Dr S VS EAG - Ferrari Gated Manual Conversions Showdown
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- If you're interested in having us convert your F430 or 360, check out more information on our website here: ngsc.me/f430co...
As far as I'm aware, we're the only people that have done a Ferrari F430 manual conversion using both the EAG conversion kit, and the Dr C (Cambio Manuale) kit. So let's discuss the differences and which one is the kit for you.
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#ferrari #manual #savethemanuals
i LOVE the clickity clack noise!!
Hell yes
Great service you're providing !!! It's a considerable savings !!! Congratulations
Thank you
Great summary/comparison.
Also, interesting that the mapping was noticeably different and not enough to warrant the additional 10k.
Good stuff!
Thanks
Driving something like that in Memphis, TN will get you car jacked.
That's unfortunate
Great video and comparison Dan. I think it's a no-brainer that the Dr S kit is the way to go.
I agree
In California, every other year we have to get a Smog Check at renewal time. This consists of two parts: a visual inspection for the presence of OE emissions equipment (smog pump, cats, etc.) and an OBD hookup to the state's central computer. They recently added a ban on any modifications to ECU coding, and the OBD hookup now includes a routine to check for such mods. The code guy that EAG uses, and other sources, have informed me that the EAG guy's codes include lines which mask the presence of the ECU mods. It's critically important to California customers to be able to pass Smog Check. So what does Dr. S say about its module? Does it include the ability to prevent the detection of its ECU modifications?
The last time I asked this question in the NGS comments another subscriber sneered at the issue with a "Who cares?" comment. It is the case that the feds allow the other 49 states to adopt California emissions regulations, and thus far 19 states have done so. I don't know how many of them have included a biennial Smog Check, or if they include the ban on ECU mods. However, it is only a matter of time until they do. So it's not just California residents who have an interest in this issue.
That’s extremely lame.
@@davidvianu2353 Can you give some examples of how to get around Cal Smog Check?
Through several Smog Check cycles I was using one of those handheld tuners on the LS1 in my '04 Pontiac GTO. Prior to going in for Smog Check, I had to restore the factory settings. Not a big deal. But these tuners only modify the fuel and timing maps. The factory F1 ECU controls the drive-by-wire throttle as well as the clutch and the shifter forks. With the F1 hydraulics removed I expect the car would be undriveable if you simply unplug the Dr. S module.
FWIW I've heard of people doing the Dr. S kit but having 360Trev do their ECU tuning instead. No reason you couldn't mix and match in that case although it would probably cost an extra $2k.
I honestly don't know, but you can disable the programming easily so maybe you could disable it while getting smog checked?
@@normalguysupercarsounds like dieselgate.
Congrats. The Dr.S kit looks impressive to me, not to mention the more friendly DIY.
Yes indeed
Great result. And that exhaust... Is no brand but dammmm it sounds so good...
Yeah it really sounds great. It's not a F1 sound, but I still really like it.
@@normalguysupercar
Could that exhaust be the AP exhaust? Reminds me of it in the sound.
So very tempting. After doing a header install this spring I'm teetering between if this is something I should do myself or something I should have done for me. Ether way I'm at least a year out minimum from doing a conversion because of some very happy but very expensive family news I recently got from my wife (if you catch my drift), but hopefully in that time you guys will have a chance to do a 360 and a video that highlights the difference on doing the conversion on a 360 and 430. As far as I know the differences are pretty minimal but would be.
* No dash cutting
* No E-diff delete
* Probably would still need to pull the ECUs to flash them
* Have to remove the whole damn bumper instead of just a defuser to access the gearbox.
But I'm sure there are still a couple things I'm completely unaware of.
There's more work depending how it's done
Awesome video!!!❤
Thank you!!
Better product. Half the price. Trusted installer available. Easy choice.
We agree!
There's really nothing like a convertible, stick shift sports car on a nice day. I don't have the means for a Ferrari, but I enjoy my modded C5 Vette just the same.
And your C5 is probably faster, although I’m not sure how much speed even matters. When I was young I was stationed at a base in an area that had wonderful sports car roads, and I had a Fiat 124 spider with some mods including an aftermarket exhaust system. I could literally drive out the back gate into almost empty roads in the foothills of the Sierra Nevadas. I know that I could cover those roads today much faster in even a modern day Soccer Mom minivan, but it doesn’t matter, I had a blast in that little thing.
Now in my old age I have the money to buy that car Dan is driving but I live in a megalopolis where I’m an hour drive through heavy traffic to anything like a sports car road, so now I would have nowhere to drive it 😢.
Yeah enjoying a nice drive on a beautiful day is one of life's great pleasures
I also heard that the Cambio Manuale (Dr S) kit feels more like the actual Ferrari OEM 6 speed; including the clanks for the gear change (which they said that EAG didn’t have)?
EAG does clank but not as prominently.
A very fair comparison...
Thank you
How about Josh? Haven’t seen Josh (Ferrari mechanic guy) in a while! He seems pretty cool to hang out with!
I know where is the quacking mother trucker, with his rubber hose....see what he thinks of the kit 🤣🤣
He's been busy
Nice hand shaker!
Thank you! Cheers!
This conversion seems like a really (comparatively speaking) straight forward installation. But I do think it is a mistake to change the name of the company at this time. It is especially true for a young company that is starting to grow. Changing the name to a foreign name that is hard to understand when spoken, and I suspect hard to remember by most people, and pronounce, can really slow down the momentum of a new company starting out. But that's a story for another day... Good Luck!
Well, considering it's for a Ferrari and the name change is Italian I don't know that's a bad thing
As always, great video. Been watching the channel grow and progress. As for the install price, maybe this is me and a sign I'm to cheap for a Ferrari, but $12k seems (aka I have no idea about this market, but I'm going to play internet expert, lol) high for a stick shift install. Especially, since it's a prebuilt setup, not a custom one off. Either way, if all works out, I hope to be in a position to pickup a 430 next year and I'm glad you all are around. I don't think I would even try to buy one other wise.
Well people are welcome to find a cheaper install elsewhere if they can.
Easiest way that I dealt with sticker shock of Ferrari service…add a 0 to normal prices and that will get you the price for a Ferrari 😁
@@308FCAR lol, good advice. I guess I'll have to adopt the Mandalorian saying, "this is the way".
Nice job Dan...
Thank you
The 599 is really a great buy to turn into a manual because the prices have remained pretty low..
Yeah
Good info
Thanks
I guess I have to buy a 430 now so I can buy this conversion 😂
That's pretty much what I thought too. Before this I was thinking Porsche Cayman GTS 4.0 with a stick. This far more exciting and the biggest maintenance risk is removed.
I'm not gonna stop you. Lol
Buy the conversion kit first and that will justify getting the 430….😊
great video !
i just like F-1 trans i would not want a slower car ! and deleting the e diff has some serious implications it is safer w/ it no debate .
the E diff was derived fr F-1 tech and is a serious performance AND safety feature !
i am aghast at the scud Swiss e diff delete is sold trading on the reputation of his other fine products and sadly foolish people buy it and fit it .
It is popular . the rationale that you should use it as the e-diff might wear out is nuts ! we should delete all the other things that might wear out ?
I speak out against it often in forums .
PS I sure wish your camera could have been a bit higher to see the roads!
I disagree... But that's my opinion.
disagree w/ what ? @@normalguysupercar
Just to clarify, the electronic part of the differential only makes a difference at the track? Is it to do with the manetino (spell) switch on the steering wheel? I don't anyone has ever explained the E-diff relationship to the rest of the car to me.
The e-diff is computer controlled and can be adjusted by the manetino switch. In CST off the e-diff is disabled. It's basically a limited slip differential that when additional hydraulic pressure is fed it can adjust when and how much it's slipping.
@@normalguysupercar oOOoh, so in a sense concerning only settings to the differential, 1 or both kits makes that part of the car always in CST mode?
@@Dav1d_Fi5h in a way, yes.
@@normalguysupercar that might explain why it feels faster!
Good edit
Thanks
Dan. Great video. Who’s red 430 coupe is that in the end of this video? Is it for sale?
It's ours. It's for sale but we plan to convert it.
MANUAL...That's what I'm talking about!
Yes indeed
Factory manual cars have an ediff, right? What is the complexity with switching the parts to those that the manual cars came with to keep the ediff in a “factory” way?
You can keep the e-diff in a conversion if desired. But then you have to have the F1 pump still operational
@@normalguysupercar are you saying that the factory manual cars also have a hydraulic pump just for the e-diff?
@@benclarke6177 yes
Great video, does the price of the swap on your website include the kit itself? Or is that additional cost on the customer?
All in.
So when is a 458 Manual conversion coming, would be very interesting to see that (although that would need a whole transmission) ?
It's not. It requires a totally different transmission
Great video, Dan!
Is the Dr S programming work with the EAG conversion?
Thanks!
Not exactly, they have different wiring setups. But theoretically yes if you did the wiring properly.
Thanks, Dan!
Are the gear ratios setup the same for the F1 and manual transmission? What about a Scuderia? Just wonder where the engine's "happy place" is, rpm-wise
Yes same gearing. The Scud technically has a slightly different transmission
4 hundred and 50 mother trucking pages........F that! 😂 Also when did you hire the Borrowers to film inside the car? 👀😂
Yeah
In regards to the E-Diff delete, have you spun a rear wheel with the car in the air to confirm that is it not now an open differential?
Yes.
Being an older model…..i assume your car has no factory warranty……how do you deal with repairs and issues? Out of pocket? Maybe a dumb question…..
Yes out of pocket.
Not sure I agree with you on the reversible being completely irrelevant.
This is cool enough so that I'm seriously contemplating buying a 16M and doing it. With a car like the 16M, I will say that it being reversible is relevant. A 16M will not hold the same value as a converted car, I'm willing to put anything on that.
I would not convert the 16m.
Does the traction control work after the conersion?
Yes!
Change as many F1s as is HUMANLY possible.
That's our goal
can we wring the piss out of every gear?!?! 😂🎉
Yes
I don't like the engine programming of EAG. Simply watching the videos you can notice the revs hanging too long between shift which will be a problem when trying to shift quick when you on it. And if you want a smooth shift at low revs then lets face it you can learn to do it yourself with throttle and clutch control.
Well don't get their programming then. 😁
Did you get upset that eag flew up to help dde dave do his conversion? This bad blood all seems to line up to that event.
No that had nothing to do with stuff that had its Genesis 2 years ago.
CAN Network Spoofing, Running ECU's in F1 still, E-diff Delete and an all in price of $35,000 with a clutch? Someone is going to Ping an Engine... No Thank you...
Ok
If the 430 Scuds F1 trans programming is so much better, why aren't more people reprogramming their F430 trans to mimic the Scuds?
You can't get it fully without changing the entire transmission
Will you eventually convert to murcielago?
Probably not
Are you able to do a conversion on a California?
No
California's manual was a 6speed and its automatic variant was a 7speee dual clutch. Would require an entire swap.
Stock exhaust on that 430?
No it's aftermarket
And EAG is closed... hm...
Yes
No brainer who will sell more in terms of dollar amount n nothing spectacularly different between the 2 kits n Dr S is 10K cheaper, not hving to re-program the ECU is a plus too. I bet EAG will lower their price soon….$12K to install the kit is expensive…..Dan…
I'm not looking to make it cheap.
@@normalguysupercar let’s see how many kits you will install then
It’s kind of poor form. Eag brought you in showed you all the processes and now you’re gonna compete against them.
Uhh you really have no idea who's the one in poor form here. There's so much more that you don't know about that your statement is completely unfounded.
To James, NGS doesn’t manufacture the kits and Dan has explained many times he is no longer associated with EAG. Absent a NDA or NonCompete, NGS is free to do whatever they want. That’s business and EAG decided to go another direction that benefits their business plan, so can NGS. Not knowing details and not caring, it is what it is and that’s the free market!