had no peer on the waves, a sea battle wasn't too much of a risk, especially considering the potential rewards. So it was the lower classes who were more likely to agitate and vote for war.
@@FirstDayson I loved the World Building and just getting to see more Sinbad! Everyone seems to hate on it for some reason. MAGI is easily one of my Top 10 anime of all time!
there was a black guy that said that when he went to the ussr it was the first time he was treated as a human being, i think that capitalist countries do no accept mine or yours, though.
Counter-example for plague: end of western Roman empire. The Antonine and Cyprean plagues caused similar staffing shortages that should have increased wages. Instead it lead to serfdom as large landowners gained more power at the expense of the state and the middle class was obliterated
Not sure if you'll see this Tim but your videos helped me learn I was in a emotional abuse relasonship. And gave me courage to ask others for help. And I finally got out last night. From the bottom of my heart Thank You
"...less advanced civilizations lack healthcare, have fewer resources, and often an inability to self-isolate." Subtle jab at the U.S. there. Good job, Tim.
Ike Okereke - I’m not sure if you actually missed the joke, but I’ll mansplain it anyway just in case. The US has a healthcare system that easily drives even the upper middle class to bankruptcy; limits key resources like fresh food, clean water, good infrastructure, and (of course) healthcare behind pay walls; and, you know, we decided to let COVID do whatever it wanted. The joke is that the US, despite our crusade of ‘spreading democracy’ and ‘expanding civilization,’ is actually not a very advanced country by international standards. If you did get the joke and yourself were joking, feel absolutely free to whoosh me!
@@Butterfly1025A Actually we do pretty good internationally we're not the best like some Americans believe but we're also nowhere near as bad as others say
@@Butterfly1025A Your joke isn't a joke because it just isn't true. The U.S. Healthcare System is a complicated system where veterans, people over 65, people below a certain income level, and people with certain conditions can get different standards of government insurance, while everyone else must do through their employer, or pay for those themselves, causing a messy system of different prices, high administrative costs, etc. However, it is possibly for people here to be provided with nessisary care for a low cost. As well, neither of the things you actually described that are locked behind a pay wall is actually behind a pay wall.
Ike Okereke - my lifelong experiences in American poverty speak otherwise on paywalls and lowcost healthcare, friend, but also do remember that this is someone else’s joke that I’m overexplaining to you. Direct your joke frustrations at OP, please!
To say unions are part of “peaceful” change kind of ignores the ways in which they were often brutally repressed by the ruling class often with state violence
Thinks it still counts because it’s not union on state violence. peaceful protest often remain peaceful protests despite the fact said protesters often got the snot beaten out of them.
Also that the “self made man” descends from the self made colonist and the ideas of getting rich within the British colonies. And a huge portion of inherited wealth in America comes from blood, cotton, and oil. And as the world gets a little more “woke” having daddy’s slave money is seen as bad, even though the self made man of today comes from an archetype descending from the self made slave owning ruling class.
It isn't something people really think about, the fact that remains of the old are brought into the new, but it makes sense. Culture can't really be erased all that easily by the people who lived in it- only time can really do that. There's something very intriguing about the concept that you're creating a better world for someone in the future, that you're actually creating a stronger building block for the next revolution even if you're just trying to get stability right now.
2:50 Another example is how Spain introduced the 8-hour workday: it was after a 44-day-long strike by the CNT (Spanish for "National Confederation of Labour"), a very powerful labour Union that did basically everything they could do to improve the workers living conditions, from lobbying to going into straight gunshots with the factory owners. Really, that happened so much that the Spanish pistol manufactorer Astra -which also produced weapons for the police and army- had a pistol model called "Syndicalist"... Anyways, they managed to introduce 8-hour workday in 1919.
Ah, but then you have stratified teaching and optional courses meaning that each student has a unique timetable, and you need to consider utilisation percentages of facilities and personnel. Someone has to figure all of that out in order for you to get to the right desk in front of the right teacher at the right time...
Also let's talk about the storied history of the education system, how it started with universities and slowly filtered its way down to younger and younger ages as justifications were developed for educating more and more people. And definitely don't bring up that the lectern derives from a pulpit.
@@Duiker36 we ought to give thanks to some highbrow theologian bigwigs or whatever in medieval university cause the concept of a university is pretty rad when you invent some scientific disciplines to put in it, higher education is cool
Gods above I wasn't expecting Scott Lynch in here but I'm crying a little bit because of it. He does some truly masterful representation of political problems within this fantasy setting that leak through the already engaging story to just add this extra, well, depth and stakes to the conflicts of the main characters. Which is really the point of the video, isn't it; adding the depth to a world setting. Appreciated this one though, because I was studying about feudalism and guild-structures for my current project.
Hypothetically you can spend time on how the top shape the class structure, creating some weird middle classes to separate the lower class artificially to create a buffer between the upper and lower classes. When the middle and lower classes have more in common with the upper class. I wonder what societies in real life have done that and how those structures are collapsing these days. COUGH.
Ironic given how middle class indenties are organically created and often large powerful ones tend to challenge the existing ruling classes. If anything it's the promise of upward mobility that keeps them in line like say the sale of peerages or... council houses?
The middle class was created organically, they were usually the merchant class, to challenge the upper classes since they could compete with them in terms of wealth and political power. What divides the middle from the upper is the barrier to entry; nearly everyone can become middle class but it's incredibly hard to become upper class since there are unspoken rules and traditions that are hard to pick up and can oust you as not one of them.
@Peaches and Cream Idk, there's a reason why there's something called "dead end jobs". Some people can't move upwards to the middle class because they spend all the time they have trying to survive. They can't gain new qualifications bc no money, no time, no energy or even health to change their situation It's often a generational thing. Access to nutrious food and health care during pregnancy has measurable impact on children's IQ levels. And you need this kind of intelligence (logical and mathematical thinking) to snatch well-paid jobs. For some reasons manual labour is usually badly paid (tho it's been changing laterly). And then there're things like alcoholism, drug abuse and mental health issues which often run in poor families. Partially bc genetics, partially bc environment. There're so many factors that make it incredibly difficult for the poor to climb up the class ladder
Super interesting video as always =) Brace for a long comment (mostly about Song of Ice and Fire) below It is indeed cool that Martin's novels are a post-revolution kind of story - and though this revolution didn't fundamentally change the class structure (I mean, kings are still there and all), they did introduce a new class of extremely ineffective aristocrats, which led to all the horrible conflicts we see during the novels. If you really think about it, we're led to despise the Mad King, and rightfully so, but perhaps even with his shenanigans, Westeros at large was safer, stable, prosperous. Once that ruling class was replaced by a revolutionary court... then what happened was what happens a lot in the real world: the people who have the skills to seize power prove that they not necessarily have the skills to rule well. I wonder if after the events of the novels (however it ends, perhaps the White Walkers win, who knows?) some fundamental change in society might happen. Not in the series, though we see a heir to the throne abdicating, which is a big deal. When you mentioned Korra, it also made me thing of the Shogunate, when the military in Japan just accumulated so much power that they just seized government. I think Korra (yes yes, giant laser beam worms, I also hate them) managed this theme super well. I particularly love the 'humanitarian aid' with second intentions. To finish this comment off, this video led me to think about the decentralization of power - and what happens after this sort of 'soft revolution'. Let's say that SOMEHOW, SOMEWHERE, SOMETIME a group manages to distribute in a truly equal fashion all the hard resources: money, land, food, manufactured goods, water - everybody gets the absolute same (Trotsky's soul is dancing, I'm sure). I can imagine a new class system based on other mushier resources like charisma. That could be an interesting worldbuilding element! Cheers =)
The class system of westeros didn't change when Robert's rebellion occured. They just got a new king and dynasty. The nobility stayed compeletely the same. It was a spat between some members of the ruling class against other members of the ruling class. It wasn't really a revolution. Westeros before and after roberts rebellion was largely the same society operating along the same rules. The troubles of westeros was triggered by a succession crisis as Robert didn't actually father heirs with his queen which was what set off the war of the five kings. Something that is also affects monarchies and had affected the targaryen dynastt before. See dance of the dragons. Robert himself was not really a bad king but not good either. He just didn't find the job to his liking.
‘Guild & Unions’ can be applied to any group with influence (political, religious, financial, social...) such as religions, parties, lobbies, TV-personas, or even the local bar
Conscription in War time can also divide a nation- ie French Canada vs English Canada during the conscription crisis in WWI (which is an oversimplification of the event of course). Conscription can really reinforce the different perceptions of national identity that different cultures hold within a nation.
CLASS SYSTEMS ARE COMPLICATED! Got me everytime, your running tags are great. Keep in keeping on and enjoy every moment. I look forward to every upload. Have a nice day.
This video couldn't have come out at a better time! I've been in the middle of the horrifyingly daunting task of upending a feudal system I have in my world, and oh this was so helpful!
Here’s Actually a fun example of status from a previous class system surviving even after it collapses. In the underrated tv show Chaotic, one nation was formerly a theocracy ruler by a class of mages who apparently act on behalf of divine magic, with their leader known as a High Muge. During a reform however, this former ruling class was not destroyed but instead was reformed into a class of people who study magic. They still hold power, and are still known as high muges, but they have changed from what they once were
Oh man I just finished listening to the mistborn trilogy and it was awesome. Im glad you recommended it so others not familiar with the series can enjoy it too
Really good video. I started watching you because of the how empires rise/fall videos and it was really worth it to subscribe to you, because i have a story in the back of my mind and your videos interest me because of it
I use a Well World motif to a bit. Think traveling from free wheeling Furyondy to the hierarchical Theocracy of the Pale. Gygax and crew really threw about every governmental system imaginable at the DM in World of Greyhawk. Highly important to have breadth and depth of knowledge. Great vid.
I said that then you should have spoke of animal farm by George Orwell. He paints the most perfect literary picture of said topic revolution leading to a class system
The change from inherited wealth as status to earned wealth as status is largely a facade though, capitalism as it currently exists massively privileges those who already have a degree of wealth when it comes to entrepreneurialism, its the same old structure as before but instead of telling the poor that God put them in their position we tell them its their own fault - despite the massive structural disadvantages they face
There's also a difference in the mindset of different 'classes', i.e. how they spend their wealth, what means they go about obtaining wealth, and how that wealth can alter everything from dietary means to social interactions.
My current life goal is to buy a house. I can't even imagine how secure it must feel to have a roof over your head that you just own. Like, people can't just arbitrarily decide to kick you out? What even is that level of security? I want it.
It is a pipe dream that has been fed to you in order to make you contribute to society. Humans are very resilient and adaptable. Food, water and shelter. Your idea of shelter has been perverted and used against you. You decide how secure you are.
@@TheDrag0nSlayerweird. I own my own house. I wouldn't call it a 'pipedream.' Just scale your expectations. But to the OP - you can absolutely still get kicked out of a house you own. Try not paying your taxes for a few years and watch how fast it gets snatched up. Your rent just goes from monthly to annually and drastically reduces. Where I live you can buy a trailer for 10k. A five bedroom for 250k. Just scale your expectations and move if necessary.
Great video as always! Always love it when you use ASOIAF examples, and for this topic you could in theory only have used examples from the books haha. Your comment on the entire series being in a post revolutionary world (here Robert's rebellion) was very apt, since I belive the more.typical fantasy story would have been about the glorious quest to overthrow the evil, mad king. A (or rather several) historical sidenote(s) is that the tsarist Russian attempt to inspire nationalism was initially successful in 1914, but crumbled rather quickly. Once again the poor February revolution didn't get a mention, seems like everyone keeps forgetting about it. Two missed opportunies in this otherwise great video was 1) on top down class change, giving more historical examples. First that came into my mind was Bismarck, who literally spoke about change from above and 2) mentioning the very interesting fact that Lenin was smuggled by the Germans into Russia. I understand that all interesting historical fact can be in the video, just wanted to mention this. Forth class video being on how foreign influence and plots can fuel preexisting tension and change class systems? Overall, amazing as always - both insightful and entertaining.
You mention Mistborn in this video as an example of a bottom-up revolution. I'd like to point out that it's also a good example of the lower class getting help from the upper class (Elend most notably) and that the second book in the trilogy, The Well of Ascension, is a great examination of the revolutionaries trying (and more or less failing) to establish the new order post-war.
From my notes on this video: "Lower classes and less advanced civilizations are hit hardest by plague, particularly when their leader is an orange baffoon, in which case nothing can save them."
Can you please, please, please do a book review of Shad Brook's Shadow of the Conqueror??? PLEASE? I (and others) would love your input simply because of your knowledge of setting v plot v character progression. You're amazing, keep writing, stay nerdy.
Him: use campfire to sort your things for your book. Me: *states at my A3 paper of a rough map and the 7 pages of town maps and names along with a small book full of character sheets and scrapped ideas*
I believe an often ignored premise is that many of the aspects in our classes are expressions of human nature or cultural norms in different socio-economic environments. Basically, the when you remove the ruling class, and put lower class people in the position, they quickly begin acting similar or equitably to their predecessors, because they now inhabit the socio-economic environment their predecessors once did. It may look different but only in appearance. Consider the French revolution, where several governments came into power, and each collapsed because they, in the end, were effectively too similar to the ones they replaced. Because the upper and lower class are both from the same species, and most differences aren't derived from differences in natures, but differences in opportunity and socio-economic environment. Consider the friend on tv who becomes a terrible person because he becomes rich/popular. It wasn't him who changed, it was the manner in which he expressed his full nature due to a less restrictive socio-economic environment. He's still a terrible person when he becomes poor/unpopular again, but now he doesn't have the opportunity/environment to display it. But unlike the individual (who can be a good person even after gaining fame/fortune), the masses tend toward the lowest common denominator because that's how averages and populism works. So on the mass level, any large group of humans will have the same basic nature, even if their manner/opportunity to express that nature is different.
Not only are the new ruling class people; they're people who grew up in the same system they're replacing, so all their unstated assumptions about how wealth and power work are based on those same principles, and they naturally default to the same behaviour. "It's our turn to live in big houses and boss people around".
@@rmsgrey That is absolutely true. Their socio-economic environment leaves a general blueprint of how to respond to it. Of course, we tend to see the same general principles come to light in almost all cultures. Merely a differently constructed interpretation of base human nature and instincts.
@@unigaming9921 Also, unless you have a very big broom to make a clean sweep, most of the institutions will persist - the same farmers will grow the same food and take it to the same market towns. The same community leaders. The same petty bureaucrats. The same news reporters. So much of the system will be the same and you'll need to either work within that existing system, or spend a lot of time and energy devising a new one and ramming it down the throats of an ungrateful population...
@@rmsgrey Absolutely. The bones of the socio-economic realities are maintained, and combined with cultural ideas of class and human nature, it's unlikely to ultimately move too far from the previous model. I feel that, no matter what we do, simply removing one class and putting another class in it's place won't change anything, because it relies on the premise that one class is fundamentally different in human nature to another.
what you described was the transition between class societies with the maintenance of minority rule - specifically unproductive minority rule. it would be different if the class that took power was the productive, majority class.
That makes me think in my book, class are not formally presented, but I think it doesn't need. Although I can do a reference about them since the main villain just want to end up with all the system, in a world which everything works like a clock, and richness and poverty are tabu.
Tim: "How did we get from a slave society to a free one? From feudalism to capitalism?" Me: *laughs in student loan debt, suppressed wages, and crippling existential dread*
@@sienna2379 Indeed. He could have accepted living on slave wages the rest of his life. Working 80-100 hour work weeks just to feed himself while men fresh off their three day work week look down on him and call him "lazy".
I think now is a good time to point out that we need a *GLOBAL PEACEFUL REVOLUTION* towards a culture of cooperation and a sustainable, just and emancipatory society.
This is quality revolutionary input but, comrade, must you really use the Resist Fist to represent generic power within systems, especially while referencing that systemic power which is so often inherited and withheld from the very masses that fist was intended to unify? Just feels a little wishy-washy. Enjoy your tea and biscuits!
Well, yes, because the communists always concentrate power into the hands of the ruling class. The people who use the 'resist' fist may as well be begging to have their power taken away from them.
@@o00nemesis00o wow I can't believe communists are the ones who write tax codes and labour laws that have concentrated power and wealth into less than 1% of the population. You sure taught me!
I'm worldbuilding a world based on what happens in a Swords-and-sorcery setting when more and more people gain "the power of an adventurer," the power to change things on a scale usually restricted to the protagonists of a story... When everyone is a protagonist to their own story. When anyone can become an orcish warlord if they fight hard enough, or a powerful archmage if they study creatively enough, or an assassin capable of overthrowing governments if they train correctly, Etcetera... what remains of Class? When, if a peasant trains their chi they can learn to deflect crossbow bolts and punch through steel armor, what stops them from deciding to no longer be a peasant?
same thing really, just that personal power like that add to the other complex ways wealth and power is maintained, and probably a higher degree of instability. but there would still be an upper class, it's just that upper class would have those adventurer types either being the upper class themselves or rigidly controlled and used against each other to maintain the status quo.
@@EvelynNdenial or, as it is in mine, the upper class has to protect and please their population to prevent uprisings or turmoil, and any long-standing kingdom has to maintain magical or otherwise powerful help from experienced adventurers to not fall to powerful brigands, external invasion, reclusive but dangerous mad scientist types, extreme idealists or cults, or other potentially kingdom-destroying threats, like that Dragon that figured out Arcane Mastery and overthrew * that * kingdom over there.
@@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606"any long-standing kingdom has to maintain magical or otherwise powerful help from experienced adventurers" that right there. whatever government or upper class that runs the societies would make damn well sure they had that sort on their side. either naturally as the adventurers overthrow and become the new nobles or by some sort of coercion. once every nation has powerful adventuring types fighting for them the adventurers just become another military resource, basically just like knights. if any new adventurers appear and cause trouble you send your own army of adventurers to deal with them. if there are enough of them to challenge your whole army well then it's just a war like any other.
@@EvelynNdenial Sort of. In my setting, magic is very much integral to keeping societal structures in play; larger kingdoms have teleportation circles for bulk resource transfer, enabling empires; as he explains in his video on those, and some cities have powerful sanctuary spells written into the foundations by eldar the wise, a wizard born 300 years ago, or something, that prevent malevolent acts and bring crime to zero in the city borders; relics of great magical feats of adventurers past aid in the kingdoms that stick around, a nations crown jewels emitting an antimagic field to prevent charmed rulers, or sets of heavily armored trade convoys pulled by Golem Teams. No matter how many adventurers a kingdom hires, any longstanding kingdom has magical protections and assistances that have ensured their prolonged prosperity in a world of powerful heroes and villains; A good kingdom has special graveyards that protect from necromantic resurrection and grow internal spaces when necessary; every farmer in a long-lived empire can look over at the collossus protectors in the distance. If a kingdom doesn't have protections like that, they fall to wilderness.
@@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606 I feel like a long standing piece of magic that “stops all crime” requires that you first get deep into the philosophy of laws. Is this basically the equivalent of a few of the first 10 commandments, like “do not murder” (where if you try to run someone through with a knife, it simply bounces off, unless that person came into the city without the permission of the city guards (in order to allow the people of the city to kill invaders)), “do not steal” (in which case the definition of stealing would need to contain the definition of the maximum tax rates that can be imposed on the population).
Relating to point 4, in ASOIAF, Dany forms a council in Mereen. She has four chief advisors: Ser Barristan, a foreigner like herself who just wants to leave. Skahaz Shavepate. A member of the great families of Mereen, but from an impovrished one Reznek mo Reznek. Also a member of the great families, and also a member of the City’s former ruling council The Green Grace. A woman from a great family AND religious leader of Mereen. All of her councilors save Barristan are from the Slave Owning and higher power class. Her husband, Hizdar, is from that same class as well, being the richest man in Mereen. She literally just turned the old power structure into a monarchy with no civil change, save for the fact that there are indentured servants instead of slaves. Also, when Hizdar replaces the Shavepate with his cousin to rule the military order of Mereen, the Brazen Beasts, the beasts are still loyal to Skahaz
5:12 gradual doesn't mean by itself "healthy". oppressive class systems are by their nature violent. is forcing people to live in poverty not harmful? many people suffer every waking moment under oppressive class systems, so fast change can be necessary. the violence of oppressive class systems is normal to many that live under them, and so, transparent, invisible. the violence of a fast rebellion is abnormal, and so, very visible, but not necessarily more violent then the normal violence of the previous class system.
The book of D’ni involves some interesting looks at this. So does the book of Ti’ana. The book of Atrus has less along these lines, though the scenario on age 5 is interesting from a class systems perspective.
I'm kind of early for once I guess??? Idk I'm just excited to watch this video, and even though I'm not writing anything right now, it will probably help me with future projects.
One series nobody knows about is the Motherlines series by Suzy McKee Charnas. The first two books are very second wave feminist sci fi about escaping a corrupt system and discovering the "ideal" system has problems too. The second two, written two decades later in the 90s, are about navigating the overthrow of a corrupt system in a very messy, human way.
Hello. Just a thought for a topic I've not seen addressed: On ATLA / LoK there's a lot of discussion about The Spirit World, but this does not seem to be The Afterlife as in where a human soul passes once it leaves the mortal body. Other than Iroh, who once again seems to be an exception to the norm, you don't see the souls of the departed in the Spirit World and the only appearance of any sort is when the avatar is communing with their past selves. So, it might be interesting to examine why The Spirit World is not The Afterlife.
An addition to the plague part. There where major colonization attempts in eastern Germany in the 13th and early 14th century ("Ostkolonisation"). The farmers who settled there had a lot of space and where therefore relatively wealthy. This changed whith the black death. Workforces where scarce and the landowners forced the lower classes to stay where they are. So the plague solidified the "Güterstruktur" (estates structure?) in these parts of middle Europe. Another example where plagues can also be a force, which additionally enforces already existing class systems.
![On Worldbuilding: How Class Systems Work [ Avatar | Dune | Tolkien | Feudalism ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8tjvul5e1y4/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Worldbuilding: How Class Systems Work [ Avatar | Dune | Tolkien | Feudalism ]](/img/tr.png)
![On Worldbuilding: Monarchy [ French Revolution | British Empire | Chinese Dynasties ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8o0X8TE4aPk/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Writing: Mentor Characters [ Iroh l Obi-Wan l Cersei l Lupin ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/djnao3Ey3zc/mqdefault.jpg)
Poor people? Getting an education? NOT ON MY WATCH.
~ Tim
ayyeee
Wait if spirituality, personality and change are the key to bend, could this mean that the most spiritual and open to change person in the avatar world could bend not only energy, but time itself like the lion turtles?
Hello Future Me how is this comment 3 days old
Its absolutely absurd
~Kelly FREMLIN
Was that a gil scott haren reference when you said the revolution will not be televised
Hello Future Me - I will not be using examples from Avatar The Last Airbender
Also Hello Future Me - I will be using Avatar Legend of Korra as an example instead
The Legend of Korra example actually wasn't in the script till the last minute review, which is why the audio sound slightly different. The video read as a little disjointed without an example to compound the point, and I little time, so it had to do.
~ Tim
@@HelloFutureMe Using the Avatar franchise is _always_ a win in my book
Hello Future Me this was actually expanded on in one of the korra comics were trying to implement an election in one of the villages of the earth kingdom and the only two people running were the same upper that was running things before
they're not the same so it works :)
To be fair, Korra has A LOT of material on class while Aang and Sokka knocked heads pretending to be nobles.
Sometimes I forget these videos are for the purpose of writing and not for putting attention to pivotal world attributes important to know.
Hell, I don't write and these videos just gives a visual perspective of how society has been and always will be functioning. It's great & shameful at the same time
i dont write i just worldbuild to have an excuse to be interested in the most mundane aspects of anything ever, hell history is boring as shit if you just remember it as a bunch of names and dates and things that happened so you can write about it for a test
@@Crosshill that's why you dig for the absolutely absurd tidbits that bow your mind. My fave example is the Dutch Naval fleet captured by a French cavalry charge during The 1790's
@@lilithmotherofmonsters6055 that sounds really familiar as a video headline i might have read recently
Actually, I think, the videos' real purpose is just to promote Tolkien, the Avatar franchise and communism under our supreme leader Mishka ;)
It's strange how historically well informed, and relatively unbiased, these videos are despite being about worldbuilding. Usually with worldbuilding, you have individuals who aren't able to go into depth about many topics in order to cover a myriad of aspects but the research that goes into these videos is quite impressive.
History is an AMAZING source of inspiration. ;)
History is about as realistic as you can get. If you draw inspiration from it, the setting is probably gonna end up more realistic.
Plus, you kinda need examples because
CLASS SYSTEMS ARE COMPLICATED!!!
@@MercuryA2000 **Lenin reviving intensifies**
None of that was correct. You actually mean that he confirms your pre-existing biases.
@ Rets Rational, exactly. The whole Hello Future Me channel is a huge inspiratin source for me. Tim either knows what I want to know more of, or he knows what I don't know I want to know more of.
"In contrast, Russia"
A sentence that could be used at literally any point in history
"Unless... you're the Mongols" - Crash Course History
@@valdonchev7296 you gotta admit: the mongols were chads.
10/10 sentence
"Some jobs become more important during and after the plague"
*Shows USPS images*
Me: Oh
Yeah and they are being hit hard by it isntead of being supported
@@MechanicWolf85 You can point to the President of the United States for that one.
@@nhagan001 And Jeff...
@@lopez.jacinto.6726 bloody Jeff
Class systems would probably be a lot simpler if a wizard did it
ruclips.net/video/G1IbRujko-A/видео.html
@@horseenthusiast9903 my favorite song 🙌👏🙌
Seize the means of spell production
I think Dragon Age did showed how complicated it would be.
Granted said wizards are powered by blood, and persecution tends to be "tit-for-tat" (even its own Christianity was formed by a woman martyred by wizard persecution of normal people).
And DnD had Thay and Halruaa, former relying on slaves descended from Isekai-ed Babylonians and Egyptians (not joking, Forgotten Realms had civilizations teleported from real world) and Halruaa had everyone using magic--be it arcane by birth or divine by learning.
A magical bureaucracy? Definitely probably not simple
2:35 Talks about the fighters' guild, shows skyrim
*SCREAMS IN MORROWIND*
I WANTED MORROWIND but a bunch of little reasons led to using different footage 😅 Morrowind will forever hold my loyalty.
~ Tim
Laughs in world of warcraft
Ooooh okay. I was wondering, because Skyrim didn't have a fighters guild, and oblivion's fighters guild doesn't really cover that aspect. I've never played Morrowind, so I presume that's where these themes arise.
"Lower classes or less advanced civilizations lack health care ... and often an inability to self isolate."
I think my nation was just subtweeted, which is fair, we deserve it.
Honestly? What nation wasn't?
@@candys7285 Pretty much every developed nation other than the US
@@sdprz7893 Implying that the US has a good health care system???
As one of the countries having the WORST time with the virus, I think you have completely missed the point here.
@@buurzai I think you misunderstood me, I was implying the opposite
@@sdprz7893 In that case, I apologise for the miscommunication.
In fairness, there isn't always such a hard line between the 'idealistic' and 'real' causes. When you say 'we want improved material conditions like enough food', and you say 'we want equality/justice', often that means the same thing!
"imagine if millennials could no longer buy a house."
*Do you hear the people sing? Singing the songs of angry men? It is the music of the people who will not be slaves again! When the beating of your heart echoes the beating of the drums, there is a life about to start when tomorrow comes!*
Yeah, I kind of gave up on that dream a long time ago. At this point, I'm settling with a sufficiently spaced apartment.
Interesting times lay ahead folks. Whoever though history was over need only to be acutely aware of the happenings of this year to know that's no longer the case.
Let others rise to take our place/ Until the earth is free!
Aka eat the rich
_Arise! ye prisoners of starvation!_
_Arise! ye wretched of the Earth!_
_For Justice thunders condemnation,_
_A better world's in birth!_
_No more tradition's chains shall bind us!_
_Arise! you slaves, no more in thrall!_
_The Earth shall rise on new foundations!_
_We have been naught, we shall be all!_
@@reedhoward27 the internationale unites the human race!
One thing you didn't mention in the war section is about how (in modern style wars at least) the soldiers returning from wars from a suppressed class can have an increased sense of confidence in themselves, and the skills they needed to learn during war can often translate quite well to trying to gain higher status for themselves, both violently and through more peaceful means. Actually, not just soldiers either. After both world wars there was a surge in activism in the United States for civil rights for both African Americans and women, influenced by opportunities and experiences from during the wars. I don't know as many details for other countries, but I'm assuming similar campaigns happened elsewhere.
Well in a way he did but not directly. He said that social tensions often goes on hold during a war but comes back with a vengeance after. Most likely fueled by what you mentioned but I don’t think it only fits in modern times but also before.
@@Johode97 Whoops, I thought I'd said he kinda skirted around that, but that must have been a different comment, or it got deleted during my editing.
Also, I agree that it isn't something exclusive to modern war, but it does require a situation where you have to conscript people who aren't skilled soldiers to start with, and have an incentive to train them more than the bare basics. Medieval levies did get training, something a lot of people overlook, but during the world wars, even conscripts got some degree of tactical and strategic training in some of the armies, which was generally less likely until industrialized warfare made such training necessary even in non professional soldiers. I think I mentioned modern style wars, and I basically meant total war (not the games). Which can easily happen in fantasy settings before technology reaches modern equivalency.
@@antrygrevok6440 Exactly! I didn't talk much about women specifically, but that's exactly what I'm talking about. They got pushed out of the workplace by all those returning soldiers, and a lot of them didn't like going back into the home. Without that backlash from the returning soldiers against them working, they might never have campaigned so fiercely to get back out there, to work, to vote. That mass societal backlash you're talking about is exactly what caused the women's rights movement to explode. It wasn't just that they'd worked during the war, it was then being forced back out in the aftermath.
nice, I was getting to the cultural tension and political strife for my story.
Sounds dope
So's planet Earth's story methinks.
Communist Manifesto is a really quick read. If you're committed try Capital.
what a coincidence, me too, i got so into worldbuilding some new fashions that i figured i needed a proper cultural and social revolutionary cause to go with it
@Plum Tucker, what are you writing?
Love the new "XX is complicated!" bit.
"new"?
Its the bit after he says "Class systems are complicated", I don't recall seeing the simpson's bit before in his videos.
@@Skelethin ahh, i see! I don't typically watch the videos, I listen while I'm at work. So I didn't notice it myself. Lol
So, a fun twist on what we today expect: during the Peloponnesian Wars, the upper classes of Athens did not want war. Whenever the Spartans marched on Athens, the Athenians would retreat into the city proper and the Spartans would plunder and burn the homes, groves, and vineyards of the upper classes. Meanwhile, the lower classes, given the vote after the importance of rowers in winning the battle of Salamis, thought war was nifty-keen: rowers would get far more pay PLUS a share of any plunder. And since Athens had no peer on the waves, a sea battle wasn't too much of a risk, especially considering the potential rewards. So it was the lower classes who were more likely to agitate and vote for war.
hahhahahaha This is absolutely awesome thanks for this info.
It's all about self-interest, war can and often is very beneficial for some of the involved.
“There are no solutions. There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell, A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles
Thomas Sowell was a hack
Thomas Sowell lives. And what are you a racist? Anyway Thomas Sowell would have one comment for you... “show me the evidence.”
John Green said exactly these words in a video earlen this week, but without the citation
There are solutions. A post-scarcity society.
@@roseslikemusic So did CGP Grey!
This just really reminds me of Magi: The Labyrinth of Magic
Great anime
You have good taste. Checkout Sinbad if you haven't, it's a prequel
@@FirstDayson I loved the World Building and just getting to see more Sinbad! Everyone seems to hate on it for some reason.
MAGI is easily one of my Top 10 anime of all time!
Haha don't read the manga
@@hobbesgoblin2691 Why? I found it quite enjoyable, though I did stop randomly during the last arc.
The Soviets: stop abusing the USSR'S anthem!
Memers: OUR anthem.
comrade, you're not abusing, spread the message, we have nothing to lose but our chains
@@camalienator the chains in the gulag are prettier.
@@iBloodxHunter those that do not move don't feel their chains, my friend
The USSR didn't accept mine or yours, though. Was that nuance to your joke intended?
there was a black guy that said that when he went to the ussr it was the first time he was treated as a human being, i think that capitalist countries do no accept mine or yours, though.
Counter-example for plague: end of western Roman empire. The Antonine and Cyprean plagues caused similar staffing shortages that should have increased wages. Instead it lead to serfdom as large landowners gained more power at the expense of the state and the middle class was obliterated
Not sure if you'll see this Tim but your videos helped me learn I was in a emotional abuse relasonship. And gave me courage to ask others for help. And I finally got out last night. From the bottom of my heart Thank You
"...less advanced civilizations lack healthcare, have fewer resources, and often an inability to self-isolate."
Subtle jab at the U.S. there. Good job, Tim.
But the U.S. has all of those things?
Ike Okereke - I’m not sure if you actually missed the joke, but I’ll mansplain it anyway just in case. The US has a healthcare system that easily drives even the upper middle class to bankruptcy; limits key resources like fresh food, clean water, good infrastructure, and (of course) healthcare behind pay walls; and, you know, we decided to let COVID do whatever it wanted. The joke is that the US, despite our crusade of ‘spreading democracy’ and ‘expanding civilization,’ is actually not a very advanced country by international standards.
If you did get the joke and yourself were joking, feel absolutely free to whoosh me!
@@Butterfly1025A
Actually we do pretty good internationally we're not the best like some Americans believe but we're also nowhere near as bad as others say
@@Butterfly1025A
Your joke isn't a joke because it just isn't true. The U.S. Healthcare System is a complicated system where veterans, people over 65, people below a certain income level, and people with certain conditions can get different standards of government insurance, while everyone else must do through their employer, or pay for those themselves, causing a messy system of different prices, high administrative costs, etc. However, it is possibly for people here to be provided with nessisary care for a low cost. As well, neither of the things you actually described that are locked behind a pay wall is actually behind a pay wall.
Ike Okereke - my lifelong experiences in American poverty speak otherwise on paywalls and lowcost healthcare, friend, but also do remember that this is someone else’s joke that I’m overexplaining to you. Direct your joke frustrations at OP, please!
To say unions are part of “peaceful” change kind of ignores the ways in which they were often brutally repressed by the ruling class often with state violence
Thinks it still counts because it’s not union on state violence. peaceful protest often remain peaceful protests despite the fact said protesters often got the snot beaten out of them.
@@Delmworkslook up the battle of Blair mountain
Id be in favor of a little more union violence towards the state
Also that the “self made man” descends from the self made colonist and the ideas of getting rich within the British colonies. And a huge portion of inherited wealth in America comes from blood, cotton, and oil. And as the world gets a little more “woke” having daddy’s slave money is seen as bad, even though the self made man of today comes from an archetype descending from the self made slave owning ruling class.
@@Delmworks😊
There's a saying from my boss; if you put in extra time, hard work & dedication, I can buy another boat.
It isn't something people really think about, the fact that remains of the old are brought into the new, but it makes sense. Culture can't really be erased all that easily by the people who lived in it- only time can really do that. There's something very intriguing about the concept that you're creating a better world for someone in the future, that you're actually creating a stronger building block for the next revolution even if you're just trying to get stability right now.
A good example of how inert culture is are the many pagan traditions people just kept when they converted to christianity.
2:50 Another example is how Spain introduced the 8-hour workday: it was after a 44-day-long strike by the CNT (Spanish for "National Confederation of Labour"), a very powerful labour Union that did basically everything they could do to improve the workers living conditions, from lobbying to going into straight gunshots with the factory owners. Really, that happened so much that the Spanish pistol manufactorer Astra -which also produced weapons for the police and army- had a pistol model called "Syndicalist"... Anyways, they managed to introduce 8-hour workday in 1919.
Tim: *posts footage of him wielding Dawnbreaker in Skyrim *
Me: Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well
But y tho?
A new hand touches the beacon.
Class systems aren’t complicated they’re pretty simple actually
You just sit at your desk and listen to the teacher
Ah, but then you have stratified teaching and optional courses meaning that each student has a unique timetable, and you need to consider utilisation percentages of facilities and personnel. Someone has to figure all of that out in order for you to get to the right desk in front of the right teacher at the right time...
Also let's talk about the storied history of the education system, how it started with universities and slowly filtered its way down to younger and younger ages as justifications were developed for educating more and more people. And definitely don't bring up that the lectern derives from a pulpit.
@@Duiker36 we ought to give thanks to some highbrow theologian bigwigs or whatever in medieval university cause the concept of a university is pretty rad when you invent some scientific disciplines to put in it, higher education is cool
"how did we get from a slave society to a free one?"
I'll let ya know when we get there over here
**Laughs in North Korea**
Also **cries in North Korea**
Thank you, I had the same reaction
Gods above I wasn't expecting Scott Lynch in here but I'm crying a little bit because of it. He does some truly masterful representation of political problems within this fantasy setting that leak through the already engaging story to just add this extra, well, depth and stakes to the conflicts of the main characters.
Which is really the point of the video, isn't it; adding the depth to a world setting.
Appreciated this one though, because I was studying about feudalism and guild-structures for my current project.
Hypothetically you can spend time on how the top shape the class structure, creating some weird middle classes to separate the lower class artificially to create a buffer between the upper and lower classes. When the middle and lower classes have more in common with the upper class. I wonder what societies in real life have done that and how those structures are collapsing these days. COUGH.
Funny enough that cough at the end might be the greatest threat to the system these days.
Ironic given how middle class indenties are organically created and often large powerful ones tend to challenge the existing ruling classes. If anything it's the promise of upward mobility that keeps them in line like say the sale of peerages or... council houses?
The middle class was created organically, they were usually the merchant class, to challenge the upper classes since they could compete with them in terms of wealth and political power. What divides the middle from the upper is the barrier to entry; nearly everyone can become middle class but it's incredibly hard to become upper class since there are unspoken rules and traditions that are hard to pick up and can oust you as not one of them.
@Peaches and Cream
Idk, there's a reason why there's something called "dead end jobs". Some people can't move upwards to the middle class because they spend all the time they have trying to survive. They can't gain new qualifications bc no money, no time, no energy or even health to change their situation
It's often a generational thing. Access to nutrious food and health care during pregnancy has measurable impact on children's IQ levels. And you need this kind of intelligence (logical and mathematical thinking) to snatch well-paid jobs. For some reasons manual labour is usually badly paid (tho it's been changing laterly). And then there're things like alcoholism, drug abuse and mental health issues which often run in poor families. Partially bc genetics, partially bc environment. There're so many factors that make it incredibly difficult for the poor to climb up the class ladder
I really do appreciate your different worldbuilding system videos and the various media that is utilize as examples of this. Keep it up.
Super interesting video as always =) Brace for a long comment (mostly about Song of Ice and Fire) below
It is indeed cool that Martin's novels are a post-revolution kind of story - and though this revolution didn't fundamentally change the class structure (I mean, kings are still there and all), they did introduce a new class of extremely ineffective aristocrats, which led to all the horrible conflicts we see during the novels. If you really think about it, we're led to despise the Mad King, and rightfully so, but perhaps even with his shenanigans, Westeros at large was safer, stable, prosperous. Once that ruling class was replaced by a revolutionary court... then what happened was what happens a lot in the real world: the people who have the skills to seize power prove that they not necessarily have the skills to rule well.
I wonder if after the events of the novels (however it ends, perhaps the White Walkers win, who knows?) some fundamental change in society might happen. Not in the series, though we see a heir to the throne abdicating, which is a big deal.
When you mentioned Korra, it also made me thing of the Shogunate, when the military in Japan just accumulated so much power that they just seized government. I think Korra (yes yes, giant laser beam worms, I also hate them) managed this theme super well. I particularly love the 'humanitarian aid' with second intentions.
To finish this comment off, this video led me to think about the decentralization of power - and what happens after this sort of 'soft revolution'. Let's say that SOMEHOW, SOMEWHERE, SOMETIME a group manages to distribute in a truly equal fashion all the hard resources: money, land, food, manufactured goods, water - everybody gets the absolute same (Trotsky's soul is dancing, I'm sure). I can imagine a new class system based on other mushier resources like charisma. That could be an interesting worldbuilding element!
Cheers =)
The class system of westeros didn't change when Robert's rebellion occured. They just got a new king and dynasty. The nobility stayed compeletely the same. It was a spat between some members of the ruling class against other members of the ruling class. It wasn't really a revolution. Westeros before and after roberts rebellion was largely the same society operating along the same rules. The troubles of westeros was triggered by a succession crisis as Robert didn't actually father heirs with his queen which was what set off the war of the five kings. Something that is also affects monarchies and had affected the targaryen dynastt before. See dance of the dragons. Robert himself was not really a bad king but not good either. He just didn't find the job to his liking.
so I just finished Korra for the first time and I’m SO HYPE bc now I can watch all your videos that mention Korra.
Hello Future Me
Forcing me to remember I have a DnD setting to build since 2018.
‘Guild & Unions’ can be applied to any group with influence (political, religious, financial, social...) such as religions, parties, lobbies, TV-personas, or even the local bar
eh~ they represent organized labor, either in a more primitive sense or modern industrial unionism
I clicked on this video expecting a discussion of like *RPG* class systems. For some reason.
Still watched and enjoyed.
Conscription in War time can also divide a nation- ie French Canada vs English Canada during the conscription crisis in WWI (which is an oversimplification of the event of course). Conscription can really reinforce the different perceptions of national identity that different cultures hold within a nation.
CLASS SYSTEMS ARE COMPLICATED!
Got me everytime, your running tags are great.
Keep in keeping on and enjoy every moment. I look forward to every upload.
Have a nice day.
Not even one minute and already 13 comments? Oh, Tim, how do you do it?
Great content as ever
9:12 Dr. Horrible: "It's not a perfect metaphor, but I'm talking about an overhaul of the system: putting the power in... different... hands
"Oh , i wouldn't say free.
More like under new managment "
This video couldn't have come out at a better time! I've been in the middle of the horrifyingly daunting task of upending a feudal system I have in my world, and oh this was so helpful!
The Mamluk Sultanate is a key example for class systems in worldbuilding
Here’s Actually a fun example of status from a previous class system surviving even after it collapses. In the underrated tv show Chaotic, one nation was formerly a theocracy ruler by a class of mages who apparently act on behalf of divine magic, with their leader known as a High Muge. During a reform however, this former ruling class was not destroyed but instead was reformed into a class of people who study magic. They still hold power, and are still known as high muges, but they have changed from what they once were
Oh man I just finished listening to the mistborn trilogy and it was awesome. Im glad you recommended it so others not familiar with the series can enjoy it too
Really good video.
I started watching you because of the how empires rise/fall videos and it was really worth it to subscribe to you, because i have a story in the back of my mind and your videos interest me because of it
I use a Well World motif to a bit. Think traveling from free wheeling Furyondy to the hierarchical Theocracy of the Pale. Gygax and crew really threw about every governmental system imaginable at the DM in World of Greyhawk.
Highly important to have breadth and depth of knowledge.
Great vid.
I said that then you should have spoke of animal farm by George Orwell. He paints the most perfect literary picture of said topic revolution leading to a class system
The change from inherited wealth as status to earned wealth as status is largely a facade though, capitalism as it currently exists massively privileges those who already have a degree of wealth when it comes to entrepreneurialism, its the same old structure as before but instead of telling the poor that God put them in their position we tell them its their own fault - despite the massive structural disadvantages they face
Another important aspect is that people tend to believe it from both sides
There's also a difference in the mindset of different 'classes', i.e. how they spend their wealth, what means they go about obtaining wealth, and how that wealth can alter everything from dietary means to social interactions.
My current life goal is to buy a house. I can't even imagine how secure it must feel to have a roof over your head that you just own. Like, people can't just arbitrarily decide to kick you out? What even is that level of security? I want it.
It is a pipe dream that has been fed to you in order to make you contribute to society. Humans are very resilient and adaptable. Food, water and shelter. Your idea of shelter has been perverted and used against you. You decide how secure you are.
@@TheDrag0nSlayerweird. I own my own house. I wouldn't call it a 'pipedream.' Just scale your expectations.
But to the OP - you can absolutely still get kicked out of a house you own. Try not paying your taxes for a few years and watch how fast it gets snatched up.
Your rent just goes from monthly to annually and drastically reduces.
Where I live you can buy a trailer for 10k. A five bedroom for 250k. Just scale your expectations and move if necessary.
@@josephmatthews7698moving hard when u need to pay the rent , need to provide for other and all that
A video on class systems and another video on the platform? In one day? Amazing
Great video as always! Always love it when you use ASOIAF examples, and for this topic you could in theory only have used examples from the books haha. Your comment on the entire series being in a post revolutionary world (here Robert's rebellion) was very apt, since I belive the more.typical fantasy story would have been about the glorious quest to overthrow the evil, mad king.
A (or rather several) historical sidenote(s) is that the tsarist Russian attempt to inspire nationalism was initially successful in 1914, but crumbled rather quickly. Once again the poor February revolution didn't get a mention, seems like everyone keeps forgetting about it.
Two missed opportunies in this otherwise great video was 1) on top down class change, giving more historical examples. First that came into my mind was Bismarck, who literally spoke about change from above and 2) mentioning the very interesting fact that Lenin was smuggled by the Germans into Russia. I understand that all interesting historical fact can be in the video, just wanted to mention this.
Forth class video being on how foreign influence and plots can fuel preexisting tension and change class systems?
Overall, amazing as always - both insightful and entertaining.
Great video as always Tim, thank you for really caring about writing!
You mention Mistborn in this video as an example of a bottom-up revolution. I'd like to point out that it's also a good example of the lower class getting help from the upper class (Elend most notably) and that the second book in the trilogy, The Well of Ascension, is a great examination of the revolutionaries trying (and more or less failing) to establish the new order post-war.
From my notes on this video:
"Lower classes and less advanced civilizations are hit hardest by plague, particularly when their leader is an orange baffoon, in which case nothing can save them."
These videos are great for both learning how to write and how real world stuff works.
What a timely time to talk about dissolving class relations
Call me crazy, but I think Lenin really wants to get out of that glass box.
awwww i was hoping for some stuff on Family based class systems.
Like in japan or the star wars madolorians
thats just feudalism
Your Russian accent went a bit Welsh for a minute there...
Turns out a kiwi doing a russian acent sounds like a welshman. Take from that what you will.
Stood up every time USSR anthem started))
Actually very interesting video like nearly all at this channel :3
Ok, I absolutely love watching your videos. they help me A LOT with my own writing :-)
Can you please, please, please do a book review of Shad Brook's Shadow of the Conqueror??? PLEASE? I (and others) would love your input simply because of your knowledge of setting v plot v character progression. You're amazing, keep writing, stay nerdy.
this like the best writibg channel on RUclips .. I love all the contant.. THANK YOU ❤
This video will be useful for me, thank you for making it.
Him: use campfire to sort your things for your book.
Me: *states at my A3 paper of a rough map and the 7 pages of town maps and names along with a small book full of character sheets and scrapped ideas*
Congrats on reaching 700,000 subs
All hail Supreme leader Mishka! Your spirit lives on in the REVOLUTION!
Sounds like it's going to be a banger thanks again Future me
I'm not a writer, I just love these videos and how relevant they are
I rarely comment. This video was worth breaking that. Really informative and useful content. Thank you
I believe an often ignored premise is that many of the aspects in our classes are expressions of human nature or cultural norms in different socio-economic environments.
Basically, the when you remove the ruling class, and put lower class people in the position, they quickly begin acting similar or equitably to their predecessors, because they now inhabit the socio-economic environment their predecessors once did. It may look different but only in appearance. Consider the French revolution, where several governments came into power, and each collapsed because they, in the end, were effectively too similar to the ones they replaced. Because the upper and lower class are both from the same species, and most differences aren't derived from differences in natures, but differences in opportunity and socio-economic environment.
Consider the friend on tv who becomes a terrible person because he becomes rich/popular. It wasn't him who changed, it was the manner in which he expressed his full nature due to a less restrictive socio-economic environment. He's still a terrible person when he becomes poor/unpopular again, but now he doesn't have the opportunity/environment to display it. But unlike the individual (who can be a good person even after gaining fame/fortune), the masses tend toward the lowest common denominator because that's how averages and populism works. So on the mass level, any large group of humans will have the same basic nature, even if their manner/opportunity to express that nature is different.
Not only are the new ruling class people; they're people who grew up in the same system they're replacing, so all their unstated assumptions about how wealth and power work are based on those same principles, and they naturally default to the same behaviour. "It's our turn to live in big houses and boss people around".
@@rmsgrey That is absolutely true. Their socio-economic environment leaves a general blueprint of how to respond to it. Of course, we tend to see the same general principles come to light in almost all cultures. Merely a differently constructed interpretation of base human nature and instincts.
@@unigaming9921 Also, unless you have a very big broom to make a clean sweep, most of the institutions will persist - the same farmers will grow the same food and take it to the same market towns. The same community leaders. The same petty bureaucrats. The same news reporters.
So much of the system will be the same and you'll need to either work within that existing system, or spend a lot of time and energy devising a new one and ramming it down the throats of an ungrateful population...
@@rmsgrey Absolutely. The bones of the socio-economic realities are maintained, and combined with cultural ideas of class and human nature, it's unlikely to ultimately move too far from the previous model.
I feel that, no matter what we do, simply removing one class and putting another class in it's place won't change anything, because it relies on the premise that one class is fundamentally different in human nature to another.
what you described was the transition between class societies with the maintenance of minority rule - specifically unproductive minority rule. it would be different if the class that took power was the productive, majority class.
Love the soviet vibe in this one!
For the revolution!
Yay, you're back to keep my sanity at bay!
That makes me think in my book, class are not formally presented, but I think it doesn't need. Although I can do a reference about them since the main villain just want to end up with all the system, in a world which everything works like a clock, and richness and poverty are tabu.
Amazing as always, Sir! *claps enthusiastically*
Damn, HFM. Didn’t know you were joinin the revolution.
Tim: "How did we get from a slave society to a free one? From feudalism to capitalism?"
Me: *laughs in student loan debt, suppressed wages, and crippling existential dread*
I love my freedom
To starve and commit suicide
You didn't have to get student loans. That was your choice, there were other options.
@@sienna2379
Indeed. He could have accepted living on slave wages the rest of his life. Working 80-100 hour work weeks just to feed himself while men fresh off their three day work week look down on him and call him "lazy".
@@Ironysandwich But remember, those people EARNED all that wealth, they just worked that much harder than the rest of us!
@@spikem5950 very western thought...or assumption.
I think now is a good time to point out that we need a *GLOBAL PEACEFUL REVOLUTION* towards a culture of cooperation and a sustainable, just and emancipatory society.
You know a video is good when it has "ARE COMPLICATED!!!" this early on.
NEEEERD!!!. God I love your intros... never change.
Another great masterclass!
This is quality revolutionary input but, comrade, must you really use the Resist Fist to represent generic power within systems, especially while referencing that systemic power which is so often inherited and withheld from the very masses that fist was intended to unify?
Just feels a little wishy-washy. Enjoy your tea and biscuits!
Well, yes, because the communists always concentrate power into the hands of the ruling class. The people who use the 'resist' fist may as well be begging to have their power taken away from them.
@@o00nemesis00o wow I can't believe communists are the ones who write tax codes and labour laws that have concentrated power and wealth into less than 1% of the population. You sure taught me!
@@o00nemesis00o Dude, not every communist is a leninist
@@somethinguncreative2634 Yes, and they get the ice axe.
@@rahul87184 Nah, we just get brain trauma by 9mm after revolting in Catalonia or the Ukraine
Great video. I just wish the gag with Lenin climbing out of his glass coffin would have been used more often.
I'm worldbuilding a world based on what happens in a Swords-and-sorcery setting when more and more people gain "the power of an adventurer," the power to change things on a scale usually restricted to the protagonists of a story...
When everyone is a protagonist to their own story.
When anyone can become an orcish warlord if they fight hard enough, or a powerful archmage if they study creatively enough, or an assassin capable of overthrowing governments if they train correctly, Etcetera... what remains of Class? When, if a peasant trains their chi they can learn to deflect crossbow bolts and punch through steel armor, what stops them from deciding to no longer be a peasant?
same thing really, just that personal power like that add to the other complex ways wealth and power is maintained, and probably a higher degree of instability. but there would still be an upper class, it's just that upper class would have those adventurer types either being the upper class themselves or rigidly controlled and used against each other to maintain the status quo.
@@EvelynNdenial or, as it is in mine, the upper class has to protect and please their population to prevent uprisings or turmoil, and any long-standing kingdom has to maintain magical or otherwise powerful help from experienced adventurers to not fall to powerful brigands, external invasion, reclusive but dangerous mad scientist types, extreme idealists or cults, or other potentially kingdom-destroying threats, like that Dragon that figured out Arcane Mastery and overthrew * that * kingdom over there.
@@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606"any long-standing kingdom has to maintain magical or otherwise powerful help from experienced adventurers"
that right there. whatever government or upper class that runs the societies would make damn well sure they had that sort on their side. either naturally as the adventurers overthrow and become the new nobles or by some sort of coercion. once every nation has powerful adventuring types fighting for them the adventurers just become another military resource, basically just like knights.
if any new adventurers appear and cause trouble you send your own army of adventurers to deal with them. if there are enough of them to challenge your whole army well then it's just a war like any other.
@@EvelynNdenial Sort of. In my setting, magic is very much integral to keeping societal structures in play; larger kingdoms have teleportation circles for bulk resource transfer, enabling empires; as he explains in his video on those, and some cities have powerful sanctuary spells written into the foundations by eldar the wise, a wizard born 300 years ago, or something, that prevent malevolent acts and bring crime to zero in the city borders; relics of great magical feats of adventurers past aid in the kingdoms that stick around, a nations crown jewels emitting an antimagic field to prevent charmed rulers, or sets of heavily armored trade convoys pulled by Golem Teams. No matter how many adventurers a kingdom hires, any longstanding kingdom has magical protections and assistances that have ensured their prolonged prosperity in a world of powerful heroes and villains; A good kingdom has special graveyards that protect from necromantic resurrection and grow internal spaces when necessary; every farmer in a long-lived empire can look over at the collossus protectors in the distance. If a kingdom doesn't have protections like that, they fall to wilderness.
@@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606 I feel like a long standing piece of magic that “stops all crime” requires that you first get deep into the philosophy of laws.
Is this basically the equivalent of a few of the first 10 commandments, like “do not murder” (where if you try to run someone through with a knife, it simply bounces off, unless that person came into the city without the permission of the city guards (in order to allow the people of the city to kill invaders)), “do not steal” (in which case the definition of stealing would need to contain the definition of the maximum tax rates that can be imposed on the population).
Relating to point 4, in ASOIAF, Dany forms a council in Mereen. She has four chief advisors: Ser Barristan, a foreigner like herself who just wants to leave.
Skahaz Shavepate. A member of the great families of Mereen, but from an impovrished one
Reznek mo Reznek. Also a member of the great families, and also a member of the City’s former ruling council
The Green Grace. A woman from a great family AND religious leader of Mereen.
All of her councilors save Barristan are from the Slave Owning and higher power class. Her husband, Hizdar, is from that same class as well, being the richest man in Mereen. She literally just turned the old power structure into a monarchy with no civil change, save for the fact that there are indentured servants instead of slaves.
Also, when Hizdar replaces the Shavepate with his cousin to rule the military order of Mereen, the Brazen Beasts, the beasts are still loyal to Skahaz
Okay, one time purchase instead of subscription is enough to convince me to check out campfire!
5:12 gradual doesn't mean by itself "healthy". oppressive class systems are by their nature violent. is forcing people to live in poverty not harmful? many people suffer every waking moment under oppressive class systems, so fast change can be necessary. the violence of oppressive class systems is normal to many that live under them, and so, transparent, invisible. the violence of a fast rebellion is abnormal, and so, very visible, but not necessarily more violent then the normal violence of the previous class system.
6:45
Was not expecting that, and I had to pause the video because I was laughing too hard to pay attention
Narrows bridge at 0:49. Nice bit of history
Love to see Lies of Locke Lamora get some love. Scott Lynch's books are fantastic.
The book of D’ni involves some interesting looks at this. So does the book of Ti’ana. The book of Atrus has less along these lines, though the scenario on age 5 is interesting from a class systems perspective.
I'm kind of early for once I guess??? Idk I'm just excited to watch this video, and even though I'm not writing anything right now, it will probably help me with future projects.
One series nobody knows about is the Motherlines series by Suzy McKee Charnas. The first two books are very second wave feminist sci fi about escaping a corrupt system and discovering the "ideal" system has problems too. The second two, written two decades later in the 90s, are about navigating the overthrow of a corrupt system in a very messy, human way.
You should put these in a blog posts where we can read it and make notes!
that footage of the narrows bridge in tacoma is crazy :48
Hello. Just a thought for a topic I've not seen addressed: On ATLA / LoK there's a lot of discussion about The Spirit World, but this does not seem to be The Afterlife as in where a human soul passes once it leaves the mortal body. Other than Iroh, who once again seems to be an exception to the norm, you don't see the souls of the departed in the Spirit World and the only appearance of any sort is when the avatar is communing with their past selves. So, it might be interesting to examine why The Spirit World is not The Afterlife.
you should make a podcast about making books I mean you already got the audio for it with the whole of this series so it be gud
"how did we get to a slave society to a free one, how did we get from feudalism to capitalism" that Capitalist freedom xd
The definition of of ruling elite changed.
It's the only one with property rights and freedom of trade, people just don't always use those rights in ways that directly benefit you.
@@nickcampbell5626 Slave society had property rights for slave owners and a Capitalist society has property rights for the bourgeois
What property rights do most people have when the 1% own the majority of the wealth and property? What property do we even have rights over?
@@iheartblock3792 i know right
An addition to the plague part. There where major colonization attempts in eastern Germany in the 13th and early 14th century ("Ostkolonisation"). The farmers who settled there had a lot of space and where therefore relatively wealthy. This changed whith the black death. Workforces where scarce and the landowners forced the lower classes to stay where they are. So the plague solidified the "Güterstruktur" (estates structure?) in these parts of middle Europe. Another example where plagues can also be a force, which additionally enforces already existing class systems.
LOVE the Elder Scrolls example!!