Remember fellas, the biggest choice is not WML vs handheld, but to train or not to train with whatever ya got. Both gear choices have their respective drawbacks. The issue with a handheld (besides losing a hand on the gun) is that most of us use it for mundane tasks, and the batteries may not be in great shape when we need it in a critical situation. My WML will have 98%+ of its original charge. Personally, I carry both, but would not rely on a handheld for self-defense.
I carry a modlite for self defense only and also a little streamlite penlight single aaa for admin stuff. It really isnt too much to carry. Just how i do it.
@@Whiskey.Tango.ActualI took a white light pistol course with the streamlight pen light and it actually was super useful. I also used a streamlight polytac and surprisingly prefer the pen light
@@CiviTac that literally what Ernest Langdon said he carries during one of his classes I attended. Pretty wild. He proved you don't need a super high lumen/candela light.
I have both a handheld light and a WML because I see the value in having both depending on the situation. For me, it's just about having different tools for different reasons. Ultimately, it always come down to training in the proper use of whatever you're carrying.
Well we will see if you ever need to use it if your brain can process getting out both a flash light and a gun at the same time…good luck would be my thought, I carry both but if I’m using the flash light and someone starts firing I’m going to my wml and having two hands on the gun especially for accuracy train all you want you will never be able to return fire as fast or accurate with one hand opposed to two hands
@@trentrockwell6598tbh a WML on a CCW has its pros and cons but tbh most altercations happen between 1-7 meters and with how fast things happen and adrenaline you wouldn’t even bother turning it on
I've been in this situation. Your light can be used as an excuse against you that you had a gun pointed at them. It also gives away your position. It's main advantage is to blind someone which means you need a large light. WML is more beneficial for LEOs. I'd rather have nods and IR light like the military. But have a WML just in case. The key is being adaptable.
I used to carry a light on my full size CCW. I always carry a handheld in my pocket. I took a few low light classes and realized that wml is a “nice to have” for me. I like the weight reduction on the belt line.
Ben: "Don't just dive into the comments section before you listen to the video and hear out my rationale." I'm currently 3:20 into the video and you haven't even started yet dude lol Edit: for those curious, the reason to not use a WML starts at around 8:20
@@wisemencompany He’s not wrong. You’ve been in this game long enough to know this. We all know you don’t give a shit what everyone else thinks, so just get to your point and your reasoning for why vs trying cover all the preemptive butthurt you think a topic like this will cause. I give you mad props for posting it. It does take balls…everyone will do what they feel is right for them anyway 🤷♂️
I agree with what you're saying, however couldn't this issue be fixed by getting a weapon mounted light that is less bulky and also simultaneously have a handheld light so you don't have to take out your weapon, but if you need to take your weapon out you can now double grip your weapon and have your light out as well. The hand held would probably have to be dropped to double grip it but there might be some options there. Thoughts? Also there are some handheld flashlights that would promote being able to use a double grip more effectively or even using a ring on your handheld flashlight.
My problem with WML is the saying that "well but you need to positive id to know if hes actually a threat". Ya but youre already pulling out your handgun...you shouldve seen he was a threat or had a weapon before even reaching for the gun. People seem to skip a step.
That’s ignorant! Here’s why my alarm went off in the middle of the night I jumped to my feet grabbed my gun and started clearing my house I was upstairs and I had kids in rooms downstairs my gun was out and was gonna stay out till I was satisfied we were good. Turning on lights is a bad idea as it would give my position away and possibly give an intruder the drop. But to act like there aren’t 100 scenarios where you would have your gun out before you know who’s a threat and who’s not is beyond silly!😂
@@peterdarlington4117 This comment exemplifies why the conversation over pistol WMLs gets so heated. You're talking about a home defense scenario and in that case you're 100% correct and a WML is an absolute necessity. This video though is about the topic of WMLs *specifically for CCW* and the context is very different. As a private citizen, you are not going to use a WML out and about in the same way you would in a home defense situation. It's also why I do like to carry with a WML if I'm traveling out of town to stay at a friend's house or a hotel. I want the same capability of a home defense gun with me anywhere I'm sleeping, and I'd rather not travel with a gun on my person and another gun not on my person. So in that case, I CCW with a WML and it doubles well as a "hotel defense gun" when I get where I'm going. But for non-LEOs (again different context), a WML doesn't have the same utility outside the home. Outside your home, if you're drawing a gun, you'd better have already identified a threat, or you're probably committing aggravated assault.
@@Nitroaereus I clearly said “and other scenarios” so no I’m not only talking about a home defense scenario there’s multiple scenarios where you would need a light on your gun. I have had to use the light on my pistol multiple times in and away from my house, from aggressive dogs running up on me when out at night and so on. It’s not a heated conversation it’s a bunch of ignorant know it all’s trying to tell everyone else they don’t need a light on their gun😂 I could care less if you keep a light on your gun or not. I merely pointed out one instance of many where a light was not only useful but very necessary. Just because I disagree doesn’t mean I’m heated.😂 It’s usually the people telling others what they need or don’t need who get heated. The entire gun space online is full of “experts” who think they know all things firearms and everyone else should listen to the greatness that flows from their lips but the thing is I have been carrying a gun for 30 years and while I’m not claiming to be an expert I have figured out what works and what I needed. But lately all I keep hearing is the only reason we have lights and optics on our carry guns is so we can be “cool kids” personally I’d like to just watch gun and gear reviews but again these people feel like they need to educate me and others like me on why what we have been doing for so long is wrong and stupid. It’s simple just say I have not found a need to have a light on my pistol and for me it’s not practical and leave it at that but when you follow up by saying so the rest of you should do the same thing you are now a know it all jackass. Hope that clarifies my position in the “ heated conversation “😂 like the late great Pop Tart warrior said this is based on my training, my experiences and my preferences. Your training your experiences your preferences may differ.
@@peterdarlington4117 I wasn't referring to your comment specifically being heated, but that the conversation of "Concealed Carry with a WML" becomes heated, because--as in the case of the specific example you gave in your comment--so many people immediately divert the conversation away from Concealed Carry to a completely different context for a WML, like Home Defense. It's as if someone posts a RUclips video discussing the type of car to drive for better MPG while commuting, and people come on commenting that they'd pick a Ford Raptor or a Tacoma TRD because they're so good at off-roading. Seano4822's point still stands that if you are drawing a concealed handgun while out in public before you've identified and confirmed a threat, you are doing something very wrong. Again a home defense scenario, or being out in your yard or in the back 40 and having a strange dog run up to you is a totally different situation, and a WML would be really useful there. And like the video said, if you want to carry with a WML, go for it. Heck, I've done it. There's no huge downside to it, as long as it doesn't dissuade you from carrying and you are already carrying other tools you're more likely to need, particularly a handheld light. I just think it's wrong to call Seano4822 ignorant for making a really good point, and then bring up something totally irrelevant to the actual discussion, which is CCW.
I carry both mainly because It’s my everything pistol for now. Maybe when I can get another pistol I will probably carry without the light. Thanks for the advice!
I’ve ran both ways but I lean more towards no WML for carry. And honestly I don’t ever leave home without a handheld light in my pocket. WML also naturally creates a bigger gap between kydex & trigger guard as well. I’ve never seen or heard of a civilian DGU where a WML was needed/used. To each their own for sure but I’m with you on this one. Thanks for the content brother 🤙🏼
Thanks for the input and great point about real life use. Yes, there are almost no recorded incidents (state side) where a civi employed the use of his/her WML. But that also isn’t one of my reasons for not using one.
I do not use WML's on a pistol. I had a WML on a duty pistol for 25 years only because it was required and NEVER used it or needed it. In all the low light/night pistol shootings by suspects, victims, and officers I observed or was a part of, no one used a wml even if they had one. Not once in 25 years. I only carry a WML on long guns. Do what works for you.
Agreed, I fall into your logic 100% and do the same. No WML on CC but my nightstand pistol and rifle are both fitted with WML. I rarely go out at night with my family and always have a separate light on me too.
These comments are going to be good. I carry both ways depending on the situation. I did a little low-light force-on-force and the guys that were heavy on the WML were chalk magnets.
try calling the police or use ur phone with ur flash light in ur hand. people skip that crucial part, ur not going ot get into a long battled fire fight all day. realistically ur going to need to use ur weapon and also use ur other hand to use ur phone to be calling for help.
You should NEVER carry a WML without a handheld. Nor should you use the WML as a handheld. If the WML is used correctly it can only be an asset. There aren’t any real cons other than bulk if that’s even a concern for you. Smaller lights like the TLR-7 IMO are the perfect sized WML for concealed carry.
true, i dont agree with some of the stuff he says in this video about wml because realistically, ur not gonna be getting in a long fire fight while always holding a hand held flash light, ur going to need that other hand free to use ur phone to call for help. oh but u didnt bring ur wml because of ur hand held flash light, what r u gonna do? drop it to make a phone call? good luck with that, i can just turn on my wml and use my other hand to call for help.
Anyone who has taken enough classes knows… and as both Steve Fisher & Mike Glover always say, “two hands on the gun is always better than one hand on the gun.” If you think you can shoot as fast with as much accuracy as two hands on the gun vs one handed with a handheld light in your other hand… guess again and I urge you to try a lowlight competition course with handheld vs WML. Let alone, you’re banking on being able to draw BOTH your gun AND your handheld in the moment of need. I’ve done 5 lowlight classes and never have I ever said “man I wish I didn’t have my wml for x reason”. No, IMO, ESPECIALLY for civilians, two hands on the gun is infinitely better and more reliable, and one handed manipulation of a light is also IMO infinitely better than two handed draw of light & gun. 2x the mental processes for drawing vs 1. PID is the most important reason for a light… other than that looking at it from an objective pt of view, I just don’t see how drawing two items is better than 1 #OODAloop. I always carry BOTH a WML and handheld Modlite OKW and PL350+ PLHV2. But IMO, CCW with a WML, even a small flush fit TLR7, is still better. Don’t think you’re a moron… just think I’d rather take my chances drawing one item vs two. I may not have that second hand capable to hold said light…
I've taken two low light courses and they both taught me how unnecessary a weapon mounted light really is to the average civilian. A handheld light will probably be used a thousand times before a weapon mounted light will be.
Agreed. I've never thought to myself, "I wish I didn't have a light" in classes or otherwise. All pros and no cons to having a quality light on your gun. Like the video and others have said I believe you need a quality handheld as well. Have a blessed day everyone and train on.
You just earned yourself a new subscriber, buddy. I like the take on WMLs! Im still figuring it all out. I Have a pistol with a WML it is more of a home defense set-up, but my everyday carry does Not have one. And I don't think it ever will.. thanks for the good content. And just kidding, I've been subscribed for a while . I am looking forward to new content.
and? what happens if u go out at night? and u dont have wml on ur light, and realistically u need to use ur other hand to use the phone to call for help? drop ur hand held? lots of people forget about that common sense detail. they have never been in a real life situation so they wouldnt know, but realistically, ur not gonna be getting into a long fire fight like call of duty and using ur hand held, ur going ot need that other hand free to call for help on ur phone. so now u have another option to turn on ur wml. what's the con for having extra lights? esepecially on ur weapon except for a lil more weight?
Appreciate the context & reasoning why you don't rock a wml, my edc (19x) just has a dot (Horosun) & no light currently (carry one handheld). I've been considering adding a wml for a while now but for edc, you & Phil made quality points & I'm going to stick w/ no wml on my edc pistol & continue to train w/ a handheld light 🤙
I’m a night shift patrol officer in a city of >120k. I’m an FTO and police firearms instructor as well. I’ve come to the same conclusion. I work in darkness a lot, and even though I have a WML on my duty pistol, I use a handheld light far more frequently, even in many cases when my handgun is out of the holster. WMLs are limited in practicality to situations where it would be justifiable to point a firearm at someone. That pretty much limits their practicality to searches. I stress to my trainees and partners the need to be proficient shooting with a handheld as well as transitioning quickly from a handheld to the handgun/wml combo when time permits. I’m not against carrying a WML on an EDC gun, but some folks speak as if it’s a requirement when they probably haven’t trained with them enough to understand their parameters of usefulness.
Spot on, I love carrying a handheld light. A potential threat needs to be identified but in most cases, won't need a gun pointed at it....because it isnt actually a threat
Noone has mentioned how a wml that extends past the muzzle can act as a stand off device to prevent the weapon from going out of battery in a close encounter.
100% agree. I came to this right after the launch of the X300 in a Surefire class many years ago. While i do have WMLs on some setups, they are for different roles, not normal CC. Gear fits the mission. And honestly we all need more training than anything.
I really like a modified Harries technique for handheld light use while shooting. Think Harries but with a cigar-hold on the light instead of a full grip. This makes the light point forward so you don't have to blade off and change your whole stance. Works great with SF "combatlight" models which are designed to be gripped between your fingers, but works fine with normal handhelds too.
At the academy this was basically rule number one why we didn't have WML (now this was 10 years ago) but you're way more likely to use your flashlight than waving your gun around to see what you're doing. Nothing like a bump in the night with a trigger happy first timer and blasting a non threat because your flashlight was attached to your gun.
As a civilian, I have never owned or wanted to put a WML on any of my edc pistols. If I was a LEO or active Military police then I see a reason to have one. Again, this is my personal opinion for me and me only.
make sure ud ont go out at night then. because uve made a grave mistake, especially when u need to use ur other hand thats holding a flash that to use the phone to call for help.
Agreed. A WML is meant for searching/clearing and perhaps useful for home defense when the power is out. Personal defense situations don't require a light. These events occur at very close range. You'll see your adversary, even in low light, and yes, even in darkened theaters. The wannabe commandos don't want to hear this.
When I was at the state patrol academy we never used pistol mounted lights. We carried a separate hand held light. For me a good option we be to carry an Olight Baldr pro R in your pocket and if for some reason you need to mount it to your pistol it has a quick attachment
I've only seen one, and the dude activated it in great time. I recall he was being carjacked as he was returning to his vehicle. I can't necessarily say he really needed it as the fight happened within kissing distance and while it was night time, it was lit well enough that a CCTV caught the whole thing. I think it was in Brazil but I don't remember off the top of my head.
@@wisemencompanyIf that’s a “reason” for not having a WML, than you should also not carry a gun at all. Because the odds of needing a gun is statistically extremely low.
I agree that training is paramount. Your equipment is a liability without it. I personally carry and train with both. I have the WML for two main reasons. My pistol is also my bedside weapon and I’m not taking off a light and changing holster every time I head out the door. Second is because a WML adds capability. If the capability isn’t worth the cost/weight/bulk that is your choice and I respect that.
I agree with you perfectly. Never thought about it this deep until this video. But i already ordered a holster with light option. Like you say for civilian carry i can actually see your point and agree with you. In the home or when traveling i belive in having a WML Although i will say i am probably still going to get a WML for every pistol i have. but i will get two holsters for each pistol i have, one with a light and one without light. Then just determine what i am doing for the day to determine the setup i use.
Let me be quick to slam these keys on my keyboard............you ready......here we go............excellent video sir. Thank you for this honest perspective. Keeping it real.
This past year I went away from WML on my CC. I got caught up in the internet warriors/influencers saying “you need a WML”. In my older years I’m going for comfort. I’m not out at the time a WML would be considered by some, anyways. I do carry a pocket flashlight, too. I have many stream lights, they are affordable, great alternatives to the much higher priced ones. If I lose one I won’t cry too much if I have to order another.
I don’t use a WML when I carry for two reasons. First, I carry a Walther PDP Full Size 5 inch barrel pistol on me everyday. I personally like to carry the biggest gun I possibly can while keeping it concealed with little to no printing. So I have to keep my holster as minimal as I can. An appendix holster for that gun with a spot for a WML would be just a bit bulkier than I want. Second, I’m old! By the time the sun goes down, my old a$$ is already in the house for the night. 😂 That said, I do put a light on my gun at night for home protection.
For me, tlr 1 and like a sure fire x300 make a 19x/shadow mr920L very uncomfortable for carry and if it’s uncomfortable I don’t like to carry it as much. A tlr7a would work and I might get one in the future but for now I don’t wanna change holsters and a flashlight works for what I need rn. I’m with ya
Personally, WML is for owb and home defense. Pocket light and concealed pistol in public/ ccw. How is it there at JTAC? I am assuming the one outside Tampa? It is literally 15 minutes away from me.
I actually came to the exact same conclusion. I have carried 6 years and I started looking at weapon mounted lights and even tried carrying it. The issue I had was....if the light is on the handgun, then it's ONLY usable when you draw. Once you draw, especially in California you BETTER have a good reason. So I chose a surefire flashlight for carry because I can draw a flashlight anytime and not be charged with a crime, it offers me alot of utility, and the flashlight by itself IS its own weapon. So the versatility I get from a separate flashlight exceeds anything I would get from a weapon mounted light. Now if I was using a handgun offensively for work.....then I would definitely have one on my handgun. But a CCW weapon is defensive and shouldn't be coming out for any other reason than to be used Just my 2 cents
WML allows you to drop your handheld as you draw and still have a light on the guy and shoot two handed. Also it allows you to see during and after the shooting if the threat still exsists or not, again while having both hands on the gun. Both hands on the gun means you will be more accurate, shoot faster while maintaining acceptable accuracy, and have better retention from a grab attempt. Also it is MUCH more likely you will be in a situation where you can see with your unaided eye that a person is a threat while the light is still low enough that blasting them in the face with your WML as you come on target and fire will give you an advantage than it is that you will be in such a dark area that you can't ID the threat without a flashlight. In that situation, the most likely one for a civilian to encounter, without a WML you will simply lose that advantage as drawing a light and your gun at the same time is unrealistic. And with lights like the TLR-7'X that are relatively affordable and add so little weight and bulk to a gun the size of a Glock 19 and bigger, there is no reason not to have that advantage if that's the size of gun you carry.
Being in a situation while out and about that is pitch black and being aware of a threat with enough time to do any of that is unrealistic. There is usually a threat or there isn’t, and you only find out after the threat starts it’s attack. There are very few places that lack any light. At home is the only scenario I can think of that anyone would be stalking around with a light investigating a possible threat. Even then there is no reason to leave adefensive position of strength to go fumble around in the dark in an offensive move. If you have that kind of time… getting your family to a secure position then post up behind cover and defend from a position of advantage is a much better plan than walking out into the open unknown outside of hard cover.
I carry both. Surefire Stiletto Pro handheld and TLR7A on the pistol. The big reason is the holster indexes on the light keeping the gun from getting excessive wear. Gives me the best of both worlds. Having a TLR7A on your pistol doesn’t add much bulk and gives you a redundancy in case your handheld battery dies, or you need your hand free, or your handheld gets knocked out of your hand in a fight.
Great video. I think a lot of the drama over the topic comes from a lack of precision on use-case when discussing WMLs. For home-defense and LEO/overt applications, they are an absolute must. However, CCW has a lot more dimensional constraints and, as pointed out very well in the video, their use and necessity is much more limited. One case where I do like to have a flashlight on my CCW is for out-of-town/state travel. In those cases, I like my CCW to double up as my "hotel-defense" gun. I generally want to avoid traveling with a gun not secured on my person or where I'm sleeping, and I want WML capability at my "home-away-from-home" as much as I do at home. Of course, just bringing a WML and attaching it before going to bed is an option, but I'd prefer to minimize the administrative gun handling, especially off my property or the range.
I dont disagree with either of you in the video, however I prefer to have an x300. It sounds weird but it makes carrying easier(if you want to know ill explain, just ask) and I've never been bummed to have a light on my gun while training, and lastly I really only use my one glock 19 for everything so keeping it the same is nice mentally. Agree with you about more training, so ill go get some extra dry fire reps tonight. Thanks for the quality content and have a blessed day.
@@jessegaluk I thought a flush light would be better too, but I found the weight of my g19 and a spare 17 round mag in appendix carry would lean outward because it's top heavy. I'm short it actually pushed into me harder and would bruise me, with the x300 it helps add length and it balances nicer after a full day.
I'm just a dude, I carried a WML plus a hand light. I switched a few years back, based on studies and events. I carry my glock, strong side/IWB and hand light. No red dot.
I carried a hand held flashlight long before I attached a weapon mounted light to my pistol, I still carry a flashlight because I don't always have the pistol on me. takeaway from this video: carry both if you choose to. "one is none, two is one".
11:35 how about thi, physical input onto your gun will cause you to snap a shot in the wrong direction from where versions tempting to hit, that’s why I stoped using a wml 4 years ago. I realize how much accountability is that play and hitting steal this close is not productive for this.
Carry whatever you want. I usually carry a WML but i ALWAYS have my EDC handheld light. The WML is a “nice to have” while the handheld is a “must have” for me. Even if I’m traveling and can’t carry a gun, I’m never without my handheld EDC light. If you can only carry one, definitely go handheld. And definitely train with both.
I have a Surefire X300 on my CCW because of the PHLster Floodlight. It's the best concealment holster I've ever used and you can't use it without the light. If I ever get convinced that WMLs are a bad thing, I'll just take the batteries out of the X300 and put it back on my pistol so that I can keep using that holster.
I got a shine job on my eyeballs like Riddick so now I can see in the dark but I’m pretty much completely blind during the day. I use a weapon mounted light but I put sunglasses over it.
I like having both hands on the gun and be able to have a light at the same time so I’m going to run a wml. In addition to that I like to have an edc light for the moments where you want a lot of light but don’t want to draw a gun, but if I’m not wearing clothes where having all of that is comfortable I’m fine with omitting the edc light. A phone light covers 98% of what I’d use a flashlight for. Edc light is another 1.9% and wml is .1% but a very important .1%. No hate on edc light only or wml only, but that’s what I like. I will hate a bit on no light though, I think you should have something.
I have been carrying a handheld light longer than I have been carrying a pistol. Many more uses for a flashlight in your pocket than one mounted on a gun. Done a bunch of low light training and there are definitely ways to use a handheld light effectively with a firearm
Up where I’m at I carry a surefire tactician and G19.5 with a TLR1 during the winter because it’s dark for 16-17 hours a day. In the summer when it’s daylight for 16-17 hours I’ll carry my gen 2 G19 with the tactician.
I never feel that I’m lacking if I’m not carrying a WML but what’s funny to me is the extra length it provides helps me conceal a g17 a bit better. I agree with your conclusions and think that it’s all preference. Your situational awareness and training matter more than anything.
Interesting conversation, loved that you were able to lay out your thoughts/reasons clearly and concisely. The whole handheld or WML arguement is silly to me, because as you said there's no way a WML can replace a handheld for utility tasks. For me the question has always been if I want to a WML to go along with my handheld, or just carry a handheld and no WML. To me, a TLR7 adds so little bulk to a carry sized gun (like a Glock 19 or 43x) that I have no reason to not carry one. Plus, if I have to use my CCW in a low light situation, I'd like to be able to use my normal 2 handed grip to tilt the odds in my favor as much as possible. But if you can only carry one, the obvious answer is to carry a quality handheld. I never leave my house without my Surefire Stiletto Pro and wind up using it for something just about every day.
The first department I worked for we didn't have weapon lights so my preferred shooting method was holding my handheld next to my head like you do. A lieutenant from the regional swat team told me that someone was going to aim for the light and shoot me in the head. Since he was swat he had lights on his pistol and rifle so I told him he needed to take those lights off. He had some reasoning why that was okay but I was done with him at that point and didn't listen
No wml on edc for me. But my home defense gun has one. I may inadvertently point a loaded weapon at someone that I don't mean to. I used to be a bail bondsmen and had to search dark places. I preferred a hand held.
Using a wml as an edc flashlight sounds like a personal problem. No one will ever convince me I shouldn't have both options of edc light and wml. Two is one, one is none. Can think of so many different scenarios you may not be able to use both hands or lose your light etc
I disagree it offers faster follow up shots and better accuracy as you have the ability to use your support hand, Notice he is shooting close range with one hand get that out to 25-50+ yards good luck with that you may have to fire at a target past 50+yards to defend yourself especially in a parking lot or something
I've been carrying every day for well over a decade and I don't carry with a WML either. That being said never leave home without a very bright flashlight in my pocket, which I use on a daily basis. I don't like the added weight and extra bulk that comes with a WML. I don't plan on room clearing or looking for threats with my CCW. It's a get-home tool, not a seek-and-destroy.
I've considered this application, but there are just too many scenarios where you will need your support hand free or it will be busy with something else. I carry a WML and a free flashlight. train accordingly
Carrying both would be ideal but if you only have to carry one then handheld seems to be the only way. Carrying a WML with no handheld just doesn’t make sense to me. How are you going to PID before drawing your WML lol
"Bad info. Everyone knows, two hands on a gun is better at delivering follow-up shots and speed. And nowadays, the bad guys don't work alone. I highly doubt you can tell the other guy to wait his turn. So, carrying two lights is the better option: a WML and a pocket light. And train with both. It's easy to shoot one-handed at something that's not shooting back."
Finally someone talks about the elephant in the room. I have asked this question for the last 15 years, watching folks trying to carry full-size tactical hand gun setups in low vis carry or concealed carry options. My first question was always what hours of the day do you operate in the most, the overwhelming response was daylight hours say 7am to 7pm. Then I would ask why do you carry a weapon mounted light during the day. The answer was Monkey see Monkey Do becuase all the internet cowboys do. 😂😂😂😂😂
Remember fellas, the biggest choice is not WML vs handheld, but to train or not to train with whatever ya got. Both gear choices have their respective drawbacks. The issue with a handheld (besides losing a hand on the gun) is that most of us use it for mundane tasks, and the batteries may not be in great shape when we need it in a critical situation. My WML will have 98%+ of its original charge. Personally, I carry both, but would not rely on a handheld for self-defense.
Yes. Train and then train some more. This is the correct approach.
I carry a modlite for self defense only and also a little streamlite penlight single aaa for admin stuff. It really isnt too much to carry. Just how i do it.
@@Whiskey.Tango.ActualI took a white light pistol course with the streamlight pen light and it actually was super useful. I also used a streamlight polytac and surprisingly prefer the pen light
@@CiviTac that literally what Ernest Langdon said he carries during one of his classes I attended. Pretty wild. He proved you don't need a super high lumen/candela light.
Well, losing a hand on a gun is a pretty big issue
I have both a handheld light and a WML because I see the value in having both depending on the situation. For me, it's just about having different tools for different reasons. Ultimately, it always come down to training in the proper use of whatever you're carrying.
As a CC advocate who decidedly doesn’t have a WML, I’ve already started making popcorn
Bahahaha
Well we will see if you ever need to use it if your brain can process getting out both a flash light and a gun at the same time…good luck would be my thought, I carry both but if I’m using the flash light and someone starts firing I’m going to my wml and having two hands on the gun especially for accuracy train all you want you will never be able to return fire as fast or accurate with one hand opposed to two hands
@@trentrockwell6598 God bless you sir for the unsolicited enlightenment you’ve bestowed upon us.
@@jlew6890 anytime a$$hole 👌🏻
@@trentrockwell6598tbh a WML on a CCW has its pros and cons but tbh most altercations happen between 1-7 meters and with how fast things happen and adrenaline you wouldn’t even bother turning it on
Handheld light is a necessity, a WML is a luxury.
Wml is a waste unless it’s a work gun.
This
I've been in this situation. Your light can be used as an excuse against you that you had a gun pointed at them. It also gives away your position. It's main advantage is to blind someone which means you need a large light. WML is more beneficial for LEOs. I'd rather have nods and IR light like the military. But have a WML just in case. The key is being adaptable.
Haven’t even watched it yet and I’m already ready to scream and hug my TLR-1 to bed tonight
By all means hug away.
I used to carry a light on my full size CCW. I always carry a handheld in my pocket. I took a few low light classes and realized that wml is a “nice to have” for me. I like the weight reduction on the belt line.
Ben: "Don't just dive into the comments section before you listen to the video and hear out my rationale."
I'm currently 3:20 into the video and you haven't even started yet dude lol
Edit: for those curious, the reason to not use a WML starts at around 8:20
😂😂😂
@@wisemencompany He’s not wrong. You’ve been in this game long enough to know this. We all know you don’t give a shit what everyone else thinks, so just get to your point and your reasoning for why vs trying cover all the preemptive butthurt you think a topic like this will cause. I give you mad props for posting it. It does take balls…everyone will do what they feel is right for them anyway 🤷♂️
I think on a home defense weapon a WML is a must but for edc a pocket torch is more than adequate
I agree with what you're saying, however couldn't this issue be fixed by getting a weapon mounted light that is less bulky and also simultaneously have a handheld light so you don't have to take out your weapon, but if you need to take your weapon out you can now double grip your weapon and have your light out as well. The hand held would probably have to be dropped to double grip it but there might be some options there. Thoughts? Also there are some handheld flashlights that would promote being able to use a double grip more effectively or even using a ring on your handheld flashlight.
My problem with WML is the saying that "well but you need to positive id to know if hes actually a threat". Ya but youre already pulling out your handgun...you shouldve seen he was a threat or had a weapon before even reaching for the gun. People seem to skip a step.
That’s ignorant! Here’s why my alarm went off in the middle of the night I jumped to my feet grabbed my gun and started clearing my house I was upstairs and I had kids in rooms downstairs my gun was out and was gonna stay out till I was satisfied we were good. Turning on lights is a bad idea as it would give my position away and possibly give an intruder the drop. But to act like there aren’t 100 scenarios where you would have your gun out before you know who’s a threat and who’s not is beyond silly!😂
@@peterdarlington4117 This comment exemplifies why the conversation over pistol WMLs gets so heated. You're talking about a home defense scenario and in that case you're 100% correct and a WML is an absolute necessity.
This video though is about the topic of WMLs *specifically for CCW* and the context is very different. As a private citizen, you are not going to use a WML out and about in the same way you would in a home defense situation.
It's also why I do like to carry with a WML if I'm traveling out of town to stay at a friend's house or a hotel. I want the same capability of a home defense gun with me anywhere I'm sleeping, and I'd rather not travel with a gun on my person and another gun not on my person. So in that case, I CCW with a WML and it doubles well as a "hotel defense gun" when I get where I'm going.
But for non-LEOs (again different context), a WML doesn't have the same utility outside the home. Outside your home, if you're drawing a gun, you'd better have already identified a threat, or you're probably committing aggravated assault.
@@Nitroaereus I clearly said “and other scenarios” so no I’m not only talking about a home defense scenario there’s multiple scenarios where you would need a light on your gun. I have had to use the light on my pistol multiple times in and away from my house, from aggressive dogs running up on me when out at night and so on. It’s not a heated conversation it’s a bunch of ignorant know it all’s trying to tell everyone else they don’t need a light on their gun😂 I could care less if you keep a light on your gun or not. I merely pointed out one instance of many where a light was not only useful but very necessary. Just because I disagree doesn’t mean I’m heated.😂 It’s usually the people telling others what they need or don’t need who get heated. The entire gun space online is full of “experts” who think they know all things firearms and everyone else should listen to the greatness that flows from their lips but the thing is I have been carrying a gun for 30 years and while I’m not claiming to be an expert I have figured out what works and what I needed. But lately all I keep hearing is the only reason we have lights and optics on our carry guns is so we can be “cool kids” personally I’d like to just watch gun and gear reviews but again these people feel like they need to educate me and others like me on why what we have been doing for so long is wrong and stupid. It’s simple just say I have not found a need to have a light on my pistol and for me it’s not practical and leave it at that but when you follow up by saying so the rest of you should do the same thing you are now a know it all jackass. Hope that clarifies my position in the “ heated conversation “😂 like the late great Pop Tart warrior said this is based on my training, my experiences and my preferences. Your training your experiences your preferences may differ.
@@peterdarlington4117 I wasn't referring to your comment specifically being heated, but that the conversation of "Concealed Carry with a WML" becomes heated, because--as in the case of the specific example you gave in your comment--so many people immediately divert the conversation away from Concealed Carry to a completely different context for a WML, like Home Defense.
It's as if someone posts a RUclips video discussing the type of car to drive for better MPG while commuting, and people come on commenting that they'd pick a Ford Raptor or a Tacoma TRD because they're so good at off-roading.
Seano4822's point still stands that if you are drawing a concealed handgun while out in public before you've identified and confirmed a threat, you are doing something very wrong.
Again a home defense scenario, or being out in your yard or in the back 40 and having a strange dog run up to you is a totally different situation, and a WML would be really useful there.
And like the video said, if you want to carry with a WML, go for it. Heck, I've done it. There's no huge downside to it, as long as it doesn't dissuade you from carrying and you are already carrying other tools you're more likely to need, particularly a handheld light.
I just think it's wrong to call Seano4822 ignorant for making a really good point, and then bring up something totally irrelevant to the actual discussion, which is CCW.
I carry both mainly because It’s my everything pistol for now. Maybe when I can get another pistol I will probably carry without the light. Thanks for the advice!
I’ve ran both ways but I lean more towards no WML for carry. And honestly I don’t ever leave home without a handheld light in my pocket. WML also naturally creates a bigger gap between kydex & trigger guard as well. I’ve never seen or heard of a civilian DGU where a WML was needed/used. To each their own for sure but I’m with you on this one. Thanks for the content brother 🤙🏼
Thanks for the input and great point about real life use.
Yes, there are almost no recorded incidents (state side) where a civi employed the use of his/her WML. But that also isn’t one of my reasons for not using one.
So a $700 pistol doesn't have to cost $979 out the box?
At lest 1k, you forgot the red dot.
@@kendric98 $1500 you forgot extra magazines, a trigger job, new grips, a compensator and a skull and cross bones back plate.
I do not use WML's on a pistol. I had a WML on a duty pistol for 25 years only because it was required and NEVER used it or needed it. In all the low light/night pistol shootings by suspects, victims, and officers I observed or was a part of, no one used a wml even if they had one. Not once in 25 years. I only carry a WML on long guns. Do what works for you.
Agreed, I fall into your logic 100% and do the same. No WML on CC but my nightstand pistol and rifle are both fitted with WML. I rarely go out at night with my family and always have a separate light on me too.
I was scoffing when i clicked on the video, but you have certainly delivered on your word and made me think more about the topic. Thank you!
Appreciate you listening.
Solid points. This video drops right as my TLR7 dies during lowlight shooting.
These comments are going to be good. I carry both ways depending on the situation. I did a little low-light force-on-force and the guys that were heavy on the WML were chalk magnets.
try calling the police or use ur phone with ur flash light in ur hand.
people skip that crucial part, ur not going ot get into a long battled fire fight all day. realistically ur going to need to use ur weapon and also use ur other hand to use ur phone to be calling for help.
You should NEVER carry a WML without a handheld. Nor should you use the WML as a handheld. If the WML is used correctly it can only be an asset. There aren’t any real cons other than bulk if that’s even a concern for you. Smaller lights like the TLR-7 IMO are the perfect sized WML for concealed carry.
true, i dont agree with some of the stuff he says in this video about wml because realistically, ur not gonna be getting in a long fire fight while always holding a hand held flash light, ur going to need that other hand free to use ur phone to call for help. oh but u didnt bring ur wml because of ur hand held flash light, what r u gonna do? drop it to make a phone call? good luck with that, i can just turn on my wml and use my other hand to call for help.
Anyone who has taken enough classes knows… and as both Steve Fisher & Mike Glover always say, “two hands on the gun is always better than one hand on the gun.” If you think you can shoot as fast with as much accuracy as two hands on the gun vs one handed with a handheld light in your other hand… guess again and I urge you to try a lowlight competition course with handheld vs WML. Let alone, you’re banking on being able to draw BOTH your gun AND your handheld in the moment of need. I’ve done 5 lowlight classes and never have I ever said “man I wish I didn’t have my wml for x reason”. No, IMO, ESPECIALLY for civilians, two hands on the gun is infinitely better and more reliable, and one handed manipulation of a light is also IMO infinitely better than two handed draw of light & gun. 2x the mental processes for drawing vs 1. PID is the most important reason for a light… other than that looking at it from an objective pt of view, I just don’t see how drawing two items is better than 1 #OODAloop. I always carry BOTH a WML and handheld Modlite OKW and PL350+ PLHV2. But IMO, CCW with a WML, even a small flush fit TLR7, is still better. Don’t think you’re a moron… just think I’d rather take my chances drawing one item vs two. I may not have that second hand capable to hold said light…
You’ll never need a wml when concealed.
I've taken two low light courses and they both taught me how unnecessary a weapon mounted light really is to the average civilian. A handheld light will probably be used a thousand times before a weapon mounted light will be.
Meanwhile, Steve Fisher frequently carried without a WML. 🤔
Nerd.
Agreed. I've never thought to myself, "I wish I didn't have a light" in classes or otherwise. All pros and no cons to having a quality light on your gun. Like the video and others have said I believe you need a quality handheld as well. Have a blessed day everyone and train on.
I'll keep both. But I will never give up my WML regardless. But to each their own and train how you carry. Thanks for sharing.
I’m just here for the comments.
This should be as good as a 10mm is best discussion.
Me to.
You must be watching during the day.
You just earned yourself a new subscriber, buddy. I like the take on WMLs! Im still figuring it all out. I Have a pistol with a WML it is more of a home defense set-up, but my everyday carry does Not have one. And I don't think it ever will.. thanks for the good content. And just kidding, I've been subscribed for a while . I am looking forward to new content.
Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment.
and? what happens if u go out at night? and u dont have wml on ur light, and realistically u need to use ur other hand to use the phone to call for help? drop ur hand held? lots of people forget about that common sense detail. they have never been in a real life situation so they wouldnt know, but realistically, ur not gonna be getting into a long fire fight like call of duty and using ur hand held, ur going ot need that other hand free to call for help on ur phone. so now u have another option to turn on ur wml. what's the con for having extra lights? esepecially on ur weapon except for a lil more weight?
Appreciate the context & reasoning why you don't rock a wml, my edc (19x) just has a dot (Horosun) & no light currently (carry one handheld). I've been considering adding a wml for a while now but for edc, you & Phil made quality points & I'm going to stick w/ no wml on my edc pistol & continue to train w/ a handheld light 🤙
I’m a night shift patrol officer in a city of >120k. I’m an FTO and police firearms instructor as well. I’ve come to the same conclusion. I work in darkness a lot, and even though I have a WML on my duty pistol, I use a handheld light far more frequently, even in many cases when my handgun is out of the holster. WMLs are limited in practicality to situations where it would be justifiable to point a firearm at someone. That pretty much limits their practicality to searches. I stress to my trainees and partners the need to be proficient shooting with a handheld as well as transitioning quickly from a handheld to the handgun/wml combo when time permits. I’m not against carrying a WML on an EDC gun, but some folks speak as if it’s a requirement when they probably haven’t trained with them enough to understand their parameters of usefulness.
Spot on, I love carrying a handheld light. A potential threat needs to be identified but in most cases, won't need a gun pointed at it....because it isnt actually a threat
Noone has mentioned how a wml that extends past the muzzle can act as a stand off device to prevent the weapon from going out of battery in a close encounter.
100% agree. I came to this right after the launch of the X300 in a Surefire class many years ago. While i do have WMLs on some setups, they are for different roles, not normal CC. Gear fits the mission. And honestly we all need more training than anything.
I really like a modified Harries technique for handheld light use while shooting. Think Harries but with a cigar-hold on the light instead of a full grip. This makes the light point forward so you don't have to blade off and change your whole stance. Works great with SF "combatlight" models which are designed to be gripped between your fingers, but works fine with normal handhelds too.
I don’t know much about this which is why I’m watching this, but how would you reload in a right situation if you have both hands busy?
At the academy this was basically rule number one why we didn't have WML (now this was 10 years ago) but you're way more likely to use your flashlight than waving your gun around to see what you're doing. Nothing like a bump in the night with a trigger happy first timer and blasting a non threat because your flashlight was attached to your gun.
As a civilian, I have never owned or wanted to put a WML on any of my edc pistols. If I was a LEO or active Military police then I see a reason to have one. Again, this is my personal opinion for me and me only.
make sure ud ont go out at night then. because uve made a grave mistake, especially when u need to use ur other hand thats holding a flash that to use the phone to call for help.
Agreed.
A WML is meant for searching/clearing and perhaps useful for home defense when the power is out. Personal defense situations don't require a light. These events occur at very close range. You'll see your adversary, even in low light, and yes, even in darkened theaters.
The wannabe commandos don't want to hear this.
Most people agreeing or disagreeing are doing so based on their current way.
Imagine having to choose should i take a shot one handed or two
When I was at the state patrol academy we never used pistol mounted lights. We carried a separate hand held light. For me a good option we be to carry an Olight Baldr pro R in your pocket and if for some reason you need to mount it to your pistol it has a quick attachment
Are there any ccw encounters with someone using their WML?
Hahaha that’s a great question and I know the answer is almost none. LEO and Mil is a different story.
I've only seen one, and the dude activated it in great time. I recall he was being carjacked as he was returning to his vehicle. I can't necessarily say he really needed it as the fight happened within kissing distance and while it was night time, it was lit well enough that a CCTV caught the whole thing. I think it was in Brazil but I don't remember off the top of my head.
@@wisemencompanyIf that’s a “reason” for not having a WML, than you should also not carry a gun at all. Because the odds of needing a gun is statistically extremely low.
Same goes for night vision.
@@darklyripley6138that’s not the reason and it’s not stated as a reason in the video.
I agree that training is paramount. Your equipment is a liability without it. I personally carry and train with both. I have the WML for two main reasons. My pistol is also my bedside weapon and I’m not taking off a light and changing holster every time I head out the door. Second is because a WML adds capability. If the capability isn’t worth the cost/weight/bulk that is your choice and I respect that.
I agree with you perfectly. Never thought about it this deep until this video. But i already ordered a holster with light option.
Like you say for civilian carry i can actually see your point and agree with you.
In the home or when traveling i belive in having a WML
Although i will say i am probably still going to get a WML for every pistol i have. but i will get two holsters for each pistol i have, one with a light and one without light. Then just determine what i am doing for the day to determine the setup i use.
I love having a WMl so when I check the mail at the night I can pull my gun from my holster and see what I'm doing.
I use my wml finding the toilet for a 1am piss
Let me be quick to slam these keys on my keyboard............you ready......here we go............excellent video sir. Thank you for this honest perspective. Keeping it real.
What about a mounted light on your head or shoulder or something?
Out of curiosity what pocket position do you carry your handheld light
This past year I went away from WML on my CC. I got caught up in the internet warriors/influencers saying “you need a WML”. In my older years I’m going for comfort. I’m not out at the time a WML would be considered by some, anyways. I do carry a pocket flashlight, too. I have many stream lights, they are affordable, great alternatives to the much higher priced ones. If I lose one I won’t cry too much if I have to order another.
I don’t use a WML when I carry for two reasons. First, I carry a Walther PDP Full Size 5 inch barrel pistol on me everyday. I personally like to carry the biggest gun I possibly can while keeping it concealed with little to no printing. So I have to keep my holster as minimal as I can. An appendix holster for that gun with a spot for a WML would be just a bit bulkier than I want. Second, I’m old! By the time the sun goes down, my old a$$ is already in the house for the night. 😂 That said, I do put a light on my gun at night for home protection.
Eh, I get it. Certainly always have a handheld. I carry a WML and a handheld. The bulk doesn't bother me. Don't really notice much of a difference.
For me, tlr 1 and like a sure fire x300 make a 19x/shadow mr920L very uncomfortable for carry and if it’s uncomfortable I don’t like to carry it as much. A tlr7a would work and I might get one in the future but for now I don’t wanna change holsters and a flashlight works for what I need rn. I’m with ya
Well reasoned and I agree with you.
Personally, WML is for owb and home defense. Pocket light and concealed pistol in public/ ccw. How is it there at JTAC? I am assuming the one outside Tampa? It is literally 15 minutes away from me.
Good stuff, Ben. Thanks for sharing
Recently switched to carrying without a wml since i ALWAYS carry my streamlight hlx with a thrym switchback
I actually came to the exact same conclusion. I have carried 6 years and I started looking at weapon mounted lights and even tried carrying it. The issue I had was....if the light is on the handgun, then it's ONLY usable when you draw. Once you draw, especially in California you BETTER have a good reason. So I chose a surefire flashlight for carry because I can draw a flashlight anytime and not be charged with a crime, it offers me alot of utility, and the flashlight by itself IS its own weapon. So the versatility I get from a separate flashlight exceeds anything I would get from a weapon mounted light.
Now if I was using a handgun offensively for work.....then I would definitely have one on my handgun.
But a CCW weapon is defensive and shouldn't be coming out for any other reason than to be used
Just my 2 cents
WML allows you to drop your handheld as you draw and still have a light on the guy and shoot two handed. Also it allows you to see during and after the shooting if the threat still exsists or not, again while having both hands on the gun. Both hands on the gun means you will be more accurate, shoot faster while maintaining acceptable accuracy, and have better retention from a grab attempt. Also it is MUCH more likely you will be in a situation where you can see with your unaided eye that a person is a threat while the light is still low enough that blasting them in the face with your WML as you come on target and fire will give you an advantage than it is that you will be in such a dark area that you can't ID the threat without a flashlight. In that situation, the most likely one for a civilian to encounter, without a WML you will simply lose that advantage as drawing a light and your gun at the same time is unrealistic. And with lights like the TLR-7'X that are relatively affordable and add so little weight and bulk to a gun the size of a Glock 19 and bigger, there is no reason not to have that advantage if that's the size of gun you carry.
Being in a situation while out and about that is pitch black and being aware of a threat with enough time to do any of that is unrealistic. There is usually a threat or there isn’t, and you only find out after the threat starts it’s attack. There are very few places that lack any light. At home is the only scenario I can think of that anyone would be stalking around with a light investigating a possible threat. Even then there is no reason to leave adefensive position of strength to go fumble around in the dark in an offensive move. If you have that kind of time… getting your family to a secure position then post up behind cover and defend from a position of advantage is a much better plan than walking out into the open unknown outside of hard cover.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for your insight.
I carry both. Surefire Stiletto Pro handheld and TLR7A on the pistol.
The big reason is the holster indexes on the light keeping the gun from getting excessive wear.
Gives me the best of both worlds.
Having a TLR7A on your pistol doesn’t add much bulk and gives you a redundancy in case your handheld battery dies, or you need your hand free, or your handheld gets knocked out of your hand in a fight.
Agreed, thanks for the great info.
Great video. I think a lot of the drama over the topic comes from a lack of precision on use-case when discussing WMLs. For home-defense and LEO/overt applications, they are an absolute must. However, CCW has a lot more dimensional constraints and, as pointed out very well in the video, their use and necessity is much more limited.
One case where I do like to have a flashlight on my CCW is for out-of-town/state travel. In those cases, I like my CCW to double up as my "hotel-defense" gun. I generally want to avoid traveling with a gun not secured on my person or where I'm sleeping, and I want WML capability at my "home-away-from-home" as much as I do at home.
Of course, just bringing a WML and attaching it before going to bed is an option, but I'd prefer to minimize the administrative gun handling, especially off my property or the range.
I dont disagree with either of you in the video, however I prefer to have an x300. It sounds weird but it makes carrying easier(if you want to know ill explain, just ask) and I've never been bummed to have a light on my gun while training, and lastly I really only use my one glock 19 for everything so keeping it the same is nice mentally. Agree with you about more training, so ill go get some extra dry fire reps tonight.
Thanks for the quality content and have a blessed day.
How well does an x300 carry? I have a flush tlr7 and seems like anything longer would be bothersome
@@jessegaluk I thought a flush light would be better too, but I found the weight of my g19 and a spare 17 round mag in appendix carry would lean outward because it's top heavy. I'm short it actually pushed into me harder and would bruise me, with the x300 it helps add length and it balances nicer after a full day.
Phil really drove your point home. Great video
I'm just a dude, I carried a WML plus a hand light.
I switched a few years back, based on studies and events. I carry my glock, strong side/IWB and hand light. No red dot.
You want overwhelm the photo luminescence barrier of your attacker and PID your opponent.
I carried a hand held flashlight long before I attached a weapon mounted light to my pistol, I still carry a flashlight because I don't always have the pistol on me.
takeaway from this video: carry both if you choose to. "one is none, two is one".
I don't understand not having both.
Great points, I'm going to start doing a little more training like this, but the one handed grip is the negative to this IMO.
11:35 how about thi, physical input onto your gun will cause you to snap a shot in the wrong direction from where versions tempting to hit, that’s why I stoped using a wml 4 years ago. I realize how much accountability is that play and hitting steal this close is not productive for this.
Carry whatever you want. I usually carry a WML but i ALWAYS have my EDC handheld light. The WML is a “nice to have” while the handheld is a “must have” for me. Even if I’m traveling and can’t carry a gun, I’m never without my handheld EDC light. If you can only carry one, definitely go handheld. And definitely train with both.
I have a Surefire X300 on my CCW because of the PHLster Floodlight. It's the best concealment holster I've ever used and you can't use it without the light. If I ever get convinced that WMLs are a bad thing, I'll just take the batteries out of the X300 and put it back on my pistol so that I can keep using that holster.
I got a shine job on my eyeballs like Riddick so now I can see in the dark but I’m pretty much completely blind during the day. I use a weapon mounted light but I put sunglasses over it.
I've watched a lot of ASP videos, and I can't remember ANY where civilians had time to use a WML.
That's because it doesn't happen.
I like having both hands on the gun and be able to have a light at the same time so I’m going to run a wml.
In addition to that I like to have an edc light for the moments where you want a lot of light but don’t want to draw a gun, but if I’m not wearing clothes where having all of that is comfortable I’m fine with omitting the edc light.
A phone light covers 98% of what I’d use a flashlight for. Edc light is another 1.9% and wml is .1% but a very important .1%.
No hate on edc light only or wml only, but that’s what I like. I will hate a bit on no light though, I think you should have something.
What about a smaller light box a 300?
I have been carrying a handheld light longer than I have been carrying a pistol. Many more uses for a flashlight in your pocket than one mounted on a gun. Done a bunch of low light training and there are definitely ways to use a handheld light effectively with a firearm
What about a laser?.
Need both , so limited with just a hand held
Up where I’m at I carry a surefire tactician and G19.5 with a TLR1 during the winter because it’s dark for 16-17 hours a day. In the summer when it’s daylight for 16-17 hours I’ll carry my gen 2 G19 with the tactician.
I never feel that I’m lacking if I’m not carrying a WML but what’s funny to me is the extra length it provides helps me conceal a g17 a bit better. I agree with your conclusions and think that it’s all preference. Your situational awareness and training matter more than anything.
I know when my life or family is in danger, I want to protect it onehanded.
Is it me or the intro music sounds like the music from bloodsport???
Great points. I have a wml and a handheld, but the handheld is more important to me.
I totally agree with you I use my EDC pocket flashlight more than anything. I only have weapons lights on home defense rifles and handguns.
Interesting conversation, loved that you were able to lay out your thoughts/reasons clearly and concisely. The whole handheld or WML arguement is silly to me, because as you said there's no way a WML can replace a handheld for utility tasks. For me the question has always been if I want to a WML to go along with my handheld, or just carry a handheld and no WML. To me, a TLR7 adds so little bulk to a carry sized gun (like a Glock 19 or 43x) that I have no reason to not carry one. Plus, if I have to use my CCW in a low light situation, I'd like to be able to use my normal 2 handed grip to tilt the odds in my favor as much as possible.
But if you can only carry one, the obvious answer is to carry a quality handheld. I never leave my house without my Surefire Stiletto Pro and wind up using it for something just about every day.
Thanks for your feedback.
The first department I worked for we didn't have weapon lights so my preferred shooting method was holding my handheld next to my head like you do. A lieutenant from the regional swat team told me that someone was going to aim for the light and shoot me in the head. Since he was swat he had lights on his pistol and rifle so I told him he needed to take those lights off. He had some reasoning why that was okay but I was done with him at that point and didn't listen
Intro track?
I do both. Good video
No wml on edc for me. But my home defense gun has one. I may inadvertently point a loaded weapon at someone that I don't mean to. I used to be a bail bondsmen and had to search dark places. I preferred a hand held.
Using a wml as an edc flashlight sounds like a personal problem. No one will ever convince me I shouldn't have both options of edc light and wml. Two is one, one is none. Can think of so many different scenarios you may not be able to use both hands or lose your light etc
This could've been a 2 minute video. You need to stay on track man. I couldn't even finish this and find out your reason 😂
Talks too Much about himself!
100% Agree. Great video. WMLs have their place but are more of a "trend" than a necessary "must" for edc.
I disagree it offers faster follow up shots and better accuracy as you have the ability to use your support hand, Notice he is shooting close range with one hand get that out to 25-50+ yards good luck with that you may have to fire at a target past 50+yards to defend yourself especially in a parking lot or something
i have neither a handheld, nor a wml. i wear a headlamp as part of my edc.
It’s wise to have both, I carry a weapon mounted light and I also carry a SureFire Stilleto Pro.
I've been carrying every day for well over a decade and I don't carry with a WML either. That being said never leave home without a very bright flashlight in my pocket, which I use on a daily basis. I don't like the added weight and extra bulk that comes with a WML. I don't plan on room clearing or looking for threats with my CCW. It's a get-home tool, not a seek-and-destroy.
I've considered this application, but there are just too many scenarios where you will need your support hand free or it will be busy with something else. I carry a WML and a free flashlight. train accordingly
Dont care of your opinion, thank you for my cervix of a comment
Carrying both would be ideal but if you only have to carry one then handheld seems to be the only way. Carrying a WML with no handheld just doesn’t make sense to me. How are you going to PID before drawing your WML lol
I don't carry with wml but my bedside has a wml.
Solid post up my friend. And I agree 100% with the group think echo chamber mindset that tends to play out in decision making in the gun community.
"Bad info. Everyone knows, two hands on a gun is better at delivering follow-up shots and speed. And nowadays, the bad guys don't work alone. I highly doubt you can tell the other guy to wait his turn. So, carrying two lights is the better option: a WML and a pocket light. And train with both. It's easy to shoot one-handed at something that's not shooting back."
Why does RUclips always unsubscribe me from this channel?
I don't edc a WML either. I have Streamlights in my vehicles and packs and if I feel a need I would carry with one.
I don't see the point on having to choose. Just carry both WML and handheld and train with both for different scenarios 🤦🏽♂️
Finally someone talks about the elephant in the room. I have asked this question for the last 15 years, watching folks trying to carry full-size tactical hand gun setups in low vis carry or concealed carry options. My first question was always what hours of the day do you operate in the most, the overwhelming response was daylight hours say 7am to 7pm. Then I would ask why do you carry a weapon mounted light during the day. The answer was Monkey see Monkey Do becuase all the internet cowboys do. 😂😂😂😂😂
100% accurate 👆