REBELS - Terrible Writing Advice
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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The revolution is here! Rebel against the evil empire and fight the power while ignoring the messy reality of real life rebellions. Jump aboard before it completes its revolution and everyone finds themselves back where they started!
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You forgot that the rebellion isn't given a name. It's always just called 'The Rebellion' or 'The Resistance' so that they can have a 'Welcone to the Resistance/Rebellion' line when the main character first enters the main base.
La resistance is standing up against the Naz- I mean the oppressive regime. Join them now
RIGHT!? Thats so stupid! I mean sure, common revolts that just sprout up out of desperation are one thing to be nameless, but the rebellions we see so often arent just random rioters or revolters, they are actually fully organized rebellions! The hilarious thing is that The Rebel Alliance technically gets away with it because, well, its an alliance of different rebel groups from across the galaxy pitching in to support the war effort.
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 The Rebel Alliance isn't their proper name though. Their proper name isn't mentioned in the Original Trilogy. The Alliance to Restore the Republic
@@zoesequeira5388 Are we sure that this isn't just a retcon? Because George and many Star Wars writers make a lot of things up.
@@balabanasireti It's in cannon and legends, whether it's a retcon or not I can't say. Not sure anyone can tell at this point
The Rebels are terrorists equipped with the most powerful item of them all made out of the material called plot armour.
I thought they were equipped with "being told they're the good guys"?
Yeah them always having the main characters on their side really helps them out in their endlessly waged wars
That could be ok, if it’s supplied from somewhere
And Ewoks.
@@juansantos-lq2kz ah roving death teddy bears with their doom spears seriously those mother fuckin' spears hurt! go play hunt on endor with sw battlefront
I love how the cycle of "the evil empire arises again so rebellion must happen again" is literally the plot of France in the entire 19th century
And almost all south America
Off and on in the 18th century as well. My aunt is more the French (and English) history buff, but anytime someone says something is set in "the French Revolution", she's like, "which one?"
@@octapusxft South America, Africa, Central & SE Asia... Although it's hard with all of those to say how much was internal cycles of rebellion, and how much was corruption by outside forces. Lot of proxy wars have been fought in post-colonial lands.
Cough, cough *Disney star wars* cough, cough
It's called the Long 19th Century for a reason
don't forget about how killing the emperor causes the empire to instantly vanish without a trace
Right? No need to acknowledge inconvenient things like war crime trials, the monumental task of reforming an authoritarian regime to a more democratic system, restoring law and order in any meaningful way, or least of all dealing with international factionalism.
@@aarondevaldez9134
Or the possibility of the rebellion continuing that same system, just with different victims and meaning of words.
Until he comes back from the dead thru cloning and dark magic.
Maybe they really ARE lizard people, and they operate on a hive mind!
like when a dungeon collapses because the final boss was propping up the ceiling
Fun fact: the Rebel Alliance is never called The Alliance to Restore the Republic once in the Original Trilogy
I am thinking about dropping out of school to focus on my career as a star on RUclips. I already make a lot of money on RUclips. School bores me so much. I need more opinions and since I don't have any friends, I gotta ask you, z
@@AxxLAfriku do RUclips as a hobby and jump in if you make enough off it to do it as a job
@@ZontarDow Dude's a spam commenter that does a bunch of BS comments to try and get people to click on his channel.
@@leemurweeks ah, see I wasn't aware of this type of spam because I never click on people's channels
That is true!
It's funny how IRL, rebellions always had strong ideologies to keep them unified, but in fiction they're always milktoast
milktoast
milquetoast
milktoast, now there’s a new insult i can use
“but v, don’t you mean milquetoast?”
“no, shut it, milktoast”
Hehe, milktoast?
I suspect that comes from a combination of the fact that the video mentions of people not wanting to get too "political" about it but also...
Most of the people writing about these fictional rebellions are probably at least relatively comfortable inhabitants of rich Western countries. Even most of us posting here in this comments section *probably* haven't experienced the cruel reality of living under the rule of an oppressive government that kills those who oppose it. Most of us don't really have experiences comparable to the common people of 18th-century France, 1979 Iran, or 1917 Russia. We probably don't have much real connection to the hard existence of a starving French peasant or an Iranian dissident who got thrown in jail by the Shah's secret police.
Most of us don't understand that potent combination of anger and desperation that spurs revolutions. Most of us haven't been in the position of having to fight for a chance at liberation from tyranny even when we face the significant possibility of our own deaths.
The "rebellion being vague and undefined" part makes me think of an idea of a story where there actually isn't any organized rebellion going on; everyone is just really confused and thinks that there's a rebellion because everyone keeps talking about it. That's why nobody knows where their base is, or how they're structured, because they don't actually exist.
1984?
@@paulenan9636 That's more like the government making it up as part of propoganda, isn't it? I was thinking more, it's not really being made up by anyone, it's really just a big misunderstanding, and played for comedy.
Well we had earlier this year anti lockdown riots in the Netherlands, but it turned out it were in the majority just people who wanted to riot and loot.
@@firockfinion3326 eh, kinda. IIRC, nobody, not even government big-wigs, knows whether the rebellion, or big Brother, actually exists, as nobody dares to ask any question that would get them on the bad side of the system.
But yeah, it is not very comedic, that's for sure
just mass hysteria over a desired insurrection? that'd be brilliant.
I remember my Polish history teacher saying to us something like this "you know, if we didn't eventually win our independence many of our freedom fighters would be considered terrorists nowadays"
*Palestinians:* same 😞
"A rebellion is only illegal if you fail."
Americans: Same
The Poles are based. Having the unique historical perspective of living under both the Not-see, and communist rulings, and they reject BOTH says something to me.
Indonesian here, yup, that's how the Dutch called Indonesian freedom fighters as "extremists" to make them look bad. Took a whole decade of war of attrition until the Dutch run out of money and left.
Fun fact : George Lucas actually wanted to make the sequels about rebuilding a stable democratic government but it's too serious and political so it got scrapped. Now what we got is basically a reskin of OT.
I am waiting for a show that happens after ROTJ that focuses on that. See the building of the New Republic.
There could even be split with the First order slowly building in the back ground. Like we know in the Madalorian that lots of stormtrooper bases are still around.
The Legends novels and comics show this really well I feel like. Hell, there was even a point when the New Republic and the Empire came to a cease fire with their own portions of the Galaxy, with non force users in charge of both. Seriously, the Emporer position was held by a former Naval officer that was by all accounts a decent guy.
Honestly, this would have better natural sequence of events rather than the glorified fanfic that was made
Disney is the evil empire at this point. They had to spew propaganda instead of showing how to build democracy.
That would be an interesting concept with fighting between more Left-wing parts of the rebellion fighting liberals and then competition between the theocratic Jedi and a secular government.
Terrible Writing Advice's most underutilized force. It's great that we are learning how to write them perfectly in further fiction
i feel like ive seen the same comment before, am i a time traveler?
@@justsomeguywithtb2953
My simplified answer:
In a way we all are.
My original answer:
Well, if you did watch one of his videos in the past and have seen a comment similar to the one you replied, then yes. You are a time traveler.
Although you can only travel moving forward in time, without accelerating time.
Edit: Or déjà vu.
Nah, half of the episodes nowadays are made of ads
Also, the rebel leader must be completely clueless about how their country actually functions, and have next to no knowledge about politics, economics, or anything else required to effectively run a country. Bonus points, if they also believe that anything bad only happens because of the evil emperor and will magically disappear, once they come to power.
Also, the protagonist must always be the rebel leader by the end. Even if they've only been part of it for 2 weeks, and have no background knowledge regarding statecraft.
To paraphrase Vetinari from Discworld: It's all well and fine overhtorwing a government, but then someone still has to take the trash out
Complex political and socioeconomic problem don't just go away because of a successful rebellion. In fact, it may as well just exacerbate it, combine that with the fact that they will most definitely lack/don't have knowledge/experience in politics, economic, or anything else to run a government, it's a recipe for disaster, instability, and tyranny. And because of that, they will most likely use the knowledge/experience of the "expert" from the regime they've just overthrown (just like you know who if you watch the news)
@@commissarf1196 Oh, like pirates!
So, political activists in a nutshell then?
I think Half-Life 2 handled the resistance/rebellion aspect well due to it not being some niche political extremist or generic freedom group trope but humanity desperately uniting against an existential alien threat (the Combine) who have suppressed humanity's ability to reproduce, with mankind now staring down extinction or worse forced into eternal servitude to the Combine as a soulless husk of what it was. Things like politics and the rest can wait until the far more urgent problem is dealt with.
And the reasons why they have more people on their side is because them beating you down but giving you slightly above the requirement for life if you betray your species,plus having the bonus of only impossible chances of survival outside of the cities.and when your too far into their side your changed into a dime a dozen emotionless soldier without memories before the combine.
Yeah the HL2 Resistance is the best fictional rebellion imo
@@missingtexturez Honestly after Nova 6, you don't see a whole lot of Metro Cops, I imagine most just joined the rebellion
That's also political, rebelling against the current order is most certainly political. Political philosophy is about who gets what and how much of it, the combine are the ones who determine that, as such, they are a political entity.
But every rebellion needs a love triangle!
It would be really interesting to have a book where the main goals of the rebellion are literally 'freedom, and destroy the evil empire', but the rebels also have to fight slowly fizzling away into factions because they don't agree on what exactly that actually means.
Edit: wow, well this started some discussion. I guess there's still a lot of history and media I don't know, even now! Thanks for the recommendations....
"Mah Freedumbs includes having the freedumb to take away your freedom!" "NUH UNH!" "How dare you infringe my Freedumb! You're just like the Evil Empire, I will destroy you!"
It's not too far off what happened in both Syria and Afghanistan (after the Soviet retreat).
@@ANWRocketMan Yep the US revolution was on of few successful ones that didn't immediately get followed by a civil war.
It kinda happened in the old Star Wars EU. The “fluid” (attractive to every opportunistic a**hole who got locked out of a cushy Imperial position), “diverse” (highly atomized cells) and “freedom-loving” (Ungovernable) nature of the Rebellion meant that when it came time to actually build a government, they were roadblocked at every turn because of all the stuff that the people who put them there were promised all kinds of incompatible stuff.
There is actually an interactive book called choice of rebels, where you can play as an idealistic leader of a rebelion and slowly loose your morals
To be fair, it’s common for humanity to join forces against a common enemy, and then turn on each other when the common enemy is gone.
Or even turn on each other while they are fighting the common enemy ( Spanish Civil War)
@@diegoolivaresgonzalez42 sino japanese war too
Even fight each other while fighting a common enemy. The Chinese Nationalists vs Mao's vs the Japanese, the French republic resistance vs. the Communist French resistance fighting over control of Paris while fighting the Nazis, and so on and so on. You can bet the Afghanistan tribes and rival groups are doing the same right now.
Not to mention the obvious case of Syria, where the ideologies of the rebels are so incredibly mixed that any time they get close to accomplishing their goals, a group breaks off (in this particular case, some of the most evil, such as ISIS and that one other group before them, not even going to try because each time I do I accidentally say the name of an Arabic newspaper).
Thing is, this contrasts with portrayals like Star Wars, where they are all bizarrely cohesive besides the only common factor being wanting the empire destroyed.
Mujahideen after Soviet Afghan war
"I was like the only character who looked like he was having fun in the prequels"
Well yeah. Palpatine's specialty wasn't combat, it was subterfuge and more importantly, the power of Prediction. He literally got to tell Anakin his evil backstory and plans to conquer the galaxy knowing he was gonna win. I'd be a moustache-twirling maniac if I had knowledge destiny was gonna make me win too.
Well, I mean he was actually incredible when it came to combat
@@lumethecrow2632 True, however that wasn’t Palpatine’s specialty.
Not so much prediction as it was manipulation. He planned pretty much everything, and whenever hiccups happened he quickly found ways to get things "back on track".
That was the scary thing man. When you really get into his plans, you realize there is literally no way he could have lost. He built up this super intricate and all encompassing plan (*clone troopers and Anakin*) throughout the empire, then set it off within two-three days. It's actually kind if terrifying.
Thank you for your input Major Von Strohiem
You forgot, always make sure that the rebel idealogy is perfectly alligned with every major institution in the west. After all, what is a rebel group whose goals are not 100% the establishment’s own goals in real life.
And also not to forget, always call your good guys “the Rebels”, even if they are the current established government.
This sounds way too close to reality it is no longer gonna be labeled fiction. Lmaoooo
@@1911Zoey also sounds like the nu wars saga.
Is that a bad thing?
It drives me mad that they call the resistance "rebels" in the new star wars movie even though they're the establishment.
Who was Leia's Paramilitary "Resisting"?
I also just love the fact that the Rebels somehow often seem to have an infinite supply of weaponry with no apparent origin, despite the fact that the Evil Empire is allegedly VERY controlling and powerful and would absolutely have the means to cut off their supply before they even get started....
Plot twist, it was the evil empire that supplied them and did so to sphere the rebels and the empire into a cycle of perpetual civil war. How evil.
@@orrorsaness5942 I admit, it does make sense for a goverment/organization to take over their enemy faction (which is done surprisingly often these days) by supporting them and eventually either dismantling them or using them for their own cause... But supplying weapons is a little different. If you're paying them, usually you pay them to calm the frick down, not to murder your people with your own guns.
The rebels have a lot of sympathisers within the empire and the various corporations that manufacture the weaponry and X-wings
@@beeg8615 Yeah… makes sense
@@blueteller I mean Pakistan and USA does it with the Taliban probably, so…
The Evil Empire does so to skip the whole paying them money thing and The Evil Empire thinks it’s cheaper to do so. If the rebels will just buy weapons anyways why not just give them weapons to keep up the fighting? Also, the more the rebels fight, the more imperial sympathizers would want to be kept safe from them. The more they want that the more the Evil Empire can make laws to oppress their citizens harder and make money off of it. Also, this can give the Evil Empire an excuse to raise taxes to fund their torture chambers and anything else they want to buy.
Seriously "Life of Brian" is the best movie abut rebellion, moral dilemmas, competing rebel faction and that ending.
"Surely we should be united against the common enemy!"
"..."
"...THE JUDEAN PEOPLES' FRONT!!!"
HES THE MESIAH
200th like
Peter Griffin
What have the Romans ever done for us?
3:25
The "no lower classes allowed" thing was actually an issue in some irl rebellions
For example, one of the reasons why November Uprising (event in Polish-Russian history) failed is that the rebel forces were made up of only nobles. No one wanted to recruit the peasantry because that would mean letting go of various privileges
Since we're on the subject, nearly the entire history of Poland after XVIII century is a streak of various (nearly all failed) uprisings
If you want to write about a rebellion and take an inspiration from some real history, then I think this is a potent source
From Poland the January Uprising may be the most amusing. "Let's rebel before Count Wielopolski's brilliant reforms pass and he becomes the saviour of the nation instead of us!"
Who would have thought, modern artists and architects never read Polish-Russian history?
> and take an inspiration from some real history,
Ha! Everyone knows that as soon as Standard European Medieval age™, with vikings, knights in full plate and inquisition ended, Europe took machine guns and went to WW2. There was literally nothing in between to take inspiration from.
Poland be like: All the rebellions are MINE
Don't forget 1848. Half of the reason most of those things collapsed was because they ran into entrenched systems that the Leaders of the Revolutions didn't want to deal with.
I had a scene in mind where one of our hero’s is told the truth that the emperor didn’t order the destruction of his village for a relic, rather that was simply a tactical decision made by a officer during the attack, the rebels radicalized him by saying that the emperor himself was the blame, when in truth the emperor doesn’t Even like to burn down villages for no discernible reason, they confront them on this after escaping
This vaguely reminds me of the star trek voyager episode nemesis
"I don't order the burning of villages. I merely leave my officers to do it but deny any personal responsibility and doing nothing to punish said officers while reaping any \benefits from the massacres."
"Wow, under Draco In Leather Pants rules, that's like personally saving the village."
@@Peteman oh he did punish them, but I get what your saying.
It's one of those things. The larger a nation or empire is, the harder it is to keep track of everyone.
I remember one scifi/fantasy story where that sort of conversation happened...village burned down because the rebels were using the area as a staging post, and mainly because the rebels weren't bothering with uniforms and often went through it, and they were after some rebels that had stolen a bioweapon.
I really wish I remembered the name of it, but the Empire in that universe didn't even, really, want to BE the Empire, they were originally running the equivalent to an interstellar bank and post office and got really tired to getting stuck in the middle of various groups that would start shooting at each other...often looting the banks and trying to blame the other side for it.
Cue them then needing to deal with hundreds of stupid rebel groups still out to murder each other and also targeting them directly now.
To make it even better, make the evil empire a strawman of ideology you hate, and the rebels the ideology you like. Just for that extra soapboxing.
Problem: There are a lot of legitimately awful ideologies that have suckered people over to them that NEED to have their guts shown so people can recognize it in their own society, i.e. fascism and "Anarcho"-Capitalism.
@@CrowTR0bot I was being sarcastic, TWA style.
@@CrowTR0bot i mean at that point you COULD just say "blah blah blah this story has me soapboxing about how the ideology that i personally agree with and is somewhat ok in practice is the best thing ever and vice versa", cuz if you're gonna dump politics into a story instead of making a post on social media, might as well let other people have fun soapboxing as well
@@CrowTR0bot Whatever you say, communist.
@@CrowTR0bot The sad thing is you don't realize the irony of your comment. Got right up on your soapbox lol. But I suppose it serves the point that revolutionaries usually lack a sense of self-awareness, which ultimately leads to them becoming what they once fought once power is within their grasp. Suddenly comrades become vicious competitors when the spoils are to be distributed and they realize that they have differences regarding the specifics of their ideology. It's even worse when the rebels weren't united by a common goal, but rather a common enemy.
There's also the part where the evil empire doesn't actually act that evil and just tried to stop the --terrorists-- rebels who are running around attacking things.
You don't have to be good, you just have to be slightly less evil than your opponent.
@@erikschaal4124 Or just have slightly more guns...
@@DonVigaDeFierro or propaganda
@@toob_noob4381 OR BOTH
Star Wars Rebels in a nutshell.
While starting on the first Star Wars MMO, I remember going to Coruscant, and the rebels were openly recruiting with big banners in the middle of a street, while people sold military grade weapons at random stalls, with no taxes and no police presence. Apparently, Papa Palpatine was actually just a huge libertarian the whole time, and the people of the galaxy just weren't ready for his style of freedom yet.
i want my recreational death star dammit!!
There was a Star Wars MMO that *wasn't* SWTOR?
@@HunterStiles651 it was called Star Wars Galaxies, and that game was GREAT
@@HunterStiles651 Yep, and it came out a year before World of Warcraft: one of the many dinosaur MMOs that were destroyed by that particular meteor, even if their corpses somehow managed to shamble on for years after.
All I remember of it was the above, dancing, and sadness.
@@bubbasbigblast8563 Galaxies wasn't really destroyed by WoW directly, higher ups in the company running the game decided that they had to completely revamp the game in order to make it far more like WoW, which destroyed a good portion of the player base
"Did I just accidentally turn my rebellion into a suicidal death cult? Whoops, looks like I made it a little too realistic."
This joke...is funny on so many layers.
I had a story idea years ago with the super dumbed down basic story explanation being: "The evil empire is just trying to balance the needs of all different groups and combating corruption while the heroic rebels run drugs, steal shit, do epic terrorist missions and get into regular hijinks. Will the super evil General be able to defeat them or will the ragtag group of rebels accidentally kill millions while caring more about a love triangle than the water supply of a country? Tune in next week to find out!"
@@KorianHUNActually that sounds like a really compelling deconstruction that could reflect and make you rethink rebels vs evil empire tropes.
Sort of like how the empire is Star Wars is supposedly evil but is really taking it down the right call? Considering the power vacuum and the consequences of taking out a central government that maintains order and makes everything run smoothly (no matter how corrupt they are) potentially causes the universe/world/country to fall into anarchy.
It’s an interesting take to question if fighting against the oppressive government is even viable in the first place. It questions rebellions and the moral actions of the rebellion. Considering they are taking out a functioning government that they might be ill equipped to replace in the first place, while leaving behind untold death and destruction that has a major impact on average citizens. You might even express the general distain for rebellion in the general public
@@KorianHUNActually pretty creative.
Not that Many
@@kaliyuga1476Only 9 out of 11 layers.
The only thing that would make this better is the love triangle.
Imagine a rebel girl who is in love with the main character but also is interested in the power that comes from the government.
Wait no that actually sounds interesting.
I meant they fall in love with someone else in the rebellion who is sort of an asshole to the main character and then he dies and the girl goes for the main character who barely talked to her at all.
Sounds like a New York Times best seller right there
Ok, but that would be a love corner, with the girl backed into it.
To make it a triangle, you need romance between the guys, too.
@@Kartoffelkamm I hate how so many so called “love triangles” are actually love angled lines. For it to be a true love triangle it must be at least somewhat gay
@@SorowFame Yeah, two guys backing a girl into a corner and calling it love, without any input from her, is the worst romance trope ever.
Kinda makes me want to get into romance writing, and then write a story where the female character is in that situation, but in the end it turns out she has a boyfriend.
The story is told exclusively from the perspective of one or the other guy.
And the point of the book is to highlight how guys in those kinds of stories don't care about the woman's personal life, opinions or preferences, but instead see her as a trophy to be won and possessed.
Which is why her boyfriend will show up with absolutely 0 foreshadowing on the last page.
@@Kartoffelkamm hey no joke if you actually do end up writing it I'd be interested lol
Also, Rebels groups should always be ideologically unified. Rebel groups never have competing factions with different interpretations of a shared ideology or even different ideologies altogether. Not that this ever led to problems for said revolutionary movements
Not to mention that the powers that be will intentionally confound the ideology with the rebel faction to sway public opinion against anyone holding said ideology as unpatriotic at best, and one of the rebels at worse.
*Laughs in leftist infighting*
@@Anelkia Precisely, I was thinking along the lines of the Greek and Albanian resistances to axis occupation and both of which led to infighting (both political and military) between the rebel factions
@@Anelkia True. I see those guys argue with each other more than they do with rightists.
@@Nick-zl5xf Or the unceasing war on Anarchists from the MLs
I like to use Jet from ATLA as a good example of a rebel. Even though he’s fighting against a corrupt kingdom like the fire nation, he himself was morally corrupted by his hatred for the fire nation. Often attacking innocent citizens of the fire nation and convincing his followers it was for freedom. His disdain for the fire nation came from an understandable place too. It wasn’t just fighting tyranny for tyranny sake you know, so you could empathize with him while also knowing he was still in the wrong trying to flood a fire nation colony.
Also Dimitry Yazov from The New Order: Last Days of Europe. His whole regime is built around the idea of revenge for what the Nazis did to Russia/The Soviet Union, and will work towards the eradication of all Germans as part of the "Great Trial," to the point of total nuclear annihilation of humanity.
Dune did this the best. Rebels seized a major resource using overwhelming horrible violence
Then the main character turned into a religious dictator
I love dune so much, finally finished reading it over the summer and it is my new favorite novel. I like the approach of using religion as a weapon, it’s extremely accurate to real-world scenarios.
Another book that also comes to mimd that did something similar was Mistborn series
@@Megafreakx3 never heard of it. Worth reading?
@@ctrouble2309 Yes, the first era (the one I am talking about) is the first three books. Just a heads up that it is an early work of Brandon Sanderson, so there are some ruff spots, and book two has some dry spot (just read with audio, maybe). But it is worth it. There is a RUclipsr called Daniel Greene that has cover this book series for a while.
@@ctrouble2309 Yes. Yes, extremely worth reading. All the characters get their own stories and arcs that intersect in just the right ways, each book of the trilogy is actually a different kind of book (the first is a standard quest, the second more of a mystery, and the third a game of wits) so they do not trip over each other or get repetitive, and the conclusion is based in all kinds of things from earlier in the series that suddenly gain new meaning. It's obvious how much planning had to go into it; basically the opposite of JP's advice. I recommend it highly.
A neat take on the story would be to set up what looks like a generic YA novel rebellion arc, but to have the protagonist slay the Emperor at the end of the second act of the first novel, and witness the collapse of the empire into blood-soaked anarchy in the third act while his erstwhile allies start purging one another over ideological disputes.
Then the rest of the series follows the protagonist's cat-herding mission to bring peace to the realm he broke in the first place.
Alternate idea: The YA protag successfully overthrows the government, becomes the new establishment’s most recognizable enforcer and slowly but surely turns into the villain they once fought.
@@BlackCover95 Fable 3 is that you?
If I remember the Bible correctly King Solomon started out good but then turned evil.
@@icecreamhero2375 I think that's Saul you're thinking about. Or maybe David, with the whole Uriah thing.
@@turtek12 Ah silly me.
Once in 9th grade English I basically wrote a short story of a man finding out that the “rebellion” he was fighting for was straight up a terrorist group and caused a moral dilemma
and eventually is suicide
Suicide... bombing?
Post it
@@Warsie I would but unfortunately it’s on my school email and I graduated last year
@@laserdiscisawesome1263just post it! I fuckin beg you!
@@vondantalingting no I mean like I no longer have access to it or else I would
The most important part is to never bring up their plans for a postwar reconstruction, or governmental transition of any kind
works with communist revolutionaries too.
@@guillermoelnino 5 years and everything will be fine, right? Right?
Empire overthrown = instant democracy while the corpses are stil warm.
i liked that about the last Eragon book. The villain is defeated like 2/3 into the book and the rest is figuring out how to actualy rebuilt the country and establish some kind of structure. The series has some problems but that part was done well
@@the_corvid97 don't question it.just obey your communist overlords
I was thinking of a story where you have what is basically a supersoldier who defects from the oppressive government to join the rebels only to end up fighting with rebel politics as much as he's fighting his old allies. A lot of stories don't really acknowledge the fact that in most rebel groups they really aren't on the same page. Like the soldier wants to replace what he sees as a few corrupt elements ingrained into the system, which puts him at odds with many other rebels due to them wanting more drastic changes or disagreeing with what exact elements need to be replaced.
That sounds really good. Revolutions are never clean. They're always messy.
This is why i really find a bit unrealistic when the rebel group gets a happy ending after they defeat the previous regime, shit always gets dirty after that with purges on all sides until the one with the "more guns diplomacy" win the pecking order. Also, it is always forgot that, we like it or not, even the most corrupt and douchebag government have untouchable irreplaceble people on its ranks even after its colapse just because of their unique skills and knowledge of the country would absolutely help on the reconstruction... or to form another tyranical government.
In that scenario, the supersoldier would come off as naive and self-destructive if they think the problem was a few nasty individuals that somehow seeped their way into the system rather than seeing the system itself as the problem for having allowed said nasty individuals to obtain powerful positions
@@carbodude5414 well he is a super soldier. Trained to act in command, rather than to oversee the whole situation. So, all he sees are 13 good soldiers in his unit. 1 bad captain with 2 exploitative dicks in the unit and maybe a strict commander.
So, it would make sense for him to believe that the system is perfect, bar a handful of system exploiters.
Also let’s ignore the hypocrisy of the super soldier using the super mech powers given to him via unethical monsterous experiments and how he uses them to straight up murder otherwise harmless scientists. It’s not hypocritical, if I use the weapons of mass destruction after all
You just described the Mexican revolution.
i’d say the hunger games’ revolution was well-written, considering how theirs employed blatant propaganda and war crimes just to achieve their goals, which ended up being just a coup for power.
not to mention the protagonist was being forced into a mascot role and was almost killed for “martyrdom” for propaganda, all the while hating her time there and wishing for a normal life instead
Well, there is also the fact that district 13 didn't do most of the fighting. They mostly sent weapons and ressources to everyone else, and only then did Coin try to impose her own rule.
Hunger Games are terribly written.
@@Сайтамен in general, yes, but the Cold War nature of their revolution as well as the usage of propaganda and calculated war crimes by both sides is excellently done and well executed
@@cadenvanvalkenburg6718 it's also worth noting that part (the revolution and general plot of the overthrow) was what Suzanne Collins *wanted* to write, she was essentially forced to focus more on the romance since that was what sold but she's stated she was way more interested in the political aspects of her work and it shows with how well written it was
@@techissus7449 Bleh, a story way too common with writers. I hope she's doing better and writing more freely these days :(
Imagine if the protagonist of a story was part of a rebel organization, but turns against them after realizing their twisted agendas
Edit: to all the people sending me examples of this happening, keep sending them! I want to know more examples so I can get ideas on how to do it well myself!
I really liked how the Altered Carbon book series picked up that theme and inner conflict. First season of the series was pretty good as well, just forget the rest.
I too liked AC: Rogue.
I would read that story.
"main protagonist" is redundant: "protagonist" already means "main character"
Blakes 7?
This was simultaneously the best time and the worst time to release this topic.
release this a week earlier and it would age like fine wine and unpasteurized milk
Why?
@@vortigan9068 The fall of Afghanistan, I think.
@@hunterketch989 oh well then I think it's 20 years too late.
@@vortigan9068 why? Didn't you here afganistan fell recently to the Taliban?
Don’t forget the young female protagonist who manages to successfully defeat trained soldiers twice her size with the power of her innate goodness. Of course she’s definitely not a Mary Sue because she talked with the mentor figure once and that TOTALLY COUNTS.
I see you've been reading Empress Theresa 🤣🤣🤣
And how she always use that pinning move consisting in putting her legs around the bad guy's neck & spin around it.
Jyn Erso atleast had plenty of combat experience during her time with Saw Guerrera and his partisans
@@HangryOnPaws We do not speak of that abomination here!
@@HangryOnPaws Maria Theresa? the....Habsburg one?
The real rebels were the friends we made along the way
... And US armed and funded *"rebels"*
Damn. People still use this boring and old meme?
@@balabanasireti the business is getting likes and business is booming
@@balabanasireti maybe the boring and old memes were the friends de made along the way
@@Cherremy721 You fool...you forgot the one thing every businessperson learns from schooling! YOU MUST NEVER BE HONEST, YOU MUST DANCE LIKE A SNAKE AND REAP IN THE DOLLAR SIGNS, BABY!! WOOOOO!!
Also, the rebel leaders need to waste time butting heads for the position of leader by engagin in petty squables which would make a preteen girl wince. This can especially be bolstered by a love triangle and having two "Alphas" fight over who is the most in charge to impress the shared love interest more.
I think this was covered in Intrigue Plots.
A "night of long knives" should happen at some point. At least once The Rebellion has turned into The Empire.
@@johannageisel5390 what is that? Swordfight at night?
Far Cry 4
Make sure one of them is the clear main hero and the other one is obviously dark and brooding and is either the edgy rival with little character or basically a bad guy, no reason we should have the one opposing the main character have some correct views they don't have
How about a story where we're rooting for the rebels, but when rebels win it turns out that problems don't end with the evil empire, and the rebels start doing questionable or outright immoral shit themselves? Maybe not even because they were secretly evil, but just because they had no plan on what to do _after_ they've won.
Far Cry 4
Red Dead Redemption too, albeit you need to read the in game journals to know that.
So… Vietnam after The Vietnam War 🇻🇳, and Ethiopia after being freed from Italy?
Indonesia after getting independence from the Dutch, Egypt after getting independence from The British, Israel and Palestine, Congo, Democratic Peoples Republic of The Congo, Zaire.
This whole thing is just a case of Truth in Television.
Gundam…
No, okay, but I blew up the thing. I blew up the big thing. All evil should've lost and every economic and sociopolitical problem should've been solved.
Damn, this is the first time either of you got beat-out by other commenters...how does it taste, mustachioed blueberry man?
Suprise, they've built another big thing, and it's bigger than the previous big thing
They wont ever touch that because lets be real. People usually just watch it from the same plot over and over and with the funky leaders and the new recruit and blow up the government and dont get into a deeper dive of said affects or what has completely changed
Until the rebels inherit the evil empires debt.
@@wolfmanhccLmao 😅
Rebels are way more likable when they aren’t in the government...
yes. no matter how much they control the government they always tell everyone they're rebelling against it.
See Fidel Castro.
See Josef Stalin, Chairman Mao, Fidel Castro... Joe Biden perhaps???
Or lackeys of the government & media .
@@billysinge8977 did you... did you just fucking say Joe Biden? Lmao
💯% unhinged take
Trump ran as the rebel candidate, and people believed it even when he filled his cabinet with the corrupt establishment he pretended be against. He had an actual oil tycoon as his Secretary of State. Lmao hahahahahaha 🤣
I find it ironic that of all book series, the quintessential YA novel the Hunger Games did this really well. They start off as this hopeful rebellion fighting the evil Panem in the second book and by the end of the third they've used suicide bombers, executed POWs, firebombed their own people in a false flag attack, and are straight up hosting a retribution hunger games which was the very thing they were fighting against in the first place.
You’d like Robert Evans’ After the Revolution, cause it sidesteps a lot of these bad tropes. For example, the villains are actually a rebel group called The Heavenly Kingdom, a Christian Dominionist terrorist group. And the heroes (with one notable exception) aren’t super special people who single handedly bring down the bad guys. They’re tasked with a hostage rescue. It’s an incredible depiction of war, political radicalization, and trauma
I'm still catching up on that. Does the RX-9 Knife Missile ever get used?
@@MajorHickE In a way I guess. Roland commits some absolutely Raytheon tier war crimes
Is it about the Taiping Rebellion?
@@jojbenedoot7459 No it isn’t. It’s a science fiction novel set in the year 2070, 20 years after a civil war has balkanized the United States. It’s set in the right wing libertarian Republic of Texas, which has come under attack from the aforementioned Heavenly Kingdom. The writer explained in a Q&A that the Heavenly Kingdom is inspired by past religious fundamentalist movements, and so the name Heavenly Kingdom is an intentional reference to the Taiping Rebellion. The Kingdom in the book in terms of actions and ideology seems more inspired by the writer’s own prior experiences as a journalist covering both the Christian Dominionist movement at home and ISIS abroad. The book actually contains many in-jokes and references to his time as a conflict journalist in Syria and Iraq
@@connorwalters9223 If the writer has to explain it in a Q&A, then the story is shit
You and OSP need to do a crossover. In fact maybe you can do an episode on such.
Yeeeeeessssssss
I hope this comment blows up!
I wish I could like this an infinite number of times
Crossoverssss
I can already hear Red getting increasingly annoyed and frustrated with JP's egotism and terrible ideas.
Also remember, If the rebels do win then everything is instantly fixed and the empire/galaxy/country will turn into a peace loving democratic society that is perfect in everyway!
France : haha new government goes brrrrrrt on the civilians
Taliban: All I see is peace in my country after repellig the American pigs.
@@dereenaldoambun9158And everybody else will have to, if they want to -live- practice real Islam
@@dereenaldoambun9158look up those studies of Taliban fighters they are all "this sucks now we gotta actually Run the country it's boring and there's all this politics and they make us work as bureaucrats in an office or as traffic cops and I wanna quit but my commanding officer from the war harangues me because SOMEONE has to run the government" lol
@@WarsieLol 😅
You know he's bad news if he's listening to (curse-free) '80s punk in the present day. Parents are still shocked by "We're Not Gonna Take it," so keep using it to make your kids movies edgy! ...Oh. _That_ kind of rebel.
Ah, clean 80s punk. The rock and roll of the modern-day, middle-class white suburban world.
Or if you want to really add panache to a game such as Wolfenstien II
Oh don't worry, they'll just give it a deathcore remix to put the edge back into it that'll work, right "Wolfenstein: The New Colossus?"
Oh look everyone, JP is being topical.
Sadly, this topic is timeless.
When exactly would this not be topical?
@@jakesanchez6621 I'm sad now.
@@jakesanchez6621 Ancient egypt
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009 ancient egypt had plenty of rebellions. From internal coups, some ethnic uprisings, its levantine provinces being uppity, or just one Pharaoh decided he is just "teh coolzies" and starting a massive civil war, resistance is just as universal as war, since both are ultimately about trying to impose will with strength
The first Dishonored game did the Rebellion pretty nice.
Generally well meaning, the moment they get real power they start turning into dictators themselves. Depending on your chaos level, they are either less or more evil than the previous regime
I'm so happy to see Dishonored brought up here, it's literally one of my favorite games and one of the most underrated games in existence
The chaos level bit is actually kind of genius in its simplicity. The less chaotic the nation is by the time you kill the Lord Regent, means your former allies would have to use less tyrannical measures to maintain order and facilitate the transfer of power. The more chaotic, means they'll have to brutally suppress the populace to prevent a counter-revolution. It's good/bad dichotomy but with an actual ramification.
Yes
The fery theme was power corrupts
Which is why the best ending involves you not using your powers to be death incoming
@@spectroelectro3772yes
"Rag-tag" annoys the crap out of me. Why does every group have to be described this way?
cognitive dissonance of the US fetishizing rebels while spending the last 100+ years villainizing any domestic opposition to the status quo, committing atrocities to protect interests abroad, and also villainizing anyone who flees the violence caused by these policies.
Making the Rebels sound well organized and disciplined could drive focus away from the main characters and also possibly remind the audience of certain tropical countries who won their independence at a terrible cost from... the USA
Battlestar Galactica. ""Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest-for a shining planet known as Earth."
@@sabotabby3372 more likely because it more directly evokes underdog imagery that we see in all kinds of American media
Can we maybe noooooot have a politics-fueled filibuster of an answer to a more broad and neutral question? Pretty sure the answer is tied more to pop culture anyway
@@sabotabby3372 Or maybe a rag-tag group is easier to humanise with than a structured military with an extremist ideology
As someone currently writing a rebellion story, I'll be keeping this video close on my writing playlist
Oh you too? I’d like to hear about it
@@TheHawkeye0725 Alright, so. The two MCs arrive to a town/city currently preparing for their most culturally significant festival, which involves birds. The factions are:
-the ruling nobles, governing for themselves and giving the people the scraps. They are backed by the continental Religion but have been neglecting the religious taxes because Greedy;
-the rebels: used to be a single group of Robin Hood-style thieves, but then the nobles hired two runaway assassins as bodyguards and let them go to town on anybody caught stealing from them. This caused the rebels to split into two factions:
-the ones who lie low and steal less from less powerful nobles, thus having less to give to the people, while secretly preparing a massive heist on the day of the festival, when the nobles and their bodyguards will be out of their mansion;
-and the ones who want bloody revolution and constantly clash, and lose, against the nobles, and are not above stealing from and brutalizing the people because they want all the money and power for themselves. This has caused the people to resent the rebels and turn to support the nobles, because while they may be corrupt scumbags, at least they keep things running and only brutalize the guilty, or so they say.
Lawful MC gets jumped by the violent gang and has a very important McGuffing stolen from him, and Chaotic MC joins the heist plans because she's always up for crimes against nobility. Things get more complicated when the Religion shows up chasing the MCs and goes "you guys haven't been paying your taxes so we might depose you and install someone who does things our way". The violent group see this as the chance for their own coup, and the less violent group see this as an absolute clusterfuck that will lead to no good and scramble to protect the people and also accelerate the heist because there's a very real chance the nobles will run away with all their money before getting deposed
It's very much a work in progress, and I have no idea how I'll make all the parts fit, but that's what I've got thus far
Now I'd like to hear about yours
@@italeteller5144If it’s okay, can I share my story too? It’s also about rebels trying to overthrow a corrupt government.
My historical teacher once said :
" *Freedom* without order lead to *Chaos* , and
*Order* without freedom lead to *Oppression* "
I swear he said that in class when he explain something about conflict in Cuba or somewhere, sadly I slept in the best part.
Never sleep during class, folks
@@Speed_Zamaa Gonna try in another chance
@@joditiarsutrisno5556 👍
Hope he wasn't a lib who thinks Cuba is some authoritarian poor country, because it's not, it's not some utopia either but they're far from a dictatorship
You got more of those bud?
I don't think there was a better time to post this than right after the Taliban conquered Afghanistan
Dont worry, the USA initially told us the Taliban were freedom fighters... when they were on the same side
@@GinHindew110 they are whatever were told they are. to disagree with something your government says is fact is treason. i wish i was exadurating.
@@GinHindew110 Uh No, Taliban =/= Mujahideen, infact the Taliban fought the Mujahideen.
@@KezanzatheGreat I'm kind of wondering if the Capitol occupation isn't the most recent given that it fits the definition to a T. It was an action, beyond mere words intended to overthrow the US government.
@@KezanzatheGreat those in power wipe their ass with the constitution. we are living the dystopian nightmare those "crazy conspiracy theorists" warned you about for decades.
This reminds me so much about Transformers… namely how the Decepticons function… hey an evil rebellion - there is a interesting idea.
In the IDW continuity it was pretty nicely fleshed out. Megatron started out as an idealist who had some pretty damn good points about cybertronian society. Sadly, he had about as much experience with running an actual government as your average twitter revolutionary, and the fact that his first followers were nearly all a bunch of criminals, gladiators and menial workers, did not help either. Add a few million years of civil war, with having to expand because cybertron became an unlivable hellscape even by their standards, and you got yourself a tyrant who had to face a hard reality. The reality of having created a monster with the decepticon movement, one that could only exist in perpetual war, and he would have to purge his own ranks before building any functioning society if he ever actually won.
America already had one of those
@@_Muzolf what’s fascinating to me is that while the concept wasn’t finalized until the Aligned Continuity - there are hints of the concept since the Unicron Trilogy series
@@_Muzolf I really like the modern "Tragic hero who really, REALLY screwed up" version of Megatron and the MCU Loki-esque Starscream from IDW. It's much more interesting than the main two cons both being mustache twirling villains.
Plus, it paves the way for much worse villains such as Overlord, Tarn, and of course Onyx Prime/Shockwave to become the main threats instead of it always being the Megatron and Starscream show.
@@nobledamask Well you can also do that with a villain with either a moral code or requiring some level of order.
"RIP to all the racy jokes I wanted to insert here."
Even while steeped in satire, JP manages to keep it so real 🙃 rock on Bud
There was so much Real Talk in this one, I lost track of which parts were satire sometimes
I wonder what they even would be?
I honestly thought at about 7:30 he was going to say, "Americans are particularly fond of the 'Rebels versus Evil Empire' story, despite their society becoming more and more like the latter."
The amount of restraint JP has is unreal.
Hi, have you considered making a video on writing dialogue? I feel like making memorable characters that speak differently is pretty hard when you don't have much charisma in real life. Is there a way around that?
I'd say study certain social cues, charismatic people's behavior and how other people behave in their presence, live speeches like TED Talks, celebrity interviews, just anything with people talking.
As for timing, maybe simulate it in your head, write it down, then review it with someone else to gauge its effectiveness, and revise until it's good and to your liking.
@@airhead1320 Thanks for the advice. I still wish JP made a video about it, though. It's a pretty important subject.
Have you tried talk-to-type, and acting out/adlibbing how your characters are feeling? Just a thought.
There aren't really any "cliches" about dialogue, or I'm sure it would be next on the list.
What helped me is to first write the characters (their personality, their goals, their struggles, their ups and downs, maybe a bit of backstory, etc.) and then decide what their logical reaction would be in certain situations and how every character acts in a different way in said situation
All this good advice, and here I am thinkin' "Undertale".
Seriously, though. The dialogue in that thing is amazing, and they helped me with my own writing. Most everyone there has a unique speaking pattern, so studying them (as well as those of other games or books with a similar dialogue writing style) could probably help.
Also, Is it treasonous to say that I liked how a certain overrated/overhated game called Skyrim handled the concept of a rebellion, by focusing a lot on how it affected the citizens, and having quite a wide variety of views?
Or the duality of a puppet government vs rassist xenophobe rebels, who are better personally but not that much, mostly the thalmor
@@marocat4749 Skyrim belongs to the nords.
I think lore wise the rebellion in Skyrim is pretty well written. The problem is only how it lacks emphasis on the gameplay itself, since you as a character can do so many contradictory things and still get on the good side of everyone.
@@marocat4749 Stormcloaks are better for Skyrim but worse for humanity as a whole. Also Skyrim going independent is more narratively interesting
@@marocat4749 actually its kinda interesting how the game’s smaller details kinda imply that the thalmor are intentionally trying to make skyrim revolt so that they can invade 🤔
Just remember, rebels all have the same goals, which means they MUST have the same ideas on how to run things. I mean, how many times in history have rebels turned on each other in the ensuing power vacuum or even before then?
Syrian Civil War in a nutshell.
Iraq, Post-soviet war Afghanistan, Chechnya post Russian war, Mexico post Emmanuel III rule, DRC today
Russian Civil War, or the Chinese Revolution for possibly the best example.
@@KaiHung-wv3ulwhat about French Revolution?
How come everyone forgot Somalia? They turned on each other once the government was destroyed.
"But let's assume you want to tell a story were the rebels are the bad guys. In that case, do not spent time examining the lights and shadows of the ideology. The more justified aspects of their demands and actions, contrasted with the most unjustified.
Just make the rebel leader a carismatic cultist, violent and possesive! One that secretly does all of this not because he wants peace and freedom, but because he wants revenge! In that case, it doesn't matter how justified the claims of the rebels may be. The moment the leader is discovered as an evil murdering maniac, the whole movement should abandon and disappear. Their complaints and problems never to be heard of again. Not even addresed by the member of the main characters that belonged to the same group as them.
A side of the movement that now wants to accomplish the same, but by more peaceful and not violent means? Acting on the background as the main plot moves to other areas? Pfff. You can't make action scenes of those! Just forget about them and their very real suffering entirely, and focus on the next big threat coming."
Also, make sure the Good Totally Not An Evil Empire Federation send in the protagonist to squash what is the equivalent of a bunch of riots. Does it make sense for high command to send a one-man army and a whole fleet to slaughter the rebels mercilessly, even though most of them probably don't know how to hold a gun? Who cares! The Good Totally Not An Evil Empire Federation have the logistics to spare. Does the military occupation cause discomfort and discontent among the populace? Of course not! No good citizen of the Good Totally Not An Evil Empire Federation would ever be afraid when soldiers start blockading every street, demanding inspections.
@@teal_m_101 IKR? Requiring a card saying you've taken a shot just to buy food or drive from point A to point B is totally normal!
I think JP forgot a page of his script.
Amon be like
@@DolFan316 you already need a card for driving from point A to point B. It's called a Driver's License and is significantly more difficult to acquire than a vaccine. Regardless I don't think anyone is saying you can't drive anywhere if you're unvaccinated, you can still go to a friend's house or something. It's once you start traveling to different countries or into public places (or in some cases privately owned places) that there are rules.
Having restrictions based on public health aren't really remotely the same as having military occupation just present at all times. Having to show a card to get into a store is something any store could pretty much decide to do at any time, some stores already require memberships to get in.
I'm reminded of MechWarrior 4: Vengeance, wherein the "rebellion" fighting to "free" the Kentares system is, from the beginning, all about trying to install the "rightful" duke in charge of the system. Because replacing a "bad" monarch with a "good" monarch, you know, the one who happens to have the right position in the bloodline, is very much the meaning of "freedom"! This is never presented or perceived as ironic by anyone in the narrative.
you just gave me an idea for a story: the rightful heir is banished/removed by a relative and the heroes join a group trying to put the rightful heir on the throne, but the right guy is an incompetent loon and the only people who want him on the throne are people who have something to gain from a weak leader, extremists who want things done as intended; consequences be damned, and the protagonists who don't know better. meanwhile, the wrongful heir is actually competent and good at politics and serves as an actual threat to the protagonists
@@bloodstoneore4630 I would like to expand on that idea of yours.
There's an empire that has a legitimate son of emperor and empress and illegitimate daughter of empress and Duke. Due to Duke being genius at Court politics, extremely influential, and other factors; Duke managed to get legitimate son banished from the empire and got illegitimate daughter becoming an heir and will become the first female ruler if there are no intervention.
Illegitimate daughter was raised under Duke's protection and she became very competent at Statecraft and Court politics due to Duke's teaching. While she doesn't care about commoners' individual lives, she understands that having more people paying taxes under your rule is more profitable than not caring about them all. From her first-hand experience, she observed that paying the medical bills now will end up paying itself from taxation that came from recently healed individuals. She eventually set up a simple welfare system in her town during her training phase.
Legitimate son ends up at theocratic state which doesn't like the fact that the Empire is to progressive for them and a Female heir to boot. So they decided to help the legitimate son by using the summoning spell and successfully summoned a group of Japanese High schoolers. Through normal means, theocratic state convince high schoolers to fight against Empire and try to reinstate legitimate son as its rightful heir.
Legitimate son has a personality of a bastard and selfish due to his spoiled upbringing. Then something unimaginable happens, Emperor and Empress died in an accident. And thus, illegitimate daughter became new Empress and it caused a mid internal strife in the Empire.
The stage is set for a fight between group of high schoolers (and other sponsored rebel forces) and Empress for the fate of the Empire.
Welcome to Fed Sun politics.
@@dennisz1252 dude, that sounds so awesome. I would love to read a story like that
@@bloodstoneore4630 Already done, funnily enough also in mechwarrior.
Thought lrotagonist is fighting much less for some grand cause, and really only for a paycheck.
JP: "Poor, oppressed, and down-trodden people with little-to-no education, prospects, or hopes that can be easily radicalized"
Me, looking at the current state of my country: "I'm not laughing anymore..."
Don't worry your country will be fine.
As long as it's under my rule.
Exciting, isn't it?
Grab this gun and prepare
Give me your hopes and dreams
Where the hell are you anyway
Same
Far Cry 5: "This game about a revolution in a Latin American Country is going to be completely apolitical."
TBH, Ubisoft is probably right in doing so after the FC 5 controversy.
*Far Cry 6. 5 was the one with the cult
@@andrade9172 There are so many of them put out in such a short time that we can't even keep up anymore.
@@andrade9172 yup, a Christian death cult in rural Montana. Nope, nothing remotely political there. Not at all.
@@goofoffproductions The funny thing is how controversy and criticism Ubisoft and the FC team got for Far Cry 5 and they still do the same thing.
This is the channel that describes everything that you should avoid in a story, by using irony. That's very good.
And are you the channel that describes the obvious?
@@Rage_WinterchiIl Yes.
I feel like a lot of revolution stories aren't made to realistically depict revolutions and more so to make commentary on human nature to fight back
@@jonathansoriano3568 That doesnt excuse not having a jerk thats somehow evil they have to deal with, and communication of various fractions. And where they get the weapons from, it could be even outlandish and better than never saying why.
@@marocat4749 idk tengen toppa gurren laggan was a great metaphor... And one piece sun pirates weren't powerful but their symbol and meaning was. I'm just saying that as a checklist a lot of the examples are very situational depending on what you're trying to say not exactly nessecary. I will complain about hunger games but it's YA so ya know.
I think when it comes to rebellions, the short film "Rakka" (which is a short film avalible on RUclips right now) has probably one of the most realistic and multi-sided pictures of resistance groups and rebellions. In the film, there's one character that is a pyromaniac. He was probably considered a psychopath before the invasion, but now he's a valuable asset for the rebels. They have tk negotiate with him to gain access to his destructive arsenal. One day, he asks in exchange for a bomb the main characters to bring him some of the sick and crippled members of their resistance cell, so that he can blow them up. The main characters have to decide on whether they should save some of the sick members, or sacrifice them to get weapons for the resistance. A very gritty and brutal, but very realistic for a scenario like this. Also, quite refreshing. In nowadays fiction, rebellions are indeed treated as these completelu good and pure organisation, that get weapons out of nowhere
If your society is oppressed by an outside force, keep in mind that different groups of it may have a very different attitude towards the rebellion. If it's economic exploitation, lower classes may be effected harsher and have more motivation to rebel. If it's about culture or political power, it would be middle or upper classes (nationalistic movements).
Nationalist movements can arise from any segment of society. Both sides in the Chinese Civil War spent a lot of time stoking nationalism to bolster recruitment, and the Communists hardly had a particularly high-class power base
Exactly
Indeed. The french resistance for example spent more time fightimg the french resitance than it did ths nazis.
"it's not a revolution until it revolves back to where it started"
i- shit man....
I always love when a rebellion against the totalitarian evil is led by an OP MC that leads a rebellion unified by plot-driven mind-control. People need to be free to be controlled by the totalitarian that isn't racist/slaver-in-chief/rapist or whatever other puppy-kicking antics the totalitarians are responsible for. My favorites are the times when they're so against nepotism that their organization is weighted almost entirely to give MC and his friends all the resources.
Is this a Code Geass reference?
@@VAWM. I was thinking a lot more general and less explicit. The kind of stories that kingdom build and nobody ever betrays the mc or disagrees with their policies. And everyone in the kingdom is a model citizen.
@@gogroxandurractrue lol
"americans are particularly fond of the rebels vs evil empire story" damn i wonder why?????? so mysterious, perhaps we will never find out the answer
Yeah
Someone made a whole play about a guy part of a revolution
Some guy named Alexander or something
The USA really seems attached to it
The weirdest one there has to be dune.
@@marocat4749 I think most people didn't get it and totally missed that Paul wasn't the good guy/messiah but some guy who had been genetically manipulated to the point where he could calculate the future who then royally fucked the galaxy by touching off a crusade with his little plucky band of indoctrinated religious fanatics but wasn't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to ensure the survival of humanity and dumped that responsibility onto his kid who had to turn into a worm.
And then Brian got out the crayons and scribbled all over his fathers work likely out of barely repressed hatred.
@@sweethysteria8737 and he's not throwing away his shot
Remenber the old 1971 comedy movie "Bananas"?
U.S. Soldier #1: Any word on where we're headed for?
U.S. Soldier #2: I hear it's San Marcos.
U.S. Soldier #1: Are we fighting for or against the government?
U.S. Soldier #2: The C.I.A.'s not taking any chances this time. Some of us are for, and some us are going to be against it.
U.S. Soldier #1: Oh.
And most importantly, never question what might be wrong with rebel government's ideology and structure if the evil empire keeps appearing again after each revolution and stronger than before
Lol 😆
Que The Hohenzollern Empire til the middle of Part 5
I wanna say about 99.9% of teen fiction action novels unironically write like this
Lol
The gods have blessed me today with a TWA episode.
yes
TWA has a tendency to upload a new video right around the time OSP uploads another episode of Trope Talk. Since an episode of Trope Talk magically appeared a week ago, I just knew it was only a matter of time.
I must confess, at this point I'm here mostly to see the new additions to the TWA extended universe, the great writing advice is just a bonus.
"Hey, it's not a revolution until it revolves back around to where it started!" Sometimes the last lines of these feel like a punch in the gut from how real they are
Yeah, I definitely get the impression that some research was put into this.
The sponsor segment was absolutely hilarious.
For anyone that really wants to get into historical revolutions, I highly recommend The Podcast 'Revolutions' by Mike Duncan.
Here's a paradox:
What if by writing realistic but fictitious rebellions you give your audience a breathe of fresh air and your fan base increases in strength...
but what if, by writing a realistic rebellion your fan base turns against you as it showed the rebels in a bad light?
I often have these thoughts in mind and i usually end up doing a bit of both and end up no where :(
"but what if, by writing a realistic rebellion your fan base turns against you as it showed the rebels in a bad light?"
So your fan base would be rebelling against you?
@@HairyHariyama holy crap!! and if you use your fan base as an inspiration for a rebellion they might sue you!!
Just have some balls and grow fans that don't like seeing the same shit; You can do it buddy, I have the same vision as you do, what's your story?
FTL does that well (the game), the rebels depending on your game vary from human supremacists who definitely believe in the csuse, to those who see the federation as incompetent and want a better world helping random human settlements, to people who prefered the old federation but just saw its' government collapse from the rebellion and just supported what they see as the new government, etc....
i love this as someone who’s actually interested in the history of revolutions - all the stuff that writers tend to leave out is *the most fascinating part*! and as someone who’s generally pro-revolution i think we definitely still need to contend with the fact that a lot of revolutions have a dark side and nothing is as black and white as we want it to be.
agree, revolution especially violent revolution is war and war is terrible. You can say that revolution is necessary but you shouldn't be blind to the dark side of revolution.
@@Pancasilaist8752Basically, war is also romanticised in real life too. Just take the napoleonic war and ask a random guy who they think was great, he will say Napoleon, even though the man committed warcrimes.
Same is with Rebellion
after watching so many vidoes of terrible writing advice I finally understand how do make good stuff
Just ignore all the practical problems of things
Idealize the parts you like
Demonize what you don't
Push aside any *icky* stuff like
make it a black and white back and forth of good and evil
make sure everything the heroes do just works for.. whatever reason along with all tech no matter how unlikely
and just dumb everything down so a 5 year old could understand
I'm also a fan of the plot where whenever the good guys make a plan, something happens that prevents them from implementing that plan (sometimes making brand new plans four or five times during one assault on one enemy stronghold), and then they win. The end.
You forgot being hypocritical by making the "good" guys do exactly what the bad guys do, and using the justification of "There's no other way!", if any.
Also, Love Triangle
@@DonVigaDeFierro and not exploring that dynamic is any interesting way, actually making conflict by contrasting the good guys against the bad guys. No the good guys are nothing like the bad ones
Forget the dumbing down part and try dumping everything.
Pseudo-scientific info dumps for pages on end are what we all long for!
The more incomprehensible and nonsensical the story, the easier it is for me to call it a true work of art!
Yes, when you depicting Rebels may think about those guys from Rambo 3. And not the things happening currently in Afghanistan.
No way it is related:o
Underused rebels: two warring factions within a greater empire. One faction gets passive imperial support turning the other faction into a de facto rebel faction. Still, the goal of the rebel faction is gaining the upper hand on their opponent, and not to rebel against the empire or secede.
This happened from time to time throughout history.
Like Yugoslavia and the chetniks vs partisans
@@thebigerictbe5267 I was thinking about warring feudal lords within the HRE, but your example is a good one too!
@@thebigerictbe5267I wanna know the story, tell us all the story oh wise one!
US and Free Syrian army? I mean they funded them until they ya know ISIS got an idea
@@purest_evilI'm Serbian, so I'll tell you the story, even though I'm young and very much not an expert.
It all started during WW2. The chetniks and the partisans were formed as two rivaling factions fighting over what was the best regime for Yugoslavia after WW1.
The chetniks were monarchist, believing that the current monarchy was the best regime, despite all the conflicts it had caused, namely the assassination of Aleksandar Obrenović. They were aided by the British. When the king at the time fled to Britain, the partisans mocked the chetniks.
About the partisans, they were actually Serbian communists. They were pro-Stalin and loved to see the friendship between him and Josif Broz Tito (the president of Yugoslavia later on, in office for several decades until his death in 1980).
Now Tito, he was a notable personality unlike any other in Serbian history, his legacy still discussed to this day. He was a beloved president who had a cult of personality, legendary for everything he had accomplished politically. On the other hand, he had a huge "us vs them" mentality, especially after his falling out with Stalin.
They were good friends until Stalin became too bossy and wanted to spy on him, provoking his ire. Much like Stalin himself, he began locking up people who were even remotely suspicious in concentration camps, which was heavily criticised by the classic Serbian author Dragoslav Mihajlović in "Kad su cvetale tikve", as well as several filmmakers who fought to criticize him and even compare him to Hitler despite the threat to their lives. It's complicated.
The important thing, however, is that the chetniks and the partisans both focused more on defeating each other than anything else. They fought for control, utterly despising each other's ideologies, despite the fact that they weren't that different at the end of the day. Both groups had good starting points, marred by the numerous atrocities they both committed, doing a lot of good and evil. Now we can only discuss it.
Hope I told the story well.
I love how FarCry 4 threw this in your face in the end. Side with Amita and watch her turn your country into a drug powerhouse with child soldiers or Sabal and end up with a brutal theocracy. Even Pagen Minn was not perfect but a peaceful transition as the hidden option was the best by far
Wasn't Pagan Min a monster, too? Hence the whole civil war to overthrow him?
@@louisduarte8763 I think it's a "lesser of two evils" situation.
@@torinsmith9867 But didn't he turn Kyrat into a narco-state? Which Amita also wanted to do?
@@louisduarte8763 Minn was absolutely evil however all you needed to do was sit you butt in that chair and wait for him to finish torturing the guy. You get the keys to the country without the bloody civil war and hopefully remove the radicals and unite the country. Best ending in the game.
@@Junglelove20mm But then it's not a game, it's a short movie. If that's the BEST ending, that means playing the actual game is a total waste of time and money.
An interesting thing that is rarely covered in rebellion stories is how the state's Counter Insurgency or COIN works and what tactics they use
9:24- I think they just found the forbidden naughty word.
A great inspiration for the motives of a rebellion or rebellions and how they handle their logistics, other rebel factions, etc. is to look at history. Specifically, I'd recommend looking at the Chinese Civil War and the Yugoslavian partisans during WWII.
Yeah the uh, latest Chinese Civil War I guess, not sure how well this will age, is a pretty good example of it. Rebellions tend to be rather inclusive at the start but once power starts to get earned there's purges as different factions try to monopolize power. The KMT did it at first, even prioritizing their domestic battle over fighting Japan, not really a good look. Then the communists did it after they started winning.
It's not like ideology doesn't play a role in these things, but it's pretty clear everyone starts to become out only for themselves and their immediate interests.
@@shawnjavery uh...i don't know, but you literally cited two examples of ideological purity. The KMT prioritised fighting the communists because their ideological anti-communism fears the communists more than the Japanese, whose non-ideological nature is less a threat to its survival (a puppet KMT government was famously established during WW2 shows that). The communists despite their promises are ideological and have to move the anti-KMT democrats who supported it out of the way to establish their ideology in reality rather than suffer compromising with them.
@@lsarenkir not really, chaing prioritized his domestic power over dealing with a foriegn threat. There's also a bunch of other reasons why he wouldn't engage directly with Japan, such as wanting to avoid incurring the losses such a fight would have, as well as a general fear of the Japanese the warlords had beaten into them over the years.
9:20 "Huh, I've never seen this word before... I'm not sure how to pronounce it." "Oh wait, I've got it."
"Nihil."
I feel there is a lot of potential in a story taking place during a rebellion from the perspective of the empire. Especially if the current emperor has just recently taken the throne but is completely unprepared. They are doing everything in there power to try and keep the domain their ancestors built together. But a combination of lack of training from previous emperors, inexperience and several issues occurring at once makes this a living nightmare for them. Trying to become an adult is tough for many people, being responsible for an empire with millions of people only makes it tougher.
Russian revolution explained in youtube comment
Make sure to completely avoid using the similarities and differences in both side's tactics to highlight each's flaws and show how things aren't always completely black and white! If we did that, the audience might not side with every single decision the resistance makes and hope the protagonist will learn not everything is so one-sided as well! That would require us to actually develop the characters and that's too much work. We don't want that!
The People's Front of Judea considers this slander against us!
But if you're talking about the Judean People's Front, then I guess it can slide.
Watching this reminded me that it was actually your Evil Empire video that inspired me to start working on the short story that has exploded into a fantasy world that I plan to write several novels and get said novels published. So I guess this is a long overdue thanks for the spark that I had.
I have been waiting for this.
I have a lot of issues when people immediately think that rebelling is a good and justified thing.
I’ve always thought that was weird considering how much is required to stabilize an area after a rebellion. The US is a strange exception and we were very lucky for such. Otherwise it’d have another French Revolution or something like Simon Bolivar’s disaster
While a lot are sadly just outside governments funding extremist or other terrible groups, to destabilize countries
Its a good thing a lot of times. Granted a rebellion on a simial level would be better, but look a myanmar , thats not ending with prorests especually when they are killed left and right, the protesters. Sonetimes thsts nessesary.
And for whats next, thats another thing, not let a powerhungry narsicist hijack the movement.
And rebellions happening, if a government does double down on what caused that , the government isnt good and deserves it and to end. Sorry for people thou.
And des that not extremist groups take over and are worse is a risk that. Like . Stop here whatvinterventionalism and positive aid could do
@@Jim87_36 The Colonies were able to essentially make a shadow government before plunging into open rebellion. It helped that communication took a while back then.
This gave them the breathing room to assert themselves to the common man to rally around. The Americans were fortunate to find a bunch of colonial governments with a bone to pick with the British Empire as well.
France had the problem of being a revolution not in some colonies across the ocean but in the heart of France itself and right next to a bunch of countries that would be hostile to the revolutionary ideals. So reign of terror they went.
You know what would be really interesting to do?
A book detailing the aftermath of the fall of an empire and all the different factions fracturing and vying for power. Betrayal, intrigue, etc (basically real life)
I think the Thrawn trilogy does that, especially dealing with pro-Imperial sentiments left over after the death of Palpatine.
The second book in the "Mistborn" series spent a lot of time on how the rebels tried to establish a functioning government after overthrowing the Final Empire.
A song of ice and fire?
Warlord era?
Wait this is just Europe
Now that I think about it, Deep Space Nine put most stories about rebellions to shame. Like, I had a decent idea of who the Bajorn rebels were, what they were fighting for, how they were organized, what kind of tactics they used, and even the names of a couple of the cells. Which is funny cuz the show starts right after the rebellion ends. All that context is used for Kira's character development and to show how Bajor rebuilt. Compared to most rebellion stories not really giving those kinds of details much thought it's pretty impressive
This video made me realize how good the Jet episode of AtLA was and how good certain aspects of Code Geass were
Ah Code Geass, what an outstanding anime!
This is part of why I love Mistborn. They spend the first novel taking down an Evil Overlord. The second novel, which I find more interesting than the first, focuses on how they rebuild the world after the House War they started beforehand
Let me guess: is Tindwyl one of your top 5 favorite characters too?
And how Elend try to be the perfect nice and good ruler just to be kicked out
@@ardrej Welcome to Democracy!
Currently reading the second book. Breeze just explained to them how he got a second army to be right at the city's gate at the same time as Vendure's one. I'm not sure how well that idea is gonna turn out lol.
This made me realize that the Gundam series is actually pretty good at depicting rebellions.
Iindeed, i am not a fun of gundam, but if you think about it, Zeon is a rebellion and i like how they portraid good and bad things on both sides, not one side being good and the other evil, the same with legend of the galactic heroes, both have good way of portrating things
Which of the bazillion series?
Japan hardly lacks fantastic writers. Though, for some reason a lot of the crap is promoted in the west.
@@Krysnha Zeon was more of a nominal independence war, the holdouts post OYW were more 'rebels' (like the sleeves)
Watch Spartacus blood and sand. Two seasons were about rebellion, but the last one shown how huge number of enraged slaves can turn them into radicals
The Stormcloak rebellion is the best I've seen in the last 20 years.
That's more about how terribly written every other fictional rebellion is, though...
Code geass
@@RichardMiller-dq8hu
I disagree.
@@antitheist3206 I have never watched code geass but I’d like to know why?
@@Gunninman
It's a great anime, and the revolution it gives us is well done, but it's not as realistic or interesting as the Stormcloak rebellion of Skyrim.
The Black Knights v Britannia revolution is very black and white, you could find more nuance during the 2nd world war than they had here. It's not helped by the fact that all of the war crimes (and regular crimes) committed by the rebels ends up waved away thanks to their leader's mind control.
The Black Knights can do no wrong and Britannia only ever gets maniacs, dictators, and a princess who does nothing the entire time.
Good series, fun characters, just a really poorly written rebellion.
@@antitheist3206 Also can someone explain why Japan became a democracy? Especially in an alternate world where that idea was supposed to be scrapped for what appears to be absolute monarchies? I mean why wasn't Japan a constitutional monarchy with the Emperor as the head of state? As you can see I have issues with the "world building" of Code Geass.
The word terrorist has been thrown around so much over the lasf few decades it now just means "any one using violence towards ideological ends". So don't worry if your rebels count as terrorists, but worry if they're ok with specifically targetting civilians for their ends or at least if they do not care how many civilian casualties are collaterol damage.
The word terrorist was originally coined by anarchists who asssasinated Royals, Nobles, and Capitalists known for their brutality and exploitation. In response there was a coordinated effort to make terrorist and anarchist synonymous with bomb throwing lunatics rather than the insane idea that people should be let to govern themselves as they see fit or that those who inflict cruelty on others should be made to live in fear that those proles may not tolerate their oppression forever
When I think of terrorist I think of terror. As in spreading terror and fear as their main point. Makes it easier to separate resistance from terrorism. You’re not a terrorist for fighting back against a system that has wronged you. You’re a terrorist when you rely on fear or sinister tactics to get what you want.
@@TheHawkeye0725 what part of "coordinated and deliberate propaganda campaign to redefine the word" did you not understand?
And there isn't anything inherently wrong about terror, the question is who is it directed at, the common people or the ones oppressing them?
And sometimes "terrorist" doesn't even have to be used to describe anybody actually being violent at all, it could just be a bunch of unarmed people milling around inside a government building taking selfies before quietly leaving and causing next to no damage whatsoever.
@@DolFan316 And sometimes "terrorist" can be a coalition of political parties holding a primary election.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, if you made an ironic book that utilizes all of the bad advice in the series as a “What not to do”, I’d buy the shit out of it.
My rebels are both the “true evil” to the “morally grey evil” and the catalyst to the story beginning my protagonist’s journey. Competent, generally horrifying, and the force standing between life and death for the protagonist.
Man I like writing bad guys
When I needed him most, he returned! I am starting a fresh D&D campaign this Friday that will feature a rebellion at the center of the plot. Now I know I need to go back to the drawing board on some things lol. Thank you!
Here's some terrible DMing advice:
Make sure that players' actions do not influence the rebellion in any way. Make sure the rebellion is set-dressing, not an actual faction with its motives and ideas. Don't create and flesh out NPCs in the rebellion, who the players can understand and form opinions around. Either have them generic blander than bread good guys or murderous zealots who kick puppies.
Also, if you do have them be murderous zealots, don't give your players the chance to form their own rebellion, or change the rebellion for the better. Remember, player actions have no consequence.
Highly recommend reading "Guerilla Warfare" by Che Guevara, fairly short but very clear on the aims and strategies that rebellions should use
Class Analysis to find ways the people are neglected, and provide for them so as to gain their support
Discipline and harsh punishment of those who resort to banditry since the rebels live and die by the support of the masses
And finally the importance of logistics and morale
We once started Rebellion in DND
We replaced old system with even worse
How did it went pal?
“I will commit suicide to escape poverty, after receiving valida- Er, I mean I WILL SACRIFICE MY LIFE TO END TYRANNY AND OPPRESSION.” -Rebel
Lmao 🤣
This is one of the reasons I like the transformers franchise so much. The evil faction (decepticons, predacons, whatever) are always the rebels, whether they are attempting to overthrow the heroic faction’s government, or they already overthrew their planet’s previous oppressive government, and the revolutionaries split into factions based on different ideology of how best to make a new government (autobots and decepticons). That second idea was inspired the russian revolution, which goes to make it feel all the more believable.